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Speaker 1: Welcome into another Jaguars media round table. We're going into

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Speaker 1: week five the Jags in the Carolina Panthers coming up

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Speaker 1: Sunday at one o'clock at Bank of America Stadium in

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Speaker 1: Uptown Charlotte. J P. Shadick with Mark Long of the

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Speaker 1: Associated Press. What's up? I can't believe it took five

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Speaker 1: weeks from me. Get on your podcast. That tells you

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Speaker 1: where I am at the total point. Not during the

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Speaker 1: regular season this year, we have been doing them every week.

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Speaker 1: So let's just say, let's just say if you did

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Speaker 1: them every week this four times two, that's eight people.

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Speaker 1: So I'm ninth on your batting order, yeah, or Phil's

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Speaker 1: ninth and I'm tent. Well he did ask me first,

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Speaker 1: all right, so I'm I'm I'm ninth, all right, Piling

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Speaker 1: of the Athletic Thanks for coming back. Phil. I'm not

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Speaker 1: gonna complain. I'm happy to be here. Unlike Mark complains

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Speaker 1: about everything, everything, literally everything, it's tongue in cheek complaints.

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Speaker 1: One thing you cannot complain about right now is Leonard

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Speaker 1: for Nett. The way he's playing, the way he's acting

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Speaker 1: off the field. Um, everything's come together, at least so

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Speaker 1: far early in this he's and it broke out of

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Speaker 1: course last week in Denver with the fantastic second half performance,

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Speaker 1: but just week to week dealing with him in the

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Speaker 1: locker room talking to him, this is a totally different guy.

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Speaker 1: It seems like the last year. Yeah, people don't get

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Speaker 1: to see him in the locker room, but that we do.

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Speaker 1: And it's kind of been one of the big uh

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Speaker 1: Knox on Leonard is you know, he's just his His

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Speaker 1: give a blank factor has been next to nothing. He

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Speaker 1: just doesn't didn't never seem to until this year care

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Speaker 1: about us and the job we have to do or

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Speaker 1: the people around him. He was just kind of oblivious

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Speaker 1: to it all. And some of it you wrote it

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Speaker 1: off as as that's Leonard. You know, he's this fun

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Speaker 1: loving guy who makes a lot of jokes and and

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Speaker 1: his the teammates love him, but he doesn't care about

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Speaker 1: anything else outside of you know, football and his family

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Speaker 1: and you know, and and his team. Uh so you

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Speaker 1: kind of wrote up. But this year you've seen a

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Speaker 1: complete one eighty from him and about face in terms

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Speaker 1: of the way he approaches his job. It's just it's

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Speaker 1: you can say maturity all day. I like to point

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Speaker 1: to professionalism. He just looks like a professional. And that's

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Speaker 1: been the knock on him is that he wasn't much

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Speaker 1: of a pro. He was showing up late, falling asleep,

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Speaker 1: and meetings on his cell phone, all these things you

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Speaker 1: heard about not knowing the playbook. It's complete opposite. Now

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Speaker 1: you look out there and you don't see Gardner Minshew

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Speaker 1: having to put him in position every down, you know,

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Speaker 1: And I think the real growth was the end of

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Speaker 1: the game in Denver was unreal. Here's a guy who

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Speaker 1: is playing Peacemaker with Cam Robinson trying. You know, he's

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Speaker 1: he is yelling at Cam, but he's getting He's trying

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Speaker 1: to get Cam to calm down and stop trying to

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Speaker 1: go after guys. Before he would have been the one

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Speaker 1: going after guys. He would have been the one, Hey,

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Speaker 1: let's go, let's get in. He would have been involved.

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Speaker 1: Now for him to see Peacemaker go back three weeks

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Speaker 1: ago with the Doug Marone, Jalen Ramsey spat Leonard Fornette's

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Speaker 1: role in that was he was the guy who came

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Speaker 1: up behind Doug Maron and wasn't screaming at Doug, grabbed

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Speaker 1: Doug and tried to help him get away from the situation. So,

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Speaker 1: you know, whatever, you have to call it, maturity, uh, professionalism.

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Speaker 1: You wonder where where you hope that it it's manifested

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Speaker 1: from a place where he's growing up. But it might

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Speaker 1: also be because the Jags have just pounding him down

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Speaker 1: to the point where he realized it's tew or die

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Speaker 1: at this point, because I mean a few years in though, Phil,

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Speaker 1: I mean, at some point, the performance hasn't been there.

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Speaker 1: He's been banged up, he's had some off the field issues.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the clock's taken a little bit for his

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Speaker 1: contract round here, right, I mean, at some point he's

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Speaker 1: got to turn it around, and maybe this is the

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Speaker 1: turning point. Yeah, I mean I think the Clocks struck

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Speaker 1: midnight on his contract. I mean they took away his

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Speaker 1: remaining guarantees on his rookie contract. And Leonard knows that,

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Speaker 1: he recognizes and he has to that one more misstep

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Speaker 1: could have resulted and being cut and having a lot

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Speaker 1: of money taken not taken away from him, but you know,

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Speaker 1: not coming into his bank account over the next couple

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Speaker 1: of years. So yeah, it would be really interesting. It'll

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Speaker 1: be a fascinating decision, you know, a few months slash

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Speaker 1: years down the line as to whether the Jags do

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Speaker 1: pick up that fifth year option, which uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: for a long time I thought was an absolute slam

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Speaker 1: dunk that they wouldn't. I was writing, you know, back

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Speaker 1: in January that I thought that Leonard fro Nett had

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Speaker 1: played his last game after the whole Texans debacle. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: I go back to to the joint practices in Baltimore,

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Speaker 1: which is when they're light for me sort of came

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Speaker 1: out with Leonard four Net was last year when he

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Speaker 1: was scheduled to speak on Thursdays, it was you know,

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Speaker 1: he'd be milling around in the locker room where he'd

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Speaker 1: be sitting sleeping at his locker and pushing it back

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Speaker 1: and making everybody wait. And it's the kind of stuff

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Speaker 1: that nobody really cares about, you know, the media having

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Speaker 1: to deal with. But it was a fact that was

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Speaker 1: the stuff way to deal with. But in Baltimore, I

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Speaker 1: think it was the second day of the two joint practices,

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Speaker 1: he wasn't scheduled to talk. He was walking off the

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Speaker 1: field and I was just like, hey man, you have

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Speaker 1: a minute to chat. And he sat and chatted for

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Speaker 1: like five six seven minutes something that we would have

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Speaker 1: absolutely never seen from London for net last year, where

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Speaker 1: it just seemed like he had really turned a page. Now,

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Speaker 1: you know, does that change if adversity hits, if you

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Speaker 1: pull a hamstring, or if you pull a quad or

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Speaker 1: you know know, if this two and T record had

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Speaker 1: been ohing four, Are we still seeing the same guy?

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Speaker 1: I think that's a fair question. But all you can

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Speaker 1: judge him off is the actions that you see from

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Speaker 1: him day to day, and so far, I think all

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Speaker 1: signs have been pretty positive. Phil Heilman from the Athletic

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Speaker 1: Mark Long from the Associated Press. This is a media

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Speaker 1: round table um. The Gardner Minshew thing is blown up

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Speaker 1: obviously outside the building. It's it's crazy to see it.

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Speaker 1: It's all over television's everywhere in town. People have shirts

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Speaker 1: and But the football side of this thing, the XS

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Speaker 1: and os part of this, you know, the knock on

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Speaker 1: him coming in was that he couldn't make a lot

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Speaker 1: of the throws. He didn't have a strong arm, and

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Speaker 1: there was a bunch of knocks on him. But I

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Speaker 1: haven't seen him miss a throw like. He can make

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Speaker 1: the throws right. He can go out there obviously go

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Speaker 1: to from the classroom to the field and bring all

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Speaker 1: that with him. But he could execute all these things,

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Speaker 1: at least so far he has. Why was that knock

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Speaker 1: on it? His turn to Dy Westbrook on the last

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Speaker 1: drive was I think the kind of thing that people

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Speaker 1: questioned whether he could make it where it was you know, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know probably what fifteen yard out towards the left

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Speaker 1: sideline and he threw it. Uh, you know, not great

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Speaker 1: coverage from Duke Dawson, former Gator who's bounced around early

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Speaker 1: in his career. But right, yeah, but he has just

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Speaker 1: taken a shot. Yeah, I mean that game winning drive

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Speaker 1: was off to a pretty rough start. He gets hit

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Speaker 1: in the leg and his past goes fluttering towards the sideline.

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Speaker 1: Could have, you know, potentially been intercepted. The next play,

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Speaker 1: I think it was Bradley Chubb or maybe Miller, one

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Speaker 1: of their guys strip Sex and the ball bounces right

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Speaker 1: back to him. He's got the presence of mind to

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Speaker 1: complete a pass. And then uh, there's the rough in

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Speaker 1: the pastor penalty and then yeah, the throad of Westbrook

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Speaker 1: was nice that there's a comeback route to Chris Conley

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Speaker 1: that put them in field goal range. And yeah, just

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Speaker 1: a lot of nice throws. Um. You know, to me,

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Speaker 1: we're not looking at the Kansas City Chiefs offense here.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the Jack's had six points at halftime. So

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Speaker 1: I think you do have to sort of realize that

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Speaker 1: there are still some limitations. But we've seen him multiple

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Speaker 1: times now back in Houston and in Denver that Garner

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Speaker 1: min Whow has an ability to rally his teammates and

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Speaker 1: important moments, and he has the ability to make, you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe not every throw, but certainly enough throws where the

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Speaker 1: defenses can't load the box, where defenses have to take

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Speaker 1: them seriously, and where guys like you know, DJ Chart

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Speaker 1: can start to emerge. Yeah, and you didn't even mention

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Speaker 1: the best throw of the day, which I think is

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Speaker 1: one of the best ones I've seen in my fifteen

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Speaker 1: years on his pet was the where he eluded three

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Speaker 1: defenders at his feet and through the touchdown pass too

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Speaker 1: with Karl Armstead. I thought that was just a fantastic play,

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Speaker 1: and I will remember that one, you know, long before

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Speaker 1: I long after I've left Jacksonville. I just thought that

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Speaker 1: was a fantastic play. It's it showed a lot of moxie,

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Speaker 1: it showed a lot of awareness, keeping his head up

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Speaker 1: eluding three defenders. Um, but what I will say about

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Speaker 1: him is is this is a big three week stretch

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Speaker 1: where he's gonna I mean, he obviously got sacked five

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Speaker 1: times in Denver. Now you go against Carolina and then

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Speaker 1: next week New Orleans. Three just absolutely three of the

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Speaker 1: top defenses. Nobody. I don't think anybody saw this coming.

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Speaker 1: I don't think you've thought. We all thought Denver's defense

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Speaker 1: would be legit with those those ends, but nobody. I

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Speaker 1: don't think anybody thought Carolina's defense be where it's at,

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Speaker 1: And nobody knew where the Saints would be this good.

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Speaker 1: I mean, what the Saints did last week in Denver

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Speaker 1: or in Dallas was was just a work of art

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Speaker 1: defensively against that the high powered Dallas team. So, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, this is an important three week stretch to

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Speaker 1: try to keep him upright, keep him healthy, and see

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Speaker 1: what you can do offensively. But uh, yeah, what he

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Speaker 1: did with the game win driving and really I go back,

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Speaker 1: he should be three and I as a starter in

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Speaker 1: that game. He did everything right at Houston to win

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Speaker 1: that ball game. And you know, whether or not you

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Speaker 1: believe the two point conversion was the right call I

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Speaker 1: probably would have kicked it there, And that's in hindsight

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Speaker 1: at that Even at the time before they missed the

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Speaker 1: two one Collers, I thought they should have kicked it

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Speaker 1: on the road. I get why he did it, but

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Speaker 1: I also from that I didn't like the play call.

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Speaker 1: Even if you did, I didn't want you know, you

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Speaker 1: couldn't run the ball. You know, everybody knows you can't

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Speaker 1: run the ball. They hadn't been able to run the

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Speaker 1: ball to that point, so why are you trying to

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Speaker 1: run the ball there? But anyway, keep the ball on

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Speaker 1: the and Minshoo's hands hot quarterback keeping going over there.

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Speaker 1: But he's been fantastic. Should probably be three and o

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Speaker 1: as a starting co It sounds like we've buried the lead.

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Speaker 1: Do you have an issue with play calling here? Mark?

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Speaker 1: So that play I had an issue with. I didn't

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Speaker 1: have a I didn't have a single issue with the

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Speaker 1: play calling last week. Uh, they found something, saw something

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Speaker 1: at halftime and really really just got Leonard going and

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Speaker 1: exploited the inside of that Denver defense. My favorite player

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Speaker 1: was the fake motion that Deity to the left of

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Speaker 1: fake screen back to the right and then that that

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Speaker 1: was very nice and I think that was better than

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Speaker 1: the than the alude three defenders and throw a touchdown

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Speaker 1: pass on that was a better play call, not a

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Speaker 1: better down, It was a It was a very creative play.

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Speaker 1: That was one of the more creative play calls I've

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Speaker 1: seen in any game this year, or you know, any

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Speaker 1: game in recent memory. I thought, you just don't see

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Speaker 1: guys running that wide open after you know, so much

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Speaker 1: sort of eye candy. It's a lot of moving carts,

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Speaker 1: and you gotta have the protection. And they, you know,

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Speaker 1: to this point they hadn't had a lot of great

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Speaker 1: protection and they got a little bit better protection there.

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Speaker 1: And twelve hits and Josh Stobbs taking some first team

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Speaker 1: reps as we can practice because the needs a little

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Speaker 1: banged up. But I think it'll be okay, I hope.

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Speaker 1: So he's on a roll, right, he'll be fine. He's

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Speaker 1: a gamer, is Yeah, it really does Jalen Ramsey. That's

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Speaker 1: the other big topic around the Jags, right, if you

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Speaker 1: go in that locker room. I don't know if I

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Speaker 1: don't know if it's a huge topic for the guys

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Speaker 1: in the locker room, though, what do you guys, what's

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Speaker 1: the feel of that? And he's not practicing on Wednesday.

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Speaker 1: We'll see how the status goes the rest of the

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Speaker 1: week with the back and all that. What is your

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Speaker 1: general feeling about this thing right now? And what do

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Speaker 1: you think the feeling is in that locker room guys.

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Speaker 1: I mean, my big question is is the back injury legit?

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Speaker 1: How legit is the back injury? I don't think he

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Speaker 1: would have again, knowing Jalen as well as I do,

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Speaker 1: which is not great, but I what I know of Jalen,

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Speaker 1: I don't think he would have missed a game with

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Speaker 1: that team and put that team in, you know, in

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Speaker 1: harm's way essentially by not playing, damaging the team. I

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Speaker 1: don't think he would have done that to his friends,

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Speaker 1: his guys in the locker room if he wasn't legitimately hurts.

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Speaker 1: So I do believe there is some legitimacy to the

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Speaker 1: back nry. But there are a lot of people out

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Speaker 1: there who are calling BS on it, and I get it,

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Speaker 1: and I get it. I you know, I can see

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Speaker 1: where they're coming from. Um, I think this is gonna

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Speaker 1: be a big week, you know. Where where does it?

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Speaker 1: Does he try to fight through this thing? Does he

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Speaker 1: try to play on Thursdays? As you try to practice

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Speaker 1: on Thursday or practice on Friday and get ready for

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Speaker 1: this game. I know this. You know, if this is

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Speaker 1: what people believe, there are people who believe this is

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Speaker 1: his ploy to to force the JAG's hand. Um, if

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Speaker 1: this is it, you know, it's probably genius on his

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Speaker 1: part and his agents part. Honestly, because I don't think

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Speaker 1: you're getting I mean, you're you're, you're you're coming up

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Speaker 1: with an excuse to not practice. I just wanted to win. Well,

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Speaker 1: you're on a team here that could agree. I agree,

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Speaker 1: But that just goes to show you that it's it's

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Speaker 1: not about winning, it's about it's about a uh clash

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Speaker 1: with you know, someone in the building you know you

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Speaker 1: obviously don't have any respect for You've lost respect for him,

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Speaker 1: and you believe he's lost respect for you. It's not

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Speaker 1: like you know, two guys who don't see eye to eye,

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Speaker 1: and you know, nobody knows exactly what was said after

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Speaker 1: that Houston game. Obviously it was something that that rubbed

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Speaker 1: jail in the wrong way. We know that Tom Coughlin

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Speaker 1: can be abrasive. We we've all known that. You talk

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Speaker 1: to anybody who's ever played for him, and you hear that,

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Speaker 1: So it wouldn't be surprising if he, you know, got

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Speaker 1: on him pretty good and Jalen just reacted like millennials react.

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Speaker 1: They're not used to that kind of stuff. I will say,

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Speaker 1: to Jalen's credit, I watched his uh behavior and body

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Speaker 1: language on the bench during the game on Sunday because

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Speaker 1: I was interested to see was this going to be

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Speaker 1: a Leonard for in that situation where he sat on

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Speaker 1: the bench and sort of secluded himself, And that was

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Speaker 1: not the case at all. He was on Tim Walton's

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Speaker 1: hip for pretty much the entire game. He uh, what

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Speaker 1: time the defense came off the field? Uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: he was out there. I think there were a couple

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Speaker 1: of times he was like legitimately like almost drawing up

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Speaker 1: coverages for Trey Herndon a couple of times after Hernon

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Speaker 1: gotten beat. His reaction to Herndon when Herndon knockdown his

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Speaker 1: first past defense, his reaction was fantastic. I mean, it

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Speaker 1: was nobody more excited in that building than Jens. It

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Speaker 1: was certainly a guy who was locked in, So I'll

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Speaker 1: give him credit for that. I'm not a doctor and

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Speaker 1: I'm not close enough to Jalen to know how serious

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Speaker 1: to back injury is. I'm with you in that I

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Speaker 1: do think that his competitiveness, if you were healthy, he

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Speaker 1: would be playing. Maybe that's the completely wrong read, but

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Speaker 1: at least for his actions on the sideline, it looked

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Speaker 1: like somebody who's still locked in, not somebody who's checked

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Speaker 1: out entirely on this organization. And him telling Nate Burlson

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Speaker 1: in that podcast last week that I don't I don't

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Speaker 1: know that if I played my last game for Jackson, Well,

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Speaker 1: that to me was in his indication, his almost his

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Speaker 1: acknowledgment that Okay, this doesn't look like it's going to

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Speaker 1: go the way I wanted to go, and I might

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Speaker 1: be stuck here playing this season, right, which would be

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Speaker 1: good for the Jags. They need him. They're a better

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Speaker 1: team with Jalen Ramsey on the field. There's nobody. No

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Speaker 1: one can tell me any differently, and no one can

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Speaker 1: prove to me any differently. They are a better team

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Speaker 1: when Jalen an No one would argue that. Teams in

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Speaker 1: the LEAGUI yeah, but I mean, yeah, I don't. Yes,

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Speaker 1: no one would argue that. But there are people who

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Speaker 1: believe that the Jags should jettison him and all of

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Speaker 1: his headaches and move on. And I just I don't

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Speaker 1: think that makes any sense at all. And listen, when

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Speaker 1: the owner is involved, shot Con is involved in this,

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Speaker 1: that tells you everything you need. No shot Con, Tony Con.

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Speaker 1: They see this, They see Jalon Ramsey as a pivotal

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Speaker 1: piece of this franchise, a star player they haven't had

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Speaker 1: in their six years of ownership or however many it is.

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Speaker 1: Uh And there's no reason to seven years. How there's

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Speaker 1: no reason to trade him. And unless you know, unless

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Speaker 1: it becomes more of a distraction, I don't think it

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Speaker 1: is a destruction in that locker room. I really don't.

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Speaker 1: I think they court Jalen and they want him on

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Speaker 1: the field, and if it works, it works. If it doesn't,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't. And the way the football games too, which

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Speaker 1: helps two a row winning is the cure. All. Yes, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: how it works. What do you guys got coming up

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Speaker 1: this week? That's a great question. It's early in the week,

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Speaker 1: gives us. I do think that it's interesting that Jags

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Speaker 1: have Christian McCaffrey on the schedule this week, Alvin Kamar

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Speaker 1: on the schedule next week. To the most versatile running

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Speaker 1: backs in the league, sort of contending with that will

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Speaker 1: be really interesting. We saw Royce Freeman from Denver catch

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Speaker 1: a couple of passes, some big, you know, third down

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Speaker 1: passes last week. How do you contain two of the

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Speaker 1: you know, most explosive guys in the league. And I'm

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna gonna try to dig in on on Yunike

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Speaker 1: and got Way maybe and see find out what's going

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Speaker 1: on there. I think he's hurt way worse than he's

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Speaker 1: letting on, and maybe way worse than the team's letting on.

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Speaker 1: The fact that he's still practicing is a testament to him.

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Speaker 1: I think, you know, that's just who he is. Anybody

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Speaker 1: knows him. Yeah, he's just he's I mean, he's he's

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Speaker 1: dog in in in his work, ethic and so. But

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Speaker 1: I might be detrimental to so uh, you know, they're

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Speaker 1: obviously for a player of his caliber to not have

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Speaker 1: a sack through four games is h is stunning and

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Speaker 1: no one saw it coming and it could hurt him,

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Speaker 1: hurt him moving forward. Yeah, he's up against it. I mean,

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Speaker 1: he's he's in playing him that last year the deal

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Speaker 1: Mark Long Associated Press got to see appreciate your time,

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Speaker 1: Philip for having Philip Heilman to The Athletic. Will look

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Speaker 1: forward to reading your guys writing this week. Appreciate it. Guys.

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Speaker 1: Thanks