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Speaker 1: It's time to get inside the Giants huts Giants Dot

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Speaker 1: Come my Giants, give me some job.

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Speaker 2: Part of the Giants Podcast Networks.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to another edition of the Giants Little Podcast, brought

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Speaker 3: to you by Citizens the official bank of the New

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Speaker 3: York Football Giants.

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Speaker 2: I am John Schmelk. Earlier in the week we had Brandon's.

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Speaker 3: Cohort over a Bleacher Report Derek Classing doing the skill

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Speaker 3: positions on offense. Now we have Brandon, author of the

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Speaker 3: Trench Warfare newsletters you can see from his background, also

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Speaker 3: one of the scouts over a Bleacher Report, who is

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Speaker 3: our offensive line guru. Brandon, Thanks again for joining us

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Speaker 3: like you do every year. I hope you are well.

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Speaker 2: Tell the folks where they can find all your stuff.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks for having me so. Yeah, you can find

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Speaker 1: me Trench Warfare dot substack dot com. You can subscribe

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Speaker 1: there to all I do with my newsletter. Have my

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Speaker 1: guys coming out here soon in the in the offensive

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Speaker 1: line class and a bunch of other stuff kind of

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Speaker 1: in the works as well. So that's really the main spot,

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Speaker 1: and then all social media channels. Brandon Thorne NFL.

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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, make sure you guys go check it out

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Speaker 3: if you want offensive line information. This is the guy

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Speaker 3: that go to He studies at the NFL level, the

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Speaker 3: college level, you name it. He's our go to source

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Speaker 3: for offensive line breakdowns, and that's what we're gonna do

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Speaker 3: with him today, Britton. Let's start, though, with the overall

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Speaker 3: classification of the class. We know there's gonna be a

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Speaker 3: ton of first round guys, but based on the most

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Speaker 3: recent Bleacher Report rankings that are up there we're recording

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Speaker 3: this on Friday, thirteen of the first thirty nine players

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Speaker 3: on that bleacher Report big board are offensive lineman A third.

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Speaker 2: That is a ridiculous amount.

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Speaker 3: So clearly you agree with the general consensus here that

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Speaker 3: this is a pretty damn good top of the draft

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Speaker 3: first round offensive line group.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, it's a really good class. And you know,

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Speaker 1: I think I have maybe six or so like true

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Speaker 1: first round grades, and then you know several maybe another

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Speaker 1: five six like early second round grades, so you know,

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Speaker 1: just for additional context there, I don't have thirteen first

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Speaker 1: round grades, but but yeah, I mean, I definitely can

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Speaker 1: see the NFL valuing a lot of these guys, you know,

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Speaker 1: very highly, even higher than me. And in some of

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Speaker 1: these cases, so I think all all around, you know,

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Speaker 1: no matter who you kind of talk to, it's just

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Speaker 1: it's really good offensive line class, and I think that's

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Speaker 1: that's valid. And I think all the positions as well,

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Speaker 1: especially if you're projecting some of these tackles inside, and

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Speaker 1: then the guard class is really good as well. So

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Speaker 1: it's like there's there's there's immediate starters at kind of

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Speaker 1: all the positions, and then there's there's really good depth

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Speaker 1: that you know pretty much all the interior spots. There's

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Speaker 1: never really any depth that tackle and I, you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't know that there is in this class either.

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Speaker 1: Maybe you know one or two guys you can get,

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Speaker 1: like you know, in round three maybe, but after that, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's you know, tackle drops off as usual.

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Speaker 3: All right, So let's talk a little about a couple

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Speaker 3: of those guys that you think might be able to

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Speaker 3: bounce in. In you the rankings I'm looking at, you

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Speaker 3: have both Tea and Troy fa Tani listed as into

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Speaker 3: your offensive lineman, not tackles. Is that just you think

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Speaker 3: that's where they would play best, or do you think

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Speaker 3: because of their inability to stay outside they'll have to

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Speaker 3: be moved inside the guard more so?

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Speaker 1: The formers just I think they'll be best there and

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Speaker 1: then a little bit of the ladder With Fuaga. I

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Speaker 1: posted a thing on Twitter a few weeks ago, ten

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Speaker 1: clips of him losing the same way outside outside hand,

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Speaker 1: not having quite enough range or you know, set points,

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Speaker 1: being a little short and just getting beat around the corner,

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Speaker 1: primarily with the cross chop. It happened probably a dozen

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Speaker 1: times last year, you know, maybe a little bit more.

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Speaker 1: I put ten of them up there, but but yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's kind of a typical thing that college tackles. You know,

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Speaker 1: if they struggle in that area and then you know

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Speaker 1: have the pre records at size, play strength, you know,

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Speaker 1: and run blocking skills, typically those guys are good candidates

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Speaker 1: to move into, which I think for Waga is a

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Speaker 1: great candidate to move inside. He could play tackle, I

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Speaker 1: think in the right system, RPO, play action heavy, you know,

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Speaker 1: limited true dropback situations, that sort of thing, you know,

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Speaker 1: San Francisco places like that. Yeah, he could, he could

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Speaker 1: play right tackle, but I think in the most schemes,

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Speaker 1: the most systems, he would probably be best long term

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Speaker 1: at guard.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 1: I compared him to like a really like a supercharged

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Speaker 1: y tie, you know, coming out of TCU he's just

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Speaker 1: way more athletic than he was, but he's kind of

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Speaker 1: similarly built in wins in similar ways as a run

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Speaker 1: blocker or high end comp Mike you Potty, you know,

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Speaker 1: I see a guy like that and then a fatanu.

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Speaker 1: He's been my top guard since November December, So yeah,

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Speaker 1: he was just one of those. He's one of those

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Speaker 1: six I mentioned that are like true first round grades.

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Speaker 1: For me, I think he's, you know, in my top four.

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Speaker 1: I think he's one of the four best offensive linemen

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Speaker 1: in this class, no matter where you want to project him.

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Speaker 1: So I'm just a little bit higher on him, you know,

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Speaker 1: than Flogga.

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Speaker 2: You know, Brandon, I gotta be honest with you.

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Speaker 3: I thought I was going crazy because I've said the

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Speaker 3: same thing about Fuaga for a couple of months.

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Speaker 2: Now, we'll God turned me onto it.

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Speaker 3: Me and you actually hung out for a little bit

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Speaker 3: the Senior Bowl and I saw him three straight plays

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Speaker 3: at Lisa Isaac during the team portion. This is what

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Speaker 3: I want to was with a team portion, three straight

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Speaker 3: times he beat them with a quick speed rush outside

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Speaker 3: and it made me think, all right, well you get

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Speaker 3: him once, that's fine, but three straight times. So I

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Speaker 3: went back and I watched, and I thought maybe I

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Speaker 3: was being a little bit biased because I've seen Evan

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Speaker 3: Neil struggle getting with in depth on his kick and

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Speaker 3: I'm like, well, maybe I'm seeing something that's not there.

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Speaker 3: But I really do think that against really pure speed

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Speaker 3: guys at the NFL, he's gonna have trouble getting out

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Speaker 3: there and matching their speed if they really rush.

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Speaker 2: Why out of that nine technique.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, particularly with you know, not a lot of help either,

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Speaker 1: which credit to the NFL and a lot of these

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Speaker 1: systems they're providing a lot of help to tackles. So

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Speaker 1: you know, with that said, I think, you know, you

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Speaker 1: can a pretty strong case that he should stay outside.

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Speaker 1: I just think it's kind of a no brainer in

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Speaker 1: terms of getting the most out of him, getting the

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Speaker 1: best version of him long term would probably be a guard.

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Speaker 1: So that's where I kind of lean projecting him. But

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Speaker 1: you know, with the note that, yeah, he could possibly

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Speaker 1: play tackle too, but yeah, some of those situations, you know,

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Speaker 1: real high leverage situations where you're facing a really good

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Speaker 1: pass rusher and you don't you aren't provided a lot

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Speaker 1: of help for whatever reason, maybe the other side needs

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Speaker 1: it or whatever or it's just such an obvious pass

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Speaker 1: situation that it's tough those nuanced situations. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: he probably would struggle. And then some of the less

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Speaker 1: nuanced ones too. I mean it's on the senior Boll

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Speaker 1: tape like you mentioned, and then it's on his film

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Speaker 1: too in college. So it's it's really not like a

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Speaker 1: big secret. I don't know that it's been talked about quite,

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Speaker 1: you know enough, but yeah, it's it's there, I think.

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Speaker 1: But he might be the best run blocker in the class,

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Speaker 1: so you know, he's a really good player. Yeah, So

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Speaker 1: it's that's kind of how I feel about him.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I wasn't trying to kill the player. I think

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Speaker 3: he's a good player too. I just I think you're right.

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Speaker 3: I just don't think enough people have mentioned that, when

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Speaker 3: on the other hand, people have gone out of their

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Speaker 3: way to kill Olu for shan Who for a couple

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Speaker 3: of bad snaps against Ohio State, against the guy that's

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Speaker 3: going to be a first round pass rusher, one of

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Speaker 3: which he gets beat because he thinks a twist is

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Speaker 3: coming and it's not. And I was thrilled to see

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Speaker 3: you still look fashion who as your number two tackle

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Speaker 3: and not just your number two tackle. But greats touching

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Speaker 3: with Joe All, do you still view those two guys

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Speaker 3: as two players that would be first round or not

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Speaker 3: even first round, top ten offensive tackles in pretty much

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Speaker 3: any draft class.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I made a slight alteration for a final big

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Speaker 1: board there, just to get a little bit more separation

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Speaker 1: there with Alton him. But I mean, I do think

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Speaker 1: for Seawan is definitely the second best tackle.

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Speaker 4: In the class.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, you know how State table you you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of summarize that well, a few bad reps. That

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Speaker 1: was the worst game of his career in two years.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, that one got a lot of spotlight on it.

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Speaker 1: But if you balance it, you know, with all the

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Speaker 1: other games, and I've watched pretty much every game with him,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's kind of easy for me to just

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Speaker 1: look at that for what it is. And you know,

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Speaker 1: you see some of those ways that he lost, particularly

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Speaker 1: with his anchor in other films, but it's it's not

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Speaker 1: as pronounced as that one. And you know, another thing

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Speaker 1: is he followed that up the rest of the year

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Speaker 1: with maybe the best football of his whole career to

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Speaker 1: kind of close out his time at Penn State, which

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Speaker 1: was nice. To see specifically as a run blocker. I

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Speaker 1: thought he really turned the page after that game in

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Speaker 1: a lot of ways in terms of sustaining and finishing blocks,

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Speaker 1: which was my biggest question with him, which is still

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Speaker 1: a little bit of a question, but he did at

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Speaker 1: least show a level of staying and finish that I

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Speaker 1: hadn't really seen prior to that, at least consistently, So

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Speaker 1: that was another part of it. But the thing about

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Speaker 1: Fashanu that you know, I think, you know, is really

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Speaker 1: hard to get out of my mind is you know,

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Speaker 1: when you first watch him last year as a nineteen

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Speaker 1: year old, you know just the how natural he is

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Speaker 1: in past protection in terms of movements, set points, hand usage,

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Speaker 1: timing it, sinking it, and it just it's just pretty

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Speaker 1: special stuff. And I think that that's kind of carried

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Speaker 1: through the rest of his career for the most part.

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Speaker 1: You know, again, not perfect, but you know, you know

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Speaker 1: every player, you know, you could kind of point to

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Speaker 1: some errors here and there. So I just think just

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Speaker 1: how natural it is for him. And then having the

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Speaker 1: traits that he does, chances are he's going to be

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Speaker 1: a good pass protector and a solid run blocker, and

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Speaker 1: that's that's kind of how I see him and if

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Speaker 1: you see that, you know as a tackle, Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean top ten, top fifteen kind of grade.

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Speaker 3: For me as someone that evaluates these guys, and then

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Speaker 3: I'll kind of zero in on some of the more

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Speaker 3: giant needs. This is the question I've been trying to

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Speaker 3: figure out my own head fashion. Who looks so good

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Speaker 3: as a pass protector, so fluid feet or great yet

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Speaker 3: in the run game and again, I gotta go back

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Speaker 3: on my notes and check if it got better at

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Speaker 3: the end of the year. But I did feel like

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Speaker 3: he was on the ground a lot like he would

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Speaker 3: fall and I wasn't sure if he.

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Speaker 2: Was over extending too much.

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Speaker 3: How do you reconcile such gracefulness and as a pass protector?

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Speaker 3: But then in the run game, I felt like he

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Speaker 3: was on the ground a little bit too much, falling forwards.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, And that's that was the biggest concern for me,

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Speaker 1: you know. So I think it's kind of a case

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Speaker 1: by case basis, but I think if you want to

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Speaker 1: kind of find a through line, you know, throughout his film,

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Speaker 1: a lot of it I think is footwork based and

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Speaker 1: aiming points and landmarks on in terms of fitting on

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Speaker 1: you know, the initial first phase of the block and

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Speaker 1: and not that part of it not always being clean,

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Speaker 1: and that just kind of puts them in a compromising

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Speaker 1: position from the jump that happens quite a bit. So

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Speaker 1: he doesn't really align targets very well. And I think

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Speaker 1: that starts from the ground, so, you know, he's just

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Speaker 1: kind of an unrefined run blocker in terms of footwork specifically,

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Speaker 1: and then, you know, I think that's really what hurts him,

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Speaker 1: you know. And if you can't get the first phase

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Speaker 1: of the run block right, the second and third phases,

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Speaker 1: you know, chances are they're not going to be there.

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Speaker 1: So I think he just needs work, you know, there,

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Speaker 1: and I think that that can develop, especially considering he's

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Speaker 1: relatively inexperienced, very young. Those are sorts of things that

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Speaker 1: could be developed. But I don't know that he's you know,

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Speaker 1: that powerful of a guy, you know, and his play

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Speaker 1: strength I would say, is you know good, you know,

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Speaker 1: at best. So I don't know that I see like

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Speaker 1: a very good or elite run blocker here, you know. Ever,

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Speaker 1: I just don't, But I do think he could be

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Speaker 1: function all to you know, above average. So I think

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Speaker 1: that's what you're hoping for and I think if he

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Speaker 1: gets some things cleaned up with his footwork, I think

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Speaker 1: he can get there. You know, I look at him

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Speaker 1: in some kind of a similar mold as you know.

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Speaker 1: My comparison, you know, from last year is a breaker

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Speaker 1: Show Ferguson and I just stuck with that. I think

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Speaker 1: that's the high end comp for him. You know, maybe

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Speaker 1: like a Ryan Clady, you know, that kind of guy

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Speaker 1: who are more I don't want to say finesse, but

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Speaker 1: kind of. You know, there are guys who traditionally fit

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Speaker 1: more in sort of a zone type of run scheme

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Speaker 1: that you know, would really excel in pass protection and

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Speaker 1: that's their calling card. Those two guys, you know, being

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Speaker 1: like kind of the best examples of that. But you

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Speaker 1: know that that's kind of how I see, you know,

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Speaker 1: probably the most likely outcome for him is one of

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Speaker 1: those two kind of guys, maybe somewhere in the middle.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, so we'll see, but I'm pretty I'm pretty

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Speaker 1: bullish on him.

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Speaker 5: You love turf, You're good at it, So you start

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Speaker 5: a turf Fizz business grows, your savings grow, become the

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Speaker 5: most celebrated name in turf. Are you ready for all

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Speaker 5: that life brings?

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Speaker 3: Johns Tottle podcast is brought to you by Citizens, the

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Speaker 3: official bank of the Giants from game data. Every day,

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Speaker 3: Citizens is made ready for Giant fans with insights, guidance

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Speaker 3: and solutions. Learn more at citizens bank dot com. We're

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Speaker 3: joined by Brandon Thorn from Trench Warfare. Brandon want to

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Speaker 3: touch on Joe Alt here. But if the Giants don't

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Speaker 3: go quarterback or receiver at six, I think the only

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Speaker 3: the guy that really makes sense for them would be

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Speaker 3: Joe Alt. Now here's the trick. They got Andrew Thomas

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Speaker 3: at left tackle. They moving them. How would you feel

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Speaker 3: if the Giants chose Alt at six but then had

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Speaker 3: to move him over to right tackle. Do you think

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Speaker 3: that should be something that should stop.

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Speaker 2: Them from making that selection. I know he was used

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Speaker 2: in an unbalanced line of Notre Dame.

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Speaker 3: I saw it on tape a lot coma kinda as

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Speaker 3: that extra tight end on the right side next to

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Speaker 3: their right tackle. How do you view him if he

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Speaker 3: does have to get moved to the right side in

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Speaker 3: his first year in the pros?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean pretty much like most of these guys.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if you move him, this is a very

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Speaker 1: young class at the top and you know, I don't

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Speaker 1: see a problem with moving him. You know, there's there's

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Speaker 1: nothing on film or that I've heard that would suggest

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Speaker 1: a move, especially if you, you know, let him know

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Speaker 1: right away and he has the entire spring and summer

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Speaker 1: to do it. Yeah, I would probably have no concern

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Speaker 1: with that at all.

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Speaker 2: Good, simple answer.

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Speaker 3: All Right, So I'm going to assume for a second

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Speaker 3: that those thirteen guys that you have in the top

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Speaker 3: thirty nine for Beliza Report probably are not going to

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Speaker 3: get to the giants at forty seven. Maybe Jordan Morgan,

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Speaker 3: and that's the guy we haven't talked about a Tom Brandon,

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Speaker 3: and I think he's an interesting guy who play tackle

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Speaker 3: at a pretty high level in college. But you do

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Speaker 3: see his length, his lack of arm length get him

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Speaker 3: in trouble a little bit.

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Speaker 2: You have been projected as a guard.

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Speaker 3: Do you think he's strong enough to step in and

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Speaker 3: play garden right away or is that something he's going

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Speaker 3: to have to develop a little bit more before if

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Speaker 3: becomes a high level guard at the edif A level, Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I don't I don't know that.

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Speaker 1: I I guess it depends on what you say by

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Speaker 1: high level, Like all pro you know, I don't see that.

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Speaker 1: That's that's high level to me. I mean a functional guard,

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Speaker 1: you know, I would say, is in the cards there.

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Speaker 4: You know for him.

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Speaker 1: He he compares really favorably to me to Matthew Bergeron

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Speaker 1: and that was my comp for him coming out of Syracuse.

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Speaker 1: So very similar sorts of players. I would say, I

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Speaker 1: don't really have any questions about Jordan Morgan's play strength,

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Speaker 1: you know, at all.

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Speaker 4: So I didn't see that.

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Speaker 1: I thought the reason why he lost for the most

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Speaker 1: part in past protection was technique based and and maybe

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Speaker 1: athletic based, you know, just but probably more so technique footwork.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 1: He had a really bad habit that was prevalent throughout

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Speaker 1: his film of Dealing with again you know why nine

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Speaker 1: sort of pass rushers that threaten him with speed. Rather

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Speaker 1: than get to his spot stay square with good weight distribution,

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Speaker 1: he would oftentimes lean open up prematurely and then therefore

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Speaker 1: create a soft inside shoulder and be very vulnerable to

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Speaker 1: losing across his face against inside power moves. And the

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Speaker 1: USC tape from what I remember, Brayln Trice you know,

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Speaker 1: tore him apart, you know, and and it happened several

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Speaker 1: other games as well, I think against even lesser opponents.

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Speaker 4: So you know, everyone points to the law to game

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Speaker 4: and it was fine.

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Speaker 1: You know, he faced him six or seven times and

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Speaker 1: you know, had two three good reps against him, which

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Speaker 1: was you know, a good tape for him. But I

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Speaker 1: just think when you balance everything else that was on film,

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Speaker 1: to me, he was a pretty easy candidate to move inside. Now,

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Speaker 1: I think there is maybe an outside shot of maybe

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Speaker 1: like a Dion Dawkins sort of guy at left tackle,

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Speaker 1: but you know, I think more than likely you're getting

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Speaker 1: like a Matthew berger On kind of bro, you know,

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Speaker 1: who could be a you know, a solid guard and

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Speaker 1: I think you would fit really well. And like a wide,

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Speaker 1: tight zone sort of scheme, play action based, you know,

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Speaker 1: I think that would be ideal for him, which you

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Speaker 1: know there's a lot of teams have run that sort

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Speaker 1: of scheme.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Giants

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Speaker 3: big at forty seven and seventy year brand, and you

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Speaker 3: have a bunch of interior offensive linemen that could fit

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Speaker 3: there if the Giants want to try to show up

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Speaker 3: their guard spot, guys like Dominic Pooney, who's a conversion

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Speaker 3: in from tackle, go through some of those interior offensive

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Speaker 3: linemen that you like, you know, mid late second round,

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Speaker 3: early third round that could fit the Giants need as

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Speaker 3: someone that can either come in and start a guard

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Speaker 3: right away or maybe more importantly develop over a year

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Speaker 3: or two and eventually become a solid starting guard in

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Speaker 3: the NFL.

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Speaker 1: I think Cooper Beebe is definitely a good candidate. I've

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Speaker 1: you know, he's one of the more easier kind of

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Speaker 1: evaluations for me, honestly, you know, because first of all,

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Speaker 1: he has a lot of film. He has you know,

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Speaker 1: fifty starts or forty eight starts, so I mean you

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Speaker 1: could you can, you know, see him execute every sort

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Speaker 1: of block you could possibly win against a variety of competition,

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Speaker 1: especially because Kansas State scheme is multiple in the run game,

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Speaker 1: so you know you're gonna see pinpoll duo, inside zone power,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna see everything. So with that, considering you know,

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Speaker 1: his experience, you really get to see him execute a

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Speaker 1: lot and he does it at a high level. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's just consistent. I don't know that there's anything very good.

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Speaker 4: To elite I know there.

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Speaker 1: I don't think that there is about him, but does

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Speaker 1: a lot of things well, uh, and you know he

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Speaker 1: has the size in terms of build and the play

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Speaker 1: strength and the power that I think will translate and uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, again not not going to be like a

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Speaker 1: high end starter, but I think of all these guys

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Speaker 1: that we're going to talk about, he's the one who's

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Speaker 1: probably most ready to play inside. My favorite maybe of

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Speaker 1: these guys, especially if you can get him, you know

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Speaker 1: later in the second or even in the third, is

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Speaker 1: a guy like Dominic Pooney or even Christian Haynes and

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Speaker 1: then Christian Mahogany. Those three guys are really like three

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Speaker 1: of my guys in this class. I would say, you know, Pooney,

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Speaker 1: I just got done watching his film again because I'm

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Speaker 1: making all these cutups for my guy's article.

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Speaker 4: And I mean.

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Speaker 1: Pooney at his size to have the movement skills that

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Speaker 1: he does and the balance, it's really impressive his ability

402
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Speaker 1: to stay attached to blocks through counters and shed attempts

403
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Speaker 1: and just to find his footing. And he's just a

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Speaker 1: really good athlete at his size, and he has a

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Speaker 1: lot of power. So I mean, I just you know,

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Speaker 1: And then he repped at center again, not again, but

407
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Speaker 1: he repped at center at the Senior Bowl, so you

408
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Speaker 1: got to see him there and at guard as well.

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Speaker 1: I just think he's going to be a really easy

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Speaker 1: guy to project inside either of those two spots. And

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Speaker 1: then Christian Haynes one of my favorite guys in the draft.

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Speaker 1: A lot of guys have been talking about him, and

413
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Speaker 1: I think for good reason. I mean, he's he's a technician.

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Speaker 1: I think, another guy with a ton of starts, although

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Speaker 1: all of them are at right guard. But yeah, he's

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Speaker 1: I think, pretty easy to project. I don't see a

417
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Speaker 1: super high ceiling with him. I see maybe best case

418
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Speaker 1: like a Kevin Dotson. He was my comparison for him,

419
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Speaker 1: kind of a right guard only player, but a guy

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Speaker 1: who has good length, good strength, and I just think

421
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Speaker 1: mentally he's so sharp, he's so consistent with technique, footwork, timing.

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Speaker 1: He just definitely knows what he's doing out there and

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Speaker 1: is very consistent with it. And I think he's probably

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Speaker 1: the best finisher in the draft as well. He's really

425
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Speaker 1: his demeanor is what you were looking for for I

426
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Speaker 1: think offensive line coaches will particularly love him. And then

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Speaker 1: Mahogany is kind of the wild card of the bunch,

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Speaker 1: I think, but I tend to favor these guys, especially

429
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Speaker 1: if you can get them a little later, big maybe

430
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Speaker 1: the most powerful guy in the class. You know, I

431
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Speaker 1: think he's certainly in the conversation, he's just a little

432
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Speaker 1: wild and kind of frenetic, I would say, and how

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Speaker 1: he plays, and he just needs to learn to kind

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Speaker 1: of reel it in and be more pa but really

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00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:05,440
Speaker 1: good athlete, and he's just he's mean and he's powerful.

436
00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:08,439
Speaker 1: So I tend to favor those guys. And if he

437
00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:10,480
Speaker 1: gets into a spot with, you know, a decent offensive

438
00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:13,240
Speaker 1: line coach, I think he could turn into a starter

439
00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:13,720
Speaker 1: as well.

440
00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:15,040
Speaker 3: You know, I think the other guy you have in

441
00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:17,760
Speaker 3: that neighborhood is Isaiah Adams out of Illinois Brandon.

442
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:20,000
Speaker 2: I really liked that the Senior Bowl.

443
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:21,639
Speaker 3: You know, they had to play him at a position

444
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:23,840
Speaker 3: at tackle where he just didn't have the movement skills

445
00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:27,119
Speaker 3: to play there. But at his size at guard, I

446
00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:29,280
Speaker 3: think he can. I think he's not that dissimilar from

447
00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,199
Speaker 3: mahogany where. You know, if he shore some things up,

448
00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:34,400
Speaker 3: I think he could be a real solid starting guard

449
00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:35,120
Speaker 3: at the next level.

450
00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:36,560
Speaker 4: Yeah.

451
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:39,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, you really got to watch a lot of his film,

452
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:41,240
Speaker 1: I think, because if you do watch the right tackle

453
00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:43,480
Speaker 1: game against Penn State, he kind of got put there

454
00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:45,639
Speaker 1: at you know, the last minute, I think to account

455
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:49,280
Speaker 1: for injury, and it was it was a really bad game. Yeah,

456
00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:51,359
Speaker 1: it was very bad. But you know, the more you

457
00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:53,400
Speaker 1: watch him, he kind of settled into it. I think

458
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:55,560
Speaker 1: right tackle, that is, he had ten starts there and

459
00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:58,400
Speaker 1: he kind of got better at it, got more serviceable functional.

460
00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:00,480
Speaker 1: But he really kind of got to go back and

461
00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:03,000
Speaker 1: forth years with him and make sure you watch him

462
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:05,639
Speaker 1: at left guard, and then I think if you do that,

463
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:07,320
Speaker 1: then you could kind of get a really good idea

464
00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:09,760
Speaker 1: of what he is. I compared him to Aaron Banks

465
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:12,440
Speaker 1: coming out of Notre Dame. I think they just play

466
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:17,200
Speaker 1: very similar. But yeah, I think he's an above average

467
00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:21,800
Speaker 1: rum blocker. He has solid quickness, body control, you know,

468
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:25,000
Speaker 1: he's a good finisher. Uh He's he's upright, you know,

469
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:28,119
Speaker 1: and he plays tall like Aaron Banks. Guys can slip,

470
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:30,920
Speaker 1: you know, get inside underneath slip him a little quickly,

471
00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:33,240
Speaker 1: so you know that's going to be kind of an

472
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:36,359
Speaker 1: issue for him. But I think pass protection, he's fluid,

473
00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:38,840
Speaker 1: he's quick. You know, we saw some of that at

474
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:41,119
Speaker 1: the Senior Bowl. All those hands. I thought they got

475
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:43,879
Speaker 1: him into trouble a little bit. But you know, he's

476
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:47,040
Speaker 1: he's a real interesting player, and I think he has

477
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:51,280
Speaker 1: the size, the strength, the quickness, and enough finishing skills to,

478
00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:54,120
Speaker 1: you know, at least be a backup right away and

479
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:56,840
Speaker 1: a guy who can become a solid starter within his

480
00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:59,400
Speaker 1: rookie contract. I think is kind of how I would

481
00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:01,520
Speaker 1: characterize you, know, how I view him.

482
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:04,800
Speaker 5: You're ready for a change. Pay Day comes early with Citizens,

483
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:08,160
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484
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:12,360
Speaker 5: Now you're raising goats and launching a lifestyle brand. Are

485
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:14,040
Speaker 5: you ready for all that life brings?

486
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:18,880
Speaker 2: Giant fans love a winner. It's why they love Citizens.

487
00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:21,160
Speaker 3: Named the twenty twenty two best bank in the US

488
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 3: by the Banker as the official bank of the Giants

489
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:25,119
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490
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:27,520
Speaker 3: fans of Big Blue. Learn more at Citizens bank dot com.

491
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:29,920
Speaker 3: Kind of these two, you know, second or third tier,

492
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,360
Speaker 3: ever you want to split up. The first group, Brandon

493
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:34,960
Speaker 3: that you have there is Patrick Paul and Roger Roseenngarden.

494
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:36,880
Speaker 2: I like Rosengarden a little bit more.

495
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:39,359
Speaker 3: I just think his moving skills are or are really strong,

496
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:41,320
Speaker 3: and I think he's being underrated by some people.

497
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:43,760
Speaker 2: And then Patrick Paul is just really tall and long.

498
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:45,560
Speaker 3: I think he might just a little too tall, to

499
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,159
Speaker 3: be honest with you, And in some ways, how do

500
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:50,639
Speaker 3: you view those guys as potential day two targets an

501
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,720
Speaker 3: offensive tackle then maybe have some upside to become starters

502
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:54,120
Speaker 3: one day.

503
00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:59,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, so Patrick Paul, I mean I I like him

504
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:01,679
Speaker 1: a good amount, even though I have, you know, a

505
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:06,080
Speaker 1: grade on him that's more like third round. I just think,

506
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:09,320
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, he is tall and long, but the

507
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:12,480
Speaker 1: best parts about him I think are his strength and

508
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:16,359
Speaker 1: how competitive, his competitive toughness. I mean, he's again, I'd

509
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:18,240
Speaker 1: put him on the short list for best finisher in

510
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:18,720
Speaker 1: the draft.

511
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 4: He's Wow.

512
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:21,920
Speaker 1: He brings it kind of an edge to him. You

513
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,080
Speaker 1: got to watch the sideline copy when you watch him,

514
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:26,520
Speaker 1: because there's a lot of extracurricular stuff happening.

515
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 2: I'll see that. Then I usually just watch the end

516
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 2: zone with these guys.

517
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you watch the end zone, but then

518
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,080
Speaker 1: if it cuts off and you don't get to see

519
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 1: the finish, which you know it happens a lot, you

520
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,199
Speaker 1: got to just watch his finishes because he's he's going

521
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 1: to bring an edge.

522
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:43,800
Speaker 4: You know.

523
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,159
Speaker 1: He reminds me a lot of Braxton Jones. In that

524
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:49,360
Speaker 1: because Braxton Jones is the same way. He's very physical,

525
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 1: very aggressive, and very strong, you know, and I think

526
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 1: Patrick Paul is all those things, but his technique needs

527
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:01,919
Speaker 1: a lot of work in past protections, specifically strike timing

528
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:05,480
Speaker 1: and hand placement. It was an issue in college. Lets

529
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,679
Speaker 1: guys get inside of him way too often, which you know,

530
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 1: allows you to see him get into compromising positions and

531
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:16,199
Speaker 1: get out of them fairly well. But in the pros

532
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 1: he's just going to have to clean that up. He

533
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:21,960
Speaker 1: can't get into that many positions. So hand placement is

534
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 1: really the big thing with him, and if it could

535
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 1: just get incrementally better, I think you have a starter,

536
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:30,680
Speaker 1: but that has to get corrected first, and uh yeah,

537
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 1: we'll see there. So I just thought that that, you know,

538
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:36,239
Speaker 1: really is holding him back more than anything, and then

539
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:38,679
Speaker 1: Rosengarden to me, I honestly, I wish it kind of

540
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,399
Speaker 1: would have went back. I just think he needs to

541
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 1: get stronger. He's just not very strong. He gets kind

542
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:48,359
Speaker 1: of bullied, you know, with anchoring or trying to anchor

543
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,640
Speaker 1: in the run game just doesn't really generate much movement.

544
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 1: He's you know, he's he's he's very scrappy I'm very

545
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 1: you know, crafty, I would say as well. I think

546
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,879
Speaker 1: he has the right mental and I really like some

547
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,040
Speaker 1: of the stuff he does. You know, he has a

548
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,480
Speaker 1: three step short technique, which is kind of a nuanced

549
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:11,680
Speaker 1: past protection technique that some pros primarily use. But he's

550
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 1: been coached by pro since high school, former pros that is,

551
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 1: so he's been exposed to, like some really high level coaching,

552
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 1: and I think you could see that. But I just

553
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:24,119
Speaker 1: think he just needs to develop. He just has to

554
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:26,200
Speaker 1: get stronger. So I don't know that he's going to

555
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 1: be able to deal with the bul rush, you know,

556
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:31,439
Speaker 1: right now, you know, in the NFL, So that's my

557
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,880
Speaker 1: biggest question. But over time, if that happens, I think

558
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 1: he could potentially start, But I see more of, you know,

559
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 1: a definite kind of swing at best, you know, until

560
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 1: that happens with him.

561
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:45,679
Speaker 3: You mentioned some of the technique stuff with Morgan and

562
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,879
Speaker 3: with Patrick Paul. Two other tackles that I think physically

563
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 3: Brandon can rank near anybody at the top of this

564
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 3: class is Suematia from BYU and Guidon from Oklahoma Boy.

565
00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:00,240
Speaker 3: They moved so well. Suemte I think plays with the

566
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:04,160
Speaker 3: real good nasty streak. He likes to just bury people

567
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 3: in the run game. But boy, in pass protection, they're

568
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:10,879
Speaker 3: hands they're just not in the right place. Ever, especially Geiton,

569
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 3: is that something that you think when you scot these

570
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 3: offensive linemen, that is the best chance of being corrected,

571
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 3: you know, getting your hands high, getting them inside, you know,

572
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 3: things like that. Is that something that you think, with

573
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 3: the right coaching, you can fix at the next level.

574
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:27,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean to an extent, I think you really

575
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 1: have to look at the player because oftentimes when the

576
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 1: hands are bad, the feed are two, you know in

577
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 1: terms of positioning, so you really kind of have to

578
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:40,919
Speaker 1: dissect those. And I think with Geydon in particular, you know,

579
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 1: he's just one of the more inexperienced guys in this class.

580
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 1: You know him and Amarius Smims is obviously the one

581
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 1: that everyone talks about, But Geydon is He's a one

582
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:51,880
Speaker 1: year starter. He played defensive line. You know, he hasn't

583
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 1: even been playing offensive line for more than a couple

584
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 1: of years. So this guy's like brand new to the position.

585
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,639
Speaker 4: He's very raw. You could see it. You know.

586
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,399
Speaker 1: He's another guy that you know, I guess if he

587
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 1: gets trapped in the first round, there's a moot point,

588
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:07,560
Speaker 1: but you know, probably could have you know, done well

589
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:09,200
Speaker 1: for himself to come back another year.

590
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 4: So he's one of those.

591
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 1: Guys that initially it may be very up and down

592
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 1: and kind of dicey, you know, as a rookie, but man,

593
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:18,679
Speaker 1: you know it'd be six eight three twenty and a

594
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 1: move like that is you know. I mean, you saw

595
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:23,640
Speaker 1: it at the Senior Bowl, you see it on tape.

596
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 1: You talk to anybody at Oklahoma, which I've gotten to talk,

597
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 1: you know, to some people there quite a bit about

598
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 1: him for the last couple of years, and they're a

599
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 1: year and a half or so, and like, you know,

600
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,119
Speaker 1: it's just so clear that this guy is different, uh

601
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 1: physically in terms of with being six ' eight and

602
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 1: how easy of a mover he is. I said in

603
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 1: my report, he just glides on the field. So you know,

604
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 1: those things are great and nice, but the real the

605
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 1: thing that really makes me like him is he's strong

606
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 1: as well. His anchor is actually really naturally strong. I

607
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 1: think you saw that at the Senior Bowl. Although there

608
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 1: was some up and down stuff there, especially against Nanarius Robinson,

609
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 1: but you see it on tape as well. So the

610
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 1: fact that He's naturally strong, that good of a mover,

611
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 1: that big, that inexperienced, which is kind of a plus

612
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 1: and a minus. Yeah, I would definitely roll the dice

613
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:17,040
Speaker 1: with him in the second round.

614
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 4: You know, he's.

615
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 1: Probably gonna go in the first, but I always like

616
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 1: to think of it like, you know, I give him

617
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 1: a second round grade. But you know, if I was

618
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 1: scouting for Philly, you know, he'd be a first round

619
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 1: grade all day. If you know, if I was scouting

620
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 1: for even like a Cincinnati where he can maybe sit,

621
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, I'd feel a lot more comfortable given

622
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 1: the first round grade to a guy like that. So

623
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 1: that's kind of how I see him. And then sum

624
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 1: Mattia is just kind of a little bit of a

625
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 1: step down from that, I think, you know, not not

626
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 1: quite as imposing of a guy as as Tyler Geyton,

627
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:53,719
Speaker 1: I would say, but high pedigree player who the flashes.

628
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 4: With him are nice.

629
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 1: I actually saw some good flashes and pass protection using

630
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 1: his hands, but it's just very up and down. So

631
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 1: he's a guy that you know, I would be more

632
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 1: comfortable drafting like firm second round.

633
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 4: I don't know that I would go first, you.

634
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 1: Know with him, and I you know, honestly with him,

635
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 1: considering he was I think the number three freak on

636
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 1: Bruce Feldman's freak list. I was expecting a better athlete,

637
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 1: you know, when I watched him on film. I think

638
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,959
Speaker 1: he's a good athlete, but I was expecting like Tyler Geydon,

639
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 1: you know. So that's kind of why I have him

640
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 1: at that sixth spot, ot six for me. But you know,

641
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 1: definitely a quality prospect. I mean I still like him.

642
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 3: Find one brand and appreciate you giving us thirty minutes

643
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 3: here has been fantastic. I'll give me one Day three

644
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 3: guy that you really like. That's one of your guys.

645
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 3: And then Giant fans want Evan Deal to kind of

646
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 3: rebound and you know, take the next step and become

647
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 3: a good starting offensive tackle.

648
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 2: What are the challenges there?

649
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 3: What does he really need to clean up in your

650
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 3: eyes to turn that corner and become a good starting

651
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 3: of right tackle in the NFL.

652
00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 1: So, yeah, Day three guys, there's a lot of them class,

653
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,480
Speaker 1: especially on the interior. I mean, gosh, you know I

654
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 1: would throw out maybe like a Hunter noors Ad, you know,

655
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 1: from Penn State. He's only been playing center one year.

656
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 1: He's a transfer Cornell. You know, he's just I think

657
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 1: made up the right way in terms of processing skills,

658
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 1: competitive toughness. But then he's a really good movie in test.

659
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 1: But you watch the film's he's a really good mover

660
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 1: and he just sticks on blocks pretty well. I just

661
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 1: think he could get better. He could kind of develop

662
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 1: into a starter at center. So he's a guy would

663
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 1: throw out there, but I love the center class. So

664
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 1: there's a lot of centers that I can you know,

665
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 1: just ask me a different one, different day of the week,

666
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 1: and I would, you know, talk about another one. But

667
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 1: he's one of the ones that continually kind of sticks

668
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 1: out for me. And then with Evan Neil, you know,

669
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 1: I thought about this a lot, and I think, well,

670
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 1: first of all, you know, first and foremost, getting healthy

671
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 1: last year was you know, he just wasn't healthy. You know,

672
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 1: most of those seven starts I think he had.

673
00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 3: Though he wasn't the first half of his is the

674
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 3: second half of his year he was playing on a

675
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 3: bad need too.

676
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:03,160
Speaker 2: To be honest with, he's been healthy for the Giants

677
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 2: like six games. It's been crazy.

678
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 1: I know, it's it's really unfortunate because he's a guy

679
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 1: who needs every ounce of movement skill that he has,

680
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 1: you know, being three sixty and if you hinder that

681
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 1: and play injured, it's just tough to get a real

682
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:21,000
Speaker 1: good read on who he can be as a pro

683
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 1: now in terms of when he is on the field

684
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 1: and you know, technique wise, I think his biggest thing

685
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 1: is learning to be patient and letting rushers come to

686
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 1: him rather than chasing guys and falling for the stutters

687
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 1: and the tempo and the hesitations and things like that.

688
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 2: And that's where balance issues come in, right when he

689
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 2: does that sort of stuff.

690
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean he needs to learn.

691
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 1: Ideally he would be he would kind of get the

692
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:47,480
Speaker 1: Dwan Jones treatment, although I think they're different players. The

693
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 1: way that Dwan Jones was used last year and Bill

694
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:52,600
Speaker 1: Callahan's scheme was he was a heavy vertical set guy.

695
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 1: He could mix it up and go get guys, but

696
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 1: for the most part he's setting vertical and what that

697
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 1: does is fort forces rushers to come to you and

698
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 1: it you obviously need to be a guy who can

699
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 1: anchor in that situation because you're going to be closer

700
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 1: to the quarterback. But I think Evan Neil can anchor.

701
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 1: So you know, the thing is if you if you're

702
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 1: vertical setting Evan Neil more often than not, he's not

703
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 1: going to have to get out there on angle forty

704
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,960
Speaker 1: five degree sets as often as he you know, sometimes does.

705
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 1: And any three hundred and fifty pound plus guy who

706
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:29,560
Speaker 1: gets out there too much, I mean it's going to

707
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 1: get it's not going to look good, especially if you know,

708
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 1: you're really young. So hopefully he can kind of be

709
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 1: used that way, or at least if he is setting

710
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 1: that way, just to be more patient, you know, with

711
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 1: his hands and play big and let guy forced guy

712
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 1: just stay inside out, force guys to run through you.

713
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 1: And I think that's probably his best bet. In fact,

714
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 1: I kind of know that's his best bet. And we'll

715
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:55,120
Speaker 1: see if he could do it, you know, if he

716
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 1: can have that discipline with his hands to do that.

717
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 1: But uh yeah, I mean he has to get right

718
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 1: physically first. And I don't know how people were writing

719
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 1: them off so quick, honestly, I mean, yeah, I liked

720
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 1: them coming out. Maybe that's part of it. But you know,

721
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:12,640
Speaker 1: he's super young, and you know he's been hurt a lot,

722
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 1: like you know, you know, you got to give this

723
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:15,879
Speaker 1: guy a little bit more time.

724
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 3: I think, no, I'm with you, And just so fans understand,

725
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:22,040
Speaker 3: when you say vertical set, you mean kind of straight back, right, yeah,

726
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 3: towards the backfield rather than out towards the sideline.

727
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 1: Correct, Yes, And just if people can imagine that in

728
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 1: their mind, vertical setting a tackle straight back, you're going

729
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:34,880
Speaker 1: to be closer to the quarterback. So there's plus and

730
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 1: minus to this. The minus is you're closer to the quarterbacks,

731
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 1: so you're more you're more susceptible to power. But that's

732
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,279
Speaker 1: why you typically see the three hundred and forty three

733
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:47,759
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty pounds plus guys vertical setting, because those

734
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,920
Speaker 1: are the guys that can handle power. So you're kind

735
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:54,480
Speaker 1: of xing out that minus. And the positive is you're

736
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:57,400
Speaker 1: not playing in that much space, and you just you

737
00:34:57,520 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 1: cut what the rusher can do in half, you know,

738
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 1: straight up off the top. You know they're not going

739
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 1: to be able to beat you necessarily around the corner

740
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:06,759
Speaker 1: because you're already so deep in the pocket, So you

741
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 1: kind of mitigate the speed aspect of it, and you

742
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 1: kind of play more of a power oriented game. And

743
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 1: typically you see the bigger guys do that, and or

744
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 1: at least the guys that can anchor like Joe Thomas

745
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 1: is kind of an anomaly.

746
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:20,359
Speaker 4: He did it a lot.

747
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 1: He's not the biggest guy, but he had a great anchor,

748
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:24,839
Speaker 1: you know, and some other guys have had success with

749
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 1: it as well, you know, Trent.

750
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 4: Brown being one, and some other guys.

751
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 1: But yeah, I just think that that approach would probably

752
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:38,359
Speaker 1: give Evan Neil the best chance of being a good

753
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 1: pass protector. And you know, we see the flashes in

754
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 1: the run game, and he's a powerful guy and he's strong,

755
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:45,960
Speaker 1: So I don't think those are the questions. It's just

756
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,759
Speaker 1: his discipline and his technique, you know, is the biggest thing.

757
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 4: I think.

758
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:52,000
Speaker 2: I apologize for one a couple of minutes long.

759
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:55,799
Speaker 3: Brandon Carl Brisillo is from the Dante Scarnekia school. Did

760
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:57,839
Speaker 3: he use that type of stuff in New England when

761
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,200
Speaker 3: Scarnekia was there? More vertical setting with the bigger guys,

762
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:01,360
Speaker 3: And you mentioned Trent Brown, which is.

763
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:02,840
Speaker 4: Why I asked, who's that?

764
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 2: Uh?

765
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,719
Speaker 3: When Scarnekia was in New England? How much did they

766
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 3: use vertical sets with their tackles? Because that's you Briscilla

767
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:11,720
Speaker 3: learned a lot from when he was in a system.

768
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 3: There's Scarnekia.

769
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right.

770
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know that Scarnekia necessarily majored in that.

771
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:21,360
Speaker 1: You know, I did see Trent Brown doing that there.

772
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:24,799
Speaker 1: But as far as other tackles that played for Scarnakia, uh,

773
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 1: typically they're they were kind of more smaller guys. And

774
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 1: oh yeah Nate Soldier, but he was a finesse kind

775
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 1: of guy like that that wouldn't really fit him. So

776
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 1: uh but you know, Scarnekia is one of those guys

777
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 1: who probably could teach anybody anything, and you know he

778
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:40,520
Speaker 1: was gonna adjust to whoever he has, so yeah, I mean,

779
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:42,719
Speaker 1: which you saw he had so many different kinds of

780
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:45,440
Speaker 1: body type, Shack Mason, Trent Brown, I mean, you know,

781
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:49,360
Speaker 1: six foot six ' eight, like, you know, power, you know,

782
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 1: finesse guys all over the place, you know as well.

783
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 1: So it's like, yeah, Scarnekia is kind of a you know,

784
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:57,719
Speaker 1: his own thing and in some sense, but yeah, like

785
00:36:57,760 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 1: Bill Callahan, I would say, is a good example of that.

786
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,719
Speaker 1: He has used that pretty extensively. And I think that's

787
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:04,799
Speaker 1: a big reason why Dwan Jones was able to have

788
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 1: as much success as he had last year, was because

789
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 1: he was handled in such a great way and so

790
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 1: vertical setting heavy and then when he faced guys like TJ.

791
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 1: Watt or Nick Bosa or some of the matchups he had,

792
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 1: he was provided a lot of help and then he

793
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 1: was kind of unleashed here and there, but it was

794
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 1: in spurts. It was very selective and he just he

795
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 1: was in the perfect spot, you know. So sometimes it

796
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:32,880
Speaker 1: happens like that and guys can get maximized. So hopefully

797
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:35,880
Speaker 1: Neil can kind of get into a similar sort of situation.

798
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 3: Brandon, awesome stuff again, Thanks for joining us Teldic folks.

799
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:40,800
Speaker 3: One more timing and where they can subscribe to the

800
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 3: Trench Warfare newsletter and everything else you're up to.

801
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, so trench Warfare dot substock dot com is where

802
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 1: you could find me, subscribe to my newsletter, get all

803
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:52,960
Speaker 1: my work there, and then social media. Brandon Thorn NFL.

804
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:54,920
Speaker 3: Thanks for joining us in the Giants Little podcast brought

805
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:56,600
Speaker 3: you by Citizens, the official Bank of the Giants.

806
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:57,720
Speaker 2: So see you next time. Everybody,