Speaker 1: Ben Higgins, and Ashley. I bring you Infamous. Sometimes roses
Speaker 1: are red flags.
Speaker 2: Welcome to Infamous, because sometimes roses are red flags. Our
Speaker 2: story continues today with Clayton Eckert. You know him from
Speaker 2: Michelle Young season and from his time as the Bachelor. Clayton,
Speaker 2: Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 1: Thanks for having you, guys. This is a new little
Speaker 1: thing that you got going. Huh.
Speaker 3: It is so Clayton. We have talked to you many
Speaker 3: times about all the Fantasy Suite drama right the I
Speaker 3: slept with all of you, or I.
Speaker 1: Was into it with all of you. I love all
Speaker 1: of you.
Speaker 3: But we're going to start today the beginning of your
Speaker 3: season because there was a very well known villain on
Speaker 3: your season, Shane. She had pushed Elizabeth during an obstacle course,
Speaker 3: she called Elizabeth's ADHD diagnosis fake, and then there was
Speaker 3: shrimp Gate. But you kept Shane along for quite some time.
Speaker 3: Were you What was your opinion of her in the house?
Speaker 3: Was it true to what we saw on TV?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 4: I mean, to be honest with you, it was such
Speaker 4: a small part of my story and my experience. I
Speaker 4: didn't even know half of that stuff was going on
Speaker 4: because I was so focused on the other women in
Speaker 4: my connections with them. That Like when it first got
Speaker 4: brought up, I just said, okay, I thought it was
Speaker 4: a one off thing. And you know we all understand that. Well,
Speaker 4: each episode, it's two hours long on TV, comprises I
Speaker 4: think four days of filming at sixteen hours a day
Speaker 4: of filming, so do the math, you know.
Speaker 1: It was at sixty four hours.
Speaker 4: It made it seem the edit because again it's all
Speaker 4: people tune in for the entertainment, for the drama, so
Speaker 4: it made it seem as though that was a massive
Speaker 4: storyline and it wasn't. To me like the experience I had,
Speaker 4: it was like it was like Ohne's side comment by
Speaker 4: the way, she's SE's created some drama. So like when
Speaker 4: I watched the show, I was like, whoa, this was
Speaker 4: acting like this is the main plot line. Like I
Speaker 4: this was hardly a narrative. But you know, again, like
Speaker 4: the show is creating an entertaining TV show, All that
Speaker 4: stuff was happening. It just wasn't like the main focus,
Speaker 4: you know, But that's what the editay made it seem.
Speaker 2: It's always the big question, and I think from my standpoint,
Speaker 2: I agree with Clayton from the lead. You don't see
Speaker 2: all this stuff already know it's all happening, but it's
Speaker 2: a story that's going on, and the longer they can
Speaker 2: let it happen without you knowing it, the more content
Speaker 2: they get to show. Clayton, you've said recently to us
Speaker 2: that you have a better relationship. I don't know if
Speaker 2: you've exactly defined it as good, but a better relationship
Speaker 2: with production today, and I that's a little bit confusing
Speaker 2: to me. I think you said this before the mass
Speaker 2: layoffs that have happened. Right over two hundred people are
Speaker 2: now no longer working on the show. The whole new
Speaker 2: team is in place. Ashley and myself, we know nobody
Speaker 2: other than one of this that still works on the
Speaker 2: show from our time, and that's probably similar to your situation.
Speaker 2: So my question, I guess, is help us understand is
Speaker 2: this a good relationship with production of old or have
Speaker 2: you already spoken to the whole new team and they
Speaker 2: got your back and you guys are ready to rock
Speaker 2: and roll.
Speaker 1: No.
Speaker 4: So I was at after the final Rows recently, and
Speaker 4: I would say there was about six or eight familiar
Speaker 4: faces that came in, executive producers, handlers, just people that
Speaker 4: were a part.
Speaker 1: Of my when I was the Bachelor that were around.
Speaker 4: So I again, I didn't see how much of the
Speaker 4: rest of the team was there. I didn't get to
Speaker 4: talk to the cameramen and women. Honestly, I was kind
Speaker 4: of more so taking in all these other things. But
Speaker 4: there was enough familiar faces and they had come and
Speaker 4: checked in with me and we had good conversations. But
Speaker 4: I'm more so saying that, like I guess, yeah, more
Speaker 4: of a blanket statement. I'm more so in good graces
Speaker 4: with like the production element of or maybe and who
Speaker 4: knows how they view me, but like I'm okay with
Speaker 4: everything that happened. Because Matthew McConaughey's green Light said that
Speaker 4: book really resonated with me. I just loved his voice,
Speaker 4: for one, but I listened to his audiobook and on
Speaker 4: it he said it's not personal, it's business when referencing Hollywood,
Speaker 4: and I think that just I realized. I was like,
Speaker 4: they had to create a TV show, and you gave
Speaker 4: them a lot of stuff to put out there, so
Speaker 4: it's not like they're you know, they just did their job,
Speaker 4: which was put out an entertaining a show.
Speaker 1: So with that, I'm like it's not personal, you know,
Speaker 1: I can't. These people aren't monsters, They're just they have
Speaker 1: a job to do, and you signed up for it.
Speaker 1: You just weren't really aware of what all it was
Speaker 1: going to.
Speaker 3: Entail when you're watching the show back. Was there one
Speaker 3: time besides like before Fantasy Sweet Drama where you were like,
Speaker 3: holy crap, like that surprised me, like I can't believe
Speaker 3: that happened, or that is not the way that happened.
Speaker 4: Uh, yeah, I would say, I'm trying to think what
Speaker 4: came up.
Speaker 1: My one thought was there was there was.
Speaker 4: There was a point where we had like a psychotherapy
Speaker 4: date or and uh at the end of it, the
Speaker 4: psychotherapist was like, hey, I had a great time getting
Speaker 4: to know you all today, but there's someone here that's
Speaker 4: not here for the right reasons or they d something
Speaker 4: along those lines.
Speaker 1: And she says that, and then they turned.
Speaker 4: She turns to me, and I just look at her
Speaker 4: and I go all right, well, I'm not really sure
Speaker 4: what that's about, but let's just go ahead and go
Speaker 4: to the after party or whatever. And then the show
Speaker 4: was like hold on, stop, Clayton, that's it, And I
Speaker 4: was like, I'm not really gonna put much weight into that. Guys, like,
Speaker 4: I'm not really too concerned about it. I don't I
Speaker 4: don't agree with what her assessment. They're like, no, you
Speaker 4: gotta like there's something amiss. I was like, no, like,
Speaker 4: and so it was just like that's what I came
Speaker 4: up when you asked me that question. Was like it
Speaker 4: was like, I'm like, they're like, no, you have to be,
Speaker 4: you know, more bothered by this than you are. And
Speaker 4: there was multiple times, I guess throughout the experience where
Speaker 4: I was like, Guys, I also understand that I want
Speaker 4: to show and like people may be playing up some
Speaker 4: drama and like, I just can't fake this. I'm not
Speaker 4: an actor, so whatever, like this seems petty. So I
Speaker 4: guess that would be an example of like a time
Speaker 4: where it just didn't seem like a big deal. But
Speaker 4: it led to a situation where it was Sarah that
Speaker 4: was she was telling the other girls that I was
Speaker 4: going to choose her from the very beginning, and then
Speaker 4: those girls approached me because they were like, hey, she's
Speaker 4: saying these things and I'm like, I don't believe it
Speaker 4: unless like the women tell me. And so then I
Speaker 4: had a few women that came up to me that
Speaker 4: I trusted that were like, yeah, she's been saying this
Speaker 4: all along. We almost left the house, and I was like, whoa, whoa,
Speaker 4: whoa whoa, Like y'all were about to leave, and so
Speaker 4: at that point then I was like, what's going on,
Speaker 4: Like there's all this stuff that's happening behind the scenes
Speaker 4: that like I'm not privy to, and you're telling me that.
Speaker 4: Like four of the top you know ten you know
Speaker 4: women that were in my top ten or whatever, four
Speaker 4: of them were said they were about to leave multiple
Speaker 4: times about the show.
Speaker 1: Because of what Sarah was saying, I was like, what
Speaker 1: is going on?
Speaker 4: Like why am I not being informed about this? So, yeah,
Speaker 4: it was stuff like that. There was like always I
Speaker 4: started to realize later in the show, I'm like, stuff
Speaker 4: is happening and I'm not being told, like because I
Speaker 4: guess I'm not there, so technically I shouldn't be told,
Speaker 4: but like, also, I feel like I need to know
Speaker 4: if someone's about to leave.
Speaker 2: Clayton, there's a and your season doesn't get credit for it,
Speaker 2: but I feel like there was a big storyline coming
Speaker 2: out of your season around sex that wasn't as discussed
Speaker 2: as maybe other seasons that we think of when we
Speaker 2: think of physical intimacy. There there was criticism based on
Speaker 2: how defensive you seemed, and watching it back, you did
Speaker 2: seem defensive.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: You could argue with me and say you weren't or
Speaker 2: it didn't seem like that. But from the show standpoint,
Speaker 2: it did seem like it. When Susie was talking about
Speaker 2: her boundaries, it was criticized publicly. Now watching it back
Speaker 2: and now being removed from it, were you defensive? Was
Speaker 2: that just what the show made it seem like? What
Speaker 2: was your thoughts at the time as you sat I
Speaker 2: think it was at a dinner table.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think what you saw is what
Speaker 1: you saw. That was my reaction.
Speaker 4: That was my reaction, though, four hours into a conversation,
Speaker 4: and it was in the last five minutes, you know,
Speaker 4: when I realized They're like, we gotta go, you guys,
Speaker 4: got to wrap this conversation up. And so as my
Speaker 4: back felt against the wall and everything felt like it
Speaker 4: was falling apart, and I started to question, if you know,
Speaker 4: if Susie was you had all to your motives and
Speaker 4: I started basically getting in my head. And so those
Speaker 4: final five to ten minutes. I was like, I, you know,
Speaker 4: I don't even know what I'm looking at anymore. I
Speaker 4: don't know who you are, and I didn't want to
Speaker 4: hear anything else. I was like, it's over. Like I
Speaker 4: didn't want to have that conversation on camera, but I
Speaker 4: didn't have a choice. It was like I begged for
Speaker 4: us to take the fantasy suites and then have that
Speaker 4: conversation in private, and was not able to happen. So
Speaker 4: at that point I was like, okay, So I started
Speaker 4: telling her in the best way that I could, this
Speaker 4: is what you know, what happens, And then once I
Speaker 4: said it on camera, it was like it's out there, right,
Speaker 4: you know. Now I have to go tell the other
Speaker 4: women it's it's it's that's just there's no other way about.
Speaker 4: You can sit here and say, well, he shouldn't said
Speaker 4: anything until you know the show aired. I'm like, why
Speaker 4: would I do that, you know, move forward with one
Speaker 4: of the other two women and then go, oh, hey,
Speaker 4: by the way, we're together. Now something happened too and
Speaker 4: a half weeks so that you need to know about.
Speaker 4: I'm like, no, everybody needs to be caught up with
Speaker 4: what transpired. So I felt that full transparency was the
Speaker 4: way to go. As far as like how I conducted
Speaker 4: myself in those final ten minutes, I got scrutinized. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I raised my tone. I even said, you know, hey,
Speaker 4: this is out of character for me. I'm not normally
Speaker 4: you know, I don't normally raise.
Speaker 1: My tone like this.
Speaker 4: You know, I think I got fed to the wolves.
Speaker 4: I'm like, I don't think I know people. I'm not
Speaker 4: trying to compare.
Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, it was a
Speaker 1: four hour conversation.
Speaker 4: The final ten minutes, I lost my cool bit, and
Speaker 4: you know, I take accountability for that. People didn't like
Speaker 4: the way I reacted, but that's I felt, you know
Speaker 4: that I was my back was against the wall and
Speaker 4: everything was slipping, and I was, you know, grasping at straws,
Speaker 4: and I was in a really uncomfortable spot, and so,
Speaker 4: you know, yeah, I was just trying to say or
Speaker 4: do the right thing to keep her around and she
Speaker 4: wasn't willing to And at that point I felt like
Speaker 4: I was in a bad spot. I'm like, I'm going
Speaker 4: to lose her, and then I'm going to lose these
Speaker 4: other women tomorrow when I fill them in on what happened.
Speaker 3: It was a four hour conversation. What did the other
Speaker 3: four hours look like?
Speaker 1: Sound like they were fine?
Speaker 4: I mean they were very cordial, but then things started
Speaker 4: to just go sideways where and it wasn't shown, but
Speaker 4: it's like I just wanted I did not want to
Speaker 4: have the conversation that was shown on camera. I was
Speaker 4: like begging to do it off camera, and we signed
Speaker 4: contracts saying that we are going to put everything on
Speaker 4: camera outside of Fantasy Suite, So like I wanted to,
Speaker 4: like because again it was out of respect. I also
Speaker 4: didn't feel comfortable talking about the other women and like
Speaker 4: putting it out there, putting their business out there.
Speaker 1: But I didn't have a choice.
Speaker 4: So when I was sorry to realize, like you have
Speaker 4: to have this conversation, I'm like, Okay, I have to
Speaker 4: navigate this and say the thing and every word like
Speaker 4: could potentially give up more information than I want. But
Speaker 4: she needs to know what happened, because she asked me directly,
Speaker 4: have you expressed feelings lovever been intimate with the other women?
Speaker 4: And I was like, well, that's a direct question. I
Speaker 4: chanced skirt around this. If I skirt around it, I'm
Speaker 4: gonna be lying you know, or a air biomission. Right,
Speaker 4: So I'm like, it's an indirect lie, and I was like,
Speaker 4: you're not a liar, So I was. It was us
Speaker 4: going back and forth and trying to see if we
Speaker 4: can make it work, and just like between us and yeah,
Speaker 4: I mean after it just then she wasn't willing to
Speaker 4: do the overnights and so that's where it was like, guys,
Speaker 4: wrap this up. And that's where I was like, all right,
Speaker 4: here's the final ten minutes. And that was what was shown.
Speaker 2: It felt like watching it, and this infamous series is
Speaker 2: a lot about what's the secrets of behind the scenes,
Speaker 2: kind of pulling back the layer and getting to the
Speaker 2: real part. It felt like watching your season. It was
Speaker 2: shocking to me that production was able to keep you around.
Speaker 2: I say that because it did feel like everything was
Speaker 2: going okay, and then these last week two weeks like
Speaker 2: it it felt like every place you turned, and I'll
Speaker 2: just be honest, you couldn't make a good decision and
Speaker 2: it was like you were gonna get pounded from every
Speaker 2: side and there was no right like you were kind
Speaker 2: of saying decision you could make, including a comment Rachel
Speaker 2: made which is a big accusation. It's a big question.
Speaker 2: So I want you to answer kind of respond to
Speaker 2: this statement that she made. But then also if you
Speaker 2: can tie it into how is production encouraging you to
Speaker 2: even stick around after this kind of thing? As being
Speaker 2: said she said that you kept her around or you
Speaker 2: told her that you were in love with her because
Speaker 2: you wanted to sleep with her. That is a big accusation,
Speaker 2: one of the biggest I think, and again talked about
Speaker 2: enough on the show that the show's ever had. So
Speaker 2: how did production keep you around? And what was your
Speaker 2: thoughts when this was being said to you, knowing it
Speaker 2: was going to be aired at some point on national television.
Speaker 4: Well, she said that at the live show, I guess so,
Speaker 4: and I was prepped with a You're going to have
Speaker 4: at most fifteen seconds to respond. So when that was
Speaker 4: said to me, I said, no, like, there's literally I
Speaker 4: can't go into detail.
Speaker 1: This is a live show. I have to just deny
Speaker 1: this because.
Speaker 4: It wasn't anyways, But I understand that she was hurt
Speaker 4: and and her and I've talked since then, We've made amend,
Speaker 4: So you know, I'm I'm not going to falter for
Speaker 4: what she said, but I was basically told you of
Speaker 4: fifteen seconds for whatever she says. And so when she
Speaker 4: said that, my brain was like computing and I'm like,
Speaker 4: there's literally nothing else you can say in this timeframe
Speaker 4: other than no, that's not true. So I said that
Speaker 4: and that was it, and you know, it was it
Speaker 4: was very you know, it sucked because then everyone online,
Speaker 4: you know, and this is still the narrative I see
Speaker 4: as like Clayton just said what he needed to say
Speaker 4: to sleep with these women, and that was so false,
Speaker 4: like I didn't have to sleep with any of those women.
Speaker 1: And also like, listen, I've never claimed to be a saint.
Speaker 4: You know, I have a past, and I would just
Speaker 4: say like I've never you know, it's not like I
Speaker 4: was desperate to finally be intimate with a woman like
Speaker 4: I'd never been before. So you know, that was like
Speaker 4: the narrative that got spun was like Clayton saying whatever
Speaker 4: you needs to say to get these women in bed,
Speaker 4: and I'm like, that's ridiculous, Like that's stupid. I just
Speaker 4: if I was going to actually get engaged at the
Speaker 4: end of the show, which I opened my mind up to,
Speaker 4: I said, yeah, I'll do it.
Speaker 1: But if I'm going to get engaged, I need to
Speaker 1: make sure that we're sexually compatible.
Speaker 4: That's just that's just if we were going to walk
Speaker 4: out here being boyfriend girlfriend like, then yeah, I don't
Speaker 4: need to be intimate. But if I'm actually gonna propose,
Speaker 4: and this is serious to me, I don't care TV
Speaker 4: or not, like if I'm going to need to propose
Speaker 4: with a ring, this is serious.
Speaker 1: So I need to make sure there's sexual compatibility.
Speaker 4: So second I made that decision that I was ready
Speaker 4: to get down on one knee. That's where I was like, Okay, hey,
Speaker 4: I'm going to go explore these relationships fully. And each
Speaker 4: of the women said that to me forbadihim, I want
Speaker 4: you to explore the relationships fully as I walked into overnights.
Speaker 4: That was said by every all three of those women
Speaker 4: going into that next weekend. So I was like, okay, well,
Speaker 4: you're telling me to explore the relationships fully as I
Speaker 4: walk into overnights, I feel like we're you're without saying it,
Speaker 4: You're telling me what you're okay with. That's the assumption
Speaker 4: I made, and I don't know then, based on their responses,
Speaker 4: I guess it wasn't.
Speaker 1: You know, I took it the wrong way.
Speaker 4: But if you tell a man man that, I think
Speaker 4: he perceives it a bit differently than a woman potentially,
Speaker 4: or at least I did.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is tough stuff, Ben, What is your take?
Speaker 2: I mean, I think, well, one, I want to comment
Speaker 2: on the fifteen seconds to respond that is a just
Speaker 2: a spot on scenario that happens on this show.
Speaker 1: Like it just does. Like, Hey, we're going to put
Speaker 1: you on the live show.
Speaker 2: Just want to let you know, like this is going
Speaker 2: to get kind of ugly for a bit and you're
Speaker 2: gonna have fifteen seconds to say something to like pretty
Speaker 2: much like complete the conversation. You're like, no, that's so.
Speaker 2: I just want to make note that for any listener
Speaker 2: as we talk about some of the behind the scenes
Speaker 2: here without breaking our NBA's like, that is a very
Speaker 2: common thing. It means, it's very real. It's not edited
Speaker 2: to make it look like it was only fifteen seconds.
Speaker 2: Though you have fifteen seconds to explain how much you
Speaker 2: actually cared about this person. That's the first thought.
Speaker 1: I think.
Speaker 2: My thought as the lead is as a former lead
Speaker 2: when it comes to fantasy suites and intimacy, I mean,
Speaker 2: I think Clayton. The only thing I would say was like,
Speaker 2: you should have asked for not for no other reason
Speaker 2: than mostly so that what happened at the end of
Speaker 2: your show didn't happen like clarity, Like what do you
Speaker 2: exactly mean by that? Like, Hey, this is you know,
Speaker 2: very a very like thrown up, Like I'm still kind
Speaker 2: of confused, I'm feeling things for all of you. Clarity
Speaker 2: probably wouldn't have been helpful there. And that's on you, Like,
Speaker 2: that's not a production thing, that's not an editing thing.
Speaker 2: That's on you as the lead to say, Okay, what
Speaker 2: do you think happens in this situation?
Speaker 1: Right? What are we good about.
Speaker 2: Here as a couple? Yeah, And you didn't, and that's
Speaker 2: probably where the mistake was made and why the feelings
Speaker 2: were hurt. I also think, and I goodness, gracious, we
Speaker 2: love Rachel so much on this podcast, I think you
Speaker 2: had three really big personalities at the end of your season,
Speaker 2: really strong, outspoken people women, and I think they were
Speaker 2: just going to say what they felt and what they
Speaker 2: were thinking no matter what, because that's who they are
Speaker 2: as people. And I think you were the common denominating target.
Speaker 2: And I think it was a really hard situation for
Speaker 2: you to go through because you had three great people,
Speaker 2: but three big personalities that were outspoken, and that that's tough.
Speaker 2: It's tough when two of them are going to be
Speaker 2: upset with, like really upset with you.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean that's a good I mean, yes, they're
Speaker 4: very powerful personalities, each of them. Each of them are
Speaker 4: doing really well in their own ways, and some of
Speaker 4: them are you know, really blowing up in the reality
Speaker 4: TV world and some are just making you know, they're
Speaker 4: still doing really great.
Speaker 1: With brand partnerships.
Speaker 4: But yeah, they I mean you see like they're still
Speaker 4: years later, very prominent in their respective fields.
Speaker 1: So it's yeah, I mean it's a good spot on assessment.
Speaker 4: And they you know, were unapologetically themselves and so when
Speaker 4: they had the moment, they're like, I'm gonna speak my mind,
Speaker 4: and they did and they had the right to do that.
Speaker 1: So but you're spot on.
Speaker 4: You.
Speaker 1: I also accountability. I could have always asked more questions
Speaker 1: and I've learned that, So it's good. See you're learning.
Speaker 3: I think that's sometimes the producers know the lead better
Speaker 3: than sometimes the lead knows themselves. At this point, and
Speaker 3: they order the last three contestants in a certain way
Speaker 3: when it comes to fantasy Suites, too, really mess with
Speaker 3: your mind. I feel maybe just as a viewer. I'll
Speaker 3: tell me if I'm wrong that, like, inside, you knew
Speaker 3: that it was going to be Susie, and then they
Speaker 3: intentionally made it so that she would be last that
Speaker 3: week to really mess with you, all right.
Speaker 1: I can talk about this part because they did let me.
Speaker 4: I said it on a podcast like two years ago,
Speaker 4: and then I was like, you guys can cut that out,
Speaker 4: and they left it in and production it cleared it.
Speaker 1: I can say this was switched.
Speaker 4: Susie was supposed to be first, and I said I
Speaker 4: wanted to go first because I was the most in
Speaker 4: love with her, And so I said, hey, I'm pretty
Speaker 4: certain unless she hits me with something political or she
Speaker 4: says something that's like a deal breaker in.
Speaker 1: The fancy suites.
Speaker 4: And I even say, I'm not really even political, but
Speaker 4: like if she if there's something she says or does,
Speaker 4: or if we have no sexual compatibility, like then I
Speaker 4: can move forward with the other two women, you know,
Speaker 4: because it's not meant to be.
Speaker 1: But if all goes well on.
Speaker 4: The overnights, then I will, you know, basically end it
Speaker 4: right there, and so I was, yeah, most in love
Speaker 4: with her, but I had love, you know, and with
Speaker 4: the other women as well, it just wasn't as strong.
Speaker 1: At that point.
Speaker 4: I was like, I'm close to making a decision, but
Speaker 4: I guess I'm still the door is still open if
Speaker 4: things go wrong.
Speaker 1: On overnights with Susie. And they weren't. They weren't going
Speaker 1: to have that. They they said, noe, we're we're putting
Speaker 1: her third.
Speaker 4: And so they said, you've kept an open mind, so
Speaker 4: keep an open mind with these women. And I, you know,
Speaker 4: I said, well, what happens if she's not okay with
Speaker 4: like what happens in the fantas wet It's like, wow,
Speaker 4: Well they said that you stop woor relationships fully. So
Speaker 4: I was like, okay, yeah, that's true. So I was like,
Speaker 4: all right, I'll do it. I'll put her well, we'll
Speaker 4: put her third and then and that's what happens.
Speaker 2: See, this is what we've kind of talked about, is
Speaker 2: there is people will argue and we go back and
Speaker 2: forth on how much editing actually exists to make things
Speaker 2: look different than they are. I always said, the manipulation
Speaker 2: or this those that kind of like God scenario that
Speaker 2: production is looking down from a camera up above saying, no,
Speaker 2: we're going to move the pufflic puzzle piece here because
Speaker 2: we think this is how this story could play out.
Speaker 2: That happens a lot more. Uh, And I actually find
Speaker 2: it fascinating personally. I think it is Uh. It does
Speaker 2: make a is used reference good TV? Is it healthy?
Speaker 1: Is it fair?
Speaker 2: All those things we could argue and go back and
Speaker 2: forth on. However, it's the response of the people in
Speaker 2: the scenario that kind of make or break if their
Speaker 2: story is going to come out true or not, or
Speaker 2: if it's going to come out the way they want
Speaker 2: it to or not. Clayton, you went through this whole process.
Speaker 1: You lived it.
Speaker 2: We've talked about, you know, mostly with the final three
Speaker 2: kind of the scenarios that existed, also with Shane a
Speaker 2: little bit at the beginning when you.
Speaker 1: Were in it, was.
Speaker 2: There ever a moment that you thought, oh my goodness,
Speaker 2: this is going to be really bad, like I'm going
Speaker 2: to watch this back on national television and this is
Speaker 2: going to be really bad. Or were you in it
Speaker 2: and you're like, this is a beautiful love story coming
Speaker 2: true and every like people are going to love to
Speaker 2: watch it.
Speaker 1: Now it flipped when it was okay.
Speaker 4: There was drama, but it wasn't anything I felt like
Speaker 4: I couldn't recover from, or that wasn't going it was
Speaker 4: going to be overwhelming. But at the point when I
Speaker 4: after Gabby and Rachel, met my family and I made
Speaker 4: the decision to pursue Susie even though she was gone
Speaker 4: at that moment, there was a producer that was off
Speaker 4: camera and they looked at me and said, if you
Speaker 4: do this, you will not be liked by at least
Speaker 4: half the audience. You will be hated like you have
Speaker 4: like we can protect you, We've been able to protect you,
Speaker 4: but at this point, if you make this decision, we
Speaker 4: can no longer protect you. And my response for Baden was,
Speaker 4: I don't give a f what people think. I'm doing
Speaker 4: what's best for me, and my heart is telling me
Speaker 4: to follow this. And then they looked at me and said, okay,
Speaker 4: well just know that from that from here on out,
Speaker 4: like we cannot protect you. That was that, and I
Speaker 4: knew at that point it was a very tense moment.
Speaker 4: It was a and they yelled at me, and I
Speaker 4: yelled back at them, and and it was like all right,
Speaker 4: and I made.
Speaker 1: My decision, and that's when I knew.
Speaker 4: I was like, yeah, this is going to probably be bad,
Speaker 4: you know, because it was very tense and at that
Speaker 4: point there was not as much communication amongst me and
Speaker 4: the producers. It was the last you know, that was
Speaker 4: what four days left in the season. It was basically like,
Speaker 4: let's just get to the finish line. I hate you all,
Speaker 4: you don't like me, Let's.
Speaker 1: Just finish this.
Speaker 4: But then I was like, Clayton, the danger is now
Speaker 4: you have pissed them off and you're not on the
Speaker 4: same team anymore. It feels like, and now they can
Speaker 4: go edit a season, So now you're at the mercy
Speaker 4: of whatever they choose to edit and what you've put
Speaker 4: out there.
Speaker 1: But that, yeah, that moment was that's when I knew
Speaker 1: things were going to go south.
Speaker 3: Do you think that the edit could have been romantic?
Speaker 1: Well, put it this way. I mean, and this is
Speaker 1: where again I give them credit.
Speaker 4: Had Susie went first in Fantasy Sweets, let's just say
Speaker 4: I would have chosen her, the show would have been
Speaker 4: a boring ass show. Instead, what everyone got was the
Speaker 4: ending that I that was created, which was, like I
Speaker 4: would say, a very entertaining season and was very talked about.
Speaker 1: And yeah I was you know, painted as the villain
Speaker 1: and intact and all that.
Speaker 4: But it made for really interesting television and a lot
Speaker 4: of people talked about it from a from a standpoint
Speaker 4: have like show success. I know the show, you know,
Speaker 4: I was told the producers were all high five and
Speaker 4: at the after party at the end of it all
Speaker 4: like we just you know, really put together a spectacle,
Speaker 4: and they did so, you know, like they did a
Speaker 4: great job.
Speaker 1: And at my expense.
Speaker 4: It's like, yeah, I gotta take some accountability. It's like,
Speaker 4: you I walked on that show, and I was ignorant
Speaker 4: and was just like, oh, I'm just gonna be me,
Speaker 4: you know, and and I was moldible and they easily
Speaker 4: poppeted around at points because I didn't have the confidence
Speaker 4: and self love to put my foot down. So again,
Speaker 4: like I take accountability for that. Ultimately, Yeah, there could
Speaker 4: have been a happy ending. I could have been you know,
Speaker 4: I don't. I can't say I would have ever had
Speaker 4: like a golden you know, bachelor at it, Like you know,
Speaker 4: I don't. And people didn't like me from the get go.
Speaker 4: They wondered why I was chosen, but they could have
Speaker 4: absolutely had an ending where if you know, Susie went
Speaker 4: first and the fantasy sweets all went well boom, Like
Speaker 4: we could have walked out.
Speaker 1: You know, holding hands, walking off into.
Speaker 4: The sunset and everyone's like, yeah, I don't really love
Speaker 4: like them as a bacheler, but whatever, they're happy.
Speaker 1: It could have been a completely different outcome.
Speaker 3: So you mentioned that you didn't really know you from
Speaker 3: Michelle season, that you were plucked out of obscurity. Do
Speaker 3: you think that there's sometimes in their head, like I thought, oh,
Speaker 3: they can be more malleable, there can be more easily
Speaker 3: manipulated because they didn't get further along the bachelorette process
Speaker 3: because there was you, there was Grant, and there was
Speaker 3: Matt James in recent memory, who you were just kind
Speaker 3: of plucked. You had no experience and you know, so
Speaker 3: you're just a playtoy to them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think that was absolutely a part
Speaker 1: of it.
Speaker 4: And their decision making was for one, okay, he looks
Speaker 4: the part, you know, and primarily they cast a lead
Speaker 4: of that's usually white and over six foot, so I
Speaker 4: hit those markers and then it was like, oh but
Speaker 4: they I mean they psycha evowed me. I mean, they
Speaker 4: did a full psych eval, very very deep criminal background check.
Speaker 1: I mean, they knew me.
Speaker 4: Like you said, at one point earlier, better than I
Speaker 4: likely knew myself.
Speaker 1: And so they knew exactly what they were getting. You know.
Speaker 4: They're like, we got a guy that looks the part,
Speaker 4: but we can basically pull him into certain directions and
Speaker 4: scenarios and it's gonna, you know, if we need to,
Speaker 4: we can create chaos. And they did, and like that's
Speaker 4: they I know for a fact, that's half the reason
Speaker 4: they chose me. It was because they're like, this guy
Speaker 4: looks strong willed and looks confident and looks the part,
Speaker 4: but like we can basically hop in his body and
Speaker 4: control him, and and and.
Speaker 1: You know, and I allowed them to.
Speaker 4: I mean I I basically didn't stand my ground at
Speaker 4: points when I could have, because I was fearful of
Speaker 4: upsetting them, and fearful of losing the role of the bachelor,
Speaker 4: fearful of you know, yeah, basically being you know, seen
Speaker 4: as a reject in their eyes. I wanted their approval,
Speaker 4: like I wanted the girls approval, like I wanted the
Speaker 4: audience's approval. So you know, I did everything in my
Speaker 4: power to stay on their good terms, and there are
Speaker 4: points where I was like, hey, I don't really want
Speaker 4: to do this, but.
Speaker 1: I don't want to piss him off, So you.
Speaker 2: Know, you're it's a good point. Well, I have two
Speaker 2: things say, one as I one hundred percent know or
Speaker 2: I don't know. I believe strongly they know us better
Speaker 2: than we know ourselves. I've been in two scenarios behind
Speaker 2: the scenes in a production room where they have accurately
Speaker 2: predicted somebody's like big life choices spot on that that
Speaker 2: person would have never known they were going to choose
Speaker 2: like two years later, yes, And I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: that can't be true. And then it happens and I'm like,
Speaker 2: how did you guys know this?
Speaker 1: This is very creepy.
Speaker 2: This is probably the part that I don't want to
Speaker 2: think about too much because it gets too Truman Show esque.
Speaker 4: It's very well watched that and someone said watch it
Speaker 4: high and yeah, that's like my one vice is weed.
Speaker 4: So oh I saw my only advice. But I was like, okay,
Speaker 4: so I watched it. Oh my gosh. I was like
Speaker 4: from that point forward, I was like paranoid. I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 4: freaks out. Am I going to open up my door
Speaker 4: over here and someone's gonna run by, like damn, he
Speaker 4: was supposed.
Speaker 1: To open something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is the deep state that everybody seems to
Speaker 2: be wanting to fight right now. It's the Bachelor World
Speaker 2: and whatever they know about is there is something weird
Speaker 2: that they know somehow, some way.
Speaker 1: Ah, then you're going down They're going down a path.
Speaker 4: But I'm kind of I'm int ai and all that
Speaker 4: nerd and out and all this weird stuffy Let's listen.
Speaker 4: That's a conversation another time. But yeah, there's there's there's
Speaker 4: something something. How did they know that I was going
Speaker 4: to do that? And yeah, you're you're spot on, man.
Speaker 4: They can predict stuff because they psychoanalyzed us with some
Speaker 4: of the best minds in the in the in the business.
Speaker 4: They had us, you know, basically talk to them every
Speaker 4: single day. They had me to talk about my journal entries,
Speaker 4: I mean everything I shared with them at all points,
Speaker 4: you know, so it's like they knew exactly where I
Speaker 4: was at. They knew the rankings of the women because
Speaker 4: it was like one to thirty, where do each of
Speaker 4: these girls stand? So you had a little board, you know,
Speaker 4: and this boop from six to four It's like.
Speaker 2: I had a I had like a little u rolodex
Speaker 2: of their pictures and they'd have me move the pictures
Speaker 2: around and it'der. But they gave me a quarter ward too. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: with the names on it. Clayton, you are one of
Speaker 2: we have to close here. You were one of four
Speaker 2: bachelors since my time, no three, So you're one of
Speaker 2: three that did not ask any advice going into your season.
Speaker 1: So I think, what has there been.
Speaker 2: Ten nine of you?
Speaker 3: So ten nine of them?
Speaker 2: Yeah, you are one of three who did not want
Speaker 2: any of my help, which is fine. So the question
Speaker 2: is why did you not want maybe my help? But
Speaker 2: that would make sense if you asked other people for insight,
Speaker 2: and then I'd be like, that's great. But either you
Speaker 2: asked nobody or you didn't ask me. Uh, And maybe
Speaker 2: we could have prepped you bachelors of the past to say, hey,
Speaker 2: don't be super malleable. Try to stay a foot like
Speaker 2: a step ahead of them. They're going to do this stuff.
Speaker 2: You can put your foot down and say no. If
Speaker 2: you find yourself in a situation where all three are,
Speaker 2: you know, in the fantasy suites with you, like, here's
Speaker 2: maybe how you navigate it.
Speaker 1: But you did, I mean you did it with me,
Speaker 1: So did you with anybody? And if not? Why?
Speaker 4: No? The only person that I got advice from was
Speaker 4: Michelle because they brought her on like the first day
Speaker 4: of the show, which they showed on like a YouTube
Speaker 4: clip or the channel, but never like I think they'd
Speaker 4: never put it on like the actual televised show. And
Speaker 4: she came and the advice I think she gave me
Speaker 4: was just basically just be open, like or don't they
Speaker 4: take things too seriously and just understand that. Like you're like,
Speaker 4: like it's it's you. I can't really give you advice.
Speaker 4: It's kind of what she said. It was like, you're
Speaker 4: just gonna have to your experience will be unique from
Speaker 4: from mine and you're you're your own unique person, and
Speaker 4: your perspective will you know, dictate the outcome of this show.
Speaker 4: And I wanted her to give me, like we'll give
Speaker 4: me actual line items of things that I need to
Speaker 4: watch out for, and she was like, I really can't
Speaker 4: because it could influence you, and you know, basically it
Speaker 4: was like you just got to be you, right and so,
Speaker 4: and she gave me some other advice I can't remember,
Speaker 4: but that was the one that I was like, okay,
Speaker 4: like I that's there's really no like hard and fast
Speaker 4: yet rule number one, don't do this, rule number two.
Speaker 1: Don't do this.
Speaker 4: But then it also came into play that I didn't
Speaker 4: ask other people because I a couple of things. I
Speaker 4: didn't want to be swayed by somebody. I was like,
Speaker 4: I want to go into this experience with like no
Speaker 4: influence because I thought that, like.
Speaker 2: The producers who would be influencing you from the start,
Speaker 2: the only influence you.
Speaker 4: Wanted it was from the production influenced me as much
Speaker 4: as they did subtly right, Like I wasn't aware of
Speaker 4: it because it was my first I never really watched
Speaker 4: the show.
Speaker 1: I didn't know what it was, but like I didn't
Speaker 1: know the behind the scenes.
Speaker 4: So I was like, I'll be able to, you know,
Speaker 4: you know, navigate this environment, but I don't want any
Speaker 4: type of influence. I didn't know that they were going
Speaker 4: to be stepping in at points which you guys would
Speaker 4: have told me how to ask. All that being said,
Speaker 4: I would I'm glad it went the way that it
Speaker 4: went because it was that was the journey that was
Speaker 4: meant for me. I am glad, happy with who I
Speaker 4: am today. I needed a waking up. I needed to
Speaker 4: real lives that like people will step in and take
Speaker 4: advantage of you, and people like I needed to grow up.
Speaker 4: I needed to wise up, you know, I needed to
Speaker 4: become what I am today. And I wouldn't have become
Speaker 4: that had I had you know, been fed you know,
Speaker 4: an incredible you know experience on a silver platter, right,
Speaker 4: Like if I would have gotten you know, the golden
Speaker 4: boy at it like some bachelors do you know, we're like,
Speaker 4: I'm like, d this is he's the hero.
Speaker 1: Whatever.
Speaker 4: Like if I would have gotten that, then I would
Speaker 4: have just kept going with my inc my the things
Speaker 4: that are my weaknesses and my and things that needed improvement.
Speaker 4: It's never addressed. So instead I had all of my
Speaker 4: weaknesses and areas improvement put under a microscope and blasted
Speaker 4: out for the entire universe just to critique me on.
Speaker 4: And that's where I was like, cool, Okay, I'm I
Speaker 4: lack emotional intelligence. Okay, well I guess I should go
Speaker 4: acquire it. So I went and did that, and I
Speaker 4: did lack of emotional intelligence. I grew up with two brothers,
Speaker 4: no sisters. We never talked about our emotions. In my household,
Speaker 4: it was my dad was old school, love them to death,
Speaker 4: you know, but like we grew up in an old
Speaker 4: school environment.
Speaker 1: So like, I had no emotional intelligence and I had
Speaker 1: one girlfriend.
Speaker 4: Iired to that show, so like, I was not well
Speaker 4: versed on how to interact with like women, you know,
Speaker 4: as much as I wanted to be so like, but
Speaker 4: none of that would have ever come to light had I,
Speaker 4: you know, basically walked out of there and had a
Speaker 4: big old pat on the back and looked like, you know,
Speaker 4: the hero of the show. No, it's like I needed
Speaker 4: to be all that stuff to be highlighted, and it was.
Speaker 4: So I'm glad it went the way that it went.
Speaker 4: I think you would offered me great advice. I I
Speaker 4: just made the decision to not let anyone influence me.
Speaker 2: So I take I take nothing. I just wondered as
Speaker 2: you as you were talking, I was like, you know,
Speaker 2: what could have helped you here? I mean it was
Speaker 2: a nice like Sean low call to say, hey, buddy, like.
Speaker 1: How do I do this?
Speaker 4: You know, most people don't call me for advice, so
Speaker 4: that's that's which is funny, But they do call me
Speaker 4: when things go wrong. That's the funny thing when like
Speaker 4: it's like when you want to go to talk to
Speaker 4: somebody about you know, how do I deal with this adversity?
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm your guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, who's your publicist or management company? Give me the
Speaker 2: name Clayton. We really appreciate you coming on today. Thanks
Speaker 2: for talking about your time on the show and some
Speaker 2: of these big scenarios that were hard to break down.
Speaker 2: Maybe when they're immediate and like right afterwards, you can't
Speaker 2: just say like, yes, this is where my mind was at,
Speaker 2: or maybe this is what I didn't like or like,
Speaker 2: or this is what production was telling me. I think
Speaker 2: it's really good for the listener. Here's the hope that
Speaker 2: the listeners now tune in to the show and know
Speaker 2: it a little better. But as we said, this is
Speaker 2: a whole new production team. We don't know what the
Speaker 2: show is going to look like from here on out.
Speaker 2: It might be unrecognizable to all of us, but.
Speaker 1: Wait and see. Hey Clinton, thanks for coming on Infamous.
Speaker 3: Thanks Begs, Clinton, See you in Paradise.
Speaker 2: Bye.
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