1 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:09,680 Speaker 1: Hey, it's Stephanie back with another bonus episode. In May 2 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 1: twenty twenty five, Laura Owens was indicted on seven felony 3 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 1: charges in the state of Arizona. Those charges were all 4 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:20,920 Speaker 1: related to her conduct with Clayton Eckerd. The Maricopa County 5 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: Attorney's Office shopped everyone when they released a one hundred 6 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 1: and eighteen page investigation report detailing the evidence they found 7 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 1: to support those charges, which you heard about in episode ten. 8 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: Last week, I caught up with Clayton's attorney, Greg Woodennick 9 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:39,720 Speaker 1: to dive into the jaw dropping investigation report a little deeper. 10 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:50,879 Speaker 1: So in episode ten, we obviously talk about the investigation 11 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 1: report that the Maricopa County Attorney's Office released. It was 12 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 1: released in January of twenty twenty six. I guess my 13 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 1: first question for you is did you reach it and 14 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 1: as you were reading it what stood out to you? 15 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 2: So much of it stuck out to me, but more 16 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:10,759 Speaker 2: than the data that I was reading from the investigators 17 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:15,360 Speaker 2: was how I felt. It was just unbelievably affirming to 18 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 2: see that what we had suspected for so many years 19 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 2: was so much worse than we suspected. 20 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 1: Is it normal to see an investigation report like this. 21 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 2: I see investigative reports all the time because I defend people, 22 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 2: and when you defend people, you're entitled to see the 23 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:34,800 Speaker 2: work product of the investigator. So I see these sorts 24 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 2: of reports all the time. This was particularly detailed, and 25 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:42,399 Speaker 2: obviously was extra interesting to me because I'd been dealing 26 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:46,480 Speaker 2: with Clayton previously, Greg, and had gotten to know Michael Marriccini, 27 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 2: and even had knowledge of another victim, so seeing this 28 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 2: in writing was quite something. 29 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 1: This is obviously a very cumbersome investigative report. There are 30 00:01:57,080 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 1: one hundred and eighteen pages. There are a lot of 31 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 1: inner views in here, including Clayton, Greg Gillespie, Laura's mom, 32 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 1: jan Black. I don't see an interview on these pages 33 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 1: from you. Did you do an interview with the Maricopa 34 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 1: County investigators? 35 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 2: I didn't formally interview with them, but obviously I knew 36 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 2: that there was an open investigation. 37 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:21,240 Speaker 1: You were also listed as a witness for the upcoming 38 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 1: criminal trial. How do they tell you that you're a witness? 39 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 2: Like? 40 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:26,080 Speaker 1: How did you find out that you were on the 41 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:26,800 Speaker 1: witness list? 42 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 2: I think I saw it the way everyone else did. 43 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 2: The document became public, I saw my name there, and 44 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 2: I was absolutely not surprised. It was obvious to me 45 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 2: that they would list me as a witness. Whether or 46 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 2: not I testify is a different question and certainly not 47 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 2: a decision that I get to make. It's a decision 48 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 2: that the prosecutor makes and or obviously, Laura's welcome to 49 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:48,240 Speaker 2: call me as a witness. I will testify truthfully and 50 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:49,919 Speaker 2: answer questions to the best of my ability. 51 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 1: There were sixty four people on the witness list. I 52 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:55,800 Speaker 1: was surprised to see that many names on the list. 53 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:57,640 Speaker 1: Were you surprised to see that many names? 54 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:00,640 Speaker 2: I think it's a testament to how many people have 55 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 2: been involved and harmed by the behavior. 56 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 1: Just because there's sixty four people on this witness list, 57 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that they'll all be called to testify 58 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:10,680 Speaker 1: right now. 59 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:14,080 Speaker 2: In fact, I think sometimes prosecutors list everyone they're supposed 60 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 2: to share, all potential witnesses, and I'm assuming that's what 61 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:19,960 Speaker 2: they did. It's very possible that I don't get called, 62 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:22,239 Speaker 2: But if the trial does go forward, I think a 63 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 2: decent amount of those people may be called as witnesses. 64 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 2: It all depends on how the trial plays out. 65 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 1: As you're reading through these one hundred and eighteen pages. 66 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 1: You obviously said that a lot of the things that 67 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 1: your office had looked into were affirmed once you read that. 68 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 1: Was there anything specifically that really stood out to you? 69 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 2: Three letters hCG. 70 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 1: And what was interesting in there about the hCG. 71 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 2: I think Laura is going to have some explaining to 72 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 2: do should she choose to testify. 73 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:55,839 Speaker 1: As we go through the investigation report, there's a lot 74 00:03:55,880 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 1: of instances where the deposition you did with Laura on March, 75 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:04,839 Speaker 1: which first was cited. How does it feel that your 76 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 1: deposition and your questioning showed up so many times? 77 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 2: We didn't know what we know. That's the odd thing 78 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 2: about this. I brought Laura in for a deposition to 79 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 2: ask her questions. We obviously knew about Michael Marriccini. I 80 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:24,839 Speaker 2: obviously knew quite well about Greg Gillespie. I was shocked 81 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 2: to learn about Matt. I mean just shocked to learn 82 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 2: about Matt, which is weird because we suspected there was 83 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 2: someone else. But her blase presentation about there being a 84 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:41,039 Speaker 2: fourth man who had accused her of fabricating a pregnancy 85 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:44,480 Speaker 2: or whatever her testimony was was a bit shocking. I mean, 86 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:47,160 Speaker 2: I remember turning to Isabelle and locking eyes with her, 87 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 2: wondering if that actually had just happened. I don't think 88 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 2: that's captured on the audio of the deposition transcript, but 89 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 2: I remember literally being like, what the fuck just happened. 90 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 2: I think we actually took a break and walked into 91 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:02,920 Speaker 2: my office disgusted because we were both so like, holy cow, 92 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:05,479 Speaker 2: there's four men who have claimed this, the fact that 93 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:09,160 Speaker 2: the deposition is important to the investigation. I mean, I'm 94 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:10,719 Speaker 2: glad I could provide it. I just did what I 95 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 2: normally would do in a deposition, which is we prepared 96 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:14,279 Speaker 2: for it. I knew what we were going to ask. 97 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 2: I knew that the territory that I was going to cover. 98 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 2: Don't know that Laura should have answered all the questions 99 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 2: that I asked her. Maybe that's a better question. I've 100 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:23,720 Speaker 2: kind of been surprised along the way that she hasn't 101 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 2: taken some advice and invoked I think I advised her 102 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:29,479 Speaker 2: during her deposition two or three times that she didn't 103 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 2: have to answer questions and that the answers to her 104 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 2: questions could be used against her in a criminal process. 105 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 2: A lot of times, when people are faced with the 106 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 2: prospect of felony prosecution. They choose not to answer questions 107 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 2: and they invoke their Fifth Amendment right. But Laura did 108 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:46,240 Speaker 2: not do that in the deposition, which I think was 109 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:49,480 Speaker 2: probably tremendously helpful to the investigators. 110 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 1: Something else we see in the investigation report is that 111 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 1: the pregnant belly video was her sister Sarah's. We also 112 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 1: see that the ultrasound that use was her sister Sarah's. 113 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 1: That being said, I know you spent years investigating this 114 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 1: in your office for Clayton's case. Did you ever speak 115 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 1: with Sarah? 116 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:13,839 Speaker 2: I never spoke with Sarah. 117 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 1: Did you ever try to reach out to her sister Sarah? 118 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 2: Of course, of course I did. I think I sent 119 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 2: her a couple of femails and no response. No, no response. 120 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 1: Greg Woodnick emailed Sarah Owens Navarro on February twenty sixth, 121 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 1: twenty twenty four. I'd like to share an excerpt from 122 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 1: that email. Here's what Woodnick wrote, as I trust you 123 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 1: are aware my office represents Clayton ECKERD in the legal 124 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 1: matter involving your sister, Laura Owens, currently pending in Arizona. 125 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 1: I am assuming you do not want to be involved 126 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:47,919 Speaker 1: in this mess, but I think you may already be 127 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 1: and are not aware. While I am sure you know 128 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 1: some of what has occurred, multiple men have alleged that 129 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:57,480 Speaker 1: your sister fabricated pregnancies and medical documents to support her 130 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:01,479 Speaker 1: pregnancy fiction. In the current matter, your sister reached out 131 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:04,839 Speaker 1: directly to the media claiming that mister Eckerd was ignoring 132 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 1: her quote unquote twins. Paternity tests failed to confirm a 133 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 1: pregnancy existed, while the media attention she initiated caused other 134 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 1: men to find one another and compare notes. Those notes 135 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 1: show a pattern of faked pregnancies as a ruse to 136 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 1: force relationships, including Laura creating relationship quote unquote contracts assuring 137 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 1: promises of an abortion if these men agreed to date her, 138 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: and alleged falsified medical records. While of course you bear 139 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 1: no responsibility for the behavior of your sister, it has 140 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 1: been brought to our attention that Laura has presented videos that, 141 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: upon close inspection, appeared to be of use celebrating your 142 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:46,080 Speaker 1: pregnancy at roughly twenty five to thirty weeks with your 143 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 1: father Ron, and has been claiming the videos are of herself. 144 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 1: Laura's actions are about to land her with very unpleasant 145 00:07:54,160 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 1: legal consequences, including possible criminal perjury charges. Just to put 146 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 1: this into perspective, this email was written four months before 147 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 1: Clayton and Laura's family trial and over a year before 148 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 1: Laura was indicted on felony charges, including perjury in the 149 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 1: state of Arizona. Sarah never responded to Woodnick, but we 150 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: know she received the email. That's because a Freedom of 151 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 1: Information Act request uncovered a bar complaint Laura filed against 152 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 1: Greg Woodnick. In that bar complaint, Laura acknowledged that her 153 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 1: sister received an email from Woodnick. There was another part 154 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:35,040 Speaker 1: of the investigation report that I wanted to talk about 155 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:38,599 Speaker 1: with Woodnick. It involves the allegation Laura made to the 156 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 1: judge in Greg Gillespie's case, where she speculated that Woodnick 157 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 1: and Greg Gillespie orchestrated a violent sexual assault against her. 158 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 1: Laura's mom, Jan Black, was interviewed in the investigation report, 159 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 1: and we see all of the details. Something that stood 160 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 1: out to me was Jan's story she told investigators about 161 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 1: what happened to Laura in March twenty twenty two when 162 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 1: she alleged that you and Greg Gillespie were involved in 163 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 1: an alleged rape so I want to read this part 164 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:12,080 Speaker 1: to you. In the investigation report from jan Black's interview, 165 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:15,719 Speaker 1: Miss black Owens told us that Laura ended her relationship 166 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:18,680 Speaker 1: with Gillespie in August twenty twenty one, and then in 167 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 1: February twenty twenty two, Laura connected with a guy on Bumble, 168 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:26,480 Speaker 1: a dating app. He Andrew, lived in Hoboken, New Jersey, 169 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 1: but said he was going to relocate to Scottsdale. During 170 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:32,680 Speaker 1: their video chats, Andrew suggested that she traveled to Hoboken 171 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 1: to visit with him, knowing that her sister Sarah lived 172 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 1: in New York City. I asked if Sarah knew Andrew beforehand. 173 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 1: Miss black Owens indicated not. Laura decided to go to 174 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 1: Hoboken to see her sister. Miss black Owen stated that 175 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 1: Andrew was very particular about the time of Laura's arrival 176 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 1: and that she takes public transportation instead of an uber. 177 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 1: Laura arrived at the door, and Andrew answered while on 178 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 1: the phone and handed her a drink as pre arranged. 179 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:00,679 Speaker 1: Laura consumed the drink, felt that she he was drugged 180 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 1: and then violently assaulted, according to Miss black Owens. Miss 181 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 1: black Owens feels that this was a targeted attack, which 182 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:11,079 Speaker 1: coincided with mister Woodnock's ultimatum to drop the suit against Gillespie. 183 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:15,200 Speaker 1: Miss black Owens recounted Laura's description of the evening and 184 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:18,319 Speaker 1: her opinion that the attack was live streamed. I told 185 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 1: Miss black Owens that I understand that this is part 186 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:23,559 Speaker 1: of the big picture. However, it's outside of the purview 187 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 1: of what we're investigating. Laura contacted the Hoboken Police Department 188 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:30,440 Speaker 1: and spoke with a detective. Laura reported that she was 189 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 1: afraid and did not wish to name Andrew in the 190 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:36,320 Speaker 1: police report. Miss black Owens indicated that the FBI is 191 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:38,839 Speaker 1: involved in the case and provided further detail of this. 192 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:42,200 Speaker 1: Miss black Owens told us that the assault occurred in 193 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 1: March twenty twenty two, and that Andrew text Laura again 194 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 1: in November twenty twenty two, said that he was in 195 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 1: Scottsdale and asked if she wanted to meet. Laura feared 196 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:54,439 Speaker 1: that Andrew wanted to quote finish the job. Miss black 197 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:56,720 Speaker 1: Owens stated that all this comes together. At the time 198 00:10:56,760 --> 00:10:59,680 Speaker 1: of the trial with Gillespie, Laura was frightened and sent 199 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:03,439 Speaker 1: course respondence to the court requesting to appear virtually indicating 200 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:06,080 Speaker 1: that she believed that mister Woodnick and Gillespie were involved 201 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:08,959 Speaker 1: in her attack. Miss black Owens reported that the court 202 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 1: sent this request to mister Woodnick. Also, Miss black Owens 203 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 1: feels that mister Woodnick and Gillespie wanted to damage Laura's 204 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:18,440 Speaker 1: reputation to make her seem as if she were an 205 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:23,079 Speaker 1: unhinged crazy girl if she were to testify. So this 206 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 1: goes back to this allegation from Laura that you and 207 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:31,280 Speaker 1: Greg Gillespie were involved in an alleged rape in Hoboken 208 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:33,880 Speaker 1: in March of twenty twenty two. We heard about that 209 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 1: in episode five. After hearing that, my question for you is, 210 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: is this the first time you've heard all of these 211 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 1: details that were attached to that. 212 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:47,080 Speaker 2: It's bullshit. I don't know other words than this is 213 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 2: just not true. I contacted the police. I contacted the FBI. 214 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 2: My office, obviously concerned with the allegations, tried to find 215 00:11:57,160 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 2: out what the hell Laura was talking about when she 216 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 2: wrote that letter to the judge, and none of it 217 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 2: bore out. None of it. I was never contacted by 218 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 2: the police, I was never contacted by the Federal Bureau 219 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:16,000 Speaker 2: of Investigation, and I had contacted them inviting them to 220 00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 2: come talk to me about these ridiculous and horrific allegations. 221 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 2: None of it was true. That did not happen. And certainly, 222 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 2: if something bad happened to Laura, which I was not there, 223 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 2: I personally don't believe any of that is true, but 224 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:32,679 Speaker 2: certainly I wasn't involved in it. If it was true, 225 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:35,559 Speaker 2: I'm sorry. I'm sorry she had something horrible happened to her. 226 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 2: I don't think it happened, Stephanie. I think it's an 227 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:40,560 Speaker 2: entire lie. 228 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 1: Is there anything else from the investigation report that you 229 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 1: want to talk about? 230 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:48,720 Speaker 2: My general comments on the investigative report is the criminal 231 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:53,080 Speaker 2: process needs to play out. It's important to me, Stephanie, 232 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:55,280 Speaker 2: that if Laura wants to take this to trial, that 233 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:58,120 Speaker 2: she has the most fair trial possible. I want her 234 00:12:58,120 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 2: to have a great trial. I want her to have 235 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 2: a great defense to her trial. I believe that, as 236 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:05,680 Speaker 2: a true believer in the system, our criminal justice system 237 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:08,800 Speaker 2: is excellent. She'll have an opportunity if she wants to 238 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 2: testify in front of a jury of her peers and 239 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:14,560 Speaker 2: answer questions, or she can just invoke and not answer questions. 240 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:16,200 Speaker 2: I don't know what her choice is going to be 241 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 2: up until this point, she has testified, and she said 242 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:23,679 Speaker 2: some pretty egregiously inconsistent statements, I think, which is the 243 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 2: predicate of her being charged with perjury. But I hope 244 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:29,560 Speaker 2: she has a fair trial and that there's a just 245 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:32,840 Speaker 2: resolution and a just consequence. If she went to trial 246 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 2: and she got acquitted because a jury of her peers 247 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 2: felt that the state did not beat the burden, so 248 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 2: be it. I'm a believer in the system. That's okay. 249 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 2: I don't think that's going to happen. I think the 250 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 2: jury is going to look at her statements and the 251 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:50,320 Speaker 2: records and the video that they found, and the physical 252 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:53,679 Speaker 2: evidence that they found, and her prior testimony, and I 253 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 2: think she's going to be convicted of multiple felonies. That's 254 00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 2: my belief. 255 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 1: Obviously, Clayton is listed as a victim in the criminal proceedings. 256 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:05,560 Speaker 1: You have also been someone that has been affected by 257 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 1: Laura's fabricated stories. You're not listed as a victim, But 258 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 1: what does justice look like for you. 259 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 2: I'm not a victim here, but undoubtedly I've been impacted 260 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 2: by Laura's allegations. I'm supposed to have thick skin because 261 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:22,080 Speaker 2: I'm a lawyer or whatever, but it impacts other people. 262 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 2: I mean, obviously it impacted my family. I talked about that, 263 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 2: and I went and I listened to your episode and 264 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 2: I heard myself get emotional, And the truth is, it 265 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 2: was really fucking emotional. It sucked, It really sucked when 266 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 2: it happened. But it's not just me and my family 267 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 2: that got impacted. There are other people. Hearing how that 268 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 2: impacted Danielle was so much different to me than hearing 269 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:43,840 Speaker 2: it from Michael. I know Danielle, I've spoken to her before, 270 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 2: but hearing her have that intimate conversation with you expressing 271 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 2: how it impacted their family Michael's career trajectory just causes 272 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 2: me to think of all the other collateral people that 273 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 2: have been damaged by her, just verbal diarrhea of lies 274 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:02,240 Speaker 2: and ali gations and lack of accountability. 275 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 1: I really thought this conversation was important to have with 276 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 1: you today. You have been kind of a main character 277 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 1: throughout this podcast, and I just wanted to tell you 278 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:14,400 Speaker 1: thank you for your time today and for kind of 279 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 1: walking us through a lot of the complicated legal matters 280 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:20,080 Speaker 1: in this podcast. But thank you. 281 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 2: I appreciate that. I don't think I ever wanted to 282 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 2: be a main character in this story. I didn't know 283 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 2: what we were getting involved in. And I think back 284 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 2: Stephanie too early days with Greg Gillespie in my office, 285 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:40,920 Speaker 2: and the correspondence that Laura was sending in the allegation 286 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 2: she was making long before she suggested that Greg and 287 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 2: I were involved in some sort of orchestrated rape. Apparently 288 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 2: now I'm learning and hoboken. I didn't even know that, 289 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 2: And I remember thinking then that this story was insane. 290 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:56,120 Speaker 2: If I only knew, if I only knew that given time, 291 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:59,520 Speaker 2: we would find these other victims would come forward and 292 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 2: want to part dissipate in this process. If I only 293 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 2: knew that the social media world was going to find 294 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 2: this story as fascinating as they did, if I only 295 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 2: knew that this organization loosely associated JFC was going to 296 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 2: be these amazing detectives helping with data collection. I knew 297 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:21,960 Speaker 2: none of it back then, but at the time I 298 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 2: thought the story was spectacular. I thought it was a 299 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 2: crazy story I'd heard in a while. And now, looking 300 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 2: back three years later and the story is not even over, 301 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 2: it's kind of humbling. I appreciate how you've told this story, 302 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:36,480 Speaker 2: but it's not a story. I mean, the reality is 303 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 2: is that Laura really fucked with a lot of people's lives. 304 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 2: And the truth is that Laura has an absolute history 305 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 2: of fabricating allegations when she is in a corner. She 306 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 2: did it on the stand in Judge Modes' courtroom. It'll 307 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 2: be interesting to see if she does it again in 308 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:52,560 Speaker 2: a criminal trial. 309 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for listening, and stay tuned for new 310 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 1: episodes in bonus content on the Love Trapped Feed.