Speaker 1: I get everybody on Dan Horde and thanks for downloading
Speaker 1: the Bengals Booth podcast. The I'm a New Day Rising addition,
Speaker 1: as I discussed the Bengals key offseason storylines with the
Speaker 1: great Greg co Sell from NFL Films. What will a
Speaker 1: Joe Burrow contract extension mean to the overall roster? Which
Speaker 1: of the starting defensive free agents does Greg think it's
Speaker 1: most important to resign. We'll cover those topics and many more.
Speaker 1: Then it's the second edition of our NFL Expert Mock
Speaker 1: draft as Pete Prisco from CBS Sports takes his turn
Speaker 1: on the Pro Football Focus mock simulator. The Bengals Booth
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Speaker 1: reminder that you can have the latest edition of this
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Speaker 1: subscribing wherever you get your podcasts. It's the greatest thing
Speaker 1: since Syracuse basketball coach Jim Beheim. After forty seven years
Speaker 1: as the head coach at his and my alma mater.
Speaker 1: Jim Beheim's Hall of Fame career ended on Wednesday with
Speaker 1: a loss to Wake Forest in the ACC Tournament. My
Speaker 1: freshman year at the Accuse was his sixth year as
Speaker 1: the head coach. The Carrier Dome and the Big East
Speaker 1: were basically new, and between my four years as a
Speaker 1: student and ted years working in Syracuse in radio and TV,
Speaker 1: I covered Coach Beheim and his teams very closely. We
Speaker 1: had a few run ins when he objected to my questions,
Speaker 1: but by and large it was a joy to cover
Speaker 1: his teams with stars like Pearl Washington, Derek Coleman, and
Speaker 1: German Douglas. And I learned a ton about basketball from
Speaker 1: watching Coach Beheim's crack and hosting his weekly radio show. Additionally,
Speaker 1: I golfed with him. We were partners in a two
Speaker 1: on two match. Imagine missing a three footer for Parr
Speaker 1: to lose a hole and hearing how and has your
Speaker 1: husband put in that Jim Beheim voice. Then there was
Speaker 1: the time I coached against him. When I was a
Speaker 1: TV sportscaster in Syracuse, I did a weekly segment called
Speaker 1: Dare Dan, where I competed against viewers in their sport
Speaker 1: game or adventure of choice. There were normal challenges like
Speaker 1: tennis and whiffleball, but I also competed against a dog
Speaker 1: at catching frisbees. I won and took on twenty seven
Speaker 1: residents of a senior citizens home in Simon says I lost.
Speaker 1: Three elderly ladies outlasted me. The segment became quite popular,
Speaker 1: and before leaving town to move to Cincinnati, I wanted
Speaker 1: the final Daredan challenge to be memorable, so I set
Speaker 1: up a basketball game where I coached a team of
Speaker 1: elementary school girls against a squad coached by Jim Beheim.
Speaker 1: If you would like to see how it turned out,
Speaker 1: or just see what I looked like with hair, you
Speaker 1: can find the segment on YouTube. Just search for Jim
Speaker 1: Beheim Dare Dan. It's the first video that will pop up.
Speaker 1: Now let's get to football. Last week at the NFL Combine,
Speaker 1: I had the opportunity to sit down for an extended
Speaker 1: interview with my friend Greg Kosell from NFL Films in
Speaker 1: the NFL Matchup show on ESPN. For my money, there's
Speaker 1: nobody better at studying the coach's tape and making a
Speaker 1: complex game a little bit easier to understand. Before we
Speaker 1: get to that conversation, here's a quick reminder that the
Speaker 1: Bengals Booth podcast is brought to you by Kettering Health,
Speaker 1: the official healthcare provider of the Bengals. With more than
Speaker 1: one hundred twenty care facilities and fifteen hundred care providers,
Speaker 1: Kettering Health is committed to guiding you to your best health.
Speaker 1: Visit ketteringhealth dot org to learn more. Now here's Greg. Greg,
Speaker 1: you have been kind enough over the years to share
Speaker 1: some of your draft prospect evaluations with me, and I
Speaker 1: love it. I always save them and look back and
Speaker 1: it's always really revealing from me. I'm interested to know
Speaker 1: how many guys do you grade going into a draft
Speaker 1: and who do you choose. That's a great question. And
Speaker 1: I don't really grade in the way some people do.
Speaker 1: You know. I don't work for a team, so I
Speaker 1: don't have a grading chart. I just like the process
Speaker 1: of evaluating players. So when I watch a player, obviously
Speaker 1: you always start with their traits and their attributes and
Speaker 1: their characteristics, and then I think in terms of deployment
Speaker 1: within the NFL, because ultimately that dan is what the
Speaker 1: process is. You're looking to transition and project players to
Speaker 1: the league. Some guys traits are obvious. We are pretty
Speaker 1: much anybody can see the traits. Other guys traits are
Speaker 1: not as obvious. But that doesn't mean they can't play.
Speaker 1: You know, I went through a whole learning curve and
Speaker 1: I started watching college players years and years ago. I
Speaker 1: got caught up in hey, he's either great or he
Speaker 1: can't play. And then I realized I was wrong. A
Speaker 1: lot of guys play, and particularly on defense, as you know,
Speaker 1: you know, there's so many sub packages. Teams could play
Speaker 1: seventeen eighteen nineteen guys on defense every single week, and
Speaker 1: a guy could play twelve snaps, but those are twelve
Speaker 1: really important snaps. And you know, he may not be
Speaker 1: an All Pro, he may not be a Hall of Famer,
Speaker 1: but he's going to play in the league for ten
Speaker 1: years and be an important part of a defense. And
Speaker 1: so I had to really learn the process of evaluating
Speaker 1: players because there's not many and there's very few quite
Speaker 1: honestly transcendent players in any draft where you just say
Speaker 1: that guy's great, he can do anything, he can play
Speaker 1: in any system. You know, put him out there, he's great.
Speaker 1: But the way I actually starts guys who do this
Speaker 1: all year round, the Dane Bruglers of the world, people
Speaker 1: like that. I start with, you know, Daniel Teremiah. I
Speaker 1: kind of look at their lists and then when the
Speaker 1: combine comes out, and unfortunately, because I'm a one man
Speaker 1: scouting service, I can't do four hundred guys. But then
Speaker 1: when the combine list comes out, I try to work
Speaker 1: off that as well. But that's kind of how I
Speaker 1: do it. And it gets very frustrating Dan, because I
Speaker 1: want to do so many more guys, but you know,
Speaker 1: I'm only one person, and there's so many only so
Speaker 1: many hours in the day. And defensive guys are the
Speaker 1: toughest from a process standpoint, because you have to watch
Speaker 1: full games for defensive guys because you have to see
Speaker 1: the plays you know that they don't make. You know,
Speaker 1: particularly let's say corners or safeties. You know, you can
Speaker 1: watch a safety in college football who's a back end safety,
Speaker 1: and you can go through a whole game and he
Speaker 1: really doesn't do a lot, depending on the offense in
Speaker 1: which he's playing against. So you have to just sit
Speaker 1: and grind and watch full games. And because of where
Speaker 1: I work NFL films, I have access to all the
Speaker 1: coaching tapes. So I'm seeing the coaching tape, but it's
Speaker 1: a process and it takes time. I always run into
Speaker 1: you in Indianapolis at the Combine every year, and obviously
Speaker 1: you're here. You're you're studying the players, you're listening to
Speaker 1: the interviews, you're seeing how they do in the various tests.
Speaker 1: But you also shared with me that you met with
Speaker 1: some friends on an NFL coaching staff yesterday. Is the
Speaker 1: Combine important for you in terms of interacting with important
Speaker 1: people around the league? You know, I think that's the
Speaker 1: way I learned Dan. You know, I'm a big believer
Speaker 1: that you never stop learning. You know, I think most
Speaker 1: people who know my work would say, you know, I'm
Speaker 1: pretty good at it, but I always feel that there's
Speaker 1: so many things I don't know that I want to
Speaker 1: keep learning. You know, I view this because I didn't
Speaker 1: play football. I grew up in Queens in New York.
Speaker 1: I played basketball and baseball. My high school did not
Speaker 1: have a football team, so I had to learn football
Speaker 1: when we started with the coaching tape in NFL Films
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety two. And to me, it's more of
Speaker 1: an intellectual and academic exercise and I feel you always
Speaker 1: have to keep learning, and there are certain positions like
Speaker 1: offensive line. I don't fancy myself as an offensive line
Speaker 1: guru by any means. And what I love trying to
Speaker 1: find out from coaches is things when I watch tape,
Speaker 1: what do they see as coachable? What's not coachable? Because
Speaker 1: I don't know the answer to that right off the
Speaker 1: top of my head. You know, I've been fortunate in
Speaker 1: my career to be around, you know, great quarterback people.
Speaker 1: I learned the quarterback position from Bill Walsh, so you
Speaker 1: know that was a pretty good starting point for me.
Speaker 1: But offensive line, you know, I try to find out
Speaker 1: from coaches, Hey, how did they go about evaluating? What
Speaker 1: can they coach? You know, if a guy has a
Speaker 1: certain flaw, they may say to me, oh, I can
Speaker 1: correct that in two weeks. You know, I need to
Speaker 1: learn and understand all that. I want to learn more about,
Speaker 1: you know, even with NFL material, not just college guys.
Speaker 1: I want to learn more about how offensives are installed
Speaker 1: and how they're put in, and what they ask quarterbacks
Speaker 1: to do, how they ask them to go through reading progressions.
Speaker 1: You know, is some teams have it. Hey, if here's
Speaker 1: our zone, routes are on this side of the offense
Speaker 1: and our man routes are on the other side. Some
Speaker 1: teams don't do it that way. I just try to
Speaker 1: keep learning more and more because then when I go
Speaker 1: back and watch tape, I have a greater foundation of knowledge.
Speaker 1: We're visiting with great co sell from NFL Films and
Speaker 1: the NFL Matchup show on ESPN. I think you were
Speaker 1: one of the first to really study the tape and
Speaker 1: then communicate your observations to those of us who are,
Speaker 1: you know, always trying to learn more about football. Now
Speaker 1: there seems to be a big industry to these guys
Speaker 1: that are coming up and doing it kind of you know,
Speaker 1: approach you and say, hey, you know, you're the godfather,
Speaker 1: thank you for kind of creating this this path. You know,
Speaker 1: it's funny you say that I'm not very good about
Speaker 1: talking about myself. If when I played sports, I was
Speaker 1: one of those guys that just showed up and you
Speaker 1: know played, you know I didn't. It wasn't a look
Speaker 1: at me thing. But no, that that does happen. You know,
Speaker 1: people come to me and say you're the og. You know,
Speaker 1: you know, and and you know in some ways I
Speaker 1: appreciate that. Look the reality is. And Peter King actually
Speaker 1: came up to me a few years ago as the
Speaker 1: year before the pandemic, we were both at Eagles training
Speaker 1: camp on the same day, and he said, you know,
Speaker 1: basically said, do you realize that you started an entire
Speaker 1: industry and an entire genre? And you know, I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't think of it that way. But you know,
Speaker 1: we started with the Matchup show in the mid eighties
Speaker 1: and it's been on every year since. And obviously at
Speaker 1: that time people said, oh, no, one's going to care
Speaker 1: about football like that. And fortunately, thanks to Steve Sable,
Speaker 1: who was my mentor and my boss, you know, we
Speaker 1: just kept doing it and doing it and doing it.
Speaker 1: And I'm sure if I look back at some those
Speaker 1: early shows, I'd probably have a combination of cringing and laughing,
Speaker 1: you know. But but you know, we were fortunately able
Speaker 1: to stay with it, and it's grown and grown and
Speaker 1: grown and now but fans want this. This is what
Speaker 1: people crave because you're can look at you can grab
Speaker 1: your phone and find stats now. You know, obviously thirty
Speaker 1: years ago you couldn't do that because phones didn't exist.
Speaker 1: But now you can find any stat you want in
Speaker 1: a heartbeat, but you still can't see breakdowns of footage.
Speaker 1: And more and more people are doing it. Obviously, as
Speaker 1: in any industry, some do it better than others. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess maybe I did start something. You know, I
Speaker 1: don't like I said. I don't wake up every morning
Speaker 1: and say, man, I started something and that's great. I
Speaker 1: just go do my job. But you know, when people
Speaker 1: bring it to my attention, as you just did, I
Speaker 1: guess that's probably true because we start the first year
Speaker 1: of the Matchup show is nineteen eighty four, first and
Speaker 1: still the best in my opinion. Let's hit on some
Speaker 1: Bengals topics. The biggest offseason story in Cincinnati is Joe
Speaker 1: Burrows contract. He's likely to make more than fifty million
Speaker 1: dollars a year when they get this. How much does
Speaker 1: that change roster construction for Cincinnati? Well, I think it
Speaker 1: always changes it a little bit. We know that the
Speaker 1: salary cap has gone up significantly. It doesn't appear as
Speaker 1: if it would be going down at anytime soon based
Speaker 1: on the popularity of the NFL, which is good for
Speaker 1: all of us. But then you do have some decisions
Speaker 1: to make. Obviously, Joe Burrow is going to get signed
Speaker 1: and more than likely he's going to get signed and
Speaker 1: maybe more than any other quarterback has been signed for
Speaker 1: And you know what, that's just the way it is.
Speaker 1: You're not letting him walk. You're not trying to get
Speaker 1: into a contentious relationship with Joe Burrow and his agents.
Speaker 1: He's a great, great quarterback. I mean, I remember that
Speaker 1: was the you know, the year I gave you my
Speaker 1: report on Joe Burrow, and you know pretty much played
Speaker 1: out that way. And you know, it's fascinating just talking
Speaker 1: about Burrow and other quarterbacks in the draft. And I
Speaker 1: don't know if you if you and I have had
Speaker 1: this conversation before, but you know, now we hear so
Speaker 1: many draft analysts say, well, he's got great traits, and
Speaker 1: they say that about a player because he can throw
Speaker 1: it hard and run fast. And to me, that's not
Speaker 1: what makes that. Those are not great quarterback traits. I
Speaker 1: look at Joe Burrow, and I'm sure if you went
Speaker 1: back and looked at my report, you'd see what I
Speaker 1: did other than being a power thrower. To me, Joe
Speaker 1: Burrow has quarterback traits because quarterback to me, and like
Speaker 1: I said, I was fortunate to learn from the Bill
Speaker 1: Walsters of the world. Quarterback to me is a refined, nuanced, subtle,
Speaker 1: discipline craft position. It's not who can throw at the
Speaker 1: hardest and who can run the fastest. Look, if you
Speaker 1: really have all those subtle and refined traits and you've
Speaker 1: got a big arm, that's great. And in fact, i'll
Speaker 1: give you a great example of a guy you'll remember
Speaker 1: very well because it's Incinnati. Carson Palmer was like that.
Speaker 1: He had the subtle traits, but he also had the
Speaker 1: big arm. Troy Aikman was like that, there's not many
Speaker 1: guys who have who are power throwers and have refined traits.
Speaker 1: Joe Burrow has all the refined traits you want, both
Speaker 1: physically and mentally. The only thing he's probably lacking, but
Speaker 1: it's not a major lack, would be a power arm.
Speaker 1: But that, to me, he has quarterback traits, you know,
Speaker 1: And that's to me the reason he's such a great
Speaker 1: great player. He sees things, you know. Burrow really plays
Speaker 1: the game before the snap of the ball, and I
Speaker 1: think you have to reach that point. Can you be
Speaker 1: a great quarterback without doing that to some degree? Like,
Speaker 1: for instance, I think Josh Allen is still learning that
Speaker 1: to some degree, but he's so physically gifted that he
Speaker 1: can do things other guys can't. Joe Burrow sees the
Speaker 1: game before the snap of the ball and he just
Speaker 1: validates and confirms, and that's why he can play with
Speaker 1: such a refined sense of timing and rhythm. The ball
Speaker 1: comes out, he knows where to go. He's not figuring
Speaker 1: out the defense on his drop. He sees it. He
Speaker 1: knows it. And you know this, you know probably better
Speaker 1: than I do. You're around him, but you know, watching tape,
Speaker 1: that's to me. Those are high, high level quarterback traits.
Speaker 1: Is there anything about Burrow that's even better than you
Speaker 1: thought it would be? You know, I would probably say no,
Speaker 1: and and not that him smarter than anybody else, But
Speaker 1: I just thought Burrow was one of those guys that
Speaker 1: really like Even the next year when Trevor Lawrence came
Speaker 1: out and people talked about him as a generational quarterback,
Speaker 1: I thought Joe Burrow coming out was a better prospect
Speaker 1: than Trevor Lawrence. And actually I spoken to some coaches
Speaker 1: who agree as well. So no, Burrow is Burrow is
Speaker 1: no surprise to me. Maybe the only thing, but it's
Speaker 1: not really a surprise is his ability to make some
Speaker 1: plays with his legs. I knew he had really good
Speaker 1: pocket movement, but we've seen him when it's third and seven.
Speaker 1: He can run for nine and get a first down,
Speaker 1: no problem. You know he's not going to run for
Speaker 1: thirty five. You know, he's not Mahomes in that sense,
Speaker 1: but he does have a feel for Hey, when when
Speaker 1: I have to get nine when it's third and seven
Speaker 1: or third and eight. So Duke Tobin made news early
Speaker 1: this week, at least in Cincinnati, when he squashed rumors
Speaker 1: that the Bengals were considering peddling T Higgins because of,
Speaker 1: you know, his contract situation. What do you think of T?
Speaker 1: I really like T Higgins. I loved him when he
Speaker 1: came out of Clemson. You know, it's so funny. We
Speaker 1: get caught up again with receivers in forty times, and
Speaker 1: I think he ran a four or five seven or
Speaker 1: four or five eight, But he's sixty three two sixteen
Speaker 1: and one thing I learned. There's another thing I had
Speaker 1: to learn over the years is tall receivers. Stride length
Speaker 1: is a trait. Okay, you know when I first started
Speaker 1: with tall receivers, i'd watched him and say, oh, they
Speaker 1: don't look that fast. They're they're not going to be
Speaker 1: a vertical dimension. And I ended up being wrong on guys,
Speaker 1: and t Higgins is like that. He's not a burner,
Speaker 1: but those strides allow him to be a vertical dimension.
Speaker 1: Plus then you have the body control in the hands aspect,
Speaker 1: and his ability to high point the ball. So even
Speaker 1: though he may not run by corners in a strict sense,
Speaker 1: he is a vertical dimension in addition to being very
Speaker 1: good on the immediate routes catching the ball in those inbreakers.
Speaker 1: I think te Higgins and you know, I hate to
Speaker 1: categorize guys, Oh he's a one, he's a two, But
Speaker 1: I think te Higgins on another team would be considered Obviously,
Speaker 1: Jamar Chase is a true alpha, and there's no alpha's
Speaker 1: in this draft, by the way, at wide receiver, No
Speaker 1: Jamar Chases. But Jamar Chase is a true alpha. So
Speaker 1: Higgins sort of. I don't want to say play second fiddle.
Speaker 1: I'm sure he doesn't in the Cincinnati offense, but he's
Speaker 1: not considered that because of Chase. But I think if
Speaker 1: he wore with another team, and I'm hoping he's not
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure Cincinnati fans are hoping the same,
Speaker 1: but I think if he was with another team, he
Speaker 1: would be in number one. But I always liked him.
Speaker 1: I really liked him coming out, and I think we've seen,
Speaker 1: you know, what he can do, and since the look,
Speaker 1: he's puts up a thousand yards as although I remember,
Speaker 1: you know, I remember doing his study last summer, and
Speaker 1: I'm trying to remember specifically. I watched both Chase and
Speaker 1: Higgins separately, and if I'm not mistaken, I can't remember
Speaker 1: whether it was first down or third down, but the
Speaker 1: East had the equal number of targets on a particular down,
Speaker 1: so that you know they throw it to t It's
Speaker 1: not like it's Chase and everybody else. You know, Higgins
Speaker 1: is a major part of what they do in the offense, well,
Speaker 1: especially considering what defenses due to try to take away Chase. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they are clearly times watching tape where you see defenses
Speaker 1: bracket Chase. Sometimes they even Brackett both. I remember this
Speaker 1: was two years ago. You may remember the play. It
Speaker 1: just popped into my head against Baltimore, and I think
Speaker 1: Higgins caught about a forty five fifty yard on a
Speaker 1: vertical route where the Ravens actually doubled all three wide
Speaker 1: outs to happen to remember a triple double? Yeah, do
Speaker 1: you remember the play? And Burrow threw it to Higgins
Speaker 1: on a vertical route on the left side, and it
Speaker 1: went for about forty five fifty yards and Higgins went
Speaker 1: up and got it between two guys. You know. So
Speaker 1: there was a case where Baltimore doubled all three wide receivers. Right.
Speaker 1: The Bengals jokingly refer to that as the triple double.
Speaker 1: It's a basketball term, but it definitely applied to the
Speaker 1: defense there. Let's talk tight ends. The Bengals top three
Speaker 1: tight ends, Hayden Hurst, Drew Sample, Mitch Wilcox are all
Speaker 1: free agents. Somebody's going to be back, but in any case,
Speaker 1: but it's not going to be a big money thing.
Speaker 1: It's not a tight end you're going to say, is they?
Speaker 1: So I'm sure they're looking for a tight end in
Speaker 1: this draft. There are some good ones. I haven't done
Speaker 1: enough work yet, but I've done Kincaid, who is not
Speaker 1: going to work out at the combine I saw, but
Speaker 1: he's really a good receiver. He's one of those maybe
Speaker 1: new breed type tight ends. He's more of a detached player,
Speaker 1: but he's really athletic. I don't want to sit here,
Speaker 1: and says Travis Kelcey. But he can be deployed in
Speaker 1: the same way, meaning that you can detach him from
Speaker 1: the formation. He can be your boundary X on the
Speaker 1: backside of trips. He can be deployed in a very
Speaker 1: similar manner. He's got great hands, he's a really good athlete,
Speaker 1: and he gives you run after catch. I guess it
Speaker 1: all depends on, you know, what the Bengals value. You know,
Speaker 1: obviously they draft later in the first round. I'm not
Speaker 1: good at saying where guys will go. Could Kincaid be there, sure?
Speaker 1: And maybe not, you know, but there are others, you know.
Speaker 1: Like I said, I haven't done them yet, so I
Speaker 1: can't speak to their specific trades. But I've been told
Speaker 1: Musgrave is a really good prospect. I'm trying to think
Speaker 1: of some of the other Michael Mayer. Michael Mayer, I've
Speaker 1: done him. I have done him. To me, Mayor is
Speaker 1: just a really solid tight end, really good hands, catches everything.
Speaker 1: Not as explosive as Kincaid. I think Mayor is just
Speaker 1: one of those guys that would be a solid NFL
Speaker 1: tight end like I wouldn't if you wanted to. Obviously
Speaker 1: we always talk about Kelsey, but like I don't think
Speaker 1: may Or for instances as athletic and as good receiver,
Speaker 1: someone like Dallas Goddard. You know, I don't think he's
Speaker 1: quite that guy, but I think he'd be a really
Speaker 1: solid every down tight end. It's great to have a
Speaker 1: great tight end. The Bengals obviously would like to. But
Speaker 1: how important is tight end in that offense? Well, the
Speaker 1: way they run it now, and they're as you know,
Speaker 1: they're a heavy eleven personnel offense. I mean, I just
Speaker 1: so people understand that means three wide receivers. I think,
Speaker 1: if I remember correctly, they probably played out of eleven
Speaker 1: personnel eighty five percent or more of their offensive snaps.
Speaker 1: So that's who they are. So the tight end, the
Speaker 1: way they play now, assuming all three receivers are still there,
Speaker 1: he's really much more of a complimentary piece. So they
Speaker 1: may not feel they need a tight end early. You know,
Speaker 1: maybe they feel there's a third or fourth round player
Speaker 1: here that they could get because the tight end in
Speaker 1: this offense. Look, even someone like Hayden Hurst, and I
Speaker 1: know he made a couple of big catches. He actually
Speaker 1: made a couple of big catches in the playoff win
Speaker 1: in Buffalo. But you know, and as you said, he's
Speaker 1: a free agent, but you know, he's really that position.
Speaker 1: The way they've played Underburrow the last two years has
Speaker 1: not really been critical. Now, the year before, Uzama didn't
Speaker 1: make a ton of important catches and they did go
Speaker 1: to him at times, but the tight end's not been
Speaker 1: a volume target for them the last two years, and
Speaker 1: hard to imagine it would be as long as those
Speaker 1: three wide receivers stay healthy. So Hayden Hurst is the
Speaker 1: only starter on offense who is a free agent. They've
Speaker 1: got several on defense. Jesse Bates. I think everybody assumes
Speaker 1: he's going to sign elsewhere, Von Bell, Jermaine Pratt, Eli Apple,
Speaker 1: because there's somebody on that list that you think, man,
Speaker 1: they really should try to keep that guy. Well, let's
Speaker 1: put Bates aside, because I think it's pretty evident he's
Speaker 1: probably gonna get a big number. And you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: you would know better, but from what we've spoken about,
Speaker 1: you feel like he's probably gonna be gone. So let's
Speaker 1: leave him out for the moment. And he's a very
Speaker 1: good player. The guy who intrigues me the most and
Speaker 1: I'm curious to see I don't think Dell sign him.
Speaker 1: Who knows is Jermaine Pratt because obviously Logan Wilson deservedly
Speaker 1: so gets most of the attentional linebacker, really complete player,
Speaker 1: plays every down. You know, one of those guys. You know,
Speaker 1: he's not Fred Warner, but he's one of those three
Speaker 1: down complete linebackers. I think Pratt's been a really solid
Speaker 1: player in the last couple of years. You know, almost
Speaker 1: one of those guys you don't think about a lot
Speaker 1: because of Wilson, but just a really solid, important piece
Speaker 1: of that defense. And if he had to be replaced,
Speaker 1: whether it's with a draft pick or a free agent signing,
Speaker 1: because I don't think they would view Davis Gaither as
Speaker 1: the guy to or replace Pratt. He's just not big enough,
Speaker 1: and you know he's not that guy. I think that
Speaker 1: that's I don't want to say, boy, it's a loss
Speaker 1: in their defense will drop because I think lou and
Speaker 1: Aramo does just a ridiculously good job and has finally
Speaker 1: started to get the credit he deserves. But I think
Speaker 1: Pratt's an important piece to that defense and I don't
Speaker 1: think he's going to be easy to replace if he's
Speaker 1: not there. So Low got head coaching interview, didn't get
Speaker 1: the job. Brian Callahan got two head coaching interviews, didn't
Speaker 1: get either job. The benefit for Cincinnati is they've had
Speaker 1: incredible continuity during the Zach Taylor era. This will be
Speaker 1: the fifth straight year with offensive, defensive, and special teams
Speaker 1: coordinators back. How significant is that? Is that extremely advantageous
Speaker 1: in your opinion for Cincinnati? I think it's so much
Speaker 1: more advantageous than people think, because I think continuity with
Speaker 1: a coaching staff and being able to build on the
Speaker 1: concepts that everybody now understands and then has a clear foundation,
Speaker 1: is absolutely critical. I mean I speak to many coaches,
Speaker 1: as you know, and they will tell you, particularly, let's
Speaker 1: say on offense, that it really takes. And Burrow is
Speaker 1: obviously super smart, but it still takes three four years
Speaker 1: for a quarterback to fully understand and execute hit both
Speaker 1: his offense and understand all the defenses in the league.
Speaker 1: You know it. You can obviously line up and play
Speaker 1: without that high level understanding, but then when you get it,
Speaker 1: you know, everything changes. It's and I bet if you
Speaker 1: speak to a quarterback and you have I know, over
Speaker 1: the years, they'll tell you the same thing that all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, it's different, you know. And Burrow's just
Speaker 1: he's a computer chip, so for him it probably happens sooner.
Speaker 1: But still I think if he's being on, it's still
Speaker 1: tell you that the more experience he gets in the
Speaker 1: same system, it's just everything is cleaner. You know. You
Speaker 1: hear the phrase in all sports that the game slows down.
Speaker 1: It's a cliche, but it's a true cliche, and I
Speaker 1: bet for Burrow it's very much like that, and all
Speaker 1: of a sudden if you have to change systems. I've
Speaker 1: had coaches telling me changing systems. It's like, hey, if
Speaker 1: you spent three years in French class, Okay, you're learning
Speaker 1: every nuance of the language of French, and then all
Speaker 1: of a sudden that's gone and someone comes in and says, okay,
Speaker 1: now we have to learn German. You know. It's not
Speaker 1: so easy, you know, And that's what it's like. So
Speaker 1: if you can stay in the same system and keep building,
Speaker 1: I think I'm not sure if people realize how truly
Speaker 1: advantageous that is. I was an exchange student in Spain
Speaker 1: many years ago. Now I can only count to eight,
Speaker 1: which my retention of foreign languages. So the Bengals were
Speaker 1: a couple of minutes away from winning the Super Bowl
Speaker 1: two years ago. They were tied with two minutes to
Speaker 1: go in the AFC Championship Game last year. So obviously
Speaker 1: they're close. It's a super Bowl caliber roster. What's missing?
Speaker 1: What do you think they need to improve to get
Speaker 1: over the top and win a Lombardi Trophy. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: a hard question because when you're that close, you know,
Speaker 1: it's not like to me, and maybe I'm wrong, but
Speaker 1: it's not as if you're missing something. You know. It's
Speaker 1: not as if, oh my god, they lost because they
Speaker 1: just don't have the you know. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: obviously they lost on that final drive against the Rams.
Speaker 1: You know what you're gonna say, You're gonna say, Okay,
Speaker 1: their defense stinks. I mean, obviously it doesn't, you know,
Speaker 1: and then the game against the Chiefs. You know, I
Speaker 1: don't I don't know what to say they. I mean,
Speaker 1: these games are super competitive, highly highly closed games. You know,
Speaker 1: I don't think there's anything to say. I mean, I
Speaker 1: think offensively, I do think they still need to continue
Speaker 1: to upgrade their all line. Quite honestly, I think they
Speaker 1: probably needs to draft some players. Maybe they'll bring in
Speaker 1: a free agent, you know, for as a compete guy.
Speaker 1: But I do think the on line needs to continue
Speaker 1: to get better. Whether it's with the same players improving
Speaker 1: or different players. That's for the coaching staff in the
Speaker 1: organization to figure out. You know. On the defensive side,
Speaker 1: they're going to lose some pieces, you know. I hope
Speaker 1: they can find a way to keep one of the safeties.
Speaker 1: Maybe Bell is the more likely choice because he's certainly
Speaker 1: not going to get the number I think Jessee Bates
Speaker 1: is going to get. But in today's NFL to start
Speaker 1: over with two safeties, I think it's hard so and Bell.
Speaker 1: To me, I don't know Von Bell at all, but
Speaker 1: he strikes me as a savvy, smart player who can
Speaker 1: do a number of things. That's just watching tape. That's
Speaker 1: the way I feel like, you know, because he's not
Speaker 1: a superior athlete. You don't look at him ago why
Speaker 1: there's a special athlete. But he's just one of those
Speaker 1: guys that to me seems like he knows how to
Speaker 1: play the game and can probably be tasked with doing
Speaker 1: a lot of different things. You know, you would know
Speaker 1: better than an effect description. Okay, that's what the film
Speaker 1: shows to me. So you'd hope that they could at
Speaker 1: least sign him. He certainly he won't go under the
Speaker 1: same number as Bates, because, like I said, if you
Speaker 1: start over with two safeties, that's that's a big deal
Speaker 1: that that could pose some issues throughout the early part
Speaker 1: of the season. Final thing for Greg Cosell. Does the
Speaker 1: Combine amaze you what this thing has become? Well, it's
Speaker 1: funny you say that, because I actually produced the first
Speaker 1: combine for NFL Films and um and I guess the network,
Speaker 1: and because at that time, the Combine was still totally secretive,
Speaker 1: you know. And I'll be the first to admit I
Speaker 1: did a horrible job because I didn't know how to
Speaker 1: do it. Because it was totally secretive. They wouldn't even
Speaker 1: let us shoot anything until after the events were over,
Speaker 1: and then we had a set up a set on
Speaker 1: the field at eight o'clock at night, you know, So
Speaker 1: it was it was really it was hard to do
Speaker 1: and I did it poorly, and I was told about
Speaker 1: it by my bosses. But so now everything is kind
Speaker 1: of an open book. But I kind of love. You
Speaker 1: know the thing too, that's so impressive. It's just the
Speaker 1: athletes and not just their physical performance, but listening to
Speaker 1: all these guys speak at the podium, it's I find
Speaker 1: that really good. All these guys are so much much
Speaker 1: more poised, they speak well, they're whether they're coached or
Speaker 1: not irrelevant. You know, it's good that they're coach then
Speaker 1: you know, to be the best they can be. But
Speaker 1: these kids are so savvy, so much smarter. They're really
Speaker 1: enjoyed to listen to um. You know. I think that's
Speaker 1: really advanced. That's probably one of the positives of social media.
Speaker 1: You know, these kids are out there more at a
Speaker 1: young age, and I think they become more aware and
Speaker 1: more savvy. I'm sure my listeners are saying, don't let
Speaker 1: them go, don't let them go, keep going, go for
Speaker 1: another half an hour, but I am going to let
Speaker 1: you go. It's always a treat to run into you
Speaker 1: in Indianapolis, and anytime I have the opportunity to interview you,
Speaker 1: it is great. Thank you so much for your time. Dan,
Speaker 1: always a pleasure anytime. Thank you. As I mentioned in
Speaker 1: that interview, Greg has shared quite a few of his
Speaker 1: pre draft scouting reports with me over the years, and
Speaker 1: for the fun of it, I went back and looked
Speaker 1: at what he wrote about Jackson Carmen before the draft
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago. Here goes Carmen, no doubt
Speaker 1: will be seen by some as a guard at the
Speaker 1: next level, but I believe he projects as a starting
Speaker 1: tackle in the NFL. There is no question that Carmen
Speaker 1: must be team and scheme specific, and he will at
Speaker 1: times struggle on vertical sets with speed off the edge,
Speaker 1: but he can line up and play tackle in the
Speaker 1: NFL and be a quality starter. End of quote. Jackson
Speaker 1: certainly appeared more comfortable at tackle in the playoffs last
Speaker 1: year than he did at guard the year before. With L. L.
Speaker 1: Collins coming back from his torn ACL, perhaps Greg co
Speaker 1: Sell's pre draft scouting report will prove accurate and Jackson
Speaker 1: Carmen will be a quality starter at right tackle. The
Speaker 1: Bengals Booth podcast is brought to you by Paycorps. More
Speaker 1: than twenty nine thousand customers trust paycor to help them recruit,
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Speaker 1: com and by Bengals Picks and Ultimate Bengals. They're free
Speaker 1: to play with tickets and signed merchandise up for grabs.
Speaker 1: Find both inside the Bengals app. Now time for our
Speaker 1: second edition of the three round mock draft with an
Speaker 1: NFL expert. Here's the concept. When I attended the NFL
Speaker 1: Combine last week, I had the Pro Football Focus mock
Speaker 1: Draft simulator set up on my laptop and I I
Speaker 1: did several NFL experts to make the Bengals picks in
Speaker 1: the first three rounds while discussing their options. If you've
Speaker 1: never tried a draft simulator before, it allows you to
Speaker 1: play Bengals GM for as many rounds of the draft
Speaker 1: as you want. The simulator begins making picks in order,
Speaker 1: and then when it's your turn, you will get trade
Speaker 1: proposals and decide whether you want a wheel and deal
Speaker 1: or go ahead and pick. It's a good way to
Speaker 1: get to know the players who are likely to be
Speaker 1: available when the Bengals are on the clock in late April.
Speaker 1: On my last podcast, Dane Brugler from The Athletic chose
Speaker 1: Maryland cornerback Deante Banks in the first round, Northwestern defensive
Speaker 1: lineman at A Tommy wa At a bare in the second.
Speaker 1: In Iowa tight end Sam Laporta in the third. He
Speaker 1: received an A minus grade from Pro Football Focus. This
Speaker 1: week's expert is Pete Prisco from CBS Sports. We are
Speaker 1: doing a mock simulator now with Pete Prisco from CBS Sports,
Speaker 1: where you're going to select the Bengals first three picks.
Speaker 1: These are picks twenty eight, sixty and ninety two. I
Speaker 1: am about to hit start draft and the PF mock
Speaker 1: Draft simulator is quickly racing through the first twenty seven picks,
Speaker 1: and here we go. All right. The guys just selected
Speaker 1: Pete include Elijah Cansey, the defensive lineman from pitt who
Speaker 1: ran the unbelievable forty time wide receiver Jalen Hyatt from Tennessee,
Speaker 1: Nolan Smith, another guy who knocked it out of the
Speaker 1: park at the combine, offensive lineman o Cyrus Torrence Jordan Addison,
Speaker 1: the wide receiver from USC. So those were the previous
Speaker 1: five picks. Are you ready to see what's left on
Speaker 1: the board. I want to see what's left on the
Speaker 1: board because I don't necessarily agree with a lot of
Speaker 1: those guys right there. So let's see Deontay Banks, Andre Carter, Dalton, Kincaid, Tanner, McGee,
Speaker 1: they're not going to take a quarterback, offensive lineman Anton Harrison, edge,
Speaker 1: Will McDonald, Antonio Johnson safety from Texas, tight end Luke
Speaker 1: Musgrave from Ohio or from Oregon State, Mazzie Smith defensive
Speaker 1: lineman from Michigan, Bjochalari from LSU. Anybody intrigue, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, with the her situation being what it is,
Speaker 1: I think they need to get a tight end. So
Speaker 1: let me go back up and based on their I
Speaker 1: know I would probably take Dalton Kincaid in that spot.
Speaker 1: It's probably a little high, but I get it. I
Speaker 1: understand they need a tight end, so I'm gonna take
Speaker 1: Dalton kincame. All right. So Pete Prisco, with a twenty
Speaker 1: eighth pick, has selected Utah tight end Dalton Kincaid. Some
Speaker 1: people have compared him to Travis Kelsey, not that good,
Speaker 1: but in terms of the things that he does well,
Speaker 1: he's got the ability to catch the football. I mean,
Speaker 1: he's going to add another another pass catcher to a
Speaker 1: team that has a ton of pass catchers. But I think,
Speaker 1: you know, with what Hurst, I thought Hurst did some
Speaker 1: good things last or particularly in the season, so I
Speaker 1: think it makes sense to get another tight end in
Speaker 1: a deep tight end draft. Dalton Kincaid is considered by
Speaker 1: many of the draft gurus to be the best receiver.
Speaker 1: He had seventy catches for eight hundred ninety yards and
Speaker 1: eight touchdowns at Utah last year. Kincaid did not work
Speaker 1: out at the Combine because of a small fracture in
Speaker 1: his back that he suffered late in the season, but
Speaker 1: his injury did not require surgery. In their latest mock drafts,
Speaker 1: mel Kiper and Todd McShay from ESPN and Dane Brugler
Speaker 1: from The Athletic All Half. Kincaid, going to the Dallas Cowboys,
Speaker 1: had picked number twenty six, two spots before the Bengals
Speaker 1: select Chrisco got an a minus in round one for
Speaker 1: that pick. Time to find out who Pete selected next.
Speaker 1: All right, we are now in the second round, pick
Speaker 1: number sixty. You can take a look at some of
Speaker 1: the guys that were just selected. Dwan Jones, the Mammoth
Speaker 1: offensive lineman from Ohio State, went two picks before, so
Speaker 1: I would have considered him in that spot because I
Speaker 1: think he's a big, menacing right tackle, and I think
Speaker 1: he'd be good for their team. He's certainly big at
Speaker 1: three eighty yeah, he's and look, both tackles at Ohio
Speaker 1: State are good players, but he's probably a second rounder.
Speaker 1: I get it, all right. So now we are looking
Speaker 1: at the pool of guys that are still available. If
Speaker 1: you want me to look at any sort of position,
Speaker 1: let me know. But we are scrolling down some of
Speaker 1: these names. Andre Carter, Tank Dell wide receiver, special teamer
Speaker 1: from Houston, Dayon Henley linebacker from Washington State, Josh Downs,
Speaker 1: wide receiver from North Carolina. I'll tell you what I think,
Speaker 1: you know, with the Pratt situation being what it is,
Speaker 1: I think I'm gonna go up to the top and
Speaker 1: take the linebacker out of Washington State. I think he's
Speaker 1: a really good player, a nice run and chase linebacker
Speaker 1: who adds some speed to the defense. And you're losing
Speaker 1: you know, you're probably gonna lose him. I mean, Pratt's
Speaker 1: a good player and had a couple of good years
Speaker 1: and he could run. So I think I'll take Henley.
Speaker 1: Dayon Henley is a speedy sideline to sideline linebacker who
Speaker 1: starred last season for Washington State after spending the previous
Speaker 1: five years at Nevada. The former high school quarterback would
Speaker 1: be a candidate to replace Jermaine Pratt if Pratt leaves
Speaker 1: in free agency. Pro Football Focus has Henley ranked third
Speaker 1: seventh on their top one hundred and gave chrisco an
Speaker 1: a for selecting him with the sixtieth overall pick. Now
Speaker 1: let's get to Pete's third and final pick, and now
Speaker 1: the mock simulators racing through round three to get to
Speaker 1: pick number ninety two, and you are now on the clock.
Speaker 1: By the way, it really pains me not to have
Speaker 1: an offensive lineman picked in this group so far. So
Speaker 1: I'm gonna look for one of those guys here if
Speaker 1: I can. In the third round, if you can call
Speaker 1: up the offensive linemen are available, I'll pick one of
Speaker 1: those guys. All right, absolutely, So we are now filtering
Speaker 1: positions and looking for offensive line You want to start
Speaker 1: with tackles. So the pool includes Blake Freeland from BYU,
Speaker 1: Louke Taggart from Indiana, Connor Gelvin from Baylor, Braden Daniels
Speaker 1: from Utah, Carter Warren from pitt Brian Hayes from Michigan,
Speaker 1: as Seem Richards from North Carolina, Trevor Reid from A Louisville.
Speaker 1: Let's go to the guards. All right, none of those names.
Speaker 1: Freeland's intriguing. But in that scenario, you have a youngest
Speaker 1: left tackle. I know John Williams wasn't great last year,
Speaker 1: but he's he's a younger player. So interior offensive line
Speaker 1: here we go. Okay, don't love worhees Um. I don't
Speaker 1: love those two guys. Not in that third round for
Speaker 1: those players. How about let's let's go back to the tackles,
Speaker 1: because I think Freeland is an interesting guy. He's a
Speaker 1: left tackle. He's a massive, massive guy. I mean he's
Speaker 1: big um, you know, held up well at BYU, and
Speaker 1: you can never have, particularly this team has learned in
Speaker 1: the last couple of years, you can never have enough
Speaker 1: offensive lineman. I think you draft a good one in
Speaker 1: that spot and figure it out from there. So I'll
Speaker 1: take I'll take Freeland. Blake Freeland from b YU is
Speaker 1: Pete Prisco's third round pick, number ninety overall, and now
Speaker 1: we're about to get your draft. I don't think they
Speaker 1: like my grade. I bet they don't like my grade.
Speaker 1: PFF never likes anything I do. Before we get to
Speaker 1: the grade, here's the skinny on BYU offensive tackled Blake Freeland.
Speaker 1: He's six eight, three hundred two pounds and opened eyes
Speaker 1: at the combine by running the third fastest forty yard
Speaker 1: dash of any offensive lineman and setting a new combine
Speaker 1: record for his position by posting a thirty seven inch
Speaker 1: vertical leap that's better than what wide receivers A. J. Brown,
Speaker 1: DeAndre Hopkins, and Stefan Diggs did at their combines. And again,
Speaker 1: Freeland ways three hundred two pounds. Blake was a captain
Speaker 1: and a four year starter at BYU who played quarterback
Speaker 1: in tight end in high school. Now time to find
Speaker 1: out Pete Prisco's grade for selecting Freeland in round three.
Speaker 1: Not too bad. Good first and second pick. Plus on
Speaker 1: the Blake Freeland pick, Why what's the explanation on it? Well,
Speaker 1: they have him one forty two on their big board
Speaker 1: and you selected of ninety two, so it would be
Speaker 1: a value situation. I went, I went to go get
Speaker 1: an offensive one, and I didn't. I'll be honest with you.
Speaker 1: You heard me. I had a trouble with the offensive
Speaker 1: tackles and the guards. It's not in that spot. I
Speaker 1: didn't love them, but I I like my first two
Speaker 1: picks a lot. They're overall grade to B B yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't love Freeland, but in that spot, I went
Speaker 1: for the best offensive tackle. I appreciate you doing this.
Speaker 1: You gotta be nothing wrong with a B no, but
Speaker 1: I'm an a student that's based on PFF bad grades.
Speaker 1: Blake Freeland's a better pick than that. Guys. I bet
Speaker 1: Joe Burrow be happy you drafted an offensive lineman. I mean,
Speaker 1: how many years in a row? Now it is two
Speaker 1: years in a row, and the line was okay until
Speaker 1: they had all the injuries. But it just shows you
Speaker 1: how fragile that position is. You got to have offensive lineman,
Speaker 1: and with ll Collins coming back from a torn acl
Speaker 1: go no for sure if he'll be ready for the
Speaker 1: start of the season. Adding a top three round offensive
Speaker 1: lineman is smart football. Yeah. I mean, look, Carmen showed
Speaker 1: he could play tackle, and he would look much more
Speaker 1: comfortable playing tackle, so that makes sense. You could shift
Speaker 1: him over there and play him on the right side,
Speaker 1: and that will alleviate some of the problems. But you
Speaker 1: still have guys get hurt and you worry about it.
Speaker 1: So you get a young not like Jonah Williams was
Speaker 1: Anthony Munios at left tackle last year either, By the way,
Speaker 1: sorry Jonah, you're a good sport. Pete. I appreciate you
Speaker 1: doing this. Thank you, you got it, no problem. Or
Speaker 1: NFL expert mock drafts still to look forward to in
Speaker 1: the weeks to come. That's going to do it for
Speaker 1: this episode of The Bengals Booth Podcast brought to you
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Speaker 1: Bengals fans find us. I'm Dan Horde. Thanks for listening
Speaker 1: to The Bengals Booth Podcast.