1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:25,799 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Nol. They call 6 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: me Ben. We are joined as always with our super 7 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:37,599 Speaker 1: producers Paul, Mission Control Decand as well as Alexis nicknamed 8 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:41,919 Speaker 1: to be Determined Jackson. Most importantly, you are you. You 9 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:45,480 Speaker 1: are here, and that makes this stuff they don't want 10 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 1: you to know, or at least that's the name we 11 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:52,560 Speaker 1: use when we describe this show. Today's question starts with 12 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 1: first figuring out what what's in a name? We know 13 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 1: they're powerful currency in the modern media. Right there a 14 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 1: cognitive shortcut. You've only got so much time on air 15 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 1: if you're a news anchor. Names can also function as 16 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:09,320 Speaker 1: what's known as a thought terminating cliche. This is familiar 17 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:12,399 Speaker 1: to a long time conspiracy realist, and the more we 18 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 1: think about this insidious practice of grouping multiple things under 19 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: one phrase, the more often we notice it. Conspiracy theorists, 20 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 1: that's an easy phrase as an example, but then there 21 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 1: are things like truthers, for instance, snow flakes or, for 22 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:33,119 Speaker 1: an historical example, forty niners. This is common. This naming 23 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 1: practice is common in all walks of life, numerous fears 24 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 1: of debate. There's not one political group that does it 25 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:41,399 Speaker 1: more than any other. If you're watching the news and 26 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:44,480 Speaker 1: the United States recently, you are aware of a term 27 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 1: that has attained a new prominence all its own. Antifa 28 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 1: or antifa antifa. I think it just depends on where 29 00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 1: you are when you're saying it. Perhaps we're gonna find 30 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:00,160 Speaker 1: out what it means and you'll realize that all of 31 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 1: those kind of work. It's it's funny because antifa sounds 32 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:08,960 Speaker 1: like someone's aunt who's like named faugh, you know, or 33 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 1: like short for farah. Well. We're also, regardless of how 34 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:17,080 Speaker 1: you choose to pronounce it, you're probably aware of just 35 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:21,360 Speaker 1: how controversial this term and what it represents can be. 36 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:24,799 Speaker 1: It's not a stretch to say there are, if we're 37 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 1: being diplomatic, differing opinions about what antifa actually is, and 38 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 1: we can't even agree how to pronounce it. And as 39 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 1: we explore these opinions, we quickly find ourselves hip deep 40 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:40,919 Speaker 1: in conspiracy. But first, here are the facts. Yeah, and so, 41 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:43,920 Speaker 1: you know, let's just do a little housekeeping with the 42 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 1: term here. What does antifa actually mean? Where does the 43 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 1: word come from? It seems too many of us to 44 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:54,679 Speaker 1: be a very recent development, um, at least here in 45 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: the United States. The term traces back, however, to Germany. 46 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 1: In the nineteen thirties, the mean As Party of Germany 47 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 1: had a wing called I'm gonna do my best here 48 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 1: anti fascistication. I'm not perfect, but I think that was close. Uh, 49 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 1: it's there's a lot of repeated sounds in that one. 50 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 1: It's it's. I had to do a double take. Um. 51 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:18,799 Speaker 1: And this later became referred to by a much more 52 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 1: abbreviated and punchy word antifa, or of course anti fascists. Yeah, okay, 53 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 1: so one thing I want to hear what you guys 54 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 1: think about this is entirely my own unfounded opinion. This 55 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:32,800 Speaker 1: is not a fact and should be not taken as such. 56 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 1: But it seems to me, if you want to build 57 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 1: a lasting movement or rally around some sort of cause, 58 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 1: it's smarter to make a name that stands for something 59 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 1: rather than against it. Like a good example in this 60 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 1: snowmenclature would be the two very different uh names used 61 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 1: on others on opposite sides of the abortion debate. Supporters 62 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 1: of abortion are are most likely gonna describe themselves as 63 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 1: pro choice, right, and opponents would describe themselves as pro life. 64 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 1: They're not anti abortionist by their own description, And people 65 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 1: aren't necessarily on the pro choice side describing themselves as 66 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 1: uh pro abortion. I don't know there's a marketing power 67 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 1: names there. So, Like anti fascism starts as what like 68 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 1: it's against something that already existed, right, Yeah, but it's 69 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 1: against something that I think most people would typically characterize 70 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 1: as bad. Right. That's the thing that's so interesting about 71 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 1: this whole debate, Like when when when well, yeah, I 72 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:37,040 Speaker 1: don't know, man, what do you think? Well, I just 73 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:40,719 Speaker 1: I would say, first we have to know what fascism is, right, 74 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 1: And that's another part of this whole thing that that word, 75 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 1: that term gets thrown around an awful lot, and you know, 76 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:50,600 Speaker 1: it's on us, uh to learn what that is before we, 77 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 1: you know, are throwing around antifa. Like if my boss 78 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 1: makes me work on a weekend, I call that person 79 00:04:56,760 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 1: a fascist. That's appropriate use of that term. Right. Well, 80 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 1: we're gonna find out here in a moment. The big 81 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 1: thing is that today when that you know, that ternament 82 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:08,920 Speaker 1: antifa is thrown around, it's really misleading because it's being 83 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 1: applied to a ton of different individuals, of groups and 84 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:17,479 Speaker 1: organizations of even the the tactics that are employed by 85 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 1: individuals or groups. Um. And you know the idea here 86 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:24,839 Speaker 1: is to fight fascism, right. Um, it is short for 87 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 1: anti fascism or against fascism? So what exactly is fascism? Right? 88 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: And now now we're in even deeper definitional water, right 89 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 1: because fascism, like antifa or anti fascism, doesn't really have 90 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 1: its own solid uh solid definition. Fascism does have a 91 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 1: fascionating history. Sorry, I'm gonna leave. Yeah, I can see 92 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 1: you can't leave. You're already home, Matt. Are you gonna 93 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 1: go anywhere? But here I've seen all of the zoom going. 94 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 1: Are just gonna move on? No, No, we roll with 95 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: this here on something I don't want you to know, 96 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 1: but it's true. It's a it's a It's a word 97 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 1: that comes from something seemingly pretty innocuous, as an Italian 98 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:14,720 Speaker 1: word fascio, referring to a bundle um, which in this 99 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 1: case would represent like groups of people. UM, so you know, 100 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 1: I think we'll get to this, but it's become negative 101 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:25,719 Speaker 1: by association. The initial like it wasn't designed to be 102 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 1: an inherently negative thing. It was just designed to be descriptive. 103 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:30,920 Speaker 1: Its origins day all the way back to ancient Rome, 104 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:35,720 Speaker 1: when the fascis was a bundle of wood with an 105 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 1: axe head um that was carried by leaders um in 106 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:44,599 Speaker 1: in Roman politics and de finding fascism today is much 107 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:48,600 Speaker 1: more complicated because of the fact that many governments, organizations, 108 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 1: and individuals have been called this. Uh, it's it's been 109 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 1: you know, lobbed around as kind of a term of abuse, 110 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 1: and post World War two, um, this was often used 111 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 1: as an insult by a onents or critics of a 112 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:04,680 Speaker 1: given movement or a government, like the way I, you know, 113 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 1: talk about my boss who loves this show, by the 114 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 1: way I know I I don't mean it, which one 115 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 1: I don't know if he loves the show. We have 116 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 1: so many bosses now, and that's corporate, my figurative boss. 117 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 1: You guys, this is not this is just for the 118 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 1: purposes of demonstration here. But it was Mussolini that really 119 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: got the phrase to kind of catch fire and be 120 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 1: associated with what we think of as fascism today. True story. Yeah, 121 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 1: you're right, in nineteen one of the only uh bad 122 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 1: bends in history. There aren't a ton of them, Uh yeah, 123 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 1: Benito Mussolini. That's where we think of fascism. That's the 124 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 1: sort of origin story of modern fascism. And when we 125 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 1: tried to defying it, we see that a lot of 126 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 1: people in academia and politics have made their careers based 127 00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 1: on arguing what the hell this is or is not. 128 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 1: Generally speaking, it's somewhere between a specific genre of authoritarian 129 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 1: government and a set of tactics deployed by governmental institutions. 130 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 1: So kind of like how all mazes are puzzles, but 131 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 1: not all puzzles are mazes. All fascist governments are authoritarian, 132 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 1: but not all authoritarian governments are fascist. Very good, ben 133 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 1: I love, I love the old mazes puzzles analogy. Um, 134 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:35,960 Speaker 1: so let's talk about what those characteristics are, right, and 135 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 1: some of them are, you know, how they function, and 136 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 1: then what what they do, actions they take. So you 137 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 1: could describe a fascist group or government as being very 138 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:52,720 Speaker 1: very against and opposed to their opposers, to anyone who 139 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 1: is going to be a dissident or not believe the 140 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:59,080 Speaker 1: same things that they believe or fight against. Um, I 141 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:03,599 Speaker 1: guess the desired beliefs of a populace. They're going to 142 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 1: aggressively attempt to suppress that or block that in some way. 143 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:11,439 Speaker 1: They are going to attempt to, you know, use whatever 144 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 1: power that they do have this group or government, to 145 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: essentially use it in a dictatorial way. So what they 146 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 1: say goes anybody else. Again, going back to the first one, 147 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 1: is not welcome. They want to have intense control on 148 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 1: everything that occurs within their their society, within the whatever 149 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:35,319 Speaker 1: it is that they control. Right. Uh, that's everything from 150 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:37,560 Speaker 1: the economy to what people can and can't do in 151 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 1: their personal lives. And another characteristic here is that depending 152 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 1: on how let's say, let's just say it's a government, 153 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 1: depending on how the politics and government work within an 154 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 1: individual area, when you have a fascist group in power, 155 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 1: essentially this group is going to see fit to change 156 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 1: whatever rules existed prior to them coming into power. Right 157 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 1: That's I guess One of the things is that we 158 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 1: could say there when I think hand in hand with 159 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 1: that comes a strong sense of nationalism, Yes, because it's 160 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 1: there has to be another ing, you know, in order 161 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:11,080 Speaker 1: to say we are the ones who are right. We 162 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 1: are the righteous path. All others who oppose us are 163 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:17,200 Speaker 1: wrong and therefore need to be shut down. And that 164 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:19,960 Speaker 1: requires kind of like a you know, it's us against 165 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 1: the world, and that inherently is pretty nationalist kind of view. Right. Well, yeah, 166 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 1: that's a very important important thing here, is that wherever 167 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 1: they are functioning, there is going to be a US 168 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:35,439 Speaker 1: versus everyone else attitude. Essentially that's put forth in everything 169 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 1: from laws to you know, small things on the books 170 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:41,080 Speaker 1: that you wouldn't call it law necessarily, just kind of 171 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 1: a norm um ultra. Nationalism is certainly a factor here, 172 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 1: and it can't. It's sort of the way that this 173 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:53,440 Speaker 1: is a weird sentence I never thought I would say, 174 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:57,719 Speaker 1: not as a deinged on capitalism or fascism, but a 175 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 1: comparison I think that's worth making, is that the same 176 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:06,680 Speaker 1: way capitalism must have a profit motive to exist for 177 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 1: that mechanism to work, fascism must have a conflict motive 178 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 1: to exist. Fascism must exist in opposition to something. And 179 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 1: also it's super convenient if you're an iron gloved dictator, 180 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 1: because you can just change what fascism means whatever you want. 181 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 1: You know, what I mean, we've always been at war 182 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:32,599 Speaker 1: with East Asia. Right, that's one of the most pivotal 183 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:36,840 Speaker 1: impactful lines of fascism and fiction. And orwell himself of 184 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 1: course avowed anti fascist or ANTIPA member. But so ANTIFI 185 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 1: is something we can't fully define, fighting something that we 186 00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:52,320 Speaker 1: also can't fully defined. We know the characteristics, we know 187 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 1: the actions and the tactics. Um, But I mean trigued 188 00:11:56,400 --> 00:12:00,599 Speaker 1: to hear more about ANTIFI history because like you, no, 189 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:05,440 Speaker 1: it doesn't It didn't start in seen in Charlottesville. Yeah, 190 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 1: that's right. I mean as a movement, it has its 191 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:11,440 Speaker 1: origins and what we might describe as the left, um, 192 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 1: even the Communist Party, the Socialist Party, the idea of 193 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:20,319 Speaker 1: anarchists and the like. So while fascism is often characterized 194 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 1: as being a far right militaristic you know, hyper nationalists 195 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 1: ideology again problematic even you know, assign it to an 196 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 1: ideology in particular, Um, anti fascism is the opposite. It's 197 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 1: it's it's very much something that that that leans far 198 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 1: to the left. Part of this comes from the simple 199 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 1: order of operations that you find in history. Leftist groups 200 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 1: were the first primary targets of fascist violence. UM. And 201 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 1: it arose as a reaction to that violence, as a 202 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:56,440 Speaker 1: way to organize and protect um folks that were identifying 203 00:12:56,920 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 1: in this way from these types of attacks. In there's 204 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:03,920 Speaker 1: an author who was cited quite often when discussing this topic. 205 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 1: His name is Mark Bray, and he wrote Antifa, the 206 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 1: Anti Fascist Handbook, and he writes about how you know, 207 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 1: the modern movement of antifa, it really started in the 208 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 1: nineteen eighties, and there's a group at that time called 209 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 1: Anti Racist Action. It's members confronted neo Nazis, another pretty 210 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 1: modern movement of an older thing, right. Uh. They would 211 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:32,560 Speaker 1: go to punk gigs, you know, music, uh, performances and 212 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 1: everything they've got in the Midwest in other places in 213 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 1: the United States, and they would just actually have confrontations 214 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 1: with people that they believe to be neo Nazis. Are 215 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 1: you guys familiar with the sharp movement yep, skin Heads 216 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:48,680 Speaker 1: against racial prejudice. I always found that to be fascinating. 217 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 1: It's it's like, you know, with with a rise and 218 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 1: um skin heads in like punk rock scenes and hardcore 219 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 1: scenes in the eighties. Uh, there was a splintering and 220 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 1: fox su like I guess still identified with the aesthetic 221 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:05,880 Speaker 1: of of a lot of that, but but we're not 222 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 1: about that. Life not about that white nationalists um ideology. 223 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 1: And it was something that began in New York in 224 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 1: n but the idea of you know, someone that like, hey, 225 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 1: skinheads can be cool too, you know we we we 226 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 1: can also be like about equality and uh. And so 227 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 1: therefore you have the sharp movement. I think it's a 228 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:27,520 Speaker 1: tremendous point. It's one that echoes what we set up 229 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 1: at the beginning, which is these grouping disparate movements or 230 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 1: people under the same convenient figure of speech or turner phrase. 231 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 1: Sure it feels good to do that, because we're humans. 232 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 1: We categorize and classify things. We want to see patterns, 233 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 1: but we do a disservice to ourselves and others when 234 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 1: we fall into that trap. Uh. By the early two thousand's, 235 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 1: the Antifa movement in the US was, I guess considered 236 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 1: mostly dormant in terms of mass media. Like, they were 237 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 1: definitely groups who align themselves with that, they just weren't 238 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 1: getting in CNN. Yeah, and they certainly weren't getting in CNN, 239 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 1: but they were also they were showing up every once 240 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 1: in a while. I don't know if you guys, remember, 241 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:18,760 Speaker 1: especially during George W. Bush's presidency, there were a ton 242 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 1: of protests and there was some reporting on anti fascist movements, 243 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 1: but it was very few and far between, and I 244 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 1: can't recall at least any major protests that turned violent 245 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 1: in a way that the you know, group in power, 246 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 1: which whoever was president at the time, whoever was running 247 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:42,400 Speaker 1: the show, that they had such um response I guess, 248 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 1: or a public response against this group or people who 249 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:52,280 Speaker 1: they labeled as Antifa or like black Block as well 250 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 1: and occupy movements, which we'll we'll get in the way. 251 00:15:56,040 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 1: We'll we'll meet the Black Block later. Now fast forward 252 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 1: to just a few years ago. Uh, don't call it 253 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:05,800 Speaker 1: a come back, or do call it a come back? 254 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 1: Antifa is back in the news. They get new modern 255 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 1: prominence after the events of what was called the Unite 256 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 1: the Right rally. You probably remember the photographs that went 257 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:21,880 Speaker 1: around the US and the world of people marching with 258 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 1: tiki torches saying things like Jews will not replace us. 259 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 1: This was a gathering of numerous right wing groups, including 260 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 1: as it gets hell from that slogan, white supremacist in Charlottesville, 261 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 1: Virginia and August of twenty seventeen, Antifa was back in 262 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 1: the news in described as counter protesters uh in in 263 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 1: this uh in this debacle. And today, you know, it'd 264 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 1: be surprising to look through most news sources on their 265 00:16:55,480 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 1: websites or watched most news channel shows and now notice 266 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:06,160 Speaker 1: some sort of uh mention of Antifa. But the groups, 267 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 1: there are groups who identifies Antifa. It's a very real thing. 268 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:11,920 Speaker 1: This wasn't made up out a whole cloth. The problem 269 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 1: is that there are a number of groups identifying with this, 270 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:18,479 Speaker 1: and they have different, at times contradictory goals, and they 271 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:21,560 Speaker 1: have an even wider range of different tactics. Right, yeah, 272 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:23,879 Speaker 1: that's right. I mean it would typically be stuff you 273 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 1: would categorize as nonviolent, like chanting, shouting, having sit ins, 274 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 1: human chains, you know, holding up signs, the like. But 275 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:39,280 Speaker 1: Antifa has become controversial because they're like like any luved 276 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:42,760 Speaker 1: together large movement, that there are many, many kind of 277 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:47,520 Speaker 1: splintered factions of like with the skinhead example, UM, there 278 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 1: are going to be more extreme um little kind of 279 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:56,399 Speaker 1: offshoots of this. UM. So some of these factions of 280 00:17:56,480 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 1: protesters that's often referred to as agitators, which is another 281 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:04,120 Speaker 1: kind of term of abuse. That's very easy to categorize 282 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 1: all of the members of this movement as agitators because 283 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:10,680 Speaker 1: of a couple of bad apples or whatever, if you will. 284 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:12,639 Speaker 1: Gotta hate that term, but it is what we have. 285 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 1: Um So, there's a belief in direct action, confrontation, and 286 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:22,040 Speaker 1: at times violence. Uh. That can include things like actual 287 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:27,880 Speaker 1: weapons pepper spray, brass knuckles, throwing bricks through store windows 288 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 1: and cars, vandalism, graffiti, knives, um and you know, switchblades, 289 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:36,919 Speaker 1: things like that that are easily conceivable, and in the 290 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:41,920 Speaker 1: modern day, it can include Internet based tactics, things like doxing, 291 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:45,159 Speaker 1: when you release people's personal information or basically you know, 292 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 1: just outright um misinformation, spreading about individuals and trying to 293 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:55,920 Speaker 1: ruin people's reputations um on online. Um So, for example, 294 00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 1: releasing personal information about a victim online, getting someone fired 295 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 1: for their political views, putting them on blast in that way, 296 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:06,280 Speaker 1: not in a positive way, which someone maybe deserves it, 297 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:08,200 Speaker 1: but I guess deserving it depends on this side of 298 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 1: the argument you're on. Some of these folks who are 299 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:13,440 Speaker 1: righteously indignant might believe that they are doing the right thing. 300 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 1: That that's not really the point. Um So, why are 301 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:19,240 Speaker 1: there so many conflicting narratives and and is there one way? 302 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:22,720 Speaker 1: Is there like a truth core to this whole thing? 303 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 1: So it really does take us back to the main 304 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:29,480 Speaker 1: problem here. And that's in the same way when you're 305 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:33,679 Speaker 1: dealing with a group that has no leader, right, that 306 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 1: has no head, that has no um mission statement essentially 307 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:40,800 Speaker 1: for the entire group, and control you know, from one 308 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:45,600 Speaker 1: sector or from one governing board, however you want to 309 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:49,480 Speaker 1: put it. Uh, just like Anonymous, the same thing with Antifa. 310 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 1: There is nobody at the helm. It is like minded 311 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 1: people that identify as this movement as Antifa. And again, 312 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 1: much like groups like anonymou us with Antifa, when someone 313 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:06,640 Speaker 1: claims they are on Tifa, they are on Tifa. That's 314 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:10,880 Speaker 1: how it goes, right, And that's your qualification is wanting 315 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:15,119 Speaker 1: to be that right? Yes, And then generally you know, 316 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 1: there's no swag to buy necessarily. I'm sure you could 317 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 1: find it somewhere on Pinterest. Somebody's got of an amazing 318 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 1: Antifa store there. It's not like the KKK or the 319 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 1: Communist Party. I'm picking two different organizations. So I'm not 320 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 1: picking anyone. Like you want to be in the Communist Party, 321 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:35,000 Speaker 1: you have to apply to a body, you have to join. 322 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 1: There's a membership. They're probably dues KKK is the same. 323 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:42,160 Speaker 1: They have ranks, they have hierarchy that doesn't exist in 324 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 1: this concept. Yeah, or like the Crips and the Bloods 325 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 1: who both had their own soda in Atlanta at least 326 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:52,199 Speaker 1: for a while there thanks to Killer Mike. Good on you, 327 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:58,199 Speaker 1: Killer Mike. Yeah, you know you have to. You have 328 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 1: to look at this in from both right, and that's 329 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:03,960 Speaker 1: what we're attempting to do today. So not only do 330 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:07,480 Speaker 1: you just get to decide that you're Antifa and then 331 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,879 Speaker 1: you become Antifa in the same way, if you have 332 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:13,879 Speaker 1: an opponent, let's say, or someone that you dislike their 333 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 1: views with, and you label them through your words or 334 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:22,439 Speaker 1: actions Antifa, then guess what they are until that person 335 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:25,359 Speaker 1: comes for it improves that they are not right, and 336 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:28,959 Speaker 1: then you can say that's exactly what an Antifa member 337 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:36,520 Speaker 1: would say. Yeah, yeah, it's really good. You're absolutely right, Matt. 338 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:41,720 Speaker 1: The definition is dangerously malleable if you think about it. 339 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:46,399 Speaker 1: It's like beauty or pornography. The definition all too often 340 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 1: lies in the eye of the beholder, and and for 341 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:53,119 Speaker 1: anyone interested in what a problem those two definitions have 342 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:56,960 Speaker 1: been I would I would recommend checking out the court 343 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 1: case in the US pertaining to James Joyce's Ulysses, where 344 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:05,880 Speaker 1: the uh I think the deciding legal opinion was some 345 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:11,439 Speaker 1: high faluting version of pornographies. Pornography everybody knows what it 346 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:15,160 Speaker 1: is when they see it. With maple thorpe as well. Sorry, 347 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 1: I don't mean no, st You're totally right. And that's 348 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:21,320 Speaker 1: problematic because that's how Antifa has used as well, where 349 00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:23,479 Speaker 1: we don't have a good definition, but it's used by 350 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:25,639 Speaker 1: people in power as Oh, that's what it is because 351 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 1: I know it when I see it. And it's this 352 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 1: slippery definition that fuels the numerous ongoing conspiracy theories about Antifa. 353 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:38,520 Speaker 1: What are we talking about. We'll tell you after a 354 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:49,719 Speaker 1: word from our sponsor. Here's where it gets crazy. First, 355 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 1: I you know, thinking about this off air, it's it's 356 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:56,679 Speaker 1: always it's like a fireworks show. Do we save the 357 00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 1: big explosion for the end or do we start big? 358 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:03,119 Speaker 1: I feel like we have to start big with the 359 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:07,640 Speaker 1: most prevalent conspiracy theory about Antifa. Oh, I know where 360 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 1: you're going with this, Ben, Oh boy, exactly where you're going. 361 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,920 Speaker 1: So alright, alright, let's just do it. So the first 362 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:24,240 Speaker 1: thing you've probably read likely on Facebook. I'm gonna bet Facebook, 363 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:28,720 Speaker 1: maybe Twitter to Twitter. Actually, you know what, anywhere on 364 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 1: social media, you've probably heard something on there about how 365 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 1: antifa and tifa whatever it is. You know, what are 366 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 1: these groups of all these differing contradictory aims. Somehow all 367 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:46,480 Speaker 1: of these people are knowingly working together in secret and 368 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,920 Speaker 1: have a leader. They actually have a leader, right. People 369 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 1: who really put this theory forward, or people who at 370 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:59,119 Speaker 1: least believe it right, they will argue something like astroturfing 371 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 1: that we've talked about a lot on this show, where 372 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:06,640 Speaker 1: essentially there would be a lot of varying groups standing 373 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:08,960 Speaker 1: in that you would see in the spotlight, right, but 374 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:13,280 Speaker 1: they're actually standing in for something else, and uh, the group, 375 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:15,040 Speaker 1: I mean, that's kind of like a front company. But 376 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:17,040 Speaker 1: in this case, it would be as though every time 377 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:21,760 Speaker 1: you see a big group of protesters, they aren't actually 378 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 1: there of their own volition. They aren't actually there to 379 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:28,160 Speaker 1: protest something, They're being paid to be there. They're like, uh, 380 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 1: I don't know, strawman protesters, I don't know what to 381 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:35,200 Speaker 1: say about that, guys. But ultimately Ultimately, people who believe 382 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 1: this would put forward that these these really wealthy, generally 383 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:44,240 Speaker 1: left wing individuals and groups are the ones that are 384 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 1: behind Antifa. They're the ones funding them, radicalizing them, putting 385 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 1: them on buses or in other ways to send them 386 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,840 Speaker 1: to towns and cities everywhere to wreak havoc on the 387 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:58,680 Speaker 1: United States on both the status quo, on the infrastructure, 388 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:01,760 Speaker 1: on the economy, on everything. And they're doing it for 389 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:06,760 Speaker 1: their own nefarious and probably for you know, money and 390 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,680 Speaker 1: power of reasons. But Matt, a leader of this type 391 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 1: would have to be very, very wealthy and have lots 392 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,640 Speaker 1: of resources and also wield a lot of influence politically. Right. 393 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:19,560 Speaker 1: Oh yes, there is a prominent figure here that you 394 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:24,440 Speaker 1: have likely heard many many times before, Mr George Soros. 395 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 1: Oh yes, you know him, You love him, George Soros. 396 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:36,680 Speaker 1: He's a a billionaire. As of May, his estimated net 397 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:40,920 Speaker 1: worth was in the ballpark of eight point three billion dollars. Uh, 398 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,160 Speaker 1: fellow listeners. It's important to keep in mind, however, that 399 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 1: every person at that level of wealth is more than 400 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:50,000 Speaker 1: capable of hiding the full extent of their assets. So 401 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:52,400 Speaker 1: while it's a good financial guest, you should not take 402 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:56,200 Speaker 1: it as gospel. Soros has been accused of so many things. 403 00:25:56,280 --> 00:26:00,479 Speaker 1: He's he occurs in conspiracy lore, not as often as 404 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:04,680 Speaker 1: the Rothschild's, but he's an up and comer on the charts. 405 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,960 Speaker 1: He's been accused of vowing to destroy the United States. 406 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:12,480 Speaker 1: Uh Reuters claimed to have debunked this, but the belief remains. 407 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:17,199 Speaker 1: He's also been accused of outright owning Antifa, kind of 408 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,679 Speaker 1: the way you would own maybe a trademark or a 409 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 1: company or a battalion. And he's been accused of owning 410 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:27,680 Speaker 1: the Black Lives Matter movement as well. This comes from 411 00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 1: one of his primary political enterprises is something called the 412 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 1: Open Society Foundation. Long time listeners, you know that innocuous 413 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:40,680 Speaker 1: names with a lot of money behind them usually means 414 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:47,159 Speaker 1: something something fishing might be going on. Just be suspicious anyway. Uh. 415 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:51,520 Speaker 1: There that this foundation OSF claims that they support the 416 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:54,479 Speaker 1: aims of the Black Lives Matter movement, and they support 417 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,359 Speaker 1: the aims of other protests, but that they do not 418 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:01,600 Speaker 1: pay these organizations. They don't pay them to organize, they 419 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:05,439 Speaker 1: don't importantly pay protesters to show up, and the leaders 420 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:09,720 Speaker 1: of Black Lives Matter say that they're relatively decentralized group. However, 421 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:13,080 Speaker 1: you do a little bit of digging. Open Society Foundation 422 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:16,360 Speaker 1: makes a lot of donations, They create a lot of grants. 423 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,480 Speaker 1: They did set up a twelve million dollar grant uh 424 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:22,720 Speaker 1: and this is the verbatim quote here to help organizations 425 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:26,679 Speaker 1: fighting institutional racism. They also donate to a number of 426 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 1: related groups things that um ally with their aims across 427 00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:34,200 Speaker 1: the planet. And it's concluding things like planned parenthood. It's 428 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:37,720 Speaker 1: including things that, you know, like groups that try to 429 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:42,720 Speaker 1: address systemic or institutional racism. So kind of this the 430 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:47,199 Speaker 1: heart of this conspiracy sort of hinges on whether what's 431 00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 1: the difference between a donation and what's the difference between 432 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:54,480 Speaker 1: out and out payment, Like are you giving people support 433 00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:57,840 Speaker 1: because you believe in their mission, or are you paying 434 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,560 Speaker 1: them to do to like do a specific task, you 435 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,440 Speaker 1: know what I mean. Yeah. Well, and also it arises 436 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,200 Speaker 1: the question of whether or not by supporting you are 437 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,560 Speaker 1: talking about bussing in protesters or some action like that, 438 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:14,919 Speaker 1: which is something that occurs. We've seen it happen in 439 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:19,399 Speaker 1: the past for you know, various protests, for various photo 440 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:21,359 Speaker 1: opportunities that have occurred in the past. It is a 441 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:25,520 Speaker 1: real thing that has occurred where people are shipped in 442 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:28,919 Speaker 1: from other places on purpose by a group that is 443 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,879 Speaker 1: willing to pay the money for the bus. Right, But 444 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 1: is that inherently like bad or cricket or disingenuous. I mean, 445 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:40,040 Speaker 1: you know, people who support certain political parties might bus 446 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 1: folks into the polls who couldn't get a ride otherwise, 447 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 1: or you know, I mean, isn't this just a way 448 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,240 Speaker 1: of supporting a movement. I'm not saying it's bad. I 449 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:51,200 Speaker 1: am saying we know that that occurs, and it is 450 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 1: possible there if you were, let's say, going to pay um, 451 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,720 Speaker 1: several bus loads of people to go, like you're paying 452 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:00,760 Speaker 1: for the bus and giving each person they are a 453 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 1: small amount of money. Who is going to go and 454 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,480 Speaker 1: spend their day doing that? That would be writing the 455 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 1: line right. Yeah, I mean these are both fantastic points. 456 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:16,240 Speaker 1: I guess I would say, Like, first off, I can't 457 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:20,280 Speaker 1: speak for everybody in the conspiracy stuff fam, but I've 458 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:24,520 Speaker 1: never donated millions of dollars. What I have donated, you know, 459 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:29,240 Speaker 1: has not at this point at least reached some threshold 460 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:33,880 Speaker 1: where uh an organization care specifically what I want, Like 461 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 1: if I donate to a literacy fund. They're not going 462 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,920 Speaker 1: to me and going, oh, you know, is there any 463 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:43,120 Speaker 1: book you don't want kids or the elderly to read. 464 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:45,920 Speaker 1: They don't care. I'll just get a letter that says, hey, 465 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:48,560 Speaker 1: thanks for agreeing with us that people should be able 466 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 1: to read. So I don't know how much how much 467 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 1: power is there, you know? Um, but but that point 468 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 1: about what services or rendered or you know, what that 469 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:02,520 Speaker 1: money is supporting. It's kind of like, um, you know, 470 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 1: the argument is like with the Tea party argument where 471 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 1: people said these folks might think their grassroots protesters, but 472 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 1: they're being funded and and pushed into the forefront by 473 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:15,960 Speaker 1: very powerful right wing entities, and that that did turn 474 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,959 Speaker 1: out to be at least partially true. Um. I I 475 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:21,960 Speaker 1: just don't know. I think also, I've got I don't 476 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:23,200 Speaker 1: know about you guys, but I have a little bit 477 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:26,400 Speaker 1: of a billionaire prejudice. I just like we see the 478 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:30,880 Speaker 1: way that countries with less money than Soros are able 479 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 1: to already influence elections right in a tremendously effective way. 480 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:40,440 Speaker 1: So isn't it kind of circuitous to like take the 481 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 1: long road around when you could just buy politicians? I 482 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 1: don't know, Maybe it's about the journey. I don't know 483 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:49,360 Speaker 1: what it's like to be a billionaire. Whatever it's about. 484 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:52,240 Speaker 1: I think it is worth us doing an entire episode 485 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:56,480 Speaker 1: on George Soros because there are so many current conspiracies 486 00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:00,240 Speaker 1: surrounding him that it would be worth our time just 487 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:02,480 Speaker 1: to look into him and all his various groups and 488 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:05,280 Speaker 1: see what we can discover. Yeah, people, and here's where 489 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:09,160 Speaker 1: it gets crazy. We're asking for that as well. So agreed. Okay, 490 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 1: So that's like the big tents. That's what you're most 491 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:15,720 Speaker 1: likely to hear about Antifa conspiracies. And it's not always sorrows. 492 00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,560 Speaker 1: We just think he's an excellent example because he is 493 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 1: so prevalent in these ideas. But there are other antifa 494 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:27,080 Speaker 1: conspiracies out there, and some of them might surprise you. 495 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 1: I guess we call his first group the anti Antifa conspiracies, 496 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,440 Speaker 1: the anti anti fascist conspiratory. I don't know, yes, And 497 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:38,400 Speaker 1: to jump into these anti antifa conspiracies, it would be 498 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:40,760 Speaker 1: really helpful if you could take your mind back to 499 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:44,040 Speaker 1: the good old days of Batman. And now, when I 500 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:47,160 Speaker 1: say the good old days of Batman, I mean just 501 00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:53,920 Speaker 1: before Ben Affleck got involved, so like around around the 502 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,640 Speaker 1: time of Batman begins in the Dark Night. Um, there 503 00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:00,480 Speaker 1: is specifically in the Dark Knight, there is is this 504 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:05,000 Speaker 1: amazing scene where Michael Kaine comes in and he says, 505 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:10,080 Speaker 1: some men just want to watch the world bone And 506 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:12,360 Speaker 1: I think he's right. Now I'm just joking. I don't 507 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:14,080 Speaker 1: know if he's right or not. But that is the 508 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:18,720 Speaker 1: accusation of Antifa or groups calling themselves that are people 509 00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:22,560 Speaker 1: identifying themselves as that and wearing you know, shirts that 510 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,280 Speaker 1: have it written on on them that are usually black. 511 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:29,520 Speaker 1: But the concept here is that, you know, the true 512 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 1: motives behind this group are people believing that is the 513 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:37,320 Speaker 1: abs It's essentially chaos, but the absolute dissolution of any 514 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,280 Speaker 1: kind of government, any kind of ruling faction that exists, 515 00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,760 Speaker 1: and and just bringing us all back to zero. It 516 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 1: kind of reminds me of Mr Robot in a way, 517 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,600 Speaker 1: like it reminds me a bit of the F Society 518 00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:54,680 Speaker 1: from from that show in series. Just occurred to me 519 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:59,280 Speaker 1: that maybe the F Society stands for like F society. Yeah, 520 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:04,520 Speaker 1: this is very truth. Yeah, well, the problem here is 521 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:08,720 Speaker 1: that they're not you know, people making this accusation aren't 522 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:13,640 Speaker 1: necessarily wrong, but they also aren't necessarily right. Either there's 523 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,080 Speaker 1: it's all of this stuff. It's such a great area 524 00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:19,520 Speaker 1: because there's probably some truth in that concept that there 525 00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:23,520 Speaker 1: are people who identify themselves as Antifa that would like 526 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:27,520 Speaker 1: to see some of the major you know, governing bodies 527 00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:32,520 Speaker 1: and governments across the world just kind of having to 528 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,400 Speaker 1: start over at least to some degree, right, I mean, 529 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 1: they're anarchists, are real anarchists are probably at least to 530 00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:43,720 Speaker 1: an extent involved in Antifa gatherings, let's say, or people 531 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,840 Speaker 1: who identify themselves as that. But how much or how 532 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:50,880 Speaker 1: little like what that actual influences we just have no idea. 533 00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:54,440 Speaker 1: We we honestly, nobody has any idea. Yeah, it's true. 534 00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 1: I mean it ties into the other, the other anti 535 00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:02,560 Speaker 1: antifa idea of averting the rule of law. Right. Sometimes 536 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:06,000 Speaker 1: it's a it's a billionaire individual like Sorrows. Sometimes it's 537 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:10,440 Speaker 1: a group accused of one world ordering the planet, like UM, 538 00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:14,320 Speaker 1: the CFR or something. And then sometimes it's just playing 539 00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:17,839 Speaker 1: old art anarchists want to see the world burn. Um. 540 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:22,000 Speaker 1: This this does tie in, though, with the other conspiracy 541 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:26,640 Speaker 1: of using well intentioned movements two as a vehicle to 542 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:31,919 Speaker 1: push for a different, unrelated violent agenda. This thing works though. 543 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:34,680 Speaker 1: That's the problem with this one. We know, even the 544 00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:37,839 Speaker 1: most cursory study of human history shows that people are 545 00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:42,719 Speaker 1: easily led and easily misled. So this idea is that 546 00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:47,839 Speaker 1: factions of Antifa, whatever their origins, whatever their motivations may 547 00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:52,080 Speaker 1: actually be, will infiltrate and otherwise peaceful protests or movement 548 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:54,760 Speaker 1: and then try to push it further and further towards 549 00:34:54,840 --> 00:35:04,440 Speaker 1: radicalization and violence. Like you know, like let's say, Noel, Matt, Alexis, 550 00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:08,560 Speaker 1: and Paul are all at a at a protest, a 551 00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:12,360 Speaker 1: peaceful protest against the closing of the local Applebee's, and 552 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,520 Speaker 1: then some other guy that no one has met shows 553 00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:17,840 Speaker 1: up and it's like, yeah, they should keep the apple 554 00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:19,920 Speaker 1: Bee's open. As a matter of fact, you know, if 555 00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,000 Speaker 1: you think about it, we should burn down the chilis 556 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,799 Speaker 1: next to the street, you know, this the next street over. 557 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:27,759 Speaker 1: We're like, no, we're peaceful Applebee's people. They're like, yeah, well, 558 00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,160 Speaker 1: you can't be a peaceful Applebee's person if you're not 559 00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:33,640 Speaker 1: also burning down that Chili's. Well, isn't this a lot 560 00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:36,560 Speaker 1: of the same stuff we covered in the Agent Provocateurs episode. 561 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:38,560 Speaker 1: I mean it really they do kind of go hand 562 00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:42,000 Speaker 1: in hand the idea of someone infiltrating a cause that 563 00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:46,400 Speaker 1: has one particular aim that that could well be peaceful protests, 564 00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:50,480 Speaker 1: and then trying to kind of cause uh, I don't know, 565 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:54,840 Speaker 1: cause division within those ranks and try to convince people 566 00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:57,880 Speaker 1: to to to lash out and do violent things in 567 00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:01,960 Speaker 1: the interest of either co opting movement or potentially even 568 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:06,239 Speaker 1: having the protests be shut down, um, you know, to 569 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:11,000 Speaker 1: aid their particular you know, viewpoints or you would you 570 00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,400 Speaker 1: say these things are related, then yeah, absolutely, you know, 571 00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:16,600 Speaker 1: that's why I would categorize that as a left wing 572 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,640 Speaker 1: antifa conspiracy. So that's the that's the crazy part you 573 00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:24,640 Speaker 1: will hear about the right wing Antifi conspiracies, but you 574 00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:28,359 Speaker 1: may be surprised to learn organizations that are that are 575 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:32,760 Speaker 1: affiliated with the political left are often themselves not automatically 576 00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:35,799 Speaker 1: fans of what they consider antifa. Part of that is 577 00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:39,080 Speaker 1: the agent provocateur question. You know, we've covered that in 578 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:42,200 Speaker 1: other episodes. But that's not a conspiracy theory. That's an 579 00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:48,480 Speaker 1: active conspiracy tactic. It happened before, it's maybe happening now. 580 00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:50,839 Speaker 1: In my opinion, it probably is happening now. Uh, and 581 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:54,200 Speaker 1: it will definitely happen in the future. Uh. We know 582 00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:59,000 Speaker 1: also that left a lot of left wing institutions, movements 583 00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:03,520 Speaker 1: and groups uh have a huge problem with Antifa direct 584 00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:10,200 Speaker 1: action and they say that this, this action, uh, violent action, 585 00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:13,800 Speaker 1: whatever the motivation or intention on the part of protesters, 586 00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:18,440 Speaker 1: creates more problems than it solves. So what makes antifa 587 00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:24,200 Speaker 1: in particular different from other movements. We'll talk more about 588 00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:33,600 Speaker 1: that after a quick break, and we're back with the 589 00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:37,800 Speaker 1: question what makes antifa different? Why is it so special? 590 00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:41,040 Speaker 1: Why is it popping up now more than in the 591 00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:44,440 Speaker 1: past when we've we've discussed that it's historically been a 592 00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:48,279 Speaker 1: thing for for a while. Um. Uh. There are some 593 00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:54,640 Speaker 1: purported crimes of the Antifa movement, or you know, multiple 594 00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:57,480 Speaker 1: movements that exists under this kind of umbrella. One of 595 00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:01,600 Speaker 1: them is something called black block tactics. Yeah, and when 596 00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:04,839 Speaker 1: you're talking about black block, this is something you've undoubtedly 597 00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:08,319 Speaker 1: heard about or seen videos of somewhere, if not on 598 00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:12,799 Speaker 1: live leaks, then in other places. Generally speaking, you would 599 00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:17,160 Speaker 1: describe a black block that's b l o C. As 600 00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:20,319 Speaker 1: a group that deploys some kind of violent tactic in 601 00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:23,759 Speaker 1: you know, one form or another during a protest that 602 00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:27,200 Speaker 1: is occurring for another completely other reason or you know, 603 00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:30,680 Speaker 1: an individual reason for that protest. The black block would 604 00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:35,600 Speaker 1: be there independently, right and they would be doing things 605 00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:41,040 Speaker 1: like we've seen vandalism, destruction of some kind of property occurring, 606 00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:44,080 Speaker 1: you know, while the protest is going on. A lot 607 00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:46,600 Speaker 1: of times a group that we would call a black 608 00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:51,920 Speaker 1: block would be targeting sites of significance to probably the economy. 609 00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:56,000 Speaker 1: That's a very popular one, uh, to government. You know, 610 00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,400 Speaker 1: any kind of building like a city hall or something, 611 00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:04,479 Speaker 1: ban inc headquarters of a large corporation, there would be 612 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:09,320 Speaker 1: what would be considered or described as rioting. They would, 613 00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:12,959 Speaker 1: you know, do something. This one's a little lighter fair, 614 00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:16,719 Speaker 1: but you know, demonstrating without a permit or outside of 615 00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:22,000 Speaker 1: a free speech zone. I think that's an important one. Uh. 616 00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:25,799 Speaker 1: When we were what I was in Chile in Santiago, 617 00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:28,359 Speaker 1: we saw a lot of kind of black block things, 618 00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:33,000 Speaker 1: but they were they were escalating in step with the police. Uh, 619 00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:34,720 Speaker 1: you know, and and a lot of South and Central 620 00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:40,960 Speaker 1: America has heavily militarized police forces. But college and demonstrating 621 00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:43,920 Speaker 1: illegally It sounds like a small thing, but if you 622 00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:48,760 Speaker 1: withdraw the legal means to demonstrate then every demonstration is illegal. 623 00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:52,879 Speaker 1: I think there's some tricky things that legal authorities can 624 00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:55,680 Speaker 1: do there. Well. Yeah, and even the act of demonstrating, 625 00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:59,799 Speaker 1: you are knowingly bringing about a police response, right, So 626 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,360 Speaker 1: if if if it's not legal to do that, you 627 00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:05,840 Speaker 1: know that's going to happen. So then essentially a group 628 00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:09,480 Speaker 1: like this would or functioning as this, would prepare they 629 00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:15,240 Speaker 1: preferred defenses essentially, well, you know, barricades, They would encourage 630 00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:18,040 Speaker 1: others to come out, you know, with them and do 631 00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:22,319 Speaker 1: the same thing. They would provide uh perhaps weaponry or 632 00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:26,080 Speaker 1: other equipment for others, as well as providing medical care 633 00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:30,480 Speaker 1: on site for anybody who's injured in their efforts. So 634 00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:33,960 Speaker 1: why are they called this? Why Black blocks b l 635 00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:38,200 Speaker 1: o C. By the way, Um, they are known for 636 00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:43,320 Speaker 1: really leaning heavily on remaining anonymous, wearing black clothes, covering 637 00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:47,719 Speaker 1: their face, and identifying marks like tattoos. Uh. That that 638 00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:49,880 Speaker 1: being said, though, these are all things that are any 639 00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:51,880 Speaker 1: protesters are going to be doing. Now a lot of 640 00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:54,560 Speaker 1: especially with the pandemic, can be a lot harder to 641 00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:58,080 Speaker 1: differentiate these groups. Um, and we in our episode about 642 00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:01,560 Speaker 1: protesting one oh one, Uh, we made it pretty clear 643 00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:04,440 Speaker 1: that it's a good idea to cover any identifying marks, etcetera. 644 00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:07,680 Speaker 1: But here's the thing moving in a unified mass. The 645 00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:11,080 Speaker 1: logic being they can't get us all, um. And that's 646 00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:13,560 Speaker 1: true of any kind of I don't I don't want 647 00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:15,400 Speaker 1: to characterize this as like a gang or any kind 648 00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:17,080 Speaker 1: of thing like that. That's that's not the same thing. 649 00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:20,120 Speaker 1: But that is a tactic that folks that are saying 650 00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:22,880 Speaker 1: like motorcycle gangs would employ. Uh. They ride in a 651 00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:25,879 Speaker 1: group because you can't chase down everybody. You think people 652 00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:28,120 Speaker 1: can divide and conquer and split and just kind of 653 00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:32,280 Speaker 1: cause the authorities to be overwhelmed. Yeah, and that's still 654 00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:34,319 Speaker 1: sort of the case, right, That sort of works for 655 00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:36,319 Speaker 1: any I mean, that's the reason why if you want 656 00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:38,760 Speaker 1: to get away with a robbery of a small business, 657 00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:41,799 Speaker 1: you go in with twenty people, um, and you move 658 00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:44,760 Speaker 1: out fast. There's a power in numbers. It's an arguable, 659 00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:48,520 Speaker 1: but it might not always make you anonymous. Uh. In 660 00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:52,480 Speaker 1: the future, the surveillance state has been expanding. We've been 661 00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:55,600 Speaker 1: in a massive expansion is phase of that since post 662 00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:59,560 Speaker 1: nine eleven. It hasn't stopped since. Pretty in the future, 663 00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:01,360 Speaker 1: it's can see movable that it doesn't matter what you 664 00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:04,600 Speaker 1: wear or where you leave your phone, Authorities will be 665 00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:07,160 Speaker 1: able to find you or at least make a plausible 666 00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:12,920 Speaker 1: case against you and then proceed from there. Probably another 667 00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:18,120 Speaker 1: tactic that differentiates Antifa in the mind of the mainstream 668 00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:21,960 Speaker 1: media is property damage and it and it can feel 669 00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:25,000 Speaker 1: pretty you know. I don't know about anybody else again 670 00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:28,160 Speaker 1: speak for anybody else, but it feels a little off 671 00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:33,279 Speaker 1: and pretty cold when you're seeing protests about massive injustices 672 00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:36,319 Speaker 1: and loss of human life, and then the first thing 673 00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:39,160 Speaker 1: someone authority says about it is like, we have to 674 00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:41,879 Speaker 1: protect the corporate building, you know what I mean? Like? 675 00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:46,319 Speaker 1: What what? What is the hierarchy? Where? Where? Do where 676 00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:51,640 Speaker 1: do people stand in relation to property? Uh It's it's 677 00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:55,200 Speaker 1: an ongoing argument in this country. Uh So, the idea 678 00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:57,080 Speaker 1: here is that Antifa is different from a lot of 679 00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:02,360 Speaker 1: other protests groups or ideologies because as purposeful physical violence 680 00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:08,120 Speaker 1: is um is in place somehow, so in seen active 681 00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:11,800 Speaker 1: is self identifying as Antifa or Black Block were accused 682 00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:15,959 Speaker 1: of throwing molotov cocktails causing a hundred thousand dollars worth 683 00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:21,719 Speaker 1: of damage in the Berkeley protests February seventeen. So that's like, 684 00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:24,279 Speaker 1: that's like one example. You can find a bunch of 685 00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:29,000 Speaker 1: other examples as as well, and they're often What's weird 686 00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:32,120 Speaker 1: about this is a lot of the accusations of violence 687 00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:36,120 Speaker 1: against people or against property on the side of protesters 688 00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:41,360 Speaker 1: is leveled at Antifa when it's when people calling themselves 689 00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:45,680 Speaker 1: Antifa show up as counter protesters to right wing events, 690 00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:49,040 Speaker 1: you know, neither right or like, I don't know what 691 00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:52,040 Speaker 1: I making up A plausible title in my head would 692 00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:55,200 Speaker 1: be like freedom Rally. I don't know. It's sort of 693 00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:57,360 Speaker 1: like in movies that don't have a lot of budget, 694 00:43:57,400 --> 00:43:59,719 Speaker 1: where you see products and it's like a jug of 695 00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:03,120 Speaker 1: mill that just says milk, you know, or like a 696 00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:07,600 Speaker 1: thing of juice that just says orange juice. Right, it's likely, 697 00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:11,279 Speaker 1: but the thing is here though. That's interesting is that 698 00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:15,560 Speaker 1: proponents of ANTIPA, their supporters or people who say, you know, 699 00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:19,880 Speaker 1: they identify with that this related movements, they will argue 700 00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:24,400 Speaker 1: that the media is misleading people that what is characterized 701 00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:29,359 Speaker 1: as purposeful violence is often instead self defense. And this 702 00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:31,600 Speaker 1: is something you brought up, Matt, that I think is 703 00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:35,040 Speaker 1: a very very interesting thought that doesn't get addressed often enough. 704 00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:39,040 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, sure, and it goes back to the nineteen 705 00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:43,120 Speaker 1: thirties again, this time instead of in Germany in Britain, 706 00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:47,680 Speaker 1: and they had their own anti fascist movement there antifa. 707 00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:52,520 Speaker 1: When there was a group gaining in popularity, of political 708 00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:57,560 Speaker 1: group gaining popularity, they were known as British Union of 709 00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:01,960 Speaker 1: Fascists at least according to reporting by Vox, and around 710 00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:06,880 Speaker 1: that time in this group was attempting to have a 711 00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:09,920 Speaker 1: large parade. Okay, this is a place called Cable Street 712 00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:14,360 Speaker 1: in London there and uh, what this group did, the 713 00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:19,000 Speaker 1: British anti fascist group did was actually throw homemade bombs 714 00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:24,120 Speaker 1: and bricks and other weapons at this group attempting to 715 00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:27,160 Speaker 1: have a parade down the street to the point where 716 00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:30,200 Speaker 1: they had to leave. The whole point here was too 717 00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:38,439 Speaker 1: preemptively attack them in self defense, and which sounds crazy, 718 00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:43,680 Speaker 1: but the reasoning here is to defend against the possibility 719 00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:47,600 Speaker 1: that a fascist group would eventually come to power. Right, 720 00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:51,600 Speaker 1: so they're defending themselves. And now for what the future 721 00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:54,920 Speaker 1: would hold if this group came to power. It's, uh, 722 00:45:55,920 --> 00:46:02,400 Speaker 1: it's logically difficult, but but imagine if you could have 723 00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:05,719 Speaker 1: done that prior to the Nazis getting to power, and 724 00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:08,439 Speaker 1: you did it effectively enough where the Nazis just had 725 00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:13,000 Speaker 1: to go home and be sad. Yeah. But but that's 726 00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:17,080 Speaker 1: the time travel question. You don't know what happens because 727 00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:21,240 Speaker 1: you're changing the timeline and and history is obdurate. History 728 00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:24,400 Speaker 1: doesn't always hinge on one person. Guarantee you if you 729 00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:28,440 Speaker 1: go back in time in in that era of Germany, 730 00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:33,040 Speaker 1: pre rise of Nazi power, Nadolf Hitler, and you kill 731 00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:36,279 Speaker 1: Aidolf Hitler as a child, there will probably still be 732 00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:39,080 Speaker 1: a Nazi party. There will just be a different lunatic 733 00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:42,200 Speaker 1: making speeches, and you'll be locked up because you went 734 00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:44,160 Speaker 1: back in time. And as far as they can tell, 735 00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:48,399 Speaker 1: you just killed a baby. That's it. You're not a hero. Yeah, well, 736 00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:51,120 Speaker 1: you know it does go back to the United States 737 00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:53,960 Speaker 1: campaign of preemptive strikes against a lot of countries in 738 00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:57,600 Speaker 1: the Middle East that were occurring in the early two thousands. Um, 739 00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:04,000 Speaker 1: like they might attack us some a. UM. Yeah. It's 740 00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:09,000 Speaker 1: weird because I think anybody listening with a critical enough 741 00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:11,880 Speaker 1: mind can see both sides of that. I think you 742 00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:15,480 Speaker 1: can see the concept of wanting to protect yourself against 743 00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:18,759 Speaker 1: a group that may arise to power that would be 744 00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:22,000 Speaker 1: very dangerous, at least that you believe personally that would 745 00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:26,239 Speaker 1: be very dangerous. And and also that you're not you 746 00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:29,640 Speaker 1: can't predict the future. That's man, it is just okay, 747 00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:33,920 Speaker 1: it's a it's a complicated process of thinking through. Well, 748 00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:36,359 Speaker 1: let's look at it from another side too. I I 749 00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:39,640 Speaker 1: think this is a tremendously important thought. So let's flip 750 00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:42,800 Speaker 1: flip it a little bit, flip the narrative and say 751 00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:47,280 Speaker 1: what if in the halls of power? Uh. The argument is, look, 752 00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:51,280 Speaker 1: we're playing fast and loose with the constitution. We're cutting 753 00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:57,520 Speaker 1: some corners because we are preemptively defending the country because 754 00:47:57,800 --> 00:48:02,919 Speaker 1: Antifa maybe you know, primarily known as protesting groups now, 755 00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:06,239 Speaker 1: but we think they're going to be terrorists. It's not 756 00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:09,520 Speaker 1: just the thought experiment. That's literally what's what's happening, or 757 00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:12,759 Speaker 1: it's what's kind of in the mix, in the in 758 00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:16,200 Speaker 1: the dirty, dirty cauldred known as Twitter. Well, and that's 759 00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:19,919 Speaker 1: sort of where we get to the point we are 760 00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:23,759 Speaker 1: in terms of the rhetoric surrounding Antifa and the way 761 00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:27,759 Speaker 1: it's used to label folks that may have may have 762 00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:30,840 Speaker 1: nothing to do with it, may not identify as it, 763 00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:35,000 Speaker 1: or even align with any of these concepts, but it's 764 00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:39,520 Speaker 1: something that the President has used quite effectively to label um, 765 00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:43,680 Speaker 1: folks who disagree with him or his policies or with 766 00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:47,279 Speaker 1: protests to to kind of you know, malign or in 767 00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:51,400 Speaker 1: some way diminish, um, the idea of a peaceful protest 768 00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:54,560 Speaker 1: or the idea of the cause that the protests might represent. 769 00:48:54,640 --> 00:49:00,160 Speaker 1: By labeling folks as Antifa and consequently labeling Antifa as 770 00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:03,120 Speaker 1: a terrorist organization, this is something that he has pushed for. 771 00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:06,799 Speaker 1: In June, he tweeted the something to that that effect. Uh. 772 00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:09,719 Speaker 1: And this is absolutely in line with the administration and 773 00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:13,400 Speaker 1: the Justice Department's ongoing argument that ANTIFO groups are the 774 00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:18,200 Speaker 1: source of violence in all recent protests. Um. And yet 775 00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:21,200 Speaker 1: if you if if you've been paying attention, it's not 776 00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:25,520 Speaker 1: one thing. So it's it's it's that absolute leaning into 777 00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:29,400 Speaker 1: this kind of bundling up of of labeling this, you know, 778 00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:34,200 Speaker 1: multiple kind of splintered groups into as one thing, all 779 00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:37,839 Speaker 1: of which must be about the exact same thing, which 780 00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:43,800 Speaker 1: is violence, disruption, agitating, and um, you know, just basically 781 00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:46,200 Speaker 1: characterizing it as being against the rule of law. Yea. 782 00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:50,759 Speaker 1: And of course, you know, anyone can have any intention 783 00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:54,440 Speaker 1: they want at any time, just like an opinion. But 784 00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:57,759 Speaker 1: when it comes to the law, they're they're tricky things there. 785 00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:03,399 Speaker 1: The US doesn't really have the legal mechanism to do 786 00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:07,319 Speaker 1: what the current administration wants to have done. The US 787 00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:13,840 Speaker 1: government only formally designates foreign groups as terrorist organizations or 788 00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:17,000 Speaker 1: f t o s, and that means the actions have 789 00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:22,560 Speaker 1: to be taken internationally, UH through a larger organization. Right, 790 00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:26,239 Speaker 1: the sorrows theory would have to be real. UH, and 791 00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:30,080 Speaker 1: Antifa or people identified as that. To your point, Matt, 792 00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:34,320 Speaker 1: they do exist in other countries. It's not an American enterprise. 793 00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:39,400 Speaker 1: It started in Europe. But those folks are acting autonomously. 794 00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:42,239 Speaker 1: They just sort of agree that they would like to 795 00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:46,719 Speaker 1: use the same methods. So it doesn't seem like that 796 00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:50,520 Speaker 1: meets the requirements for the State Department to label it 797 00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:55,239 Speaker 1: a terrorist organization. But again, what's in a name? What's 798 00:50:55,239 --> 00:51:00,520 Speaker 1: in a designation? Federal law enforcement already uses UH domestic 799 00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:05,120 Speaker 1: terrorism categories to organize and describe cases. Right where they 800 00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:07,640 Speaker 1: bring up the name or the phrase Antifa, and then 801 00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:11,799 Speaker 1: they're already a host of anti terrorism laws that authorities 802 00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:16,000 Speaker 1: can use against what are called domestic extremists. So we 803 00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:19,719 Speaker 1: get we really quickly fall into legal ease here. But 804 00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:23,160 Speaker 1: as we know, in a post nine eleven world, that 805 00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:27,720 Speaker 1: kind of kind of legal ease is too often words 806 00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:30,320 Speaker 1: and wind, you know what I mean, and the practice 807 00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:33,960 Speaker 1: the practice can be very very different. On the ground. 808 00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:36,279 Speaker 1: We should say, of course, that people who identify as 809 00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:41,600 Speaker 1: anarchists and activists using these tactics disagree, surprise, surprise, with 810 00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:46,080 Speaker 1: the administration's claims. They say there's not any evidence. And 811 00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:50,360 Speaker 1: then some other people say, well, shouldn't you consider designating 812 00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:58,080 Speaker 1: far right extremist groups terrorists as well? It's fair question. Yeah, 813 00:51:58,120 --> 00:52:01,160 Speaker 1: I mean, remember when the FBI tried to label Juggalos 814 00:52:01,239 --> 00:52:03,799 Speaker 1: as a terrorist organization. Oh, I thought it was just 815 00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:07,560 Speaker 1: a gang. Yeah, that's it. Sorry, my potato potato. No, 816 00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:10,040 Speaker 1: I know that they're they're very different, but no, you're 817 00:52:10,040 --> 00:52:14,640 Speaker 1: absolutely right. Uh, it does point to a political motive, 818 00:52:14,960 --> 00:52:17,440 Speaker 1: one cannot, at least at the very least, it's hard 819 00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:21,120 Speaker 1: to argue with that. It is weird that the Anti 820 00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:27,279 Speaker 1: Defamation League actually had some information on this, and their 821 00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:33,280 Speaker 1: findings were that well over well over seventy of murders 822 00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:38,399 Speaker 1: that would be considered extremist essentially that have occurred within 823 00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:41,520 Speaker 1: the United States were committed by groups that they would 824 00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:46,880 Speaker 1: describe as far right or a white supremacist. That's pretty 825 00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:50,680 Speaker 1: interesting of those, at least according to the Anti Defamation League. 826 00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:54,920 Speaker 1: And you know, as you can probably imagine, if you 827 00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:59,120 Speaker 1: don't believe that statistic, if you don't agree with a 828 00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:03,120 Speaker 1: group or organization like the Anti Defamation League, you probably 829 00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:08,520 Speaker 1: disagree with that uh statement, right, or do you believe 830 00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:12,120 Speaker 1: it's the opposite? Um. A lot of this ends up 831 00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:17,279 Speaker 1: coming down to belief. Unfortunately, So so what has the 832 00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:23,160 Speaker 1: government itself done in response to you know, these concepts 833 00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:27,439 Speaker 1: about Antifa and the rumors and conspiracies that have been 834 00:53:27,960 --> 00:53:32,160 Speaker 1: roiling up around them. Things fall apart. The center cannot hold, 835 00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:36,240 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. The problem is that there's 836 00:53:36,280 --> 00:53:41,200 Speaker 1: not a unified response the US. The current US administration 837 00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:46,040 Speaker 1: maintains a view that Antifa should be considered a terrorist 838 00:53:46,040 --> 00:53:51,759 Speaker 1: group and subject to uh the considerations that definition includes. 839 00:53:52,239 --> 00:53:55,160 Speaker 1: But Mark Bray, the author you mentioned at the top 840 00:53:55,239 --> 00:53:58,239 Speaker 1: Matt says that this is an attempt to control the 841 00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:02,080 Speaker 1: conversation and shifted away from what he describes as widespread 842 00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:06,880 Speaker 1: socioeconomic discontent in the US, which you know goes across 843 00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:10,480 Speaker 1: all levels if we're being honest, and there there's not 844 00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:14,080 Speaker 1: like one group of people. Uh. That's there's not one 845 00:54:14,160 --> 00:54:18,040 Speaker 1: large group of people that's super happy, right. Uh. And 846 00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:21,839 Speaker 1: he says that there's a there's a mathematical problem here. 847 00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:25,400 Speaker 1: He believes that there are literally not enough members of 848 00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:28,839 Speaker 1: various anti fig groups out there to be doing all 849 00:54:28,920 --> 00:54:31,959 Speaker 1: the stuff that the d o J, by the way, 850 00:54:32,080 --> 00:54:36,560 Speaker 1: and and the administration are are claiming that they have done. 851 00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:40,920 Speaker 1: Um so so yeah, and then you'll see other of course, 852 00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:46,520 Speaker 1: the ideas in municipal, regional level government, state level governments 853 00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:50,479 Speaker 1: may differ. Your individual mileage may vary. Uh, that that's 854 00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:53,359 Speaker 1: the problem. There was a there was a report by 855 00:54:53,360 --> 00:54:57,760 Speaker 1: a national counter terrorism unit in January, want to say 856 00:54:57,800 --> 00:54:59,759 Speaker 1: that found the same thing. They were like, no one's 857 00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:02,920 Speaker 1: on the same page about this. We have these serious gaps. 858 00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:06,799 Speaker 1: I don't know if we can go out and call 859 00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:09,719 Speaker 1: a group terrorists and just keep changing the definition of 860 00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:12,319 Speaker 1: what terrorism is or what that group is until we 861 00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:15,279 Speaker 1: get it to work. Because that's a little bit like, well, 862 00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:20,080 Speaker 1: far be it for me to say the F word fascism? Right, Yeah, 863 00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:23,480 Speaker 1: it's a little bit right to to like, look, we 864 00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:28,000 Speaker 1: all love improvisation, I love improv yes, And is such 865 00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:31,840 Speaker 1: a such a beautiful panacea and balm. But does it 866 00:55:31,920 --> 00:55:35,760 Speaker 1: improvisation belong in these kind of things? Does it belong 867 00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:38,799 Speaker 1: in government? I don't know. Yeah, I mean I guess 868 00:55:38,840 --> 00:55:41,880 Speaker 1: it's it's true, but definitely a lot of things that 869 00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:45,359 Speaker 1: don't belong in government. But we see him every day, 870 00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:49,760 Speaker 1: and improvisations certainly become a big, big one. Yes, And 871 00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:55,080 Speaker 1: this is an ongoing story. Sorry I'm not about but 872 00:55:56,360 --> 00:56:00,200 Speaker 1: this is an ongoing story because right now, if if this, 873 00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:05,359 Speaker 1: what if this perspective was pushed through and this designation 874 00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:09,800 Speaker 1: became closer to being a reality, no one really knows 875 00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:13,360 Speaker 1: what would happen. We haven't been to that like part 876 00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:19,360 Speaker 1: of constitutional argument yet constitutional scholars are the majority of 877 00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:23,080 Speaker 1: them are like, Okay, this would be illegal, but no 878 00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:28,040 Speaker 1: one can no one has proof about that. Like we 879 00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:31,080 Speaker 1: it would be an argument. And while it was being 880 00:56:31,120 --> 00:56:35,080 Speaker 1: an argument, you can bet your bottom dollar that forces 881 00:56:35,120 --> 00:56:37,759 Speaker 1: on the ground which is act Like you know, the 882 00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:40,840 Speaker 1: argument had been decided and whichever way they wish, whatever 883 00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:42,680 Speaker 1: that way it might be, and that's when we're at 884 00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:46,919 Speaker 1: We tried on this one to give an objective view 885 00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:52,239 Speaker 1: of anti Faugh and the conspiracies and the differing narratives 886 00:56:52,280 --> 00:56:55,239 Speaker 1: about it, and also the huge again, the huge, the 887 00:56:55,280 --> 00:56:59,200 Speaker 1: tremendous problems with definitions. If I if I start calling 888 00:56:59,239 --> 00:57:02,960 Speaker 1: people pop arts and the definition of a pop fart 889 00:57:03,280 --> 00:57:05,920 Speaker 1: is that I think you're a pop fart, then it 890 00:57:06,040 --> 00:57:08,640 Speaker 1: just depends on what kind of day I'm having right 891 00:57:08,840 --> 00:57:10,840 Speaker 1: as to whether or not you are prosecuted as a 892 00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:14,840 Speaker 1: pop fart. That's just best pop farts out there are 893 00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:19,120 Speaker 1: definitely strawberry frosted. Just everybody's aware. I like to sent 894 00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:24,240 Speaker 1: him in Sugar Ones myself. I can't stand up really, okay, 895 00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:27,080 Speaker 1: I guess, uh, I guess we're on two sides of 896 00:57:27,160 --> 00:57:31,320 Speaker 1: the pop fart divide here, my friend, because three of 897 00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:33,760 Speaker 1: a Smores guy. I like the spors Ones to know. 898 00:57:33,840 --> 00:57:35,480 Speaker 1: I like the Smares one too, because they've got the 899 00:57:35,520 --> 00:57:38,280 Speaker 1: Graham crackery kind of crust, you know, that really sets 900 00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:40,880 Speaker 1: them apart. But but it's the same as like, you know, 901 00:57:41,240 --> 00:57:44,040 Speaker 1: this labeling thing is something that we see to um 902 00:57:44,640 --> 00:57:49,120 Speaker 1: in in in political rhetoric where people are given kind 903 00:57:49,160 --> 00:57:53,600 Speaker 1: of insulting nicknames and it starts to kind of sink 904 00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:57,800 Speaker 1: into the public when you repeat something enough. Our brains 905 00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:00,400 Speaker 1: tend to bucket things in those ways that you were 906 00:58:00,440 --> 00:58:02,439 Speaker 1: talking about that at the top of the show. Our 907 00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:05,360 Speaker 1: brains look for patterns, and that could be something as 908 00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:09,560 Speaker 1: simple as saying, you know, FARTI Ben bowling, But before 909 00:58:09,560 --> 00:58:12,240 Speaker 1: you know it, people think Ben Boland's got a flatulence problem. 910 00:58:12,240 --> 00:58:14,080 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm just sticking with the fart thing here, 911 00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:18,240 Speaker 1: you know, but it's it's true. And then words are 912 00:58:18,320 --> 00:58:22,400 Speaker 1: very powerful and Antifa because it's such a pithy, little 913 00:58:22,760 --> 00:58:26,120 Speaker 1: brand name sounding thing. It's something that's very easy to 914 00:58:26,280 --> 00:58:28,680 Speaker 1: lump folks into, even if you don't really know what 915 00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:31,080 Speaker 1: it is, which a lot of people don't seem to. 916 00:58:31,600 --> 00:58:35,720 Speaker 1: So we would love to know your opinion about all 917 00:58:35,720 --> 00:58:43,400 Speaker 1: of this. Are you extremely anti antifa or you down 918 00:58:43,520 --> 00:58:48,960 Speaker 1: with whatever that cause represents? You know? According to you? Uh? 919 00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:53,760 Speaker 1: Are you like Chandler, We're a stick of Charlotte, North Carolina, who, 920 00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:57,040 Speaker 1: according to the intercept wrote wrote a message to the 921 00:58:57,120 --> 00:59:00,360 Speaker 1: FBI and was all like, hey, I lead on TIFA 922 00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:03,920 Speaker 1: over here in Charlotte. What's up? And then they totally 923 00:59:04,160 --> 00:59:05,920 Speaker 1: came out to his house to have a little chat 924 00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:08,720 Speaker 1: with him. Um read the intercept. By the way that 925 00:59:08,760 --> 00:59:11,840 Speaker 1: story is called, he tweeted that he was the leader 926 00:59:11,880 --> 00:59:15,040 Speaker 1: of Antifa, then the FBI asked him to be an informant. 927 00:59:15,240 --> 00:59:19,280 Speaker 1: It's fantastic, Um, but you know, how really, how do 928 00:59:19,320 --> 00:59:20,960 Speaker 1: you feel about this? What do you think about it? 929 00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:23,600 Speaker 1: We would love to know your opinion, especially if you 930 00:59:23,680 --> 00:59:27,160 Speaker 1: identify as Antifa or you are a part of a 931 00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:30,160 Speaker 1: group that would consider themselves Antifa. We'd love to hear 932 00:59:30,200 --> 00:59:34,600 Speaker 1: from you and just know your story. You can contact 933 00:59:34,720 --> 00:59:37,000 Speaker 1: us anonymously, by the way, if you wish to do 934 00:59:37,080 --> 00:59:40,959 Speaker 1: that through an email or through a phone call, that 935 00:59:41,840 --> 00:59:44,280 Speaker 1: you can just you can talk to us if you're 936 00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:52,040 Speaker 1: worried about your own safety or privacy. Right. Yeah. Also, 937 00:59:52,080 --> 00:59:55,000 Speaker 1: while you're at it, what's what's your Where are you 938 00:59:55,120 --> 00:59:58,160 Speaker 1: at with this whole pop tart pop fart thing? Uh? 939 00:59:58,640 --> 01:00:00,400 Speaker 1: You know, we want your opinion us. You are the 940 01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:03,240 Speaker 1: most support part of this show and uh, this has 941 01:00:03,240 --> 01:00:05,640 Speaker 1: nothing to do with anything. But I don't know about 942 01:00:05,640 --> 01:00:07,760 Speaker 1: you all. I'm curious. Why is it normal in the 943 01:00:07,880 --> 01:00:12,040 Speaker 1: USDA candy for breakfast? Let us know? Uh, let us 944 01:00:12,200 --> 01:00:14,400 Speaker 1: let us know about the anti fox stuff first. That 945 01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:17,360 Speaker 1: should be the priority you can get in calm. People 946 01:00:17,360 --> 01:00:22,560 Speaker 1: should be eating bacon, right, just bacon, just bacon, you 947 01:00:22,600 --> 01:00:26,000 Speaker 1: know it? Uh? Let us know. You can find us 948 01:00:26,200 --> 01:00:28,400 Speaker 1: in so many ways. As as Matt said, you can 949 01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:30,600 Speaker 1: find us on Facebook. You can find us on Instagram, 950 01:00:30,600 --> 01:00:32,920 Speaker 1: you can find us on Twitter. Of the three, we 951 01:00:33,040 --> 01:00:38,040 Speaker 1: highly recommend our Facebook community page. Here's where it gets crazy. 952 01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:41,360 Speaker 1: You can also find us as individuals online. Yeah, if 953 01:00:41,400 --> 01:00:43,560 Speaker 1: you'd like to do so. You can find me on Instagram. 954 01:00:43,600 --> 01:00:46,400 Speaker 1: I am at how now Noel Brown. If you want 955 01:00:46,520 --> 01:00:50,439 Speaker 1: to know my Instagram handle and you're upset, you're gonna 956 01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:52,400 Speaker 1: have to listen to another episode of Stuff they don't 957 01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:56,720 Speaker 1: want you to know to figure out my handle. Well played, Matta, 958 01:00:57,200 --> 01:01:01,160 Speaker 1: the audience hostage, my man, Oh, the master at work, 959 01:01:01,800 --> 01:01:05,480 Speaker 1: changing the rules as we go, doing a chef kiss 960 01:01:05,480 --> 01:01:08,640 Speaker 1: for you man. Okay, yeah you can also, Uh, I have 961 01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:11,320 Speaker 1: have been building out some survival kids for friends and families. 962 01:01:11,360 --> 01:01:12,960 Speaker 1: You can watch a little bit more of that at 963 01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:15,720 Speaker 1: ben Bowling on Instagram. You can also find me on 964 01:01:15,720 --> 01:01:19,920 Speaker 1: Twitter at Ben Bowling hs W. But I hate social media, 965 01:01:19,960 --> 01:01:22,000 Speaker 1: you might be saying, we have all people get it. 966 01:01:22,200 --> 01:01:23,959 Speaker 1: If you have a message you'd still like to relate 967 01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:25,960 Speaker 1: to us, we have a phone number you can call. 968 01:01:26,120 --> 01:01:28,600 Speaker 1: That's right. You can reach us at one three st 969 01:01:28,800 --> 01:01:32,440 Speaker 1: d W y t k uh leave a message at 970 01:01:32,440 --> 01:01:35,880 Speaker 1: the sound of Ben's dulcet tone. Uh. And I think 971 01:01:35,920 --> 01:01:37,960 Speaker 1: they're what three and a half minutes issue a piece, 972 01:01:38,280 --> 01:01:40,040 Speaker 1: So you know, try to be brief if you can, 973 01:01:40,080 --> 01:01:42,080 Speaker 1: but feel free to leave a couple if you need 974 01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:44,440 Speaker 1: to continue the story. And now we've got a weekly 975 01:01:44,480 --> 01:01:48,320 Speaker 1: outlet for these wonderful messages from you, the most important 976 01:01:48,320 --> 01:01:50,640 Speaker 1: part of the show, So bring them on and you 977 01:01:50,680 --> 01:01:52,440 Speaker 1: might hear yourself on the show. Please be sure to 978 01:01:52,480 --> 01:01:55,000 Speaker 1: let us know if you want to remain anonymous, if 979 01:01:55,000 --> 01:01:56,880 Speaker 1: you want us to take your name out entirely. We've 980 01:01:56,880 --> 01:01:59,520 Speaker 1: been taking last names out just to standard operating procedure, 981 01:01:59,560 --> 01:02:01,680 Speaker 1: but just let n if you want to what level 982 01:02:01,720 --> 01:02:04,640 Speaker 1: of anonymity you wish, and we will honor that. And 983 01:02:04,920 --> 01:02:07,640 Speaker 1: just as a counterpoint, the shorter and sweeter you make 984 01:02:07,680 --> 01:02:10,360 Speaker 1: your message, no matter if it's a suggestion or comment 985 01:02:10,480 --> 01:02:14,360 Speaker 1: or whatever, the better, because honestly, we're still in the 986 01:02:14,400 --> 01:02:16,880 Speaker 1: midst of June messages right now, trying to make our 987 01:02:16,920 --> 01:02:21,000 Speaker 1: way through, so hopefully very soon we will catch up. 988 01:02:21,760 --> 01:02:23,640 Speaker 1: But it's a really totally good problem to have. These 989 01:02:23,640 --> 01:02:26,360 Speaker 1: are these are really great stories, and we're finally at 990 01:02:26,360 --> 01:02:28,640 Speaker 1: a place where we can actually kind of push some 991 01:02:28,680 --> 01:02:30,320 Speaker 1: of those out for for all of you to hear. 992 01:02:30,440 --> 01:02:33,080 Speaker 1: I'm personally excited about it. Me too. I think we're 993 01:02:33,080 --> 01:02:36,840 Speaker 1: all excited. Shorter and sweeter could be better if you 994 01:02:36,880 --> 01:02:39,280 Speaker 1: wanted to, if you wanted to. If you don't want 995 01:02:39,280 --> 01:02:40,920 Speaker 1: to do any of that stuff, but you still want 996 01:02:40,920 --> 01:02:43,160 Speaker 1: to contact us, you can always reach us at our 997 01:02:43,240 --> 01:02:47,120 Speaker 1: good old fashioned email. We are conspiracy at iHeart radio 998 01:02:47,360 --> 01:03:08,120 Speaker 1: dot com. Yeah, stuff they don't want you to know 999 01:03:08,360 --> 01:03:11,320 Speaker 1: is a production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts 1000 01:03:11,320 --> 01:03:13,560 Speaker 1: from my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, 1001 01:03:13,640 --> 01:03:16,480 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.