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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and Samantha and welcome to Steffe

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Speaker 1: never told you a production of iHeart Radio.

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Speaker 2: And today we have a very special episode. I know

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Speaker 2: when we have episodes with Bridget, and I feel like

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Speaker 2: this is a hint. We always talk about so many

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Speaker 2: things that we're always like, Okay, we have to come

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Speaker 2: back and we have to do an episode on it. Well,

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Speaker 2: today we are keeping our word and we have actually

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Speaker 2: brought back our fabulous friend. I feel like she is

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Speaker 2: an expert of all things like pop culture. I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: put that out there as part of your title. Bridget.

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Speaker 2: I was say that we are actually coming on a

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Speaker 2: subject that we were like, yes, we need to talk

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Speaker 2: about it. So first and foremost, welcome Bridget.

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Speaker 3: Thank you. I'm so excited to be back.

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Speaker 4: And this was like the last time I was chat

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Speaker 4: with you too, we were like, oh, we should talk

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Speaker 4: about this, and I'm happy that we are actually doing it.

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Speaker 4: I'm that it's actually here, it is, it's happening, we're

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Speaker 4: doing it.

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Speaker 2: It was too big. We could not do this and

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Speaker 2: what we are talking about, we're talking about the infamy

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Speaker 2: and overall impact of who the legend who. I mean,

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Speaker 2: we can't deny this of Hugh Hefner. So before we start,

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Speaker 2: we're going to put this at the very top of content. Warning,

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Speaker 2: trigger warning, so many warnings, And I don't even know

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Speaker 2: if I'm going to put all of the things I

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Speaker 2: should be tagged in here, so maybe we'll have to

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Speaker 2: come back. But just be aware. We're going to talk

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Speaker 2: about rape, We're talking about exploitation, death, suicide, murder, grooming,

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Speaker 2: drug use, trafficking, and even human trafficking. So I think

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of big conversations to be had just

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Speaker 2: you know, adult topics. So if you're listening to this

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Speaker 2: and you're like, oh, this is a great listen on

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Speaker 2: a ComUE while I'm going to pick up my kids

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Speaker 2: and you have your kids in the car, I would

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Speaker 2: probably pause.

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Speaker 3: I would definitely pause.

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Speaker 2: Because it's going to be explicit. I do think the

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Speaker 2: lessons that have been left in the aftermath of Hugh

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Speaker 2: Hefner and what he has done should be talked about

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Speaker 2: for generations of many marginalized people. I think it's a

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Speaker 2: big thing. And whether you want to call it a

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Speaker 2: warning label essentially, like you want to warn others about

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Speaker 2: practices like this, or whether you want to talk about

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Speaker 2: it as a historical context of how it really influenced us.

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Speaker 2: This is a conversation to be had. So Bridget and

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Speaker 2: I have two different perspectives, right, I think we just

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Speaker 2: talked about this earlier.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I agree that this is not the

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Speaker 4: episode to be in your car with the kids.

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Speaker 3: But what's funny is that.

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Speaker 4: So preparing for this episode was honestly almost like a

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Speaker 4: casthartic emotional personal experience. Because I don't know about y'all,

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Speaker 4: but I watched the show Girls next Door on e

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Speaker 4: about what's going on on the Playboy mansion when I

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Speaker 4: was in junior high high school, and so what's interesting

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Speaker 4: to me is that that show took great pains to

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Speaker 4: make the playboy lifestyle look kind of like wholesome and

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Speaker 4: squeaky clean and fun for the whole family.

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Speaker 3: So I don't think I was the.

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Speaker 4: Only junior high or high school girl watching that show

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Speaker 4: as a youth. But now the conversation really kind of

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Speaker 4: looking back and being like, well, what was going on

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Speaker 4: in that house? That conversation is very mature and adults

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Speaker 4: and has very mature themes, but it's so interesting how

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Speaker 4: it was framed us wholesome and squeaky clean then and

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Speaker 4: now the actual reality is like, oh no, this was

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Speaker 4: not wholesome nor it could not have been less squeaky clean.

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Speaker 4: And it's interesting going back and looking to see, like

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Speaker 4: how big of an impact that had on probably a

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Speaker 4: lot of.

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Speaker 2: Us, right, I agree with you. I will say, as

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Speaker 2: I was going to ask this question to both of y'all,

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Speaker 2: when did you learn about or have your first encounter

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Speaker 2: with Playboy magazine specifically or Playboy y'all? Did y'all ever

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Speaker 2: have one? Or what did you become aware of it?

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Speaker 1: I have never encountered a Playboy magazine. I think that

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Speaker 1: I was aware of it, surprised to know one through

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Speaker 1: like pop culture of Hugh Heffner's appeared in a bunch

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Speaker 1: of like The Simpsons and things like that. I think

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Speaker 1: that was my knowledge of it, was that I was

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Speaker 1: aware that it was a big thing.

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Speaker 5: There are like multiple.

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Speaker 1: Instances of movies where women dress up as like Playboy bunnies.

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Speaker 1: I think that was much more. My realm of knowing

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Speaker 1: what Playboy and all about Hugh Hefner was his cameos,

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Speaker 1: his multiple cameos he did in several things. And then

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Speaker 1: I mean it was it was just embedded in so

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Speaker 1: much of our pop culture for a while. So like

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Speaker 1: I knew about it, but I never actually seen a

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Speaker 1: Playboy magazine or anything like that. I just knew it

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Speaker 1: was a big deal, right right, Yeah, I think what

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Speaker 1: about you weregid?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Similarly to Annie, I can't think of a I

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Speaker 4: can't conjure up a memory of me like holding a

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Speaker 4: Playboy magazine or stumbling across a Playboy magazine. But also

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Speaker 4: I can't think of a time when I was not

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Speaker 4: aware of it in the culture. And I think it

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Speaker 4: is such an interesting point Annie about the cameos on

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Speaker 4: family friendly shows and things like that. How and the

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Speaker 4: reference is how that creates a culture where it's commonplace,

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Speaker 4: where I can't even remember a time where it wasn't

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Speaker 4: something that was on my radar. But I yet I

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Speaker 4: have no idea the first time that it actually was

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Speaker 4: on my radar. It was just sort of always there.

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Speaker 2: Right Interestingly, like for me, I guess maybe coming from

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Speaker 2: South Korea, like literally being born and raised, I wasn't

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Speaker 2: really aware of all of that. I came into the

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Speaker 2: US and I knew porn existed, obviously, that was a thing.

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Speaker 2: I knew that there were probably there were magazines, and

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to remember when the big lawsuit happened in which, uh,

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Speaker 2: they made all of those types of magazines be behind

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Speaker 2: like either dark or black plastic, because it was I

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Speaker 2: think in my lifetime. I'm pretty sure it was in

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Speaker 2: my lifetime.

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Speaker 4: I can confirm that it was because I have clear

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Speaker 4: memories of going into stores and being like, ooh, what's

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Speaker 4: that magazine right where they were.

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Speaker 2: So stuff like that was fairly new, like at the point,

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Speaker 2: like oh okay. But I also do remember I have

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Speaker 2: a very clear like, I don't think it was a

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Speaker 2: Playboy magazine. I can't remember because I've now started to

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Speaker 2: use some of like things that I've seen on TVs,

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Speaker 2: like is that my memory or is that? But I

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Speaker 2: do have a very clear memory of a friend of

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Speaker 2: mine when I was in i want to say, the

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Speaker 2: second or third grade, in which her dad, oh like

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Speaker 2: had a subscription to the pay per view channel of

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Speaker 2: Playboy magazine, like specifically their channel, and like turning it

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Speaker 2: on because you know, when you're at like each other's house,

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Speaker 2: you're doing naughty things. You're like, oh, well look at this,

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Speaker 2: look what my dad and I was like officially scared

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Speaker 2: of the man after the fact, actually, but that has

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Speaker 2: a whole different thing of trauma for me. But like

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Speaker 2: he like it was there, it existed in our movie.

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Speaker 2: Were like, wow, people watch this because I came from

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Speaker 2: a very like conservative Christian home, so none of that

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Speaker 2: existed in my world. So to go to someone else's house.

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Speaker 2: And by the way, he was a very revered doctor

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Speaker 2: in our town. I don't think I told anybody. I

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Speaker 2: was very good at keeping sick Cacus apparently. But anyway,

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Speaker 2: but that was kind of like my first interaction of

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Speaker 2: what this was. And I was like, oh, and this

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Speaker 2: is when they were and we're going to talk a

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Speaker 2: little more about all the things started doing porn, which

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Speaker 2: they always denied was a thing for them, Like that's

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Speaker 2: something that they were like, Oh, we're not poor magazine.

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Speaker 2: We are a a gentleman's magazine, which yes, we're going

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Speaker 2: to get into. But that's one of my first memories

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Speaker 2: of like, this is a big deal and what is

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Speaker 2: this and the level that they had, especially in a

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Speaker 2: man's world, and my view on the man the man

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Speaker 2: after seeing that, which is different conversation.

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh.

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Speaker 4: I mean, so it's so funny that your first like

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Speaker 4: your first interaction with Playboy was actual like pornography that

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Speaker 4: was like watched on a channel that is like a

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Speaker 4: pornographic channel, because I don't think I could tell you

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Speaker 4: that I understood that Playboy produced pornography until quite a

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Speaker 4: bit later, like.

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Speaker 3: In junior high.

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Speaker 4: I don't know if how it was in y'all's school,

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Speaker 4: but like you, people had the Playboy symbol on there,

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Speaker 4: like like girls walked around with the Playboy symbol on

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Speaker 4: their shirt. Right, it was it was a common thing

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Speaker 4: for the white girls to like tan and then like

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Speaker 4: I guess I don't know if they were like putting

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Speaker 4: like a cutout, it was a different to almost make

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Speaker 4: it look like a tattoo in their skin. And so

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Speaker 4: it was such a big part of the culture, but

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Speaker 4: yet removed from the pornography. And it's so funny that

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Speaker 4: for you it was like, oh it was my first

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Speaker 4: inner into action with it was like that's photography.

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Speaker 2: Leg and you're a dirty dude.

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Speaker 5: That's my memory.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, so this is, as we've already said, we

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Speaker 2: are talking about the legacy of Hugh Hefner. When I

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Speaker 2: say legacy, we're putting this in like and all of

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Speaker 2: it's like good and bad. We're not talking about uh again.

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Speaker 2: I think before, even in the last ten years, we

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Speaker 2: didn't even talk about him as a like a like

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Speaker 2: a bad dude essentially, like people really wanted to play

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Speaker 2: out his all these things that he did for society

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Speaker 2: and for our culture and not really talking about what

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Speaker 2: was happening in the depth of it and what he

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Speaker 2: was truly truly doing, like this is all so self serving.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god.

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Speaker 4: So I know we're going to get to it, and

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Speaker 4: I don't want to derail us, but plus like plus

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Speaker 4: plus plus a thousand to that, and the thing that

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Speaker 4: I want to like, my opinion on the topic is,

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Speaker 4: I think that is very much with intention. I think that,

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Speaker 4: you know, when I That's one of the reasons why

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Speaker 4: I'm obsessed with reading the memoirs and listening to podcasts

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Speaker 4: of the women who were part of this orbit is

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Speaker 4: I think from the free speech crusades and racial justice

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Speaker 4: crusades and talking about sexual liberation and feminism to the

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Speaker 4: public pr culture image of like, oh, I'm a nice

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Speaker 4: grandpa in a robe and this is all very squeaky

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Speaker 4: clean and like it's all wholesome, I think all of

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Speaker 4: that was manufactured with intention for us the public to

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Speaker 4: not think about Hugh Hefner and his legacy in a

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Speaker 4: way that is frankly realistic to what it actually looked like.

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Speaker 3: I think that, you know, and so I don't want

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Speaker 3: to make it seem like he didn't do.

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Speaker 4: These things for free speech and racial equality. But when

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Speaker 4: people are talking about like, oh, it's complicated legacy, I

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Speaker 4: even think that doesn't get at what we're actually talking about,

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Speaker 4: which is using the dark arts of pr to us

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Speaker 4: secure wrongdoing, some of which is criminal, right, you know,

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Speaker 4: right right, And.

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Speaker 2: I think we have to put this. I was saying

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Speaker 2: earlier that Bridget and I have kind of a two

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Speaker 2: different perspective because she has done the intellectual thing and

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Speaker 2: read all the things, while I went down the true

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Speaker 2: crowding level of watching the Secrets of Playboy or the

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Speaker 2: Secrets of the Mansion on A and E. None of

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Speaker 2: this is a sponsor because I was like, all right,

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Speaker 2: I'm not I'm not gonna read books, but I'll watch this.

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Speaker 2: But the amount of shock that I had watching this

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Speaker 2: and really like having to cleanse my soul after the

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Speaker 2: fact of like, oh, everything's the worst. So with all

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Speaker 2: of that, he has never been convicted of anything, So

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Speaker 2: we need to go ahead and put this here when

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Speaker 2: we were talking about this, we have to say that

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Speaker 2: all of this is alleged because nothing has been proved

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Speaker 2: in the court or any way like outside of these

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Speaker 2: people's experiences. So we are doing that. But you also

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Speaker 2: know here that we believe women in a story. So

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Speaker 2: all of that to say, we're trying to put like

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Speaker 2: trying to frame it in a of like, this is

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Speaker 2: what was told in these things, whether it's the memoir,

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Speaker 2: whether it's biographies from whatever, or whether it is this documentary. Yes,

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Speaker 2: at this point we have to say this alleged for

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Speaker 2: the documentary in itself. It was released after his death,

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Speaker 2: and there are a lot of people who were very upset,

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Speaker 2: and they're very upset at the women who are writing

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Speaker 2: writing these memoirs. Those moments out screaming at the TV

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Speaker 2: from some of the people defending Hugh Efner. So I

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Speaker 2: did have moments of me like you are full of

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Speaker 2: sh oh and I really don't.

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Speaker 3: Like that, my God, like can we get it?

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Speaker 4: So like that is a thing that I both from

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Speaker 4: the memoirs and from what I've watched at the doc Like,

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Speaker 4: how many people, many of whom were like on the

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Speaker 4: doll or involved in some way, are like, how dare

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Speaker 4: these women try to tarnish his legacy?

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Speaker 3: And I just want to be like you would say

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Speaker 3: that you were being paid, you were part of this,

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Speaker 3: Like you would say that right.

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Speaker 2: Part of this thing was like, Annie, you might not

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Speaker 2: want to watch. This is super gross.

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Speaker 1: I did get a text on Samantha that was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: maybe don't do this, so I read about it.

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Speaker 5: I did the in between yat document.

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Speaker 2: She researched in that way, she's like without having to

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Speaker 2: listen to everything that is happening according to because they

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Speaker 2: which the documentary itself, I have to go ahead and

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Speaker 2: put this in there. For the first few episodes, I

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Speaker 2: was like, oh, this is interesting because they did it

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Speaker 2: where they like had like playbacks or you know, reenactments.

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Speaker 2: But then like towards the end of them, they had

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Speaker 2: a journalist who was on a Playboy as well come

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Speaker 2: in and do an actual sit down interview with people.

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Speaker 2: So it was very like shocking, like the way they

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Speaker 2: decided to do it wasn't like an aftermath thing, like

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Speaker 2: she just sat and talked with different people about their

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Speaker 2: different experiences and it was an interesting dichotomy of how

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Speaker 2: they decided to do that documentary just on a like

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Speaker 2: overall review of the documentary.

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Speaker 4: So for people wondering I picked up on exactly what

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Speaker 4: you're talking about. There were like some editorial choices that

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Speaker 4: I was like, oh, interesting, okay, this is how we're

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Speaker 4: doing it, Like it is a little jarring.

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Speaker 3: I guess how I felt.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I was like, wait, okay, okay. But with that,

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Speaker 2: we're going to do a very brief talk about who

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Speaker 2: he was. Who Hugh Hefner was, and he was actually

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Speaker 2: born April ninth, nineteen twenty six in Chicago to a

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Speaker 2: very conservative family which he talked about quite a lot,

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Speaker 2: who had hopes of him being a missionary, which I

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Speaker 2: was like, huh, that's sounds about right. He served in

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Speaker 2: the military for a couple of years as a writer

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Speaker 2: of the military newspaper, so he's good at this. Went

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Speaker 2: to school at the University of Illinois at a Brno

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Speaker 2: champaign with a bachelor's in arts and in psychology and

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Speaker 2: creative writing and art. He worked as a copywriter for Esquire,

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Speaker 2: which I was like, huh, but eventually left to start

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Speaker 2: Playboy magazine, which he was going to originally name stag Party,

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Speaker 2: which when I at hear things like that, when I'm

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Speaker 2: like the original idea, I was like, yeah, that was

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Speaker 2: not gonna work.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, stag Party.

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Speaker 4: I'm glad you rebranded because stag Party is just not

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Speaker 4: a good name.

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Speaker 3: It's not a good brand.

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Speaker 2: That's such a different connotation too, like very like Playboy

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Speaker 2: is weird enough, but like stag Party is, like you're

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Speaker 2: excluding women altogether, So what's the point, right, But it's anyway,

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Speaker 2: And it was published in nineteen fifty three, and I

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Speaker 2: think we actually had a recent conversation about this, right

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Speaker 2: when we were talking about the fact that the first

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Speaker 2: cover was featured Marilyn Monroe, who never actually consented or

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Speaker 2: approved of this.

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Speaker 4: Yes, and she I would argue that, like she was

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Speaker 4: not appropriately compensated, like she had done a photo shoot

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Speaker 4: for a calendar company. The person who ran that calendar

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Speaker 4: company was like, Oh, nobody will ever see these photos.

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Speaker 3: It's fine, you know she So she.

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Speaker 4: Believed that Hugh Hefner then bought those images without her

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Speaker 4: consent and put them on the cover of Playboy, and

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Speaker 4: like that becave me big part of the Playboy empire.

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Speaker 4: So I would actually argue that the entire legacy is

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Speaker 4: kind of has its foundation in trickery, coercion, and economic

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Speaker 4: exploitation of women's sexuality. You know, I don't begrudge anybody

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Speaker 4: who wants to take off their clothes and be photographed

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Speaker 4: for money, but I would not argue that Marilyn Nrue

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Speaker 4: was not properly compensated or could not consent to the

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Speaker 4: way that image would go on to be used. This

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Speaker 4: came up in the episode that we did around the

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Speaker 4: Lena image was a playboy model whose image went on

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Speaker 4: to like really.

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Speaker 3: Shape the Internet.

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Speaker 4: And I think we see this again and again with

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Speaker 4: like the foundation being the exploitation of women, right yeah.

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Speaker 2: As in fact, in a biography dot com article, they

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Speaker 2: talk about how she was given fifty dollars too, and

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Speaker 2: she did this before all of her fame happened, because

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Speaker 2: she needed to do a car payment, supposedly, and she

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Speaker 2: was like, all right, as long as it's not gonna

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Speaker 2: show my face, it blurs my image out great. And

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Speaker 2: then this company bought it for nine hundred dollars, and

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Speaker 2: then Hefner came through and bought the rights with five

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Speaker 2: hundred dollars and then used it and like there's this

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Speaker 2: whole conversation about the fact that he had never met

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Speaker 2: Marilyn Monroe, as in fact he alleges, and no one

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Speaker 2: has verified that he had a phone conversation with her

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Speaker 2: about it. Again, we don't know that for sure. And

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Speaker 2: also he bought the plot next to her grave, yeah,

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Speaker 2: because he felt like he had some kind of I'm

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Speaker 2: going to say ownership of her. But more so his

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Speaker 2: refrain was like we have a connection.

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Speaker 3: Oh.

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Speaker 4: I read a quote of him talking about this and

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Speaker 4: he was like, this is a paraphrase, but something along

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Speaker 4: the lines of like I can't imagine anything sweeter than

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Speaker 4: an my asmitting my eternity resting on top of Marilyn Monroe.

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Speaker 2: Gross, I will say, I did not look into the fact.

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Speaker 2: Do we know did he actually do this?

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Speaker 5: Yes?

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Speaker 3: He is real. Yeah, that's been verifact.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: I mean he buried like he's actually married, yes, Oh,

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Speaker 2: or Marilyn Monroe, she's been so taken advantage of even

356
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Speaker 2: after death. Come on, leave Norma Jean alone anyway, Okay,

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Speaker 2: but just other like little fact because I'm not doing

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Speaker 2: a big long thing if Hefner was arrested in nineteen

359
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Speaker 2: sixty three for promoting obscene literature, but the case ended

360
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Speaker 2: with a hung jury, so nothing happened with that. Hefner

361
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Speaker 2: eventually gave up the seat as being the face of

362
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Speaker 2: Playboy to his son Cooper in twenty twelve, who, by

363
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Speaker 2: the way, is very loud about saying nothing of none

364
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Speaker 2: of this is true. All of these allegations aren't true

365
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Speaker 2: and unfounded. And I believe he has actually four children,

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Speaker 2: two by his first wife he married before Playboy. I

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Speaker 2: believe he married before he went into military. And Cooper

368
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Speaker 2: wasn't one of those, but his daughter, Christie Hefner was

369
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Speaker 2: one of Like believe she was some kind of big

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Speaker 2: ceo or key player in the nineteen nineties.

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Speaker 4: Yes, like she shows up in his sort of protecting

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Speaker 4: his legacy.

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Speaker 2: Right when they originally brought her in, And like many

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Speaker 2: companies today, they were trying to show face as like, see,

375
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Speaker 2: we're about women, we want to put women in leadership roles.

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Speaker 2: Here's my daughter. Look at her, who shut down many

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Speaker 2: things and mature women suffered allegedly.

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Speaker 3: Allegedly put that in here.

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Speaker 2: And then he died in twenty seventeen at the age

380
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Speaker 2: of ninety one. I mean, people celebrate him, and I

381
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Speaker 2: did find this article because all of the articles, if

382
00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:43,040
Speaker 2: you put Playboy now, it's all about these documentaries and memoirs,

383
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Speaker 2: which I'm kind of glad about. But this was an

384
00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:48,960
Speaker 2: interesting rite of Hefner in twenty eleven, while he was

385
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Speaker 2: still alive, in The New York Times by Charles McGrath,

386
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Speaker 2: titled How hef Got his Groove Back? Why They Got

387
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Speaker 2: to Still Things Anyway, it says Hefner is a little odd, certainly,

388
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Speaker 2: but not a sleeves bag. He has none of Bob

389
00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:10,040
Speaker 2: Guccione's oiliness or Larry Flint's leering vulgarity. His manner is

390
00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:12,920
Speaker 2: open and direct, and his language is as clean as

391
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Speaker 2: a Midwestern rotarians. By his own lights, having purged himself

392
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Speaker 2: of the shame and hypocrisy that is a part of

393
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Speaker 2: most Americans sexual baggage, he leaves a life that is

394
00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:27,560
Speaker 2: exceptionally honest and moral. It is also a life that

395
00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:31,439
Speaker 2: is exceptionally well documented. He has been written about so

396
00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:34,480
Speaker 2: often and for so long that in interviews now he

397
00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:38,080
Speaker 2: tends to recycle himself, saying the same things over and

398
00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:41,880
Speaker 2: over again, not in a bored wrote fashion, but as

399
00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:45,080
Speaker 2: if they had just occurred to him. He complains a

400
00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:50,040
Speaker 2: lot about America's puritanical, contradictory attitudes towards sex, and likes

401
00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:52,520
Speaker 2: to say that he is a quote, one eyed man

402
00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:55,960
Speaker 2: in a blind world. He also thinks that most men

403
00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:59,800
Speaker 2: would kill to be in his place. I feel like

404
00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:02,560
Speaker 2: the only true line to that is that last line.

405
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Speaker 3: Why don't even think that's true?

406
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Speaker 4: Because when you read, because when you read some of

407
00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:09,400
Speaker 4: these memoirs, it's like it actually doesn't sound that great

408
00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:12,160
Speaker 4: for anybody who was in that mansion. It's probably going

409
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:14,320
Speaker 4: the best for helf Right, but it doesn't even sound

410
00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:16,640
Speaker 4: like it's great for him in some in some regards,

411
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Speaker 4: and I will say, like, you're so spot on that

412
00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:21,600
Speaker 4: this is all lies. And having read what some of

413
00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:23,800
Speaker 4: the women have to say about what it was like

414
00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:27,199
Speaker 4: to be required to have sex with him nightly, he

415
00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:29,119
Speaker 4: is not someone who sounds like he is free of

416
00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:32,199
Speaker 4: sexual baggage at all. Is not someone who is like

417
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Speaker 4: sexually free and like a libertine.

418
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Speaker 3: If you read these accounts of what it.

419
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Speaker 4: Was like to have sex with him and be required

420
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Speaker 4: to do so regularly for your room and board, he

421
00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:44,560
Speaker 4: sounds like somebody who had quite a few sexual hang

422
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:45,840
Speaker 4: ups that were playing.

423
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Speaker 3: Out in the bedroom. So even that's not true.

424
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:53,320
Speaker 4: Even this, even this very carefully manufactured persona of how

425
00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:55,919
Speaker 4: he was as a lover or as a sexual person

426
00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:57,640
Speaker 4: is a house.

427
00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:03,760
Speaker 2: Of lies, right, article, they do say, because he talks

428
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:06,400
Speaker 2: this is in the era of the Girl's next Door

429
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:09,520
Speaker 2: and how it really did do a lot. Because I'm

430
00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:11,719
Speaker 2: with you, Ritchie, when you were talking about earlier, I

431
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:14,159
Speaker 2: watched this thinking that it was a cute show. It

432
00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:16,239
Speaker 2: was like, oh, this is like the real housewife of

433
00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:19,200
Speaker 2: so and so like in this timeframe and really set

434
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:23,080
Speaker 2: up these three playful girls who all like had different

435
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:26,040
Speaker 2: characters to play, and then him in the background as

436
00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:28,679
Speaker 2: just being that wise old man taking care of his

437
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:32,200
Speaker 2: girls literally, like that's what it seemed, and they all

438
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:36,320
Speaker 2: made sure that it felt like they were all immature

439
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:38,800
Speaker 2: and doing things and he was keeping them in line

440
00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:41,360
Speaker 2: or at least keeping them safe.

441
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:41,960
Speaker 5: Right.

442
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:43,840
Speaker 2: But he talks about the fact that what did these

443
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,600
Speaker 2: girls get out of it, and he says a mentor

444
00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:49,840
Speaker 2: at one point, a friend, and then just the key

445
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:53,359
Speaker 2: to success. So again, but that of course plays it

446
00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:54,120
Speaker 2: back onto the women.

447
00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:56,760
Speaker 3: First of all, a mentor.

448
00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:02,600
Speaker 4: That's I don't that's so deeply insulting when you when

449
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:04,959
Speaker 4: you read this the way that the women describe their

450
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,120
Speaker 4: own experiences, that's just not true.

451
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:11,000
Speaker 3: You know, A key keys to success, I guess it's

452
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:12,919
Speaker 3: when we were when I was like kind.

453
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:15,560
Speaker 4: Of preparing and thinking about this episode. That's something that

454
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:17,840
Speaker 4: I'm really grappling with and I don't have the answer

455
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:21,760
Speaker 4: there of Like a lot of these women, their association

456
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:26,400
Speaker 4: with Playboy is what gave them public attention and public

457
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:30,840
Speaker 4: profiles and platforms. So the question is, like, is that success?

458
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:33,840
Speaker 4: Is that a successful life? Is that a full life?

459
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,280
Speaker 4: If these women are happy, more power to them, that's great.

460
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:41,400
Speaker 4: But then you read these memoirs and many of them

461
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:43,639
Speaker 4: did not sound happy. Many of them did not seem

462
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:45,399
Speaker 4: to be happy with what was going on. And they

463
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,480
Speaker 4: thread that runs from all of the memoirs that I

464
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:50,399
Speaker 4: have read is like I didn't feel like I had

465
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:52,440
Speaker 4: a lot of other options. I needed a place to live,

466
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:55,159
Speaker 4: I needed money, whatever, whatever, And like I think it

467
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:59,200
Speaker 4: comes down to, like, like what is success as defined

468
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:01,359
Speaker 4: by our culture and defined by each and every one

469
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:03,240
Speaker 4: of us. Like I don't know where I sort of

470
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:06,119
Speaker 4: stand about like whether or not this was something that

471
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:07,160
Speaker 4: was actually good.

472
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:07,560
Speaker 3: For these women.

473
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:08,160
Speaker 2: Right.

474
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:12,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that's something I grapple with a

475
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:19,240
Speaker 1: lot too. Is you know, for one, that there's no

476
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:19,960
Speaker 1: he was.

477
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,640
Speaker 5: Not a mentor. I just refuse to believe that.

478
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:27,920
Speaker 1: But it's like I've been I've seen this happen where

479
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:31,520
Speaker 1: it's a man who will be like I can get you,

480
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:33,320
Speaker 1: I can get you to the top, kid like making

481
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 1: you all these promises like I can you will find

482
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:41,000
Speaker 1: success with me, and being feeling like, Okay, this is

483
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:43,919
Speaker 1: what I have to do to get success, and just

484
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:48,760
Speaker 1: the systemic issues with that. But I also think, like

485
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:51,720
Speaker 1: we've been talking about this a lot. We just did

486
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:54,879
Speaker 1: an episode about Bumble and what their ad campaign that was.

487
00:24:54,840 --> 00:25:01,000
Speaker 6: A menu, and it's I feel there is this thing

488
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 6: that is more nuanced than people are trying to make

489
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 6: it where it's like, oh, you're sexually empowered, you want

490
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,560
Speaker 6: to do this, right, but it's still men like manipulating

491
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:14,960
Speaker 6: women into doing this thing.

492
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:17,679
Speaker 1: And if that's what you want to do, more power

493
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:20,240
Speaker 1: to you. But I feel like it's so often presented

494
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 1: as oh, I'm going to empower you so that men

495
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 1: can look at you.

496
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:31,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, there's a lot of cautions of ethics.

497
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, what I was looking into all of the different

498
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 4: things that people say is part of Hugh Hefner's legacy

499
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:41,879
Speaker 4: around things like equality and racial equality. Like it's like, oh,

500
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:46,160
Speaker 4: he had the first trans playmate in his magazine. He

501
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 4: had the first black playmate, and then a black woman

502
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:52,719
Speaker 4: who was photographed on a cover of Playboy with an afro,

503
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 4: And I understand why people are talking about this in

504
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:01,640
Speaker 4: the frame of a quality. Like when Hefner died, Caroline

505
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 4: Tulakasi said that, you know, she was the first transgender

506
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,920
Speaker 4: woman in the magazine, and she tweeted Rip qu Heffnrd,

507
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:09,600
Speaker 4: thank you for allowing me to share my story and

508
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 4: for your support and platform that helped my campaign her

509
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 4: trans rights and visibility. So I get that, but it

510
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:18,200
Speaker 4: makes me a bit sad that the equality that we're

511
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:22,919
Speaker 4: talking about is having underrepresented people being served up to

512
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:27,159
Speaker 4: be sexually consumed in this way, and that part and

513
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:31,199
Speaker 4: parcel of that with Playboy has always been giving the

514
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:35,479
Speaker 4: women less economically right, Like even that first story that

515
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 4: you that you shared sam about Marilyn Monroe, the person

516
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 4: who got the least amount of money in that exchange

517
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:43,920
Speaker 4: was Marilyn Monroe. Everybody else was getting more money. For

518
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 4: her body, and so yeah, I just it is it

519
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 4: is complicated in that is that really equality?

520
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:50,679
Speaker 3: You know?

521
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:54,560
Speaker 2: Right? And in the in the Marilyn Monroe in that

522
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 2: article at biography dot com, she talks about the fight

523
00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 2: that they've made millions of dollars off of me and

524
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:01,880
Speaker 2: I've not seen like she literally talks about the fact

525
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 2: that she knows how much money that they have made

526
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:06,639
Speaker 2: off of this, and how he really did advertise me

527
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 2: like first time news that with people have talked about

528
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:11,720
Speaker 2: never seen like he made sure to blow this up

529
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,199
Speaker 2: in a way that it was going to sell and

530
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 2: launch him into being a millionaire. But I find it

531
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 2: interesting that when we come back because at the end,

532
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 2: I do want to have this conversation because playboy Hugh

533
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 2: Hefner touts this whole ideal of allowing women to be

534
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:32,440
Speaker 2: a part of these conversations and being whatever they want

535
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 2: to be through this access, and it's all about sexual

536
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 2: liberation and for women as well. We want to give

537
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 2: you the freedom to choose and enjoy sex and say

538
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,119
Speaker 2: that you like sex. But when it comes down to

539
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 2: that being the fact that women have to pay in

540
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 2: order to be able to say that, but they're not

541
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:51,159
Speaker 2: able to say that because they can't say no, Like,

542
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 2: there's so many conversations to that, And at what point

543
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 2: in what platform is there a possibility? Is there a

544
00:27:56,359 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 2: true way that women can be sexually liberate where they

545
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:03,879
Speaker 2: have all of the power to have the consent that

546
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 2: they deserve and to be able to profit off it

547
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:09,679
Speaker 2: if they want to, Like, do they have equality in

548
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 2: a field that has been abused and used to abuse

549
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 2: women for so long? Like, there's so much like depth

550
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:19,920
Speaker 2: to that because they're like, we wanted to be and

551
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:23,440
Speaker 2: Playboy made money off of that idea, right, So where

552
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:23,920
Speaker 2: do we get that?

553
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 4: And I would argue, like that is a great question

554
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 4: and a great conversation to have, But I can't look

555
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 4: at the legacy of Playboy and say that they were

556
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,359
Speaker 4: actually offering women that in a meaningful way, right, Like,

557
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 4: just let's look at some of the things that we

558
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 4: know about what went on in the mansion, you know, right,

559
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 4: selling pictures of women that were taken without their consent.

560
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 4: In all the memoirs, the women talk about how they

561
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 4: did not know, but there was cameras in Hugheffner's bedroom,

562
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 4: and so in these required nightly orgies, they didn't know

563
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 4: that they were being filmed. And if your whole thing,

564
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 4: if your whole platform is around sexual freedom, sexual liberation

565
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,959
Speaker 4: that has to that can't happen if there's also coercion

566
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 4: and a lack of informed consent, those things cannot co exist.

567
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 4: And so if you are not getting consent from women,

568
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 4: and women are being coerced into things that they don't

569
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 4: know that they're doing, and I'm certainly they are consenting

570
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 4: to you, there is no sexual liberation.

571
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 3: You're selling a lie. And so I'm not going to

572
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 3: say that there is not a model where.

573
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 4: Women can truly have like meaningful sexual liberation that also

574
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 4: does not involve like coercion or exploitation or something. I'm

575
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 4: not gonna say that, but I can certainly look at

576
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 4: this model and say this wasn't in it.

577
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 2: You know, right, absolutely absolutely. I'm fact we're going to

578
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 2: talk about the fact that, yes, overall, Hugh Hefner's legacy

579
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 2: is a rollercoaster and doing a steady decline, and I

580
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 2: think we're all here for that. From an NPR article

581
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 2: by Scott Simon, he writes, Hugh Hefner saw the sexual

582
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 2: revolution as a companion to the movements of civil rights

583
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 2: and free speech. But this leading figure of the sexual

584
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 2: revolution couldn't see the feminist revolution. Heff went from being

585
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 2: acclaimed an icon of cool to being denounced and oppressive.

586
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 2: Pick And he also goes on to say that Hefner's

587
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 2: reputation for many of the women in Chicago was actually

588
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 2: pretty good for some. He says, when I was growing

589
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,479
Speaker 2: up in Chicago, the formidable women who were my mother's

590
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 2: friends considered Playboy a good place to work for a

591
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 2: single woman. Women at the Playboy Club were well paid,

592
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 2: got chauffeured home in cabs, and customers stars, politicians, even

593
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 2: it was rumored spoiled by Middle Eastern princes were thrown

594
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 2: out if they weren't gentlemen. My Auntie Abba trained Playboy bunnies.

595
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 2: When Gloria Steinem and others said the bunny costume which

596
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 2: wrenched a woman's bodice upwards so her chest resembled ice

597
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 2: cream scoops or exhibit a in the way Hugh Hefner

598
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 2: made women into idealized sex objects, my Auntie Aba sniffed

599
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 2: and said, well, they wear some pretty ridiculous costumes at

600
00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 2: the Metropolitan Opera two, So it was interesting. And he

601
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 2: is not in favor, Like he's not talking highly, he's

602
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 2: just talking about what he had experienced as a child

603
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,400
Speaker 2: in Chicago who had connections. And you know what I

604
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 2: will say from the documentary, it starts off that way

605
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 2: in this conversation. And of course when we talk about

606
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 2: the Playboy clubs, the legacy of the clubs and the magazines,

607
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 2: though they were related, were still two different money makers, right,

608
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 2: Because I think it's interesting to note that, as Hugh

609
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 2: Hefner was like, I'm about equal equality, I am about

610
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 2: all these things, the little ratio of marginalized people in

611
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 2: the magazine is very low, like real real, real, real,

612
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 2: real low, right, real.

613
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 4: Low, And yet he's like a celebration, like, yes, it's

614
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 4: super low. It's super white, super conventional. And it's like, oh, well,

615
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 4: he did have a black woman with an afro on

616
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 4: the cover right once or twice, Like it's like, how is.

617
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 3: It this low?

618
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 4: And you're also being like heralded as a paragon of

619
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:00,040
Speaker 4: racial equality.

620
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 2: Right, And I just like the level of like how

621
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 2: many black women were featured is like single digits, and

622
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 2: one of them happened to be LaToya Jackson, who was

623
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 2: there as a celebrity essentially, and the way he showed.

624
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 2: I think some of his diversity is hiring them at clubs,

625
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 2: is what it sounds like. So they weren't necessarily featured

626
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 2: on the magazine. You weren't good enough for that, but

627
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 2: you're good enough to make me money this way.

628
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 4: Oh yes, that is that is a tension that still

629
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 4: existed and still ran as an undercurrent through a lot

630
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 4: of them, the memoirs that I've read of like parts

631
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 4: of the pape, the Playboy Enterprise, or these coveted things

632
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 4: like getting a cover, being a playmate, and so it's like, oh,

633
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 4: I'm good enough to like be at your trashy parties

634
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 4: and like make you money in some ways, but in

635
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 4: other ways I'm not good enough.

636
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 3: Like like that dynamic is very.

637
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 4: Much an undercurrent of the Playboy, the Playboy that we

638
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 4: were watching, like in the Girls next Door era too.

639
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 2: And you know, we're going to kind of talk about

640
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 2: a little bit of what he his legacies are and

641
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 2: when these contain and one of the big things that

642
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,120
Speaker 2: people always spout is about free speech.

643
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 4: Oh yes, So this the free speech thing definitely is

644
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 4: a kind of a part of his legacy. And as

645
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 4: you mentioned him, like part of it is because as

646
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 4: a person who makes and distributes pornography, he had to

647
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:20,719
Speaker 4: defend his own work in his own business from censorship

648
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 4: and like government censorship and all of that. Him and

649
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 4: his ex wife established the Hugh M. Hefner First Amendment Award,

650
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 4: which is still given out today. It creates it which

651
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 4: I think I find like very funny. It started in

652
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:36,520
Speaker 4: nineteen seventy nine to honor individuals who have made significant

653
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 4: contributions in the vital effort to protect and enhance First

654
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:43,600
Speaker 4: Amendment rights for Americans. According to the BBC, in nineteen

655
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 4: fifty four, he won a legal battle against the United

656
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 4: States Postal Service when the Postmaster General, Arthur Summerfield, refused

657
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 4: to deliver copies of Playboy on the grounds that it

658
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 4: was obscene. Hefteror told the court, we don't think Postmaster

659
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 4: Summerfield has any business editing magazines. We think you should

660
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 4: stick to delivering the mail. And Playboy actually won that case.

661
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 2: Right and didn't he he had the again, we talked

662
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 2: about the fact that the mess act which happened, and

663
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 2: one of the big whistle blowers is one of the

664
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,799
Speaker 2: people in the documentary. Uh, she was a higher up.

665
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:18,239
Speaker 2: She was an original Playboy Bunny. She was on the centerfold.

666
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:22,920
Speaker 2: Uh she was the first Latina uh Playboy Bunny to

667
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 2: be featured. And then she just like went up the

668
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 2: rinks in the corporation really thinking she was going to

669
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:30,799
Speaker 2: be doing something, Like she was so excited that she

670
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:32,879
Speaker 2: was a part of something that she can really work

671
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:36,880
Speaker 2: for women's rights. But at one point, she finally had

672
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 2: enough after so much abuse. I believe with the murder

673
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:43,239
Speaker 2: of one of the Playboy uh playmates of the year,

674
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:45,880
Speaker 2: I believe, Uh, she kind of just had enough and

675
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 2: she couldn't figure out how to help the bunnies, as

676
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 2: you said, or the models, and so she came out

677
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 2: as a whistle blower, testifying in front of the court

678
00:34:55,880 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 2: about the acts that were happening under the Playboy executives

679
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 2: and that Hugh Hefner was very aware. And this included

680
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 2: things that didn't necessarily happen in the mansion but happened

681
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:08,880
Speaker 2: under their watch, whether it was at these clubs or

682
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,280
Speaker 2: whether it was at these like they had like lodges,

683
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 2: which I was like, oh, I didn't know that existed,

684
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 2: or they had like incidents where they were sending models

685
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 2: out and it wasn't actually for a modeling job. It's

686
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:22,120
Speaker 2: literally trafficking them out totally.

687
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:33,799
Speaker 4: So this is something that I want to like be

688
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:36,759
Speaker 4: super clear about, which is that people really talk a

689
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 4: lot about Hugh Hefner as this champion of free speech,

690
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 4: but the women in his orbit tell a very different

691
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:47,879
Speaker 4: tale about the actual role of free speech for women

692
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 4: in his empire, right, Like, it kind of almost reminds

693
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 4: me of Elon Musk, who is like, oh, free speech,

694
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 4: free speech, unless you're somebody who works for me, and

695
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 4: you're the speech that you are talking about is starting

696
00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:01,759
Speaker 4: a union. Right So, Sondra Theodore, former Hefner girlfriend who

697
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 4: was accused Hefner of grooming young women and keeping tapes

698
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 4: on them to silence them, said, there is no freedom

699
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:09,920
Speaker 4: of speech in the world of Playboy. Playmates have been

700
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,800
Speaker 4: kept quiet since the beginning unless you're singing his or

701
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 4: Playboy's praises. Of course, no way the celebration can go

702
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:18,879
Speaker 4: interrupt it. It's a farce. She added. This was after

703
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:21,399
Speaker 4: Hugh Hefner died and everybody was rushing to be like, oh, well,

704
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:24,359
Speaker 4: he was a real champion of free speech, and yeah,

705
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 4: I just don't.

706
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:27,480
Speaker 3: I don't believe that you.

707
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:30,800
Speaker 4: Should be lifting up somebody as a champion of free speech,

708
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 4: even if they do have awards, even if they did

709
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:38,040
Speaker 4: have to defend themselves, if they are maintaining and benefiting

710
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 4: and profiting from an empire that relies on silencing women's

711
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:46,239
Speaker 4: speech to do that, those two things are completely and

712
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:48,400
Speaker 4: deeply incompatible to me, right.

713
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:52,880
Speaker 2: Right, there's the majority of what Playboy was representing was

714
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 2: incompatible to just human rights. Let's just be very clear,

715
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:03,240
Speaker 2: like the overall freedoms and like protections of individuals, point blank.

716
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:06,440
Speaker 2: So yeah, what I'm talking about is actually the mis Report,

717
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:09,799
Speaker 2: which was published in nineteen eighty six. It was under

718
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:12,759
Speaker 2: the Ronald Reagan, which I hate him, I don't love him,

719
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 2: but like the things did happen, but it was done

720
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 2: under his administration, and they did. They went after Playboy

721
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:24,440
Speaker 2: in which I think like twenty three several like convenience

722
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:30,279
Speaker 2: store chains stopped publishing and Playboy countersuit saying that they

723
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:32,960
Speaker 2: had lost millions of dollars in revenue. And also, you're

724
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 2: taking away the freedom of speech from retailers as well

725
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 2: as individuals who want to purchase these magazines, so so

726
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,080
Speaker 2: many things, and this kind of led way to what

727
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 2: I was talking about with the covering up of the magazines,

728
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 2: all you could see this is a title and you

729
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 2: can't look at it. And I think eventually we'll eventually

730
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:56,240
Speaker 2: lead to like the ratings, the TVUMA type of things

731
00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:59,479
Speaker 2: as well. But this is like something that he went after.

732
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:01,919
Speaker 2: And because he did go after this, people were like, yeah,

733
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:05,240
Speaker 2: he's definitely championing for our eyes, not a capitalist wanting

734
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:07,880
Speaker 2: all his money back, because again, it did hurt him

735
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 2: pretty badly. But during that time is when we saw

736
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:17,759
Speaker 2: one insider come out and talk about why Playboy is

737
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:20,279
Speaker 2: not what you think. It's not about this, and these

738
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:23,880
Speaker 2: are things about like harassment and doing under duress, talking

739
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 2: about because we're talking about this later, like women being drugged,

740
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 2: women being pressured, because we know that several of the

741
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 2: models talked about the fact that they came in with

742
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 2: the strong understanding that all they would do is show

743
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:41,440
Speaker 2: their movies there, show some breasts and that's fine, and

744
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 2: then eventually being talked into or co warced or told

745
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 2: that they would not get this job unless they were

746
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 2: fully fully naked, and so many things. And then I know,

747
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:53,960
Speaker 2: like I fleeve with most of them, they were all

748
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 2: filmed and they were told and promised that they none

749
00:38:57,520 --> 00:38:59,439
Speaker 2: of this would be published. It was just for them,

750
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 2: It was just for our works, and everything is quote

751
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:03,839
Speaker 2: unquote going on the cutting room floor. We just want

752
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 2: to do a behind the scenes type of very classy,

753
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:09,400
Speaker 2: which I love it that that's what they talk too.

754
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:12,360
Speaker 2: Is like it's very classy. Is a girl next door

755
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:15,319
Speaker 2: type of shoes, so don't worry about it.

756
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:19,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it goes back to that manufactured, pr

757
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 4: crafted image of this being somehow wholesome as opposed to

758
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 4: what it actually is, which is the exploitation of women

759
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:34,280
Speaker 4: both sexually and economically that is being maintained by surveillance, coercion, lies,

760
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 4: and drugs. I almost feel like if that was the

761
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:42,400
Speaker 4: kind of enterprise that they were running and profiting from.

762
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:43,440
Speaker 3: Like okay, well that's what it is.

763
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 4: But I guess where I sort of take issue more

764
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:49,520
Speaker 4: broadly is like why did we all have to believe

765
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 4: that it was really wholesome and like good for the women?

766
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:52,040
Speaker 2: Right?

767
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 3: Why can't it just be what it is?

768
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:56,279
Speaker 4: The bit about where we all come into it of

769
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:58,040
Speaker 4: like oh, we should all be like seeing the behind

770
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:00,399
Speaker 4: the scenes and like thinking it's really like a good

771
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 4: for the girls, that's what I kind of take issue

772
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 4: with or, you know, seeing the way that these women

773
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 4: who spoke up about what they saw, like you were

774
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 4: just talking about sam like seeing them be silenced and

775
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:15,800
Speaker 4: then also having to praise you Hefner as a paragona

776
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:18,879
Speaker 4: free speech, right, Right, That's what I can abide, right.

777
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 2: Yeah. And as you were saying, people who were wanted

778
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:24,839
Speaker 2: to tell their story were being told you can't tell

779
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 2: this story and being silenced by you Hefner and his team.

780
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:28,600
Speaker 3: Yeah.

781
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:31,839
Speaker 4: Another voice that was in that documentary Jennifer Saganor, who

782
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 4: wrote this tell all book about her childhood, which she

783
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:37,800
Speaker 4: largely spent at the Playboy Mansion in the nineties and

784
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:41,239
Speaker 4: two thousands. Her dad was Hefner's live in doctor. Like

785
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:43,320
Speaker 4: kind of a doctor. It sounds like kind of a doctor,

786
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:45,880
Speaker 4: feel good kind of sitch. But she wrote a memoir

787
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 4: about the things that she had seen and about that experience.

788
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:51,759
Speaker 4: She wrote, quote, I was silent when my memoir Playground,

789
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 4: came out. I believe there is truth to the hypocrisy

790
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:57,000
Speaker 4: that should be noted by all the irony of being

791
00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:00,960
Speaker 4: silenced by the King of the First Amendment, the true

792
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:04,320
Speaker 4: nature of our culture, and abuse of power in our society,

793
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 4: and her book was all about like really gross things

794
00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 4: like grooming of underage girls, girls being given drugs sometimes

795
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:16,480
Speaker 4: without their knowledge. That heard memoir Allegen's behavior that is criminal,

796
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 4: and she was silenced by Hugh Hefner when she tried

797
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 4: to speak out about this in her book.

798
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:29,440
Speaker 2: Right, her story alone in the documentary was horrifying. I

799
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 2: was very confused from John like she was there. She's

800
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:35,839
Speaker 2: moved into the Playboy mage and had her own room

801
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 2: at the age of seven, like her dad brought her there.

802
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:42,720
Speaker 2: She talked about how she would sit in Hugh Hefner's

803
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:45,799
Speaker 2: lap during their game days and she really saw him

804
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:48,719
Speaker 2: as a father figure, really thought he was so amazing.

805
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 2: And then at the age of fifteen, she realized she

806
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,200
Speaker 2: was kind of infatuated with one of the playmates who

807
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:58,399
Speaker 2: happened to be Hugh Hefner's girlfriend at the time, and

808
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:01,279
Speaker 2: they started having a relationship. And by the way, this

809
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 2: woman was an adult, I believe she was twenty twenty one. Yes,

810
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:07,520
Speaker 2: she was also groomed into that, but the a day

811
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:11,359
Speaker 2: started a sexual relationship, and in that she alleges that

812
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 2: Hugh Hefner tried to get the girlfriend brought her into

813
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:21,279
Speaker 2: his bedroom and then they started playing about I apologize

814
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:25,560
Speaker 2: and the girl. The girlfriend started crying and ran out,

815
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:28,319
Speaker 2: and he allegedly said to her, well, I guess this

816
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:30,720
Speaker 2: is not happening now. I can't do this while she's crying.

817
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 2: So he was ready to have a sexual relationship. And

818
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 2: this was when she was at the age of seventeen

819
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:39,600
Speaker 2: with someone she considered him being a father figure and

820
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:41,280
Speaker 2: his best friend's daughter.

821
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:45,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, there is a lot of blurring, like you, like

822
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 4: you were saying earlier that like, oh, what do these

823
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:50,280
Speaker 4: girls get out of it, Oh, well, a mentor figure,

824
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:52,799
Speaker 4: And it's like, well, if you're having sex with your like,

825
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:56,480
Speaker 4: there's a lot of blurring of roles here where if

826
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:58,799
Speaker 4: you can you really have a mentor and be having

827
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:01,120
Speaker 4: sex with him, should you be having sex with somebody

828
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:03,799
Speaker 4: that you said that you considered a father figure. And

829
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:06,360
Speaker 4: also if you're like not of the age of consent,

830
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:09,040
Speaker 4: you obviously shouldn't. Like that's you know, a different thing.

831
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:11,279
Speaker 4: But yeah, a lot of what was it sounds like

832
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 4: a lot of what was going on in the house

833
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:17,480
Speaker 4: was this kind of real blurring of lines and boundaries

834
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:21,839
Speaker 4: and the line of consent and legality, and it kind

835
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:24,840
Speaker 4: of being sold back to us as like not this

836
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 4: big of a deal, like a fun party and environment

837
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:28,960
Speaker 4: as opposed to an environment that is.

838
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:33,400
Speaker 3: Actually really toxic. That's right. I'm sorry, it is wild.

839
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:35,600
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't want to like cast dispersions.

840
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:38,120
Speaker 4: It is wild to me that this guy moved his

841
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:41,279
Speaker 4: kid into that house, right, It's just like I have

842
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:42,120
Speaker 4: to have to say.

843
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:45,280
Speaker 2: That, Like there's so many things that I was confused

844
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:47,480
Speaker 2: by that this situation, and I know this was like

845
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:50,480
Speaker 2: the early like sixties, seventies, fifties, I don't know, like

846
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:53,600
Speaker 2: sixty seventies. I think actually that I was like, yo,

847
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:57,279
Speaker 2: why would you you know, you take part in this

848
00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:00,480
Speaker 2: and you're okay with bringing your daughter in there. And

849
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 2: then also I don't know if her father knew that

850
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:07,879
Speaker 2: that situation happened, but that they didn't remove her from

851
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:10,480
Speaker 2: the situation. She remained there until she left, I believe,

852
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:15,360
Speaker 2: And when she wrote the book, she had some publicity,

853
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 2: and then she was supposed to go do a few more.

854
00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:20,960
Speaker 2: According to her, Hughefner called her. I was like, I'm

855
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:22,919
Speaker 2: so proud of you for doing this book. Great job.

856
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:24,440
Speaker 2: Can you tell me who else you were going to go?

857
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:24,800
Speaker 3: See?

858
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:27,879
Speaker 2: And then when she found out and she told him,

859
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:29,799
Speaker 2: he called all of them and they all canceled on her.

860
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:33,120
Speaker 2: So like that was essentially like, not, you're done this,

861
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:34,080
Speaker 2: This book is over.

862
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:40,480
Speaker 3: A free speech. Everybody a champion express herself right.

863
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:42,480
Speaker 2: And the woman that I was talking about earlier was

864
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 2: Mickey Garcia. She was the one that really came in

865
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:48,080
Speaker 2: the eighties and came in and testified saying, I have notes,

866
00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:50,600
Speaker 2: and she actually in the documentary pulls out boxes of

867
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:52,480
Speaker 2: notes and memos and all the things of all the

868
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:54,879
Speaker 2: complaints that she was getting from women, all the rape

869
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:57,680
Speaker 2: allegations that were happening, all the situations where they were

870
00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:00,560
Speaker 2: not correctly protected, all of these things, and then all

871
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:03,400
Speaker 2: them being swept under the rug. But she was the

872
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:05,200
Speaker 2: one that really came through. It was like, nah, this

873
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 2: is bad. Y'all are doing some bad things. And she

874
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 2: alleges also that she was told that she was in

875
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:13,759
Speaker 2: the rankings for being Playman of the Year, which the

876
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 2: way they pay is that you get a subsidential amount,

877
00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:19,720
Speaker 2: well not even substantial. During her time, it was fifteen thousand,

878
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 2: and that was like you get five thousand for the picture,

879
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 2: and it being published, you get another five thousand, uh

880
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:29,320
Speaker 2: after it's run for a year, and then get another

881
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:32,759
Speaker 2: five thousand like three years later, so literally you got

882
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:35,040
Speaker 2: five thousand a year for like the next four years.

883
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:37,359
Speaker 2: Maybe like it was an absurd way of holding money

884
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:39,760
Speaker 2: over their head for this instead of just being paid upfront,

885
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:42,239
Speaker 2: which they couldn't say no to that. They were like,

886
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 2: oh that at that point, that's not a lot of money,

887
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:47,759
Speaker 2: not really in comparison to how often you got that, but.

888
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:49,920
Speaker 3: And what they're making from that from that.

889
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:51,920
Speaker 4: So it's like when you put it in context, it's

890
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:52,480
Speaker 4: really not that.

891
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:55,440
Speaker 2: Much money, right and as well as so, she was

892
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 2: told that she was in the running for being Playman

893
00:45:57,040 --> 00:45:58,239
Speaker 2: of the Year, which was going to be like at

894
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:00,360
Speaker 2: least double if not more than that, and that was

895
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:02,759
Speaker 2: a huge deal and really big deal thing, but she

896
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:05,239
Speaker 2: had to go meet up with Hugh Hefner for a

897
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:08,840
Speaker 2: personal appointment in order to make that and when she

898
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:12,759
Speaker 2: refused to do so, they didn't say she was like

899
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 2: the person who was trying to arrange all this, which

900
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:17,200
Speaker 2: was a woman, was like, okay, that's on you. You

901
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:19,440
Speaker 2: do you. When she announced who the Playmate of the

902
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:23,560
Speaker 2: Year was, it definitely wasn't her, and of course, Garcia

903
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 2: came back with, like, I don't I'm not saying that

904
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:28,040
Speaker 2: the other woman did do any of these things and

905
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:30,120
Speaker 2: had this personal meeting in a way, whatever whatnot. But

906
00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 2: I'm just saying that I was told this is what

907
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:33,440
Speaker 2: I would need to do, or it was implied to

908
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:35,440
Speaker 2: me that this is what I needed to do to

909
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:36,320
Speaker 2: get to this point.

910
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:40,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's definitely clear that a lot of the machinations

911
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:44,760
Speaker 4: of how this inner world worked is through things being

912
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:48,520
Speaker 4: held over women's head, false promises that never come to fruition,

913
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:52,280
Speaker 4: really kind of pitting women against each other, Like it's

914
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:56,759
Speaker 4: so diabolical and toxic. The inner machinations of how this

915
00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:58,240
Speaker 4: whole system sustained.

916
00:46:57,800 --> 00:47:00,799
Speaker 2: Itself, right, And it was interesting to me, just like

917
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 2: the timeline when you see things progressing and how gross

918
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:07,480
Speaker 2: things got and the level of toxicity that remained, and

919
00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:09,879
Speaker 2: it really was like Mad Men era type of thing,

920
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:12,360
Speaker 2: and then the sixties seventies, but it was also budding

921
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:16,279
Speaker 2: heads with the feminist movement at the same time, which

922
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:18,680
Speaker 2: is a whole different conversation, and again with the racial

923
00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:21,200
Speaker 2: equality movement. So he had so many other things that

924
00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:23,239
Speaker 2: he could point to. It felt like a distraction of like,

925
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:25,799
Speaker 2: I'm so great at this that I can do these

926
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:28,920
Speaker 2: things too, Like it seems like that kind of balance.

927
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:30,640
Speaker 4: I mean again, this is where it gets complicated in

928
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 4: that he did have concrete things that you could point

929
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:36,560
Speaker 4: to and be like, oh, that was a good way

930
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:39,480
Speaker 4: to push the conversation on race Ford right, Like he

931
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:43,839
Speaker 4: published very sort of like at the time, progressive conversations

932
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:44,480
Speaker 4: about race.

933
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:45,000
Speaker 3: You know.

934
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 4: One of the first ever interviews they ever published was

935
00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:50,080
Speaker 4: an interview between Alex Haley, who was the author of

936
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:53,000
Speaker 4: the book Roots, with the jazz musician Miles Davis and

937
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:55,319
Speaker 4: It's all about This was in nineteen sixty two, and

938
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 4: it's all about like racial equality and sort of the

939
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:01,800
Speaker 4: future of race in America. Martin Luther King's longest print

940
00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:05,160
Speaker 4: interview appeared in Playboy in January of nineteen sixty five.

941
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:08,440
Speaker 4: Cooper Hefner, Hugh Hefter's son, told The Telegraph that the

942
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:11,360
Speaker 4: last article ever written by MLK before his assassination was

943
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:14,279
Speaker 4: published by Playboy. He added that a special edition was

944
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:17,680
Speaker 4: published in Braille for musician Ray Charles was blind. So

945
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:22,440
Speaker 4: he also was a big backer of Jesse Jackson's Rainbow

946
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 4: Push Coalition, which was like a big racial Justice Organization.

947
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:27,880
Speaker 4: Back in the sixties, Hefner donated twenty five thousand dollars

948
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:31,799
Speaker 4: as a reward in order to help the comedian Dick

949
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:35,400
Speaker 4: Gregory uncover the bodies of slain civil rights activists. So like,

950
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:39,640
Speaker 4: he definitely did these things that pushed the conversation around

951
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:40,880
Speaker 4: race forward.

952
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:42,320
Speaker 3: I would argue that.

953
00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:47,239
Speaker 4: These things might have been done out of genuine desire

954
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:51,960
Speaker 4: to shape conversations about race, But when he died, the

955
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:55,440
Speaker 4: way the conversation was about these things makes me also

956
00:48:55,560 --> 00:48:58,000
Speaker 4: suspect that they were done with intention to make sure

957
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:00,960
Speaker 4: that some of his less savory things be drowned out

958
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:03,600
Speaker 4: by these things, these good things that he actually did.

959
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:06,880
Speaker 2: Do right right, And that's like that big part is

960
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:11,640
Speaker 2: that he gave like this credence to the magazine. Insane

961
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:15,120
Speaker 2: is not just naked women. Look at these articles. Look

962
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:18,320
Speaker 2: at this like boundary pushing conversations we're having. We're talking

963
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:22,120
Speaker 2: about LGBTQ rights, we're talking about racial equality, we're talking

964
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:24,799
Speaker 2: about all these things that you want to hide, but

965
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:26,200
Speaker 2: we are for the people like he.

966
00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:29,200
Speaker 4: Really Yeah, but it's so funny that when you were

967
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:31,840
Speaker 4: at your friend's house and watching the Playboy channel, it

968
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:34,000
Speaker 4: wasn't like, we're gonna put on the Playboy channel. What

969
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:38,120
Speaker 4: is this Alex Haley in conversation with Miles Davis about

970
00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:39,200
Speaker 4: racial equality.

971
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:41,319
Speaker 3: This is bad, let's watch it.

972
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:43,480
Speaker 2: I mean, it's become of a movie. Was like, no,

973
00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:47,520
Speaker 2: I get Playboy for the articles. That's that like joke

974
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:50,719
Speaker 2: that people have about it. Honestly, the first time I

975
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:53,720
Speaker 2: realized people and maybe because I was out of the world,

976
00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:55,920
Speaker 2: out of that world like that was very I was

977
00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:58,720
Speaker 2: very religious and so like that was all bad anyway

978
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:01,239
Speaker 2: because it was naked women in general, bad bad, bad,

979
00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:04,279
Speaker 2: but like having the Like the first time I think

980
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:06,760
Speaker 2: someone talked about the articles was something with George Clooney

981
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:10,680
Speaker 2: related like he had published something and I can't even remember,

982
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:13,920
Speaker 2: or about about some depth of a conversation that seemed

983
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:17,080
Speaker 2: really political. And then I think John Mayer wrote an

984
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:19,880
Speaker 2: article in there or was interviewed in there, talking about

985
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:23,239
Speaker 2: how he was getting his sobriety and how he made

986
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:25,719
Speaker 2: all these mistakes, like he was first like slamming the

987
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:28,400
Speaker 2: women and then he came back later with now I'm sober.

988
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:33,960
Speaker 1: Sounds like it's very interesting, very interesting to me that

989
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:38,560
Speaker 1: it's like, look at these women naked the articles.

990
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:42,319
Speaker 5: From what I'm hearing, and mostly men, I.

991
00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:45,600
Speaker 2: Don't think you're wrong. I think he's probably right about

992
00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:47,319
Speaker 2: That's what I was thinking too, is like when he

993
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:50,440
Speaker 2: talked about giving equal rights. Not that that's not because

994
00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:53,640
Speaker 2: we need more voices obviously, but it was more black

995
00:50:53,680 --> 00:50:57,120
Speaker 2: women doing their investigative reporters when they were talking about it. Also,

996
00:50:57,239 --> 00:50:59,560
Speaker 2: they did send one, uh and I think it's that

997
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:04,000
Speaker 2: same comedian to a Neil like the newly founded American

998
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:08,520
Speaker 2: Nazi Group to interview them, who had a gun entire

999
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:13,640
Speaker 2: interview with him, to threaten him. I'm like, really, like

1000
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:15,800
Speaker 2: that's what you decided that was really gonna be cool?

1001
00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:19,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I do think like we could do

1002
00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:22,399
Speaker 4: a whole, like like a whole conversation on the way

1003
00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:28,200
Speaker 4: that Playboy understands and creates journalism and media, like apart.

1004
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:28,879
Speaker 3: From the pornography.

1005
00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:31,799
Speaker 4: I actually the only copy of Playboy magazine that I

1006
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:33,800
Speaker 4: actually have in my house is one from the seventies

1007
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:34,640
Speaker 4: with an interview with.

1008
00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:36,600
Speaker 3: Gore Vidal, the novelist, and so like.

1009
00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:41,439
Speaker 4: They certainly weren't like publishing I think with intention trying

1010
00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:45,960
Speaker 4: to publish sort of high minded, serious writing like Norman

1011
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:50,440
Speaker 4: Mail or things like that. I think to again like

1012
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:52,920
Speaker 4: manufacture this idea that if you had a playboy in

1013
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:56,080
Speaker 4: your home, you weren't just looking at pictures of breasts

1014
00:51:56,200 --> 00:52:00,480
Speaker 4: or whatever. You were reading like serious, serious and writing

1015
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:01,759
Speaker 4: about serious topics.

1016
00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:14,799
Speaker 2: And I think like when we talked about like who

1017
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:17,239
Speaker 2: he was in the legend that he left behind, and

1018
00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:20,839
Speaker 2: we we're probably talking about a lot of big insinuations

1019
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:23,000
Speaker 2: in this, like the when we talk about any of

1020
00:52:23,040 --> 00:52:25,360
Speaker 2: the good things that he does, there's always a butt

1021
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:29,480
Speaker 2: like there's there This conversation cannot have that. So it's

1022
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:32,640
Speaker 2: like if you looked at our outline the way like

1023
00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:34,239
Speaker 2: we had placed, it was like, oh, we're gonna try

1024
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:35,879
Speaker 2: to talk about these things, but then we'll come into

1025
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:38,960
Speaker 2: the scandal of it all. But then like not, it

1026
00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:41,120
Speaker 2: just kind of all sets in. It can't do that.

1027
00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:43,880
Speaker 2: There's no real way of like this is what he

1028
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:46,239
Speaker 2: did in the legacy, like blah blah blah, but this

1029
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:48,200
Speaker 2: is the legacy, and this is a part of his legacy,

1030
00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:50,160
Speaker 2: Like the bad is also a part of his legacy,

1031
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:52,880
Speaker 2: and we have to forget it it just because it's

1032
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:55,960
Speaker 2: newly sought out or at least uh women have now

1033
00:52:56,239 --> 00:52:58,799
Speaker 2: or people marginalized people have finally come about to talk

1034
00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:02,440
Speaker 2: about it doesn't mean that it wasn't always there, you

1035
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:04,640
Speaker 2: know what I mean, Like this is a conversation which

1036
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:08,000
Speaker 2: again this is a side note of the thing that

1037
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:11,080
Speaker 2: I saw so much of in this documentary, the back

1038
00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:14,960
Speaker 2: and forth even from the victims themselves and the survivors themselves,

1039
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:17,520
Speaker 2: talking about I know I should have done all these things.

1040
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:20,279
Speaker 2: I know I should have gone out. I'm smarter than this,

1041
00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:22,759
Speaker 2: I should not have done this, this is my fault.

1042
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:24,719
Speaker 2: The many times I heard them say this is my

1043
00:53:24,840 --> 00:53:27,000
Speaker 2: fault made me want to throw up. To be honest,

1044
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:29,320
Speaker 2: like I was, just like this is irritating, even to

1045
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:32,080
Speaker 2: the point that one of the ones who was Hugh

1046
00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:36,040
Speaker 2: Hefner's friend and work and defends him to this day,

1047
00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:39,720
Speaker 2: like she had a group for support for Hugh Hefner

1048
00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:43,040
Speaker 2: on different pages and whatnot. She talked about the fact

1049
00:53:43,640 --> 00:53:48,399
Speaker 2: that not Hugh Hefner, but one of his like ringleaders

1050
00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:51,359
Speaker 2: kind of set her up to be raped by one

1051
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:54,880
Speaker 2: of the photographers that worked close in hand with Hugh Hefner,

1052
00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:58,080
Speaker 2: and she came out getting mad and yelling at that

1053
00:53:58,239 --> 00:54:01,200
Speaker 2: friend and saying, don't you shouldn't like she had told her,

1054
00:54:01,480 --> 00:54:02,960
Speaker 2: you know, I'm leaving with you, don't leave me here

1055
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:06,640
Speaker 2: because she knew something bad would happen, and said, don't, like,

1056
00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:08,640
Speaker 2: you should never do that to a woman, You never

1057
00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:11,279
Speaker 2: do that to another woman. But previously, if you like

1058
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:13,520
Speaker 2: had a cut two moment in my head in which

1059
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:17,440
Speaker 2: she had like went after Holly, who was one of

1060
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:20,040
Speaker 2: the girlfriends from The Girl next Door, probably the lead girlfriend,

1061
00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:23,279
Speaker 2: probably the most like famous of the ones, like people

1062
00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:26,000
Speaker 2: who know nothing about Hugh Hefner or the play why

1063
00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:29,680
Speaker 2: I knew who she was? Holly Madison had written her

1064
00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:33,160
Speaker 2: memoir and in the documentary, she's like, how dare she

1065
00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:35,359
Speaker 2: She was not unhappy? Why was she stay there? Why

1066
00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:37,160
Speaker 2: would she do these things? Why is she's lying now

1067
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:39,359
Speaker 2: because she's she's taking his name like she was mad,

1068
00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:41,480
Speaker 2: But she was also the same person who had an

1069
00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:46,600
Speaker 2: experience that just wasn't Hugh Hefner personally related, but losing

1070
00:54:46,719 --> 00:54:49,680
Speaker 2: that connection that there's a reason that culture was okay,

1071
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:53,560
Speaker 2: there's a reason another woman who worked very closely with

1072
00:54:53,719 --> 00:54:58,440
Speaker 2: Hugh Hefner literally set you up to be raped, and

1073
00:54:58,680 --> 00:55:01,480
Speaker 2: she could not connect that even today. And that's kind

1074
00:55:01,520 --> 00:55:05,120
Speaker 2: of that conversation that we like it. It's so jarring

1075
00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:07,000
Speaker 2: to see. And I don't know if she noticed it.

1076
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:09,719
Speaker 2: I doubt she did. After I don't know if you

1077
00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:11,840
Speaker 2: watched the entire thing, but like herself, the woman that

1078
00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:14,600
Speaker 2: was on the documentary. But that's the level of like

1079
00:55:15,080 --> 00:55:19,120
Speaker 2: conversations that people really really forget that there's a connection here.

1080
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:22,880
Speaker 3: Oh my god, totally. So the way that you clocked

1081
00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:24,400
Speaker 3: that is so insightful.

1082
00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:28,200
Speaker 4: And from listening to a lot of the Girls Next

1083
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:30,480
Speaker 4: Level podcast and from reading a lot of the memoirs

1084
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:34,719
Speaker 4: that I think that is still an undercurrent where I

1085
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:36,440
Speaker 4: do think a lot of the women who were in

1086
00:55:36,600 --> 00:55:42,400
Speaker 4: this orbit, whether they believe that something coercive happened to

1087
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:45,600
Speaker 4: them or not, I think a lot of them are

1088
00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:50,120
Speaker 4: still doing currently doing the work of like processing that

1089
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:54,120
Speaker 4: and put and like contextualizing it. And I think that

1090
00:55:54,280 --> 00:55:58,279
Speaker 4: when you are steeped in this world that is really

1091
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:03,080
Speaker 4: about putting women in against each other, surveillance and exploitation,

1092
00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:06,200
Speaker 4: Like a lot of the women talk about, everybody in

1093
00:56:06,239 --> 00:56:08,319
Speaker 4: their orbit is also kind of like vying for their job,

1094
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:10,319
Speaker 4: and so you don't know who to trust a lot

1095
00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:11,080
Speaker 4: of surveillance.

1096
00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:15,719
Speaker 3: I think that that kind of environment would make any would.

1097
00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:17,759
Speaker 4: Be tough for anybody, And I really see the ways that,

1098
00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:20,680
Speaker 4: like even today, I'm not sure that they have truly

1099
00:56:20,920 --> 00:56:24,239
Speaker 4: processed what that has done to them and how that

1100
00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:28,759
Speaker 4: has colored their own internal understanding of what happened, because

1101
00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:30,080
Speaker 4: I really see a lot of them sort of doing

1102
00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:32,000
Speaker 4: a lot of that work in public, and I think

1103
00:56:32,040 --> 00:56:33,640
Speaker 4: for anybody that would be really tough.

1104
00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:36,919
Speaker 2: Right absolutely that what really was the back and forth

1105
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:41,320
Speaker 2: of like them not being able to fully blame the

1106
00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:46,440
Speaker 2: perpetrator and not fully understanding the depth the things that

1107
00:56:46,520 --> 00:56:48,719
Speaker 2: have gone through, because again, this is that same level,

1108
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:53,040
Speaker 2: and I really want to highlight for conservative people or

1109
00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:57,160
Speaker 2: at least like those who would be very like conspiratory people,

1110
00:56:57,440 --> 00:56:59,960
Speaker 2: like this is grooming, This is trafficking. If you want

1111
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:02,080
Speaker 2: want to know what we are talking about and what

1112
00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:06,800
Speaker 2: grooming and trafficking truly looks like this is it because

1113
00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:11,360
Speaker 2: these women have been told and in like till today,

1114
00:57:11,480 --> 00:57:16,560
Speaker 2: like people still find Playboy as a mecca or the

1115
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:20,560
Speaker 2: all like final realm of being sexy and a professional.

1116
00:57:20,680 --> 00:57:22,840
Speaker 2: Like you see so many athletes coming into like I

1117
00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:24,760
Speaker 2: can be both these things and these are going to

1118
00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:28,840
Speaker 2: meld my image into this beautiful way of whatever whatnot,

1119
00:57:28,840 --> 00:57:30,360
Speaker 2: which you know, we'll come back to the fact that

1120
00:57:30,520 --> 00:57:32,040
Speaker 2: that's taken a long time to get to there. And

1121
00:57:32,120 --> 00:57:34,960
Speaker 2: they want to credit Playboy for this, this level of

1122
00:57:35,040 --> 00:57:39,360
Speaker 2: acceptance as being a feminine woman, because that's what Playboy

1123
00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:42,640
Speaker 2: chouts as well as an athlete, like these things as

1124
00:57:42,680 --> 00:57:45,520
Speaker 2: a way of opening up their image. But what we're

1125
00:57:45,600 --> 00:57:48,800
Speaker 2: looking at here is that young women being told, oh

1126
00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:52,240
Speaker 2: my god, you're so pretty, You're so beautiful. We really

1127
00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:55,160
Speaker 2: want to help you grow your career. We really want

1128
00:57:55,240 --> 00:57:57,560
Speaker 2: to help you do these things. If you want to

1129
00:57:57,640 --> 00:57:59,280
Speaker 2: do these test shoes, we're only going to do things

1130
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:02,280
Speaker 2: that make you feel comfortable. Oh you're uncomfortable. Here, let

1131
00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:03,760
Speaker 2: me give you some a little bit of a little

1132
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:06,200
Speaker 2: bit of vodka here, it'll be good. You gonna will

1133
00:58:06,280 --> 00:58:08,600
Speaker 2: helps you put to ease. We're gonna get you here.

1134
00:58:08,840 --> 00:58:11,200
Speaker 2: Look at this picture. Isn't this beautiful of you? Oh

1135
00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:13,160
Speaker 2: my god? We want here to meet somebody, meet so

1136
00:58:13,280 --> 00:58:16,440
Speaker 2: and so. And the love bombing, which one of the

1137
00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:20,320
Speaker 2: older playmates who she was like the star essentially of

1138
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:24,280
Speaker 2: the first season, Sonya Theodore, who was one of first

1139
00:58:24,320 --> 00:58:28,600
Speaker 2: girlfriends in the mansion, talked about that this level of

1140
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:31,880
Speaker 2: like conversation and grooming and coming into being like, Oh,

1141
00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:34,840
Speaker 2: you're so loved, You're so adored, You're the best thing

1142
00:58:34,960 --> 00:58:37,280
Speaker 2: for me, and everybody talking about how she was so

1143
00:58:37,600 --> 00:58:41,000
Speaker 2: in love with with how hef was so in love

1144
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:43,600
Speaker 2: with her, Like again, uh, these couple people would be

1145
00:58:43,640 --> 00:58:45,880
Speaker 2: like they should have gotten married. He truly loved her,

1146
00:58:46,040 --> 00:58:48,040
Speaker 2: She truly loved him and all these things to the

1147
00:58:48,080 --> 00:58:51,120
Speaker 2: point that her daughter was like mad at her mom

1148
00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:54,640
Speaker 2: at first for doing these types of documentaries because she

1149
00:58:54,680 --> 00:58:57,640
Speaker 2: didn't understand the depth of abuse that she because she

1150
00:58:58,440 --> 00:59:02,120
Speaker 2: was told by her mother that have really changed their life,

1151
00:59:02,560 --> 00:59:05,640
Speaker 2: really put them into such a better place, really loved

1152
00:59:05,720 --> 00:59:10,160
Speaker 2: and cared for her. But in her story, she talks

1153
00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:12,480
Speaker 2: about like really like loving him and really wanting to

1154
00:59:12,520 --> 00:59:14,520
Speaker 2: do these things for him and being there for him

1155
00:59:14,600 --> 00:59:18,360
Speaker 2: and experiencing these new things and getting away from her

1156
00:59:18,880 --> 00:59:21,560
Speaker 2: ugly past into all of a sudden being like, oh,

1157
00:59:22,080 --> 00:59:24,400
Speaker 2: I have to recruit other girls to be a part

1158
00:59:24,440 --> 00:59:28,160
Speaker 2: of this, begging other girls to be a part of this,

1159
00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:30,320
Speaker 2: so she didn't know she didn't have to suffer alone,

1160
00:59:30,560 --> 00:59:33,240
Speaker 2: like she talks about that, to the point that she

1161
00:59:33,320 --> 00:59:37,480
Speaker 2: also talks about like being handed over to his guy

1162
00:59:37,560 --> 00:59:41,040
Speaker 2: friends and her telling him this hurts me, This dude

1163
00:59:41,120 --> 00:59:42,600
Speaker 2: hurts me. I don't make me do this, and he

1164
00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:45,400
Speaker 2: just laughing at her and moving on like stuff like that,

1165
00:59:45,560 --> 00:59:49,880
Speaker 2: like this is like, this is trafficking. This this is greaming.

1166
00:59:50,200 --> 00:59:51,640
Speaker 2: Let me show you what this is. And this is

1167
00:59:51,720 --> 00:59:54,640
Speaker 2: happening to what you see as a quintessential you know, victim,

1168
00:59:54,920 --> 00:59:58,600
Speaker 2: this white woman who has like it and but many

1169
00:59:58,680 --> 01:00:01,600
Speaker 2: people when after her saying she chose this life so

1170
01:00:01,800 --> 01:00:06,160
Speaker 2: like those who's spout trafficking and blad trafficking is awful,

1171
01:00:06,240 --> 01:00:08,520
Speaker 2: we need to stop trafficking. Also doesn't believe that this

1172
01:00:08,640 --> 01:00:09,160
Speaker 2: is trafficking.

1173
01:00:09,640 --> 01:00:10,360
Speaker 3: Oh my god.

1174
01:00:10,480 --> 01:00:13,520
Speaker 4: So you're talking about the experience of his first girlfriend.

1175
01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:15,760
Speaker 4: I have read the memoir of I guess like his

1176
01:00:15,920 --> 01:00:18,040
Speaker 4: last girlfriend, the woman who was married.

1177
01:00:17,760 --> 01:00:18,520
Speaker 3: To him when he dies.

1178
01:00:18,560 --> 01:00:20,040
Speaker 2: Yes, she just released that.

1179
01:00:20,240 --> 01:00:21,760
Speaker 3: I recommended it was a very good read.

1180
01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:24,160
Speaker 4: I know that when her memoir was released, people in

1181
01:00:24,240 --> 01:00:26,600
Speaker 4: the Playboy Orbert were like, oh, she's just lying, Like

1182
01:00:26,920 --> 01:00:28,040
Speaker 4: she shows this life.

1183
01:00:27,920 --> 01:00:31,360
Speaker 3: But toward the end, I mean, you're talking about trafficking.

1184
01:00:32,040 --> 01:00:35,160
Speaker 4: Toward the end of the book, so she describes what

1185
01:00:35,240 --> 01:00:37,880
Speaker 4: it's like to be in the mansion, which it just

1186
01:00:37,920 --> 01:00:38,640
Speaker 4: sounds awful.

1187
01:00:39,680 --> 01:00:41,760
Speaker 3: I want to give some tidbits about it, but it

1188
01:00:41,840 --> 01:00:43,160
Speaker 3: just it just sounds awful.

1189
01:00:43,600 --> 01:00:46,040
Speaker 4: But when she decides like I don't want to do

1190
01:00:46,080 --> 01:00:48,080
Speaker 4: this anymore, I want to leave, the way that she

1191
01:00:48,240 --> 01:00:51,440
Speaker 4: has to get out because of the way money works

1192
01:00:51,600 --> 01:00:54,240
Speaker 4: within the mansion. But women are giving an allowance of

1193
01:00:54,280 --> 01:00:57,680
Speaker 4: a thousand dollars a week. It's this stop ritual where

1194
01:00:57,680 --> 01:01:00,280
Speaker 4: they have to go to helf and ask for the

1195
01:01:00,360 --> 01:01:02,600
Speaker 4: money and he's like, well, I guess you've been a

1196
01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:03,120
Speaker 4: good girl.

1197
01:01:03,360 --> 01:01:05,680
Speaker 3: Here you go, and they it's a thousand dollars cash.

1198
01:01:06,120 --> 01:01:09,640
Speaker 4: They're not allowed to really do work to earn money

1199
01:01:09,880 --> 01:01:11,360
Speaker 4: outside of Playboy.

1200
01:01:11,720 --> 01:01:14,160
Speaker 3: Every now and then they can do like appearances or something, but.

1201
01:01:14,200 --> 01:01:16,280
Speaker 4: All of that really has to go through Playboy unless

1202
01:01:16,280 --> 01:01:18,640
Speaker 4: they do like a centerfold or an image, and then

1203
01:01:18,640 --> 01:01:20,000
Speaker 4: they get like a little bit of a talent, a

1204
01:01:20,040 --> 01:01:22,600
Speaker 4: little bit of a talent feed side note, the women

1205
01:01:22,960 --> 01:01:25,680
Speaker 4: who were on Girls next Door did not get paid.

1206
01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:29,080
Speaker 4: Didn't get paid. The first person to bring up like

1207
01:01:29,120 --> 01:01:31,040
Speaker 4: they should be paid was Kendra, and that was after

1208
01:01:31,120 --> 01:01:35,360
Speaker 4: the second season. Hugh Hefter got four hundred thousand dollars

1209
01:01:35,400 --> 01:01:38,680
Speaker 4: an episode and was barely in the show and to like,

1210
01:01:39,360 --> 01:01:41,400
Speaker 4: you know, the only way that these women could really

1211
01:01:41,440 --> 01:01:45,560
Speaker 4: make money was through Playboy, and so Crystal when she

1212
01:01:45,680 --> 01:01:47,840
Speaker 4: was like I've had enough of this, she basically started

1213
01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:50,720
Speaker 4: kind of like scrolling away her money and saving it

1214
01:01:50,840 --> 01:01:52,640
Speaker 4: up and like moving her stuff out of the house

1215
01:01:52,840 --> 01:01:55,600
Speaker 4: little by little. And the way that she has to

1216
01:01:55,680 --> 01:01:57,640
Speaker 4: get out is the way that you would have to

1217
01:01:57,720 --> 01:01:59,560
Speaker 4: get out of a situation that you are not really

1218
01:01:59,720 --> 01:02:03,240
Speaker 4: in consensually. Before I read her memoir, I was like, Oh,

1219
01:02:03,320 --> 01:02:05,880
Speaker 4: it does sound like this is coercive or whatever whatever.

1220
01:02:06,320 --> 01:02:09,280
Speaker 4: She was being low key kept against her will when

1221
01:02:09,360 --> 01:02:11,720
Speaker 4: she had finally had enough. At one point, she recounts

1222
01:02:11,760 --> 01:02:13,880
Speaker 4: that when she was trying to like physically leave, she

1223
01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:15,400
Speaker 4: had to be like, oh, I'm just going to the

1224
01:02:15,440 --> 01:02:18,000
Speaker 4: store to get some tampons, and then she had to

1225
01:02:18,120 --> 01:02:20,040
Speaker 4: get in her car and like split and that when

1226
01:02:20,080 --> 01:02:22,440
Speaker 4: they realized that she was trying to leave, Hugh Hefner

1227
01:02:22,560 --> 01:02:24,440
Speaker 4: was like, don't let her leave. And then it occurs

1228
01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:26,640
Speaker 4: to her She's like, oh, I'm actually genuinely being held

1229
01:02:26,640 --> 01:02:28,440
Speaker 4: against my will a little bit. And so when you

1230
01:02:28,560 --> 01:02:31,800
Speaker 4: say when you use words like trafficking, I think people

1231
01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:33,640
Speaker 4: think that we're using it as a euphemism.

1232
01:02:33,720 --> 01:02:37,200
Speaker 3: But if you are in a living situation that you have,

1233
01:02:37,640 --> 01:02:38,040
Speaker 3: you can.

1234
01:02:38,080 --> 01:02:42,560
Speaker 4: Only leave via secretly hiding money away and lying about

1235
01:02:42,560 --> 01:02:44,840
Speaker 4: where you're going. And when when you try to leave,

1236
01:02:45,160 --> 01:02:48,720
Speaker 4: somebody physically restrains you. You tell me what that sounds like.

1237
01:02:48,840 --> 01:02:49,760
Speaker 3: You know, right?

1238
01:02:50,160 --> 01:02:52,080
Speaker 2: But that's the problem. Is like when we talk about

1239
01:02:52,120 --> 01:02:54,880
Speaker 2: exploitation here, an exploitation, by the way, is a nice

1240
01:02:54,880 --> 01:02:58,600
Speaker 2: word for this, Like I really wish like and we will,

1241
01:02:58,640 --> 01:03:02,560
Speaker 2: I think, actually go deeper into it because like again, kidnapping, coercaling, trafficking,

1242
01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:07,800
Speaker 2: those were the things that were happening. Rape, sexual assault, drugging,

1243
01:03:07,960 --> 01:03:11,880
Speaker 2: all of these things were happening in this era and

1244
01:03:12,720 --> 01:03:15,720
Speaker 2: in connection to so I think this is the biggest thing.

1245
01:03:15,840 --> 01:03:17,880
Speaker 2: Is like part of the conversation that people want to

1246
01:03:17,960 --> 01:03:20,880
Speaker 2: have is that it wasn't him. He didn't know what

1247
01:03:21,000 --> 01:03:23,080
Speaker 2: was going on. But this dude was a control free

1248
01:03:23,080 --> 01:03:28,240
Speaker 2: because the cameras everywhere. In fact, Tony Curtis, who legendary

1249
01:03:28,280 --> 01:03:31,400
Speaker 2: actor part of that, didn't know and actually came in

1250
01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:33,160
Speaker 2: and I believe, I don't know if he sued him.

1251
01:03:33,640 --> 01:03:37,320
Speaker 2: I think he did sue him to get any video.

1252
01:03:37,560 --> 01:03:38,400
Speaker 5: That would.

1253
01:03:39,720 --> 01:03:43,880
Speaker 2: Have of him because he freaked out, did not realize

1254
01:03:43,960 --> 01:03:46,640
Speaker 2: what was happening, Like, so we know those were there.

1255
01:03:46,840 --> 01:03:50,520
Speaker 2: That has been accounted for. That is a fact. Every

1256
01:03:50,640 --> 01:03:54,360
Speaker 2: single person that worked there, every single person that went

1257
01:03:54,480 --> 01:03:57,320
Speaker 2: there for a long period of time, knew those whore existed.

1258
01:03:57,400 --> 01:03:59,680
Speaker 2: After a certain amount of time, not at first, not.

1259
01:04:00,440 --> 01:04:03,960
Speaker 2: It finally came out and people started figuring out, oh, oh,

1260
01:04:04,040 --> 01:04:07,320
Speaker 2: he's keeping tabs because there was a power play. It

1261
01:04:07,440 --> 01:04:10,960
Speaker 2: was a kink and a power play. And it's interesting

1262
01:04:11,080 --> 01:04:14,240
Speaker 2: that when we talk about the exploitation, because it can

1263
01:04:14,480 --> 01:04:19,160
Speaker 2: range from anything to just using photos of women to

1264
01:04:19,240 --> 01:04:22,200
Speaker 2: make money off of it. Two, which is bad enough,

1265
01:04:22,680 --> 01:04:26,680
Speaker 2: to once again sending them to a night, remote isolated

1266
01:04:26,760 --> 01:04:30,680
Speaker 2: area to a man who has asked to essentially buy them,

1267
01:04:31,040 --> 01:04:34,360
Speaker 2: which included Trump by the way, and to use them

1268
01:04:34,440 --> 01:04:39,480
Speaker 2: allegedly allegedly, and to the fact that women not knowing

1269
01:04:39,560 --> 01:04:41,919
Speaker 2: this was happening. So when they got there thinking they're

1270
01:04:41,960 --> 01:04:45,560
Speaker 2: going in for a modeling job. And the story with

1271
01:04:45,960 --> 01:04:48,680
Speaker 2: Trump was she was told that she was going to

1272
01:04:48,760 --> 01:04:52,720
Speaker 2: the Tropicana campaign, was going to be modeling, shows up

1273
01:04:53,240 --> 01:04:55,680
Speaker 2: and she's like, oh, sitting and talking to him, having

1274
01:04:55,760 --> 01:04:58,160
Speaker 2: dinner with him, doing all those things, and he was

1275
01:04:58,320 --> 01:05:00,440
Speaker 2: like she was like, okay, so let's when why I

1276
01:05:00,480 --> 01:05:02,160
Speaker 2: start this. And he was like, look, that's not happening.

1277
01:05:02,320 --> 01:05:04,000
Speaker 2: That's not a thing. You're not here for modeling. And

1278
01:05:04,080 --> 01:05:07,360
Speaker 2: she was like excuse me, and she called somebody and

1279
01:05:07,640 --> 01:05:10,440
Speaker 2: said I'm not doing this and she immediately left. She

1280
01:05:10,720 --> 01:05:13,720
Speaker 2: did say nothing happened, but that was the setup, like

1281
01:05:13,840 --> 01:05:17,360
Speaker 2: he she had gotten set up to be a sex

1282
01:05:17,760 --> 01:05:21,440
Speaker 2: thing for Trump against her will, like being co warced,

1283
01:05:21,480 --> 01:05:23,840
Speaker 2: like hoping that they could just scare her into it,

1284
01:05:24,120 --> 01:05:24,800
Speaker 2: and that happened.

1285
01:05:24,920 --> 01:05:26,240
Speaker 3: And we have a word for that.

1286
01:05:26,640 --> 01:05:31,800
Speaker 4: Someone who is being coerced against their will into doing

1287
01:05:32,280 --> 01:05:35,400
Speaker 4: sexual activities with somebody that they don't want to do

1288
01:05:35,560 --> 01:05:38,280
Speaker 4: that with. The law has a word for that. It's trafficking.

1289
01:05:38,880 --> 01:05:42,080
Speaker 4: That's not like us being hysterical or something.

1290
01:05:42,560 --> 01:05:43,760
Speaker 3: That's that's the word.

1291
01:05:44,120 --> 01:05:47,240
Speaker 4: And so I feel like when we yeah, I just

1292
01:05:47,360 --> 01:05:49,360
Speaker 4: I think it's easy to make it seem like we're

1293
01:05:49,440 --> 01:05:53,120
Speaker 4: like like talking about this in a way that is exaggerated.

1294
01:05:53,200 --> 01:05:54,600
Speaker 4: But you tell to mean what that sounds.

1295
01:05:54,400 --> 01:05:57,120
Speaker 2: Like, right exactly, And that's exactly the conversation is, like

1296
01:05:57,440 --> 01:05:59,760
Speaker 2: y'all never really say it, because I don't really think

1297
01:05:59,800 --> 01:06:04,320
Speaker 2: they mention trafficking in the documentary and I'm freaking out

1298
01:06:04,320 --> 01:06:06,960
Speaker 2: of the social worker, going that's the epitome. This is

1299
01:06:07,040 --> 01:06:10,880
Speaker 2: what's happening. You have bought yourself a group of women

1300
01:06:11,960 --> 01:06:16,320
Speaker 2: through a promise of fame and money to do your

1301
01:06:16,400 --> 01:06:20,840
Speaker 2: bidding to get power or money from other beings, and

1302
01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:23,320
Speaker 2: they have no controller say except they are owed to

1303
01:06:23,560 --> 01:06:25,920
Speaker 2: this to you in their minds, in the minds of

1304
01:06:25,960 --> 01:06:27,840
Speaker 2: the power to be that they owe this to you

1305
01:06:27,920 --> 01:06:31,040
Speaker 2: because you're trying to do these things for them. Maybe right,

1306
01:06:31,120 --> 01:06:31,640
Speaker 2: they played the.

1307
01:06:31,640 --> 01:06:38,120
Speaker 4: Game, and within the context of the women like Holly Bridget, Kendra, Crystal,

1308
01:06:38,480 --> 01:06:42,320
Speaker 4: the twins Christina and Carisa, it's a lot more explicit

1309
01:06:42,720 --> 01:06:46,840
Speaker 4: that this is an exchange of sex for money within

1310
01:06:46,920 --> 01:06:49,800
Speaker 4: the context of like the Girl's next door ecosystem, like

1311
01:06:49,880 --> 01:06:52,920
Speaker 4: the like all of the girls are clear we are

1312
01:06:53,040 --> 01:06:57,720
Speaker 4: expected to have nightly orgies on film with Hugh and

1313
01:06:57,880 --> 01:07:00,800
Speaker 4: we are paid one thousand dollars a week allowance for that,

1314
01:07:00,960 --> 01:07:02,240
Speaker 4: and we get room and board for that.

1315
01:07:02,520 --> 01:07:04,880
Speaker 3: Like that is that is much more explicit for the

1316
01:07:04,920 --> 01:07:05,960
Speaker 3: women who are living.

1317
01:07:05,800 --> 01:07:09,479
Speaker 4: In the house, and it's curious to me how people

1318
01:07:09,520 --> 01:07:13,360
Speaker 4: would then have trouble believing that outside of the house.

1319
01:07:13,400 --> 01:07:14,680
Speaker 4: For the women who were just sort of in the

1320
01:07:14,880 --> 01:07:18,320
Speaker 4: orbit in a perfheral way. How's that kind of same

1321
01:07:18,480 --> 01:07:21,240
Speaker 4: dynamic would still be there? Like, I'm like, this is

1322
01:07:21,280 --> 01:07:23,480
Speaker 4: the drill. Obviously, this is the drill. The women who

1323
01:07:23,560 --> 01:07:25,320
Speaker 4: lived within the house say, this is what happened. They

1324
01:07:25,360 --> 01:07:27,800
Speaker 4: had a very clear understanding of this as a kind

1325
01:07:27,800 --> 01:07:29,600
Speaker 4: of job where the thing that they had to do

1326
01:07:29,920 --> 01:07:32,920
Speaker 4: was sexual favors. Why would that Why would that not

1327
01:07:33,080 --> 01:07:35,200
Speaker 4: be the case for the women who were just modeling

1328
01:07:35,280 --> 01:07:37,600
Speaker 4: or the women who were peripherally in the Playboy orbit?

1329
01:07:38,080 --> 01:07:41,960
Speaker 2: Right? Right? So I was saying that I had the

1330
01:07:42,080 --> 01:07:44,400
Speaker 2: names of the girlfriends, and I have to tell you

1331
01:07:44,600 --> 01:07:48,080
Speaker 2: that the title of the article, which is how from

1332
01:07:48,120 --> 01:07:51,360
Speaker 2: Hollywoodlife dot Com puts it, Hugh Hefner and the women

1333
01:07:51,400 --> 01:07:53,600
Speaker 2: who loved him, and I think the chunk of them

1334
01:07:53,640 --> 01:07:55,160
Speaker 2: were like, we didn't love him. We were just told

1335
01:07:55,240 --> 01:07:58,080
Speaker 2: that we would get money. Yeah, which I'm like, why

1336
01:07:58,080 --> 01:08:01,600
Speaker 2: would you post it that way? And I say, they

1337
01:08:01,600 --> 01:08:03,720
Speaker 2: actually write that for the twins. By the way, the

1338
01:08:03,760 --> 01:08:06,120
Speaker 2: twins were nineteen years old when they were flown there.

1339
01:08:06,440 --> 01:08:09,120
Speaker 2: They had like, sure they were they had had sex before,

1340
01:08:09,160 --> 01:08:11,400
Speaker 2: but they never had sex together. And being with Hugh

1341
01:08:11,440 --> 01:08:13,720
Speaker 2: Hefner was the first time because they were living his fantasy.

1342
01:08:14,280 --> 01:08:17,800
Speaker 1: Oh so I think we're going to have to turn

1343
01:08:17,880 --> 01:08:21,720
Speaker 1: this into a two parter. It's clear that we have

1344
01:08:21,880 --> 01:08:24,880
Speaker 1: a lot to say surprise, surprise, feminists have a lot

1345
01:08:24,920 --> 01:08:25,920
Speaker 1: to say about Hugh Hefner.

1346
01:08:26,720 --> 01:08:29,560
Speaker 5: So we'll come back with the part two. But in

1347
01:08:29,720 --> 01:08:31,800
Speaker 5: the meantime, bridget where can the good listeners find you?

1348
01:08:32,200 --> 01:08:34,640
Speaker 3: You can find me at I Hate Hugh Hefner dot org.

1349
01:08:34,800 --> 01:08:39,439
Speaker 3: Just kidding, you can listen to my podcast. There are

1350
01:08:39,479 --> 01:08:40,479
Speaker 3: no girls on the Internet.

1351
01:08:40,840 --> 01:08:43,639
Speaker 4: It's important to deconstruct all of the ways that media

1352
01:08:43,760 --> 01:08:46,920
Speaker 4: and technology has been used to exploit, and we do that,

1353
01:08:47,200 --> 01:08:49,240
Speaker 4: and so I'm thankful that you all do that too

1354
01:08:49,360 --> 01:08:52,120
Speaker 4: and gave me the space to really lay that bear

1355
01:08:52,240 --> 01:08:54,920
Speaker 4: when it comes to Playboy and Hugh Hefner and listeners.

1356
01:08:54,960 --> 01:08:57,080
Speaker 1: If you would like to contact us, you can. You

1357
01:08:57,120 --> 01:08:59,439
Speaker 1: can emails it Stephani your mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com.

1358
01:08:59,520 --> 01:09:01,160
Speaker 1: You can find it on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast,

1359
01:09:01,320 --> 01:09:03,280
Speaker 1: or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff when Never told you.

1360
01:09:03,479 --> 01:09:05,559
Speaker 1: We're also on YouTube. We have a tea public store,

1361
01:09:05,880 --> 01:09:07,360
Speaker 1: and we have a book you can get wherever you

1362
01:09:07,439 --> 01:09:10,479
Speaker 1: get your books. Thanks as always too, our super producer Christina,

1363
01:09:10,520 --> 01:09:13,360
Speaker 1: our executive producer Maya, and your contributor Joey. Thank you

1364
01:09:13,920 --> 01:09:15,920
Speaker 1: and thanks to you for listening stuff never told you

1365
01:09:15,960 --> 01:09:17,600
Speaker 1: the production of I Heart Radio. For more podcast with

1366
01:09:17,640 --> 01:09:19,320
Speaker 1: my Heart Radio, you can check out the heart Radio app,

1367
01:09:19,320 --> 01:09:21,439
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or where you listen to your favorite shows,