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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from coast to coast am on

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio Beatrice.

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Speaker 2: When we met before in twenty twenty three, we had

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Speaker 2: private conversations about what this has been like for you personally.

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Speaker 2: I don't know how far you want to go, but

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Speaker 2: I'd like to ask you about it. You make this

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Speaker 2: really astonishing discovery and it's physical evidence of a sort.

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Speaker 2: We don't know what it proves exactly. I'm wondering did

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Speaker 2: you share it with some colleagues there to get input on, Hey,

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Speaker 2: am I missing something? Is there some explanation I'm not

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Speaker 2: thinking of here? And if so, what kind of reactions

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Speaker 2: did you get?

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Speaker 3: So when we first found or when I first found

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Speaker 3: these nine stars or this image, I talked to my

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Speaker 3: office mate with a co author, Alina Strichanska, so she

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Speaker 3: was also like, wow, what is this? And more colleagues

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Speaker 3: I started showing to some more people like what am

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Speaker 3: I seeing? So I contacted a professor or emeritus professor

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Speaker 3: in California. Again, we were in pandemics, so everything was

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Speaker 3: happening or email, and I asked him do you have

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Speaker 3: any idea? So his name was Jeff Marcy, and he

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Speaker 3: helped me to start like trying to figure out what

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Speaker 3: is happening on this image. So we did publish that

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Speaker 3: paper in twenty twenty one. So in the end of

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Speaker 3: May or beginning of June twenty twenty one, I got

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Speaker 3: the acceptance letter and yeah, and then it was published,

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Speaker 3: and of course there were some people who were very

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Speaker 3: excited about what we have found in like some astronomers

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Speaker 3: like wow, what is that? Like this is so weird

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Speaker 3: and this could be something really really important. However, it

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Speaker 3: coincided with something else that happened exactly the same time

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Speaker 3: to my co author, and we got so much black

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Speaker 3: that I started getting like, well, I got some kind

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Speaker 3: of partially canceled with it.

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Speaker 2: So that's a story warning warning.

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Speaker 3: People forgot about about the discovery and only focused on

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Speaker 3: how to be angry with me for my choice of

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Speaker 3: co author.

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Speaker 2: Well, welcome to Welcome to the world of the UFO Mystery.

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Speaker 2: I guess.

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Speaker 1: So.

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Speaker 2: Was there any kind of threat to your employment or

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Speaker 2: anything like that?

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Speaker 3: Oh, I've had so much that I don't like of

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Speaker 3: stuff happening like, well, I can't tell quite some why

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Speaker 3: should I be holding everything secret? And then I can

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Speaker 3: tell also some parallels that I see with a friend

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Speaker 3: of mine here in Sweden who also discovered something, and

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Speaker 3: he also got complete slack, and I start noticing, I

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Speaker 3: don't know, there might be some patterns that I see.

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Speaker 3: So what happened was that my colleague Jeff Marcy, he

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Speaker 3: had the scandal twenty fifteen which cost him the Nobel

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Speaker 3: Price for discovering in the first extra planets. That was

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Speaker 3: twenty fifteen. So he retired and he kept but he

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Speaker 3: kept doing science, and he had some between twenty fifteen

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Speaker 3: and twenty twenty one, he had papers in collaborations, something

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Speaker 3: like seventy papers. But exactly the same week as we

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Speaker 3: were getting our paper accepted for whatever reason, just the

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Speaker 3: wonderful timing of coincidental timing, and the National Academy of

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Speaker 3: Sciences they went to Science and Nature and they said, oh,

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Speaker 3: we have looked at the sexual harassment scandal of Jeff

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Speaker 3: mars in twenty fifteen. Now remember he was later convicted

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Speaker 3: in any courtes or internal things that happened at Berkeley

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Speaker 3: in times, and I didn't know he was, so I

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Speaker 3: forgot what I wanted to say. Oh, well, the National

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Speaker 3: Academy of Science is exactly that same week as we

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Speaker 3: were about to well we were about to get our

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Speaker 3: paper accepted. They decided to throw him out from the

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Speaker 3: National Academy of Sciences as the first example ever. So

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Speaker 3: it became a big story in science and nature. And

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Speaker 3: then they said, but why do people still collaborate with

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Speaker 3: him seven years after So of course they attacked the

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Speaker 3: groups and collaborators that came with papers with him the

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Speaker 3: coming weeks, which is another group in California. They got

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Speaker 3: lots of flag and I got so there was this

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Speaker 3: woman that posted I photo from my paper the manuscripture

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Speaker 3: with my name and Jeff's names and wrote something like, yes,

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Speaker 3: women participate in rape culture. I got removed from another conference.

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Speaker 3: I got phone calls from people saying, don't advertise your paper,

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Speaker 3: don't make any press release, because you're going to be

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Speaker 3: in trouble if you do. And that was just the

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Speaker 3: first wave, because it became like lots of stuff like

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Speaker 3: it just contained, and it continued and it never stopped.

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Speaker 3: And like I got, I was in one place where

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Speaker 3: like I was at that time abroad, I wasn't in Sweden,

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Speaker 3: and I remember someone said, you, well, if you're going

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Speaker 3: to co author with if you're going to co author,

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Speaker 3: which I please don't use the institute's affiliation. And I

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Speaker 3: was like, come on, that's not correct. I'm gonna do

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Speaker 3: it anyway, which wasn't appreciated.

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Speaker 2: Of course.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought all the time it was from so

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Speaker 3: many directions and it was so unbelievably exhausting, and I

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Speaker 3: had an even like more difficult thing here that happened

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Speaker 3: locally where it was such an enormous tension for a

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Speaker 3: few weeks that in the end I got such a

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Speaker 3: chest pain and ended up in hospital. I was there

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Speaker 3: for a complete day, and well, you know how it

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Speaker 3: can be if you get some really serious chest pain

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Speaker 3: and you can't stand up or anything like that. So

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Speaker 3: that was how it went. And then I was like,

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Speaker 3: after it happened, I said, I'm not going to be

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Speaker 3: silent about it anymore. I don't want to get to

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Speaker 3: hospital again. I don't want to be continuously under that

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Speaker 3: kind of harassment. So I wrote to the International Astronomical

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Speaker 3: Union and they actually supported me. So they made a

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Speaker 3: code of conduct change where they forbid harassment people were

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Speaker 3: like collaborating with someone like Jeff and guess what. A

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Speaker 3: number of professors then decided to fight back, so they

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Speaker 3: took it to Nature. They took it to Science then

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Speaker 3: early in this year, and Nature journal wrote about it,

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Speaker 3: and they wrote a story where they had included of

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Speaker 3: how I was removed from a conference, and they interviewed

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Speaker 3: they pretended they interviewed a neutral guy, another professor in

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Speaker 3: a US institution. But this guy, he was heavily involved,

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Speaker 3: and he even has a big blog post of why

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Speaker 3: it was correct to remove me from the conference. But

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Speaker 3: the journalist knew about it, the Nature journalist, and she

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Speaker 3: still decided to include him like a neutral voice. And

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Speaker 3: when she sent me the part of the article, she

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Speaker 3: removed his quote so that I couldn't see that it

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Speaker 3: was commenting, because otherwise I would have made a comment

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Speaker 3: or something like that. So, I mean, it's all everything

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Speaker 3: they tried to tilt to hide what they have been

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Speaker 3: doing to me, like play down the effects the damage

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Speaker 3: were being, like simply I don't get invited to conference

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Speaker 3: of CONCOT and his set the conferences, and now I

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Speaker 3: don't want to go to set the conferences anymore because

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Speaker 3: I just associated with these aggressive people.

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Speaker 2: I think that I think you think this is a

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Speaker 2: reaction to the content of what you are trying to publish,

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Speaker 2: as opposed to legitimate concern about a personal improprieties by

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Speaker 2: the guy who co wrote the paper with you. I

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Speaker 2: mean it's a it was. It was pushback against you

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Speaker 2: to stifle your voice. Correct.

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Speaker 3: Let me let me be like blunt about this. Like

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Speaker 3: I have another friend of mine here in Sweden. He

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Speaker 3: discovered something called like the Baltic Sea anomaly, and he

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Speaker 3: also discovered our antiqu Crussian submarine. So this Baltic Sea

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Speaker 3: anomaly looks like a crushed UFO. And he had this

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Speaker 3: wonderful company like where that are doing like they are

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Speaker 3: diving for Rex. The same time as he discovers this,

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Speaker 3: he gets a lot of flat from military, from the

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Speaker 3: security police, intelligence services. He gets the tax office for

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Speaker 3: mysterious reason go in and they start like investigating his

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Speaker 3: company and they crash him entirely, and so he lose

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Speaker 3: all the money. He later wins in the highest court

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Speaker 3: against the Swedish state and the tax company that they

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Speaker 3: had treated him badly. So it is all documented that

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Speaker 3: he was right and he never got a penny back.

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Speaker 3: So the damage to his life is still none. The

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Speaker 3: damage to his career his life, and he can't continue

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Speaker 3: explorations of the Baltics. The anomal anymore because of the

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Speaker 3: way how they treated him. And again that didn't come

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Speaker 3: under It wasn't that anyone came and said to him, Hey,

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Speaker 3: you're working on Baltics C anomaly or and that's why

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Speaker 3: we stop you. It just happens by a coincidence in time.

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Speaker 3: And I'm worrying, why did we have that coincidence in

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Speaker 3: time that the same week as we are about to

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Speaker 3: publish this super cool thing, he gets Jeff Marcy gets

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Speaker 3: thrown out from the National Academy of Sciences. And if

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Speaker 3: you look at the Sety community, there is such quite

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Speaker 3: some connections also to the military. So I don't know,

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Speaker 3: how can I know? I don't believe in that there

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Speaker 3: are too many coincidences when there are humans involved.

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Speaker 2: That's Jeff Marcy. Jeff Marcy, you mentioned that he had

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Speaker 2: discovered the first exo planet. He'd written seventy. I mean

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Speaker 2: that's a big deal.

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Speaker 3: That's first exp Planet's like seventy out of hundred exsp

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Speaker 3: that the first set the out of hundred extra planets

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Speaker 3: were discovered by his team and the first planetary system.

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Speaker 3: So he should have shared a nobel price with Michelle

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Speaker 3: Major and the dear kilos in twenty nineteen, of course,

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Speaker 3: but it didn't happen.

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Speaker 2: So they drag up a seventy year old allegation about

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Speaker 2: improprieties personal improprieties and use that to stifle the publication

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Speaker 2: of your paper with him about these anomalies that you

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Speaker 2: had found.

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Speaker 3: Now, I'm a bit confused that they dragged up something

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Speaker 3: like that. Was maybe I think the investigations were in

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Speaker 3: two thousand and five, or I don't know. I wasn't around.

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Speaker 3: I didn't even know Jeff until twenty twenty after the scandal,

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Speaker 3: or twenty nineteen. And he had some investigations at Berkeley

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Speaker 3: in two thousand and five, but once he started a

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Speaker 3: big breakthrough listing programs. So he got one hundred million

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Speaker 3: dollars from Urie Millner to such for extraterrestial intelligence, and

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Speaker 3: three month after someone leaks this internal report to the media.

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Speaker 3: By chance, after he gets all this money to search

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Speaker 3: for ET again, that must be a coincidence that the

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Speaker 3: top of it, after he got huge funds to look

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Speaker 3: for exceterscalepenitence.

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Speaker 2: You know, I'm sure as you as a as a

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Speaker 2: student when you're earning your PhD in astrophysics, you're thinking,

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Speaker 2: this is what I want to do with science is

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Speaker 2: you know, the search for truth and understanding of the

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Speaker 2: world in which we live. You know that the duty,

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Speaker 2: as I've said before, the duty of science, as in journalism,

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Speaker 2: is to investigate the unexplained, not to explain the uninvestigated.

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Speaker 2: Here you are doing what you think science should do

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Speaker 2: is look for evidence, try to understand big mysteries, go

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Speaker 2: after the big questions. I can't imagine for an astrophysicist

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Speaker 2: that there's anything bigger than is there somebody else out

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Speaker 2: there that's the biggest, that's as big as it gets.

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Speaker 2: And there are ingrained interests in these publications, in academia

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Speaker 2: and universities that don't want this taken seriously. I wonder why.

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Speaker 3: I wanted to. I think they are like, first there's

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Speaker 3: a lot of dogma and there's a lot of stigma.

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Speaker 3: But then there are people who are very self serving,

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Speaker 3: like politically that they want to create, like have strong careers,

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Speaker 3: so they get influenced by people about them. They allow

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Speaker 3: themselves to be influenced so that they can get a

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Speaker 3: good career. And I think these people are the most

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Speaker 3: dangerous that we deal with. It's they often can play

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Speaker 3: by a certain politics, but then if they're the leadership changes,

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Speaker 3: they switch politics as well. They will have any flag

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Speaker 3: that gives them what they want career wise. And these

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Speaker 3: people are everywhere, But of course there also a lot

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Speaker 3: of wonderful people, and that's why I'm still around. And

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Speaker 3: it's the wonderful people that kind of make one pick.

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Speaker 3: And I think for me, like I first was very

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Speaker 3: sad about the whole thing. I was so distressed and

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Speaker 3: I was so always under stress, always a tension for

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Speaker 3: two years. But then I realized this was a blessing

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Speaker 3: in disguise because it freed me to work on things

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Speaker 3: that are controversial, like the UFO question. Now it freed

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Speaker 3: me in some ways that I say, Okay, yeah, it's

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Speaker 3: possible that they will be people who will not like

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Speaker 3: what I do, what I say, but it's simply a

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Speaker 3: part of the landscape, and I want to work with

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Speaker 3: what I love. I don't want to be chained. If

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Speaker 3: you look at like even the whole thing. Once scientists

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Speaker 3: try to work like maintain credibility by only working with

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Speaker 3: orthodox feels, they are in a golden cage. In some ways,

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Speaker 3: everything relating to scientific credibility is a Golden Cage because

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Speaker 3: people put themselves there for their good name and reputation

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Speaker 3: and they don't explore the hugely interesting terrain around them.

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Speaker 3: And now, after the thing I had where I was

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Speaker 3: attacked continuously for working with Jeff Marcy, I just say

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Speaker 3: I will work on what I want, I will do

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Speaker 3: the work I want, and I will say what I

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Speaker 3: think and what they want.

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Speaker 2: So it's a separation of some sort with SETI. So

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Speaker 2: I've always thought that SETI is a cool endeavor to

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Speaker 2: look for evidence way out there using the best telescopes

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Speaker 2: we have, And I never thought it needed necessarily to

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Speaker 2: be at odds with UFO world. The UFO investigators, scientists

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Speaker 2: looking for evidence that maybe there's been something closer to

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Speaker 2: us than way way out there in the Solar system somewhere,

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Speaker 2: they didn't have to be at odds.

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Speaker 1: But they are at odds.

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Speaker 2: And people I know there are people in SETI who

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Speaker 2: are interested in UFO data as well, they just don't

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Speaker 2: admit it. And I think a lot of it has

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Speaker 2: to do with where the money comes from. So much

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Speaker 2: of the research money is from government, so much of

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Speaker 2: it comes from Pentagon affiliated groups, that if the Pentagon

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Speaker 2: doesn't want this done, and the US government and key

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Speaker 2: figures there don't want it done, then the research doesn't

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Speaker 2: get funded and it gets discouraged for people like you

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Speaker 2: and Jeff and others.

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Speaker 3: Correct, yes, exactly, But like if I observe, like my

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Speaker 3: little observation is that the individuals who are mostly who

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Speaker 3: have been mostly aggressive on me for working with Jeffs

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Speaker 3: are the same individuals who are mostly aggressive on people

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Speaker 3: taking the UFO topic seriously in the SETI community. So

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Speaker 3: I think there's a lot of political motivations behind while

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Speaker 3: white people are trying to stop the UP research because seriously,

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Speaker 3: why if you can look for aliens far away, why

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Speaker 3: can't you look for them nearby? It makes no sense

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Speaker 3: this near earth stigma that the journals are so scared

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Speaker 3: of even touching anything related to alien artifacts near the Earth,

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Speaker 3: they won't even publish, They will just reject it that

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Speaker 3: the editor's desk, it won't go to review just because

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Speaker 3: of this giant stigma. And now you can see there's

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Speaker 3: an example of a conference. It can show you where

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Speaker 3: they write like, well, they make a techno signature conference.

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Speaker 3: You can look for life everywhere except the UAP topic

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Speaker 3: or UP related topics. Are not welcome and come on

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Speaker 3: if I mean it's the same basic question, why do

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Speaker 3: you put a physical limit on the based on the distance?

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Speaker 2: Making sense?

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Speaker 1: Listen to more Coast to Coast a m. Every weeknight

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