WEBVTT - Infamous: Clayton Echard 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:05.120 Ben Higgins, and Ashley. I bring you Infamous. Sometimes roses 0:00:05.280 --> 0:00:06.320 are red flags. 0:00:07.040 --> 0:00:11.440 Welcome to Infamous, because sometimes roses are red flags. Our 0:00:11.480 --> 0:00:14.920 story continues today with Clayton Eckert. You know him from 0:00:15.000 --> 0:00:19.920 Michelle Young season and from his time as the Bachelor. Clayton, 0:00:20.360 --> 0:00:21.440 Welcome to the podcast. 0:00:22.040 --> 0:00:24.319 Thanks for having you, guys. This is a new little 0:00:24.320 --> 0:00:25.960 thing that you got going. Huh. 0:00:26.160 --> 0:00:29.760 It is so Clayton. We have talked to you many 0:00:29.840 --> 0:00:33.800 times about all the Fantasy Suite drama right the I 0:00:33.880 --> 0:00:34.960 slept with all of you, or I. 0:00:35.040 --> 0:00:37.440 Was into it with all of you. I love all 0:00:37.440 --> 0:00:37.760 of you. 0:00:38.120 --> 0:00:41.640 But we're going to start today the beginning of your 0:00:41.680 --> 0:00:45.479 season because there was a very well known villain on 0:00:45.520 --> 0:00:50.840 your season, Shane. She had pushed Elizabeth during an obstacle course, 0:00:50.920 --> 0:00:56.160 she called Elizabeth's ADHD diagnosis fake, and then there was 0:00:56.280 --> 0:01:00.920 shrimp Gate. But you kept Shane along for quite some time. 0:01:01.680 --> 0:01:06.280 Were you What was your opinion of her in the house? 0:01:06.800 --> 0:01:08.040 Was it true to what we saw on TV? 0:01:08.200 --> 0:01:08.400 Yeah? 0:01:08.440 --> 0:01:10.319 I mean, to be honest with you, it was such 0:01:10.319 --> 0:01:14.360 a small part of my story and my experience. I 0:01:14.400 --> 0:01:16.520 didn't even know half of that stuff was going on 0:01:17.280 --> 0:01:19.720 because I was so focused on the other women in 0:01:19.760 --> 0:01:22.399 my connections with them. That Like when it first got 0:01:22.400 --> 0:01:24.160 brought up, I just said, okay, I thought it was 0:01:24.160 --> 0:01:29.400 a one off thing. And you know we all understand that. Well, 0:01:30.040 --> 0:01:33.360 each episode, it's two hours long on TV, comprises I 0:01:33.400 --> 0:01:35.400 think four days of filming at sixteen hours a day 0:01:35.440 --> 0:01:37.080 of filming, so do the math, you know. 0:01:37.080 --> 0:01:38.280 It was at sixty four hours. 0:01:40.280 --> 0:01:42.760 It made it seem the edit because again it's all 0:01:42.800 --> 0:01:45.680 people tune in for the entertainment, for the drama, so 0:01:45.880 --> 0:01:48.000 it made it seem as though that was a massive 0:01:48.040 --> 0:01:52.080 storyline and it wasn't. To me like the experience I had, 0:01:52.120 --> 0:01:55.280 it was like it was like Ohne's side comment by 0:01:55.280 --> 0:01:58.280 the way, she's SE's created some drama. So like when 0:01:58.320 --> 0:02:00.320 I watched the show, I was like, whoa, this was 0:02:00.640 --> 0:02:02.600 acting like this is the main plot line. Like I 0:02:02.720 --> 0:02:05.960 this was hardly a narrative. But you know, again, like 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:08.200 the show is creating an entertaining TV show, All that 0:02:08.200 --> 0:02:11.200 stuff was happening. It just wasn't like the main focus, 0:02:11.440 --> 0:02:13.880 you know, But that's what the editay made it seem. 0:02:14.080 --> 0:02:17.119 It's always the big question, and I think from my standpoint, 0:02:17.120 --> 0:02:20.200 I agree with Clayton from the lead. You don't see 0:02:20.240 --> 0:02:24.000 all this stuff already know it's all happening, but it's 0:02:24.040 --> 0:02:25.960 a story that's going on, and the longer they can 0:02:26.080 --> 0:02:28.440 let it happen without you knowing it, the more content 0:02:28.480 --> 0:02:32.360 they get to show. Clayton, you've said recently to us 0:02:32.520 --> 0:02:34.800 that you have a better relationship. I don't know if 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:38.119 you've exactly defined it as good, but a better relationship 0:02:38.120 --> 0:02:42.440 with production today, and I that's a little bit confusing 0:02:42.440 --> 0:02:44.400 to me. I think you said this before the mass 0:02:44.480 --> 0:02:47.440 layoffs that have happened. Right over two hundred people are 0:02:47.480 --> 0:02:49.679 now no longer working on the show. The whole new 0:02:50.120 --> 0:02:53.840 team is in place. Ashley and myself, we know nobody 0:02:53.919 --> 0:02:56.920 other than one of this that still works on the 0:02:57.000 --> 0:03:00.360 show from our time, and that's probably similar to your situation. 0:03:01.160 --> 0:03:03.920 So my question, I guess, is help us understand is 0:03:03.960 --> 0:03:07.920 this a good relationship with production of old or have 0:03:08.040 --> 0:03:10.440 you already spoken to the whole new team and they 0:03:10.760 --> 0:03:12.800 got your back and you guys are ready to rock 0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:13.240 and roll. 0:03:14.360 --> 0:03:14.400 No. 0:03:14.520 --> 0:03:18.160 So I was at after the final Rows recently, and 0:03:18.680 --> 0:03:20.959 I would say there was about six or eight familiar 0:03:20.960 --> 0:03:27.040 faces that came in, executive producers, handlers, just people that 0:03:27.080 --> 0:03:27.760 were a part. 0:03:27.600 --> 0:03:30.519 Of my when I was the Bachelor that were around. 0:03:30.360 --> 0:03:33.240 So I again, I didn't see how much of the 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:34.880 rest of the team was there. I didn't get to 0:03:35.000 --> 0:03:37.000 talk to the cameramen and women. Honestly, I was kind 0:03:37.000 --> 0:03:38.560 of more so taking in all these other things. But 0:03:38.920 --> 0:03:41.720 there was enough familiar faces and they had come and 0:03:41.800 --> 0:03:44.840 checked in with me and we had good conversations. But 0:03:44.880 --> 0:03:47.160 I'm more so saying that, like I guess, yeah, more 0:03:47.200 --> 0:03:51.040 of a blanket statement. I'm more so in good graces 0:03:51.160 --> 0:03:54.880 with like the production element of or maybe and who 0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:57.720 knows how they view me, but like I'm okay with 0:03:57.960 --> 0:04:02.640 everything that happened. Because Matthew McConaughey's green Light said that 0:04:02.840 --> 0:04:04.880 book really resonated with me. I just loved his voice, 0:04:04.880 --> 0:04:07.200 for one, but I listened to his audiobook and on 0:04:07.320 --> 0:04:10.400 it he said it's not personal, it's business when referencing Hollywood, 0:04:10.480 --> 0:04:12.640 and I think that just I realized. I was like, 0:04:13.200 --> 0:04:15.600 they had to create a TV show, and you gave 0:04:15.640 --> 0:04:17.680 them a lot of stuff to put out there, so 0:04:18.080 --> 0:04:21.239 it's not like they're you know, they just did their job, 0:04:21.440 --> 0:04:24.119 which was put out an entertaining a show. 0:04:24.640 --> 0:04:26.599 So with that, I'm like it's not personal, you know, 0:04:26.640 --> 0:04:29.200 I can't. These people aren't monsters, They're just they have 0:04:29.240 --> 0:04:30.960 a job to do, and you signed up for it. 0:04:31.040 --> 0:04:32.520 You just weren't really aware of what all it was 0:04:32.560 --> 0:04:32.760 going to. 0:04:32.880 --> 0:04:37.200 Entail when you're watching the show back. Was there one 0:04:37.360 --> 0:04:41.560 time besides like before Fantasy Sweet Drama where you were like, 0:04:41.640 --> 0:04:45.039 holy crap, like that surprised me, like I can't believe 0:04:45.080 --> 0:04:48.279 that happened, or that is not the way that happened. 0:04:49.400 --> 0:04:55.400 Uh, yeah, I would say, I'm trying to think what 0:04:55.440 --> 0:04:55.920 came up. 0:04:56.880 --> 0:05:01.200 My one thought was there was there was. 0:05:02.600 --> 0:05:04.880 There was a point where we had like a psychotherapy 0:05:05.000 --> 0:05:08.800 date or and uh at the end of it, the 0:05:08.839 --> 0:05:13.719 psychotherapist was like, hey, I had a great time getting 0:05:13.760 --> 0:05:15.680 to know you all today, but there's someone here that's 0:05:15.680 --> 0:05:17.280 not here for the right reasons or they d something 0:05:17.320 --> 0:05:18.080 along those lines. 0:05:18.680 --> 0:05:21.720 And she says that, and then they turned. 0:05:21.920 --> 0:05:24.520 She turns to me, and I just look at her 0:05:24.600 --> 0:05:27.880 and I go all right, well, I'm not really sure 0:05:27.880 --> 0:05:29.240 what that's about, but let's just go ahead and go 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:33.320 to the after party or whatever. And then the show 0:05:33.440 --> 0:05:38.240 was like hold on, stop, Clayton, that's it, And I 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:40.760 was like, I'm not really gonna put much weight into that. Guys, like, 0:05:40.760 --> 0:05:42.800 I'm not really too concerned about it. I don't I 0:05:42.800 --> 0:05:45.839 don't agree with what her assessment. They're like, no, you 0:05:45.920 --> 0:05:49.040 gotta like there's something amiss. I was like, no, like, 0:05:49.600 --> 0:05:51.360 and so it was just like that's what I came 0:05:51.440 --> 0:05:53.160 up when you asked me that question. Was like it 0:05:53.279 --> 0:05:55.800 was like, I'm like, they're like, no, you have to be, 0:05:55.920 --> 0:05:58.640 you know, more bothered by this than you are. And 0:05:59.600 --> 0:06:02.760 there was multiple times, I guess throughout the experience where 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:05.400 I was like, Guys, I also understand that I want 0:06:05.400 --> 0:06:07.719 to show and like people may be playing up some 0:06:07.839 --> 0:06:10.279 drama and like, I just can't fake this. I'm not 0:06:10.320 --> 0:06:15.159 an actor, so whatever, like this seems petty. So I 0:06:15.160 --> 0:06:17.240 guess that would be an example of like a time 0:06:17.279 --> 0:06:19.279 where it just didn't seem like a big deal. But 0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:23.280 it led to a situation where it was Sarah that 0:06:23.440 --> 0:06:26.040 was she was telling the other girls that I was 0:06:26.080 --> 0:06:28.640 going to choose her from the very beginning, and then 0:06:28.680 --> 0:06:31.080 those girls approached me because they were like, hey, she's 0:06:31.080 --> 0:06:32.800 saying these things and I'm like, I don't believe it 0:06:32.880 --> 0:06:35.279 unless like the women tell me. And so then I 0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:36.680 had a few women that came up to me that 0:06:36.720 --> 0:06:38.719 I trusted that were like, yeah, she's been saying this 0:06:38.760 --> 0:06:40.880 all along. We almost left the house, and I was like, whoa, whoa, 0:06:40.920 --> 0:06:43.680 whoa whoa, Like y'all were about to leave, and so 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:45.280 at that point then I was like, what's going on, 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:48.360 Like there's all this stuff that's happening behind the scenes 0:06:48.360 --> 0:06:50.760 that like I'm not privy to, and you're telling me that. 0:06:50.839 --> 0:06:53.120 Like four of the top you know ten you know 0:06:53.160 --> 0:06:55.000 women that were in my top ten or whatever, four 0:06:55.000 --> 0:06:56.640 of them were said they were about to leave multiple 0:06:56.640 --> 0:06:57.320 times about the show. 0:06:57.360 --> 0:06:59.560 Because of what Sarah was saying, I was like, what 0:06:59.680 --> 0:06:59.920 is going on? 0:07:00.440 --> 0:07:04.320 Like why am I not being informed about this? So, yeah, 0:07:04.360 --> 0:07:06.880 it was stuff like that. There was like always I 0:07:06.920 --> 0:07:08.560 started to realize later in the show, I'm like, stuff 0:07:08.600 --> 0:07:11.200 is happening and I'm not being told, like because I 0:07:11.200 --> 0:07:13.160 guess I'm not there, so technically I shouldn't be told, 0:07:13.200 --> 0:07:15.760 but like, also, I feel like I need to know 0:07:15.760 --> 0:07:16.800 if someone's about to leave. 0:07:17.600 --> 0:07:21.600 Clayton, there's a and your season doesn't get credit for it, 0:07:21.680 --> 0:07:25.120 but I feel like there was a big storyline coming 0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:30.360 out of your season around sex that wasn't as discussed 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:33.280 as maybe other seasons that we think of when we 0:07:33.320 --> 0:07:40.880 think of physical intimacy. There there was criticism based on 0:07:41.000 --> 0:07:43.880 how defensive you seemed, and watching it back, you did 0:07:43.880 --> 0:07:44.720 seem defensive. 0:07:44.800 --> 0:07:45.160 I don't know. 0:07:45.200 --> 0:07:46.760 You could argue with me and say you weren't or 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:48.800 it didn't seem like that. But from the show standpoint, 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:51.520 it did seem like it. When Susie was talking about 0:07:51.520 --> 0:07:57.800 her boundaries, it was criticized publicly. Now watching it back 0:07:57.840 --> 0:08:00.520 and now being removed from it, were you defensive? Was 0:08:00.560 --> 0:08:03.400 that just what the show made it seem like? What 0:08:03.480 --> 0:08:05.520 was your thoughts at the time as you sat I 0:08:05.520 --> 0:08:06.600 think it was at a dinner table. 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:09.400 Yeah, I mean, I think what you saw is what 0:08:09.440 --> 0:08:10.920 you saw. That was my reaction. 0:08:12.200 --> 0:08:14.920 That was my reaction, though, four hours into a conversation, 0:08:15.200 --> 0:08:17.240 and it was in the last five minutes, you know, 0:08:17.280 --> 0:08:19.760 when I realized They're like, we gotta go, you guys, 0:08:19.800 --> 0:08:23.200 got to wrap this conversation up. And so as my 0:08:23.280 --> 0:08:25.240 back felt against the wall and everything felt like it 0:08:25.280 --> 0:08:28.000 was falling apart, and I started to question, if you know, 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:30.960 if Susie was you had all to your motives and 0:08:31.600 --> 0:08:33.640 I started basically getting in my head. And so those 0:08:33.679 --> 0:08:36.480 final five to ten minutes. I was like, I, you know, 0:08:36.640 --> 0:08:38.679 I don't even know what I'm looking at anymore. I 0:08:38.720 --> 0:08:39.960 don't know who you are, and I didn't want to 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:41.760 hear anything else. I was like, it's over. Like I 0:08:41.800 --> 0:08:43.760 didn't want to have that conversation on camera, but I 0:08:43.760 --> 0:08:46.760 didn't have a choice. It was like I begged for 0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:49.640 us to take the fantasy suites and then have that 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:54.280 conversation in private, and was not able to happen. So 0:08:55.520 --> 0:08:57.520 at that point I was like, okay, So I started 0:08:57.880 --> 0:08:59.880 telling her in the best way that I could, this 0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:03.480 is what you know, what happens, And then once I 0:09:03.520 --> 0:09:06.560 said it on camera, it was like it's out there, right, 0:09:06.679 --> 0:09:08.600 you know. Now I have to go tell the other 0:09:08.640 --> 0:09:11.360 women it's it's it's that's just there's no other way about. 0:09:11.400 --> 0:09:13.080 You can sit here and say, well, he shouldn't said 0:09:13.080 --> 0:09:15.440 anything until you know the show aired. I'm like, why 0:09:15.480 --> 0:09:17.240 would I do that, you know, move forward with one 0:09:17.240 --> 0:09:18.679 of the other two women and then go, oh, hey, 0:09:18.679 --> 0:09:20.439 by the way, we're together. Now something happened too and 0:09:20.480 --> 0:09:21.640 a half weeks so that you need to know about. 0:09:21.679 --> 0:09:24.280 I'm like, no, everybody needs to be caught up with 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:28.560 what transpired. So I felt that full transparency was the 0:09:28.559 --> 0:09:31.200 way to go. As far as like how I conducted 0:09:31.200 --> 0:09:34.319 myself in those final ten minutes, I got scrutinized. Yeah, 0:09:34.480 --> 0:09:35.920 I raised my tone. I even said, you know, hey, 0:09:35.920 --> 0:09:37.360 this is out of character for me. I'm not normally 0:09:37.440 --> 0:09:38.559 you know, I don't normally raise. 0:09:38.400 --> 0:09:39.000 My tone like this. 0:09:40.360 --> 0:09:41.920 You know, I think I got fed to the wolves. 0:09:41.960 --> 0:09:44.199 I'm like, I don't think I know people. I'm not 0:09:44.240 --> 0:09:44.760 trying to compare. 0:09:45.040 --> 0:09:46.439 But at the end of the day, it was a 0:09:46.480 --> 0:09:47.360 four hour conversation. 0:09:47.400 --> 0:09:50.320 The final ten minutes, I lost my cool bit, and 0:09:50.640 --> 0:09:52.280 you know, I take accountability for that. People didn't like 0:09:52.360 --> 0:09:55.240 the way I reacted, but that's I felt, you know 0:09:55.360 --> 0:09:56.720 that I was my back was against the wall and 0:09:56.720 --> 0:09:59.640 everything was slipping, and I was, you know, grasping at straws, 0:09:59.640 --> 0:10:01.679 and I was in a really uncomfortable spot, and so, 0:10:01.960 --> 0:10:05.320 you know, yeah, I was just trying to say or 0:10:05.360 --> 0:10:07.559 do the right thing to keep her around and she 0:10:07.640 --> 0:10:09.520 wasn't willing to And at that point I felt like 0:10:09.679 --> 0:10:11.120 I was in a bad spot. I'm like, I'm going 0:10:11.200 --> 0:10:13.080 to lose her, and then I'm going to lose these 0:10:13.120 --> 0:10:15.280 other women tomorrow when I fill them in on what happened. 0:10:16.080 --> 0:10:19.280 It was a four hour conversation. What did the other 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:20.280 four hours look like? 0:10:21.040 --> 0:10:22.960 Sound like they were fine? 0:10:23.040 --> 0:10:27.600 I mean they were very cordial, but then things started 0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:29.880 to just go sideways where and it wasn't shown, but 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:32.719 it's like I just wanted I did not want to 0:10:32.760 --> 0:10:35.600 have the conversation that was shown on camera. I was 0:10:35.640 --> 0:10:39.280 like begging to do it off camera, and we signed 0:10:39.320 --> 0:10:41.320 contracts saying that we are going to put everything on 0:10:41.400 --> 0:10:44.720 camera outside of Fantasy Suite, So like I wanted to, 0:10:44.920 --> 0:10:46.680 like because again it was out of respect. I also 0:10:46.720 --> 0:10:49.840 didn't feel comfortable talking about the other women and like 0:10:49.960 --> 0:10:51.920 putting it out there, putting their business out there. 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:53.520 But I didn't have a choice. 0:10:53.520 --> 0:10:56.800 So when I was sorry to realize, like you have 0:10:56.840 --> 0:10:58.439 to have this conversation, I'm like, Okay, I have to 0:10:58.520 --> 0:11:00.959 navigate this and say the thing and every word like 0:11:01.000 --> 0:11:03.800 could potentially give up more information than I want. But 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:06.160 she needs to know what happened, because she asked me directly, 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:08.240 have you expressed feelings lovever been intimate with the other women? 0:11:08.240 --> 0:11:10.360 And I was like, well, that's a direct question. I 0:11:10.440 --> 0:11:12.640 chanced skirt around this. If I skirt around it, I'm 0:11:12.640 --> 0:11:16.040 gonna be lying you know, or a air biomission. Right, 0:11:16.120 --> 0:11:18.480 So I'm like, it's an indirect lie, and I was like, 0:11:18.480 --> 0:11:22.079 you're not a liar, So I was. It was us 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:23.760 going back and forth and trying to see if we 0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:28.280 can make it work, and just like between us and yeah, 0:11:28.320 --> 0:11:31.200 I mean after it just then she wasn't willing to 0:11:32.440 --> 0:11:35.360 do the overnights and so that's where it was like, guys, 0:11:35.400 --> 0:11:37.480 wrap this up. And that's where I was like, all right, 0:11:37.480 --> 0:11:39.400 here's the final ten minutes. And that was what was shown. 0:11:50.120 --> 0:11:55.200 It felt like watching it, and this infamous series is 0:11:55.200 --> 0:11:57.800 a lot about what's the secrets of behind the scenes, 0:11:57.880 --> 0:12:00.280 kind of pulling back the layer and getting to the 0:12:00.320 --> 0:12:04.400 real part. It felt like watching your season. It was 0:12:04.440 --> 0:12:07.480 shocking to me that production was able to keep you around. 0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:10.760 I say that because it did feel like everything was 0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:15.079 going okay, and then these last week two weeks like 0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:17.800 it it felt like every place you turned, and I'll 0:12:17.840 --> 0:12:20.360 just be honest, you couldn't make a good decision and 0:12:21.000 --> 0:12:23.640 it was like you were gonna get pounded from every 0:12:23.760 --> 0:12:27.000 side and there was no right like you were kind 0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:32.080 of saying decision you could make, including a comment Rachel 0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:36.840 made which is a big accusation. It's a big question. 0:12:38.040 --> 0:12:39.960 So I want you to answer kind of respond to 0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:42.120 this statement that she made. But then also if you 0:12:42.120 --> 0:12:44.719 can tie it into how is production encouraging you to 0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:46.920 even stick around after this kind of thing? As being 0:12:46.960 --> 0:12:50.120 said she said that you kept her around or you 0:12:50.200 --> 0:12:52.720 told her that you were in love with her because 0:12:52.880 --> 0:12:57.480 you wanted to sleep with her. That is a big accusation, 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:00.640 one of the biggest I think, and again talked about 0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:04.200 enough on the show that the show's ever had. So 0:13:04.240 --> 0:13:06.439 how did production keep you around? And what was your 0:13:06.480 --> 0:13:08.960 thoughts when this was being said to you, knowing it 0:13:09.040 --> 0:13:11.480 was going to be aired at some point on national television. 0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:15.600 Well, she said that at the live show, I guess so, 0:13:17.040 --> 0:13:19.000 and I was prepped with a You're going to have 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:23.000 at most fifteen seconds to respond. So when that was 0:13:23.040 --> 0:13:26.080 said to me, I said, no, like, there's literally I 0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:27.240 can't go into detail. 0:13:27.320 --> 0:13:30.160 This is a live show. I have to just deny 0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:31.160 this because. 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:33.840 It wasn't anyways, But I understand that she was hurt 0:13:33.920 --> 0:13:36.880 and and her and I've talked since then, We've made amend, 0:13:36.960 --> 0:13:39.200 So you know, I'm I'm not going to falter for 0:13:39.280 --> 0:13:41.840 what she said, but I was basically told you of 0:13:41.880 --> 0:13:44.080 fifteen seconds for whatever she says. And so when she 0:13:44.160 --> 0:13:46.280 said that, my brain was like computing and I'm like, 0:13:46.320 --> 0:13:48.720 there's literally nothing else you can say in this timeframe 0:13:49.600 --> 0:13:52.760 other than no, that's not true. So I said that 0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:54.520 and that was it, and you know, it was it 0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:57.319 was very you know, it sucked because then everyone online, 0:13:57.400 --> 0:13:58.960 you know, and this is still the narrative I see 0:13:58.960 --> 0:14:01.079 as like Clayton just said what he needed to say 0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:04.760 to sleep with these women, and that was so false, 0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:07.199 like I didn't have to sleep with any of those women. 0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:10.040 And also like, listen, I've never claimed to be a saint. 0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:13.880 You know, I have a past, and I would just 0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:15.880 say like I've never you know, it's not like I 0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:18.240 was desperate to finally be intimate with a woman like 0:14:18.240 --> 0:14:21.400 I'd never been before. So you know, that was like 0:14:21.440 --> 0:14:23.680 the narrative that got spun was like Clayton saying whatever 0:14:23.680 --> 0:14:25.280 you needs to say to get these women in bed, 0:14:25.280 --> 0:14:29.160 and I'm like, that's ridiculous, Like that's stupid. I just 0:14:29.280 --> 0:14:31.200 if I was going to actually get engaged at the 0:14:31.280 --> 0:14:33.160 end of the show, which I opened my mind up to, 0:14:33.240 --> 0:14:34.160 I said, yeah, I'll do it. 0:14:34.520 --> 0:14:37.160 But if I'm going to get engaged, I need to 0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:38.480 make sure that we're sexually compatible. 0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:40.440 That's just that's just if we were going to walk 0:14:40.440 --> 0:14:42.960 out here being boyfriend girlfriend like, then yeah, I don't 0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:45.440 need to be intimate. But if I'm actually gonna propose, 0:14:45.480 --> 0:14:47.120 and this is serious to me, I don't care TV 0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:48.640 or not, like if I'm going to need to propose 0:14:48.640 --> 0:14:50.320 with a ring, this is serious. 0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:52.920 So I need to make sure there's sexual compatibility. 0:14:53.200 --> 0:14:55.360 So second I made that decision that I was ready 0:14:55.400 --> 0:14:59.040 to get down on one knee. That's where I was like, Okay, hey, 0:14:59.080 --> 0:15:01.080 I'm going to go explore these relationships fully. And each 0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:02.640 of the women said that to me forbadihim, I want 0:15:02.680 --> 0:15:06.280 you to explore the relationships fully as I walked into overnights. 0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:08.120 That was said by every all three of those women 0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:10.880 going into that next weekend. So I was like, okay, well, 0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:13.680 you're telling me to explore the relationships fully as I 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:16.600 walk into overnights, I feel like we're you're without saying it, 0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:19.680 You're telling me what you're okay with. That's the assumption 0:15:19.720 --> 0:15:22.840 I made, and I don't know then, based on their responses, 0:15:22.880 --> 0:15:24.040 I guess it wasn't. 0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:24.880 You know, I took it the wrong way. 0:15:24.920 --> 0:15:27.120 But if you tell a man man that, I think 0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:29.880 he perceives it a bit differently than a woman potentially, 0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:30.720 or at least I did. 0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:33.320 Yeah, this is tough stuff, Ben, What is your take? 0:15:33.880 --> 0:15:36.360 I mean, I think, well, one, I want to comment 0:15:36.440 --> 0:15:40.120 on the fifteen seconds to respond that is a just 0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:43.960 a spot on scenario that happens on this show. 0:15:44.240 --> 0:15:46.520 Like it just does. Like, Hey, we're going to put 0:15:46.520 --> 0:15:47.280 you on the live show. 0:15:47.760 --> 0:15:49.360 Just want to let you know, like this is going 0:15:49.400 --> 0:15:50.680 to get kind of ugly for a bit and you're 0:15:50.680 --> 0:15:53.320 gonna have fifteen seconds to say something to like pretty 0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:58.160 much like complete the conversation. You're like, no, that's so. 0:15:58.240 --> 0:16:00.480 I just want to make note that for any listener 0:16:00.560 --> 0:16:02.560 as we talk about some of the behind the scenes 0:16:02.600 --> 0:16:06.480 here without breaking our NBA's like, that is a very 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:09.560 common thing. It means, it's very real. It's not edited 0:16:09.600 --> 0:16:11.200 to make it look like it was only fifteen seconds. 0:16:11.200 --> 0:16:14.080 Though you have fifteen seconds to explain how much you 0:16:14.120 --> 0:16:17.280 actually cared about this person. That's the first thought. 0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:17.800 I think. 0:16:18.200 --> 0:16:21.680 My thought as the lead is as a former lead 0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:26.400 when it comes to fantasy suites and intimacy, I mean, 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:28.080 I think Clayton. The only thing I would say was like, 0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:31.120 you should have asked for not for no other reason 0:16:31.400 --> 0:16:34.440 than mostly so that what happened at the end of 0:16:34.480 --> 0:16:36.600 your show didn't happen like clarity, Like what do you 0:16:36.600 --> 0:16:39.280 exactly mean by that? Like, Hey, this is you know, 0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:42.400 very a very like thrown up, Like I'm still kind 0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:44.920 of confused, I'm feeling things for all of you. Clarity 0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:48.480 probably wouldn't have been helpful there. And that's on you, Like, 0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:50.920 that's not a production thing, that's not an editing thing. 0:16:50.960 --> 0:16:53.960 That's on you as the lead to say, Okay, what 0:16:54.000 --> 0:16:55.560 do you think happens in this situation? 0:16:55.680 --> 0:16:57.040 Right? What are we good about. 0:16:56.760 --> 0:17:00.400 Here as a couple? Yeah, And you didn't, and that's 0:17:00.400 --> 0:17:04.040 probably where the mistake was made and why the feelings 0:17:04.040 --> 0:17:06.720 were hurt. I also think, and I goodness, gracious, we 0:17:06.840 --> 0:17:10.240 love Rachel so much on this podcast, I think you 0:17:10.480 --> 0:17:14.000 had three really big personalities at the end of your season, 0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:22.640 really strong, outspoken people women, and I think they were 0:17:22.800 --> 0:17:24.719 just going to say what they felt and what they 0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:27.760 were thinking no matter what, because that's who they are 0:17:27.760 --> 0:17:33.120 as people. And I think you were the common denominating target. 0:17:33.200 --> 0:17:35.280 And I think it was a really hard situation for 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:38.399 you to go through because you had three great people, 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:42.359 but three big personalities that were outspoken, and that that's tough. 0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:44.399 It's tough when two of them are going to be 0:17:44.440 --> 0:17:45.720 upset with, like really upset with you. 0:17:46.359 --> 0:17:48.080 Yeah, I mean that's a good I mean, yes, they're 0:17:48.200 --> 0:17:50.360 very powerful personalities, each of them. Each of them are 0:17:50.400 --> 0:17:52.399 doing really well in their own ways, and some of 0:17:52.440 --> 0:17:54.199 them are you know, really blowing up in the reality 0:17:54.240 --> 0:17:57.040 TV world and some are just making you know, they're 0:17:57.080 --> 0:17:58.160 still doing really great. 0:17:57.920 --> 0:17:59.080 With brand partnerships. 0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:01.600 But yeah, they I mean you see like they're still 0:18:01.840 --> 0:18:05.439 years later, very prominent in their respective fields. 0:18:05.520 --> 0:18:08.639 So it's yeah, I mean it's a good spot on assessment. 0:18:09.119 --> 0:18:12.159 And they you know, were unapologetically themselves and so when 0:18:12.200 --> 0:18:14.080 they had the moment, they're like, I'm gonna speak my mind, 0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:16.280 and they did and they had the right to do that. 0:18:16.680 --> 0:18:17.800 So but you're spot on. 0:18:17.840 --> 0:18:17.919 You. 0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:20.280 I also accountability. I could have always asked more questions 0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:23.879