1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:03,320 Speaker 1: Hey, it' Jorhan Daniel here, and we want to tell 2 00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 1: you about our new book. It's called Frequently Asked Questions 3 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:09,719 Speaker 1: about the Universe because you have questions about the universe, 4 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:12,399 Speaker 1: and so we decided to write a book all about them. 5 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 1: We talk about your questions, we give some answers, we 6 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: make a bunch of silly jokes as usual, and we 7 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:20,159 Speaker 1: tackle all kinds of questions, including what happens if I 8 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 1: fall into a black hole? Or is there another version 9 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:25,480 Speaker 1: of you out there that's right? Like usual, we tackle 10 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 1: the deepest, darkest, biggest, craziest questions about this incredible cosmos. 11 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 1: If you want to support the podcast, please get the 12 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:33,879 Speaker 1: book and get a copy not just for yourself, but 13 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 1: you know, for your nieces and nephews, cousins, friends, parents, dogs, hamsters, 14 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 1: and for the aliens. So get your copy of Frequently 15 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 1: Asked Questions about the Universe is available for pre order now, 16 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:49,239 Speaker 1: coming out November two. You can find more details at 17 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:53,160 Speaker 1: the book's website, Universe f a Q dot com. Thanks 18 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 1: for your support, and if you have a hamster that 19 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 1: can read, please let us know. We'd love to have 20 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 1: them on the podcast. Hey Daniel, do you think we'll 21 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 1: figure out what dark matter is one day. Yeah. I 22 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 1: have faith in our human intelligence. I think we're going 23 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 1: to crack this puzzle. Oh wow, I didn't figure you 24 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 1: to be an optimist. But do you think, like, if 25 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 1: we ever find out what it is it might be 26 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 1: like disappointing. I don't know. I don't see how that's possible. 27 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 1: It's it's one of the greatest mysteries of science. Yeah, 28 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 1: but what if the answer is kind of like not 29 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 1: that interesting? Do you mean, like it's just a bunch 30 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 1: of dark chocolate floating out in space and he had 31 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 1: a lot of delicious matter out there. No, I mean, like, 32 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 1: what if it's just like one kind of particle that 33 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 1: does nothing interesting, Like it's a very simple particle. I 34 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 1: think that no matter what the answer is, it's going 35 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 1: to be satisfying to finally know after so many years 36 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 1: of wondering. It seems kind of dangerous to have such 37 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 1: high expectations. The universe has never disappointed me so far. 38 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 1: Just wait till the end of this episode, though. Ye 39 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 1: Hi am or handmade cartoonists and the creator of PhD Comics. Hi. 40 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 1: I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and a professor at 41 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 1: U c Irvine, and I believe the universe has lots 42 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 1: of crazy, fun adventures in store for us. Wow, you 43 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 1: have a lot of high expectations for the thrill factor 44 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 1: of the universe. I do, but it's also rooted in data. 45 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 1: I mean, look at all the times we've discovered amazing, crazy, 46 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:40,120 Speaker 1: bonkers things about the universe. It keeps surpassing our expectations. 47 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:43,800 Speaker 1: It keeps even outstripping our science fiction authors in terms 48 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 1: of creative ways the universe could be organized. Does that 49 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:48,480 Speaker 1: mean like every time you sit down and work at 50 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:52,079 Speaker 1: your office, it's like strapping on on a roller cluster ride. 51 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 1: You're like, I don't know what's gonna happen, but it's 52 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 1: gonna be an amazing thrill. Well, there's definitely always a 53 00:02:56,919 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 1: question mark, you know, you never know in research if 54 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 1: today is going to be the day you discover something 55 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 1: incredible that changes history in the way we think about 56 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 1: universe and life, or it's just gonna be another day 57 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:09,079 Speaker 1: of finding bugs in your code and you should have 58 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 1: a seatbelt on your office chair. Justin king, I wear 59 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:14,959 Speaker 1: a helmet. Yeah, But anyways, welcome to our podcast. Daniel 60 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:17,359 Speaker 1: and Jorge explain the Universe a production of I Heart 61 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 1: Radio and welcome to the roller coaster ride that is 62 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 1: the discovery of our universe. We have just started to 63 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 1: crank on up the tracks. We are that part of 64 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 1: the roller coaster. We are gaining elevation, and you know 65 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 1: that thrills are coming because most of the universe remains 66 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 1: a mystery to us, and our job on the podcast 67 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 1: here today and every day is to ask questions about 68 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 1: all of those mysteries, to wonder what else is out there, 69 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 1: how does it work? And are we gonna lose our 70 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 1: hats when we find out? That's right? Don't raise your arms, 71 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 1: wint in physics. It makes it more exciting. Do you 72 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 1: think the roller coaster physics would be like a series 73 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 1: of couches trapped into some wheels I see with physics 74 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 1: taking naps on them. Yeah, there you go, and it 75 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 1: just goes really slowly and slowly upside down and then 76 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 1: the coffee spills out. You don't sound very excited. Don't 77 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 1: forget that there are big adventures in physics. There are 78 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 1: times in our history when we've had to throw away 79 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 1: everything we thought we knew and completely reorient the way 80 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 1: we think about the universe. So I don't know if 81 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 1: those are drops or twists or turns or skeletons jumping 82 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 1: out of the hodded house, but there's definitely some thrills 83 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 1: on this ride. Yeah, it is a pretty interesting and 84 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:28,480 Speaker 1: amazing universe, full of surprises, and it's also full of giant, 85 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 1: enormous mysteries, like, for example, the question of what is 86 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 1: the universe made out of? That's right, We've been spending 87 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 1: a lot of time trying to think about what we 88 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 1: are made out of and what you are made out of, 89 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: what that rock over there is made out of, what 90 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:44,160 Speaker 1: the rock himself is made out of. But it turns 91 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 1: out the most to the universe is not made out 92 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 1: of that kind of stuff. Most of the universe is 93 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 1: something weird and different and new we only recently discovered 94 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:54,040 Speaker 1: even exists. Yeah, it's not just a little bit of 95 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 1: the universe. It's a whopping third of the universe. It's 96 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 1: something we totally don't know. And it's not just a 97 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 1: third of the uni verse. It's like five times the 98 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 1: amount of regular stuff in the universe, the stuff that 99 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:06,719 Speaker 1: you and I are made out of. Yeah, and I 100 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 1: love how we call our stuff regular stuff, even though 101 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:12,839 Speaker 1: it's the unusual stuff. You know, it's it's the weird 102 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 1: stuff in the universe. Most of the universe, the matter 103 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 1: in the universe is this other weird stuff that's called 104 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 1: dark matter. We are the sprinkles on top of the cupcake. 105 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 1: We are not the cupcake. I guess I'm in regular 106 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 1: as in, you know, like your bowel movements, boy, I mean, 107 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:31,719 Speaker 1: the rest of the universe is constipated. I don't know 108 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 1: if anything's gonna be associated with bowel movements. I think 109 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:37,840 Speaker 1: it would be dark matter. Yeah, because it's dark. You know. 110 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:41,280 Speaker 1: My wife studies the biological dark matter, which is most 111 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 1: of the stuff in the human genome and in the 112 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:45,600 Speaker 1: viral genome that we don't know. So it turns out 113 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 1: that there's lots of things we don't know about the 114 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 1: universe inside and outside of us. Yeah, they say a 115 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 1: big part of our biology is a sort of unknown. 116 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 1: And also just the very things that the universe is 117 00:05:56,279 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 1: made out of. I mean not just us and you 118 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:00,159 Speaker 1: and me, but like all the rocks, all the us 119 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 1: out there, all the dust, every planet out there is 120 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 1: mad at of stuff that is not common in the universe. 121 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 1: That's right, and that's unsatisfying, right. We want to know 122 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 1: what the university is made out of, which means we 123 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 1: want to understand everything that's out there, not just a 124 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: tiny bit. If you wanted to study elephants, you wouldn't 125 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 1: just look at their trunk, or you wouldn't just take 126 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:20,040 Speaker 1: a close look at your ear. You want to understand 127 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 1: the whole elephant. And in the same way, we want 128 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:25,600 Speaker 1: to tackle the entire universe. We think ambitiously. We ask 129 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 1: big questions and we demand big answers. Yeah, and so 130 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 1: whopping of the universe? Is dark matter? This thing that 131 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 1: we call dark matter because we don't actually know what 132 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 1: it is, right, We only call it dark matter because 133 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:39,280 Speaker 1: it's dark because it doesn't interact with light, so you 134 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 1: can't see it. And we know it's matter because it 135 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 1: feels or it has gravitational effects, and so we call 136 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 1: it matter, but we don't actually know what it is. 137 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 1: It could be anything. Yeah, it could be a lot 138 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 1: of things. There's basically a short list of things it 139 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:54,920 Speaker 1: can't be that we've ruled out, but otherwise it could 140 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 1: be a lot of different stuff. That's right. It can 141 00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:00,720 Speaker 1: be bald movement. It cannot be bald move unless you 142 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:03,040 Speaker 1: have really really strange bat movements, and I don't know 143 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 1: what you've been eating. It's not a crappy universe, No, 144 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: it's not. But you know, if you hear physicists talk 145 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 1: about dark matter, they mostly talk about dark matter in 146 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: terms of some particle is dark matter, of this particle 147 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 1: is dark matter that particle. And that's the kind of 148 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 1: thing physicists due because they don't know any better, right, 149 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:21,240 Speaker 1: they know the universe that we're familiar with is made 150 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 1: of particles, and they sort of just like extrapolate from 151 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: what we do know into the unknown. And you know, 152 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 1: that's how science works. You build from what you know 153 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 1: and you explore out into the unknown using the language 154 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 1: and the constructs that you have in your mind. Right, 155 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 1: I guess that makes sense. Right. You gotta go with 156 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 1: what do you know currently, and if that doesn't work, 157 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:40,120 Speaker 1: then you know, you have to look for something else. 158 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:42,560 Speaker 1: And so we have episodes where we talked about dark 159 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 1: matter and also how we know it's there, what it is, 160 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 1: and we've talked about some of the things it could be. 161 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 1: But in particular, it seems that physicists have sort of 162 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 1: narrowed down or at least are mostly leaning on the 163 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 1: idea that dark matter is some kind of particle, some 164 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 1: kind of particle that we just haven't really seen because it, 165 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 1: I guess doesn't interact with electromagnetic forces. That's right. Physicists 166 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 1: really like this idea. They like the idea that dark 167 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:09,120 Speaker 1: matter might be a particle. It's sort of the way 168 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 1: they think. It's like if you ask a carpenter to 169 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 1: build a house, he's going to make it for you 170 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 1: out of wood, because that's what they're used to. And 171 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 1: so physicists are sort of in a rut here thinking 172 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 1: about dark matter in terms of particles. And on the 173 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 1: podcast a few times we've talked about this, like is 174 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 1: that justified? What evidence do we have that it's a particle? 175 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 1: What arguments do we have that it might not be 176 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 1: a particle? And we sort of glossed over this question. 177 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 1: I think what you're saying is that physicists are very particular, 178 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 1: they have a certain wave of doing things. But yeah, 179 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:38,199 Speaker 1: we've never really sort of dug into this idea of 180 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:40,959 Speaker 1: dark matter as a particle, like why do we think 181 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:42,959 Speaker 1: it could be a particle or and what do we 182 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:45,800 Speaker 1: know about this potential dark matter particle? Yeah, and there 183 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 1: was a moment in early dark matter thought where people 184 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 1: have this idea, this argument for why dark matter should 185 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 1: be a particle, and it goes by the name of 186 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 1: the whimp miracle. This is where you que in the 187 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 1: angelic sounds, the whim miracle, the dark matter whim miracle. Yeah, 188 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:06,320 Speaker 1: and you know, this is really fun because it tells 189 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 1: you something about human side of doing physics. You know, 190 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 1: it's like somebody was doing calculations and they saw these 191 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 1: numbers come together on the paper that really suggested that 192 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 1: dark matter should be a particle. Almost like these numbers 193 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:21,319 Speaker 1: were a miracle. You know, this this moment when you're 194 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 1: doing even theoretical physics, even when you're exploring the possibilities, 195 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:26,839 Speaker 1: when things just sort of like click together beautifully and 196 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:29,199 Speaker 1: you're like, wait, maybe that's the answer. It works so 197 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:32,079 Speaker 1: well that you almost have like a religious experience as 198 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 1: a physicist. Yeah, and you wonder like, either this is 199 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 1: a coincidence and it's just sort of strange and you know, 200 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:42,439 Speaker 1: almost miraculous, or it's the way things really work. And 201 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 1: so those moments when you feel like maybe you've cracked something, 202 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 1: maybe you've learned something deep about the universe that nobody 203 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 1: else is known. I don't know if it's a religious experience, 204 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:53,599 Speaker 1: but it's definitely a powerful moment. But it is a 205 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 1: pretty interesting concept and it might explain why dark matter 206 00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 1: is a particle. So to be on the program, we'll 207 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:06,840 Speaker 1: be asking the question, and why do physicists think dark 208 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 1: matter is a particle? And not all physicists right to 209 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:12,960 Speaker 1: use a favorite social media response, a lot of physic 210 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 1: this thing that dark matter is a particle. There's a 211 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:17,439 Speaker 1: vocal minority out there, and we'll talk about it that 212 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:19,559 Speaker 1: are pretty sure it's not. But I like how you 213 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 1: phrased it a little earlier. You said the physicists have 214 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 1: dark matter thoughts. They have dark thoughts. That seems very 215 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 1: brudy and cool. Well, you know, you've got to suffer 216 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 1: for your art, right, sometimes you gotta suffer for your physics. Also, 217 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 1: you have to have a little existential ank, you know, 218 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 1: to get the right idea sometimes, or maybe you need 219 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:40,720 Speaker 1: to physics a little to get your suffering. But anyways, 220 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 1: as usually, we were wondering how many people out there 221 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:45,679 Speaker 1: had heard of this interesting concept of the whim miracle, 222 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:47,959 Speaker 1: and so Daniel went out there to ask people on 223 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 1: the internet this question. So thanks everyone who game. We 224 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 1: played along and answered random questions from an Internet physicist. 225 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 1: If you'd like to participate and you're on the verge, 226 00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:59,440 Speaker 1: please just sit down right to me. Send me an 227 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:02,959 Speaker 1: email to questions at Daniel and Jorge dot com. I 228 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:05,199 Speaker 1: know you want to think about it for a second. 229 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 1: What do you think is the whimp miracle? Here's what 230 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:10,679 Speaker 1: people had to say. I have no idea what that is. 231 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 1: I have never heard of that before. But the word 232 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:19,080 Speaker 1: whimp does maybe make me think of something that isn't strong, 233 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: So maybe some sort of force that is not very strong. 234 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 1: I'm not sure. Well, a whimp is a weekly interactive 235 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:32,360 Speaker 1: massive particle, I think, But what a mayor police? I 236 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:35,719 Speaker 1: really don't know. Or could it be that if we 237 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:39,960 Speaker 1: actually find a whimp, it will explain all our physics problems. 238 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 1: That would be a miracle, wouldn't it a jeez? I 239 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 1: don't know. Um, the whimp is, if I remember right, 240 00:11:50,120 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 1: weekly weekly interacting, massive particle, weekly interacting. I feel a 241 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:06,000 Speaker 1: little more confident about the miracle, though I am. I 242 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 1: am not sure. Maybe the miracle is that they can 243 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 1: even exist with such weak interactions. I'm really not sure, 244 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:21,319 Speaker 1: al right. Not a very miraculous response here on the 245 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 1: recognition of a WHIM miracle. No, I think this is 246 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 1: something that's sort of buried inside academic physics, and I 247 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:28,920 Speaker 1: want to bring it out. I don't see people talking 248 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:32,079 Speaker 1: about this a lot online or in popular literature, but 249 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:34,440 Speaker 1: I think it's a really interesting and important idea because 250 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 1: it really has shaped the way we look for dark matter, 251 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:39,160 Speaker 1: the way we think about dark matter, the whole sort 252 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 1: of direction that academic physics has taken in exploring this 253 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 1: largest of all mysteries. No, I can't believe something called 254 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:51,040 Speaker 1: the miracle hasn't caught on with the rest of the population. 255 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:53,680 Speaker 1: I guess. And I just realized that we talk about 256 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 1: what WHIM stands for. It's an acronym. Yeah, exactly, it's 257 00:12:56,640 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 1: an acronym. We've been confusing people for the last ten minutes, right, 258 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:03,480 Speaker 1: so let's explain it. A WHIMP is a weekly interacting 259 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:08,440 Speaker 1: massive particle, so w I m P weekly interacting massive particle. 260 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 1: And what that means is that it's a particle. Right. 261 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 1: It's massive. It's pretty heavy, something like a hundred g 262 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:16,840 Speaker 1: v or like a hundred times the mass of a proton, 263 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:20,320 Speaker 1: and weekly interacting means that it does not have any 264 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 1: very strong interactions weekly there means like feebly interacting, like 265 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 1: not very powerfully interacting. Right, it's like a whimpy particle 266 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:29,719 Speaker 1: out there, right, Like it's out there, but it's not 267 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 1: very strong, doesn't have strong opinions, it doesn't really stand 268 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:34,600 Speaker 1: up for itself a whole lot. That's right, And it's 269 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 1: sort of the standard in the literature for like the 270 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:40,160 Speaker 1: basic theory of dark matter, the vanilla theory, the most 271 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 1: common one, the one that sort of fits all the 272 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:45,439 Speaker 1: constraints and is the simplest explanation we have. Al Right, well, 273 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 1: let's recapt a little bit for people what dark matter 274 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:50,840 Speaker 1: is and how we know it's there and why whimp 275 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 1: is one of the theories for it. Right, So we 276 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 1: know the dark matter is out there because we've seen 277 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 1: its effect on the universe. Right, we can tell that 278 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 1: there's something out there that's creating gravitational forces that we 279 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:06,680 Speaker 1: otherwise cannot explain. When we look at how galaxies rotate, 280 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 1: we see that they're rotating really really fast, but there 281 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:13,319 Speaker 1: isn't enough gravity to hold them together. Something else, invisible, 282 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 1: something that we cannot see, must be in these galaxies 283 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 1: keeping them together. And we look back at the history 284 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:21,240 Speaker 1: of the universe. We can tell that there was a 285 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 1: lot of gravity that shaped the structure, that created like 286 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 1: little gravitational wells from matter to forming for galaxies to 287 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 1: come together. We wouldn't have galaxies in our universe at 288 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 1: this point if we didn't have dark matter sort of 289 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 1: tugging on everything and squeezing it together. And everywhere we 290 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 1: look we see evidence for this kind of matter that's 291 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 1: out there, So we know that it's a matter, We 292 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:44,600 Speaker 1: know that it's a source of gravity. We just don't 293 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 1: know what it is. Yeah, we sort of know it's there, 294 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 1: and we know it has substance to it, right, because 295 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 1: it's sort of like its presence is affecting things in 296 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 1: very large ways, right, like you said, with the galaxies 297 00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 1: and with the Big Bang, And it's not just a 298 00:14:57,400 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 1: little bit of stuff out there, it's a lot, right. 299 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 1: It's like of the matter in the universe, that's right, 300 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 1: it's eighty percent of the matter. So when you look 301 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 1: at a galaxy, you're seeing only the bright bits, right, 302 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:10,520 Speaker 1: You're not seeing most of the galaxy. Most of it 303 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 1: is actually dark matter. And something that throws people off 304 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 1: sometimes it's thinking about where the dark matter is. The 305 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 1: dark matter is mostly in the same places where the 306 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 1: normal matter is because of gravity. Gravity pulls all this 307 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 1: stuff together, so it's not like dark matters out there 308 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 1: in deep space. There's a big halo of it that 309 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 1: surrounds our galaxy. It's sort of like our galaxy is 310 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 1: in a big bubble of dark matter. And while there's 311 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 1: more dark matter out there in the universe than there 312 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 1: is normal matter, it's not as condensed, right, It doesn't 313 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 1: stick together as much, so it's sort of spread out 314 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 1: evenly through our galaxy. So all normal matter clumps into 315 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 1: like stars and planets. Dark matters spread out also between 316 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 1: the stars. So in a random cube of space in 317 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 1: our Solar system there might be more normal matter than 318 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 1: dark matter. But then out there between the stars, this 319 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 1: more dark matter the normal matter. It's like some big 320 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 1: mysterious blob out there and that we can't see because 321 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:02,800 Speaker 1: it's dark and it doesn't reflect or transmit light. But 322 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 1: we know it's there. But there are some things we 323 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 1: sort of know about it, right, Like we know it's 324 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:08,760 Speaker 1: not made out of atoms. That's right. We know it's 325 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 1: not made out of our kind of matter. It's not 326 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 1: built out of atoms. And the way we know that 327 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:15,240 Speaker 1: it is really kind of awesome. It comes from a 328 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 1: story from the very beginning of the universe. You know, atoms, 329 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 1: of course are built out of quarks, and we know 330 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:24,840 Speaker 1: something about how many quarks were made sort of per 331 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 1: cubic light year in the very early universe. What like, 332 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 1: we know how many quarks were made in the Big Bang. Yeah, 333 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 1: we can tell how many quarks were made because the 334 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 1: density of corks determines what elements are formed later, Like 335 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 1: if you have more quirks and you end up with 336 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 1: heavier elements like lithium and helium, and if you have 337 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 1: fewer quirks, you end up with more hydrogen and less 338 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:50,480 Speaker 1: like lithium and helium. So this is called Big Bang nucleosynthesis. 339 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:54,240 Speaker 1: The creation of heavier elements in during the Big Bang 340 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 1: is very sensitive to the density of quarks. So we 341 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 1: can tell essentially how many quarks there were, and then 342 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 1: we can add them up and ask like, well, did 343 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 1: we know where they all went? And you know, we 344 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 1: don't know where every single exact quirk went, but we 345 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:10,440 Speaker 1: can tell that roughly they're all accounted for. And so 346 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:13,879 Speaker 1: dark matter is like, you know, a huge open mystery 347 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 1: in this accounting book of the universe, So quarks definitely 348 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:20,160 Speaker 1: cannot explain it. It's like somebody's going to accounting jail. 349 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 1: Let's hope the universe doesn't get audited. Who's gonna do 350 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:27,320 Speaker 1: the auditing. Maybe that's the miracle. Don't you know that 351 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:29,360 Speaker 1: it's not mad? Of course, because if it was made 352 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:30,840 Speaker 1: out of corks, you would be able to see it, 353 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 1: like quarks interact with light, right exactly, we know a 354 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:36,960 Speaker 1: lot about how this stuff doesn't interact. And quarks have 355 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:40,440 Speaker 1: electric charge or either two thirds charged or negative one 356 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:43,639 Speaker 1: third chart, which means that they reflect photons and they 357 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:46,400 Speaker 1: give off photons and dark matter. You know, people say 358 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 1: it's dark, That doesn't mean it's black. Like if you 359 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:49,920 Speaker 1: had a cloud of dark matter in front of you, 360 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:53,200 Speaker 1: you could see right through it. It's more like invisible matter. 361 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 1: And that's because light passes right through it. And as 362 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:57,920 Speaker 1: you say, quarks interact with matter. But you know that's 363 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:00,200 Speaker 1: not as strong an argument, because you can all will 364 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:03,160 Speaker 1: make things that are transparent out of quarks. Right, glass, 365 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:05,399 Speaker 1: for example, is made out of quarks, but light passes 366 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 1: right through it, and so to say that it doesn't 367 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 1: interact with corks is not as strong an argument as 368 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:12,480 Speaker 1: to say, look, we know where all the quarks were. 369 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 1: There just aren't enough corks to make the dark matter interesting. 370 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 1: Like dark matter could be just like dark crystals out 371 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:21,280 Speaker 1: there or dark sharts of glass. But you know it 372 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:23,680 Speaker 1: can be because you you've accounted for all the courts 373 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:26,400 Speaker 1: that were made in the Big Bang precisely. Otherwise you'd 374 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:29,200 Speaker 1: have to consider maybe it's some weird combination of quirks, 375 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 1: but there just aren't any quarks left in the budget. 376 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 1: Once you've made the planets and the stars and the 377 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:35,720 Speaker 1: galaxies in the dust, you've used up all your quarks. 378 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 1: You know, you have to make dark matter out of 379 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 1: something else. Or maybe they were smuggled from another universe. 380 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 1: That's my new theory. Somebody smuggled a whole bunch of 381 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:49,199 Speaker 1: dark crystals. You're like particle ice, right, show me your 382 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 1: papers corks. Well, it's all around this dark matter, and 383 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:56,199 Speaker 1: it's pulling our galaxy together, keeping things all nice and cozy, 384 00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:59,160 Speaker 1: and it's also keeping things pretty cool in the universe. 385 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:01,200 Speaker 1: So let's not a little bit more about dark matter 386 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:03,719 Speaker 1: and also why we think it could be a particle. 387 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 1: But first, let's take a quick break. All right, we're 388 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:21,920 Speaker 1: talking about dark matter and the whimp miracle, which is 389 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:25,440 Speaker 1: not a food product. It's not like a miracle whimp. 390 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:27,440 Speaker 1: I do not recommend you put it on your tast 391 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 1: but it is an interesting concept, is whip miracle, which 392 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 1: could explain what dark matter is because it's dark matter? 393 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 1: Is this big mystery out there and we know a 394 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 1: few things about dark matter. We talked about it not 395 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:40,680 Speaker 1: being made at Adams, We talked about it being a 396 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:42,680 Speaker 1: sort of a key part of the Big Bang. But 397 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:44,639 Speaker 1: there are a couple of other things we know about it, 398 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:47,880 Speaker 1: right Doniel, Like we know it's not hot. Yeah, exactly. 399 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:50,280 Speaker 1: If you put dark matter up on my hot or 400 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:53,119 Speaker 1: not on the internet, you're definitely gonna get not because 401 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 1: dark matter is quite cold. And some people wonder, you know, 402 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:58,960 Speaker 1: like why is and dark matter just neutrinos? Neutrinos are 403 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 1: not made out of quarks and they don't interact very much, 404 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:02,879 Speaker 1: and we know that there's a lot of them. How 405 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:05,520 Speaker 1: do we know dark matter isn't just a bunch of neutrinos, 406 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:08,960 Speaker 1: like a huge number of neutrinos. And as much as 407 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:12,240 Speaker 1: I like to imagine a universe that's like mostly neutrinos, 408 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:15,400 Speaker 1: Also because neutrinos hardly weigh anything, and so if they're 409 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:17,479 Speaker 1: like eighty percent of the matter in the universe, then 410 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 1: the would just be a ridiculous number of them, you know, 411 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:22,920 Speaker 1: like trillions and trillions and quadrillions of them. But we 412 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:25,440 Speaker 1: know that it's not just neutrinos. And the reason is 413 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:28,919 Speaker 1: that neutrinos have so little masks, so they move really quickly. 414 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:31,880 Speaker 1: Most of the neutrinos in the universe are zipping around everywhere. 415 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:34,120 Speaker 1: And we think that dark matter is cold, that it's 416 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:36,440 Speaker 1: slow moving, and we can tell because the way it 417 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 1: clumps and clusters and falls into these gravitational wells that 418 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 1: shape galaxies. If dark matter was neutrinos, then they would 419 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:44,920 Speaker 1: have spread out a lot more, they wouldn't have tended 420 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 1: to form these clumps, and we wouldn't have the same 421 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:49,879 Speaker 1: sort of shape to the universe and clumpiness and clusters 422 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:51,840 Speaker 1: that we see today. So we're pretty sure dark matter 423 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:55,400 Speaker 1: is not neutrinos. It's some sort of slow moving object. 424 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:59,159 Speaker 1: Couldn't they be slow moving neutrinos like slow neutrinos. It 425 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:01,639 Speaker 1: could be, But what make slow neutrinos? You know, neutrinos 426 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 1: are produced in stars and when they come out there 427 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:07,439 Speaker 1: pretty fast, and neutrinos I have such a small amount 428 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 1: of mass that even very low energy neutrinos are moving 429 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:12,800 Speaker 1: near the speed of light. But if these were made 430 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 1: at the beginning of the universe, maybe they've had time 431 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 1: to slow down. But the beginning the universe was really fast. 432 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:19,919 Speaker 1: And if neutrinos hardly interact, then how are they going 433 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 1: to slow down? Right? Where's all that energy going to go? 434 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:27,119 Speaker 1: Maybe they're just tired, it's been fourteen billion years running around. 435 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 1: Maybe they just want to break, Or maybe neutrinos have 436 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 1: been building up stamina for fourteen billion years, so they're 437 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 1: going to go the distance. They're the underdogs. That's right, 438 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:39,720 Speaker 1: Go neutrinos go. But no, we're sure that they're not 439 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:42,159 Speaker 1: the dark matter. Dark matter is something else. So you know, 440 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:44,880 Speaker 1: we know it's dot atoms, we know it's not neutrinos, 441 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:47,080 Speaker 1: but that doesn't actually tell you what it is, right, 442 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 1: we know a lot about what dark matter isn't none 443 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:52,160 Speaker 1: of this tells you about what dark matter actually is. Yeah, 444 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 1: and so if we talked about in another episode about 445 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 1: how it could be like some sort of weird new 446 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 1: kind of liquid or in weird new kind of sort 447 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:00,440 Speaker 1: of matter, but it seems like the big ends out 448 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:04,680 Speaker 1: there sort of maybe points to dark matter being a particle. Yeah, 449 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:07,480 Speaker 1: there's an argument that was made about twenty years ago 450 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 1: that commenced a lot of people that dark matter was 451 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 1: probably a particle. And you know, we call it the 452 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:15,400 Speaker 1: whip miracle because it's this sort of like funny coincidence 453 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 1: of numbers that fell out of equations that all would 454 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,720 Speaker 1: just work really, really nicely if dark matter was a 455 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:23,680 Speaker 1: weekly interacting massive particle, it would just sort of make 456 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:25,399 Speaker 1: a lot of sense and tie up a lot of 457 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:27,680 Speaker 1: loose ends all the same time. So that's why it 458 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:30,400 Speaker 1: was called the whimp miracle, like it would ma rexously 459 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 1: come in and explain what dark matter is and all 460 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:35,800 Speaker 1: these numbers and evidence that you have, Yeah, exactly. And 461 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 1: the argument is actually really interesting because it takes you 462 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:40,920 Speaker 1: back to the very beginning of universe when dark matter 463 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 1: was made. We know how much dark matter there was 464 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:45,719 Speaker 1: in the very very early universe because we see its 465 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:47,959 Speaker 1: effect on the shape of the universe. We just did 466 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 1: an episode where we talked about the universe ringing with 467 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:54,680 Speaker 1: sound and how those waves propagated through the universe. Those 468 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:57,960 Speaker 1: waves are affected by the dark matter in the universe. 469 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,200 Speaker 1: How much dark matter is. They're creating graphity to create 470 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:03,919 Speaker 1: the situation for those waves to propagate. So we can 471 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:05,760 Speaker 1: tell how much dark matter there was in the very 472 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,400 Speaker 1: early universe, and we can tell how much dark matter 473 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 1: there is today. And there's a lot less today than 474 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:13,240 Speaker 1: there was in the very early universe. Most of it 475 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:16,920 Speaker 1: is gone. What we used to have more dark matter 476 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:18,920 Speaker 1: but then it went away. Yes, we used to have 477 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,119 Speaker 1: a lot more dark matter than we do today. Like 478 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,159 Speaker 1: the density of dark matter in the universe now is 479 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 1: much lower than it was early on. Well, I guess 480 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 1: maybe stepping back first, you said dark matter was made 481 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:31,680 Speaker 1: during the Big Bang. That's pretty cool. Like, I guess 482 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 1: things were just like mostly energy at the very very beginning, 483 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,480 Speaker 1: and then it became dark matter. Just like it, you know, 484 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:41,399 Speaker 1: corks and other regular matter came to suddenly pop into existence. 485 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:43,960 Speaker 1: Dark matter also popped into existence. Yeah, you have this 486 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:47,119 Speaker 1: incredible moment where the universe is so hot and so 487 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 1: dense that all the fields have so much energy in 488 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:52,600 Speaker 1: them that doesn't even really make sense to talk about 489 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:55,679 Speaker 1: individual particles. You know, it's like looking at the ocean 490 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,479 Speaker 1: and asking how many drops there are like drops are 491 00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:00,639 Speaker 1: not the right way to talk about oceans. So in 492 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 1: the very early universe, there was so much energy in 493 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 1: all the quantum fields that like particles aren't even really 494 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,360 Speaker 1: a reasonable thing to talk about. But then as things 495 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:11,440 Speaker 1: cooled right and things got more dilute, and as the 496 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 1: Big Bang went on, then there was a moment when 497 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:16,200 Speaker 1: these particles sort of like became the way to think 498 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:18,440 Speaker 1: about the universe, you know, And all this touches on 499 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:20,440 Speaker 1: something I think is really interesting, which is, like, what 500 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:23,720 Speaker 1: is the story we're telling about the universe? In every 501 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,159 Speaker 1: case we're like thinking about this in human terms and 502 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 1: trying to find the right language to use to describe 503 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,399 Speaker 1: the universe. None of this is like fundamentally true. If 504 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:33,919 Speaker 1: we met aliens, they would be very confused by our 505 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 1: description of the universe. And this is how we think 506 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 1: about it. You think about the very early universe in 507 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:40,680 Speaker 1: terms of like fields filled with energy, and then later 508 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 1: on it's reasonable to talk about it in terms of particles. 509 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:46,359 Speaker 1: And when that happened, when the transition happened, from like 510 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 1: just fields filled with energy, then the energy spread out 511 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 1: into all the different fields and made lots of different 512 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,760 Speaker 1: kinds of particles, corks and electrons and neutrinos, and also 513 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 1: dark matter. So before like dark matter and regular matter, 514 00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 1: we're all just one kind of then it's sort of 515 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 1: split into dark matter and regular matter. Yeah, you can 516 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 1: think about it that way. And in the very early 517 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,440 Speaker 1: universe a lot of dark matter was made. And you know, 518 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:09,399 Speaker 1: we don't know again what dark matter is or what 519 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:11,640 Speaker 1: that field is, but we can measure how much there 520 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:14,680 Speaker 1: was because we see the evidence in the cosmic marcrowave 521 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:17,200 Speaker 1: background and in the structure of the universe. So where 522 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,400 Speaker 1: did all that dark matter go? Well, we're not sure. 523 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 1: You know, it might have snuck back out into the 524 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 1: other universe that I got smuggled in from, for example, 525 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:27,400 Speaker 1: re exported. But we think the theory is that dark 526 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:30,920 Speaker 1: matter has some way to interact with itself, right, Like, 527 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:33,520 Speaker 1: what can dark matter do? We know that it feels gravity, 528 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,159 Speaker 1: we've never seen it have any other force. We've never 529 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 1: seen it interact with electromagnetism, or with the nuclear weak force, 530 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:42,399 Speaker 1: or with a strong force. But that doesn't mean there 531 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 1: isn't some other force out there that dark matter particles 532 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,920 Speaker 1: feel some dark force. So imagine this some force where 533 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,280 Speaker 1: like if two dark matter particles bump into each other, 534 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:53,920 Speaker 1: they can annihilate. For example, maybe have a dark matter 535 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:57,199 Speaker 1: particle and in its antiparticle and they annihilate and they 536 00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:00,160 Speaker 1: can turn into a photon or some other particle which 537 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,840 Speaker 1: can then turn into regular matter. So we have more 538 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 1: regular matter than we had at the very beginning of 539 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 1: the universe and less dark matter. So we think that 540 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,720 Speaker 1: some of it converted through this process from dark matter 541 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,639 Speaker 1: to regular matter. Oh, I see, because if you had 542 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:16,120 Speaker 1: more dark matter before, the only way it can sort 543 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:19,639 Speaker 1: of transform into something else is through some sort of 544 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,240 Speaker 1: interaction with itself, right, because it kind of interact with 545 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,720 Speaker 1: anything else. So it must have like, you know, two 546 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:29,440 Speaker 1: random bits of dark matter was crashing each other, turned 547 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 1: into energy and then converted into regular matter exactly, And 548 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 1: that would be like a portal for converting dark matter 549 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 1: into regular matter. There'd be some kind of interaction there 550 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:41,520 Speaker 1: that we don't know about yet, some new dark force. 551 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 1: So now we're talking about a new kind of matter 552 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 1: and a new kind of force in the universe. But 553 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:48,960 Speaker 1: you know where else could the dark matter have gone? 554 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 1: Somebody needs to restore balance in the force and the 555 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 1: balance between light and dark. That's right, This all came 556 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:57,879 Speaker 1: out of the writing of young George Lucas. He was 557 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:01,480 Speaker 1: a physicist before he was a toymaker. Yeah, the whip 558 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,080 Speaker 1: Miracle was actually his first name for Star Wars, actually 559 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,639 Speaker 1: star Whimps. Yes, it fit the logo just as well, 560 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,240 Speaker 1: but then he thought war would sell more. Yeah, he 561 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:12,399 Speaker 1: was gonna call them whimps instead of Jedies, but it 562 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:14,800 Speaker 1: didn't work well in focus groups anyway. So this is 563 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 1: something you can tell about that you don't just have 564 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:18,479 Speaker 1: to say, well, there must be some force. You can 565 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:21,159 Speaker 1: figure out how strong that force has to be, like 566 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 1: how powerful is that force? How strong is that interaction? 567 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:26,280 Speaker 1: Because you know how much stuff there was in the 568 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:28,760 Speaker 1: early universe, you know how much of it got converted 569 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:31,359 Speaker 1: into stuff now, and you know how much time there was. 570 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:33,879 Speaker 1: And you could also play games like, well, you know, 571 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 1: below a certain density, dark matter won't find itself anymore, 572 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 1: it won't bang into itself to cause these interactions. So 573 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:42,480 Speaker 1: you put in a certain number for how strong this 574 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,120 Speaker 1: interaction is, and it tells you like how the dark 575 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,160 Speaker 1: matter turns into normal matter, like how many dark matter 576 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,920 Speaker 1: particles you should have per cubic light year today? But 577 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 1: I guess you know here you're assuming that dark matter 578 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:56,800 Speaker 1: is a particle. So, like, you know, starting with that, 579 00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:58,960 Speaker 1: you assume that dark matter is a particle and that 580 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:02,159 Speaker 1: these particles interact with themselves. And I think you're saying that, 581 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:03,600 Speaker 1: you know, if you sort of do all of the 582 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 1: accounting about where all that energy and mass go, then 583 00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:10,639 Speaker 1: you get a certain number for like the density of 584 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:14,440 Speaker 1: dark matter, yeah, the number of dark matter particles left over. 585 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:17,720 Speaker 1: And so if, for example, you say, well, this interaction 586 00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:20,439 Speaker 1: is very very strong, it's very likely to happen, then 587 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:22,560 Speaker 1: you end up with less dark matter today. And if 588 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:24,680 Speaker 1: you say, oh, well this interaction is very very super 589 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,440 Speaker 1: duper weak, you end up with more dark matter left today, 590 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 1: because that interaction isn't as good at turning dark matter 591 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,280 Speaker 1: into normal matter. So then you can ask the question, well, 592 00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:35,960 Speaker 1: what number d you need to get the dark matter 593 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:38,320 Speaker 1: we see today, And so you can figure out what 594 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,480 Speaker 1: that number is, and when you do that calculation, you 595 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:45,320 Speaker 1: get a number, and that number is almost exactly the same. 596 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 1: Strength is our favorite force, the weak interaction. And so 597 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:52,440 Speaker 1: people like, wait a second, that's interesting. Like you know, 598 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,240 Speaker 1: it's like if I, you know, saw a license plate 599 00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:57,000 Speaker 1: on the getaway car and then I went over to 600 00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:58,960 Speaker 1: your house for dinner and you had the same license plate. 601 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 1: I'm like, in just in coincidence, Oh, I see. It's like, 602 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:05,120 Speaker 1: you know, there's dark matter missing in the universe, so 603 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 1: it must be sort of volatile in some way, right, 604 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,800 Speaker 1: Like it must be. It must attempt to evaporate almost 605 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 1: in a way. And if you sort of calculate how 606 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:16,920 Speaker 1: volatile it is, you get almost the same volatility kind 607 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,600 Speaker 1: of of the what we call the weak force, which 608 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:21,920 Speaker 1: is one of the four fundamental forces exactly, and we 609 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:24,320 Speaker 1: only have a few of these fundamental forces, and the 610 00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 1: weak force is kind of weird, right, It's really strangely weak. 611 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 1: It's not like a you know, a basic simple force 612 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,360 Speaker 1: that has a strength. We understand. It's a very strange 613 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 1: weak force. And so to find out that, in order 614 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 1: to explain how much dark matter has disappeared from the universe, 615 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,800 Speaker 1: you need a force with basically exactly the same strength. 616 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 1: That's one of the forces we already have. You're like, 617 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:46,239 Speaker 1: that's an interesting clue. So then you thought, all right, 618 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 1: we'll assume that dark matter is a particle, and so 619 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 1: it needs to interact through some kind of force. And hey, 620 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,120 Speaker 1: the force it seems to be interacting with is in 621 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:56,520 Speaker 1: the same like range as the weak force. So then 622 00:29:56,560 --> 00:30:00,280 Speaker 1: you thought, maybe this particle that dark matter is is 623 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:04,240 Speaker 1: a weakly interacting particle exactly. And then you get to 624 00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 1: the massive parts. That's only like half of the whip miracle. 625 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:10,480 Speaker 1: The other half is the mass. Because this interaction strength 626 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:12,080 Speaker 1: the one that tells you, like how much dark matter 627 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 1: is disappearing, That just tells you like how many dark 628 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:18,000 Speaker 1: matter particles are left over, like per cubic volume of 629 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:20,040 Speaker 1: the universe. Now you need to pick a mass right, 630 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 1: like how massive is this particle? And if you pick 631 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,240 Speaker 1: a hundred g v, you know, a hundred times the 632 00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 1: mass of the proton, which is like how much mass 633 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,960 Speaker 1: all the weak particles have, the W, the z, the Higgs, 634 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:34,440 Speaker 1: Then you get exactly the right mass density for the universe. 635 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:38,040 Speaker 1: So the interaction strength gives you the right number density, 636 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:41,760 Speaker 1: like how many of these particles there are per cubic volume. 637 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 1: And then if you pick the weak scale mass, you 638 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:47,040 Speaker 1: get exactly the right mass density. So it's like two 639 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,600 Speaker 1: miracles that line up perfectly. Interesting. It's like, according to 640 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:54,640 Speaker 1: your calculations, a particle that is heavy and interact with 641 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:59,000 Speaker 1: the weak force would fit the evidence of dark matter perfectly. Yeah, 642 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,480 Speaker 1: and you need both of the things to explain it. Like, 643 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:05,000 Speaker 1: if we had less dark matter today, then you need 644 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,480 Speaker 1: a higher cross section or you need a smaller mass. 645 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:10,440 Speaker 1: If we had more dark matter in our universe today, 646 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 1: you need a lower cross section or a higher mass. 647 00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 1: So we just happen to have the right amount of 648 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:18,240 Speaker 1: dark matter left over in our universe that could be 649 00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 1: explained by a particle with the weak scale mass interacting 650 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,840 Speaker 1: at the weak scale interaction strength. Isn't that assuming you 651 00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:28,720 Speaker 1: know kind of what happened in the Big Bang. Yeah, 652 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:30,840 Speaker 1: that's assuming that we know how much dark matter was 653 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:33,440 Speaker 1: made in the very early universe. But we're pretty sure 654 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:35,880 Speaker 1: about that. That doesn't require you to know anything about 655 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:38,320 Speaker 1: whether it's a particle or not. That's just from looking 656 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,400 Speaker 1: at its gravitational effects on things in their early universe, 657 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:45,480 Speaker 1: the cosmic microwy background, these very on acoustic costellations, the 658 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:48,560 Speaker 1: whole structure of the universe. So that's an independent measurement 659 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:50,920 Speaker 1: how much dark matter there was in the early universe. 660 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:53,520 Speaker 1: But this whole thing is a hypothesis, is saying, let's 661 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,320 Speaker 1: see if it works out if you assume dark matter 662 00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:58,800 Speaker 1: as a particle, Like can we make this work? You 663 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,200 Speaker 1: know again, this is not wrecked evidence that it must 664 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:03,520 Speaker 1: be a particle. It's like, let's try it out and 665 00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:05,560 Speaker 1: see if it fits. And then it like clicks in 666 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:07,560 Speaker 1: the place perfectly. And then it clicks in the place 667 00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:11,600 Speaker 1: perfectly over there. You're like, WHOA, that seems compelling. I 668 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:13,880 Speaker 1: see you had like this big mystery and suddenly you 669 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 1: have clues that tell you like, hey, this kind of particle, 670 00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:21,800 Speaker 1: a weekly interacting massive particle whimp would fit just the 671 00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:23,680 Speaker 1: bill for what we see. And that's why you called 672 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,840 Speaker 1: it a miracle. Yeah, because in two ways it just 673 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:29,320 Speaker 1: happened to fit the bill. And so people have this 674 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:32,040 Speaker 1: moment they're like wow, they're like got chills, you know, 675 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:36,320 Speaker 1: like the universe is talking to us, you know, like 676 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:38,600 Speaker 1: they had a religious experience, Like I figured it out. 677 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,840 Speaker 1: I I have godlike powers to figure this out. Do 678 00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:44,120 Speaker 1: you think it's a religious experience? Every time you get chills, 679 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:46,000 Speaker 1: like if your kids turn on the A C too strongly, 680 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:49,240 Speaker 1: you're like, oh, I feel my faith coming back. I 681 00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 1: definitely do some cursing, for sure, but don't smite anybody. 682 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:56,160 Speaker 1: Or but yeah, there is a moment there where you 683 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,400 Speaker 1: feel like you have an insight or you've seen something 684 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,680 Speaker 1: clearly which used to be confusing, and so you know, 685 00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:04,880 Speaker 1: maybe you're a spiritual person or not, but like that 686 00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,400 Speaker 1: feels like maybe you've understood something. I think it's just 687 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:09,520 Speaker 1: like when you're cracking a case. You know, when you 688 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,320 Speaker 1: find a clue and it points exactly the direction that 689 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:14,320 Speaker 1: makes sense to you, you find another clue that confirms 690 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:16,040 Speaker 1: and and you're like, Okay, this is all coming together. 691 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:18,760 Speaker 1: Mm I see. So what you call the whip miracle 692 00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:23,200 Speaker 1: is more like, hey, it's a miracle we figured it out. Yeah, 693 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:26,000 Speaker 1: it's a miracle that these numbers happen to be exactly 694 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:29,520 Speaker 1: what you would need for this particle to explain it. 695 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,560 Speaker 1: And you know, because whimps are a very very common 696 00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:36,760 Speaker 1: thing in particle theories, like coming from the other direction. 697 00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,320 Speaker 1: We have all these theories about what other particles might 698 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:41,280 Speaker 1: be out there, and one of the most common is 699 00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:44,480 Speaker 1: this thing called supersymmetry, which is this theory that there 700 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:47,080 Speaker 1: are all these other particles out there, copies of the 701 00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:50,120 Speaker 1: particles that we know and love, And in all of 702 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:53,520 Speaker 1: those theories they predict a particle just like this, they 703 00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:56,720 Speaker 1: predict a whimp. A particle around a hundred giga electron 704 00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:59,800 Speaker 1: volts that interacts about this strong and so that was 705 00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 1: an exciting moment. All right. So you had this big 706 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:04,680 Speaker 1: mystery of dark matter. You were looking for a solution, 707 00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:07,640 Speaker 1: you were stumped, and then suddenly some people figured out 708 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:10,680 Speaker 1: that this idea of a whimp, a weekly interacting massive particle, 709 00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:13,840 Speaker 1: is sort of like a miracle. It would totally describe 710 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,359 Speaker 1: what dark matter is. And so let's get into whether 711 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:18,520 Speaker 1: or not the whimp is a miracle and whether it 712 00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,280 Speaker 1: does explain dark matter. That's a big mystery in itself. 713 00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:36,759 Speaker 1: But first let's take a quick break. All right. We're 714 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:39,839 Speaker 1: talking about miracle whimp, which is I'm a different part 715 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,799 Speaker 1: of the grocery store as miracle whip. That's right. It's 716 00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:48,040 Speaker 1: more than digestive section, right, Digestive aids to supplement for 717 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:51,240 Speaker 1: your dark matter so that it's not as as cold, 718 00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:53,920 Speaker 1: so it moves a little faster. Yeah, heat have your 719 00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:56,160 Speaker 1: dark matter, get it moving, all right. So we have 720 00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:59,520 Speaker 1: this apparently miraculous theory about dark matter. It could be 721 00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:02,200 Speaker 1: a weak the interacting massive particle, meaning like a heavy 722 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,800 Speaker 1: kind of particle that's slow, that's cool, but that interacts 723 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:09,040 Speaker 1: with itself and maybe other things through the weak force, 724 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:11,239 Speaker 1: which is one of the fundamental forces. Yeah, and so 725 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:14,080 Speaker 1: this became like the standard bearer, you know, all the 726 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:16,960 Speaker 1: ideas of what dark matter could be, particles, not particles, 727 00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:20,239 Speaker 1: weird crazy stuff, dark chocolate floating out in space. This 728 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,319 Speaker 1: became like the favorite theory. And you know, the way 729 00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:26,040 Speaker 1: physics works is you have like usually a mainstream idea 730 00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:28,000 Speaker 1: and then you get the you know, the fringe ideas 731 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:30,440 Speaker 1: of other people working on different things that aren't really 732 00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:33,120 Speaker 1: like the mainstream. But this very rapidly sort of took 733 00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:36,480 Speaker 1: over the mainstream of physics, and people just were like assuming, 734 00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:38,400 Speaker 1: all right, this is what dark matter is, or like, 735 00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:41,320 Speaker 1: we don't know necessarily what that it's this, but this 736 00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,520 Speaker 1: is a good candidate. So it makes sense to invest 737 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:46,480 Speaker 1: in like experiments that can look for this and to 738 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:50,279 Speaker 1: build complicated theories that include this. And so a lot 739 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,760 Speaker 1: of work was done because of this wid miracle assuming 740 00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 1: that dark matter was a whim because it's such a 741 00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:59,920 Speaker 1: compelling theory, right, like it miraculously fits all the all 742 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,279 Speaker 1: the evidence we have about dark matter. It did at 743 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:06,440 Speaker 1: least it did. Okay, there's a whimp plot to us here, 744 00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:08,600 Speaker 1: so I guess that was a leading theory, and so 745 00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 1: people went out there sort of looking for dark matter, 746 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:13,719 Speaker 1: assuming that it interacted with the weak force, and so 747 00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:17,120 Speaker 1: do design experiments kind of along those lines. Yeah, the 748 00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:20,879 Speaker 1: dominant experiments looking for dark matter as a particle are 749 00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:26,200 Speaker 1: these big tanks of zenon underground or very very cold semiconductors, 750 00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:28,640 Speaker 1: and they're all designed to look for a particle that's 751 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:31,920 Speaker 1: around a hundred g ev and interacts at the strength 752 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,759 Speaker 1: of the weak force and would like bump into a 753 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:39,080 Speaker 1: nucleus of zenon or nucleus of one of these semiconductors 754 00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:41,160 Speaker 1: and give you a little signal. So they're like out 755 00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:44,120 Speaker 1: there trying to catch this wind of dark matter that 756 00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:47,240 Speaker 1: they thought the Earth was moving through, this wind of whimps. 757 00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:49,360 Speaker 1: That's a George R. R. Martin book. I think the 758 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:53,440 Speaker 1: song of whimps, the song of particles, a song of 759 00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:56,759 Speaker 1: particles and quarks, the winds of whimper. Yeah. I think 760 00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,560 Speaker 1: we've had episodes where we talk about these dark matter 761 00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:02,920 Speaker 1: hunt experiments, and yeah, they involved these giant tanks of 762 00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:05,719 Speaker 1: cool liquid and you kind of hope that the dark 763 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:09,200 Speaker 1: matter cloud that the Earth is passing through somehow knocks 764 00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,400 Speaker 1: some of those cold gas atoms around. That's right, And 765 00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:15,560 Speaker 1: we don't know that dark matter has any interactions at all, 766 00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:17,839 Speaker 1: you know. The only evidence we have that dark matter 767 00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:20,480 Speaker 1: has some interactions is this argument that a bunch of 768 00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:22,920 Speaker 1: it has disappeared since the real universe, and so there 769 00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,759 Speaker 1: must be some interaction there if it's a particle, to 770 00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:28,640 Speaker 1: convert it into normal matter. And so that was the 771 00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:30,919 Speaker 1: basis for looking for these things and said, well, let's 772 00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:33,759 Speaker 1: try to create a big tank of normal matter and 773 00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:35,919 Speaker 1: hope that dark matter and bumps into it. That uses 774 00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:39,239 Speaker 1: that same interaction that allows it to annihilate should also 775 00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:42,960 Speaker 1: allow it to bump into normal matter very very occasionally. Right. 776 00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:45,200 Speaker 1: It's not something like you're gonna see all the time. 777 00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:48,080 Speaker 1: It's a very weak interaction. So you need a huge 778 00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:50,640 Speaker 1: tank of stuff, you need to wait years, and when 779 00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:53,200 Speaker 1: it bumps into the gas atom or particle, they'll create 780 00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:55,880 Speaker 1: a little electron that you then sort of measure and 781 00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:58,720 Speaker 1: you can say, hey, something bumped into my xenon gas. 782 00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:01,360 Speaker 1: It must be dark matter. Yeah. It's sort of like 783 00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:05,680 Speaker 1: putting a camera underground for five years and expecting, you know, 784 00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:08,440 Speaker 1: just black images and then seeing a flash of light 785 00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:10,600 Speaker 1: and you're like, oh, well, something was here, and we 786 00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:13,000 Speaker 1: try to shield it from everything else, from muance and 787 00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:15,000 Speaker 1: from radio active sources in the rock, and they do 788 00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:18,080 Speaker 1: really careful job, like these are really tour to force 789 00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:20,880 Speaker 1: experiments to try to make this liquid super quiet, so 790 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,399 Speaker 1: if you do see something, you're pretty sure it could 791 00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:25,279 Speaker 1: be dark matter. And so we have episodes where you 792 00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:27,759 Speaker 1: sort of take a deep dive into these Xenon experiments. 793 00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:29,880 Speaker 1: But they they've been sort of going around for a 794 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:34,640 Speaker 1: while and what have they found since they haven't found anything, unfortunately, 795 00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:36,880 Speaker 1: So they've been looking for this stuff, and you know, 796 00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:39,239 Speaker 1: at first they're developed in the technology and then making 797 00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:40,920 Speaker 1: them bigger and bigger, and they were at the point 798 00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:43,279 Speaker 1: where they didn't expect to see it like they would 799 00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:45,879 Speaker 1: have seen it if it happened to interact much more 800 00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:48,560 Speaker 1: strongly than a whimp, if it happened to have some 801 00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:51,160 Speaker 1: big surprise, they would have seen it the first experiments. 802 00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:53,800 Speaker 1: But now these experiments are bigger and they've been running longer, 803 00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:56,880 Speaker 1: and it's to the point where if the whimp existed 804 00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:59,600 Speaker 1: and it did have this kind of interaction we're talking 805 00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:02,040 Speaker 1: about the one that satisfies the whim miracle. We should 806 00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:05,320 Speaker 1: have seen it already. So these experiments that basically ruled 807 00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:07,960 Speaker 1: out the kind of particle that would perfectly satisfy the 808 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:11,319 Speaker 1: Whip miracle, like you've given up basically, Like people were 809 00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:13,520 Speaker 1: waiting around to see if they found it and nothing, 810 00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:17,040 Speaker 1: and so you're hanging up your coat. We're not turning 811 00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:19,600 Speaker 1: off the lights, and you know, we're not like shut 812 00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:22,160 Speaker 1: things down and you know, mothballing everything and going home 813 00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:24,440 Speaker 1: to find new careers as cartoonists or something. I mean, 814 00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:28,279 Speaker 1: that's bonkers. Yeah, that please don't do that yet. There 815 00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:30,440 Speaker 1: are plenty of cartoons already. Know. It just means that, 816 00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:32,960 Speaker 1: you know, the our simplest idea that there was one 817 00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:35,120 Speaker 1: particle to explain all the dark matter and had a 818 00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:38,480 Speaker 1: weak interaction, that idea doesn't work anymore. So we can 819 00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:40,919 Speaker 1: modify the idea. We can try to keep the whip 820 00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:43,480 Speaker 1: miracle by adjusting it a little bit. You know, we 821 00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:46,200 Speaker 1: can find reasons why we wouldn't have seen it in 822 00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:49,359 Speaker 1: these experiments. Maybe it only interacts with other kinds of matter, 823 00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:51,520 Speaker 1: or we could say maybe dark matter is actually a 824 00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:54,360 Speaker 1: few different kinds of things and they have like different 825 00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:57,040 Speaker 1: interaction rates, and it's sort of just like all adds 826 00:39:57,160 --> 00:39:59,000 Speaker 1: up to give us the explanation we have from the 827 00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:01,480 Speaker 1: early universe. So people are being a bit more creative 828 00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:04,240 Speaker 1: now in trying to find ways to keep the whimp 829 00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:07,600 Speaker 1: and also avoid these experimental constraints. I guess I'm a 830 00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:09,520 Speaker 1: little confused because I feel like it was only recently 831 00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:12,120 Speaker 1: where we talked about some of these dark matter experiments. 832 00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:14,880 Speaker 1: Are you saying that sort of in very recent times 833 00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:18,279 Speaker 1: people have sort of concluded now that it's not a whimp. Yeah, 834 00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:20,480 Speaker 1: these results are pretty recent. You know. People have been 835 00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:23,040 Speaker 1: building up and building up and building up and thinking like, okay, 836 00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:25,840 Speaker 1: around twenty twenties and when we're gonna have sensitivity to 837 00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:29,080 Speaker 1: like the whim theory, you know, And now we've seen 838 00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:31,839 Speaker 1: those results, and it seems pretty clear it's not a whimp. 839 00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:33,680 Speaker 1: You know, we can keep looking for it. It might 840 00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:37,680 Speaker 1: be something that interacts more weakly than the weak force. 841 00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:41,160 Speaker 1: Might be like a very super weakly interacting massive particle 842 00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:44,000 Speaker 1: that wouldn't satisfy the whim miracle. You need some other 843 00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:46,719 Speaker 1: way to explain why you didn't get left over with 844 00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:49,480 Speaker 1: extra dark matter in the universe if that interaction is 845 00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:51,719 Speaker 1: so weak. But you know, their physicists so they got 846 00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:53,840 Speaker 1: creative ideas to explain it. You know, none of the 847 00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,640 Speaker 1: ideas are clicked together quite as nicely as the Wi Miracle. 848 00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:59,359 Speaker 1: But the Wi Miracle didn't turn out to be right, right, 849 00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:03,040 Speaker 1: Maybe it's light miracle whim left fat all right, So 850 00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:05,520 Speaker 1: then if it's not a whimp, like if we're pretty 851 00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:07,480 Speaker 1: sure it's not the whimp we thought it was, the 852 00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:09,800 Speaker 1: miracle we thought it was, then what are some of 853 00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:12,879 Speaker 1: these things that it could still be. Yeah, well, there's 854 00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:14,719 Speaker 1: still lots of other fun theories of dark matter. And 855 00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:17,680 Speaker 1: there's sort of been two categories. One is other particles, 856 00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:20,520 Speaker 1: and we talked, for example, about whether dark matter is 857 00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:23,879 Speaker 1: an axon. An axon is a really weird particles sort 858 00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:27,160 Speaker 1: of like a heavy photon and interacts very differently than 859 00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:29,480 Speaker 1: a whimp, and their experiments out there looking for that, 860 00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:33,120 Speaker 1: so sort of a very different category of possibility for particles. 861 00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:36,560 Speaker 1: It's also possible that dark matter isn't a particle at all. 862 00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:39,960 Speaker 1: You know, this entire concept, this whole framing of the 863 00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:43,080 Speaker 1: question assumes that the rest of the universe is similar 864 00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:44,759 Speaker 1: to the part of the universe we've been studying for 865 00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:47,480 Speaker 1: all these years, that regular matter is like a good 866 00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:51,000 Speaker 1: pattern to start with, but it might not be. Remember, 867 00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:54,319 Speaker 1: regular matter is unusual in the universe, so extrapolating from 868 00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:57,360 Speaker 1: it to the rest of the universe seems not so justified. 869 00:41:57,440 --> 00:41:59,600 Speaker 1: It could be that the rest of the universe, the 870 00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:02,279 Speaker 1: other matter is something very weird and different. Could not 871 00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:05,560 Speaker 1: necessarily even be a particle, right, It could be not matters, 872 00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:09,040 Speaker 1: So it could be just like dark stuff or dark things. Yeah, 873 00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:12,000 Speaker 1: there are crazy ideas, you know, things called un particles 874 00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:15,200 Speaker 1: where the particles don't have a specific mass, and this 875 00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:17,719 Speaker 1: is sort of like weird continuum of stuff where the 876 00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:20,160 Speaker 1: more you zoom into it, it doesn't resolve into tiny 877 00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:22,560 Speaker 1: little bits. It just like looks the same no matter 878 00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:24,920 Speaker 1: how much you zoom into it, which would be really 879 00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:27,160 Speaker 1: weird and awesome. And then we've talked to the podcast 880 00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:29,239 Speaker 1: about one of my favorite theories that maybe dark matter 881 00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:32,399 Speaker 1: is a huge number of tiny black holes left over 882 00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:35,600 Speaker 1: from the Big Bang. We call them primordial black holes. 883 00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:38,120 Speaker 1: That theory is under stress a little bit because we've 884 00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:40,239 Speaker 1: looked for those and we haven't seen them, and there's 885 00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:42,719 Speaker 1: ways that they can evade our telescopes. But you know, 886 00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:45,279 Speaker 1: it's sort of less popular theory these days. But the 887 00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:47,640 Speaker 1: point is we just really don't know. You know, our 888 00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:50,680 Speaker 1: best theory, our best understanding, our best hypothesis that all 889 00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:53,520 Speaker 1: clicked together nicely, that seems so promising, turned out to 890 00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:56,120 Speaker 1: not be the theory of nature. It wasn't a miracle. 891 00:42:56,200 --> 00:43:00,719 Speaker 1: You debunked America. Physicists once again kill the magic of 892 00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:03,399 Speaker 1: the universe, prove there are no miracles in this world. 893 00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:08,439 Speaker 1: That's right, downers since the hundreds. Or like you said, 894 00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:10,919 Speaker 1: maybe it is a whim, but it's like a modified whim, 895 00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:13,600 Speaker 1: right like, maybe it's a super a swimp, a super 896 00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:17,440 Speaker 1: weekly interacting massive particle, or like a weekly interacting super 897 00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:23,080 Speaker 1: massive particle with some Yeah, all those possibilities is still 898 00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:25,400 Speaker 1: out there either way. It's all a big mystery and 899 00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:27,239 Speaker 1: people are still looking for it. I guess kudo is 900 00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:29,960 Speaker 1: still to those people who built those experiments and look 901 00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:31,880 Speaker 1: for it, right Like, that's an important way to do 902 00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:34,440 Speaker 1: progress in science. Absolutely it is. So there's a lot 903 00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:37,080 Speaker 1: of criticism, you know, people out there say it's ridiculous 904 00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:39,520 Speaker 1: that we spent tens of millions of dollars on this 905 00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:43,600 Speaker 1: one idea for dark matter that some people never thought 906 00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:46,040 Speaker 1: was very convincing. After all, you know, and so you 907 00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:49,000 Speaker 1: see criticism of this online a lot of like I 908 00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:51,000 Speaker 1: told you so, Yeah, a lot of I told you 909 00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:54,000 Speaker 1: those you know, And but you never know with research, right, 910 00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:56,480 Speaker 1: you'd never know are you going to discover something amazing 911 00:43:56,960 --> 00:43:59,480 Speaker 1: or are you gonna gonna see nothing? And that's what 912 00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:03,120 Speaker 1: explorer issue is. That's what research is. Fundamentally, it's exploration. 913 00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:04,960 Speaker 1: If you knew the answers in advance, it wouldn't be 914 00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:07,680 Speaker 1: as exciting to make the discoveries. There's no pending on 915 00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:11,279 Speaker 1: the bag. That's just wagging out the fingers. All right, Well, 916 00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:13,640 Speaker 1: I guess that's kind of what happens sometimes in signs. 917 00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:15,440 Speaker 1: Sometimes you come up with an idea that seems to 918 00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:18,879 Speaker 1: fit perfectly, it seems miraculous. Then you're pretty sure it's 919 00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:21,680 Speaker 1: going to explain things. But the universe has other ideas. 920 00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:24,400 Speaker 1: The universe always has a plot twist, The universe always 921 00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:26,680 Speaker 1: has something out there to surprise us. And it's not 922 00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:29,680 Speaker 1: like the universe was designed to surprise us. I think 923 00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:32,360 Speaker 1: that's the issue, that it wasn't designed for us. That 924 00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:35,040 Speaker 1: we have to adapt our minds to the reality of 925 00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:37,439 Speaker 1: the universe, and the way we think the universe works 926 00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:39,960 Speaker 1: is very different from the way it actually does, and 927 00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:42,640 Speaker 1: so it's a continual readjustment which leads for lots of 928 00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:45,600 Speaker 1: exciting surprises and plot twists. I guess maybe that is 929 00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:47,879 Speaker 1: the miracle of the universe. The fact that it's full 930 00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:51,239 Speaker 1: of surprises and keeps us on our toes and then 931 00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:53,840 Speaker 1: we can understand any of it at all, frankly, is 932 00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:55,719 Speaker 1: amazing to me. Or that we can talk about it 933 00:44:55,760 --> 00:45:00,560 Speaker 1: for an hour twice a week, four hundreds of episodes, 934 00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:03,080 Speaker 1: that's the real miracle. The fact that you're here listening 935 00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:06,000 Speaker 1: to us. Yeah, thanks everybody for supporting us on this journey. 936 00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:09,040 Speaker 1: We hope you enjoyed that. Thanks for joining us, See 937 00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:19,280 Speaker 1: you next time. Thanks for listening, and remember that Daniel 938 00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:21,800 Speaker 1: and Jorge explained. The Universe is a production of I 939 00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:25,440 Speaker 1: Heart Radio or more podcast For my heart Radio, visit 940 00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:28,960 Speaker 1: the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 941 00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:30,600 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.