Speaker 1: You know what I've been thinking about lately. Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1: Whenever he started sounds like that, I know some crazy
Speaker 1: is about to come next. Yes, because that's usually how
Speaker 1: it goes. History has told you what rabbit hole are
Speaker 1: you going down? Now? Well, first of all, too many
Speaker 1: rabbit holes. But I'm just thinking about one, and it's
Speaker 1: that we're at our last lap of this semester. Huh.
Speaker 1: It's been a year that we've been doing this. Yes, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: but the science doesn't stop just because the semester is over.
Speaker 1: So the lab lights are still on. That's what you're saying,
Speaker 1: that's frighting overly on. I'm TT and I'm Zakiah and
Speaker 1: this is Dope Labs. Welcome to Dope Labs, a weekly
Speaker 1: podcast that mixes hardcore science with pop culture and a
Speaker 1: healthy dose of friendship. Over the last year, we've covered
Speaker 1: a lot of ground in the labs that we have done. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Some of them have been heavy topics, yes, and others
Speaker 1: have been really fun and some topics that had us
Speaker 1: texting each other like wait, what is happening? Listen. It's
Speaker 1: not just the topics but the news too. I'm still
Speaker 1: wondering what is happening every day I wake up and
Speaker 1: I say, are we still in twenty twenty six? A
Speaker 1: lot has happened in just a few short months. But
Speaker 1: today we're wrapping up semester five. But before we step
Speaker 1: away for a little bit, we want to talk about
Speaker 1: what we've been discussing and what we're keeping our eyes on. Okay,
Speaker 1: so what do we know over the last year. We've
Speaker 1: talked about a lot. But you know what stands out
Speaker 1: to me the most. A lot of our labs that
Speaker 1: we've done have been about systems. So, okay, what do
Speaker 1: you mean by systems? I think, if I were to
Speaker 1: like sum it up, it's like the invisible stuff, the
Speaker 1: stuff we can't see that's shaping how we live our algorithms.
Speaker 1: That's markets, labor markets, economic markets, environmental exposures, institutions. Right,
Speaker 1: because we talked about everything this semester, AI relationships, sports
Speaker 1: betting and prediction markets, the psychology of Black Friday shopping,
Speaker 1: air pollution, and what's actually in the air we're breathing.
Speaker 1: I know the air in my office right now is
Speaker 1: mostly make up setting spray. We even talked about the
Speaker 1: science behind the Grammys, which I still think people are underestimating. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of math in the Grammys, a lot
Speaker 1: of psychology, and yeah it's heavy. It's heavy stuff. So
Speaker 1: if you zoom out, what do you think the big
Speaker 1: theme of our year was, Well, to piggyback off of
Speaker 1: what you're saying, because you put that bug in my ear.
Speaker 1: It's probably how science and systems are quietly shaping our lives.
Speaker 1: And unfortunately, or fortunately I feel it was like the
Speaker 1: quiet party is out loud now, oh my goodness, very loud.
Speaker 1: All right, So we did a little look back at
Speaker 1: what we've talked about. But we're going to be away
Speaker 1: and I know we'll text about what we have our
Speaker 1: eyes on. Yes, I want to know, so you can
Speaker 1: tell everybody else what you have your eyes on for
Speaker 1: twenty twenty six. Well, for twenty twenty six, I am
Speaker 1: keeping my eyes open on the policy stuff. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm into the policy arm now and so now all
Speaker 1: of those things are just in the forefront of my mind.
Speaker 1: I feel like so much is going on behind the scenes,
Speaker 1: like people are doing some very strange things that are
Speaker 1: very anti what we're used to, Okay, and so I'm
Speaker 1: just kind of like holding my breath. But also making
Speaker 1: sure that I'm staying up to date with what's going
Speaker 1: on in politics. It could be draining, but it's important.
Speaker 1: It is so important to stay on top of it.
Speaker 1: I'm also keeping my eye out on ways that I
Speaker 1: can make sure that in the midst of all of
Speaker 1: this turmoil and things that are stressing me out, ways
Speaker 1: to incorporate self care because all of this can be
Speaker 1: heavy on your psyche. All this can be heavy on
Speaker 1: your emotions, and so making sure that I'm not suffering
Speaker 1: from burnout with everything that's going on in the world,
Speaker 1: and injecting more levity, injecting more art, injecting more music,
Speaker 1: injecting all the things that make me smile, because I
Speaker 1: think there has to be a balance there, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure, what are you keeping your eye on? I
Speaker 1: think everything everything they're shifting around, looking right, looking weird
Speaker 1: in the corner. Okay, I think there are a couple things.
Speaker 1: So when you said self care, that really rang a
Speaker 1: bell for me. You know, I think I've talked about
Speaker 1: it on the show a lot, about getting my right
Speaker 1: sleeping pattern. I'm back biking, hopefully in the next few
Speaker 1: weeks because it's warming up here enough for that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and so getting outside, being in nature and also trying
Speaker 1: to avoid all the pollen that will come along with that,
Speaker 1: but also some community care and not just self care.
Speaker 1: So one of the things recently I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: I think I'll volunteer. And sometimes it feels like you
Speaker 1: have to go to a church or a library to volunteer.
Speaker 1: And I was like, let me start with the people
Speaker 1: in my community. And so I just reached out to
Speaker 1: some people I know here in Atlanta that are friends
Speaker 1: and I was like, Hey, do you need any help
Speaker 1: with anything today? I love that or tomorrow whatever. And
Speaker 1: so I think, you know, people are aching for a community,
Speaker 1: but a lot of the conversation I've seen is like, hey,
Speaker 1: you got to be willing to contribute and create that
Speaker 1: community that you want to be there for you. And
Speaker 1: so that's one piece. The other thing is a little
Speaker 1: bit more sociology and behavior. But it's Punched the monkey.
Speaker 1: Okay have you seen them acaque over in Japan? Poor Punch.
Speaker 1: I felt so bad for the baby. Let people know
Speaker 1: who Punch is before you you talk about him. Punch
Speaker 1: is a macaque in the I Chicago City Zoo in Japan,
Speaker 1: and he was rejected at birth by his mother. This
Speaker 1: is a very devastating thing to happen for someone like him.
Speaker 1: I'm saying someone an animal. And he was bottle fed
Speaker 1: by the zoo staff. He had to be reintegrated into
Speaker 1: this new troop and they had to he had to
Speaker 1: kind of fight for his own position. And one of
Speaker 1: the monkeys was in there being a bully. Okay, a bully.
Speaker 1: I said, get him out. Listen we he started throwing
Speaker 1: Punch around. I said, get him out of there. Go
Speaker 1: get our boy. The internet rally behind Punch. Yes, Punch
Speaker 1: has pissed so many people on his side, and I
Speaker 1: think that's interesting because it's animal behavior that we're seeing,
Speaker 1: but we're able to resonate with it. And it made
Speaker 1: me think about our first episode Cuffing Season, where we
Speaker 1: talked about animal behavior around mating and how it looks
Speaker 1: similar in some ways to human behavior. And then once
Speaker 1: again we're seeing those same people are able to identify
Speaker 1: and they're like, oh, this person is Punch his friend
Speaker 1: or you know, we're looking at these social behaviors that
Speaker 1: we also exhibit, and so I think it's really I'm like, hey,
Speaker 1: we're all primeates. Baby, Yeah, these fingernails soft claws, soft clause.
Speaker 1: As my friend would say, Oh my goodness, I'm also
Speaker 1: keeping my eye out on AI. And this kind of
Speaker 1: goes to the policy honestly, because I mean AI is
Speaker 1: changing every five minutes, literally, like every week. There's new
Speaker 1: developments in the AI space, and the technology is advancing.
Speaker 1: It is like when we say breakneck speed. It is
Speaker 1: really really fast, and folks are just trying to keep up.
Speaker 1: No one who works in the AI space anticipated that
Speaker 1: it would be where it is right now in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty six, and so one of the big questions that
Speaker 1: scientists are asking right now is whether AI can actually
Speaker 1: help discover new science. Let me tell you I was
Speaker 1: asked from that question a while back, and I think
Speaker 1: part of that is because people think about the large
Speaker 1: language modelers and the interfaces that are like generic uses
Speaker 1: like chat, GPT. But Anthropic has been growing on the scene.
Speaker 1: You know, I've been following what they're doing with AI
Speaker 1: for science, and I gotta tell you, I am I
Speaker 1: am impressed. Okay, Now, I think they're showing us just
Speaker 1: what's possible, even just for like one example I saw
Speaker 1: was like this plug in and you can have all
Speaker 1: your lab's data So think about a lab. Think about
Speaker 1: the lab that I was in in grad school. You know,
Speaker 1: my advisor ended up retiring, but there were samples in
Speaker 1: those freezers from the eighties and nineties. Okay, so we're
Speaker 1: talking in twenty fourteen. I'm trying to look back through
Speaker 1: books and see writing in people's lab notebooks from the nineties. Now,
Speaker 1: imagine all the results from our lab, negative results that
Speaker 1: don't get published, all of that being catalog. Imagine those
Speaker 1: things being scanned in and we have a database. So
Speaker 1: when a new student comes along, they can say, hey,
Speaker 1: actually it's not published, but I know this this and
Speaker 1: this won't work, or here are the results of this
Speaker 1: other experiment. So we don't waste time, we don't waste resources.
Speaker 1: We could say, are there any patterns that I hadn't
Speaker 1: see over the past twenty years but that AI can
Speaker 1: detect and then I can test and verify, Like, baby,
Speaker 1: what do you know what we could have done with
Speaker 1: that type of technology? PhD in ten days they just
Speaker 1: gonna be giving it out. But that's just one small
Speaker 1: use case, and it's exciting. It is. And I think
Speaker 1: that when people talk about AI, it's always just you know, chat, GPT,
Speaker 1: and we got to expand our understanding of what AI
Speaker 1: is and what it's possible with AI, because there's a
Speaker 1: lot of really cool work being done. I know that
Speaker 1: there are a lot of folks talking about its impact
Speaker 1: on the environment and things like that, and we the
Speaker 1: scientists understand and are working on those things too. As
Speaker 1: AI advances, the the sustainability of it all will also advance,
Speaker 1: so I think that that's something that we have to
Speaker 1: keep in mind as well. Another thing that we talked
Speaker 1: about this year was money, Where is it all going?
Speaker 1: People are always want to know what's going on with
Speaker 1: the economy, and I feel like the economy is such
Speaker 1: a big word, like what does that even mean? And
Speaker 1: everything it seems right? And we talked about the psychology
Speaker 1: of spending, Black Friday, gambling, risk and all of those
Speaker 1: things associated with it, because we really wanted to focus
Speaker 1: on the individual because it feels like that's the only
Speaker 1: thing we can control. All of this is behavioral science,
Speaker 1: and I've been interested in this over the years. This
Speaker 1: is not where my training is, okay, but I do
Speaker 1: think I'm curious with the rise of AI and with
Speaker 1: so much information, what about human processing of that information?
Speaker 1: That's gonna matter even more. And so like understanding the
Speaker 1: drivers what makes you do the things you do. With
Speaker 1: all this information, you now have access to what makes
Speaker 1: you act on a thing or not all of that.
Speaker 1: It feels like we're gonna need to understand that even better.
Speaker 1: And I think in a world where capitalism is in
Speaker 1: the driver's seat, it pays to know these things absolutely.
Speaker 1: And the big question, one of the big questions right
Speaker 1: now is what does AI mean for jobs? And I
Speaker 1: think that folks are really nervous. People are nervous about
Speaker 1: what that means for their jobs in the future. I know,
Speaker 1: like in the law space, lawyers are actually really nervous
Speaker 1: because you know all of that. I don't even know
Speaker 1: what the right words are roxy if you're listening case law,
Speaker 1: all those books and stuff. AI is able to do redlines.
Speaker 1: AI is able to do all of these things. And
Speaker 1: so I know it's not just the folks that are
Speaker 1: doing jobs and a factory. It's like every industry is
Speaker 1: feeling the impacts of AI. And so I think we're
Speaker 1: going through one of those moments where technology changes the
Speaker 1: kinds of work that humans do. I don't think that
Speaker 1: it's going to just get rid of like whole sectors,
Speaker 1: like we always going to need lawyers, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, And we're always going to need doctors, and
Speaker 1: we're always going to need people that can help with
Speaker 1: building people with trade skills. I think the jobs is
Speaker 1: just gonna look a little different. I think they will
Speaker 1: definitely look different, and how we prepare will look different. Listen,
Speaker 1: these types of changes and shifts in the human workforce
Speaker 1: have happened before the Industrial Revolution. Having computers, having the internet,
Speaker 1: all those things have changed how we train, They've changed
Speaker 1: what the education system looks like. And so I'm thinking
Speaker 1: back to our episode where we talked about the economy
Speaker 1: and the changes in the workforce, and I think what
Speaker 1: we will see is a shift to more intermittent training.
Speaker 1: So that means you don't just go to school one
Speaker 1: time and you stay in that career for thirty years
Speaker 1: and you rely on that knowledge from the institutional knowledge
Speaker 1: from school and then the experiential knowledge from over time.
Speaker 1: I don't think that's going to be the way it is.
Speaker 1: I think you'll have three and four careers, and what
Speaker 1: we need is infrastructure to support that to help people
Speaker 1: shift as the workforce does. That's such a great point.
Speaker 1: And that also makes me think about because we talked
Speaker 1: about the politics more, and we talked about politics a
Speaker 1: lot this season and found its way into almost every
Speaker 1: single episode. And that's because science is never isolated from politics.
Speaker 1: You know, we've talked about immigration, surveillance, who knew Enemy
Speaker 1: of the State was real? Nonfiction? All of these things
Speaker 1: are shaped by what policy allows. Even when we look
Speaker 1: at you know, what medicines are available, treatments are being approved,
Speaker 1: what careers people are able to get loans for so
Speaker 1: that they can continue to go to college. All of
Speaker 1: these things are shaped by policy. And we know science
Speaker 1: is also affected by those things because it depends on
Speaker 1: ideas moving, even when they're not clear cut or they
Speaker 1: feel messy at the beginning. So and it depends on
Speaker 1: knowledge moving. Absolutely, those two things are intertwined, as are
Speaker 1: all things. That's why we say science is in everything,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Yeah, And that's like the
Speaker 1: bedrock of Dope Labs is that science is in everything
Speaker 1: and that we need to arm ourselves with resources that
Speaker 1: will help us understand what is going on around us
Speaker 1: in the world day to day. Yes, so we talked
Speaker 1: about rabbit holes at the beginning. I didn't quite let
Speaker 1: you get into it. But what rabbit hole are you
Speaker 1: currently in? Thank you for opening the door. It's just
Speaker 1: a little bit, don't get I put my foot in there. Okay,
Speaker 1: you won't be able to close it back for me.
Speaker 1: I think the there are a couple rabbit holes. So
Speaker 1: I mentioned biking, but also birds. It's time the birds
Speaker 1: are moving fir rating. Oh okay, you should have seen
Speaker 1: the look she gave me. All she was not happy
Speaker 1: with what do you mean time for what? Listen? These
Speaker 1: are a pollinators. Sometimes these are our cues of seasons changing.
Speaker 1: They're so exciting. There's so much to learn, and I
Speaker 1: really would like to do a little bit. But what
Speaker 1: do they call that container? Garden it? The earths are expensive, okay,
Speaker 1: and they're going mushy in the refrigerator fab so I
Speaker 1: need my own supply. I remember when we were in
Speaker 1: grad school, you would open up their back door and
Speaker 1: just cut out cut basal leaves and stuff like that,
Speaker 1: and I was like, what is going on back there, honey?
Speaker 1: Like I had never seen that before in my life.
Speaker 1: Somebody opened their door and cut stuff and then put
Speaker 1: it in the food Like is these lawn clippings no flavor.
Speaker 1: Ho really should have excited me for that. Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: Now what about you, I'm not letting you get away?
Speaker 1: Uh huh Okay. So for me, the rabbit hole that
Speaker 1: I'm going down is mainly focused on human behavior. I
Speaker 1: think the rise of parasocial relationships, like people feeling like
Speaker 1: they know someone because they follow them on Instagram or
Speaker 1: TikTok or watch their YouTube videos. Yes, that is just
Speaker 1: so interesting to me because and it's not even coming
Speaker 1: from a place of judgment. I be feeling like I
Speaker 1: know these people. I've been following some people for over
Speaker 1: a decade, and when they get married, I'm like, wow,
Speaker 1: I didn't even get invited. It's interesting though, because we
Speaker 1: talk about this t t and I feel like there
Speaker 1: are some og Dope Labs listeners that I'm like, hey,
Speaker 1: I can't believe how much your baby has grown, and
Speaker 1: I'm like telling them I said, hello, look at our
Speaker 1: little tiny shift. Right, That's how I feel. And then
Speaker 1: some people I'm like, who is this? You know? Right,
Speaker 1: there's this woman on TikTok who had a very public
Speaker 1: dating relationship. When she went on a first date with
Speaker 1: this man, knew about it. She talked about him. She
Speaker 1: eventually married this man and UH had like a what
Speaker 1: felt like a TikTok wedding where it was like all
Speaker 1: these brands, like brands bought her dress, brands did the
Speaker 1: makeup brands, like it was just very TikTok because she's
Speaker 1: like one of the most popular TikTokers or whatever. She
Speaker 1: also let us like a little bit too much into
Speaker 1: her life and so we were we observed like her
Speaker 1: husband's drug addiction and like now they're getting a divorce,
Speaker 1: and so people are just like in the comments talking
Speaker 1: crazy and I'm just like, we don't know her, we
Speaker 1: don't know her. I'm like, I have the biggest we
Speaker 1: don't know her. We don't know her. Like she's volunteered
Speaker 1: a lot of information, and so people are like, well,
Speaker 1: if you put that out there, we're allowed to comment,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, but you don't have to. But you
Speaker 1: don't have to. You don't have to, and so it's
Speaker 1: just really interesting how people make those decisions. I'm like,
Speaker 1: is it a generational thing? I don't think so, because
Speaker 1: I see some folks my age and older who are
Speaker 1: in the comments section doing stuff behaving terribly. Yeah, because
Speaker 1: I'm and I'm just like me. I'm not like the
Speaker 1: way that I interacted with the Internet. I feel like
Speaker 1: you're the same way too, Like we remember what it
Speaker 1: was like before there was social media. We know, in
Speaker 1: person beef, you know, yes, all this it don't mean
Speaker 1: nothing to me. All that typing, all that typing, right, oh,
Speaker 1: in person beef and internet beef is making me think
Speaker 1: about fifty cent and TI the South got something to
Speaker 1: say now. I haven't even been able to keep up
Speaker 1: what's going on? Can you please bring me up to
Speaker 1: speed really quick. It's not even important. It's grown people
Speaker 1: being ridiculous. Okay, that's all it is. I don't think
Speaker 1: that beef is worth any of our time. There's so
Speaker 1: much on our plate. Take that little piece of beef off. Okakay,
Speaker 1: don't don't even worry about it. That's the gristle. Throw
Speaker 1: it in the track, yes, the gristle. So well, that's
Speaker 1: mainly what my rabbit hole has been. And just like
Speaker 1: why we make the decisions that we make, and trusting
Speaker 1: some technologies over others, and you know, how we interact
Speaker 1: with technology. Those are the things that I've been kind
Speaker 1: of like deep diving into and trying to understand more.
Speaker 1: If there's something I can say, I want everybody to
Speaker 1: keep their eye on and to keep the pressure on,
Speaker 1: is scientific discovery. Don't stop asking for more things, you know.
Speaker 1: I feel like we're seeing funding cuts. I was on
Speaker 1: the GAO website which I said, I don't think I'm
Speaker 1: even supposed to be over here, okay, and that's the
Speaker 1: Government Accountability Office. I've been looking at research infrastructure, how
Speaker 1: it's slowed since twenty twenty four. What was expected. Projects
Speaker 1: are being scrapped, so scope has decreased, delivery is delayed,
Speaker 1: and so I'm just like I recently went to a
Speaker 1: Rare disease conference put on by the Boston Globe, and
Speaker 1: I was looking at what's happening next, what's in the pipeline,
Speaker 1: and how these companies are pushing for these things, and
Speaker 1: I was like, we need our government to push as well,
Speaker 1: and so like, I am keeping my eyes on scientific discovery,
Speaker 1: innovation and application for people to have better lives across
Speaker 1: the board. Absolutely, I think I'm right there with you
Speaker 1: because it is so so important to stay on top
Speaker 1: of these things. What they're hoping is is that we
Speaker 1: won't and that all these things will be going on
Speaker 1: in the background and we are being distracted by a
Speaker 1: bunch of other stuff. The midterm elections are coming up,
Speaker 1: and we have got to get to the polls because
Speaker 1: when we vote, we win. Okay, that's the theme for
Speaker 1: this next midterm is like, you got to get to
Speaker 1: the polls because if we all show up and vote,
Speaker 1: we will win. Period. I like that. And don't be distracted.
Speaker 1: Like you said, you can always click another link, add
Speaker 1: another tab, come back to it later and read it,
Speaker 1: learn about it, be informed exactly. Science doesn't stop, Curiosity
Speaker 1: doesn't stop, that's right, just curiouser and curiouser. So that's
Speaker 1: a wrap on semester five. This has been so much
Speaker 1: fun bringing you labs every single week for the past year,
Speaker 1: hit after hit after hit after here and I guess
Speaker 1: we'll just see you next time. You know where to
Speaker 1: find us, by y'all. You can find us on X
Speaker 1: and Instagram at Dope Labs podcast. You can find me
Speaker 1: ct on X, threads and Instagram at dr Underscore t Sho,
Speaker 1: and you can find Zakiya at z said So. Dope
Speaker 1: Labs is a production of Lemonada Media. Our supervising producer
Speaker 1: is Keegan Zemma. Dope Labs is sound designed, edited, and
Speaker 1: mixed by James sparber Lemonada's Senior Vice President of Content
Speaker 1: and Production is Jackie Danziger. Executive producer from iHeart Podcast
Speaker 1: is Katrina Norvil. Marketing lead is Alison Kanter. Original music
Speaker 1: composed and produced by Takayatsuzawa and Alex suki Ura, with
Speaker 1: additional music by Elijah Harvey. Dope Labs is executive produced
Speaker 1: by us T T Show Dia and Zakiah Wattley.