1 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:07,840 Speaker 1: I'm Stephen Merchant. I was the co creator of the 2 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:11,479 Speaker 1: British version of the Office, and I'm an executive producer 3 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:19,239 Speaker 1: on the American version. Hello, dear listeners, and welcome to 4 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 1: another installment of The Office Deep Dive. I'm your host, 5 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 1: Brian bam Gartner. Now today I am thrilled to present 6 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:33,839 Speaker 1: you with a guest from across the pond over in 7 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 1: jolly old England, Mr Stephen Merchant. Stephen was the co 8 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 1: creator of the original British version of the Office. He 9 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:48,880 Speaker 1: along with Ricky Gervais. Now, what the two of them 10 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 1: did with that show was truly groundbreaking and obviously was 11 00:00:56,280 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 1: the inspiration and basis of our show, but they have 12 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 1: also had a huge influence on comedy in general, both 13 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:09,639 Speaker 1: here in the US and in the UK, where based 14 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:13,760 Speaker 1: on their accents I'm guessing they are from. So you know, 15 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 1: when we were setting up these interviews, I was kind 16 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:20,839 Speaker 1: of thinking, oh, well, I might get a free trip 17 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:22,840 Speaker 1: to London out of this, right, I mean, I've I've 18 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 1: got to meet with Ricky and Stephen in person. Of 19 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 1: course I gotta go to London. And then a global 20 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:36,559 Speaker 1: pandemic happened, so sadly that was not going to happen, 21 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 1: but I feel very lucky that we got to speak 22 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:44,680 Speaker 1: by phone from our respective homes. I think you guys 23 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 1: are going to love this one. So, without further ado, 24 00:01:49,600 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 1: my tallest friend Stephen Merchant, bub I love it. Bubble 25 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 1: and squiger, bubble and squeaker cooking every more left over 26 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 1: from the nat popley. How are you doing? You know, 27 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 1: I mean as well as anyone can be selected to, 28 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:28,800 Speaker 1: you know, given the crazy circumstances. Yes, you're you're in London, 29 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 1: I mean London, and same lockdown rules apply here as 30 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 1: they apply restaurant and yeah, just you know, porting around 31 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 1: I mean quite as relaxed fit. I think the demarcation 32 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:45,799 Speaker 1: between my sleepwear and my day wear is very, very blurred. 33 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 1: I know the people who get dressed up to go 34 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 1: to work at home, I don't understand those people. I 35 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 1: do encourage at least showering before you start working. Really. Yeah, 36 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 1: that's a good idea and it's a good rule of thub. Yeah, 37 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 1: it's probably good. Um, how did you know Ricky before 38 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 1: you guys started the office or or how did that 39 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 1: come about? Well, so I met Ricky Gervaise at radio 40 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 1: station here in London. I had wanted to get into radio. 41 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 1: I always thought that being like a radio DJ seemed 42 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 1: like a very easy job. You could do maybe two 43 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 1: hours a day, and then you would give you a 44 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:23,640 Speaker 1: lot of free time to do other stuff, whether it 45 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:26,520 Speaker 1: was writing or stand up or whatever other aspirations I had. 46 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 1: So I was keen to get into radio, and I 47 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:31,359 Speaker 1: am I was quite young. I was in my early twenties. 48 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 1: And I sent my resume to various radio stations and 49 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 1: no one cared. But a new radio station was launching 50 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 1: in London, and one of the guys who happened to 51 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 1: read my resume was Ricky, who was just got a 52 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 1: job there, and he had never had any experience in radio. 53 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 1: And it's not how sweet talked his way into a 54 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 1: job there. As get this that the head of speech, 55 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 1: the head of job title, the head of speech. I mean, 56 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 1: if you've ever heard Ricky Stringer sentence together, often it's incoherent. 57 00:03:57,480 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: So I don't know how he got that gig. So 58 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 1: I he immediately decided he needed an assistance, and so 59 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 1: I was available and keen and eager, and and so 60 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 1: he called up for an interview and we hit it off, 61 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 1: and you know, I started working at this radio station together. Right, 62 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 1: he needed an assistant, but really he needed someone to 63 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:19,480 Speaker 1: actually teach him speech and also someone who, as he 64 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:22,600 Speaker 1: himself admitted during the interview, someone who will do all 65 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:25,839 Speaker 1: the work for me. Um. And I was kind of eager, 66 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 1: and I didn't have a job, and I had done 67 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 1: a little bit of sort of amateur radio and student radio, 68 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 1: so I had a little bit of an understanding of it. 69 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 1: And so, you know, we we hit it off very quickly, 70 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:40,280 Speaker 1: similar sense of humor, and within a short while we 71 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:43,480 Speaker 1: were sort of actually hosting a radio show together on 72 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 1: on the air, and just had a good, easy rapport, 73 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 1: you know, and and a similar sensibility, and and we 74 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 1: sort of very quickly realized we you know, we had 75 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 1: sort of a chemistry, right. And then you obviously you 76 00:04:57,080 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 1: you started working together. What were the influences for you 77 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 1: at the time to create the UK office. Well, at 78 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:09,239 Speaker 1: the time in the UK, there had been a number 79 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:12,600 Speaker 1: of shows on the BBC and other networks that were 80 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 1: fly on the wall documentaries about very everyday subjects, like 81 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:20,280 Speaker 1: there was there was one about a driving school, driving school, yes, 82 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 1: and it was yeah, and so you know, it was 83 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:26,920 Speaker 1: just following normal people doing driving lessons and driving tests 84 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:30,479 Speaker 1: and this kind of a wave of popularity in the UK. 85 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:34,160 Speaker 1: And so when we did our version, we had those 86 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 1: sorts of shows in our minds. And one of the 87 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 1: unusual things about those shows was that often, particularly when 88 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 1: they returned for like a second season, the people within 89 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: them had sort of become moderate, moderately famous, right, So 90 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 1: they were those first kind of reality TV stars, and 91 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:53,159 Speaker 1: and they started to act differently in front of the 92 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 1: cameras or they were aware of the cameras, and so 93 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 1: I think that was something that was always informing us, 94 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 1: you know, the idea that this documentary team were following 95 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 1: this person in the in the case of David brent 96 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:06,159 Speaker 1: by Ricky who who was also aware that he was 97 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 1: being filmed and so therefore was trying to give over 98 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 1: a version of himself that he thought the world would 99 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:15,839 Speaker 1: love to see. And of course what he didn't realize 100 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:17,600 Speaker 1: was they are actually looking at him and finding an 101 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 1: interesting different reasons than those that he intended, right right, Yeah, 102 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:25,040 Speaker 1: that's very interesting. I mean, now the skips ahead like 103 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 1: you know, fifteen years or whatever, but it's very interesting. 104 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:31,160 Speaker 1: You know. That's one of the things that Greg Daniels 105 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:35,679 Speaker 1: always said was that for the characters on the American 106 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:38,479 Speaker 1: version of the Office, if they ever saw themselves, like 107 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 1: if it was ever released, it would change everything right Well, 108 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 1: in the in the British version, we did because the 109 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:48,920 Speaker 1: British version had fewer seasons. We did when we returned 110 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 1: for some Christmas specials towards the end of the run, 111 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 1: we did actually play with the idea that the characters 112 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:57,360 Speaker 1: had seen the documentary it aired and that they had 113 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 1: various particularly case of Ricky's character had disgruntlements about the 114 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:04,159 Speaker 1: way they've been portrayed, which is often the complaint you'd 115 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:06,560 Speaker 1: hear from real reality people, right that you know, and 116 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:08,839 Speaker 1: they kind of in a certain way they maybe look cool, 117 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 1: And so we were playing with that idea and I 118 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 1: guess you had it with sort of MTV is the 119 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 1: real World? I guess did. It was one of the pioneers. 120 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 1: And in the UK there was that show Big Brother, 121 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 1: which I know is still on in various versions all 122 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 1: over the world, and that just kind of hit the 123 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 1: airwaves as well. And those people were coming out of 124 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 1: this this house as reality TV stars, So it was 125 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 1: a big cultural thing at the time, right. Were there 126 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 1: specific comedies or other television that sort of informed the 127 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 1: sensibility or the sense of humor that you were looking 128 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 1: at at the time. Well, certainly This is Final Tap 129 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 1: was a big influence, and the Larry Sanders Show was 130 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 1: something that we often referenced. And there's actually been quite 131 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 1: a few if you have fake documentaries in movies over 132 00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:00,679 Speaker 1: the years, but there have been few of them on TV. 133 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 1: It seemed to us and and you know, in a 134 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 1: way because it sort of originated because I happened to 135 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 1: get a job at the BBC. I was worried in 136 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 1: my radio job with Ricky that we might end up 137 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 1: getting fired rich I think we did. So I had 138 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 1: jumped ship and I joined the BBC, and while I 139 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 1: was there, I had a training exercise and they gave 140 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 1: me a camera team for a day and they said, 141 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 1: you want to go to film something. And I went 142 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 1: off and went to Ricky and I said, let's film something. 143 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 1: And what we filmed sort of became a prototype of 144 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 1: the office. And one of the reasons we did that 145 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 1: in a documentary style was because it was quick and easy. 146 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:35,319 Speaker 1: You know, it didn't it didn't need to have all 147 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:37,320 Speaker 1: the kind of polish and refinement that you get on 148 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:39,680 Speaker 1: a regular TV So in a way we we slightly 149 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:43,920 Speaker 1: fell into this format through circumstance, but because we pursued that, 150 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 1: and we became very obsessive about the reality of this 151 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:51,200 Speaker 1: world and wherever the cameras being. How would the people 152 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 1: act in front of the camera if they knew it 153 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 1: was watching them? Would they be honest? Would Tim say 154 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 1: to Dawn, Jim and Pan would they would they be 155 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:00,440 Speaker 1: honest with each other about their fee things for one 156 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:02,040 Speaker 1: of the well, of course not, because the cameras are 157 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 1: in their face and they don't want to reveal their 158 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:07,079 Speaker 1: hidden secrets. And so it sort of started becoming its 159 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 1: own thing, which I think I felt at the time 160 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 1: quite new on TV. But it wasn't sort of like 161 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 1: a you know, a grand design. We didn't sort of 162 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 1: sit there and think what's fresh and new. It just 163 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 1: all these things kept suggesting themselves to us, because we 164 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 1: were trying to make you feel as realistic as possible, 165 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:29,719 Speaker 1: as though you could stumble on the TV network and 166 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 1: you'd find it and you might think it was a 167 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 1: real documentary. In fact, funny enough, after the first episode aired, 168 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:37,440 Speaker 1: I was on a train and obviously people had no idea. 169 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:39,600 Speaker 1: Who I was. I was just a writer. And these 170 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 1: two women were talking on the train and I was 171 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 1: sat next to them, and they said. One of them said, 172 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: or did you see that documentary on TV last night 173 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 1: about this crazy guy in this office? It was hilarious, 174 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 1: And the other woman said, well, no, I think I 175 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 1: think that was a new comedy. And the first woman said, oh, well, 176 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:59,680 Speaker 1: it wasn't very funny. Then I didn't understand. But but 177 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 1: what were interesting was that she had been fooled for 178 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:03,680 Speaker 1: a second into thinking it was the real thing, which 179 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:07,080 Speaker 1: was the biggest compliment that we could we could hope for, right, 180 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 1: I mean, I remember hearing that a lot over here. 181 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 1: Did how was it received early on? I think it 182 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:18,559 Speaker 1: was sort of had very low viewership initially. I think 183 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:22,199 Speaker 1: there's been some good critical notices here and there, but 184 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 1: no one was really watching. I think it went on 185 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:26,560 Speaker 1: in the summer, which is not a prime TV time 186 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 1: in the UK. And I remember they had done it. 187 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 1: We found this out many years later, but they had 188 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 1: done a test screening for the general public and it 189 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 1: had got the lowest test score ever. The only thing 190 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 1: that beat him, that got the lowest test score was 191 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 1: women's lawn bowls, the very specific game played by I 192 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:48,200 Speaker 1: guess women in the UK. They roll balls along the 193 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 1: lawn and that was the only thing that I didn't 194 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 1: even though that was on TV. But it scored lower 195 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 1: in the Office. And yet what happened was it just 196 00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 1: started to pick up steam. It got word of mouth 197 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 1: recommendations from people, It started to win some awards. It 198 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 1: was rerun in the in the winter, and more people 199 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:09,160 Speaker 1: started watching it. And then there was the moment in 200 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:11,680 Speaker 1: time when DVDs were really big. I would started buying 201 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:14,480 Speaker 1: DVD players, and so I think that it started selling 202 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:16,440 Speaker 1: a lot of DVDs because I think people were like, oh, 203 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 1: I can buy that guy I know in the office 204 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:22,720 Speaker 1: that show called The Office. And so solely we sold 205 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:24,680 Speaker 1: so many DVDs because it was called The Office and 206 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 1: people have a lot of work colleagues they need to 207 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:30,480 Speaker 1: buy gifts for. It's a and then it and then 208 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:32,600 Speaker 1: it just became a kind of here in the UK. 209 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 1: It became a little mini phenomenon. Yes, well in the 210 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:39,319 Speaker 1: States too, we were getting I remember there were DVDs 211 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 1: coming over, but the DVDs in the UK were different 212 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 1: than so you had to make sure you've got an 213 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 1: America one that would play an American player, right, Yes, 214 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 1: of course, yes, my sister had an early one who 215 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 1: was over there. But yeah, I, um, did you think 216 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:57,320 Speaker 1: that adapting the show when you started to first hear 217 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 1: about this guy, Ben Silverman be wanting to adapt it 218 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:02,680 Speaker 1: for the U S, did you think that was a 219 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:07,800 Speaker 1: good idea? Well, I remember, Ricky, I was. We must 220 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 1: have been editing something, because Ricky I remember, came in 221 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:11,520 Speaker 1: the editing for you said, I just ran into this 222 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 1: guy called Ben Silverman or Ben Silman to track him 223 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:16,319 Speaker 1: down and called him and he had had this initial 224 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:19,679 Speaker 1: meeting about doing a version for the United States. And 225 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 1: I remember staying at the time, oh, well, that would 226 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 1: be great, but the chances of that working are very slim. 227 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 1: I when I was a kid, I was a real 228 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:32,440 Speaker 1: fan of TV and Pomin read a lot about it, 229 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 1: and I knew a lot about American comedy, and I 230 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:37,680 Speaker 1: knew that they had tried to adapt very successful British 231 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 1: shows for America and many of them had failed for 232 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 1: one reason or another. And so I was aware that 233 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:46,840 Speaker 1: the success rate was very low, and that and that 234 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 1: we shouldn't get too excited about this as a sort 235 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:53,320 Speaker 1: of potential next phase of our careers because I just 236 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 1: I just thought, well, it's probably not going to work out, 237 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:58,080 Speaker 1: even with the best will in the world, So why 238 00:12:58,120 --> 00:12:59,679 Speaker 1: not let's let them do it? And you know, but 239 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 1: to them and it would be fun. And I was 240 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 1: a big fan and I'm a big fan of American comedy, 241 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 1: and you know, certainly a big influence on us was 242 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 1: like Cheers and the idea of you know, the Cheers 243 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:12,000 Speaker 1: bar is this kind of surrogut family, which is very 244 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 1: much what the Office is, I guess in anyways, And 245 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 1: so we were excited about the idea of it being 246 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:20,559 Speaker 1: on American TV and having an American version, but but 247 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 1: also very realistic that it seemed unlikely it would it 248 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 1: would succeed for whatever reason. Yes, so Ben Silverman approaches 249 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:55,080 Speaker 1: you about adapting the series for America. Do you remember 250 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:57,319 Speaker 1: the first time you met Ben. I don't think anyone 251 00:13:57,360 --> 00:13:59,439 Speaker 1: can forget the first time they meet Ben Silverman. He 252 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:00,959 Speaker 1: is a sort of as you well know, a kind 253 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 1: of force of nature. Um. Just yeah, it's like a 254 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 1: man who has drunk, you know, fifteen espresso's just directly 255 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 1: before the meeting, just really get himself awake, and he's 256 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:18,760 Speaker 1: often running, and he's whenever they do movies about Hollywood, 257 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 1: they always have like a producer character. It was like 258 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 1: a tok about a minute, you know what, we're gonna 259 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 1: make you. We're gonna make you start kid, and he's 260 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 1: kind of like that. You know, Benny is like the 261 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 1: kind of Hollywood producer cliche that you see in movies. 262 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:35,080 Speaker 1: And yet listen, it works. You know, he's dynamic and 263 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 1: he and he got the thing moving and it seemed like, 264 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 1: you know, before we knew it, we were having meetings 265 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 1: in the US, sitting down to talk with potential show 266 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 1: runners and and we were off to the races. Did 267 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 1: you so you know, you you trust this guy Ben, 268 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 1: and you meet Greg and you feel like he understands it. 269 00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 1: Was there a certain point that you thought that it 270 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 1: might work for American audiences or were you still being 271 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 1: sort of realists and skeptical that it would translate. You know, 272 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:09,920 Speaker 1: we were very infused by Greg and Gregg came to 273 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 1: London and they sat with us and we kind of 274 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 1: dissected the British version and we tried to explain, you 275 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 1: know what, you know, the kind of socio economics standing 276 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 1: of all the characters. So he could kind of get 277 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 1: his head around where they would be equivalent in the US. 278 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:26,840 Speaker 1: Where would you know, scranted replace his slough and all 279 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 1: these other things which he had to kind of understand. 280 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 1: And he was very sensitive and thoughtful about that stuff, 281 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 1: which is exciting for us. But then it was obviously 282 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 1: then he's casting and could they find the guy that 283 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:39,440 Speaker 1: would replace Ricky? And so I just remember each step 284 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 1: of the way we were kind of not suspicious or nervous, 285 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:46,400 Speaker 1: but just thinking, oh, they will probably evaporate, right well, 286 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 1: and the show struggled, you know, early on for you know, 287 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 1: people didn't get it, and it was so unlike anything 288 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 1: that was on television and in America we didn't have 289 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 1: also the shows that you were sort of directly mocking, 290 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 1: right there was like, you know, MTV is the real world, right, 291 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:08,240 Speaker 1: but those were all about sexy young people. There wasn't 292 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 1: Driving School or shows like that that that you know, 293 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 1: it was sort of directly mocking. And I heard a 294 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 1: story as well that you know, when we came back 295 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 1: and we were going to come back for a season 296 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 1: two and they only offered six more episodes, and it 297 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 1: certainly looked like they were you know, because Steve had 298 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 1: four year old version. They were sort of keeping us 299 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 1: on life support because they didn't want to look like idiots, 300 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:34,680 Speaker 1: but they still didn't believe in it. That NBC said, Okay, 301 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 1: you can do six, but you have to cut the 302 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:42,240 Speaker 1: budget and everybody has to take less. And Ben went 303 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:44,760 Speaker 1: first to you and Ricky and thought you guys would 304 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 1: say like, no, like this is this was the deal 305 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 1: that we made, but that you, Greg, Ricky, everybody said no, 306 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 1: let's give it a shot. I mean, do you remember 307 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 1: was that just based on you wanting the show to 308 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 1: go on, or did you at that point think that 309 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 1: there was something that was brewing there. I definitely remember 310 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:07,359 Speaker 1: thinking I was very pleased with what Greg and everyone 311 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:09,680 Speaker 1: had done in that first season, but I do remember 312 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:12,920 Speaker 1: thinking that I actually wanted them to break away from 313 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 1: the British version more. I still felt there was a 314 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:17,679 Speaker 1: little bit of a feeling of like clinging onto some 315 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:19,919 Speaker 1: of the vibes or elements, or or trying to be 316 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:22,200 Speaker 1: a little too faithful to us. And what was exciting 317 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 1: was the more that the show was moving away from 318 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:27,359 Speaker 1: the British version. And I think whether it was a 319 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 1: conversation with greg Or, but I suddenly felt that that 320 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 1: was a plan that was starting to brew for the 321 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 1: second season, and I was very keen, and I know 322 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:36,960 Speaker 1: Rickie was just to kind of you know, we we 323 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 1: liked everybody and we wanted to show to do well 324 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:41,480 Speaker 1: and whatever we could do to help and keep it 325 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:43,520 Speaker 1: on the air was important to us. I mean. The 326 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 1: funny thing for us, you remember, is that we were 327 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:48,960 Speaker 1: here in the UK, so this was before streaming services, 328 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:51,920 Speaker 1: so we only saw the episodes on like DVDs which 329 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:54,440 Speaker 1: they had to mail over to us, and we would 330 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:56,119 Speaker 1: watch them. And you know, what was weird to me 331 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:59,440 Speaker 1: was that when we did our version, we were so 332 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,720 Speaker 1: old that obviously we never got to kind of enjoy 333 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:05,479 Speaker 1: it as a viewer, you know, we only ever enjoyed it, 334 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:08,439 Speaker 1: you know, in little fragments here and there. When we 335 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 1: got sent these DVDs from America, it was like someone 336 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 1: had designed this show that was like on our prototype, 337 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 1: and we were getting to enjoy it as fans, you know. 338 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 1: We would just sit there and laugh and enjoy it, 339 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 1: and and it was weird. It was like some kind 340 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 1: of weird competition where you write in, hey, would you 341 00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:26,680 Speaker 1: make a show about this? And they sort of mail 342 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:30,400 Speaker 1: into you every week, you know, and so we were 343 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 1: very keen just as fans, we were keen to have 344 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:35,159 Speaker 1: it keep on the air. So you liked it? You 345 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:39,199 Speaker 1: like you like it? Yeah? Oh yeah, yeah absolutely. I 346 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 1: thought everyone was great and honestly I was, I was 347 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:45,720 Speaker 1: all in. Yeah. In season two, you know, one of 348 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:49,119 Speaker 1: the things that you know was done. You talk about 349 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:52,119 Speaker 1: veering from the British show, and I think a major 350 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:55,440 Speaker 1: thing that happened there in season two was the decision 351 00:18:55,520 --> 00:19:00,199 Speaker 1: to soften Michael Scott, right, to not make him exactly 352 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:02,399 Speaker 1: like David Brynn. I mean, David Brent to me is 353 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 1: a genius character that had a shelf life right like 354 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:08,000 Speaker 1: after twelve episodes, it's hard for him to still have 355 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:11,520 Speaker 1: a job, right and to have the show, to have 356 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:15,399 Speaker 1: the show continue, you know, softening and bringing out more 357 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:17,639 Speaker 1: of the humanity of Michael Scott. Were you in support 358 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 1: of that? Well? It's funny because I think again it 359 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:25,440 Speaker 1: goes to what the traditions are in our two countries 360 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 1: in terms of comedy, and I think for years in 361 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 1: the U came in particular, there's been this long tradition 362 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:36,679 Speaker 1: of TV comedies celebrating losers and sort of laughing and 363 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:41,119 Speaker 1: losers often losers who have a slightly malevolent quality or 364 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 1: a selfishness to them. So I think back to in 365 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 1: the in the sixties, but the biggest TV star in 366 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:48,920 Speaker 1: the UK was a guy called Tony Hancock whose character 367 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 1: was a kind of sort of failed actor who was 368 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:56,359 Speaker 1: kind of snobbish and would happily, you know, screw someone 369 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 1: over for an opportunity, and that was that was a 370 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:00,639 Speaker 1: show that cleared the streets when was on, you know. 371 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 1: And then John Kesar's Basil Faulty in the seventies, the 372 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 1: kind of sort of obnoxious hotel manager. So there's a 373 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:11,400 Speaker 1: long tradition in the UK of slightly unlikable leading characters 374 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:14,760 Speaker 1: in comedy, a plus combined with the fact that somehow 375 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 1: in the UK we tolerated that bitter sweetness, that melancholy. 376 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:20,919 Speaker 1: I mean, there was a show on that was a 377 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 1: big show in the UK when I was growing up 378 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:24,800 Speaker 1: called Whatever Happened to the Likely Lads? And it had 379 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:27,680 Speaker 1: a theme tong and the opening lyrics of the theme 380 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:31,879 Speaker 1: song of this this is a sitcom, Remember where was all? 381 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:35,000 Speaker 1: What happened to you, Whatever happened to Me? What became 382 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 1: of the people? We used to be. I mean, it 383 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 1: was all about failed opportunities and and mischances and lives, 384 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 1: a life that could have been lived and thereone. So 385 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:47,439 Speaker 1: there's that sort of tradition in the UK, and I 386 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:50,679 Speaker 1: think traditionally in the US that has not been so 387 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 1: much the case in network TV. And when you think 388 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 1: of Friends, the Friends theme to for instances very different. 389 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 1: You know, I'll be there for you, You'll be there 390 00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 1: from so so I think it seems sensible to me 391 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 1: that if they could rewire the Office at all, it 392 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 1: would just be to maybe downplay some of those more 393 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:11,639 Speaker 1: sort of syndical sour British elements and just start up 394 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:16,080 Speaker 1: a bit more of that American can do right optimism, 395 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 1: which I felt they did without I think, losing the 396 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 1: fundamental DNA of what makes the show work right. Mike 397 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:28,159 Speaker 1: Shure specifically talked about Greg mentioning the show in season 398 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:31,320 Speaker 1: two could exist exactly the same as as in the 399 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 1: season one. The episode could be exactly the same, but 400 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:39,679 Speaker 1: just at you know, of just a little bit of hope, 401 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 1: just a little bit of positivity for Michael Scott to 402 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:49,960 Speaker 1: make people at least potentially see some good in him, 403 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:53,200 Speaker 1: whether it's giving him a love interest. You know, you're 404 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:55,920 Speaker 1: finding out he's actually he's actually good at his job 405 00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:58,960 Speaker 1: in a way, you know, like those kinds of things. Well, 406 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:02,120 Speaker 1: I also think what both of the characters have in common, though, 407 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 1: is that behind all of the things which make them 408 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 1: kind of dislikable unlikable, they're not bad people. They're sort 409 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:12,680 Speaker 1: of just a needy people, right, And that's their great 410 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 1: weakness is that they want to be your friend, but 411 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 1: they also want to be your boss. And that's the 412 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 1: thing which I think is what you when you dial 413 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:25,320 Speaker 1: into that. I think what you know, Steve Corral managed 414 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 1: to do and the writers did was kind of bring 415 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:29,920 Speaker 1: that out more, bring out that kind of that he's 416 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:32,920 Speaker 1: a little boy really in a world of adults. And 417 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:35,200 Speaker 1: once you die into that and you see that there 418 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:38,920 Speaker 1: is a kind of lonely sweetness behind it all, then 419 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 1: I think you start to kind of really root for 420 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:43,360 Speaker 1: the character. And I think Steve in particular has such 421 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 1: a likable quality. But the more they could being into 422 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 1: that part of Steve than the more popular, right think 423 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:52,920 Speaker 1: the character became. Well, you you know, you co wrote 424 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 1: the Convict, you directed Customer Survey, and in both of 425 00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:59,639 Speaker 1: those episodes actually that we see a very vulnerable side 426 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,760 Speaker 1: to Michael Scott. And it's interesting that those two episodes 427 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 1: were two that you worked on a lot. That in 428 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:08,920 Speaker 1: the Convict that he's upset that his employees think that 429 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:12,520 Speaker 1: prison is better than his office, and you start to feel, 430 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 1: isn't it ironic that I mean, I know, I don't 431 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 1: want to sort of play you know, partisan politics, but 432 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 1: I mean I think whatever side of the political spectrum 433 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:25,679 Speaker 1: you're on, you'd have to admit that there is a 434 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 1: great deal of that in in the current president of 435 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:33,280 Speaker 1: the United States, and you know, Trump has it's weird 436 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 1: neediness to be loved but also feared and respected, right, 437 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 1: And it's a very weird miss and it never leads 438 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:46,240 Speaker 1: to happiness because there's such a dark well, however much 439 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:49,399 Speaker 1: validation you get, it doesn't matter how many good reviews 440 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 1: you get. There only obsessed about the one bad review. 441 00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 1: And I think that's sort of what Michael Scott and 442 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:58,920 Speaker 1: Donald Trump share. And you know, and I think that's 443 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,000 Speaker 1: the thing which always has made me find him so 444 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:04,840 Speaker 1: funny as a character, because as this never ending well 445 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:09,160 Speaker 1: of neediness, and you just keep you can keep trialing 446 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 1: in the compliments and the praise and the laughter and 447 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:15,639 Speaker 1: it will never be enough. And for whatever reason, I 448 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:20,160 Speaker 1: just find that both adorable and hilarious at the same time. 449 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:25,440 Speaker 1: Less aforable in the case of something but point um well, 450 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,760 Speaker 1: I mean talking about politics, but not talking about politics. 451 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:32,200 Speaker 1: I mean the British Office itself started with the premise 452 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 1: of redundancy, right like, it's something that's a serious issue 453 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:39,240 Speaker 1: for people, I mean, the idea of of not having 454 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:43,080 Speaker 1: a job, and you know, the American Office in the 455 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 1: end examined that as well, but also took on serious 456 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:53,359 Speaker 1: social topics, gay issues, healthcare, race relations, small businesses, going 457 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,679 Speaker 1: under corporate greed. You know, by by the end of 458 00:24:56,680 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 1: our run, looking at the financial crisis was looking at 459 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,880 Speaker 1: real issues. How did you feel like that played out 460 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:07,879 Speaker 1: in the American version. I think our starting point had 461 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:12,040 Speaker 1: always been just being true, making true observations about our 462 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,360 Speaker 1: experience of office life. And we had words and offices, 463 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,920 Speaker 1: so we were trying to kind of be particularly accurate 464 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:22,640 Speaker 1: about that. The way people interacted, the behaviors, the strange 465 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 1: little training exercises you had to do, and the and 466 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:27,840 Speaker 1: the sort of bureaucracy of it, and the fact that 467 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:31,439 Speaker 1: this group of people were just arbitrarily brought together and 468 00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:33,199 Speaker 1: were then forced to sort of get on. And as 469 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 1: we said in that one of our episodes, you know, 470 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 1: you spend more time with those people than you do 471 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:39,399 Speaker 1: your own friends and family, And so that was I 472 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 1: think the jumping off point for us was like, could 473 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:44,120 Speaker 1: we make something that felt very truthful and people recognized 474 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:47,520 Speaker 1: their working life in the show. And I think what 475 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:49,720 Speaker 1: you guys were able to do because of the sheer 476 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:53,240 Speaker 1: run of your show was just broaden that observation out 477 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:57,119 Speaker 1: beyond the sort of parameters of the office into those 478 00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 1: bigger ideas of you know, of relationships and marriage and 479 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:05,400 Speaker 1: career and how the bigger world impacts on the smaller world. 480 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:08,359 Speaker 1: And you know, and obviously they were able to expand 481 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:11,960 Speaker 1: the repertoire of the characters, and so you know, all 482 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,160 Speaker 1: of the characters, including your own, we're sort of able 483 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,440 Speaker 1: to be explored and deepen. So it's just I mean, 484 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:18,680 Speaker 1: one of the things I've always loved about American shows 485 00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 1: is you just have so much more reading space than 486 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:49,639 Speaker 1: air times just really delve into everything. The Office, you know, 487 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 1: as you created, might be the greatest example in television 488 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:59,240 Speaker 1: history of cringe comedy. How would you define cringe comedy. 489 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:04,639 Speaker 1: I think one of my great flaws is I it 490 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,840 Speaker 1: never occurred to me in a way that this this 491 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:11,280 Speaker 1: cringe comedy thing would would be a label. It was 492 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:15,399 Speaker 1: not an intention to make people squirm, it was it 493 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,480 Speaker 1: was just that for us, it was so much funnier 494 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:21,240 Speaker 1: when someone who was trying to be funny, for instance, 495 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:23,920 Speaker 1: said a joke and then you just heard the silence 496 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,040 Speaker 1: and then you just sat in the silence for as 497 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:28,680 Speaker 1: long as possible as that. I don't know why, Ricky 498 00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:32,280 Speaker 1: and I just found that so funny, and like, for instance, 499 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 1: there was a thing we was just to say, there 500 00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:36,320 Speaker 1: was often if you go back to old episodes of 501 00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:38,879 Speaker 1: The Simpsons, you'll see like one of the Simpson's characters 502 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 1: will give a speech in front of the town and 503 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:43,119 Speaker 1: the speech will bomb and it will just cut to 504 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:46,679 Speaker 1: all the townsfolk, and you're just here, huh, and to 505 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 1: what that was so funny and so are our attempt 506 00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:52,720 Speaker 1: After all the kind of David Brent's bad jokes was 507 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,800 Speaker 1: just to sit in that uncomfortable silence, and that just 508 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,560 Speaker 1: made us die with laughter. And it was only when 509 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 1: we started hearing from Paul Oh that made me feel 510 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:03,440 Speaker 1: really uncomfortable or I had to watch it through my 511 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,600 Speaker 1: fingers only then did it occur to us, or maybe 512 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:10,239 Speaker 1: this is not always as enjoyable for people as it 513 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 1: is for us. And I think maybe it was like 514 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 1: I think if you work on a horror movie, because 515 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:17,159 Speaker 1: you know the blood is fat and the knife is 516 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:20,080 Speaker 1: not real, you can just keep adding more violence and 517 00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:22,560 Speaker 1: more bloodshed, right, and you this is great, and then 518 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 1: when you watch it with an audience and it was 519 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 1: just horrible. And I think for us it was a 520 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 1: bit like that, like we just it was so funny 521 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,399 Speaker 1: to us and just keep turning the screw and making 522 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:34,360 Speaker 1: this world uncomfortable that we didn't occur to us that 523 00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:38,640 Speaker 1: people would find it cringe worthy until they started telling 524 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:40,960 Speaker 1: you to. And then of course we just doubled down 525 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 1: and then we're like, oh well, now, well now we're 526 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 1: going to really lay it off. Well, right, like there 527 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,560 Speaker 1: is I mean, just calling a spade a spade, right, 528 00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 1: Like there is a difference between trying to tell a 529 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:55,800 Speaker 1: joke that bombs or the Simpsons speech and you know, 530 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 1: like a joke I can't remember the character, but I 531 00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:00,719 Speaker 1: just heard this recently. It was pull that, but like 532 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:05,720 Speaker 1: a character telling David Brent, she's going on holiday, and 533 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:12,680 Speaker 1: he says, exploring yourself like that is more than just 534 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,640 Speaker 1: that is I guess I guess that. I think it 535 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:19,000 Speaker 1: was just it was just stay true to the character 536 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:22,280 Speaker 1: and this kind of this neediness and this attempt to 537 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 1: be liked in this attempt to make connections, but also 538 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:28,920 Speaker 1: like slightly lascivious or I mean, the big problem for 539 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,600 Speaker 1: him that the Breent character to some degree, Micha Scotts, 540 00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,000 Speaker 1: they just didn't know when to shut up, right, or 541 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 1: they just didn't know what to say. And they were 542 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 1: all but they always had to be talking. You know, 543 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,080 Speaker 1: sometimes silence is golden, but not for them. They just 544 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 1: have to speak. And they think they are great jokes 545 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:48,240 Speaker 1: tell as. They think they're great in conversation. They think 546 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:50,640 Speaker 1: they have great personalities. They want to show off for 547 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,040 Speaker 1: the cameras that are filming them, and so they never 548 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 1: shut up. And it's one of the great disparities between 549 00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,600 Speaker 1: people who are like that. They just don't realize how 550 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:02,840 Speaker 1: they're coming across to the world. Right. So, again to 551 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,800 Speaker 1: go back to Trump, Trump thinks he's killing it. Every 552 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 1: time he opens his mouth. He thinks he's crushing it. 553 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:10,720 Speaker 1: He never goes back and thinks, oh man, some of 554 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:13,240 Speaker 1: what I said there was really garbled and double the fouty, 555 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:15,280 Speaker 1: and that didn't make much sense. He's not thinking that, 556 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:17,400 Speaker 1: he's thinking, why didn't they love that? That was a 557 00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:20,120 Speaker 1: great speech? What's wrong with that? And that's the weird 558 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,600 Speaker 1: gap between those people is that they can't see themselves 559 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 1: as the rest of the world season So to me, 560 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 1: it makes perfect sense that those people would would say 561 00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,800 Speaker 1: those things. And yes, it is uncomfortable, I guess because 562 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:35,080 Speaker 1: those people are on I mean, I don't know. Maybe 563 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:37,360 Speaker 1: it's that in real life we just sort of tolerate them, 564 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,080 Speaker 1: or we walk away or we ignore them, and and 565 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,240 Speaker 1: in the TV world, we just force you to sit 566 00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:46,480 Speaker 1: and watch this person, right right, I mean it goes 567 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:50,680 Speaker 1: to the idea that they just that both characters are 568 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:55,479 Speaker 1: truly just misguided in their approach, and certainly, you know, 569 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 1: Michael Scott is played by Steve krell Is. It was 570 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,800 Speaker 1: one of my favorite I've told people, one of my 571 00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:04,040 Speaker 1: favorite jokes that we ever did on the Office was 572 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:08,840 Speaker 1: Michael Scott really trying to have a bonding moment with 573 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:13,440 Speaker 1: Oscar and really wanting to understand, you know, his way 574 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:17,880 Speaker 1: of life and and asking him what term would be 575 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:22,200 Speaker 1: less offensive than Mexican than calling him Mexican, and Oscar 576 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 1: saying there's nothing offensive about Mexican. He's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, sure, 577 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:29,400 Speaker 1: but like, what's something less offensive than to call you Mexican? 578 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:32,560 Speaker 1: And to me, that is like like he truly just 579 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:36,480 Speaker 1: doesn't understand. He's not trying to be he's trying to 580 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:39,600 Speaker 1: be woke, right or PC, and he just doesn't get it. 581 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,640 Speaker 1: But that moment of cringe is like, oh, but I think, 582 00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:48,520 Speaker 1: you know, in some ways predated this conversation that everyone 583 00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:51,920 Speaker 1: has now about sort of local culture and appropriational these 584 00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 1: other things. And at the time, certainly when we began 585 00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:57,520 Speaker 1: average and it was the beginning of sort of political 586 00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:00,800 Speaker 1: correctness in the workplace and political it's being a very 587 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:05,000 Speaker 1: big buzzword and people there were certain terms that supposedly 588 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,400 Speaker 1: you weren't like to use anymore, and the you know, 589 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:09,680 Speaker 1: in schools you couldn't refer to the blackboards, you have 590 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:11,920 Speaker 1: to refer to the chalkboard, and you know, and then 591 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 1: all these different rules that manhole cover had couldn't be 592 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:16,640 Speaker 1: called they had to be called maintenance cover, and and 593 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:19,680 Speaker 1: there was a lot of sort of reaction for that, 594 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 1: and people saying, well, you're you're policing us, and you're 595 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:24,520 Speaker 1: policing the way we speak. And so there were a 596 00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:28,320 Speaker 1: lot of people trying to be woke before they that 597 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,400 Speaker 1: term was existing and just not understanding and failing. And 598 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:35,000 Speaker 1: the reason they failed was because you shouldn't have to try. 599 00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,200 Speaker 1: You should just hold someone like a person, and you 600 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,800 Speaker 1: shouldn't see their color or their sexuality or anything else. 601 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:42,600 Speaker 1: And that was the problem. That was why they were 602 00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,239 Speaker 1: hung up. Is they couldn't They couldn't see them as 603 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:48,800 Speaker 1: anything other than a gay person, a Mexican person, you know, 604 00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:51,560 Speaker 1: personal cold or whatever. They couldn't see beyond that that 605 00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:53,480 Speaker 1: was and so they their heart may have been in 606 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:55,880 Speaker 1: the right place, but they were they were still treating 607 00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 1: people as other right, and as long as you do that, 608 00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:03,760 Speaker 1: you do Yes. I heard something recently that I did 609 00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:08,080 Speaker 1: not know that before Greg decided to oversee and come 610 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:11,440 Speaker 1: back for the last season, he asked you to show run. 611 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:16,240 Speaker 1: Is that true? I remember, Yes, I remember him talking 612 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:20,040 Speaker 1: to me about the idea of being involved with those 613 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:22,520 Speaker 1: latest seasons or that last season. Yes, and I and 614 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:24,320 Speaker 1: I was very flattered and that would have it would 615 00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:26,280 Speaker 1: have been enormous fun. I think for me it was 616 00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:29,560 Speaker 1: probably like it would have been going back to the 617 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:32,640 Speaker 1: well of something. You know, perhaps you know too late, 618 00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:35,360 Speaker 1: or I moved on in my head, or for whatever reason. 619 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:37,840 Speaker 1: I think I just felt like it would it would 620 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:40,200 Speaker 1: just be weird, or I just wouldn't I didn't feel 621 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 1: like it would be the right move for me, But 622 00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:45,520 Speaker 1: my body would have been a blast. Yeah, I mean 623 00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,200 Speaker 1: directing that episode of Customer Survey was one of the 624 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,600 Speaker 1: most fun I've had in in all of my career. 625 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:52,800 Speaker 1: I mean I was only really around for a handful 626 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:55,320 Speaker 1: of weeks, but just being in the writer's room for 627 00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:57,360 Speaker 1: the first couple of weeks and then on the splore 628 00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:00,000 Speaker 1: with you guys, I mean it was just so much fun. 629 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:02,400 Speaker 1: I mean it really was. But in a weird way. 630 00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:04,920 Speaker 1: I didn't have the kind of responsibility that you'd have 631 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:07,040 Speaker 1: if you were show running, you know, I could kind 632 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:09,480 Speaker 1: of dip in and and just be part of the 633 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:12,759 Speaker 1: fun without as much of the responsibility. How is the 634 00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:15,840 Speaker 1: writer's room different than like, say, the writer's room in 635 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:19,440 Speaker 1: the UK, or or how was that experience different? Well, 636 00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:23,360 Speaker 1: of course, in the UK traditionally, you know, British comedies 637 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:25,680 Speaker 1: are normally written by one or two people. There's very 638 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,280 Speaker 1: rarely a big writer's room. We don't do as many episodes, 639 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:30,600 Speaker 1: so there isn't the need. So the British version of 640 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:32,640 Speaker 1: the Office was just me and Ricky sitting in a 641 00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:35,440 Speaker 1: room for six months, you know, hammering out the episodes, 642 00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:37,799 Speaker 1: whereas you know, coming to the US, it was Graham 643 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:41,160 Speaker 1: and You've got twelve or fifteen brilliant minds, all throwing 644 00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:44,560 Speaker 1: ideas around, these jokes, sort of pinging around. And I mean, 645 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:46,920 Speaker 1: to me, as a sort of fan of comedy and 646 00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:49,520 Speaker 1: student of comedy, particular American comedy, just being in that 647 00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:52,200 Speaker 1: environment and seeing a different way of working and it 648 00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:54,240 Speaker 1: was such a thrill to me. In fact, I remember 649 00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:58,359 Speaker 1: I was sharing some stories from my own experience when 650 00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:01,040 Speaker 1: I first started working, and I it thought about how 651 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:03,800 Speaker 1: I worked at a call center and I've done training 652 00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:06,799 Speaker 1: and the guy who was doing the training assigned us. 653 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:08,480 Speaker 1: He would send us into one room and we'd have 654 00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:11,040 Speaker 1: to make tend to be a customer, and we would 655 00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:13,160 Speaker 1: call one of the other trainees he was another room, 656 00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:14,759 Speaker 1: and they would be the person at the call center, 657 00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:16,799 Speaker 1: and we, as the fake customers, would have to try 658 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:19,439 Speaker 1: and sort of practice with them on how they could 659 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:21,840 Speaker 1: answer a call, and I remember that the guy wouldn't 660 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:23,799 Speaker 1: let me do it anymore because I was I was 661 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:26,480 Speaker 1: too nasty a customer, because I really just I just 662 00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,480 Speaker 1: kept on improvising as just the worst person to have, 663 00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:32,160 Speaker 1: because I figured, if I'm gonna do customer training, I 664 00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:35,680 Speaker 1: better deal with the assholes, right, I'm gonna need that information. 665 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,120 Speaker 1: And so I remembered selling that in the writer's room, 666 00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:41,279 Speaker 1: and Lee and Jean, who the writers, went off and 667 00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:43,880 Speaker 1: wrote a version of that and gave it to Jim 668 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:45,960 Speaker 1: and to Dwight and Michael and they put that in 669 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:48,480 Speaker 1: the show. And so that was that. I remember that 670 00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:50,560 Speaker 1: being a real highlight of sort of this weird old 671 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:55,279 Speaker 1: fragment of my life suddenly being transposed onto TV. Did 672 00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:58,400 Speaker 1: you like the way that the American Office ended, that 673 00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,200 Speaker 1: the story ended, I thought I thought it was wonderful. 674 00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:03,279 Speaker 1: I thought it was lovely. Yeah, I thought it was 675 00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:07,720 Speaker 1: really satisfying. And you know, no one was machine gunned down, 676 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:12,480 Speaker 1: There was nothing, nothing so stressing. I also thought that, 677 00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:14,920 Speaker 1: you know, when when Michael Scott left, I thought that 678 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:16,640 Speaker 1: was a beautiful episode as well. I thought there was 679 00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:21,400 Speaker 1: some really fine episodes you know, when when characters were 680 00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:24,120 Speaker 1: leaving or when the show was really playing on the emotions. 681 00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:25,920 Speaker 1: And I think again, that's one of the things I 682 00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:30,399 Speaker 1: loved about American shows was that at their best, they're 683 00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:33,040 Speaker 1: like soap operas with laughs. And I don't mean soap 684 00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:36,200 Speaker 1: opera disparagingly. I mean in the sense that you are 685 00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:39,319 Speaker 1: so invested in these characters in this world, and you 686 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:41,520 Speaker 1: keep coming back, and you care about them, and you 687 00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:43,560 Speaker 1: love them, and you want the best for them, and 688 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,640 Speaker 1: you have opinions about them, and and that was what 689 00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:50,120 Speaker 1: you know, those nine seasons did so sweetly and so successfully, 690 00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:52,920 Speaker 1: I think. And so by the time the show leaves 691 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:55,960 Speaker 1: the air, it's like these friends of yours have all 692 00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:59,360 Speaker 1: moved away. I mean, it's sort of it's sad. What 693 00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:03,960 Speaker 1: are your most out of in terms of its legacy? Honestly, 694 00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:06,520 Speaker 1: you can't begin to understand. When I was growing up 695 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:12,040 Speaker 1: America and American TV was so remote to me, so distant, 696 00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:14,880 Speaker 1: it was something I I adored. I mean, I watched 697 00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:18,120 Speaker 1: shows that I loved, American shows I love religiously and 698 00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:21,600 Speaker 1: particklar sitcoms like the ones I've mentioned Mash and Roseanne 699 00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:24,200 Speaker 1: and Frazier and Cheers and Friends. I mean I never 700 00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:26,120 Speaker 1: missed an episode, you know. I was there when the 701 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:28,479 Speaker 1: new ones started airing in the UK. I remember watching 702 00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:30,439 Speaker 1: the first episode of Friends that the evening it aired 703 00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:31,960 Speaker 1: in the UK. I was with it from the beginning. 704 00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:34,400 Speaker 1: I watched every episode I was in, you know. And 705 00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:38,240 Speaker 1: so to me who have been involved with the show, 706 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:42,920 Speaker 1: which which is that for American audiences and for worldwide 707 00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:44,840 Speaker 1: audiences and is and it's taken to their heart in 708 00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,000 Speaker 1: the same way that I took shows like that to mine. 709 00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:49,840 Speaker 1: That's the biggest thrill for me. It's to be part 710 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:53,799 Speaker 1: of that family of American TV comedy, you know, and 711 00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:57,640 Speaker 1: put in the lineage of those other shows. Is such 712 00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:01,400 Speaker 1: an overwhelming thrill for me. That's awesome. One last question, 713 00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:05,279 Speaker 1: very final thing that's said in the American version of 714 00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:09,080 Speaker 1: the Office is the talking head by Pam. To paraphrase, 715 00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:13,000 Speaker 1: she basically says that she thought it was weird when 716 00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:16,080 Speaker 1: somebody came and wanted to do a documentary on these 717 00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:19,520 Speaker 1: people who worked in a paper company. But she says, 718 00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:21,760 Speaker 1: in the end, I think it was a good idea 719 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:25,919 Speaker 1: because there's beauty in ordinary things, and isn't that kind 720 00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:28,680 Speaker 1: of the point And I think that. You know, Greg 721 00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:32,360 Speaker 1: Daniels wrote that and to him that was the point. 722 00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:36,799 Speaker 1: Do you have an idea of what was the point? Well, 723 00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:40,680 Speaker 1: I I think you know, like with any good any 724 00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:43,479 Speaker 1: good arts if you can call TV signals are any 725 00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:46,560 Speaker 1: good comedy and any kind of art, it's about making 726 00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:51,120 Speaker 1: us feel connected as people and and reminding us of 727 00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:54,000 Speaker 1: the things which connects us and the and the similarities 728 00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:57,960 Speaker 1: we have. And that's that's the great joy. That's the 729 00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:00,360 Speaker 1: pleasure it brings that the connectivity that it eyes, and 730 00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:02,719 Speaker 1: that's why people love to laugh in a group in 731 00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:04,319 Speaker 1: a comedy club or in a movie theater because they 732 00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:07,880 Speaker 1: want they the shared experience of laughter is unifying. So 733 00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:12,480 Speaker 1: to me, that's what the show does is people they 734 00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:15,400 Speaker 1: relate to the characters, or they see a version of 735 00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:17,480 Speaker 1: themselves or a version of the person they could have been, 736 00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:19,120 Speaker 1: or they say, that's just like my brother and all, 737 00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:21,560 Speaker 1: that's just like the guy I work with. That stuff 738 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:25,320 Speaker 1: makes you feel like there's other people that think like you, 739 00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:27,799 Speaker 1: you know, and they're living the world and experiencing the 740 00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:29,920 Speaker 1: world like you, and it makes you feel less alone. 741 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:33,640 Speaker 1: And that's that's why I'm a fan of stuff. And 742 00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:35,560 Speaker 1: I think hopefully that's why people are a fan of 743 00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:39,800 Speaker 1: this show. Steven, thank you so much for taking the 744 00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:44,640 Speaker 1: time to talk to me for real. I really appreciate it. Yeah, 745 00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:47,680 Speaker 1: I hope you stay safe over there and stay home, 746 00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:50,480 Speaker 1: and I don't know, sometimes soon we'll go to another 747 00:39:50,480 --> 00:40:06,080 Speaker 1: Clippers game. Would be great. That's all for this week, everybody. 748 00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:09,040 Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did. 749 00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:11,520 Speaker 1: I mean, is it just me or do British people 750 00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:17,839 Speaker 1: sound way smarter than other people? I feel smarter after 751 00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:21,320 Speaker 1: hearing that conversation. Anyhow, Thank you so much to Stephen 752 00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:24,040 Speaker 1: for joining me. I truly appreciate it. And to the 753 00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:26,960 Speaker 1: rest of you, Tune in next week to hear my 754 00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:31,600 Speaker 1: conversation with the other half of this dynamic duo, this 755 00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:37,759 Speaker 1: comedic genius duo, Ricky Gervais. You won't want to miss that. 756 00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:41,640 Speaker 1: And if you're liking this podcast, well don't forget to 757 00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:46,880 Speaker 1: subscribe or follow in whatever podcast app you were using. 758 00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:49,600 Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe even leave us a review, rate 759 00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:54,280 Speaker 1: us highlight if you're feeling inspired. But until next time, everybody, 760 00:40:54,280 --> 00:41:05,520 Speaker 1: please have a great week. The Office. Deep Dive is 761 00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:09,920 Speaker 1: hosted and executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our 762 00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:14,200 Speaker 1: executive producer Lang Lee. Our senior producer is Tessa Kramer, 763 00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:18,040 Speaker 1: our producer is Emily Carr, and our assistant editor is 764 00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:22,040 Speaker 1: Diego Tapia. My main man in the booth is Alec Moore. 765 00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:26,000 Speaker 1: Our theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed by my great 766 00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:29,240 Speaker 1: friend Creed Bratton, and the episode was mixed by seth 767 00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:44,480 Speaker 1: Olansky