1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:03,880 Speaker 1: I listen to the Black Guy Who Tips podcast because 2 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:05,120 Speaker 1: Rod and Karen. 3 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:09,559 Speaker 2: Hey, welcome to another episode of the Blackouts podcast. 4 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:12,920 Speaker 1: I'm your host, Rod, join us always by my. 5 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:17,320 Speaker 2: Co host Kiaren, and we are live on what appears 6 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:20,120 Speaker 2: to be don't check your watches and account it is 7 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:22,560 Speaker 2: actually in the middle of the day. 8 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 1: It's one pm. Very special timing, very special taping, and well. 9 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 3: Y'all gonna get this early and gonna be like I 10 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 3: thought I was gonna be in a chat. 11 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm sorry you missed it. 12 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:36,159 Speaker 2: We had this on schedule for weeks and we have 13 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 2: a very special guest first time on the show. 14 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:40,240 Speaker 1: Today's guest is host. 15 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:43,839 Speaker 2: Of Going Wild with Doctor Ray Whyn Grant, which may 16 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:44,880 Speaker 2: be a spoiler for who. 17 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:45,280 Speaker 1: The guest is. 18 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:51,839 Speaker 2: Conservation scientists, large carnivore ecologist, nature storyteller and advocate and 19 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 2: expert on the human carnivore conflict, Doctor Ray when Grant, Hey, 20 00:00:57,000 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 2: how you doing. 21 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 4: Hello, I'm real good. I'm really happy that we started 22 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 4: by talking about music, so my day is also I 23 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 4: have to say I'm on Pacific time, so it's still 24 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 4: morning here. 25 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:11,840 Speaker 2: Oh okay, Well you know, morning Bobs. 26 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 1: You know this is a great way to wake up. 27 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:17,840 Speaker 2: I'm actually drinking coffee because this is how I make 28 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 2: my living with this podcast. So I've only been up 29 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 2: for like thirty minutes, so that's you know, it's like 30 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:30,480 Speaker 2: we both you're both on West Coast time. So I 31 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:34,319 Speaker 2: guess the first question that we have for you, can 32 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:39,400 Speaker 2: you explain to people what your podcast is about? And uh, 33 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:41,679 Speaker 2: and then we'll get into like some of the stuff 34 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:43,319 Speaker 2: with like what what what you do? 35 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 3: Yes? 36 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 4: Yeah, So my podcast is a storytelling podcast, So I 37 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 4: am on there telling all of my craziest, like most 38 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 4: adventurous stories from my life as a wilde ecologists. So 39 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 4: I like I spend a lot of my time in 40 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 4: the wilderness. I'm the type of scientist that studies wild animals. 41 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 4: I try to figure out how to like protect endangered 42 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:13,680 Speaker 4: species from going extinct. For example, if you remember, like 43 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 4: back in the nineties when I was a kid in 44 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:19,679 Speaker 4: the nineties, like bald eagles, we're on the endangered species list. 45 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 4: We're all freaking out because we're like we're not gonna 46 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 4: have no more bald eagles whales, like what's happening? So 47 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 4: wildlife ecologists like me work on trying to figure out 48 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:31,680 Speaker 4: how to save these species from going extinct, and then 49 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 4: sometimes it works, right, like now bald eagles are off 50 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 4: the endangered species list, like there's enough of them. They're 51 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 4: doing okay. So to do that, I have to spend 52 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 4: a lot of time in some wild places, like full 53 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 4: on wilderness. I get my hands on lions and bears 54 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 4: and wolves and coyotes and all these animals. I've lived 55 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:55,800 Speaker 4: in you know, Central and East Africa multiple times. I 56 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 4: spend a lot of time in the wilderness, traveling around 57 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 4: the world for these animals, and I, as you can imagine, 58 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:05,240 Speaker 4: have crazy stories from you know, almost twenty years of 59 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 4: doing this crazy stories. So I collected all my stories, 60 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 4: found the absolute best ones, and I have presented them 61 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 4: in my podcast, Going Wild with Doctor Raywin Grant. So 62 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:19,520 Speaker 4: it is not like just me kind of talking to 63 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 4: the audience. It's literally me taking you step by step 64 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:27,079 Speaker 4: through like tracking lemurs in the jungles of Madagascar, or 65 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:31,920 Speaker 4: looking for lions on the savannah of Tanzania, or you know, 66 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 4: grizzly bears in the United States. And what makes my podcast, 67 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 4: I think really amazing is that I bring my like 68 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 4: my full self to these stories. So there's always like 69 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 4: a hunt and adventure in the wild, but there's also 70 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 4: like a personal like mental emotional journey I'm going through 71 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 4: at the same time. A lot of it is about 72 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 4: my personal identity as a black woman, like in the field, 73 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 4: having music spearances, like how my identity like like makes 74 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 4: the experience very very unique and different, and so I 75 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 4: bring that as part of the story too. So there's 76 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 4: like there's some really personal stuff in there, like really 77 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 4: like really like I mean, I talk about like mistakes 78 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:20,720 Speaker 4: I've made. I talk about like, you know, I had 79 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 4: a marriage that ended, you know as this like as 80 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 4: I was in you know, looking for lemurs, and you know, 81 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 4: just like all kinds of stuff. I really try to 82 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 4: bring a fullness to it. Yeah, on season two of 83 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:38,720 Speaker 4: my podcast, I invite some of the people I know, 84 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 4: other black folks who are wildlife ecologists, to tell their stories, 85 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 4: like like their adventure stories, but also like how their 86 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:50,839 Speaker 4: blackness kind of played into that. So I have like, 87 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:57,279 Speaker 4: you know, a black hyena scientist, a black coyote scientist, 88 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:02,840 Speaker 4: a black lizard expert, a black wildlife veterinarian that's worked 89 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 4: all over at the Middle East. Like amazing, amazing, amazing people. 90 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 3: Wow, how do you deal just I'm just and I'm 91 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:14,279 Speaker 3: asking this question as because I know you being black, 92 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 3: you've got this question. How do you deal with family 93 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:19,040 Speaker 3: members and friends that are like a nigga? What you're 94 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 3: doing out there in the woods, like why you out 95 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:26,280 Speaker 3: here animals? I mean, I'm just because I know that 96 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 3: you got asked that that ignorant I ask question before oh. 97 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:35,719 Speaker 1: Which is Karen's way of asking that ignorant question. But 98 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 1: go ahead, I'm. 99 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 3: No. 100 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:41,359 Speaker 4: I mean you could imagine like I have, My whole 101 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 4: family is black, right, and so can you imagine me 102 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 4: talking to my black grandparents, you know, when I was 103 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 4: nineteen twenty years old saying I'm moving to Tanzania to 104 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 4: study lions. You know, Like so yes, like you are 105 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 4: absolutely right, Like it has not been easy to try 106 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:02,840 Speaker 4: to way in this, but part of that, honestly is 107 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 4: a failure of our society. And I don't mean Black society, 108 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 4: I mean like like kind of American society, because black 109 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 4: folks and maybe maybe everyone have kind of been taught 110 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 4: that like there's science is one thing. Like science is 111 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 4: like sitting in a laboratory with a white coat on, 112 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:28,840 Speaker 4: and like pipetting chemicals where like that's that's science. Science 113 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 4: isn't like hiking around the wilderness with wild animals, right, 114 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 4: and so it's just such a foreign concept. Yes, that, 115 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 4: like that in itself is scary, and then let alone, 116 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:43,480 Speaker 4: like it's not like I'm studying like snails and ladybugs 117 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:47,159 Speaker 4: like kind of studying these ferocious wild animals. So what 118 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:49,039 Speaker 4: I usually try to just kind of like give people 119 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 4: perspective is that like I could be a firefighter, right, 120 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:57,359 Speaker 4: I could be like you know, in the military, I 121 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:01,000 Speaker 4: could do a more dangerous job where like you know, 122 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 4: the possibility of dying is higher, but this one is 123 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 4: just so unfamiliar that like it kind of freaks people out. 124 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 1: That's great. 125 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 4: I've never been apologetic. 126 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, oh that's a great point, because like I remember 127 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 2: when I worked at Piece of Hut, they wanted me 128 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 2: to deliver pieces in the hood and I was like, 129 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 2: absolutely not. I'm just gonna work behind the counter, and 130 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 2: that has to be more dangerous than the chances of 131 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 2: me running up on a bear. Like it's it's absolutely 132 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 2: It's funny how just in my mind there's certain things 133 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 2: that I've associated with like danger, but because it's normalized 134 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 2: and like, nah, that's fine, But then if you said, 135 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 2: like let's go on a hike, I'd be like, I 136 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 2: don't know, it's mountain lions out there, you know. 137 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 4: Yes, Because it's like you think about it, like, how 138 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 4: many times do you read in the news that, like 139 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 4: someone was killed by a mountain lion, like maybe once 140 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 4: every like three or four years, But how many times 141 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 4: do you read that like someone got robbed and stabbed 142 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 4: all the time, like all time. So that's why I'm saying, 143 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 4: like it is, it's not a it's not a more 144 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 4: dangerous job than other jobs, but like there is there 145 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 4: is a lot of possibility for error in my job 146 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 4: because like I'm in places where you can't find me. 147 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 4: So it's like, let's say I even like, like you know, 148 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 4: ate something poisonous and needed help, like you, I can't 149 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 4: call an ambulance, you know, to like come get me. 150 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 4: I can't just go to a doctor. So so, for sure, 151 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 4: like there's a lot of risk in my job. But 152 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 4: I'm telling y'all, it's so fun, it's really exciting. It's 153 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 4: very healing. I spend a lot of time in nature 154 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:38,440 Speaker 4: and that is very very healing. And then when I 155 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 4: do get my hands on these wild animals, it's in 156 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 4: a safe way. Like I always have to sedate these 157 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:46,840 Speaker 4: wild animals before I approach them. So I walk around 158 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:50,080 Speaker 4: with a tranquilizer gun, and I have to say, it 159 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:53,119 Speaker 4: looks like a real gun. It looks like a scary kind. 160 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:53,480 Speaker 1: But it's not. 161 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:57,439 Speaker 4: It just shoots. It shoots tranquilizer darts. And I walk 162 00:08:57,480 --> 00:08:59,560 Speaker 4: around with that. And then if I see a wild 163 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 4: animal from Afar, I like, shoot it with the tranquilizer gun. 164 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 4: It goes down and then I approach it. 165 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 3: Wow. 166 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 4: So it's like, you know, I'm being reasonable here. 167 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 1: You can use that for people too, you know. 168 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, any person welcome. I'm not gonna see the police. 169 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 4: I would love to see the police replace listens to 170 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 4: tranquilize your darts. 171 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:25,719 Speaker 3: I would be a lot safer. Yes, I think it 172 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 3: would be a lot safer. And I think for me, 173 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:30,559 Speaker 3: the reason why I ask that question on the upfront 174 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 3: is because I think for a lot of black people 175 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 3: is coming from a safe place. Because I think for 176 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 3: a lot of black people, their whole lives is to 177 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:41,079 Speaker 3: protect me and to protect mine, to protect my family. 178 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 3: So for a lot of black people, they couldn't fathom 179 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 3: going out somewhere where you're with the danger on purpose. 180 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 3: You know. It's like we're being hunted, like you know, 181 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 3: So for us, we're like, you know what, I'm not 182 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 3: adding any more extra danger into my life. So for 183 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 3: you to do that for a lot of people is wow. 184 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 3: But I could imagine and you can it in your voice. 185 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 3: It's something where you go, Okay, this is what you 186 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 3: were called to do. You was like, this brings me. 187 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 2: I think also that that perception is changing because I 188 00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 2: believe it was Beyonce that said we're back outside and 189 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 2: you outside, but you ain't that outside. And I can't 190 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:19,439 Speaker 2: think of being nothing more of that outside than rolling 191 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 2: up on a bear, you know, to check out what's 192 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 2: going on with it. 193 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 1: So I have to. 194 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:26,720 Speaker 4: Write that down. I need to make a TikTok or something. 195 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 1: I'll link you to the YouTube we put. 196 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 3: It up, right, What are some of the scariest moments 197 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 3: that you've had in your field? Because I know doing. 198 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:43,839 Speaker 1: This, well, hold up before we get to that question. 199 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:46,199 Speaker 1: Hold on, okay, we actually have a question from the audience. 200 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 2: So the audience cast questions in the chat es Mary 201 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:50,440 Speaker 2: is asking a question. 202 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:52,560 Speaker 1: I think it kind of coincides. 203 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 2: With what you're about to ask, which is, what do 204 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 2: you do if you see a bear? I've heard three 205 00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:00,960 Speaker 2: different things to play that or a really big and 206 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 2: scary or run run I've not heard that. 207 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 3: One heard is don't run. 208 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 2: Bears run like forty miles an hour, Like, oh, you 209 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 2: can't outrun a bear. 210 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 1: That's never like if it don't come get you, it's 211 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 1: just like I was full, you know what I mean? 212 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 1: Or what like? It's not anyway. What is the best strategy? 213 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 4: Okay, first of all, I'm glad y'all know this. Never 214 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 4: run from any wild animal, okay, Like, there are very 215 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 4: few wild animals that we can outrun, Like, we can't 216 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 4: out run a dog, We can't. What makes you think 217 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:32,959 Speaker 4: you can outrun like an even bigger one? Right? Like 218 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:35,840 Speaker 4: people can run what like five six miles an hour? 219 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 4: Animals run like, yeah, we run like they run like 220 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 4: twenty five thirty forty miles an hour. So don't run, 221 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:47,680 Speaker 4: don't climb a tree, Okay, these animals are better than us. Yeah, 222 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:49,719 Speaker 4: don't jump in the water and try to swim if 223 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:53,439 Speaker 4: it ain't gonna work. So the answer to this, though, 224 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 4: is that it depends on what kind of bear you're 225 00:11:56,920 --> 00:12:02,079 Speaker 4: looking at because here in America we have three types. 226 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 4: We have black bears, brown bears, and polar bears. So 227 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 4: if it's a polar bear, just like forget about it. 228 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:12,960 Speaker 4: You might not make it. Yeah, I'm sorry. If it's 229 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:17,200 Speaker 4: a brown bear, a brown bear, or like a grizzly bear, 230 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:19,960 Speaker 4: grizzly bears are brown bears, right. Grizzly bears are what 231 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:22,240 Speaker 4: we call a subspecies of brown bears. So if it's 232 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:26,600 Speaker 4: like big and brown, it's probably a grizzly bear. And 233 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:30,719 Speaker 4: in that case, what you do is you back away slowly. 234 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 4: You back away slowly, and then this is very important. 235 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 4: Do not look the bear in its eyes. Okay, do 236 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:40,240 Speaker 4: not make eye contact because that's what prey do. You 237 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 4: ever hear like a deer in the headlights, right, like 238 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 4: the prey like freezes and lock's eyes right, So that 239 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 4: signals like I am prey and I'm freaked out. So 240 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:52,680 Speaker 4: you look like above its head, we're down at its feet. 241 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 4: But you walk away slowly and you don't make eye contact, 242 00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 4: and you just show the bear I am not here 243 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 4: to hurt you, I am leaving. I am not a threat. Okay, 244 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 4: that's with a brown bear a grizzly bear. With a 245 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 4: black bear, they're less aggressive, and so with a black 246 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 4: bear you still back away slowly. But what you can 247 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 4: do is, if you have like a jacket on or something, 248 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 4: is you like pull it over your head so you 249 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:22,320 Speaker 4: look bigger. So that way you're backing away because you're like, 250 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 4: I'm not gonna hurt you, but you're also saying, but 251 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 4: I could because I'm so big and tough. Right, So 252 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:31,200 Speaker 4: a black bear is less aggressive and they're more likely 253 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 4: to run away. But the best thing you can do, honestly, 254 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:37,440 Speaker 4: honestly is just preventative measures, right, And that's like for 255 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 4: anything like that's for public health, that's for anything, like 256 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:42,960 Speaker 4: better to prevent a bear attack than have to respond 257 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 4: to it. So if you're out in bear country and 258 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 4: you're like hiking around, go out with another person. Bear 259 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:54,200 Speaker 4: attacks almost never happen if there's two or more people. 260 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 4: Bear attacks happen when there's like someone by themselves. Okay, 261 00:13:57,800 --> 00:13:59,960 Speaker 4: so like go out with another person, you'll probably be fine. 262 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 4: But if you are by yourself, like walk around, be noisy, 263 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 4: bang some sticks together, just so you're not catching them 264 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:09,319 Speaker 4: off guard. Because bear attacks happen when bears are surprised 265 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 4: that you're there, and then they're like they freak out 266 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:14,079 Speaker 4: about it because they're like, holy shit, I was not 267 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:18,200 Speaker 4: expecting a person, right, this is unfamiliar. I'm scared, so 268 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 4: I'm gonna attack. So just like you know, be loud 269 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 4: and obnoxious when you're you know, singing to yourself, whatever 270 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 4: you want to do, and you'll probably be fine, okay. 271 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:29,400 Speaker 2: And I know polar bears don't have like any They 272 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 2: just like apex predators that have never run across something 273 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 2: they couldn't kill and eat. 274 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:37,240 Speaker 4: So it's just and that's actually all bears. So like 275 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 4: all bears are at the top of the food chain, 276 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 4: they have no natural enemies, right, Like they're just at 277 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 4: the top, so they're not afraid of people. But they 278 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 4: also just like don't want no problems. Like bears do 279 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 4: not want to fight you. They don't want to fight 280 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 4: them each other. They don't want to fight you. They 281 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 4: are territorial for a reason, like they create these territories, 282 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 4: so they just don't have to de with any problems outside. 283 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 4: I don't have the energy. I am trying to get 284 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 4: fat so I can hibernate, like that is my goal. 285 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 4: I don't want no distractions, So like, you know, the 286 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:13,360 Speaker 4: only time you're ever going to see like two bears 287 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 4: fighting is like on YouTube if you're looking for it, 288 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 4: like in the real wilderness. Like they're not They're not 289 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 4: trying to do that. They're just wanting to have an 290 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 4: easy life, eat and sleep, you know. 291 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 2: So, like, how does eruptive visit to their habitat in 292 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 2: their environment when there are people who do stuff like 293 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 2: feed bears in their backyard, you know, stuff like that. 294 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 4: Oh my god, don't do it, and then they to 295 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:40,920 Speaker 4: the house. This is like this is like my like 296 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 4: pet peeve honestly is when people habituate wild animals to 297 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 4: humans Because I'm like, we're not talking about like the 298 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 4: neighborhood cat. Like wild animals pounds hundreds of pounds, ferocious, dangerous, 299 00:15:56,640 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 4: and like they aren't trying to be like in your nameighborhood. 300 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 3: Right. 301 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 4: The only reason a bear might come in your backyard 302 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 4: is because it's hungry and it wants food. And it's 303 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 4: also realizes that humans make food more easily accessible, right, 304 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 4: because it's kind of hard to like go fishing, right, 305 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 4: Like if a bear is like wades into the water 306 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 4: and spends five hours fishing, might get a couple of 307 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 4: fish like that that's challenging, but like digging through your 308 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 4: trash can is easy. And so that's why they're coming over. 309 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 4: It's not that they like trash better. It's not like 310 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 4: you know anything like that. It's that, honestly, they're like, 311 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 4: how can I how can I like do the least 312 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:43,400 Speaker 4: amount of work but get the most calories? Right, every 313 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 4: day we make this decision where like I could go 314 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 4: to the grocery store right pick out my food and 315 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 4: I could come back and cook it, or I could 316 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 4: order delivery and do the least. 317 00:16:58,720 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 1: Like picnic baskets. 318 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 2: Cause it's like y'all just leaving them out and I'm 319 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 2: hungry and I live here. This is actually my house, right, 320 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:10,680 Speaker 2: y'all are my door dash Honestly, so I appreciate y'all literally, 321 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:11,160 Speaker 2: and so. 322 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:14,920 Speaker 4: And so so Like the great thing about bears is 323 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:17,400 Speaker 4: that they're really really smart, right, Like That's why people 324 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 4: used to put them in the circus and stuff is 325 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 4: because you can teach them very well and they can 326 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:24,359 Speaker 4: learn so as easily as bears can learn that, like 327 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 4: food is in someone at someone's house, they can unlearn that. 328 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:31,920 Speaker 4: So if you stop leaving food out, if you lock 329 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 4: up your trash can, if you put your dog's food 330 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:38,640 Speaker 4: bowl inside instead of outside, they will very quickly learn 331 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:41,159 Speaker 4: like there's no food here, and they'll stop coming and 332 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:44,080 Speaker 4: they'll go back to fishing or getting honey or whatever 333 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:46,640 Speaker 4: in the forest. So that's what everyone needs to do, 334 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:49,679 Speaker 4: is just like stop what you're doing, stop it, and 335 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 4: then let them like go back in the woods where 336 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:51,880 Speaker 4: they belong. 337 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:55,880 Speaker 2: We have another question, what has your connection with being 338 00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 2: in the wilderness done for your mental and spiritual health? 339 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:01,399 Speaker 1: That's from Misfit and wir Oh. 340 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 4: It's done a lot. It's documented. Again, I have to 341 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:07,479 Speaker 4: just chaut out. The podcast is really really really in 342 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 4: this podcast a lot of very personal stories I have. 343 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 4: You know, I've been fortunate that I haven't had tremendously 344 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:18,720 Speaker 4: traumatic events happen. But you know, I'm a like like 345 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 4: thirty seven year old woman, so like stuff's gone on, right, 346 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 4: And I've found that a lot of my experiences in 347 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:29,359 Speaker 4: nature have been very, very lengthy. So usually when I 348 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 4: go to the field, it's for like two or three 349 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:36,640 Speaker 4: months at a time, and it's a lot of like survival, right, 350 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:38,919 Speaker 4: Like I have everything I need, but I still have 351 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 4: to survive. Like I still am living in a tent, 352 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 4: you know, in a forest or a rainforest or something, 353 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 4: all by myself. And so that kind of like basic 354 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:52,439 Speaker 4: kind of primal lifestyle of like eat, sleep, survive, you know, 355 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:56,560 Speaker 4: collect my data on my animals or whatever. It allows 356 00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 4: me so much time to myself and a lot of 357 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:03,399 Speaker 4: very personal child lenges that it's been. It's been very healing. 358 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 4: It's been very very healing, just like a simple, you 359 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:12,640 Speaker 4: know lifestyle. Also, there's nothing like sitting around a fireplace, 360 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 4: you know, or around a fire campfire, you know, every 361 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:17,760 Speaker 4: night and just like thinking, get to do a lot 362 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:19,640 Speaker 4: of reading, all that kind of stuff. Now, I will 363 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:24,240 Speaker 4: say that I also like believe in therapy, and I've 364 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:27,040 Speaker 4: spent years you know, going to therap like seeing an 365 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:30,400 Speaker 4: actual therapist as well. So I'm not saying like if 366 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:33,720 Speaker 4: you have horrible trauma, go on a hike and you'll 367 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:36,679 Speaker 4: be cured. But I'm saying it's like a really really 368 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:39,960 Speaker 4: good compliment to some serious therapy, and it has helped 369 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:40,719 Speaker 4: me tremendously. 370 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:44,440 Speaker 1: You say therapy before therapy. I get it. I get it. 371 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:51,399 Speaker 3: Well, I definitely want you on my apocalypse team. Uh 372 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:54,199 Speaker 3: Me and Roger g read a study. What they would saying, 373 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:57,399 Speaker 3: like a certain percentage of Americans was like, I can 374 00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:00,159 Speaker 3: survive in the wilderness. And I looked at RYD. You're 375 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:02,920 Speaker 3: going out like they lie, I say, because most Americans, 376 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:07,920 Speaker 3: particularly if if you're not like like homeless, really don't 377 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 3: know how to quote unquote survive because all the things 378 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:15,720 Speaker 3: like running water, toilet tissue, like all the simple things 379 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:18,600 Speaker 3: that we quote unquote take for granted, you don't have. 380 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:20,960 Speaker 3: You don't know how to farm, you don't know how 381 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:23,200 Speaker 3: to plant. You're not like my grandma. And then we'll 382 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 3: be going down to going down the street when I 383 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:27,119 Speaker 3: was younger, and they'd be like, there's some greens or 384 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 3: some something I can cook. I'd be like, well, I 385 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:31,359 Speaker 3: guess I'm gonna die on top of food because I 386 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 3: don't know what's poisonous and what's not. No, don't lie yourselves, Americans. 387 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 1: I think I don't think there was a question in there. 388 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:41,639 Speaker 2: But how is the human carnivore conflict going? 389 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 1: We're winning, right, No, yeah. 390 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 4: We're winning. Yes, literally, so human carnival conflicts, so carnivores 391 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 4: like I study, you know, all the meat eating animals, 392 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:56,400 Speaker 4: and yeah, we're winning. But like not in a good way. Yeah, 393 00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 4: so a lot of people, you know. And again like 394 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:01,959 Speaker 4: like I don't want to I don't want to make 395 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 4: this all about race. But but when I say like we, yeah, 396 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:08,160 Speaker 4: I'm not talking about everyone. 397 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:13,400 Speaker 1: Are you really talking the way that I feel like men. 398 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 4: Have structured American societies? 399 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:19,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like we are seated this type of 400 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:24,119 Speaker 2: this type of expansive let's run into the woods and 401 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:27,199 Speaker 2: take it and like cut down the trees and all 402 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:29,440 Speaker 2: that stuff. I feel like we've seated that too. That's 403 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:31,399 Speaker 2: white people's territory. Like I think it's one of the 404 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 2: reasons when people hear like, oh you're you're blacking you 405 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 2: out in the woods, there's like this undercurrent of like 406 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:39,680 Speaker 2: because white people supposed to be out in the woods, 407 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:42,960 Speaker 2: it's all Steve Irwin and bear grills and. 408 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:44,399 Speaker 3: Co and stuff. 409 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, so. 410 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:51,160 Speaker 2: Even this idea of like like when I say we, yeah, 411 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:54,680 Speaker 2: I mean humans, but I mean it ain't us. 412 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 1: We don't be out there chopping out trees and bears. 413 00:21:58,840 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 1: But I live in habitats. 414 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:03,879 Speaker 3: But I'm glad and I'm thankful for the people like 415 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:05,760 Speaker 3: you who do that job, because that's how we collect 416 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:08,280 Speaker 3: the data that like you said, that's how we protect 417 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:11,600 Speaker 3: the creatures, you know, and things like that. That's how 418 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:14,879 Speaker 3: the environmentalists make their laws and rules and kind of 419 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:17,399 Speaker 3: know what to go to Congress about. So it's like 420 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:19,399 Speaker 3: these jobs are absolutely nesty. 421 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:21,880 Speaker 1: Somebody got to figure out they're endangered somebody, right. 422 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:23,760 Speaker 3: And y'all got to have numbers and statistics. You can't 423 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:26,320 Speaker 3: be looking like, oh, well, you know, the bears is 424 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:28,400 Speaker 3: just going one day. You got to have something back 425 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 3: that up. 426 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:32,640 Speaker 2: Humans are definitely the tom Brady of this conflict, right, 427 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:34,920 Speaker 2: Like we this is like our seventh super Bowl. 428 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 1: It's getting out of control. 429 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:37,439 Speaker 3: We on a street. 430 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:40,119 Speaker 4: It's yes, it's getting out of control. And let me 431 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 4: just like give an example. Right, So I do a 432 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 4: lot of work on grizzly bears in Montana, and it's 433 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:49,879 Speaker 4: very very interesting because I'm looking at like, Okay, what 434 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:52,960 Speaker 4: do grizzly bears need in Montana today? But it all 435 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:56,280 Speaker 4: stems from, you know, one hundred, one hundred and fifty 436 00:22:56,320 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 4: years ago, when like white men came through Montana and 437 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 4: killed everything, right, Like, they killed people, They kill a 438 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:08,879 Speaker 4: lot of indigenous people or tried to, and then they 439 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:12,600 Speaker 4: killed all the animals they could because they were trying 440 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:15,800 Speaker 4: to clear a path to do like ranching, like cattle 441 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:20,159 Speaker 4: ranching and farming, and so they like took land, they 442 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 4: stole land, they removed people or killed them, and then 443 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:25,439 Speaker 4: they killed all the wolves, all the bears, all the 444 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:29,480 Speaker 4: mountain lions, all the coyotes, like everything, all the elk, everything, 445 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 4: so that they could graze cattle. So here I am today, 446 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:36,679 Speaker 4: me and all my colleagues, and we're trying to like 447 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:41,400 Speaker 4: fix that. And so it's like, yeah, we have all 448 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:45,240 Speaker 4: this conflict with carnivores, but like they were there children 449 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 4: like living with indigenous groups, everyone was okay, and then 450 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:57,120 Speaker 4: like in history, like settlers like came through and destroyed 451 00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:59,680 Speaker 4: and caused like mass death, and now we're trying to 452 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:04,639 Speaker 4: kind of like correct that now with THEWS. So to me, 453 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 4: it's like to me, it's like it's science. There's a scientist, 454 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:12,480 Speaker 4: but it's also like very race based. Like I find 455 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 4: it's like definitely a social issue that isn't being addressed 456 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:19,240 Speaker 4: because I'm like like, like, can we at least acknowledge 457 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:22,240 Speaker 4: how we got to this place because we're trying to 458 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 4: make it better and we can, and we have the 459 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,200 Speaker 4: science to do that, but like can we at least 460 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,119 Speaker 4: get some acknowledgment that, like, there was a group of 461 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 4: people who did tremendous harm to other people and to 462 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:34,720 Speaker 4: the environment, and now we're. 463 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 3: In this mess right over what you're studying animals and 464 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:42,840 Speaker 3: stuff over the years, have you seen the diets of 465 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:47,119 Speaker 3: bears changed due to their proximity and their interaction with people? 466 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:49,440 Speaker 3: Because I know you were saying how they go through 467 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:51,720 Speaker 3: garbage and stuff. I was like, yeah, the sugar and 468 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 3: all that stuff, Like, I know that has got to 469 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 3: affect these animals because these are things that are abnormal 470 00:24:57,880 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 3: to just being out in force. 471 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:00,760 Speaker 5: Right. 472 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,240 Speaker 4: That is such a good question. I really love that question. 473 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:05,960 Speaker 4: So I'll shout out my podcast again. I have an 474 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 4: episode in season one of my podcasts that is really unpredictable, 475 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:12,800 Speaker 4: so I can't say too much because it'll spoil it, 476 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:16,679 Speaker 4: but it's very suspenseful and I think we called it 477 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 4: what Killed this Bear? And it's like a forensics mystery. 478 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:23,639 Speaker 4: So I found a dead bear in the forest, like 479 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,880 Speaker 4: way back in the forest, like in the Sierra Nevada mountains, right, 480 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:29,200 Speaker 4: and it was just dead. It didn't have a bullet hole, 481 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 4: and it was like unclear how it died. It was 482 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 4: freshly dead, and it was like, what is going on? 483 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 4: So me and my colleague did what we call a 484 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:40,760 Speaker 4: neck cropsy, which is like an autopsy before a wild animal. 485 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:43,120 Speaker 4: It's called a neck dropsy. So we like took out 486 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:46,600 Speaker 4: our giant knives and we just like went through and 487 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:49,960 Speaker 4: dissected this bear to try to figure out what killed it. Wow, 488 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:52,440 Speaker 4: and so it's it's such a good episode and there's 489 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:56,320 Speaker 4: this real life crazy story. But essentially it was because 490 00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,680 Speaker 4: this bear had gone through a dumpster. But I'm still 491 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:01,880 Speaker 4: I'm not gonna tell you what killed it because it was. 492 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 4: It was. It's something you will never. 493 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:07,280 Speaker 2: Guess when you found when you found the body, did 494 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:10,199 Speaker 2: you at least make a pun like, oh, this is 495 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:11,359 Speaker 2: a grizzly scene. 496 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,520 Speaker 4: That's so good, you know. I I only make bear 497 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 4: puns on accident. I'm not trying to and people will 498 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 4: be like haha, and I'm like. 499 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:35,280 Speaker 2: Oh, it's probably yeah, it's probably hacked for you to 500 00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:36,680 Speaker 2: do it. 501 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:38,520 Speaker 1: It kind of gets pretty fast. 502 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:42,359 Speaker 4: I know, I will say I will say that my 503 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:44,880 Speaker 4: like there. I have a mentor who kind of taught 504 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:47,560 Speaker 4: me anything everything. His name is John Beckman, and he 505 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 4: wrote a paper like a scientific paper about trash bears, right, 506 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:54,879 Speaker 4: because it's like most bears do not eat out of 507 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 4: people's garbage cans. It's like a couple bears every in 508 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,080 Speaker 4: every neighborhood do this. But but it's like most bears 509 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:03,159 Speaker 4: do not. Most bears you never see them. They're just 510 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,960 Speaker 4: in the woods and they're chilling. But he did a 511 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:08,760 Speaker 4: comparison on like trash bears versus what we called like 512 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:14,879 Speaker 4: backcountry bears, and we found that the trash bears, like 513 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:20,840 Speaker 4: a couple things. They are healthier and I'm using air quotes. 514 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 4: They're healthier because they get fatter and in a bear's life, 515 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:29,199 Speaker 4: unlike with people, in a bear's life, being fat is 516 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,879 Speaker 4: really really good because it helps you survive hibernation, like 517 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,800 Speaker 4: they have to. Like when they hibernate, this is like three, four, five, 518 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:40,680 Speaker 4: sometimes six months where they are not eating anything. They 519 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 4: are just like in their little den, sleeping. They don't 520 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:49,720 Speaker 4: consume any food, any water they like, I mean, it's wild, 521 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,040 Speaker 4: it's really so they just have to burn body fat 522 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:57,160 Speaker 4: for months, and so getting really really fat is very 523 00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:59,480 Speaker 4: very necessary. I mean, I imagine if people did the 524 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,159 Speaker 4: same thing, and being fat would be great, right, because 525 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:03,720 Speaker 4: like we would be like, Okay, well I need to 526 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:07,679 Speaker 4: like not eat for a happy year. So these trash 527 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:11,000 Speaker 4: bears are getting like all this junk food and it 528 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:13,360 Speaker 4: makes them really fat, and that's actually healthier for them, 529 00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:15,760 Speaker 4: and it allows them to like have a higher survival rate. 530 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:19,639 Speaker 4: But what it also did is that it brought the 531 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:25,679 Speaker 4: female bears into reproductive maturity earlier. So it was like 532 00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 4: the trash bears were like going through puberty at a 533 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 4: younger age, just. 534 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:34,120 Speaker 3: Like humans because as we put in our foods, right. 535 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:38,080 Speaker 4: Yes, yes, And so that is interesting because again for 536 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 4: a bear, like that's not necessarily bad, right, Like for 537 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 4: like humans in society, because like society can be harmful 538 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 4: to women and mothers and whatever, like that's different, but 539 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:53,520 Speaker 4: for bears it's not necessarily good or bad. It essentially 540 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:57,520 Speaker 4: means that these females will have more cubs over the 541 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 4: course of their lifetime, and like, as far as evolution goes, 542 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:03,960 Speaker 4: that's a good thing. It's like you're like evolutionarily like 543 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 4: a more powerful you know, everyone's sort of like survival 544 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 4: of the fittest, right, Like that's like if you know 545 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,120 Speaker 4: anything about evolution, you know, like survival of the fittest. 546 00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:15,040 Speaker 4: But that's the thing A lot of people think that 547 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 4: means like like fitness, like like strength and like muscles 548 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:23,640 Speaker 4: and like you know, Actually that's what it means for humans. 549 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:28,280 Speaker 4: Survival of the fittest is talking about ecological fitness, which 550 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 4: is a very distinct thing. Ecological fitness means how likely 551 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:36,040 Speaker 4: you are to pass your genes into the next generation's 552 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,800 Speaker 4: gene pool. So you are more ecologically fit if you 553 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 4: have ten babies than you are if you have three babies. Right, 554 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 4: that's fitness. So survival of the fitness means whose genes 555 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 4: are surviving generation to generation. Has nothing to do with 556 00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:54,920 Speaker 4: like your body type or like how strong you are. 557 00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:59,720 Speaker 4: So these female bears that eat garbage and get really 558 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:05,280 Speaker 4: fat are more fit than the females that don't eat 559 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 4: out of the trash can because they have more babies 560 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:10,719 Speaker 4: over the course of their life, and so the gene 561 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:12,720 Speaker 4: pool is has more of their genes in it. 562 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:14,720 Speaker 1: So we're kind of helping I explain that well enough. 563 00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:17,360 Speaker 4: I want every black person, like in the whole world 564 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:21,360 Speaker 4: to understand that survival of the fittest is actually about DNA, 565 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 4: not about like body type and like strength. 566 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:26,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that that makes total sense. 567 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:29,800 Speaker 2: And I mean it's probably just a phrase that's being 568 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,960 Speaker 2: co opted by like you know, those jam or something, 569 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:34,880 Speaker 2: and then it turns, you know, like it's a good 570 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 2: thing to put on a slow. 571 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:39,760 Speaker 4: Yeah, but runs New Year's resolution. 572 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:42,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, it's the cool postal board. 573 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,920 Speaker 2: How long have you been carnivore ecologists and what was 574 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:48,600 Speaker 2: the path to get there? 575 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:50,720 Speaker 5: Yeah? 576 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:54,960 Speaker 4: So I have been a carnivore ecologist. You know, it 577 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:58,280 Speaker 4: kind of depends on how people view it. Like a 578 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 4: lot of people are like, you're not a science until 579 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:04,400 Speaker 4: you get your PhD. So in that case, like I 580 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:08,160 Speaker 4: got my PhD in twenty fifteen. That's why I became 581 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:10,600 Speaker 4: doctor Wynn Grant. And I guess that's when I was 582 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:13,800 Speaker 4: at Carnivory Collegist. But I started studying carnivores as a 583 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:18,040 Speaker 4: college student, and it was only because I grew up 584 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,560 Speaker 4: watching nature shows. So I was born in San Francisco, 585 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 4: like in the city. San Francisco doesn't have an inner 586 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:26,160 Speaker 4: city anymore, but it did in the eighties, and so 587 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:28,720 Speaker 4: that's where I'm from. And so I grew up in 588 00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:32,400 Speaker 4: the inner city of San Francisco, and being inside was 589 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:36,360 Speaker 4: really important because outside wasn't super safe, and so I 590 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:39,920 Speaker 4: watched a lot of TV, and I loved watching nature shows, 591 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:42,160 Speaker 4: like my parents wanted me to watch the educational stuff, 592 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:44,600 Speaker 4: and I watched a lot of nature shows and I 593 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:47,720 Speaker 4: loved them. And so I grew up thinking like nature 594 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:52,280 Speaker 4: and wild animals are like like far away, like not 595 00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:55,840 Speaker 4: in California, but like like in South America and the 596 00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,680 Speaker 4: Amazon only right. Because all I knew was like the 597 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,320 Speaker 4: urban space. And so when I was a kid, I 598 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:02,840 Speaker 4: used to tell people I want to be a nature 599 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,720 Speaker 4: show host when I grow up, and everyone's kind of like, 600 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:09,520 Speaker 4: that's cute, Okay, those are fun, you know whatever, But 601 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:11,560 Speaker 4: I was still saying that when I got to college. 602 00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:13,880 Speaker 4: So I remember like the first day of college, my 603 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:15,640 Speaker 4: advisor was like, so, what do you want a major? 604 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 4: And I was like, whatever can make me a nature 605 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:18,440 Speaker 4: show host? 606 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:20,040 Speaker 1: I'm on a major. 607 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:24,160 Speaker 4: And so they were like, okay, well there's this thing 608 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:28,760 Speaker 4: called environmental science, and I'd never heard of that, and 609 00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:31,200 Speaker 4: so I was like bet all right, like all major 610 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:34,520 Speaker 4: and environmental science. I went to college at Emory University, 611 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 4: which is in Atlanta, and so again, like all I 612 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,400 Speaker 4: knew were urban spaces. I loved Atlanta, like that was 613 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:43,560 Speaker 4: my jam. And so you know. I started studying environmental 614 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:45,960 Speaker 4: science in Atlanta, and it was just okay, like it 615 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:48,560 Speaker 4: was it was all right. I kind of realized early 616 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 4: on as the only black person in my class, I 617 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,760 Speaker 4: was like, all these white kids seem to be really 618 00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:57,480 Speaker 4: familiar with the environment, Like they're not just getting this 619 00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:01,960 Speaker 4: information from the text book that were re DA power points, 620 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:05,760 Speaker 4: were looking at like they've been outside. So I realized 621 00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:07,520 Speaker 4: very quickly. I was like, oh, I need to have 622 00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:10,840 Speaker 4: a relationship with nature and the environment to actually enjoy this. 623 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:14,400 Speaker 4: So I signed up for a study of broad program. 624 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:16,400 Speaker 4: I was like, I'm going to do the most intense 625 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:20,960 Speaker 4: nature study a broad program I can find. And it 626 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,200 Speaker 4: also had to be like affordable because I had a 627 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:25,360 Speaker 4: scholarship to school, so it was like the program had 628 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:28,520 Speaker 4: to like fit within the scholarship. We couldn't pay extra. 629 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:34,920 Speaker 4: So I found this program that took me to the bush, 630 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:41,560 Speaker 4: the southern Kenya Bush, and we were living in little 631 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:46,840 Speaker 4: huts outside of a Massi village in the in the 632 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:51,200 Speaker 4: East African bush. And I moved there for a semester 633 00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:57,080 Speaker 4: and went from like well California Atlanta life to like 634 00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,920 Speaker 4: camping in the wilderness with like giraffe and elephants and 635 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:06,000 Speaker 4: lions and you know zebras and literally on my first day, 636 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:08,200 Speaker 4: like I remember, we landed at the airport and I 637 00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:11,360 Speaker 4: Robi Kenya. They picked us up a little van and 638 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,720 Speaker 4: we drove down like eight hour drive to our field site. 639 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:18,720 Speaker 4: And on the drive, I saw my first wild animal, 640 00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:21,160 Speaker 4: Like I just like, like from the road, I was like, 641 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:23,680 Speaker 4: oh my god, like that's a giraffe like that. I 642 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:25,920 Speaker 4: can't believe it. I'm seeing my first wild animal. That 643 00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,040 Speaker 4: same day, I took my first hike ever. I was 644 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:30,880 Speaker 4: twenty years old. One of my first hike, I pitched 645 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:33,360 Speaker 4: my first tent. You know, I saw my first wild animal. 646 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:36,480 Speaker 4: It all happened on the same day. And it was 647 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:38,799 Speaker 4: that day that I was like, oh, this is what 648 00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:40,600 Speaker 4: I'm gonna do, Like this is it. Like I may 649 00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:44,040 Speaker 4: never be a nature show host, we'll see, but this 650 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:45,439 Speaker 4: is what I want to do with my life. 651 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:46,680 Speaker 1: Oh what, Oh, we're. 652 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:48,880 Speaker 3: Rooted for you never give up on your dreams. So 653 00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:50,080 Speaker 3: trust I. 654 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:52,279 Speaker 4: Haven't given up. I haven't given up. I'm still try 655 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:52,879 Speaker 4: and trust me. 656 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:56,319 Speaker 3: Still, I can't wait to see your show and be like, 657 00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:56,920 Speaker 3: you know. 658 00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:59,799 Speaker 2: She was on our podcast, right, Yeah, it's gonna happen 659 00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:02,520 Speaker 2: now she was on the show. We're pretty good with that, 660 00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:04,560 Speaker 2: you know, we got we get, we get a good bump. 661 00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:05,480 Speaker 1: I mean it might be luck. 662 00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,040 Speaker 2: I don't know, it could be skill and talent and 663 00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:09,520 Speaker 2: all the work you put in. But we're gonna take 664 00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:14,399 Speaker 2: great Which Nature Show hosts like influenced you? 665 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:14,560 Speaker 4: Like? 666 00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:17,200 Speaker 2: Who were there people that you were like, Oh that's 667 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:18,759 Speaker 2: who I want to be or I want to be 668 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:19,239 Speaker 2: like that. 669 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,480 Speaker 4: Oh yeah yeah. And you know what's funny is that, 670 00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:24,799 Speaker 4: you know, often we have this narrative of like if 671 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:28,880 Speaker 4: you can't see it, you can't be it, you know, 672 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:32,080 Speaker 4: because representation is important, and I believe in that very 673 00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:35,120 Speaker 4: very very much. And I also think it's interesting because 674 00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:38,160 Speaker 4: I was inspired by these like British and Australian white 675 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:41,000 Speaker 4: guys who were very different from me, and yet I 676 00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:42,520 Speaker 4: was like, I want to do that. I want to 677 00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:45,200 Speaker 4: be like those British and Australian white guys. So you know, 678 00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:52,120 Speaker 4: David Attenborough and you know Steve Irwin, you know, and 679 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:55,719 Speaker 4: like everyone on you know, Mutual of Omahas while Kingdom, 680 00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:59,080 Speaker 4: you know, like all those guys, even you know, even 681 00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:02,799 Speaker 4: Jeff Corwin, you know, he had a great show like 682 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:05,560 Speaker 4: all of those you know, Bill Nye even he didn't 683 00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:07,719 Speaker 4: do a lot of nature, but like you know, even 684 00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:12,200 Speaker 4: Bill Knight, like all of these like middle aged Australian 685 00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:17,400 Speaker 4: British white men like really inspired me to do the 686 00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:20,799 Speaker 4: job that I do today. And I don't like, like 687 00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:23,400 Speaker 4: that's interesting. I think that's interesting that I wanted to 688 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:25,360 Speaker 4: be like that, even though they're very different from me. 689 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:27,879 Speaker 4: I think what it means is that I didn't necessarily 690 00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:30,920 Speaker 4: believe I could be like them. I knew what I 691 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:34,680 Speaker 4: wanted to do, but I didn't necessarily believe that. 692 00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:38,799 Speaker 2: I feel like everything because first black person, that's that's 693 00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:42,160 Speaker 2: what they had to do, right, Like every every first, 694 00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:45,040 Speaker 2: which we're still having in twenty twenty two, all the time, 695 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:48,799 Speaker 2: every first I had to be like I could do 696 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,640 Speaker 2: that rocket science or whatever, and now you know, and 697 00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:53,839 Speaker 2: then sixty years later we celebrate them with a movie 698 00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:57,160 Speaker 2: or whatever. But the point being like that that I 699 00:36:57,160 --> 00:36:59,359 Speaker 2: think I don't think that's unusual at all. I think 700 00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:03,879 Speaker 2: that's just more indicative of the field and the obstacles that. 701 00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:04,920 Speaker 1: We face in these fields. 702 00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:07,480 Speaker 2: When when it's like I mean, I mean we started 703 00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:11,200 Speaker 2: our podcast twelve years ago, I don't know that there 704 00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:14,640 Speaker 2: were I don't remember there being any black podcasts at 705 00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:19,400 Speaker 2: the time, Like like people search our they would search 706 00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:22,799 Speaker 2: iTunes to find our Back when you had to get 707 00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:28,320 Speaker 2: on your iPod iPods, people would search iTunes for black 708 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:30,600 Speaker 2: and that's how they found our podcasts because it just 709 00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:34,279 Speaker 2: wasn't a lot of black podcasts. So the first people 710 00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,800 Speaker 2: I remember looking up to was a white white people, 711 00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:40,799 Speaker 2: Keith and the Girls' podcast, and they did a show 712 00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:44,759 Speaker 2: out of their house and we were like, well, I 713 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:46,839 Speaker 2: was like, why can't we do that? 714 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:47,520 Speaker 1: You know what I mean? 715 00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:49,759 Speaker 2: So like it wasn't like I was trying to be 716 00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,160 Speaker 2: like them. I wasn't trying to be white. It's just 717 00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:54,520 Speaker 2: that's what podcasting was, and that's what inspired me. 718 00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:56,120 Speaker 1: So I think very. 719 00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:59,840 Speaker 2: Much that that's got to be a cycle for everybody 720 00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:02,279 Speaker 2: that kind of pushing those boundaries, and you know, we're 721 00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:05,160 Speaker 2: definitely rooting for you to get there. 722 00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:09,680 Speaker 3: We are. When you was talking about seeing your first 723 00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:15,200 Speaker 3: animal in the wild, how did that? But like this, 724 00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:19,719 Speaker 3: most people, particularly in America, see like giraffes and they 725 00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:22,840 Speaker 3: see them in like the zoo, Like how did it? 726 00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:26,280 Speaker 3: How did your mind process, Oh, this animal isn't behind bars, 727 00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:29,160 Speaker 3: this animal is just living this like like I just 728 00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:31,920 Speaker 3: wanted to know, like how did you comprehend that for 729 00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:34,000 Speaker 3: the first time, because, like I said, most of us 730 00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,399 Speaker 3: watch them and it does a protection if that makes sense, 731 00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:39,920 Speaker 3: versus you seeing them actually just living there every day 732 00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:40,800 Speaker 3: to day lives. 733 00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:45,880 Speaker 4: Mm hmmmm hmm. It was. It was amazing. It was 734 00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:48,080 Speaker 4: really it was really amazing. I felt like I had 735 00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:51,560 Speaker 4: stepped into one of those nature shows that I always 736 00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:53,880 Speaker 4: wanted to be on. And I will also say, you know, 737 00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:56,360 Speaker 4: the first wild animal that I saw that day and 738 00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:59,520 Speaker 4: Kenya wasn't wasn't a giraffe or a zebra or whatever. 739 00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:04,239 Speaker 4: It was this animal called a marabou stork. And I 740 00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:08,160 Speaker 4: feel like the world needs to talk more about marabou 741 00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:11,680 Speaker 4: storks because we're driving on the highway and so like 742 00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:16,880 Speaker 4: in the far distance, like like like half a mile away, 743 00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:21,680 Speaker 4: you could see these giant birds and marraboo stars can 744 00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:24,680 Speaker 4: be like over five feet tall, right, so they're like 745 00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:25,680 Speaker 4: the size of. 746 00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:29,120 Speaker 3: Thank you and see a line. 747 00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:32,840 Speaker 4: They are my size. And the way they walk across 748 00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:36,880 Speaker 4: the landscape, they look like velociraptors. Like you're like, this 749 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:40,160 Speaker 4: is like who, Like I thought dinosaurs were extinct because 750 00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:43,480 Speaker 4: it's they're just like this dark veloss of raptor shape 751 00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:48,240 Speaker 4: walking across the savannah. And so that was my first 752 00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:50,279 Speaker 4: impression where I was like, wait, I thought I was 753 00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:52,640 Speaker 4: gonna see an elephant, Like I thought, like, where is 754 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:55,279 Speaker 4: the rhinoceros? Like what is this? I didn't know what 755 00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:58,840 Speaker 4: it was, And so I think that had some magic 756 00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:02,359 Speaker 4: in it too, where I realized, oh, you know, the 757 00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:07,520 Speaker 4: wilderness offers so many kind of non traditional like hidden 758 00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:10,880 Speaker 4: like surprises. Right obviously, like Kenyan people know all about 759 00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:13,759 Speaker 4: mayor boose bricks, like there's you know, kind of is 760 00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:15,880 Speaker 4: full of black folks who are very in tune with 761 00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:19,560 Speaker 4: these animals. But as an a mayor, as a Black American, like, 762 00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:23,640 Speaker 4: I had no idea. I just knew like the the 763 00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:26,280 Speaker 4: you know, the zoo animals or the Nature Show animals. 764 00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:28,799 Speaker 4: So that was magical too. It was kind of like 765 00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:31,200 Speaker 4: my first moment I realized like, oh, I'm going to 766 00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:34,080 Speaker 4: discover stuff, you know, like I'm not maybe discovering it 767 00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:36,160 Speaker 4: for the world. I'm discovering it for myself and like 768 00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:38,799 Speaker 4: for my family and my girlfriends, and you know, so 769 00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:41,759 Speaker 4: I'm gonna I'm going to discover there's going to be 770 00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:44,920 Speaker 4: so much learning that happens, and that was exciting to me. 771 00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:47,160 Speaker 4: You know. I will also say it's probably obvious, but 772 00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:49,400 Speaker 4: I know, but I'm a nerd. And so like you know, 773 00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:53,080 Speaker 4: whatever you're a nerd about, right, Like, whenever you get 774 00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:55,360 Speaker 4: that spark, you really get it. It like hits you 775 00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:57,399 Speaker 4: like a ton of bricks, you know. So I am 776 00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:01,760 Speaker 4: like a wild animal nerd. So when I saw Marabou stork, 777 00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:04,839 Speaker 4: I was like, oh my god, I have a ride. 778 00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:08,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's weird that somebody fascinating. It's weird that somebody 779 00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:10,520 Speaker 1: saw stork back in the day. 780 00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:12,319 Speaker 2: And it was like we should use this as a 781 00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:16,440 Speaker 2: myth about delivering babies, right because you just I just 782 00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:20,040 Speaker 2: like described it as like very velociraptor like and somebody 783 00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:22,839 Speaker 2: was like, you know what, we should say, that's where 784 00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:25,280 Speaker 2: the baby came from. Don't tell the kids the truth, 785 00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:27,360 Speaker 2: which is wild. 786 00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:29,480 Speaker 1: Also when you're talking. 787 00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:33,000 Speaker 2: About like the kind of science you're studying, like it's 788 00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:37,440 Speaker 2: specifically with like carnivores, So what was what was it 789 00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:41,080 Speaker 2: that made you go I wanted to study the animals 790 00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:43,480 Speaker 2: that eat things. 791 00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:50,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, so this is just because I'm basic. Also, like honestly, 792 00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:51,560 Speaker 4: I don't like people ask me the all the time. 793 00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:55,080 Speaker 4: They're like, why carnivores? And I'm like, because when my 794 00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:58,560 Speaker 4: professor said what do you want to study? I said lions? 795 00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:02,080 Speaker 4: Because why wouldn't I you know, like. 796 00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:06,680 Speaker 5: I was at the time, and maybe that had been out, Yeah, 797 00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:10,839 Speaker 5: I think had been out, but like like I didn't 798 00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:12,640 Speaker 5: necessarily get I didn't necessarily. 799 00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:15,919 Speaker 4: Believe that it would happen. But someone said, like, what 800 00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:19,000 Speaker 4: do you want? And I was like, oh, I'm here, 801 00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:22,200 Speaker 4: I want to study lions. And then it did happen, 802 00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:25,640 Speaker 4: like and then that was available, and so you know, 803 00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:27,440 Speaker 4: if it, if it taught me anything, it was like 804 00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:29,640 Speaker 4: ask for what you want? 805 00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:33,600 Speaker 1: Was it like a lot of it? Are there a 806 00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:35,400 Speaker 1: lot of people that wanted to do the lions or 807 00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:37,440 Speaker 1: there like not a lot of people that wanted to 808 00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:38,920 Speaker 1: do the lions? Like how does that work? 809 00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:46,040 Speaker 4: So like in carnivore ecology, it's it's it's a competitive 810 00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:50,480 Speaker 4: enough field, right, And so again like this field kind 811 00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:53,720 Speaker 4: of got started many decades ago by like privileged white 812 00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:57,440 Speaker 4: American men, and so like the kind of the leading 813 00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:01,680 Speaker 4: lion researchers of the world are privileged white American men, 814 00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:05,600 Speaker 4: and so it just so happened that when I was 815 00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:09,960 Speaker 4: doing this study abroad program in college, all of my professors, 816 00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:14,399 Speaker 4: with four of them, they were black African men. They 817 00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:18,120 Speaker 4: were like black Kenyan men. All the students were white, 818 00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:21,080 Speaker 4: you know, all the staff like it was an American program, 819 00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:23,120 Speaker 4: but they were like black Kenyon men who had gone 820 00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:25,960 Speaker 4: off to Europe and the United States for their PhDs 821 00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:29,200 Speaker 4: and then come back. And so I was the first 822 00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:31,680 Speaker 4: black student they had ever had in this program. 823 00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:32,080 Speaker 3: Wow. 824 00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:33,759 Speaker 4: I was of course the only black student at the time. 825 00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:37,239 Speaker 4: So I actually got like special attention because these guys 826 00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:42,160 Speaker 4: were like, oh, thank god you're here. What do you 827 00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:44,920 Speaker 4: want to do. We're going to like really facilitate this 828 00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:47,680 Speaker 4: for you. And also for the first time, I got 829 00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:50,719 Speaker 4: to see people like me in this field, all right, 830 00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:53,640 Speaker 4: because like the Nature Show hosts like, we're white guys. 831 00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:55,959 Speaker 4: The you know, my professors at school were white guys. 832 00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:58,920 Speaker 4: All of my classmates were white. But for this one 833 00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:05,279 Speaker 4: semester in Africa, like my professors were black ecologists. And 834 00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:08,640 Speaker 4: so I was like, oh, apparently I can do this too, 835 00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:11,880 Speaker 4: like look at this example, and they, you know, they 836 00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:14,280 Speaker 4: helped me by just like letting me select the animal 837 00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:16,200 Speaker 4: I wanted to study. Like it wasn't a huge thing. 838 00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:18,120 Speaker 4: They could have done that no matter what racial group 839 00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:20,799 Speaker 4: I was from. But like so they like kind of 840 00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:23,520 Speaker 4: slotted me into the project that I wanted to do, 841 00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:25,359 Speaker 4: and then you know, it was on me to do 842 00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:27,560 Speaker 4: a good job. It was on me to like, you know, 843 00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:30,840 Speaker 4: be rigorous about it. But that's how I started, was 844 00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:33,840 Speaker 4: from asking what I wanted to people who cared a 845 00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:37,000 Speaker 4: lot about me. And that's how I got started. And 846 00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:40,120 Speaker 4: so I continued to study carnivores. I started with lions 847 00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:44,400 Speaker 4: in graduate school. I switched over to bears. Right now 848 00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:48,319 Speaker 4: I am a faculty member at a university and I'm 849 00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:51,960 Speaker 4: studying mountain lions and you know, I imagine I'll do 850 00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:52,600 Speaker 4: it forever. 851 00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:53,440 Speaker 1: Wow. 852 00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:56,439 Speaker 2: And did they teach you how to shoot the dart 853 00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:58,000 Speaker 2: gun or you had to learn that on your own? 854 00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:02,239 Speaker 4: Yeah? No, I was taught. I was taught for lions, 855 00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:05,360 Speaker 4: like by lion ecologists. I was taught by for bears 856 00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:08,879 Speaker 4: by like bear experts. And now I teach people. But yeah, 857 00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:11,839 Speaker 4: I didn't just inherently know how to shoot up. 858 00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:17,479 Speaker 3: I would have been out, do you make your own 859 00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:21,040 Speaker 3: franklizing stuff or does it all come like prepacked? I 860 00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:23,360 Speaker 3: know that might sound like like bullets. You know, you 861 00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:25,320 Speaker 3: don't make the bullets, but you can go buy. 862 00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:28,720 Speaker 4: Them, right, Yeah, No, we buy it, so like there's 863 00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:31,880 Speaker 4: kind of a market, Like so I usually buy it 864 00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:34,839 Speaker 4: through the wildlife agency. So in you know, in the US, 865 00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:39,480 Speaker 4: there's like every state has a wildlife department and so 866 00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:42,680 Speaker 4: like you have to work with the government in order 867 00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:45,760 Speaker 4: to get permission and permits and stuff to get the drugs. 868 00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:47,400 Speaker 4: And it's like comes in a little vile it's just 869 00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:50,400 Speaker 4: like a sedative. It's not the same that we use 870 00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:52,560 Speaker 4: for people. It's just for wild animals. And then you know, 871 00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:54,600 Speaker 4: you take your syringe and you like dip it in, 872 00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:56,600 Speaker 4: you put it in the dart, you load your darts up. 873 00:45:56,960 --> 00:45:59,000 Speaker 4: But it is like, you know, there are a lot 874 00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:01,080 Speaker 4: of checks and balances is in place, Like you have 875 00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:04,160 Speaker 4: to like have permits and then like be approved by 876 00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:06,360 Speaker 4: the state government and then have like a lot of 877 00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:07,520 Speaker 4: oversight around it. 878 00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:13,480 Speaker 2: Wow, that sounds like such a novel idea that the state, 879 00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:19,520 Speaker 2: any government would regulate who gets the cold of this 880 00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:23,200 Speaker 2: dangerous weapon that can be in that that can be 881 00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:26,480 Speaker 2: used for It just seems anyway, I don't want to 882 00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:27,080 Speaker 2: be political. 883 00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:30,200 Speaker 1: Wow, it can. 884 00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:34,120 Speaker 4: Happen very and I mean we really don't have very 885 00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:38,440 Speaker 4: many like undocumented like wild usages. 886 00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:43,520 Speaker 2: We've never I've never heard of a mass tranquilizing. No 887 00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:45,880 Speaker 2: one's run up in the school and tranquilized kids. 888 00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:48,760 Speaker 1: It just seems anyway. I don't want to get political. 889 00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:49,800 Speaker 1: We have another question. 890 00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:51,879 Speaker 3: We want to be political at all. No, we don't 891 00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:54,239 Speaker 3: have the beers talking about beer lives matter. We don't 892 00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:54,920 Speaker 3: have that problem. 893 00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:59,680 Speaker 2: You have another comment question aside this as an aside 894 00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:02,920 Speaker 2: from wan Ganghi who says, aside, did you find your 895 00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:07,280 Speaker 2: American accent cause people to treat you differently in Kenya? 896 00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:09,400 Speaker 1: And I'll just add to that, And did. 897 00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:13,000 Speaker 2: You know when you said like coming up the host 898 00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:15,080 Speaker 2: of these nature shows, I just remember my dad loves 899 00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:19,920 Speaker 2: nature docs and I just remember the voiceover ones where 900 00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:23,280 Speaker 2: one is always funny because they create like a narrative 901 00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:27,160 Speaker 2: of like, you know, this lion will call her Betty 902 00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:29,400 Speaker 2: does such? You know, like that thing, but it was 903 00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:32,680 Speaker 2: it always makes me feel like, oh yeah, a British accent, 904 00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:37,040 Speaker 2: that's what goes with this. So yeah, like how was 905 00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:39,360 Speaker 2: your how's your accent been treated? Or is that you 906 00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:40,440 Speaker 2: know even a thing for you. 907 00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:42,759 Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, I have so much to say. 908 00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:43,000 Speaker 1: Okay. 909 00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:44,480 Speaker 4: The first thing I want to say, though, like to 910 00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:48,399 Speaker 4: your point, is that over the summer, National Geographic came 911 00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:51,880 Speaker 4: out with a nature documentary. It's called America the Beautiful 912 00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:56,920 Speaker 4: and it's narrated by Michael B. Jordans and so like 913 00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:02,080 Speaker 4: kind of disrupting, yes, Bridish accent kind of thing. Michael B. 914 00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:06,879 Speaker 4: Jordan narrated America the Beautiful streaming on Disney Plus. I'm 915 00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:12,600 Speaker 4: in one of the episodes, but everyone Michael is not 916 00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:16,160 Speaker 4: in any of the episodes. He's just a narrator. H questionately, 917 00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:19,359 Speaker 4: but but yeah, so like to that point, like things 918 00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:21,759 Speaker 4: are kind of changing and we're getting other accents. But 919 00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:26,799 Speaker 4: to the reader or to the listener's question, I have 920 00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:31,879 Speaker 4: two podcast episodes from season one of Going Wild where 921 00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:36,600 Speaker 4: I talk about all of the ways that my identity 922 00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:41,239 Speaker 4: as like an African American young woman was kind of 923 00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:45,360 Speaker 4: an issue for my time in Africa. And I've lived 924 00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:47,719 Speaker 4: on and off in East Africa several times. So like 925 00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:49,960 Speaker 4: there's that first time as a student, and then like 926 00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:53,040 Speaker 4: I came back several times, and then all of the 927 00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:59,200 Speaker 4: ways that I was just like an American asshole and 928 00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:02,440 Speaker 4: made a lot of mistakes and faux pause. So it 929 00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:04,360 Speaker 4: was like both ways. There are sometimes that I was 930 00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:10,520 Speaker 4: treated really really unfairly because of my identity, even though 931 00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:14,839 Speaker 4: I was black in a black space, like it was 932 00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:21,960 Speaker 4: my americanness like kind of was a target. And then 933 00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:26,040 Speaker 4: also I guess one thing that said, I quickly learned that, 934 00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:30,239 Speaker 4: you know, if I thought being a black woman in 935 00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:34,719 Speaker 4: America was really hard and unfair, I very quickly learned 936 00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:38,360 Speaker 4: that being a black woman in parts of Africa is 937 00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:43,440 Speaker 4: harder and more unfair. So for people who did not 938 00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:48,080 Speaker 4: notice that I was American, I got treated worse right, 939 00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:50,520 Speaker 4: Like like I was just like, oh, she's like I 940 00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:53,520 Speaker 4: kind of learned very quickly, like if someone rapes and 941 00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:59,200 Speaker 4: murders me, like nothing's gonna happen. Like African women are 942 00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:02,560 Speaker 4: not like taken care of in that way. Like it's 943 00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:05,000 Speaker 4: like I'm kind of going to be disposable. But like 944 00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:08,719 Speaker 4: if someone knew I was American, maybe they'd care more. 945 00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:10,719 Speaker 4: If I was white, then it would just wouldn't happen 946 00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:11,359 Speaker 4: in the first place. 947 00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:13,520 Speaker 1: Oh no, we've seen Fox News. It'd be twenty four 948 00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:17,640 Speaker 1: to seven. Yeah, yeah, got the right wing right has 949 00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:21,239 Speaker 1: been missing. We for seventeen minutes. We going live to 950 00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:21,960 Speaker 1: handity right now. 951 00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:24,399 Speaker 3: Yeah, that little pageant girl. We've been hearing about hook 952 00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:25,360 Speaker 3: for twenty five years. 953 00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:31,520 Speaker 4: Yeah mmmmm yeah. So so again, like I have to say, 954 00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:35,200 Speaker 4: there's a lot of context to this because I also 955 00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:38,759 Speaker 4: first started traveling to East Africa, like like before the 956 00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:41,600 Speaker 4: internet was kind of ubiquitous there, right, like the Internet 957 00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:43,400 Speaker 4: existed in the States, but like I was going to 958 00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:46,480 Speaker 4: like the bush right like like like southern Kenya, like 959 00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:49,560 Speaker 4: living with people who are still living tribally, Like I 960 00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:53,160 Speaker 4: was going to those spaces so that the globalization had 961 00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:55,880 Speaker 4: not hit yet. If I go to the same spot now, 962 00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:58,040 Speaker 4: like everyone's going to be like, let me post you 963 00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:02,799 Speaker 4: on my yeah, like and show the world. So it's 964 00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:05,359 Speaker 4: very very like that nuance is different like being there 965 00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:09,719 Speaker 4: right before like smartphones and internet and kind of like 966 00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:13,600 Speaker 4: the global kind of community being connected meant that I 967 00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:16,719 Speaker 4: had a very different experience and so in a lot 968 00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:18,520 Speaker 4: of ways it wasn't good. In a lot of ways, 969 00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:21,960 Speaker 4: it was very informative. I will share that, Like I 970 00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:25,799 Speaker 4: traveled to this part of Kenya in August of two 971 00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:30,880 Speaker 4: thousand and five, and that was right before Hurricane Katrina. Happened, 972 00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:35,120 Speaker 4: And so I did not know that Hurricane Katrina happened 973 00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:38,680 Speaker 4: because I couldn't. I was not connected to the world, right, 974 00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:41,080 Speaker 4: Like my parents had to write letters. They had to travel, 975 00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:44,040 Speaker 4: you know, from America to Africa to Nairobi, and then 976 00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:46,319 Speaker 4: like every month, someone would drive up to Nairobi and 977 00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:48,480 Speaker 4: get letters and then bring them down. We'd read it, 978 00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:50,279 Speaker 4: and then we'd write back and then go back. So 979 00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:53,080 Speaker 4: it was like a three month turnaround to even communicate. 980 00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:56,000 Speaker 4: So it took so long for me to learn the 981 00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:59,839 Speaker 4: Hurricane Katrina happened that when I did learn it, like 982 00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:02,840 Speaker 4: I remember, I had made friends with all these like 983 00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:08,319 Speaker 4: Massi folks, and they, like I had a Time magazine. 984 00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:12,120 Speaker 4: My parents sent Time magazine that had like just the 985 00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:15,680 Speaker 4: image of like, you know, bodies floating in the water, 986 00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:18,560 Speaker 4: you know, like black A thousand black people were dead, 987 00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:22,000 Speaker 4: you know, because of like George Bush's or you know, 988 00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:26,879 Speaker 4: the government's response. And they were asking me, They're like, wait, 989 00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:28,960 Speaker 4: you spent the last three months telling us that like 990 00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:32,040 Speaker 4: things are good for black folks in America that like, 991 00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:34,319 Speaker 4: you know, like so how do you explain like a 992 00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:38,640 Speaker 4: thousand people like drowning when like a thousand white people 993 00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:42,239 Speaker 4: did not, you know, So it was very very interesting 994 00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:46,759 Speaker 4: that race came up so much even though we were 995 00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:50,920 Speaker 4: all black, right, like, like having to like discuss and 996 00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:55,160 Speaker 4: articulate like race like was a big part of my experience, 997 00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:57,640 Speaker 4: while I was also like, you know, learning about wildlife 998 00:52:57,680 --> 00:52:59,840 Speaker 4: for the first time, really really interesting stuff. 999 00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:00,360 Speaker 1: Wow. 1000 00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:03,239 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's that's interesting too, because that means you 1001 00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:08,200 Speaker 2: didn't know. Kanye West said that George care about black 1002 00:53:08,239 --> 00:53:11,880 Speaker 2: people Kanye, which is how he came to like everybody 1003 00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:14,200 Speaker 2: loving him like that. And then when he ran up 1004 00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:16,600 Speaker 2: on Taylor Swift, which I still don't forgive, but whatever. 1005 00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:20,160 Speaker 1: But yeah, then so now you don't have to like. 1006 00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:22,399 Speaker 2: Be disappointed because you know, you never had to fall 1007 00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:24,120 Speaker 2: in love with them at the Katrina. 1008 00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:25,760 Speaker 1: So it's kind of a blessing in disguise. 1009 00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:27,880 Speaker 2: You gotta look at the the good side and the 1010 00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:29,000 Speaker 2: backside of it. 1011 00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:32,080 Speaker 4: I have been on a Kanye emotional roller coaster. 1012 00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:36,359 Speaker 2: Man, what listen, do you wrap your hair up when 1013 00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:39,200 Speaker 2: you go like in the woods, Like, how like are 1014 00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:42,920 Speaker 2: do you bring like a silk pillow from her? How? 1015 00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:44,360 Speaker 1: How does that work? 1016 00:53:45,239 --> 00:53:45,520 Speaker 3: Yeah? 1017 00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:53,799 Speaker 4: I I braid my hair for sure. It's almost always okay, 1018 00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:56,439 Speaker 4: because okay, like I know that there are women out 1019 00:53:56,480 --> 00:53:58,520 Speaker 4: and black women out there who like take really good 1020 00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:01,400 Speaker 4: care of their hair when it's inbraids. I do not. Okay, 1021 00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:03,359 Speaker 4: I do not take good care of my hair when 1022 00:54:03,360 --> 00:54:06,239 Speaker 4: it's braided. I ignore it. I don't wash it for 1023 00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:10,200 Speaker 4: the most part. Like okay, like I know, like it's 1024 00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:12,319 Speaker 4: like I'll step it up one day, but it's very 1025 00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:15,400 Speaker 4: convenient for me to be like braids in I'll you 1026 00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:20,000 Speaker 4: in two months, right, So that's my IMMO. The only 1027 00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:22,840 Speaker 4: time it was not a good choice was when I 1028 00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:26,200 Speaker 4: was doing some work in Madagascar. I was living in 1029 00:54:26,200 --> 00:54:28,600 Speaker 4: a rainforest for five weeks in Madagascar, trying to find 1030 00:54:28,600 --> 00:54:33,399 Speaker 4: some lemurs. And you know, again, the tropics are really different, right. 1031 00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:36,600 Speaker 4: It's like wet, it's humid, and it's constantly raining, and 1032 00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:40,080 Speaker 4: there are these things called tree leeches. Okay, we all 1033 00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:43,600 Speaker 4: know about leeches, right, but in Madagascar there's tree leaches 1034 00:54:43,640 --> 00:54:47,080 Speaker 4: and they're up in the tree canopy, right, And because 1035 00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:51,120 Speaker 4: it rains so much, the rain slides the leeches off, 1036 00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:55,319 Speaker 4: and then they fall onto your head and like down 1037 00:54:55,360 --> 00:55:00,200 Speaker 4: your shirt and like in the crannies of your body, 1038 00:55:00,560 --> 00:55:03,480 Speaker 4: and they're leeches. So you can't feel them when they 1039 00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:07,240 Speaker 4: bite you and start sucking your blood, so you really 1040 00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:09,680 Speaker 4: just like you don't know they're there. So when I 1041 00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:14,120 Speaker 4: had braids in Madagascar, it was a big problem because 1042 00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:16,480 Speaker 4: they're small. Tree leaches are itty bitty, so like they 1043 00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:24,520 Speaker 4: were just like in it was like a horror movie. 1044 00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:26,800 Speaker 4: But my real life it was, oh no. 1045 00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:29,000 Speaker 3: Do you find them when you're just looking in there 1046 00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:31,120 Speaker 3: all over your body? That's what you say. I had. 1047 00:55:31,239 --> 00:55:33,200 Speaker 4: I had to get a friend. I had to get 1048 00:55:33,200 --> 00:55:37,680 Speaker 4: a buddy. Okay, unfortunately a white person, all right, and 1049 00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:41,400 Speaker 4: they had to like, yes, yep, there they are. Oh no, 1050 00:55:42,560 --> 00:55:44,360 Speaker 4: they had to kind of dig through my hair and 1051 00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:46,040 Speaker 4: then pull them out one at a time. And that's 1052 00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:48,440 Speaker 4: when you can feel it because they're like stuck. They're 1053 00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:50,080 Speaker 4: like mouths are like stuck in you. 1054 00:55:50,600 --> 00:55:56,080 Speaker 2: Oh nope, Oh my god, why don't they just stay 1055 00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:58,960 Speaker 2: in the water what they're supposed to be my business? 1056 00:55:59,040 --> 00:55:59,400 Speaker 1: Leeches? 1057 00:56:00,160 --> 00:56:03,480 Speaker 2: Never heard of a tree LEAs that you used to 1058 00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:04,200 Speaker 2: We don't need that. 1059 00:56:04,400 --> 00:56:06,680 Speaker 4: I also had not heard of true leeches, like I 1060 00:56:06,719 --> 00:56:10,040 Speaker 4: had had leeches on my body like a minrmal field 1061 00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:13,040 Speaker 4: by just like plenty of times where you just like 1062 00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:15,399 Speaker 4: it's gross, but you can like pull it all right. 1063 00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:19,319 Speaker 4: Your skin hair was a whole new level. I have 1064 00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:23,040 Speaker 4: not been back to the rainforest of Madagascar. I don't 1065 00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:23,680 Speaker 4: know if I will. 1066 00:56:23,960 --> 00:56:29,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, i'd definitely be wearing a hoodie or something. And like, so, 1067 00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:33,959 Speaker 2: what's the wildest like thing out there that that you've 1068 00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:37,480 Speaker 2: experienced with it with that type of like not like 1069 00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:41,719 Speaker 2: a predator, like a bear something, but like parasites Like 1070 00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:44,960 Speaker 2: you just say you had leeches on you tigs, Like 1071 00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:46,360 Speaker 2: what else is out there? 1072 00:56:47,719 --> 00:56:49,920 Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, it's the little things, you know. I 1073 00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:52,520 Speaker 4: have again my podcast, like because all these stories are 1074 00:56:52,600 --> 00:56:56,040 Speaker 4: my podcast. So actually, the most popular episode we have 1075 00:56:56,200 --> 00:56:59,479 Speaker 4: so far is from season one. It's called Near Death 1076 00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:02,359 Speaker 4: e Sphere. I talk about all the times I almost died. 1077 00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:04,520 Speaker 4: But a lot of people think it's because, like, you know, 1078 00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:08,000 Speaker 4: a bear attack me. I do have like bear stories 1079 00:57:08,120 --> 00:57:11,400 Speaker 4: in that episode, But the craziest stories are from the 1080 00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:14,400 Speaker 4: little things. There's stories about like like putting on my 1081 00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:18,560 Speaker 4: boot and like almost stepping into a scorpion. Horror stories 1082 00:57:18,600 --> 00:57:22,720 Speaker 4: about like, you know, I had this horrible moment with 1083 00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:26,480 Speaker 4: what we call a red spitting cobra. Oh so you know, 1084 00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:28,880 Speaker 4: like Cobra's like cobra's always in like cartoons and stuff, 1085 00:57:28,880 --> 00:57:31,800 Speaker 4: and they have like that hood yeah in their head, 1086 00:57:32,160 --> 00:57:35,800 Speaker 4: and they come up like this, and red spinning cobras 1087 00:57:35,840 --> 00:57:40,680 Speaker 4: have these fangs and they shoot venom, but they aim 1088 00:57:40,760 --> 00:57:44,360 Speaker 4: for your eyes and so they they shoot venom at 1089 00:57:44,360 --> 00:57:46,880 Speaker 4: your eyes and then you go blind and then you 1090 00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:50,120 Speaker 4: can't see anything. You fall over and then they kill you. 1091 00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:55,439 Speaker 4: And I have had a horrifying moment whether a red 1092 00:57:55,480 --> 00:58:00,200 Speaker 4: spinning cobra. Yeah, that is not what you want. Like 1093 00:58:00,240 --> 00:58:03,840 Speaker 4: they shoot, yeah, you see shooting that venom. Yeah, they 1094 00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:05,400 Speaker 4: can hit you right in your eyes. 1095 00:58:05,680 --> 00:58:07,560 Speaker 1: Yep, that is not the business. 1096 00:58:07,720 --> 00:58:10,960 Speaker 3: Oh no, it's so somebody studied them too, No, thank you. 1097 00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:15,360 Speaker 2: Hopefully they wearing goggles if. 1098 00:58:15,240 --> 00:58:16,200 Speaker 1: They set handles. 1099 00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:19,600 Speaker 2: Did you were you like working with that or that 1100 00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:22,640 Speaker 2: you just were working on something else and then show up. 1101 00:58:23,040 --> 00:58:25,760 Speaker 4: No, No, I was studying lions. Yeah, I was just lions. 1102 00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:28,400 Speaker 4: But there was like a cobra slithered into my tent 1103 00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:32,400 Speaker 4: and I asked for help to get it out, like 1104 00:58:32,440 --> 00:58:37,560 Speaker 4: I was with the team actually of black Tanzanian ecologists, 1105 00:58:37,600 --> 00:58:39,680 Speaker 4: and so you know, one of the guys was like, sure, 1106 00:58:39,720 --> 00:58:43,640 Speaker 4: I'll help you, and and it was yeah, an episode 1107 00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:45,840 Speaker 4: but it was how do you it was a really 1108 00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:46,640 Speaker 4: bad moment. 1109 00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:48,680 Speaker 1: How did you ask for help? Was it like calm 1110 00:58:48,760 --> 00:58:49,440 Speaker 1: or were you yelling? 1111 00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:52,680 Speaker 4: No? I was calm because like every so often we 1112 00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:54,760 Speaker 4: you know, we all get snakes in our tents. Yea, 1113 00:58:55,320 --> 00:58:58,200 Speaker 4: but I just like I had this. This is one 1114 00:58:58,200 --> 00:59:00,640 Speaker 4: of the snakes. 1115 00:59:03,160 --> 00:59:05,840 Speaker 1: It was like, oh yeah, he had over venom in 1116 00:59:05,840 --> 00:59:08,360 Speaker 1: his eyes. He died immediately. He was yelling in the 1117 00:59:08,400 --> 00:59:09,720 Speaker 1: middle of the in the middle of. 1118 00:59:09,720 --> 00:59:14,760 Speaker 4: The nos and attracted all the tell people like I do. 1119 00:59:14,840 --> 00:59:16,959 Speaker 4: Tell people. They're like, aren't you scared of the lines whatever? 1120 00:59:17,000 --> 00:59:19,120 Speaker 4: I'm like, yes, of course I am. Of course I am. 1121 00:59:19,200 --> 00:59:21,640 Speaker 4: Like I'm also scared of an elephant stepping on my 1122 00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:23,800 Speaker 4: tent in the middle of the night and smashing me. 1123 00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:26,240 Speaker 4: I'm scared of all these things a little bit, but 1124 00:59:26,320 --> 00:59:30,240 Speaker 4: like really, like a mosquito will take you out. Yeah, 1125 00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:34,000 Speaker 4: you get malaria, and like it could be over real quick. 1126 00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:37,520 Speaker 4: So it's like the little things you know, or like, 1127 00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:40,520 Speaker 4: or like the invisible parasits like I had e COLEI 1128 00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:42,840 Speaker 4: I had gard like the little thing. 1129 00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:47,680 Speaker 2: Yes, when you talked about being a nerd, do you 1130 00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:50,760 Speaker 2: mean like the old school version of nerd? Like that 1131 00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:52,360 Speaker 2: I grew up with because I feel like being a 1132 00:59:52,360 --> 00:59:54,960 Speaker 2: nerd is changed in my lifetime and now it just 1133 00:59:55,000 --> 00:59:58,160 Speaker 2: mean like Marvel movies and you like go watch Star 1134 00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:01,320 Speaker 2: Wars and stuff like that them the safe. So yeah, 1135 01:00:01,600 --> 01:00:03,640 Speaker 2: so like, are you like an old school nerd where 1136 01:00:03,640 --> 01:00:06,160 Speaker 2: it's like I like to read and that type of stuff. 1137 01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:07,720 Speaker 1: Where you like, are you or do you watch? 1138 01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:11,400 Speaker 2: Uh you know all this all this nerdy stuff that's 1139 01:00:11,440 --> 01:00:12,560 Speaker 2: like pop culture stuff. 1140 01:00:13,680 --> 01:00:17,040 Speaker 4: Okay, So I guess I'm more of the old school 1141 01:00:17,120 --> 01:00:20,520 Speaker 4: nerd because I like, like, Okay, so my husband is 1142 01:00:20,520 --> 01:00:23,040 Speaker 4: a nerd nerd like the current nerd. He's like a 1143 01:00:23,080 --> 01:00:31,520 Speaker 4: real black nerd like Marvel superheroes play video games. He 1144 01:00:31,600 --> 01:00:34,840 Speaker 4: doesn't play video guess, but I bet if like he might, 1145 01:00:35,080 --> 01:00:38,360 Speaker 4: he might when I'm not looking like like like I 1146 01:00:38,360 --> 01:00:40,840 Speaker 4: think he wants me to think I'm He wants me 1147 01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:43,520 Speaker 4: to think he's cool, so he might not, but but 1148 01:00:43,600 --> 01:00:48,280 Speaker 4: he might. But uh, but he's a real nerd. So 1149 01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:53,200 Speaker 4: like one of our first times hanging out together was 1150 01:00:54,440 --> 01:00:57,560 Speaker 4: to see Black Panther, the first one when I came 1151 01:00:57,600 --> 01:00:59,960 Speaker 4: out because we had hung out, like we met a 1152 01:01:00,080 --> 01:01:01,720 Speaker 4: work and stuff, so we had like hung out before. 1153 01:01:01,800 --> 01:01:04,080 Speaker 4: But like he invited me out, and he was like 1154 01:01:04,680 --> 01:01:06,400 Speaker 4: he made it very clear. He was like, if you 1155 01:01:07,240 --> 01:01:13,320 Speaker 4: don't fucking appreciate advance, he was like he's like, I 1156 01:01:13,320 --> 01:01:17,040 Speaker 4: am not like, yeah, we are, just like he was like, 1157 01:01:17,200 --> 01:01:19,520 Speaker 4: I'm not saying go see the movie and then you appreciate. 1158 01:01:19,560 --> 01:01:22,720 Speaker 4: He's like, you better appreciate this in advance. Like he 1159 01:01:22,800 --> 01:01:26,000 Speaker 4: made me prove to him that I was worthy of 1160 01:01:26,120 --> 01:01:28,240 Speaker 4: going to see Black Panther because he got. 1161 01:01:28,120 --> 01:01:29,280 Speaker 3: Will not disappoint me. 1162 01:01:30,120 --> 01:01:32,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, Like it was like he was like he's like, 1163 01:01:32,120 --> 01:01:34,880 Speaker 4: and my friends are coming and there were all nerds. 1164 01:01:35,200 --> 01:01:37,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's kind of it's kind of unfair because you 1165 01:01:37,520 --> 01:01:39,400 Speaker 2: can't do the same thing to him, right, Like you 1166 01:01:39,440 --> 01:01:42,600 Speaker 2: can't be like we are going to see some lions 1167 01:01:42,640 --> 01:01:45,080 Speaker 2: and if you don't appreciate this before we even get 1168 01:01:45,120 --> 01:01:46,760 Speaker 2: to the camp, don't. 1169 01:01:46,600 --> 01:01:49,160 Speaker 3: You embarrass me in front of my African friends and 1170 01:01:49,200 --> 01:01:51,200 Speaker 3: ship the lions. 1171 01:01:51,200 --> 01:01:53,640 Speaker 1: Like it's like like that can't be reasonable. 1172 01:01:53,720 --> 01:01:58,640 Speaker 4: But not that I'm like, I like I I don't 1173 01:01:58,680 --> 01:02:02,000 Speaker 4: spend my time like you know in these different like 1174 01:02:02,240 --> 01:02:06,880 Speaker 4: fandom ry versus and stuff. But and part of it 1175 01:02:06,920 --> 01:02:11,080 Speaker 4: is because like I like I the entertainment I like 1176 01:02:11,160 --> 01:02:15,600 Speaker 4: is actually like like very glamorous, like very superficial, very glamorous, 1177 01:02:15,600 --> 01:02:19,720 Speaker 4: like I love me a good reality show about women 1178 01:02:20,160 --> 01:02:23,600 Speaker 4: who just like wear makeup at outfits and he yes, 1179 01:02:23,720 --> 01:02:26,080 Speaker 4: like I like that, And I think it's because it's 1180 01:02:26,120 --> 01:02:28,600 Speaker 4: the exact opposite of my real life. Like I spend 1181 01:02:28,640 --> 01:02:31,240 Speaker 4: so much time like pulling tree leeches off of my 1182 01:02:31,360 --> 01:02:34,760 Speaker 4: scalp that I'm like, I actually want my escapism to 1183 01:02:34,840 --> 01:02:38,600 Speaker 4: be something that's like glamour, and like. 1184 01:02:38,160 --> 01:02:42,280 Speaker 2: Honestly, it's the exact opposite of all our lives. Okay, 1185 01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:45,120 Speaker 2: none of us can be the Real Housewives of Atlanta. 1186 01:02:45,160 --> 01:02:48,600 Speaker 2: We're all just having the opposite experience of Kenya. 1187 01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:53,680 Speaker 3: Okay, how has like. 1188 01:02:54,520 --> 01:02:58,760 Speaker 2: Because I mean, I'm sure it's always been like political, right, 1189 01:02:58,880 --> 01:03:02,760 Speaker 2: because our experience as Americans, your experience as a warming 1190 01:03:02,840 --> 01:03:07,000 Speaker 2: experience as a black person. But throughout the last probably 1191 01:03:07,240 --> 01:03:10,080 Speaker 2: at least six years, I'd say a little bit longer, 1192 01:03:10,520 --> 01:03:13,040 Speaker 2: but I feel like a lot of stuff is just 1193 01:03:13,240 --> 01:03:15,800 Speaker 2: that used to be considered not political has become political. 1194 01:03:15,880 --> 01:03:19,840 Speaker 2: So like PBS political now you know to people NPR, 1195 01:03:20,080 --> 01:03:22,200 Speaker 2: like there's a there's a party that wants to cut 1196 01:03:22,240 --> 01:03:25,960 Speaker 2: the funding to these institutions and. 1197 01:03:25,880 --> 01:03:28,920 Speaker 1: They do good work and they work in facts. 1198 01:03:28,600 --> 01:03:32,440 Speaker 2: And I put only put facts in quotes because some 1199 01:03:32,440 --> 01:03:34,680 Speaker 2: people out there don't believe in that anymore. 1200 01:03:34,960 --> 01:03:38,640 Speaker 1: So, like, has have you seen that creep into what 1201 01:03:38,680 --> 01:03:39,200 Speaker 1: you do? 1202 01:03:39,480 --> 01:03:43,080 Speaker 2: Or is it still uh you being a person that's 1203 01:03:43,360 --> 01:03:45,720 Speaker 2: more out in the in the wild, is it is 1204 01:03:45,760 --> 01:03:50,320 Speaker 2: it less political than the other stuff that people find polarizing? 1205 01:03:51,480 --> 01:03:51,720 Speaker 3: You know? 1206 01:03:51,880 --> 01:03:54,800 Speaker 4: That is such an interesting question. And again like this, 1207 01:03:55,160 --> 01:03:56,960 Speaker 4: like I know what you're saying, And again I just 1208 01:03:57,040 --> 01:03:59,160 Speaker 4: I always want to highlight race because like this isn't 1209 01:03:59,160 --> 01:04:02,000 Speaker 4: an issue for black folks in general, right, like, like 1210 01:04:02,040 --> 01:04:06,440 Speaker 4: we're pretty like consistently like left leaning, like democrat like, 1211 01:04:06,840 --> 01:04:12,240 Speaker 4: but but what's interesting is that like the environment has 1212 01:04:12,320 --> 01:04:15,640 Speaker 4: become politicized. It's like for some reason, like caring about 1213 01:04:15,720 --> 01:04:19,880 Speaker 4: the environment where we all depend on where we live 1214 01:04:20,080 --> 01:04:25,200 Speaker 4: this planet is like being left you know liberal, and 1215 01:04:25,360 --> 01:04:30,240 Speaker 4: like destroying it for short term gain is like, you 1216 01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:34,400 Speaker 4: know conservative. And that's super weird to me, especially because 1217 01:04:34,520 --> 01:04:38,960 Speaker 4: especially because like now that I study a lot of 1218 01:04:39,000 --> 01:04:42,560 Speaker 4: like bears and mountain lions in North America, like I 1219 01:04:42,600 --> 01:04:45,520 Speaker 4: spend all this time and like the Western United States, 1220 01:04:45,520 --> 01:04:48,080 Speaker 4: like I like spend a lot of time in Montana stuff, 1221 01:04:48,120 --> 01:04:49,560 Speaker 4: and like I spent a lot of time with these 1222 01:04:49,600 --> 01:04:54,960 Speaker 4: like outdoorsy like white folks where it's like if you're 1223 01:04:55,000 --> 01:04:58,080 Speaker 4: in the outdoors and you're dressed in all the gear 1224 01:04:58,440 --> 01:05:01,840 Speaker 4: and you're like hiking around, and somehow that's scene as 1225 01:05:01,880 --> 01:05:05,520 Speaker 4: being like like political and the like right leaning like 1226 01:05:05,600 --> 01:05:08,800 Speaker 4: conservative white left right. But if I say, like I 1227 01:05:09,040 --> 01:05:14,080 Speaker 4: care about this animal or this tree or this soil, 1228 01:05:14,360 --> 01:05:16,960 Speaker 4: like all of a sudden, that's like, yeah, so it's 1229 01:05:16,960 --> 01:05:20,280 Speaker 4: this really weird thing where I'm like, we're all here. 1230 01:05:21,040 --> 01:05:23,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not out here to oh you're not going to. 1231 01:05:26,240 --> 01:05:29,520 Speaker 4: It's like, oh, you're not hunting, like so a lot 1232 01:05:29,560 --> 01:05:31,880 Speaker 4: of so it's interesting because if you say conservation, there 1233 01:05:31,880 --> 01:05:34,520 Speaker 4: will be a lot of white folks, like I should say, 1234 01:05:34,560 --> 01:05:37,880 Speaker 4: like like conservative folks who'll be like, I believe in conservation. 1235 01:05:38,160 --> 01:05:40,960 Speaker 4: I want to keep wild animals around because I love 1236 01:05:41,000 --> 01:05:43,840 Speaker 4: to hunt. I can't hunt if there's no wild animals. 1237 01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:46,160 Speaker 4: So let's keep enough of them around so that we 1238 01:05:46,200 --> 01:05:49,320 Speaker 4: can hunt and have fun, right, And I guess like 1239 01:05:50,280 --> 01:05:52,439 Speaker 4: in those areas like maybe our idea is a line, 1240 01:05:52,440 --> 01:05:55,000 Speaker 4: I'm like I want to keep them around too, like 1241 01:05:55,160 --> 01:05:59,840 Speaker 4: not to kill them for fun, but like just so they. 1242 01:05:59,720 --> 01:06:02,920 Speaker 3: Can the ecosystem functions, and yeah. 1243 01:06:02,760 --> 01:06:05,640 Speaker 4: Like exactly, like give us like fresh air and water. Yes, 1244 01:06:06,720 --> 01:06:09,080 Speaker 4: So it's really I was just gonna. 1245 01:06:08,920 --> 01:06:12,240 Speaker 2: Say, did the pandemic come into play at all with 1246 01:06:12,840 --> 01:06:17,560 Speaker 2: because I feel like outdoors was considered pretty safe. I 1247 01:06:17,560 --> 01:06:20,080 Speaker 2: mean still it's the safest of the places to be, 1248 01:06:21,440 --> 01:06:24,280 Speaker 2: but like, does does that come into any play? 1249 01:06:24,320 --> 01:06:27,040 Speaker 1: Because also I know there's like an overlap with. 1250 01:06:27,360 --> 01:06:31,040 Speaker 2: People outdoorsy people and and and conservative people and stuff 1251 01:06:31,080 --> 01:06:33,640 Speaker 2: with the s ain't real it's all I don't know, 1252 01:06:33,680 --> 01:06:37,520 Speaker 2: a plandemic and ship like that. And then then obviously 1253 01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:41,480 Speaker 2: being in science being a doctor is like you have 1254 01:06:41,560 --> 01:06:43,520 Speaker 2: to you have to deal with the fact that you 1255 01:06:43,560 --> 01:06:46,439 Speaker 2: know it is real, and so like does that come 1256 01:06:46,520 --> 01:06:49,120 Speaker 2: up with with you being with around all these people? 1257 01:06:51,440 --> 01:06:54,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, I have to say that I have lately and 1258 01:06:54,880 --> 01:06:56,800 Speaker 4: really in like the last couple of years, had to 1259 01:06:56,880 --> 01:07:02,320 Speaker 4: just kind of step away from conflict and confrontation just 1260 01:07:02,360 --> 01:07:04,640 Speaker 4: to protect my energy. And I never thought I'd be 1261 01:07:04,680 --> 01:07:06,320 Speaker 4: that person. I was always like, I'm gonna, you know, 1262 01:07:06,400 --> 01:07:08,320 Speaker 4: I have the energy to like, you know, speak the 1263 01:07:08,400 --> 01:07:10,920 Speaker 4: truth and get these people to see you out. And 1264 01:07:10,960 --> 01:07:13,440 Speaker 4: I've lately had to had to be like I I 1265 01:07:13,440 --> 01:07:16,160 Speaker 4: have to take care of myself, and it's rely part 1266 01:07:16,200 --> 01:07:20,640 Speaker 4: of my self care is not engaging in these conversations. 1267 01:07:21,120 --> 01:07:23,440 Speaker 4: So that's definitely a new thing. But it did come 1268 01:07:23,520 --> 01:07:25,400 Speaker 4: as a result of me spending so much time in 1269 01:07:25,440 --> 01:07:30,360 Speaker 4: Montana where I was like, I just want I just 1270 01:07:30,400 --> 01:07:32,440 Speaker 4: want to do my work. I never thought I just 1271 01:07:32,520 --> 01:07:35,640 Speaker 4: want to I want to do my job and not 1272 01:07:36,040 --> 01:07:41,440 Speaker 4: have to defend like like kind of basic social values 1273 01:07:41,640 --> 01:07:44,760 Speaker 4: of people or of the world. Like thank me later 1274 01:07:44,880 --> 01:07:49,760 Speaker 4: when I saved this entire landscape from crumbling for destruction, 1275 01:07:50,280 --> 01:07:52,720 Speaker 4: Like maybe we can talk then, but like for now, 1276 01:07:52,840 --> 01:07:55,280 Speaker 4: I just need to, like cause it's like it's it's 1277 01:07:55,720 --> 01:07:59,880 Speaker 4: it's crazy out there. It is crazy. That's like I 1278 01:08:00,200 --> 01:08:02,720 Speaker 4: want black folks to get out to recreate in nature 1279 01:08:02,760 --> 01:08:06,640 Speaker 4: all these spaces, but I also want people to do 1280 01:08:06,800 --> 01:08:10,600 Speaker 4: it in safe spaces that are like socially safe spaces, right, 1281 01:08:10,760 --> 01:08:13,280 Speaker 4: And there are some places that I infiltrate that I 1282 01:08:13,400 --> 01:08:15,240 Speaker 4: do not think are safe. I mean, and even during 1283 01:08:15,320 --> 01:08:19,120 Speaker 4: the pandemic, you know, we had someone like Ahmad Aubrey, 1284 01:08:19,680 --> 01:08:21,880 Speaker 4: you know, killed while in the outdoors, and I know 1285 01:08:21,960 --> 01:08:24,560 Speaker 4: he wasn't like on a hyphdeers on a job this 1286 01:08:24,800 --> 01:08:30,240 Speaker 4: little area and was just shot dead by white supremacists, right, 1287 01:08:30,439 --> 01:08:32,960 Speaker 4: you know, who are just like out having fun killing people. 1288 01:08:33,120 --> 01:08:35,639 Speaker 4: So you know it is as much as I want 1289 01:08:35,680 --> 01:08:38,280 Speaker 4: black people to get those mental health benefits from being 1290 01:08:38,360 --> 01:08:41,639 Speaker 4: in nature, we still need to be strategic about where 1291 01:08:41,840 --> 01:08:44,519 Speaker 4: we do that, and the white community still needs to 1292 01:08:44,600 --> 01:08:48,040 Speaker 4: step up and make sure the outdoors is an inclusive 1293 01:08:48,120 --> 01:08:49,679 Speaker 4: and safe space for all kinds of people. 1294 01:08:50,000 --> 01:08:53,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, but you're doing your traveling and you may not 1295 01:08:53,439 --> 01:08:56,439 Speaker 3: have an answer to this, but I'm asking anyway for 1296 01:08:56,640 --> 01:09:00,640 Speaker 3: people that are like, well, I want to go out 1297 01:09:00,680 --> 01:09:02,000 Speaker 3: of nature, but I know for a lot of black 1298 01:09:02,000 --> 01:09:03,320 Speaker 3: people to go, well, I don't go out of nature 1299 01:09:03,320 --> 01:09:05,400 Speaker 3: because I don't trust white people. They most get them 1300 01:09:05,439 --> 01:09:09,240 Speaker 3: than they add animals themselves, and so with them not 1301 01:09:09,439 --> 01:09:12,160 Speaker 3: thinking you belong there, Like have you heard or do 1302 01:09:12,240 --> 01:09:14,479 Speaker 3: you know of groups where they go like they got 1303 01:09:14,560 --> 01:09:18,080 Speaker 3: the Black women travel? Will we black people camping? You 1304 01:09:18,240 --> 01:09:21,800 Speaker 3: know when you do? Wait? Thank thank you. 1305 01:09:22,080 --> 01:09:26,240 Speaker 4: Obia now able to highlight some of my favorite organizations. Okay, 1306 01:09:26,320 --> 01:09:30,639 Speaker 4: so the number one favorite is called Outdoor AFRO. Okay, 1307 01:09:30,960 --> 01:09:34,000 Speaker 4: look up Outdoor after Afro. It's like a kind of 1308 01:09:34,040 --> 01:09:37,160 Speaker 4: like a like a club. So there's different chapters and 1309 01:09:37,360 --> 01:09:40,360 Speaker 4: all kinds of all over the country. There's an Outdoor 1310 01:09:40,400 --> 01:09:43,560 Speaker 4: Afro chapter near you. I guarantee it, and folks just 1311 01:09:43,720 --> 01:09:47,280 Speaker 4: meet up and you have like a guided safe black 1312 01:09:47,560 --> 01:09:48,840 Speaker 4: only experiences. 1313 01:09:49,760 --> 01:09:50,280 Speaker 3: Something like. 1314 01:09:50,880 --> 01:09:55,160 Speaker 4: Yeah, Outdoor Afro is fantastic. I know the CEO, the 1315 01:09:55,240 --> 01:09:57,759 Speaker 4: founder of Outer Afro, a black woman named room Maps. 1316 01:09:57,800 --> 01:09:59,439 Speaker 4: She's also from the Bay Area. She grew up in 1317 01:09:59,520 --> 01:10:02,880 Speaker 4: Oakland and she just like lives and breathes this mission. 1318 01:10:02,960 --> 01:10:05,840 Speaker 4: It is fantastic. They Yeah, someone put in the chat 1319 01:10:05,920 --> 01:10:09,240 Speaker 4: like they just started a clothing line collaboration with ARII. 1320 01:10:09,880 --> 01:10:13,000 Speaker 4: So if you ever were like, oh, ARII like outdoor clothing, 1321 01:10:13,120 --> 01:10:15,720 Speaker 4: I don't belong there, you walk in there today and 1322 01:10:15,840 --> 01:10:18,360 Speaker 4: there is a whole line of Outdoor Afro gear so 1323 01:10:18,439 --> 01:10:21,960 Speaker 4: that your fleece can look fly when you're out hiking 1324 01:10:22,080 --> 01:10:24,760 Speaker 4: instead of looking you know, terrible. It's just they're the 1325 01:10:24,800 --> 01:10:28,920 Speaker 4: best organization. But also there are many more there is 1326 01:10:31,280 --> 01:10:34,879 Speaker 4: there's a group called Latino Outdoors, which is very similar 1327 01:10:34,920 --> 01:10:38,760 Speaker 4: to Outdoor Afro, which is also across America. I highly 1328 01:10:38,840 --> 01:10:44,639 Speaker 4: recommend Latino Outdoors. And then there is a summer camp. 1329 01:10:44,840 --> 01:10:46,960 Speaker 4: I'm really proud of this. There's a summer camp for 1330 01:10:47,120 --> 01:10:52,040 Speaker 4: Little Black Girls. It is called Camp Founder Girls. Camp 1331 01:10:52,240 --> 01:10:55,080 Speaker 4: Founder Girls. It is a historic summer camp. It got 1332 01:10:55,120 --> 01:10:57,840 Speaker 4: started in like the nineteen twenties or something in like 1333 01:10:57,960 --> 01:11:01,760 Speaker 4: around San Antonio, Texas, and it died for a while, 1334 01:11:01,840 --> 01:11:04,040 Speaker 4: but they brought it back in the last couple of years. 1335 01:11:04,560 --> 01:11:07,640 Speaker 4: And it is a summer camp, outdoor summer camp for 1336 01:11:07,880 --> 01:11:11,719 Speaker 4: little black girls only, and it is a space for girls. 1337 01:11:11,760 --> 01:11:13,400 Speaker 4: And you don't have to be from Texas to go, 1338 01:11:13,560 --> 01:11:16,759 Speaker 4: like anyone can send their kids. It's overnight like sleep 1339 01:11:16,840 --> 01:11:20,800 Speaker 4: away in the wilderness camp run by black folks for 1340 01:11:21,080 --> 01:11:24,479 Speaker 4: black girls, and it is like empowering them, equipping them 1341 01:11:24,680 --> 01:11:28,200 Speaker 4: within the safety of a black girls space. So I 1342 01:11:28,320 --> 01:11:30,760 Speaker 4: have a seven year old daughter. As soon as she's 1343 01:11:30,800 --> 01:11:33,600 Speaker 4: old enough, I am sending her straight to that summer car. 1344 01:11:33,920 --> 01:11:36,040 Speaker 3: Okay, I'm glad to ask that question, cause I was like, well, 1345 01:11:36,040 --> 01:11:40,360 Speaker 3: would you being outside and knowing that for a lot 1346 01:11:40,439 --> 01:11:43,720 Speaker 3: of black people, that's a fear theirs They go, well, 1347 01:11:43,920 --> 01:11:46,080 Speaker 3: how do I know them be safe? I want people 1348 01:11:46,160 --> 01:11:48,320 Speaker 3: to look like me or I want to be somewhere 1349 01:11:48,360 --> 01:11:51,160 Speaker 3: where I don't feel judge if I pull up my fro, 1350 01:11:51,400 --> 01:11:53,720 Speaker 3: if I put out my hair products, you know, and 1351 01:11:53,880 --> 01:11:56,880 Speaker 3: things like that. Or you know, just things that we 1352 01:11:57,160 --> 01:12:00,320 Speaker 3: do that might not white people might not be meal 1353 01:12:00,360 --> 01:12:02,800 Speaker 3: you with, or it might not be acceptable, I know. 1354 01:12:03,000 --> 01:12:04,320 Speaker 3: So I was like, well, she might know that. 1355 01:12:04,720 --> 01:12:08,519 Speaker 2: I think also the phrase socially safe is just that's 1356 01:12:08,560 --> 01:12:10,799 Speaker 2: a big part of it, you know, because I think. 1357 01:12:12,439 --> 01:12:14,080 Speaker 1: Anytime you're in a space. 1358 01:12:13,880 --> 01:12:19,240 Speaker 2: Where there's like where you're the in the minority or whatever, 1359 01:12:19,439 --> 01:12:21,600 Speaker 2: there's always like a little bit of fear of like. 1360 01:12:23,280 --> 01:12:27,000 Speaker 1: Just like your ideas being punished or your you know, 1361 01:12:27,360 --> 01:12:30,600 Speaker 1: or the I like something that we consider natural, like. 1362 01:12:32,720 --> 01:12:35,439 Speaker 2: Like like saying, man a mod Aubrey, what a tragedy, 1363 01:12:35,600 --> 01:12:40,320 Speaker 2: and then there's a there's a feeling of like conflict 1364 01:12:40,439 --> 01:12:41,960 Speaker 2: and danger and all this stuff, and it's like I 1365 01:12:42,000 --> 01:12:44,720 Speaker 2: didn't come to the woods for that. Like like like 1366 01:12:44,840 --> 01:12:46,479 Speaker 2: if I like, if I'm leaving my house to be 1367 01:12:46,520 --> 01:12:47,760 Speaker 2: in a tent, I would like to be in a 1368 01:12:47,840 --> 01:12:50,640 Speaker 2: place where if I express like you know, sadness over that, 1369 01:12:51,040 --> 01:12:52,400 Speaker 2: I'm not in a debate about that. 1370 01:12:52,640 --> 01:12:55,880 Speaker 1: And I think, yeah, that's that's that's definitely a big 1371 01:12:55,960 --> 01:12:56,400 Speaker 1: part of it. 1372 01:12:56,479 --> 01:12:58,320 Speaker 2: And so yeah, if you can find like an affinity 1373 01:12:58,400 --> 01:13:01,160 Speaker 2: group where you can go out and do something together, 1374 01:13:01,800 --> 01:13:03,640 Speaker 2: you know, there's that absolutely and. 1375 01:13:03,760 --> 01:13:04,120 Speaker 3: We all have. 1376 01:13:04,280 --> 01:13:06,200 Speaker 4: I mean again, just a place where you're not gonna 1377 01:13:06,800 --> 01:13:09,680 Speaker 4: have microaggressions. It doesn't have to be the wilderness, but 1378 01:13:09,800 --> 01:13:13,840 Speaker 4: it's like having our kids have any space in the woods, 1379 01:13:13,880 --> 01:13:15,760 Speaker 4: out of the woods, whatever, where it's like at least 1380 01:13:15,800 --> 01:13:19,000 Speaker 4: their microaggression free. I remember a couple of times growing 1381 01:13:19,080 --> 01:13:21,280 Speaker 4: up I went to a sleepwoy camp and it was 1382 01:13:21,360 --> 01:13:24,080 Speaker 4: like mostly white, if not all white, but probably mostly white. 1383 01:13:24,520 --> 01:13:28,280 Speaker 4: And I remember one time, like I was probably a teenager, 1384 01:13:28,400 --> 01:13:31,280 Speaker 4: like thirteen, and there's a little girl I was friends with, 1385 01:13:31,439 --> 01:13:33,240 Speaker 4: and she asked me, like what kind of music do 1386 01:13:33,280 --> 01:13:35,519 Speaker 4: you like to listen to? You know? And I told 1387 01:13:35,560 --> 01:13:37,000 Speaker 4: her like, oh, I like to listen to the like 1388 01:13:37,280 --> 01:13:39,639 Speaker 4: hip hop or you know, a city of Warren Hill 1389 01:13:39,720 --> 01:13:44,400 Speaker 4: or something back there, you know. And I remember she said, 1390 01:13:44,720 --> 01:13:48,120 Speaker 4: you know, she said, my dad says that's nigger music. Wow. 1391 01:13:49,920 --> 01:13:54,040 Speaker 4: And it was like that was the only like uncomfortable 1392 01:13:54,160 --> 01:13:57,120 Speaker 4: moment I had in that whole summer camp experience. But 1393 01:13:57,240 --> 01:14:00,960 Speaker 4: it was devastating. Yeah, it was horrible. I'm thirty seven 1394 01:14:01,040 --> 01:14:03,880 Speaker 4: years old. I still remember, you know, like it's so 1395 01:14:04,240 --> 01:14:07,840 Speaker 4: offensive and you know, and of course this girl grew 1396 01:14:07,960 --> 01:14:11,400 Speaker 4: up like with that belief system. But just like things 1397 01:14:11,520 --> 01:14:16,559 Speaker 4: like that don't need to like taint a little girl's 1398 01:14:16,560 --> 01:14:21,240 Speaker 4: summer summer camp experience. We can avoid that. And so anyway, 1399 01:14:21,320 --> 01:14:23,800 Speaker 4: so I'm just really excited that there are these affinity 1400 01:14:23,920 --> 01:14:26,640 Speaker 4: groups that are like we belong outside, we just need 1401 01:14:26,720 --> 01:14:28,560 Speaker 4: to be outside. You know, a lot of them just 1402 01:14:28,680 --> 01:14:34,120 Speaker 4: really hold this belief system that like our ancestors were 1403 01:14:34,240 --> 01:14:38,160 Speaker 4: the experts of nature, right, like the first black people 1404 01:14:38,880 --> 01:14:42,240 Speaker 4: who came to America transformed America when it was a 1405 01:14:42,400 --> 01:14:45,519 Speaker 4: very wild place, Like they were in nature, like we 1406 01:14:45,600 --> 01:14:50,080 Speaker 4: were slaves, but we were outside. We were like in nature. 1407 01:14:50,200 --> 01:14:54,160 Speaker 4: We were like chopping down trees, building stuff, surviving whale fires, 1408 01:14:54,240 --> 01:14:57,000 Speaker 4: we did a thing like swimming, Like we were doing 1409 01:14:57,000 --> 01:14:59,120 Speaker 4: all these things not because we wanted to, but because 1410 01:14:59,160 --> 01:15:03,680 Speaker 4: we had to. So like being outdoors and understanding like 1411 01:15:04,320 --> 01:15:08,280 Speaker 4: nature in America is something that our ancestors mastered, and 1412 01:15:08,479 --> 01:15:11,479 Speaker 4: so it's not a new thing. It's just that a 1413 01:15:11,600 --> 01:15:15,240 Speaker 4: lot has changed since then. I'm still talk don't belong there. 1414 01:15:15,360 --> 01:15:17,640 Speaker 2: I'm still waiting for my old black man Jean to 1415 01:15:17,720 --> 01:15:19,840 Speaker 2: kick in so I can start my garden because it's. 1416 01:15:19,800 --> 01:15:20,320 Speaker 3: Just me too. 1417 01:15:20,400 --> 01:15:22,439 Speaker 2: I feel like all old black people just get to 1418 01:15:22,520 --> 01:15:24,120 Speaker 2: a certain age. I don't know what the age is, 1419 01:15:24,200 --> 01:15:25,160 Speaker 2: but it's just one day. 1420 01:15:25,080 --> 01:15:25,559 Speaker 1: You wake up. 1421 01:15:25,720 --> 01:15:28,559 Speaker 2: His parents are putting steaks in the in the ground 1422 01:15:28,640 --> 01:15:30,840 Speaker 2: and you and you make it tomatoes. 1423 01:15:30,360 --> 01:15:32,880 Speaker 3: And next thing you know, you're giving away your turn 1424 01:15:32,960 --> 01:15:36,400 Speaker 3: of greens, your mustard greens, your watermelon, your squash. 1425 01:15:36,120 --> 01:15:36,960 Speaker 1: Your open can. 1426 01:15:37,000 --> 01:15:39,920 Speaker 2: They start knowing secrets and stuff and like, oh no, 1427 01:15:40,320 --> 01:15:43,120 Speaker 2: that's a that's a this type of caterpillar and it 1428 01:15:43,280 --> 01:15:45,720 Speaker 2: likes to eat squash, and you like, how did you 1429 01:15:45,840 --> 01:15:46,040 Speaker 2: know that? 1430 01:15:46,400 --> 01:15:49,360 Speaker 1: It's just in our DNA? So it makes sense. Let 1431 01:15:49,439 --> 01:15:51,719 Speaker 1: me ask you this. What's your favorite animal? 1432 01:15:53,720 --> 01:15:53,880 Speaker 3: Oh? 1433 01:15:54,240 --> 01:15:55,800 Speaker 4: I kind of brought this up at the beginning, in 1434 01:15:55,880 --> 01:15:58,080 Speaker 4: like the first two minutes of talking to y'all, I 1435 01:15:58,160 --> 01:16:02,439 Speaker 4: said it, but the baldy e Wow. Okay, you know 1436 01:16:02,520 --> 01:16:04,439 Speaker 4: it's kind of weird because it's like that makes me 1437 01:16:04,560 --> 01:16:11,720 Speaker 4: sound very patriotic. Station I'm not particularly patriotic, but I 1438 01:16:12,200 --> 01:16:15,280 Speaker 4: love bald eagles. And I have to say, although it's 1439 01:16:15,280 --> 01:16:18,240 Speaker 4: our national animal and everything, I didn't see my first 1440 01:16:18,280 --> 01:16:19,920 Speaker 4: bald eagle until twenty seventeen. 1441 01:16:20,040 --> 01:16:20,280 Speaker 1: Wow. 1442 01:16:20,400 --> 01:16:23,040 Speaker 4: Even though I'm in nature all the time, I'm always 1443 01:16:23,080 --> 01:16:24,600 Speaker 4: in the outers, I did not see my first bar 1444 01:16:24,720 --> 01:16:27,200 Speaker 4: League until twenty seventeen, and I was driving from New 1445 01:16:27,280 --> 01:16:31,599 Speaker 4: York City to the Adirondack, the Adirondacks in upstate New York, 1446 01:16:31,880 --> 01:16:34,200 Speaker 4: and I was just on the highway, like driving, and 1447 01:16:34,280 --> 01:16:35,920 Speaker 4: I kind of looked up and there was a bald 1448 01:16:36,000 --> 01:16:39,120 Speaker 4: eagle soaring overhead. I almost drove off the freeway. I 1449 01:16:39,280 --> 01:16:44,080 Speaker 4: was crying, but I was so moved because it's just 1450 01:16:44,360 --> 01:16:47,040 Speaker 4: gorgeous the way it just soars, and it's so big 1451 01:16:47,360 --> 01:16:50,559 Speaker 4: and powerful, and the way they like they like rock 1452 01:16:50,720 --> 01:16:53,760 Speaker 4: it down and grab fish and come back up. So 1453 01:16:53,960 --> 01:16:56,840 Speaker 4: Ever since that moment in twenty seventeen, I've seen lots 1454 01:16:56,880 --> 01:17:00,240 Speaker 4: of bald eagles. Maybe I just wasn't looking up ever know, 1455 01:17:00,360 --> 01:17:03,120 Speaker 4: but like now I see them all over. The last 1456 01:17:03,160 --> 01:17:04,920 Speaker 4: time I saw one was a few months ago. I 1457 01:17:05,080 --> 01:17:09,680 Speaker 4: was heading to the airport outside of Orlando, Florida. So 1458 01:17:09,720 --> 01:17:12,000 Speaker 4: I just going to the Orlando airport, but I was 1459 01:17:12,040 --> 01:17:13,559 Speaker 4: on the freeway to go and then there's all these 1460 01:17:13,600 --> 01:17:14,200 Speaker 4: bald eagles. 1461 01:17:14,240 --> 01:17:15,599 Speaker 1: I was like, in true. 1462 01:17:15,439 --> 01:17:19,360 Speaker 2: American fashion, I feel like the bald eagle is very 1463 01:17:19,479 --> 01:17:22,840 Speaker 2: much got the treatment that white people gave the Native Americans, 1464 01:17:23,439 --> 01:17:25,720 Speaker 2: whereas like we kill them out and we put them 1465 01:17:25,800 --> 01:17:28,479 Speaker 2: on flags and make them team maskots and all this stuff, 1466 01:17:28,479 --> 01:17:32,519 Speaker 2: and you're like, but if you really have respect, if 1467 01:17:32,560 --> 01:17:35,559 Speaker 2: you really like the ultimate sign of respect isn't throwing 1468 01:17:35,680 --> 01:17:38,200 Speaker 2: something up on a flag. It's not killing it running 1469 01:17:38,320 --> 01:17:40,839 Speaker 2: like hunting it to extinction or getting rid of its habitat. 1470 01:17:41,360 --> 01:17:44,160 Speaker 2: Why why did the ball eagle, like, why did it 1471 01:17:44,479 --> 01:17:46,960 Speaker 2: like get on the endangered species is were people like 1472 01:17:47,080 --> 01:17:49,799 Speaker 2: killing them or just trees? 1473 01:17:50,960 --> 01:17:53,639 Speaker 4: It was those Remember in the like eighties and nineties, 1474 01:17:53,680 --> 01:17:56,160 Speaker 4: we had all those chemicals in the environment, Like we 1475 01:17:56,280 --> 01:17:59,800 Speaker 4: were spraying pesticides so much on a real cross, but 1476 01:17:59,880 --> 01:18:05,040 Speaker 4: the pesticides were impacting these eagles and it was making 1477 01:18:05,120 --> 01:18:07,640 Speaker 4: their eggs really thin. The egg shells were becoming so 1478 01:18:07,920 --> 01:18:12,320 Speaker 4: thin that that well, baby embryos inside the eggs weren't 1479 01:18:12,320 --> 01:18:14,719 Speaker 4: able to develop right because it was like the eggs 1480 01:18:14,760 --> 01:18:18,800 Speaker 4: were cracking. Wow, remember, And so we started like like 1481 01:18:18,960 --> 01:18:21,720 Speaker 4: the government was like, Okay, we're about to lose bald 1482 01:18:21,760 --> 01:18:25,639 Speaker 4: eagles and that would be embarrassing, so let's stop using 1483 01:18:25,680 --> 01:18:31,560 Speaker 4: these chemicals pesticides and that will hopefully it'll fix it. 1484 01:18:31,600 --> 01:18:33,240 Speaker 4: And it took you know, ten years or so, but 1485 01:18:33,360 --> 01:18:36,320 Speaker 4: after we stopped using these horrible pesticides, the egg shells 1486 01:18:36,360 --> 01:18:39,599 Speaker 4: are back to being nice and hard, and now bald 1487 01:18:39,640 --> 01:18:41,040 Speaker 4: eagles are having babies again. 1488 01:18:41,200 --> 01:18:45,479 Speaker 2: Meanwhile, the dodos just over there like we're' that's how y'all? 1489 01:18:45,560 --> 01:18:47,200 Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean? How come we came 1490 01:18:47,320 --> 01:18:49,160 Speaker 1: Jurassic Parks from Dodos? You know what I mean? 1491 01:18:49,320 --> 01:18:53,040 Speaker 4: Like we can we got the technology, we can wed 1492 01:18:53,200 --> 01:18:57,280 Speaker 4: Jurassic Park anything, which is like pretty scary, but it's possible. 1493 01:18:57,360 --> 01:18:59,400 Speaker 2: Let's bring them back, like I don't know. And if 1494 01:18:59,479 --> 01:19:02,960 Speaker 2: it does, like call some type of scientific mishapp that's 1495 01:19:03,040 --> 01:19:05,000 Speaker 2: really on us. We deserve that we shouldn't have killed 1496 01:19:05,040 --> 01:19:10,560 Speaker 2: them off again again that we that yeah, you know, 1497 01:19:10,760 --> 01:19:12,320 Speaker 2: we don't mean we y. 1498 01:19:13,880 --> 01:19:15,880 Speaker 4: We didn't call because we have like. 1499 01:19:15,920 --> 01:19:22,759 Speaker 1: A hidden h I t in it. I'm not pronouncing 1500 01:19:22,760 --> 01:19:24,040 Speaker 1: the h I in the middle of this. 1501 01:19:24,479 --> 01:19:28,240 Speaker 2: We all right, let me can you tell everybody where 1502 01:19:28,320 --> 01:19:30,640 Speaker 2: to find a podcast and we'll wrap up. 1503 01:19:32,360 --> 01:19:34,160 Speaker 4: Yes, thank you, so I would love it if all 1504 01:19:34,240 --> 01:19:37,360 Speaker 4: y'all check out my podcast Going Wild, Going Wild with 1505 01:19:37,560 --> 01:19:40,680 Speaker 4: Raymond Grant. Wherever you get your podcast, it's everywhere. It 1506 01:19:40,840 --> 01:19:44,360 Speaker 4: is produced by PBOs Nature. You can find it wherever 1507 01:19:44,360 --> 01:19:47,040 Speaker 4: you get your podcasts, and please, you know, download and 1508 01:19:47,080 --> 01:19:51,559 Speaker 4: subscribe and and look out. Season two is really tremendous, honestly, 1509 01:19:51,800 --> 01:19:57,640 Speaker 4: Like we've got black men women pioneering these sciences and 1510 01:19:57,800 --> 01:20:02,840 Speaker 4: telling some amazing again like mental emotional stories along with 1511 01:20:02,960 --> 01:20:05,680 Speaker 4: the wildlife adventures. It's dope. It's so good. 1512 01:20:05,840 --> 01:20:07,200 Speaker 1: There you go, y'all check it out. 1513 01:20:07,360 --> 01:20:11,519 Speaker 2: There's all kinds of good information out there and supporting 1514 01:20:11,600 --> 01:20:16,120 Speaker 2: black people and doctor Ray you always welcome back. 1515 01:20:16,560 --> 01:20:18,679 Speaker 1: We have such a great time talking. 1516 01:20:20,280 --> 01:20:20,960 Speaker 4: I'm gonna come back. 1517 01:20:21,640 --> 01:20:23,759 Speaker 1: Yeah, we gotta, we gotta get some of them stories 1518 01:20:23,800 --> 01:20:24,080 Speaker 1: out of you. 1519 01:20:24,200 --> 01:20:26,720 Speaker 2: I know, yes, about it's kind of more of an 1520 01:20:26,760 --> 01:20:29,760 Speaker 2: introductory thing and like you know, like an interview style, 1521 01:20:29,800 --> 01:20:32,240 Speaker 2: but we gotta next time, we gotta find out about 1522 01:20:32,280 --> 01:20:33,840 Speaker 2: these close calls with mother Nature. 1523 01:20:33,960 --> 01:20:37,640 Speaker 3: Yes, and I hope you encourage people to look for 1524 01:20:37,760 --> 01:20:40,200 Speaker 3: these groups and sign up and go out and do 1525 01:20:40,439 --> 01:20:44,000 Speaker 3: some naturist things kind of break outside of the box, 1526 01:20:45,040 --> 01:20:46,080 Speaker 3: you know type of thing. 1527 01:20:46,760 --> 01:20:49,479 Speaker 4: All right, So try it once again, like no one 1528 01:20:49,560 --> 01:20:52,880 Speaker 4: has to become you know, the new me living outside. 1529 01:20:54,400 --> 01:20:57,040 Speaker 4: Try it once, try it twice, just a little bit. 1530 01:20:57,560 --> 01:20:59,719 Speaker 2: I'm gonna go for a walk today. Let's just start 1531 01:21:00,160 --> 01:21:04,360 Speaker 2: start small, you know. We go out here and go 1532 01:21:04,479 --> 01:21:06,880 Speaker 2: on the back patio and just see what's going on. 1533 01:21:08,080 --> 01:21:12,400 Speaker 2: All right, y'all, Yeah, so much, no problem, Thank you 1534 01:21:12,479 --> 01:21:15,519 Speaker 2: for coming. We'll be back Saturday for our feedback show 1535 01:21:16,720 --> 01:21:20,960 Speaker 2: and that's it. Yeah, So until next time, I love you, bye,