WEBVTT - Bengals Booth Podcast: New Day Rising 0:00:03.720 --> 0:00:06.480 I get everybody on Dan Horde and thanks for downloading 0:00:06.519 --> 0:00:15.200 the Bengals Booth podcast. The I'm a New Day Rising addition, 0:00:15.520 --> 0:00:18.759 as I discussed the Bengals key offseason storylines with the 0:00:18.880 --> 0:00:22.759 great Greg co Sell from NFL Films. What will a 0:00:22.840 --> 0:00:26.360 Joe Burrow contract extension mean to the overall roster? Which 0:00:26.360 --> 0:00:29.960 of the starting defensive free agents does Greg think it's 0:00:30.000 --> 0:00:34.240 most important to resign. We'll cover those topics and many more. 0:00:34.720 --> 0:00:38.360 Then it's the second edition of our NFL Expert Mock 0:00:38.479 --> 0:00:42.320 draft as Pete Prisco from CBS Sports takes his turn 0:00:42.680 --> 0:00:46.600 on the Pro Football Focus mock simulator. The Bengals Booth 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:49.920 podcast is brought to you by Alta Fiber, future proof 0:00:49.920 --> 0:00:54.040 fiber Internet capable of delivering multi gigabit speeds designed to 0:00:54.080 --> 0:00:56.760 take your home, business, and community to a new level. 0:00:57.040 --> 0:01:01.000 Elevate your connection with Alta Fiber. Now here's a quick 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:03.720 reminder that you can have the latest edition of this 0:01:03.760 --> 0:01:07.399 podcast delivered right to your phone, tablet, or computer by 0:01:07.440 --> 0:01:11.600 subscribing wherever you get your podcasts. It's the greatest thing 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:17.640 since Syracuse basketball coach Jim Beheim. After forty seven years 0:01:17.640 --> 0:01:20.600 as the head coach at his and my alma mater. 0:01:21.080 --> 0:01:24.000 Jim Beheim's Hall of Fame career ended on Wednesday with 0:01:24.040 --> 0:01:27.560 a loss to Wake Forest in the ACC Tournament. My 0:01:27.680 --> 0:01:30.479 freshman year at the Accuse was his sixth year as 0:01:30.520 --> 0:01:33.240 the head coach. The Carrier Dome and the Big East 0:01:33.400 --> 0:01:36.600 were basically new, and between my four years as a 0:01:36.680 --> 0:01:40.559 student and ted years working in Syracuse in radio and TV, 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:45.440 I covered Coach Beheim and his teams very closely. We 0:01:45.560 --> 0:01:48.520 had a few run ins when he objected to my questions, 0:01:48.760 --> 0:01:51.040 but by and large it was a joy to cover 0:01:51.200 --> 0:01:54.880 his teams with stars like Pearl Washington, Derek Coleman, and 0:01:54.960 --> 0:01:58.600 German Douglas. And I learned a ton about basketball from 0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:03.840 watching Coach Beheim's crack and hosting his weekly radio show. Additionally, 0:02:04.200 --> 0:02:06.880 I golfed with him. We were partners in a two 0:02:06.920 --> 0:02:10.320 on two match. Imagine missing a three footer for Parr 0:02:10.600 --> 0:02:13.280 to lose a hole and hearing how and has your 0:02:13.360 --> 0:02:18.040 husband put in that Jim Beheim voice. Then there was 0:02:18.080 --> 0:02:20.440 the time I coached against him. When I was a 0:02:20.480 --> 0:02:23.720 TV sportscaster in Syracuse, I did a weekly segment called 0:02:23.840 --> 0:02:27.360 Dare Dan, where I competed against viewers in their sport 0:02:27.560 --> 0:02:31.240 game or adventure of choice. There were normal challenges like 0:02:31.440 --> 0:02:35.360 tennis and whiffleball, but I also competed against a dog 0:02:35.480 --> 0:02:39.480 at catching frisbees. I won and took on twenty seven 0:02:39.520 --> 0:02:44.440 residents of a senior citizens home in Simon says I lost. 0:02:44.639 --> 0:02:49.239 Three elderly ladies outlasted me. The segment became quite popular, 0:02:49.360 --> 0:02:52.360 and before leaving town to move to Cincinnati, I wanted 0:02:52.360 --> 0:02:56.239 the final Daredan challenge to be memorable, so I set 0:02:56.320 --> 0:02:59.040 up a basketball game where I coached a team of 0:02:59.160 --> 0:03:03.960 elementary school girls against a squad coached by Jim Beheim. 0:03:04.000 --> 0:03:05.960 If you would like to see how it turned out, 0:03:06.120 --> 0:03:08.480 or just see what I looked like with hair, you 0:03:08.520 --> 0:03:12.280 can find the segment on YouTube. Just search for Jim 0:03:12.280 --> 0:03:16.600 Beheim Dare Dan. It's the first video that will pop up. 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:21.520 Now let's get to football. Last week at the NFL Combine, 0:03:21.720 --> 0:03:24.239 I had the opportunity to sit down for an extended 0:03:24.280 --> 0:03:27.880 interview with my friend Greg Kosell from NFL Films in 0:03:27.880 --> 0:03:32.000 the NFL Matchup show on ESPN. For my money, there's 0:03:32.120 --> 0:03:35.320 nobody better at studying the coach's tape and making a 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:39.360 complex game a little bit easier to understand. Before we 0:03:39.400 --> 0:03:42.120 get to that conversation, here's a quick reminder that the 0:03:42.160 --> 0:03:45.040 Bengals Booth podcast is brought to you by Kettering Health, 0:03:45.280 --> 0:03:48.320 the official healthcare provider of the Bengals. With more than 0:03:48.360 --> 0:03:51.560 one hundred twenty care facilities and fifteen hundred care providers, 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:55.160 Kettering Health is committed to guiding you to your best health. 0:03:55.520 --> 0:04:02.120 Visit ketteringhealth dot org to learn more. Now here's Greg. Greg, 0:04:02.160 --> 0:04:04.080 you have been kind enough over the years to share 0:04:04.200 --> 0:04:06.920 some of your draft prospect evaluations with me, and I 0:04:06.960 --> 0:04:09.280 love it. I always save them and look back and 0:04:09.320 --> 0:04:12.360 it's always really revealing from me. I'm interested to know 0:04:13.320 --> 0:04:16.280 how many guys do you grade going into a draft 0:04:16.320 --> 0:04:19.200 and who do you choose. That's a great question. And 0:04:19.240 --> 0:04:21.480 I don't really grade in the way some people do. 0:04:21.600 --> 0:04:23.160 You know. I don't work for a team, so I 0:04:23.200 --> 0:04:26.440 don't have a grading chart. I just like the process 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:29.679 of evaluating players. So when I watch a player, obviously 0:04:29.680 --> 0:04:32.680 you always start with their traits and their attributes and 0:04:32.720 --> 0:04:35.880 their characteristics, and then I think in terms of deployment 0:04:35.880 --> 0:04:38.599 within the NFL, because ultimately that dan is what the 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:41.719 process is. You're looking to transition and project players to 0:04:41.800 --> 0:04:45.039 the league. Some guys traits are obvious. We are pretty 0:04:45.120 --> 0:04:47.840 much anybody can see the traits. Other guys traits are 0:04:47.880 --> 0:04:50.719 not as obvious. But that doesn't mean they can't play. 0:04:50.920 --> 0:04:52.320 You know, I went through a whole learning curve and 0:04:52.440 --> 0:04:55.800 I started watching college players years and years ago. I 0:04:55.839 --> 0:04:57.839 got caught up in hey, he's either great or he 0:04:57.920 --> 0:05:00.560 can't play. And then I realized I was wrong. A 0:05:00.600 --> 0:05:03.520 lot of guys play, and particularly on defense, as you know, 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:06.640 you know, there's so many sub packages. Teams could play 0:05:06.640 --> 0:05:09.880 seventeen eighteen nineteen guys on defense every single week, and 0:05:09.960 --> 0:05:12.400 a guy could play twelve snaps, but those are twelve 0:05:12.400 --> 0:05:14.839 really important snaps. And you know, he may not be 0:05:14.880 --> 0:05:16.559 an All Pro, he may not be a Hall of Famer, 0:05:16.600 --> 0:05:17.960 but he's going to play in the league for ten 0:05:18.040 --> 0:05:21.080 years and be an important part of a defense. And 0:05:21.120 --> 0:05:24.120 so I had to really learn the process of evaluating 0:05:24.160 --> 0:05:27.720 players because there's not many and there's very few quite 0:05:27.760 --> 0:05:30.440 honestly transcendent players in any draft where you just say 0:05:30.480 --> 0:05:32.400 that guy's great, he can do anything, he can play 0:05:32.400 --> 0:05:34.680 in any system. You know, put him out there, he's great. 0:05:36.120 --> 0:05:38.680 But the way I actually starts guys who do this 0:05:38.760 --> 0:05:41.080 all year round, the Dane Bruglers of the world, people 0:05:41.120 --> 0:05:43.960 like that. I start with, you know, Daniel Teremiah. I 0:05:44.040 --> 0:05:45.800 kind of look at their lists and then when the 0:05:45.839 --> 0:05:49.040 combine comes out, and unfortunately, because I'm a one man 0:05:49.120 --> 0:05:51.680 scouting service, I can't do four hundred guys. But then 0:05:51.680 --> 0:05:53.920 when the combine list comes out, I try to work 0:05:53.920 --> 0:05:56.000 off that as well. But that's kind of how I 0:05:56.080 --> 0:06:00.159 do it. And it gets very frustrating Dan, because I 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:02.440 want to do so many more guys, but you know, 0:06:02.520 --> 0:06:04.760 I'm only one person, and there's so many only so 0:06:04.839 --> 0:06:07.520 many hours in the day. And defensive guys are the 0:06:07.600 --> 0:06:10.920 toughest from a process standpoint, because you have to watch 0:06:10.960 --> 0:06:13.680 full games for defensive guys because you have to see 0:06:13.680 --> 0:06:16.159 the plays you know that they don't make. You know, 0:06:16.240 --> 0:06:19.280 particularly let's say corners or safeties. You know, you can 0:06:19.279 --> 0:06:21.799 watch a safety in college football who's a back end safety, 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:23.320 and you can go through a whole game and he 0:06:23.360 --> 0:06:25.920 really doesn't do a lot, depending on the offense in 0:06:25.920 --> 0:06:28.120 which he's playing against. So you have to just sit 0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:30.760 and grind and watch full games. And because of where 0:06:30.760 --> 0:06:33.159 I work NFL films, I have access to all the 0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:36.520 coaching tapes. So I'm seeing the coaching tape, but it's 0:06:36.560 --> 0:06:39.800 a process and it takes time. I always run into 0:06:39.839 --> 0:06:42.520 you in Indianapolis at the Combine every year, and obviously 0:06:42.560 --> 0:06:44.919 you're here. You're you're studying the players, you're listening to 0:06:44.960 --> 0:06:48.200 the interviews, you're seeing how they do in the various tests. 0:06:48.600 --> 0:06:51.120 But you also shared with me that you met with 0:06:51.560 --> 0:06:55.120 some friends on an NFL coaching staff yesterday. Is the 0:06:55.200 --> 0:07:00.000 Combine important for you in terms of interacting with important 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:02.200 people around the league? You know, I think that's the 0:07:02.240 --> 0:07:04.080 way I learned Dan. You know, I'm a big believer 0:07:04.200 --> 0:07:07.080 that you never stop learning. You know, I think most 0:07:07.080 --> 0:07:08.800 people who know my work would say, you know, I'm 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:11.560 pretty good at it, but I always feel that there's 0:07:11.600 --> 0:07:13.520 so many things I don't know that I want to 0:07:13.600 --> 0:07:16.840 keep learning. You know, I view this because I didn't 0:07:16.880 --> 0:07:18.800 play football. I grew up in Queens in New York. 0:07:18.840 --> 0:07:21.120 I played basketball and baseball. My high school did not 0:07:21.160 --> 0:07:23.800 have a football team, so I had to learn football 0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:25.960 when we started with the coaching tape in NFL Films 0:07:25.960 --> 0:07:28.280 in nineteen ninety two. And to me, it's more of 0:07:28.320 --> 0:07:32.480 an intellectual and academic exercise and I feel you always 0:07:32.480 --> 0:07:35.080 have to keep learning, and there are certain positions like 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:38.600 offensive line. I don't fancy myself as an offensive line 0:07:38.640 --> 0:07:41.000 guru by any means. And what I love trying to 0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:44.160 find out from coaches is things when I watch tape, 0:07:44.200 --> 0:07:47.280 what do they see as coachable? What's not coachable? Because 0:07:47.280 --> 0:07:49.200 I don't know the answer to that right off the 0:07:49.240 --> 0:07:51.160 top of my head. You know, I've been fortunate in 0:07:51.200 --> 0:07:55.840 my career to be around, you know, great quarterback people. 0:07:55.840 --> 0:07:58.600 I learned the quarterback position from Bill Walsh, so you 0:07:58.640 --> 0:08:00.440 know that was a pretty good starting point for me. 0:08:00.720 --> 0:08:03.480 But offensive line, you know, I try to find out 0:08:03.640 --> 0:08:06.440 from coaches, Hey, how did they go about evaluating? What 0:08:06.560 --> 0:08:08.400 can they coach? You know, if a guy has a 0:08:08.440 --> 0:08:10.360 certain flaw, they may say to me, oh, I can 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:12.560 correct that in two weeks. You know, I need to 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:15.560 learn and understand all that. I want to learn more about, 0:08:16.040 --> 0:08:18.880 you know, even with NFL material, not just college guys. 0:08:19.160 --> 0:08:22.240 I want to learn more about how offensives are installed 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:24.480 and how they're put in, and what they ask quarterbacks 0:08:24.520 --> 0:08:27.160 to do, how they ask them to go through reading progressions. 0:08:27.400 --> 0:08:30.480 You know, is some teams have it. Hey, if here's 0:08:31.080 --> 0:08:33.320 our zone, routes are on this side of the offense 0:08:33.360 --> 0:08:35.120 and our man routes are on the other side. Some 0:08:35.160 --> 0:08:37.040 teams don't do it that way. I just try to 0:08:37.120 --> 0:08:39.280 keep learning more and more because then when I go 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:42.359 back and watch tape, I have a greater foundation of knowledge. 0:08:42.840 --> 0:08:45.199 We're visiting with great co sell from NFL Films and 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:48.719 the NFL Matchup show on ESPN. I think you were 0:08:48.760 --> 0:08:51.240 one of the first to really study the tape and 0:08:51.280 --> 0:08:55.199 then communicate your observations to those of us who are, 0:08:55.520 --> 0:08:58.120 you know, always trying to learn more about football. Now 0:08:58.160 --> 0:09:01.040 there seems to be a big industry to these guys 0:09:01.040 --> 0:09:03.840 that are coming up and doing it kind of you know, 0:09:03.880 --> 0:09:06.760 approach you and say, hey, you know, you're the godfather, 0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:10.520 thank you for kind of creating this this path. You know, 0:09:11.600 --> 0:09:13.280 it's funny you say that I'm not very good about 0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:15.440 talking about myself. If when I played sports, I was 0:09:15.440 --> 0:09:17.400 one of those guys that just showed up and you 0:09:17.400 --> 0:09:19.440 know played, you know I didn't. It wasn't a look 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:22.160 at me thing. But no, that that does happen. You know, 0:09:22.280 --> 0:09:24.440 people come to me and say you're the og. You know, 0:09:24.520 --> 0:09:27.240 you know, and and you know in some ways I 0:09:27.280 --> 0:09:30.360 appreciate that. Look the reality is. And Peter King actually 0:09:30.360 --> 0:09:31.599 came up to me a few years ago as the 0:09:31.679 --> 0:09:33.839 year before the pandemic, we were both at Eagles training 0:09:33.840 --> 0:09:36.080 camp on the same day, and he said, you know, 0:09:36.160 --> 0:09:38.400 basically said, do you realize that you started an entire 0:09:38.440 --> 0:09:40.520 industry and an entire genre? And you know, I don't. 0:09:40.559 --> 0:09:42.320 I don't think of it that way. But you know, 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:44.280 we started with the Matchup show in the mid eighties 0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:47.480 and it's been on every year since. And obviously at 0:09:47.480 --> 0:09:50.520 that time people said, oh, no, one's going to care 0:09:50.520 --> 0:09:54.280 about football like that. And fortunately, thanks to Steve Sable, 0:09:54.320 --> 0:09:56.720 who was my mentor and my boss, you know, we 0:09:56.840 --> 0:09:58.640 just kept doing it and doing it and doing it. 0:09:58.640 --> 0:10:00.199 And I'm sure if I look back at some those 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:03.400 early shows, I'd probably have a combination of cringing and laughing, 0:10:03.720 --> 0:10:06.960 you know. But but you know, we were fortunately able 0:10:07.000 --> 0:10:08.920 to stay with it, and it's grown and grown and 0:10:09.000 --> 0:10:12.960 grown and now but fans want this. This is what 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:15.560 people crave because you're can look at you can grab 0:10:15.640 --> 0:10:18.240 your phone and find stats now. You know, obviously thirty 0:10:18.280 --> 0:10:20.440 years ago you couldn't do that because phones didn't exist. 0:10:20.559 --> 0:10:22.320 But now you can find any stat you want in 0:10:22.360 --> 0:10:26.480 a heartbeat, but you still can't see breakdowns of footage. 0:10:26.559 --> 0:10:28.800 And more and more people are doing it. Obviously, as 0:10:28.800 --> 0:10:32.600 in any industry, some do it better than others. But yeah, 0:10:32.640 --> 0:10:34.719 I guess maybe I did start something. You know, I 0:10:34.720 --> 0:10:36.720 don't like I said. I don't wake up every morning 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:38.880 and say, man, I started something and that's great. I 0:10:38.920 --> 0:10:41.200 just go do my job. But you know, when people 0:10:41.240 --> 0:10:43.520 bring it to my attention, as you just did, I 0:10:43.559 --> 0:10:46.079 guess that's probably true because we start the first year 0:10:46.080 --> 0:10:49.120 of the Matchup show is nineteen eighty four, first and 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:51.600 still the best in my opinion. Let's hit on some 0:10:51.640 --> 0:10:55.080 Bengals topics. The biggest offseason story in Cincinnati is Joe 0:10:55.080 --> 0:10:58.480 Burrows contract. He's likely to make more than fifty million 0:10:58.520 --> 0:11:01.120 dollars a year when they get this. How much does 0:11:01.160 --> 0:11:05.880 that change roster construction for Cincinnati? Well, I think it 0:11:05.920 --> 0:11:07.760 always changes it a little bit. We know that the 0:11:07.800 --> 0:11:11.400 salary cap has gone up significantly. It doesn't appear as 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:14.240 if it would be going down at anytime soon based 0:11:14.280 --> 0:11:16.760 on the popularity of the NFL, which is good for 0:11:16.800 --> 0:11:20.160 all of us. But then you do have some decisions 0:11:20.160 --> 0:11:22.240 to make. Obviously, Joe Burrow is going to get signed 0:11:22.240 --> 0:11:24.160 and more than likely he's going to get signed and 0:11:24.480 --> 0:11:26.600 maybe more than any other quarterback has been signed for 0:11:26.679 --> 0:11:28.280 And you know what, that's just the way it is. 0:11:28.400 --> 0:11:30.240 You're not letting him walk. You're not trying to get 0:11:30.600 --> 0:11:33.480 into a contentious relationship with Joe Burrow and his agents. 0:11:33.840 --> 0:11:36.360 He's a great, great quarterback. I mean, I remember that 0:11:36.440 --> 0:11:37.880 was the you know, the year I gave you my 0:11:37.920 --> 0:11:40.520 report on Joe Burrow, and you know pretty much played 0:11:40.520 --> 0:11:43.040 out that way. And you know, it's fascinating just talking 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:45.719 about Burrow and other quarterbacks in the draft. And I 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:47.120 don't know if you if you and I have had 0:11:47.120 --> 0:11:50.880 this conversation before, but you know, now we hear so 0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:54.280 many draft analysts say, well, he's got great traits, and 0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:56.680 they say that about a player because he can throw 0:11:56.679 --> 0:11:59.880 it hard and run fast. And to me, that's not 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:02.920 what makes that. Those are not great quarterback traits. I 0:12:03.000 --> 0:12:04.679 look at Joe Burrow, and I'm sure if you went 0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:06.440 back and looked at my report, you'd see what I 0:12:06.480 --> 0:12:10.280 did other than being a power thrower. To me, Joe 0:12:10.320 --> 0:12:13.760 Burrow has quarterback traits because quarterback to me, and like 0:12:13.840 --> 0:12:15.439 I said, I was fortunate to learn from the Bill 0:12:15.480 --> 0:12:19.559 Walsters of the world. Quarterback to me is a refined, nuanced, subtle, 0:12:20.320 --> 0:12:23.040 discipline craft position. It's not who can throw at the 0:12:23.040 --> 0:12:25.720 hardest and who can run the fastest. Look, if you 0:12:25.800 --> 0:12:28.439 really have all those subtle and refined traits and you've 0:12:28.440 --> 0:12:31.000 got a big arm, that's great. And in fact, i'll 0:12:31.000 --> 0:12:33.040 give you a great example of a guy you'll remember 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:35.760 very well because it's Incinnati. Carson Palmer was like that. 0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:37.960 He had the subtle traits, but he also had the 0:12:37.960 --> 0:12:40.600 big arm. Troy Aikman was like that, there's not many 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:44.160 guys who have who are power throwers and have refined traits. 0:12:45.320 --> 0:12:48.720 Joe Burrow has all the refined traits you want, both 0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:52.000 physically and mentally. The only thing he's probably lacking, but 0:12:52.080 --> 0:12:54.960 it's not a major lack, would be a power arm. 0:12:55.600 --> 0:12:58.679 But that, to me, he has quarterback traits, you know, 0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:01.360 And that's to me the reason he's such a great 0:13:01.360 --> 0:13:04.800 great player. He sees things, you know. Burrow really plays 0:13:04.840 --> 0:13:07.320 the game before the snap of the ball, and I 0:13:07.360 --> 0:13:09.800 think you have to reach that point. Can you be 0:13:09.880 --> 0:13:13.880 a great quarterback without doing that to some degree? Like, 0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:16.520 for instance, I think Josh Allen is still learning that 0:13:16.760 --> 0:13:20.120 to some degree, but he's so physically gifted that he 0:13:20.160 --> 0:13:23.680 can do things other guys can't. Joe Burrow sees the 0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:26.200 game before the snap of the ball and he just 0:13:26.320 --> 0:13:30.800 validates and confirms, and that's why he can play with 0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:34.040 such a refined sense of timing and rhythm. The ball 0:13:34.080 --> 0:13:36.800 comes out, he knows where to go. He's not figuring 0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:39.520 out the defense on his drop. He sees it. He 0:13:39.559 --> 0:13:42.520 knows it. And you know this, you know probably better 0:13:42.520 --> 0:13:45.000 than I do. You're around him, but you know, watching tape, 0:13:45.040 --> 0:13:48.240 that's to me. Those are high, high level quarterback traits. 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:52.000 Is there anything about Burrow that's even better than you 0:13:52.040 --> 0:13:58.240 thought it would be? You know, I would probably say no, 0:13:58.400 --> 0:14:01.360 and and not that him smarter than anybody else, But 0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:03.640 I just thought Burrow was one of those guys that 0:14:03.800 --> 0:14:06.839 really like Even the next year when Trevor Lawrence came 0:14:06.840 --> 0:14:09.680 out and people talked about him as a generational quarterback, 0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:12.720 I thought Joe Burrow coming out was a better prospect 0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:15.760 than Trevor Lawrence. And actually I spoken to some coaches 0:14:15.760 --> 0:14:19.920 who agree as well. So no, Burrow is Burrow is 0:14:19.960 --> 0:14:23.680 no surprise to me. Maybe the only thing, but it's 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:26.960 not really a surprise is his ability to make some 0:14:27.040 --> 0:14:28.880 plays with his legs. I knew he had really good 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:32.000 pocket movement, but we've seen him when it's third and seven. 0:14:32.000 --> 0:14:33.560 He can run for nine and get a first down, 0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:35.400 no problem. You know he's not going to run for 0:14:35.480 --> 0:14:38.480 thirty five. You know, he's not Mahomes in that sense, 0:14:38.880 --> 0:14:43.560 but he does have a feel for Hey, when when 0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:45.480 I have to get nine when it's third and seven 0:14:45.560 --> 0:14:48.800 or third and eight. So Duke Tobin made news early 0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:51.600 this week, at least in Cincinnati, when he squashed rumors 0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:55.200 that the Bengals were considering peddling T Higgins because of, 0:14:55.520 --> 0:14:57.840 you know, his contract situation. What do you think of T? 0:14:59.200 --> 0:15:01.480 I really like T Higgins. I loved him when he 0:15:01.520 --> 0:15:04.840 came out of Clemson. You know, it's so funny. We 0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:07.600 get caught up again with receivers in forty times, and 0:15:07.640 --> 0:15:09.240 I think he ran a four or five seven or 0:15:09.320 --> 0:15:12.000 four or five eight, But he's sixty three two sixteen 0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:14.840 and one thing I learned. There's another thing I had 0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:20.120 to learn over the years is tall receivers. Stride length 0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:23.120 is a trait. Okay, you know when I first started 0:15:23.120 --> 0:15:24.800 with tall receivers, i'd watched him and say, oh, they 0:15:24.800 --> 0:15:26.760 don't look that fast. They're they're not going to be 0:15:26.800 --> 0:15:29.560 a vertical dimension. And I ended up being wrong on guys, 0:15:29.880 --> 0:15:32.480 and t Higgins is like that. He's not a burner, 0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:36.280 but those strides allow him to be a vertical dimension. 0:15:36.280 --> 0:15:39.080 Plus then you have the body control in the hands aspect, 0:15:39.120 --> 0:15:41.640 and his ability to high point the ball. So even 0:15:41.640 --> 0:15:44.520 though he may not run by corners in a strict sense, 0:15:45.840 --> 0:15:48.640 he is a vertical dimension in addition to being very 0:15:48.680 --> 0:15:51.480 good on the immediate routes catching the ball in those inbreakers. 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:54.360 I think te Higgins and you know, I hate to 0:15:54.400 --> 0:15:56.600 categorize guys, Oh he's a one, he's a two, But 0:15:56.680 --> 0:16:00.800 I think te Higgins on another team would be considered Obviously, 0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:03.840 Jamar Chase is a true alpha, and there's no alpha's 0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:06.120 in this draft, by the way, at wide receiver, No 0:16:06.280 --> 0:16:09.200 Jamar Chases. But Jamar Chase is a true alpha. So 0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:11.640 Higgins sort of. I don't want to say play second fiddle. 0:16:11.680 --> 0:16:14.080 I'm sure he doesn't in the Cincinnati offense, but he's 0:16:14.120 --> 0:16:16.720 not considered that because of Chase. But I think if 0:16:16.720 --> 0:16:19.480 he wore with another team, and I'm hoping he's not 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:21.720 I mean, I'm sure Cincinnati fans are hoping the same, 0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:24.080 but I think if he was with another team, he 0:16:24.200 --> 0:16:27.040 would be in number one. But I always liked him. 0:16:27.040 --> 0:16:29.440 I really liked him coming out, and I think we've seen, 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:31.280 you know, what he can do, and since the look, 0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:34.800 he's puts up a thousand yards as although I remember, 0:16:34.960 --> 0:16:38.160 you know, I remember doing his study last summer, and 0:16:38.200 --> 0:16:40.880 I'm trying to remember specifically. I watched both Chase and 0:16:40.960 --> 0:16:45.800 Higgins separately, and if I'm not mistaken, I can't remember 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:48.200 whether it was first down or third down, but the 0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:52.120 East had the equal number of targets on a particular down, 0:16:52.360 --> 0:16:54.320 so that you know they throw it to t It's 0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:57.080 not like it's Chase and everybody else. You know, Higgins 0:16:57.160 --> 0:17:00.240 is a major part of what they do in the offense, well, 0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:04.520 especially considering what defenses due to try to take away Chase. Yeah, 0:17:04.520 --> 0:17:07.280 they are clearly times watching tape where you see defenses 0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:11.480 bracket Chase. Sometimes they even Brackett both. I remember this 0:17:11.520 --> 0:17:14.000 was two years ago. You may remember the play. It 0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:16.760 just popped into my head against Baltimore, and I think 0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:19.159 Higgins caught about a forty five fifty yard on a 0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:23.240 vertical route where the Ravens actually doubled all three wide 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:25.840 outs to happen to remember a triple double? Yeah, do 0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:30.119 you remember the play? And Burrow threw it to Higgins 0:17:30.160 --> 0:17:32.199 on a vertical route on the left side, and it 0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:34.679 went for about forty five fifty yards and Higgins went 0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:36.840 up and got it between two guys. You know. So 0:17:36.880 --> 0:17:41.040 there was a case where Baltimore doubled all three wide receivers. Right. 0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:43.680 The Bengals jokingly refer to that as the triple double. 0:17:43.680 --> 0:17:46.119 It's a basketball term, but it definitely applied to the 0:17:46.160 --> 0:17:49.000 defense there. Let's talk tight ends. The Bengals top three 0:17:49.040 --> 0:17:52.840 tight ends, Hayden Hurst, Drew Sample, Mitch Wilcox are all 0:17:52.880 --> 0:17:56.440 free agents. Somebody's going to be back, but in any case, 0:17:56.640 --> 0:17:58.080 but it's not going to be a big money thing. 0:17:58.240 --> 0:18:00.000 It's not a tight end you're going to say, is they? 0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:02.520 So I'm sure they're looking for a tight end in 0:18:02.520 --> 0:18:04.280 this draft. There are some good ones. I haven't done 0:18:04.560 --> 0:18:07.080 enough work yet, but I've done Kincaid, who is not 0:18:07.160 --> 0:18:09.080 going to work out at the combine I saw, but 0:18:09.200 --> 0:18:13.480 he's really a good receiver. He's one of those maybe 0:18:13.520 --> 0:18:16.240 new breed type tight ends. He's more of a detached player, 0:18:17.760 --> 0:18:19.840 but he's really athletic. I don't want to sit here, 0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:23.080 and says Travis Kelcey. But he can be deployed in 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:25.679 the same way, meaning that you can detach him from 0:18:25.720 --> 0:18:28.159 the formation. He can be your boundary X on the 0:18:28.200 --> 0:18:30.600 backside of trips. He can be deployed in a very 0:18:30.640 --> 0:18:34.200 similar manner. He's got great hands, he's a really good athlete, 0:18:34.240 --> 0:18:36.399 and he gives you run after catch. I guess it 0:18:36.440 --> 0:18:40.800 all depends on, you know, what the Bengals value. You know, 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:44.159 obviously they draft later in the first round. I'm not 0:18:44.240 --> 0:18:47.960 good at saying where guys will go. Could Kincaid be there, sure? 0:18:48.240 --> 0:18:51.439 And maybe not, you know, but there are others, you know. 0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:53.240 Like I said, I haven't done them yet, so I 0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:55.840 can't speak to their specific trades. But I've been told 0:18:55.920 --> 0:18:59.400 Musgrave is a really good prospect. I'm trying to think 0:18:59.400 --> 0:19:02.000 of some of the other Michael Mayer. Michael Mayer, I've 0:19:02.000 --> 0:19:04.440 done him. I have done him. To me, Mayor is 0:19:04.480 --> 0:19:08.520 just a really solid tight end, really good hands, catches everything. 0:19:08.720 --> 0:19:11.600 Not as explosive as Kincaid. I think Mayor is just 0:19:11.600 --> 0:19:13.919 one of those guys that would be a solid NFL 0:19:14.000 --> 0:19:16.479 tight end like I wouldn't if you wanted to. Obviously 0:19:16.480 --> 0:19:19.440 we always talk about Kelsey, but like I don't think 0:19:19.480 --> 0:19:21.879 may Or for instances as athletic and as good receiver, 0:19:21.960 --> 0:19:24.280 someone like Dallas Goddard. You know, I don't think he's 0:19:24.320 --> 0:19:26.280 quite that guy, but I think he'd be a really 0:19:26.480 --> 0:19:29.800 solid every down tight end. It's great to have a 0:19:29.880 --> 0:19:31.960 great tight end. The Bengals obviously would like to. But 0:19:32.000 --> 0:19:35.159 how important is tight end in that offense? Well, the 0:19:35.200 --> 0:19:38.120 way they run it now, and they're as you know, 0:19:38.359 --> 0:19:42.080 they're a heavy eleven personnel offense. I mean, I just 0:19:42.080 --> 0:19:45.560 so people understand that means three wide receivers. I think, 0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:48.240 if I remember correctly, they probably played out of eleven 0:19:48.320 --> 0:19:51.920 personnel eighty five percent or more of their offensive snaps. 0:19:52.320 --> 0:19:55.359 So that's who they are. So the tight end, the 0:19:55.359 --> 0:19:58.080 way they play now, assuming all three receivers are still there, 0:20:00.800 --> 0:20:04.440