Speaker 1: My name is Veda Samarne, and I was the script
Speaker 1: supervisor on The Office. Welcome, welcome, one and all to
Speaker 1: the Office deep Dive. It is nice to be back
Speaker 1: with you all on this fine Tuesday or whatever day
Speaker 1: you happen to be listening. I am your host, Brian Baumgartner.
Speaker 1: Today we're wrapping up our little mini deep dive on
Speaker 1: the women of the Office with a woman who was
Speaker 1: truly the glue of our show. She kept everything together,
Speaker 1: our script supervisor, Veda somarn. This is someone I respect
Speaker 1: and admire so much. Okay, she was with us on
Speaker 1: set every single day making sure that we did our
Speaker 1: jobs and set our lines and that the director, the
Speaker 1: editor and the writers all got what they needed to
Speaker 1: make a great show as well. And so how was
Speaker 1: she repaid? Well, she was repaid by the cast with
Speaker 1: groans with eye rolls, because when we were having fun
Speaker 1: shooting on set, when Veda came in, Oh, well it's
Speaker 1: because we did something wrong. Oh that's how we repaid her.
Speaker 1: But I really do I love her and Veda and
Speaker 1: I we had a special connection because Kevin's car on
Speaker 1: the show was actually Vedas car in real life. Yeah,
Speaker 1: remember Kevin's fuzzy steering wheel cover. Now that that's all
Speaker 1: Veda think of this, the simple task of keeping the
Speaker 1: entire cast on track, helping everyone with lines, marking every take,
Speaker 1: supporting the director, editors, actors, props, wardrobe all at the
Speaker 1: same time. She even made sure all of the clocks
Speaker 1: and watches were set to the same time. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that was all her too. Now, when we spoke all
Speaker 1: the way back in February, she was working on Steve
Speaker 1: Correll and Greg Daniels show Space Force with lots of
Speaker 1: other office cast and crew, so she was getting to
Speaker 1: hang out with that crew almost every day in that moment.
Speaker 1: Lucky her, and well, lucky you, because now you get
Speaker 1: to listen to my conversation with the incomparable Vada Samarn
Speaker 1: Bubble and Squeak. I love it, Bubble and squeakan Bubble
Speaker 1: and Squeaker Cookie every month left over from the night before.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, how are you so good to see you?
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I know it's been so long. Oh
Speaker 1: right there, right, yeah, right by that Mike, He'll come. Okay,
Speaker 1: it's always so fun to see people from the office.
Speaker 1: It's well, you were just working with a bunch of them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was a really cool experience to be back with,
Speaker 1: you know, Steve bunch of us, Dave Rogers. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: was very cool. Yeah is that that? Wait? Who is it? Well?
Speaker 1: Ka um, do you still have the RAB four? No?
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, okay. So you know, I remember a good
Speaker 1: story about that, you know, because the prop department always
Speaker 1: had to change my license plate right right to make
Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania. And I once drove home with the Pennsylvania plates,
Speaker 1: I remember, and I got home, I thought, oh my god,
Speaker 1: that's not good, is it? You know? And then and
Speaker 1: then of course I didn't know how to get them off,
Speaker 1: so I had to drive back the next morning with
Speaker 1: them on. But it doesn't reflect well on the prop department,
Speaker 1: you know, they had. But also I remember there were
Speaker 1: all these stickers all over it that were like Pennsylvania
Speaker 1: stickers that I had. I just left on because Kevin
Speaker 1: was always there, so my car was always right there.
Speaker 1: And it's that's that's another continuity thing that I thought of,
Speaker 1: you know, like the car continuity. There were so many
Speaker 1: weird kinds of continuity, right all right, So first, how
Speaker 1: did you get hooked in? Was it through Ken Kappas.
Speaker 1: I had done a movie with him. I did a
Speaker 1: movie that he wrote called Sexual Life, So I knew
Speaker 1: him from that, and he knew I was smart and
Speaker 1: that you know, I could figure stuff out, and you
Speaker 1: know that this show was going to require someone who
Speaker 1: could figure yourself out? Right, And you came in Diversity
Speaker 1: day right, Yes, that's the second episode. Yes, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: they didn't do the pilot. I never met the person
Speaker 1: who did the pilot, but no, I did every other
Speaker 1: episode after that though. I just stuck with it. I mean,
Speaker 1: why wouldn't. I mean, it's the best show to work
Speaker 1: on the way the show was shot. Was that more
Speaker 1: difficult for you? In other words, like there are no marks,
Speaker 1: so much improving that would affect you a lot too. Yes,
Speaker 1: it made my job completely different. I had to reinvent it.
Speaker 1: I think everyone did, you know, in their own job,
Speaker 1: their own department, and their own capacity. They had to
Speaker 1: reinvent what they normally do. You have to throw it
Speaker 1: out the window and start all over again. Because this
Speaker 1: was really different. At the beginning, no one was allowed
Speaker 1: on set. None of the crew members remember that. Because
Speaker 1: the idea was that it was going to feel like
Speaker 1: a real office and you guys were going to get
Speaker 1: acquainted with the space and feel like you were home
Speaker 1: when you were there, so that you would feel free
Speaker 1: to do whatever. So the way that affected me was
Speaker 1: humongous because first of all, I had to be in
Speaker 1: the green room with the writer the entire I think
Speaker 1: it was two or three seasons we did. So I
Speaker 1: was outside the main office. I was outside the door,
Speaker 1: and so between takes we both have to run in,
Speaker 1: I mean literally run in to give our notes. And
Speaker 1: the no slating meant that I had to reinvent the
Speaker 1: way I did my notes because I had to be
Speaker 1: able to signal to the editors where all the good
Speaker 1: parts were. So I had to use time code instead
Speaker 1: of slates to separate out each part of it. So
Speaker 1: I had to create a new way of doing the notes.
Speaker 1: This was at the beginning. Later on I got a
Speaker 1: little bit more traditional, a little bit more, but at
Speaker 1: the beginning it was totally new. Um, you would just
Speaker 1: slate the scene and the camera would just keep rolling,
Speaker 1: and a lot of what was on the camera was
Speaker 1: just the cameras sitting on the ground and feet walking by.
Speaker 1: So they had to use my notes literally to find
Speaker 1: the takes. And to find the coverage. Like I'd say, here,
Speaker 1: the camera's going wide now, so we're going to get
Speaker 1: a three shot of the accounting department. And then now
Speaker 1: and this take we got a close up of Kevin,
Speaker 1: and this take we got a close up evangel and
Speaker 1: this take we got a close up of Oscar. You know,
Speaker 1: it's like every take was a different piece of coverage
Speaker 1: or you know, a continuity there was. There was so
Speaker 1: much continuity. But luckily everyone was on top of it,
Speaker 1: so it wasn't just me, but I was definitely needed.
Speaker 1: I needed to track so much because you know, the
Speaker 1: episodes would take the place in the course of a day,
Speaker 1: so it all had to make sense right right right,
Speaker 1: like what was on even what was on people's desks
Speaker 1: or because things would changed through the course of the day. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and if we were going backwards or write Office Olympics,
Speaker 1: you know, like which games had been played? You know,
Speaker 1: you had to know at every moment we tried to
Speaker 1: shoot in order. Usually we had to know which games
Speaker 1: have been played to know what each part of the
Speaker 1: office looked like. There was a lot too, you know,
Speaker 1: I had to have like special charts for everything, like
Speaker 1: what else well for example, the clock was always in
Speaker 1: the shot and it didn't run we'd said it. But
Speaker 1: when I prepped for each episode, I had to assign
Speaker 1: a time to each scene so that the set decorator
Speaker 1: could just take that list and set the clock, and
Speaker 1: they had. We realized after the first couple of shows
Speaker 1: that we had to set it for every scene, no
Speaker 1: matter what, because you never knew what the camera was
Speaker 1: going to capture. I remember in the the Hot Girl
Speaker 1: episode when they were buying purses, you know, I had
Speaker 1: to keep track. That's another one. I had to keep
Speaker 1: track of what purse was on what desk at what time,
Speaker 1: like who bought what. And I remember very distinctly this
Speaker 1: was the moment I realized that we had to be
Speaker 1: so careful about continuity. We had to make sure the
Speaker 1: whole office was correct for every scene because we were
Speaker 1: shooting a close up of Dwight, and I remember Randall
Speaker 1: just suddenly went around to the other side of Dwight
Speaker 1: so you could see Katie in the background Amy Adams,
Speaker 1: you know, and you could suddenly see that he had
Speaker 1: the purse that he bought later on his desk, and
Speaker 1: so of course I had to run in No, that's
Speaker 1: not there yet. But that's when I realized, no, we
Speaker 1: can't leave anything out. You know, everything has to be
Speaker 1: correct for every moment because I don't know where the
Speaker 1: what the cameras are gonna see. Yes, I remember you
Speaker 1: with the clock and with the watches on people's risk,
Speaker 1: and I said later and I have used this sense
Speaker 1: that the greatest decision that I ever unwittingly made was
Speaker 1: that Kevin did not, Thank God, because having to adjust
Speaker 1: that watch every scene and the clock. You're right, well,
Speaker 1: the watches. I got a little more easy going about
Speaker 1: the watches. I decided only if someone was going to
Speaker 1: be camera, because that, yeah, there was enough for us
Speaker 1: to worry about. There was so much, Right, who does
Speaker 1: the script supervisor serve? Well, the script supervisor is a
Speaker 1: department of one, so you're your own boss. Yes, it's
Speaker 1: really hard to manage. I remember that if there was
Speaker 1: a Kelly line about how she was, she was a
Speaker 1: department of one and her department was so hard to manage.
Speaker 1: Let's have that applied to script supervisors. Right. But in
Speaker 1: terms of I guess, I don't know. It's so interesting
Speaker 1: to me, like in terms of you know, you're talking
Speaker 1: about needing to do stuff for the editors. You've got
Speaker 1: writers chirping at you, telling you you know that they
Speaker 1: want lines set a certain way. You serve them all.
Speaker 1: I mean, you production. You keep track of a lot
Speaker 1: of information about the scripts, and you know how much
Speaker 1: is shot, how much remains. You keep track of all
Speaker 1: the scenes and you know if anything's missing you tell
Speaker 1: them right away, or you keep track of scenes and
Speaker 1: what um the director or the writers want to include
Speaker 1: in the cut. For the editor and for the For
Speaker 1: the actors, you're helping them with lines. Sometimes they don't
Speaker 1: treat it as help, but you basically are helping them
Speaker 1: remember their lines. And you work for the writers in
Speaker 1: the sense that you're trying to make sure this script
Speaker 1: is properly shot, and then all the lines are as written,
Speaker 1: especially on the office because I mean, let's face it,
Speaker 1: it was like Shakespeare. The lines were beautiful. Yeah, they
Speaker 1: had to be said exactly as written at least once
Speaker 1: or twice, just because they were so beautifully written. It
Speaker 1: just had to be that way. So I was a
Speaker 1: real I was a real stickler for the burbage, you
Speaker 1: know the people. Yeah, people would cower when I came
Speaker 1: towards them. If they had like a whole paragraph that
Speaker 1: they had to say. They would be so nervous that
Speaker 1: I was going to tell them they were doing it
Speaker 1: all wrong. But you know, for the most part, I
Speaker 1: just wanted the comedy to be for it to be
Speaker 1: as funny as it possibly could be. Right. I want
Speaker 1: to talk about that a little bit, that relationship between
Speaker 1: the actors and you on the show, Like did you
Speaker 1: did you feel comfortable with everybody like Rain for example,
Speaker 1: Like Rain would give you hell. I loved him, you know,
Speaker 1: I loved everybody. It was everybody had a different way.
Speaker 1: You know. I think a lot of actors just they
Speaker 1: wanted to be so perfect that they get frustrated and
Speaker 1: and sometimes they take it out on me a little bit,
Speaker 1: but I don't really take it personally, and I know
Speaker 1: there's a lot of pressure on them. You were very,
Speaker 1: very skilled at that, particularly when we were in the
Speaker 1: conference room, and I just recall at times, you know,
Speaker 1: being in between a take and there being a kind
Speaker 1: of pause that when you're inside the conference room, you
Speaker 1: weren't quite sure what was happening, Like it felt like
Speaker 1: nothing was happening, and then you would turn the corner
Speaker 1: and it would be like, oh, somebody's getting it now,
Speaker 1: somebody is getting it from Beta. Um. But I think
Speaker 1: it was all truly it felt like everybody was working
Speaker 1: to try to make it the best show that that was.
Speaker 1: That was so lovely and unusual about that show, Like
Speaker 1: I mean, for nine years, I was excited to go
Speaker 1: to work. I got up, I was happy that I
Speaker 1: was going to see the scenes I was going to
Speaker 1: see that day, and I was so excited to see
Speaker 1: everybody at work, you know, every day. So and I
Speaker 1: think everyone felt that way. We all loved it so much.
Speaker 1: We wanted it to be as good as possible. So
Speaker 1: sometimes it took, you know, a little bit of bullying,
Speaker 1: you know, to get some Sometimes people would argue with
Speaker 1: me about lines. Well, I would make them say, like
Speaker 1: every article, every little word, because I could feel the
Speaker 1: rhythm of the line, like I knew how the line
Speaker 1: was supposed to sound, It was in my head. So
Speaker 1: I just ignored when people thought I was crazy because
Speaker 1: I knew I was right. And it quite often the
Speaker 1: line would get a laugh after they added that tiny
Speaker 1: little word like a just like one little word could
Speaker 1: make all the difference on that show. I've never seen
Speaker 1: that at any other show. How much after you handed
Speaker 1: in your note, were you in dialogue with Dave Rogers
Speaker 1: or Claire or Dean or not really like once because
Speaker 1: you're shooting the next That absolutely was because they were
Speaker 1: right there. They were in the next building, which is
Speaker 1: such a luxury because that doesn't happen very often. So
Speaker 1: I could go over there at lunchtime or between scenes
Speaker 1: and say, you know, here's what's happening. A lot of
Speaker 1: times I would have to talk to them about the director,
Speaker 1: because we had a different director for each episode almost,
Speaker 1: you know, and so many newcomers who were experienced directors,
Speaker 1: but they had never worked on the show before, so
Speaker 1: sometimes I thought they weren't quite getting it right. So
Speaker 1: I'd go and talk to Dave, and what do you
Speaker 1: think about what we shot yesterday? Does it is this
Speaker 1: director getting it? Is there any way that I could
Speaker 1: kind of nudge them in one direction or another? And
Speaker 1: sometimes you'd say, you just get more reaction shots, get
Speaker 1: tons of reactions for this episode because I'm going to
Speaker 1: really need them, or or they'd say, you know, you're
Speaker 1: not the director is not getting enough angles. I need
Speaker 1: more angles to be able to pace the scene the
Speaker 1: way I need to pace it because that was a
Speaker 1: big thing for them, pacing for the comedy. I remember
Speaker 1: some instances, but I want to talk to you about
Speaker 1: how you were tracking not just continuity within an episode,
Speaker 1: but also continuity within relationships that spanned marks. Right, I was,
Speaker 1: and Um sometimes that was very difficult. Well, first of all,
Speaker 1: I didn't always know what or remember like what parts
Speaker 1: of the script had ended up in the final cut,
Speaker 1: because it was half of it basically would be in
Speaker 1: the final cut, so I didn't always remember what had
Speaker 1: actually aired. And then if something stated in season two
Speaker 1: and then in season five we revisited that idea, sometimes
Speaker 1: I wouldn't remember that we'd already said something about that.
Speaker 1: I'll give you an example, like um, who started at
Speaker 1: dunder Mifflin first, Pam or Jim. That was a big
Speaker 1: issue that the fans noticed because early on we said
Speaker 1: it was Pham, I believe, and then later on we
Speaker 1: said Jim had been there or the eye. I don't
Speaker 1: remember which round it was. But it was years, literally
Speaker 1: years later, that we addressed it again and contradicted ourselves.
Speaker 1: And that was you know, I would catch those things
Speaker 1: quite often, but I couldn't catch all of them. It
Speaker 1: was just too hard. There were two characters and yeah,
Speaker 1: and they all had their own stories with different relationships.
Speaker 1: There was some question about like how many kids did
Speaker 1: Meredith actually have? Was it one or two? Because she
Speaker 1: says when she's being described to Michael when he's trying
Speaker 1: to write a funny message on her birthday card season
Speaker 1: the second season, for the first season, thinking they say
Speaker 1: she has two kids, and then later she only had one.
Speaker 1: So then I think it was in a webisode that
Speaker 1: we addressed that issue and why she wouldn't talk about
Speaker 1: the other kid, right, right, right, And I think that
Speaker 1: was the other thing I remember Greg talking about, which was, yeah,
Speaker 1: the webisodes. Was that a part of the history of
Speaker 1: the show too, or was it just the episodes or
Speaker 1: was it everything we shot? Like, yeah, there's a lot
Speaker 1: to keep track of, ye, and the writers had to
Speaker 1: try to keep it all in their heads too, you know.
Speaker 1: So hopefully with everybody thinking about it, most of the
Speaker 1: problems got addressed. But I'm sure, you know, I'm sure
Speaker 1: there are things that the fans are still finding little nuggets.
Speaker 1: So so you would take the script and you would
Speaker 1: break it, So tell me, like the process of what
Speaker 1: how you would break down a script. Well, I would
Speaker 1: do that on the weekends. I would take the script
Speaker 1: and um for each scene, I would you know, note
Speaker 1: for myself the significant things that happened for each character
Speaker 1: and each scene, and then what time of day that was,
Speaker 1: so that I would be able to create like a
Speaker 1: story flow for myself. After the first season, I believe
Speaker 1: there was almost always a beast story as well, So
Speaker 1: I would separate out the A the B. Sometimes there
Speaker 1: was a C story, and I'd color code them so
Speaker 1: that I'd see each story separately and how it developed
Speaker 1: over the course of the day. So like you're tracking,
Speaker 1: say if Michael and Carol have something this episode, and
Speaker 1: Jim and Pam or you know, Darryl and Gim or something, right,
Speaker 1: you're tracking all like the middle of the day, they're
Speaker 1: not speaking to each other, you know, then I know that,
Speaker 1: you know, Okay, that's that's about four hours into the day.
Speaker 1: And then a couple of hours later something happens that
Speaker 1: makes them bond again, and yeah, that that. I was
Speaker 1: definitely tracking that kind of thing, and I would get
Speaker 1: a lot of questions about that from the actors. Yes,
Speaker 1: like when is this happening. We're shooting scenes out of order. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I when did I get angry? Yes? Right? Am
Speaker 1: I building up to it now? Or has it already happened? Right?
Speaker 1: So you have this chart, and I'm fascinated about this.
Speaker 1: So are you Once actors get in wardrobe, if the
Speaker 1: wardrobe is changing, does that get added to your chart?
Speaker 1: I mean, every department keeps their own continuity, so I'm
Speaker 1: just really checking it. Right. The Yankee swap episode must
Speaker 1: be the most complicated and difficult. You know, when does
Speaker 1: Phillis have the mit? She gives it to Michael and
Speaker 1: when we're shooting scenes out of order? Who has it?
Speaker 1: What are they doing with it? Yeah? I definitely had
Speaker 1: to have a very clear chart of that. I remember
Speaker 1: Mike Sure and I were in the green room for
Speaker 1: that because that was when we still were not allowed
Speaker 1: on set. And I remember he we had so many
Speaker 1: charts on the walls, and one of the charts was
Speaker 1: his tally of how many times he had to run
Speaker 1: in each day. I still have that, Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: you do. I kept that document? Oh my god, like
Speaker 1: how many times he had to run in that? It's
Speaker 1: really funny on an episode of my episode basis, you're
Speaker 1: a department of one so you serve yourself and you're
Speaker 1: served by yourself. But are you like, who are you
Speaker 1: working closest with on a week day? Is that the writers?
Speaker 1: Is that the director or is it usually the director?
Speaker 1: But I mean the director and the actors. But um,
Speaker 1: on the office, the writer was very involved, so that
Speaker 1: that was I also worked very closely with the writers.
Speaker 1: That isn't always the case on comedies. Usually the writer
Speaker 1: comes to set, but quite often they'll send a writer
Speaker 1: to supervise the writing for them. You know, there will
Speaker 1: be like a designated writer who's on set, but on
Speaker 1: the office it was usually the writer of the episode
Speaker 1: would be on set. Did you have any special secrets
Speaker 1: or ways that you dealt with any of the particular
Speaker 1: actors on set? I mean your relationship with each actor
Speaker 1: is to front. Well, there were different ways I would
Speaker 1: have to phrase things like would you try one where
Speaker 1: you say it this way? Or you know, with you,
Speaker 1: I would just say, you know, here's the line in
Speaker 1: the script. You know, there wasn't a lot of attitude there,
Speaker 1: so you would just you just say, okay, but I
Speaker 1: want to say this way. You know, we would just
Speaker 1: negotiating and it would be quick. There would be some negotiation, yes, okay,
Speaker 1: but sometimes I would have to word things carefully because
Speaker 1: and I remember once I told one of the actors, um,
Speaker 1: it's funnier this way, and I realized, no, I can't
Speaker 1: say it that way because he got so mad at me.
Speaker 1: Don't tell me what's funny. Yeah. I mean that's the
Speaker 1: thing is that I imagine on some shows there would
Speaker 1: be a level of defensiveness or like, I don't feel
Speaker 1: like we had that. I feel like every but he
Speaker 1: was trying very hard. Yeah. Yeah, everybody wanted it to
Speaker 1: be funny and want you know, I felt like there
Speaker 1: was an understanding. They knew that I was saying something
Speaker 1: because I thought it would improve their line or improve
Speaker 1: the scene. Yes, it wasn't. It wasn't ever personal for me,
Speaker 1: so I think I think for the most part, people
Speaker 1: were really nice to me. I think people it was
Speaker 1: more I just remember fondly. Actually, I don't know if
Speaker 1: you felt that way, but I remember just a very
Speaker 1: you know, almost like family like when again, like when
Speaker 1: you would turn the corner, it would be like, oh no,
Speaker 1: here's dah oh boy. Um No, it was fun. It
Speaker 1: was frustrating to me that I couldn't prompt lines because
Speaker 1: I just was usually too far away. My voice doesn't
Speaker 1: care very well, and people would end up just laughing
Speaker 1: when they asked for a line because they couldn't hear it.
Speaker 1: That's exactly right, so frustrating for me. I mean, I've
Speaker 1: always I liked prompting lines. I try to do it
Speaker 1: in a timely fashion. But I don't know if you remember.
Speaker 1: After a while we asked the stand ins Steven Socks
Speaker 1: and that's right, Ray Socks, to be on lines if
Speaker 1: it was a long scene. They would kind of crouch
Speaker 1: somewhere closer and just be how was that came from me?
Speaker 1: Because I said, you know, it's really not on this show.
Speaker 1: I really can't be on the lines all the time.
Speaker 1: So we set up that system where Laura and Stephen
Speaker 1: would sit in the room and just give lines really quickly,
Speaker 1: because that's what you need when you're an actor, right,
Speaker 1: you need to hear the line just really quickly so
Speaker 1: you can stick with the momentum of the scene, right,
Speaker 1: so it doesn't you don't lose this scene. I do,
Speaker 1: I do remember, though Again I don't know why every
Speaker 1: all my memories go back to the conference room, but
Speaker 1: just being in the conference room, someone going well, what
Speaker 1: is it? What's the line? And you hear and then
Speaker 1: everyone just laughing because there was just no embarrassed there
Speaker 1: was no way to hear. Um. How difficult was it
Speaker 1: to track all of the improv stuff that happened, Well,
Speaker 1: I couldn't really track it. I mean I would just say, okay, here,
Speaker 1: this is a big chunk of improv, and I try
Speaker 1: to describe to the editor what was happening in that section,
Speaker 1: and and I tried to make sure there were points
Speaker 1: where they could cut in and out of the improv sections.
Speaker 1: And that was all I could really do, just make
Speaker 1: sure that everything up to the improv matched and everything
Speaker 1: coming out of it, man, and that there were angles
Speaker 1: to cut two in case they needed to cut out
Speaker 1: of it. So I had always encouraged that we got
Speaker 1: reaction shots. That was a big deal to get a
Speaker 1: reaction passed, yeah, which would give just cut natural cutaway
Speaker 1: points through anything. Kevin, Yes, Um, in terms of unscripted
Speaker 1: stuff or even physical gestures. I'm sure that you had
Speaker 1: an instinct at least eventually like, oh, well that's going
Speaker 1: to be in the show. The example that I'm thinking
Speaker 1: about is gay witch hunt so Oscar or Michael going
Speaker 1: and kissing Oscar. Yeah, that would be in the show. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: How do you signal that out or does that become
Speaker 1: a specific thing that you add in to the script
Speaker 1: for the editor or my script is always the official script.
Speaker 1: It represents what was shot. So I cross out things
Speaker 1: that we don't shoot, and I'll add things that we
Speaker 1: do shoot if they're not in the script. So definitely,
Speaker 1: I'll I'll write that in. So I put this in
Speaker 1: this take, Michael kisses Oscar. Every director and the writer
Speaker 1: love that. Use it if you can, you know, oh
Speaker 1: those things. Yeah, but yeah, I did after a while
Speaker 1: know what which takes we're going to be in the show,
Speaker 1: Which takes we're gonna be looked at the most closely.
Speaker 1: And you know, I knew what Dave would choose when
Speaker 1: I saw the show. You know, at the end of
Speaker 1: the week, I would recognize the takes that he chose.
Speaker 1: I think I I knew he was going to pick
Speaker 1: that one after a while. Yeah, Like it's the the
Speaker 1: family thing. I mean, you just know people's taste, you
Speaker 1: know how they work, you know, you know you know
Speaker 1: each other so well after a while. I mean, Greg
Speaker 1: obviously you are working closely with him when he's writing
Speaker 1: on set, when he's directing. How much communication do you
Speaker 1: have with him about your job specifically? It was just
Speaker 1: when he was on set, really when he was directing, particularly,
Speaker 1: and he would interact with me a lot, and then
Speaker 1: he I think that's when people find out what my
Speaker 1: job is when they something. Were there any particular relationships
Speaker 1: with directors that you felt like you worked really well
Speaker 1: with and and and that working relationship maturities the show? Well,
Speaker 1: I think well, always when the writer directed their own episode,
Speaker 1: there was a real understanding because I always really appreciated
Speaker 1: the scripts. The scripts were so good, you know, um,
Speaker 1: and I think that they felt there was a lot
Speaker 1: of support coming from me because I wanted the script
Speaker 1: shot properly, and sometimes um, I could help a little
Speaker 1: bit with the angles and the you know, the way
Speaker 1: the scene was shot, because I knew what we would
Speaker 1: traditionally do with a scene like that, you know. So
Speaker 1: I always enjoyed working with Ken Koppas and Paul fig
Speaker 1: and um Ken Whittingham, and there were certain directors that
Speaker 1: would keep coming back and then I would love to
Speaker 1: work with. It was funny on the office, particularly on
Speaker 1: that show. After a few years, we felt like we
Speaker 1: knew how to make the show, and we felt like
Speaker 1: we didn't even need a director. So the director would
Speaker 1: come on and they would be guided by all of us,
Speaker 1: and sometimes, um, we would wonder about how they were
Speaker 1: shooting something. I remember when time a scene was shot,
Speaker 1: it was a scene in the parking lot. We were
Speaker 1: shooting it from an angle that I thought wasn't that
Speaker 1: right angle for the show, But that was just from
Speaker 1: what was in my head when I read it. Well,
Speaker 1: the next week we came back and reshot it from
Speaker 1: the other angle. I didn't I hadn't said anything because
Speaker 1: I felt like it wasn't really my place. I mean,
Speaker 1: the director and that DP were were decided to shoot
Speaker 1: it from the other side, but I thought, that's not
Speaker 1: how this is supposed to be shot. So sometimes, you know,
Speaker 1: there was a real feeling that the crew knew the set,
Speaker 1: knew the characters, knew the scripts better than anyone else,
Speaker 1: and so the director would just bring in a few
Speaker 1: interesting ideas that would shake it up a little, which
Speaker 1: was good because it never became formulaic. For that reason,
Speaker 1: I think because we had so many new directors all
Speaker 1: the time, Yeah, Well, here's some names. Randall Einhorn, Matt Son,
Speaker 1: John Krasinski, me Um, I believe, Steve Carrell, Claire Scanlon,
Speaker 1: Dave Rogers all directed. I'm sure I'm missing some, but
Speaker 1: all directed on the Office for the first time. How
Speaker 1: was that for you? Working with inexperienced people, but people
Speaker 1: who knew the show so well? Did that present specific challenges? Yes?
Speaker 1: I no, I mean it. Um. When we had a
Speaker 1: like a famous director coming in, it was always exciting,
Speaker 1: but it was always that was more of a challenge
Speaker 1: because they didn't always get the show and it was
Speaker 1: hard to politely steer them in the right direction. Um.
Speaker 1: When it was somebody who was working on the show already,
Speaker 1: that problem was already solved. They got the show, they
Speaker 1: knew what the human they knew the humor, they knew,
Speaker 1: they knew the characters, they knew the spaces that we
Speaker 1: generally worked in, and they knew how to make the show. Um.
Speaker 1: But sometimes they didn't know how to direct, um, just
Speaker 1: because they hadn't done it before, and sometimes they didn't
Speaker 1: realize all the different things that were their responsibilities. And
Speaker 1: because we all knew how to make the show, we
Speaker 1: would often pick up the slack and we would do
Speaker 1: part of the director's job. And um, that was sometimes
Speaker 1: difficult because we all had so much to do already.
Speaker 1: To have to, you know, help someone out when they
Speaker 1: don't even realize you're helping them out, that was kind
Speaker 1: of hard. Sometimes interesting. Yeah, I mean you had all
Speaker 1: people just trying to direct this show, but the diverse
Speaker 1: range of experiences. You know, you've got editors. You've got
Speaker 1: Dave Rogers and Claire Scanlon who presumably have never dealt
Speaker 1: with actors before, but they knew what shots they need,
Speaker 1: they knew what shots they needed. And then you've got
Speaker 1: Randall and Matt who again don't really know how to
Speaker 1: deal with actors, but they know where that camera is.
Speaker 1: Whereas you know, actors, I knew how I wanted it
Speaker 1: to look, but don't talk to me about lenses, right,
Speaker 1: or like what lens we're going to use, you know,
Speaker 1: So it's like coming at it from just different perspectives.
Speaker 1: I just think it's very interesting. I mean, every director
Speaker 1: has their strengths and weaknesses. But um, but when you'd
Speaker 1: get someone like Ken Kappas, you know, it would go
Speaker 1: really smoothly because not only did he understand the show
Speaker 1: and know how to make the show. But he also
Speaker 1: knew all the aspects of directing and what everyone was
Speaker 1: expecting from him, So that was always the best for
Speaker 1: me when it was somebody like that. But um, but
Speaker 1: I know, I really, you know, wanted to support everybody. So,
Speaker 1: you know, everybody who directed I, you know, I felt
Speaker 1: like they were bringing a lot of new things to
Speaker 1: the table and some things they just weren't that aware
Speaker 1: of yet. But you know, like some directors would you know,
Speaker 1: like an actor directing would be very aware of the acting,
Speaker 1: would be very often very aware of what would make
Speaker 1: the scene funny, which was great, but they might not
Speaker 1: be aware of the angles and different kinds of coverage
Speaker 1: that we needed and the lighting or something, you know,
Speaker 1: so they wouldn't work with those departments, so that those
Speaker 1: departments would have to jump in and pick up the slack.
Speaker 1: Michael's search for family, you know, ends up being his
Speaker 1: you know, his his major journey through the show. Do
Speaker 1: you have any specific recollections or memories about about that?
Speaker 1: About a man who had nobody All he wanted was
Speaker 1: somebody He used the office as as that somebody, and
Speaker 1: then eventually finding love and going away well, it was
Speaker 1: what kept me hooked on his character the whole time.
Speaker 1: I was always so interested to see what Steve would
Speaker 1: do with each new situation. What I kept wanting to
Speaker 1: find out, what I was so fascinated with every day,
Speaker 1: was to see how the scenes would play out, because
Speaker 1: I when I read the script and studied it over
Speaker 1: the weekend, I always had very specific ideas about how
Speaker 1: it would look. I mean I could see the whole
Speaker 1: the whole episode in my head. So I guess what,
Speaker 1: you know, it's just like a personal fascination with you know,
Speaker 1: is is that the way it's going to look? Or
Speaker 1: is it is there going to be something different about
Speaker 1: it than I haven't imagined yet. It was just fascinating
Speaker 1: see to see how the actors would play out the
Speaker 1: scenes and how they'd say the lines, because I would
Speaker 1: love the lines and I would want to hear them,
Speaker 1: and I could hear like I could hear your voice
Speaker 1: in my head. I could here you know, Michael's voice,
Speaker 1: Jim's voice. You know, I knew how the how they
Speaker 1: generally delivered their lines, but I always wanted to hear
Speaker 1: how these specific lines were going to sound. So as
Speaker 1: far as you know, the character arc and the journey.
Speaker 1: I always felt like I was just an observer and
Speaker 1: that you know, and the writers were always coming up
Speaker 1: with interesting new twists. Right, here's a question. I have
Speaker 1: been asking people, what were you afraid of missing more
Speaker 1: Steve or Michael Scott. Oh? Well, I was afraid that
Speaker 1: without Michael Scott the show wouldn't work. And it did work.
Speaker 1: So I was proud of us that we managed to
Speaker 1: make it work. But I knew personally that I would
Speaker 1: miss Steve terribly, that my heart would ache, that I
Speaker 1: wouldn't just miss seeing him. And it's hard for a crew,
Speaker 1: you know, when you get close to actors, because you
Speaker 1: can't just go over their house, you know, you can't
Speaker 1: just call them up and say you want to have
Speaker 1: a drink, you know, because it's a different kind of relationship,
Speaker 1: it's a work relationship. So you know, I've I knew
Speaker 1: I would miss him. Yeah, as a person, you know,
Speaker 1: just miss seeing him. Well, and you this is sort
Speaker 1: of occurring to me, but you know, for seven years
Speaker 1: he had the most to say, so you were you
Speaker 1: definitely had the bulk of your work with with him.
Speaker 1: He had long speeches too, which he could memorize so fast.
Speaker 1: No one's amazed me. But I would help him. Yeah.
Speaker 1: He would always warn me. You know, I'm going to
Speaker 1: be all over the place with this, you know. So um,
Speaker 1: I would just tell him if I thought something wasn't working,
Speaker 1: or if he was leaving something out, or you know,
Speaker 1: he needed to say something a little differently. But for
Speaker 1: the most part, he just let him do his thing.
Speaker 1: Was he always receptive to you? Well, he was so sweet,
Speaker 1: you know he Um, Yes, he was always receptive because
Speaker 1: he knew I I had a concern. You know. It
Speaker 1: wasn't just I wasn't just trying to wield my power
Speaker 1: or something, you know. I actually it was genuine. He
Speaker 1: knew that. So we do have a picture we took though,
Speaker 1: we posed where Steve is going like this kind of
Speaker 1: like who wants to push me away? And I'm trying
Speaker 1: to give him a line, because that's the general feeling
Speaker 1: when the script supervisor gives lines that you know they're
Speaker 1: nagging you. Did you ever feel like Toby? Toby pretty
Speaker 1: much always well, something I don't know, because my you know,
Speaker 1: this was a second career for me. I was I
Speaker 1: was an academic first and I and I was a
Speaker 1: professor and or history right, and you know, film stuff,
Speaker 1: film history, film studies, and so my approach was always
Speaker 1: very sort of academic. You know, this line is you know,
Speaker 1: and I think I'm might nitpick a little because I
Speaker 1: don't always have the perspective on it. You know, maybe
Speaker 1: this isn't that important, but you know I try to
Speaker 1: every script sour for us tries to judge very clear
Speaker 1: clearly in their mind. You know, is this important enough
Speaker 1: for me to interrupt things to for me to throw
Speaker 1: you know, you don't want to throw the actors off.
Speaker 1: You don't want to give them stuff to think about.
Speaker 1: You want them to do their thing. But um, I
Speaker 1: mean as far as continuity goes, or lines or any
Speaker 1: of any of that, it's it's never perfect. There's always
Speaker 1: something you can correct, but you have to try to
Speaker 1: be smart about what to correct and what to just leave.
Speaker 1: Because you don't want people to feel like they have
Speaker 1: to pay attention to the lines. You want them to
Speaker 1: pay attention to the acting or there. You don't want
Speaker 1: them to suddenly start paying attention to like where their
Speaker 1: arms are, you know, So I'd really try to correct
Speaker 1: people to add to a minimum. I try to keep
Speaker 1: it to a minimum because in my job there is
Speaker 1: a certain nerdiness. You know, you tend to be very
Speaker 1: attuned to the details, and you don't always see the
Speaker 1: big picture. So, you know, I try to pay attention
Speaker 1: to the directors and to you know, how they're dealing
Speaker 1: with the actors. If they're not giving notes, I'm not
Speaker 1: going to go in and give a note because there's
Speaker 1: a reason they're not giving them yet. They're trying to
Speaker 1: let the actor find something. And over the years, I
Speaker 1: think I've gotten more and more sensitive to that. What
Speaker 1: was it like working with Steve as a director? The
Speaker 1: last episode he directed is the one he proposes to Holly.
Speaker 1: What was it like working so smart? You know? It
Speaker 1: made it pretty easy because he was so nice, so smart,
Speaker 1: so savvy about the show. He was a great director
Speaker 1: to have. Yeah, Towards the end, he had this idea
Speaker 1: that he wanted Threat Level Midnight to be seen on
Speaker 1: the show. Talk to me a little bit about the
Speaker 1: challenge of attempting to piece together and and find the
Speaker 1: continuity of this movie that was possibly shot. Well, the
Speaker 1: thing about that was that it was supposed to be goofy.
Speaker 1: We were doing contnuity for Threat Little Lettle Midnight, there
Speaker 1: was going to be something that didn't have continuity. But
Speaker 1: that's a tricky thing because I remember when I first
Speaker 1: got hired to do the show. I remember Ken Quaba saying,
Speaker 1: we're you know, we're not going to worry about continuity
Speaker 1: because it's a documentary. The documentarians can make mistakes, but
Speaker 1: that only works on certain levels. That works on the
Speaker 1: level of on the cutting level, Like if if the
Speaker 1: documentarian cut in two different pieces of a take cut
Speaker 1: them together in an awkward way, that would be okay.
Speaker 1: But you can't cut together two takes that don't match,
Speaker 1: because then you're implying that this thing happened twice and
Speaker 1: it only happened once, you know what I mean. So
Speaker 1: if there has to be a reality to it that
Speaker 1: you know, um, so that conuity is actually very important
Speaker 1: in the end and not something I could ignore. And
Speaker 1: you didn't want to imply that The documentarians were saying, Okay,
Speaker 1: do this again, you know, but do it a little differently,
Speaker 1: because they were just supposed to be shooting discreetly, you know,
Speaker 1: and not controlling what was happening. They were all kinds
Speaker 1: of new, new kinds of continuity that I hadn't really
Speaker 1: thought about before, Like if somebody was out of the office,
Speaker 1: their jacket couldn't be on their chair because they were
Speaker 1: wearing it, right, So you'd have to, you know, look
Speaker 1: at sort of the the opposite side of the community.
Speaker 1: What what shouldn't be there? Right in the parking lot,
Speaker 1: it was the same way, what cars should be there
Speaker 1: and what cars shouldn't be there. We have to always
Speaker 1: think about that. Well, the most important car was your
Speaker 1: actual yes, right, that was Kevin's Carns car for a
Speaker 1: long time. Do you remember when it first got established?
Speaker 1: It was right away it was like, yeah, yeah, the
Speaker 1: first season. Yeah, I drove it quite a few times
Speaker 1: in the end, Yes, in front of Holloway when she's
Speaker 1: impressed with me sort of most notably, um, yeah, I
Speaker 1: remember thinking, you know, she's so impressed that I'm driving
Speaker 1: the car. And I remember having this idea of just
Speaker 1: driving it straight over the curve just like and just
Speaker 1: plowing right. And then I thought, the greatest car. I
Speaker 1: think I won't I think I won't do that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I I always remember Rap four. Oh it wasn't
Speaker 1: the Rap four. It was CRVRV. First I forgot, yes,
Speaker 1: but now it was do you remember there was like
Speaker 1: this fuzzy tiger striped cover over the wheel, over the wheel. Yeah,
Speaker 1: after a couple of years, my husband bought that for
Speaker 1: me because steering wheill get cold. But I remember at
Speaker 1: the production meeting, John was directing the episode where you
Speaker 1: were driving the car, and I asked him I should
Speaker 1: should I take off the fuzzy steering wheel cover, and
Speaker 1: he said, I would never ask you to do that.
Speaker 1: I would never ask you to take off something like that. No,
Speaker 1: that if that's on your car, you leave that. That's
Speaker 1: so great. And we all got a little bump on
Speaker 1: our paycheck if we have are I think it was
Speaker 1: like five dollars that you got if your car was
Speaker 1: in a scene, and they just kept a tally of
Speaker 1: how many times your car was in a scene, and
Speaker 1: you'd get a little bumped for that. Really do you
Speaker 1: get residuals? Get residuals. But the car was in a
Speaker 1: lot of shots, a lot of shots. No, it was
Speaker 1: was the office. Um, your acting debut. Well I was
Speaker 1: only in that last Yeah, I was in that last episode.
Speaker 1: And yes, that was your acting debut. Any memories about
Speaker 1: being on set in front of the camera. I was
Speaker 1: always so nervous. I'm really shy, so that was not
Speaker 1: comfortable for me. But I like that we were all
Speaker 1: you know that a lot of us were in that
Speaker 1: final episode, but it was I didn't want to have
Speaker 1: a line or anything. What do you remember going into
Speaker 1: the finale? Did you feel like it was time for
Speaker 1: it to be over. I didn't want it to be
Speaker 1: over personally. I would have liked to just work on
Speaker 1: that show for the rest of my career. But um,
Speaker 1: I felt like it was smart to decide when your
Speaker 1: show is going to end and wrap it up beautifully
Speaker 1: instead of just ending it suddenly. But it was so sad.
Speaker 1: It was just hard for all of us. I think, Yeah,
Speaker 1: what was it do you think about the show that?
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously, it's a job, and in our industry,
Speaker 1: like having a job and a good job is is
Speaker 1: a blessing. But it felt different. There was something about it.
Speaker 1: It felt special. Yes, definitely. There was a lot of love.
Speaker 1: You know, there was a lot of um caring for
Speaker 1: the show, caring for each other. It was a good
Speaker 1: environment and you know, even though it was very tiring,
Speaker 1: we were all exhausted, it felt good to do that
Speaker 1: job and to be there every day. It was hard
Speaker 1: to imagine not having that, and I really never have
Speaker 1: found a show where I feel that way. So I
Speaker 1: was right to be sad because it really was something
Speaker 1: that I was losing. I mean, I've enjoyed shows I've
Speaker 1: worked on since then, but never I never felt that
Speaker 1: warmth and that camaraderie in anything else. We were all
Speaker 1: we all laughed so much that sometimes it was hard
Speaker 1: to finish a scene. And I had to put that
Speaker 1: in my notes because you know, I'd say this scene
Speaker 1: was great up until they all broke. That was something
Speaker 1: the editors would mention to me sometimes, you know, I
Speaker 1: can't cut this, it's like somebody's breaking in every take.
Speaker 1: But then also the crew we had to you know,
Speaker 1: we couldn't laugh out loud, and that is hard to
Speaker 1: do sometimes, especially if you're in that little talking head
Speaker 1: room and you're sitting right in front of the actor.
Speaker 1: There were times when I had to actually leave the room.
Speaker 1: But that was one thing that made it great to
Speaker 1: be there every day, because you would there was so
Speaker 1: much that was so funny. There was so much laughter. Um,
Speaker 1: talk to me about this German lullaby oh that appeared
Speaker 1: in the show that was in Mindy's something, Mindy road right,
Speaker 1: Mindy Kaylenk. The episode was Night Out Dwight. It was
Speaker 1: Dwight Dwight sings Ryan to sleep. Yeah, my mother was Viennese,
Speaker 1: so her first language was German, and when growing up
Speaker 1: in Vienna, they spoke German and so her mother would
Speaker 1: sing her German lullaby. So when I was a child,
Speaker 1: she sang German lullabies to me when I was falling asleep.
Speaker 1: So I knew a couple of German lullabies. And so
Speaker 1: I just piped up and said, you know, I because
Speaker 1: I guess she wanted him to sing something to her. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I said, well he could sing what my mother sang
Speaker 1: to me, and I sang it for was it schlofkin
Speaker 1: lynchlough schlaf kin lynch law mm hmm, yeah, I think
Speaker 1: that was that. Yeah, And um, I always found it
Speaker 1: very soothing. So so yeah, well I don't remember the
Speaker 1: words right now, but I know because it starts schlaf
Speaker 1: kin lynch lav mm hmmmmmm. I don't remember the words
Speaker 1: at the time, I still I remembered the words where
Speaker 1: I looked them up. Slow kin lynch law. That's very funny. Um,
Speaker 1: the guys, is there anything else that I've missed here? Right? Yeah,
Speaker 1: look at your list. I actually hear all this stuff.
Speaker 1: Do you ever say that's what she said? I say it,
Speaker 1: I say it. I say it around friends. I tend
Speaker 1: to not draw attention to that fact, but yes, do
Speaker 1: you say that's what she said? My husband and I
Speaker 1: say it all the time at home. Yeah, but I
Speaker 1: try not to say it on set anymore because I
Speaker 1: think people do get maybe offended by it, and you know,
Speaker 1: sets are so sensitive now about harassment and saying things
Speaker 1: like that. So I don't say it on set anymore.
Speaker 1: Just sometimes I have to say it, so I say
Speaker 1: it to myself really quietly. Do you do you think
Speaker 1: that this show could be made now? In this question
Speaker 1: woke PC environment, I think it was, you know, a
Speaker 1: perfect storm. It's like, you know, everything came together at
Speaker 1: that moment, all the people involved, all the ideas, all
Speaker 1: the um you know, the crew, that talent, it all
Speaker 1: came together in a way that made it all work.
Speaker 1: And I don't know if we could ever happen exactly
Speaker 1: that way again. Yeah, I don't know if it has
Speaker 1: to do with the time period or it's just the
Speaker 1: miracle of all those personalities coming together at that moment. Yeah, Veda,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for coming, and yeah for coming
Speaker 1: to talk to me and your your perspective having watched
Speaker 1: it all as it happened, is really delight to watch. Well, Vada,
Speaker 1: what a delight you are. And thank you for speaking
Speaker 1: with me. What a true pleasure to have you in.
Speaker 1: That's what she said. Uh, and thank you listeners for
Speaker 1: joining in. Join us again next week please for another
Speaker 1: riveting conversation, and don't forget to subscribe and leave us
Speaker 1: comments on on whatever podcast platform you see fit. Have
Speaker 1: a great week. The Office Deep Dive is hosted and
Speaker 1: executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer, Langlee.
Speaker 1: Our senior producer is Tessa Kramer. Our producers are Emily
Speaker 1: Carr and Diego Tapia. Our social media producer is Liz Hayes.
Speaker 1: My main man in the booth is Alec Moore. Our
Speaker 1: theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed by my great friend
Speaker 1: Creed Bratton, and the episode was mixed by Seth Oladsky