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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

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Speaker 2: Yes, every Wednesday we recap our old episodes with all

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Speaker 2: new commentary, updates and insights, and you are welcome.

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Speaker 3: Today we're recapping episode sixty nine, You Pervert, which we

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Speaker 3: named never a Mannequin Legendary.

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Speaker 2: Classic just iconic? Are you allowed to call your own

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Speaker 2: titles iconic? This episode came out May teen, twenty seventeen.

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Speaker 1: Let's listen to the intro of episode sixty nine. Hello,

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Speaker 1: welcome to my favorite murder. That's Karen, that's Georgia. Hi.

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Speaker 3: I'm in my element right now. I'm double fisting petting

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Speaker 3: cats and that's my dream.

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Speaker 1: That's how Georgia parties. Yeah, we just.

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Speaker 3: Got back from our the last weekend of our first tour.

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Speaker 1: That's right. Thank you, Washington, d C.

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Speaker 2: Thank you Baltimore, thank you, Philly, to Ford slash Glenside, Pennsylvania.

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Speaker 2: We had the best weekend. We met so many great people,

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Speaker 2: so many incredible people.

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Speaker 1: They sent us home with so many lovely presents. My

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Speaker 1: suitcase was crammed.

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Speaker 2: And we just gave Stephen many and many the presents

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Speaker 2: that you gave us to give him.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, after we picked what we wanted out of his growth. K. Yes,

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Speaker 1: there's lots of stuff that we didn't tell him about

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Speaker 1: that we're just keeping.

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Speaker 2: We'll ever know, little mustache things we get to have,

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Speaker 2: but we did want to mention it was very exciting

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Speaker 2: because this time it felt like and maybe it was

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Speaker 2: the area that we were in.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Washington. Yeah we met.

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Speaker 2: We met a forensic analyst, we met a criminal defense attorney.

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Speaker 1: Who listened to the show, not just on the street, right, Yes,

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Speaker 1: they came to the show.

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Speaker 2: They bought VIP tickets, They had a high high how

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Speaker 2: are you make a picture with us?

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Speaker 1: And it was very exciting to be meaning actual people.

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Speaker 1: What was that I don't know my microphone, Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: George's microphone is leaving. They were.

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Speaker 2: People who are in the business of stopping crime who

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Speaker 2: listened to this podcast, which we were very very honored

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Speaker 2: by and thank you all for what you do and

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Speaker 2: for listening.

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Speaker 1: But the most exciting.

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Speaker 2: Part, I'll talk slowly so that while Stephen fixed Georgia's microphone,

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Speaker 2: she can.

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Speaker 1: Still participate the story without me.

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Speaker 2: Stephen, hurry, Wow, that was past the most exciting for well,

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Speaker 2: I'll say for me, I think for you too.

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Speaker 1: Oh I started crying, crying.

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Speaker 2: When we were in Baltimore, the Rams head, thank you everybody.

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Speaker 2: The Rams said, that was a really cool, like rock

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Speaker 2: and roll venue, so hilarious.

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Speaker 3: Weird, but you could smell the sticky beer from decades past.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the Pixies were playing the night after. That's what

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Speaker 2: we were freaking out about. We kept saying we were

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Speaker 2: trying to We wanted to leave something for Kim Deal

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Speaker 2: somewhere in the dressing room. But anyway, these two guys

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Speaker 2: walk up in the meet and greet and flip out

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Speaker 2: an ID, their federal ID, and it turned up two

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Speaker 2: FBI agents were at the show.

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Speaker 3: And he knew to flip his ID open because we'd

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Speaker 3: lose our shit. So he walks towards us like in

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Speaker 3: the copyist cop manner.

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Speaker 1: I think he was like six foot six. Listen, both

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Speaker 1: of them were. Both of them were incredibly handsome.

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Speaker 2: They were two hot FBI agents with big smiles on

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Speaker 2: their faces doing a bit for us.

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Speaker 3: And they looked they looked like FBI agents, young ones

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Speaker 3: that but were cool.

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Speaker 1: Yes, not that you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: Yes, well, no, they were great and they were super

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Speaker 2: funny because they immediately were doing a bit about the

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Speaker 2: girl that did a hometown and Georgia. This was my

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Speaker 2: favorite part is I was immediately just like I had

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Speaker 2: no idea what to say, and I was completely starstruck.

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Speaker 1: Where I'm like, I looked at this guy's ID. But

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Speaker 1: when I were this is fake, yells across me and

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Speaker 1: goes move your finger, your fingers covering your face, and

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Speaker 1: it was it was just the way he flipped open

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Speaker 1: his wallet looking ID FBI agent, I d his finger

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Speaker 1: was over his own face, which is like a trick

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Speaker 1: people use when they're trying to trick you into like

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Speaker 1: getting into your car. Totally, he started laughing because she

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Speaker 1: moved his finger and of course it was him.

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Speaker 3: He did not believe him, and I was like, that's

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Speaker 3: a fucking age old.

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Speaker 1: Everyone knows that trick. And then it turns out it

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Speaker 1: was not a trick.

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Speaker 2: They were two real deal FBI agents who worked for They.

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Speaker 1: Worked for the Anti Terrorism Yeah, squad. I don't know

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Speaker 1: if it's a thing. I doubt it's a squad gang, right,

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Speaker 1: the Anti terrorism gang.

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Speaker 3: And then the reason the other guy was with him

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Speaker 3: was because the first guy who covered his face was

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Speaker 3: supposed to go with his girlfriend or fiance. She got

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Speaker 3: deployed to Afghanistan. Yes, I think she was the forensic pathologist.

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Speaker 2: Maybe you know, she definitely worked in the business as well,

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Speaker 2: but she was also in the military because she got

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Speaker 2: deployed to was it Afghanistan?

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Speaker 1: Totally Afghanistan. And we were just like, you're you're the

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Speaker 1: three of your rock stars. You're living a life very

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Speaker 1: different from ours.

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Speaker 2: And also we talk about what you do all the

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Speaker 2: time as of four experts. I mean, now you're here

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Speaker 2: as as like audience members, but you're actually the experts.

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Speaker 1: It was the coolest experience.

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Speaker 3: I asked so many of the experts who are like

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Speaker 3: I do this. I asked, most of them, are you

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Speaker 3: mad at us?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? And it turns out none of them are mad

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Speaker 1: at it.

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Speaker 3: Oh and then the cop No, wait, is that Austin?

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Speaker 1: The cop with the eyeball killer? That was? Oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was. That was at Moodtower, right, it was Moon Tower. No,

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Speaker 1: I think it was DC with the pregnant chick. No,

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Speaker 1: that was no. No, are you sure.

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Speaker 3: I think it was DC because the cop they weren't

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Speaker 3: me a cop convention.

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Speaker 1: Remember, you're exactly right, and that's why he was there.

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Speaker 3: So there was the guy with the Eyeball Killer that

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Speaker 3: we did a couple few up long time ago. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I don't know how many episodes we recorded, and like

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Speaker 3: this is that's the number ten, right. He wanted to

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Speaker 3: meet us. He like tweeted that he was in town

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Speaker 3: for a cop convention, and I was like, oh God,

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Speaker 3: are you mad at us? Because I were mad at

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Speaker 3: me because I have no idea what I said about

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Speaker 3: you in the episode. His daughter in law came in

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Speaker 3: pregnant and was like, no, he thinks you're great.

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Speaker 1: Here's a signed copy of his book. But I'm sorry.

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Speaker 2: All of that is right, except it wasn't the pregnant

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Speaker 2: girl that was separate.

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Speaker 1: There were three pregnant. There was three girls the eye

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Speaker 1: the Eyeball Killers. Wasn't it his stepdaughter? Yeah, something like that,

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Speaker 1: and they were it was her and her two friends. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he doesn't matter. It doesn't matter at all

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Speaker 1: except for that.

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Speaker 2: We have these great experiences with people for forty five seconds,

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Speaker 2: and then another experience happens right after.

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Speaker 1: It's very hard to keep them all track, but we

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Speaker 1: like them all.

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Speaker 2: The bummer was he was there and he waiting outside,

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Speaker 2: but we had no ability.

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Speaker 1: Like it was the end and we didn't have the

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Speaker 1: ability to get him inside.

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Speaker 3: I feel like someday soon we're going to post the

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Speaker 3: Philly episode. It was the last episode and it was

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Speaker 3: sweet as fuck.

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Speaker 1: I thought some girl that I should be able to

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Speaker 1: name recorded the stay Sexy, Don't Get Murder part that

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Speaker 1: the crowd yells with us, uh huh, and I put

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Speaker 1: it on Instagram and.

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Speaker 3: It's just so sweet. It's like sweet asn't like sweet.

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Speaker 3: It's just like this great moment. Oh cool, I love,

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Speaker 3: oh I love when we do that at the end.

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Speaker 1: It's so much fun. It's very fun.

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Speaker 2: And all three shows were great, and all three audiences

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Speaker 2: were like one was better than the next.

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Speaker 1: They were just like it.

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Speaker 2: They were all so great and fun and excited and

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Speaker 2: thank you all so so much.

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Speaker 1: For being there. And yes, stop asking us on Twitter.

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Speaker 1: We're going to come to your town. Yeah we will. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's a planned fall tour. Yeah, we just want to

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Speaker 1: keep doing it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, listen, so saying the word Australia and that's all

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Speaker 3: I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: That's right, And say the word New Zealand because that's

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Speaker 1: also in there and New Zealand. And yes, we're coming

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Speaker 1: to your California. No, your state.

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Speaker 2: We're coming to your personal California anyways, it's what your

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Speaker 2: California is, Like, this is my California, but maybe Texas

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Speaker 2: is your California, right, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Like, who, what's your California?

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Speaker 2: What's your California. We also thank you for sharing the

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Speaker 2: news that Ian Brady is dead. That was your your murder,

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Speaker 2: that's the Mores murder.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought he was dead. Who cares? You're never

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Speaker 1: going to get out.

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Speaker 3: I mean, whatever he did, okay, he I mean, it's

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Speaker 3: great because he's murdering. He deserves to be dead, but okay.

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Speaker 1: Now he is.

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Speaker 2: But the thing a lot of people were very excited

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Speaker 2: about is the very recent casting of Zac Efron to

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Speaker 2: play the part of Ted Bundy.

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Speaker 1: They were excited, but there were some weren't.

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Speaker 3: Some, you know, they just you guys seem to want

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Speaker 3: to know what our opinion was because you had said

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Speaker 3: who was the guy that you said should play him?

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Speaker 1: Never mind? But no recollection.

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Speaker 2: Even though I remember us talking about, okay, I'll be

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Speaker 2: able to remember it. Steven Stephn's like, I don't listen

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Speaker 2: to this. What do you think of it?

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Speaker 1: I fucking dig it?

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Speaker 3: At first I was like huh, but then I remember,

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Speaker 3: you know, he does these goofy movies, but he's also

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Speaker 3: done some cool shit and he's a good actor.

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Speaker 1: Seems like a cool dude.

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Speaker 3: And then someone put a photo side by side of

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Speaker 3: like a young Ted Bundy and like a photo that

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Speaker 3: kind of matched of zac Efron, and it was just.

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Speaker 1: Exactly what it was supposed to be.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so if he can, if he can act it,

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Speaker 3: and it'll be legit.

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Speaker 2: And I tell you now he can act it. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: because I may have. I may have been keeping this

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Speaker 2: to myself up until this point, although I can't imagine why,

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Speaker 2: because I I love.

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Speaker 1: The movie seventeen Again. Yes, he was my lover.

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Speaker 2: The movie if he's seventeen again, I believe it's called

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Speaker 2: with him and Tom Lennon where he plays his own father.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he is so brilliant in it must be the

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Speaker 1: one I was thinking of.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's such good acting. It's a Disney movie and

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Speaker 2: it's a body switch. You know, I'm young again. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's basically zach Efron doing an impression of Matthew Perry

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Speaker 2: and it is so fucking great.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: My sister made me watch it for the first time.

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Speaker 2: She's like, you have to watch it, you'll like it.

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Speaker 2: And I have to trust her when she says that

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Speaker 2: because she's always right, and it is.

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Speaker 1: It's just masterful acting by him.

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Speaker 2: He doesn't get enough credit for what a good actor

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Speaker 2: he is, and he tries to do interesting stuff.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: My only thing was April texted me. My friend April

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Speaker 2: Richardson of Go Bayside podcast fame. She texted me it

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Speaker 2: was like, I know I'm the one millionth person to

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Speaker 2: tell you this, but did you know zach Efron?

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Speaker 1: And she's like, and what do you think?

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Speaker 2: And I said, you're the millionth person that's asked, but

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Speaker 2: you're the first person I'm answering. And I said, I'm

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Speaker 2: I believe in him one thousand percent. He just has

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Speaker 2: to beef down because he's too cut, right.

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Speaker 3: It's like it's that like seventies cut, which is like

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Speaker 3: super skinny but also muscular, but there's no sinewy.

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Speaker 1: Sinewy that's it. Yeah, yeah, he definitely has to do that.

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Speaker 1: But he's like a bike rider as opposed to a weightlifter.

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Speaker 3: I know, yeah, I'm just excited to see it. I mean,

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Speaker 3: there's not really a good one at all.

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Speaker 1: There's the Mark.

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Speaker 2: Harmon one, which is fine, but it's like a made

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Speaker 2: for TV movie, so it's not like and realastic.

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Speaker 1: It's not scholastic.

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Speaker 3: It's not scholastic, it's not realistic, it's not bombastic, it's

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Speaker 3: none of those things.

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Speaker 2: I think it'll be good also because I think people

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Speaker 2: are just like, let's ride this fucking true crime wave

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Speaker 2: as hard as we can. So yeah, people are seeing

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Speaker 2: that there's so much interest. They've just combined two great things,

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Speaker 2: which is like what a girl's like true crime and

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Speaker 2: zach Efron.

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Speaker 1: Totally, let's do this thing.

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Speaker 3: Speaking of listen, next week we're gonna talk about the D. D.

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Speaker 3: Blanchard and Gypsy Rose documentary that's on HBO. So go

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Speaker 3: watch it and then we're going to watch it and

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Speaker 3: talk about it. But it's definitely something we want to

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Speaker 3: chat with you about.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I can't wait to see it.

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Speaker 3: It's called Mommy Dearest and Dead. Yes, so go to

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Speaker 3: it's on HBO. I think I'm pretty sure it is

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Speaker 3: pretty sure.

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Speaker 1: Go watch it. Yeah, I watch yourself.

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Speaker 2: A bunch of people have watched it and asked us

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Speaker 2: about it. Georgia did her homework. I did not, so

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Speaker 2: I didn't want to out you. Thank you did you

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Speaker 2: hear me say that we're going to watch it.

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Speaker 1: Yes, it was. That's called teamwork, and I appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: But Karen didn't do it, and I did it. Can

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Speaker 1: you met? Oh my god, what a count I would be.

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Speaker 2: There was some was there something in there that really

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Speaker 2: wanted to do that though, because I.

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Speaker 1: Know, I was like, how do I get around saying this?

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Speaker 2: Well?

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Speaker 1: That was masterful? I like, shate it. Yeah, I pretended

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Speaker 1: that I had either thank you you took that hit? Steven?

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Speaker 1: Did you watch it? Not yet? Okay?

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Speaker 3: Even all right, so he's on it HBO though, okay,

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Speaker 3: good two against one any elvis.

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Speaker 2: It's always due against one in this setup. On that

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Speaker 2: particular story, no information is enough. So the fact that

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Speaker 2: someone has put together an actual documentary and has her.

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Speaker 3: Gypsy today talk, Oh my god, there's a prison interview.

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Speaker 3: And the whole time I was just like, do I

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Speaker 3: believe her? You cannot tell? And then you're like is

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Speaker 3: she crying tears or is she just sounding like and

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Speaker 3: there's so much shit and then I didn't know the

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Speaker 3: background at the mom so that was really fucking interesting.

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Speaker 1: That's in there as.

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Speaker 3: Well, Oh my god, And I can't wait. I know

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Speaker 3: it's I very much liked it.

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Speaker 2: And the and the exciting part is which a bunch

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Speaker 2: of people told us and we discovered the director, I

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Speaker 2: don't have her name, Handy is a murderino who somebody

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Speaker 2: posts a thing that said, look when the when this

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Speaker 2: famous documentary filmmaker just shows up on our Facebook page.

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Speaker 1: Like commenting on it, like thanks, I'm glad you guys

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Speaker 1: liked it. Yeah, so cool. So we'll tell it you

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Speaker 1: guys who it is next week. We'll write it down

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Speaker 1: prepared thing, we'll talk imagine.

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Speaker 3: Oh I wanted to say, so my in the vein

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Speaker 3: of we love it when just suddenly people like come

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Speaker 3: out of the woodwork that you would never know have

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Speaker 3: a murder and then they tell you about it, like

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Speaker 3: your uncle did that, right, Like, oh I caught the

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Speaker 3: fucking Oh yeah.

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Speaker 2: My cousin Marty uh is the one that lifted the

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Speaker 2: Richard Ramis's fingerprints at the last breaking and entering in

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Speaker 2: San Francisco where they figured out who the night stalker was.

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Speaker 1: And then you were like, why didn't you tell me?

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Speaker 1: And he's like, why would I tell you that? Ever?

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Speaker 1: So I have a similar one.

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Speaker 3: My cousin Nancy who's like pretty significantly older than me.

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Speaker 1: You know, I think I don't know.

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Speaker 3: And she's just like a normal, really lovely, normal person

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Speaker 3: and married with kids. She teaches old people how to

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Speaker 3: use the internet, like she's just she's just a really

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Speaker 3: lovely woman.

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Speaker 1: So she then you knows me very patient, does, isn't it?

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Speaker 3: She emailed me and says, Hi, Georgia, I listened to

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Speaker 3: one of your my favorite murder podcasts today. One of

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Speaker 3: the questions was something about someone you knew new a murderer.

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Speaker 3: Blah blah blah blah blah. Well, back in the late

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Speaker 3: eighties early nineties, I worked at the Peterson Publishing House

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Speaker 3: in West Hollywood. One of the guys in the photo

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Speaker 3: lab killed one of the models on a shoot. I

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Speaker 3: knew him when I worked there, but the murder was

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Speaker 3: years after I left the company. But I was an

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Speaker 3: editorial assistant of one of the car magazines and he'd

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Speaker 3: come by and hand me the photos. He never smiled,

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Speaker 3: but looked me directly in the eye. It was creepy.

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Speaker 1: And then I knew anyway, And add.

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Speaker 3: Another relative who knows a murderer loved Nancy, And then

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Speaker 3: I was like, I think this is the one I know,

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Speaker 3: which is such an interesting story. It's Charles Rathbundy who

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Speaker 3: killed Linda Sobeck in the fucking desert, right and he said, oh,

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Speaker 3: I hit her with my car on accident when I

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Speaker 3: was showing her some cool moves and I buried her

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Speaker 3: body because I got scared.

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Speaker 1: And it's like, no, you fucking didn't know.

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Speaker 3: And then like they found another one of his bodies

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Speaker 3: close by that as well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, was it in the desert? Was it in Angelie's

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Speaker 2: National form?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but I think it was like an open thing,

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Speaker 3: I don't know, open plain of thing right right, it

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Speaker 3: was just far away, like he would basically get them

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Speaker 3: to come and go on quote unquote shoots.

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Speaker 1: And maybe that was just in my imagination. I like

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Speaker 1: pictured the desert, so yeah, that's what it looks like.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't it was what we know is it was

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Speaker 2: far away, Yeah, because I don't know my I'm pretty

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Speaker 2: sure though that that was a city confidential for Los

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Speaker 2: Angeles about the death of Lindosobec.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and I told her.

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Speaker 3: I I messaged her back and was like, I've fucking

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Speaker 3: gone into a rural, rural area with a guy who

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Speaker 3: wanted to take photos of me when I was younger

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Speaker 3: and didn't get murdered, and so that murder is just

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Speaker 3: I know what it's like to suddenly be like, oh, fuck,

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Speaker 3: this was a mistake and nobody knows I'm here. Yes, yeah,

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Speaker 3: so scary, and I don't know this. I thought I

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Speaker 3: kind of knew this person. I don't know him at all, right, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, when you're young, you think you're friends with everybody. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's just like, oh, yeah, my buddy, that's a photographer

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Speaker 2: or whatever. Where it's like, where's he from, what's does

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Speaker 2: he have any siblings? How much do you know this person?

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Speaker 1: And you're easily charmed you don't bring anyone with you, right,

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Speaker 1: you do it by their dictate. This is how we're

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Speaker 1: going to do it. This is where we're going to go,

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Speaker 1: because you don't not to say fuck no.

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Speaker 2: Well, also, you're so complimented by the fact that someone's like,

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Speaker 2: I think that you are a model.

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Speaker 3: Right, which I totally I admit to that completely, of course,

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Speaker 3: why wouldn't you. Yeah, that's a big that's a big

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Speaker 3: part of all that. And then the shame of like, oh,

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Speaker 3: how dare you think that? I mean, it's the perfect

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Speaker 3: play they have you coming and going.

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Speaker 1: Listen, don't do it, you guys. Let's start at a

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Speaker 1: well populated place and you meet them there. Don't get

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Speaker 1: in the car with them, right right. Yes.

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Speaker 2: And there's also there was a guy that was doing

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Speaker 2: this and he was actually going up to women at

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Speaker 2: the Century City Mall had that one, and he was

385
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Speaker 2: saying he was a casting director for the new James

386
00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:57,399
Speaker 2: Bond movie. Yes, and they had it on surveillance, right,

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00:17:57,560 --> 00:17:59,879
Speaker 2: they have him on surveillance. And you would go to

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Speaker 2: houses that were being he would get shown the house

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Speaker 2: by real estate agents, so he knew it was an

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Speaker 2: empty house. Then he would have the women meet them

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Speaker 2: at that house and kill them there, and that's how

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Speaker 2: he got caught.

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Speaker 1: It's so crazy. Yeah, uh, that's amazing.

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Speaker 3: Can I quickly do a podcast recommendation?

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Speaker 1: Of course?

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00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:22,560
Speaker 3: And I've said I've talked about this podcast in its

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00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:25,320
Speaker 3: first season because it was excellent, and then they I

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00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:27,639
Speaker 3: just like listened to the second season in a fucking

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00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:30,760
Speaker 3: minute because it was so good. Yeah, it's someone knows something,

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00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:33,840
Speaker 3: which I think they're calling sks now because no one

401
00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:35,040
Speaker 3: knew anything last season?

402
00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:37,040
Speaker 1: Is that the Canadian one? Yeah, with the guy with

403
00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:38,960
Speaker 1: the love him.

404
00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:43,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, so he The second season is fucking great. It's

405
00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:45,959
Speaker 3: really great storytelling. He has so much empathy, which is

406
00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:49,080
Speaker 3: you know, hard to find sometimes in these stories. His

407
00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:53,640
Speaker 3: name's his name is David Riggan, Redggin Regan, and he's

408
00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:55,359
Speaker 3: like helped solve murders in the past.

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Speaker 1: He's a documentary friend.

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Speaker 3: Like it's it's fucking heartbreaking. It's really well done and

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Speaker 3: I highly recommend it. He has the most charming Canadian accent.

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Speaker 1: He's so charming.

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Speaker 2: And that first season, even though there were no hard answers,

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00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:11,240
Speaker 2: it still is such a great See my god, it's

415
00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:11,720
Speaker 2: so good.

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00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:13,520
Speaker 1: It's heart it's also heartbreaking.

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00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:17,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's also it never really was solved, so

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00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:20,600
Speaker 3: it's still so interesting because you don't know if someone

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00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:21,840
Speaker 3: knows something or not right.

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00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:25,399
Speaker 2: And it also shows what these detectives are up against

421
00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:28,719
Speaker 2: when these homicides come in. It's like, because you know,

422
00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:30,560
Speaker 2: I do have a lot of guilt about how much

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00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:33,359
Speaker 2: shit we talk about detective work or police work where

424
00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:37,360
Speaker 2: it's such armchair quarterbacking, and we talk about that a lot.

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00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:41,760
Speaker 2: But it going through it that way, especially that was

426
00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:44,200
Speaker 2: that one was from the seventies. I first season murder

427
00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:46,920
Speaker 2: of that little boy, and it's just like it's you're

428
00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:50,080
Speaker 2: they're going on nothing. They have strands, they have basic

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00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:51,480
Speaker 2: bits of information.

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Speaker 3: And we don't think about the fact that they don't

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00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:55,440
Speaker 3: have time. It's not like they have the next three

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00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:58,040
Speaker 3: months to look into this case. They have, you know,

433
00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:00,400
Speaker 3: a bunch of other cases going as well and more

434
00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:04,200
Speaker 3: adding up, and they don't have the time to unfortunately

435
00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:06,440
Speaker 3: give to it by no fault of their own right,

436
00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:08,920
Speaker 3: you know the fact that they haven't hired enough detectives,

437
00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:11,480
Speaker 3: they don't have the money to at the department.

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00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:15,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it turns into all that red tape stuff. Yeah,

439
00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:18,879
Speaker 2: that's such a it's such an interesting like the fact

440
00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:22,560
Speaker 2: that politics affect so many of these murder cases and

441
00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:25,359
Speaker 2: how much time and attention they get, which then folds

442
00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:27,800
Speaker 2: in the whole thing of when sex workers are involved

443
00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:29,800
Speaker 2: and they get dismissed, or when it's or.

444
00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:32,160
Speaker 3: Did she disappear and did she just run away? Maybe

445
00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:32,879
Speaker 3: she just ran away?

446
00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:35,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, that old kind of seventies like I don't want

447
00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:39,440
Speaker 2: to do the paperwork, she's a runaway, the sex working

448
00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:42,119
Speaker 2: and then also just the like when it's a white

449
00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:45,600
Speaker 2: blonde teenage cheerleader that's in high school. All of the

450
00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:49,560
Speaker 2: political power goes behind it as opposed to anybody of color,

451
00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:51,399
Speaker 2: a person that's a sex worker, person that was a

452
00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:52,040
Speaker 2: drug addict.

453
00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:52,880
Speaker 1: Well, what I love.

454
00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:55,840
Speaker 3: About this episode or this season of Someone of Something

455
00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:59,600
Speaker 3: is it's not a fucking perfect blonde cheerleader. She had

456
00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:02,840
Speaker 3: been an drugs she was an exotic dancer, you know,

457
00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:06,440
Speaker 3: she was had a temper. She wasn't but she still

458
00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:09,800
Speaker 3: deserves she still deserves to, you know. Her mother is

459
00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:13,520
Speaker 3: like the most heartbreaking character you've ever heard, Odette.

460
00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:16,160
Speaker 1: Which I love that name, but I got to listen

461
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:17,520
Speaker 1: to that. Yeah, but yeah, it's good.

462
00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:19,719
Speaker 3: It's not until and then there's the thing too, of

463
00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:22,399
Speaker 3: like at the time of the murder, friends and family

464
00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:24,680
Speaker 3: might not want to talk, you know, they know things,

465
00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:27,640
Speaker 3: they're scared, but he's he's looking into it, like twenty

466
00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:31,320
Speaker 3: years later, and he's such an empathetic guy and he's

467
00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:35,080
Speaker 3: just trying to solve it. He's not trying to, you know,

468
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:37,680
Speaker 3: fuck with anyone, right, And so they talked to him

469
00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:39,960
Speaker 3: and I mean he's fucking great.

470
00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:40,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's so good.

471
00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:44,080
Speaker 3: So watch Someone Know Something in second season and first yes,

472
00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:49,639
Speaker 3: same way it's podcast, right yeah, yeah.

473
00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:50,840
Speaker 1: O Kai Hi, how are you. I'm great, How are you?

474
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:51,680
Speaker 1: I'm really good?

475
00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:53,560
Speaker 2: Is there anything else we wanted to I guess my

476
00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:55,960
Speaker 2: only the one, And I can't remember if I've said

477
00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:59,840
Speaker 2: this already, but I've gotten on your recommendation so into.

478
00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:03,959
Speaker 1: The now. I can't remember the name of it. Which one?

479
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:08,600
Speaker 1: What's it about? The the guy, the Australian guy. Oh, crime,

480
00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:11,439
Speaker 1: mysterious wonders.

481
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:15,200
Speaker 3: Oh honey, Yes, mysteries abound mysteries.

482
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:20,520
Speaker 1: It is just the most beautiful. It is so beautifully presented.

483
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:24,960
Speaker 1: He at the top of every story, he cites his sources.

484
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:27,800
Speaker 1: That's the theirirst thing I noticed where I'm like, ah, yes,

485
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:30,280
Speaker 1: that's what we're that's what we're doing. But for someone

486
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:30,760
Speaker 1: who's just.

487
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:36,560
Speaker 3: Reading articles about mysteries throughout the internet, it's so good.

488
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:39,800
Speaker 1: It's so good. It's not his stories. He's doing no research.

489
00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:43,560
Speaker 2: He's well, he's reading articles, but he's it's performative. And

490
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:47,800
Speaker 2: it's also he gets why certain things are interesting. I

491
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:50,840
Speaker 2: don't know, it's just I've listened to now probably twenty

492
00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:52,720
Speaker 2: of them because we've been doing so much traveling.

493
00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:55,960
Speaker 1: It's just the perfect podcast and it goes.

494
00:22:55,720 --> 00:23:00,160
Speaker 3: All over the place, like seven interesting Facts about urine

495
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:03,960
Speaker 3: or like you know why the like mysteries about the Moon,

496
00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:06,440
Speaker 3: which is my favorite fucking one. It's like these things

497
00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:08,560
Speaker 3: I never knew about. But then also he is the

498
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:11,400
Speaker 3: most droning, like the most comforting voice. So I fall

499
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:13,520
Speaker 3: asleep to it every fucking night. I thought, Yeah, I

500
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:15,239
Speaker 3: was falling asleep on the plane. But then there's this

501
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:17,320
Speaker 3: one thing he does where, like the he'll tell the

502
00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:19,399
Speaker 3: story and then have music in between the next ones,

503
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:22,240
Speaker 3: and for some reason that music is super loud. Yeah,

504
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:26,000
Speaker 3: so I keep waking up when the story's it's scary bad,

505
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:26,399
Speaker 3: but I love it.

506
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:31,240
Speaker 1: Mysteries bound, Okay, Mysteries bounds so good. Okay, So we

507
00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:34,639
Speaker 1: do ours? Do we go first based on our tour

508
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:38,480
Speaker 1: or do we go first? We did shit Sorry, Q.

509
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:40,440
Speaker 3: And A last time, but then we did the live

510
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:42,840
Speaker 3: show after Wait, we did the live show before Q

511
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:43,159
Speaker 3: and it.

512
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:45,240
Speaker 1: Stephen, Yeah, is this like a reset?

513
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:47,000
Speaker 4: Or do we go from the tour?

514
00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:49,920
Speaker 1: Should we flip a coin? Yeah? Flip the flip the

515
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:53,560
Speaker 1: coin the FBI coin. Yes, they gave us the way.

516
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:54,440
Speaker 1: What side do you want?

517
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,800
Speaker 2: The FBI guys gave us these commemorative coins that are

518
00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:00,720
Speaker 2: so cool looking. Yeah, I mean, they even brought us

519
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:04,280
Speaker 2: presents hot FBI agents brought us pens the best time.

520
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 1: It was, Oh my god.

521
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:10,440
Speaker 2: I rarely get like dumb struck or I'm like, can't

522
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:12,120
Speaker 2: figure out one good thing to say.

523
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:16,080
Speaker 3: And I just kept laughing and going really really and

524
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 3: like yeah, I almost started crying, which I don't usually do.

525
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:22,240
Speaker 3: And then every like the next ten people who we met,

526
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 3: I was like, those guys were.

527
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:26,520
Speaker 1: Like, so what all right?

528
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 3: So are you pick pick gold or blue? That's blue.

529
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 3: That's gold. This says Department of Justice, Federal Bureau of Investigation,

530
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:40,640
Speaker 3: counter counter Terror Terrorism Division, and gang it says, now

531
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:41,640
Speaker 3: it hasn't.

532
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,920
Speaker 1: The counter terrorism gang. You Yeah, you'll do it. One

533
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:48,040
Speaker 1: in the middle is blue, you know what I'm saying,

534
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 1: and that one's gold. Yeah. So Karen, you call it.

535
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:52,320
Speaker 1: I'll be blue. Can we flip a coin to see

536
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 1: who calls it? I'll be blue? You be gold? Okay, gold?

537
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:00,879
Speaker 1: Wait you blue? I'm wait. But we didn't say what

538
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 1: we're flipping to go first or last? Oh you get?

539
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 1: Do you oh? So you get? Do you like going

540
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:07,920
Speaker 1: first or do you like going last? I think it

541
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:08,959
Speaker 1: depends on the story.

542
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:12,159
Speaker 4: Do you mind slip to whoever gets it gets to

543
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:13,520
Speaker 4: choose what this.

544
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 1: Is suddenly really interested in what's happening.

545
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:18,440
Speaker 2: Georgia won that. So do you want to just pick

546
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:19,199
Speaker 2: what you want to do?

547
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:23,840
Speaker 1: I like going first? Do it? There's a real big bummer.

548
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 1: I mean, yes, so is mine it? I mean it's

549
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 1: a murder. It's like no, mine's super light harden. Yeah,

550
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:32,359
Speaker 1: there's nothing. It's it's not like an old one or whatever,

551
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:34,919
Speaker 1: but that it's a good one. Okay, do you so

552
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 1: you just do what you want? Okay, mine's pretty short, Okay,

553
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 1: and what I just love it? Like we can't even

554
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,720
Speaker 1: do a coin flip correctly. We're talking amazing.

555
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:50,200
Speaker 3: We like recommend these investigative journalism like fucking like next

556
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 3: level pieces of journalism podcasts, and.

557
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 1: Then we're like, flip, going to flip a coin? Steven?

558
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 1: Did we who went first? Just slop?

559
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:04,120
Speaker 3: It's so enjoyable slop in a charming wrapper?

560
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:06,360
Speaker 1: Yes, for sure, you know what I mean. I mean,

561
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:07,640
Speaker 1: let's hope.

562
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:09,920
Speaker 3: Like what kind of candy is really gross? And then

563
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:11,400
Speaker 3: you're like, oh, it looks so good.

564
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 2: Remember Rocky Road, which was dark chocolate covered y yes,

565
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:19,200
Speaker 2: marshmallows and like some weird nut maybe a walnut.

566
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 1: Chocolate and oh fuck, those were good? Did they not

567
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:22,879
Speaker 1: have them anywhere? Oh? I was? I was naming it

568
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:26,200
Speaker 1: as a bad one. Oh, I guess there's no candy

569
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 1: that's bad. Really, yeah, I guess you're right. Let's talk

570
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:30,360
Speaker 1: about candy for half an hour.

571
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 2: I actually, when we were leaving the airport, I fucking

572
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:36,200
Speaker 2: will talk about candy skippers. When I was leaving the airport,

573
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 2: it was in that place where we had traveled so much.

574
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,399
Speaker 2: I was so tired. I was so tired. And we

575
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:43,480
Speaker 2: got back on Monday, and I was supposed to do

576
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 2: a show that night. Right fucking bailed on it because

577
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:47,439
Speaker 2: I was like, by the time the show was going

578
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:49,399
Speaker 2: to start, it would have been two am my time,

579
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:51,200
Speaker 2: and I had been traveling all week.

580
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:52,679
Speaker 3: I was like, well, when you were going to do

581
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 3: another podcast on the way home, weren't you?

582
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,520
Speaker 2: I did here my other podcast, Do you need a ride?

583
00:26:57,920 --> 00:26:59,639
Speaker 2: I recorded one on the way home, honey.

584
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:01,679
Speaker 1: Then I go home. When I laid down, all of

585
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 1: my limbs turned to cement.

586
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 2: But when I was leaving the airport, I walked by

587
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 2: a seased candy cart and I was like, I can

588
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:13,120
Speaker 2: have seas candy. I got this voice in my head

589
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:15,920
Speaker 2: that was like it was my birthday. I don't even

590
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:17,919
Speaker 2: know what I was thinking, but I walked up and

591
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,440
Speaker 2: as I walked around the cart, I was just like, well,

592
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:22,920
Speaker 2: so what you're going to take a pound of candy.

593
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 1: Home and eat it? They don't have the singles. They

594
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 1: have like smaller boxes. But I got around.

595
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 2: I walked around the whole thing, and then I met

596
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:35,120
Speaker 2: a lady on the other side and I said there

597
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 2: were little tiny boxes of things, and I go, do

598
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:39,119
Speaker 2: you have tiny boxes of nuts and chees And she

599
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 2: was like, oh no, only one pound.

600
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:43,359
Speaker 1: And I was like, okay, bye, I've walked away before

601
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 1: anything else happens. Why don't they get samples in there

602
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 1: like they do that regular seas candy because it's like

603
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,240
Speaker 1: a weird kiosk and they don't, you know, next time?

604
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 1: Their lollipops are super satisfying.

605
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, those are good, except for there's too many flavors

606
00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 2: I don't like of the lollipops.

607
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 1: Is there a butterscotch I think I like that one, yeah,

608
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:04,400
Speaker 1: Or coffee? There's coffee, there's butterscut I mean, listen, when

609
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,879
Speaker 1: you guys come to California, that's our fucking Sea's candy.

610
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 1: You just bring it to whenever I see one.

611
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 3: I'm like, am I going anywhere soon that I need

612
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 3: to bring a box of Seascar?

613
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:14,639
Speaker 1: I know, you know that's our Christmas thing. We're like

614
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 1: Arnica thing. Really yeah, that's all.

615
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 2: We do is like you're going to go somewhere, you

616
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 2: grab one of those jeound boxes and nuts and cheese

617
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 2: and that's like the gift.

618
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 1: I like the soft centers though, do you perfect?

619
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 3: But are like dark meat, white meat, turkey thing. You

620
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 3: can share a chicken and a box of chocolates.

621
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 1: And everybody's going to be satisfied.

622
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 3: And what was I going to say? Yeah, we do

623
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 3: that too, just like a table and there's Jewish cookies

624
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 3: and sees boxes candy and everyone just sits around, talks

625
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 3: and eats too much.

626
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 1: And it's the best. So good. Shout out to Rugula.

627
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 1: That's just the best. Is the word that I just

628
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 1: shouted out of cookie. I love it. Fuck shout out

629
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 1: to a Rugula. Hello, just plain Ruglag is the lettuce?

630
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I'm not randomly shouting at a lettuce. It

631
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 1: wasn't that random. It was Jewish cookies.

632
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 2: And that's the one that you got at Michael's, the

633
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 2: the diner we went to after the show.

634
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 1: Right, No, that was that was it's where are we?

635
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 1: Shout out? I'm not sure? Do you want to start? Sure?

636
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:31,720
Speaker 1: All right, shout out Mary? See you really made some

637
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 1: good chance Mary. Oh I love her? Yeah, I meant

638
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 1: the little old lady in with the glasses and the shawl.

639
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 1: Is that made up?

640
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 3: I just recently found out that what's the cookie woman? No, wait,

641
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 3: that's not right, Lorna Dune. No, one of those people

642
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 3: are made up. Oh, probably Betty Crocker. Yeah, my friend's

643
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 3: reading a documentary on her. Is that a thing you

644
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 3: can read?

645
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 2: She told me that, yeah, waits just created by a company.

646
00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, which I think is not fair. It is pretty

647
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 1: fucked up. Okay, and we're back.

648
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:08,720
Speaker 2: Can you imagine us so instantly talking about our tour

649
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 2: weekend where we drove. We flew into one city, drove

650
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 2: to the next city, drove to the next city, and

651
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 2: then flew home.

652
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 1: No nasty. Who were we? Oh we were young. We

653
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 1: were young and naive and were like, oh, this is

654
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 1: what touring is. Yeah, totally three cities a weekend. No,

655
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 1: not anymore. We can't do that anymore. You guys, not

656
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 1: with our old bone. No, it's a young lady's game

657
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 1: and there.

658
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 2: Oh and that's the live show where the FBI guys.

659
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 2: We've talked about those fbies quite a bit.

660
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:36,479
Speaker 1: Over the years. That was pretty epic.

661
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 3: I think since then, we've definitely met a few people

662
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 3: who are from that branch of government.

663
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 1: Secret government types. That's right.

664
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 3: My niece in law, so Vince's sister's daughter works for

665
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 3: the FBI, which I can't talk about, but she's told

666
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 3: me a few things. Yeah, and it sounds pretty epic.

667
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 3: She's having a lot of fun.

668
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 2: What a cool thing to work to do as a

669
00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 2: young woman.

670
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's very Yeah, that's very cool. And so since then, also,

671
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 1: zach Efron had his star turn as Ted Bundy.

672
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 2: I mean, everybody loved the job he did on that.

673
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 2: I mean maybe they didn't like the thing overall, but

674
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:12,960
Speaker 2: it was like, I feel like everybody was impressed by

675
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 2: what he brought to the table.

676
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, and we're talking about the movie Extremely Wicked, Shockingly

677
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 3: Evil and Vile, which came out in twenty nineteen.

678
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 1: And yeah, he did a great job. Yeah, he's a

679
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 1: great act Is he going to not do a good job?

680
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 1: He's Zach fucking that frong. He's Zach Efron.

681
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 2: He's been nailing it since he was eleven, Like, come on.

682
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 1: Oh, and then it's so funny. So since then, I

683
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 1: was talking about season two if Someone Knows Something, and

684
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 1: they have now put out nine seasons yes as of

685
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five, and the host David Ridgin, who we adore,

686
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 1: also launched a new related series called The Next Call,

687
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 1: which continues the style of investigating cold cases in bringing

688
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 1: in family, eyewitnesses and suspects. He's so good at interviews.

689
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 2: I mean that sounds like exactly your kind of podcast.

690
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 1: It does. I'm going to go download now.

691
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 2: You know what's really funny is that Mysteries Abound as

692
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 2: a podcast. You can still listen to the over three

693
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 2: hundred episodes. But also he hosts a podcast called Unexplained

694
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 2: that when we went back on the road and you know,

695
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 2: the first time I like tuned out on an airplane,

696
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 2: that's what was.

697
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 1: In my ears. I forgot about that altogether.

698
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 2: It like makes you go to sleep, but it's also

699
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 2: compelling and it's like then you learn a little something.

700
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 2: I love it and we love Richard McLean Smith.

701
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:21,000
Speaker 1: We sure do.

702
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 2: He's a great podcaster, love his work and a great friend.

703
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 2: We met him when we were in Melbourne or Sydney, that's.

704
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 1: I forgot, and we were like, let me hear you talk,

705
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 1: Let's talk. It was hilarious and he was so bewildered.

706
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 1: He was just like, what the fuck is this?

707
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 2: Like he was just this lovely man got into podcasting,

708
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 2: you know, like, oh, I thought it would be interesting.

709
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 2: And then he said this some one of our shows

710
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 2: with the murder, you know, screaming at the top of

711
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 2: their lungs.

712
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 1: All right, should we get into some stories. Let's get in.

713
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 1: So let's get into Georgia's story about Keith Warren. Hey

714
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 1: speaking of fucked up? Yeah, yeah, this one's a bummer. Okay.

715
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:07,240
Speaker 1: So on July thirtieth, nineteen eighty six, or in nineteen

716
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 1: eighty six, and I can see the outfit I'm wearing or.

717
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 3: In an affluent community of Silver Spring, which is located

718
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:19,960
Speaker 3: in Maryland, and nineteen year old Keith Woodell Warren was

719
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 3: found hanging from a tree two days after he was

720
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 3: reported missing.

721
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 1: By his mother.

722
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 3: Keith, who's an African American, had been accepted into North

723
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 3: Carolina Central University and was set to go in the fall,

724
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 3: but he was currently home for the summer, making money

725
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 3: and saving it up to go away handsome right. Everyone

726
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 3: said he was a good kid, you know, good good

727
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 3: in school. He did have some depression issues, but in

728
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 3: his recent in his recent past, his parents had divorce,

729
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 3: but he had a bright future. So on so July thirty,

730
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 3: thirteen eighty six, a woman walking her dog dog had

731
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 3: found Keith in a wooded area near his family's home.

732
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 3: His body was hanging from a small tree by his

733
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:07,840
Speaker 3: neck and the tree was bent double with his waists.

734
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:10,919
Speaker 3: The cord was elaborately hung and anchored around the base

735
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 3: of the tree, and it was twenty five feet then

736
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 3: to a small sapling, So it was like this elaborate

737
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 3: kind of hanging mechanism and then I encircled with sapling's

738
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:25,400
Speaker 3: trunk arched through a fork. The first paramedic who arrived

739
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:27,799
Speaker 3: on the scene said that he immediately knew it was

740
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 3: a stage hanging ooh, and so he didn't touch the

741
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:31,399
Speaker 3: body at all.

742
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:32,919
Speaker 1: He was waiting for the police to arrive.

743
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:36,279
Speaker 3: Nice, but the officer and detective who arrived at the

744
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 3: scene released that paramedic.

745
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:41,240
Speaker 1: The officer stated that.

746
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,920
Speaker 3: This was interfering with his lunch break, and they didn't

747
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,719
Speaker 3: cordon off the area, and the scene was trampled, and

748
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:53,439
Speaker 3: I of course looked up his name and warning immediately

749
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:56,120
Speaker 3: crime scene photos come up. Oh but you can see

750
00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 3: in the background of one of them just some fucking

751
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:01,880
Speaker 3: shirtless dude hanging out staring at the body. So they

752
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:04,600
Speaker 3: hadn't even taken it down yet, and there was a guy,

753
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:08,839
Speaker 3: you know, maybe not even ten feet just hanging out.

754
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,880
Speaker 1: WHOA, yeah, okay, it's like some hippie dude. So this

755
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:15,879
Speaker 1: was before they understood how but didn't it I don't

756
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,839
Speaker 1: think so, It's just it was just Yeah, I think

757
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:21,680
Speaker 1: when we read about a lot of these fucked up

758
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:24,719
Speaker 1: crimes that happens, But I don't think that that was

759
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 1: a normal procedure. I can't imagine. Yeah, let us know,

760
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:29,400
Speaker 1: cops from the eighty six.

761
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, when did they When did they really know that

762
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 2: you had to lock down a crime scene and no

763
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 2: one got to come look be near it like a whole?

764
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:40,719
Speaker 1: Like what do they call that? Establish a perimeter? Like?

765
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 3: I want to know as well, when did they start

766
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:46,320
Speaker 3: wearing gloves and stop smoking at the crime scene? Yea, cops,

767
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 3: you know what I mean it had to be in

768
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,400
Speaker 3: somewhere in the nineties, because even oj Simpson's crime scene

769
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,239
Speaker 3: was handled without gloves, which they definitely should have known

770
00:35:54,280 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 3: by then. Yes, right, anyways, Wow, okay, it gets where Okay.

771
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 3: Despite the obvious discrepancies, authorities didn't see anything wrong with

772
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 3: the scene, and after a brief visual inspection, the County

773
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:14,560
Speaker 3: Department Medical Examiner determined that Keith Worne had committed suicide.

774
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:17,960
Speaker 3: No autopsy was ordered, the body was sent directly to

775
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 3: a funeral home. The detective chose it, and this was

776
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 3: all that happened. Oh and his body was embalmed all

777
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:30,280
Speaker 3: before his mother was even aware of his death.

778
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 2: What.

779
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, that's simply not procedure.

780
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 3: No, I can't be well, back then you didn't need

781
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 3: to perform an autopsy on a suicide, but it was

782
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 3: definitely suspicious.

783
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:45,840
Speaker 1: The embalming that kind of thing is the parent's decision. Yes.

784
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 3: And also, he wasn't taken to a morgue. He was

785
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 3: taking to a funeral home. I think the funeral director

786
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,239
Speaker 3: didn't really get any information about what was going on,

787
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:55,720
Speaker 3: so he just thought he was supposed to embalm the body.

788
00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:00,239
Speaker 2: But silver Spring, do you know a smaller place. Could

789
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 2: they use that excuse that this was like small town

790
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:03,399
Speaker 2: they're not used to.

791
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 3: From what I can tell, I don't know if it was,

792
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:07,880
Speaker 3: if it was just the community or what, but it

793
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 3: was like seventy thousand.

794
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:11,879
Speaker 1: People, okay, not huge, no, okay, but.

795
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 3: It was like a It was like forty minutes from Philly.

796
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 3: It was like not far from DC. So it's not rural.

797
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 3: It's rural. How do you say that? I can never

798
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:23,920
Speaker 3: hear saying it, right. It's just a weird word.

799
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 1: It's just stupid. Yeah, Okay.

800
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 3: So by the six hours after he had been found,

801
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 3: his mother was finally told about it, and by then

802
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:34,719
Speaker 3: he had been embalmed.

803
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:38,360
Speaker 1: I mean, that's unacceptable, I know. Okay.

804
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:40,759
Speaker 3: When the family asked for his clothing that he even

805
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 3: wearing at the time, the funeral home informed them that

806
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 3: most of it had been destroyed because of the decay

807
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:49,120
Speaker 3: of the body had ruined them. So they just got

808
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:53,799
Speaker 3: rid of the decayed body clothes, okay. They were only

809
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 3: given his jacket and a pair of brown boots. And

810
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:01,759
Speaker 3: from I can say from those from those crime scene

811
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:03,440
Speaker 3: photos that I of course looked at all of them

812
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:06,040
Speaker 3: and almost started crying. Because I have to look at

813
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:10,160
Speaker 3: them because I'm a fucking weirdo. He wasn't decayed at all.

814
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:12,880
Speaker 3: He wasn't decaying. He was found two days after he

815
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:15,319
Speaker 3: went missing. Don't know how long he is up there,

816
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 3: but he looks like.

817
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:20,400
Speaker 1: He had gotten there recently.

818
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:23,640
Speaker 3: There is nothing about him that looks like what you

819
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 3: would expect from a hanging, which is a lot of

820
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:30,719
Speaker 3: really grotesque things happened to you, right, There was no

821
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:36,359
Speaker 3: indication that he was decayed anyways. Later when his mom

822
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:39,360
Speaker 3: attempted to visit the tree to pray there because she

823
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:42,799
Speaker 3: was so fucking heartbroken, she got there and realized the

824
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:46,600
Speaker 3: tree had been cut down. What yeah, okay, taken into

825
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 3: evidence by the police, which his mother was like, if

826
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:51,799
Speaker 3: this is a suicide and the case was closed, which

827
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:53,760
Speaker 3: it was, why are you taking evidence?

828
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:54,719
Speaker 1: That's exactly right.

829
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're taking an evidence for a suicide and a

830
00:38:58,080 --> 00:38:59,239
Speaker 2: clothes you don't do.

831
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 1: You're not taking evidence from the body. But you are

832
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 1: taking the.

833
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 3: Tree, definitely, And the tree couldn't be found or maybe

834
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 3: it was destroyed in a fire. I couldn't really, there's

835
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:11,799
Speaker 3: no Wikipedia about this.

836
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:14,319
Speaker 1: There's like not a lot of shit. A lot of

837
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:15,359
Speaker 1: the articles are just.

838
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 3: You know, the same stuff regurgitated because there's just not

839
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:21,120
Speaker 3: a ton of information out there. I couldn't believe there

840
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:24,239
Speaker 3: was an a Wikipedia about this. Yeah, so I had

841
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:24,520
Speaker 3: to do.

842
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:25,280
Speaker 1: A lot of work.

843
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:29,759
Speaker 3: So Mary had doubts, but it really wasn't untel. She

844
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:33,040
Speaker 3: heard from a friend of Keith's that she really got.

845
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 1: Suspicious. Thank you.

846
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:39,440
Speaker 3: So Rodney Kendall was a friend of hers and said

847
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:43,320
Speaker 3: that he had seen a car full of black mails

848
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 3: looking for Keith shortly before his death. Rodney told him

849
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:50,800
Speaker 3: they hadn't seen Keith and they immediately left. Then several

850
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 3: days later, Rodney had another odd encounter with a high

851
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:58,839
Speaker 3: school acquaintance of both of theirs, name Mark Finley, and

852
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:01,280
Speaker 3: he said he seemed pretty I thought it was strange

853
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 3: because he acted like he needed to find Keith very quickly,

854
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:05,880
Speaker 3: and I told him I didn't know where he was

855
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 3: and he left. So all these people searching for him weird.

856
00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:12,759
Speaker 3: The Marilyn County p D refused to hand over the

857
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 3: photos taken at the crime scene to his mother because

858
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:18,360
Speaker 3: he said they would be too difficult for her to see.

859
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:20,799
Speaker 1: So she's asking to see him and I say no.

860
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 3: And they said that she should have a closed casket too,

861
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:28,719
Speaker 3: So April in nineteen ninety two.

862
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:30,279
Speaker 1: So this happened in eighty six.

863
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 3: It wasn't until ninety two, which would have been her

864
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:37,760
Speaker 3: son's twenty fifth birthday exactly. Mary found a plane manilla

865
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:42,960
Speaker 3: envelope on her doorstep, Anonymous, and inside there were five pictures,

866
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:46,759
Speaker 3: each showing a different view of Keith's hanging by his neck.

867
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 1: So those are the photos that I saw.

868
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:52,120
Speaker 3: Whoa yeah, and so it's from the back. It's I mean,

869
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:56,880
Speaker 3: a close up of his face. It's just it's so heartbreaking.

870
00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 3: His face is so sweet and like young. So she

871
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 3: saw the photos and she found glaring discrepancies, including his

872
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:11,319
Speaker 3: clothes didn't fit him, that he was wearing, which made

873
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:13,400
Speaker 3: her think she was he was wearing someone else's clothes.

874
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:18,360
Speaker 3: There was no decomposition, which the funeral told her, funeral

875
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:22,640
Speaker 3: home told her there was. And also he was wearing

876
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:25,160
Speaker 3: in the photographs. Remember he had they had given him

877
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:27,239
Speaker 3: brown boots at the funeral home.

878
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 1: He was wearing white sneakers in the photographs. Yeah what fuck? Yeah.

879
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 3: There was a note attached to all these photos that said,

880
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:40,640
Speaker 3: don't worry, Mark Finley will be next. And Mark Finley

881
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 3: was the kid who said that he had seen people

882
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:47,920
Speaker 3: asking for Keith. So the family hired private detective Joe

883
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:53,520
Speaker 3: Alercia I think, who, in addition to these discrepancies, also

884
00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 3: saw that And this is the fucking point of it

885
00:41:56,200 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 3: that always gives me chills. So Keith had on the

886
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 3: back of his jacket leaves and debris, meaning he and

887
00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:09,319
Speaker 3: he didn't land on his back, meaning they started to

888
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:12,279
Speaker 3: think that he had been brought there and hoisted it up.

889
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:20,640
Speaker 3: So so the family also then hired a renowned forensic pathologist,

890
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:27,440
Speaker 3: is Ador Melocus, who exhumed Keith's body and did a

891
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 3: toxicology report, which they never fucking did originally, which is insane, right, Like,

892
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 3: even not an autopsy, a toxicology report is just seems

893
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 3: like a basic you know.

894
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:42,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you're just looking for information of what happened,

895
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:43,920
Speaker 1: how did he kill himself, what state of mind was

896
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:44,800
Speaker 1: in at the time.

897
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:47,360
Speaker 2: And also just that the family would want the difference

898
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:50,640
Speaker 2: between somebody who has hung themselves and somebody who has

899
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 2: died under suspicious circumstances. You to give a family a

900
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 2: story of your son killed himself is a totally different

901
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 2: narrative and says something about your son that then you

902
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:05,200
Speaker 2: have to live with, whereas your son being a victim

903
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:07,360
Speaker 2: of a murder is a completely down story.

904
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:10,719
Speaker 1: It's just like no answers, he had no answers. Yeah.

905
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:13,439
Speaker 3: Well, and someone you know, there is something too about

906
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:17,080
Speaker 3: the fact that they saw a young black man hanging.

907
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:17,359
Speaker 1: From a tree.

908
00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:20,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, and im mediate liquid suicide where it's like someone said,

909
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:24,160
Speaker 3: it reminded me of the old South, Yeah, and hangings and.

910
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:24,800
Speaker 1: Not that old.

911
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:29,520
Speaker 3: I mean, it's still happened by fucking racist motherfuckers at

912
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:33,080
Speaker 3: the time, right, So to see him hanging suspiciously, and

913
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:35,239
Speaker 3: I saw it his legs his feet are on the

914
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:38,160
Speaker 3: ground and his legs are kind of bent forward, so

915
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:40,760
Speaker 3: he's almost in like if he were in a sitting

916
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:42,760
Speaker 3: position with his legs forward, and then it got hoisted

917
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:45,520
Speaker 3: up a little, so he wasn't hanging right. And it

918
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:51,800
Speaker 3: was definitely, like you know, indicative of lynching. Yes, is

919
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 3: indicative the right word? Yes, I mean, yeah, great. But

920
00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:59,640
Speaker 3: also it's that thing of yeah, that's to.

921
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 1: Rush all of that away, not to immediately at the

922
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 1: scene say suicide. No nope, no no, yeah, sorry, I

923
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:13,760
Speaker 1: didn't mean to rap you. No, no, no, that's I'm

924
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 1: agreeing with you and going with what you're telling me,

925
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 1: and it's very upsetting.

926
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:20,759
Speaker 3: Okay, your gall Yeah, I will listen to it. Yeah

927
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 3: gall No, it is okay man. This is called question

928
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:34,399
Speaker 3: yourself corner right by Georgia So Okay. Toxicology report analysis

929
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:40,439
Speaker 3: reveals abnormally elevated amounts of here we go trichlora, methane,

930
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:45,280
Speaker 3: methane tricole or methane okay, solvent found in paints and laquers,

931
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:49,279
Speaker 3: and powerful chemicals that are usually found in glue and solvents. So,

932
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:55,200
Speaker 3: according to doctor Isidora uh Mahallakis, the levels found in

933
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:57,359
Speaker 3: Keith's body were more than enough to kill him.

934
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:03,319
Speaker 1: And this is a body that has already been what

935
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:08,440
Speaker 1: do you call it, embalmed, embalm and buried.

936
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:11,919
Speaker 3: So there was the argument that maybe they came from

937
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:13,400
Speaker 3: the embalming, maybe they came.

938
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 1: From the soil where he's buried. Yeah, but it was pretty,

939
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:19,160
Speaker 1: it was pretty The doctor felt sure that it was

940
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:19,560
Speaker 1: not that.

941
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:22,360
Speaker 3: Because they weren't chemicals used in that, Okay, And they weren't,

942
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:24,759
Speaker 3: you know, they were at high enough levels that it

943
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:28,880
Speaker 3: wouldn't have been absorbed if it was in the soil. Okay,

944
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:32,320
Speaker 3: So you know, it's the it's the argument, is it

945
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:32,880
Speaker 3: or isn't it?

946
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 2: You know, And but the doctors saying, I'm fine, I

947
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:37,560
Speaker 2: know what I'm looking at, I know what the situation was,

948
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 2: and I'm finding these chemicals there anyway, and that's highly suspicious.

949
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:46,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, but the other side probably we're just as sure

950
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:47,280
Speaker 3: that it wasn't true.

951
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:49,799
Speaker 2: Well, the thing is, once you've embalm my body, you

952
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:52,319
Speaker 2: can't fucking say anything for sure, which is why you

953
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:53,759
Speaker 2: don't rush to embalm.

954
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 3: I mean that one is the biggest glaring thing of

955
00:45:56,960 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 3: that's the biggest fuck up.

956
00:45:58,080 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, what do you or cover up?

957
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:00,640
Speaker 3: Yeah?

958
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:05,320
Speaker 1: Okay for sure? Okay, m hm okay.

959
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:07,840
Speaker 3: Based on the high levels of this chemical in the

960
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:11,279
Speaker 3: victim's body, the doctor concluded that severe mental confusion would

961
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:15,120
Speaker 3: have resulted and impair decision making of routine actions, so

962
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:18,280
Speaker 3: he couldn't even decide to kill himself if he wanted to, Okay.

963
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:22,440
Speaker 3: Outside investigators claimed that the way he had apparently hung

964
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:26,359
Speaker 3: himself was practically impossible due to the small tree and

965
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:29,200
Speaker 3: the fact that two ropes were used in the suicide.

966
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:32,000
Speaker 3: Tryn to totally understand, because you can still if you

967
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:34,400
Speaker 3: want to kill yourself and you need two ropes, you can.

968
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:36,000
Speaker 1: Still do I guess they were.

969
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:37,960
Speaker 2: What they were saying is the way that's set up,

970
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:39,920
Speaker 2: And what it sounded like is they were using a

971
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:43,320
Speaker 2: long tree against the other boys. That it was, Yeah,

972
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:45,520
Speaker 2: that basically you can't do that by yourself.

973
00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:47,239
Speaker 3: So all he would have needed to hang himself was

974
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:50,240
Speaker 3: run rope and one tree not and there was nowhere

975
00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:53,520
Speaker 3: for him to jump off of either. Yeah, so I

976
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:55,600
Speaker 3: don't I think it's probably you know, they were like, well,

977
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:57,680
Speaker 3: you can. You can hang yourself any way you want.

978
00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 3: But I feel like, in the same way that you

979
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:03,919
Speaker 3: when people try to drown themselves, you just can't allow yourself.

980
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:05,840
Speaker 1: To do that. There's some something deep in you that

981
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:09,360
Speaker 1: stands up or gets out of Yeah, there's the fight

982
00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:11,360
Speaker 1: in instinct inside of you.

983
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:15,279
Speaker 3: Right, So there's that. And then he said, I do

984
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:17,120
Speaker 3: not believe that he would out of the ability to

985
00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:19,200
Speaker 3: hang himself, and for that matter, he would not have

986
00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:22,880
Speaker 3: the ability to make the decision about hanging himself, And

987
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:25,200
Speaker 3: so he ruled the death that the death must be

988
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:29,080
Speaker 3: investigated as a homicide. The family appealed to the Maryland

989
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:32,360
Speaker 3: County PD and eventually the United States Attorney General Janet

990
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:36,319
Speaker 3: Reno for colonel investigation into the death, as well as

991
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:39,920
Speaker 3: the subsequent actions of the police department. All requests have

992
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:43,680
Speaker 3: been denied. Oh yeah, so here's what I wrote. So

993
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:46,719
Speaker 3: how did Keith die? And these are kind of taken

994
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 3: all over the internet of ideas. Did the overdose on

995
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:54,320
Speaker 3: solvents found in uh that were found in his body.

996
00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:57,520
Speaker 3: He was at a party with friends, maybe they were huffing,

997
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:00,880
Speaker 3: maybe they were doing drugs and he owos and his

998
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:03,560
Speaker 3: friends panicked and staged his death to look like a

999
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:06,640
Speaker 3: suicide to avoid police, right, which would make sense of

1000
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:09,239
Speaker 3: his clothes being changed, because maybe he vomited all over

1001
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:12,319
Speaker 3: his clothing. Maybe there was blood on that and so

1002
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:16,400
Speaker 3: that's why they changed his clothes, including his shoes, and

1003
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 3: they just wanted to make it look like a suicide.

1004
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:21,960
Speaker 3: Or did someone you know come from behind with a

1005
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:25,839
Speaker 3: rag and that's why he had to stop ins inside him.

1006
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:29,640
Speaker 3: So it wasn't his choice. Yeah, his backpack had some

1007
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:31,680
Speaker 3: of his favorite tapes in it, which points to him

1008
00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:33,920
Speaker 3: maybe going to a party. That's just in my opinion,

1009
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:37,480
Speaker 3: Like you know, when you're going out with friends, you're like,

1010
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:38,919
Speaker 3: I'll bring some music, we're going to hang.

1011
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:41,400
Speaker 2: Out, right, because back in I will say this, in

1012
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:46,319
Speaker 2: the eighties, you didn't you didn't travel with tapes. Like

1013
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 2: you would make one mixtape maybe and bring it somewhere,

1014
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:51,920
Speaker 2: but like usually left that either at home or in

1015
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:54,320
Speaker 2: your car because they were just such a pain.

1016
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:57,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, So he had his backpack favorite tapes in it,

1017
00:48:57,520 --> 00:48:59,920
Speaker 3: which makes me think it's someone he was going to,

1018
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:02,640
Speaker 3: is someone he knew in that what just that I

1019
00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:05,160
Speaker 3: was thinking about. It's like party plan. If it was

1020
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:08,000
Speaker 3: a party he worked about a mixtape, one or two tapes.

1021
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:09,799
Speaker 3: If it was his friends, he'd be like, I want

1022
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:13,000
Speaker 3: you to hear this tape, this new one, this one's great.

1023
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:15,560
Speaker 1: Right, Does that make any sense? I think? So that's

1024
00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:17,960
Speaker 1: off the top of my head and clearly just speculation.

1025
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:18,960
Speaker 1: We're just speculating.

1026
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:24,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, So, okay, some people thought that he may have

1027
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:29,200
Speaker 3: been and this is on like you know Wiki, uh,

1028
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:32,359
Speaker 3: what's it, Reddit and shit, that he may have been

1029
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:35,440
Speaker 3: an informant to the police and he was found out

1030
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:37,120
Speaker 3: by the local drug dealers, which might have been the

1031
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:40,160
Speaker 3: guys in the car, and they were looking for him

1032
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:43,120
Speaker 3: and killed him, which makes sense that the cops would

1033
00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:45,960
Speaker 3: cover it up. Because they don't want everyone to know

1034
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:47,360
Speaker 3: that they caused a murder.

1035
00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:49,960
Speaker 1: Yes, which is actually I keep trying to find this

1036
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:51,879
Speaker 1: murder that I found out about long time ago.

1037
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:54,640
Speaker 3: There was this girl. It's kind of small town. The

1038
00:49:54,719 --> 00:49:57,600
Speaker 3: cops found all this LSD on her and said, you're

1039
00:49:57,719 --> 00:49:59,880
Speaker 3: going to jail forever or you need to be our informant.

1040
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:02,520
Speaker 3: The guys, the drug dealers, she went over there wired

1041
00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:04,759
Speaker 3: they found out shot her in the fucking head.

1042
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:06,640
Speaker 1: But it took them a long time to find out

1043
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:08,840
Speaker 1: about that. I can't find that one. I think I

1044
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:11,760
Speaker 1: remember you telling me about that one. It sounds familious.

1045
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:12,719
Speaker 1: It's always stuck with me.

1046
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:19,800
Speaker 3: Took the sweet hippie you know in the nineties, hippie girl. Yeah, okay,

1047
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:23,480
Speaker 3: So was it a hate crime? Very well could have been.

1048
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:27,600
Speaker 3: Did he actually somehow commit suicide? I mean, that's always

1049
00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:31,840
Speaker 3: an option to it's not gone. So, in a final

1050
00:50:31,960 --> 00:50:35,520
Speaker 3: disturbing twist, the one person who may have been able

1051
00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:39,840
Speaker 3: to answer those questions turned up dead under suspicious circumstance.

1052
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:41,160
Speaker 1: Mark Finley. Mark Finley, Oh shit.

1053
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:46,680
Speaker 3: When he was one of the guys who came looking

1054
00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:48,560
Speaker 3: for Keith a few days before he died, and his

1055
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:50,840
Speaker 3: mother had received the package. It said to Mark Finley's

1056
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:55,280
Speaker 3: next she told him and he said to her that

1057
00:50:56,239 --> 00:51:00,560
Speaker 3: he would be by to see her soon, and she said,

1058
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:05,160
Speaker 3: he said, I need to unload. So maybe he was

1059
00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:08,120
Speaker 3: one of the friends at the party. Maybe he knew something.

1060
00:51:09,239 --> 00:51:12,480
Speaker 3: So one month after she received those photos and talked

1061
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:16,040
Speaker 3: to him, he was dead. According to police, he died

1062
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:18,720
Speaker 3: accidentally when he was struck when he struck a curb

1063
00:51:19,600 --> 00:51:21,840
Speaker 3: on his bike and was thrown off in what was

1064
00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:26,160
Speaker 3: described as a freak accident. However, according to paramedics who

1065
00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:28,799
Speaker 3: were on the scene, his wounds were not consistent with

1066
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:31,560
Speaker 3: a bicycle accident. His wounds were more consistent with being

1067
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:34,080
Speaker 3: hit by a car or being hit with a baseball bat.

1068
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:38,880
Speaker 3: Oh man, his wounds were greater that could have been

1069
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:43,240
Speaker 3: than that falling would have caused, especially in the location

1070
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:49,200
Speaker 3: where it allegedly took place. So his mother, Mary Cooey,

1071
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:52,760
Speaker 3: died suddenly in May May twenty fifth, in two thousand

1072
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:53,239
Speaker 3: and nine.

1073
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:54,480
Speaker 1: And she ded a keys mother.

1074
00:51:54,719 --> 00:51:59,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, she dedicated her life after that finding justice.

1075
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:04,600
Speaker 1: They spent a lot of money. They had what's it

1076
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:10,920
Speaker 1: called awards for finding her information reward? Yes, yeah, not

1077
00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:17,040
Speaker 1: awards well, monetary awards or as we know them, rewards. Yes, yes,

1078
00:52:17,239 --> 00:52:21,200
Speaker 1: thank you awards too positive for this, I mean listen.

1079
00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:26,680
Speaker 1: So she died, never found any justice but her, but

1080
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:30,960
Speaker 1: Keith's sister, little sister, Sherry Warren, has taken up her

1081
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:33,759
Speaker 1: mom's fight. She says that even if he died of

1082
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:37,279
Speaker 1: an accidental overdose, she still wants the Maryland County PD

1083
00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:41,640
Speaker 1: to be held accountable. Yeah, actions, so she organizes marches.

1084
00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:46,400
Speaker 1: She is still looking for answers. There's still rewards out there,

1085
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:50,440
Speaker 1: and she just wants answers. Yeah.

1086
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:54,520
Speaker 2: Also, just that idea, it's just that thing of like

1087
00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:56,640
Speaker 2: what they if something.

1088
00:52:56,320 --> 00:52:59,880
Speaker 1: Procedurally is so screwed up that they they're.

1089
00:52:59,640 --> 00:53:01,680
Speaker 2: Taking pictures of a dead body and then there's just

1090
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:04,600
Speaker 2: kind of a dude loitering in the background, or there's

1091
00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:07,359
Speaker 2: no perimeter on the crime scene, or there's no or

1092
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:12,080
Speaker 2: they're rushing a body to be taken to the funeral home,

1093
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:16,279
Speaker 2: like all of those things, aside from the injustice to

1094
00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:19,040
Speaker 2: this family and to this victim. They can't do it

1095
00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:21,400
Speaker 2: that way ever. Again, So it's that idea too, that

1096
00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:25,719
Speaker 2: like this, it's just that thing of the crime procedure

1097
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:29,279
Speaker 2: cannot be that screwed up, like you just have to

1098
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:32,280
Speaker 2: learn from those mistakes. Say, it's all a mistake. Yeah,

1099
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:36,000
Speaker 2: best case scenario, it's just a series of terrible mistakes.

1100
00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:39,839
Speaker 3: Especially because those people who were there at the time

1101
00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:43,200
Speaker 3: are probably not on the force anymore. They probably retired. Yeah,

1102
00:53:43,239 --> 00:53:46,440
Speaker 3: so it's kind of admitting. It's a thing of like

1103
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:50,120
Speaker 3: when you hear on these onlike, you know, forty eight

1104
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:53,080
Speaker 3: hours and all these things of like cops saying or

1105
00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:56,359
Speaker 3: detectives saying, yeah, we did that wrong and we learned

1106
00:53:56,360 --> 00:53:59,560
Speaker 3: from it. It's so refreshing to hear because everyone makes mistakes,

1107
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:03,440
Speaker 3: you know, and we're fucking big on the eighties and

1108
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:06,279
Speaker 3: nineties and before that being fucked up in terms of

1109
00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:08,399
Speaker 3: you know, procedures.

1110
00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:11,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it is, and it is tough because you know,

1111
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:17,440
Speaker 2: to be involved in uh, in crime, in stopping crime,

1112
00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:21,160
Speaker 2: you have to be a big tough man who is

1113
00:54:21,239 --> 00:54:23,520
Speaker 2: brave and faces the worst.

1114
00:54:23,239 --> 00:54:25,440
Speaker 1: Of all society all day every day.

1115
00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:28,960
Speaker 2: And so admit it and get being flexible and being

1116
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:31,719
Speaker 2: able to admit mistakes and all those kinds of things

1117
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:33,600
Speaker 2: don't go along with that persona.

1118
00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:35,719
Speaker 1: And I think that's changing too.

1119
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:38,839
Speaker 2: It's that thing of like it's the no one's looking

1120
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:40,520
Speaker 2: for you to be the like Texas ranger.

1121
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:43,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, or do every single thing correctly. Yeah.

1122
00:54:43,239 --> 00:54:46,759
Speaker 3: People make mistakes and it's like, you know, one guy

1123
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:50,359
Speaker 3: in the on the forest believes it's not what it is.

1124
00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:52,960
Speaker 1: He's not going to fight with every other guye on there.

1125
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:53,680
Speaker 1: He's a woman.

1126
00:54:53,880 --> 00:54:56,560
Speaker 3: He's not gonna fight with his fucking boss. You know,

1127
00:54:56,640 --> 00:55:00,719
Speaker 3: you get labeled snitch and you know, right.

1128
00:55:00,719 --> 00:55:04,520
Speaker 1: Or troublemaker or whatever from what we know on Law

1129
00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:06,440
Speaker 1: and Order, all the shit you get put on and

1130
00:55:06,560 --> 00:55:08,760
Speaker 1: get desk job, death duty after that.

1131
00:55:08,560 --> 00:55:11,080
Speaker 2: That's exactly right. It's all political. I mean, it's it's

1132
00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:14,319
Speaker 2: political where it shouldn't be. But wow, that's amazing. It's

1133
00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:17,359
Speaker 2: the fact I just can't believe there's not more on that. Yeah,

1134
00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:21,160
Speaker 2: more on that, especially because well it also kind of

1135
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:24,279
Speaker 2: goes to show that I feel like in this day

1136
00:55:24,280 --> 00:55:27,799
Speaker 2: and age, because that is such a a black man

1137
00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:31,760
Speaker 2: being hung hung and having that not fully and thoroughly

1138
00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:33,120
Speaker 2: looked into is such a.

1139
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:36,319
Speaker 1: It is so problematic.

1140
00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:40,480
Speaker 2: It's such a like the kind of thing that I

1141
00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:42,320
Speaker 2: think people are working very hard to make sure it

1142
00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:45,920
Speaker 2: doesn't get swept under the rug anymore, hopefully.

1143
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:48,880
Speaker 3: And to be Fair Case File did an episode on

1144
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:52,440
Speaker 3: this like in January, so it's not nobody's you know,

1145
00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:53,839
Speaker 3: episode forty three.

1146
00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:58,680
Speaker 1: He does, you know his story as well, So I

1147
00:55:58,680 --> 00:55:59,280
Speaker 1: don't want.

1148
00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:02,480
Speaker 3: To not give them a shout out him a shout out.

1149
00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:06,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, but yeah, it's fucked up, man, Let's open that

1150
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:06,839
Speaker 1: back up.

1151
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:12,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd love to know the answer to that. That's crazy.

1152
00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:15,480
Speaker 1: Okay, we're back. Do you have any updates on this case?

1153
00:56:15,680 --> 00:56:16,319
Speaker 1: I do so.

1154
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:20,000
Speaker 3: Keith's sister, Sherry, continues to fight for justice, recently taking

1155
00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:23,160
Speaker 3: Keith's case to a panel of medical examiners. The panel

1156
00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:26,680
Speaker 3: concluded that there's nothing medically to sustain a suicide ruling

1157
00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:29,439
Speaker 3: in his death, so Sherry asks the state to change

1158
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:34,520
Speaker 3: his death certificate. The Maryland Medical Examiner has since reclassified

1159
00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:39,719
Speaker 3: Keith's manner of death to undetermined, so it's a step forward. Unfortunately, though,

1160
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:43,080
Speaker 3: Keith's case remains closed for now, but in twenty twenty four,

1161
00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:47,719
Speaker 3: Maryland passed the Death Reclassification Act, which requires police to

1162
00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:51,720
Speaker 3: reopen or reinvestigate cases where a death certificate has been changed.

1163
00:56:52,560 --> 00:56:54,840
Speaker 3: Sherry is hopeful that this new law will apply to

1164
00:56:54,920 --> 00:56:57,719
Speaker 3: Keith's case, and has said that once the case is reopened,

1165
00:56:57,800 --> 00:57:00,399
Speaker 3: she will be able to rest Sary's journy to find

1166
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:03,759
Speaker 3: the truth has been documented in Uprooted, a three part

1167
00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:08,319
Speaker 3: docuseries available on HBO Max. And then also just to

1168
00:57:08,360 --> 00:57:10,680
Speaker 3: point out that when we covered Keith Worne's death in

1169
00:57:10,680 --> 00:57:14,160
Speaker 3: twenty seventeen, we couldn't have known that a nearly identical

1170
00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:17,160
Speaker 3: tragedy would be in the headlines again in twenty twenty five.

1171
00:57:17,520 --> 00:57:20,360
Speaker 3: D Maar Trevion read Alton, known as Trey, was a

1172
00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:22,760
Speaker 3: young black man with his whole future ahead of him,

1173
00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:25,640
Speaker 3: who was a student at Delta State University, and on

1174
00:57:25,680 --> 00:57:30,320
Speaker 3: September fifteenth, twenty twenty five, just so recently, his body

1175
00:57:30,400 --> 00:57:33,280
Speaker 3: was found hanging from a tree on campus and police

1176
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:37,680
Speaker 3: ruled a suicide almost immediately. Just like Keith's case, questions

1177
00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:40,880
Speaker 3: started piling up right away because the scene didn't make sense,

1178
00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:45,040
Speaker 3: evidence was mishandled, and the ruling just felt rushed. Decades apart,

1179
00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:48,440
Speaker 3: these cases share the same disturbing pattern. Both families have

1180
00:57:48,560 --> 00:57:53,560
Speaker 3: fought to have the deaths investigated as possible homicides, not suicides,

1181
00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:56,840
Speaker 3: and both families have had to push back against indifference

1182
00:57:56,920 --> 00:58:00,760
Speaker 3: from law enforcement. Civil rights lawyer Ben Crump is representing

1183
00:58:00,760 --> 00:58:04,520
Speaker 3: the family. Colin Kaepernick's No Your Rights Camp is funding

1184
00:58:04,560 --> 00:58:07,000
Speaker 3: an independent autopsy, which is incredible.

1185
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:09,480
Speaker 2: You know, there's a lot of black creators on TikTok

1186
00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:12,880
Speaker 2: that I've seen when this story broke, just getting on

1187
00:58:13,080 --> 00:58:18,800
Speaker 2: and saying black men do not go to trees. It's

1188
00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:23,440
Speaker 2: absolutely insane to buy into that story, even for one moment,

1189
00:58:23,720 --> 00:58:26,880
Speaker 2: knowing even a little bit about American history. That is

1190
00:58:26,920 --> 00:58:30,919
Speaker 2: an insane, like excuse belief that it would be any

1191
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:32,360
Speaker 2: kind of sugi.

1192
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:35,760
Speaker 1: It's an immediately suspicious based on history.

1193
00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:38,280
Speaker 2: And it's also a dog whistle. And it's also where

1194
00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:40,480
Speaker 2: we are in this country where those kinds of things

1195
00:58:40,520 --> 00:58:43,200
Speaker 2: thinking that they can come back or that people are

1196
00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:43,960
Speaker 2: going to stand by.

1197
00:58:44,280 --> 00:58:47,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, let's get into your story, Karen, about

1198
00:58:47,920 --> 00:58:49,720
Speaker 3: the Riverside County serial killer.

1199
00:58:56,080 --> 00:59:01,240
Speaker 2: Mine's fucked up to congratulations, So we managed caring so

1200
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:06,160
Speaker 2: rare that you find a murder story that's awful. I

1201
00:59:06,200 --> 00:59:10,080
Speaker 2: got Actually, the first whiff of this I ever heard

1202
00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:13,560
Speaker 2: is from the show Real Detective that we've talked about

1203
00:59:13,640 --> 00:59:14,160
Speaker 2: many times.

1204
00:59:14,320 --> 00:59:20,400
Speaker 1: So good on Netflix? It is uh, it's is it

1205
00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:20,960
Speaker 1: on Netflix?

1206
00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:23,360
Speaker 2: I'm not sure it's on regular TV now, Like I

1207
00:59:23,440 --> 00:59:25,919
Speaker 2: have just t vode and so I have like ten

1208
00:59:25,960 --> 00:59:27,280
Speaker 2: episodes from regular TV.

1209
00:59:27,600 --> 00:59:30,160
Speaker 1: Okay, then what I only season one is on Sorry

1210
00:59:30,280 --> 00:59:34,560
Speaker 1: what you like to call regular TV? I mean, at

1211
00:59:34,560 --> 00:59:37,000
Speaker 1: this this standage, it's just regular TV.

1212
00:59:37,480 --> 00:59:41,560
Speaker 2: But you can also it's on on demand on direct TV.

1213
00:59:41,760 --> 00:59:45,040
Speaker 2: Oh that's how I watch the one I watched today.

1214
00:59:45,160 --> 00:59:48,680
Speaker 3: I hate on demand? Why because you can't put it in.

1215
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:51,200
Speaker 3: You can't list it. You have to specifically look for

1216
00:59:51,240 --> 00:59:52,120
Speaker 3: something and then watch it.

1217
00:59:52,240 --> 00:59:54,040
Speaker 1: Yes, you have to know exactly what you're looking for,

1218
00:59:54,080 --> 00:59:54,760
Speaker 1: and I can hate that.

1219
00:59:54,800 --> 00:59:57,000
Speaker 3: I want there's a new show coming up called like

1220
00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:00,720
Speaker 3: New York detect Or, like the FBI in New York

1221
01:00:00,800 --> 01:00:03,400
Speaker 3: or some shit. Yeah, and I went immediately to record it,

1222
01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:06,280
Speaker 3: and you can't. It's just I'm gonna forget it immediately.

1223
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:08,960
Speaker 1: Oh, well, make Stephen remind you listen.

1224
01:00:09,000 --> 01:00:12,200
Speaker 3: Stephen, can you change Direct TV? Please listen? Give Direct

1225
01:00:12,200 --> 01:00:12,760
Speaker 3: TV a call.

1226
01:00:12,880 --> 01:00:15,640
Speaker 2: You need to start writing some letters. Yeah, okay, so

1227
01:00:15,800 --> 01:00:18,960
Speaker 2: Real Detective. Well try to watch it any way you

1228
01:00:19,040 --> 01:00:23,040
Speaker 2: can find out. But the reason I loved this episode

1229
01:00:23,080 --> 01:00:25,600
Speaker 2: was not only because it was a southern California serial

1230
01:00:25,680 --> 01:00:28,520
Speaker 2: killer that I'd never heard of, which is pretty fascinating,

1231
01:00:28,800 --> 01:00:32,800
Speaker 2: But on this episode The Real Detective if you haven't watched,

1232
01:00:32,800 --> 01:00:37,160
Speaker 2: it basically follows the one detective who solves this crime,

1233
01:00:37,680 --> 01:00:41,200
Speaker 2: and that detective is there talking about themselves in the

1234
01:00:41,360 --> 01:00:43,320
Speaker 2: twenty years ago or whenever the thing happens.

1235
01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:46,200
Speaker 3: It's like doing the storytelling. So it's not like a

1236
01:00:46,320 --> 01:00:47,520
Speaker 3: dramatic reenactment.

1237
01:00:47,800 --> 01:00:50,480
Speaker 2: No, there it's first hand experience of what it was

1238
01:00:50,560 --> 01:00:54,880
Speaker 2: like for this person to get catch this case, go

1239
01:00:54,960 --> 01:00:59,080
Speaker 2: through be at all these crime scenes, and eventually thankfully

1240
01:00:59,160 --> 01:00:59,880
Speaker 2: solve the crime.

1241
01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:03,800
Speaker 1: And there are reenactments, but they're good exactly because they

1242
01:01:03,840 --> 01:01:07,280
Speaker 1: actually hire great actors, because it's not just they don't

1243
01:01:07,360 --> 01:01:09,959
Speaker 1: just do like reenactments that are silent. There are whole

1244
01:01:09,960 --> 01:01:12,880
Speaker 1: scenes that they do like seamalang h. Yeah, it's a

1245
01:01:12,920 --> 01:01:13,560
Speaker 1: really great show.

1246
01:01:14,680 --> 01:01:19,360
Speaker 2: Okay, So this one is the Riverside County. The name

1247
01:01:19,360 --> 01:01:23,160
Speaker 2: of him was the Riverside County Prostitute Killer originally, but

1248
01:01:23,720 --> 01:01:27,800
Speaker 2: I called him the Riverside County serial Killer, and the

1249
01:01:27,840 --> 01:01:35,000
Speaker 2: detectives named Bob Creed. And he he is, especially as

1250
01:01:35,120 --> 01:01:39,280
Speaker 2: a detective. He is so empathetic and he is so

1251
01:01:40,160 --> 01:01:43,080
Speaker 2: lovely and kind, and the way he talks about all

1252
01:01:43,120 --> 01:01:46,280
Speaker 2: of these victims. It's the episode starts with him just

1253
01:01:46,400 --> 01:01:49,320
Speaker 2: kind of listing all the victims names, like he knows

1254
01:01:49,320 --> 01:01:52,680
Speaker 2: all of them now. So it's that kind of thing

1255
01:01:52,680 --> 01:01:54,640
Speaker 2: where you're just watching a person who this was his

1256
01:01:54,680 --> 01:01:57,919
Speaker 2: life and this he took all of all of these

1257
01:01:57,960 --> 01:02:00,680
Speaker 2: deaths to heart, and and the fact that it was

1258
01:02:00,760 --> 01:02:05,400
Speaker 2: taking place in his hometown and his home territory and

1259
01:02:05,440 --> 01:02:06,760
Speaker 2: it's this incredible story.

1260
01:02:06,880 --> 01:02:09,760
Speaker 3: So well, that's refreshing because when you said the name

1261
01:02:09,800 --> 01:02:12,280
Speaker 3: of what it was before the prostitute killer, I immediately

1262
01:02:12,360 --> 01:02:15,160
Speaker 3: was like, oh, well, then they're not important. So him

1263
01:02:15,240 --> 01:02:17,920
Speaker 3: naming them immediately makes me think that they're important.

1264
01:02:18,120 --> 01:02:21,400
Speaker 1: It's not only that, but the way they present these

1265
01:02:21,480 --> 01:02:25,840
Speaker 1: murders in on the show Real Detectives, they really.

1266
01:02:25,600 --> 01:02:30,120
Speaker 2: Play down, if not don't mention the prostitute aspect at all.

1267
01:02:30,520 --> 01:02:32,760
Speaker 2: So they really are just talking about they found this

1268
01:02:32,880 --> 01:02:35,959
Speaker 2: victim here, they found this victim here, and when and

1269
01:02:36,640 --> 01:02:40,920
Speaker 2: when Bob Creed talks about them, he talks about like

1270
01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:44,080
Speaker 2: he starts out by saying, these were women with families

1271
01:02:44,080 --> 01:02:46,920
Speaker 2: who loved them, and he talks about the family. They

1272
01:02:46,920 --> 01:02:50,000
Speaker 2: were good families and they loved their daughters. So it's

1273
01:02:50,080 --> 01:02:53,200
Speaker 2: because all of the in the murder Pedia articles that

1274
01:02:53,240 --> 01:02:57,680
Speaker 2: I was reading, it's all just prostitute, drug user because

1275
01:02:57,680 --> 01:02:58,240
Speaker 2: you never know.

1276
01:02:58,200 --> 01:03:00,720
Speaker 3: The circumstance of their life, you don't. And the killing

1277
01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:02,400
Speaker 3: fields do that really well when they talk to their

1278
01:03:02,440 --> 01:03:05,320
Speaker 3: families and sisters. But you know, when I go missing,

1279
01:03:05,400 --> 01:03:07,280
Speaker 3: is it going to be ex drug addicts?

1280
01:03:07,440 --> 01:03:08,200
Speaker 1: You know? Yeah?

1281
01:03:08,360 --> 01:03:10,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, because I I it was a drug addict at

1282
01:03:10,920 --> 01:03:12,880
Speaker 3: one point, yet I haven't been in twenty you know.

1283
01:03:12,920 --> 01:03:15,840
Speaker 3: It's like like we did I did a murder when

1284
01:03:15,840 --> 01:03:17,400
Speaker 3: we were doing the live shows, and one of them

1285
01:03:17,440 --> 01:03:19,720
Speaker 3: called her a prostitute. But in other places I saw

1286
01:03:19,840 --> 01:03:23,080
Speaker 3: as a messuse. And it's like did she cross some

1287
01:03:23,160 --> 01:03:26,280
Speaker 3: lines at her job and they called her a prostitute.

1288
01:03:26,320 --> 01:03:28,840
Speaker 3: It's just there's so many there's so many nuances around it.

1289
01:03:28,920 --> 01:03:32,320
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and when you boil, like in journalism and

1290
01:03:32,360 --> 01:03:35,040
Speaker 2: this kind of journalism, when you boil people's lives down

1291
01:03:35,080 --> 01:03:37,800
Speaker 2: to the to their criminal records or the like, the

1292
01:03:37,840 --> 01:03:40,640
Speaker 2: basic facts of their lives, what are you choosing to

1293
01:03:40,720 --> 01:03:43,640
Speaker 2: leave in and what and what are you choosing to

1294
01:03:43,640 --> 01:03:46,360
Speaker 2: bring out? Because there are lots of people who have

1295
01:03:46,400 --> 01:03:48,440
Speaker 2: been addicted to drugs, whether or not they go to

1296
01:03:48,520 --> 01:03:51,040
Speaker 2: jail for it, there's lots of people on drugs right now,

1297
01:03:51,240 --> 01:03:53,000
Speaker 2: that if you died right now and they took the

1298
01:03:53,040 --> 01:03:56,520
Speaker 2: toxicology report, not you, but like anybody in the street,

1299
01:03:56,560 --> 01:04:01,400
Speaker 2: any man in the streets, that if they die and

1300
01:04:01,440 --> 01:04:03,920
Speaker 2: they took the toxicology report, and they'd be like, well,

1301
01:04:04,120 --> 01:04:07,400
Speaker 2: you're filled with well butrin and adderall and did this

1302
01:04:07,440 --> 01:04:10,960
Speaker 2: and that, cholca max and pot and you and you

1303
01:04:11,360 --> 01:04:13,840
Speaker 2: just had four drinks. So are you a drug user?

1304
01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:16,720
Speaker 2: And so should your murder matter less? Because of that?

1305
01:04:17,160 --> 01:04:19,480
Speaker 2: And that's kind of like I was really blown away

1306
01:04:19,480 --> 01:04:23,320
Speaker 2: because when I was when I was reading these old articles,

1307
01:04:23,680 --> 01:04:26,520
Speaker 2: it was one story, but the way Real Detective presents

1308
01:04:26,560 --> 01:04:30,080
Speaker 2: this is so different and it's so modern. And then

1309
01:04:30,240 --> 01:04:33,280
Speaker 2: this detective on top of it, you love him and

1310
01:04:33,320 --> 01:04:35,360
Speaker 2: you love the work that he's doing because it's just

1311
01:04:35,600 --> 01:04:39,120
Speaker 2: very personal. So all right, so this is like no,

1312
01:04:39,120 --> 01:04:42,760
Speaker 2: this guys, the I need you to and the presentation

1313
01:04:43,200 --> 01:04:45,400
Speaker 2: or this like what I've written up is a combination

1314
01:04:45,640 --> 01:04:49,080
Speaker 2: of me writing down things from this episode of Real Detective.

1315
01:04:49,120 --> 01:04:51,680
Speaker 2: But it's also there's an article I found in murder

1316
01:04:51,720 --> 01:04:54,280
Speaker 2: Pedia that gave me a really good timeline and talked

1317
01:04:54,280 --> 01:04:56,840
Speaker 2: a lot about these victims. And it was written by

1318
01:04:56,840 --> 01:05:00,919
Speaker 2: a guy named David Lore. His article was called the

1319
01:05:01,040 --> 01:05:04,040
Speaker 2: Riverside Prostitute Killer. I didn't get a year on it,

1320
01:05:04,080 --> 01:05:07,080
Speaker 2: but it does seem old because it's definitely from like

1321
01:05:07,120 --> 01:05:12,400
Speaker 2: the early nineties. So anyway, October thirtieth, nineteen eighty six,

1322
01:05:12,480 --> 01:05:14,240
Speaker 2: So there's an area I don't know how much you

1323
01:05:14,280 --> 01:05:17,840
Speaker 2: know Riverside, like the Riverside city or the county.

1324
01:05:17,520 --> 01:05:19,160
Speaker 1: Vague even though I'm from here.

1325
01:05:19,320 --> 01:05:22,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's weird because it's it's about an hour

1326
01:05:22,520 --> 01:05:25,400
Speaker 2: and a half directly south of where we are right now,

1327
01:05:25,840 --> 01:05:27,320
Speaker 2: and it's never the way.

1328
01:05:27,400 --> 01:05:28,160
Speaker 1: We never go there.

1329
01:05:28,200 --> 01:05:32,240
Speaker 2: It's halfway between here and San Diego. It's inland Lake

1330
01:05:32,280 --> 01:05:36,080
Speaker 2: Elson or is the big like this guy, Yeah, that

1331
01:05:36,200 --> 01:05:38,560
Speaker 2: lake that's nearby. It is like the kind of the

1332
01:05:38,960 --> 01:05:43,680
Speaker 2: tourist nice area, and that's where this guy lived. But

1333
01:05:44,360 --> 01:05:46,800
Speaker 2: almost of the murder, the crime scenes are in and

1334
01:05:46,840 --> 01:05:53,160
Speaker 2: around Riverside, the city itself. So there's apparently an industrial

1335
01:05:53,200 --> 01:05:57,040
Speaker 2: area outside of Riverside called rubb Ado and it's like

1336
01:05:57,200 --> 01:06:02,080
Speaker 2: apparently smoggy and gross and it's all factor. So on

1337
01:06:02,120 --> 01:06:06,480
Speaker 2: October thirtieth, nineteen eighty six, there's a man who's collecting

1338
01:06:06,840 --> 01:06:10,120
Speaker 2: cans that around that area, and he comes upon the

1339
01:06:10,120 --> 01:06:12,720
Speaker 2: body of a woman who's stuffed into a drainage ditch.

1340
01:06:13,280 --> 01:06:15,760
Speaker 2: She's covered in blood, her clos are ripped to shreds,

1341
01:06:16,320 --> 01:06:20,840
Speaker 2: and her genitals have been mutilated, so he runs. This

1342
01:06:20,920 --> 01:06:25,600
Speaker 2: man who discovers this horrible crime scene runs to the

1343
01:06:25,600 --> 01:06:29,160
Speaker 2: closest factory to get help, and the police identify her

1344
01:06:29,160 --> 01:06:33,240
Speaker 2: as twenty three year old Michelle Gutierres and she's from

1345
01:06:33,240 --> 01:06:38,280
Speaker 2: Corpus Christi, Texas, and her autopsy reveals that she suffered

1346
01:06:38,320 --> 01:06:42,600
Speaker 2: severe trauma to anal and vaginal areas. Multiple stab wounds

1347
01:06:42,680 --> 01:06:46,080
Speaker 2: were discovered on her face, chest, and buttocks, and she

1348
01:06:46,120 --> 01:06:50,400
Speaker 2: has ligature marks on her neck, suggesting that she'd been

1349
01:06:50,400 --> 01:06:53,520
Speaker 2: strangled while she was being mutilated.

1350
01:06:54,080 --> 01:06:57,040
Speaker 1: So bad news right away.

1351
01:06:57,240 --> 01:07:01,000
Speaker 2: So two weeks later, on December eleventh, the body of

1352
01:07:01,040 --> 01:07:04,360
Speaker 2: twenty four year old Charlotte Jean Palmer is discovered near

1353
01:07:04,520 --> 01:07:08,240
Speaker 2: Highway seventy four in Romoland, which is twenty five miles

1354
01:07:08,240 --> 01:07:13,040
Speaker 2: away from the Gutierra's murderer scene, and her body was

1355
01:07:13,080 --> 01:07:17,480
Speaker 2: so badly decomposed that they couldn't figure out the cause

1356
01:07:17,480 --> 01:07:22,760
Speaker 2: of death, so they weren't even necessarily related. In January

1357
01:07:23,680 --> 01:07:26,720
Speaker 2: of nineteen eighty seven. So about a month later, the

1358
01:07:26,840 --> 01:07:29,400
Speaker 2: naked and mutilated body of thirty seven year old Linda

1359
01:07:29,400 --> 01:07:33,240
Speaker 2: an Artega is found along a dirt road in Lake Elsinore.

1360
01:07:34,240 --> 01:07:37,360
Speaker 2: She had been dead for at least three days. They

1361
01:07:37,400 --> 01:07:40,360
Speaker 2: found alcohol and cocaine in her bloodstream.

1362
01:07:40,560 --> 01:07:44,320
Speaker 1: Investigators later discover that she worked part.

1363
01:07:44,120 --> 01:07:46,840
Speaker 2: Time in a fast food restaurant, but she also had

1364
01:07:46,840 --> 01:07:53,000
Speaker 2: a rapshoot for drugs and sex working. Now the investigators

1365
01:07:53,000 --> 01:07:55,640
Speaker 2: are starting to see that they have three similar homicides

1366
01:07:56,160 --> 01:07:59,959
Speaker 2: where the young women are being brutally stabbed to death

1367
01:08:00,120 --> 01:08:04,560
Speaker 2: and strangled to death. So then four months later, on

1368
01:08:04,600 --> 01:08:09,880
Speaker 2: May second, nineteen eighty seven, Martha bess Young, twenty seven

1369
01:08:09,960 --> 01:08:13,000
Speaker 2: year old Martha Bess Young is discovered in a ravine

1370
01:08:13,360 --> 01:08:18,280
Speaker 2: not far from the Ortega murder site. She is fully

1371
01:08:18,360 --> 01:08:21,920
Speaker 2: naked in a spreadeagal position. She also had a wrap

1372
01:08:22,080 --> 01:08:24,840
Speaker 2: sheet for sex work and high levels of drugs were

1373
01:08:24,840 --> 01:08:30,360
Speaker 2: found in her body, and the corner determines that she's

1374
01:08:30,400 --> 01:08:33,240
Speaker 2: been dead for about three weeks and she had died

1375
01:08:33,240 --> 01:08:36,720
Speaker 2: from a lethal dose of amphetamines while she was being strangled.

1376
01:08:37,520 --> 01:08:41,479
Speaker 3: So like he injected her with amphetamines while he was

1377
01:08:41,520 --> 01:08:43,320
Speaker 3: strangled or like at some point.

1378
01:08:43,120 --> 01:08:45,200
Speaker 2: I don't know, just that they're both exists, Like she

1379
01:08:45,280 --> 01:08:48,280
Speaker 2: has a lethal dose inner system, but she the asphyxiation

1380
01:08:48,439 --> 01:08:52,800
Speaker 2: is what she actually died from. But she also those

1381
01:08:52,840 --> 01:08:54,519
Speaker 2: things were happening like at the same time.

1382
01:08:54,640 --> 01:08:55,040
Speaker 1: Got it.

1383
01:08:56,280 --> 01:09:00,240
Speaker 3: I was picturing it, like like at the exact same time. Yes,

1384
01:09:00,600 --> 01:09:03,360
Speaker 3: like he shot her up while he's with one hand

1385
01:09:03,400 --> 01:09:06,040
Speaker 3: on her neck and yeah, which probably didn't happen.

1386
01:09:06,560 --> 01:09:12,880
Speaker 2: No, but the first woman who was found, Michelle Gutierrez,

1387
01:09:13,360 --> 01:09:17,760
Speaker 2: also had stab wounds, but she lethal stab wounds, but

1388
01:09:17,800 --> 01:09:20,280
Speaker 2: she died from being strangled. So they do think that

1389
01:09:20,400 --> 01:09:23,240
Speaker 2: he kills them and attacks them at the same time, right,

1390
01:09:23,560 --> 01:09:25,400
Speaker 2: I mean, it's like all one frenzy.

1391
01:09:25,800 --> 01:09:27,519
Speaker 1: It seems like nice, okay.

1392
01:09:27,600 --> 01:09:34,200
Speaker 2: So so then no murders for almost two years, and

1393
01:09:34,240 --> 01:09:37,519
Speaker 2: then January twenty seventh, nineteen eighty nine, the body of

1394
01:09:37,560 --> 01:09:41,280
Speaker 2: thirty seven year old Linda may Ruez, who was a

1395
01:09:41,280 --> 01:09:44,080
Speaker 2: sex known as a sex worker, was discovered on the

1396
01:09:44,080 --> 01:09:47,519
Speaker 2: beach of Lake Elsinore and her head was buried in

1397
01:09:47,560 --> 01:09:53,479
Speaker 2: the sand, and the autopsy reveals she has a high

1398
01:09:53,720 --> 01:09:57,519
Speaker 2: blood alcohol level and there were sand found in her

1399
01:09:57,560 --> 01:10:02,360
Speaker 2: throat and the cause of death is a fixed Then

1400
01:10:03,120 --> 01:10:06,559
Speaker 2: About six months later, same year, the body of twenty

1401
01:10:06,560 --> 01:10:12,599
Speaker 2: eight year old Kimberly Little is discovered in Cottonwood Canyon. Also,

1402
01:10:12,720 --> 01:10:15,200
Speaker 2: she's also known as a sex worker and a drug user,

1403
01:10:15,760 --> 01:10:21,439
Speaker 2: and her autopsy reveals the presence of alcohol and drugs.

1404
01:10:22,080 --> 01:10:27,840
Speaker 2: The official cause of death is listed as asphyxiation, and

1405
01:10:27,960 --> 01:10:32,599
Speaker 2: they find on her they finally find fibers and pubic

1406
01:10:32,600 --> 01:10:35,519
Speaker 2: hares that are not hers, So they finally find some

1407
01:10:36,560 --> 01:10:39,400
Speaker 2: evidence that they can use that they don't know what

1408
01:10:39,479 --> 01:10:41,320
Speaker 2: to compare it against, but they're saving it.

1409
01:10:41,320 --> 01:10:44,479
Speaker 3: It's crazy that later that many victims they didn't have

1410
01:10:44,920 --> 01:10:47,040
Speaker 3: a touch of that even right.

1411
01:10:48,240 --> 01:10:50,519
Speaker 1: No, I mean not as not so far that's listed

1412
01:10:50,560 --> 01:10:53,599
Speaker 1: on this article, or that they knew how to lift

1413
01:10:53,680 --> 01:10:55,960
Speaker 1: at that time. Yeah, maybe because it was pretty early

1414
01:10:56,120 --> 01:10:58,360
Speaker 1: what year is it, this is in the late eighties,

1415
01:10:58,400 --> 01:11:01,080
Speaker 1: so yeah, they started in nineteen eighty seven, so they

1416
01:11:01,120 --> 01:11:04,040
Speaker 1: probably didn't know what could be com like what could

1417
01:11:04,080 --> 01:11:06,200
Speaker 1: be used as DNA, So even if there's some kind

1418
01:11:06,240 --> 01:11:08,720
Speaker 1: of saliva or the right, they wouldn't know.

1419
01:11:08,920 --> 01:11:14,760
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe yeah. So but also they're starting to I

1420
01:11:14,800 --> 01:11:18,519
Speaker 2: think compare they're starting to keep track of these, so

1421
01:11:18,560 --> 01:11:22,000
Speaker 2: it's like they know that there they can see what's

1422
01:11:22,040 --> 01:11:24,519
Speaker 2: standing out on these victims as they go, and so

1423
01:11:24,560 --> 01:11:27,400
Speaker 2: they're like, okay, we have a pubicare that's not hers,

1424
01:11:28,120 --> 01:11:31,720
Speaker 2: and like they're they're learning what to look for and

1425
01:11:31,760 --> 01:11:34,839
Speaker 2: what to keep as they go. Okay, So on November eleventh,

1426
01:11:35,120 --> 01:11:41,320
Speaker 2: same year, a local resident discovers the body bludgeoned and

1427
01:11:41,439 --> 01:11:44,719
Speaker 2: mulated body of thirty six year old Judy Lynn Angel

1428
01:11:45,040 --> 01:11:48,360
Speaker 2: near to Mescal Canyon Road, and this is just northwest

1429
01:11:48,360 --> 01:11:52,519
Speaker 2: of Lake Elsinore. And she also had a rap sheet

1430
01:11:52,560 --> 01:12:00,680
Speaker 2: for sex working and drugs. But she they discovered defensive

1431
01:12:00,680 --> 01:12:04,680
Speaker 2: wounds in her hands when she's when her autopsy is

1432
01:12:04,720 --> 01:12:09,120
Speaker 2: being given. She also had several blows to the face

1433
01:12:09,280 --> 01:12:14,920
Speaker 2: and ultimately she died of having her cranium crushed. So

1434
01:12:14,960 --> 01:12:17,280
Speaker 2: then the next month they find the body of twenty

1435
01:12:17,320 --> 01:12:22,680
Speaker 2: three year old Christina Leal in Quail Valley. Now she

1436
01:12:22,920 --> 01:12:28,200
Speaker 2: fully appears, fully closed and not having suffered any serious

1437
01:12:28,320 --> 01:12:33,840
Speaker 2: abuse or mutilation. She was had a record for sex

1438
01:12:33,880 --> 01:12:39,040
Speaker 2: work and drugs. And at that crime scene, investigators found

1439
01:12:39,360 --> 01:12:42,400
Speaker 2: tire tracks for the first time, so they made impressions

1440
01:12:42,439 --> 01:12:43,920
Speaker 2: of those tire tracks, which I.

1441
01:12:43,880 --> 01:12:46,760
Speaker 3: Found so fascinating that they think to do that. But

1442
01:12:47,200 --> 01:12:49,880
Speaker 3: to me, that's like one in a million chants of

1443
01:12:49,920 --> 01:12:52,880
Speaker 3: finding that person. But yeah, I guess it can be

1444
01:12:52,960 --> 01:12:54,839
Speaker 3: used once they find somebody I think is a suspect.

1445
01:12:54,840 --> 01:12:57,120
Speaker 1: But kind of car did they drive at the time exactly?

1446
01:12:57,240 --> 01:13:00,839
Speaker 2: And when it's serial killing, they know they start finding

1447
01:13:01,680 --> 01:13:04,479
Speaker 2: taking imprints of tire tracks to compare to the other

1448
01:13:04,520 --> 01:13:07,599
Speaker 2: places because they know that eventually there's gonna be some

1449
01:13:07,720 --> 01:13:12,040
Speaker 2: that becomes a consistent impression that they're like, Okay, this

1450
01:13:12,120 --> 01:13:14,559
Speaker 2: is the this is the this is the tire, maybe

1451
01:13:14,600 --> 01:13:15,280
Speaker 2: this is the car.

1452
01:13:15,400 --> 01:13:15,879
Speaker 1: Interesting.

1453
01:13:16,160 --> 01:13:21,200
Speaker 2: So so then when when she gets her autopsy, the

1454
01:13:21,240 --> 01:13:23,479
Speaker 2: corner finds that she had one stab wound to the

1455
01:13:23,520 --> 01:13:26,679
Speaker 2: heart and they didn't notice it at the beginning because

1456
01:13:27,160 --> 01:13:30,120
Speaker 2: she she had been stripped and then re dressed by

1457
01:13:30,160 --> 01:13:32,559
Speaker 2: the killer. Oh so there was no through the shirt,

1458
01:13:32,600 --> 01:13:34,639
Speaker 2: There wasn't anything. It wasn't a stab through the shirt.

1459
01:13:34,880 --> 01:13:37,400
Speaker 2: It was underneath I think, so the cops didn't see

1460
01:13:37,439 --> 01:13:39,960
Speaker 2: it like weird right away, Yeah.

1461
01:13:39,960 --> 01:13:40,599
Speaker 1: Super weird.

1462
01:13:41,439 --> 01:13:44,280
Speaker 2: Here's a weirder thing and maybe the weirdest thing of

1463
01:13:44,360 --> 01:13:50,160
Speaker 2: this of this whole case. When they inspected the victims

1464
01:13:50,240 --> 01:13:53,920
Speaker 2: genital area, they found the killer had put a light

1465
01:13:53,960 --> 01:13:55,439
Speaker 2: bulb up.

1466
01:13:55,360 --> 01:14:01,639
Speaker 1: Into the woman's and the woman womb. So he's shot

1467
01:14:02,120 --> 01:14:06,479
Speaker 1: the way up and it was unbroken, and it was

1468
01:14:06,560 --> 01:14:12,240
Speaker 1: also a very uh, it was a very kind of different.

1469
01:14:12,760 --> 01:14:17,360
Speaker 1: It was an elongated light bulb.

1470
01:14:17,439 --> 01:14:19,840
Speaker 2: It was different. It wasn't just a standard It was

1471
01:14:19,920 --> 01:14:22,200
Speaker 2: kind of old timey looking. It wasn't it wasn't a

1472
01:14:22,240 --> 01:14:23,120
Speaker 2: common one.

1473
01:14:23,040 --> 01:14:25,200
Speaker 1: For somewhere in something exactly.

1474
01:14:26,000 --> 01:14:29,920
Speaker 2: So they now know that he's escalating, and he's becoming more.

1475
01:14:31,200 --> 01:14:33,879
Speaker 1: You know, deviant. He's starting to do weird shit.

1476
01:14:33,960 --> 01:14:36,120
Speaker 3: That seems like such a big clue that they're almost

1477
01:14:36,240 --> 01:14:38,679
Speaker 3: lucky to have do. Was she dead or Alie would

1478
01:14:38,800 --> 01:14:40,679
Speaker 3: not happen? I feel like she must have been dead.

1479
01:14:41,080 --> 01:14:43,439
Speaker 2: I think she must have been dead because it took

1480
01:14:43,560 --> 01:14:45,759
Speaker 2: they said, it must have taken a really long time

1481
01:14:46,320 --> 01:14:49,240
Speaker 2: for him to be able to put it up there unbroken.

1482
01:14:49,400 --> 01:14:52,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, because she would have been fighting, yes, right, Oh

1483
01:14:52,320 --> 01:14:53,080
Speaker 1: so fuck sake.

1484
01:14:53,320 --> 01:14:56,080
Speaker 2: So he is then now the escalation is part of

1485
01:14:57,160 --> 01:14:59,840
Speaker 2: Part of that them knowing he's escalating is because he's

1486
01:15:00,120 --> 01:15:06,200
Speaker 2: leaving things behind intentionally and he's degrading them more than

1487
01:15:06,320 --> 01:15:10,280
Speaker 2: average because because he was, you know, the degradation of

1488
01:15:10,320 --> 01:15:14,679
Speaker 2: being left you know, often spread eagle, often half naked

1489
01:15:15,280 --> 01:15:18,320
Speaker 2: in ditches in drain it, you know, in like on

1490
01:15:18,439 --> 01:15:21,040
Speaker 2: these places where he's just saying these people are garbage

1491
01:15:21,200 --> 01:15:23,960
Speaker 2: with how he's leaving them, but now he's adding to

1492
01:15:24,040 --> 01:15:28,400
Speaker 2: it even more in a very upsetting way.

1493
01:15:28,479 --> 01:15:28,799
Speaker 1: Okay.

1494
01:15:28,880 --> 01:15:32,160
Speaker 2: So then on the morning of January eighteenth, nineteen ninety,

1495
01:15:33,280 --> 01:15:35,519
Speaker 2: so it's actually only a month later, but it's the

1496
01:15:35,560 --> 01:15:39,200
Speaker 2: next year, investigators get called to a scene east of

1497
01:15:39,240 --> 01:15:43,240
Speaker 2: the I fifteen in Lake Elsinore. A jogger had found

1498
01:15:43,400 --> 01:15:47,800
Speaker 2: the half nude body of a woman who is identified

1499
01:15:47,840 --> 01:15:50,760
Speaker 2: as twenty four year old sex worker Darla Jane Ferguson.

1500
01:15:53,160 --> 01:15:57,080
Speaker 2: She had been strangled so severely that she nearly bid off.

1501
01:15:56,880 --> 01:16:01,360
Speaker 1: Her own tongue. I didn't know, that's thing minded neither.

1502
01:16:02,600 --> 01:16:06,280
Speaker 2: Investigators find tire tracks at this crime scene make impressions

1503
01:16:06,320 --> 01:16:11,439
Speaker 2: at this crime scene. A month later, February eighth, nineteen ninety,

1504
01:16:11,520 --> 01:16:14,920
Speaker 2: farmers working at an orchard in High Groove find the

1505
01:16:15,200 --> 01:16:19,240
Speaker 2: nude body of thirty five year old Carolynn Miller, also

1506
01:16:19,560 --> 01:16:22,280
Speaker 2: known as a sex worker and drug addict.

1507
01:16:22,479 --> 01:16:26,360
Speaker 1: She had gone missing a month earlier. She had multiple

1508
01:16:26,360 --> 01:16:31,519
Speaker 1: stab wounds to the chest, and she also had a

1509
01:16:31,560 --> 01:16:36,920
Speaker 1: wound near her right nipple. They found pubic hares on

1510
01:16:36,960 --> 01:16:44,560
Speaker 1: this victim that they kept, and this murder is where.

1511
01:16:44,360 --> 01:16:48,880
Speaker 2: That episode of Real Detective starts because they basically come

1512
01:16:48,880 --> 01:16:52,680
Speaker 2: in and they talk about how these murders had been

1513
01:16:53,080 --> 01:16:58,040
Speaker 2: going on, but they just it was the kind of

1514
01:16:58,080 --> 01:16:59,479
Speaker 2: thing of like they would have a murder and it

1515
01:16:59,520 --> 01:17:01,840
Speaker 2: would be a sex worker and they would be like,

1516
01:17:01,920 --> 01:17:04,519
Speaker 2: oh no, and they were like suspecting that they had

1517
01:17:04,840 --> 01:17:07,480
Speaker 2: a serial killer, but it wasn't until.

1518
01:17:08,880 --> 01:17:09,000
Speaker 1: This.

1519
01:17:09,160 --> 01:17:15,080
Speaker 2: I think this may have been Bob Creed's like one

1520
01:17:15,120 --> 01:17:16,080
Speaker 2: of his early.

1521
01:17:16,720 --> 01:17:18,400
Speaker 1: Like when he got put on the case was at

1522
01:17:18,439 --> 01:17:21,720
Speaker 1: that point, Uh no, because I think he was on

1523
01:17:21,720 --> 01:17:24,840
Speaker 1: this task force early, but I guess that the point

1524
01:17:24,840 --> 01:17:28,559
Speaker 1: of interest was when he got there and he was

1525
01:17:28,600 --> 01:17:33,080
Speaker 1: looking at the crime scene, he realized that his grandfather

1526
01:17:33,200 --> 01:17:36,880
Speaker 1: used to own that orchard. Whoa, And so he's starting

1527
01:17:36,920 --> 01:17:39,439
Speaker 1: to go, is this guy fucking with us? Yeah? Like

1528
01:17:39,600 --> 01:17:40,800
Speaker 1: is this guy doing this on purpose?

1529
01:17:40,840 --> 01:17:43,680
Speaker 2: Because they also there was a half eaten grapefruit that

1530
01:17:43,800 --> 01:17:46,599
Speaker 2: had been peeled, half eaten and thrown on the victim.

1531
01:17:47,000 --> 01:17:47,639
Speaker 1: The fuck.

1532
01:17:47,960 --> 01:17:51,880
Speaker 2: So there was like a lot of kind of messaging

1533
01:17:51,960 --> 01:17:55,080
Speaker 2: in that yeah or that kind of like he was

1534
01:17:55,120 --> 01:17:57,479
Speaker 2: really freaked out about so obviously I was taking his time.

1535
01:17:58,040 --> 01:18:04,160
Speaker 1: He was purposely Yeah, what's the word antagonizing the police?

1536
01:18:04,439 --> 01:18:08,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what that's That's where he started to go, like,

1537
01:18:09,160 --> 01:18:11,760
Speaker 2: could this guy know? Could this guy have known that

1538
01:18:11,800 --> 01:18:13,840
Speaker 2: this was my grandfather's Like he's like, we used to

1539
01:18:13,840 --> 01:18:18,800
Speaker 2: play here when I was a little kid. Yeah, so, uh,

1540
01:18:19,120 --> 01:18:21,960
Speaker 2: I wish I knew exactly when they put this task

1541
01:18:22,000 --> 01:18:25,960
Speaker 2: force together. I don't have it, but it basically it was,

1542
01:18:26,080 --> 01:18:29,519
Speaker 2: like I would say, probably after the fifth or sixth body,

1543
01:18:29,560 --> 01:18:32,439
Speaker 2: they actually put a dedicated task force together to be

1544
01:18:32,560 --> 01:18:34,920
Speaker 2: like what is going on? But they but they never

1545
01:18:34,960 --> 01:18:38,879
Speaker 2: find fingerprints at any scene. They know that the bodies

1546
01:18:38,880 --> 01:18:41,120
Speaker 2: have been taken to those scenes and dumped there that

1547
01:18:41,160 --> 01:18:45,840
Speaker 2: they're so they can rarely find any evidence. And they've

1548
01:18:45,840 --> 01:18:49,400
Speaker 2: only found tire prints twice up up until this point.

1549
01:18:49,439 --> 01:18:53,960
Speaker 1: And no salmon, uh not that, not that I've ever heard.

1550
01:18:54,040 --> 01:18:58,760
Speaker 1: I feel like they would say, so yes, so yeah,

1551
01:18:58,760 --> 01:19:01,639
Speaker 1: so the guy's very careful. Okay.

1552
01:19:01,720 --> 01:19:08,639
Speaker 2: So under December twenty first, nineteen ninety, a janitor emptying

1553
01:19:09,520 --> 01:19:15,400
Speaker 2: the garbage a factory complex on Iowa Avenue discovers the

1554
01:19:15,479 --> 01:19:19,760
Speaker 2: nude and carefully opposed body of a young woman who

1555
01:19:19,840 --> 01:19:22,680
Speaker 2: turns out to be twenty seven year old Susan Sternfeld,

1556
01:19:23,760 --> 01:19:28,320
Speaker 2: also local sex worker drug addict. There's no mutilation on

1557
01:19:28,360 --> 01:19:32,759
Speaker 2: her remains. She died of strangulation. The County Corner eventually

1558
01:19:32,760 --> 01:19:39,080
Speaker 2: finds out. Next, forty two year old Kathleen Leslie Milne

1559
01:19:41,120 --> 01:19:47,280
Speaker 2: is discovered on January nineteenth. A motorists is driving by

1560
01:19:47,439 --> 01:19:52,880
Speaker 2: and sees her body alongside a road northwest of Lake Elsinore.

1561
01:19:53,840 --> 01:19:57,479
Speaker 2: She had been rendered unconscious by several blows to the

1562
01:19:57,479 --> 01:20:00,360
Speaker 2: head and strangled, but she had been dead last twenty

1563
01:20:00,360 --> 01:20:00,760
Speaker 2: four hours.

1564
01:20:00,760 --> 01:20:03,120
Speaker 3: Oh my god, man, I would hate to be the

1565
01:20:03,160 --> 01:20:04,320
Speaker 3: person who found her.

1566
01:20:04,560 --> 01:20:06,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, so so horrifying.

1567
01:20:07,840 --> 01:20:10,720
Speaker 2: So then a couple months later, April twenty seventh, a

1568
01:20:10,800 --> 01:20:14,000
Speaker 2: transent stumbles upon the body of twenty four year old

1569
01:20:14,040 --> 01:20:18,799
Speaker 2: Chari Michelle Payser, a part time made and sex worker.

1570
01:20:19,680 --> 01:20:22,240
Speaker 2: She'd been left in a flower bed in a Bowling

1571
01:20:22,280 --> 01:20:27,040
Speaker 2: Alley parking lot. She'd been violated, strangled, posed, and this

1572
01:20:27,200 --> 01:20:30,839
Speaker 2: is awful. She had a toilet plunger protruding from her vaginant.

1573
01:20:31,600 --> 01:20:36,520
Speaker 2: So this is a person that is intent on degrading,

1574
01:20:37,520 --> 01:20:43,320
Speaker 2: after murdering, degrading these victims. And there's a couple parts

1575
01:20:43,360 --> 01:20:46,160
Speaker 2: in this episode of Real Detective where he is Bob

1576
01:20:46,240 --> 01:20:49,240
Speaker 2: Creed is talking and then he just stops talking and stares,

1577
01:20:49,320 --> 01:20:51,200
Speaker 2: and then they just cut away to something else. He's

1578
01:20:51,280 --> 01:20:55,080
Speaker 2: just like, because he's seeing he's remembering these horrible fucking

1579
01:20:55,200 --> 01:20:58,000
Speaker 2: scenes that he had to come upon end process.

1580
01:20:58,120 --> 01:21:00,280
Speaker 3: Well, what I noticed, too, is that it seems like

1581
01:21:00,600 --> 01:21:02,679
Speaker 3: he's getting more and more bold with where he leaves

1582
01:21:02,720 --> 01:21:05,080
Speaker 3: the bodies. Yeah, because he's not putting him in a

1583
01:21:05,120 --> 01:21:07,240
Speaker 3: drainage ditch where no one will see him put it there.

1584
01:21:07,320 --> 01:21:09,320
Speaker 3: It's putting in a flower bed in a parking lot

1585
01:21:09,360 --> 01:21:12,439
Speaker 3: of a like probably busy business at a bowling alley,

1586
01:21:12,479 --> 01:21:13,080
Speaker 3: bowling alley.

1587
01:21:13,120 --> 01:21:14,759
Speaker 1: That's just so bold.

1588
01:21:15,080 --> 01:21:18,439
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly right, because he's gotten away with it. Now

1589
01:21:18,680 --> 01:21:21,759
Speaker 2: how many, eight, twelve times, or however many whatever number I'm.

1590
01:21:21,640 --> 01:21:24,360
Speaker 1: On, that's fucking with them. Yeah. So now he's like,

1591
01:21:24,520 --> 01:21:26,960
Speaker 1: I'm smarter than the police. I can get away with this.

1592
01:21:27,320 --> 01:21:30,639
Speaker 1: I'm doing whatever I want. I can't breathe, okay, So.

1593
01:21:32,240 --> 01:21:37,040
Speaker 2: Now July fourth, nineteen ninety one, picnickers near Railroad Canyon

1594
01:21:37,160 --> 01:21:39,920
Speaker 2: Road discover the remains of a thirty seven year old

1595
01:21:40,240 --> 01:21:44,880
Speaker 2: Sherry Anne Latham also has a rap sheet for sex

1596
01:21:44,920 --> 01:21:50,080
Speaker 2: work and drug use. Her hand was wrapped around nearby branches,

1597
01:21:50,120 --> 01:21:52,720
Speaker 2: suggesting she was still alive when the killer left her.

1598
01:21:53,240 --> 01:21:59,080
Speaker 1: Oh uh huh. An autopsy later reveals that she'd been strangled,

1599
01:21:59,520 --> 01:22:03,719
Speaker 1: and they cat hairs on her corpse. According to her friends,

1600
01:22:04,000 --> 01:22:08,160
Speaker 1: she did not own a cat. So now the investigators.

1601
01:22:08,080 --> 01:22:11,559
Speaker 2: Are thinking the killer does fuck, so they take those

1602
01:22:11,640 --> 01:22:13,240
Speaker 2: hairs and they put them aside.

1603
01:22:13,880 --> 01:22:17,479
Speaker 1: Kind of monster murders women but also has a cat.

1604
01:22:18,080 --> 01:22:20,439
Speaker 1: I mean it kind of goes to show how great

1605
01:22:20,479 --> 01:22:23,920
Speaker 1: cats are. They love you no matter what, no matter

1606
01:22:23,920 --> 01:22:27,000
Speaker 1: what kind of monster you are. Monsters love them no

1607
01:22:27,000 --> 01:22:27,280
Speaker 1: matter what.

1608
01:22:27,520 --> 01:22:31,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, So they get their first major lead on

1609
01:22:31,640 --> 01:22:34,960
Speaker 2: August fifteenth, nineteen ninety one, because a man driving a

1610
01:22:34,960 --> 01:22:37,879
Speaker 2: gray van picks up a sex worker near the University

1611
01:22:38,000 --> 01:22:42,320
Speaker 2: of California Riverside, and she told investigators that everything was

1612
01:22:42,320 --> 01:22:45,080
Speaker 2: fine at first. Then he becomes angry and starts assaulting her,

1613
01:22:45,439 --> 01:22:47,800
Speaker 2: and she manages to jump out of his van and

1614
01:22:47,920 --> 01:22:53,600
Speaker 2: run down the street. Good girl, So he leaves, but

1615
01:22:54,040 --> 01:22:57,799
Speaker 2: then he stops in a nearby corner and he picks

1616
01:22:57,880 --> 01:23:03,320
Speaker 2: up her friend, twenty three year old Kelly Hammond. So

1617
01:23:03,880 --> 01:23:07,120
Speaker 2: this is what's interesting. This is this I'm reading from

1618
01:23:08,000 --> 01:23:12,160
Speaker 2: a part of that article. But in the episode of

1619
01:23:12,200 --> 01:23:19,559
Speaker 2: Real Detective, when they come upon this body, Bob Creed

1620
01:23:19,800 --> 01:23:22,960
Speaker 2: lifts up the you know, the tarp that's over her

1621
01:23:23,080 --> 01:23:26,200
Speaker 2: whatever it's covering her, and he goes, I know this girl.

1622
01:23:26,360 --> 01:23:30,959
Speaker 1: No, she lives in his neighborhood. Oh, and he watched

1623
01:23:31,080 --> 01:23:33,679
Speaker 1: her and her mom walk by his house a couple

1624
01:23:33,800 --> 01:23:36,799
Speaker 1: times a day, so he knows her. And that's again

1625
01:23:36,880 --> 01:23:39,720
Speaker 1: where he's like, this guy's fucking with me. Yeah, this

1626
01:23:39,760 --> 01:23:43,200
Speaker 1: guy knows that I'm working on this case. He knows

1627
01:23:43,240 --> 01:23:45,760
Speaker 1: these people. Well, I would think this is someone I know.

1628
01:23:46,200 --> 01:23:48,360
Speaker 1: This is someone who knows me right well. The other

1629
01:23:48,400 --> 01:23:50,400
Speaker 1: thing too, it's smart of you to think.

1630
01:23:50,840 --> 01:23:53,879
Speaker 2: The other thing too, is in this episode of Real Detective,

1631
01:23:53,960 --> 01:23:56,719
Speaker 2: they do not mention that that either of these women

1632
01:23:57,080 --> 01:24:00,960
Speaker 2: are prostitutes at all, sex sex or sorry at all,

1633
01:24:02,439 --> 01:24:05,519
Speaker 2: which I think is really interesting because they basically the

1634
01:24:05,600 --> 01:24:08,720
Speaker 2: story comes in as this girl her, the girl that

1635
01:24:08,800 --> 01:24:12,640
Speaker 2: got away. Her name is Ali white Cloud, and she

1636
01:24:12,760 --> 01:24:14,599
Speaker 2: comes in and says, we are at a bar. This

1637
01:24:14,680 --> 01:24:17,080
Speaker 2: is how they and I wonder if it's because that's

1638
01:24:17,120 --> 01:24:19,840
Speaker 2: how either she wanted it presented, or that they were

1639
01:24:19,880 --> 01:24:22,479
Speaker 2: trying to erase the stigma of.

1640
01:24:22,400 --> 01:24:24,280
Speaker 1: Sex corkin, but it's Allie.

1641
01:24:24,800 --> 01:24:27,280
Speaker 2: Ali white Cloud comes in and says, my friend and

1642
01:24:27,280 --> 01:24:28,760
Speaker 2: I were at a bar and we met this guy

1643
01:24:29,520 --> 01:24:32,240
Speaker 2: and she wanted to go home with him. I didn't

1644
01:24:32,280 --> 01:24:34,679
Speaker 2: want to. He offered both of us a ride. I said,

1645
01:24:34,720 --> 01:24:37,680
Speaker 2: don't go with him, and she did. And so she

1646
01:24:37,760 --> 01:24:40,360
Speaker 2: goes to the police and gives a full description and

1647
01:24:40,520 --> 01:24:46,840
Speaker 2: describes the van. So I don't whatever version of this

1648
01:24:46,960 --> 01:24:52,080
Speaker 2: is the truth or whatever, I think it's interesting matter

1649
01:24:52,200 --> 01:24:54,439
Speaker 2: though it doesn't matter, But I also think it's interesting,

1650
01:24:54,479 --> 01:24:56,920
Speaker 2: and I like the fact that real detective just presents

1651
01:24:56,920 --> 01:24:59,360
Speaker 2: it as it's a girl that almost got pulled into

1652
01:24:59,360 --> 01:25:02,160
Speaker 2: a van and then came and spoke for her friend

1653
01:25:02,320 --> 01:25:05,120
Speaker 2: to the police with respect.

1654
01:25:05,720 --> 01:25:06,200
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1655
01:25:06,520 --> 01:25:11,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, So they give they do an APB with the

1656
01:25:11,479 --> 01:25:14,040
Speaker 2: description of this guy and he's the creepiest look it's

1657
01:25:14,040 --> 01:25:18,439
Speaker 2: the creepiest looking picture because he's wearing like sunglasses, and.

1658
01:25:18,520 --> 01:25:20,639
Speaker 1: We have a photograph or like a drawing. It's a drawing,

1659
01:25:20,680 --> 01:25:22,320
Speaker 1: it's a police sketch.

1660
01:25:22,880 --> 01:25:27,400
Speaker 2: And the van he's driving is nineteen eighty nine Mitsubishi van,

1661
01:25:27,560 --> 01:25:29,400
Speaker 2: which is one of the weirdest looking vans.

1662
01:25:29,400 --> 01:25:31,800
Speaker 1: It's got that flat front. Is that the one? Yes?

1663
01:25:32,160 --> 01:25:32,799
Speaker 1: Like it?

1664
01:25:32,960 --> 01:25:35,200
Speaker 2: Yes, Like when you're in the front seat wherever you park,

1665
01:25:35,240 --> 01:25:36,320
Speaker 2: it's like you're right there.

1666
01:25:36,479 --> 01:25:38,440
Speaker 1: I totally know that one. Yeah.

1667
01:25:38,479 --> 01:25:41,120
Speaker 2: And it has a weird almost like a nautical window

1668
01:25:41,200 --> 01:25:43,919
Speaker 2: in the back, like a little round window.

1669
01:25:44,080 --> 01:25:46,559
Speaker 1: Yeh, like a creepy van window. Yeah.

1670
01:25:46,600 --> 01:25:50,439
Speaker 2: So okay, So now they have way more information about

1671
01:25:50,479 --> 01:25:53,080
Speaker 2: this guy than they've had for since nineteen eighty six.

1672
01:25:54,680 --> 01:25:58,360
Speaker 1: So it's a huge it's a huge lead. They put

1673
01:25:58,400 --> 01:26:04,679
Speaker 1: out the APB, and so now the cops are looking

1674
01:26:04,760 --> 01:26:06,599
Speaker 1: for that van. Oh.

1675
01:26:06,640 --> 01:26:08,799
Speaker 2: They also say, is there anything else you can remember?

1676
01:26:09,200 --> 01:26:11,479
Speaker 2: And she says that when he opened up the back,

1677
01:26:12,000 --> 01:26:19,559
Speaker 2: she remembers seeing a red sleeping bag. And at most

1678
01:26:19,560 --> 01:26:24,320
Speaker 2: of these crime scenes they found animal hair which turned

1679
01:26:24,360 --> 01:26:28,240
Speaker 2: out to be a tan cat tan cat hair at

1680
01:26:28,280 --> 01:26:33,479
Speaker 2: every scene, and red nylon fibers which they linked to

1681
01:26:33,600 --> 01:26:36,920
Speaker 2: and match to the kind of nylon fibers that they

1682
01:26:36,960 --> 01:26:38,120
Speaker 2: find on sleeping bags.

1683
01:26:38,160 --> 01:26:39,120
Speaker 1: What a crazy thing.

1684
01:26:39,200 --> 01:26:41,200
Speaker 3: I feel like, there's so many people and this is

1685
01:26:41,200 --> 01:26:43,800
Speaker 3: what he talks about, and someone knows something where it's

1686
01:26:43,840 --> 01:26:45,880
Speaker 3: like that is one detail that you wouldn't why would

1687
01:26:45,920 --> 01:26:49,879
Speaker 3: you bother mentioning that but that is actually really important

1688
01:26:49,920 --> 01:26:50,519
Speaker 3: to the case.

1689
01:26:51,200 --> 01:26:52,160
Speaker 1: So that's really interesting.

1690
01:26:52,200 --> 01:26:54,080
Speaker 3: I thought you were going to say that that she

1691
01:26:54,200 --> 01:26:55,960
Speaker 3: said she saw a cat in his vana.

1692
01:26:57,760 --> 01:27:00,800
Speaker 1: Well it's close. It's the other the other thing.

1693
01:27:00,840 --> 01:27:03,840
Speaker 2: But but that's when in you know, they presented in

1694
01:27:03,880 --> 01:27:06,880
Speaker 2: the real detective show, like when she's giving all that information,

1695
01:27:07,120 --> 01:27:10,000
Speaker 2: when she says that thing about a red sleeping bag,

1696
01:27:10,200 --> 01:27:11,880
Speaker 2: He's just like, dang, this is the guy.

1697
01:27:11,960 --> 01:27:14,679
Speaker 1: I love it. So they put out all that.

1698
01:27:14,600 --> 01:27:21,680
Speaker 2: Information and uh oh, so they the basically from from

1699
01:27:21,800 --> 01:27:25,280
Speaker 2: all of the information and the victims that they've had

1700
01:27:25,280 --> 01:27:28,000
Speaker 2: so far, the task force knows this that all the

1701
01:27:28,080 --> 01:27:32,160
Speaker 2: victims are found raped, stabbed, asphyxiated.

1702
01:27:31,479 --> 01:27:32,559
Speaker 1: Nude posed.

1703
01:27:32,880 --> 01:27:35,719
Speaker 2: They all have ligature marks on their wrists, angles, and neck.

1704
01:27:36,200 --> 01:27:40,040
Speaker 2: They have one set of shoe impressions. So they know

1705
01:27:40,120 --> 01:27:43,679
Speaker 2: that he carries them to the scene dead and leaves

1706
01:27:43,680 --> 01:27:47,080
Speaker 2: them there, and that he works alone. They say that

1707
01:27:47,160 --> 01:27:51,920
Speaker 2: if he's married, his wife would work nights because then

1708
01:27:51,960 --> 01:27:53,880
Speaker 2: he can just do Clearly, he can do whatever he

1709
01:27:53,960 --> 01:27:56,280
Speaker 2: wants at night and he's not being questioned about it

1710
01:27:56,720 --> 01:28:00,320
Speaker 2: or no one's suspicious of him. They never find finger

1711
01:28:00,360 --> 01:28:04,720
Speaker 2: printed any of the scenes, but they consistently find cat hair,

1712
01:28:04,800 --> 01:28:08,160
Speaker 2: and they consistently find those red nylon fibers. Would be

1713
01:28:08,160 --> 01:28:10,840
Speaker 2: more exciting if I had said that before that the

1714
01:28:10,960 --> 01:28:14,759
Speaker 2: thing I just said than anyhow, So on October thirtieth,

1715
01:28:14,840 --> 01:28:18,280
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety one, they see a man is driving along

1716
01:28:18,320 --> 01:28:23,639
Speaker 2: Summer Hilt Drive and he sees what he thinks.

1717
01:28:23,439 --> 01:28:26,400
Speaker 1: Is a mannequin. I'm a mannequin, you guy, ever a

1718
01:28:26,439 --> 01:28:29,760
Speaker 1: fucking mannequin. He goes up and finds that it's the

1719
01:28:29,840 --> 01:28:33,799
Speaker 1: dead body of thirty five year old Delilah Zamoral Wallace,

1720
01:28:35,280 --> 01:28:39,280
Speaker 1: mother of five, also known sex worker and drug addict.

1721
01:28:40,360 --> 01:28:45,800
Speaker 1: She's also Her cause of death is asphyxiation. Then, two

1722
01:28:45,880 --> 01:28:51,439
Speaker 1: days before Christmas, Eleanor Ojeeda Kassarus's body is found near

1723
01:28:51,520 --> 01:28:54,600
Speaker 1: Victoria Avenue, which is just down the street from the

1724
01:28:54,720 --> 01:28:55,840
Speaker 1: Riverside Police station.

1725
01:28:58,040 --> 01:29:01,120
Speaker 2: She's thirty nine years old. She's been strayed and her

1726
01:29:01,240 --> 01:29:03,960
Speaker 2: right breast is missing. She was also had a wrap

1727
01:29:04,000 --> 01:29:08,599
Speaker 2: sheet for sex work and drugs, and the cops are

1728
01:29:08,880 --> 01:29:12,479
Speaker 2: positive that he placed her there too close to the

1729
01:29:12,479 --> 01:29:16,559
Speaker 2: police station took up with them. So the very last

1730
01:29:16,600 --> 01:29:21,160
Speaker 2: victim is thirty one year old Katherine McDonald. She's found

1731
01:29:21,240 --> 01:29:25,160
Speaker 2: raped and murdered in a field by a construction worker.

1732
01:29:25,720 --> 01:29:28,400
Speaker 2: There they find a set of tire tracks and they

1733
01:29:28,439 --> 01:29:34,320
Speaker 2: find footprints that match a pro wing tennis shoe. They

1734
01:29:34,360 --> 01:29:37,400
Speaker 2: know now he's rushing, he's escalating because this is the

1735
01:29:37,439 --> 01:29:38,639
Speaker 2: sloppiest he's ever been.

1736
01:29:41,240 --> 01:29:43,240
Speaker 1: So they process all of that.

1737
01:29:43,960 --> 01:29:47,880
Speaker 2: Then they go to make a next known next of kin,

1738
01:29:48,280 --> 01:29:52,880
Speaker 2: you know, they go to tell notification for the next skin.

1739
01:29:53,439 --> 01:29:55,960
Speaker 2: They go to her house. They find the front door

1740
01:29:56,000 --> 01:29:59,360
Speaker 2: open and the house is dark. They walk through, the

1741
01:29:59,439 --> 01:30:03,720
Speaker 2: house is drawn, and they finally find Catherine's three year

1742
01:30:03,720 --> 01:30:07,400
Speaker 2: old daughter, who's been by herself since her mother disappeared

1743
01:30:07,400 --> 01:30:12,040
Speaker 2: the night before, hiding downstairs. So sad, and it's the

1744
01:30:12,080 --> 01:30:15,800
Speaker 2: saddest part of the whole episode, this little girl who

1745
01:30:15,880 --> 01:30:17,880
Speaker 2: was just hiding alone in a house because her mom

1746
01:30:17,960 --> 01:30:20,400
Speaker 2: didn't come back. Her mom went, took the garbage out

1747
01:30:20,439 --> 01:30:21,160
Speaker 2: and disappeared.

1748
01:30:21,560 --> 01:30:24,120
Speaker 1: Oh so she didn't even see anything. She's just like

1749
01:30:25,439 --> 01:30:30,639
Speaker 1: her mom walked outside and never came back inside at night. Horrifine. Okay,

1750
01:30:30,720 --> 01:30:33,960
Speaker 1: so she was snatched, Yes she was, and which he

1751
01:30:34,000 --> 01:30:37,600
Speaker 1: hadn't done that before. It was out in front of

1752
01:30:37,600 --> 01:30:41,679
Speaker 1: her own house. So god, they have all together.

1753
01:30:41,720 --> 01:30:44,960
Speaker 2: They had found five different types of tire prints at

1754
01:30:45,000 --> 01:30:50,519
Speaker 2: these crime scenes. So so Bob Creed decides he asked

1755
01:30:50,520 --> 01:30:52,800
Speaker 2: the guide to check, is there one type of van

1756
01:30:53,400 --> 01:30:56,240
Speaker 2: that could use all five of those.

1757
01:30:58,360 --> 01:30:59,200
Speaker 1: Types of tires?

1758
01:30:59,320 --> 01:31:01,720
Speaker 2: And one type of van comes back, and it's a

1759
01:31:01,800 --> 01:31:05,960
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty nine Mintsubishi and it's this type of van.

1760
01:31:07,320 --> 01:31:10,720
Speaker 1: It's so weird looking. So on the night of January ninth,

1761
01:31:10,760 --> 01:31:14,679
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety two, Officer Frank Orda is patrolling University Avenue,

1762
01:31:14,720 --> 01:31:18,080
Speaker 1: which is where a lot of sex workers were known

1763
01:31:18,120 --> 01:31:22,000
Speaker 1: to walk, and he sees that exact type of van,

1764
01:31:22,680 --> 01:31:26,160
Speaker 1: so he follows it. Can you imagine seeing that, Yeah,

1765
01:31:26,320 --> 01:31:26,800
Speaker 1: that's there.

1766
01:31:26,800 --> 01:31:29,759
Speaker 2: It is that the fuck and it has expired tags,

1767
01:31:29,880 --> 01:31:34,000
Speaker 2: and so he pulls it over and he talks to

1768
01:31:34,000 --> 01:31:35,800
Speaker 2: the driver a little bit. He asks the driver to

1769
01:31:35,840 --> 01:31:38,360
Speaker 2: open up the back of the van. The driver says, sure,

1770
01:31:38,400 --> 01:31:40,679
Speaker 2: no problem. He opens it up. There's a red sleeping

1771
01:31:40,720 --> 01:31:44,920
Speaker 2: bag there, and the officer places him under arrest. Now

1772
01:31:44,920 --> 01:31:49,040
Speaker 2: they bring him into the station and somebody immediately starts

1773
01:31:49,120 --> 01:31:49,760
Speaker 2: questioning him.

1774
01:31:50,040 --> 01:31:51,320
Speaker 1: They don't wait.

1775
01:31:51,240 --> 01:31:53,360
Speaker 2: For Bob Creed, who is the head of this task

1776
01:31:53,400 --> 01:31:56,519
Speaker 2: force for like five fucking years. They don't wait for

1777
01:31:56,600 --> 01:31:59,639
Speaker 2: him to come down to question him just whoever was there.

1778
01:31:59,880 --> 01:32:03,000
Speaker 2: I don't know exactly how it happened. So the guy

1779
01:32:03,000 --> 01:32:05,320
Speaker 2: they arrest immediately is like, I want a lawyer. I'm

1780
01:32:05,320 --> 01:32:08,880
Speaker 2: not saying anything, son of man. So Bob Creed doesn't

1781
01:32:08,880 --> 01:32:11,400
Speaker 2: even get to question him. Oh but here's what they

1782
01:32:11,600 --> 01:32:14,080
Speaker 2: end up finding out that the guy the driver of

1783
01:32:14,080 --> 01:32:17,439
Speaker 2: this van is a man named Bill suff. He was

1784
01:32:17,479 --> 01:32:22,600
Speaker 2: born August twentieth, nineteen fifty, in Torrance, California. According to

1785
01:32:22,680 --> 01:32:26,479
Speaker 2: his high school classmates, he was friendly, a skillful musician,

1786
01:32:27,040 --> 01:32:29,240
Speaker 2: and he graduated eighty seventh in a class of one

1787
01:32:29,320 --> 01:32:32,840
Speaker 2: hundred and forty four. So not a you know, sounds

1788
01:32:32,840 --> 01:32:36,360
Speaker 2: like a C minus student. His brothers were very troubled.

1789
01:32:36,920 --> 01:32:40,840
Speaker 2: One of them was a drug addict, the other was

1790
01:32:40,880 --> 01:32:46,680
Speaker 2: a pedophile. Oo Suff ended up living in Texas, and

1791
01:32:46,800 --> 01:32:50,759
Speaker 2: there in nineteen seventy four, when he's twenty four years old,

1792
01:32:51,160 --> 01:32:54,160
Speaker 2: he and his former wife were arrested and later convicted

1793
01:32:54,520 --> 01:32:57,400
Speaker 2: for the beating death of their two year old daughter.

1794
01:32:57,560 --> 01:33:00,559
Speaker 1: Are youth fucking kidding me? There?

1795
01:33:00,840 --> 01:33:04,519
Speaker 2: Sentenced to seventy years in prison, but he was paroled

1796
01:33:04,520 --> 01:33:09,759
Speaker 2: after serving ten years. Why no, his wife served twenty months,

1797
01:33:09,800 --> 01:33:12,320
Speaker 2: but her conviision was overturned when it was found that

1798
01:33:12,400 --> 01:33:15,479
Speaker 2: he was fully responsible for the beating death of a

1799
01:33:15,479 --> 01:33:16,639
Speaker 2: two year old child.

1800
01:33:16,680 --> 01:33:19,680
Speaker 3: Can you imagine not only having your child beat to

1801
01:33:19,720 --> 01:33:22,519
Speaker 3: death by your husband, but then getting sent to being

1802
01:33:23,200 --> 01:33:26,840
Speaker 3: held responsible and sent like she's mourning in the most

1803
01:33:26,840 --> 01:33:28,680
Speaker 3: painful way, and then.

1804
01:33:28,920 --> 01:33:32,479
Speaker 1: She goes to jail. And in jail, you hurt your

1805
01:33:32,520 --> 01:33:32,960
Speaker 1: own kid.

1806
01:33:32,960 --> 01:33:34,800
Speaker 2: If you're in jail for hurting your own kid, you're

1807
01:33:34,880 --> 01:33:37,360
Speaker 2: like a pedophile in man's jail.

1808
01:33:37,560 --> 01:33:37,960
Speaker 1: Jesus.

1809
01:33:38,120 --> 01:33:42,879
Speaker 2: I mean they are like tortured. And so, yeah, she didn't.

1810
01:33:43,080 --> 01:33:46,080
Speaker 2: She's spent over a year in prison as a baby killer.

1811
01:33:47,600 --> 01:33:52,920
Speaker 2: So when Bill suff is paroled, he goes back to

1812
01:33:53,000 --> 01:33:56,639
Speaker 2: southern California and gets out of Texas and he then

1813
01:33:57,000 --> 01:33:59,519
Speaker 2: gets a job. He's now forty one years old. He

1814
01:33:59,520 --> 01:34:03,760
Speaker 2: gets a jo as a stock clerk, and he is

1815
01:34:03,880 --> 01:34:07,200
Speaker 2: known to be a writer of books. He likes to

1816
01:34:07,240 --> 01:34:10,559
Speaker 2: drive fancy cars. He does community service work. He also

1817
01:34:10,640 --> 01:34:12,560
Speaker 2: likes to impersonate police officers.

1818
01:34:12,640 --> 01:34:13,439
Speaker 1: Of course he does.

1819
01:34:14,200 --> 01:34:16,720
Speaker 2: His neighbors described him as a friendly nerd who was

1820
01:34:16,800 --> 01:34:18,799
Speaker 2: always doing things to help people.

1821
01:34:19,479 --> 01:34:20,479
Speaker 1: What the fuck?

1822
01:34:20,800 --> 01:34:25,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, So basically, now Bob Creed is scrambling to find

1823
01:34:25,640 --> 01:34:28,479
Speaker 2: evidence they can hold him on because they finally have

1824
01:34:28,560 --> 01:34:32,040
Speaker 2: him in custody, but you know he's going to get

1825
01:34:32,080 --> 01:34:34,000
Speaker 2: he's going to get out, and he's and more women

1826
01:34:34,040 --> 01:34:37,799
Speaker 2: are going to die. So they look into his background.

1827
01:34:37,840 --> 01:34:41,400
Speaker 2: They find out that he works for Riverside County Supply

1828
01:34:42,040 --> 01:34:46,640
Speaker 2: So he is a clerk at the supply company that

1829
01:34:46,840 --> 01:34:53,599
Speaker 2: supplies desks and chairs for the Riverside Police Department. So

1830
01:34:53,720 --> 01:34:57,759
Speaker 2: when they were putting together the task force and building

1831
01:34:57,840 --> 01:35:01,400
Speaker 2: the task force, every time they would order a desk

1832
01:35:01,600 --> 01:35:05,840
Speaker 2: or some chairs or a chalkboard, well, Bill Souff was

1833
01:35:05,880 --> 01:35:08,599
Speaker 2: the guy that would come and deliver it straight into

1834
01:35:08,680 --> 01:35:14,719
Speaker 2: the room where they were investigating his serial murders.

1835
01:35:15,000 --> 01:35:17,639
Speaker 1: I bet he enjoyed that so much.

1836
01:35:17,680 --> 01:35:20,960
Speaker 2: He not only enjoyed it, he knew exactly what they

1837
01:35:21,000 --> 01:35:23,599
Speaker 2: were doing. So the first time they knew that they

1838
01:35:23,640 --> 01:35:27,120
Speaker 2: had tire imprints, he changed the tires on his van

1839
01:35:27,760 --> 01:35:30,280
Speaker 2: every time he would go in there because they were constantly.

1840
01:35:30,280 --> 01:35:35,080
Speaker 2: At one point, they said some officers working on the

1841
01:35:35,120 --> 01:35:38,080
Speaker 2: case asked him if they could use his phone and

1842
01:35:38,240 --> 01:35:42,200
Speaker 2: made a phone call on his phone trying to track

1843
01:35:42,280 --> 01:35:45,960
Speaker 2: something down for the murders he was committing. So he

1844
01:35:46,200 --> 01:35:50,080
Speaker 2: was just this neutral face in the background that they

1845
01:35:50,160 --> 01:35:52,680
Speaker 2: saw as like, oh, that's the delivery guy, that's the

1846
01:35:52,760 --> 01:35:56,439
Speaker 2: clerk guy. But meanwhile, he was all eyes and ears

1847
01:35:56,439 --> 01:35:58,360
Speaker 2: every time he was in that room. He was photo

1848
01:35:58,680 --> 01:36:01,559
Speaker 2: looking at everything, was memorizing all of it. He knew

1849
01:36:01,560 --> 01:36:04,120
Speaker 2: exactly what they were doing, and he knew who they were.

1850
01:36:04,160 --> 01:36:06,120
Speaker 1: Which is weird that he then didn't get rid of

1851
01:36:06,160 --> 01:36:07,120
Speaker 1: the red sleeping bag.

1852
01:36:07,280 --> 01:36:10,000
Speaker 2: Kind of right, that must not have been a prominent

1853
01:36:10,040 --> 01:36:13,040
Speaker 2: thing up on the board. But it's so amazing because

1854
01:36:13,040 --> 01:36:16,080
Speaker 2: they in real Detective, they set it in really perfectly

1855
01:36:16,120 --> 01:36:18,559
Speaker 2: where he's in the bat when like the first time

1856
01:36:18,600 --> 01:36:21,400
Speaker 2: they have the task force meeting, Bob Creed clears the

1857
01:36:21,479 --> 01:36:24,040
Speaker 2: room and then starts telling everybody blah blah blah.

1858
01:36:24,080 --> 01:36:26,479
Speaker 1: Well, Bill stuff is one of the people he asked

1859
01:36:26,479 --> 01:36:27,240
Speaker 1: to leave the room.

1860
01:36:27,880 --> 01:36:32,439
Speaker 2: So he's in there like he's working side by side

1861
01:36:32,800 --> 01:36:39,759
Speaker 2: with an like near the police. So Bob Creed gets

1862
01:36:39,800 --> 01:36:42,200
Speaker 2: a search warrant for Bill Seff's house and when he

1863
01:36:42,320 --> 01:36:45,880
Speaker 2: arrives there, he's surprised to meet Bill Souff's eighteen year

1864
01:36:45,880 --> 01:36:50,040
Speaker 2: old white Oh god, so this is where it all

1865
01:36:50,080 --> 01:36:55,040
Speaker 2: comes together. She tells the detective she works nights. He's

1866
01:36:55,040 --> 01:36:57,640
Speaker 2: standing in their kitchen. She offers to make coffee. She's like,

1867
01:36:57,680 --> 01:36:59,760
Speaker 2: I need coffee because I'm so tired because I was

1868
01:36:59,840 --> 01:37:00,400
Speaker 2: up all night.

1869
01:37:00,680 --> 01:37:03,800
Speaker 1: He's like, oh, you work nights. A tan cat runs

1870
01:37:03,800 --> 01:37:04,439
Speaker 1: through the room.

1871
01:37:05,000 --> 01:37:07,400
Speaker 2: He looks over and sees a pair of prowing tennis

1872
01:37:07,439 --> 01:37:10,240
Speaker 2: shoes over in the corner where all the shoes are

1873
01:37:10,240 --> 01:37:14,320
Speaker 2: by the back door. So when he's looking out the window,

1874
01:37:14,439 --> 01:37:17,920
Speaker 2: he sees a truck bed that's filled with tires, and

1875
01:37:17,960 --> 01:37:20,160
Speaker 2: he's like, what's up with the tires And she's like, oh,

1876
01:37:20,200 --> 01:37:22,639
Speaker 2: he's always out there changing the tires on that van.

1877
01:37:23,360 --> 01:37:26,240
Speaker 2: So he was changing the tires. Anytime he would see

1878
01:37:26,280 --> 01:37:28,879
Speaker 2: them get a tire imprint, he would change the tires

1879
01:37:28,880 --> 01:37:34,720
Speaker 2: off the van. Then the kicker is he looks at

1880
01:37:34,720 --> 01:37:39,240
Speaker 2: the lamp that's hanging over the kitchen table, tips it

1881
01:37:39,360 --> 01:37:41,720
Speaker 2: up and sees it's exactly the same kind of light

1882
01:37:41,720 --> 01:37:45,760
Speaker 2: bulb that was left inside his victim, and he's like,

1883
01:37:45,920 --> 01:37:50,080
Speaker 2: this is we're here. So he essentially they arrest him,

1884
01:37:50,160 --> 01:37:53,040
Speaker 2: they get him. He has tried and convicted for twelve

1885
01:37:53,080 --> 01:37:56,040
Speaker 2: counts of first degree murder and one count of attempted murder.

1886
01:37:56,520 --> 01:37:59,439
Speaker 2: The jury deliberated for ten minutes. Oh my God, and

1887
01:37:59,479 --> 01:38:01,720
Speaker 2: they came back. They gave him the death penalty.

1888
01:38:01,960 --> 01:38:06,519
Speaker 1: He's he's still on death row in San Bentin to

1889
01:38:06,640 --> 01:38:09,559
Speaker 1: this day, and the police believe he is responsible for

1890
01:38:09,600 --> 01:38:12,679
Speaker 1: twenty two murders, if not more in Riverside County.

1891
01:38:12,720 --> 01:38:14,360
Speaker 3: I wonder what, you know, he was gone for those

1892
01:38:14,360 --> 01:38:17,639
Speaker 3: two years. I wonder where he went and what happened. Yeah,

1893
01:38:17,760 --> 01:38:20,759
Speaker 3: time you mean where there was no bodies found? Yeah, yeah,

1894
01:38:20,880 --> 01:38:22,360
Speaker 3: or yeah there was no viruceron for two years.

1895
01:38:22,479 --> 01:38:25,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, because that's a long time, and he usually it

1896
01:38:25,479 --> 01:38:27,640
Speaker 1: just goes faster and faster. Yeah.

1897
01:38:28,360 --> 01:38:30,599
Speaker 2: And Bob Creed, who I have to say, is just

1898
01:38:30,640 --> 01:38:34,000
Speaker 2: like one of those I feel like detectives are those

1899
01:38:34,240 --> 01:38:37,800
Speaker 2: They're like all the good cops become detectives. It's like

1900
01:38:37,840 --> 01:38:39,760
Speaker 2: the ones that are on the street that are good

1901
01:38:39,800 --> 01:38:42,880
Speaker 2: at it and they're smart and gay hair. Yeah, and

1902
01:38:42,920 --> 01:38:45,400
Speaker 2: they get promoted and they become detectives. And he so

1903
01:38:45,600 --> 01:38:48,360
Speaker 2: clearly was one of those people that like treated these

1904
01:38:48,400 --> 01:38:50,599
Speaker 2: women like his neighbors and his friends. And he when

1905
01:38:50,600 --> 01:38:52,760
Speaker 2: he talks about going to talk to Kelly Hammond's mother,

1906
01:38:53,160 --> 01:38:55,800
Speaker 2: it's like a big part of that episode where he's like,

1907
01:38:55,840 --> 01:38:57,600
Speaker 2: we know these people, we have to tell them. We

1908
01:38:57,680 --> 01:39:00,280
Speaker 2: have to now change their life for the worst by

1909
01:39:00,400 --> 01:39:05,960
Speaker 2: us being there and being like, your daughter's dead. He eventually,

1910
01:39:06,240 --> 01:39:09,639
Speaker 2: Detective Bob Creed eventually became the head of Major Crimes,

1911
01:39:09,840 --> 01:39:15,360
Speaker 2: the major Crimes unit in Riverside. Yeah, and that's the

1912
01:39:15,960 --> 01:39:17,800
Speaker 2: Riverside serial killer.

1913
01:39:17,920 --> 01:39:21,280
Speaker 1: Wow, I was fucking crazy and I have no idea.

1914
01:39:22,280 --> 01:39:24,800
Speaker 2: Good job, dude, Thanks, I know I had no idea either,

1915
01:39:25,560 --> 01:39:28,719
Speaker 2: Like Riverside is close by, Yeah, and I've never heard.

1916
01:39:28,520 --> 01:39:31,160
Speaker 3: Of that guy either. It's so funny, like the way

1917
01:39:31,200 --> 01:39:33,280
Speaker 3: you find these murders. Now, I just put in the

1918
01:39:33,320 --> 01:39:36,479
Speaker 3: weirdest searches and you still don't know anything.

1919
01:39:37,200 --> 01:39:40,040
Speaker 2: I know what's going on. Also, I do find it

1920
01:39:40,080 --> 01:39:46,559
Speaker 2: fascinating like that they know almost nothing about this guy's childhood,

1921
01:39:46,600 --> 01:39:48,519
Speaker 2: which I would love to know because obviously it was

1922
01:39:48,560 --> 01:39:51,639
Speaker 2: insanely fucked up. If his two brothers are insanely fucked

1923
01:39:51,680 --> 01:39:54,160
Speaker 2: up and he is the worst of all of them,

1924
01:39:54,160 --> 01:39:56,599
Speaker 2: Migro would love to know what kind of evil and

1925
01:39:57,160 --> 01:39:59,840
Speaker 2: insane parents they had and what that situation was. But

1926
01:40:01,160 --> 01:40:04,840
Speaker 2: I really love that show for how much it really shows.

1927
01:40:05,240 --> 01:40:07,360
Speaker 2: It's like this side that you never get to hear,

1928
01:40:07,400 --> 01:40:10,200
Speaker 2: which is these detectives and like the experience that they

1929
01:40:10,200 --> 01:40:13,400
Speaker 2: go through and the years sometimes that they spend trying

1930
01:40:13,439 --> 01:40:18,080
Speaker 2: to find these killers. It's just it's so insane. There's

1931
01:40:18,120 --> 01:40:20,959
Speaker 2: there's the one on the killer that you did the guy.

1932
01:40:20,800 --> 01:40:26,240
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Ben Mendelssohn Uh no, his last name is

1933
01:40:26,280 --> 01:40:31,320
Speaker 1: Ben something. Oh uh child bar Jonah, Yes, yes, yes,

1934
01:40:31,960 --> 01:40:33,439
Speaker 1: it wasn't even what I was saying, and you knew

1935
01:40:33,439 --> 01:40:35,640
Speaker 1: what I was saying. I'm so shocked that I knew that.

1936
01:40:35,840 --> 01:40:38,599
Speaker 3: And what I like about that show too, is that it, uh,

1937
01:40:38,760 --> 01:40:41,120
Speaker 3: it gives you little glimpses into the PTSD that you

1938
01:40:41,240 --> 01:40:43,280
Speaker 3: know they fucking have, and so they're not trying to

1939
01:40:43,360 --> 01:40:44,479
Speaker 3: be like, this is what happened.

1940
01:40:44,479 --> 01:40:47,400
Speaker 1: It's like, are you the one I the one I did?

1941
01:40:47,439 --> 01:40:50,599
Speaker 1: He starts crying. Yes. No, they suffer terribly.

1942
01:40:50,680 --> 01:40:54,120
Speaker 2: I mean Jesus like that guy having to it was

1943
01:40:54,240 --> 01:40:58,360
Speaker 2: like a child killer that had multiple victims. Yeah, and

1944
01:40:58,479 --> 01:41:01,839
Speaker 2: every story was horrible, and and that one is especially

1945
01:41:01,880 --> 01:41:04,640
Speaker 2: great because the way he he just the way he

1946
01:41:04,760 --> 01:41:08,240
Speaker 2: eventually finds him is he starts walking the path that

1947
01:41:08,320 --> 01:41:12,160
Speaker 2: those children were taking to school and he finds Barjonas

1948
01:41:12,200 --> 01:41:14,120
Speaker 2: standing in a security guard outfit at the end of

1949
01:41:14,160 --> 01:41:14,960
Speaker 2: one of those alleys.

1950
01:41:15,200 --> 01:41:18,320
Speaker 3: This is why you make them move their finger from

1951
01:41:18,320 --> 01:41:20,920
Speaker 3: the photo. That's right, that's why if I can do it,

1952
01:41:20,960 --> 01:41:23,640
Speaker 3: that's exactly right. If someone knocks on your door, if

1953
01:41:23,680 --> 01:41:25,839
Speaker 3: you get pulled over and they're holding up a badge,

1954
01:41:26,120 --> 01:41:29,400
Speaker 3: you fucking call that number into the police department and

1955
01:41:29,479 --> 01:41:30,000
Speaker 3: make sure.

1956
01:41:29,840 --> 01:41:30,800
Speaker 1: It's real before you.

1957
01:41:31,240 --> 01:41:34,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess if you're on a rural area, if

1958
01:41:34,640 --> 01:41:35,400
Speaker 3: you're alone in the.

1959
01:41:35,320 --> 01:41:38,640
Speaker 1: House, now you're finding reasons to say rural. God, damn it,

1960
01:41:38,840 --> 01:41:42,880
Speaker 1: I am. You're right rural. You can say farmland. You're

1961
01:41:42,880 --> 01:41:45,519
Speaker 1: in farmland, out in the country, out in the country.

1962
01:41:45,760 --> 01:41:49,479
Speaker 1: Do not you don't have to. You don't have to.

1963
01:41:50,160 --> 01:41:52,280
Speaker 2: Well, you get to check first, it's your right. And like,

1964
01:41:52,680 --> 01:41:56,080
Speaker 2: I'll tell you what. Those FBI agents flip that. The

1965
01:41:56,160 --> 01:41:59,720
Speaker 2: one guy flipped open his quiet friend behind him. I

1966
01:41:59,760 --> 01:42:01,599
Speaker 2: was like, what are you doing? It kind of looked

1967
01:42:01,600 --> 01:42:04,640
Speaker 2: like they were coming for us. Take it away a

1968
01:42:04,680 --> 01:42:05,120
Speaker 2: little bit.

1969
01:42:05,560 --> 01:42:08,559
Speaker 1: But the you don't look at the ID when someone

1970
01:42:08,560 --> 01:42:10,639
Speaker 1: flips a thing like that at you. You look at

1971
01:42:10,640 --> 01:42:11,160
Speaker 1: the badge.

1972
01:42:11,280 --> 01:42:13,120
Speaker 2: You look at the thing where you're like, oh, this

1973
01:42:13,280 --> 01:42:15,439
Speaker 2: is a real cop, and you get all caught up

1974
01:42:15,439 --> 01:42:17,679
Speaker 2: in the kind of like the gold badge part.

1975
01:42:17,920 --> 01:42:19,680
Speaker 1: I wonder if you're allowed to say, hand me that,

1976
01:42:19,800 --> 01:42:21,400
Speaker 1: and I want to look at it. What's your name,

1977
01:42:21,479 --> 01:42:23,320
Speaker 1: what's your this, what's your that? Well, a real cop

1978
01:42:23,320 --> 01:42:25,160
Speaker 1: would give it to you. Yeah, what would they have

1979
01:42:25,200 --> 01:42:27,519
Speaker 1: to lose? Yeah, totally.

1980
01:42:27,600 --> 01:42:29,280
Speaker 2: I mean they would want you to believe they were

1981
01:42:29,320 --> 01:42:30,920
Speaker 2: a cop. It's why they're showing it to you.

1982
01:42:32,080 --> 01:42:37,280
Speaker 1: Listen, hey, be cautious instead of everyone listening is like

1983
01:42:37,439 --> 01:42:41,800
Speaker 1: we are. Yeah, you've already taught us that. We know

1984
01:42:42,640 --> 01:42:44,800
Speaker 1: we did that before. Oh my god.

1985
01:42:44,920 --> 01:42:47,720
Speaker 3: That's all in this podcast is just warning you and

1986
01:42:47,760 --> 01:42:50,360
Speaker 3: scaring you and giving you anxiety. It's not telling you

1987
01:42:50,600 --> 01:42:52,559
Speaker 3: how to get rid of your anxiety.

1988
01:42:55,720 --> 01:42:58,559
Speaker 1: Okay, we're back, Karen. Are there any updates there are?

1989
01:42:59,200 --> 01:43:03,160
Speaker 2: This is such a obviously another horrible moment in time,

1990
01:43:03,439 --> 01:43:07,360
Speaker 2: so this correction is awful as well. When Seff murdered

1991
01:43:07,400 --> 01:43:10,240
Speaker 2: his daughter, I said that she was two years old.

1992
01:43:10,439 --> 01:43:12,360
Speaker 2: She was actually two months old.

1993
01:43:12,520 --> 01:43:13,360
Speaker 1: Jesus Christ.

1994
01:43:13,520 --> 01:43:16,400
Speaker 2: Also in twenty twenty four, investigators linked Bill suff to

1995
01:43:16,400 --> 01:43:18,759
Speaker 2: the nineteen eighty six cold case killing of a nineteen

1996
01:43:18,840 --> 01:43:22,240
Speaker 2: year old southern California woman named Kathy Small. They did

1997
01:43:22,240 --> 01:43:25,920
Speaker 2: that using DNA from Kathy's clothing and the rape kit

1998
01:43:25,960 --> 01:43:29,280
Speaker 2: that was collected after her murder, and when detectives interviewed

1999
01:43:29,280 --> 01:43:32,479
Speaker 2: stuff about the DNA match, he confessed he remains on

2000
01:43:32,520 --> 01:43:34,559
Speaker 2: death row. He's seventy five years old.

2001
01:43:35,040 --> 01:43:35,360
Speaker 1: Wow.

2002
01:43:35,479 --> 01:43:39,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, well this was such a dark episode. Yeah,

2003
01:43:39,360 --> 01:43:41,360
Speaker 3: let's go back and hear what we had to say

2004
01:43:41,360 --> 01:43:43,600
Speaker 3: about our good things of the week way back in

2005
01:43:43,600 --> 01:43:44,439
Speaker 3: twenty seventeen.

2006
01:43:47,880 --> 01:43:51,519
Speaker 1: What's a positive thing from this week? I fucking totally

2007
01:43:51,560 --> 01:43:55,920
Speaker 1: knew it at some point and I forgot it. What's yours?

2008
01:43:56,760 --> 01:44:00,000
Speaker 2: I would just say that this my this past birthday

2009
01:44:00,320 --> 01:44:02,320
Speaker 2: was like one of the best birthdays I've ever had,

2010
01:44:02,880 --> 01:44:06,240
Speaker 2: because I'm at the age now where like I honestly

2011
01:44:06,320 --> 01:44:08,439
Speaker 2: don't care about birthdays. So the last couple have been

2012
01:44:08,720 --> 01:44:12,519
Speaker 2: super low key, if not totally doing nothing.

2013
01:44:12,600 --> 01:44:15,040
Speaker 3: You didn't even fucking we were recording that day and

2014
01:44:15,080 --> 01:44:15,840
Speaker 3: you didn't tell me.

2015
01:44:15,920 --> 01:44:18,559
Speaker 1: I know, I mean I didn't remember, well, but why

2016
01:44:18,560 --> 01:44:20,760
Speaker 1: would you. I mean that you should have told me,

2017
01:44:21,160 --> 01:44:22,400
Speaker 1: but you didn't care, So you don't.

2018
01:44:22,680 --> 01:44:25,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, But but that was in my mind. I was like,

2019
01:44:25,439 --> 01:44:28,280
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter and I don't care. But it's actually

2020
01:44:28,320 --> 01:44:31,000
Speaker 2: not true because you, well, first of all, so many

2021
01:44:31,040 --> 01:44:34,280
Speaker 2: people because of your tweet responded to the lovely tweet

2022
01:44:34,320 --> 01:44:36,840
Speaker 2: you sent to me about my birthday. But there were

2023
01:44:36,880 --> 01:44:41,920
Speaker 2: just so many nice things, and not just people the

2024
01:44:41,960 --> 01:44:44,160
Speaker 2: listen of the podcast, but then like my actual friends

2025
01:44:44,200 --> 01:44:46,880
Speaker 2: knew and said lovely things. And it's like when you

2026
01:44:46,920 --> 01:44:50,080
Speaker 2: actually give people a chance to do that, if they

2027
01:44:50,120 --> 01:44:53,959
Speaker 2: want to them, they do and it's really nice.

2028
01:44:53,720 --> 01:44:55,080
Speaker 1: And it makes them feel good too.

2029
01:44:55,360 --> 01:44:58,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, It's just it was just lovely and we

2030
01:44:58,600 --> 01:45:01,240
Speaker 2: had that fun dinner and watching d Yeah, it was

2031
01:45:01,280 --> 01:45:04,360
Speaker 2: so nice, Like what if I just threw up.

2032
01:45:06,240 --> 01:45:06,880
Speaker 1: For no reason.

2033
01:45:07,080 --> 01:45:11,240
Speaker 2: It was just like a really lovely kind of redefining

2034
01:45:11,880 --> 01:45:12,880
Speaker 2: birthday experience.

2035
01:45:13,600 --> 01:45:17,360
Speaker 1: I love that. Yeah, it was nice. Happy birthday, Thanks congratulations,

2036
01:45:17,880 --> 01:45:19,040
Speaker 1: Thanks so much. Way to go.

2037
01:45:20,479 --> 01:45:23,759
Speaker 3: Something I love or I'm happy about is when Stephen

2038
01:45:24,040 --> 01:45:25,960
Speaker 3: Baby sits the cats when we go out of town.

2039
01:45:26,760 --> 01:45:28,639
Speaker 3: It just makes me so happy because I know they

2040
01:45:28,680 --> 01:45:30,680
Speaker 3: love him and they like hanging out with him.

2041
01:45:30,720 --> 01:45:32,879
Speaker 1: And I know this because Stephen.

2042
01:45:33,120 --> 01:45:34,799
Speaker 3: The first couple of days of us being gone, Stephen

2043
01:45:34,920 --> 01:45:36,960
Speaker 3: Baby's out them and sent me photos constantly and I

2044
01:45:36,960 --> 01:45:38,680
Speaker 3: could tell they were happy and they don't run away

2045
01:45:38,680 --> 01:45:42,000
Speaker 3: when he comes in. And then my dad was going

2046
01:45:42,080 --> 01:45:43,839
Speaker 3: to stay at our place for the rest of the weekend,

2047
01:45:44,080 --> 01:45:47,160
Speaker 3: and so Stephen left, and when my dad, who doesn't

2048
01:45:47,240 --> 01:45:49,680
Speaker 3: like cats, came in the door, he said, oh, well,

2049
01:45:49,720 --> 01:45:51,679
Speaker 3: this came out at first and then ran away immediately,

2050
01:45:51,680 --> 01:45:55,320
Speaker 3: And I think he thought my dad was Stephen and

2051
01:45:55,400 --> 01:45:58,280
Speaker 3: got excited because the guy who gives them all the

2052
01:45:58,320 --> 01:46:01,800
Speaker 3: cookies was there, and then realized it was my dad

2053
01:46:01,880 --> 01:46:02,240
Speaker 3: right away.

2054
01:46:02,280 --> 01:46:04,400
Speaker 1: So thanks Stephen. It means a lot to me that

2055
01:46:04,840 --> 01:46:08,840
Speaker 1: to have someone there who I really loves my cats.

2056
01:46:08,960 --> 01:46:11,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I just have the best time. And

2057
01:46:11,240 --> 01:46:13,599
Speaker 4: like I've always told you that, like I'll come over here.

2058
01:46:13,640 --> 01:46:15,720
Speaker 4: You're always like you and Vince always like come do

2059
01:46:15,800 --> 01:46:17,400
Speaker 4: some work, hang out for a while, and then I

2060
01:46:17,439 --> 01:46:18,519
Speaker 4: end up just hanging out.

2061
01:46:18,400 --> 01:46:20,880
Speaker 1: With the cat, get anything done.

2062
01:46:20,920 --> 01:46:23,680
Speaker 4: It's just pictures of Elvis, good pets. Yeah, I love it,

2063
01:46:23,800 --> 01:46:24,400
Speaker 4: have a good time.

2064
01:46:25,040 --> 01:46:27,720
Speaker 3: You have my Instagram password for the cats too, so

2065
01:46:27,760 --> 01:46:31,200
Speaker 3: I'm like, fucking go for it. It's great, thank you,

2066
01:46:31,360 --> 01:46:33,120
Speaker 3: So thanks for doing that. And yes I pay him,

2067
01:46:33,400 --> 01:46:37,040
Speaker 3: don't worry, I'm not. You get paid and loving and

2068
01:46:37,200 --> 01:46:44,400
Speaker 3: like's being nice to you. Yeah, okay, we're back. Steven

2069
01:46:44,439 --> 01:46:47,200
Speaker 3: no longer watches my animals when I'm gone. I'm sorry

2070
01:46:47,200 --> 01:46:49,600
Speaker 3: to say that. We couldn't let him anymore because he

2071
01:46:49,680 --> 01:46:51,599
Speaker 3: worked for us. So my friend's been doing it since

2072
01:46:51,600 --> 01:46:55,360
Speaker 3: in my friend Crystal. So Stephen just gets pictures of

2073
01:46:55,360 --> 01:46:56,000
Speaker 3: the animals.

2074
01:46:56,240 --> 01:47:00,160
Speaker 2: That's right, Sorry, Steven, all right, So this so it

2075
01:47:00,320 --> 01:47:03,000
Speaker 2: was originally called never a Mannequin.

2076
01:47:02,640 --> 01:47:04,040
Speaker 1: Which is a hard one to top.

2077
01:47:04,200 --> 01:47:09,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, we could call it what do girls like? Combining

2078
01:47:09,320 --> 01:47:11,200
Speaker 3: true crime and zac Efron? Is what you meant by that?

2079
01:47:11,280 --> 01:47:12,599
Speaker 1: And you are not wrong? Yeah?

2080
01:47:12,760 --> 01:47:14,920
Speaker 2: Or flip a coin to flip a coin, which was

2081
01:47:15,240 --> 01:47:19,519
Speaker 2: Georgia talking about our lack of professionalism compared to say

2082
01:47:19,560 --> 01:47:23,560
Speaker 2: the other investigative podcasts that we are fans.

2083
01:47:23,200 --> 01:47:26,519
Speaker 1: Of and not them. Yeah, and never happened, never tried to.

2084
01:47:26,760 --> 01:47:29,320
Speaker 1: Or we could call it reasons to say rural. Oh

2085
01:47:29,360 --> 01:47:32,240
Speaker 1: I hate that words so much. There's always a reason

2086
01:47:32,280 --> 01:47:34,160
Speaker 1: to say it. Yeah, get in there. All right.

2087
01:47:34,200 --> 01:47:36,680
Speaker 3: Well, thank you guys for listening to rewind. Let's go

2088
01:47:36,800 --> 01:47:39,400
Speaker 3: back in time and we'll let Elvis say goodbye to

2089
01:47:39,439 --> 01:47:46,760
Speaker 3: you from twenty seventeen. You guys, thanks for listening. Yes,

2090
01:47:46,880 --> 01:47:49,800
Speaker 3: we really appreciate it, and you guys are this is

2091
01:47:49,840 --> 01:47:51,639
Speaker 3: the best. I can't this is the best.

2092
01:47:51,760 --> 01:47:54,800
Speaker 1: It's pretty nice. It is. Yeah, I like it all right. Well,

2093
01:47:55,400 --> 01:48:00,320
Speaker 1: you guys stay sexy and don't get murdered. Elvis, you

2094
01:48:00,360 --> 01:48:04,560
Speaker 1: want a cookie, Okay, Bye,