1 00:00:02,360 --> 00:00:05,440 Speaker 1: I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing 2 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 1: from My Heart Radio. My friend Lorne Michael's told me 3 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 1: that back in the nineteen seventies when he launched Saturday 4 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 1: Night Live, there were only a handful of comedy clubs 5 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 1: in the United States. Today there are hundreds of comedy clubs, 6 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:25,919 Speaker 1: and Americans have available to them an ocean of sitcom's, 7 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:31,320 Speaker 1: late night talk shows and streaming comedy specials. To distinguish 8 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 1: yourself in that world of comedy is a very difficult 9 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:39,239 Speaker 1: thing to do. My guest today has succeeded at just that. 10 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 1: Actor writer comedian Patton Oswald has appeared in many sitcoms, 11 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 1: including The King of Queens, ap Bio, The Goldberg's Veep, Reno, 12 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 1: Parks and Wreck, and Brooklyn Nine. He's written two books, 13 00:00:55,960 --> 00:01:00,920 Speaker 1: including a memoir, Silver Screen Fiend, about his of of movies, 14 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 1: and he does a lot of voiceover work, from My 15 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 1: Little Pony and Word Girl to Archer and bow Jack, Horsemen, and, 16 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 1: perhaps most memorably, as Remy in Pixar's Rattatui. First of all, 17 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:22,680 Speaker 1: I'm a rat, which means life is hard. A second, 18 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:30,040 Speaker 1: I have a highly developed sense of taste and smell flour, eggs, sugar, 19 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 1: vanilla bean, oh Small Twisdom. Patton Oswald has released three 20 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:41,559 Speaker 1: Netflix comedy specials, including last year's I Love Everything, where 21 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 1: he riffs on parenting, home ownership, and turning fifty. If 22 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 1: you were to fly a helicopter low over the earth, 23 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 1: you know what you would see. You'd see people in 24 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 1: their twenties gobbling drugs, eating delicious food, having sex, People 25 00:01:57,440 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 1: in their thirties with actual jobs making the world run, 26 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 1: People in their forties trying to fund the twenty year olds, 27 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 1: and then us, the gentle surrendered fifty year olds. We've 28 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 1: got our earbuds in listening to podcasts what You're done 29 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 1: by twenty year olds that nobody wants to fuck. In 30 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 1: April two thousand sixteen, Patton Oswald suffered a great loss 31 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 1: the sudden death of his first wife, true crime writer 32 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:37,919 Speaker 1: Michelle McNamara. She was forty six. She left behind patent 33 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:42,519 Speaker 1: and there then seven year old daughter Alice. My absolute 34 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 1: first thought was, why isn't it me? She should be here. 35 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 1: She's doing, in my opinion, the more important work and 36 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 1: has the better bond with and it would be a 37 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 1: better example for to raise our daughter with not not 38 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 1: to I don't believe in you know, um false modesty. 39 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 1: But if you're going to choose a person to emulate you, 40 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 1: oh yeah, have do do Michelle more than yeah? Exactly mother. 41 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:11,679 Speaker 1: You can't replace them right now? No, No, what was 42 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 1: that like for you in those early stages of managing that, 43 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:19,840 Speaker 1: not just your grief but your single parenthood you you know, 44 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 1: I didn't think about this aspect of a part of 45 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 1: being a dad. At least part of my process is 46 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 1: going off and having some solitude to be with my 47 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 1: thoughts and then be there because I was hardwired with 48 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 1: that old patriarchal model of I'm the one who goes 49 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 1: out into the wild and gathers up the firewood and 50 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 1: that kills the meat and brings it all back, and 51 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 1: then when I'm home I relaxed while they all prepare us. 52 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 1: And then I had to do I had to still 53 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 1: go out and get the sustenance, but then be there 54 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 1: and be the parents. So there was about a year 55 00:03:55,960 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 1: of kind of adjusting two. I very early on stop 56 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 1: judging myself for maybe not being the most dynamic, but 57 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 1: I was going I'm here, though I'm physically here, when 58 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 1: I'm home and she's home. I'm here, and I just 59 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 1: and you find out that if you want to, you 60 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 1: can adjust your schedule to go, Okay, well, she's in 61 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 1: school for these hours, so this is when I will 62 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 1: do work, and this is when I will get stuff 63 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:21,919 Speaker 1: done in the minute she's done work has got to 64 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 1: know that I'm not available now and I want to 65 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 1: go pick her up at school and come home with 66 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 1: her and just be with her. And that was that 67 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:29,920 Speaker 1: was how it was for a while. That's where were 68 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: That's where we're recording at this time. Because my two 69 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:36,279 Speaker 1: youngest boys, not the baby, but the two middle boys, 70 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:38,479 Speaker 1: they take a nap, right people, I mean, when are 71 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:41,040 Speaker 1: we recording the podcast? I go one o'clock, it's naptime. 72 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:43,160 Speaker 1: And when they when they nap, Yeah, the only time 73 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:47,599 Speaker 1: the house is quiet enough to record. Yeah, exactly a 74 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 1: lot of times, what what you learn is when my 75 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:52,160 Speaker 1: daughter was talking to me, I had to get over 76 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 1: my impulse to go, well, what is the action thing 77 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 1: we can do to solve this. A lot of times 78 00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: she wasn't looking for the action solutions. She just let's 79 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 1: just talk this out and look at it. We don't 80 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 1: need a solution right now. I just want someone to 81 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:08,360 Speaker 1: hear me and then to say back, oh, yeah, that 82 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 1: is really bad and I don't actually have an answer 83 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:13,680 Speaker 1: right now. Like that, in a weird way, that was 84 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:18,840 Speaker 1: more reassuring, because coming back with an immediate action solution 85 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 1: almost feels to that person, especially to my daughter. Sometimes 86 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:25,119 Speaker 1: I think it felt like I don't think he really 87 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 1: was listening to me. I think he just wanted to 88 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:30,599 Speaker 1: jump to the solution. And it seems like men want 89 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 1: to jump right to the solution, and women are so 90 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 1: much more patient and and confident in going let we 91 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:40,599 Speaker 1: don't need to have us let's just keep let's look 92 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:44,840 Speaker 1: at this exactly, you know, and menally, no, we solve 93 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 1: it right now. But but there's and nothing makes a 94 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:53,039 Speaker 1: man panic more than you don't have the answer, where 95 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:55,680 Speaker 1: there's not only do not have an answer, but when 96 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 1: you realize the answer is there is not an immediate solution. 97 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:03,159 Speaker 1: Like there's friend drama um at school and I and 98 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 1: I had to go I guess you have to go 99 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:09,920 Speaker 1: back tomorrow and talk to her, or like like there 100 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:12,719 Speaker 1: wasn't this specific I wanted to do that, like the 101 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 1: Good Fellas thing of like if someone was being mean 102 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 1: to her at school, like grab her and put her 103 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 1: head in a pizza of and go. You know that's 104 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:22,559 Speaker 1: not doesn't work that way. When I say to my daughters, 105 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't say this, but she'll be like, 106 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 1: she'll be crying and should be like, you know, Amanda 107 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 1: would mean to me it was mean to be on 108 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 1: a zoom call like, and my wife is so the 109 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 1: process and the you know, and I'm like, why don't 110 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 1: you just tell Amanda to go fund herself? You know, 111 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 1: like maybe I should go talk to a man. You know, 112 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 1: you don't need to go into the school angry sixth 113 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 1: year old man yelling at an eight year old your 114 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 1: your Your wife was a writer her entire career. She was, yeah, 115 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 1: I mean she started as a writer in college. She 116 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 1: taught writing at Michigan and and started it was weird. 117 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 1: She started writing TV shows and screenplays in Hollywood. They 118 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 1: were comedies, but they were crime adjacent. And then as 119 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 1: she wrote them, she even, if you're writing a comedy 120 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 1: about a crime, you have to at least know the 121 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 1: crime has got to make sense or it doesn't. You know, 122 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 1: the comedy falls apart. So in researching the crime aspects 123 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 1: of it, she started realizing oh no, I really like 124 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 1: the crime way better. I don't want to write comedy. 125 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 1: I want actually, I don't want to write Springtime for Dahmer, 126 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:32,679 Speaker 1: you know, I don't want none of that for me. Yeah. 127 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 1: So she worked as an assistant for a private eye 128 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 1: for a while, like, did cases with him, and and 129 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 1: just that became her thing. And then she when we 130 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 1: got together, you know, she would tell me that just 131 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: the Labrinthian details of these cases that she would just 132 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 1: research online. And I was like, why don't you just 133 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 1: because I had a web master, I had a web 134 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 1: page for my shows. I'm like, I'll just pay me 135 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 1: a little lecture. Let's get do you have a website? 136 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 1: Just write this stuff out. And she started writing it, 137 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 1: and she was starting to put these crimes together just 138 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: on This is like in the you know, the early 139 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 1: stages of the internet, and now there's a million crime 140 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 1: blogs and crime podcasts. Um. She was one of the 141 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:12,640 Speaker 1: first that was doing it and was getting calls. She 142 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 1: got a call from Dateline. They hired her as a 143 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 1: consultant because she had put together a case they weren't 144 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 1: able to crack. And the reason they weren't able to 145 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 1: crack it was because when they would go to the 146 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 1: family and talk to him, it's like, oh, this is 147 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: the news. They would clam up. But some girl on 148 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 1: the internet, yeah I'll say anything that who cares? And 149 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 1: they told her everything. It was amazing. So the documentary, 150 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 1: which is the same name as the that's a six 151 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:38,680 Speaker 1: part documentary. It's an on HBO. Yes, I'll Be Gone 152 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 1: in the Dark. It's yeah, they all six episodes are 153 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:43,719 Speaker 1: out there now. Oh my god. And obviously did you 154 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 1: did you have any involvement with that at all? Were you? 155 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:49,679 Speaker 1: I you know, it's a documentary about an extraordinary woman 156 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:52,680 Speaker 1: that was made by an extraordinary woman. I love Liz 157 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 1: Garbas Liz Garbage, Oh my god, woman and so prolific. 158 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 1: I mean, she did I'll Be Gone in the Dark, 159 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 1: then did all In Then now she's like she just 160 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 1: is able to capture the essence and the absolute right 161 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 1: angle of attack for these stories. It's incredible. It's as 162 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 1: much a tribute to Liz and her crew as it 163 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 1: is to Michelle and the people around her. And again, 164 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:24,199 Speaker 1: just like I was with Michelle, I'm just the mediator. 165 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 1: I guess that the one thing I can give myself 166 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:27,960 Speaker 1: credit for was knowing when to step the hell back 167 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 1: and let people do their work. And both times I 168 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 1: had the wherewithal to do that, Thank God. You know, 169 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:37,600 Speaker 1: for me as a kid, TV was something that you. 170 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm a bit older than you, and TV 171 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:41,680 Speaker 1: was something that you sat down and you did what 172 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 1: I called I This might not be the most apt phrase, 173 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 1: but you would do back then in the sixties and seventies, 174 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 1: when I referred to as I are vedic listening, you know, 175 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:54,680 Speaker 1: you did the most intense listening known to man. You'd 176 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 1: watch one episode of a show or a movie and 177 00:09:56,800 --> 00:10:00,199 Speaker 1: you remember every line because you literally got into a 178 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 1: mirrorlogical electromagnetic field with the TV and it was going 179 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:07,680 Speaker 1: into your brain and being chiseled into your brain. And 180 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 1: I remembered all the words to the show watching it 181 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 1: one time, because that's all you had. There was no VCR, 182 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 1: it wasn't coming back nothing. You watched it then and 183 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 1: that was it. So I would watch Herman Munster, I 184 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:23,439 Speaker 1: watched Gilligan's Island, f Troop. I watched all the TV 185 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:29,080 Speaker 1: from when I was a kid. Family Affair. It's weird 186 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 1: you you just mentioned the air vetic listening for shows 187 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:35,560 Speaker 1: like Family Affair and Bewitched and and igree Ma Genie 188 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:39,239 Speaker 1: and stuff like that. Do you think that that informed 189 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 1: your characterization of Jack Donneghee on thirty Rock only because 190 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 1: now that I'm thinking about it, he was an evangelical 191 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 1: salesman for that kind of sitcom hypnotism because he didn't 192 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 1: give a crap about the content of the shows. He 193 00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 1: loved the fact that it got people into a state 194 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 1: where he could sell ducts, and it was why he 195 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 1: was so good at mimicking those rhythms on other people. 196 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:08,319 Speaker 1: Was that like a subconscious thing that got drilled into 197 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,679 Speaker 1: your brain and you didn't realize you had it? Probably subconscious, Yeah, 198 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:14,480 Speaker 1: because you've done a lot of very like rough You 199 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 1: know that the mammt the you know, Miami Blue is 200 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:21,200 Speaker 1: way more naturalistic stuff, and you very easily fell into 201 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:24,720 Speaker 1: those kind of inhuman rhythms that you realize when you 202 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 1: listen to it. But that is kind of how we 203 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 1: talk because we've been programmed by the TV. It's really 204 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 1: weird that that happened a your vedic listening. What was 205 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 1: that background for you grew up where I grew up 206 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:46,160 Speaker 1: in the very very bland suburbs of northern Virginia, Sterling Virginia. 207 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:48,680 Speaker 1: Was your dad in the government, Yeah, he was. My 208 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 1: dad was a marine for twenty years and then he 209 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 1: retired and then he worked at USA today at Genet 210 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:59,200 Speaker 1: and built all their computer systems. So it was he 211 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:01,680 Speaker 1: was a tech guy out Silver Spring. And I remember 212 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 1: him saying he would talk vaguely because he couldn't even 213 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: conceive of it. But he's like, it's all gonna be 214 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 1: on a computer, like everything, Like I had a manual 215 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 1: typewriter and I wanted an electric And he said, just 216 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 1: why don't you just wait? In five years, it's all 217 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:18,840 Speaker 1: gonna there won't be any typewriters. There won't like, there 218 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 1: won't be any of that. Just but he couldn't articulate 219 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 1: it enough. He didn't know exactly what was coming. But 220 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:25,719 Speaker 1: he had an inkland because he saw what was going on, 221 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 1: you know, with Business Defense Department here. What did your 222 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 1: mom do? My mom was a legal secretary in Vienna. 223 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:37,199 Speaker 1: It was all people the suburbs where I grew up. 224 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:40,720 Speaker 1: It's all around four and everyone went into the city 225 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:42,960 Speaker 1: and made money and then came to the suburbs. When 226 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 1: you're a child, it's the funny in your household and 227 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:49,840 Speaker 1: everybody's going get up there, Patton. That is so funny? 228 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 1: Are you like the performing the family I had? I mean, 229 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 1: I was funny in my family, but I was also 230 00:12:56,640 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: in you know that the term the class clown, that's 231 00:12:59,880 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 1: actually a false term. There's a clown click in every 232 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 1: high school. It's not. There's never just one. There's a 233 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:08,200 Speaker 1: group of people, boys and girls who were super into comedy. 234 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:10,840 Speaker 1: And that was my click. So then, of course in 235 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 1: my home, you know, I could lift more than everyone 236 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 1: else because I was hanging out all day with these 237 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 1: comedy nerds. But then I would come home and my 238 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:20,760 Speaker 1: dad was you know, he introduced me very early on 239 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:24,680 Speaker 1: to like Jonathan Winters uh and the mother's brothers and 240 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:27,960 Speaker 1: stuff like that, and then that led me surreptitiously to 241 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:31,720 Speaker 1: Richard Pryor and then, weirdly enough to Steve Martin, who 242 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 1: Steve Martin was my gateway to Monty Python because I 243 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:37,880 Speaker 1: heard Monty Python before Steve Martin. I didn't get it. 244 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:40,280 Speaker 1: I thought it was stupid. Then I heard Steve Martin 245 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 1: went oh, I get what they were doing. And then 246 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 1: that led me back into it. And then this whole 247 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:46,400 Speaker 1: world like kind of opened up. It was great where 248 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 1: you go to college. I went to William and Mary. 249 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 1: I went there to study writing. And when I went 250 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:53,360 Speaker 1: to William and Mary, this is in the late eighties, 251 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:55,960 Speaker 1: early nineties. They they had a theater department, but they 252 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 1: really didn't have like a film society or any kind 253 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 1: of like stay up. They had a couple of improv 254 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 1: groups and stuff like that. And then now apparently it's 255 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:07,480 Speaker 1: just it's even more exploded. You know. At the time, 256 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:10,960 Speaker 1: I think William Mary was more of a feeder school 257 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 1: for like lawyers, and it was it was that kind 258 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 1: of thing. They weren't really that focused on the arts. 259 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 1: They majors exactly. Yeah. I remember I was having problems 260 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 1: with my senior because I had taken too many courses 261 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 1: in my major and I didn't have enough credits to 262 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 1: graduate because I took too many English courses and I 263 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 1: didn't understand that I was supposed to take some psychology. 264 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 1: Took a lot of geology and psychology too. But I 265 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 1: remember I had to petition the committee on degrees and 266 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 1: and asked them to wave it was just like nine 267 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 1: credits that I was shy, and I was talking to 268 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 1: my counsel and I was like, look, I really need 269 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 1: to graduate like, and he was like, you actually don't 270 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 1: need to. You can just do a whole other year. 271 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 1: It's great. You do a whole other year as a 272 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 1: senior and you only got to take nine credits, will 273 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:57,960 Speaker 1: be the best year of your life. And I'm like, no, 274 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 1: you don't understand. Like I have jobs lined because starting 275 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 1: stopping here, I started actually getting work as a comedian. 276 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 1: So I'm like, by the time when I was a senior, 277 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 1: I have jobs lined up. School was in the way. Yeah, 278 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 1: And and then he was like, oh, what firm, Like 279 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 1: what firm are you with? Like he in his mind 280 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:13,960 Speaker 1: I had signed with it. I'm like, oh no, I'm 281 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: doing Charlie Goodnights in um North Carolina. I'm doing their Garvins, 282 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: I'm doing the Comedy Caravan, like I had all these 283 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 1: gigs lined up. And then he and then he said, 284 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 1: I don't think William and Marian wants to be known 285 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 1: for producing comedians like like as a like kind of 286 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 1: And then I went okay, and then I just like 287 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 1: I just petitioned so hard and they went fine, just 288 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 1: get out and they gave me my diploma. But I 289 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 1: was like ah, and and and then like they William 290 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 1: and Mary Produced, Michelle Wolf and John Stewart. For God's sakes, 291 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:50,240 Speaker 1: they should be proud of that. Comedian Patton Oswald. I'm 292 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. If 293 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 1: you like conversations with comedians who can also act, check 294 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 1: out our archives and my conversation with Kristen Wigg, who 295 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 1: credits her college acting teacher and helping her overcome her 296 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 1: performance anxiety. It was literally acting one on one that 297 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 1: was one class one class, and I was terrified to 298 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: take it. But something about this class we learned about 299 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 1: improv and my teacher was really supportive and at the 300 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 1: end of the class he was just like, have you 301 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 1: ever considered doing this? And I was like, oh, yeah, 302 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 1: right was your teacher? Was my teacher? Yeah? Here more 303 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,960 Speaker 1: of my conversation with Kristen Wigg at Here's the Thing 304 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 1: dot org. After the break, I talked to Patton Oswald 305 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 1: about his move to San Francisco in the early nine 306 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:45,480 Speaker 1: nineties and whyatt prompted him to tear up his previous 307 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:56,640 Speaker 1: material and start all over. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're 308 00:16:56,680 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 1: listening to Here's the Thing from My Heart Radio. Patton 309 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:03,200 Speaker 1: Oswald was a fan of stand up as a kid, 310 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 1: but he didn't try his hand at it until college. 311 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:10,879 Speaker 1: It was between junior and sophomore year of college. That 312 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 1: was that somewhere where I'm like, oh, I better actually 313 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 1: figure out what I'm gonna do, and I because I 314 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:17,200 Speaker 1: couldn't really And that was something I tried all these 315 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:20,359 Speaker 1: different jobs. I started training to be a paralegal. I 316 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:23,399 Speaker 1: was also working as a party DJ. I was writing 317 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:26,160 Speaker 1: sports for a local paper under a pseudonym, just like, 318 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:28,160 Speaker 1: what's one of these things is gonna stick? And then 319 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 1: I one evening, I went, because I always loved comedy, 320 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:32,879 Speaker 1: went I'll do an open mic and I looked in 321 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:34,920 Speaker 1: the paper. There was an open mics place called Garvin's. 322 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 1: And I went to Garvin's Comedy club that was in 323 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 1: d C on L Street between thirteen and fourteen Street, 324 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 1: very super sketchy area. I went on. I went out 325 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:49,160 Speaker 1: and I went on stage. It did not go well, 326 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 1: but one thing that I said got like a half 327 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:55,680 Speaker 1: got that comedian laugh from like that kind of ah 328 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:58,640 Speaker 1: like that. Also, my first night on stage was also 329 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:02,359 Speaker 1: Dave Chappelle's first night on age. He was fourteen years 330 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:05,359 Speaker 1: old and he when he went on. It looked like 331 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:08,200 Speaker 1: he'd been doing it for thirty years. He was amazing. 332 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:11,719 Speaker 1: He just like having my god and and I I 333 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:15,520 Speaker 1: was nineteen and it but the one I really loved. 334 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:19,120 Speaker 1: I loved sitting and watching all the comedians hanging out 335 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:22,679 Speaker 1: and riffing with each other and building jokes at a 336 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:26,080 Speaker 1: thin air. And I realized, even though there's no immediate 337 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 1: reward here for me, I want this life. My roommate 338 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:33,679 Speaker 1: in college as a comedian named Gary Laser, who I was, 339 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 1: you know, Gary Laser was my my and then he 340 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 1: and I were roommates. We got in an apartment together 341 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 1: for a couple of years, lived at him for a 342 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:42,119 Speaker 1: couple of years. We have Gary was my roommate off 343 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 1: and on for like four or five years. And Garrett 344 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 1: I would go to the clubs with him, to the 345 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:50,160 Speaker 1: Good Times on thirty on thirty of them third or whatever. 346 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 1: The ben atar was discovered. We got and we go 347 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:57,080 Speaker 1: to these different clubs with him and his friends and 348 00:18:57,080 --> 00:18:59,240 Speaker 1: they don't get up there and perform. And I remember, 349 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 1: you know, it was like there's no place else I'd 350 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 1: rather be, you know, these guys, Gary Leason and going. 351 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:05,919 Speaker 1: I was married to my first wife, yeah. We were 352 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:08,120 Speaker 1: together for three years, and that three years went by 353 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:16,000 Speaker 1: just like many had so many materials. Material I still 354 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:19,720 Speaker 1: remember his routine and I loved him. And then I 355 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:21,320 Speaker 1: go and do what I'm doing, and when I come 356 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:23,879 Speaker 1: back and do thirty Rock, it's like I'm around those 357 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:27,399 Speaker 1: people again, where like on my best day, I'm not 358 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 1: as funny as them on their worst day. You know, 359 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:33,639 Speaker 1: Tina Carlock call them they're so in terms of writing. 360 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:37,880 Speaker 1: You're not a comedian, you know, they're just so blindingly funny. 361 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:41,320 Speaker 1: And for you, did you go through a period where 362 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:44,119 Speaker 1: you're like you're honing, you're working. You said that the 363 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:47,400 Speaker 1: thing went so and at what point, you know, you're 364 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:49,840 Speaker 1: here at Garvin's and d C. At what point do 365 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 1: you sit there and go I think I got this, 366 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 1: I think that's going well. I really didn't. He Here's 367 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:57,720 Speaker 1: it was weird. I felt like one of the things 368 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:00,399 Speaker 1: I like was I'm sitting at the so first of all, 369 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 1: this material, I'm not hearing joke. Second hand, I'm here 370 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:07,119 Speaker 1: where they're being created, so I'm upstream. I'm one of 371 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:09,720 Speaker 1: the people sending it down into the you know culture, 372 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:12,760 Speaker 1: which that was also really exciting, but very early on 373 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:15,880 Speaker 1: I learned it's weird how you talked about the air 374 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 1: of atic listening with with TV. I kind of had 375 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:22,000 Speaker 1: that with comedy in that I learned the rhythms very 376 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:25,440 Speaker 1: early on, and I could get away with very very 377 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 1: mediocre material. But because I had the rhythms, and because 378 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,359 Speaker 1: there was this comedy boom, you could kind of go 379 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 1: up and talk in those rhythms and people would just 380 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:36,200 Speaker 1: kind of go, okay, this is comedy. And then as 381 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:39,840 Speaker 1: I was doing it, I started getting good in that 382 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 1: I was getting a lot of work. Then I remember 383 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 1: very very specifically, I moved to San Francisco, and this 384 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:49,879 Speaker 1: is when the comedy boom was starting to collapse and 385 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:51,399 Speaker 1: all the clubs were closing, and I went to the 386 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 1: Holy City Zoo. I'm the new kid in town. I've 387 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 1: been killing it on the road. I'm gonna do great, 388 00:20:57,320 --> 00:20:59,400 Speaker 1: and and that was I went into this room, Holy 389 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: City Zoo, and on the show was like Greg Proops, 390 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 1: Margaret Show, Jeanine Garoffalo, Greg Barren, like all these comedians 391 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:10,679 Speaker 1: doing this stuff that rhythms I'd never heard before. I 392 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:14,160 Speaker 1: went up with my road rhythms, all my a stuff 393 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:17,120 Speaker 1: that I thought would kill and it just died. Then 394 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 1: I watched all of these comedians I'd never seen before, 395 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:23,440 Speaker 1: who were the best comedians I'd ever seen. I remember 396 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 1: very specifically, I walked across street from the Holy City 397 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:29,119 Speaker 1: Zoo to the Taiwan Restaurant on Clement Street, and I 398 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:31,280 Speaker 1: sat there with my notebook and I tore all the 399 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:34,399 Speaker 1: pages out of my notebook, all my routines, and I 400 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 1: wrote it was May five, the tip. And then I 401 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 1: just started fresh, like I gotta start at zero now 402 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:41,359 Speaker 1: because none of that stuff works, Like I've got to 403 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 1: start over the road. Stuff doesn't work. And then I 404 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:48,480 Speaker 1: started rebuilding that. And that's when probably around four years 405 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 1: after that was when I really felt like, oh now 406 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:53,880 Speaker 1: I'm me on stage Francisco. I'm still in San Francis. Well, 407 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:57,639 Speaker 1: at that I moved away from San Francisco because also 408 00:21:58,000 --> 00:21:59,640 Speaker 1: the clubs were closing there, and I got a writing 409 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:02,720 Speaker 1: job doing what I was writing on the first two 410 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:05,199 Speaker 1: seasons a Mad TV. You went down to l A, 411 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:07,640 Speaker 1: went down to l A, and then that your first 412 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:10,200 Speaker 1: time in l A. That was my first permanent time 413 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 1: in l A. Yeah. And then and that's when the 414 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:15,879 Speaker 1: un Cabaret was happening in Largo. And all these alternative rooms, 415 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:18,639 Speaker 1: and I was going there and that's when I really 416 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:21,240 Speaker 1: really felt like I became who I am. And that's 417 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 1: how many years? So that's my point. How many years 418 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 1: into your career are you before you go I think 419 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,199 Speaker 1: that the cake is cooked for me? It was like 420 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:31,080 Speaker 1: eight years before I felt really it's an amazing yeah. 421 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 1: But but what's weird is, and I'm sure a lot 422 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:37,240 Speaker 1: of people have experiences. I was working as a professional comedian, 423 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:39,199 Speaker 1: but I doesn't. I didn't feel like I was me, 424 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 1: And I wonder if that's I bet there's a lot 425 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 1: of actors and writers and performers who had years of 426 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 1: making money but weren't feeling like they were actually doing, 427 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:52,560 Speaker 1: you know, something that was theirs. So you start writing 428 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 1: from Mad TV? And then what kind of zone do 429 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 1: you find yourself? Does everything get to be different when 430 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 1: you're in the big league, so to speak? So, um what? 431 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 1: But here's here. Here's the interesting thing. At the time 432 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:04,680 Speaker 1: that I was writing on Mad TV, and they were 433 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 1: amazing writers on that show, and we got to do 434 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:11,640 Speaker 1: some really good stuff. But Mad TV was my introduction to, oh, 435 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:14,680 Speaker 1: this is what it's like working for a big network 436 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 1: where you've got to serve a lot of things before 437 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 1: you can even get to the comedy, which I've heard 438 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 1: sometimes can happen on SNL where there's like other considerations 439 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:26,400 Speaker 1: first and then you got to get to the comedy. 440 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:28,200 Speaker 1: And at the time that I was my Mad TV 441 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:30,879 Speaker 1: at the same time Mr Show was happening over on 442 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:33,480 Speaker 1: HBO and all my friends a lot of my friends 443 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,240 Speaker 1: or on Mr Show, and that was where there was 444 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:38,720 Speaker 1: nothing but the comedy. It was all about what was 445 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 1: the best idea and everyone is getting to work at 446 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:45,360 Speaker 1: the height of their powers. And I was so jealous 447 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:49,119 Speaker 1: of like why can't I be over there? But it 448 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:51,959 Speaker 1: took me a while to see that I was learning 449 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:56,000 Speaker 1: some very important lessons over at mad TV of how 450 00:23:56,080 --> 00:24:00,280 Speaker 1: to circumvent the system. And also when I look back, 451 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:04,399 Speaker 1: there were real moments of brilliance that the actors and 452 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:08,560 Speaker 1: the writers could conspire together and get through around the network, 453 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 1: going but we need to have this thing, and we 454 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:13,639 Speaker 1: need to have this thing and there, and they found 455 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:15,720 Speaker 1: ways to give them what they thought they wanted and 456 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:19,600 Speaker 1: then do amazing stuff. So there's always no matter where 457 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 1: you are. What I learned was don't look at over 458 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 1: what other people are doing look at where you are 459 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:27,640 Speaker 1: and how can you make that as good and interesting 460 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:32,360 Speaker 1: as you can? So you wrote a memoir silver screen fiend. 461 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:36,360 Speaker 1: M hm, how did you get that book published? Um? 462 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,960 Speaker 1: I had published a book before of like essays, but 463 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:42,160 Speaker 1: but it wasn't totally met. There were like a couple 464 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 1: of memoir chapters, but I wasn't confident enough to just 465 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,280 Speaker 1: write a full memoir at Simon and Schuster and they 466 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:48,679 Speaker 1: liked it and they said, you have another book in you. 467 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:52,040 Speaker 1: And then I was looking through my old calendars at 468 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:54,440 Speaker 1: my time in the in l A, in the when 469 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,719 Speaker 1: I moved there, and I'm like, my god, I was like, 470 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:01,480 Speaker 1: I didn't realize how obsessed I was with films because 471 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:03,520 Speaker 1: it was the first time that I really lived in 472 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,200 Speaker 1: a city where you could go see a movie, either 473 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 1: a new or a classic movie, pretty much every night 474 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:10,679 Speaker 1: of the week in the theater, not at home, in 475 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 1: the theater with people the new Beverly Beverly and the 476 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:17,920 Speaker 1: new Art and the new Art and all those places. 477 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:21,240 Speaker 1: So I started going and I started kind of and 478 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:23,399 Speaker 1: I'm sure you went through the same thing with when 479 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:25,200 Speaker 1: you first started being a theater actor. And there must 480 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:27,560 Speaker 1: have been a time when you would just obsessively go 481 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:30,919 Speaker 1: to the theater to watch shows because you realize, I 482 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 1: want to be doing this, so I'm going to absorb 483 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 1: as much of it. The love Oh I not to 484 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 1: do oh my god. My friends and I would go 485 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 1: watch bad stand up at open mics, not to make 486 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:47,160 Speaker 1: fun of it, but just to go, oh, don't do that, 487 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:49,840 Speaker 1: don't do that, don't do you know. It was and 488 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:52,359 Speaker 1: same with films. Oh when you see like the same 489 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,040 Speaker 1: things happening over and over again, Oh, don't do that, 490 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:59,000 Speaker 1: don't do that. So that kind of um obsession, I 491 00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 1: really you know, it kind of took over my life 492 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:03,919 Speaker 1: for like those four years. It's I go, this is 493 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:06,920 Speaker 1: the most boring addiction memoir ever written, because it's about 494 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:10,359 Speaker 1: me being addicted to movies. Although I saw people I 495 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 1: got very close to tipping over the edge of There 496 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:17,639 Speaker 1: are people that are kind of lost by films, and 497 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:20,679 Speaker 1: you see them holding their like Leonard Malton guides that 498 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:24,480 Speaker 1: are just tattered clip and mark because they've got to 499 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,360 Speaker 1: see every movie. And there's a you know, in New 500 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,880 Speaker 1: York is an even just as equally a dangerous place 501 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,040 Speaker 1: to be a film fanatic because you can go see 502 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:37,359 Speaker 1: I mean not now, obviously, in the heyday, I live 503 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 1: around the corner from Cinema Village, really live downtown. But 504 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:43,800 Speaker 1: you say about New Beverley is, and I remember this. 505 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 1: I would go to There was the KB Cerberus Theater 506 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,960 Speaker 1: in Washington, and I would go there. I'll never forget 507 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,840 Speaker 1: one day in a revival theater. I can see Last 508 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:57,000 Speaker 1: Tango and I go into that theater and the music 509 00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:01,360 Speaker 1: and the whole and Brando's you know, self flagellation, all 510 00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:03,120 Speaker 1: of it. I go see this movie and I haven't 511 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:05,360 Speaker 1: seen any movies like that, And I remember coming out 512 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 1: of the theater and I was hammered and the sky 513 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:11,760 Speaker 1: was gray. It's washing. The sky was wintertime. I'm in 514 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 1: school and the sky is leaden. Remember seeing it, going 515 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:17,520 Speaker 1: like I didn't want to go back into the world. 516 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:19,880 Speaker 1: I didn't. I wanted to go back into the theater 517 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,400 Speaker 1: and go run it again or show me another movie. 518 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:24,720 Speaker 1: I couldn't. I didn't want to face the world. I mean, yeah, 519 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 1: I get into these weird dives. But the mood that 520 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 1: I've been in, I wanted to see Alec Guinness in 521 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 1: Tinker Taylor because I've been so starved for a character 522 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 1: who's just quiet and competent and can just do like. 523 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:39,960 Speaker 1: I was so starved for that that that was my 524 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:43,800 Speaker 1: oasis during all this was Oh, a quiet, non flashy 525 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,280 Speaker 1: guy who can actually get stuff done. He was so 526 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,480 Speaker 1: good He would clean his eyeglasses with a fat part 527 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:52,639 Speaker 1: of his tie, and it became so much part of 528 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,720 Speaker 1: his character that that that when Lakaray wrote Smile these People, 529 00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 1: he added that trait because of watching the TV shows, 530 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,480 Speaker 1: like he did the character that I created better, and 531 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,199 Speaker 1: now I've got to adjust him to the actor that 532 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:08,119 Speaker 1: did it like that level of just inhabiting. But the 533 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,520 Speaker 1: thing about writing and acting, there's a risk Alan Moore 534 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:16,640 Speaker 1: talked about this when you truly inhabit characters long term. 535 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:19,680 Speaker 1: There's a mental risk for great writers and great actors 536 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:23,960 Speaker 1: when you sacrifice your personality to go into these other lives. 537 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:27,359 Speaker 1: You've got to have a safe place to come out 538 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:29,320 Speaker 1: of and kind of get yourself back on the ground. 539 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:31,440 Speaker 1: That's why I think you see with a lot of 540 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:34,479 Speaker 1: actors who go way deep later in life, they kind 541 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:37,040 Speaker 1: of suffer their personality flickers a little bit and they're 542 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 1: never quite on a steady keel after a while. You know, 543 00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:44,320 Speaker 1: Peter Sellers is a great example of you know, he 544 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,360 Speaker 1: basically said, I don't have a personality. It's like he 545 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:51,800 Speaker 1: sacrifices personality before he even started acting. So you've gone 546 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:53,800 Speaker 1: kind of deep with some of you. I mean, there's 547 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 1: not a lot. There's not a lot of the warm 548 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 1: of uncular Alec Baldwin at the beginning of Glen Garry 549 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:01,880 Speaker 1: Glenn us, how do you do you have a place 550 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:05,640 Speaker 1: where you can come out of characters like that or well, 551 00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,720 Speaker 1: I always tell the same story. And this is to 552 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 1: me one of the most meaningful moments of my career 553 00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:13,840 Speaker 1: where a director really helped me. This guy, Jamie Folly, 554 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:15,280 Speaker 1: said to me, he said, it's like that scene in 555 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 1: Patton when Patton slaps the guy and says, you call 556 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 1: yourself a soldier. He said, that's what we're doing here. 557 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:21,080 Speaker 1: He says, you call yourself a salesman. He said, you're 558 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 1: doing this for their own good. You're doing this for 559 00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:27,200 Speaker 1: their own good. You don't want to do this, he said, 560 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:28,600 Speaker 1: you gott And once he said that to me, I 561 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:30,960 Speaker 1: felt like, literally like a cartoon character. Were like the 562 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:34,040 Speaker 1: lightning bolts went through my shoulders down into my fingertips. 563 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,040 Speaker 1: I was like, I looked at my wing. I got 564 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 1: it and I went out there and I was like, 565 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 1: I'm gonna fucking I'm gonna, I'm gonna knock you out. Man. 566 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:42,600 Speaker 1: If you don't, you gotta you gotta do whatever that 567 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:44,240 Speaker 1: Just do what the funk I tell you to do. 568 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,200 Speaker 1: And I went out there and and and folly. The 569 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:49,920 Speaker 1: phrase I use for what I teach acting is authorization. 570 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:53,800 Speaker 1: What authorizes you do when you if you go into 571 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:56,120 Speaker 1: an operating room. And I've done this to prepare for 572 00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:59,000 Speaker 1: a film. I watched over a hundred hours of surgery 573 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,840 Speaker 1: in Last Angeles and in western Massachusetts to the movie Malice, 574 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:05,760 Speaker 1: not because I wanted to learn surgery. My favorite line 575 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:07,920 Speaker 1: is Walter Matthau. They said, you're playing a doctor, do 576 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 1: you want to go observe surgery? And Walter math I 577 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,719 Speaker 1: took a pause and said, I'm a movie actor. No 578 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 1: one expects me to really know how to do surgery. 579 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:18,959 Speaker 1: But the point is that I wanted to go in 580 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,440 Speaker 1: that room so that when I went into the set, 581 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:23,880 Speaker 1: when I got on the stage and we did the scene, 582 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:27,600 Speaker 1: I'd seen it right, I knew it. I was authorized 583 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:29,520 Speaker 1: to do this because I knew it, And to me, 584 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:32,800 Speaker 1: that's vital. I need the authorization of that character. Yeah, 585 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:36,680 Speaker 1: but but I just wonder how far is too far? Sometimes? 586 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 1: And I wonder that too, like when I'm writing or 587 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 1: when I'm doing some of the more dramatic roles. Like 588 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,080 Speaker 1: I just watched the Michael Jordan documentary. This is weird 589 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:46,720 Speaker 1: how this ties in. But his teammates are talking in 590 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:49,040 Speaker 1: the documentary about how he was kind of an a hole, 591 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 1: but he needed to operate at this I'm a demigod 592 00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 1: level to perform at the level that he did, Like 593 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,200 Speaker 1: that's how he won. And at the end, like you 594 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 1: see how kind of drained he is, he's crying a 595 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:02,720 Speaker 1: little bit, like I know that I was doing that, 596 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:04,600 Speaker 1: but it's what I needed to do to with Like 597 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:07,640 Speaker 1: in art, you do wonder how much of myself do 598 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:11,240 Speaker 1: I sacrifice? How much do I hold back? You know, 599 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,000 Speaker 1: like that's always gonna be that ongoing question. And also 600 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 1: with with comedy, how when I was doing that special annihilation, 601 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:23,040 Speaker 1: how deep into my own darkness do I go as 602 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 1: a comedian until it stops being entertainment instinct you've developed? 603 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:31,280 Speaker 1: I didn't. I mean, luckily I had years of doing 604 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,040 Speaker 1: comedy where I kind of had an idea. But when 605 00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,640 Speaker 1: it really got down to it, I remember Bob kat 606 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,440 Speaker 1: Goldthwaite was directing the special and he came back into 607 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:41,520 Speaker 1: the green room before I went on or He was like, 608 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:43,400 Speaker 1: you just want to go out there, don't you like? 609 00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:45,760 Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, I can't think about this anymore. I 610 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:48,280 Speaker 1: have to go out there. And you you must have 611 00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:50,680 Speaker 1: seen this in place where we've rehearsed the ship out 612 00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:53,560 Speaker 1: of it. But now, can we just go and get 613 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:55,640 Speaker 1: started and then we'll fucking figure it out. If we 614 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:57,600 Speaker 1: can start, that's the best way to figure it out. 615 00:31:57,800 --> 00:31:59,960 Speaker 1: Just let me fucking go out there and I'll figure 616 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,360 Speaker 1: it out. You know, I see people who are comic 617 00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 1: talent who I think I'll never forget. I said to 618 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:06,960 Speaker 1: Chris Rock one time. I said, I knew some guys 619 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:09,680 Speaker 1: that were very powerful group of people in the music 620 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,760 Speaker 1: business and had a lot of access to rights and things. 621 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:15,760 Speaker 1: And I said to Chris, you should play Miles Davis. 622 00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 1: I said, I know you're an actor. You're you're an actor. 623 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 1: I mean that you're funny and you do all that 624 00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:26,400 Speaker 1: marauding the stage and the way I always cry, and 625 00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:28,400 Speaker 1: I feel the same way about you. You're an actor. 626 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:32,560 Speaker 1: And do you sometimes feel like, Okay, I've done the 627 00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:35,640 Speaker 1: comedy thing. I got that in my pocket, marauding the 628 00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:39,880 Speaker 1: stage with a microphone in Charlotte, be dazzling everybody. Time 629 00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:42,840 Speaker 1: to go do something else. You know the thing about 630 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 1: Santa Bus. It doesn't have to be either or you 631 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:47,720 Speaker 1: can go do other things and then go do That's 632 00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:49,200 Speaker 1: what I remember. I went and saw me and Maria 633 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:53,240 Speaker 1: Bamford went and saw Jerry Steinfeld's comedian documentary together, and 634 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:55,120 Speaker 1: we were walking out and she was like, we picked 635 00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:58,040 Speaker 1: a profession that we can do forever. We could always 636 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:00,520 Speaker 1: do stand up. We can also do other things. We 637 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:02,760 Speaker 1: can always do stand up and stand up is such 638 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:05,880 Speaker 1: a It is one of the last pure, I guess, 639 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:09,479 Speaker 1: dictatorial posts where I think it, I say it. That's it. 640 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:11,960 Speaker 1: And if anything, you get to a point where I mean, 641 00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:13,880 Speaker 1: maybe I'll get to the point where Chris Rock is. 642 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:17,320 Speaker 1: Where you can get to the point where you not 643 00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:19,600 Speaker 1: only elicit laughter, you elicit what I like to call 644 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:23,680 Speaker 1: the laughter of disbelief, where Chris Rock says things and 645 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 1: people like the h ship. I mean, that's true, but 646 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:32,520 Speaker 1: holy fuck, I mean, did can he that? I mean 647 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,280 Speaker 1: that is true? But we don't like he says things 648 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:38,959 Speaker 1: where the audience you can you feel the laughter is like, 649 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:41,040 Speaker 1: I mean, we all know that, but we're not supposed 650 00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:42,720 Speaker 1: to say that, all right, But he just said that, 651 00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:45,640 Speaker 1: So I guess we're gonna like that level of you know, 652 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:47,840 Speaker 1: maybe I can get to that level. But I never 653 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:49,800 Speaker 1: want to stop doing stand up, but I definitely want 654 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 1: to do other things because, especially if you do stand 655 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:55,160 Speaker 1: up long enough and you try to be as wired 656 00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:59,200 Speaker 1: into not only other people's foibles but especially your own. 657 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,320 Speaker 1: You see in acting where people don't go deep enough 658 00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:05,200 Speaker 1: with that or they're not as honest, like, oh you 659 00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:09,040 Speaker 1: pulled back. Why didn't you just stay and go that deep? 660 00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:11,840 Speaker 1: So then you want to do that as an actor, 661 00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:18,200 Speaker 1: actor and comedian Patton Oswald, if you're enjoying this conversation, 662 00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:21,440 Speaker 1: don't keep it to yourself, Tell a friend and subscribe 663 00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:24,640 Speaker 1: to Here's the Thing on the I Heart Radio app, 664 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:29,000 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. When we 665 00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:32,720 Speaker 1: come back, Patton Oswald talks about falling in love again. 666 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:43,759 Speaker 1: I'm Alec Baldwin and this is Here's the Thing. In 667 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:47,720 Speaker 1: Patton Oswald's Netflix comedy special I Love Everything. He talks 668 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:51,080 Speaker 1: about finding love again. Not to bum you guys out, 669 00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:55,080 Speaker 1: but I was very, very resigned to living in the gray. 670 00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:56,800 Speaker 1: I was, after what I went through a couple of 671 00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:58,400 Speaker 1: years ago. I was just going to I'm going to 672 00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:01,319 Speaker 1: live in the gray, and I'm just to raise my 673 00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:04,640 Speaker 1: daughter alone and try to put focus all the joy 674 00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:07,439 Speaker 1: and adventure in life on her and give her that life, 675 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:09,440 Speaker 1: and I will merely exist. I'm not going to hit 676 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:13,120 Speaker 1: joy again, but that's fine. I can still exist, That's okay. 677 00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:18,320 Speaker 1: And then I met this poem of a woman who 678 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:20,839 Speaker 1: ReLit the sky, and I just said, I'm going to 679 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:25,279 Speaker 1: run at love again. If you see love, run at it. 680 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:31,239 Speaker 1: Run at love. If you see it, trust me, run 681 00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:37,200 Speaker 1: at love. Patton Oswald married actress Meredith Salinger in November 682 00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:41,040 Speaker 1: two thousand seventeen. Her breakout role came at age fifteen 683 00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:44,120 Speaker 1: as the lead in the Journey of Natty Gan. I 684 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,360 Speaker 1: wanted to know how Patton Oswald found such a perfect 685 00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:52,640 Speaker 1: match a second time. I was married to this extraordinary woman, 686 00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:55,359 Speaker 1: and I think the fact that I was with her 687 00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:59,160 Speaker 1: for so long was what helped me see very quickly 688 00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:03,000 Speaker 1: this other ex ordinary woman. Because Meredith Sounder, who is 689 00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:09,960 Speaker 1: yes child actress, insanely gorgeous teen actress beyond gorgeous, like 690 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:16,880 Speaker 1: like classic nineteen forties movie siren gorge Yes, exactly, how 691 00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:18,840 Speaker 1: did you meet her? We have a friend in common, 692 00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:23,239 Speaker 1: Martha Plimpton, amazing actress, and Martha Plimpton likes to do 693 00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:26,880 Speaker 1: these salons where she brings various people together for dinners 694 00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,240 Speaker 1: at her house. That's what I do. And the morning 695 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:31,399 Speaker 1: of it, I had to fly back from Austin at 696 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:33,000 Speaker 1: like six in the morning. And when I got home, like, 697 00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:36,480 Speaker 1: I can't go out again. I'm so dehydrated and exhausted, 698 00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:38,520 Speaker 1: and I I'm so sorry I have to beg off. 699 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:42,000 Speaker 1: And then the next day Meredith sent me a message saying, 700 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,080 Speaker 1: you missed the best lasagna last night, dude, And then 701 00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:47,520 Speaker 1: I wrote back story in my life film. Maybe we'll 702 00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:49,719 Speaker 1: go get coffee. It's not sorry, you know, And then 703 00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:53,759 Speaker 1: we just started. This was in February of sen I'm 704 00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,480 Speaker 1: still deep in my grief, but I'm just talking to 705 00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:59,479 Speaker 1: We're just talking about books and politics. Oh my god, 706 00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:01,440 Speaker 1: the world is insane right now. And it got to 707 00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:04,120 Speaker 1: the point where of the many things I missed about Michelle, 708 00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:07,520 Speaker 1: I missed having someone fascinating to talk to in the 709 00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:10,040 Speaker 1: dark at the end of the day, so as I 710 00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:12,560 Speaker 1: would put Alice to bed and then I would just 711 00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:14,600 Speaker 1: get on my phone like at nine o'clock and I 712 00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:16,799 Speaker 1: would go, hey, are you here, and you're like, oh, yeah, 713 00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:19,720 Speaker 1: what's going because she was also like she has dated 714 00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:23,359 Speaker 1: some fascinating and very troubled people in her life, and 715 00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:27,839 Speaker 1: she was taking a hiatus from the damaged Geniuses, and 716 00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:29,800 Speaker 1: so she was just in her apartment with her cats, 717 00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:32,839 Speaker 1: and we would just every night like, okay, same time 718 00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:34,800 Speaker 1: tomorrow night. And for three months we never spoke on 719 00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:36,960 Speaker 1: the phone, never met in person. We would just right 720 00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:40,760 Speaker 1: for like hours about everything and just talking, talking, talking, 721 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,080 Speaker 1: and then without us either because I was not looking 722 00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:45,880 Speaker 1: to date anyone, not having to fall in love and like, 723 00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,440 Speaker 1: oh someone, And there was also someone that wasn't it's 724 00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:50,840 Speaker 1: gonna sound weird. She wasn't in my immediate circle of 725 00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:54,319 Speaker 1: friends or family, so every conversation didn't start off with 726 00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:57,920 Speaker 1: the how are you doing okay? How like this was 727 00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:01,560 Speaker 1: just me talking about to someone with an incredibly agile 728 00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:04,880 Speaker 1: brain from your suffering exactly, And so we would just 729 00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:07,759 Speaker 1: connect on all these supper levels and then without knowing it, 730 00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:10,000 Speaker 1: we just kind of I just we fell in love 731 00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:13,120 Speaker 1: with each other without realizing it. And then we finally 732 00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:17,160 Speaker 1: met in May after three months of just talking in 733 00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:20,600 Speaker 1: the lobby of Shutters Hotel and she I go, I go, 734 00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:22,680 Speaker 1: let's go get dinner. She goes, well, let's go somewhere 735 00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:26,280 Speaker 1: where if it doesn't work out. We were so realistic 736 00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:28,560 Speaker 1: about it, like if we meet and it doesn't click, 737 00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:31,040 Speaker 1: we either of us can leave. And I go, absolutely, 738 00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:33,080 Speaker 1: that's a great idea. And so we went to shut 739 00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:35,880 Speaker 1: Hers Hotel and had dinner in the restaurant there. But 740 00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:38,200 Speaker 1: when we met and she tapped me on the shoulder 741 00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:39,560 Speaker 1: in the lobby and I turned around and her first 742 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:41,680 Speaker 1: words were and I'm saying this as a brag, because 743 00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:44,960 Speaker 1: Meredith Sounder said to me and she goes, oh, you're 744 00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:49,879 Speaker 1: so cute. And I was like okay, and then yeah, 745 00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:57,399 Speaker 1: and playing against him like the woman she is, like 746 00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:03,279 Speaker 1: she is enragingly beautiful, Just like, what the hell are 747 00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:07,000 Speaker 1: you kidding me? Love is love God love. You find 748 00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:08,520 Speaker 1: it where you find it, and when you find it, 749 00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:10,800 Speaker 1: the only thing is you say thank you. You're grateful. 750 00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:14,759 Speaker 1: You're grateful. Yeah, And I was like, I was so 751 00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:17,960 Speaker 1: obviously I had some oh my god, I'm getting married. 752 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,600 Speaker 1: But also it's not like we're in our twenties trying 753 00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:22,640 Speaker 1: to discover ourselves. I don't know if I like at 754 00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:24,960 Speaker 1: that age, if you know, when you find the other person, like, 755 00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:26,680 Speaker 1: let's get married. What I'm not going to go to 756 00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:28,920 Speaker 1: all this and you know, you know, yeah, And I 757 00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:31,920 Speaker 1: remember talking to other widows and they were like, ignore 758 00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:34,680 Speaker 1: all the stuff. Because one of the widows, and I 759 00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:37,040 Speaker 1: knew it was a woman, she was like, I waited 760 00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:39,640 Speaker 1: ten years to get married. And I got the same 761 00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:42,359 Speaker 1: crap from people because they're like, she waited too long. 762 00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:48,440 Speaker 1: She got grief because she waited too long, you know 763 00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:51,239 Speaker 1: what I mean. So she's like, there's no way to 764 00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:52,920 Speaker 1: do it, but no one will ever be happy with it. 765 00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:55,480 Speaker 1: You have to be happy. You can't live their lives. 766 00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:58,600 Speaker 1: Go do what you have to do. And it's been great. 767 00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:04,720 Speaker 1: And Meredith is the most amazing mom to our daughter. 768 00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:10,440 Speaker 1: She is like again, it's like Alice had Michelle, this 769 00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:13,799 Speaker 1: amazing crime fighter, and now she has Meredith, who's this 770 00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:18,600 Speaker 1: amazing adventurer. I'm following a small basket of people's careers, 771 00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:21,120 Speaker 1: of which yours is one of them. Wow, I mean 772 00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:23,560 Speaker 1: I find you as somebody who and I really really 773 00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:25,560 Speaker 1: mean this. The thing about you that I find so 774 00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:29,160 Speaker 1: exciting is anything is possible. There's just nothing you could 775 00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:32,520 Speaker 1: do that would surprise me. Dramatically acting I mean the 776 00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:35,359 Speaker 1: writing and stuff like, but in terms of comedy and 777 00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:38,400 Speaker 1: comedy shows and stand up but also a dramatic acting. 778 00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:41,759 Speaker 1: I think that you're capable of anything, Thank you. I 779 00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:45,960 Speaker 1: mean even marrying Meredith Salinger. That is that must have 780 00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:49,439 Speaker 1: been the okay, that was the real point. God, wow, 781 00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:51,520 Speaker 1: the Ratitui married Natty Gain. I don't know how he 782 00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:58,560 Speaker 1: pulled it off. Yeah he did. Comedian Patton Oswald. I'm 783 00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:00,799 Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin. Here's the thing. Is brought to you by 784 00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:05,960 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. We're produced by Kathleen Russo, Carrie donohue, 785 00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:10,840 Speaker 1: and Zach McNeice. Our engineer is Frank Imperial. Thanks for listening.