WEBVTT - Collective Media in the Second Trump Era 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:07.160 Als Media. Welcome to It could happen here a podcast 0:00:07.200 --> 0:00:09.160 that I introduced the same way almost every time. I 0:00:09.160 --> 0:00:12.240 don't know, you listen to the show, right, you're listening 0:00:12.360 --> 0:00:15.800 at like some point in the future, you probably know 0:00:15.920 --> 0:00:18.400 the things falling apart putting back together again Intro. I 0:00:18.400 --> 0:00:20.400 don't have to do it. We are doing something that 0:00:20.400 --> 0:00:22.680 we have done before and I guess we'll continue to do, 0:00:22.760 --> 0:00:26.279 which is talking to other anarchist media projects about their 0:00:26.360 --> 0:00:31.000 work and how things are going, and yeah, the general why, 0:00:31.080 --> 0:00:35.040 how what of it all? And today we're talking with 0:00:35.080 --> 0:00:38.600 the Collective Anarchist Writers, and very specifically we're talking to 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:41.720 Shirley Branson, who is a writer, translator, and teacher currently 0:00:41.720 --> 0:00:45.440 living in so called New York. Carla joy Bergman who 0:00:45.520 --> 0:00:48.080 lives across the border in Canada and is a mom, writer, 0:00:48.400 --> 0:00:50.879 artist and loves crows. Very important. We'll be coming that 0:00:50.960 --> 0:00:54.000 back to that in a second. And Vicky osteriwhil who 0:00:54.040 --> 0:00:56.840 is a worker, writer and agitator based in Philadelphia, And 0:00:56.920 --> 0:00:58.320 all three of you, welcome to the show. 0:00:58.600 --> 0:01:01.480 Hi, thanks for having us, Thanks so much for having us, 0:01:01.480 --> 0:01:04.800 for having us, love your project. I also just wanted 0:01:04.800 --> 0:01:07.240 to give a shout out to our fourth member, Danny 0:01:07.360 --> 0:01:11.280 or listen, who's not here today because she's working paid work, 0:01:11.520 --> 0:01:14.880 who just rounds us out so beautifully and wanted to 0:01:14.920 --> 0:01:15.520 say her name. 0:01:16.120 --> 0:01:18.680 Yeah, I'm excited to talk about this, and partly I'm 0:01:18.720 --> 0:01:21.840 excited to talk about it because so the acronym for 0:01:21.840 --> 0:01:24.720 this is caw and there's a whole crow theme going on, 0:01:24.920 --> 0:01:27.920 and we love a crow here in Portland. It is 0:01:28.200 --> 0:01:29.119 maybe our big thing. 0:01:30.080 --> 0:01:31.319 Yeah, I'm in Vancouver. 0:01:31.760 --> 0:01:33.960 Well I was in Vancouver, just stopped from there, but 0:01:34.080 --> 0:01:38.520 Pacific Northwest and so it's pro highway, you know, thousands 0:01:38.560 --> 0:01:39.600 and thousands of crows. 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:41.280 Oh yeah, I got it. 0:01:41.480 --> 0:01:43.880 I think the crow is like what ultimately sealed the 0:01:43.880 --> 0:01:46.839 project for us, honestly, Yeah, hell. 0:01:46.800 --> 0:01:49.720 Yeah it was. It really came together around around the 0:01:50.120 --> 0:01:51.240 Corvid theme, I think. 0:01:51.320 --> 0:01:51.520 Yeah. 0:01:51.680 --> 0:01:55.960 Yeah, in the combination of enjoying shiny things, extreme intelligence, 0:01:56.000 --> 0:01:58.240 and never ending spite. I think you're all sort of 0:01:58.280 --> 0:01:59.480 motivating factors for all. 0:01:59.360 --> 0:02:04.280 Of us, and that they are collective and have meetings 0:02:04.320 --> 0:02:06.160 often throughout the day. 0:02:06.680 --> 0:02:09.440 A collective called the Murder, which is also pretty badass. 0:02:11.760 --> 0:02:13.840 Yeah, there's a huge thing in Portland here where we 0:02:13.919 --> 0:02:17.680 have the Mega Murder. So every every like morning, all 0:02:17.720 --> 0:02:19.520 the crows sort of fly off into their different like 0:02:19.560 --> 0:02:22.160 little murders, and they go they you know, they go 0:02:22.200 --> 0:02:24.440 out and hang out in the city. And then at 0:02:24.480 --> 0:02:27.399 a round sunset every day, all of the crows fly 0:02:27.520 --> 0:02:29.880 back into the city. They have their like giant mega 0:02:29.960 --> 0:02:32.280 murdering meeting. There's thousands and thousands of them. You know, 0:02:32.320 --> 0:02:34.320 you look up and you just see them like the herds, 0:02:34.800 --> 0:02:36.760 like that, the murders. The crow is flying past. And 0:02:36.800 --> 0:02:38.919 if you there's bificent spots in Portland where you can 0:02:38.960 --> 0:02:41.720 just go see all of the all all all the 0:02:41.760 --> 0:02:45.560 crows hanging out and you know, doing doing doing whatever 0:02:45.600 --> 0:02:48.560 the things crows do. When literally in entire cities where 0:02:48.560 --> 0:02:50.120 the crows gathered together every night. 0:02:50.200 --> 0:02:53.400 Oh no, it's a spokes council. 0:02:54.880 --> 0:02:56.760 I don't it's not a spokes assel because all of 0:02:56.760 --> 0:02:59.960 them are there. I feel like that's an assembly. 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:04.800 Yeah yeah. On Vancouver called it's called the Crow Highway. Yeah, 0:03:05.240 --> 0:03:08.320 hell yeah, because it's so massive and goes forever and 0:03:08.360 --> 0:03:09.120 ever and ever. 0:03:10.120 --> 0:03:10.760 To their roost. 0:03:11.280 --> 0:03:15.320 Brief story on crows and resistance A really incredible story 0:03:15.360 --> 0:03:19.880 in Vancouver when a park was a colonial person created 0:03:19.880 --> 0:03:23.160 a park in the downtown, which was like displaced a 0:03:23.240 --> 0:03:27.120 lot of Indigenous people in their homes and designed this 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:30.160 park that was filled with crows as well. They also 0:03:30.160 --> 0:03:33.400 brought in animals from Europe as well to make it pretty, 0:03:33.720 --> 0:03:37.040 and the crows made it really hard for these animals. 0:03:37.560 --> 0:03:42.040 And so the City of Vancouver for fifty years from 0:03:42.120 --> 0:03:47.640 nineteen hundred to nineteen fifty gave free range to the 0:03:47.760 --> 0:03:52.280 Vancouver Gun people to go into the park and shoot 0:03:52.280 --> 0:03:53.040 crows every day. 0:03:53.280 --> 0:03:54.040 Oh my god. 0:03:54.360 --> 0:03:58.520 And when I see like the amount of crows that 0:03:58.560 --> 0:04:02.680 are still alive, it's just some metaphor for Indigenous resilience, 0:04:02.840 --> 0:04:05.320 you know, Like it's just so powerful. So it's another 0:04:05.360 --> 0:04:08.560 reason why I'm like interested in and in terms of 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:09.480 where I was like. 0:04:09.560 --> 0:04:13.080 Living, as I been gathering images for our project that 0:04:13.160 --> 0:04:17.880 I've been specifically trying to find images of crows attacking 0:04:17.920 --> 0:04:21.360 people because I think that's good. So it's like, you know, 0:04:21.480 --> 0:04:23.599 the follow up to what you were saying, Carla, is 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:25.080 the crow's revenge. 0:04:25.680 --> 0:04:25.960 Yes. 0:04:27.240 --> 0:04:27.400 Yeah. 0:04:27.640 --> 0:04:29.200 One of the things that you know you kind of 0:04:29.240 --> 0:04:30.760 have to do here in Portland is you have to 0:04:30.839 --> 0:04:33.159 kind of like negotiate with the crows. You have to 0:04:33.240 --> 0:04:36.040 like you leave them like peace offerings and you sort 0:04:36.080 --> 0:04:38.640 of you know, when your friends come, you let you 0:04:38.680 --> 0:04:40.680 introduce them to the crows, or the crows know that 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:45.560 you're okay. It's very sweet shiny things. Yeah, we love 0:04:45.600 --> 0:04:48.920 a crow based society. And speaking of a crow based society, yeah, 0:04:49.000 --> 0:04:50.800 do you want to, I guess, give a brief sort 0:04:50.800 --> 0:04:54.320 of overview of what Cause is before we get sort 0:04:54.320 --> 0:04:54.960 of more into it. 0:04:55.560 --> 0:04:58.400 Yeah, I'm happy to take a spin at that as VICKI. 0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:00.680 By the way, Yeah, so cause of like I mean, 0:05:00.720 --> 0:05:03.880 it's an anarchist journal of arts and culture that is 0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:07.000 a collective of anarchist writers. It's also a Corvid appreciation 0:05:07.120 --> 0:05:09.440 working group. There's a lot of different acronyms for it. 0:05:09.880 --> 0:05:12.400 And what we are doing is we are bringing all 0:05:12.440 --> 0:05:15.600 for at first, just all four of our efforts together. 0:05:16.040 --> 0:05:18.560 So a lot of us work on separate podcasts. We 0:05:18.640 --> 0:05:21.520 have pedagological tasks, We have many activist projects that center 0:05:21.560 --> 0:05:24.440 around culture. You know, I have a newsletter, Surely has 0:05:24.480 --> 0:05:28.840 a Patreon, Kyla has a newsletter, Danny has has also 0:05:28.880 --> 0:05:30.640 has like an email list. There's just all these different 0:05:30.640 --> 0:05:34.360 projects and we realize that like for all of our 0:05:34.400 --> 0:05:37.600 talk about mutual aid and working collectively when it comes 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:42.040 to writing and creativity, the market has been so fractured 0:05:42.080 --> 0:05:45.040 and so alienated and sort of turned into like everyone 0:05:45.040 --> 0:05:47.480 has an individual newsletter that they're competing with one another, 0:05:47.680 --> 0:05:49.560 you know, even though they don't want to be like 0:05:49.600 --> 0:05:51.240 they want to be. But that's sort of ultimately what's 0:05:51.240 --> 0:05:53.920 happening is that there's limited sort of customers. And there's 0:05:53.920 --> 0:05:56.960 also this other trend going on right now of this 0:05:57.120 --> 0:06:00.240 really exciting kind of worker owned journals, a lot of 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:03.160 them local journalisms. There's some in New York and Chicago, 0:06:03.320 --> 0:06:05.680 and there's one in Ashville and all over the country 0:06:05.720 --> 0:06:08.280 as well as like on special topics like aftermath, which 0:06:08.320 --> 0:06:10.000 like does I think the other video games, and there's 0:06:10.000 --> 0:06:12.000 four or four media it is tech. There's just like 0:06:12.040 --> 0:06:14.400 all these different sort of sites doing this sort of thing, 0:06:14.600 --> 0:06:15.960 and I think in some ways all of us are 0:06:15.960 --> 0:06:18.880 sort of collectively reinventing the newspapers that have been sort 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:21.320 of stolen and destroyed by capital, you know. 0:06:21.480 --> 0:06:22.080 In a big way. 0:06:22.200 --> 0:06:22.839 Yeah. 0:06:22.920 --> 0:06:24.440 So there's sort of two goals that we have, and 0:06:24.480 --> 0:06:27.039 I think Carla Carla speaks really eloquently to some of this, 0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:31.239 but one of which is to make writing radical culture 0:06:31.279 --> 0:06:36.159 work beautiful, joyful, fun and also critical like movement work, 0:06:36.400 --> 0:06:38.920 to make it sustainable for us and for anyone else 0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:41.720 who wants to share in this project, who we can 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:44.560 sort of expand towards, but also to make it easier 0:06:44.560 --> 0:06:46.599 for people who are reading to have access to these things, 0:06:46.600 --> 0:06:48.720 like in one place, instead of having to, you know, 0:06:48.760 --> 0:06:50.960 decide who they care for and who they like in 0:06:51.040 --> 0:06:53.440 order to sort of, you know, do that mac of 0:06:53.480 --> 0:06:55.760 like who can I afford to subscribe to? Like I personally, 0:06:55.760 --> 0:06:57.080 I don't know if it's true for everyone else, but 0:06:57.240 --> 0:06:59.400 personally I usually have about two or three people I 0:06:59.400 --> 0:07:01.279 can afford to subscribe to a month, and I switch 0:07:01.279 --> 0:07:03.840 it out just like on a very arbitrary basis, you know, 0:07:03.920 --> 0:07:08.200 or something like that. That was very technical and financially focused. 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:10.880 But what we're really excited to do mostly is support 0:07:11.240 --> 0:07:13.600 each other's work, because I think we all really love 0:07:13.640 --> 0:07:15.480 and admire each other's work and have for a long time, 0:07:15.560 --> 0:07:18.400 and this is just this really exciting opportunity. Instead of 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:22.160 my writing just being for me, it's for Julie and 0:07:22.280 --> 0:07:24.560 Carla and Danino, and that just makes it feel more 0:07:24.560 --> 0:07:27.680 inspiring and exciting as well as a collective process. 0:07:28.120 --> 0:07:31.200 Yeah, I mean connected to the financial aspect. But I 0:07:31.240 --> 0:07:34.880 think when we are initially discussing this, the experience of 0:07:34.920 --> 0:07:38.239 being a writer is trying to find outlets for your writing. Yeah, 0:07:38.280 --> 0:07:40.080 and if you're trying to get paid for that, you 0:07:40.120 --> 0:07:43.200 have to sell it to people, right, And so it's 0:07:43.280 --> 0:07:45.360 very hard to get paid at all for writing, and 0:07:45.360 --> 0:07:48.880 it's very hard to place your writing in venues to 0:07:48.880 --> 0:07:51.760 publish it, especially if you're coming from an anarchist angle, 0:07:51.800 --> 0:07:54.680 because people do not really want to publish things that 0:07:54.760 --> 0:07:57.440 come to anarchist conclusions, Like they want you to do 0:07:57.520 --> 0:08:00.120 all the analysis and whatever, but they don't want you 0:08:00.200 --> 0:08:02.960 to think about like what an action is like. 0:08:03.520 --> 0:08:06.320 So like, you know, you could write for some of 0:08:06.360 --> 0:08:07.600 the lefty. 0:08:07.640 --> 0:08:12.280 So called lefty socialist whatever rags, but they don't. Yeah, 0:08:12.320 --> 0:08:15.280 they won't feature anarchists. They basically even just act as 0:08:15.280 --> 0:08:19.480 if anarchism doesn't exist, never exists, you know, never existed. 0:08:19.480 --> 0:08:20.800 They erase the whole history of it. 0:08:20.800 --> 0:08:23.640 The only serious kind of political forces some kind of 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:27.640 democratic socialism. So to us, we wanted to create a 0:08:27.680 --> 0:08:30.040 place where we can do the writing we want to 0:08:30.040 --> 0:08:32.760 do without having to make compromises in what we want 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:36.600 to say. Just to get published because that, yeah, just 0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:39.640 that game of like of shopping your stuff around is 0:08:39.840 --> 0:08:43.960 it's demeaning, It's totally time consuming. It distracts you from 0:08:44.000 --> 0:08:48.080 actually doing the work. So we were like, let's band 0:08:48.160 --> 0:08:51.959 together instead of each of us going off wasting our 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:53.880 time trying to write. 0:08:54.400 --> 0:08:56.280 Yeah, and I think one of the other issues with 0:08:56.360 --> 0:08:58.480 this too also like the pay is just so bad, 0:08:58.760 --> 0:09:02.560 like even though almost especially the leftiscroops like page is 0:09:02.600 --> 0:09:05.600 so rancid, and all of the combinations of those things 0:09:05.640 --> 0:09:08.679 make it really really hard to just sort of be 0:09:08.760 --> 0:09:12.800 an independent writer. And also, okay, jumping back a second, 0:09:12.800 --> 0:09:15.679 so they're raising anarchism exists. This is why. The one 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:17.640 that makes me always lose my mind is like I'm 0:09:17.640 --> 0:09:20.480 specifically gonna name Jocobin here because I don't like them. 0:09:20.559 --> 0:09:22.040 But like, one of the things that jack Wum will 0:09:22.040 --> 0:09:24.520 do is they'll be covering a strike that is organized 0:09:24.520 --> 0:09:27.360 by the IWW. It is an IWW union, that they 0:09:27.400 --> 0:09:29.880 will have pictures of the strike where there are a 0:09:29.880 --> 0:09:32.360 bunch of people holding IWW banners, and they will never 0:09:32.440 --> 0:09:34.880 mention that it was the IWW who organized the strike. 0:09:35.240 --> 0:09:38.960 So like, yeah, there is this real sort of conspiracy 0:09:39.000 --> 0:09:42.959 of silence, I guess about our politics and the stuff 0:09:42.960 --> 0:09:43.840 that we do in the world. 0:09:44.120 --> 0:09:47.040 It's so claring. Jacobin is definitely a big culprit. And 0:09:47.040 --> 0:09:50.080 then the podcast associated with the dig, like they will 0:09:50.080 --> 0:09:53.240 specifically will be talking about history where anarchists have been 0:09:54.200 --> 0:09:57.080 very involved, and then they just will not mention them. 0:09:57.120 --> 0:09:59.760 I'm like, and they sometimes there's really good history and 0:09:59.840 --> 0:10:02.960 now that podcast, but like this is an omission that 0:10:02.960 --> 0:10:04.440 they clearly are choosing. 0:10:05.000 --> 0:10:09.160 Yeah, And I think, you know, self organization is effectively 0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:12.000 the only way out of this because why you just 0:10:12.040 --> 0:10:13.880 sort of I don't know, have to deal with all 0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:16.240 of the sort of media gatekeepers like sitting there in 0:10:16.240 --> 0:10:20.160 front of you with a stick going no anarchism of balk. 0:10:19.920 --> 0:10:23.400 Yeah, and even the projects that have sustained, that have survived, 0:10:23.400 --> 0:10:26.360 which are all really awesome, you know, like and exciting, 0:10:26.679 --> 0:10:30.280 Like very few of them have offered real sustainability, like 0:10:30.360 --> 0:10:33.160 on a professional level, and like I've been publishing like 0:10:33.360 --> 0:10:36.600 quote unquote professionally for fifteen years and like I'm the 0:10:36.640 --> 0:10:39.600 like newest writer on the scene, like from our crew basically, 0:10:39.640 --> 0:10:43.000 like we're incredibly experienced, and all of us have books out, 0:10:43.040 --> 0:10:44.920 all of us have edited volumes all of us have 0:10:45.000 --> 0:10:47.520 like podcasts, and like are people who I like, really 0:10:47.520 --> 0:10:49.640 respect whose names I think are big and important in 0:10:50.000 --> 0:10:52.880 the world of theory and activism and like in the 0:10:53.160 --> 0:10:56.560 anglophone world especially, And none of us can sustain ourselves 0:10:56.600 --> 0:10:59.840 as writers as such because of the way that just 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:01.760 you know, both politically but also just like the way 0:11:01.800 --> 0:11:04.800 the market has come down. Yeah, and it just feels 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:07.240 like something we could apply our politics to solving as 0:11:07.240 --> 0:11:09.840 a workplace issue rather than just sort of as like 0:11:09.880 --> 0:11:12.520 a you know, are you committed enough to sacrifice all 0:11:12.559 --> 0:11:15.680 your time issue? And so hopefully like that will also 0:11:15.720 --> 0:11:19.800 function to make more work available to produce and to 0:11:20.240 --> 0:11:23.480 platform and to yeah, to to sort of work as 0:11:23.480 --> 0:11:24.720 an example simultaneously. 0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:28.240 Unfortunately, speaking of speaking of sustaining work as a platform, 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:30.960 unfortunately the way we are sustained here is with these ads. 0:11:31.120 --> 0:11:44.280 So hold on and we are back, And this, I 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:47.199 guess brings us to the kind of work that's happening here. 0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:50.400 And I was very excited because one of the things 0:11:50.480 --> 0:11:53.520 you all have done is an interview with Raouls of Becky, 0:11:53.679 --> 0:11:56.760 who is the author of like one of my favorite 0:11:56.800 --> 0:11:58.760 quotes of all time. I think I've said on this 0:11:58.800 --> 0:12:01.920 show like multiple times. I really ran into in a 0:12:02.240 --> 0:12:04.920 sort of completely unrelated book called Rhythms of the Patchacuti, 0:12:05.000 --> 0:12:07.000 which is about the sort of the water and gas 0:12:07.080 --> 0:12:09.120 wars in Bolivia. I talked about this book on the 0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:13.360 show like all the time. This quote goes roughly like 0:12:13.440 --> 0:12:16.760 struggle illuminates the divisions of a society like lightning illuminates 0:12:16.800 --> 0:12:18.440 the sky. And I love it. It's like it's like 0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:20.720 it's the best explanation of what happened during twenty twenty 0:12:20.760 --> 0:12:22.320 that I've ever seen. And this is sort of what's 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:26.200 happening like right now too. Is like you have these 0:12:26.240 --> 0:12:29.440 sort of flashpoint moments where where you know, suddenly like 0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:32.960 all of how society works very briefly becomes visible and 0:12:33.000 --> 0:12:35.079 you have this sort of moment when you're illuminated by 0:12:35.120 --> 0:12:37.079 it to act. And so I'm I don't know, I'm 0:12:37.120 --> 0:12:41.199 really excited that y'all are talking to him, And yeah, 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:43.440 because you talked at a bit more about what's been 0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:44.560 going on and what's to come. 0:12:45.200 --> 0:12:46.080 I'm sure. Thanks. 0:12:46.240 --> 0:12:49.160 That was a highlight definitely this year was talking to 0:12:49.280 --> 0:12:52.800 Raoul obviously, you know a podcastco We talked for quite 0:12:52.800 --> 0:12:56.680 a bit longer than what was on the show, and I. 0:12:56.600 --> 0:12:59.439 Think like reading his newest book that was. 0:12:59.360 --> 0:13:03.480 Translated and then doing that show with him, it was 0:13:03.640 --> 0:13:07.520 completely connected to me, like reaching out to Suley about 0:13:08.000 --> 0:13:11.480 doing Call, because there is a way that we that 0:13:11.559 --> 0:13:15.120 he talked about this whole idea of disappearing symmetries that 0:13:15.120 --> 0:13:18.320 those Bapatistas are working on, like this idea of really 0:13:18.400 --> 0:13:23.160 truly looking at all the fault lines within horizontality or 0:13:23.160 --> 0:13:26.199 automy that we don't actually enact in our day to 0:13:26.280 --> 0:13:29.200 day lives. And so I really started to reflect on 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:32.880 my own life that way, and not so much Vicky 0:13:33.040 --> 0:13:35.520 at this point yet, but like Suley and Danny, both 0:13:35.520 --> 0:13:38.160 of them, like we just were blurbing each other's books 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:42.400 and like supporting each other, connecting to publishers or trying 0:13:42.400 --> 0:13:46.319 to connect each other to publishers, and just like trying 0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:49.440 to disrupt a competitive nature that's running underneath even when 0:13:49.480 --> 0:13:52.439 we're all really committed to not being competitive, but there's 0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:55.960 it is, like there's a you know. So all is 0:13:56.000 --> 0:13:59.080 to say that for me, like collaboration is at the 0:13:59.120 --> 0:14:02.440 heart of we're doing here in a deep, deep way, 0:14:02.559 --> 0:14:07.080 and for me, collaboration just means that when something is 0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:10.640 created that wouldn't be created otherwise without this collaboration. So 0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:13.360 I'm just really excited to see what sparks and comes 0:14:13.440 --> 0:14:16.520 up individually, but also like with each other and even 0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:19.800 like through collaborations like the show with Raoul and like 0:14:19.880 --> 0:14:25.080 how that spreads seeds and ideas. Yeah, So like for myself, 0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:28.600 I'm going to definitely focus on collaboration in a deep way. 0:14:28.640 --> 0:14:30.840 I don't think I'll write very much solo stuff for 0:14:30.920 --> 0:14:33.960 the for call. I think it will always be in 0:14:34.040 --> 0:14:38.040 conversation with others and just trying to double down on 0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:43.440 on doing it together instead of individual pursuits. 0:14:43.840 --> 0:14:45.560 Yeah, and that's something I think this is useful for 0:14:45.600 --> 0:14:47.880 everyone listening to this, is that, like it's a lot 0:14:47.920 --> 0:14:51.840 easier to develop better ideas, and you know, it makes 0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:55.040 your writing more clear. It makes the way that you, you know, 0:14:55.080 --> 0:14:56.520 just the way you act in the world a lot 0:14:56.600 --> 0:14:59.160 more clear when you're working with other people and it's 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:01.040 you know, it's it's it's the process by which the 0:15:01.040 --> 0:15:02.920 best stuff gets created. 0:15:03.640 --> 0:15:05.600 Yeah, I mean I think that's really like true. And 0:15:05.640 --> 0:15:08.640 I think like I have for a long time now 0:15:08.840 --> 0:15:11.600 sort of accepted that writing is never going to support 0:15:11.680 --> 0:15:14.160 or sustain me and all I needed was a push 0:15:14.240 --> 0:15:15.880 from a few other people to be like, wait, what 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:18.000 if we like actually tried to do it collectively, to 0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:20.120 be like, oh yeah, like I could actually try that, 0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:21.760 Like I don't have to just accept that, like I'll 0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:25.360 always have like a full time job plus whatever writing, 0:15:25.480 --> 0:15:27.640 like in whatever hours I can steal, you know, and like, 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:31.480 you know, with great difficulty put out some writing sometimes 0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:33.200 and then always feel guilty when I'm not putting out 0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:36.040 enough to like sustain myself. Like that whole process. I 0:15:36.040 --> 0:15:38.440 think a lot of creatives right now know that struggle, 0:15:38.480 --> 0:15:41.840 you know, of having gigs and work and lots of 0:15:41.840 --> 0:15:44.920 other important things to do and and you know, sort 0:15:44.960 --> 0:15:46.960 of accepting that that's the conditions. And I think, like, 0:15:47.440 --> 0:15:49.680 what's so inspiring about, you know, because Carla and and 0:15:49.720 --> 0:15:51.600 as Carlo was just mentioning, they sort of brought I'm 0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:53.200 the last one on the on the crew, and I 0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:55.400 was sort of the closer, you know or whatever. But 0:15:55.440 --> 0:15:58.000 I think, like, I don't know what that means genuinely, 0:15:58.680 --> 0:16:01.680 but but I was broughtup. And I think just having 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:04.920 them propose it already just as a project that we've 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:06.600 been thinking of, has like changed the way I've been 0:16:06.640 --> 0:16:09.440 thinking about what is possible with the writing I'm already doing. 0:16:10.000 --> 0:16:11.840 And then so I think, like just to underline that 0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:15.040 point and go on and on, collaborations really really like 0:16:15.360 --> 0:16:19.040 important and supporting one another is so is so powerful. 0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:22.280 Yeah, when carl and I initially had like the seed 0:16:22.360 --> 0:16:27.400 conversation of this, like Carla said something about collectivizing as writers, 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:30.200 like we talk about it with all these other other 0:16:30.360 --> 0:16:34.240 workplaces and industries and whatever, and it was like like 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:36.360 when when she said that, I was like, oh, yeah, 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:38.920 like that makes so much sense that we're off here 0:16:39.040 --> 0:16:42.240 doing our own thing. And as Vicky said, you do 0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:45.640 it sort of with the knowledge that it's not sustainable. 0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:47.760 You steal your time to do it. 0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:48.800 Right, Even the. 0:16:48.800 --> 0:16:52.600 Supposed jobs that are there to enable you to write 0:16:53.280 --> 0:16:55.840 actually make you do all this other work. So like 0:16:56.200 --> 0:17:00.400 the time for writing is always like endlessly deferred. And 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:02.400 you know, we have that image also, like of the 0:17:02.440 --> 0:17:04.720 patron or something, or like Virginia Woolf says, you need 0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:07.159 money enough to have a room of one's own. But 0:17:07.480 --> 0:17:11.800 if we put ourselves together in this way, then we 0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:14.200 are trying to, yeah, I don't know, create more time 0:17:14.240 --> 0:17:16.439 for ourselves to write. And then like going back to 0:17:16.480 --> 0:17:20.120 something Vicky said earlier about like reinventing the newspaper, there 0:17:20.240 --> 0:17:23.280 was a time in anarchism where like I think we 0:17:23.359 --> 0:17:26.080 talked about this amongst ourselves, like where like every block 0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:29.480 had like a Yiddish anarchist newspaper, right. It wasn't like, yeah, 0:17:29.520 --> 0:17:32.400 you had one newspaper telling all the anarchists what to think. 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:34.360 It was like it was hyper local in a way, 0:17:34.400 --> 0:17:37.280 and there was so many voices. And so I think 0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:39.040 that's another thing that we want to do, is like 0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:42.520 help for that proliferation, because in the sort of spirit 0:17:42.560 --> 0:17:45.520 of collaboration, like the reason to write as an anarchist 0:17:45.560 --> 0:17:48.720 for me is to have conversations to produce the possibility 0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:52.040 for people to like receive it and then contact me 0:17:52.119 --> 0:17:54.520 into and I get into conversations with people and learn 0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:55.240 things from them. 0:17:55.640 --> 0:17:57.639 Yeah, I think it's an angle there too, where like 0:17:58.400 --> 0:18:00.439 I think we're kind of okay, So I was a 0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:03.520 tiny baby when all this was happening, So I'm I'm 0:18:03.520 --> 0:18:05.320 gonna have to rely on y'all for this. But like 0:18:05.600 --> 0:18:07.320 you know, one of the things I get sort of 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:11.240 reading the record about like the older anarchist movement, I 0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:13.680 mean When I say older, I mean like like anti 0:18:13.720 --> 0:18:16.399 anti globalization era stuff was like there seems like there 0:18:16.400 --> 0:18:18.240 was a lot more of a kind of like anarchist 0:18:18.320 --> 0:18:18.879 media sphere. 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:21.720 Are you talking about like the late nineties. 0:18:21.400 --> 0:18:23.440 Yeah, like like like to the two thousands, to. 0:18:23.400 --> 0:18:25.400 Some extent like a Battle Seattle. 0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:28.680 Yeah yeah, I mean that was like the you know, 0:18:29.240 --> 0:18:33.119 the birth of anarchy again, right, yeah, I was definitely around. 0:18:33.560 --> 0:18:38.160 I'm in my late fifties, but the same struggle was there, 0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:42.480 like that that we're swimming in liberalism and like that 0:18:42.560 --> 0:18:47.159 socialist worker like capturing of the movement was just as 0:18:47.240 --> 0:18:49.240 powerful then, and it was you saw it at all 0:18:49.280 --> 0:18:53.000 the rallies and stuff, and you know, immediately anarchism was 0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:57.439 marginalized and pushed off as irrelevant and not practical for 0:18:57.480 --> 0:19:00.320 the revolution. And this is why it's clinch off and 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:03.639 all these kind of sectarian movements in the That's my 0:19:03.760 --> 0:19:04.840 take anyway. 0:19:04.640 --> 0:19:07.280 I think that no, it makes sense. It makes sense. 0:19:07.520 --> 0:19:10.080 I mean I've hashed this out with so many older 0:19:10.119 --> 0:19:12.800 anarchists that I was part of Institute for Anarchist Studies, 0:19:12.880 --> 0:19:15.720 Like we talked about this a lot phenomena with Scott 0:19:15.720 --> 0:19:18.280 Crow and you can just see the direct line of 0:19:18.359 --> 0:19:22.560 where it went into sectarianism from this sort of rebirth. 0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:24.800 Sorry I went off on a different thing instead of 0:19:24.840 --> 0:19:25.879 like journals and media. 0:19:25.920 --> 0:19:28.400