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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for

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Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,

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Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyan. This is episode number one Tay

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Speaker 1: the show. Dan and I are joined by Kevin Merrow,

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Speaker 1: a bow hunter from Pennsylvania and host of the trad

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Speaker 1: Geeks podcast, and we're going to talk about bull hunting

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Speaker 1: white tails, traditional archery, and dealing with target panic, and

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Speaker 1: much much more. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast,

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Speaker 1: brought to you by Sitka Gear and Tan the show.

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Speaker 1: Dan and I are joined by Kevin Merrow, a bow

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Speaker 1: hunter from Pennsylvania and the host of the trad Geeks podcast.

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Speaker 1: And today I'm hoping we can talk to Kevin about

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Speaker 1: chasing Pennsylvania white tails and the trad part of his

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Speaker 1: podcast name that being traditional archery. I'd say every year

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Speaker 1: now I keep hearing more and more about people dabbling

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Speaker 1: with trad gear, kind of adding that to what they're doing,

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Speaker 1: and a number of my good friends have too. So

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Speaker 1: we're hoping to pick Kevin's brain today a bit about

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Speaker 1: what that change has been like for him, what other

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Speaker 1: things hunters should consider if they're trying to add this

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Speaker 1: to their archery game and a whole lot more of that.

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Speaker 1: So I don't know about you, Dan, I'm I'm personally

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Speaker 1: too partial to my compound to try traditional, but I

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Speaker 1: know a lot of guys are interested in it, so

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Speaker 1: it should be an interesting conversation. Yeah, I tell you,

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Speaker 1: the first person that I'm going to call when I

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Speaker 1: ever do make the switch. It's not gonna happen in

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Speaker 1: the near future, obviously, but I might pick one up

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Speaker 1: for fun. But the first person that I'm gonna call

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Speaker 1: is today's guest. Well, that's perfect because we're going to

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Speaker 1: make that call here soon. And uh, and he's just

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Speaker 1: a good dude. Kevin's a good guy, and I think

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Speaker 1: there's some interesting things to talk about when it comes

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Speaker 1: to white tails and some of his Western trips. And uh,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. He's also a hunter podcaster father like you,

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Speaker 1: so we might be able to pick his brain about

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Speaker 1: that too. Yeah, the podcast minds are gonna meet today. Yes,

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Speaker 1: that's gonna be that's gonna be the game plan. But

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Speaker 1: before all that, what's what's going on with you? Man?

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Speaker 1: I mean, whoa, I had a couple just a squig

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Speaker 1: of coffee that went down the wrong pipe right there. However,

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Speaker 1: we were talking, we're talking before we started recording. How

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Speaker 1: early on in the podcast, you know, like three years

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Speaker 1: ago or whatever it was. We were young and so sprightly.

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Speaker 1: We would start every podcast and know what kind of

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Speaker 1: beer you got? You got this beer, and you've got

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Speaker 1: this beer, and we're pretty cool. And now it's like,

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Speaker 1: how many cups of coffee have you had to drink today?

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Speaker 1: More than the doctor's recommendation? I tell you that, I

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Speaker 1: know I was. I was kind of dragging this afternoon.

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Speaker 1: I literally just got my cup of coffee off the

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Speaker 1: machine and and in the room in time for you

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Speaker 1: to call. So, so what we're gonna say. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I've been shooting my bow and I am I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I'm just excited to start shooting again. I put it

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Speaker 1: down almost for six months, you know, uh, the bow down,

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Speaker 1: to be honest with you, And now I'm picking it

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Speaker 1: back up again, starting to get the you know, the

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Speaker 1: sites sided in. I'm using a one pin where I

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Speaker 1: have to put one of those UH tapes on it.

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Speaker 1: You know, you you shoot it at twenty, then you

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Speaker 1: shoot it at sixty and then that tells you what

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Speaker 1: what tape you need to put or what label you

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Speaker 1: need to put on your on your site. And then

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Speaker 1: I'll start honing really honing it in there. And uh,

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Speaker 1: actually after this podcast today, I'm gonna go, um visit

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Speaker 1: my buddy Mitch at the bow shop and he's gonna

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Speaker 1: be building some arrows for me. I'm going and I'm

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Speaker 1: going four foot is this year interesting? What's the reason there? Well,

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Speaker 1: I hear from all the talk that I've had on

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Speaker 1: my podcast that four fletch really studies the arrow out

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Speaker 1: um in flight. That creates a little bit more drag,

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Speaker 1: which means that the arrow becomes straighter and that you know,

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Speaker 1: like you've you've seen an arrow come off a bow

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Speaker 1: slow motion, right, it's all you know, flimsy and going

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Speaker 1: all over. The fletchings are what they do is they

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Speaker 1: straighten that out. They stop that from happening. And if

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Speaker 1: you put add some guys believe that four fletches will

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Speaker 1: make that happen faster. And so that's my goal. Basically,

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Speaker 1: it slows the arrow down a bit, but it creates

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Speaker 1: a straighter arrow, a better flight, and uh that's the

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Speaker 1: that's the hope. Anyway, nice accuracy, that's the main that's

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Speaker 1: the goal. Yeah, gotta put the arrow where you want to.

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Speaker 1: That's the fact. My man. I've been I've been doing

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Speaker 1: the same thing. Actually, I've been out shooting mind the

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Speaker 1: house and it feels good. It feels good to be

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Speaker 1: shooting and dropping the dropping the arrow in the bull's eye.

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Speaker 1: And uh man, there's no we we talked about every week.

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Speaker 1: It's probably annoying, but I'm just so excited. Um and again,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's just this time of year, for whatever reason,

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Speaker 1: when it starts feeling like summer, it just it just starts.

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Speaker 1: I feel like it's that new phase of the year.

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Speaker 1: And just standing sitting behind the house in the yard,

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Speaker 1: shooting the bow, watching the crops popping up around me,

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Speaker 1: and just like thinking about, you know, snacking me too

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Speaker 1: long Now, I wanna be in a tree. Um. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm just I'm I'm raring to go. I've been doing

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Speaker 1: a ton of white tail stuff lately. Um, all this

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Speaker 1: well not well, I don't know, a bunch of the

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Speaker 1: stuff we talked about last week in the podcast been

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Speaker 1: executing on so over the weekend, I pulled a stand

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Speaker 1: and pung a new stand up in um. In one

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Speaker 1: of those locations I mentioned to you where I had

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Speaker 1: seen holy Field pop out a few times along that

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Speaker 1: field edge, but I never had a permanent set there.

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Speaker 1: So I got that hung up and trimmed out and

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Speaker 1: all set. And another one of the stands that I

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Speaker 1: saw holy Field from a number of times where I've

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Speaker 1: got to full draw on him. Um. I improved that

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Speaker 1: stand location a little bit by going there and adding

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Speaker 1: more cover around my stand so that I would just

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Speaker 1: be even more secludes. I got that set up. UM.

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Speaker 1: I started digging in one of my water holes. UM,

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Speaker 1: got that partially buried. It was just a little bit

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Speaker 1: too wet to get it all the way in. It

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Speaker 1: was like standing water in the area I wanted it

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Speaker 1: right now. Everything's like super super super flooded. Um. So

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Speaker 1: once it drives out, I'll get that buried all the

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Speaker 1: way and um and it killed the turkey. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: saw that. Congrats man, thank you sir. I was able

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Speaker 1: to fill it in like the fourth to last day

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Speaker 1: of the season. So it isn't turkey hunting fun, just

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Speaker 1: someone who passed the time. It is fun. It is fun.

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Speaker 1: I Uh, I had had a weird season because I

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Speaker 1: was gone for most of it, so I just had

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Speaker 1: I only actually went out myself twice. Um, the other

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Speaker 1: four times I went out, I was guiding people. But um,

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Speaker 1: but I got done. So let's outfit fitting deal out

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Speaker 1: of your house. Well, so far everyone I've got quote

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Speaker 1: unquote guided has been a friend or family. Um, but

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Speaker 1: so you're currently not charging what I'm saying, currently not charging.

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Speaker 1: But the point I'm trying to get to is that

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Speaker 1: nobody would really pay me, so I wouldn't be worth

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Speaker 1: the price. We have a success rate. Yeah, it's a

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Speaker 1: it's been. It's been some good years and some bad years.

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Speaker 1: This year was a little tough. But but I actually

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Speaker 1: I actually played. I had my buddy calling most of

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Speaker 1: the time for me this week and I went out

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Speaker 1: with my friend Andy, and um, we were kind of

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Speaker 1: running and gunning on some different property than a buddy

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Speaker 1: of mine owns, and um, just try some new spots

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Speaker 1: and had to hit a couple of different farms because

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Speaker 1: they weren't talking at all on another on the first

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Speaker 1: place we went to. But the second spot we heard

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Speaker 1: some gobbling far off and I got set up and

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Speaker 1: Andy got on the call for this one and it

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Speaker 1: worked out and actually Hen came out and she started

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Speaker 1: making a bunch of noise, and so we started going

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Speaker 1: back and forth with her, and that was enough to

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Speaker 1: get the get the boys excited, and they came in

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Speaker 1: and rolled on. So fried turkey coming up soon delish. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So turkey seas is done. White tails are in the

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Speaker 1: white tails are in the future. So do you get

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Speaker 1: anything white tail re laid done this weekend? No, I

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Speaker 1: talked about it. I'll tell you what. We had planned

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Speaker 1: to go fishing this weekend and the water was just

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Speaker 1: way too high on the river, so we stayed home.

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Speaker 1: Got a lot of stuff around the house done. Um yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean it was nice enough to where we were

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Speaker 1: outside a lot. I was just playing. I just spent

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Speaker 1: a lot of time with a family. Now, either this

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Speaker 1: weekend or the next weekend, I will be setting up

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Speaker 1: trail cameras and um yeah, so that's the goal in

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Speaker 1: the next couple of weeks. I checked one. I checked

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Speaker 1: one trail camera. Nothing. I mean, it's a it's a

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Speaker 1: property that's kind of secondary. A couple two year old

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Speaker 1: bucks from based on their body size. Nothing, nothing worth

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Speaker 1: talking about. And uh, you know, I mean I'm in

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Speaker 1: a holding pattern until I can get out and go

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Speaker 1: set cams up. Yeah. Well, I'm excited to get mine

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Speaker 1: up to I'm probably gonna do that here soon. And

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Speaker 1: I've got access to a couple of spots I think

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Speaker 1: might be where holy Field summers. Um, So I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: put some cameras out there and see if I can

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Speaker 1: confirm that suspicion. Do you have any velvet pictures of him? Ever? Never?

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Speaker 1: Not once his his core range shifts. Yeah, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean he I've never seen him before September. I think

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Speaker 1: the last two years it's been like September. Uh, let

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Speaker 1: me think about this. I don't know, maybe second week

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Speaker 1: of September that I've started seeing him and getting pictures

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Speaker 1: of him. Um. So, yeah, we gotta get some velvet pictures.

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Speaker 1: We gotta see you with this big boy looks like

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Speaker 1: this year. Oh I bet she's two fifty. I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: go that far, but I like the optimism, right, So

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Speaker 1: exciting stuff ahead, my friend. But we're gonna have to uh,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna have to shut up here and get our

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Speaker 1: guests on the line because we started a little late today.

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Speaker 1: So let's pause for our sit Coast story and then

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Speaker 1: we will give Kevin a call for this week's Sitkast story.

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Speaker 1: We're joined by Andy Or from Dear Society, who tells

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Speaker 1: us about an encounter with a Southern aibil book that

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Speaker 1: was desperately looking for a fight. So the story of

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Speaker 1: this hunt begins. Um, it's November four. One of my

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Speaker 1: po staff guys, Tanner Hartman, and I were headed out

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Speaker 1: to hunt together. It was my turn to film, so

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Speaker 1: I'm in the camera seat. He's hunting. Tyler. Tanner decides

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Speaker 1: he's gonna rattle, so he grabs black racks, starts cracking

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Speaker 1: them together and just mixing, you know. Five yards away,

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Speaker 1: here's this tree. The top of this tree just starts shaking,

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Speaker 1: and Tana and I are just you know, having fits

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Speaker 1: because we can't see what bucket is. It's all honeysuckle

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Speaker 1: and thick and trying to figure out, you know, what

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Speaker 1: the year is this we're hearing over here or seeing

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Speaker 1: this tree shake. And he starts to eating towards us

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Speaker 1: and starts to come clear of the brush, and I

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Speaker 1: can see it's a good tent. Pointer Tanner picks him up,

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Speaker 1: and the buck passed right through the shooting lane that

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Speaker 1: he had before. He really even made a decision whether

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Speaker 1: or I got shooting. He just wasn't sure if it

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Speaker 1: was the buck that was that was old enough. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's just a three year old or a four year

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Speaker 1: old or a five year old. Who is it? And

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Speaker 1: so the buck passes through that shooting lane and goes

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Speaker 1: about seventy yards down the ridge. Um, Tanner, I whispered

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Speaker 1: to Tanner, you know, hit him again with the black

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Speaker 1: racks if you'll turn around. And he cracked the horns together,

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Speaker 1: and I bucked just you know, right on camera, just

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Speaker 1: turned on a dime, came straight back to us, comes

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Speaker 1: right through the same shooting lane and stops. Tanner had

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Speaker 1: no shot at it. Incredibly close to send in an arrow,

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Speaker 1: but he didn't have a shot that he was comfortable

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Speaker 1: with through all the stick stuff. So the buck moves

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Speaker 1: on and the same thing again. Tanner decides, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm wanna see if I can rattle him back. So

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Speaker 1: he grabs the black cracks for the third time, rattles

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Speaker 1: them together, and that buck turned around at about sixty

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Speaker 1: yards and came right back to us. Really really cool,

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Speaker 1: encountered because he stopped at about eleven yards and was

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Speaker 1: just looking all around and looked up into the tree

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Speaker 1: at us, you know, looking at us, looking around, looking

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Speaker 1: the left, looking right, and just completely relaxed, stopping and

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Speaker 1: put a perfect strike on and just just a beautiful

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Speaker 1: shot buckling about fifty yards and chode and the timber

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Speaker 1: and just an amazing, amazing morning to be out in

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Speaker 1: the timber, you know. And uh just just couldn't have

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Speaker 1: been any happier with the waist that could perform for us.

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Speaker 1: Just amazing. On Andy's hunt, which can be seen on

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Speaker 1: the Pursuit Channel in July, he was wearing Sitka's Stratus

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Speaker 1: jacket and pants. If you'd like to create a sick

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Speaker 1: of story of your own, or to learn about Sitka's

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Speaker 1: technical hunting apparel, visit sitka gear dot com. All right

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Speaker 1: here with this now is Kevin Marrow. Welcome to the show. Kevin, Hey,

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Speaker 1: thanks for having me, guys. Yeah. Absolutely, And I want

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Speaker 1: to tell you everyone listening that Dan Johnson just told

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Speaker 1: us that Kevin Merrow is the Cameron Haynes of the

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Speaker 1: traditional archery community. So is that true? Not? It's I'm

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Speaker 1: sure it's posted somewhere, right, I've had to have read

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Speaker 1: it somewhere. I highly doubt that I'm not. I'm not

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Speaker 1: in the shape that Cameron Haynes is, although I try.

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Speaker 1: You know, he's definitely got me and Dan beat, that's

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Speaker 1: for sure. So most people have me beat. Yeah, fair enough.

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Speaker 1: So Kevin, you know, we briefly introduced you at the

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Speaker 1: top of the show, but um, can you give us

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Speaker 1: a quick lowdown? Who you are, what you do? Um,

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Speaker 1: what you do in the white tailed world? Which you

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Speaker 1: think about all this dear stuff? Yeah? Absolutely, Well, first off,

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Speaker 1: as they said, my name is Kevin Marrow Um from

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Speaker 1: western Pennsylvania, specifically punk Satawny, Pennsylvania. It's the home of

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Speaker 1: the groundhog. Unfortunately, that's what but that's what puts us

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Speaker 1: on the map. I guess born and raised here, lived

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Speaker 1: here all my life. Um a chiropractor by profession, and

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Speaker 1: on the side, I run a small business for the

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Speaker 1: industry trad geeks dot com that it's basically around traditional archery.

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Speaker 1: Grew up hunting here in Pennsylvania with my father just

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Speaker 1: eager to get into the woods at a young age.

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Speaker 1: Primarily grew up rifle hunting until around sixteen. My dad

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Speaker 1: never archery hunted, but I felt that riful season didn't

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Speaker 1: give me enough time in the woods so that that

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Speaker 1: kind of drew my interest into archery. Learned learned pretty

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Speaker 1: much everything on my own and hunted with a compound

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Speaker 1: for for all those years up until like six or

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Speaker 1: seven years ago, and I made the transition into traditional archery. Um.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, you know, white tell us primarily what we

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Speaker 1: hunt here in Pennsylvania, small private parcels primarily, and the

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Speaker 1: deer don't get like they do in Iowa. Um, but

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Speaker 1: they're still you can still get some, you know, good

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Speaker 1: deer here in the States. So that's about it. So

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Speaker 1: so I feel like if there's any other state that

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Speaker 1: can relate to Michigan, I feel like Pennsylvania is the

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Speaker 1: one for for a couple of reasons. Number one, and

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Speaker 1: you're gonna have to correct me on all this if

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Speaker 1: I'm wrong, But from everything I see and read, Pennsylvania

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Speaker 1: matches Michigan when it comes to hunting pressure and participation,

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Speaker 1: tremendous number of hunters. And then number two, it matches

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Speaker 1: Michigan as far as tradition. There's a really, really, really

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Speaker 1: strong tradition of deer hunters and deer hunting in Michigan.

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Speaker 1: And my uncle grew up in Pennsylvania, And he has

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Speaker 1: a deer camp back in p A And I've gone

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Speaker 1: there and visited and hunted with him a couple of

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Speaker 1: times way back in the day. And from everything I

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Speaker 1: gather from there and from that situation, it seems like

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Speaker 1: Pennsylvania is a very similar culture and tradition there. Is

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Speaker 1: that true? Do you guys have a really unique strong

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Speaker 1: culture there in tradition when it comes to white tails? Oh? Yeah, absolutely, Uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, primarily I would. I would call it, you know,

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Speaker 1: we call it the Orange Army, and and there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of small, small camps and and guys get together

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Speaker 1: for rifle season and and hunt with pushing deer and

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Speaker 1: driving deer on small small parcels. Um. But yeah, absolutely

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Speaker 1: I would. I would relate it to Michigan and New

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Speaker 1: York rather closely. Um. You know me specifically, I didn't

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Speaker 1: come from a big family of a lot of hunters.

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Speaker 1: It was primarily my dad and my brother and I

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Speaker 1: going out together. But yeah, that it sounds very similar

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Speaker 1: to Michigan and uh, Upper New York, but yeah, and

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Speaker 1: very different from Iowa. Absolutely, although I haven't made it

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Speaker 1: to Iowa. Um, you know, I have hunted a little

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Speaker 1: bit um and scouted in Ohio a little bit like

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Speaker 1: in areas like that, but not like Iowa. I was

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Speaker 1: going to say this to the end of the episode,

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Speaker 1: but I just can't hold it in anymore. We have

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Speaker 1: a special surprise for you today, Kevin. You have been

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Speaker 1: given full access to Dan's hunting properties in Iowa, full rain.

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Speaker 1: I can hear you, guys. I'm pretty sure Dan already

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Speaker 1: gave me the invite. He said, just get a tag

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Speaker 1: and get out here. But I have not even I

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Speaker 1: don't even tell that. I wouldn't tell that to my wife. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you get a hold onto that, your hunting holding. That's funny.

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Speaker 1: But p a deer hunting Tell me a little bit

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Speaker 1: about what the deer like there, um and, and let's

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Speaker 1: talk a little bit about the differences here, because you know,

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Speaker 1: most often we've got guys here on the podcast who

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Speaker 1: are hunting Iowa or Illinois or Kansas or Ohio. Um.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people chase deer like that. A lot

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Speaker 1: of people talk about deer in those areas. Not as

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Speaker 1: many people talk about, you know, spots like Michigan or Pennsylvania. UM,

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Speaker 1: So just tell us a little bit. Can you tell

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Speaker 1: us a little bit about what the deer. I don't

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Speaker 1: know what what's it like there? How is it different

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Speaker 1: than some of the things we see on TV? I

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Speaker 1: would I would say it's definitely different, primarily because of

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Speaker 1: the small part souls and the pressure pressure being number one. Uh,

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Speaker 1: there's so many hunters in the woods compared to you

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Speaker 1: know out west or in Iowa. I would assume, I

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Speaker 1: don't know the numbers are all the statistics, but the

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Speaker 1: pressure is super high and the parcels are small. I

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Speaker 1: grew up hunting, uh, you know, very rural areas like

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Speaker 1: close to towns um and a lot of just you

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Speaker 1: know population. So for me, I grew up hunting really

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Speaker 1: small parcels that it took more of. These deer are

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Speaker 1: hard to pattern because they're always getting bumped by people

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Speaker 1: or traffic or whatever the case. Maybe now you can

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Speaker 1: find bigger parcels and big you know, state game lands

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Speaker 1: here in Pennsylvania, microphone, but yeah, it's it's harder, harder

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Speaker 1: to have success in those areas, just like anywhere else.

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Speaker 1: So I've stuck to little, little parcels and been successful

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Speaker 1: um on those areas. So you can't pattern pattern um

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Speaker 1: as well. It's primarily just you know, sent control and

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Speaker 1: setting up on heavy trails and hoping for the best.

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Speaker 1: Um Since then, you know, and that was kind of

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Speaker 1: growing up. Since then, I've been fortunate enough to purchase

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Speaker 1: my own property and and lease a property next to that.

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Speaker 1: So now I have a hundred and thirty acres and

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Speaker 1: I can start to do a little more quality deer

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Speaker 1: management with that, food plots and hinge cutting and and

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Speaker 1: kind of creating a scenario that it's going to work

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Speaker 1: for me with that. With that set around that hundred

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Speaker 1: and thirty acres, I have a lot of Amish. So

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Speaker 1: the Amish here in Pennsylvania don't like to follow the laws.

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Speaker 1: They don't pay attention to trespassing signs or anything like that. So,

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Speaker 1: you know, the first few years, I spent a lot

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Speaker 1: of time just getting to know the community and and

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Speaker 1: getting them know where I stand with everything. So it's

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Speaker 1: kind of calmed down now, but it's really hard to

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Speaker 1: even do you know what you see these other guys

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Speaker 1: doing with management. Because of that situation, the deer here

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Speaker 1: are getting poached a lot, so there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: pressure from the Amish on the rids. So what you

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Speaker 1: find is the deer are very skittish, and you know

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Speaker 1: they do not tolerate any pressure whatsoever. So last year

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Speaker 1: I had a a nice buck, you know, probably in

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Speaker 1: Pennsylvania that's a really you know, acceptable deer. Um had

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Speaker 1: him patterned on my property, my new property, and it

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Speaker 1: was getting trail camp pictures of him every morning. Was

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Speaker 1: waiting for the right wind to go in and kill

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Speaker 1: him because I knew exactly where he was betting, and uh,

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Speaker 1: I waited. I think it was like the second or

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Speaker 1: third week of archery season when I got that northwest wind.

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Speaker 1: It was a crazy year. We had a lot of

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Speaker 1: southeast winds the first couple of weeks, if I recall correctly.

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Speaker 1: And so anyways, I waited for that right wind went

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Speaker 1: in to kill him, and he never showed up. And

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Speaker 1: you know, I listened to your podcast, you know, all

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Speaker 1: the time and things that Dan in Fold has said.

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Speaker 1: I really like to try to follow his his mindset

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Speaker 1: because I think it's a cool way of hunting. He

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Speaker 1: didn't show up, and I just knew it was wrong.

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Speaker 1: I knew something was wrong. I should have seen him. Well,

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Speaker 1: Luckily I had a camera set up in that betting

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Speaker 1: area for a couple of months that I never went

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Speaker 1: to check, so I I just said hack with it,

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Speaker 1: and I went and checked it, and sure enough a boy,

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Speaker 1: an Amish boy and two dogs went down through the property. Um,

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Speaker 1: a couple of days prior to me hunting it, this

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Speaker 1: this barn burnt down over the hill from my property,

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Speaker 1: so that Amish were using my property to cut back

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Speaker 1: and forth to help rebuild this barn, and he was

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Speaker 1: bumped in. I have v l a eyes on him

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Speaker 1: since then. But you know, things like that are happening

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Speaker 1: all the time here, which you know, I know that

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Speaker 1: happens in other places. But uh, the big thing is

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Speaker 1: they do not tolerate the pressure in Pennsylvania like I.

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Speaker 1: I think they maybe tolerate more other places. UM, I

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Speaker 1: know this isn't I don't know if this is the

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Speaker 1: direction that we're we want to go with this, But

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Speaker 1: I've heard similar things said about those people, you know,

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Speaker 1: by others. Right, So what happens when you go and

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Speaker 1: you try to confront them or you talk with them about, hey,

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Speaker 1: do not go on my property, you know, do not

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Speaker 1: you know, please don't do it. You know, you probably

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Speaker 1: start off nice. What's what's their reaction? Like, Well, I

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Speaker 1: did a lot of investigating with other people that ran

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Speaker 1: into this issue here in Pennsylvania and what what the

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Speaker 1: best approach was to take. UM. What I found is

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Speaker 1: they don't really care about the loss. So if you

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Speaker 1: call the state police and have them knock on their door,

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Speaker 1: they'll just pay the fine. They don't worry about it

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Speaker 1: too much. They feel that any dear is their dear

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Speaker 1: and they have the right to go anywhere to hunt it,

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Speaker 1: so they don't follow the laws one UM. So I

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Speaker 1: didn't want to take that approach. The first proach I took, obviously,

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Speaker 1: was confronting them, telling them nicely to stay off the property.

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Speaker 1: If they didn't want to listen to that, I would

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Speaker 1: take the next approach. So I did the first approach.

426
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,080
Speaker 1: They didn't listen. I caught him a second time on

427
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:42,040
Speaker 1: a cone hunting in the middle of the night. I

428
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:46,120
Speaker 1: ran them down all my quad and caught a handful

429
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 1: of them, probably eight different amish that night UM and

430
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:55,199
Speaker 1: told them once again sternly to stay off. And that

431
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 1: didn't work either. So I came up with kind of

432
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 1: a a different approach, you know, thinking outside the box.

433
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 1: How can I work this in my favor? So I

434
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:10,920
Speaker 1: started treating the Amish professionally as a chiropractor in the

435
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 1: community out of a little like tax shop, you know,

436
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,280
Speaker 1: they sell you know, all kinds of goods and foods.

437
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,399
Speaker 1: So I'd go in there on my Tuesday nights after

438
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:27,399
Speaker 1: work and treat the Amish only to get to know them. Um.

439
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:30,919
Speaker 1: I got some financial kickbacks with that, and and my

440
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,160
Speaker 1: main thing was to get to know everybody in the community.

441
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:38,440
Speaker 1: And very quickly I got to know uh, they forget

442
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,880
Speaker 1: what they call him, but the head guy of the

443
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 1: the Amish um pretty much is the law in that community,

444
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,959
Speaker 1: so they do respect them. And I got to know

445
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 1: him very well and told him what was going on.

446
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:54,360
Speaker 1: The big thing is the Amish don't like to get

447
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 1: their pictures taken. They say it like affects their soul

448
00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 1: or something. So I saved all my truckh and photos

449
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:03,560
Speaker 1: of them and took him to the head guy and

450
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 1: he told me exactly who it was. And through that

451
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 1: connection and getting to know the community, M very well

452
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:15,399
Speaker 1: respected now in the community. So it was kind of

453
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 1: a different way I had to approach it. But the law,

454
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 1: like going to the state police and stuff like that

455
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:24,360
Speaker 1: didn't seem to affect what they wanted. To do at all.

456
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:29,920
Speaker 1: Any issues since then, now I haven't that I'm aware of,

457
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:34,440
Speaker 1: you know, Um I did. There was without one issue

458
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:37,400
Speaker 1: where it was the most important. One is when they

459
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 1: that young boy went through the property with the dogs,

460
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:42,639
Speaker 1: um and he was just they were just kind of

461
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 1: using it as a shortcut to help build that barn

462
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 1: at that time. Uh you know. So now I catch

463
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 1: them walking around and walking the rids, but just that

464
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 1: one time, and he was a he was a young kid.

465
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 1: He's probably twelve years old, you know. So there's not

466
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,680
Speaker 1: much I can do there other than I did approach

467
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,400
Speaker 1: his parents and and they're aware of the situation. But

468
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 1: it seems to have been a lot better. And I

469
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,480
Speaker 1: didn't catch anyone hunting on the property this year, which

470
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 1: the year before I had all kinds of problems. So wow,

471
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,360
Speaker 1: that's really interesting, and I think it's a it's a

472
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:20,720
Speaker 1: great example I think of even something that would be

473
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,680
Speaker 1: helpful outside of a situation like this with the Amish community,

474
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,879
Speaker 1: but really any community. Sometimes it does come down in

475
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 1: relationships and just trying to establish some level of like

476
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:37,360
Speaker 1: mutual respect, and sometimes that's more impactful than the law. Yeah, absolutely,

477
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:41,400
Speaker 1: I mean, especially in that and it's all situational and

478
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 1: getting a good read on it. I have another neighbor

479
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:47,359
Speaker 1: that was he kind of thought the property was his

480
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 1: for years and we had to get through some surveying

481
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 1: and stuff like that, and he was disrespecting my signs

482
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 1: with quads and everything else, and I had to get

483
00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 1: a law on him. Two or three times the state

484
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 1: police are called to his house. And ever since the

485
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 1: survey and everything was done, I haven't had any issues

486
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:07,919
Speaker 1: with him either. But um, you know, it's kind of

487
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 1: a small We live way back in the woods, probably

488
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:12,439
Speaker 1: a quarter mile back in the woods off of a

489
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 1: dirt road is my house. So they had this camp

490
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:19,480
Speaker 1: on the back side of my property that I I

491
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 1: could only see it if I went up over the

492
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:26,679
Speaker 1: ridge and uh he he would just say it's his

493
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:28,959
Speaker 1: property and come on it without any regards to what

494
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 1: I wanted to do. So with that instance, you couldn't

495
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 1: even have a good conversation with him. It was just

496
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:37,920
Speaker 1: that's what you had to do. That was your only option.

497
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 1: But I want to play Devil's advocate for a second.

498
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 1: That you are giving up your time, you know, and

499
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:49,719
Speaker 1: I know you said you got some financial kickback, but

500
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 1: whether you want to do it or not. Yes, you're

501
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 1: you're you're going in there and you're in you're you know,

502
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 1: setting up ties with their community, which is what you

503
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 1: had to do. But you shouldn't have to do that.

504
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 1: In my opinion, it's your property. You should be able

505
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 1: to do whatever you want on it, and if that

506
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 1: means keep a certain group of people or anybody out

507
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 1: of it for that matter, you should. That should be

508
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 1: your right as an American taxpayer. Yeah. Absolutely, And for

509
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 1: whatever reason in this area, the state police just the

510
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 1: Amish in my eyes, and I could be wrong, but

511
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 1: they just don't seem to want to mess with them.

512
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 1: And that's even poaching. A lot of people in the

513
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 1: neighborhood have called in the game commission to try to

514
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 1: come out and catch them poaching. Um, but there are

515
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 1: the Amish community is strange. There are good people in it,

516
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 1: just like us, but then you got the bad ones

517
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 1: just like us also, and and they like they're sneaky

518
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 1: as you can be. I mean, it's not unlikely for

519
00:29:56,120 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 1: me to go home, um after podcasting or something late

520
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 1: two or three in the morning and they're out on

521
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 1: their buggies just strolling around in the middle of the night.

522
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 1: It's like they have nothing better to do. They don't

523
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 1: have TV, they don't they don't do anything. So the

524
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 1: kids go out and shoot deer for fun. Um. You know,

525
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 1: it sucks, but that's just the way it is. So unfortunately, Yeah, Dan,

526
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 1: I had to go out of my way to make

527
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 1: sure that I, you know, could have the hunting that

528
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 1: I have for myself, my kids or whatever. But didn't

529
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 1: you Mark, didn't you have something where you live? Guys

530
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 1: shooting from the road or maybe I'm mistaken. A while back,

531
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 1: I didn't have anything specific. There's definitely been a lot

532
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 1: of rumors of that kind of thing happening, um, but

533
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 1: I don't have There wasn't like a specific deer I

534
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 1: was after or something like that, and I have I

535
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 1: haven't caught anyone doing it on the farms that I

536
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 1: hunt around here. Um. There is a large amage community

537
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:56,960
Speaker 1: around here, so I never really thought about that, but

538
00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 1: that certainly could be UM. And don't want to pre

539
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 1: judge anyone around here at all, But because it's not

540
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 1: just Amish, everybody can do it. We've got a guy

541
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 1: next to where I, uh, where I hunt, who's been busted.

542
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 1: I'm not joking. Probably ten fifteen times for poaching illegal

543
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:19,959
Speaker 1: activities uh as far as dear game or game violations,

544
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 1: trust passing, whatnot. And they're not going to take you

545
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 1: to jail for that kind of stuff. They're gonna find

546
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 1: you and they're gonna take away your license. But that

547
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 1: only works so much, you know if they continue to

548
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 1: do it. Okay, pay the fine. Okay, I'll pay the fine,

549
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:36,280
Speaker 1: pay the fine, pay Okay, you can't hunt anymore. Okay, Well,

550
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 1: I guess I'll just pay the fine if you bust

551
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 1: me again. Yeah, And that's that's the approach they take. Uh.

552
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 1: They don't have to worry about driver's lace and you know,

553
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 1: they don't have to really worry about anything because they

554
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 1: don't they don't have that stuff. So it's just the

555
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 1: fine and there. They're pretty wealthy around our area. Um.

556
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 1: But you know, and another thing they do is like

557
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:01,240
Speaker 1: any pond or lake in our area of good luck

558
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:02,960
Speaker 1: trying to catch a fish in it, because they'll go

559
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 1: in the middle of the night and take all the

560
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 1: fish out to who you know. That's just the stuff

561
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 1: they do. Um. But yeah, talk about that forever. Well.

562
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 1: I had a really nice Almish family helped me renovate

563
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 1: my barn. So yeah, there's that. It's not necessarily like

564
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 1: I said, it's not necessarily Amish, right and it And

565
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 1: like I said, there's there's great ones too. I have

566
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 1: relationships with other Amish that I actually get to their

567
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 1: house and treat them. A lot of my patients are Amish.

568
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 1: I have good relationships with them. But there's there's a

569
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 1: select few that that just ruin it or give it's

570
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 1: just like anything else, to give them a bad name

571
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 1: or a bad rapp But it would happen if you

572
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 1: went onto their property. I don't know. I honestly don't know.

573
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:58,560
Speaker 1: I did have one Amish guy. He was walking up

574
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:01,479
Speaker 1: on my property her rifle hunt and I was on

575
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 1: my way to work and I just stopped along the

576
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 1: side of the road and said, what are you doing

577
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 1: And he said, I'm going in here to hunt. I said, well,

578
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 1: this is posted property. It's it's my property and I

579
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 1: don't allow anyone on it to hunt. And he said,

580
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 1: well what about second season? I said, no, no hunting whatsoever.

581
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 1: And he said, well, we better not catch you on

582
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 1: anybody else's property if you're if you're posting property, you're

583
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 1: not allowed hunting. On anybody else's property. And I said, well,

584
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 1: I will be just hunting on my property. However, if

585
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 1: I have permission to hunt on someone else's property, I

586
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 1: will be there. And they they're, you know, they're throwing

587
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 1: a big up for war because they don't have any

588
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:39,960
Speaker 1: property to hunt anymore. So a lot of times they

589
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 1: purchased property that's all field, not not woods or standing timber,

590
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 1: so they don't have any property close by to hunt,

591
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 1: and they get they get frustrated, which I understand that.

592
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 1: You know, but if you want to kill a mature

593
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 1: deer in Pennsylvania on a regular basis, you have to

594
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 1: either post your property or have a good piece of

595
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 1: property that is private too hot. So so let's talk

596
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:09,279
Speaker 1: about that. Um, how how the whole process of you

597
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:11,239
Speaker 1: buying this piece of ground go? Because it sounds like

598
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:13,799
Speaker 1: that's something that happened fairly recently. And then i'd love

599
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 1: to hear about, you know, what that property was like

600
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 1: when you purchased it, and then you you mentioned you've

601
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:20,560
Speaker 1: been making some changes to it, so I'd be curious

602
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 1: to hear what you've done so far. Well, I purchased

603
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 1: this property two years ago. Um, Luckily it was a

604
00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 1: family friend that owned seventy four acres and he was

605
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:37,839
Speaker 1: looking to subdivide. There was an old farmhouse an old

606
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,360
Speaker 1: homestead on it that I was interested in, so he

607
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 1: subdivided it to me, and I bought thirty acres in

608
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:48,360
Speaker 1: the old homestead, and then next to me there was

609
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:52,760
Speaker 1: a fifty acre piece that was there was no homes

610
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 1: on it or anything like that. He the guy basically

611
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 1: bought it for timber rights and it was vacant. So

612
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 1: a lot of the Amish were hunting that property because

613
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:05,240
Speaker 1: it wasn't posted. And I had access to my thirty

614
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 1: acres and the other or forty three acres whatever it

615
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:14,360
Speaker 1: was UM that the other guy owned that I bought

616
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,319
Speaker 1: off of, so I had the permission to post all

617
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:21,359
Speaker 1: of that property UM from myself. When we first got there,

618
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:26,280
Speaker 1: the population was pretty low due to how much pressure

619
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 1: it was was on the property because it was never

620
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:34,840
Speaker 1: posted and anyone could hunt it, so the population was low. UM.

621
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 1: It's all standing hardwoods, not a lot of thick cover,

622
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:42,120
Speaker 1: but it it has a lot of really good potential

623
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 1: on the top of looking at a topos so UM

624
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:48,880
Speaker 1: a lot of good pinch points and funnels and and

625
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:52,399
Speaker 1: talking with people around the area. A lot of deer

626
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 1: were killed off that hillside there. Um. Some of the

627
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 1: property next to me has been managed for quite a

628
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:02,400
Speaker 1: few years, so there was I knew there was potential

629
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 1: in and there was a lot of good deer around.

630
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:09,799
Speaker 1: So what I did initially, Uh, I talked with my

631
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:13,800
Speaker 1: good friend Mike Groman. Mike is from that area. And

632
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:16,800
Speaker 1: when I talked to him and told him I I

633
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 1: bought this property, I told him who I bought off of,

634
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:22,840
Speaker 1: and he goes, Kevin, I've hunted that property all my life.

635
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 1: I know exactly where you need to have stands, everything

636
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 1: you need to do. And actually this hunter, you know,

637
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:34,719
Speaker 1: Mike is a very good hunter, perfectionist um. And and

638
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:38,399
Speaker 1: we have we have a mutual friend, Nick Penzado. He's

639
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 1: the president of CEO. So Mike, Mike Growman and Nick

640
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 1: Penezata grew up together. They're best friends. So Mike Groman

641
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 1: as a level two dear stewart ISTUM, so that you know,

642
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:53,920
Speaker 1: it was just like perfect for me knowing that what

643
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:56,440
Speaker 1: he knew and him being a level two dear stewartist

644
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 1: and Nick and all the connections, I was like, all right,

645
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 1: this is is great. You need to come out to

646
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 1: the property, Mike and show me what I need to know.

647
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 1: So he came out and kind of set up like

648
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 1: a five year plan for me of where I need

649
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:13,160
Speaker 1: to start creating cover, putting in food plots and such.

650
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 1: So so far, all I've done is has opened up

651
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 1: some areas that were already there and and put in

652
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:24,800
Speaker 1: some brassicus and clover and planted those and and managed

653
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 1: the property so patrolled the area. UM, not worried about

654
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 1: my success, just trying to get the property under my

655
00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:36,719
Speaker 1: control and keeping people off of it because there, you know,

656
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:42,479
Speaker 1: the deer were just not there. Um. So after doing

657
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 1: that the first year, I started to gather information from

658
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 1: my neighboring properties that were managing deer and trying to

659
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 1: figure out what they had that I didn't have. Um.

660
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 1: And the one thing that they had more than I

661
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 1: had was cover. They had so much cover it there's

662
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:04,160
Speaker 1: no reason for dear to even beyond my property. Uh.

663
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:07,400
Speaker 1: So that's where I started with the food plots and

664
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:10,640
Speaker 1: trying to plant stuff that they might not be planning

665
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:14,719
Speaker 1: to catch them in second season or rot on my property.

666
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:18,800
Speaker 1: It's really not that far. It's quarter mile, not even

667
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 1: to where this main area is at that they like

668
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:25,880
Speaker 1: to bed. So I got permission and they let me

669
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:27,880
Speaker 1: shed hunt that piece, and I went in there and

670
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:31,480
Speaker 1: picked up quite a few nice sheds off the neighboring property.

671
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:34,320
Speaker 1: So I knew they were staying there primarily, but during

672
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:37,239
Speaker 1: pre rot and rode out get pictures of them, you know,

673
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 1: coming through my property. So my focus right now is

674
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:47,480
Speaker 1: creating a few cover areas, embedding areas where h you

675
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 1: know too, I have two groups of dough on my property. Um,

676
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:54,399
Speaker 1: so I created those areas where these deer already liked

677
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 1: to bed and and just made them thicker, trying to

678
00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:01,359
Speaker 1: keep them, you know, in a a good area. So

679
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 1: when those bucks do wanna when those five years or

680
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 1: three year olds or four year olds do want to

681
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:09,799
Speaker 1: come off of the neighboring properties, I know where my

682
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 1: doughbeds are, and I know what those bucks are going

683
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:16,480
Speaker 1: to be potentially doing to uh, to get with those doughes.

684
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 1: So that's kind of my focus so far is in

685
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:25,319
Speaker 1: the first two years is little baby steps. Um. The

686
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 1: one thing Mike told me when I first started this,

687
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:29,640
Speaker 1: He's like, it's a long process. You're not going to

688
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:32,480
Speaker 1: benefit it from it, but your son, Finn will and

689
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:34,880
Speaker 1: and he's right, you know, I'm seeing slow improvements in

690
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:39,479
Speaker 1: the numbers are up, the deer numbers are up. But um,

691
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:42,319
Speaker 1: I'm just enjoying the management side of things. And if

692
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 1: I end up shooting a nice dear due to my efforts,

693
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:48,680
Speaker 1: so be it. But hopefully in the years to come,

694
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:51,359
Speaker 1: Finn will have a lot more success than I've had.

695
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 1: What kind of have you seen any changes in this

696
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:58,400
Speaker 1: so you've been doing two years? Yeah, so is there

697
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:04,359
Speaker 1: anything noticeably different, anything you can point to the other

698
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 1: than the deer numbers being up because of patrolling my property,

699
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:14,439
Speaker 1: not too much. So. The other issue that I ran

700
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:17,440
Speaker 1: into is on my thirty acres, we have our homestead

701
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 1: and that the homestead set vacant for two and a

702
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:23,359
Speaker 1: half years, so there was no activity. And then even

703
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:26,560
Speaker 1: prior to that, the lady that lived there was older

704
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:29,799
Speaker 1: and she didn't spend a lot of time outside and

705
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:32,120
Speaker 1: didn't have any animals in it or anything like that.

706
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 1: So when we bought the house, you know, we have

707
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:37,920
Speaker 1: two young kids running around, We have a German shorthair

708
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:41,240
Speaker 1: that loves to run around, We have goods, we have chickens,

709
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:44,239
Speaker 1: you know, so there's a lot of activity. So initially,

710
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:47,160
Speaker 1: you know, I I knew that it was going to

711
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 1: take the deer a while to get accustomed to our

712
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 1: presence there um. So if anything, you know, the numbers

713
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:57,279
Speaker 1: have been up and the deer slowly adapting to us

714
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:00,960
Speaker 1: being at the house. I had a buck in the

715
00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 1: yard yesterday, and it's the first time I've seen a

716
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 1: buck that close to the house. That Actually, my son

717
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 1: had a soccer ball out in the yard and he

718
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:13,799
Speaker 1: came up and was sniffing the soccer ball. You know. Um,

719
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:16,160
Speaker 1: he's probably only a year and a half year old

720
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:18,759
Speaker 1: or something like that. He wasn't real big, just had

721
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:21,319
Speaker 1: some stubs grown right now, so I couldn't tell, you know,

722
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:24,279
Speaker 1: other than body sides what he was. But that kind

723
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 1: of thing wasn't happening in the first two years. So,

724
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 1: you know, the food plots are close to the house,

725
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:34,840
Speaker 1: the sanctuary areas are rather close due to the size

726
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:39,359
Speaker 1: of the property. So those those little changes I've seen,

727
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:45,120
Speaker 1: but nothing drastic um so far. It sounds pretty cool though,

728
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:48,240
Speaker 1: having a spot like that, your own place right behind

729
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:50,920
Speaker 1: the house and you can kind of start molding it.

730
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:53,080
Speaker 1: That's that's the dream, I mean, that's what I always

731
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:54,880
Speaker 1: dream about when I think about trying to buy some

732
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:58,840
Speaker 1: land in my own just the ability to make be

733
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 1: able to make those change as you want where you

734
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:03,799
Speaker 1: want them, the ability to you know, to have a

735
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:08,279
Speaker 1: blank canvas that you can paint on. Yeah, that's that's

736
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:11,520
Speaker 1: really cool. What's the food look like? I mean, are

737
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:14,960
Speaker 1: you gonna plan on putting any food plots in? Yeah?

738
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:20,880
Speaker 1: I've put in three food plots now, um Brassicus and

739
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:23,760
Speaker 1: turn ups the past couple of years. And it's almost

740
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:26,920
Speaker 1: like the deer still trying to develop a palette for that,

741
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:29,640
Speaker 1: if if they even do that, because they haven't really

742
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 1: messed with it too much. And then some white clover

743
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:35,800
Speaker 1: and you know, and and red clover, which they really

744
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:39,760
Speaker 1: enjoy right now. So those do well through the summer months.

745
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:43,640
Speaker 1: But uh, you know, I was really hoping for good

746
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:47,279
Speaker 1: things this year, but the acorns were so prominent this

747
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:50,880
Speaker 1: year that they just didn't have the need to travel

748
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:55,239
Speaker 1: for food. They were everywhere. Um but like you know,

749
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:57,840
Speaker 1: back to what you said, Mark that that's what I

750
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 1: enjoyed the most out of it. And it's the little things.

751
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:03,320
Speaker 1: So if you're you want to start doing this or

752
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 1: by a small parcel. It's it's hard to not get

753
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:09,440
Speaker 1: frustrated with all the things like the amish or the

754
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:14,440
Speaker 1: intruders and not seeing quick changes. But it's the little things. Uh.

755
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:16,960
Speaker 1: For instance, my son and I were down kind of

756
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 1: digging a little water hole below the food plot last

757
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:24,719
Speaker 1: year and uh, my my short hair was down with us,

758
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 1: and she came flying through the woods with a shed

759
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 1: and it was just a little spike shed, but we

760
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:31,880
Speaker 1: were so excited to find a shed that close to

761
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 1: the house. Um, after all our hard work, you know,

762
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:39,000
Speaker 1: and little things like that. And and this year, I

763
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:42,880
Speaker 1: shot a buck on the first day a rifle season

764
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 1: with my recurb and I thought he was older than

765
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:49,600
Speaker 1: what he was and he was still in rout when

766
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:53,359
Speaker 1: he was pushing a dough down past my stand, and

767
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:56,719
Speaker 1: it was a quick decision. I shouldn't have shot him,

768
00:43:56,719 --> 00:44:00,440
Speaker 1: but I did. And uh, I'm I'm I'm happy that

769
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:04,880
Speaker 1: I got him on my property that close to the house. Uh.

770
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:08,239
Speaker 1: It's just it adds so much to the hunt when

771
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:12,800
Speaker 1: you when you do all the other things throughout the year, um,

772
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 1: you know three so oh yeah, was that the first

773
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 1: year you've killed on the property, on my property? That

774
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:22,719
Speaker 1: was the second, dear, because I did take a doll

775
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:29,319
Speaker 1: early season with my bill. Also very cool now I

776
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 1: saw I didn't actually get to listen to the podcast

777
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:34,680
Speaker 1: of yours a little bit. I get to listen to

778
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:36,359
Speaker 1: a little bit. But there was an episode you had

779
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:41,439
Speaker 1: a while back about the Niner Buck. Yeah, that's that's

780
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 1: a buck you shot in two thousand fifteen. Is that correct?

781
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:49,319
Speaker 1: Two thousand and fifteen, Yes, that was the That was

782
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:51,480
Speaker 1: the year that she shot that buck. That was a

783
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:56,080
Speaker 1: cool looking buck. Could you tell us that story? Yeah, absolutely, Um,

784
00:44:56,680 --> 00:45:00,440
Speaker 1: the Niner Buck was a buck that my father was

785
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:06,239
Speaker 1: getting on trail camera, uh, through the through the pre

786
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:10,239
Speaker 1: rut and when where my dad lives, it's almost in

787
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:12,719
Speaker 1: the city limits, but it's outside the city limits. So

788
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:16,759
Speaker 1: that's where I grew up hunting. And uh, we've we've

789
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:20,040
Speaker 1: shot a quite a few nice bucks out of this

790
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:24,400
Speaker 1: particular little piece. And he was getting trail camp pictures

791
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 1: of this deer and and my dad nicknamed him Niner

792
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:30,840
Speaker 1: and he hunted him pretty much all year. And I

793
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:36,160
Speaker 1: wanted to stay on my property and hunt just because

794
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 1: I had it, and I was putting so much time

795
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:39,879
Speaker 1: into it, so I didn't really want to leave and

796
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:41,959
Speaker 1: and Dad kept saying, why why don't you come hunt

797
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:43,440
Speaker 1: this buck? Why don't you come hunt this buck? And

798
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 1: it's close to my work, and I could hit it

799
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 1: up in the mornings if I wanted to. And I said,

800
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:50,879
Speaker 1: now you get it, you get it. And Dad didn't

801
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:53,000
Speaker 1: want to move his stand and he was in the

802
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:55,640
Speaker 1: same spot, and I said, you need to be, you know,

803
00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:59,279
Speaker 1: two yards east of where you're at, and you need

804
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:01,640
Speaker 1: to be in this and that I've killed some other

805
00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:04,920
Speaker 1: deer out him. I'm good where I'm at, and he did.

806
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:07,360
Speaker 1: We just kept playing that game back and forth, and

807
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:10,480
Speaker 1: finally the one morning it was there was a nice

808
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:15,360
Speaker 1: cold front coming through, and I messaged Mark, my buddy,

809
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:16,800
Speaker 1: and I said, hey, you want to come film me

810
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:19,640
Speaker 1: in the morning. I said, you can shoot any buck

811
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:22,600
Speaker 1: you want. And Mark, Mark's a that type of hunter

812
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:25,399
Speaker 1: that if it's legal, he's going to kill it um.

813
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 1: And in Pennsylvania we have point restrictions, so in this

814
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:33,320
Speaker 1: particular unit, it has to have three on one side,

815
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:37,319
Speaker 1: so two up in a brow. And so I told him,

816
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:39,319
Speaker 1: I said, you come film me, but if this one

817
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:42,239
Speaker 1: buck comes through, I want to shoot this buck. He

818
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:46,160
Speaker 1: said okay, And I was running film because I didn't

819
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:49,200
Speaker 1: expect to see him, and we saw six or seven

820
00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:52,000
Speaker 1: bucks that morning, and they all just kept winding us

821
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:54,640
Speaker 1: and working around us. So I thought, we're not going

822
00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:58,439
Speaker 1: to see him. But if a mature deer works through

823
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:02,200
Speaker 1: that area, I knew it would be from around nine

824
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:05,520
Speaker 1: o'clock to ten o'clock for whatever reason, that's that's when

825
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:08,839
Speaker 1: they come through. And and sure enough I heard Mark

826
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:10,959
Speaker 1: whisper to me, big buck, big buck. And I turned

827
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:12,719
Speaker 1: around and this buck was kind of unique. He had

828
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:15,480
Speaker 1: a really long brow brow tyne on the one side.

829
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:18,560
Speaker 1: So I turned around the tree and saw him. I said,

830
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:21,760
Speaker 1: that's him. Well, this deer stopped at like fifteen yards

831
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:24,680
Speaker 1: and trying to Mark. He's like, I could shoot him

832
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:28,879
Speaker 1: right here, and I was like, don't, don't. He said

833
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 1: I won't. So we kind of had to switch rose

834
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:34,760
Speaker 1: real quick, and uh. I ended up getting that deer,

835
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:37,440
Speaker 1: you know, and my dad was in a stand probably

836
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:39,279
Speaker 1: two or three dred yards from me, So it was

837
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:42,319
Speaker 1: a it was a cool experience to to get that

838
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:44,640
Speaker 1: deer and my dad be there and Mark to be there,

839
00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:49,279
Speaker 1: and um, you know that that particular area for us

840
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:53,520
Speaker 1: always seems to do well. Dad shot a nice buck

841
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:55,520
Speaker 1: three and a half year old out of that same

842
00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:59,120
Speaker 1: spot last year, and then I killed one and two

843
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:03,040
Speaker 1: thousand and I think it was two thousand and ten.

844
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,480
Speaker 1: That was a pope and young deer too. So we've

845
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:09,719
Speaker 1: we've shot a lot of good deer out of that

846
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:13,319
Speaker 1: same bottom year in a year out and when we

847
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:16,439
Speaker 1: I just I've hunted it all my life and kind

848
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:18,520
Speaker 1: of got it down to a science where I know

849
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:20,920
Speaker 1: when the mature deer are going to be in that

850
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 1: area and what time, just based off of um the

851
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:31,040
Speaker 1: activity that goes around getting like happens around that area.

852
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:33,520
Speaker 1: It just seems like you're in a year out, within

853
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:36,799
Speaker 1: a within a five to six day span. If you're

854
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:38,319
Speaker 1: in a tree all day, you're going to have an

855
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:42,120
Speaker 1: opportunity at a nice deer. So what what makes that

856
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:44,880
Speaker 1: spot so good? Why do you think that is a

857
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:47,239
Speaker 1: place you can depend on like that? I'm curious, you know,

858
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:49,799
Speaker 1: if there's some kind of topographic feature or terrain or

859
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:53,960
Speaker 1: cover what makes it tick. It's a it's a long

860
00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:59,560
Speaker 1: bottom and it has pinches on both sides. Um so

861
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:03,759
Speaker 1: one just the way that the land lays out there.

862
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:07,360
Speaker 1: It's a creek bottom with pinches on both sides and

863
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:13,920
Speaker 1: the pressure around it. It's significant. The one thing that

864
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:19,040
Speaker 1: I think stands out the most is these deer like

865
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:21,360
Speaker 1: to go down in this bottom in bed during the

866
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:27,320
Speaker 1: day and it's primarily dough groups. So again I'm hunting

867
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:31,799
Speaker 1: dog groups that I know in this time frame that

868
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:33,719
Speaker 1: one of them is going to be hot, and when

869
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:37,960
Speaker 1: she is, these bucks will be cruising this creek bottom

870
00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:42,279
Speaker 1: looking for her, and just the way it pinches out,

871
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:45,600
Speaker 1: they have to come by us. So you know that

872
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:49,000
Speaker 1: if that answers your question mark, yeah, yeah, definitely. Gotta

873
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:52,040
Speaker 1: love a spot like that during the run, Yeah, absolutely.

874
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:55,520
Speaker 1: And you know, like I said, these are small parcels,

875
00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:58,759
Speaker 1: so the deer have to move if they want to

876
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:03,360
Speaker 1: find dough and and they have to move through this points.

877
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:07,000
Speaker 1: You know, that's that's just how that there's just not

878
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:09,759
Speaker 1: enough woods. So we know they're there, and we know

879
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:12,279
Speaker 1: where they spend most of their time throughout the year,

880
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:17,840
Speaker 1: and it's not there. So we literally don't run any cameras,

881
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:20,080
Speaker 1: we don't have to hang any stands, but we know

882
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:22,840
Speaker 1: that if if we're not on anything else, if we

883
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:26,880
Speaker 1: go in there in those six days primarily you know,

884
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:30,000
Speaker 1: the last six days of October, we'll have a good

885
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:34,120
Speaker 1: chance of killing one. So when you mentioned you know

886
00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:38,960
Speaker 1: all these small parcels, are the terrain features on all

887
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:43,800
Speaker 1: these small parcels different or is there a consistency across

888
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:47,359
Speaker 1: the parcels as well? You know, for example, let's say

889
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:49,799
Speaker 1: there's four in a row right. One guy is not

890
00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:52,040
Speaker 1: a farmer, so he just lets it grow out and

891
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 1: you know, or he has like an apple orchard or

892
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:58,280
Speaker 1: something like that, and then all the way from bare

893
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:01,960
Speaker 1: ground that there might be egg on. Is it all

894
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:05,799
Speaker 1: different or does it for the most part all run together. Yeah,

895
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:13,040
Speaker 1: it's all different. It's rolling hills here. Um. Not every

896
00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:16,759
Speaker 1: little small piece of parcel is good. It's finding that

897
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:20,480
Speaker 1: one like we have done where the terrain just adds

898
00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:25,520
Speaker 1: up and I have found that it it's not so

899
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:29,439
Speaker 1: much the food, it's not so much the cover. It's

900
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:35,880
Speaker 1: hunting those dough groups. Um, during that peak period, you know,

901
00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:39,799
Speaker 1: because these deer, because they are so pressured a lot

902
00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:43,680
Speaker 1: of times they're nocturnal. Uh So if they are coming

903
00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:47,200
Speaker 1: to food, they're coming late and you just don't have

904
00:51:47,239 --> 00:51:49,719
Speaker 1: a crack at them, you know. Other than those few

905
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:53,400
Speaker 1: days for instance this year when my dad killed his buck.

906
00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:57,720
Speaker 1: It was a perfect wind, perfect morning, good cold front.

907
00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:01,600
Speaker 1: I unfortunately had to be the early so I slept

908
00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:05,120
Speaker 1: in and that morning my dad, while I was in

909
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:08,800
Speaker 1: the shower, sent me a picture of the deer he killed,

910
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:11,279
Speaker 1: and I looked at it, and then the next thing

911
00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:14,520
Speaker 1: I knew, four or five other pictures came in. So

912
00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:17,880
Speaker 1: all my trad buddies here in Pennsylvania, there was like

913
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:23,080
Speaker 1: five bucks go down that same morning, you know, just

914
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:27,959
Speaker 1: and it that's how it is. It's very hit or miss. Yeah,

915
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:30,440
Speaker 1: dear get killed all the time, but when it's a

916
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:34,480
Speaker 1: good morning, it's just boom boom, boom boom. Because you know,

917
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:36,440
Speaker 1: we had we know how to hunt these small parcels

918
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:40,239
Speaker 1: and if you can find those pinch points. Um, I

919
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:42,759
Speaker 1: just I feel like that's probably where it's at on

920
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:50,680
Speaker 1: the smaller pieces, dan Um, before we before we shift

921
00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:56,400
Speaker 1: towards archery. UM. I know you wanted to to ask

922
00:52:56,880 --> 00:53:01,560
Speaker 1: Kevin a little something about some of the Western adventures. Yeah, man, Um,

923
00:53:01,640 --> 00:53:05,399
Speaker 1: I saw that you went on a um muled your hunt,

924
00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:10,760
Speaker 1: and I believe was it with your father. My father

925
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:13,520
Speaker 1: talk to us a little bit about that trip, how

926
00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:16,799
Speaker 1: you planned it, what your what your goals were, and

927
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:22,840
Speaker 1: and uh tell us that story. Yeah, so, uh, it

928
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:27,040
Speaker 1: was probably four years ago. My good friend asked me

929
00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:29,880
Speaker 1: to that they were going to South Dakota to do

930
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:32,600
Speaker 1: it yourself type of hunt for mule deer over the

931
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:35,839
Speaker 1: counter tags, no points, preference points or anything like that.

932
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:39,759
Speaker 1: And it's a it's a cheap hunt. So if you

933
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:42,400
Speaker 1: get a good group of guys together, you can go

934
00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:45,439
Speaker 1: out there relatively cheap and and hunt mule deer, which

935
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:49,520
Speaker 1: to me sounded awesome. Um. I always wanted to go,

936
00:53:49,719 --> 00:53:51,359
Speaker 1: you know, on a spot and stock type of hunt.

937
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:54,480
Speaker 1: So we went out. The first year, there was eight guys.

938
00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:58,200
Speaker 1: None of us had any success, but we had a blast.

939
00:53:58,239 --> 00:54:01,560
Speaker 1: We saw a lot of deer. Um. I think half

940
00:54:01,560 --> 00:54:04,360
Speaker 1: the guys had traditional bows and half the guys had compounds.

941
00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:09,840
Speaker 1: So after that I was kind of hooked, and I

942
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:13,480
Speaker 1: believe I skipped one year, and then in two thousand

943
00:54:13,560 --> 00:54:16,359
Speaker 1: and when I was two thousand and fifteen, I went

944
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:20,680
Speaker 1: back out with my buddy Mark again. He harvested a

945
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:23,799
Speaker 1: dough out there, dough mule deer, and I missed a

946
00:54:23,920 --> 00:54:27,000
Speaker 1: really good mule deer probably hunter and eight inch mule

947
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:30,320
Speaker 1: deer with my with my stick bough. I just shot

948
00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:31,960
Speaker 1: right under him, and it was a poke. It was

949
00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:36,160
Speaker 1: a far shot, but I got that whole spot stock

950
00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:38,840
Speaker 1: type of thing. I watched him bed down, waded to

951
00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:42,800
Speaker 1: the the sun was high, and and worked in on him,

952
00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:45,359
Speaker 1: and he kind of the wind shifted and he caught

953
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:47,360
Speaker 1: my wind and he was at thirty yards and he

954
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:49,560
Speaker 1: kind of bounced out to like forty five or fifty

955
00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:53,040
Speaker 1: and I took a shot, my only shot, and just

956
00:54:53,360 --> 00:54:56,600
Speaker 1: shot underneath them. So that kind of got me addicted again.

957
00:54:56,640 --> 00:55:00,759
Speaker 1: I was like, I gotta go back out there. Um So,

958
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:04,520
Speaker 1: then last year Dad and I and another friend decided

959
00:55:04,560 --> 00:55:07,440
Speaker 1: to drive back out to South Dakota. Well, we actually

960
00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:12,040
Speaker 1: flew last year and um I went to a new region.

961
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:15,840
Speaker 1: So this is my third third time in the same area,

962
00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:20,800
Speaker 1: which is the Black Hills of South Dakota. Um And

963
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:23,120
Speaker 1: and this year, finally I made it happen and shot

964
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:26,400
Speaker 1: a little forky mule deer and was just as happy

965
00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:27,920
Speaker 1: with him as I would have been with that hu

966
00:55:28,640 --> 00:55:33,280
Speaker 1: mule deer. It's tough hunting. It's not easy, and even

967
00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:37,399
Speaker 1: some of the the big mule deer hunters that killing

968
00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:40,439
Speaker 1: nice mule deer every year. South cox And and Theose

969
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:43,680
Speaker 1: guys have hunted South Dakota for mule deer do it

970
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:47,160
Speaker 1: yourself type of hunting, and And said it's probably one

971
00:55:47,160 --> 00:55:50,520
Speaker 1: of the harder states to get it done. So, yeah,

972
00:55:50,600 --> 00:55:52,719
Speaker 1: this year was the first year out of three that

973
00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:57,320
Speaker 1: I was actually successful with getting one awesome something that

974
00:55:57,320 --> 00:56:01,120
Speaker 1: you're going to continue to do then every year. Yeah, Uh,

975
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:03,960
Speaker 1: this year, I'm skipping the mule deer. I'm actually going

976
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:08,560
Speaker 1: out to Utah. My good friend out there, Matt Davis

977
00:56:08,600 --> 00:56:10,959
Speaker 1: with Mountain Oops and bited me out and we're gonna

978
00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:14,759
Speaker 1: do it over the counter. Elkcont so awesome. I'm going

979
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:17,480
Speaker 1: out the end of August, so it's a really early

980
00:56:17,560 --> 00:56:22,840
Speaker 1: season hunt. Um, and we're gonna primarily hunt uh, spike

981
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:27,359
Speaker 1: only units because they're they're flourished and and cow. So

982
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:30,160
Speaker 1: I'm not even trying to kill a big bull. I

983
00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:33,080
Speaker 1: just want to kill an elk. So get that elk.

984
00:56:33,200 --> 00:56:37,799
Speaker 1: Mute man, It isn't absolutely that's the goal I am.

985
00:56:38,040 --> 00:56:41,000
Speaker 1: I'm missing my elk in the freezer, that's for sure.

986
00:56:42,120 --> 00:56:46,000
Speaker 1: So that's that's awesome. I can totally see why that

987
00:56:46,040 --> 00:56:48,279
Speaker 1: seems appealing that kind of hunt. It seems like an

988
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:51,160
Speaker 1: absolute beautiful area. Every time I've driven through South Dakota

989
00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:53,879
Speaker 1: and the Black Hills, I'm always just like, why don't

990
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:56,239
Speaker 1: I hunt here? I need to hunt here? Um, And

991
00:56:56,600 --> 00:57:00,840
Speaker 1: it's crazy the Black Hills. You know, we hunt primarily

992
00:57:00,920 --> 00:57:05,120
Speaker 1: the burn areas. Uh so you know, big fires went

993
00:57:05,160 --> 00:57:08,120
Speaker 1: through there and they're there's just timber and laying down everywhere.

994
00:57:08,160 --> 00:57:14,640
Speaker 1: So stalking in on on these meal DearS extremely difficult imagine.

995
00:57:15,239 --> 00:57:18,520
Speaker 1: But that's where, that's where they're at. So anybody looking

996
00:57:18,560 --> 00:57:20,840
Speaker 1: to get to South Dakota and hunt Black Hills, get

997
00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:24,440
Speaker 1: to the Burns. Just wait till next time you show up.

998
00:57:27,600 --> 00:57:30,800
Speaker 1: Hey are you? Are you Kevin Man? I heard you

999
00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:35,120
Speaker 1: on the Word Home podcast. Well, I've kind of found

1000
00:57:35,200 --> 00:57:39,240
Speaker 1: I've I've found a few other tricks, so I'm not

1001
00:57:39,280 --> 00:57:43,280
Speaker 1: really hunting the burns anymore. But this is this is

1002
00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:48,800
Speaker 1: this is a diversionary tactic. I understand it's not it's

1003
00:57:48,840 --> 00:57:52,400
Speaker 1: not far from the burns, but yeah, that's the general

1004
00:57:52,480 --> 00:57:56,080
Speaker 1: area the burn areas. Fair enough, fair enough, so so

1005
00:57:56,160 --> 00:57:59,240
Speaker 1: let's let's switch gears here. But first, let's take a

1006
00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:02,200
Speaker 1: quick pause. Are a weekly dose of white Tail wisdom

1007
00:58:02,320 --> 00:58:05,200
Speaker 1: from our friends at white Tail Properties and here is

1008
00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:09,240
Speaker 1: producer Spencer Newharth. This week with white Tail Properties. We

1009
00:58:09,280 --> 00:58:12,040
Speaker 1: are joined by Gabe A. Dare, a land specialist out

1010
00:58:12,040 --> 00:58:14,880
Speaker 1: of southern Iowa, and Gabe is gonna be telling us

1011
00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:17,960
Speaker 1: about what the primary factors are that make for quality

1012
00:58:18,040 --> 00:58:22,640
Speaker 1: hunting ground. You know, there's a there a couple of

1013
00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:26,160
Speaker 1: stick out. I guess the most, Um, I want to

1014
00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:29,200
Speaker 1: be neighborhood. I think you've got to have You've got

1015
00:58:29,200 --> 00:58:32,240
Speaker 1: to have the structure around you. Um. I've even seen,

1016
00:58:33,520 --> 00:58:34,800
Speaker 1: you know, in my line of work, I've seen an

1017
00:58:34,880 --> 00:58:37,920
Speaker 1: enormous farms struggle, you know, and I say enormous, I'm

1018
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:42,760
Speaker 1: talking thousands, fifteen hundred, two thousand maker farms struggle. If

1019
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:47,000
Speaker 1: you don't have structure around you, like minded neighbors, you know,

1020
00:58:47,120 --> 00:58:49,200
Speaker 1: on the same program, at least close to the same program.

1021
00:58:49,240 --> 00:58:52,160
Speaker 1: Everybody's gonna have their differences, of course, but you know, UM,

1022
00:58:52,160 --> 00:58:53,880
Speaker 1: I think you've got to have, you know, the right

1023
00:58:53,960 --> 00:58:56,600
Speaker 1: people around you to really get deer to that up

1024
00:58:56,680 --> 00:58:59,000
Speaker 1: or age class. And so I think that's first and foremost,

1025
00:58:59,520 --> 00:59:01,480
Speaker 1: and then that kind of lead into the second one,

1026
00:59:01,560 --> 00:59:06,560
Speaker 1: where you know, depending on what you're after, Um, you've

1027
00:59:06,560 --> 00:59:08,920
Speaker 1: got to be in the right area as far as genetics,

1028
00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:11,120
Speaker 1: you've gotta be moren't big you're at. You know, if

1029
00:59:11,160 --> 00:59:14,479
Speaker 1: if if you're an area where your your your goal

1030
00:59:14,560 --> 00:59:17,960
Speaker 1: is a shoot hundred five year old buck, obviously there's

1031
00:59:17,960 --> 00:59:20,040
Speaker 1: a lot more places that a guy can get into

1032
00:59:20,080 --> 00:59:23,480
Speaker 1: something like that. But you know, definitely the second one

1033
00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:25,880
Speaker 1: be if you're after top top end. If you know,

1034
00:59:25,880 --> 00:59:28,360
Speaker 1: if everybody's wanting to shoot Bunting Crockett type animals, or

1035
00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:30,800
Speaker 1: even that that new pinnacle that I deal with more

1036
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:32,560
Speaker 1: and more every day is too under you know, I

1037
00:59:33,280 --> 00:59:36,480
Speaker 1: hear about it, deal with it, and see it way more. Um,

1038
00:59:36,520 --> 00:59:38,400
Speaker 1: you know, you've got to be where those animals even

1039
00:59:38,440 --> 00:59:40,840
Speaker 1: have a chance to be. And so you know the

1040
00:59:40,880 --> 00:59:43,680
Speaker 1: two things I would say, and obviously neighborhood structure around

1041
00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:45,920
Speaker 1: your property, and then your property has got to be

1042
00:59:45,920 --> 00:59:48,280
Speaker 1: in an area where it's gonna where it's gonna produce

1043
00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:50,800
Speaker 1: or have at least have a chance to produce what

1044
00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:53,800
Speaker 1: you're wanting to harvest. If you'd like to learn more

1045
00:59:53,880 --> 00:59:56,640
Speaker 1: and to see the properties that Gabe currently has listed

1046
00:59:56,640 --> 01:00:00,600
Speaker 1: for sale, visit white tail properties dot com. Ex slash

1047
01:00:00,680 --> 01:00:04,680
Speaker 1: a dare that's a d A I R. So let's

1048
01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:10,680
Speaker 1: let's switch gears here. Um, because you, Kevin run the

1049
01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:14,440
Speaker 1: trad Geeks podcast and website. Um, so I want to

1050
01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:16,360
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about that because actually we have

1051
01:00:16,480 --> 01:00:20,360
Speaker 1: never talked about traditional archery on the Wired Hunt podcast.

1052
01:00:20,440 --> 01:00:24,160
Speaker 1: I think, ever, wow, Yeah, which surprising given a lot

1053
01:00:24,200 --> 01:00:26,720
Speaker 1: of people are interested in it and I personally, you know,

1054
01:00:27,080 --> 01:00:29,240
Speaker 1: I enjoy shooting my compound, but I know a lot

1055
01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:33,640
Speaker 1: of people you know, have been trying out trad and um,

1056
01:00:33,800 --> 01:00:35,280
Speaker 1: I want to pick your brain about a little bit.

1057
01:00:35,320 --> 01:00:38,080
Speaker 1: So I guess first tell us about real quick, trad Geeks.

1058
01:00:38,080 --> 01:00:42,600
Speaker 1: What are you guys doing there? Well, trad Geeks I

1059
01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:48,880
Speaker 1: started six years ago. Um, I was there was some

1060
01:00:48,920 --> 01:00:54,840
Speaker 1: traditional archery forums that were out there that we're basically

1061
01:00:54,920 --> 01:00:58,800
Speaker 1: geared to the sponsors. So if you had anything negative

1062
01:00:58,880 --> 01:01:02,240
Speaker 1: to say about us sponsor, you got booted off the forums.

1063
01:01:03,120 --> 01:01:07,560
Speaker 1: And that just pissed me off right away. And uh,

1064
01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:11,600
Speaker 1: I thought, well, if you can't get on here and

1065
01:01:11,600 --> 01:01:13,520
Speaker 1: and state how you feel about a company in a

1066
01:01:13,640 --> 01:01:16,000
Speaker 1: nice way or in a positive you know, as good

1067
01:01:16,040 --> 01:01:19,959
Speaker 1: as you could say a negative thing, I guess, um

1068
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:23,480
Speaker 1: without getting blocked or booted, that's not any type of

1069
01:01:23,680 --> 01:01:27,760
Speaker 1: form that I want to belong to, So within two days,

1070
01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:31,800
Speaker 1: I started my own traditional archery forum and it did.

1071
01:01:32,040 --> 01:01:34,040
Speaker 1: It did okay, and we had it was a nice

1072
01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:35,760
Speaker 1: place for my friends and I to get on there

1073
01:01:35,800 --> 01:01:41,480
Speaker 1: and talk about traditional archery. But my mind never stops thinking,

1074
01:01:41,560 --> 01:01:44,560
Speaker 1: So I started creating more and created a blog on

1075
01:01:44,680 --> 01:01:46,960
Speaker 1: top of that, and the blog led into videos and

1076
01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:50,480
Speaker 1: film and and then that led into a podcast. So

1077
01:01:50,520 --> 01:01:53,480
Speaker 1: now you know, tray Geeks is an educational site where

1078
01:01:53,520 --> 01:01:56,080
Speaker 1: you can come on there and and learn how to

1079
01:01:56,720 --> 01:02:05,400
Speaker 1: get into traditional archery UM and also you know, pick

1080
01:02:05,440 --> 01:02:08,520
Speaker 1: our brains. But you know, now it's kind of more

1081
01:02:08,600 --> 01:02:12,280
Speaker 1: switched into a content producing website, So we produce a

1082
01:02:12,280 --> 01:02:17,200
Speaker 1: lot of content for other companies through my website. UM,

1083
01:02:17,240 --> 01:02:20,520
Speaker 1: and now we're we're focused more on producing content and

1084
01:02:20,640 --> 01:02:23,640
Speaker 1: the apparel side of things, so now we sell traditional

1085
01:02:23,720 --> 01:02:27,120
Speaker 1: archery shirts and hats and stuff like that. So more

1086
01:02:27,160 --> 01:02:30,560
Speaker 1: of a brand now, But that's just kind of evolved

1087
01:02:30,560 --> 01:02:33,560
Speaker 1: over time. So if you want to learn about traditional archery,

1088
01:02:33,720 --> 01:02:36,760
Speaker 1: the podcast is where you're going to get the education.

1089
01:02:37,880 --> 01:02:40,160
Speaker 1: Awesome said that you guys have definitely done a good

1090
01:02:40,240 --> 01:02:41,880
Speaker 1: job with it. I've always been impressed with what you

1091
01:02:41,920 --> 01:02:45,400
Speaker 1: guys have put out, and I think to your point,

1092
01:02:45,400 --> 01:02:47,840
Speaker 1: like you said, it's a brand. You're building a brand there,

1093
01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:52,560
Speaker 1: and that's that's important. So so why why traditional? Why

1094
01:02:52,560 --> 01:02:55,160
Speaker 1: did you end up picking up a traditional bow and

1095
01:02:55,480 --> 01:02:59,400
Speaker 1: kind of adding that to what you do well? For me,

1096
01:02:59,560 --> 01:03:04,320
Speaker 1: I I had a couple of friends, one specifically UM

1097
01:03:04,360 --> 01:03:07,600
Speaker 1: that was into traditional archery, and and in two thousand

1098
01:03:07,640 --> 01:03:09,479
Speaker 1: and ten, when I shot that pope and young deer

1099
01:03:09,560 --> 01:03:12,640
Speaker 1: with my compound down in that spot where I was

1100
01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:17,160
Speaker 1: talking about earlier, I shot him in it was the

1101
01:03:17,160 --> 01:03:19,880
Speaker 1: biggest buck I've ever killed to date, and I was

1102
01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:23,080
Speaker 1: super excited. I had trail camp pictures of him. I

1103
01:03:23,080 --> 01:03:25,200
Speaker 1: I I was hoping to get that deer, and I

1104
01:03:25,240 --> 01:03:28,240
Speaker 1: shot him and I watched him fall. He went thirty

1105
01:03:28,280 --> 01:03:31,800
Speaker 1: four yards and just piled up, and I called my dad,

1106
01:03:31,880 --> 01:03:35,920
Speaker 1: and as always, I called dad first, and then I said,

1107
01:03:36,360 --> 01:03:39,240
Speaker 1: I just shot that big eight point. He gaes, why

1108
01:03:39,280 --> 01:03:42,440
Speaker 1: aren't you excited? I said, I am. He said, you

1109
01:03:42,480 --> 01:03:46,600
Speaker 1: don't sound it, and I thought, no, I'm not. I'm

1110
01:03:46,640 --> 01:03:49,320
Speaker 1: not as excited as I should be. And I get

1111
01:03:49,360 --> 01:03:52,720
Speaker 1: pretty worked up after I shoot a deer. But for

1112
01:03:52,760 --> 01:03:56,800
Speaker 1: whatever reason that that situation, I just didn't get that

1113
01:03:56,920 --> 01:03:59,480
Speaker 1: worked up over and when I got up to him,

1114
01:03:59,480 --> 01:04:02,120
Speaker 1: I was excited I did and all that. But I

1115
01:04:02,160 --> 01:04:03,720
Speaker 1: talked to my buddy about it and I said, I

1116
01:04:03,720 --> 01:04:06,520
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't I hope I'm not losing like

1117
01:04:06,600 --> 01:04:10,120
Speaker 1: my my will to hunt in my excitement and all that.

1118
01:04:10,480 --> 01:04:12,479
Speaker 1: He goes, you just need to get a trad bow,

1119
01:04:12,480 --> 01:04:14,880
Speaker 1: and I ad, I don't know about that, and he

1120
01:04:14,920 --> 01:04:18,080
Speaker 1: said no seriously. So he brought one over and I

1121
01:04:18,120 --> 01:04:21,600
Speaker 1: started shooting it, and immediately I just I fell in

1122
01:04:21,640 --> 01:04:25,920
Speaker 1: love with shooting it. Um, it was hard, it was difficult,

1123
01:04:26,040 --> 01:04:30,240
Speaker 1: it was a challenge, and you had to practice every day,

1124
01:04:30,280 --> 01:04:32,240
Speaker 1: which is what I wanted to do. I like shooting,

1125
01:04:32,280 --> 01:04:34,280
Speaker 1: and I wanted to shoot every day. But with a compound,

1126
01:04:34,280 --> 01:04:36,760
Speaker 1: it just I could pick it up a week before

1127
01:04:36,800 --> 01:04:39,640
Speaker 1: season and it be hitting right where I wanted it to,

1128
01:04:39,960 --> 01:04:45,280
Speaker 1: just like the year before. So that primarily got me

1129
01:04:45,480 --> 01:04:49,840
Speaker 1: interested in traditional archery. A lot of people, you know,

1130
01:04:49,880 --> 01:04:52,680
Speaker 1: you get that misconception and and I might get a

1131
01:04:52,680 --> 01:04:55,240
Speaker 1: lot of hate mail for this, but guys say, oh,

1132
01:04:55,240 --> 01:04:58,240
Speaker 1: I hunt with a trad bow because it's it's more difficult,

1133
01:04:59,720 --> 01:05:02,880
Speaker 1: and maybe maybe out west it is hunting your dear

1134
01:05:03,520 --> 01:05:07,160
Speaker 1: long range shots. But for me, if you practice with

1135
01:05:07,320 --> 01:05:11,320
Speaker 1: one out of a tree stand. Um, I'm just as effective,

1136
01:05:11,360 --> 01:05:13,960
Speaker 1: if not more, with my trad bows here in Pennsylvania

1137
01:05:14,480 --> 01:05:17,520
Speaker 1: than a compound. So you know, I just want to

1138
01:05:17,560 --> 01:05:20,800
Speaker 1: throw that out there. It's it's not as as difficult

1139
01:05:20,800 --> 01:05:24,160
Speaker 1: as people may think if you practice. But yeah, I

1140
01:05:24,240 --> 01:05:27,760
Speaker 1: just that shooting more and all that got me interested

1141
01:05:27,800 --> 01:05:31,480
Speaker 1: in it. And it is cool too when you when

1142
01:05:31,480 --> 01:05:34,240
Speaker 1: you shoot a deer, have that and you know, we

1143
01:05:34,240 --> 01:05:36,520
Speaker 1: could get into all the different type of shooting styles,

1144
01:05:36,560 --> 01:05:38,880
Speaker 1: but it just feels like you're more one with the

1145
01:05:38,960 --> 01:05:41,680
Speaker 1: animal when you do shoot it, not having any sites

1146
01:05:41,880 --> 01:05:45,280
Speaker 1: and and complete control of everything. You're not going through

1147
01:05:45,880 --> 01:05:49,720
Speaker 1: all that stuff. So it's just cooler to carry a

1148
01:05:49,720 --> 01:05:53,400
Speaker 1: trad bow in the woods, I guess. And your point

1149
01:05:53,400 --> 01:05:56,200
Speaker 1: of view, do you see more people starting to do

1150
01:05:56,240 --> 01:05:59,600
Speaker 1: this like pick up trad dear instead of you know,

1151
01:05:59,600 --> 01:06:02,959
Speaker 1: starting with trad instead of starting with compound. Yeah. See,

1152
01:06:02,960 --> 01:06:06,000
Speaker 1: when I made the switch, and I can't remember what

1153
01:06:06,120 --> 01:06:08,200
Speaker 1: year it was, it was five or six years ago

1154
01:06:08,280 --> 01:06:11,600
Speaker 1: when I made the switch and started the website. Uh,

1155
01:06:12,160 --> 01:06:14,520
Speaker 1: the brand and and uh you know kind of the

1156
01:06:14,520 --> 01:06:18,640
Speaker 1: slogan was modern meets traditional and and my thought was,

1157
01:06:19,280 --> 01:06:22,200
Speaker 1: man if I made this switch to traditional archery at

1158
01:06:22,200 --> 01:06:26,320
Speaker 1: a younger age. I see a lot of people going

1159
01:06:26,360 --> 01:06:29,440
Speaker 1: back to it, and everything goes in cycles in this world,

1160
01:06:29,480 --> 01:06:33,360
Speaker 1: and I just saw that that potential, and that's kind

1161
01:06:33,360 --> 01:06:36,680
Speaker 1: of what Another thing that perked my interest in starting

1162
01:06:36,680 --> 01:06:40,920
Speaker 1: the website is seeing this, you know, convert hunter switching

1163
01:06:40,960 --> 01:06:44,760
Speaker 1: from a compound to a trad and this past year

1164
01:06:45,320 --> 01:06:49,640
Speaker 1: and this year, it's happening right now. I mean, there's

1165
01:06:49,720 --> 01:06:53,160
Speaker 1: a lot of people out there trying to produce traditional

1166
01:06:53,240 --> 01:06:56,760
Speaker 1: archery content now. Within the last year, a lot of

1167
01:06:56,800 --> 01:07:01,240
Speaker 1: traditional archery podcasts are popping up now. A lot of

1168
01:07:01,280 --> 01:07:04,240
Speaker 1: the celebrity hunters, if you want to calm, celebrity hunters

1169
01:07:04,240 --> 01:07:08,960
Speaker 1: are now switching to traditional archery. And I think people

1170
01:07:09,320 --> 01:07:13,800
Speaker 1: want or they're seeing the appeal to it, the satisfaction

1171
01:07:13,840 --> 01:07:16,560
Speaker 1: in it. But also I feel that a lot of

1172
01:07:16,560 --> 01:07:19,400
Speaker 1: people are switching to traditional archery for the wrong reasons.

1173
01:07:20,040 --> 01:07:22,320
Speaker 1: They're not switching to it just because they want to.

1174
01:07:22,400 --> 01:07:25,600
Speaker 1: They're switching to it because they see the the potential

1175
01:07:25,640 --> 01:07:28,560
Speaker 1: with the media side of things and doing something different.

1176
01:07:28,800 --> 01:07:32,640
Speaker 1: So but yeah, Dan, I see a lot of people

1177
01:07:32,680 --> 01:07:37,960
Speaker 1: doing it now. Interesting. I had thought about that last aspect.

1178
01:07:38,000 --> 01:07:41,120
Speaker 1: You talked about the the media in some ways driving

1179
01:07:41,160 --> 01:07:46,600
Speaker 1: its um because there's like opportunity there from business exactly.

1180
01:07:46,640 --> 01:07:49,480
Speaker 1: And I see a lot of people switching to it

1181
01:07:49,560 --> 01:07:55,680
Speaker 1: because I believe that they want to have that. You know.

1182
01:07:55,800 --> 01:07:59,160
Speaker 1: It's you see a lot of people and individuals converting.

1183
01:07:59,760 --> 01:08:02,120
Speaker 1: So now people are more people are wanting to see

1184
01:08:02,160 --> 01:08:05,439
Speaker 1: people harvest animals with the traditional bow, and there's more

1185
01:08:05,440 --> 01:08:10,480
Speaker 1: excitement because not that it's harder than with a compound,

1186
01:08:10,520 --> 01:08:14,760
Speaker 1: because I don't agree with that, but it's just something new,

1187
01:08:14,800 --> 01:08:17,719
Speaker 1: it's something different, even though it's been around for decades,

1188
01:08:17,800 --> 01:08:22,000
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah. So for someone who wants to pick

1189
01:08:22,080 --> 01:08:25,360
Speaker 1: up a traditional bow, whether that be making a full

1190
01:08:25,360 --> 01:08:28,320
Speaker 1: switch like you did, UM, or you know, just dabbling

1191
01:08:28,360 --> 01:08:29,760
Speaker 1: in it and trying it out in addition to what

1192
01:08:29,800 --> 01:08:32,400
Speaker 1: they're doing with their compound, what kind of things have

1193
01:08:32,560 --> 01:08:35,800
Speaker 1: you learned as far as UM, you know, taking those

1194
01:08:35,800 --> 01:08:39,120
Speaker 1: first steps. What what mistakes did you make that others

1195
01:08:39,120 --> 01:08:43,840
Speaker 1: can maybe avoid. The first thing is a lot of

1196
01:08:43,840 --> 01:08:47,080
Speaker 1: people that switch, they say, oh, I drawed a seventy

1197
01:08:47,120 --> 01:08:52,040
Speaker 1: pound compound or sixty compound I need I could I

1198
01:08:52,040 --> 01:08:56,400
Speaker 1: could shoot a fifty poundary curve no problem, or long bow. UM,

1199
01:08:56,680 --> 01:08:59,880
Speaker 1: and to start that is just it's way too much,

1200
01:09:00,439 --> 01:09:02,920
Speaker 1: so there's no let off. You're holding that fifty five

1201
01:09:03,000 --> 01:09:07,400
Speaker 1: or fifty pounds, So that's number one. If you're going

1202
01:09:07,439 --> 01:09:10,439
Speaker 1: to get into it, get a light poundage bow thirty

1203
01:09:10,479 --> 01:09:15,640
Speaker 1: five pounds, and get your form down and dialed in.

1204
01:09:15,720 --> 01:09:19,519
Speaker 1: And once you get your form down, um, it's really

1205
01:09:19,560 --> 01:09:24,519
Speaker 1: not that difficult. I feel that if you're already you know,

1206
01:09:24,560 --> 01:09:28,280
Speaker 1: shooting a compound and and do things right and know

1207
01:09:28,320 --> 01:09:31,160
Speaker 1: how to use your back tension and all the basic

1208
01:09:31,720 --> 01:09:34,680
Speaker 1: form things, that converting to a traditional bow is not

1209
01:09:34,760 --> 01:09:38,240
Speaker 1: that hard if you're not over bowed, uh, and then

1210
01:09:38,360 --> 01:09:43,080
Speaker 1: you know, getting the right guidance for era selection and

1211
01:09:43,240 --> 01:09:45,880
Speaker 1: tuning your stick bow. So a lot of people don't

1212
01:09:45,920 --> 01:09:49,280
Speaker 1: think that there's a lot of tuning that gets involved

1213
01:09:49,360 --> 01:09:52,640
Speaker 1: with a traditional bow. It's just a bow with no

1214
01:09:52,800 --> 01:09:54,960
Speaker 1: sites and you just grab arras and start shooting it.

1215
01:09:55,080 --> 01:09:58,200
Speaker 1: And that's far from the truth. There's more tuning with it,

1216
01:09:58,240 --> 01:10:02,519
Speaker 1: probably than a compound. So you know, you don't want

1217
01:10:02,520 --> 01:10:04,439
Speaker 1: to get too involved in that. You want to keep

1218
01:10:04,479 --> 01:10:06,639
Speaker 1: it simple initially and just get a bow and start

1219
01:10:06,720 --> 01:10:10,519
Speaker 1: shooting at closer ranges ten or fifteen yards and getting

1220
01:10:10,560 --> 01:10:13,920
Speaker 1: comfortable with it um, but within a couple of weeks

1221
01:10:13,920 --> 01:10:16,920
Speaker 1: you can start diving into it more and and after

1222
01:10:16,960 --> 01:10:19,320
Speaker 1: that first year start going up and wait when you

1223
01:10:19,360 --> 01:10:22,200
Speaker 1: feel comfortable. But it all depends what you're hunting to

1224
01:10:22,400 --> 01:10:25,120
Speaker 1: I I feel confident taking a thirty five pound bow

1225
01:10:25,240 --> 01:10:28,559
Speaker 1: and and shooting any white tail with it and not

1226
01:10:28,640 --> 01:10:32,880
Speaker 1: having any problems. So mhm, you mentioned, you know, one

1227
01:10:32,880 --> 01:10:35,559
Speaker 1: of the important things is getting your arrow set up properly,

1228
01:10:35,560 --> 01:10:37,519
Speaker 1: different things like that. Is there anything you can share

1229
01:10:37,560 --> 01:10:40,519
Speaker 1: from a gear standpoint, you know, just high level stuff

1230
01:10:40,560 --> 01:10:42,599
Speaker 1: as far as things that someone would need to think

1231
01:10:42,640 --> 01:10:47,559
Speaker 1: about when they're going about and getting set up. Yeah.

1232
01:10:48,240 --> 01:10:53,439
Speaker 1: So with a traditional bow, everybody draws a certain length,

1233
01:10:53,600 --> 01:10:56,600
Speaker 1: just like a compound. Generally speaking, if you have like

1234
01:10:56,640 --> 01:10:58,760
Speaker 1: a thirty inch draw with a compound, you're going to

1235
01:10:58,840 --> 01:11:01,599
Speaker 1: be roughly two inches shorter than out with a traad bill.

1236
01:11:01,960 --> 01:11:05,320
Speaker 1: And that's a general statement. So at twenty eight inches,

1237
01:11:05,880 --> 01:11:10,360
Speaker 1: that's where your poundage would be, you know, to put

1238
01:11:10,400 --> 01:11:13,000
Speaker 1: you in the ballpark. On the carbon side of things,

1239
01:11:13,080 --> 01:11:16,679
Speaker 1: carbon eras is what I shoot. You know, if you're

1240
01:11:16,720 --> 01:11:21,679
Speaker 1: shooting fifty pounds at twenty eight inches, you're gonna roughly

1241
01:11:21,800 --> 01:11:26,120
Speaker 1: want ten grains per inch, ten grains per pound a bow,

1242
01:11:26,240 --> 01:11:28,000
Speaker 1: So if it's a fifty pound bow, you're gonna want

1243
01:11:28,000 --> 01:11:33,639
Speaker 1: to be shooting ten grains per pound. Roughly five hundred

1244
01:11:33,800 --> 01:11:37,439
Speaker 1: spine or four hundred spine arrow is where you're going

1245
01:11:37,520 --> 01:11:40,439
Speaker 1: to want to be with that, And then you know,

1246
01:11:40,520 --> 01:11:43,240
Speaker 1: depending on you know, with a five spine era, you're

1247
01:11:43,240 --> 01:11:46,240
Speaker 1: gonna probably want around to fifty or three hundred grains

1248
01:11:46,320 --> 01:11:48,439
Speaker 1: up front, and I know that might team high to

1249
01:11:48,560 --> 01:11:52,120
Speaker 1: a lot, but with traditional archery, you really want to

1250
01:11:52,160 --> 01:11:55,960
Speaker 1: have a high foc which is front of center weight,

1251
01:11:56,280 --> 01:11:59,120
Speaker 1: So most of your weight in that arrow you want

1252
01:11:59,200 --> 01:12:04,880
Speaker 1: up front, So roughly or more with your setup, and

1253
01:12:05,120 --> 01:12:07,640
Speaker 1: you know what we focus on with traditional archery, and

1254
01:12:07,760 --> 01:12:11,040
Speaker 1: it should be across the board. But the compound industry,

1255
01:12:11,080 --> 01:12:16,240
Speaker 1: I feel, really chases speed. So a compound bow to

1256
01:12:16,360 --> 01:12:19,559
Speaker 1: be able to come out with new bows and new bows,

1257
01:12:19,600 --> 01:12:21,679
Speaker 1: the only thing they can really do is either get

1258
01:12:21,760 --> 01:12:26,160
Speaker 1: faster or get faster basically, so they're chasing that kinetic

1259
01:12:26,680 --> 01:12:29,840
Speaker 1: energy and a lot of people get that kinetic energy

1260
01:12:29,840 --> 01:12:34,120
Speaker 1: and momentum mixed up. So with kinetic energy you have,

1261
01:12:34,439 --> 01:12:37,559
Speaker 1: you know you're getting that from speed three ft per second, well,

1262
01:12:37,560 --> 01:12:40,240
Speaker 1: with a traditional bow, you're only shooting roughly. You know,

1263
01:12:40,280 --> 01:12:42,960
Speaker 1: a fast traditional bow would be two ft per second,

1264
01:12:43,000 --> 01:12:44,599
Speaker 1: and I have a couple, but most of them are

1265
01:12:44,600 --> 01:12:49,479
Speaker 1: around a hundred second. So with all that high foc

1266
01:12:49,600 --> 01:12:53,120
Speaker 1: and all that weight up front, that momentum of the

1267
01:12:53,200 --> 01:12:58,280
Speaker 1: heavy head carries your arrow through the animal. So just

1268
01:12:58,360 --> 01:13:02,439
Speaker 1: think of a set up of a compound bow drawing

1269
01:13:02,600 --> 01:13:06,439
Speaker 1: sixty or seventy pounds, shooting three ft per second, but

1270
01:13:06,640 --> 01:13:10,040
Speaker 1: also having a high foc arrow um. And this is

1271
01:13:10,080 --> 01:13:14,479
Speaker 1: all dr Ashby's theory and studies. So if a guy

1272
01:13:14,520 --> 01:13:17,960
Speaker 1: would shoot that type of set up, you know, they

1273
01:13:17,960 --> 01:13:22,080
Speaker 1: could shoot through a car. They really could. Well, it

1274
01:13:22,479 --> 01:13:24,320
Speaker 1: makes sense and it's one of those things I feel

1275
01:13:24,360 --> 01:13:27,560
Speaker 1: like to your point, whether you're talking about tread or

1276
01:13:27,680 --> 01:13:31,559
Speaker 1: compound bow, there's there is so much talked about when

1277
01:13:31,640 --> 01:13:34,599
Speaker 1: it comes to speed, but there are a lot more

1278
01:13:34,640 --> 01:13:36,720
Speaker 1: important things I think in the long run when it

1279
01:13:36,720 --> 01:13:38,800
Speaker 1: comes to actually be able to kill an animal, you know,

1280
01:13:38,880 --> 01:13:42,240
Speaker 1: being able to get a penetration, being able to you know,

1281
01:13:42,439 --> 01:13:46,960
Speaker 1: actually aim well. Absolutely, And the last podcast we did

1282
01:13:47,000 --> 01:13:49,840
Speaker 1: with my good friend Matt Davis, who I'm going hunting with.

1283
01:13:50,360 --> 01:13:53,160
Speaker 1: He he just got back from Africa, and killed quite

1284
01:13:53,200 --> 01:13:55,640
Speaker 1: a few animals in Africa with a fifty pound re

1285
01:13:55,840 --> 01:14:00,479
Speaker 1: curve and an extreme foc arrow. So when he got there,

1286
01:14:00,520 --> 01:14:02,639
Speaker 1: these guys thought, oh man, you're not gonna be able

1287
01:14:02,720 --> 01:14:06,720
Speaker 1: to get it done with this. And he he did

1288
01:14:06,800 --> 01:14:09,479
Speaker 1: not have any problems killing anything with passed through and

1289
01:14:09,520 --> 01:14:12,479
Speaker 1: everything else wild or beast and and all that. So,

1290
01:14:13,760 --> 01:14:15,960
Speaker 1: you know, with a thirty five pound recurve and a

1291
01:14:16,000 --> 01:14:20,240
Speaker 1: good foc arrow, as far as whitetail go, you'll pass

1292
01:14:20,280 --> 01:14:23,360
Speaker 1: through any of those animals. And I kind of converted

1293
01:14:23,439 --> 01:14:25,800
Speaker 1: my friend Mike Groom and that I talked about earlier

1294
01:14:25,840 --> 01:14:28,679
Speaker 1: into traditional archery and his first bows a thirty five

1295
01:14:28,720 --> 01:14:31,600
Speaker 1: pound bow, and he harvested quite a few doal with that,

1296
01:14:32,240 --> 01:14:35,639
Speaker 1: and he was just amazed at how that era slipped

1297
01:14:35,680 --> 01:14:39,519
Speaker 1: through the deer like butter. And the other thing that

1298
01:14:39,640 --> 01:14:41,960
Speaker 1: I you know, this is kind of getting off topic, Mark,

1299
01:14:42,040 --> 01:14:44,000
Speaker 1: but what I like about it is you think about

1300
01:14:44,000 --> 01:14:47,920
Speaker 1: a compound and kinetic energy and speed, but not a

1301
01:14:47,920 --> 01:14:50,439
Speaker 1: lot of weight up front of an arrow. It's almost

1302
01:14:50,479 --> 01:14:53,040
Speaker 1: like you're slapping that deer. So you shoot it and

1303
01:14:53,040 --> 01:14:55,600
Speaker 1: that deer just gets whipped. That deer is going to

1304
01:14:55,760 --> 01:14:57,840
Speaker 1: run as fast as it can for as far as

1305
01:14:57,880 --> 01:15:00,639
Speaker 1: it can, so that deer might make it too hundred yards,

1306
01:15:00,640 --> 01:15:03,160
Speaker 1: it might make it further. Well with a trad bow

1307
01:15:03,200 --> 01:15:07,200
Speaker 1: and that high foc the era is going relatively slow,

1308
01:15:07,280 --> 01:15:10,599
Speaker 1: and that momentum pulls that with a sharp single bubble

1309
01:15:11,360 --> 01:15:13,960
Speaker 1: you know, two blade broadhead, it pulls that era through

1310
01:15:13,960 --> 01:15:16,759
Speaker 1: that animal like like you're getting shot with a needle.

1311
01:15:17,840 --> 01:15:21,360
Speaker 1: And from what I found in my finding is all

1312
01:15:21,400 --> 01:15:24,639
Speaker 1: my dear within the last six years have only went

1313
01:15:24,920 --> 01:15:28,840
Speaker 1: fifty yards tops, and I've watched them all fall in site.

1314
01:15:29,439 --> 01:15:34,760
Speaker 1: So there's something to that the trad world, in the

1315
01:15:34,880 --> 01:15:38,160
Speaker 1: compound world, with the right set up, that arrow going

1316
01:15:38,200 --> 01:15:42,120
Speaker 1: through these animals and them not even knowing their hit.

1317
01:15:42,760 --> 01:15:46,040
Speaker 1: So I think with a really sharp broadhead and the

1318
01:15:46,120 --> 01:15:48,639
Speaker 1: right set up, you don't even really need a good

1319
01:15:48,640 --> 01:15:51,040
Speaker 1: blood trail anymore unless you make a really poor shot,

1320
01:15:51,120 --> 01:15:54,280
Speaker 1: because the animals fall right in front of you. So

1321
01:15:54,479 --> 01:15:58,559
Speaker 1: it's pretty cool to see that too. Yeah, I really

1322
01:15:58,600 --> 01:16:02,559
Speaker 1: need to one of these days. This is one area

1323
01:16:02,720 --> 01:16:06,120
Speaker 1: that I don't spend enough time on um even with

1324
01:16:06,400 --> 01:16:08,920
Speaker 1: just with my own setup with my compound is really

1325
01:16:09,040 --> 01:16:12,720
Speaker 1: fine tuning my arrow set up and making sure I've

1326
01:16:12,760 --> 01:16:15,400
Speaker 1: got the right every single different little thing you just

1327
01:16:15,439 --> 01:16:18,639
Speaker 1: mentioned there. That's one area where I always talk about

1328
01:16:18,640 --> 01:16:21,360
Speaker 1: details and being detail focused and doing all the little things.

1329
01:16:21,400 --> 01:16:22,880
Speaker 1: And I do a really good job of that with

1330
01:16:22,960 --> 01:16:25,800
Speaker 1: my hunting, figuring out where to go, when to hunt,

1331
01:16:25,840 --> 01:16:28,280
Speaker 1: how to hunt, all those things. And I admittedly have

1332
01:16:28,400 --> 01:16:31,600
Speaker 1: not spent as much time dialing you know, the details

1333
01:16:31,680 --> 01:16:34,320
Speaker 1: of my archery equipment. I practice a lot. I can shoot,

1334
01:16:34,760 --> 01:16:38,080
Speaker 1: but I probably could shoot even better if I applied

1335
01:16:38,120 --> 01:16:41,960
Speaker 1: that same level of detail to the smaller elements of

1336
01:16:42,000 --> 01:16:45,080
Speaker 1: my gear. Um, and I need to do that, so

1337
01:16:45,200 --> 01:16:48,760
Speaker 1: um to your point of all these things they matter, Yeah, well,

1338
01:16:48,840 --> 01:16:51,639
Speaker 1: and we could. I could just keep diving into arras

1339
01:16:51,760 --> 01:16:54,439
Speaker 1: and and now the nano shafts and the micro diameter

1340
01:16:54,560 --> 01:16:58,400
Speaker 1: shafts and with that high fo C that that wind

1341
01:16:58,439 --> 01:17:00,519
Speaker 1: doesn't affect your arrow as my uch and you have

1342
01:17:00,560 --> 01:17:04,800
Speaker 1: tighter groups. But you know, that's the that's the most

1343
01:17:04,840 --> 01:17:07,519
Speaker 1: important part to me, because you can do all the

1344
01:17:07,560 --> 01:17:09,800
Speaker 1: things you're doing, marking all the right things and being

1345
01:17:09,840 --> 01:17:11,800
Speaker 1: the right set up and shoot well, but if your

1346
01:17:12,000 --> 01:17:17,040
Speaker 1: arrow doesn't perform, you're none of that stuff even mattered,

1347
01:17:17,200 --> 01:17:21,200
Speaker 1: you know, So you know that's definitely an area you

1348
01:17:21,240 --> 01:17:28,439
Speaker 1: need to clean up on this year more than ever.

1349
01:17:28,920 --> 01:17:31,240
Speaker 1: I did a lot of research on that, right. I

1350
01:17:31,240 --> 01:17:35,120
Speaker 1: did a lot of research on UM foc um, what

1351
01:17:35,240 --> 01:17:37,360
Speaker 1: brought it, I was going to use, what arrow arrows,

1352
01:17:37,400 --> 01:17:40,000
Speaker 1: I was going to use UM all the way down

1353
01:17:40,080 --> 01:17:42,880
Speaker 1: to my fletchings. I you know, I talked with guys

1354
01:17:42,920 --> 01:17:45,639
Speaker 1: who were way more experienced than me, and that's where

1355
01:17:45,640 --> 01:17:51,800
Speaker 1: I got my information. And this year, I'm my bow

1356
01:17:52,080 --> 01:17:54,920
Speaker 1: is not as fast as it as uh the bow

1357
01:17:54,960 --> 01:17:57,680
Speaker 1: that I shot the previous year, and my arrows are

1358
01:17:57,720 --> 01:18:01,400
Speaker 1: probably a little heavier. So I am actually starting to

1359
01:18:01,479 --> 01:18:06,280
Speaker 1: see a little more arch in my arrow flight this year.

1360
01:18:06,360 --> 01:18:09,280
Speaker 1: And you know, this is a compound still over the last,

1361
01:18:09,320 --> 01:18:12,040
Speaker 1: but I'm shooting a heavy arrow that you know, if

1362
01:18:12,080 --> 01:18:14,880
Speaker 1: there's contact, I'm not gonna have to worry about whether

1363
01:18:15,000 --> 01:18:18,639
Speaker 1: or not it's getting I'm getting penetration because I've put

1364
01:18:18,680 --> 01:18:24,400
Speaker 1: so much energy or thought into that arrow setup. Yeah. Absolutely,

1365
01:18:25,040 --> 01:18:26,920
Speaker 1: And I forgot to mention that's probably one of the

1366
01:18:26,960 --> 01:18:29,840
Speaker 1: coolest things about TRAD two is just watching that arc,

1367
01:18:30,439 --> 01:18:34,040
Speaker 1: the arrow arc. So it's a pretty cool thing. But

1368
01:18:34,240 --> 01:18:36,320
Speaker 1: that is cool even with a compound. I just love

1369
01:18:36,320 --> 01:18:39,479
Speaker 1: when you shoot a long range shot six and you

1370
01:18:39,560 --> 01:18:43,440
Speaker 1: just watch it rise and then drops right somehow magically

1371
01:18:43,680 --> 01:18:47,000
Speaker 1: right to where you're putting. That is cool. That's a

1372
01:18:47,000 --> 01:18:49,439
Speaker 1: beautiful thing, that's for sure. Yeah, except for when it

1373
01:18:49,479 --> 01:18:52,519
Speaker 1: doesn't go where you want to go and then shoot

1374
01:18:52,560 --> 01:18:57,360
Speaker 1: your play equipment. Yeah. Yeah, we're going up to this weekend,

1375
01:18:57,360 --> 01:19:00,519
Speaker 1: we're going up to seven springs to the Total Archery Challenge,

1376
01:19:00,560 --> 01:19:04,040
Speaker 1: and you know there's a lot of long shots and

1377
01:19:04,080 --> 01:19:06,639
Speaker 1: shooting the trad bize that those targets. I'm sure we'll

1378
01:19:06,640 --> 01:19:10,479
Speaker 1: lose a lot of eras, but it's always fun. So yeah,

1379
01:19:10,840 --> 01:19:13,720
Speaker 1: so so real quick, what about from a hunting standpoint,

1380
01:19:14,200 --> 01:19:18,160
Speaker 1: if you're hunting, and I imagine that a lot of

1381
01:19:18,240 --> 01:19:21,479
Speaker 1: the things that you learn when using a traditional bow

1382
01:19:21,520 --> 01:19:24,439
Speaker 1: when bow hunting could be applied right back to if

1383
01:19:24,439 --> 01:19:26,240
Speaker 1: you're using a compound bow, because I think it just

1384
01:19:26,320 --> 01:19:29,480
Speaker 1: forces you to pay more attention to detail, is my assumption.

1385
01:19:29,680 --> 01:19:32,840
Speaker 1: But I'm curious, um, you tell me the truth. When

1386
01:19:33,280 --> 01:19:36,679
Speaker 1: hunting with trad gear, how does that impact you're hunting?

1387
01:19:36,680 --> 01:19:39,320
Speaker 1: How does that impact you're picking stand size or doing

1388
01:19:39,320 --> 01:19:41,519
Speaker 1: anything like that. Is there anything noticeably different or you

1389
01:19:41,680 --> 01:19:44,759
Speaker 1: are you're hunting just like you did before. Yeah, there's

1390
01:19:45,080 --> 01:19:47,320
Speaker 1: there's a lot of similarities for sure, but there's a

1391
01:19:47,400 --> 01:19:53,200
Speaker 1: lot of differences. Um, the main one is for me,

1392
01:19:53,280 --> 01:19:55,559
Speaker 1: and the biggest adjustment that I had is the bows

1393
01:19:55,600 --> 01:19:58,760
Speaker 1: are longer, So you know, for as far as a

1394
01:19:58,840 --> 01:20:02,800
Speaker 1: short trad AGAs you're probably at fifty eight inches, I

1395
01:20:02,880 --> 01:20:04,680
Speaker 1: do have some shorter than that. I have one it's

1396
01:20:04,720 --> 01:20:07,360
Speaker 1: fifty six inches, but that's about as short as they go,

1397
01:20:07,880 --> 01:20:10,880
Speaker 1: and that's short, So you know, I have them up

1398
01:20:10,920 --> 01:20:14,160
Speaker 1: to sixty sixty two inch bows as well. So when

1399
01:20:14,200 --> 01:20:19,360
Speaker 1: you're in a stand, um, you know, I I hunt

1400
01:20:19,360 --> 01:20:22,000
Speaker 1: out a lone wolf and muddy tree stands and they're

1401
01:20:22,040 --> 01:20:24,680
Speaker 1: open in the front, which makes it easier, but you

1402
01:20:24,760 --> 01:20:27,799
Speaker 1: have to worry about your limbs as more hitting branches

1403
01:20:27,840 --> 01:20:30,040
Speaker 1: when you draw, so you really have to plan your

1404
01:20:30,080 --> 01:20:33,080
Speaker 1: shots out to make sure that you're going to clear

1405
01:20:33,200 --> 01:20:36,639
Speaker 1: your limbs when you do drop back, more so than

1406
01:20:36,680 --> 01:20:40,599
Speaker 1: I did with a compound. And then you know, heights

1407
01:20:40,720 --> 01:20:43,759
Speaker 1: is another thing. So higher you're getting in the tree

1408
01:20:44,479 --> 01:20:47,559
Speaker 1: with a trap, but the steeper the angle, the more

1409
01:20:47,600 --> 01:20:49,800
Speaker 1: you know room for air you're going to have. So

1410
01:20:50,400 --> 01:20:55,280
Speaker 1: most traditional hunters try to hunt a little lower out

1411
01:20:55,280 --> 01:20:57,519
Speaker 1: of the stand. Most of my stands are probably fifteen

1412
01:20:57,520 --> 01:21:01,040
Speaker 1: to sixteen ft at at best, so you gotta make

1413
01:21:01,080 --> 01:21:04,479
Speaker 1: sure you have a good backdrop, good cover, but you

1414
01:21:04,520 --> 01:21:06,599
Speaker 1: can get away with that. A lot of traditional bow

1415
01:21:06,680 --> 01:21:09,160
Speaker 1: hunters hunt off the ground and and stuff like that.

1416
01:21:09,280 --> 01:21:12,720
Speaker 1: My dad killed his buck this year and he he

1417
01:21:12,800 --> 01:21:14,719
Speaker 1: doesn't like to get high. He might have been twelve ft,

1418
01:21:14,800 --> 01:21:17,519
Speaker 1: but it was it was the perfect tree. It kind

1419
01:21:17,520 --> 01:21:19,960
Speaker 1: of went up and it split multiple ways, so he

1420
01:21:20,000 --> 01:21:21,840
Speaker 1: had a lot of cover in there and the deer

1421
01:21:21,920 --> 01:21:24,880
Speaker 1: never even knew he was there. But that, you know,

1422
01:21:24,960 --> 01:21:26,680
Speaker 1: those are some of the little things you have to

1423
01:21:26,680 --> 01:21:29,560
Speaker 1: pay attention to with the traditional bow, wherewith when I

1424
01:21:29,640 --> 01:21:32,240
Speaker 1: hunted with a compound, I just climbed a size I

1425
01:21:32,280 --> 01:21:36,040
Speaker 1: felt like I needed to get and and didn't really

1426
01:21:36,080 --> 01:21:38,920
Speaker 1: worry about backdrops and stuff like that as much. But

1427
01:21:40,680 --> 01:21:43,599
Speaker 1: what about range, I mean, what kind of what kind

1428
01:21:43,600 --> 01:21:46,880
Speaker 1: of range are you typically setting up for in the

1429
01:21:46,920 --> 01:21:49,200
Speaker 1: most trend hunter. I mean, I've got a friend who

1430
01:21:49,800 --> 01:21:52,120
Speaker 1: um was shooting with a traditional bull for a while

1431
01:21:52,160 --> 01:21:53,599
Speaker 1: and he said, you know, if I got a buck

1432
01:21:53,640 --> 01:21:56,400
Speaker 1: within twenty yards, I'm gonna shoot him. But anything past that,

1433
01:21:56,720 --> 01:21:58,519
Speaker 1: I don't think I could do it, or didn't want

1434
01:21:58,520 --> 01:22:02,559
Speaker 1: to risk that is that like, yeah, you know, that's

1435
01:22:02,680 --> 01:22:07,120
Speaker 1: that's a funny thing in the traditional archery world, you know,

1436
01:22:07,160 --> 01:22:09,479
Speaker 1: in any of the archery world. I guess there's a

1437
01:22:09,560 --> 01:22:13,320
Speaker 1: lot of debate. But um, I'm going to catch a

1438
01:22:13,400 --> 01:22:16,559
Speaker 1: lot of hate mail for this too. But I like

1439
01:22:16,680 --> 01:22:20,320
Speaker 1: to shoot far with my trad bill, And do I

1440
01:22:20,320 --> 01:22:22,680
Speaker 1: want to shoot an animal at two yards? Yeah, I

1441
01:22:22,680 --> 01:22:24,360
Speaker 1: mean that's what bow hunting is. You want to get

1442
01:22:24,400 --> 01:22:26,720
Speaker 1: as close as you possibly can to that animal for

1443
01:22:26,800 --> 01:22:31,800
Speaker 1: that encounter. However, if my you know, I work full

1444
01:22:31,800 --> 01:22:33,880
Speaker 1: time and I have a family and everything else, so

1445
01:22:33,960 --> 01:22:36,479
Speaker 1: it's tough to get out. So if that opportunity presents

1446
01:22:36,479 --> 01:22:40,760
Speaker 1: itself and I feel confident at taking a shot, I'm

1447
01:22:40,760 --> 01:22:43,160
Speaker 1: gonna take it. So I practice with my trad bill

1448
01:22:43,400 --> 01:22:47,080
Speaker 1: for long range, and when I went out west in

1449
01:22:47,120 --> 01:22:50,479
Speaker 1: South Dakota, I felt confident at fifty yards with my

1450
01:22:50,680 --> 01:22:57,719
Speaker 1: with my bow. You know. So there's a whole whole

1451
01:22:57,720 --> 01:23:02,720
Speaker 1: another side to shooting styles and instinctive shooting versus gap shooting.

1452
01:23:02,800 --> 01:23:06,519
Speaker 1: And there's different aiming methods that some archers use with

1453
01:23:06,560 --> 01:23:10,200
Speaker 1: traditional bows. So with with that, if you have the

1454
01:23:10,320 --> 01:23:13,000
Speaker 1: right set up and this specific bow is a zipper

1455
01:23:13,080 --> 01:23:15,600
Speaker 1: Z four bow, and the limbs or Z four is

1456
01:23:15,640 --> 01:23:20,559
Speaker 1: they're considered super curves, so they shoot very fast, so

1457
01:23:20,600 --> 01:23:24,559
Speaker 1: the arrows shooting flatter, So I could really reach out

1458
01:23:24,600 --> 01:23:28,880
Speaker 1: with that bow. But primarily, you know, in Pennsylvania, even

1459
01:23:28,920 --> 01:23:31,799
Speaker 1: with a compound, your furthest shots a thirty yards shot.

1460
01:23:32,960 --> 01:23:36,439
Speaker 1: I have taken my mule deer. I took it like

1461
01:23:36,520 --> 01:23:39,439
Speaker 1: thirty thirty five. I've taken quite a few deal at

1462
01:23:39,479 --> 01:23:43,920
Speaker 1: thirty five yards. Most of my bucks were and under,

1463
01:23:44,120 --> 01:23:47,639
Speaker 1: you know, so obviously you want to get as close

1464
01:23:47,720 --> 01:23:49,479
Speaker 1: as you can, but you can reach out there with them,

1465
01:23:49,520 --> 01:23:52,800
Speaker 1: and you can be sufficient at those ranges if you

1466
01:23:52,880 --> 01:23:56,120
Speaker 1: practice and and you're tuned well and you have the

1467
01:23:56,240 --> 01:24:00,320
Speaker 1: right setup. That makes sense. Here's the natural. A follow

1468
01:24:00,400 --> 01:24:05,120
Speaker 1: up question though, and people ask the same thing of

1469
01:24:05,280 --> 01:24:08,000
Speaker 1: people when you should compound book compared to a rifle

1470
01:24:08,080 --> 01:24:11,400
Speaker 1: or something. When you go to traditional gear from a compound,

1471
01:24:12,479 --> 01:24:15,120
Speaker 1: is there is there has been quantified in any way

1472
01:24:15,240 --> 01:24:17,880
Speaker 1: or researched or looked into. Is there an increase in

1473
01:24:18,040 --> 01:24:20,920
Speaker 1: wounding rate when you switch to a traditional boat because

1474
01:24:21,600 --> 01:24:25,280
Speaker 1: from the outside looking in seems more difficult, seems more

1475
01:24:25,360 --> 01:24:27,479
Speaker 1: likely that that type of thing would happen. Is that true?

1476
01:24:27,600 --> 01:24:31,800
Speaker 1: Is that false? What are your thoughts? Well, I don't

1477
01:24:31,840 --> 01:24:36,600
Speaker 1: know of any statistical research data that would say that

1478
01:24:36,720 --> 01:24:40,720
Speaker 1: there's more wounded animal with a traditional boat. I personally

1479
01:24:41,280 --> 01:24:45,799
Speaker 1: feel that there's less. And here's why. If you're getting

1480
01:24:45,800 --> 01:24:50,519
Speaker 1: into traditional archery, you've probably been in the archery world

1481
01:24:50,920 --> 01:24:54,080
Speaker 1: quite some time, and you pay attention to the details,

1482
01:24:54,200 --> 01:24:56,240
Speaker 1: the majority of them and not all of them, but

1483
01:24:56,720 --> 01:25:00,120
Speaker 1: you pay attention to a see you practice every day

1484
01:25:00,160 --> 01:25:03,520
Speaker 1: because it's it's just not handed to you what I've

1485
01:25:03,560 --> 01:25:12,000
Speaker 1: seen here in Pennsylvania. They've allowed crossbows now, and any

1486
01:25:12,040 --> 01:25:14,200
Speaker 1: any Joe blow can go to Walmart and buy a

1487
01:25:14,280 --> 01:25:18,120
Speaker 1: compound and buy arrows and throw on broad heads with

1488
01:25:18,240 --> 01:25:21,120
Speaker 1: a crossbow or compound and go out and shoot animals.

1489
01:25:21,720 --> 01:25:26,800
Speaker 1: And I see more deer being wounded with those setups

1490
01:25:26,960 --> 01:25:29,160
Speaker 1: and the guys that are just not educated and it

1491
01:25:29,320 --> 01:25:32,920
Speaker 1: than I do with traditional archery. I have a small

1492
01:25:32,920 --> 01:25:36,760
Speaker 1: group of friends here that hunt with traditional bows, probably

1493
01:25:36,880 --> 01:25:39,840
Speaker 1: eight or nine of us here and Punksy or punks

1494
01:25:39,880 --> 01:25:44,320
Speaker 1: of Tawny. And I can count on one hand over

1495
01:25:44,320 --> 01:25:46,799
Speaker 1: the last seven years how many deer has been wounded

1496
01:25:47,160 --> 01:25:50,439
Speaker 1: and and we found them later. You know, they didn't

1497
01:25:50,439 --> 01:25:54,320
Speaker 1: go that far so I don't think that that you

1498
01:25:54,360 --> 01:25:57,879
Speaker 1: know that there is that many deer wounded with traditional

1499
01:25:57,920 --> 01:26:01,439
Speaker 1: bows only only because of that mark is these guys

1500
01:26:01,479 --> 01:26:05,719
Speaker 1: are putting in their time with this equipment. And again

1501
01:26:05,880 --> 01:26:10,920
Speaker 1: I feel, even at an early stage in my long

1502
01:26:11,040 --> 01:26:14,759
Speaker 1: six years of traditional bow hunting, uh, that I felt

1503
01:26:14,800 --> 01:26:17,519
Speaker 1: confident at twenty and under just as confident with the

1504
01:26:17,640 --> 01:26:21,760
Speaker 1: traditional bow as I did a compound. It's just it's

1505
01:26:22,280 --> 01:26:24,639
Speaker 1: it's not as difficult as people make it seem to be.

1506
01:26:25,560 --> 01:26:29,880
Speaker 1: I think your points well taken about. Regardless of equipment,

1507
01:26:30,240 --> 01:26:32,439
Speaker 1: it comes down to your willingness to put in the

1508
01:26:32,520 --> 01:26:36,280
Speaker 1: time and preparation and practice to make sure that whatever

1509
01:26:36,320 --> 01:26:41,439
Speaker 1: you're using you can use ethically and you know, inflict

1510
01:26:41,439 --> 01:26:44,760
Speaker 1: a mortal quick wound um, and that that's a responsibility

1511
01:26:44,760 --> 01:26:46,400
Speaker 1: on all of us, regardless of what we're using. And

1512
01:26:46,439 --> 01:26:49,680
Speaker 1: so I think it it's interesting that and from a

1513
01:26:49,880 --> 01:26:52,280
Speaker 1: from a common sense standpoint, I think bow hunters in general,

1514
01:26:52,640 --> 01:26:54,640
Speaker 1: when you're using some kind of vertical bow, you know,

1515
01:26:54,840 --> 01:26:57,439
Speaker 1: and it becomes maybe more difficult as you switched between

1516
01:26:57,439 --> 01:27:01,000
Speaker 1: the different things it usually pulls and people that are

1517
01:27:01,040 --> 01:27:03,960
Speaker 1: more dedicated to using it, which usually would then lead

1518
01:27:04,000 --> 01:27:08,640
Speaker 1: to you know, a greater attention decail detail leading to

1519
01:27:08,720 --> 01:27:12,439
Speaker 1: high rates of success. So that that makes sense, um,

1520
01:27:12,479 --> 01:27:16,160
Speaker 1: And it's I mean, it's an interesting thing to think about. Yeah,

1521
01:27:16,400 --> 01:27:18,720
Speaker 1: in these like I keep going back to the era

1522
01:27:18,840 --> 01:27:22,120
Speaker 1: set ups. My dad practices all the time. But he's

1523
01:27:22,120 --> 01:27:23,880
Speaker 1: not that good of an archer, and he's the first

1524
01:27:23,920 --> 01:27:26,680
Speaker 1: to admit that. And he's killed quite a few deer

1525
01:27:26,720 --> 01:27:29,000
Speaker 1: with the trad boll and he never hunted with a compound.

1526
01:27:29,000 --> 01:27:32,599
Speaker 1: He got into archery four years ago, four or five

1527
01:27:32,680 --> 01:27:35,479
Speaker 1: years ago, and he shot his fair share of deer now.

1528
01:27:36,160 --> 01:27:39,479
Speaker 1: And I can say this honestly. Not one of those

1529
01:27:39,479 --> 01:27:43,400
Speaker 1: shots was perfect, not one of them was a great shot.

1530
01:27:44,439 --> 01:27:47,240
Speaker 1: But we did the right thing. We gave him enough time.

1531
01:27:47,400 --> 01:27:50,160
Speaker 1: And with that era set up, the way that those

1532
01:27:50,200 --> 01:27:53,759
Speaker 1: two blade single bevels we shoot, the grizzly broadheads cut

1533
01:27:54,040 --> 01:27:56,479
Speaker 1: and they just do a lot of damage. And these

1534
01:27:56,560 --> 01:27:59,280
Speaker 1: deer don't know what happened, so they do not go

1535
01:27:59,400 --> 01:28:02,000
Speaker 1: far before they bed down. So if you just give

1536
01:28:02,040 --> 01:28:04,720
Speaker 1: them the right amount of time, they're there and you

1537
01:28:04,760 --> 01:28:08,160
Speaker 1: can you can recover everything that you that you shot at.

1538
01:28:08,280 --> 01:28:13,840
Speaker 1: So that's another aspect of it. But yeah, it's just

1539
01:28:13,880 --> 01:28:17,080
Speaker 1: making the right decisions and trying to educate yourself and

1540
01:28:17,120 --> 01:28:20,599
Speaker 1: put in the time. Like you said, now, as somebody

1541
01:28:20,640 --> 01:28:27,600
Speaker 1: who's gone from compound to trad where would you suggest

1542
01:28:28,080 --> 01:28:32,439
Speaker 1: somebody starts. Let's say, whether that is a bringing a

1543
01:28:32,520 --> 01:28:36,240
Speaker 1: child in or a kid younger person or someone who's

1544
01:28:36,240 --> 01:28:39,040
Speaker 1: older who's just getting into bow hunting for the first time.

1545
01:28:39,439 --> 01:28:41,800
Speaker 1: Should Is there a preference on where you think they

1546
01:28:41,800 --> 01:28:48,160
Speaker 1: should start? You know, I don't. I don't think dan

1547
01:28:48,760 --> 01:28:51,280
Speaker 1: um like my dad, he started with a traditional bow,

1548
01:28:51,320 --> 01:28:55,120
Speaker 1: and I had years of experience with a compound. I

1549
01:28:55,120 --> 01:28:59,760
Speaker 1: didn't have much difficulty making that transition. However, I think

1550
01:28:59,800 --> 01:29:03,320
Speaker 1: that transition is easier if you've hunted with a compound

1551
01:29:03,360 --> 01:29:06,400
Speaker 1: and you've spent time archery hunting, I think that transition

1552
01:29:06,560 --> 01:29:10,120
Speaker 1: comes a lot faster. The big the biggest thing is

1553
01:29:10,120 --> 01:29:13,799
Speaker 1: is these guys that come from a compound to traditional archery,

1554
01:29:13,840 --> 01:29:17,360
Speaker 1: they think they have to change all these all these

1555
01:29:17,400 --> 01:29:20,479
Speaker 1: things with their shot, and it's the same. You draw

1556
01:29:20,560 --> 01:29:22,880
Speaker 1: back an anchor just like you would with a compound,

1557
01:29:22,960 --> 01:29:26,480
Speaker 1: you hit your anchor point. You have multiple anchor points

1558
01:29:26,520 --> 01:29:30,760
Speaker 1: with traditional archery. It's not you don't have to snapshoot.

1559
01:29:30,840 --> 01:29:33,960
Speaker 1: These traditional archers that just draw back and let it go.

1560
01:29:34,880 --> 01:29:38,120
Speaker 1: Has either shot like that all their life and have

1561
01:29:38,439 --> 01:29:42,320
Speaker 1: become really really sufficient at it and are good at it,

1562
01:29:43,320 --> 01:29:46,080
Speaker 1: or they don't know what they're doing. Is is what

1563
01:29:46,200 --> 01:29:49,000
Speaker 1: I've found. And there are some guys that can snap

1564
01:29:49,080 --> 01:29:55,000
Speaker 1: shoot like crazy, but the majority of good archers drawback

1565
01:29:55,120 --> 01:29:57,920
Speaker 1: and hit their anchor. You watch all the Olympic traditional

1566
01:29:58,000 --> 01:30:01,360
Speaker 1: archer guys, They're not snapshooting there. I'm back hitting an anchor,

1567
01:30:02,160 --> 01:30:06,000
Speaker 1: going through a psycho trigger and a controlled shot process.

1568
01:30:06,040 --> 01:30:09,720
Speaker 1: That Jewel Turner, you know, talks about traditional archery and compound.

1569
01:30:10,600 --> 01:30:13,160
Speaker 1: We've had Jewel on our podcast and I would highly

1570
01:30:13,200 --> 01:30:15,920
Speaker 1: recommend looking into some of his stuff for guys that

1571
01:30:16,200 --> 01:30:20,640
Speaker 1: have target panic with compounds or or everybody suffers with

1572
01:30:20,680 --> 01:30:25,720
Speaker 1: a a little bit of target panic. Um. Jewel has

1573
01:30:25,800 --> 01:30:28,680
Speaker 1: kind of really set the blueprint for how how you

1574
01:30:28,680 --> 01:30:31,439
Speaker 1: can get yourself out of it. And it's all it's

1575
01:30:31,439 --> 01:30:35,960
Speaker 1: all physiological stuff, it's all science, it's how our brain works.

1576
01:30:36,280 --> 01:30:39,160
Speaker 1: So if you if you follow that type of sequence

1577
01:30:39,200 --> 01:30:42,320
Speaker 1: in your shot, it is not hard to switch from

1578
01:30:42,320 --> 01:30:45,120
Speaker 1: a compound to a traditional archery or be successful with

1579
01:30:45,120 --> 01:30:49,280
Speaker 1: a compound. So I don't think there's anywhere I think

1580
01:30:49,320 --> 01:30:53,960
Speaker 1: anyone can start with a traditional bill, but the transition

1581
01:30:54,080 --> 01:30:57,240
Speaker 1: is much easier if you started with a compound first.

1582
01:30:58,400 --> 01:31:01,320
Speaker 1: Can you lebrate on that last? So, regardless of if

1583
01:31:01,360 --> 01:31:04,280
Speaker 1: someone listening right now shoots a traditional ball or compoumbo

1584
01:31:05,200 --> 01:31:07,439
Speaker 1: right as you just mentioned, we've probably all to some

1585
01:31:07,520 --> 01:31:11,240
Speaker 1: degree experience some kind of target panic. Um, could you

1586
01:31:11,240 --> 01:31:13,720
Speaker 1: elaborate on that process that you mentioned? Um, I can't

1587
01:31:13,720 --> 01:31:16,759
Speaker 1: remember guy his name you said, but well, what's this, uh,

1588
01:31:16,880 --> 01:31:18,920
Speaker 1: this way of dealing with target panic? If you're talking

1589
01:31:18,920 --> 01:31:23,800
Speaker 1: about so, his name's Jewel Turner and he runs iron

1590
01:31:23,840 --> 01:31:30,719
Speaker 1: Mind Hunting dot com or iron Mind Academy, So what

1591
01:31:30,720 --> 01:31:34,479
Speaker 1: what happens with target panic? And Jewel might send me

1592
01:31:34,520 --> 01:31:38,200
Speaker 1: all kind of hate mail if I don't elaborate and

1593
01:31:38,360 --> 01:31:42,120
Speaker 1: get a lot of hate mail on that if I

1594
01:31:42,160 --> 01:31:45,799
Speaker 1: don't elaborate, you know, if I don't elaborate on this correctly.

1595
01:31:45,920 --> 01:31:51,640
Speaker 1: But to my knowledge, this is what happens. So, if

1596
01:31:51,680 --> 01:31:55,320
Speaker 1: you're shooting with a compound, you you could have a

1597
01:31:55,360 --> 01:32:00,000
Speaker 1: trigger release or thumb release or a back tension. Really,

1598
01:32:00,520 --> 01:32:03,439
Speaker 1: when you have a back tension release, you don't know

1599
01:32:03,479 --> 01:32:06,360
Speaker 1: when that shot is going to go off. So as

1600
01:32:06,400 --> 01:32:09,800
Speaker 1: you're pulling through the shot, and you should be saying,

1601
01:32:09,920 --> 01:32:15,639
Speaker 1: keep pulling, keep pulling. That SHOT's gonna break unexpectedly. When

1602
01:32:15,640 --> 01:32:20,519
Speaker 1: a shot breaks unexpectedly, you don't brace for impact. You

1603
01:32:20,560 --> 01:32:25,800
Speaker 1: don't you don't brace for recoil, uh if if you're

1604
01:32:25,840 --> 01:32:27,639
Speaker 1: aware of when that shot is going to go off.

1605
01:32:27,680 --> 01:32:30,519
Speaker 1: So you're lining up your kisser button, you're looking through

1606
01:32:30,520 --> 01:32:32,439
Speaker 1: the peep site, you're lining in a pin up where

1607
01:32:32,439 --> 01:32:34,720
Speaker 1: you want it. You're gonna say, Okay, I'm gonna pull

1608
01:32:34,760 --> 01:32:38,559
Speaker 1: the trigger. You punch the trigger. You're gonna know that

1609
01:32:38,640 --> 01:32:41,679
Speaker 1: shot is gonna break, and you're gonna naturally brace for

1610
01:32:41,960 --> 01:32:46,040
Speaker 1: that that shot, which causes torking and and all kinds

1611
01:32:46,080 --> 01:32:49,599
Speaker 1: of stuff what and specifically target panics. So as soon

1612
01:32:49,640 --> 01:32:51,800
Speaker 1: as you get a when you know that SHOT's gonna

1613
01:32:51,800 --> 01:32:55,679
Speaker 1: go off, you're gonna you brace, and that's what causes

1614
01:32:55,720 --> 01:32:58,680
Speaker 1: target panic or you're gonna lock off target because you

1615
01:32:58,720 --> 01:33:02,360
Speaker 1: don't want to. You're body's natural mechanism for blocking that

1616
01:33:02,439 --> 01:33:05,320
Speaker 1: shot is going to protect itself and you're not gonna

1617
01:33:05,320 --> 01:33:11,960
Speaker 1: wanna lock on target. So with Joel Turners shot process theory,

1618
01:33:12,000 --> 01:33:15,160
Speaker 1: and it's just it all makes sense, it's all science

1619
01:33:15,240 --> 01:33:17,800
Speaker 1: that but he just kind of set the blueprint for it.

1620
01:33:17,880 --> 01:33:20,840
Speaker 1: So what we try to do is you create a

1621
01:33:20,840 --> 01:33:26,200
Speaker 1: psycho trigger. And what a psycho trigger does is it

1622
01:33:26,280 --> 01:33:31,200
Speaker 1: allows you to not brace for that that shot. So

1623
01:33:32,240 --> 01:33:35,360
Speaker 1: you have to have a psycho trigger. In the traditional

1624
01:33:35,439 --> 01:33:37,880
Speaker 1: archery world, can be a clicker on your bow. So

1625
01:33:38,080 --> 01:33:41,040
Speaker 1: it's a mechanism that goes on a limb and there's

1626
01:33:41,040 --> 01:33:44,960
Speaker 1: a string going to your string and as you draw back,

1627
01:33:45,040 --> 01:33:47,439
Speaker 1: when you hit your anchor and just start to engage

1628
01:33:47,439 --> 01:33:50,240
Speaker 1: your back, the clicker goes off and makes a click.

1629
01:33:50,680 --> 01:33:54,240
Speaker 1: That click tells your your brain to let go, and

1630
01:33:54,400 --> 01:33:59,680
Speaker 1: when that happens, it's such a quick mechanic receptor response

1631
01:33:59,800 --> 01:34:02,040
Speaker 1: that you just let go and you don't brace for

1632
01:34:02,080 --> 01:34:06,600
Speaker 1: this shot. So through all that and psycho triggers or

1633
01:34:06,640 --> 01:34:11,519
Speaker 1: back tension releases and good mantra, which is words you're

1634
01:34:11,520 --> 01:34:14,600
Speaker 1: telling yourself certain words as you go through your shot process,

1635
01:34:15,760 --> 01:34:19,000
Speaker 1: you will not have target panic to the degree that

1636
01:34:19,360 --> 01:34:24,080
Speaker 1: you know you struggle severely with it. It's it's basically

1637
01:34:24,160 --> 01:34:29,120
Speaker 1: the blueprint to get out of target panic. Interesting, and

1638
01:34:29,280 --> 01:34:33,439
Speaker 1: there's there's so there's so many people. I'm sure that

1639
01:34:33,760 --> 01:34:36,599
Speaker 1: this is uh intriguing too, because I think we've all

1640
01:34:37,120 --> 01:34:39,960
Speaker 1: at some point or another head issues UM. And I

1641
01:34:40,000 --> 01:34:41,559
Speaker 1: know a lot of people have tried the back tension

1642
01:34:41,560 --> 01:34:45,800
Speaker 1: releases UM or just you know, all the different things,

1643
01:34:45,840 --> 01:34:48,280
Speaker 1: just blind shooting at hay bales and with your eyes

1644
01:34:48,320 --> 01:34:53,200
Speaker 1: closed and slowly learning to to get that surprise release. UM.

1645
01:34:53,280 --> 01:34:55,160
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's something that I think can be

1646
01:34:55,200 --> 01:34:58,920
Speaker 1: talked about for a long, long long time because there's

1647
01:34:58,920 --> 01:35:01,639
Speaker 1: no secret quick fix and unless maybe the back tension

1648
01:35:01,640 --> 01:35:04,720
Speaker 1: at least I haven't used one. But it's interesting here

1649
01:35:04,720 --> 01:35:07,280
Speaker 1: about this. It all has to do with your conscious

1650
01:35:07,280 --> 01:35:10,679
Speaker 1: and unconscious thoughts. So you want to try to reach

1651
01:35:10,760 --> 01:35:15,200
Speaker 1: that unconscious mind where things just happen naturally. So like

1652
01:35:15,280 --> 01:35:17,160
Speaker 1: with a tread, but you can have that clicker. I

1653
01:35:17,280 --> 01:35:19,160
Speaker 1: use a feather to my nose, so I set my

1654
01:35:19,240 --> 01:35:22,479
Speaker 1: fletching up short of my nose so when I start

1655
01:35:22,520 --> 01:35:24,800
Speaker 1: to engage my back, when that feather touches my nose,

1656
01:35:24,800 --> 01:35:27,960
Speaker 1: that's my indicator to let go. So you know, there's

1657
01:35:28,000 --> 01:35:30,880
Speaker 1: words that you can tell yourself, you know, to get

1658
01:35:30,920 --> 01:35:33,880
Speaker 1: through all that process, but you have to be able

1659
01:35:33,880 --> 01:35:37,200
Speaker 1: to do that day like every single time. UM. So

1660
01:35:37,280 --> 01:35:39,840
Speaker 1: it helps with target panic one is the main thing,

1661
01:35:39,880 --> 01:35:42,439
Speaker 1: but it also you know helps when you're in a

1662
01:35:42,880 --> 01:35:46,439
Speaker 1: in a pressured situation rather shooting competitively or when that

1663
01:35:46,520 --> 01:35:48,760
Speaker 1: animals in front of you, A lot of people just

1664
01:35:48,800 --> 01:35:54,320
Speaker 1: black out and they don't remember anything and they don't

1665
01:35:54,320 --> 01:35:56,920
Speaker 1: know why they you know, threw a shot or missed

1666
01:35:56,920 --> 01:36:00,280
Speaker 1: a shot, and it's because they don't have control their

1667
01:36:00,400 --> 01:36:04,080
Speaker 1: entire shot. So yeah, yeah, I finally for myself, I

1668
01:36:04,280 --> 01:36:06,400
Speaker 1: had the exact same same thing I would. I would

1669
01:36:06,439 --> 01:36:10,479
Speaker 1: almost like black out in the moment um and early on,

1670
01:36:10,600 --> 01:36:13,240
Speaker 1: especially when I was trying and just getting into archery,

1671
01:36:13,439 --> 01:36:15,599
Speaker 1: and then when I made the switch trying and target

1672
01:36:15,600 --> 01:36:18,120
Speaker 1: mature bucks, like leading up to the moments, it was

1673
01:36:18,200 --> 01:36:20,679
Speaker 1: like really nerve wracking. You had that serious buck fever.

1674
01:36:21,320 --> 01:36:25,080
Speaker 1: And the more experience I got, the more it became

1675
01:36:25,120 --> 01:36:27,280
Speaker 1: a process, and it became a process that was so

1676
01:36:27,520 --> 01:36:29,840
Speaker 1: ingrained in me mentally from doing it so many times.

1677
01:36:30,000 --> 01:36:32,160
Speaker 1: I didn't have to think about it, like I knew

1678
01:36:32,200 --> 01:36:34,439
Speaker 1: it was like when I saw a shooter buck, I

1679
01:36:34,439 --> 01:36:36,439
Speaker 1: switched to like I call it like business time, like

1680
01:36:36,520 --> 01:36:39,280
Speaker 1: this business mode, and it's just like okay, this, now, this,

1681
01:36:39,479 --> 01:36:41,920
Speaker 1: now this, and I wasn't necessary thinking about it, but

1682
01:36:41,960 --> 01:36:44,000
Speaker 1: I had a process I was going through. Yet I

1683
01:36:44,040 --> 01:36:46,840
Speaker 1: had control over it, and that's been like, that's where

1684
01:36:46,840 --> 01:36:50,000
Speaker 1: I've been continued to fine tune it is is have

1685
01:36:50,080 --> 01:36:53,519
Speaker 1: a flow and you don't want to be overthinking anything,

1686
01:36:53,520 --> 01:36:55,839
Speaker 1: but at the same time, you still want to maintain control,

1687
01:36:55,960 --> 01:36:57,720
Speaker 1: and I think the only way you can do that

1688
01:36:57,840 --> 01:37:00,280
Speaker 1: is to establish a process enough shot seek ones like

1689
01:37:00,320 --> 01:37:03,519
Speaker 1: you're talking about, and then practices so many times both

1690
01:37:03,960 --> 01:37:06,920
Speaker 1: just shooting and then also actually executing it in the

1691
01:37:07,000 --> 01:37:10,120
Speaker 1: field on an animal. The more you do those two

1692
01:37:10,160 --> 01:37:13,880
Speaker 1: things with that set process in mind, I think the

1693
01:37:13,920 --> 01:37:17,920
Speaker 1: better you can get at at handling those situations. Absolutely.

1694
01:37:18,280 --> 01:37:20,680
Speaker 1: That's that's what it's all about, is being able to

1695
01:37:20,680 --> 01:37:24,160
Speaker 1: do that, and some guys can't. And that's where you know,

1696
01:37:24,439 --> 01:37:28,680
Speaker 1: the system early really helps. And I wasn't introduced to

1697
01:37:28,720 --> 01:37:32,840
Speaker 1: this system until this past year actually, but I found

1698
01:37:32,840 --> 01:37:36,200
Speaker 1: myself doing a lot of those things. And you know,

1699
01:37:36,240 --> 01:37:38,439
Speaker 1: the biggest thing is is if you you don't have

1700
01:37:38,600 --> 01:37:41,200
Speaker 1: to shoot that aerial just because you drew back that

1701
01:37:41,280 --> 01:37:43,519
Speaker 1: but it doesn't mean you have to shoot it. Everything

1702
01:37:43,640 --> 01:37:46,720
Speaker 1: has to line up perfectly and you have to hit

1703
01:37:46,760 --> 01:37:50,880
Speaker 1: your your mantra or your sequence and all your things

1704
01:37:50,880 --> 01:37:52,439
Speaker 1: that you tell your stuff. You have to hit those

1705
01:37:52,479 --> 01:37:55,519
Speaker 1: and if you don't, you let down. Uh. So you

1706
01:37:55,600 --> 01:37:57,280
Speaker 1: have to have control of that, and if you can

1707
01:37:57,320 --> 01:38:00,760
Speaker 1: get control, you can save your self a lot. So

1708
01:38:00,880 --> 01:38:04,360
Speaker 1: I I had control, but I didn't I didn't know

1709
01:38:04,439 --> 01:38:07,840
Speaker 1: about the psycho triggers. I didn't realize and it made

1710
01:38:07,880 --> 01:38:09,880
Speaker 1: total sense when he started to explain it to me.

1711
01:38:10,000 --> 01:38:12,519
Speaker 1: But when when you have a psycho trigger and you

1712
01:38:12,560 --> 01:38:16,479
Speaker 1: start to use it, it is so hard to say, oh,

1713
01:38:16,560 --> 01:38:19,840
Speaker 1: that looks good and shoot. I mean it's just so

1714
01:38:19,880 --> 01:38:24,040
Speaker 1: hard because you're you're tapping into that conscious or unconscious thoughts.

1715
01:38:24,120 --> 01:38:28,280
Speaker 1: So it's pretty cool. Does something that, ever, though, cause

1716
01:38:28,280 --> 01:38:31,160
Speaker 1: you to rush a shot? You know, we're like in

1717
01:38:31,200 --> 01:38:33,160
Speaker 1: your example where you said as soon as that feather

1718
01:38:33,240 --> 01:38:37,760
Speaker 1: touches your nose, you touch off? What if? So yeah,

1719
01:38:38,439 --> 01:38:41,320
Speaker 1: that's where you get the mantra. So you know mine

1720
01:38:41,439 --> 01:38:44,800
Speaker 1: is you know, I I draw back and get there.

1721
01:38:44,840 --> 01:38:46,960
Speaker 1: That's my first thing. Drop back and get there, I

1722
01:38:47,000 --> 01:38:50,240
Speaker 1: tell myself. So I get back to my anchor, and

1723
01:38:50,280 --> 01:38:52,519
Speaker 1: then I say watch it, keep it. So when I

1724
01:38:52,600 --> 01:38:54,639
Speaker 1: get the site picture that I want with a trad

1725
01:38:54,720 --> 01:38:57,560
Speaker 1: bill which with a compounded being, you know, putting a

1726
01:38:57,600 --> 01:38:59,040
Speaker 1: pen where you want to look in through the peep

1727
01:38:59,080 --> 01:39:01,000
Speaker 1: site line and to pin up, blinding your rings up

1728
01:39:01,640 --> 01:39:03,639
Speaker 1: with a trap. Ooh, it's the site picture I want.

1729
01:39:04,040 --> 01:39:05,920
Speaker 1: And all you have to do is say watch it,

1730
01:39:06,040 --> 01:39:10,519
Speaker 1: keep it, and then I say keep pulling, keep pulling,

1731
01:39:10,640 --> 01:39:12,920
Speaker 1: keep pulling, and when that feather hits my nose, it

1732
01:39:12,960 --> 01:39:17,439
Speaker 1: goes off. You think about you know, and I'm quoting

1733
01:39:17,560 --> 01:39:19,760
Speaker 1: Jewel on a lot of this stuff, but when you

1734
01:39:19,800 --> 01:39:23,040
Speaker 1: think about aiming, if you take your finger and put

1735
01:39:23,040 --> 01:39:28,920
Speaker 1: it on an object, you naturally keep that finger on

1736
01:39:29,040 --> 01:39:33,000
Speaker 1: that object. It'll keep going back to the center. All right.

1737
01:39:33,320 --> 01:39:39,639
Speaker 1: So guys over aim they concentrate on aiming so so much.

1738
01:39:39,640 --> 01:39:41,920
Speaker 1: When we naturally do it. You think about driving down

1739
01:39:41,920 --> 01:39:45,160
Speaker 1: the road, you don't think about staying between the lines.

1740
01:39:45,840 --> 01:39:50,599
Speaker 1: Your brain just naturally stays between the lines. So guys

1741
01:39:50,600 --> 01:39:54,960
Speaker 1: are aiming way too hard. When you're naturally, if you

1742
01:39:55,040 --> 01:39:58,120
Speaker 1: say to yourself, watch it, keep it, and put that

1743
01:39:58,160 --> 01:40:00,920
Speaker 1: pin where you want it, you're and naturally, if you

1744
01:40:00,960 --> 01:40:03,000
Speaker 1: start to veer to left, it's going to naturally get

1745
01:40:03,000 --> 01:40:06,280
Speaker 1: back to where you want it. Uh So it's locking

1746
01:40:06,320 --> 01:40:08,679
Speaker 1: in that bell arm. Watch it to keep it, keep pulling,

1747
01:40:08,760 --> 01:40:12,439
Speaker 1: keep pulling, and letting that shot go off naturally same

1748
01:40:12,479 --> 01:40:16,639
Speaker 1: with a rifle. Bracing for impact. You know you're applying

1749
01:40:16,760 --> 01:40:19,479
Speaker 1: general pressure to that trigger. You just don't punch the trigger,

1750
01:40:19,479 --> 01:40:22,320
Speaker 1: you're just pressure pressure, pressure. It goes off and you

1751
01:40:22,360 --> 01:40:24,639
Speaker 1: don't even realize that went off. And when you get

1752
01:40:24,680 --> 01:40:28,080
Speaker 1: that surprise release a lot of times that that bullets

1753
01:40:28,240 --> 01:40:30,479
Speaker 1: right where you want it. Huh. And it's the same

1754
01:40:30,520 --> 01:40:34,040
Speaker 1: with a bell if you practice it. Yeah, it's like

1755
01:40:34,200 --> 01:40:37,080
Speaker 1: that concept of floating the pin. You don't need it

1756
01:40:37,160 --> 01:40:40,839
Speaker 1: absolutely locked. Like you said, over aimed on one target,

1757
01:40:40,920 --> 01:40:46,320
Speaker 1: keeper one spot, keeping crystal. Still it's picking a spot

1758
01:40:46,400 --> 01:40:49,200
Speaker 1: in your mind's eye looking at that, but you know,

1759
01:40:49,240 --> 01:40:52,479
Speaker 1: allowing it to float naturally, right Because to your point,

1760
01:40:52,479 --> 01:40:55,400
Speaker 1: when you when you over aim and you're you're forcing

1761
01:40:55,439 --> 01:40:58,519
Speaker 1: something that's nearly impossible, you end up probably pulling it

1762
01:40:58,640 --> 01:41:00,600
Speaker 1: or pushing it in some way because doing something that

1763
01:41:00,640 --> 01:41:04,160
Speaker 1: the body just can't do and exactly, and and the

1764
01:41:04,280 --> 01:41:07,400
Speaker 1: big thing is is right when you're setting it up,

1765
01:41:07,760 --> 01:41:09,840
Speaker 1: you have to tell yourself, I don't have to shoot

1766
01:41:09,880 --> 01:41:13,600
Speaker 1: this arrow. So if at any point of that sequence

1767
01:41:14,520 --> 01:41:17,479
Speaker 1: I get unwanted thought in my head that is not

1768
01:41:18,160 --> 01:41:21,720
Speaker 1: get there, watch it, keep it, keep pulling. And as

1769
01:41:21,720 --> 01:41:23,920
Speaker 1: I'm keep pulling. If I think, when's that feather going

1770
01:41:24,000 --> 01:41:26,000
Speaker 1: to touch my nose? I need to let down because

1771
01:41:26,040 --> 01:41:29,760
Speaker 1: it's an unwanted thought. So if if you go through

1772
01:41:29,800 --> 01:41:33,360
Speaker 1: that that sequence like you should and tell yourself those phrases,

1773
01:41:34,280 --> 01:41:37,160
Speaker 1: and everything goes well and the shot goes off great,

1774
01:41:37,800 --> 01:41:40,280
Speaker 1: and you're gonna have a good shot. But if you

1775
01:41:40,320 --> 01:41:42,680
Speaker 1: get those unwanted thoughts and stuff like that, then you

1776
01:41:42,720 --> 01:41:45,360
Speaker 1: need to let down. And and that's where the practice

1777
01:41:45,400 --> 01:41:48,080
Speaker 1: comes in. You really have to. You know, this isn't

1778
01:41:48,720 --> 01:41:51,799
Speaker 1: a fifteen arrow type of thing. You got to shoot

1779
01:41:51,840 --> 01:41:54,920
Speaker 1: thousands of arrows this way to get it ingrained into

1780
01:41:54,960 --> 01:41:58,519
Speaker 1: your system. But once you do, it's so hard to

1781
01:41:59,080 --> 01:42:04,400
Speaker 1: go back to an like an uncontrolled shop process. Yeah,

1782
01:42:04,520 --> 01:42:06,960
Speaker 1: I really like what you said. They're about the fact

1783
01:42:07,000 --> 01:42:09,360
Speaker 1: that you do not need to shoot this arrow, and

1784
01:42:09,400 --> 01:42:11,400
Speaker 1: I think that is lost on a lot of people.

1785
01:42:11,920 --> 01:42:16,720
Speaker 1: And it's it's it's I think because so many of us,

1786
01:42:17,360 --> 01:42:20,280
Speaker 1: because we love hunting so much, and we we put

1787
01:42:20,400 --> 01:42:25,759
Speaker 1: so much time and effort and um energy into trying

1788
01:42:25,800 --> 01:42:29,280
Speaker 1: to have that one single moment come together that I

1789
01:42:29,320 --> 01:42:30,880
Speaker 1: think a lot of us feel like as soon as

1790
01:42:30,880 --> 01:42:34,040
Speaker 1: that moments there, you just gotta gotta make it happen.

1791
01:42:34,640 --> 01:42:36,320
Speaker 1: You know, you hear some people talk about and it

1792
01:42:36,360 --> 01:42:38,479
Speaker 1: was now or never, so I just a let of

1793
01:42:38,600 --> 01:42:42,080
Speaker 1: a let of rip um. You hear so many times

1794
01:42:42,080 --> 01:42:45,280
Speaker 1: that type of thing happening, where it's not an ideal situation,

1795
01:42:45,479 --> 01:42:47,639
Speaker 1: or you feel like, well, there's only this tiny little

1796
01:42:47,640 --> 01:42:50,840
Speaker 1: place I can slip it through, and I don't know.

1797
01:42:50,880 --> 01:42:53,719
Speaker 1: You hear stories like that, and I've been in there too.

1798
01:42:53,840 --> 01:42:57,679
Speaker 1: You hear stories like that where it works out and

1799
01:42:57,800 --> 01:43:00,679
Speaker 1: they killed the buck. But I would I would venture

1800
01:43:00,720 --> 01:43:04,720
Speaker 1: to guess that seven out of those ten times, the

1801
01:43:04,760 --> 01:43:07,400
Speaker 1: wrong thing happens, which is you missed the deer or

1802
01:43:07,439 --> 01:43:10,439
Speaker 1: you wound a deer, and you know that's an arrow.

1803
01:43:10,560 --> 01:43:12,360
Speaker 1: You can never take back an arrow when you wound

1804
01:43:12,360 --> 01:43:15,240
Speaker 1: a deer. And I think a lot of us would

1805
01:43:15,280 --> 01:43:19,240
Speaker 1: be would be better served. And I think obviously the

1806
01:43:20,800 --> 01:43:23,280
Speaker 1: hunting as a as a culture in community, I think

1807
01:43:23,360 --> 01:43:25,320
Speaker 1: a lot of us would be better served if if

1808
01:43:25,320 --> 01:43:27,840
Speaker 1: we could all be reminded of that a little more often,

1809
01:43:27,880 --> 01:43:30,160
Speaker 1: that you can't take an arrow back. You don't need

1810
01:43:30,200 --> 01:43:32,720
Speaker 1: to touch that trigger, you don't need to release if

1811
01:43:32,760 --> 01:43:35,880
Speaker 1: it's not right, If you can't make that ethical, you know,

1812
01:43:36,000 --> 01:43:40,840
Speaker 1: kill um it's not worth forcing it. Yeah, it's exactly it.

1813
01:43:40,840 --> 01:43:44,200
Speaker 1: It all comes down to ethics and and well I've

1814
01:43:44,240 --> 01:43:47,280
Speaker 1: been there, I've I've said the same thing though, this

1815
01:43:47,360 --> 01:43:50,040
Speaker 1: is now or never, let's let's let it go, and

1816
01:43:50,160 --> 01:43:51,800
Speaker 1: most of the time it doesn't work out the way

1817
01:43:51,840 --> 01:43:54,679
Speaker 1: you wanted to. So if you can do this controlled

1818
01:43:54,680 --> 01:43:58,400
Speaker 1: shot process I wanted, it gives you a sense of

1819
01:43:58,479 --> 01:44:01,120
Speaker 1: calmness when that animal comes because you don't know if

1820
01:44:01,120 --> 01:44:03,240
Speaker 1: you're gonna shoot that arrow or not. You're only going

1821
01:44:03,320 --> 01:44:05,559
Speaker 1: to shoot it is if if things go the way

1822
01:44:05,560 --> 01:44:09,919
Speaker 1: that you have planned, so you know, with that thought process,

1823
01:44:10,000 --> 01:44:12,479
Speaker 1: it's just because that deers in front of it doesn't

1824
01:44:12,479 --> 01:44:15,360
Speaker 1: mean like it's right now it's going to happen. You's

1825
01:44:15,400 --> 01:44:19,080
Speaker 1: still got to go through the process. So it's pretty cool.

1826
01:44:19,120 --> 01:44:22,200
Speaker 1: But again I'm I'm paraphrasing a lot of jewel stuff.

1827
01:44:22,280 --> 01:44:25,880
Speaker 1: So that is Jewel Turner and iron Mind hunting dot

1828
01:44:25,920 --> 01:44:29,040
Speaker 1: com or iron Mind Academy something like that. If you

1829
01:44:29,120 --> 01:44:31,360
Speaker 1: do any type of search for Jewel Turner Hill his

1830
01:44:31,400 --> 01:44:35,120
Speaker 1: stuff will come up very cool, interesting, interesting stuff. And

1831
01:44:35,160 --> 01:44:37,599
Speaker 1: it's it's it's very relevant even for me and Dan

1832
01:44:37,760 --> 01:44:40,559
Speaker 1: because we're just talking about how you know, We're really

1833
01:44:40,560 --> 01:44:42,800
Speaker 1: getting into the heart of our archery practice now with

1834
01:44:42,840 --> 01:44:45,840
Speaker 1: our compounds and all these different things, whether it be

1835
01:44:45,920 --> 01:44:49,000
Speaker 1: dialing in your equipment or improving your shot sequence and

1836
01:44:49,040 --> 01:44:51,439
Speaker 1: how you practice. Um, no matter what kind of bowl

1837
01:44:51,479 --> 01:44:53,360
Speaker 1: you shoot, I think this stuff is is important to

1838
01:44:53,400 --> 01:44:55,439
Speaker 1: be thinking about. So I'm glad that we're able to

1839
01:44:55,439 --> 01:44:58,639
Speaker 1: talk about this with you. Kevin, Yeah, absolutely, And Dan,

1840
01:44:58,720 --> 01:45:01,920
Speaker 1: do you have any final question or thoughts for Kevin

1841
01:45:02,000 --> 01:45:07,840
Speaker 1: vod wrapp things up? If someday I do go from

1842
01:45:07,920 --> 01:45:13,760
Speaker 1: compound to trad, does it make me cooler? Like? Who

1843
01:45:13,760 --> 01:45:18,040
Speaker 1: are who are the cooler guys? Are trad guys cooler

1844
01:45:18,240 --> 01:45:26,200
Speaker 1: or our compound guys cooler? You know? I don't. I

1845
01:45:26,240 --> 01:45:31,160
Speaker 1: don't discriminate, you know, but we always like to say,

1846
01:45:31,200 --> 01:45:38,080
Speaker 1: you guys still have the training wheels on, so so

1847
01:45:38,160 --> 01:45:43,240
Speaker 1: it goes I'm probably sported my training wheels, but hey,

1848
01:45:43,280 --> 01:45:47,040
Speaker 1: nothing wrong with that. I actually, uh, my good friend

1849
01:45:47,080 --> 01:45:49,760
Speaker 1: Wade James. I went over to his place the other

1850
01:45:49,800 --> 01:45:52,599
Speaker 1: day and Wade's making the switch to trad this year

1851
01:45:52,640 --> 01:45:54,920
Speaker 1: and he had his prime there and it was the

1852
01:45:54,960 --> 01:45:58,200
Speaker 1: first time that I shot a compound in like seven year,

1853
01:45:58,400 --> 01:46:02,640
Speaker 1: six seven years whatever it was, And uh, way. It's like,

1854
01:46:02,640 --> 01:46:04,439
Speaker 1: if I'm gonna shoot all your stick, but you have

1855
01:46:04,560 --> 01:46:07,080
Speaker 1: to shoot my my compound. I was like, no, I

1856
01:46:07,160 --> 01:46:11,400
Speaker 1: am not, and I picked it up and shot it.

1857
01:46:11,600 --> 01:46:16,559
Speaker 1: And you know, it's amazing how far technology has come

1858
01:46:17,439 --> 01:46:22,240
Speaker 1: since I shot compounds six years ago. And I have

1859
01:46:22,439 --> 01:46:26,000
Speaker 1: to admit it, it felt pretty sweet to shoot a bow,

1860
01:46:26,680 --> 01:46:30,760
Speaker 1: shoot a bow that you know it's and you can

1861
01:46:30,760 --> 01:46:33,160
Speaker 1: get traditional bows that are smooth and have no hand

1862
01:46:33,240 --> 01:46:36,280
Speaker 1: shock and everything else, but it doesn't compare to a compound.

1863
01:46:37,120 --> 01:46:39,040
Speaker 1: Uh So it's kind of cool to shoot that and

1864
01:46:39,120 --> 01:46:41,960
Speaker 1: not have any you know, recoil or anything like that.

1865
01:46:42,000 --> 01:46:44,360
Speaker 1: A matter of fact, I was like, did did I

1866
01:46:44,360 --> 01:46:48,479
Speaker 1: shoot it? You know? It was crazy, But it's fun.

1867
01:46:49,200 --> 01:46:53,559
Speaker 1: You got you gotta love it. Whether you're shooting stick

1868
01:46:53,640 --> 01:46:56,599
Speaker 1: or sticking strings, sticking stringing wheels, it is just fun

1869
01:46:56,600 --> 01:46:59,479
Speaker 1: to be shooting a bowl and out there for the

1870
01:46:59,520 --> 01:47:02,920
Speaker 1: same reason. Yeah, I love it, and I think I think,

1871
01:47:03,120 --> 01:47:05,080
Speaker 1: right as soon as I hit stop on this recording,

1872
01:47:05,120 --> 01:47:06,800
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go out there and shoot my bow because

1873
01:47:06,800 --> 01:47:10,160
Speaker 1: this has got me excited. So so, Kevin, thank you,

1874
01:47:10,520 --> 01:47:13,479
Speaker 1: thank you for chatting with us about White Tales and

1875
01:47:13,600 --> 01:47:16,599
Speaker 1: what you're doing with with a stick and string. And

1876
01:47:16,640 --> 01:47:18,960
Speaker 1: if people want to hear more of what you've got

1877
01:47:18,960 --> 01:47:20,680
Speaker 1: going on, if they want to chut out the podcast

1878
01:47:20,760 --> 01:47:24,759
Speaker 1: or the website, where can they go. Yeah, track geeks

1879
01:47:24,800 --> 01:47:28,240
Speaker 1: dot com, Track Geeks podcast on iTunes, Stitcher, Google Play,

1880
01:47:28,320 --> 01:47:34,840
Speaker 1: all that good stuff, Instagram, trag Geeks, Underscore, Calm, Facebook, Uh,

1881
01:47:34,960 --> 01:47:40,280
Speaker 1: pretty much all the social media outlets we cover. So yeah,

1882
01:47:40,280 --> 01:47:43,880
Speaker 1: that's about it. Mark, awesome, Well, Kevin, we appreciate taking

1883
01:47:43,880 --> 01:47:45,280
Speaker 1: the time to do. This has been a lot of

1884
01:47:45,320 --> 01:47:48,519
Speaker 1: fun and hopefully we'll be hearing about some great stories

1885
01:47:48,520 --> 01:47:50,720
Speaker 1: from you this fall. With a nice p a white

1886
01:47:50,720 --> 01:47:55,040
Speaker 1: tail undernath your bow sounds great. Thanks guys, And there

1887
01:47:55,080 --> 01:47:59,680
Speaker 1: you guys go. Another episode. A hundred and fifty four episodes.

1888
01:47:59,760 --> 01:48:02,559
Speaker 1: That's pretty crazy. I gotta I gotta tell you, I'm

1889
01:48:02,600 --> 01:48:05,439
Speaker 1: amazed and very appreciative that so many of you have

1890
01:48:05,560 --> 01:48:08,559
Speaker 1: stuck with us from the very beginning and listen to

1891
01:48:08,640 --> 01:48:11,479
Speaker 1: us for years and years now all the way through. Uh,

1892
01:48:11,520 --> 01:48:13,800
Speaker 1: that is pretty cool, So so thank you for that.

1893
01:48:14,120 --> 01:48:16,280
Speaker 1: A couple of quick plugs before we go. Like I

1894
01:48:16,360 --> 01:48:20,200
Speaker 1: mentioned last week, social media, we're putting a lot more

1895
01:48:20,320 --> 01:48:23,439
Speaker 1: time and energy into what we're doing on the social channels,

1896
01:48:23,439 --> 01:48:24,840
Speaker 1: and we would love to connect with you there and

1897
01:48:24,840 --> 01:48:26,559
Speaker 1: that it was really the best place and the best

1898
01:48:26,640 --> 01:48:29,719
Speaker 1: way to connect with us to to get a question asked,

1899
01:48:29,880 --> 01:48:33,519
Speaker 1: or to give us feedback, or to follow what's happening.

1900
01:48:33,880 --> 01:48:36,280
Speaker 1: We are posting a ton there on the Facebook page,

1901
01:48:36,520 --> 01:48:39,639
Speaker 1: new links to new content, videos, etcetera. That's the place

1902
01:48:39,680 --> 01:48:42,360
Speaker 1: to do it. Uh. Instagram is where there's lots of

1903
01:48:42,360 --> 01:48:44,960
Speaker 1: photography and updates from what I'm actually up to up

1904
01:48:44,960 --> 01:48:47,840
Speaker 1: out in the woods. YouTube is where videos are going.

1905
01:48:47,960 --> 01:48:50,439
Speaker 1: I'm restarting the video blog trying to do more there,

1906
01:48:50,479 --> 01:48:52,679
Speaker 1: so check those out. And on Twitter, of course, I'm

1907
01:48:52,800 --> 01:48:55,080
Speaker 1: I'm applying to quick questions and things like that. So

1908
01:48:55,160 --> 01:48:57,560
Speaker 1: search why You're to Hunt on any one of those platforms,

1909
01:48:57,600 --> 01:49:00,240
Speaker 1: and I would love to connect with you there. Also,

1910
01:49:00,280 --> 01:49:02,559
Speaker 1: be sure to check out that holy Field film I

1911
01:49:02,600 --> 01:49:06,000
Speaker 1: mentioned last week. I think you guys will enjoy it. Finally,

1912
01:49:06,840 --> 01:49:08,320
Speaker 1: I want to give a big thank you to our

1913
01:49:08,400 --> 01:49:12,160
Speaker 1: partners who helped keep this podcast on the air. Big

1914
01:49:12,200 --> 01:49:15,679
Speaker 1: big things to sit a gear YETI Cooler's, Matthew's Archery,

1915
01:49:15,920 --> 01:49:20,040
Speaker 1: Maven Optics, Whitetail, Institute of North America, Trophy Ridge and

1916
01:49:20,200 --> 01:49:23,360
Speaker 1: Hunt Terra Maps and finally, like I mentioned just a

1917
01:49:23,439 --> 01:49:27,400
Speaker 1: few seconds ago, thank you so much for listening. I

1918
01:49:27,479 --> 01:49:29,720
Speaker 1: hope you enjoyed this one. I hope your summer, dear

1919
01:49:29,800 --> 01:49:33,240
Speaker 1: projects are coming along nicely, and I hope you'll stay

1920
01:49:33,840 --> 01:49:34,639
Speaker 1: wired to hunt