WEBVTT - Overlanding West Virginia with Jason Specht 0:00:06.200 --> 0:00:08.320 Hello, and welcome to the overland journ podcast. 0:00:08.400 --> 0:00:12.559 I'm your host, Scott Brady, and I'm here with Jason Speck. Now, 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:15.360 Jason has been in this industry for a very long time. 0:00:15.400 --> 0:00:19.680 I've enjoyed watching his videos. They've done trips around the country, 0:00:20.040 --> 0:00:24.599 but they really specialize in the East Coast and West 0:00:24.640 --> 0:00:27.040 Virginia in particular. And I am having a great time 0:00:27.120 --> 0:00:31.160 right now at Camp Cheat. So this is a historic lodge, 0:00:31.440 --> 0:00:34.480 and Jason's going to tell us all about this incredible 0:00:34.600 --> 0:00:38.240 story of people like Henry Ford and Edison going out 0:00:38.280 --> 0:00:42.360 and overlanding in the early nineteen hundred. So, Jason, thanks 0:00:42.360 --> 0:00:44.040 so much for being on the podcast today. 0:00:44.280 --> 0:00:46.080 Absolutely, Scott, thanks for having us. 0:00:46.560 --> 0:00:50.080 And a special thanks to Nitto Tire for supporting this 0:00:50.120 --> 0:00:54.880 week's podcast. The Terrain Grappler G three is the third 0:00:54.960 --> 0:00:59.040 generation of one of Overlanding's most trusted all terrain tires. 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:04.280 A new compound and tread pattern delivers improved wet traction 0:01:04.800 --> 0:01:10.360 and a three peak mountain snowflake certification. 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Thanks Nidto. 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:03.320 Well, let's talk through a little bit of your backstory. 0:02:03.360 --> 0:02:06.040 I mean I've known you, we've met a few times 0:02:06.040 --> 0:02:07.919 in the past, but I don't know your whole story. 0:02:08.000 --> 0:02:10.920 So what first got you interested in the outdoors? 0:02:11.919 --> 0:02:15.080 Oh? Wow, the outdoors? You know, I grew up you know, 0:02:15.160 --> 0:02:18.600 playing in the woods behind the house, sure, building forts, 0:02:18.680 --> 0:02:21.560 just like most kids in rural America if they have 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:25.560 woods and forests in their backyards. But was a boy 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:28.280 scout and eagle scout. I would say that that propelled 0:02:28.320 --> 0:02:32.520 me into with the wilderness and backpacking, and that's kind 0:02:32.520 --> 0:02:35.040 of where everything started. Was you know, what can we 0:02:35.080 --> 0:02:38.639 do human power pursuits, fell in love with whitewater and 0:02:39.160 --> 0:02:41.760 you know, hiking, and slowly it kind of adapted that 0:02:41.919 --> 0:02:45.200 into you know, using my vehicle to keep myself places, 0:02:45.560 --> 0:02:48.919 and that's kind of where it all started as a team, 0:02:49.200 --> 0:02:52.960 you know, and the whole Mountain State Overland project that 0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:55.400 started on the banks of a river in West Virginia 0:02:56.160 --> 0:02:59.320 and us reflecting on you know, other people that were 0:02:59.720 --> 0:03:03.919 you know, showcasing this overland lifestyle and this hobby. So 0:03:04.560 --> 0:03:07.480 that was really the drive with outdoor recreation has been 0:03:07.520 --> 0:03:08.600 a big part of my life. 0:03:09.360 --> 0:03:11.160 The Boy Scout thing is I mean I was in 0:03:11.200 --> 0:03:13.280 the Boy Scout for a small period of time and 0:03:14.040 --> 0:03:16.600 I just remember learning a lot from that. I remember 0:03:16.600 --> 0:03:19.000 going to Catalina Island, and you know, I think as 0:03:19.000 --> 0:03:22.519 a young as a young man, it's really important or 0:03:22.560 --> 0:03:24.680 as a young boy in many cases when you kind 0:03:24.680 --> 0:03:26.960 of get started into it, but it's just such an 0:03:27.000 --> 0:03:31.840 important time of your life to be outdoors, to learn skills, 0:03:31.880 --> 0:03:34.200 to work, to learn to work as a team. 0:03:34.520 --> 0:03:34.680 You know. 0:03:34.680 --> 0:03:36.880 I grew up in Los Angeles. I was in the city, 0:03:36.960 --> 0:03:39.160 so to be able to go with my dad out 0:03:39.440 --> 0:03:42.920 on a Scout trip and learn something or or just 0:03:42.960 --> 0:03:45.040 to be a little uncomfortable, I think is important. What 0:03:45.080 --> 0:03:47.360 would you say or some of the things that the 0:03:47.400 --> 0:03:52.520 Scouts taught you that you've brought throughout your whole life. 0:03:53.960 --> 0:03:57.080 I think it just opened up a world of opportunities 0:03:57.200 --> 0:04:02.920 for me in general preparess, Like I mean, just you know, 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:07.600 the motto is like be prepared. You know, it built confidence, 0:04:08.040 --> 0:04:11.280 It built no how you know, everything from you know, 0:04:11.320 --> 0:04:14.840 starting a fire to properly packing your backpack so you 0:04:14.840 --> 0:04:19.039 can you know, lug the weight over twenty thirty forty miles. Right, 0:04:19.120 --> 0:04:23.159 So those simple things understanding equipment, talk about equipment, I 0:04:23.160 --> 0:04:26.560 mean we talk about that with overlanding. The options are endless, right, 0:04:26.920 --> 0:04:29.080 And I think that, you know, it really opened me 0:04:29.240 --> 0:04:33.960 up to being comfortable. Generally, there was merit badges about everything, 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:37.320 some things you didn't want to learn about the project itself, 0:04:37.400 --> 0:04:41.560 for you know, Eagle was very time consuming. We run 0:04:41.560 --> 0:04:45.240 to the gun under stress, like right before my eighteenth birthday. 0:04:45.360 --> 0:04:49.680 I remember all that very vividly, But more importantly, I 0:04:49.680 --> 0:04:51.120 think just general preparedness. 0:04:51.760 --> 0:04:54.320 Was there a favorite Mary badge that you got, one 0:04:54.320 --> 0:04:55.920 that you look back and like that was cool? 0:04:56.080 --> 0:04:58.440 I know, my least favorite let's do that. 0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:02.599 It was personal finance. I think that's still my weak 0:05:02.640 --> 0:05:03.240 point today. 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:04.240 That's fair. 0:05:06.520 --> 0:05:09.080 I don't know really what would have been my favorite. 0:05:09.160 --> 0:05:12.120 I think the wilderness. As we start talking about Camp 0:05:12.160 --> 0:05:16.360 Cheete here, we've got our friend Rick Stowe's out with 0:05:16.400 --> 0:05:19.560 our guests right now. They're foraging, you know, through the 0:05:19.600 --> 0:05:22.320 wilderness and he's teaching them, you know, how to build 0:05:22.360 --> 0:05:24.400 a bow and drill and you know, how to start 0:05:24.440 --> 0:05:29.200 a fire with flint, you know, and that that experience. 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:31.400 I was actually watching Rick and thinking like it was 0:05:31.440 --> 0:05:33.920 so cool when I was a scout and I was 0:05:33.960 --> 0:05:36.640 doing wilderness survival and they just stuck us out in 0:05:36.640 --> 0:05:38.920 the woods with a box of matches and they said, 0:05:38.960 --> 0:05:40.680 we'll come check on you guys in the morning. Good night. 0:05:40.880 --> 0:05:41.200 Wow. 0:05:41.400 --> 0:05:43.039 So we had to build our own little fort and 0:05:43.080 --> 0:05:46.280 we had like a one of those sleeping sacks or whatever, 0:05:46.320 --> 0:05:49.559 you know, the emergency blankets, right. But I was like, yeah, 0:05:49.720 --> 0:05:51.520 that was fun because that's what I did as a kid. 0:05:51.520 --> 0:05:53.400 When we first started talking, it was like we went 0:05:53.440 --> 0:05:56.120 out and we built forts in the backyard. You know, 0:05:56.200 --> 0:05:56.960 that's just what we did. 0:05:57.040 --> 0:05:59.400 So that was my favorite, and I think that, you know, 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:03.680 for those that are listening. When you consider the equipment 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:07.360 that you've purchased through the years, it's the training and 0:06:07.440 --> 0:06:09.919 the testing of the stuff in the field that is 0:06:09.920 --> 0:06:12.760 one of the most important components of it. I think 0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:14.880 the more that we learn, the less stuff that we 0:06:14.920 --> 0:06:18.599 actually need to bring. But if you've got a winch 0:06:18.640 --> 0:06:20.880 on your vehicle, when's the last time that you used it? 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:24.680 Not when you're under duress and you're stuck, but like, 0:06:24.800 --> 0:06:28.400 let's set up a scenario. Yes, I'm going to set 0:06:28.440 --> 0:06:32.039 up a scenario where we're pretending that the vehicle is 0:06:32.080 --> 0:06:34.279 stuck and I'm going to pull out all my gear 0:06:34.320 --> 0:06:36.480 and next thing, you know, like oh shoot, like I 0:06:36.520 --> 0:06:37.000 remember I. 0:06:36.960 --> 0:06:39.359 Took that shackle out and I let gim borrow it 0:06:39.480 --> 0:06:39.960 or whatever. 0:06:40.680 --> 0:06:43.800 If we use our equipment and we're not using it 0:06:43.800 --> 0:06:47.040 in anger, we're not using it under duress. When we're 0:06:47.120 --> 0:06:50.240 using it in a training environment or in a testing condition, 0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:53.360 that's so important to keep those skills sharp. 0:06:53.960 --> 0:06:55.800 Yeah, it's like you said, like, what did you get 0:06:55.839 --> 0:06:58.320 out of scouting that's helped you be where you're at today. 0:06:58.400 --> 0:07:01.560 It was like feeling comfort about using the equipment, And 0:07:02.200 --> 0:07:04.159 you know, the winch is a perfect example because everybody 0:07:04.160 --> 0:07:06.200 feels like they need to have it that when was 0:07:06.240 --> 0:07:07.960 the last time you spooled it out? It's not packed 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:10.720 with mud? Is you're remote? If you have a remote? 0:07:10.760 --> 0:07:12.920 Is it where is it? Is it charged? Is it 0:07:12.960 --> 0:07:17.520 ready to go? Is your abrasion guard you know, squashed 0:07:17.600 --> 0:07:19.440 up in the school like you can't? Can you pull 0:07:19.480 --> 0:07:21.680 it out? Like all of that stuff because when when 0:07:22.560 --> 0:07:26.120 things go sideways, you need to be prepared, right, Like, 0:07:26.160 --> 0:07:29.040 that's the whole idea. So we're constantly, you know, on 0:07:29.120 --> 0:07:32.240 these trips that we do, we walk our guests through 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:34.800 all of that in the beginning and saying like you 0:07:34.840 --> 0:07:37.760 have all this equipment, let's get your recovery equipment out 0:07:37.800 --> 0:07:39.800 so it's there when we need it so we can 0:07:39.840 --> 0:07:42.280 improvise and we can handle this matter and get you 0:07:42.320 --> 0:07:43.600 out safely and quickly. 0:07:43.800 --> 0:07:46.160 One of the things I love from this morning with 0:07:46.280 --> 0:07:49.320 the teaching Rick is doing is all the things that 0:07:49.320 --> 0:07:52.040 they're using the knives for, Like they're doing notching and 0:07:52.080 --> 0:07:54.200 they had to go out and get a basically a 0:07:54.200 --> 0:07:58.160 whittle stick to try a bunch of different techniques. And 0:07:58.560 --> 0:08:00.960 you know, he talked a lot about safe talked a 0:08:00.960 --> 0:08:02.920 lot about kind of making sure that there's no one 0:08:03.000 --> 0:08:06.440 around you that you might accidentally injure, and then how 0:08:06.520 --> 0:08:07.160 to be really. 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:08.760 Careful about not injuring yourself. 0:08:08.840 --> 0:08:11.400 But you think about at the end of the day today, 0:08:11.800 --> 0:08:14.720 these people that are we've got about twenty people here, don't. 0:08:14.480 --> 0:08:19.240 We, Yeah, sixteen guests, and we have six Yes staff members, 0:08:19.240 --> 0:08:21.320 and then there's actually staff that are cooking dinner for 0:08:21.600 --> 0:08:22.160 Yes year too. 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:25.160 So there's quite a few people that are learning this 0:08:25.320 --> 0:08:28.680 skill today and they've probably never used their knife in 0:08:28.680 --> 0:08:31.320 that way. They've opened a lot of Amazon boxes, I'm sure, 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:34.080 but like, how many times do we really use our 0:08:34.160 --> 0:08:37.920 knife to create something? In this case, I saw them creating, 0:08:38.520 --> 0:08:42.400 you know, kindling for starting a fire. They're learning how 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:45.400 to use the blade properly. And that's one of the 0:08:45.440 --> 0:08:48.360 things when I saw the lineup for this trip, I'm like, 0:08:48.400 --> 0:08:51.720 that is really cool to be able or even tomorrow, 0:08:52.080 --> 0:08:54.600 to be able to go out and do some fly fishing. 0:08:54.720 --> 0:08:58.440 And I'm starting to learn through the years. That's one 0:08:58.480 --> 0:09:01.720 of the big differences between overlanding in the West and 0:09:01.760 --> 0:09:05.000 overlanding in the East. I think that you guys in 0:09:05.040 --> 0:09:08.440 the East do a really great job of incorporating other 0:09:08.559 --> 0:09:12.120 things into the trip history. 0:09:12.040 --> 0:09:13.360 Yes, you know, I. 0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:16.800 Remember touring a you know, this is with bowlers up 0:09:16.840 --> 0:09:19.560 in Vermont, but I remember tour touring a you know, 0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:22.680 a maple tree, you know, a maple factory, you. 0:09:22.640 --> 0:09:24.640 Know where they had all the lines coming out of there. 0:09:26.520 --> 0:09:26.679 Them. 0:09:26.720 --> 0:09:30.680 Yeah, it was super amazing. So in your experience, because you've. 0:09:30.559 --> 0:09:33.040 Done a lot of traveling out west and of course 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:36.800 traveling here east a lot, what do you find are 0:09:36.800 --> 0:09:39.840 the major differences not only in the experience, but in 0:09:39.880 --> 0:09:43.320 the in the people that are overlanding, in your customers, 0:09:44.200 --> 0:09:45.760 you find the differences. 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:47.520 I think, I think we could talk about a little 0:09:47.520 --> 0:09:51.200 bit about that and include also, like the difference in 0:09:51.480 --> 0:09:55.440 the landscape. So we're very fortunate on the East Coast 0:09:55.440 --> 0:09:57.959 to have lots of moisture. Yeah, so we can have 0:09:58.520 --> 0:10:01.800 a campfire every night. There are some exceptions, you know 0:10:01.880 --> 0:10:04.360 at times, and we like to cook over the fire. 0:10:04.440 --> 0:10:06.960 That's definitely a luxury that we have here. Sure, we 0:10:07.000 --> 0:10:09.760 have lots of you know, public roads across creeks and 0:10:09.800 --> 0:10:12.199 streams and things like that, and that's all done responsibly, 0:10:12.880 --> 0:10:16.120 you know, But as far as people go, I don't think, 0:10:16.240 --> 0:10:20.160 you know, it's any different. I think I think you 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:22.520 have a lot of bigger rigs out west because you've 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:25.360 got wide, vast open landscapes. 0:10:25.720 --> 0:10:28.640 I've noticed that not very many full sized trucks here 0:10:29.080 --> 0:10:30.760 just because the trails are quite narrow. 0:10:31.080 --> 0:10:33.760 Yeah, they are. We have lots of forest roads here 0:10:33.800 --> 0:10:36.640 in West Virginia, in particular when you get up into 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:39.280 Vermont and things like that. As you've experienced, the Class 0:10:39.320 --> 0:10:42.760 four roads are really tight. But it's not out of 0:10:42.760 --> 0:10:44.800 the Ordinarrea you have. We've got a tundra out here 0:10:44.880 --> 0:10:48.160 right now. Two tundra is actually both with ALLUC units 0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:50.760 on them, so they we've got clearance for it. You know. 0:10:50.800 --> 0:10:53.760 Sometimes there's trees that are down. It's not uncommon for 0:10:53.880 --> 0:10:56.640 us to. I think Jerry from Timbo Tusk was on 0:10:56.679 --> 0:11:00.080 a trip with us two years ago. We were in 0:11:00.240 --> 0:11:04.120 Utah and he was kind of lasting because we had chainsaws. 0:11:04.200 --> 0:11:06.640 He's like, I go with people all the time and 0:11:06.679 --> 0:11:09.080 they got chainsaws and they never use him. I was like, 0:11:09.160 --> 0:11:10.280 they don't live on these coasts. 0:11:10.440 --> 0:11:11.000 Yeah sure. 0:11:11.600 --> 0:11:14.920 Or even in the Pacific Northwest, the amount of trees 0:11:14.920 --> 0:11:17.680 I've had the winch or cut out of the way 0:11:17.679 --> 0:11:19.160 in the Pacific Northwest too. 0:11:19.280 --> 0:11:21.680 Yeah fast, yeah, I mean even on the last trip 0:11:21.720 --> 0:11:24.400 that we did here in March, we cut down fifteen 0:11:24.440 --> 0:11:27.640 trees cut out of the way fifteen trees. We didn't 0:11:27.640 --> 0:11:30.280 cut down fifteen trees, but sure them, you know, in 0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:33.600 conjunction with winching, you know, winching them out too. So 0:11:34.400 --> 0:11:38.959 that's that's ordinary for springtime. As we're clearing the path, 0:11:39.080 --> 0:11:43.679 you know, for other motor vehicle enthusiasts. Side by sides 0:11:43.679 --> 0:11:46.200 are really big here in West Virginia as well, so 0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:48.400 we're kind of like kind of forging the way for 0:11:48.440 --> 0:11:50.920 everybody when we go on some of these tracks so 0:11:50.960 --> 0:11:52.440 that they can go and they're like, Oh, I don't 0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:54.200 have to worry about cutting these trees down. Somebody did 0:11:54.200 --> 0:11:54.560 it for me. 0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:57.640 One of the things I really enjoyed about the conversations 0:11:57.679 --> 0:11:59.880 so far is, you know, you've got a lot of 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:02.760 very interesting professionals that are here. You know, people that 0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:06.320 have in some cases very high stakes jobs, or they're 0:12:06.400 --> 0:12:08.880 working in the government, or you know, they're running their 0:12:08.920 --> 0:12:14.000 own business, or they're managing finances for entire families. So 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:17.000 these people are under a lot of pressure, you can tell. 0:12:17.320 --> 0:12:21.600 And they're all so relieved to be out of nature 0:12:21.640 --> 0:12:25.880 right now because they're otherwise they're on a commute in Gridlock. 0:12:26.440 --> 0:12:29.880 Yeah, it's it was really interesting this morning Ezrick was 0:12:29.960 --> 0:12:34.760 leading the first bushcraft session and watching all of these 0:12:35.440 --> 0:12:41.000 grown adults on vacation but in a class setting outside 0:12:41.200 --> 0:12:44.079 beside a tarp, carving with knives and doing it the 0:12:44.200 --> 0:12:47.720 right way and just watching and observing, you know, these 0:12:47.760 --> 0:12:50.000 people being instructed and just loving every minute at that. 0:12:50.160 --> 0:12:50.640 Yeah. 0:12:50.679 --> 0:12:52.880 And like you said, you know, we get a lot 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:56.360 of DC folk. We get a lot of traffic from 0:12:56.480 --> 0:13:00.880 North Carolina, even New England now too, and in the 0:13:00.920 --> 0:13:04.880 southeast too, so down Atlanta. We've got some folks from 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:08.600 Room Georgia here too, But just a wide variety of 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:15.440 like different lifestyles, you know, family scenarios, careers, and that's 0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:17.960 what's most interesting. You've got a doctor sitting beside, a 0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:22.120 software engineer sitting beside, an account manager sitting beside you 0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:27.080 know whoever. And we're in this fantastic three story lodge 0:13:27.120 --> 0:13:30.520 from the you know, late eighteen hundreds right now. That's amazing. 0:13:30.800 --> 0:13:33.280 Yeah, and the history is I mean, just when Jim 0:13:33.440 --> 0:13:36.080 from OK for World Drive, I'm traveling. For those who 0:13:36.120 --> 0:13:38.160 are listening, I'm traveling with Jim from OK four WL 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:41.480 drive down here from New Jersey, and we drove the 0:13:41.520 --> 0:13:43.760 Grenadier and stopped at a bunch of these little towns 0:13:43.800 --> 0:13:45.880 along the way, and you know, you go to get 0:13:45.960 --> 0:13:49.680 coffee and you walk by an inn from seventeen thirty six. 0:13:50.280 --> 0:13:52.280 That is cool. Yeah, you know, I live in a 0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:53.320 very old home. 0:13:53.120 --> 0:13:55.600 By standards of the West, and it was built in 0:13:55.840 --> 0:13:59.840 nineteen fourteen, so you know, you know, hundreds of years newer. 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:03.920 And it's a very old home in Arizona. But out 0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:05.880 here it's a pup. 0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:08.840 Yeah, you know, and there's there's We've had this conversation 0:14:08.840 --> 0:14:11.480 a couple of times, you know, specific to this area 0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:14.240 West Virginia. I feel like a lot of the rich 0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:19.120 history is more recent than other states along the East coast, 0:14:19.240 --> 0:14:21.760 like you would talk about you talk about lumber and 0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:25.360 coal mining still happening today. You know a lot of that, 0:14:25.760 --> 0:14:28.480 you know, history on the New River in Thurman, West Virginia, 0:14:28.560 --> 0:14:31.240 where all the big timbering was done up here in 0:14:31.280 --> 0:14:34.480 Canaane Valley and stuff like that. That's all very recent, 0:14:35.160 --> 0:14:36.800 you know, within the last hundred years. 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:37.080 Oh. 0:14:37.120 --> 0:14:39.600 Interesting, this wasn't like two hundred and three hundred years ago. 0:14:39.680 --> 0:14:44.360 This was it feels like not too far away. 0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:47.120 Pretty odal an interesting thing for me, and I'm really 0:14:47.120 --> 0:14:51.120 grateful to be here in West Virginia. My grandfather, my 0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:54.680 mom's dad, he grew up incredibly poor, and he grew 0:14:54.760 --> 0:14:58.480 up in West Virginia, like they called it, the West 0:14:58.560 --> 0:15:02.000 Virginia settlers, like these were. They just didn't have a 0:15:02.000 --> 0:15:06.000 lot of resources. And his dad died very young, and 0:15:06.240 --> 0:15:09.520 you know, his mom, his mom couldn't afford to feed him, 0:15:09.560 --> 0:15:12.440 so she took him into the recruiter's offices as World 0:15:12.480 --> 0:15:16.280 War two was riffing. She lied about his age. Wow, 0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:18.560 and off he went because she couldn't afford to feed 0:15:18.640 --> 0:15:21.120 him anymore. So, you know, I have never had the 0:15:21.200 --> 0:15:25.560 opportunity to really spend time in West Virginia and think 0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:28.360 about and I was trying to do some research before 0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:31.040 I came, like where was my grandpa living? And there 0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:33.760 wasn't a lot of information. You have a birth certificate, 0:15:33.840 --> 0:15:36.040 which is why she was able to you know, fib 0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:39.760 about his age. But pretty incredible the history here, and 0:15:39.800 --> 0:15:42.640 even that touches my own life and my own family history. 0:15:42.800 --> 0:15:43.240 Yeah wow. 0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:44.760 So yeah, they never. 0:15:44.640 --> 0:15:47.640 Really had a chance to to drive around and check 0:15:47.680 --> 0:15:47.920 it out. 0:15:48.000 --> 0:15:48.880 So this is really cool. 0:15:49.000 --> 0:15:50.920 This is cool. We're glad you're here, man. This is 0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:54.320 West Virginia is a very special place to me. And 0:15:54.920 --> 0:15:58.080 you know, we're really focused on community and you know, 0:15:58.240 --> 0:16:01.400 introducing people to all the opportunity that are here. Yeah, 0:16:01.440 --> 0:16:04.840 there's en less recreational opportunities here in the state. 0:16:05.080 --> 0:16:06.600 Well, and you've done a great job of that. You've 0:16:06.600 --> 0:16:09.760 done a great job of really fostering community. And I've 0:16:09.760 --> 0:16:11.440 seen you do that through a bunch of ways. You 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:16.400 have fantastic videos that you document your adventures in the 0:16:16.400 --> 0:16:18.800 East and in the West, I mean around the country. 0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:21.840 But then you hold these events on a regular basis 0:16:21.920 --> 0:16:25.600 that brings in people and starts to expose them to overlanding. 0:16:25.640 --> 0:16:28.240 So you've really found a way and that you support 0:16:28.320 --> 0:16:31.640 sponsors and you help develop product and test product and 0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:34.240 document it. So you found a way to create a 0:16:34.280 --> 0:16:36.680 really great business. But one of the things that I 0:16:36.760 --> 0:16:39.640 was really curious about is if you could think about 0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:42.080 somebody from the West or somebody who's moving out east, 0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:45.240 because surprisingly there's a lot more people now moving east 0:16:45.720 --> 0:16:49.960 from the West because there's more affordable housing. You know, 0:16:49.960 --> 0:16:52.280 there's great history. You know, you can do a lot 0:16:52.320 --> 0:16:54.200 of lakes and if you like the water. You know, 0:16:54.200 --> 0:16:56.560 there's a lot of reasons to move back east. But 0:16:56.680 --> 0:16:59.840 if you were to give like a top three to 0:17:00.440 --> 0:17:02.520 and let's take as much time as we need, because 0:17:02.520 --> 0:17:05.919 I think people listening will find it fascinating. Three to 0:17:06.040 --> 0:17:10.959 five great trips, I mean just epic overland trips. They 0:17:10.960 --> 0:17:12.919 don't have to include a bunch of fowel driving, but 0:17:12.960 --> 0:17:13.840 if they do, that's great. 0:17:13.840 --> 0:17:15.640 But like, what are your top three to. 0:17:15.680 --> 0:17:19.280 Five routes along the west or along the East coast 0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:21.920 that you think are the ones for people to check out? 0:17:22.240 --> 0:17:25.919 Well, so we have we have a catalog of you know, 0:17:26.040 --> 0:17:29.880 different routes that we host specific to our guided trips. 0:17:30.400 --> 0:17:33.480 There's that as a resource. We're always willing to help people. Yeah, 0:17:33.680 --> 0:17:35.320 you know, if they've got questions. 0:17:34.920 --> 0:17:37.280 About things and is that on your website. 0:17:36.920 --> 0:17:40.359 Or we's people will just email us and ask in 0:17:40.440 --> 0:17:44.160 contact us, ask us questions. You're starting to see things 0:17:44.200 --> 0:17:48.119 with on X people publishing some routes and locations. You know, 0:17:48.160 --> 0:17:51.399 a popular location in West Virginia which maybe people know 0:17:51.440 --> 0:17:54.320 about is Canane Loop in the Canadine Valley area. Hopefully 0:17:54.320 --> 0:17:56.160 we'll be taking you through there on your visit. 0:17:56.520 --> 0:17:57.679 Let's talk about that a little bit. 0:17:57.760 --> 0:17:59.520 Let's tell me about the loop and what do you 0:17:59.640 --> 0:18:03.040 see along the way and is there disperse camping available 0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:03.679 those kinds of thing. 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:07.639 Yeah, so so there the Loop road is a public 0:18:07.720 --> 0:18:13.359 road that starts in Blackwaterfalls State Park and then navigates 0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:16.720 into National Forest and then ends out, you know, on 0:18:16.840 --> 0:18:19.840 paved So it's a loop starting from pavement and then 0:18:19.960 --> 0:18:23.480 ending at pavement, right. So it's a combination of kind 0:18:23.480 --> 0:18:28.359 of gravel, rough sandstone, blackwater, creeks and springs that you 0:18:28.400 --> 0:18:30.440 drive through, which is really cool. It's a nice experience. 0:18:31.200 --> 0:18:36.200 Not anything that's uberly uber technical, okay, but it's beautifulul 0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:40.280 It feels like you're kind of in a rainforest at times. 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:43.359 We have a lot of road drum and Mountain Laurel 0:18:43.400 --> 0:18:47.520 in the state, so you're constantly like you know, pushing 0:18:47.600 --> 0:18:52.000 through you know, these this vegetation. Right now, there's actually 0:18:52.080 --> 0:18:54.320 construction on the upper end of Canane Loop, but there's 0:18:54.359 --> 0:18:57.840 another road that leads into that. So those two routes, 0:18:58.119 --> 0:19:00.320 you know, these two roads I'm talking about, I think 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:03.639 are available on on X. Yeah. I've been trying to 0:19:03.680 --> 0:19:07.480 work with the Forest Service and tread lightly to encourage 0:19:08.119 --> 0:19:10.800 you know on X to actually have them, you know, 0:19:10.920 --> 0:19:13.959 direct traffic one way so that we can maintain our 0:19:14.000 --> 0:19:17.480 impact on the land because sometimes you'll run into other vehicles. 0:19:17.520 --> 0:19:20.159 But you know, you're out in Utah on BLM on 0:19:20.200 --> 0:19:23.400 some of these tracks and they're really nero. You still 0:19:23.400 --> 0:19:24.959 got to find a way. Somebody's got to back up, 0:19:24.960 --> 0:19:28.160 somebody's got to do that. But this area is very 0:19:28.640 --> 0:19:31.760 sensitive to if you get off trail, you get bogged down, 0:19:32.320 --> 0:19:34.439 and then those tracks to the yeah, you could do 0:19:34.480 --> 0:19:37.880 a lot of damage. So we try to constantly advocate that. 0:19:37.960 --> 0:19:41.840 Whenever we run trips through that area, we break down 0:19:42.359 --> 0:19:44.919 our group into micro groups, so we don't drive with 0:19:44.960 --> 0:19:48.159 more than five vehicles on any of our trips. So 0:19:48.200 --> 0:19:51.879 we break that group down into two or three vehicle groups, 0:19:52.440 --> 0:19:54.720 and then we stagger them by like thirty minutes, so 0:19:55.080 --> 0:19:57.080 it gives them an opportunity to pass through in case 0:19:57.080 --> 0:20:00.359 there's oncoming traffic, sure, and then we segment next groups through. 0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:03.400 So we we love Gnning Valley, but you know, we're 0:20:03.400 --> 0:20:06.280 really focused on kind of protecting that. So that's that's 0:20:06.320 --> 0:20:10.159 a beautiful area. You know, there's endless opportunities in the 0:20:10.200 --> 0:20:14.000 Spruce and Seneca Rox National Recreation Area. I think there's 0:20:14.040 --> 0:20:15.880 like three hundred miles of total gravel. 0:20:16.080 --> 0:20:18.520 I couldn't believe how beautiful those rocks were. I mean, 0:20:18.520 --> 0:20:22.320 and there was that gym and I stopped there. Yeah, yeah, 0:20:22.400 --> 0:20:23.879 Jim and I stopped there, and there was this like 0:20:23.920 --> 0:20:26.760 one hundred year old general store, still run by the 0:20:26.800 --> 0:20:29.600 same family. I think they were getting ready to prep 0:20:29.840 --> 0:20:32.520 generation number six to run the store, you know. And 0:20:32.520 --> 0:20:35.439 they had a cash register in there made out of 0:20:35.480 --> 0:20:39.480 bronze and brass and metal from like the early nineteen hundreds. 0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:40.119 It was awesome. 0:20:40.160 --> 0:20:41.440 Yeah, the creaky wood floor. 0:20:41.640 --> 0:20:44.879 Yeah, that was so cool, and it was it looks 0:20:44.920 --> 0:20:47.760 like it's a really popular place for you know, for 0:20:47.920 --> 0:20:51.080 rock climbers and people to get out and explore. 0:20:51.160 --> 0:20:51.560 That's great. 0:20:51.880 --> 0:20:55.760 Yeah. The Cineca ROX Area is beautiful. And so that 0:20:55.880 --> 0:21:01.600 area is a in conjunction with the Spruce Recreation Area, 0:21:01.640 --> 0:21:03.720 so they call it the Spruce Cob Center Rocks National 0:21:03.760 --> 0:21:06.280 Recreation Area. And then Spruce KNBB is the summit of 0:21:06.280 --> 0:21:08.680 West Virginia, so it's the highest point in the state. 0:21:08.880 --> 0:21:12.080 And then once you get on that plateau, there's some 0:21:12.119 --> 0:21:14.520 sections that you would drive through pasture lands that you'd 0:21:14.520 --> 0:21:15.720 feel like you were in Ireland. 0:21:15.920 --> 0:21:16.360 Wow. 0:21:16.400 --> 0:21:19.199 You know, not too far from from there. And Canaane 0:21:19.240 --> 0:21:22.320 Valley is Dolly Sod's Wilderness. So we're not talking too 0:21:22.400 --> 0:21:24.800 much about overlanding routes right now, but the Dolly Sods 0:21:24.800 --> 0:21:28.520 Wilderness is kind of like an Alaskan tundra landscape as well. 0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:29.200 Wow. 0:21:29.560 --> 0:21:32.159 And there's a lot of cool, you know history about 0:21:32.200 --> 0:21:34.960 how that land became what it was. There's the Minute 0:21:35.000 --> 0:21:40.000 Lanta BDR which runs through through West Virginia, basically down 0:21:40.440 --> 0:21:42.040 along the border of Virginia too. 0:21:43.160 --> 0:21:44.400 How long is that rut? 0:21:44.640 --> 0:21:46.800 I don't know how long that is. I think that's 0:21:47.040 --> 0:21:49.560 a couple hundred miles or so. I haven't driven that, 0:21:49.680 --> 0:21:51.879 but we've been on a lot of those roads. The 0:21:51.920 --> 0:21:55.200 trans America Trail starts not too far away from here, 0:21:55.240 --> 0:21:56.640 and we've spent a lot of time on the trans 0:21:56.720 --> 0:21:59.760 America Trail over the years. So there's good. 0:22:00.000 --> 0:22:01.800 That's one of the coolest things I've done in my life. 0:22:01.840 --> 0:22:04.960 I mean, if someone has a chance to because it 0:22:05.000 --> 0:22:07.160 takes about five or six weeks to do it, even 0:22:07.200 --> 0:22:11.000 on a motorcycle, you're gonna be on five thousand miles 0:22:11.000 --> 0:22:11.399 of dirt. 0:22:11.600 --> 0:22:13.080 Yeah, it's unbelievable. 0:22:13.400 --> 0:22:16.560 Yeah, it is, you know, and but there are so 0:22:17.400 --> 0:22:21.600 specific to this date West Virginia. There are so many 0:22:22.560 --> 0:22:27.399 roads and places that travel that are earth and service gravel, dirt, 0:22:27.880 --> 0:22:29.880 and then you know, by chance, a lot of time 0:22:29.880 --> 0:22:33.320 when we map routes, we find abandoned roads that are 0:22:33.960 --> 0:22:36.120 very primitive. You know, that's when it gets really fun. 0:22:36.160 --> 0:22:39.480 I think the most exciting thing for us about overlanding, 0:22:40.000 --> 0:22:42.879 as we've been doing it since like twenty twelve, twenty 0:22:42.920 --> 0:22:46.960 thirteen and kind of creating this business is the discovery process, 0:22:47.160 --> 0:22:50.080 you know. I think people really are excited about, like 0:22:50.560 --> 0:22:53.240 I want to overland now, I want to build my 0:22:53.280 --> 0:22:55.520 truck now, and I want to route so I know 0:22:55.560 --> 0:22:59.720 where to go. For me, overlanding is discovering. It's like 0:23:00.240 --> 0:23:03.600 building a route using Google pin and two points and 0:23:03.640 --> 0:23:08.200 finding the windiest backroads you possibly can and then seeing 0:23:08.200 --> 0:23:11.080 what happens. And then when you get out there and 0:23:11.119 --> 0:23:13.080 you actually have to put it in four wheel drive, 0:23:13.560 --> 0:23:15.200 or you have to cut a tree out of the way, 0:23:15.920 --> 0:23:18.960 or you're scurrying to find a campsite in the middle 0:23:19.000 --> 0:23:21.920 of the night. Sure, like, that's when it gets really exciting, 0:23:22.080 --> 0:23:24.880 you know, That's when it's really special. So I try 0:23:24.920 --> 0:23:27.439 to talk people through that. But you know, there's so 0:23:27.520 --> 0:23:30.679 many resources out on the internet now, you know, to 0:23:30.720 --> 0:23:33.800 help you build those routes and those locations or that 0:23:33.880 --> 0:23:36.479 you want to go. But I try to preach that 0:23:36.640 --> 0:23:38.600 because that's really what's fun. 0:23:38.800 --> 0:23:41.840 And there's a lot of people that live out east 0:23:41.880 --> 0:23:44.240 and they're looking for a place to go. I mean, 0:23:44.720 --> 0:23:48.360 some of our most popular content was that we published 0:23:48.400 --> 0:23:50.879 a series of routes in Texas and they're just like 0:23:50.960 --> 0:23:53.080 no one had really put the content out there, you know, 0:23:53.119 --> 0:23:55.240 And next thing you know, you got like an article. 0:23:54.880 --> 0:23:56.040 With a million views. 0:23:56.280 --> 0:24:01.000 It's like, it's just unbelievable how hungry many parts of 0:24:01.040 --> 0:24:04.360 the country are for these kinds of routes. So it's 0:24:04.400 --> 0:24:07.480 just not really available. You think about Arizona, there's lots 0:24:07.480 --> 0:24:10.439 of great documentation in books and there's three different books 0:24:10.440 --> 0:24:13.800 that cover the same route, whereas here there's just not 0:24:13.880 --> 0:24:15.160 as much information, so. 0:24:15.480 --> 0:24:19.439 There's not you know. I remember going to Charleston for 0:24:19.440 --> 0:24:22.560 the first time to kind of advocate for Adventure Travel, 0:24:22.800 --> 0:24:25.040 and I was standing up in front of the crowd 0:24:25.080 --> 0:24:27.439 introducing you know who we were. At Mountain State. It 0:24:27.480 --> 0:24:30.240 was like two hundred people or something, and I was 0:24:30.320 --> 0:24:32.840 just like, you know, we love the state so much. 0:24:32.880 --> 0:24:36.720 We're so happy to get people to come here and explore, 0:24:36.960 --> 0:24:38.840 you know, the mountain state. And it was just kind 0:24:38.840 --> 0:24:41.760 of quiet. And then people I didn't know how to 0:24:41.800 --> 0:24:44.560 take it. Yeah, because these are all locals that like 0:24:44.640 --> 0:24:48.280 live here, and they're like, yeah, we don't want people 0:24:48.560 --> 0:24:51.560 to come, not that they not are inhospitable, but they 0:24:51.680 --> 0:24:55.120 just like, this is our secret. I mean in West 0:24:55.160 --> 0:24:59.080 Virginia driving the roads, I like to get this from 0:24:59.119 --> 0:25:02.080 farming out in the brown Like everybody waved it. Everybody 0:25:02.119 --> 0:25:04.360 when you're driving down the road, lift two fingers off 0:25:04.359 --> 0:25:08.080 the steering wheel. And that was always like it shows 0:25:08.119 --> 0:25:10.800 to me that people are welcoming you in their space. 0:25:11.560 --> 0:25:13.240 And that's what's funny though, you know. I had that 0:25:13.359 --> 0:25:16.879 experience at the Capitol, but everywhere I go in West Virginia, 0:25:16.960 --> 0:25:19.920 I always I gauge my environment wherever I go by 0:25:20.000 --> 0:25:22.399 waving it. People all the time see like what's this 0:25:22.480 --> 0:25:24.800 place like? Right? So you start waving and people just 0:25:24.840 --> 0:25:26.840 wave back, and people pull up to the gas station 0:25:26.960 --> 0:25:29.560 they want to know what your truck's all about, Like 0:25:29.600 --> 0:25:31.159 where are you going? Where have you been what are 0:25:31.200 --> 0:25:35.399 you guys doing so you know it's it's fantastic. 0:25:35.600 --> 0:25:37.760 Yeah, oh, I would agree. I mean, so far it's 0:25:37.800 --> 0:25:38.600 just been beautiful. 0:25:38.600 --> 0:25:40.919 I mean the fact that we're in a We're going 0:25:41.000 --> 0:25:43.960 to shift the conversation a little bit towards where we're 0:25:43.960 --> 0:25:46.840 at now and this story of the vagabonds and everything 0:25:46.880 --> 0:25:49.360 else like that, but you know, we're in a we're 0:25:49.359 --> 0:25:51.240 in a lodge cap I mean you can see these 0:25:51.320 --> 0:25:55.960 rough hewn beams and it was originally a single story 0:25:56.000 --> 0:25:58.919 and they added on a little bit more to it later, 0:25:58.960 --> 0:26:00.760 but you can tell even if you look at the 0:26:00.800 --> 0:26:06.200 outside the fireplace, the chimney stack, I mean the lower 0:26:06.960 --> 0:26:11.040 bricks or the lower stones, you know, they were producing 0:26:11.119 --> 0:26:13.760 a totally different way than the upper ones. You could 0:26:13.800 --> 0:26:17.040 see that they were driving metal steaks and stuff like 0:26:17.080 --> 0:26:19.639 that into them to chip them off, and totally they 0:26:19.640 --> 0:26:21.600 look totally different than the higher wild. 0:26:21.840 --> 0:26:22.600 It's super cool. 0:26:22.720 --> 0:26:25.840 Yeah, I think what's really cool here too, are some 0:26:25.880 --> 0:26:28.800 of the size of the logs in this hand heman 0:26:29.160 --> 0:26:32.560 log lodge. It's definitely not a cabin. Yeah, you know, 0:26:32.640 --> 0:26:35.720 it's like really big and you can't see it on 0:26:35.800 --> 0:26:39.080 the video. If you guys are watching but in the 0:26:39.080 --> 0:26:43.040 dining room area there's a log that's easily two and 0:26:43.119 --> 0:26:46.640 a half inches or two and a half feet thick. Right, 0:26:46.760 --> 0:26:51.280 So it's fantastic and so well maintained. I was blown 0:26:51.320 --> 0:26:52.800 away when I walked in here the first time. 0:26:52.880 --> 0:26:54.320 Yeah, what an incredible venue. 0:26:54.320 --> 0:26:56.399 And it's just in the fact that there's room for 0:26:56.520 --> 0:26:59.560 camping and it's pretty easy to get to, beautiful little 0:26:59.640 --> 0:27:02.480 drive to get back in here, and you can we 0:27:02.520 --> 0:27:05.520 could be fly fishing in the morning and having a 0:27:05.560 --> 0:27:08.119 fire in the evening. But let's talk a little bit 0:27:08.200 --> 0:27:12.200 about how this what is this trip about? Talk, let's 0:27:12.280 --> 0:27:15.480 dig into the history. Let's talk about camp cheat and 0:27:15.840 --> 0:27:18.840 why it's here, and who are some really interesting gentlemen 0:27:18.840 --> 0:27:21.760 that came and explored here one hundred years ago? 0:27:21.840 --> 0:27:26.080 Just wow. Yeah, So we we passed this place pretty 0:27:26.080 --> 0:27:29.320 regularly on our trips, and I've known about it before 0:27:29.400 --> 0:27:33.880 we really started to do overlanding, and I always thought 0:27:33.880 --> 0:27:36.800 it'd be cool to have some sort of experience here 0:27:36.880 --> 0:27:39.639 and bring, you know, a limited group of folks. This 0:27:39.720 --> 0:27:42.719 is not you know, it only houses twenty three people 0:27:42.800 --> 0:27:46.480 like that's Yeah, we had heard about this place and 0:27:47.440 --> 0:27:49.640 when we started kind of thinking about what we could 0:27:49.720 --> 0:27:52.240 do to create an experience. We have this vision of 0:27:52.680 --> 0:27:57.200 like multi sport activity in conjunction with overlanding, but having 0:27:57.200 --> 0:28:00.000 a nice meal to come home to in this epic 0:28:00.840 --> 0:28:03.879 remote wilderness landscape. But when we started doing in the 0:28:03.960 --> 0:28:06.960 real research, I knew that there was some very important 0:28:07.000 --> 0:28:10.560 people in our history and American history that actually came 0:28:10.640 --> 0:28:13.040 and stayed here. I just didn't know the whole story, right, 0:28:13.160 --> 0:28:19.119 So it was Thomas Edison, Harvey Firestone, Henry Ford, and 0:28:19.320 --> 0:28:24.239 naturalist John Burrows. Right, So those guys, the story is 0:28:24.359 --> 0:28:31.560 just amazing. For those such important people in innovation and 0:28:31.600 --> 0:28:36.800 in the American Industrial Revolution to go camping together in 0:28:36.880 --> 0:28:40.360 model ts and drive from Dearborn, Michigan for two two 0:28:40.400 --> 0:28:43.240 and a half three weeks and come down and explore 0:28:43.280 --> 0:28:46.000 and spend a large portion of their time in West 0:28:46.040 --> 0:28:51.040 Virginia is pretty cool. And they stayed here so by accident, right, 0:28:51.120 --> 0:28:55.560 So they were traveling down from Dearborn, they had a 0:28:55.600 --> 0:28:59.160 vehicle breakdown in Elkins and it was raining and they 0:28:59.200 --> 0:29:01.479 were just tired of getting rained on. They were dusty 0:29:01.480 --> 0:29:04.800 and dirty, so they sent some people out with the 0:29:04.840 --> 0:29:07.120 mayor of Elkins, I believe, and he said, let me 0:29:07.160 --> 0:29:09.560 take you to this lodge and you guys can check 0:29:09.600 --> 0:29:11.920 it out, maybe you can stay here. And they came 0:29:11.960 --> 0:29:13.360 here and saw it and they were like, this is 0:29:13.360 --> 0:29:16.680 gonna be great, it's gonna be perfect, and they stayed. 0:29:17.240 --> 0:29:19.840 They ran a very tight schedule, so I don't think 0:29:19.880 --> 0:29:23.000 they were here much longer than just the day and 0:29:23.000 --> 0:29:26.320 then left the next morning. But they showered and they 0:29:26.880 --> 0:29:31.120 they shaved. Even though Thomas Edison didn't want anybody to 0:29:31.160 --> 0:29:34.000 be cleaned up and he just wanted everybody to grow 0:29:34.040 --> 0:29:36.880 a long hair and live outside. He was very against 0:29:36.960 --> 0:29:40.959 you know, people, you know, accepting or embracing the modern 0:29:41.000 --> 0:29:44.440 luxuries of their time, even though they had batteries and 0:29:44.560 --> 0:29:47.880 lights of their campsite, which is crazy too. But to 0:29:47.960 --> 0:29:51.000 be able to come and stay in the same lodge 0:29:51.440 --> 0:29:54.240 that these guys sat in, and honestly, some of the 0:29:54.280 --> 0:29:58.360 furniture in here is the same furniture that they sat 0:29:58.400 --> 0:30:02.400 in him and had a in the same room is 0:30:03.040 --> 0:30:06.280 super special. And the connection it has with Overlandon. 0:30:06.600 --> 0:30:09.160 It really does. And they were they were doing that. 0:30:09.200 --> 0:30:12.120 They were doing the purest form of it, and very 0:30:12.240 --> 0:30:14.160 very early because that would have that was you know, 0:30:15.560 --> 0:30:16.720 nineteen yeah. 0:30:17.080 --> 0:30:19.600 Early nineteen hundred. So this this particular trip that came 0:30:19.640 --> 0:30:21.320 down here was nineteen eighteen eighteen. 0:30:21.360 --> 0:30:24.120 I couldn't remember if it was eighteen nineteen eighteen or 0:30:24.160 --> 0:30:25.080 nineteen nineteen. 0:30:24.840 --> 0:30:29.479 But yeah, their first kind of formal informal trip camping 0:30:29.480 --> 0:30:31.479 together was I think in nineteen fourteen they went down 0:30:31.560 --> 0:30:33.640 to the state in the Everglades of all places. Wow, 0:30:33.920 --> 0:30:35.800 I had to go down to stay in the swamps. 0:30:36.120 --> 0:30:38.600 Sure in camp now you'd think, wow, that would be 0:30:38.720 --> 0:30:41.920 really buggy, lots of snakes. But they had a great time. 0:30:41.920 --> 0:30:43.760 They took their wives, and their wives insisted that they 0:30:43.800 --> 0:30:46.239 went on every trip after that too, And I think 0:30:46.280 --> 0:30:49.240 they got away with actually going out with just the guy. 0:30:49.360 --> 0:30:51.040 Of all the pictures, there's one on the wall right here, 0:30:51.040 --> 0:30:55.640 it's just the guys staying there. Yeah, so that linked 0:30:55.640 --> 0:31:00.080 with overlanding, and you know, they in an essence piety 0:31:00.320 --> 0:31:02.600 motor camping, right, which is. 0:31:02.840 --> 0:31:03.960 So of the photos are great. 0:31:04.080 --> 0:31:06.200 You know, they got a tarp set up over the 0:31:06.200 --> 0:31:09.800 back of the trucks and they got like an improvised campground, 0:31:09.840 --> 0:31:13.479 and like you said, Edison brought along battery, a battery, 0:31:13.480 --> 0:31:15.840 and he brought along lights. You know, could you imagine 0:31:16.000 --> 0:31:18.360 someone here in West Virginia that didn't have power. 0:31:18.760 --> 0:31:21.760 They probably didn't. I don't think this place had power. Yeah, 0:31:22.000 --> 0:31:25.400 could you imagine, Yeah, it would have been like, yeah, it. 0:31:25.360 --> 0:31:28.600 Would have been like something something out of another planet. 0:31:28.680 --> 0:31:30.400 Well if you saw somebody, because that's what they did. 0:31:30.440 --> 0:31:32.200 They just found places along the side of the road 0:31:32.240 --> 0:31:34.920 to camp, or they'd ask permission from a farmer. Sometimes 0:31:34.920 --> 0:31:37.080 they couldn't because they didn't know who the farmer was sure, 0:31:37.400 --> 0:31:39.400 so they just set up. And if you were a 0:31:39.440 --> 0:31:41.840 farmer sitting in your house and you saw lights off 0:31:41.880 --> 0:31:44.440 in the distance, nobody has lights, and you'd be like, 0:31:44.480 --> 0:31:45.479 what is going on right now? 0:31:45.480 --> 0:31:48.080 Could you imagine no, or even just I mean how 0:31:48.200 --> 0:31:51.240 rare automobiles would have been at that time. Still, Yeah, 0:31:51.440 --> 0:31:54.080 they were still quite rare at that period of time. 0:31:54.160 --> 0:31:56.600 I mean, I mean even my little house in Prescott, 0:31:56.640 --> 0:31:58.840 you know, was built in nineteen fourteen, and it was 0:31:58.880 --> 0:32:00.800 built with a stable on it because they're you know, 0:32:00.800 --> 0:32:04.280 they didn't own a car, so you know, it was 0:32:04.320 --> 0:32:06.440 well before I mean, it never ended up with a garage, 0:32:06.440 --> 0:32:07.680 but didn't have a stable. 0:32:07.400 --> 0:32:08.160 At one point in time. 0:32:08.240 --> 0:32:12.640 Yeah. Yeah, it's wild, you know, you know, to think 0:32:12.680 --> 0:32:16.640 that they took Model t's, They put canopies on the 0:32:16.640 --> 0:32:19.520 back of them. They equipped one as being a refrigerator truck. 0:32:20.320 --> 0:32:23.400 They had they had a wardrobe truck, both pull out 0:32:23.480 --> 0:32:27.960 drawers in cabinets. I think there was a food truck 0:32:28.000 --> 0:32:30.440 that actually had a tap on the outside of it 0:32:30.520 --> 0:32:32.680 so you could get water. And you look at all 0:32:32.720 --> 0:32:34.960 these rigs that we have parked out here, sure they'll 0:32:35.040 --> 0:32:38.240 have exactly the same thing. And this was it we're talking, 0:32:38.360 --> 0:32:40.880 you know, early nineteen hundred and nineteen teens, right, So 0:32:41.520 --> 0:32:44.240 they were that passionate about it, and they had the 0:32:44.280 --> 0:32:47.680 flexibility and probably the income and you know, be able 0:32:47.760 --> 0:32:50.680 to do things like that where maybe some some people couldn't, 0:32:50.680 --> 0:32:53.200 but they it didn't matter. They created it, right. 0:32:53.440 --> 0:32:54.840 They wanted that experience, They. 0:32:54.720 --> 0:32:59.240 Wanted that experience. And for those for those four guys 0:32:59.360 --> 0:33:02.760 to get together put all their self interests, their self 0:33:02.840 --> 0:33:07.920 their businesses aside and collaborate and work together and create 0:33:07.960 --> 0:33:11.880 opportunities that would benefit one another. That really says something 0:33:12.280 --> 0:33:16.080 about what it does to be outside sitting around campfire. 0:33:16.120 --> 0:33:19.400 And you're seeing your customers doing that right now, right 0:33:19.400 --> 0:33:22.840 now on this trip. You know, they're all chatting, talking 0:33:22.840 --> 0:33:27.280 about life, learn learn about each other's businesses, but kind 0:33:27.320 --> 0:33:28.760 of turning some of that off too. 0:33:29.160 --> 0:33:33.400 Yeah, totally. So you know you had Harvey Firestone that 0:33:33.440 --> 0:33:37.120 speaks for cellfire centires right, and Thomas Edison. We know 0:33:37.200 --> 0:33:40.360 Thomas Edison, we know Henry Ford. And then there was 0:33:40.400 --> 0:33:41.680 John Burrows and. 0:33:41.680 --> 0:33:43.280 I don't know much about him, so let's talk a 0:33:43.280 --> 0:33:44.040 little bit about him. 0:33:44.120 --> 0:33:46.120 So John Burrows was a nationalist of his time. He 0:33:46.160 --> 0:33:48.000 was a booker, he was a writer, he was an 0:33:48.000 --> 0:33:51.080 author and it was an artist as well. He liked 0:33:51.120 --> 0:33:54.800 to drawl and trace, you know, things that he saw 0:33:54.880 --> 0:33:58.120 in the wild and it was a poet and so 0:33:58.760 --> 0:34:03.160 he was the guy would be like, hey, Henry, this 0:34:03.240 --> 0:34:08.480 is a woodchucker. Hey Henry, this is you know, an osprey, 0:34:08.560 --> 0:34:12.240 or there's a bald eagle, or you know, here's here's 0:34:12.280 --> 0:34:15.719 some rale mushrooms or here's some ramps. You know. And 0:34:15.960 --> 0:34:19.839 he was that person that really helped them connect and 0:34:19.920 --> 0:34:23.880 inform them about wildlife and the nature and their surroundings. 0:34:23.920 --> 0:34:27.480 So they weren't just driving namelessly. They were being educated 0:34:27.520 --> 0:34:31.520 and they were they were opening their minds to opportunity. 0:34:32.640 --> 0:34:34.640 I think there was some innovation of some rubber that 0:34:34.840 --> 0:34:38.920 was used for Firestone from those from those adventures, you 0:34:38.960 --> 0:34:43.520 know together, I think just general open mindness about the environment. 0:34:43.719 --> 0:34:47.520 Like Burrows, he was such, you know, still connected with 0:34:47.560 --> 0:34:49.840 the environment. He hated the Model T. He hated the 0:34:49.880 --> 0:34:51.840 invention of the automobile because he thought it would like 0:34:51.880 --> 0:34:57.919 destroy society. And Henry Ford was He befriended John Burrows 0:34:57.920 --> 0:35:00.560 because he was a fan of the author, actually a 0:35:00.560 --> 0:35:05.120 birdwatcher too, And so Henry Ford said, why do you 0:35:05.160 --> 0:35:07.080 hate cars so much? And he said, because they're going 0:35:07.120 --> 0:35:09.440 to destroy a modern society as we know, you know, 0:35:09.480 --> 0:35:11.680 it's not going to be the same anymore. And so 0:35:11.719 --> 0:35:14.160 Henry Ford said, well, let me just give you a 0:35:14.200 --> 0:35:15.719 car and then you can tell me what you think 0:35:15.760 --> 0:35:17.680 about it. So Henry Ford just sitting a Model T 0:35:21.320 --> 0:35:23.600 and he fought with it, and they're struggling with it. 0:35:23.640 --> 0:35:25.319 I think he ran it into a barn at one 0:35:25.320 --> 0:35:27.760 point in time. It's really interesting. There's a lot of stories, 0:35:28.400 --> 0:35:31.080 but there's just as we're talking right now, I'm looking 0:35:31.080 --> 0:35:33.560 at this picture on the wall, these guys sitting out 0:35:33.560 --> 0:35:36.480 here on the shaversport where we're at right now and 0:35:36.560 --> 0:35:37.960 probably laughing about the same thing. 0:35:38.160 --> 0:35:40.719 Not a week goes by that someone doesn't reach out 0:35:40.719 --> 0:35:44.719 to ask how they can help support the podcast. We 0:35:44.880 --> 0:35:50.600 are supported entirely by Overland Journal the magazine. So when 0:35:50.640 --> 0:35:53.520 you become a subscriber to the Overland Journal print magazine, 0:35:53.560 --> 0:35:56.320 you get this beautiful book that comes in five times 0:35:56.320 --> 0:35:59.360 a year. It also gives you access to our digital archive, 0:35:59.840 --> 0:36:03.120 and it's well over one hundred pages of gorgeous images 0:36:03.160 --> 0:36:06.880 and detailed testing and adventures from around the globe. So 0:36:07.000 --> 0:36:09.359 if you go to Overland Journal dot com and you 0:36:09.440 --> 0:36:14.080 subscribe to the magazine, use the code Overland Podcast and 0:36:14.080 --> 0:36:16.640 that'll get you twenty percent off. It's only available to 0:36:16.680 --> 0:36:20.279 our podcast listeners. We don't advertise it anywhere else, and 0:36:20.320 --> 0:36:24.360 then you help us to maintain that independent, employee owned 0:36:24.560 --> 0:36:28.280 journalism that we have been famous for, so it allows 0:36:28.320 --> 0:36:32.560 us to conduct those tests without any advertorial Another way 0:36:32.600 --> 0:36:35.439 you can help out too. I produced a book last 0:36:35.520 --> 0:36:38.160 year with Simon and Schuster called Overlanding one oh one. 0:36:38.200 --> 0:36:40.920 You can find it on Amazon or Barnes and Noble 0:36:41.040 --> 0:36:45.160 or even your local bookstore, and that encompasses my decades 0:36:45.200 --> 0:36:47.800 of travel around the world, all my mistakes and failures 0:36:47.880 --> 0:36:51.560 and the lessons that I've learned in traveling around the globe. 0:36:52.120 --> 0:36:54.880 Many of those that you hear on the podcast have 0:36:54.960 --> 0:36:57.920 been distilled down into print form with great lists and 0:36:57.960 --> 0:37:01.319 beautiful imagery, so you can find that at your local 0:37:01.320 --> 0:37:04.080 bookstore overlanding one on one and thank you all for 0:37:04.160 --> 0:37:08.120 listening and for supporting us so much throughout these years. 0:37:08.719 --> 0:37:11.360 Now we talk about AI. They were talking about cars 0:37:11.400 --> 0:37:11.799 back then. 0:37:11.960 --> 0:37:13.480 Yeah, right, right, totally. 0:37:13.800 --> 0:37:17.279 The history repeats itself time and time again. So let's 0:37:17.280 --> 0:37:19.279 talk a little bit about some of the trucks that 0:37:19.320 --> 0:37:21.600 you use you've used through the years, like what your 0:37:21.640 --> 0:37:24.920 what's your current set up and how did you how 0:37:24.920 --> 0:37:25.760 did you put it together? 0:37:26.040 --> 0:37:30.360 So a big thing of tacomas. I've had several tacomas. 0:37:30.480 --> 0:37:32.439 This current platform we're on right now is a twenty 0:37:32.440 --> 0:37:35.200 and twenty five off read premium and we have a 0:37:35.239 --> 0:37:37.880 mod cap ALLUCAP mod cap on the back of it. Nice. 0:37:38.520 --> 0:37:42.160 We've built out the entire rest of the truck with 0:37:42.239 --> 0:37:46.560 AARB front, bumper, step, rails on the sides get played, 0:37:46.640 --> 0:37:49.120 and the new airb wench on the front too. So 0:37:49.440 --> 0:37:54.520 that's all we're doing. So we're going to build out 0:37:54.600 --> 0:37:57.920 a kind of a modest interior, you know, for our travels. 0:37:58.400 --> 0:38:02.399 We'll be going over the next Bow West in May. Yeah, yeah, 0:38:02.680 --> 0:38:06.040 here soon. It's crazy. It seems like it's all happened once. 0:38:06.280 --> 0:38:09.400 Then we'll come home, we'll mount you know, this family 0:38:09.480 --> 0:38:12.239 camper on the truck, and then my wife and my 0:38:12.320 --> 0:38:14.359 son and I we're going to Oregon for thirty days 0:38:14.360 --> 0:38:15.320 and living out of the truck. 0:38:15.480 --> 0:38:15.880 Awesome. 0:38:16.360 --> 0:38:18.359 It'll be kind of a rally between now and then. 0:38:19.360 --> 0:38:21.640 But and will you go to Pacific Northwest when you're 0:38:21.680 --> 0:38:21.960 up there? 0:38:22.160 --> 0:38:24.759 Yeah, so what we're gonna Uh, it's actually going to 0:38:24.840 --> 0:38:27.520 be the same time, but we're doing our seventh season 0:38:27.520 --> 0:38:30.840 of hammer Down filming after that, so it's conflicting with 0:38:30.920 --> 0:38:33.720 that weekend. But we actually, you know, we'll be starting 0:38:33.719 --> 0:38:37.719 hammer Down on that weekend over then next XBOPNW. But 0:38:37.800 --> 0:38:41.799 I've had the whole catalog of valuecab products. We had 0:38:41.840 --> 0:38:44.759 like the fifteenth Kaya camper, you know, it was like 0:38:44.880 --> 0:38:46.760 we had the original Kaya camper. It was a silver 0:38:47.040 --> 0:38:50.680 edition when they had the silver option. We've had the 0:38:50.719 --> 0:38:55.040 Explorer Canopy. We've had you know, the Gen three rooftop tent. 0:38:55.600 --> 0:38:58.600 We had the Canopy Camper when it came out. I've 0:38:58.600 --> 0:39:01.400 had the mod cap of the Twoday sleep top, the 0:39:01.480 --> 0:39:04.800 mod cap with the family top and the modcap with 0:39:04.840 --> 0:39:10.200 the family top is just fantastic. Especially it's like when 0:39:10.200 --> 0:39:12.239 you've got a full family, it's great, but when you're 0:39:12.280 --> 0:39:15.160 by yourself, you've got it upstairs and downstairs, it's amazing. 0:39:15.320 --> 0:39:17.880 I just I love it. You know. We spent thirty 0:39:17.960 --> 0:39:20.399 seven days in Newfounland living out of it last year 0:39:20.920 --> 0:39:24.000 and really got intimately connected with the product, you know, 0:39:25.160 --> 0:39:28.200 and really came back with some positive feedback for you know, 0:39:28.640 --> 0:39:32.000 you have USA team and okay for World Drive you know, 0:39:32.080 --> 0:39:34.640 from that to try to create some more opportunities to 0:39:34.840 --> 0:39:38.120 you know, further improve a great product. But that's what 0:39:38.239 --> 0:39:41.480 works really well for us, like for our guided trips, 0:39:41.520 --> 0:39:44.680 Like you know, it's important for us to stay organized, 0:39:44.719 --> 0:39:47.480 to get good sleep, to be comfortable, to be quick. 0:39:48.560 --> 0:39:50.600 You know, when you've got five other trucks with you 0:39:50.680 --> 0:39:52.960 on a guided trip, you know, as a guide, you 0:39:53.040 --> 0:39:55.680 need to be ready when they're ready. And it's easy 0:39:56.080 --> 0:39:57.960 if you need to. If you need a couple of 0:39:57.960 --> 0:39:59.799 minutes more sleep, you can because you know, you can 0:39:59.840 --> 0:40:01.239 just out of the truck and close it up and 0:40:01.239 --> 0:40:01.680 be done with it. 0:40:01.800 --> 0:40:03.600 Yeah, they do button up really quick. 0:40:03.800 --> 0:40:06.920 Yeah, they really do, and you know, very very happy 0:40:06.960 --> 0:40:09.000 with the product. But yeah, I love my Tacomas. 0:40:09.239 --> 0:40:11.680 Yeah, I mean that was how I started, really was 0:40:11.800 --> 0:40:12.839 with the Tacoma in two. 0:40:13.160 --> 0:40:14.400 I remember your Tacoma. 0:40:14.800 --> 0:40:17.640 I love that thing. But it was way too heavy. Yeah, 0:40:17.680 --> 0:40:18.640 it was way too heavy. 0:40:18.640 --> 0:40:20.879 But we learned we all learned that along the way 0:40:21.400 --> 0:40:23.799 off by butt bolting everything on and then you realize that, yeah, 0:40:23.800 --> 0:40:24.560 maybe that doesn't work. 0:40:24.520 --> 0:40:27.480 So well, it doesn't work so well anymore. Dial it 0:40:27.560 --> 0:40:28.279 back a little bit. 0:40:28.920 --> 0:40:31.279 Yeah, we're trying to focus on the weight of this 0:40:31.440 --> 0:40:35.360 vehicle consistently through the build, right, So we build it 0:40:35.400 --> 0:40:38.800 with a contour canopy first as kind of a touring 0:40:38.880 --> 0:40:41.719 mode to coma just to show people what that what 0:40:41.760 --> 0:40:44.480 that transition looks like. Yeah, but we're really trying to 0:40:44.480 --> 0:40:47.400 focus on how we construct the interior, so we don't 0:40:47.800 --> 0:40:51.040 we try not to exceed in the gross vehicle weight, right. 0:40:51.080 --> 0:40:53.440 So I think that's really important us because that's always 0:40:53.440 --> 0:40:55.600 a talking point people like to talk about and bring up. 0:40:55.960 --> 0:40:59.120 Well it's over, you know, and we always conjustify it 0:40:59.160 --> 0:41:02.480 with heavier suspension and larger braking systems and you know, 0:41:02.560 --> 0:41:05.080 transmission tunes and re gearing and things like that, but 0:41:05.440 --> 0:41:06.880 at the end of the at the end of the day, 0:41:06.920 --> 0:41:08.719 the vehicle is designed to carry so much weight. 0:41:09.120 --> 0:41:11.040 So I wish there was a way for I wish 0:41:11.040 --> 0:41:12.800 there was a way like in Australia. 0:41:12.360 --> 0:41:15.120 Where we could, you know, do a gross vehicle way 0:41:15.239 --> 0:41:17.960 up upgrade on these trucks. Some of these trucks, I 0:41:18.000 --> 0:41:19.960 think some of them lend himself well to that, like 0:41:20.000 --> 0:41:23.680 a Tacoma or a quarter Master or whatever. You think 0:41:23.719 --> 0:41:25.879 you'd be able to recertify it a little bit high, 0:41:26.239 --> 0:41:26.680 higher weight. 0:41:26.760 --> 0:41:27.799 I just some don't too. 0:41:28.160 --> 0:41:31.279 Yeah, some just aren't really well suited to that. I 0:41:31.400 --> 0:41:33.960 was worried about it as a business. You know, it's 0:41:34.000 --> 0:41:36.400 like if if you run into if you get in 0:41:36.440 --> 0:41:39.799 an accident, is your insurance going to really cover you 0:41:39.840 --> 0:41:41.600 if you're a thousand pounds overweight? 0:41:41.960 --> 0:41:45.000 Yeah? Well, I mean we had that happen. We learned 0:41:45.000 --> 0:41:48.280 a lot about insurance. I think Eric who's on Mountains 0:41:48.280 --> 0:41:51.480 and everyone team, he's also learned a lot about insurance too, 0:41:51.600 --> 0:41:54.640 and like how to properly ensure your vehicle, the right 0:41:54.680 --> 0:41:57.680 steps to take. I think there's always been an opportunity 0:41:57.719 --> 0:42:00.560 for the right insurance company to do that correctly. But 0:42:00.800 --> 0:42:01.920 you know, at the end of the day, you can 0:42:02.000 --> 0:42:04.200 have the best insurance in the world, but it's the 0:42:04.239 --> 0:42:06.920 person here to hit you. Yeah, it all depends on 0:42:06.960 --> 0:42:07.560 their insurance. 0:42:07.640 --> 0:42:08.480 Yeah, exactly. 0:42:08.560 --> 0:42:10.840 So if you run your truck in a wall and 0:42:10.880 --> 0:42:13.960 you have good insurance, you're you're gonna sit fine. If 0:42:13.960 --> 0:42:18.160 that person's uninsured or under insured or under insured, then 0:42:18.280 --> 0:42:20.600 you're it's gonna be tough to figure that out. 0:42:20.719 --> 0:42:23.720 Yeah, that could be a real, a real challenge for sure. 0:42:24.560 --> 0:42:26.640 Let's talk through You know, you've been doing this a 0:42:26.680 --> 0:42:29.560 long time now, you said twenty twelve timeframe you got 0:42:29.719 --> 0:42:33.239 fired up doing this. What are the two, three four 0:42:33.440 --> 0:42:35.680 things that you've really learned along the way that kind 0:42:35.719 --> 0:42:39.520 of have become tenants for you that you then share 0:42:39.560 --> 0:42:43.280 with your customers or fellow travelers or on your YouTube series. 0:42:43.320 --> 0:42:45.520 What are some of the things that you have really 0:42:45.560 --> 0:42:47.280 learned along the way that have made a big difference 0:42:47.320 --> 0:42:48.240 for you as a traveler. 0:42:50.000 --> 0:42:53.880 I think one I hit on was like experiencing it 0:42:53.920 --> 0:42:58.400 for yourself, you know, that that true sense of exploration 0:42:58.680 --> 0:43:03.280 of like that road, maybe getting some advice from somebody, 0:43:03.320 --> 0:43:06.799 but going out and aimlessly finding a place to go 0:43:07.480 --> 0:43:09.400 in a state that you haven't been before and figuring 0:43:09.400 --> 0:43:11.919 out how to get there. Like, I think that sense 0:43:11.960 --> 0:43:14.840 of excitement that I know, that sense of excitement is 0:43:14.840 --> 0:43:18.879 what got me into this lifestyle, created this business, and 0:43:19.080 --> 0:43:21.799 like that's what I preached the most and meaning time 0:43:21.800 --> 0:43:24.920 when we're talking around campfires with our folks, like I'm 0:43:24.960 --> 0:43:28.640 always saying that, I think number two is community. I've 0:43:28.640 --> 0:43:31.040 talked with you about that here, you know, you know, 0:43:31.160 --> 0:43:35.320 community is so important, not just and it's not about 0:43:35.520 --> 0:43:40.160 it's not about me at all. It's about creating really 0:43:40.200 --> 0:43:45.400 good experiences for people to just connect outside of their space. 0:43:45.520 --> 0:43:48.160 I feel like it's like my it's like my duty 0:43:48.200 --> 0:43:51.600 to give people those opportunities. And people come on guide 0:43:51.600 --> 0:43:54.040 to trips with us, then they can go to we 0:43:54.080 --> 0:44:00.920 host a community event without any vendors. It's just come camp, Explore, Cave, 0:44:01.080 --> 0:44:04.719 Orienteer Overland. What's the name of that event again, that's 0:44:04.760 --> 0:44:05.600 adventure XST. 0:44:06.400 --> 0:44:07.600 What time of the year is that help? 0:44:07.960 --> 0:44:13.160 We host it around September eleventh year and it's held 0:44:13.239 --> 0:44:15.640 on Spruce nob the highest point in West Virginia. So 0:44:16.320 --> 0:44:18.279 but they're very it's like a it's kind of like 0:44:18.280 --> 0:44:21.840 this camp cheat experience, but even more laid back and comfortable. 0:44:22.280 --> 0:44:24.640 You know, we have agendas for kids and things like that. 0:44:24.760 --> 0:44:29.240 I think our youth is extremely important to the approachability 0:44:29.239 --> 0:44:32.759 of outdoor recreation and giving kids an opportunity to go 0:44:32.880 --> 0:44:36.000 camp and just get out there with their parents, you know, 0:44:36.120 --> 0:44:38.160 makes the parents feel good because the kids are having fun. 0:44:38.880 --> 0:44:42.080 So the community piece of it is extremely important to me, 0:44:42.360 --> 0:44:46.919 and I've always been one to always embrace that and 0:44:47.080 --> 0:44:51.440 create an opportunity for those people. And honestly, like it 0:44:51.520 --> 0:44:54.040 takes a lot of work to film, and it takes 0:44:54.080 --> 0:44:58.000 a lot of work to make content, but just do 0:44:58.120 --> 0:45:00.800 it at your own pace. Don't stress your yourself out, 0:45:01.200 --> 0:45:04.640 because you'll get to a point where it'll tax you 0:45:04.719 --> 0:45:08.000 and you'll question right. So I always tell people that 0:45:08.600 --> 0:45:11.360 you know are thinking about like starting up a YouTube 0:45:11.400 --> 0:45:14.680 channel or starting up a social media channel, is always 0:45:15.640 --> 0:45:17.279 just like how do you do it? How do I 0:45:17.320 --> 0:45:19.319 get there? Is what they want to know. And I 0:45:19.440 --> 0:45:24.560 just said, always focus on what you can maintain, because 0:45:24.600 --> 0:45:27.000 once you get to a point where you think you 0:45:27.040 --> 0:45:30.919 can do more, you need to maintain that and that 0:45:31.000 --> 0:45:33.920 can weigh heavy on your shoulders. And if that starts 0:45:33.960 --> 0:45:36.320 weighing heavy on your shoulders, you're not having fun anymore. 0:45:37.000 --> 0:45:39.400 Yeah, it stops really being a trip anymore. 0:45:39.560 --> 0:45:39.719 Huh. 0:45:40.000 --> 0:45:42.719 Yeah, you really you're working harder than you do in 0:45:42.760 --> 0:45:43.359 your day job. 0:45:43.600 --> 0:45:48.280 Yeah. I've got a great team of guys that support 0:45:48.320 --> 0:45:51.000 Mountain State overly end and we all work really hard 0:45:51.520 --> 0:45:56.120 to create experiences like this. We had a fun opportunity 0:45:56.160 --> 0:45:57.920 a couple of years ago where we actually opened up 0:45:57.920 --> 0:46:02.120 applications and people submitted video applications and then we put 0:46:02.160 --> 0:46:05.680 them through an overland challenge games and we call it 0:46:05.719 --> 0:46:09.400 the Overland Games, and we hosted a series of you know, challenging, 0:46:09.400 --> 0:46:12.520 stressful situations that they had to navigate through and they 0:46:12.560 --> 0:46:15.279 would a Crewe points and we would, in theory end 0:46:15.360 --> 0:46:17.319 up hiring two of the guides. Well, we just fell 0:46:17.360 --> 0:46:19.440 in love with all of them, so we brought them 0:46:19.480 --> 0:46:22.319 all on. You know, we're just like we can't. It's 0:46:22.400 --> 0:46:26.040 like when we were done and we were like, well, 0:46:26.080 --> 0:46:28.240 I guess it's you guys, And then the other guys 0:46:28.239 --> 0:46:32.319 are just sitting there like, oh man really, and then 0:46:32.360 --> 0:46:34.319 I was like, oh, we'll figure it out. Let us 0:46:34.360 --> 0:46:37.319 just think about it a little bit more. So without them, 0:46:37.360 --> 0:46:40.960 we couldn't do what we do. And it's always been 0:46:41.239 --> 0:46:45.240 fun and manageable to the point that if we're happy, 0:46:45.360 --> 0:46:48.719 our guests are happy and they're having that experience with 0:46:48.840 --> 0:46:50.680 each one of our guys. You know, we want to 0:46:50.719 --> 0:46:52.920 have that. You know, when you go to a restaurant 0:46:52.960 --> 0:46:55.759 and you like, you really like it, but the next 0:46:55.760 --> 0:46:58.680 time you go to that same restaurant with that same chain. 0:46:58.719 --> 0:47:00.799 I'm not going to mention any names, but you had 0:47:00.840 --> 0:47:03.640 that same experience at each of those restaurants you go to. 0:47:04.120 --> 0:47:07.560 That's what we want each of these Guida Tripics experiences to. 0:47:07.520 --> 0:47:09.920 Be, no matter who excellence. Yeah, sure, that. 0:47:09.920 --> 0:47:13.680 Standard of excellence has to be there because that's why 0:47:13.719 --> 0:47:16.080 people will come back. That's why we have such a 0:47:16.120 --> 0:47:19.759 high return rate is because we are focused. People know 0:47:19.840 --> 0:47:21.879 exactly what to expect and then they watch the video 0:47:21.920 --> 0:47:25.440 and they say, these are who these guys are anyway, 0:47:25.600 --> 0:47:29.000 so I know what to expect when I go as well, so. 0:47:29.600 --> 0:47:30.480 I can see it here. 0:47:30.520 --> 0:47:33.560 I mean, you know, you had your team mixing drinks 0:47:33.640 --> 0:47:36.200 last night, and you had other parts of your team, 0:47:36.280 --> 0:47:38.080 you know, interacting and helping. 0:47:38.160 --> 0:47:40.000 I mean they helped me haul my bags in. 0:47:40.040 --> 0:47:43.520 I mean just they just jumped right in to support 0:47:43.600 --> 0:47:45.480 and they did it across not just for me. They 0:47:45.520 --> 0:47:47.920 did it for everybody that's here, so I think you 0:47:47.960 --> 0:47:50.320 guys have made it feel very welcoming. 0:47:50.719 --> 0:47:54.040 Yeah, it's just it's fun. I think everybody can sit 0:47:54.080 --> 0:47:56.279 back and be like that was really cool. You know, 0:47:56.400 --> 0:47:59.239 like that was really fun. Did you see how they 0:47:59.280 --> 0:48:02.000 really enjoyed them when you set up the bar the 0:48:02.000 --> 0:48:04.560 way it was with your menu, and you know, I 0:48:04.560 --> 0:48:06.880 think it was a really nice touch. You know, people 0:48:06.920 --> 0:48:09.200 are having it. Really We're always talking about do you 0:48:09.200 --> 0:48:11.120 think they're having a good time? Do you think they're 0:48:11.120 --> 0:48:13.480 having a good time. We're always focused on that and 0:48:14.040 --> 0:48:15.320 that's what drives us. 0:48:16.200 --> 0:48:20.040 And a special thanks to Hankook Tire for supporting this 0:48:20.080 --> 0:48:25.799 week's podcast. With Summer Underway, head over to Expeditionportal dot 0:48:25.840 --> 0:48:30.600 com for Jeep Beach Vibe inspiration. Our team spent the 0:48:30.600 --> 0:48:34.800 weekend with handcoocked Dinapro Tire at this year's twenty twenty 0:48:34.840 --> 0:48:38.319 six Jeep Beach Week in Daytona, Florida and took a 0:48:38.320 --> 0:48:42.360 look at their Wrangler three ninety two Look for Jeep 0:48:42.400 --> 0:48:45.720 Beach twenty twenty six. When you go to Expedition Portal 0:48:45.960 --> 0:48:47.879 dot com, Well, I. 0:48:47.800 --> 0:48:50.120 Can assure you that everybody's having a good time, because 0:48:50.120 --> 0:48:52.520 that's what I've heard across the board. Had some great 0:48:52.560 --> 0:48:56.080 conversations last night. These two ladies are getting ready to 0:48:56.400 --> 0:48:58.680 go do a big adventure in Africa, so we were 0:48:58.719 --> 0:49:01.600 talking about that and they're awesome, and showed them how 0:49:01.640 --> 0:49:05.120 to use their exhaust break today this morning, and I'm 0:49:05.160 --> 0:49:08.160 just totally enjoying it. You've done an incredible job and 0:49:08.200 --> 0:49:11.879 the fact that this is available for people to come 0:49:11.880 --> 0:49:14.040 out and have an experience where they don't need to 0:49:14.080 --> 0:49:17.600 have spend all that time getting ready or research or whatever. 0:49:17.680 --> 0:49:20.239 They can work with a great team like yours. 0:49:19.920 --> 0:49:22.600 And and come out and have a wonderful experience and 0:49:22.640 --> 0:49:24.640 then head back to work, you know, the next week. 0:49:24.719 --> 0:49:26.640 But that's a pretty rare thing to find. 0:49:26.680 --> 0:49:31.000 It's difficult to find that level of execution around guiding. 0:49:31.040 --> 0:49:33.400 I mean, there's lots of great guides in the world, 0:49:33.400 --> 0:49:35.040 but they tend to really focus on I'm going to 0:49:35.040 --> 0:49:38.839 guide someone, you know, over the Mohave Road. But you've 0:49:38.880 --> 0:49:41.759 got a much broader experience that people are having here. 0:49:42.239 --> 0:49:44.920 Yeah, So the guide thing is kind of interesting because 0:49:44.960 --> 0:49:48.919 we're constantly going to Charleston every year in February March 0:49:48.920 --> 0:49:49.720 while they're in session. 0:49:49.960 --> 0:49:50.640 Yeah, at the. 0:49:50.560 --> 0:49:55.239 Capitol and you know, lobbying for responsible adventure travel, right, 0:49:55.280 --> 0:49:59.080 so you know we got side by sides are crazy, 0:49:59.239 --> 0:50:02.800 like they're all over lace in West Virginia and you can. Yeah, 0:50:02.840 --> 0:50:05.120 and I think it's I think it's great. It's getting 0:50:05.120 --> 0:50:08.400 people outside. You know, I don't have any opinion on 0:50:08.400 --> 0:50:10.319 that piece of it, but I think there needs to 0:50:10.360 --> 0:50:13.000 be some education. And the thing is is, like we 0:50:13.040 --> 0:50:18.040 can force publications, enforce marketing, enforce all of that, but 0:50:18.080 --> 0:50:20.520 it's gonna take it. It's going to take generational like 0:50:21.239 --> 0:50:25.080 knowledge before that because they're coming from you know, we 0:50:25.160 --> 0:50:27.680 can drive anywhere on anything to like now we have 0:50:27.760 --> 0:50:30.879 these extremely powerful machines that will go anywhere. So we're 0:50:30.880 --> 0:50:35.040 just gonna you know, So there's there's an education opportunity there, 0:50:35.200 --> 0:50:39.239 and so we're constantly lobbying, not against that by any means, 0:50:39.280 --> 0:50:44.680 but lobbying for legislation in this state to to qualify 0:50:44.840 --> 0:50:50.160 standards for guide services. There are guide service expectations for 0:50:50.280 --> 0:50:53.680 like the national forests. We're using public reads and we're 0:50:53.719 --> 0:50:58.239 using state roads. So if we use public campgrounds and 0:50:58.280 --> 0:51:01.520 things like that, we pay commissions for that. So as 0:51:01.520 --> 0:51:03.760 far as the guiding goes in this kind of unique 0:51:04.120 --> 0:51:06.719 niche thing that we're doing here in West Virginia, there's 0:51:06.760 --> 0:51:10.440 a big opportunity for the state to create legislation that 0:51:10.920 --> 0:51:14.759 requires guides to have licenses, to have insurance, to have 0:51:14.880 --> 0:51:19.720 proper wilderness for staid training so that we can ensure 0:51:19.760 --> 0:51:21.759 that there's the right people doing it right. And I 0:51:21.760 --> 0:51:24.799 think I'm willing to pay a fee for that, Like 0:51:24.880 --> 0:51:27.200 I'm willing to invest in budget in that every year, 0:51:27.200 --> 0:51:29.799 I'm investing in my team so that they're trained and 0:51:29.840 --> 0:51:33.200 things like that. But we really desperately need that in 0:51:33.239 --> 0:51:38.560 this state. And because as this rose and overlanding becomes 0:51:38.600 --> 0:51:41.480 more popular or maybe you know, it transitions into other 0:51:41.560 --> 0:51:45.399 opportunities for people, we need to be focused on how 0:51:45.440 --> 0:51:47.239 to do it and how to do it responsibly. 0:51:48.480 --> 0:51:50.560 Yeah, and that goes a long way. It starts to 0:51:50.600 --> 0:51:55.759 set standards. It sures people have better experiences, safety improves, 0:51:57.000 --> 0:52:01.279 you have less conflict with other multi use users that 0:52:01.280 --> 0:52:04.040 are out there on the trails. I think that's the 0:52:04.040 --> 0:52:07.960 biggest challenge that we face with the technology that's available 0:52:07.960 --> 0:52:10.040 in the side by side space is that the speeds 0:52:10.040 --> 0:52:12.480 are just so high. You know, in a national forest 0:52:12.560 --> 0:52:14.680 road in the United States the speed limits twenty five 0:52:14.680 --> 0:52:17.480 miles an hour and people don't know that and it's 0:52:17.560 --> 0:52:21.080 rarely enforced. So it just you know, you got that 0:52:21.600 --> 0:52:26.000 elderly couple that's just out trying to hike for mushrooms 0:52:25.920 --> 0:52:28.279 or whatever they are, and you know, you know, and 0:52:28.320 --> 0:52:31.040 that's just they could get injured or it could be 0:52:31.040 --> 0:52:32.439 a really bad experience for them. 0:52:32.840 --> 0:52:35.040 So I just think is as an. 0:52:35.000 --> 0:52:37.759 Industry, we need to continue to reinforce the fact that 0:52:38.560 --> 0:52:41.319 responsible use is going to allow for long term use 0:52:42.360 --> 0:52:45.320 if we're irresponsible with it and people driving like maniacs 0:52:45.360 --> 0:52:46.560 and they're just going to shut it down. 0:52:47.160 --> 0:52:50.440 Yeah, I mean I as a kid, like I had 0:52:50.480 --> 0:52:53.920 a lot of fun, you know, I learned lessons and 0:52:53.960 --> 0:52:57.239 then as I grew up, I knew what I should 0:52:57.239 --> 0:52:59.080 and shouldn't do. What we have right now is we 0:52:59.120 --> 0:53:04.080 have adults into a hobby where they weren't youth, you know, 0:53:04.160 --> 0:53:06.920 making mistakes and doing things the wrong way and learning. 0:53:07.440 --> 0:53:11.319 So there's a clear opportunity for us to and that's 0:53:11.360 --> 0:53:14.120 what we do. Like everybody signs a tread lightly agreement 0:53:14.160 --> 0:53:16.080 when they come on a trip with us, like they 0:53:16.120 --> 0:53:18.600 know what our rules are, you know, they know what 0:53:18.719 --> 0:53:21.480 the rules of tread lightly are and so we enforce 0:53:21.560 --> 0:53:24.280 that and we talk about that like that's really important. 0:53:24.280 --> 0:53:26.399 And I feel like we're doing that because those people 0:53:26.480 --> 0:53:29.640 are touching people that are in the space and they're 0:53:29.680 --> 0:53:32.280 seeing somebody doing something and being like, yeah, you probably 0:53:32.320 --> 0:53:33.000 shouldn't do that. 0:53:33.800 --> 0:53:37.759 How you create a new standard and the industry will 0:53:37.760 --> 0:53:38.759 be better off for it. 0:53:38.840 --> 0:53:41.880 Yeah, I think it's in my opinion for sure. Absolutely. 0:53:42.200 --> 0:53:45.600 All Right, Well, let's kind of ask you a couple 0:53:45.640 --> 0:53:48.520 more kind of wrap up questions. I know you're a 0:53:48.520 --> 0:53:51.359 big reader. Let's make sure we give the name of 0:53:51.400 --> 0:53:53.759 the book for this that you kind of ran this 0:53:53.840 --> 0:53:57.280 whole trip around, and then any other of your favorite books, 0:53:57.560 --> 0:54:00.440 either of this region or travels. 0:54:00.480 --> 0:54:01.640 So what was the what was the book that you 0:54:01.680 --> 0:54:02.600 gave out to all of us. 0:54:02.800 --> 0:54:04.200 Yeah, he put me on the spot. I think it's 0:54:04.200 --> 0:54:07.839 an American Journey by Wes Davis. There was another one. 0:54:07.920 --> 0:54:12.200 I think it's called The Vagabonds I and that's V. A, G. B, 0:54:12.320 --> 0:54:15.880 O N D S. The Vagabonds, and that refers to 0:54:17.040 --> 0:54:21.680 Henry Ford, Edison, Firestone, and Burrows. They referred to themselves 0:54:21.680 --> 0:54:24.040 as the Vagabonds like that. So if you wanted to 0:54:24.120 --> 0:54:27.800 learn any information about you know, these four characters traveling 0:54:27.800 --> 0:54:29.840 and model t's across the country and they went to 0:54:29.840 --> 0:54:33.360 California too. It's crazy. You can read either The American 0:54:33.440 --> 0:54:36.439 Journey by Wes Davis or The Vagabonds. I can't remember 0:54:36.480 --> 0:54:38.800 the name of the author, but I read both of 0:54:38.840 --> 0:54:41.480 those books. And you know, when we put this trip together, 0:54:41.560 --> 0:54:44.560 I said, we need to give everybody The American Journey 0:54:44.600 --> 0:54:47.960 because chapter eight in the book highly details almost my 0:54:48.160 --> 0:54:51.920 turn in location across the bridge. They turned right, you know, 0:54:52.000 --> 0:54:54.520 and drove up the hill like you can almost kind 0:54:54.560 --> 0:54:57.360 of you feel like you're trying you're tracing their experience. 0:54:59.080 --> 0:55:02.640 There's a lot of really interesting history about West Virginia. 0:55:03.200 --> 0:55:06.080 I couldn't give you any specific book titles. 0:55:06.080 --> 0:55:08.120 Oh that's okay, but if there's one that comes to mind, 0:55:08.200 --> 0:55:10.280 you yeah, I always like to ask that question. 0:55:10.360 --> 0:55:13.560 Yeah, there's there's not anyone in particular that comes to mind. 0:55:13.600 --> 0:55:15.680 I think there's one called I believe it's called The 0:55:15.760 --> 0:55:19.640 Last Forest and it talks about, you know, logging in 0:55:19.920 --> 0:55:24.719 West Virginia's history. Yeah, specific to that, there's you know, 0:55:24.800 --> 0:55:28.160 we have what we had, I think the most recent 0:55:28.400 --> 0:55:31.279 national park added to the state O cool. Added to 0:55:31.320 --> 0:55:34.640 this state the New River Gorsh National Park, which is 0:55:34.640 --> 0:55:36.640 a beautiful place. And again there's a lot of history there, 0:55:36.719 --> 0:55:40.320 a lot of fun stuff we can talk about. But yeah, 0:55:40.360 --> 0:55:42.880 those are some great resources. Like I said, the history 0:55:42.920 --> 0:55:46.800 here is very recent. It's really cool to find gym's 0:55:46.920 --> 0:55:49.400 like this and read about it and then come see it. 0:55:49.640 --> 0:55:50.720 Yeah, super awesome. 0:55:51.320 --> 0:55:55.440 So how do people find out more about coming along 0:55:55.480 --> 0:55:58.480 on trips like this which I would highly recommend. I'm 0:55:58.480 --> 0:56:00.000 already having a great time. We still got a couple 0:56:00.160 --> 0:56:03.000 days left to go. How do people find out more 0:56:03.000 --> 0:56:05.440 about coming along on trips like this? How do they 0:56:05.440 --> 0:56:08.560 find out more about the video series that you guys 0:56:08.600 --> 0:56:11.640 put out? How do they get connected with you and 0:56:11.680 --> 0:56:13.120 your business and your community. 0:56:13.520 --> 0:56:16.640 So Mountainstateoverland dot com, I mean you can hit all 0:56:16.640 --> 0:56:20.040 of our socials from there. We're ms out Overland on 0:56:21.480 --> 0:56:25.440 Instagram and Facebook and everything. But Mountainstateoverland dot com. That's 0:56:25.440 --> 0:56:27.600 where you can, you know, find a guide trip. You 0:56:27.640 --> 0:56:31.000 can watch our videos, you know on YouTube. You can 0:56:31.360 --> 0:56:34.400 you know join when experiences like this. You know, Venture 0:56:34.400 --> 0:56:36.799 ex Fast is coming up first September. 0:56:37.080 --> 0:56:38.880 That sounds like a great start for someone. 0:56:39.200 --> 0:56:42.080 Yeah, that event yeah, it's it's a good price. We're 0:56:42.080 --> 0:56:44.160 trying to keep it. We're trying to keep it the 0:56:44.200 --> 0:56:46.360 same We've kept our guided trips at the same cost 0:56:46.440 --> 0:56:50.520 for five years. So we make tweaks to these events 0:56:50.719 --> 0:56:53.200 and these trips so that we can maintain that cost. 0:56:53.640 --> 0:56:56.840 Because things are the prices of things are just increasing, 0:56:57.360 --> 0:56:59.960 you know, So it's important that we give people more 0:57:00.160 --> 0:57:02.799 value and maintain the cost in my opinion, So if 0:57:02.840 --> 0:57:05.080 we can create ways to do that, we'll always do that. 0:57:05.520 --> 0:57:08.960 And Adventure Access is an Adventure Access is a pretty 0:57:09.480 --> 0:57:12.960 great scheme of things, pretty cost effective, great opportunity to 0:57:13.080 --> 0:57:17.160 meet people in the Mid Atlantic region, in southeast region, 0:57:17.360 --> 0:57:19.120 you know, here of the United States. 0:57:19.280 --> 0:57:21.760 Awesome man, Yeah, well, thank you so much for being 0:57:21.800 --> 0:57:24.120 on the podcast. It's been great to spend more time 0:57:24.160 --> 0:57:26.880 with you. I'm really looking forward to what the rest 0:57:26.960 --> 0:57:29.640 of the weekend is going to bring about. You just 0:57:29.720 --> 0:57:31.680 told me about a cool little trail that walks up 0:57:32.040 --> 0:57:33.640 walks up the river, so I might go for a 0:57:33.760 --> 0:57:37.280 hike after we wrap up. I feel like I'm on vacation, man, 0:57:37.360 --> 0:57:41.160 it's crazy. I'm trying to decide between a hike and 0:57:41.200 --> 0:57:41.600 a nap. 0:57:41.800 --> 0:57:47.160 So well, after the Chili. We just say everybody, that's. 0:57:47.080 --> 0:57:48.800 Great, that's great, awesome. 0:57:48.840 --> 0:57:51.920 Well, thanks again, we appreciate you all listening, and we'll 0:57:51.960 --> 0:57:53.080 talk to you next time.