Speaker 1: I am a Yamla. I had a baby daddy relationship.
Speaker 1: I spent time in a relationship with a married man.
Speaker 1: I had to learn the skills and tools required to
Speaker 1: make my relationships healthy, fulfilling and loving. Welcome to the
Speaker 1: R Spot, a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1: Greetings and welcome to the our Spot, the place we
Speaker 1: come to talk about, to examine, to explore, hopefully, to
Speaker 1: heal and uplift relationships, all kinds of relationships. I am
Speaker 1: young La van Zant. Today we're talking about what I
Speaker 1: think is one of the most sacred, it yet complicated
Speaker 1: relationships that we encounter as human beings. And that's the
Speaker 1: relationship between mother and daughter. I had two daughters. I've
Speaker 1: lost both of them. When I think about my relationships
Speaker 1: with them, my relationship with my oldest daughter, Jamia was
Speaker 1: probably one of the most fulfilling, loving, sacred relationships in
Speaker 1: my life, or at least that's what I thought until
Speaker 1: she passed on and I read her journals, and what
Speaker 1: I realized was that she was having a relationship with
Speaker 1: me that I was totally unaware of, and I was
Speaker 1: having a relationship with her that she didn't experience. Then
Speaker 1: with my youngest daughter, who just recently passed away, I'm
Speaker 1: real clear that we had a contentious relationship and it
Speaker 1: took me years and years to figure out what was
Speaker 1: the problem. She was the baby, she was spoiled, rotten,
Speaker 1: she will spoil rotten, and she demanded, required and really
Speaker 1: got more attention from me than any of my other children.
Speaker 1: But the contention in our relationship I discovered was that
Speaker 1: she represented the part and parts of me that I
Speaker 1: couldn't see, didn't want to see, never accepted about myself,
Speaker 1: and projected on to her the thing she needed to
Speaker 1: do to correct herself when I hadn't corrected those things
Speaker 1: in me. And once ide got that and I began
Speaker 1: to shift, unfortunately it was too late. There was so
Speaker 1: much damage done in our relationship. Her experience of me
Speaker 1: had been going on for so long until she was
Speaker 1: unable or unwilling to shift. Because you know, we get
Speaker 1: into a habit of seeing people a certain way, and
Speaker 1: even when they change, we still see them as the
Speaker 1: way they were instead of the way they are. So
Speaker 1: we got along, We didn't fight, We got along, but
Speaker 1: it was really really difficult. It was really challenging, and
Speaker 1: I know I'm not alone. I know there are hundreds
Speaker 1: of thousands of mothers and daughters who are just at odds,
Speaker 1: who just have contention.
Speaker 2: And what I.
Speaker 1: Always say to moms is, no matter what happens or
Speaker 1: how it happens, it's going to end up in your lap.
Speaker 1: And they don't understand that children all children. But as women,
Speaker 1: it's really really important that we understand that our daughters
Speaker 1: bring to life our subconscious issues. Our daughters bring to
Speaker 1: life our subconscious issues, and they show us who we
Speaker 1: are and who we're not, and then they experience it
Speaker 1: the way they experience it. And as moms we have
Speaker 1: to take the high road, and very often we are
Speaker 1: so hurt, so busy trying to control or fix or
Speaker 1: change our daughters till we don't do the inner work
Speaker 1: required to heal the relationship. That wasn't my case. I
Speaker 1: did the inner work, and my daughter just had a
Speaker 1: habit of seeing and experiencing me a certain way. She
Speaker 1: was my baby girl, and I loved her. I loved
Speaker 1: her with all my heart. I still love her, and
Speaker 1: now that she's not in the body, I want to
Speaker 1: say we have a much better relationship. But you don't
Speaker 1: have to wait till then, moms and daughters, because I
Speaker 1: think what daughters forget is that before your mom was
Speaker 1: your mother, she was a woman. She was a little girl,
Speaker 1: and she has a story, and she has issues, and
Speaker 1: she has challenges. And so instead of seeing her as
Speaker 1: just your mother with your requirements and demands and judgments,
Speaker 1: remember she's a woman who was a little girl, who
Speaker 1: has a history and a story that determines how she's
Speaker 1: going to show up in your life. So today we
Speaker 1: have a divine opportunity to take a look at the
Speaker 1: sacredness and the challenges that go on in a relationship
Speaker 1: between mother and daughter. So I'm going to take a
Speaker 1: deep breath because what I know as a coach and
Speaker 1: as a minister is my guests today are bringing my
Speaker 1: issues right up in my face. So hopefully, hopefully I
Speaker 1: can give them what I have. I can give them
Speaker 1: what I needed, I can give them what I learned
Speaker 1: from a place of love and compassion. So let's get started. Greetings, beloved,
Speaker 1: and welcome to the R Spot. Today we are talking
Speaker 1: about a sacred and complicated relationship, the one that exists
Speaker 1: between mothers and daughters. So what do you bring into
Speaker 1: the table today.
Speaker 3: I've never been close to my mother. I've never had
Speaker 3: a relationship with my mother and my father perfect. My
Speaker 3: mother never had anything. He's gone years about talking with
Speaker 3: our longest find being four years. I'm thirty three. So basically,
Speaker 3: I've been listening to your podcast and I've learned that
Speaker 3: I don't know how to be in relationship with my mother.
Speaker 3: I've tried, I've tried counseling, but what I've realized is
Speaker 3: I do not like her as a person. I've also
Speaker 3: learned that that means that I don't like parts of myself.
Speaker 3: But I'm trying to figure out how do I move
Speaker 3: forward in a relationship with somebody who I feel like
Speaker 3: is always negative and they talked about everybody like there's
Speaker 3: really nothing positive that I can say about my mom,
Speaker 3: and I don't like that. But I'm just trying to
Speaker 3: figure out, like, how do I move forward in a
Speaker 3: relationship with her. Not to mention she just got diagnosed
Speaker 3: with cancer last year, and then just this July, when
Speaker 3: I stopped talking to her again, she got into another accident.
Speaker 3: Now she can't walk, and the family was trying to
Speaker 3: pressure on me to go take care of her. And
Speaker 3: it just was a lot. So I'm just trying to
Speaker 3: figure out how to move forward.
Speaker 1: Wow. I find it interesting that you say you've always
Speaker 1: had a strange relationship with her. Take me back as
Speaker 1: far as you can to when you realize that your
Speaker 1: relationship with her was strained.
Speaker 3: The furthest back that I can't remember is about seven
Speaker 3: years old when we moved into our house. The way
Speaker 3: that it was was my mom would come home and
Speaker 3: go straight to her room and smoke and drink. My
Speaker 3: stepdad would take care of us, He would do things
Speaker 3: with us. But I literally never had a relationship with her.
Speaker 3: And if she was talking to us, she was yelling
Speaker 3: at us. I have two brothers, That's why I say us.
Speaker 3: She was just yelling at us or telling us we
Speaker 3: didn't do our chores right, or if she came home
Speaker 3: and we did our tours perfectly, but there's a pin
Speaker 3: on the floor, we would all get beat, lined up
Speaker 3: and beat. So it was just like I just I
Speaker 3: never could be close to her. And now she's trying
Speaker 3: to be in my life. But it's like it's been
Speaker 3: years and years of torture and now she's trying to
Speaker 3: act like nothing happened. And I should just be her friend.
Speaker 3: I'm just like I can't like you know, I can't
Speaker 3: open up to you. I don't trust you.
Speaker 1: You said years of torture. What does that mean?
Speaker 3: It's funny because I actually found a note yesterday. So
Speaker 3: in this note, I broke down that she took my
Speaker 3: birthdays away from me for dumb reasons, like to pend
Speaker 3: on the floor. She would just say, you can't have
Speaker 3: a birthday this year. She would come home and yell
Speaker 3: at us. She would constantly put me on punishment. I
Speaker 3: never got praised for anything. I only got things pointed
Speaker 3: out if they were wrong. I was an ab suit
Speaker 3: and nothing was ever. I never had any problems. She
Speaker 3: would hold money over my head to try to control me,
Speaker 3: and that's why that's when I first I found my
Speaker 3: first form of independence when I was nineteen, because I
Speaker 3: finally started making my own money. She couldn't control me anymore,
Speaker 3: and I was the first one of all three kids
Speaker 3: who broke free of her control. Basically, she would hit
Speaker 3: me all the time. I personally felt like she hated me.
Speaker 3: She told me she did it when we went to counseling,
Speaker 3: but I felt like she hated me because she hates
Speaker 3: my dad, and I looked like my dad, and I
Speaker 3: act like my dad.
Speaker 1: There it is right there, right there. Wait a minute,
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, Wait a minute. Take a breath, Take
Speaker 1: a breath. Wow, m tell me what's going on right there,
Speaker 1: right there? What's happening for you? Right now?
Speaker 3: I'm about to cry, but.
Speaker 1: Don't run away from it. Sit in it for a minute,
Speaker 1: and let's get that together. Because I was going to
Speaker 1: ask you. I heard you say your stepdad took care
Speaker 1: of you. Your dad didn't, So your mom hated your dad. Yeah,
Speaker 1: as a young as a young girl, you don't remember
Speaker 1: having closeness nurturing from her. She would go in her
Speaker 1: room and smoke and drink. No closeness, no communication, no rewards,
Speaker 1: no affirmation from her.
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that continued until you became a teenager. And
Speaker 1: what did you tell yourself about out why she treated
Speaker 1: you like that?
Speaker 3: I just told myself my mom treated me poorly because
Speaker 3: she's crazy. Because it logically didn't make sense. I had
Speaker 3: a's and b's, I did all my chords. When I
Speaker 3: would go to my dad or my grandmaself, I never
Speaker 3: got whooping. It was only with her, so it didn't
Speaker 3: make sense to me.
Speaker 1: Okay, she was crazy. When did you make that decision?
Speaker 1: How old were you?
Speaker 3: That's probably when I was like eight or nine. It
Speaker 3: was very early. It was when we first moved to
Speaker 3: the house.
Speaker 1: Although you say she hated your dad or maybe things
Speaker 1: happened in her relationship as a woman, things happened in
Speaker 1: her relationship with him that had nothing to do with you,
Speaker 1: but that she never healed. Is that a possibility.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I believe that.
Speaker 1: I heard you say that. Y'all have gone years without talking.
Speaker 1: What made that happen? What brought that about?
Speaker 3: Well, the first time was when I was nineteen. She
Speaker 3: just she found out that I was a lesbian. I
Speaker 3: came to Atlanta, and I already was interested in women
Speaker 3: in Ohio, but during that time, at that time, it
Speaker 3: wasn't as accepted as it is now, So I didn't
Speaker 3: want to come out until I went to college, if
Speaker 3: that makes sense. So she found out somehow, and then
Speaker 3: she called me all kind of slud bidget whores sold,
Speaker 3: gave me Bible verses. So then we then I I'm
Speaker 3: not gonna lie. I said a Bible verse back to
Speaker 3: her and told her that she could miss adult tree.
Speaker 3: You know, because she was and I felt like he
Speaker 3: was attacking me. I packed her back and told her,
Speaker 3: were you commit adultery? And you know there's no fin
Speaker 3: above the other, like that's in the Bible too, So
Speaker 3: I did that and then I didn't talk to her
Speaker 3: after that, and then the biggest blowout was when I
Speaker 3: was twenty three, So from twenty three to twenty seven,
Speaker 3: she didn't We didn't talk because I actually had a
Speaker 3: girlfriend at that time, and I brought her to Ohio
Speaker 3: told me to bring her to Ohio when I when
Speaker 3: I came there, she just flipped out and I was like,
Speaker 3: I don't even think she wanted us to come, and
Speaker 3: she cussed me out again. And then I told her
Speaker 3: that I was leaving, and she was like, I don't care,
Speaker 3: and I'm taking off my life insurance. I mean, if
Speaker 3: I care about the left matures. But the point is
Speaker 3: she didn't care about was leaving, and that hurt my
Speaker 3: feelings because I'm like, damn, you don't even care that
Speaker 3: I'm leaving, even though I don't really like you either,
Speaker 3: but like I would a least think you would care
Speaker 3: that your daughter's leaving, you know. So we didn't talk
Speaker 3: for four years and I told her that I would
Speaker 3: never have a relationship with her ever again unless she
Speaker 3: agrees to counseling with a counseling for a year. That helped.
Speaker 1: But it wait a minute, Your mother, your crazy mother,
Speaker 1: who hated you, who thought you were a slut of bee,
Speaker 1: a hole whatever, went to counseling with you. M interesting, Yeah,
Speaker 1: Well did you ever try to reach out to her
Speaker 1: in those four years?
Speaker 3: Never? Because she's just It's just I'm always the one
Speaker 3: being hurt, so I couldn't.
Speaker 1: Did she ever try to reach out to you in
Speaker 1: those four years?
Speaker 3: See, the only reason why she called me was because
Speaker 3: my little cousin, which is her best friend's mom, she
Speaker 3: was going through the same thing with her daughter, and
Speaker 3: I guess it made her so she called me.
Speaker 1: Does it matter why she made the first move?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 1: So that was a twenty seven So from twenty seven
Speaker 1: to thirty three, what has that looked like now?
Speaker 3: So from twenty seven to thirty two, I told her
Speaker 3: that I really would like for her to not call
Speaker 3: me and just text me because when she would call,
Speaker 3: I would get anxiety, like really bad anxiety. When she
Speaker 3: would call me, like it would just freak me out,
Speaker 3: like every time she called, I would rather her text me,
Speaker 3: so she didn't listen to me for the first three
Speaker 3: years of that. She just started listening when I was
Speaker 3: like thirty one turning thirty two, and then we were
Speaker 3: able to get closer. So like all of last year,
Speaker 3: we were able to get closer. But then this year
Speaker 3: I got triggered again because I went to Costa Rica
Speaker 3: four months. I didn't talk to anybody. I needed time
Speaker 3: to myself. And while I was there in Costa Rica,
Speaker 3: people were reaching out, including my mom. But I realize
Speaker 3: every time my mom would reach out, I would just
Speaker 3: feel like, Oh, I don't want to tap her. Oh
Speaker 3: I don't want to talk to her. I did some
Speaker 3: work and when I was journeying, I found out that
Speaker 3: I don't don't want to talk to her because every
Speaker 3: time I do, it's something negative. Every single time I
Speaker 3: answer the phone, there's some type of immediate vent, negative vent.
Speaker 3: And that's exactly what happened. When I got back in July.
Speaker 3: I answered the phone for her, and as soon as
Speaker 3: I answered the phone, it was three back to back
Speaker 3: negative situations and I was I just got so overwhelmed
Speaker 3: when I shut down, and I haven't talked her since July.
Speaker 3: I just like I feel overwhelmed.
Speaker 1: We'll talk about that when we come back. Welcome back
Speaker 1: to the R spot. Let's pick up where we left off.
Speaker 1: How do you define negative? You said it was three
Speaker 1: negative situations.
Speaker 3: Complaining talking about people, so sho. So when she calls me,
Speaker 3: she'll say, yeah, your brother, this pasty town. Yeah, your
Speaker 3: brother and his fucking baby mama, telling me all their
Speaker 3: businesses if I need to know their business. And then
Speaker 3: the next thing, again, I will talking to this guy
Speaker 3: and he's he's this, he's but I don't want to
Speaker 3: hear that. Like when I call my dad, it's positive,
Speaker 3: it's uplifting. When she calls me, it's just a dump
Speaker 3: of like this low vibrational conversation and it just it
Speaker 3: drains my energy.
Speaker 1: And what if you're the only person she feels safe
Speaker 1: enough to talk to.
Speaker 3: My brain is telling me, how could that be if
Speaker 3: we don't even really.
Speaker 1: Talk like that, But somebody who stays in their room
Speaker 1: and smokes and drinks. The communication issues that you're identifying
Speaker 1: didn't start with you. Apparently she's had them a long time,
Speaker 1: and if she hasn't done anything to improve them, maybe
Speaker 1: that's the only way she knows how to communicate, and
Speaker 1: maybe she feels safe enough or familiar enough to share
Speaker 1: that with you, because you haven't created a boundary with
Speaker 1: her and said, Mom, I don't want to hear that,
Speaker 1: or Mom, I don't want to talk about that. Mom,
Speaker 1: you can call me and talk about my brother. Please
Speaker 1: don't do that. You haven't created the boundary, okay. And
Speaker 1: that's because it's not the thirty three year old woman
Speaker 1: dealing with her, it's the seven year old child. You
Speaker 1: haven't grown up her in her space yet. Yeah, what
Speaker 1: is your mother's story? How old was she when she
Speaker 1: had you?
Speaker 3: She was twenty four and she had my brother when
Speaker 3: she was twenty with my brother, so she got pregnant
Speaker 3: in college. Just two different stories. Her version is she
Speaker 3: was raped. My dad's version is she wasn't because he
Speaker 3: knew the guys and currently on my dad's version, she was,
Speaker 3: you know, doing what she was doing, cheating on him,
Speaker 3: got pregnant with my brother. She lied and told everybody like,
Speaker 3: oh I got raped. I don't know. I don't know,
Speaker 3: but I know my mom is. She lies a lot.
Speaker 3: But in my mind I kind of believe my dad
Speaker 3: because she's I was lying, but I will say that
Speaker 3: either way, she was young. She was nineteen and she
Speaker 3: found out she was pregnant at like five months, so
Speaker 3: she didn't even have much time to prepare for my brother.
Speaker 3: My dad stepped up, even though he knew that that
Speaker 3: wasn't his child, because he knew who the father was.
Speaker 3: He stepped up. And then four years later I came.
Speaker 3: My dad was in the military, he was gone. I
Speaker 3: was born on a military base while he was at war.
Speaker 3: My mom was all alone on the base in South Carolina.
Speaker 3: So she drove back to Ohio with my grandma about
Speaker 3: a month before I was born. So I was born
Speaker 3: in Ohio. And then after that she met my stepdad
Speaker 3: in Ohio and he's been in my life since a baby.
Speaker 3: So I've never seen my mom and my dad together ever.
Speaker 1: She got pregnant in college. How did her mother respond
Speaker 1: to that.
Speaker 3: I don't know how her mom responded, but I know
Speaker 3: that my my great grandmother, which is her grandmother, which
Speaker 3: is who was taking care of her, because my mom
Speaker 3: also had a straight relationship with her mother. So my
Speaker 3: mom went to Birmingham when she was sixteen, stayed with
Speaker 3: my great grandmother. I know my great grandmother. She wasn't happy,
Speaker 3: but she was supported her and all of my aunts
Speaker 3: that were in Bermia, which we have a really big family.
Speaker 1: So my mother wasn't there for her when she got
Speaker 1: pregnant in college and came home or whatever to have
Speaker 1: a baby. Her mother wasn't there for her at a
Speaker 1: critical time in her life, right, the same way your
Speaker 1: mother wasn't there for you at a critical time in
Speaker 1: your life when you came out. Yeah, if her mother
Speaker 1: wasn't there for her at a critical time in her life,
Speaker 1: where do you think she would have learned how to
Speaker 1: be there for you?
Speaker 3: Actually, I don't. I don't not. Once we went through
Speaker 3: Countling and I talked to my mom, and then I
Speaker 3: talked to my grandmother, I realized y'all have the same story. Right,
Speaker 3: So once I learned that, that completely is out of
Speaker 3: the window. Now now I know that she couldn't even
Speaker 3: give to me. She didn't have it. You don't even
Speaker 3: know what it looks like or feels like.
Speaker 1: Well, if you know she doesn't have it, if you
Speaker 1: know she never seen it, she didn't receive it, why
Speaker 1: are you still expecting her to give it to you?
Speaker 3: I think I'm not really expecting for her to give
Speaker 3: me an love. I I just thought, I just don't
Speaker 3: want to be her dumping board for her negativity. Like
Speaker 3: it's literally as soon as I answer it.
Speaker 1: Dump I get that. I get that, But I also
Speaker 1: want you to consider, what if you are the person
Speaker 1: she feels safe enough, familiar enough to share those things.
Speaker 1: What if as a young woman she had no place
Speaker 1: to ask questions to be nurtured or guided the same
Speaker 1: way she didn't guide and nurture you. See, the thing
Speaker 1: that I know is that children bring to life the
Speaker 1: subconscious issues of the parents, the things the parents can't see,
Speaker 1: don't see, can't accept, won't accept about themselves. Very often,
Speaker 1: the children bring those to life and they live them out.
Speaker 1: And if you're saying you were a good kid, a
Speaker 1: peaceful kid, a smart kid, you knew that there was
Speaker 1: probably a part of her she was in college that
Speaker 1: was good and peaceful and loving, or that nobody ever affirmed.
Speaker 1: You know, I know that she didn't do it for you,
Speaker 1: which says to me, nobody did it for her. But
Speaker 1: you stuck at seven or six, have made this about
Speaker 1: how she treats you and not about who she is.
Speaker 1: And when I'm hearing in your conversation you don't want
Speaker 1: your mother to be who she is.
Speaker 3: I think there's true to that where you said I
Speaker 3: don't want her to be herself because when I first
Speaker 3: came well, when she first came back there on at
Speaker 3: twenty seven, I wanted to go to counsel because I
Speaker 3: can't deal with you if you're going to be that person.
Speaker 3: But that is her and I tell her, yeah, I
Speaker 3: don't accept her, ask who she is.
Speaker 1: Here's a pearl for clutching. Okay, don't even clutch your pearls.
Speaker 1: Don't even just take this one pearl and clutch it
Speaker 1: to your bosom. What if you are doing to her
Speaker 1: the exact same thing you say she did to you.
Speaker 1: What if rejecting her, not talking to her, judging her,
Speaker 1: seeing her wrongness, not affirming her, not acknowledging her, not
Speaker 1: looking beyond your hurt and upset, not looking at her story,
Speaker 1: dismissing her truth. What if she really was raped because
Speaker 1: that simply means that somebody wanted to have sex with
Speaker 1: her and she said no. What if she really was
Speaker 1: raped in her mind? But the peace that I want
Speaker 1: you to get to love it, whether you go take
Speaker 1: care of her or not will deal with that in
Speaker 1: a minute. Is that you are doing to her the
Speaker 1: very same thing you accuse her of doing to you,
Speaker 1: which is not accepting her for who she is. She
Speaker 1: doesn't accept you because you're gay. You don't accept her
Speaker 1: because she's a wounded, broken little girl who grew into
Speaker 1: a wounded, broken woman. Let me tell you something, if
Speaker 1: your mother hated you, she would have never stepped foot
Speaker 1: in the counselor's office.
Speaker 3: I can accept that.
Speaker 1: Can you accept that? Looking at your mother, you're looking
Speaker 1: at another part of yourself. You call yourself nice and
Speaker 1: sweet and loving. You haven't said not one nice, sweet,
Speaker 1: loving thing about her. You have told me every single
Speaker 1: thing that's wrong with her. Does she have nice eyes?
Speaker 1: Does she have nice hair? Did she make you a
Speaker 1: good sandwich? Yeah? Yes, she beat you or punished you
Speaker 1: and controlled you with money. But that wasn't who she is.
Speaker 1: That's what she did from her brokenness, her wounds and
Speaker 1: won't personal. Wasn't even about you. People do what they
Speaker 1: do based on who they are and the information that
Speaker 1: they have at the time. And you've made her hurt,
Speaker 1: her brokenness, her woundedness, all about her, which she probably
Speaker 1: inherited from her mother. But you, little miss Sunshine, you
Speaker 1: probably show her things about herself that she's never even
Speaker 1: considered were present, and she can't see it. She can't
Speaker 1: accept it, she can't receive it. And it's not about you,
Speaker 1: it's about her brokenness.
Speaker 3: So if I say to her like, hey, I don't
Speaker 3: want to talk about my brother, like I create a boundary.
Speaker 3: If I create a boundary on everything.
Speaker 1: Well, first of all, you can't do that until you
Speaker 1: grow up. You got to grow yourself up in your
Speaker 1: mother's presence and be willing to stand with her woman
Speaker 1: to woman. And you still get not to like her,
Speaker 1: you know, you still get to if you wouldn't pick
Speaker 1: her as a friend. She don't have to be your friend,
Speaker 1: but she's your mother, and without her you wouldn't be here,
Speaker 1: gay or straight, Ohio or Alabama. Where's the gratitude for that?
Speaker 3: What do I do that? I don't tell what to do?
Speaker 1: Now, take a breath, Take a breath. That's what you do.
Speaker 1: You don't have to do anything. Let's see if we
Speaker 1: can get you to be thirty three. We'll talk more
Speaker 1: about it when we come back. Welcome back to the
Speaker 1: R spot. Let's get back to the conversation. I had
Speaker 1: a daughter like you who she I don't care what
Speaker 1: I did or how I did it. It was never right.
Speaker 1: She always saw the negative that I did because growing
Speaker 1: up I was so dysfunctional that I infected her with
Speaker 1: my dysfunction. And then as I healed up and cleaned up,
Speaker 1: even though she grew up, she still saw me as dysfunctional.
Speaker 1: So I heard you say that your your mother now
Speaker 1: has cancer and she had an accident and she can't walk.
Speaker 1: So I want you to close your eyes for a minute.
Speaker 1: Close your eyes for just a minute, and I want
Speaker 1: you to see your mom as you know her, to
Speaker 1: be bandaged from head to toe like a mummy. The
Speaker 1: only thing that's out is her eyes and her nose
Speaker 1: and her mouth. Can't see her hair, you can't see
Speaker 1: her head. You can't see her arms, her fingers, her legs. Nothing,
Speaker 1: see her bandaged. And how would you treat her? How
Speaker 1: would you treat her if you walked into a room
Speaker 1: and that's what she looked like? What would you do?
Speaker 3: Probably give her something to eat through a straw?
Speaker 1: How about ask her mom, do you need anything?
Speaker 3: I think this is important. I don't know. I feel
Speaker 3: like I need to give this to you. But when
Speaker 3: I was in a Fio in July, it was the
Speaker 3: last time I got there she called me because it
Speaker 3: was like a week you know that call I told
Speaker 3: you about where she dumped all of it on me
Speaker 3: for a week. After my older brother was having a
Speaker 3: baby shower, so I flew to Ohio and she had
Speaker 3: an accident. That's how she ended up mouth walking. She
Speaker 3: already had the cancer, was walking when she goes me
Speaker 3: when I got there. It was the day before I
Speaker 3: got there, she had the accident that landed her in
Speaker 3: the hospital. And when I walked into the hospital and
Speaker 3: she called me at the baby showers, I couldn't even
Speaker 3: enjoy the baby shower, which kind of irritating me because
Speaker 3: I was over here for thirty minutes she called. So
Speaker 3: of course I went to the hospital with both my
Speaker 3: brothers because we were all there. And when I walked
Speaker 3: in and I seen her in the hospital bed, there
Speaker 3: was a part of me that came up that was
Speaker 3: like it was like not happy that she was there,
Speaker 3: but it was more so like, yeah, that's how I
Speaker 3: felt as a kid, and I felt so bad or
Speaker 3: feeling like that, but I didn't it just came up,
Speaker 3: like to see her in pain. Yeah, that's how I thought.
Speaker 1: That's a typical seven year old response. Good for you,
Speaker 1: see see good for you. That's normal.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 1: And now you, as a thirty three year old, were
Speaker 1: probably horrified.
Speaker 3: Yeah I was.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but that's what a kid would do. And that's
Speaker 1: what I really want you to get. You're not dealing
Speaker 1: with your mom as a thirty three year old, rational,
Speaker 1: rationally minded woman. You're still dealing with her from the
Speaker 1: fear and they're upset and their anger as a seven
Speaker 1: year old. And that's fine, but you just have to
Speaker 1: be aware of that and do something different as a
Speaker 1: thirty three year old woman, create clear boundaries with her
Speaker 1: and again dealing woman to woman, not child to adult.
Speaker 1: Woman to woman. You want to come from a place
Speaker 1: of love, honor, and respect. Ma, I can't. I can't
Speaker 1: with you. I can't do me a favor. It breaks
Speaker 1: my heart when you talk about my brother like that.
Speaker 1: So I'm going to make a request that you don't
Speaker 1: talk to me about my brother in that way. You
Speaker 1: can ask me a question, you can ask me my opinion,
Speaker 1: but that cussing him and I can't. I can't do that.
Speaker 1: With you please, And if she doesn't have a good
Speaker 1: response about that, and you say, okay, Ma, when you
Speaker 1: call me and you talk about my brother like that,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna end the conversation. I'll call you back later,
Speaker 1: but we're not going to do that. I'm not going
Speaker 1: to do that with you. That's how a thirty three
Speaker 1: year old woman speaks to another woman. You make the requests,
Speaker 1: you create the boundary, and then you implement the consequence. Wow,
Speaker 1: and she'll forget. And every time she forgets, you remind
Speaker 1: her you're not seven. At seven you had to stand
Speaker 1: outside the door. At seven, she could hit you. At seven,
Speaker 1: you said. At nineteen, when you were stepping into your
Speaker 1: womanness that you said, Oh, she tries to control me
Speaker 1: with money. Let me do something about this. You made
Speaker 1: another choice. You stop participating in the drama. See, you
Speaker 1: and your mother are deep in the drama. And in
Speaker 1: the drama, there's the victim, there's the rescuer, and there's
Speaker 1: the persecutor. And she keeps playing different roles with you're
Speaker 1: her victim, but you want her to rescue you. Why
Speaker 1: don't you like me? Why don't you love me? Why
Speaker 1: don't you treat me? This? Way, and then she's your persecutor.
Speaker 1: But she can only be your persecutor if you stay
Speaker 1: the victim. And it's not you at thirty three, that's
Speaker 1: the victim. It's the seven year old. So you got
Speaker 1: to take care of your seven year old. And the
Speaker 1: way we can get you to be thirty three is
Speaker 1: to give that seven year old a voice and let
Speaker 1: her talk about all of the things that she needs
Speaker 1: to say to her mommy, because that's who's in trouble.
Speaker 1: You fine, you, okay, it's that little girl. Can you
Speaker 1: see her in your mind when you come home and
Speaker 1: mommy's in the room drinking and smoking. So let's do this.
Speaker 1: Let her go outside your mom's her mom's been room door.
Speaker 1: Let her go outside her mom's bedroom door. And what
Speaker 1: does she want to say to her mom? Let her
Speaker 1: just stand there and talk to the door. Take a breath,
Speaker 1: and I'm scared. Yeah, I'm scared, Mommy. Say that I'm scared, mommy.
Speaker 1: Tell her what you're scared of I'm.
Speaker 3: Scared of her because at any moment, she could book
Speaker 3: I'm scared of you.
Speaker 1: No, no, talk to her. I'm scared of you because.
Speaker 3: I'm scared of you because at any moment, you could
Speaker 3: just blow up for no reason.
Speaker 1: How about I'm scared of the way you treat me.
Speaker 1: I'm scared of the way you hit me. I'm scared
Speaker 1: of the way you yell at me. How about that.
Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what
Speaker 3: else I can do to be a good child. Like
Speaker 3: I just feel like a bad child, and I know
Speaker 3: I'm not bad.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you make me feel bad? Mommy? Tell her?
Speaker 3: Do you like me? Feel bad? Mommy?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Confuses me and you hurt me. Yes, yes, you
Speaker 1: confuse me.
Speaker 3: You confuse me.
Speaker 1: Tell her you confuse me and you hurt me, and
Speaker 1: and what else? Yeah? And I just want you to
Speaker 1: love me.
Speaker 3: Yes, I just want you to love me and actually
Speaker 3: pay attention to me, like see me please?
Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't see me.
Speaker 4: Because it was paying attention and you pay attention to
Speaker 4: the micro and I'm just in the middle.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just let her cry for a minute. Just let
Speaker 2: her cry.
Speaker 1: How come you don't like me? Mommy? How come you
Speaker 1: don't like me? Ask her?
Speaker 3: How come you don't like me?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 3: What am I doing wrong? That's what it is?
Speaker 4: Like? What am I doing wrong? I just feel like
Speaker 4: no matter what I do, I do everything. You take
Speaker 4: care of my baby brother, Like, like, what what am
Speaker 4: I doing wrong?
Speaker 1: Like you're not doing anything wrong, baby, I just don't
Speaker 1: have it. I know you need it, I know you
Speaker 1: want it. I just don't have it. And every time
Speaker 1: I see you, it reminds me of what I don't have.
Speaker 1: So I just stay behind this door. I just stay
Speaker 1: here because I don't have what you need because I
Speaker 1: never got it. I never got it, and what little
Speaker 1: bit I had I lost. Trying to get people to
Speaker 1: love me, trying to get people to make me feel better,
Speaker 1: trying to feel better about myself. I see you, I
Speaker 1: see you, and I don't like what I see because
Speaker 1: I don't have it. I can't believe that something as
Speaker 1: precious and beautiful as you came from me. I can't
Speaker 1: believe that. So I try to stay away from you,
Speaker 1: hoping that you'll get what you need forgive me. I
Speaker 1: don't know what else to do do, but look at you.
Speaker 1: You're beautiful, you're successful. You want me to see you.
Speaker 1: I don't want you to see me. Okay, take a breath.
Speaker 1: I want to hear it. Come on, breee, you want
Speaker 1: to blow your nose yeah, let me blood. Okay, go
Speaker 1: blow your nose. I'll wait for you. I'll hummmm is
Speaker 1: that better? Yeah? Your little girl probably triggers her little girl,
Speaker 1: and if her little girl is broken and wounded, then
Speaker 1: it's just gonna be two little girls together. That's why
Speaker 1: she's coming to you saying f this and this one. Now,
Speaker 1: she's gossiping with you. That's what little girls do. She's
Speaker 1: gossip y'all, a gossipin and you calling it negativity. That's
Speaker 1: how she's communicating. You're stuck at seven. She's probably stuck
Speaker 1: in eleven or twelve. And I just I have to
Speaker 1: bring to your awareness, beloved, that you haven't said one
Speaker 1: positive thing about your mother in this conversation. Not one.
Speaker 1: So I got one more question to ask you, and
Speaker 1: then we're gonna give you a prescription so you can
Speaker 1: move forward. And I want the absolute rot gut from
Speaker 1: the pit of your belly. Truth. Why do you want
Speaker 1: to be in relationship with your mother?
Speaker 3: Because when I'm not with her, I feel like a
Speaker 3: piece of musiness.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, And now you're being asked to take care
Speaker 1: of somebody that you don't feel took care of you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what a powerful, powerful blessing that is because you get
Speaker 1: to be for her who she wasn't for you. You
Speaker 1: get to be there, You get to be kind, loving, compassionate,
Speaker 1: You get to heal up some stuff. You get to
Speaker 1: sit with her and talk with her now the way
Speaker 1: you didn't when you were twelve and thirteen. But if
Speaker 1: you don't want to do it, don't do it because
Speaker 1: you cannot do it from obligation. To do it from
Speaker 1: obligation would be harmful to you and to her. You'll
Speaker 1: be resentful, you'll be angry, you'll be mean. Don't do it.
Speaker 1: But what if, what if her lessons, her healing, her
Speaker 1: evolution in life is going to come from being mothered
Speaker 1: by the person she didn't mother. What if this isn't
Speaker 1: her lesson, This is your lesson, and maybe her lesson
Speaker 1: is to learn how to receive it. Because the same
Speaker 1: way you know she didn't take care of you, she
Speaker 1: knows she didn't take care of you, telling you she
Speaker 1: didn't have it to give, and how she responds to
Speaker 1: it now it's not your business. But if you can
Speaker 1: find it in your heart to be for her who
Speaker 1: she wasn't for you, what a powerful blessing on your
Speaker 1: life so sit with it. Sit with it and see
Speaker 1: how it feels. But don't go into it trying to
Speaker 1: get her to be who you need her to be.
Speaker 1: Go into it being who you are and accepting her
Speaker 1: as she is. How she responds is none of your business,
Speaker 1: because it's going to take a great deal of humility
Speaker 1: and surrender for her to allow you to take care
Speaker 1: of her. She may have it, she may not. I
Speaker 1: don't know, but I know all things are lessons that
Speaker 1: our creator would have us learn. So this is your
Speaker 1: learning curve. It's probably hers too, But I'm not talking
Speaker 1: to her. I'm talking to you. In the book Forgiveness
Speaker 1: forty Days to Forgive Everyone for Everything, I have an
Speaker 1: entire section on forgiving your mother. If you get a chance,
Speaker 1: get that book and do that work. You got to
Speaker 1: forgive you your thoughts about her, your beliefs about her,
Speaker 1: your judgments about her, and your feelings about her. Not
Speaker 1: that you don't have a right to have those thoughts, beliefs,
Speaker 1: feelings based on your experience, but to forgive them opens
Speaker 1: you up to see things from a different perspective. What's
Speaker 1: going to be different when you get off this call?
Speaker 3: What's going to be different? Is my mindset about the
Speaker 3: story that I told myself. To be honest, I've told
Speaker 3: myself a very horrific story, and I've repeated that.
Speaker 1: Story, traumatizing and over traumatizing yourself.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I tell that story. Is different now I
Speaker 3: have more understanding of her positions and even my position
Speaker 3: and my opportunity to grow.
Speaker 1: But here's what I want you to do, because your
Speaker 1: seven year old still needs healing. When that anger and
Speaker 1: that whatever it is, you know, you know what it
Speaker 1: is comes up in you, I want you to take
Speaker 1: a breath and tell your seven year old I got this,
Speaker 1: because it's not the thirty three year old who's doing that.
Speaker 1: So we want to take care of the seven year old.
Speaker 1: So you almost have to remother yourself because it'll come up,
Speaker 1: you know, as soon as she says something or does
Speaker 1: something or tells one of her negative stories, your seven
Speaker 1: year old is going to freak out. So within yourself
Speaker 1: you have to say, wait a minute, baby, calm down,
Speaker 1: I got this. I got this. You sit right here,
Speaker 1: I got this, and then you allow the thirty three
Speaker 1: year old to deal with mom. Yeah, this is a
Speaker 1: major turning point for you because you're thirty three years old,
Speaker 1: the dark night of the soul where you're getting a
Speaker 1: chance to kind of rewire yourself and recreate yourself. But
Speaker 1: you can't continue to re traumatize yourself. You have to
Speaker 1: respond differently. Every time it comes up. You gotta respond differently. Okay, Yes,
Speaker 1: let me know how you're doing. Okay, And if you go,
Speaker 1: take care of mom. No heat, no judgment anyway, any
Speaker 1: either way you choose, because if you think you have
Speaker 1: to go, don't go. Go when you feel you can
Speaker 1: do it from a loving space.
Speaker 3: Okay, Thank you so much, Anne, I really truly appreciate you,
Speaker 3: like I'm so grateful for this God. Thank you, and
Speaker 3: thank you for showing me myself.
Speaker 1: Thank you for trusting me with your story and with
Speaker 1: your tears. Thank you. It is an honor. Take good care,
Speaker 1: mean too. All right, bye bye. Let's be clear, there
Speaker 1: are many mothers out there who are not who their
Speaker 1: children need and want them to be, but they are
Speaker 1: who they are, and when those children become adult, the
Speaker 1: work is not traumatizing yourself about what your mother didn't
Speaker 1: do or who she wasn't It's about seeing her for
Speaker 1: who she is today, a woman with a history and
Speaker 1: a story and having compassion for that so that you
Speaker 1: can step fully into your adult self and learn how
Speaker 1: to deal with your mother or any parent from an
Speaker 1: adult space, not as a wounded, broken child, because no
Speaker 1: matter what she gave you or didn't give you, you
Speaker 1: are who you are today because of her. The R
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