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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know are

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Speaker 1: you a Charlotte? Everybody? Hi, welcome back, Sarah, Jessica is

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Speaker 1: still with us. Here we go. We're just going to

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Speaker 1: jump right back in. Now, let's go back to you.

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Speaker 1: It's been on my mind because our industry is in

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Speaker 1: such a flux again at this moment, and it reminds

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Speaker 1: me of the flux that we were lucky to start in.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's similar, possibly more so now, but it's

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Speaker 1: still interesting to me when So let's go back because

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Speaker 1: in my mind, what I remember is that you had

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Speaker 1: fluctuated in terms of wanting to commit before we did

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Speaker 1: the pilot, because at one point they sent me the

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Speaker 1: script saying will you read Darren who I know who

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Speaker 1: I'd done? Melos sent me the script saying, will you

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Speaker 1: read the script for Kerrie Bradshaw, And I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I know, I.

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Speaker 2: Are you?

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Speaker 1: Just like there's just no universe because you remember on

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Speaker 1: the page she also was not you ended up making

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Speaker 1: her she was. She was very body and kind of

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Speaker 1: bigger and X rated and whatnot. I was like, I'm

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Speaker 1: a little southern girl. I don't know what you're talking about, Darren,

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Speaker 1: I was like, with this other one, yes, this one

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Speaker 1: over here, yes, yes, but that I believed, and I

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Speaker 1: might have called him to discuss and he has said

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Speaker 1: at that point, I think, you know, we really want

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Speaker 1: Sara Deska Parker, but she's not sure about committing. And

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, these guys start Parker

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Speaker 1: because I was such a fan.

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Speaker 2: Thank you. I don't know how I don't recall. That's

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Speaker 2: not that it didn't happen. I just don't recall it

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Speaker 2: taking a long time. I do recall Pippen, my oldest brothers,

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Speaker 2: and Matthew reading the script, the pilot script, yes, and

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Speaker 2: both of them saying absolutely, you must, you must do this. Well,

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Speaker 2: thank I know I always to get and then to

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Speaker 2: Matthew if I if I was conflicted or didn't know

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Speaker 2: or was just wondering about them. So I think my

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Speaker 2: conflict happened like post doing it, when I had to

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Speaker 2: really be held accountable for my for my own commitment

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Speaker 2: to it, you know. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well, also that there was that big contract. There was

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Speaker 1: a big contract.

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Speaker 2: See, I don't think that. No, So when Chris don't

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Speaker 2: mine was that wrong? Yeah, Like I don't, I know

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Speaker 2: for a fact I did not sign a seven year contract.

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Speaker 1: Wow, good for a five year. I signed seven.

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Speaker 2: I don't think I can signed a five year, but

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Speaker 2: I could be corrected, I really and if I did.

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Speaker 2: I always felt that there was an out of freedom

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Speaker 2: in there. You know that nobody would want anybody to

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Speaker 2: be someplace that wasn't good for everybody.

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Speaker 1: I think Chris believed that, yeah, And I think Chris

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Speaker 1: was unusual in that way.

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Speaker 2: I think he ran his business. I think he and

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Speaker 2: Carolyn and mister Bucus, I feel like they all felt

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Speaker 2: like we're all going to agree if it's not good,

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Speaker 2: or if it's not holding it, if it's not holding

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Speaker 2: us all together in a way that we're excited about.

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Speaker 2: So however many i'd be curious. I'll ask Kevin. I

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Speaker 2: never I know it wasn't seven.

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Speaker 1: Got it?

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Speaker 2: And I'm not sure if it was five?

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Speaker 1: Got it? I mean, for me, I was like, yes,

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Speaker 1: sign my life away four women walking around New York City.

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Speaker 1: I am in. I will try my best to pull

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Speaker 1: it off. I'm not sure if I can. Beautifully, You're

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Speaker 1: so sweet. I'm having, as you know from listening so

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Speaker 1: many epiphanies watching the first season. But I want to go.

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Speaker 2: Back and ask you.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so Matthew, so we've filmed the pilot. I think

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Speaker 1: they had a year and a half because the cable

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Speaker 1: contracts were really long. I think they had a really

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Speaker 1: long time to decide.

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Speaker 2: Oh, they had the time to decide, right.

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Speaker 1: Unlike networks, where you were beholden to the fall season

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Speaker 1: and it was like very much a pickup.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like a grid season. Right, do your pilot a

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Speaker 2: deferment for college or like, exactly do you like me

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Speaker 2: or not? I'm confused?

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Speaker 1: Exactly. Yeah, So you had there was a grid like

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Speaker 1: for for regular pilot season in LA and we were

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Speaker 1: outside that grid because we were also remember when they

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Speaker 1: were like, we're a cable network and we don't have money.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember that?

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Speaker 2: So interesting?

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Speaker 1: That remeded itself over time, thank goodness, but it took

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Speaker 1: a while. Uh so we we you had we filmed

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Speaker 1: in New York. Of course, you were incredibly generous and

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Speaker 1: lovely to me. Do you remember the Dunkin Donuts? No? Sorry,

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Speaker 1: the Christy Kreme.

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Speaker 2: I only because you told the story.

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Speaker 1: I have told that story over the year because for

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Speaker 1: me it was like such a moment that is seared

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Speaker 1: in my memory for so many reasons, because you know,

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Speaker 1: I had been on these network shows, right, I had

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Speaker 1: guest started on The R and Seinfeld and then Dune,

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Speaker 1: Melrose and all very much like traditional television shows, different sitcom,

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Speaker 1: single camera, blah blah blah. But they were, you know,

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Speaker 1: a certain way, and here we are already outside that

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Speaker 1: box in a wonderful, wonderful way of like, you know,

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Speaker 1: where are we filming. We're in the apartments, we're in

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Speaker 1: you know, we're walking down the street. We're wearing some

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Speaker 1: crazy shoes that I kept walk in. Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: you know any things, right, But also I had been

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Speaker 1: a fan of yours, you know, member Honeymoon Vegas, and

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Speaker 1: you know Ellie's story, like, oh fantastic, you know so

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Speaker 1: many things, and I thought you were had such an

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Speaker 1: intelligence no matter the part like elle story, you don't

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Speaker 1: look at that and go like, well, that character on

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Speaker 1: the page is really intelligent. You brought that, you know

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Speaker 1: what I'm saying. You brought that with you. And I thought,

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Speaker 1: this is a part that is so perfect for her

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Speaker 1: because she isn't an obvious Bombshelley type person like I

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Speaker 1: remember when I talked to Darren about it and told

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Speaker 1: him like I can't possibly play Carrie Bradshaw because he'd

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Speaker 1: written the body of Heather Lockley with the mind of

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Speaker 1: Dorothy Parker.

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Speaker 2: And he's like, oh my god, right, oh my god, Well,

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Speaker 2: no one could be that. That's like a fantasy. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I know, a human being.

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Speaker 1: I would make. Oh come on, baby, Oh my god.

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Speaker 1: You haven't rewatched the show, My love You need to

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Speaker 1: one day, one.

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Speaker 2: Day at one time, let alone twice.

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Speaker 1: Okay, we're gonna get to that in a second. It's

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Speaker 1: revelatory to rewatch the show, My Lovely. I need to

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Speaker 1: tell you this. And someday if you ever get sick,

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Speaker 1: which you really don't, but maybe if you're sick one

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Speaker 1: day you could rewatch. Because I really have. It's like

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Speaker 1: a therapeutic situation to rewatch the show for me. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I am literally blown away by you every episode.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, Kristen, I'm not kidding. I am like

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Speaker 2: I was.

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Speaker 1: We were obviously so in it, you know, we were

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Speaker 1: so in it, and it was so challenging time wise,

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Speaker 1: and you know, I felt like it was very elevated

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Speaker 1: for me. It seemed very elevated in terms of the

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Speaker 1: quickness of the dialogue in this Stu. Yeah, so all

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Speaker 1: of that was encompassing me fully and I wasn't like objective.

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Speaker 1: I remember waiting for the VHS type tapes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, and like really like wow, you know.

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Speaker 1: But also in my mind I had somehow felt the

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Speaker 1: first season was like not maybe our best right right right,

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Speaker 1: because like we want, we had very lofty goals, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and things to work through and discover that they weren't

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Speaker 1: going to be helpful, right yeah, not true? Okay, first

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Speaker 1: season wow wow wow.

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Speaker 2: What was interesting about that is someone if anyone ever

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Speaker 2: asks me what my favorite episode is early, I don't

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Speaker 2: really remember most of them, but for some reason I

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Speaker 2: always say value of the twenty something. Oh, it's so

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Speaker 2: good because for some reason, that script, which I didn't

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Speaker 2: realize is Michael Patrick's first script I know, which I

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Speaker 2: did not put together. And when I said, I thought, oh,

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Speaker 2: he thinks I'm trying to solicit some kind of like

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Speaker 2: favor with him by saying that, but I wasn't. But

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Speaker 2: it to me that was like the best, the best

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Speaker 2: of what we were hoping to achieve without saying it, yeah,

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Speaker 2: like we didn't. I don't recall anyone standing around discussing

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Speaker 2: a standard or an idea of what the show should

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Speaker 2: be tonally, and that script to me tonally is like,

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Speaker 2: it's very dark. She goes to and forgive me, I

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Speaker 2: don't remember everybody's storyline, so I'm sorry, I'm not gonna

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Speaker 2: mention other characters. But then it gets like buoyant. It's

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Speaker 2: this other weird thing happens, I believe, with a crossword

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Speaker 2: puzzle and fifth Avenue so good, and I feel like, wow,

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Speaker 2: you let her kind of literally go to a basement literally,

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Speaker 2: and it's dark in the basement. And then the preceding

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Speaker 2: story is it stays kind of dark even though it's funny.

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Speaker 2: And he is so terrific. It's Timothy Oliphant. I believe,

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Speaker 2: it's amazing, so great, probably one of his first Jobs's amazing. Yes,

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Speaker 2: And we're in a tight space. We're always shooting in

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Speaker 2: these tight dark spaces and I don't know where are

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Speaker 2: pretty need attention, you know, they all neglect and like that.

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Speaker 2: And then she's walking down the street and everything on

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Speaker 2: her as I recall it is all used. It's all

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Speaker 2: from Aina's on Thompson Street. There's nothing on her. I

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Speaker 2: don't even know if her shoes were new, Like everything

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Speaker 2: on it was one hundred bucks are less, hundred bucks

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Speaker 2: are less, and I'm trying so hard to give it

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Speaker 2: a kind of this viv like a kind of a thing.

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Speaker 2: And then she pops by and she is walking past

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Speaker 2: not the maybe the Pierre Hotel, and I think it

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Speaker 2: is she's walking north on Fifth against the traffic, I

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Speaker 2: always like to say. And she sees himself and that

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Speaker 2: the grumpy guy, Yeah, a friend who's actor guy, and

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Speaker 2: she just corrects his crossword puzzled with a glove on.

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Speaker 2: And I think there's like some writing implement there. And

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Speaker 2: I just thought, like, yeah, I don't remember the first season.

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Speaker 2: And I always would assume that, like there were big

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Speaker 2: mistakes made and things we got wrong, and that we'd

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Speaker 2: let go and like you toss them aside. But that

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Speaker 2: Valley of the twenty something was like as good as it,

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Speaker 2: you know what I mean, just in terms of like

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Speaker 2: story and how everybody did their job. I agree, and

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Speaker 2: the kind of the the arcs of the up and

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Speaker 2: the down, which I think is really well put. But

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Speaker 2: I would also say to you, and then we're going

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Speaker 2: to go back to this other thing, but also going

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Speaker 2: to say to you, oh, come all, ye faithful the

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Speaker 2: end so good. At the end of the.

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Speaker 1: Season, the first season and you go to the church

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Speaker 1: to see.

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Speaker 2: Oh, come all you Faithful's the end of season one.

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Speaker 1: Yes, can you believe that?

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Speaker 2: I'm could? I think you know what I'm I'm confusing

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Speaker 2: that with our sailor show post.

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Speaker 1: Sorry exactly No. I also I'm like, wait, what happens

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Speaker 1: in Come all ye faithful? Is about faith and relationships?

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Speaker 2: She's good a church.

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Speaker 1: She sees him outside church. She's just walking down the

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Speaker 1: beautiful street with his mother by Mary and Seldy's yes, incredible.

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Speaker 1: And you see them coming out of church and you're like,

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Speaker 1: you're across the street and you're and he comes over, like,

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Speaker 1: what are you doing here? Now? Let me also just

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Speaker 1: say while we're here, like, Big, it's kind of a jerk,

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Speaker 1: is he?

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Speaker 2: Yes? Izzy?

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Speaker 1: She said, Now this is something that was really news

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Speaker 1: to me in some ways because I was always team Big,

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Speaker 1: because I think Charlotte was always team Big. And also

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Speaker 1: I just don't remember like being objective about it all right,

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Speaker 1: Like I didn't think like, should I be team Big?

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Speaker 1: Is he withholding? Is she too good for him? I

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Speaker 1: never thought about these things. We were just in it,

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Speaker 1: you know, what I'm saying. I liked in it, you

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Speaker 1: liked all of it so interesting.

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Speaker 2: I'm not a team. I'm not. I have no teams.

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Speaker 1: Of course you have no teams, but I'm not trying

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Speaker 1: to be exists, right, So there's no teams at this point.

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Speaker 1: I hadn't gotten there yet. But I think the interesting

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Speaker 1: thing for me because the other reason, the first reason

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Speaker 1: I wanted to do the podcast was because I wanted

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Speaker 1: all of us to talk about coming together and to

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Speaker 1: actually get to share our stories that now relate to

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Speaker 1: this thing that has outlived what we ever dreams possible. Right.

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Speaker 1: But also I love to think about the themes and

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Speaker 1: the way that we start in the relationship issues and

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Speaker 1: themes and how they are now today. Are they the same,

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Speaker 1: are they different? I love to think about that, right,

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Speaker 1: because it is really interesting. So one thing that I

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Speaker 1: think about when I watch it is that Big is

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Speaker 1: really withholding and he does something that they is now

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Speaker 1: a word breadcrumbing. He gives you, like just enough to

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Speaker 1: keep you there, Carrie, Carrie, just enough to keep you there,

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Speaker 1: and you are so I mean, you just break my

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Speaker 1: heart watching you because yeah, oh my god, because you're

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Speaker 1: so You're so first of all, you're just so good, right,

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Speaker 1: you have many many layers going on, and in these

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Speaker 1: scenes with him where he's like shut down largely, you know,

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Speaker 1: like there's this scene, there's the episode where it begins

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Speaker 1: with you and he walking down the street with real

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Speaker 1: New Yorkers, so many people in the frame, and you

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Speaker 1: talk about being on an island of seven million people

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Speaker 1: and sometimes all you want to do is hold still

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Speaker 1: with someone and it has you and big and these

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Speaker 1: guys arm around you and you're talking and laughing, and

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Speaker 1: then you stop and you kiss in the middle, and

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Speaker 1: it's just a beautiful moment.

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Speaker 2: It's so do you know what I'm wearing.

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Speaker 1: You're wearing one of your coats?

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Speaker 2: I know South. It's the It's like a sandy colored coat.

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Speaker 1: And no troulu We're not there yet. It's coming. It's coming.

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Speaker 1: But this is when we were probably in February, right,

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Speaker 1: or got it cold.

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Speaker 2: I don't remember this at all.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I have no I know it's amazing, but

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Speaker 1: it's so incredibly good. So you talk about this and

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Speaker 1: you have been hold up with him in the story

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Speaker 1: for eight days. You haven't seen us, and you call

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Speaker 1: I think Miranda, and she's like we thought you were dead.

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Speaker 1: We were going to send someone to find you. And

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Speaker 1: you're like, oh no, just been hold up with Big,

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Speaker 1: like you're very busy in love, do you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean?

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Speaker 2: Yes?

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Speaker 1: And then we all you say, oh, but he has

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Speaker 1: a work thing tonight, so I can see you guys tonight.

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Speaker 1: So we all go out to dinner. I believe it

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Speaker 1: like a place that still exists in Union Square, like

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Speaker 1: Oceana maybe or uh huh, you know, yeah. And I'm

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Speaker 1: wearing like this wacky theory suit, like stylistically highly entertaining,

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Speaker 1: but you look great. And we're leaving the restaurant and

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Speaker 1: Big is in the corner having a dinner with a woman,

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Speaker 1: and you are so like thinking, this is the work

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Speaker 1: thing you carry. I know, it's really hard, Okay, it's

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Speaker 1: really hard. You talk about Carrie as she I talk

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Speaker 1: about Carrie as you.

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Speaker 2: I apologize about it. It's not you don't worry about it.

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Speaker 2: I am not offended, and I mean I'm not in

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Speaker 2: any way right, but this is it.

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Speaker 1: There's another point I want to make about this later,

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Speaker 1: which is that like sometimes people talk about Carrie and

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Speaker 1: I'm like, what are you talking about? But that's because

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Speaker 1: I know you and I can't separate, but I'm just like,

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Speaker 1: what are you Actually, he's saying, this is not true,

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Speaker 1: you know, like people with their thoughts and feelings, right,

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Speaker 1: which we'll get to, but that's because I know you

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Speaker 1: and I can't SEPs do anyway. You we go up,

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Speaker 1: and you go up and you're like, hi to big.

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Speaker 1: The woman has her back to you, and you're thinking,

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Speaker 1: that's a work thing, and you're just strangely in the

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Speaker 1: corner of a restaurant with a woman at a work thing,

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Speaker 1: and he's like, uh, Carrie, and he gets up awkwardly

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Speaker 1: and you realize, oh my god. She turns and she's beautiful,

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Speaker 1: and you're like, and we're over there, like what's going on?

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Speaker 1: What's going on? You know, we're like we're like the

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Speaker 1: Meda Gallery, like the chorus, the Great Chorus, you know.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, and then you're here and it's just going

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Speaker 1: across your face. All the different things are going across

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Speaker 1: your face, and you're like, yeah, I thought you had

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Speaker 1: a work thing, and you're just you just break my heart,

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Speaker 1: like you're so vulnerable but also really trying so hard

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Speaker 1: to roll with it and make it okay. Yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: and then you go out with Miranda and you're like,

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Speaker 1: maybe he meant no, no, no, no, maybe he meant

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Speaker 1: And she's like maybe he just you know, she like

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Speaker 1: cuts you, you know, in the middle, like she has

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Speaker 1: It's all very interesting. But then you you you have

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Speaker 1: a few drinks and you go over to his place.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I know it's so much that I don't remember either.

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Speaker 2: And and you're and you had a few drinks a

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Speaker 2: double extra special episode of sex and no this was

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Speaker 2: a regular every.

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Speaker 1: No, I'm only talking about you so much. Yes, it's

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Speaker 1: so much.

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Speaker 2: She goes over there, drink, you've had some drinks.

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Speaker 1: You go over there, You try to talk to him.

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Speaker 1: He won't talk to you.

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Speaker 2: This is the apartment like of his. It's a beige wall.

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Speaker 2: So they opened the door and there's just basically they built.

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Speaker 1: The wall one flat.

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Speaker 2: You know, we haven't even seen his bedroom yet.

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Speaker 1: Especially we see his bedroom, which is two beige walls.

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Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean? It's really there was

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Speaker 2: a red bedroom.

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Speaker 1: Has a solid red big big We're not there yet,

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Speaker 1: ye yes, okay, we're not anyone near. Everything is beige.

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Speaker 2: Everything is at the end of the that says, what

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Speaker 2: didn't you marry. Somebody said that, babe, we're not there,

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Speaker 2: so sorry.

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Speaker 1: Yes, babe, but we're not there. But it is interesting.

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Speaker 1: You paint your apartment a crew at the end of

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Speaker 1: the season and it's at length and.

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Speaker 2: It's that's that's not that's a bad influence meaning meaning

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Speaker 2: it should have told you do break up with them

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Speaker 2: at the end.

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Speaker 1: You do, you stand up. It's fantastic on the street, babe,

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Speaker 1: it's so great. What was what was she wearing that

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Speaker 1: might not be remembering.

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Speaker 2: A fantastic outfit.

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Speaker 1: You're wearing a beautiful a line skirt because.

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Speaker 2: You think you're going on vacation, but you also know

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Speaker 2: you have that's the crane shot that we did on

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Speaker 2: the stupid. So I think she's that's all thrift shop.

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Speaker 2: I think there's like a polka dot ape and I've

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Speaker 2: got a white yes shirt on which no, it's gone,

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Speaker 2: but I have to say it's good. It works.

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Speaker 1: She was ready to go on a holiday, yes, well,

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Speaker 1: because also you've gone to the church in those crazy

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Speaker 1: straw yes. Oh yeah, they weren't going to be noticed. Oh,

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Speaker 1: Miranda in an orange drop a bible. You drop a bible.

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Speaker 1: It's very dramatic. So that whole episode is incredible.

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Speaker 2: So that's so come will you face out? And that's

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Speaker 2: a season ender yep, And the crane shows up, Yeah, gorgeous. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: like I think they like to end seasons on a

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Speaker 2: crane shot.

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Speaker 1: And look, now we use crane all the time. Who doesn't.

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Speaker 1: They're incredible. But that was his early use of a

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Speaker 1: crane chat because as you remember, it was often handheld

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Speaker 1: and much more the you know, production value was much less,

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Speaker 1: much to Michael Patrick's chagrin. But I find it so

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Speaker 1: charming to look back at.

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Speaker 2: You know, I thought I felt I always felt like

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Speaker 2: it was always it always felt cinematic, like we were

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Speaker 2: always making a movie. I tried to express that to people,

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Speaker 2: I tried to convey it. They'd be like, are you

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Speaker 2: are you taping in New York? And it used to

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Speaker 2: be such a such a still be in my bonnet,

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Speaker 2: And I would say, gracefully, we're filming right, me too,

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Speaker 2: for eighteen hours today and tomorrow, Like we're not a

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Speaker 2: tape show. It's a point like, it's such a distinct

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Speaker 2: difference between But I always felt despite the speed at

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Speaker 2: which we had to work and how much we had

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Speaker 2: to accomplish and any budget constraints, which were not as

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Speaker 2: if they weren't being generous. It was just the cost

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Speaker 2: of doing what we wanted to do. I even though

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Speaker 2: I know the show got much more decadent, it felt

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Speaker 2: like a movie. It felt and looked like when I

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Speaker 2: used to have to watch it, you know. For Michael

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Speaker 2: it looked cinematic. It looked like film to me. But

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Speaker 2: I know we were working in a different way. But

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Speaker 2: I will say when we were shooting on film at

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Speaker 2: that speed and the volume of pages that we were

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Speaker 2: shooting a day, we were still you know, pushing freaking

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Speaker 2: cleagu lights from nineteen forty up and down avenues and

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Speaker 2: cross streets and small streets. Our crew members were dragging

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Speaker 2: panna visions and film magazines of film blocks and blocks

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Speaker 2: and blocks and building track, which nobody builds anymore.

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Speaker 1: I know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So like all those hot lights were a big

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Speaker 2: part of it. So it was all there, the production value.

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Speaker 2: It just had a different look because that's what film,

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Speaker 2: and that's I think we also forget Michael mind, I

405
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Speaker 2: remember we wanted it to look like that. It's too dark.

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Speaker 2: The pilot.

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Speaker 1: Oh but I loved her.

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Speaker 2: I loved her.

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Speaker 1: That was a woman DP pilot was Stuart Dreiberg.

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Speaker 2: And then the first was yes, the first love, and

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Speaker 2: I loved her stuff, loved but I guess it was

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Speaker 2: a little bit too dark.

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Speaker 1: It was too dark. You can't barely see us. But

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Speaker 1: I love it. And I love the flares you know

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Speaker 1: on the street the way street lights and Claire on

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Speaker 1: the Super sixteen.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I mean I love it.

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Speaker 1: And in comparison to now, obviously it's it's very different.

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Speaker 1: But we couldn't do what we did then and have

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Speaker 1: it play on an HD screen, you know just what

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Speaker 1: everyone has though they have remastered them obviously now.

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Speaker 2: But I agree.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to backtrack to this thing I want to

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Speaker 1: ask you about. So we do the pilot. There's this,

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Speaker 1: in my mind, very long break, because I'm literally waiting

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Speaker 1: every day, like, please pick us up. Why wouldn't you

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Speaker 1: pick us up? This is me, of course.

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Speaker 2: How long it really was, I think it was like

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Speaker 2: a year.

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Speaker 1: I think they had a year and a half and

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Speaker 1: they took a year.

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Speaker 2: Shot the pilot in June of shut the pilot in

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Speaker 2: June of nineties seven.

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Speaker 1: That because you got married, I want to say, in

435
00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:43,280
Speaker 1: March I got married May nineteen.

436
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:45,760
Speaker 2: Hey, okay, great in ninety seven, so it was right

437
00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:48,960
Speaker 2: after right right. We got married the morning after I

438
00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:52,040
Speaker 2: closed once but a mattress, right morning after the twenty

439
00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:54,880
Speaker 2: year before you close. Oh my god, because we we're

440
00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:59,639
Speaker 2: there for a year. But the thing I don't know

441
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,640
Speaker 2: is what our first start date was on season one.

442
00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:04,440
Speaker 2: We don't know.

443
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:06,680
Speaker 1: She should look it up someday, because I thought to

444
00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:07,400
Speaker 1: be available.

445
00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:10,000
Speaker 2: I know someone in the room who knows. I mean Arloe.

446
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,840
Speaker 1: The thing that's easy to find is when it aired.

447
00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:13,920
Speaker 1: It's not easy to find it.

448
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:18,000
Speaker 2: When we start aired in ninety eight eight, right, so

449
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:20,280
Speaker 2: in between June of ninety eight. It aired June of

450
00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:23,159
Speaker 2: ninety eight exactly. But we'd finished shooting, we had before

451
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:25,680
Speaker 2: we went on the air first episode, so season that's

452
00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:28,200
Speaker 2: only six months we must have shot.

453
00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:32,119
Speaker 1: I feel like we went in February because remember how

454
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:34,000
Speaker 1: cold it would be and they'd make us pretend like

455
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:34,560
Speaker 1: it wash.

456
00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:38,080
Speaker 2: So that's a very tight air date.

457
00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:41,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, we didn't seem to care. I don't know. I

458
00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:43,919
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know how we did it now

459
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:45,440
Speaker 1: thinking finished.

460
00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:47,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're not leaving ourselves any room.

461
00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:48,119
Speaker 1: I know.

462
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:50,840
Speaker 2: Wait a minute, so both of us are kind of wrong,

463
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:52,840
Speaker 2: are so if we do, if we look at it

464
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,400
Speaker 2: this way, and I want to waste your listener's time. Okay,

465
00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:58,399
Speaker 2: So if we shot the pilot in June of ninety

466
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:00,280
Speaker 2: seven and we were on the air and dud of

467
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:02,720
Speaker 2: ninety eight, we couldn't have been on hold that long

468
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:05,159
Speaker 2: because we had to shoot a whole season pot so

469
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,480
Speaker 2: we both think it was different than it really was.

470
00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:10,600
Speaker 1: That's probably true. I think for me emotionally, it was

471
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:13,720
Speaker 1: a very long So that's what that is something important

472
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:15,880
Speaker 1: to talk about, Kristin. That's a good point.

473
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:18,720
Speaker 2: I definitely am not good at waiting, and I really,

474
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:21,440
Speaker 2: really really I was writing on a decision like this,

475
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:24,919
Speaker 2: and everybody has a different relationship to it, like yours

476
00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:28,680
Speaker 2: was much more. You went toward it, and my my

477
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:31,120
Speaker 2: reaction to a big decision like that was to try

478
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:34,359
Speaker 2: to run away from it. So that's why I just

479
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,680
Speaker 2: turned it off and you kept it on. I kept

480
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:43,040
Speaker 2: it on because you you weren't afraid of doing it.

481
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 1: I wasn't afraid at all, right, I was beyond So

482
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,359
Speaker 1: that makes sense because I also knew how different it was,

483
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:51,960
Speaker 1: and I wanted I felt when we you know, when

484
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:54,520
Speaker 1: we started and again this is something that I think

485
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:57,560
Speaker 1: people forget in some ways. And obviously we have our

486
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:01,680
Speaker 1: incredible new audience thanks to Netflix of younger People, which

487
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:06,119
Speaker 1: is amazing and never would have been in our thoughts

488
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:10,399
Speaker 1: as a possibility. There weren't shows that were focused on

489
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:14,560
Speaker 1: women from a woman's point of view in nineteen ninety

490
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:15,840
Speaker 1: seven or before.

491
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 2: Well, there were a few Mary Tidnam Wore of course

492
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:19,119
Speaker 2: that was.

493
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:25,360
Speaker 1: Already made before, right, then Golden Girls, right, Murphy Brown, right,

494
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 1: But these were very different shows and they were spread

495
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:29,159
Speaker 1: over like.

496
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,959
Speaker 2: Fifty years to start. Also, of course, not to forget

497
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 2: Marlo Thomas.

498
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:37,680
Speaker 1: Marlo Thomas Girl Yess is what we grew up on, right,

499
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:39,800
Speaker 1: But then there was like a dearth, right, you know,

500
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,520
Speaker 1: there was just kind of nothing, and there wasn't anything

501
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 1: that was super super modern in the way that they

502
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,480
Speaker 1: had been for their time. So for us and for me,

503
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,119
Speaker 1: who I was living in LA at that time, I

504
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:52,200
Speaker 1: had been my poor out of work actor self in

505
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:54,639
Speaker 1: New York. Then I had moved to LA and I

506
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:58,000
Speaker 1: was surrounded by out of work actors and or people

507
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:01,119
Speaker 1: who were working a little bit or whatever, fascinated by

508
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:04,159
Speaker 1: the business, as you know, and so I had some

509
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 1: understanding of how different it was and how special it

510
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:11,359
Speaker 1: was from a perspective of how it was going to

511
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:13,480
Speaker 1: tell the stories and how unique it was that we

512
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 1: would get to film in New York that was a

513
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:19,880
Speaker 1: very big deal, and that you know, this like upper

514
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:22,639
Speaker 1: echelon of fashion, you know, which, to me, I was

515
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,680
Speaker 1: just like, oh, what do you mean We're not wearing pantyhose?

516
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:33,920
Speaker 2: I know this was scary for me. I I'm not

517
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:36,880
Speaker 2: wearing pantyhose right, see CC.

518
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 1: This is this is the origin to you guys.

519
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:39,200
Speaker 2: Okay.

520
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:42,200
Speaker 1: So one of the crazy stories that they wrote was

521
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:44,920
Speaker 1: that the producers were the ones who came up with

522
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 1: the rules, and I was like, no, no, or care no.

523
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:51,680
Speaker 1: It was Pat and Sara Jessica with the vision. You

524
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 1: had the vision you know, of how to be a

525
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:57,880
Speaker 1: modern woman in New York. Yeah.

526
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 2: I think Pat had a very Pat had a window,

527
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:07,720
Speaker 2: like Pat had a window into a world that none

528
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 2: of us knew except for Mollie, who was always always

529
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,439
Speaker 2: want to remind everybody, Molly was there from day one. Yes,

530
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 2: they they had a they had their hands in a

531
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 2: world that I knew about. But I was not privy too.

532
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 2: I was not in it. But I definitely knew about it,

533
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,199
Speaker 2: like Pat Store on Eighth Street, like I had been

534
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,200
Speaker 2: in that store many, many times, many times. It was

535
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:36,880
Speaker 2: it was like what's that phrase, like you know something

536
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,119
Speaker 2: you it's like a milestone in your life as a

537
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,359
Speaker 2: young kid in New York growing up is like there's

538
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 2: you know, there's five shops you just have to visit.

539
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,359
Speaker 2: And then I'm trying to remember there was the one

540
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:54,440
Speaker 2: on the Upper west Side, Alice Underground, oh, Alex Underground,

541
00:26:55,080 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 2: Pat Store Field Sharavari at the time, and or Parishute.

542
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 2: We're a little bit passed few roucies. That was a

543
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 2: little bit earlier, but still I went there. Definitely certain

544
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,320
Speaker 2: things at fifty ninth and Lex Bloomingdale's, which was the

545
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 2: Calvin Klein on only place you to get Calvin Kline

546
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,920
Speaker 2: underwear we women at the time. And then a couple

547
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 2: thrift shops down on Broadway, Lower Broadway got it. But

548
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:27,080
Speaker 2: so Pat had this like she touched on you know,

549
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 2: there was a a kind of fringy world that she

550
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 2: was very much a part of that. She was in

551
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 2: many cases godmother too, and so I knew about that

552
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:48,639
Speaker 2: world and she drew heavily from that world. But but

553
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 2: but then there was overlap, like we shared living on

554
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:55,920
Speaker 2: the streets in a certain way, or being invited to

555
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,920
Speaker 2: or being observant of. So that's like the places in

556
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 2: which I could be a good partner to her and

557
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 2: or Molly or to any of the shoppers.

558
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:06,399
Speaker 1: Right, you know, right, right, right?

559
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:09,640
Speaker 2: But yeah, no one, None of the producers ever made

560
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:11,639
Speaker 2: their shows, although I will say that they came and

561
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 2: they had opinions about the board, and that was those

562
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:20,200
Speaker 2: Those were good conversations, you know, and everybody were like

563
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:25,159
Speaker 2: worthy combatants, like everybody, not me, meaning Pat and Molly

564
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 2: and Rebecca a little bit right at the time, yes,

565
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 2: and Darren and then then became Michael Patrick. And every

566
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 2: writer of a script was given the privilege or had

567
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:37,920
Speaker 2: the right to come to those wardrobe discussions and have

568
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 2: their own opinions. And I'm sure you heard. If you

569
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 2: came back, Pat would find you on the said she'd

570
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 2: be like, Jenny says that she doesn't understand this dress,

571
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 2: you know, And then you'd say, but I understand the dress,

572
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 2: and she'd say you shoul talk to Jenny, or Darren says,

573
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 2: And then I'd say, oh, actually I get that. I

574
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 2: you know what it's fine. I get it. I understand

575
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 2: why he A, B and C or why Jenny. And

576
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 2: then sometimes you'd say, I'll talk to Jenny. I'll explain

577
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 2: why I feel like this is right because what's gonna

578
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 2: happen there and there and there? I want to make

579
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 2: sure we have bubbah blah blah blah or I just

580
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 2: love it and I think it will be a treat

581
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 2: and fun because it's not expected because nobody runs around

582
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 2: like that, you know, like all sorts of reasons and

583
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,480
Speaker 2: you make your case and you win or you lose,

584
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 2: like so what that's collaborative, Like, that's what true collaboration

585
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 2: is is like not just one winner. No, there's always

586
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 2: somebody who's being heard and seen, like literally like see

587
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 2: the work, see it right, And that's that's good.

588
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 1: Definitely, that's good, good for all the time. And I

589
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 1: do feel in terms of our show then and now

590
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 1: you know, that's why it works is that everyone feels

591
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 1: passionately and I think that's key. And that doesn't mean

592
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 1: that it's always no no no, no roll in agreement.

593
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 1: You know, people are committed and they sometimes don't agree,

594
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 1: but this is what then the finished product is.

595
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 2: Better because of that. Hey, what does Michael Patrick always say,

596
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:02,720
Speaker 2: hate me and hate me and may hate me today

597
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 2: love me and may totally.

598
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 1: Delly, that's a good one. I forgot that one. But

599
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 1: in terms of the fashion, because now we're on that,

600
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 1: but I am going to go back to my thing.

601
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 1: I remember bread crumbs. Nope, okay, interesting too though, Gosh,

602
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 1: so many threat they will come back next next season,

603
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:30,719
Speaker 1: next season. No, we're not there yet. We're gonna talk

604
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 1: about fashion now because we're on it.

605
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 2: No, I said, I'll come back.

606
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 1: Oh great, yes, next season, come back anytime, baby doors open.

607
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 1: We had to wait to have you though. That was exciting.

608
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 2: Almost we almost got it done. I know we almost

609
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 2: got it done, but then we didn't. It was too

610
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 2: early though.

611
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 1: We needed to get I feel like I had to

612
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 1: get done with the first season to have a bunch

613
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 1: of thoughts for you to help us with, Okay, to

614
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 1: suss out so the fashion wise, obviously, there became a

615
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 1: time in our show where the fashion was almost like

616
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 1: the reason that we existed, or it seemed to everyone

617
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 1: else like the reason the existed, which I don't feel

618
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 1: like was the idea necessarily. You know, how do you

619
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 1: remember that happening or what was your thought on that happening.

620
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 2: Well, I remember, I remember that Fendy loaned us a bagette,

621
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 2: and up to that point nobody had been willing to

622
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 2: really give us anything. And I'm pretty sure our budget

623
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 2: for the first season was like ten thousand dollars, Like

624
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 2: we had no money. And it was the ingenuity of

625
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 2: Pat Molly and one and Century twenty one and Aina

626
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 2: right and just you know, intrepid digging around, pawing stuff,

627
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 2: going to some warehouses of vinted shops and things like that.

628
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 2: But we didn't have relationships yet. We had like no

629
00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 2: infrastructure in the world of proper ziine houses.

630
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 1: And but can I ask really quick, didn't you personally

631
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 1: already have some of these relationships?

632
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 2: So I did. I had a few that were substantial,

633
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 2: Like they weren't substantial, but they were like real, They

634
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 2: weren't too flimsy, like I could count on. I felt

635
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 2: like I could make some call or reach out or

636
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,960
Speaker 2: write a letter or whatever it was important.

637
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 1: Like the naked dress or so just that was from

638
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 1: your process.

639
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 2: So I had. I wish I could be certain of

640
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 2: the Manola Blonnic. So I when I was younger and

641
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 2: I was living at the time in southern California, and

642
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:48,720
Speaker 2: I had some friends whose family were involved in retail.

643
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 2: And I don't know if you remember Madeline Gallet and

644
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 2: Gallet on Sunset Plaza a little bit. So their daughter,

645
00:32:56,440 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 2: Rena Gallet, was a friend of a friend and her parents.

646
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 2: Her father owned Galley and her mother owned Madeline Galley,

647
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 2: and I think initially there was just a Galley, and

648
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:09,240
Speaker 2: then there was a divorce, and then there was a

649
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 2: Madeline Galley, and then there was a Galley, and Galley

650
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 2: was a tiny house of very high end European primarily designers,

651
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 2: like very high end like that. Other one became the

652
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:24,760
Speaker 2: one that's like everybody goes to and spends a million dollars.

653
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 2: That was initially on Doheany and Santa Monica that was scary,

654
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 2: like a dark case with like very expensive things came

655
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 2: and so they were a brighter version of that. And

656
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 2: let's see, Rina invited me. She said there was this

657
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 2: shoemaker coming to town and he was going to do

658
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 2: a trunk show at her mother's store, at Madeline Galleys store.

659
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:50,680
Speaker 2: And it was February in southern California, which I came

660
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:52,960
Speaker 2: to know because I'd been there in February once before

661
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 2: when I was Annie and had visited southern California in

662
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 2: February and it rained the entire time, and it was

663
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 2: puring rain in February. Like I came to understand, that's

664
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 2: what it should do in February, what it used to do,

665
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:10,440
Speaker 2: and yeah, it used to rain, and so I said, yeah,

666
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 2: I'll come to a trunk show of this designer. I

667
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 2: don't think, I'm almost positive she didn't say the designer's name.

668
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:20,320
Speaker 2: But it was fun and it was nice to be excited.

669
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:27,320
Speaker 2: And I had an American Express card and and I

670
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:29,759
Speaker 2: didn't have very much money in the bank and you

671
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:33,320
Speaker 2: have to pay your American Express card off immediately and

672
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 2: it's not good for credit, which is a bummer. But

673
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:42,360
Speaker 2: I went to Madeline gallet store and there was this

674
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:45,920
Speaker 2: designer named Manla Blank and he nobody was there. There

675
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,439
Speaker 2: was literally like three of us. It was puring rain

676
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 2: and cold, and you know, really unpleasant when it rains

677
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 2: like that and it's cold, and it's just rain is

678
00:34:56,680 --> 00:35:00,200
Speaker 2: so unusual anyway, Like it's such an amazing thing. Like

679
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 2: in London when it rains, it's one thing. Yes, son

680
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:03,759
Speaker 2: of California when it rains, it's one thing. In New

681
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:05,799
Speaker 2: York City when it rains, not to bother at all.

682
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:10,279
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter at all for you. Okay. Anyway, there

683
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:15,839
Speaker 2: was this sweet designer and I thought his shoes were beautiful,

684
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:22,120
Speaker 2: so simple. Nothing I bought and try to remember, I'm

685
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:24,839
Speaker 2: going to say, I bought like six pairs in an

686
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 2: American Express card that I had to pay off right away,

687
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:30,279
Speaker 2: and it was going to be a long time. And

688
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:33,919
Speaker 2: when I did finally get those shoes, when I lived

689
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:35,799
Speaker 2: there and made them, he went off and made them

690
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 2: that trunk show, proper trunk show, where you pick your silhouette,

691
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 2: you pick your leathers, you pick any kind of trim,

692
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 2: et cetera. And he went off and he made them.

693
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 2: And when I received those shoes later, I picked up

694
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 2: the sock liner and they were all signed by him.

695
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:52,279
Speaker 2: It was Renela Blank. So I came to love him,

696
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:54,800
Speaker 2: even though I basically really really couldn't afford it like

697
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:57,759
Speaker 2: I was. It wasn't like I couldn't afford it like

698
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 2: Carrie can't afford it, like I never made those kinds

699
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:04,399
Speaker 2: of choices, like I always paid rent. I always took

700
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,279
Speaker 2: care of myself and anybody else you needed taken care of, right,

701
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:11,320
Speaker 2: But so I had that relationship. I had a relationship

702
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 2: at Calvin Klein, which I don't can't figure out how

703
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 2: that started. And Donna Karen I had a little bit

704
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 2: of a relationship. But for the most part we were

705
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 2: that's right, that's right. But still people were like not

706
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:27,840
Speaker 2: tossing us stuff.

707
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 1: No, no, not at all.

708
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:31,600
Speaker 2: I kind of feel like that was perfectly good and

709
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 2: fine and maybe the best thing that could have happened

710
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:40,400
Speaker 2: to us, because had we had access to more familiar

711
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 2: pieces sooner, it might have eclipsed what we were. Also,

712
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:48,440
Speaker 2: I say we because we got the words and then

713
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 2: we tried to do our best with them. Absolutely, But really,

714
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 2: when I say we, what we were trying to do?

715
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 2: It really want to talk about the writers and what

716
00:36:56,400 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 2: they They're like, what was the momentum, like the trajectory,

717
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:03,560
Speaker 2: like what were they trying to do? Because they always

718
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:06,839
Speaker 2: had the whole season in mind and I never did.

719
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,279
Speaker 2: I was like, not, don't tell me, I don't want

720
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:11,319
Speaker 2: to know. I don't want to know. I don't want

721
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:16,319
Speaker 2: to know. Right, So, had we had everything we ever

722
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 2: wanted sooner, I'm afraid it would have gotten in the way,

723
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 2: because yes, people were curious, and they enjoyed and some

724
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 2: delighted and some didn't at all in the sartorial efforts

725
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 2: of the show and what it was saying and who

726
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 2: we were, because it was really an attempt to really

727
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:40,919
Speaker 2: be those people that we'd heard about, rehd about, knew about,

728
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:44,320
Speaker 2: didn't We didn't have exchanges with those people, but I

729
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:47,880
Speaker 2: certainly knew all about them, right, So we did our

730
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:51,680
Speaker 2: best to tell that story as accurately as we could.

731
00:37:54,440 --> 00:38:05,720
Speaker 2: But what people connected to initially were these women talking

732
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:11,240
Speaker 2: intimately about their lives, the intimate part of their lives,

733
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:17,799
Speaker 2: the challenges of being a working woman, sexual politics, love

734
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 2: and how it eludes you. And as Richard Plepler always says,

735
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 2: where is home?

736
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:24,000
Speaker 1: Oh?

737
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 2: And I think if we had had an air mes bag, yeah,

738
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 2: and everything else and all these coveted pieces and straight

739
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:40,520
Speaker 2: off the runway from Paris, I don't know that women

740
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 2: would have had such strong feelings, and men too, for

741
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 2: and against, and the against doesn't push them away, you know,

742
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 2: just because you're angry about a choice of character makes

743
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 2: doesn't mean you're gone in fact, And so I'm grateful

744
00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 2: that we were bare knuckling it, you know, and really

745
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 2: having to be like as industrious, like call in favors,

746
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:08,480
Speaker 2: bring clothes from home. How many times did you bring

747
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 2: clothes from home?

748
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 1: I think the whole first season. I'm wearing my r right.

749
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:13,000
Speaker 1: So they weren't good though, but.

750
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:17,719
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter, No, you're right, And so maybe it

751
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:23,720
Speaker 2: was a virtuous thing that we were scraping and good thoughts,

752
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:30,440
Speaker 2: you know, working on creativity, calling in favors. I mean,

753
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:34,279
Speaker 2: because Pat certainly had relationships and Molly they they had

754
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:39,279
Speaker 2: their they had their tentacles in the world. But it

755
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 2: wasn't until Fendy loans that bag at was that I.

756
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:44,839
Speaker 1: Think second season, because I don't think I saw one

757
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 1: first season.

758
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:47,719
Speaker 2: I think it was second place the whole.

759
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 1: First season, really, And there's sometimes when I'm looking at things,

760
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, are that is that? Sir Jessica's do you

761
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:56,000
Speaker 1: remember bringing in clothes other than the naked dress, which

762
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:57,880
Speaker 1: we know came from your own.

763
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:01,840
Speaker 2: I don't think I brought in what I ended up

764
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 2: bringing in clothes when we had holes and spaces that

765
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:06,880
Speaker 2: were like and I would be like, I might have

766
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:08,360
Speaker 2: a white shirt at home, I might well, you know

767
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 2: what I might have a bag. I might have a sweater,

768
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 2: I might have a cardigan. Little pieces, little pieces, because

769
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:18,880
Speaker 2: she dressed so differently than I did, you know, and.

770
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:22,400
Speaker 1: So another thing people don't necessarily understand.

771
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:26,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was very hard to be her from my closet.

772
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:27,800
Speaker 2: I also didn't have a lot of clothes.

773
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:40,360
Speaker 1: So you have the shoes, but you didn't have a

774
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 1: lot of clothes.

775
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:43,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I probably didn't have as many shoes as ever.

776
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:46,960
Speaker 1: Well, listen, if you had six pairs of Nola's from

777
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:47,720
Speaker 1: a trunk show.

778
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 2: You were aware of, but everyone else and I was

779
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:52,919
Speaker 2: gonna say about those shoes, they were all stolen. Yeah,

780
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:54,800
Speaker 2: it was a real sad story what happened.

781
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 1: So I.

782
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 2: I was traveling. It was very unusual year in that

783
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 2: I did. I'm trying to remember how this went. I

784
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:16,200
Speaker 2: did three movies back to back, and the last two

785
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:22,879
Speaker 2: were pocus Pocus and then Three Rivers or what came

786
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:23,800
Speaker 2: to be called.

787
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:26,799
Speaker 1: With Hugh Grant.

788
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 2: With Bruce Willis striking the Boats the Boats. A third

789
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 2: movie what was.

790
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:38,840
Speaker 1: The one with Hugh Grant had brown hair, and I.

791
00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:42,800
Speaker 2: Can't remember the name. Medical I'll tell you what it

792
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:45,319
Speaker 2: wasn't called for weddings at a funeral, right, No, yes,

793
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 2: I auditioned for that. I didn't get that, so I

794
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:53,040
Speaker 2: got the other one. But I had, you know how

795
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:55,840
Speaker 2: like when you travel when you're well. When I was

796
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 2: just traveling back to back to back, I'm shooting a

797
00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:00,120
Speaker 2: movie in LA And then I went to Pittsburgh for

798
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 2: six months and shot a movie, and I just like

799
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 2: took everything I loved and I had been gifted from

800
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:12,400
Speaker 2: a previous relationship of Chanell's suit. I also had a

801
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:17,560
Speaker 2: Chanelle suit, and yeah, I had like So I traveled

802
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 2: with like all the things that were my favorite, including

803
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:23,440
Speaker 2: Anthony Michaelhall and I had traded a sweatshirt and he

804
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 2: had given me like a Yankee sweatshirt that was so

805
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 2: old you could not believe it. It was the oldest

806
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:31,640
Speaker 2: Yankee sweatshirt I'd ever seen in my life, and I

807
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:37,360
Speaker 2: wore it everywhere. And so I decided that I was

808
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:41,719
Speaker 2: going to see I can't remember if I shot, doesn't matter.

809
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:44,600
Speaker 2: I decided that I was going to be really like

810
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 2: something and only packed to get back to New York City.

811
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 2: When I was done with all the movies. I was

812
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 2: going to FedEx my stuff home because by then I

813
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:57,040
Speaker 2: had accumulated so much stuff. And you know when you

814
00:42:57,120 --> 00:42:59,560
Speaker 2: leave a hotel room, there's like papers everywhere in scripts

815
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:01,960
Speaker 2: and you bought this, you have that you have like

816
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:05,480
Speaker 2: presents for friends and families and Christmas presents. And I

817
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:07,640
Speaker 2: was like, I'm going to do that thing that people

818
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:10,840
Speaker 2: do and I'm gonna FedEx everything home. And it was

819
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 2: all stolen. So everything in that was stolen. So sad.

820
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:18,359
Speaker 1: Oh, I know, so sad, but it was sad.

821
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 2: It was pretty I was stunned. I was like, so

822
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 2: did it ever make it to the drop off point?

823
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:29,320
Speaker 2: And you know, if you don't protect yourself now, I know,

824
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 2: in advance of shipping something, then you're only there's minimal

825
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:37,799
Speaker 2: coverage for it. And I could see. I was like, well,

826
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:40,640
Speaker 2: can let's watch this happen like it it did? It

827
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:43,640
Speaker 2: got to the place okay, So it went to its place,

828
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:47,960
Speaker 2: it's point of origin, and then it just disappeared. And

829
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:49,359
Speaker 2: I was like, you know what if I opened those

830
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:52,120
Speaker 2: boxes and I saw and I you know, the box

831
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:55,080
Speaker 2: that made it back? What the dog stuff? With all

832
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:58,239
Speaker 2: the dog stuff? I found a dog. I got a

833
00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:01,760
Speaker 2: dog there in lass Angelus. Yeah, dog at the Beverly

834
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 2: Center that had been in the window over and over

835
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 2: and over and over and over again. It was saddest thing.

836
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:11,799
Speaker 2: So I took it that dog was mynas and all

837
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:15,239
Speaker 2: her dishes, you know, and like papers, like papers that

838
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:17,239
Speaker 2: use scribble stuff at the hotel, like yeah, I all

839
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:18,439
Speaker 2: went and that's the box.

840
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:19,520
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.

841
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:22,200
Speaker 2: So anyway, I didn't always have as many shoes as

842
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:26,879
Speaker 2: but but you had a nice amount of shag your.

843
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:28,839
Speaker 1: Toe in the water, right, Whereas like for me, I'd

844
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:30,880
Speaker 1: never heard of Manila Blade. I didn't know how to

845
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:33,000
Speaker 1: say it. Like, I was like, oh my god, you know,

846
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 1: that was my whole life at the beginning of the show,

847
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:37,239
Speaker 1: was like how do I say this? How do I

848
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:38,920
Speaker 1: wear it? Can I walk in those shoes? You know

849
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:40,400
Speaker 1: all of that? Right?

850
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 2: God, now look at you walk in those shoes.

851
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:44,920
Speaker 1: I don't know, baby. I almost killed myself. And I

852
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 1: was so cates this last season. I was like, I've

853
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:49,879
Speaker 1: got to go down in the height. You you were

854
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:52,200
Speaker 1: higher shoes than almost all of us. Well that's got

855
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:54,839
Speaker 1: to stop. Okay, crazy just because I'm a crazy person,

856
00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 1: Like I know, I had something. I was like, why

857
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:00,840
Speaker 1: am I teeter tottering in those shoes? Because it was

858
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 1: the end of the season and the feet are swollen.

859
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:04,640
Speaker 1: I'm like, why am I still doing this to myself?

860
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:05,200
Speaker 2: My god?

861
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 1: And now everyone talks about you running in those shoes,

862
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:10,279
Speaker 1: and everyone asked me, how does she do it? How

863
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 1: does she do it? I'm like, the woman, actually stay

864
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:14,960
Speaker 1: it again. They call action, they call action.

865
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:16,120
Speaker 2: That's what you do.

866
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:19,120
Speaker 1: That's what of them. But honestly, you were the one

867
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:22,120
Speaker 1: who like, we could be on cobblestones, we could, there

868
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 1: could be obstacles in your and you're like, I can

869
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:26,480
Speaker 1: do it, and you could, you could, So all of

870
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 1: us were like, we've got to try to do what

871
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:30,160
Speaker 1: she does. We've got to That's my thoughts.

872
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:36,000
Speaker 2: I feel like I feel like everybody did it. I mean,

873
00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:37,960
Speaker 2: I think that's because we were just trying to pull

874
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 2: it off, right, and that's what I was doing. I

875
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:42,360
Speaker 2: mean I think that, you know, I think that it

876
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:47,279
Speaker 2: was pretty familiar for I felt it didn't feel totally

877
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 2: unfamiliar to be navigating like cobblestone and stuff and not

878
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 2: wearing hoes and all that. That. Like, I definitely.

879
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:58,520
Speaker 1: Felt that that was.

880
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:03,279
Speaker 2: I would almost call it normal, right, It was.

881
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:06,040
Speaker 1: Normal for you because you were very fashionable New York City.

882
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:07,680
Speaker 2: I never thought my lady that way.

883
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:11,080
Speaker 1: But but you were you were. I definitely was. I

884
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:13,719
Speaker 1: could understand fish nets and the double fish nets, and

885
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 1: I mean, like so many things. And remember the banana

886
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:19,960
Speaker 1: clip and you know, God forbid. And remember that time

887
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:21,880
Speaker 1: they tried to put me in the big velvet scrunchy.

888
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 2: Do you remember this? You know that big velvet scrunchies

889
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:25,359
Speaker 2: are so in now.

890
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:27,759
Speaker 1: I know, I know, I do know, but I mean

891
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:29,560
Speaker 1: this was as big as my face. It was as

892
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:32,000
Speaker 1: big as my face. And that guy who tried to

893
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:33,560
Speaker 1: cut my hair, I'm not going to say his name.

894
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:36,600
Speaker 1: He was just around a little bit and you were

895
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 1: just like no, you know, you were very I was like, oh,

896
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:42,120
Speaker 1: thank god, I can go to her. This was my

897
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:45,080
Speaker 1: my light bulb moment of like I can go to

898
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:47,600
Speaker 1: sarth Jusica when they because they would. You know, in

899
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:49,680
Speaker 1: the beginning, we were trying to figure things out right

900
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:53,719
Speaker 1: and for Charlotte, who was very much you know, not

901
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:56,359
Speaker 1: based on one particular person, which I did finally get

902
00:46:56,600 --> 00:47:00,480
Speaker 1: get can confer, which was helpful, and Michael Patrick was like,

903
00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:01,960
Speaker 1: I don't know how to write for her. And Darren.

904
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:04,680
Speaker 1: I think Darren really did have a vision for her

905
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 1: in the beginning in terms of like the lightness and

906
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:10,080
Speaker 1: the funniness, and you know, he had wanted me to

907
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:12,160
Speaker 1: be funny on Melrose and then he left, and then

908
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:13,480
Speaker 1: they didn't know. They were like, what do we do

909
00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:13,759
Speaker 1: with her?

910
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:14,319
Speaker 2: Right?

911
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:18,280
Speaker 1: Oh god, oh god, I'm gonna foo every week. It's different.

912
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:21,600
Speaker 1: So for for Charlotte, we got to create her together.

913
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:25,080
Speaker 1: I felt like, but because I didn't really know those women,

914
00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:27,919
Speaker 1: I didn't really know this echelon of people or really

915
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 1: that much about them other than what I might have

916
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:32,800
Speaker 1: read in Vogue, you know. And I remember just stalking

917
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:33,640
Speaker 1: the Upper east Side.

918
00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:35,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I heard you talking about that, and it's so

919
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:39,960
Speaker 2: interesting that I think that came in question from one

920
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:42,600
Speaker 2: of your listeners and I was like, oh, that is

921
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:46,160
Speaker 2: so interesting that I didn't know that you were just

922
00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:50,640
Speaker 2: parading up and down Matt flloween people. It was such

923
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:53,799
Speaker 2: a smart thing to do, because that is its own world.

924
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:57,719
Speaker 2: I don't know that world as much because I wasn't

925
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:00,239
Speaker 2: part of it. Cynthia didn't live in that part of

926
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:03,400
Speaker 2: the world, right, Those were definitely different like breeds of people.

927
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:07,240
Speaker 2: Definitely so smart of you. But you know, the funny

928
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 2: thing about how you have described, you know, how little

929
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:14,239
Speaker 2: they seem to know what to do with Charlotte, or

930
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:16,680
Speaker 2: how little like source material there was in a way,

931
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:23,359
Speaker 2: or uh, just you know people the admission that they

932
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:26,160
Speaker 2: weren't that Michael wasn't sure that he could write m

933
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:29,640
Speaker 2: it's just you know, I haven't seen the show, so

934
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:33,640
Speaker 2: you're gonna tell me, no, there is a fallow space

935
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:36,120
Speaker 2: like where there's not gonna be the way I've heard

936
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:39,200
Speaker 2: you talk about, You're like you can see or or

937
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:42,600
Speaker 2: you felt that they were like sorting it out in

938
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 2: real time. But the funny thing about that is that

939
00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:49,080
Speaker 2: I remember it was totally full like I never thought.

940
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 2: And my guess is that we've talked about this before

941
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:54,920
Speaker 2: that you've reminded me more than once, but I think

942
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:58,040
Speaker 2: I've never heard you talk about it like so completely.

943
00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:01,480
Speaker 2: And because listeners are asked sking you questions, you're filling in.

944
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:05,600
Speaker 2: You know, I had the broad strokes, but I never

945
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:11,000
Speaker 2: really thought that it was incomplete. And I think what

946
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:17,080
Speaker 2: I guess what you know, what happened in regards to

947
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:19,360
Speaker 2: your character, I would say with the ambitions, even with

948
00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:28,080
Speaker 2: Miranda and Samantha and they were fulfilled, is that I

949
00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:31,400
Speaker 2: feel like every year, there was like a sort of

950
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:34,960
Speaker 2: an agreement or Michael once my Michael took over, so

951
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:36,919
Speaker 2: it sort of the second season was like a whole

952
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:40,000
Speaker 2: new approach. Dude, not new approach, but it was now

953
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:44,720
Speaker 2: another year, and I feel like he said to himself

954
00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:49,920
Speaker 2: or to and to the writers, Okay, we are taking

955
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:53,040
Speaker 2: off a layer now this year, because you can't just

956
00:49:53,280 --> 00:50:00,520
Speaker 2: have archetypal people. You know, it's no good for the actor.

957
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:03,799
Speaker 2: It's not going to be fun for us, and it's

958
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:08,160
Speaker 2: not good for Carrie. It really like fulfilled like the

959
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:10,880
Speaker 2: idea what it needed to do the first season, Like

960
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:13,800
Speaker 2: we needed to understand that Miranda was going to react

961
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:16,600
Speaker 2: this way, and Charlotte was going to react this way,

962
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:19,239
Speaker 2: and Samantha was going to react this way, and that

963
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:22,240
Speaker 2: Carrie could then write about it. And it was always

964
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:24,960
Speaker 2: like the fulcrum for the column, and the column was

965
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:29,120
Speaker 2: the episode. And Michael was like, well, no, you can't,

966
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:33,760
Speaker 2: just you've got to Everyone has to go deeper, everyone

967
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:35,640
Speaker 2: has to go deeper all the time. So what I

968
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:41,640
Speaker 2: think is the first season, as you felt they were pondering,

969
00:50:41,719 --> 00:50:47,080
Speaker 2: well what do I do for Charlotte, I think they

970
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:53,200
Speaker 2: took care of it, really, really well, because it feels

971
00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:57,000
Speaker 2: to me like I never felt in a scene like

972
00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:02,840
Speaker 2: she doesn't have enough meaning, like you.

973
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:07,279
Speaker 1: Gave it, you fild it up.

974
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:11,040
Speaker 2: But that's the job, like is to like you kind

975
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:14,759
Speaker 2: of come to the set having to know more than

976
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:20,840
Speaker 2: is being said and like project some more stuff into

977
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 2: it that isn't there necessarily, but it's going to add up.

978
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:26,840
Speaker 1: It's like scar tissue definitely.

979
00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:34,200
Speaker 2: And so that then Michael and his extraordinary writers just

980
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:41,200
Speaker 2: kept pushing so that so that very I would say

981
00:51:41,719 --> 00:51:45,920
Speaker 2: if recollection serves it, like by mid second season, end

982
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:52,600
Speaker 2: of second season, you're having very big everyone's having big storylines,

983
00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:58,680
Speaker 2: like it's it's starting to get more independent, like everybody

984
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:03,120
Speaker 2: needs each other, but they they are their lifeline is

985
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:11,000
Speaker 2: not necessarily being reactionary and saying, but you've got to

986
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:14,040
Speaker 2: get married, You've got to believe in love. Like I'm

987
00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:17,560
Speaker 2: just summarizing like an archetype, because archetypes are super important,

988
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:22,680
Speaker 2: like they're not tiny. No, And I always wonder anyway

989
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:27,160
Speaker 2: if it's real, like if the whole thing is.

990
00:52:27,239 --> 00:52:29,560
Speaker 1: Real, No, don't go down here again.

991
00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:34,399
Speaker 2: You're not gonna say they were a dream blade down.

992
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:37,080
Speaker 2: I just don't know if it exists.

993
00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:40,760
Speaker 1: Thirty years.

994
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:46,200
Speaker 2: Well, it's just a column, you kill me. I love

995
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:49,600
Speaker 2: this so much because that's the case. Isn't that better?

996
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:52,600
Speaker 1: No, I don't live.

997
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:56,640
Speaker 2: What do you mean because if Carrie's a writer, oh

998
00:52:56,719 --> 00:53:03,080
Speaker 2: my god, this is just a story she's telling. Yes,

999
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:10,480
Speaker 2: it doesn't diminish what happens. It means as much. Okay,

1000
00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:14,759
Speaker 2: I'm just saying it gives you. You can move at

1001
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:19,800
Speaker 2: things differently. If we don't have to apply life rules.

1002
00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:22,319
Speaker 1: Do you feel like that's what we did?

1003
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:26,239
Speaker 2: Sometimes we have to?

1004
00:53:26,600 --> 00:53:27,960
Speaker 1: Is that what we're still doing? Was?

1005
00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:33,960
Speaker 2: It was not a It was an always a slightly

1006
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:38,080
Speaker 2: alternate universe. It was always true. In fact, said oh

1007
00:53:38,239 --> 00:53:41,520
Speaker 2: is this real? And you said absolutely not That New York.

1008
00:53:42,560 --> 00:53:49,080
Speaker 2: This New York as portrayed, as painted in the late

1009
00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:58,200
Speaker 2: nineties through the early aughts, was not entirely accurate. It

1010
00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:04,560
Speaker 2: was heightened. True, was better and worse, much prettier and much.

1011
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:05,880
Speaker 1: Uglier in certain ways.

1012
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:11,879
Speaker 2: It was richer and not addressing other things. So true,

1013
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:17,000
Speaker 2: it picked. But that's what Candae's columns were true. So

1014
00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:22,640
Speaker 2: it wasn't law and order and toe tags, right, thank god,

1015
00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:30,239
Speaker 2: it was purposefully heightened. Right, So when you're creating a

1016
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:34,880
Speaker 2: slightly alternate universe. You can ask yourself questions about the

1017
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:37,840
Speaker 2: provenance of a character.

1018
00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:45,040
Speaker 1: I love that we've actually gotten the whole story behind

1019
00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:47,040
Speaker 1: something that you said. I think when the first show

1020
00:54:47,160 --> 00:54:49,719
Speaker 1: was ending that I was like, why is she saying that?

1021
00:54:51,719 --> 00:54:56,600
Speaker 1: I feel like I've been real more touching. Maybe that's true.

1022
00:54:56,840 --> 00:55:06,600
Speaker 2: Think about somebody creating a world in which the friendships

1023
00:55:08,719 --> 00:55:14,759
Speaker 2: were the central nervous system and heartbeat and arteries of

1024
00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:20,320
Speaker 2: a life, like where somebody was saying, this is the

1025
00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:24,600
Speaker 2: most important thing is our friendships. This is the thing

1026
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:30,640
Speaker 2: that that is life sustaining.

1027
00:55:32,760 --> 00:55:34,560
Speaker 1: It's true, it's beautiful.

1028
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:38,239
Speaker 2: It's even better than having the good fortune to have it.

1029
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:42,120
Speaker 2: If a woman is saying, look, I'm going to choose

1030
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:46,480
Speaker 2: to tell this story about these women, it's still like, deeply,

1031
00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:52,640
Speaker 2: if it's real life, it's what great good fortune, what privilege?

1032
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:57,400
Speaker 2: But if it's an imagination, that's cool too.

1033
00:55:57,920 --> 00:55:59,880
Speaker 1: It is cool too. You give me many a chills

1034
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:03,120
Speaker 1: and got me cheered up, And you guys, we will

1035
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:06,080
Speaker 1: be back for another episode of Are You Charlotte