Speaker 1: This is Gavin Newsom and tune in for more with
Speaker 1: Doctor Phil. Well, look, I appreciate everything you said, but
Speaker 1: I also appreciate the spirit, uh that that behind it,
Speaker 1: and I think, look, it's one of the reasons we
Speaker 1: started this podcast, and it's been really interesting, doctor Phil.
Speaker 1: It's really underscored the nature and you've talked a lot
Speaker 1: about cancel culture and this incapacity to to to be
Speaker 1: willing to engage people you may disagree with and and
Speaker 1: as you say, focus on the things we have in common.
Speaker 1: But it's interesting how quick people are to judge, and
Speaker 1: how quickly we are all judged. I imagine just the
Speaker 1: response you got coming out of that Madison Square Garden rally.
Speaker 1: I imagine just now you're sort of foray with ice
Speaker 1: and maybe just a little bit more into the political realm,
Speaker 1: how quick people are to judge. And so I think
Speaker 1: it's incredibly important because divorce is not an option. We're
Speaker 1: all in this together, and you know, it's becoming more
Speaker 1: and more exhausting, and as you have rightfully highlighted you
Speaker 1: did it in your book. We've got issues the nature
Speaker 1: of social media and algorithms and what's going on in
Speaker 1: terms of how things have become weaponized, and how we
Speaker 1: are increasingly feeling out of control, isolated, disconnected from a
Speaker 1: larger sense of purpose, Meaning all the things you've been
Speaker 1: talking about in your show and the work you've been doing,
Speaker 1: and so just on that, what more can we be doing,
Speaker 1: What can we be doing to soften the edges of
Speaker 1: this discourse and begin the process of being repairs proverbially
Speaker 1: the breach.
Speaker 2: Do you think freedom of speech is under attack?
Speaker 1: I think it is. And I've made this point. One
Speaker 1: of the reasons I have long admired Bill Maher and
Speaker 1: gone on a show a dozen times since my mayor
Speaker 1: days is I didn't like the way he was being
Speaker 1: attacked the freedom of speech, his expression was being attacked
Speaker 1: in my own UC campuses. I've watched cancel culture, never
Speaker 1: been a champion of cancel culture. Of course, I've seen
Speaker 1: it on all sides. We saw with bud Light, we
Speaker 1: saw it with Target last year. You know, it occurs.
Speaker 1: You know there's boycotts all the time, coming from both
Speaker 1: prisms and the political parties. But I think I think
Speaker 1: it's out of control, and I think it's something we
Speaker 1: need to push back again. So we need to own
Speaker 1: up to.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems to be worse in California than you know.
Speaker 2: I've moved back to Texas, and you know, no place
Speaker 2: is perfect. But I see things like, what was it
Speaker 2: Berkeley where Ann Coulter got canceled? They said it was
Speaker 2: for security concerns. You can always have security.
Speaker 1: But that my litt guy, I can't remember his name.
Speaker 1: I remember sort of the peak of that cancer culture.
Speaker 2: You know, why do you think that is? When I
Speaker 2: went to school a long time ago, but we always
Speaker 2: if somebody was coming that we disagreed with, I always
Speaker 2: wanted to go here what they had to say, so
Speaker 2: I had ammunition to debate them with or their positions with.
Speaker 2: And you never grow until you disprove yourself, until you
Speaker 2: find something wrong with the way you look at it.
Speaker 2: But it seems like in California we've got the Heckler's veto.
Speaker 2: It's like boo them down or block them from coming.
Speaker 2: And I see it at Berkeley, U C, L a
Speaker 2: USC and it just seems like, how are we ever
Speaker 2: going to broaden our perspectives? If we don't get out
Speaker 2: of the bubble and at least listen to the other side,
Speaker 2: you may find out that's exactly why I don't agree
Speaker 2: with that, sob exactly how to hear them to do it.
Speaker 1: I couldn't agree with you. More needs to be called out.
Speaker 1: I've been trying to do what I can on that.
Speaker 2: I mean, be candidate.
Speaker 1: That's why I've been calling out all these book bands.
Speaker 1: Two hundred and forty books and titles were banned last
Speaker 1: year in this country. I mean, we're censoring, you know,
Speaker 1: speech in the boardroom, not just in the classroom. You've
Speaker 1: got folks are rewriting history. You've talked a lot about that,
Speaker 1: but on both sides of the aisle. I mean they
Speaker 1: were trying to One textbook in Florida tried to take
Speaker 1: out Rosa Park's race and said, oh no, she was
Speaker 1: just a woman who wanted to move, needed to move
Speaker 1: her seat. So I think we have to own up
Speaker 1: to this. And I think again, there's plenty of plenty
Speaker 1: of fingers point or at least twenty people that we
Speaker 1: can point to, but all of us need to look
Speaker 1: in the mirror on this issue.
Speaker 2: I agree with you as California taking a position on
Speaker 2: transgender athletes. I hadn't seen what the latest.
Speaker 1: Well it did in twenty and thirteen ind Team Governor
Speaker 1: Brown signed a bill allowing for people to participate. As
Speaker 1: you know, that issue is very raw and emotional, and
Speaker 1: it's obviously very pointed this moment because of some state championships.
Speaker 1: There was two bills in the California legislature, doctor Phil
Speaker 1: just a few weeks ago. Neither got out of the
Speaker 1: committee to change that rule, so it currently is law
Speaker 1: in the state of California and cif that that does
Speaker 1: the innercollegiate founded, you know, does all the sports. They're
Speaker 1: trying to find some accommodation that addresses the legitimate concerns
Speaker 1: around fairness and I say legitimate concerns about fairness and
Speaker 1: make sure that those that may have been displaced because
Speaker 1: they were outperformed by a transgender athlete I have the
Speaker 1: opportunity to still participate and be recognized for that participation.
Speaker 1: We're also just trying to balance some grace, some humility,
Speaker 1: some humanity, particularly with transgender youth that just want to
Speaker 1: survive and don't want to be belittled and demeaned at
Speaker 1: the same time. So a very tough issue, and I
Speaker 1: know you've tackled that issue. I think you've done it
Speaker 1: reasonably thoughtfully. I think you've tried to find the nuances here,
Speaker 1: but it's incredibly difficult issue. And I say this as
Speaker 1: someone who's been an advocate for trans writes, but I
Speaker 1: do not think it's fair these athletic competitions, and I've
Speaker 1: made that point of view very very public Well.
Speaker 2: This is one of the things where I say that
Speaker 2: I believe that activists are pushing an agenda. And I've
Speaker 2: had so many transgender individuals on the show over the
Speaker 2: last twenty five years, and I can tell you that
Speaker 2: they have said to me on the air and off
Speaker 2: mostly off the air, that they'd wish those people would
Speaker 2: shut up. These shrill activists that are pushing these extreme positions.
Speaker 2: They're not speaking for us, they're not speaking for the
Speaker 2: community at large. And they say, look, we're living our
Speaker 2: lives and there are enough challenges as it is without
Speaker 2: them pushing these extreme controversial issues that we don't particularly
Speaker 2: ascribe to. They're not helping us. That's something that they
Speaker 2: are just trying to rewrite biology on or they're trying
Speaker 2: to make a battleground, and they do it effectively. I
Speaker 2: had Professor Carol Hooven on from university at Harvard University
Speaker 2: and She didn't even do the research. She was just reporting.
Speaker 2: Did a meta analysis on I think it was fifty
Speaker 2: plus studies of others that had looked at the biological
Speaker 2: markers to see whether or not you could balance the
Speaker 2: playing field among elit athletes. And she looked at if
Speaker 2: you have testosterone blockers, if you have hormone suppression therapy,
Speaker 2: and for the required two years before and after poverty,
Speaker 2: looked puberty, looked at every possible way, and the meta
Speaker 2: conclusion for good methodology, with good in right number of subjects,
Speaker 2: and they concluded you just can't get there. You, I mean,
Speaker 2: even if it's ten percent difference in swimming competition among
Speaker 2: the lead athletes as you know everything, they measure that
Speaker 2: by hundreds of a second off a fingernail touching the wall. Uh,
Speaker 2: and in a four lap race ten percent. They can
Speaker 2: be down there kicking off the wall and they're standing
Speaker 2: there with their arms crossed waiting for him to make
Speaker 2: the last lamp.
Speaker 1: Now, it wasn't one of the what wasn't, And forgive me,
Speaker 1: it wasn't. She admonished by the administration over there as
Speaker 1: well for just concluding.
Speaker 2: Those completely driven down of the university. Yeah, they're transphobic, Yeah,
Speaker 2: spawning hate speech.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we had well, doctor, I trust me, I know
Speaker 1: a thing or two about this. I expressed my point
Speaker 1: of view. I lost a few. I don't need to
Speaker 1: went on the public therapy session here, but I lost
Speaker 1: some good friends. I mean they're just then won't talk
Speaker 1: to me. They're done, And you know, I appreciate they
Speaker 1: felt hurt. They felt that point of view was, you know,
Speaker 1: somehow diminishing. I I someone has been an advocate that
Speaker 1: I put up against any other elected official. I mean,
Speaker 1: I have a very strong record, as you know. I
Speaker 1: think the first time I was on your show, it
Speaker 1: was was on the issue of lgbt rights, and I've
Speaker 1: been an advocate for decades and decades, but on the
Speaker 1: issue of sports and and what you just you know,
Speaker 1: you laid out as it relates to many different factors
Speaker 1: that are unique and regardless of puberty blockers. I just
Speaker 1: think this issue we have to address and h and
Speaker 1: to not address, we are in denial.
Speaker 2: Well that's a good point, because I remember when you
Speaker 2: were there and you and I agreed on that we
Speaker 2: were both advocates for LGBTQ rights. But this is this
Speaker 2: is a bridge too far. This is you have these
Speaker 2: these elite athletes. These are kids that get up oftentimes
Speaker 2: an hour or two before school. I mean they're up
Speaker 2: at four and five o'clock in the morning working out
Speaker 2: before school four years oh yeah, and then all of
Speaker 2: a sudden somebody steps in and bumps them out of
Speaker 2: the competition, and it's I hate to see that. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, which I got four young kids, all athletes, wife
Speaker 1: who has played for the junior national soccer team. I
Speaker 1: got into college, only got into a four year college
Speaker 1: because of sports. And it's many ways the reason I'm here.
Speaker 1: So I deeply appreciate how resident this issue and passionate
Speaker 1: this issue is. At the same time, you know, it's
Speaker 1: I humbly submit doctor that I think it's been weaponized
Speaker 1: by some groups. I'm not suggesting by any stretch you have.
Speaker 1: I think I've listened to you on this topic, and
Speaker 1: I think you've tried to be very thoughtful on it.
Speaker 1: Other though, are a little less thoughtful and have used
Speaker 1: this in a way that I don't think advanced the
Speaker 1: larger call that I think you and I are calling for.
Speaker 1: Just that's just finding our common humanity and try to
Speaker 1: unify with as you suggest common sense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And the sad thing is, I think you've it's
Speaker 2: kind of identity politics. If you don't agree with everything,
Speaker 2: you're immediately labeled transphobic. And I think they lose some
Speaker 2: very strong advocates by throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
Speaker 1: Well, and I'd be in that category. And anyone who
Speaker 1: suggests that that is they don't know who I am,
Speaker 1: what I've done, And so I'm very sensitive the point
Speaker 1: you just made, and I certainly appreciate it, just on
Speaker 1: the issues of broader issues that I think just in
Speaker 1: the spirit of this conversation, you know, when you wrote
Speaker 1: this book, We've Got issues, what was was this was
Speaker 1: this sort of the gateway to the new media a company?
Speaker 1: Was this sort of the transition book? What I mean,
Speaker 1: you haven't transitioned on your passion for family as sort
Speaker 1: of the core unit. Uh and and faith as well,
Speaker 1: which I appreciate your commitment to faith, including your new
Speaker 1: role under the Trump administration. Just tell us a little
Speaker 1: bit more in the spirit of of of that book,
Speaker 1: what we what we were trying to achieve.
Speaker 2: You know, I I've I've always thought, you know, it's
Speaker 2: funny they they talk about the general category of talk show,
Speaker 2: and it's it's really interesting that it's if you're going
Speaker 2: to be successful, they really should probably call it listening show,
Speaker 2: because if you don't listen to your audience and let
Speaker 2: them tell you what you need to focus on, you're
Speaker 2: not going to last very long. And we always refer
Speaker 2: to Hollywood is a thirteen week town, and if you
Speaker 2: get thirteenth weeks in Hollywood, you're lucky. And you know,
Speaker 2: I was on for twenty one years, and they wanted
Speaker 2: me to renew for three more. When I said no,
Speaker 2: I'm going to go do my own thing, and there
Speaker 2: was a difference because a cross those twenty one years.
Speaker 2: Very unusually, I owned my own show, which is you
Speaker 2: probably know that's very rare in Hollywood. The network likes
Speaker 2: to own the show. But I owned my own show.
Speaker 2: So I did thirty eight hundred shows and I owned
Speaker 2: them lock Stock and Beryl, so that whole library is
Speaker 2: something I own, and most of those shows are pretty
Speaker 2: evergreen and across time. I had a great staff, and
Speaker 2: for the whole twenty one years, I had one executive producer.
Speaker 2: I had you know, five supervising producers that were there
Speaker 2: pretty much the whole time. I had the same seven
Speaker 2: cameramen for twenty one years. For god, I've had the
Speaker 2: same secretary or they changed what they call them across
Speaker 2: the years. She's been with me forty five years, So
Speaker 2: I mean I've had the same team around me. I'm
Speaker 2: so blessed to have them. And things change, Governor, think
Speaker 2: about this. I started in two and the first text
Speaker 2: message had never been sent when I started. And think
Speaker 2: how much things have changed in like nine is when
Speaker 2: they started dropping smartphones on all of us. And I
Speaker 2: think that's the biggest change in our civilization since the
Speaker 2: Industrial Revolution. And I know there were kind of four
Speaker 2: industrial revolutions kind of jammed together there, but I think
Speaker 2: this was the biggest change since mechanization.
Speaker 1: And by the way, just speaking of jam together, I
Speaker 1: remember being jammed together right there at the Moscone Center
Speaker 1: in San Francisco in January of two thousand and seven
Speaker 1: when Steve Jobs comes out with some damn device. Little
Speaker 1: did we know, but what hit I'll never forget. It
Speaker 1: wasn't the device. It was that damn app store in
Speaker 1: July of two thousand and eight, that, to your point,
Speaker 1: changed everything in more ways.
Speaker 2: On more days, well, you know, kids were going through
Speaker 2: life like this, and then all of a sudden, they
Speaker 2: were going through like this.
Speaker 1: And.
Speaker 2: I and we listen, and for example, the words cyber
Speaker 2: and bully had never been used together in the same
Speaker 2: sentence because there was no such thing. And then all
Speaker 2: of a sudden, I had to start dealing with cyber bullying.
Speaker 2: And in fact, I went to Capitol Hill. They asked
Speaker 2: me to come testify on reauthorization of the Elementary and
Speaker 2: Secondary Education Act, and a lot of my testimony was about,
Speaker 2: you have to start allocating some funds to dealing with
Speaker 2: cyber bullying because it's become Bullies used to be in
Speaker 2: the lunch room or the gym or the bus docks,
Speaker 2: but now these bullies follow the children home. They can't
Speaker 2: get away from it. And we have to start educating
Speaker 2: our teachers and start making preparations to deal with this
Speaker 2: because kids are killing themselves and online predators are getting
Speaker 2: to our children. And so, you know, it started evolving
Speaker 2: and changing, and and I had to evolve and change
Speaker 2: with it. And I remember the first interview I ever
Speaker 2: gave about the doctor phil Show, Roger King, who was,
Speaker 2: you know, the biggest force in syndication. He asked me
Speaker 2: one day, without giving me any warning, he's going to
Speaker 2: make a sizzle reel to go out and sell the show.
Speaker 2: And he said, okay, Doc, what's the show going to
Speaker 2: be about? And I'm like a little caught short. And
Speaker 2: I remember saying, I'm going to talk about things that
Speaker 2: matter to people who care. And I wanted to deliver
Speaker 2: common sense, usable information to people's homes every day for free.
Speaker 2: And ir'd argue with that, if that doesn't work, then
Speaker 2: I was busy when you when you called me, you know,
Speaker 2: I have and and I followed that formula all along,
Speaker 2: and when I got when I sat down to write
Speaker 2: We've Got Issues, it was in reaction to hearing my
Speaker 2: audience move. I think that's my eleventh book or tenth book.
Speaker 2: I said I was going to write another book, and
Speaker 2: then I wrote that one, and it was from listening
Speaker 2: to them, and they were becoming much more socially conscious.
Speaker 2: Whereas you know, early on I was focusing on marriage
Speaker 2: and family and individual psychological functioning and all of those
Speaker 2: sorts of individual issues. But I saw it changed to
Speaker 2: start to include things like cyberbullying and predators and online
Speaker 2: scams and things like that. And then of late I
Speaker 2: saw him start to really become much more socially conscious
Speaker 2: about psychosocial issues. And I think it's because they were
Speaker 2: on the internet all the time. They were reading things that,
Speaker 2: you know, eight nine years earlier, they just weren't available
Speaker 2: to read. And that's when I say, I started being
Speaker 2: aware that like some let's say you had some crazy
Speaker 2: conspiracy theories some guy in Omaha or something, well, that
Speaker 2: wouldn't spread very far because he didn't have the ability
Speaker 2: to reach anyone. But it's estimated right now that there
Speaker 2: are between five and ten thousand cults acting in the
Speaker 2: United States of America because they operate online, they solicit
Speaker 2: money online, they get follows online. Then they might have
Speaker 2: an annual meeting and recruit people in the real world
Speaker 2: to come to some compound or whatever. And so I
Speaker 2: started seeing how people were concerned about what was going
Speaker 2: on at school and what was being taught at school.
Speaker 2: Was critical race theory being taught, should it be taught,
Speaker 2: Should parents be notified if their children were wanting to
Speaker 2: change their pronouns? And there were pros and cons about that.
Speaker 2: I think parents know their kids the best and deserve
Speaker 2: to know what's going on with them. But people react
Speaker 2: to that, like there's this massive movement in the schools
Speaker 2: to recruit people children into transgenderism. That's just not true.
Speaker 2: It is a minuscule number of cases in which is happening,
Speaker 2: and they talk like there's this huge recruitment. It isn't true.
Speaker 2: I do think parents should be involved, and those on
Speaker 2: the other side of the issue say, well, there are
Speaker 2: a lot of parents who don't react well to that,
Speaker 2: and so the kids can get kicked to the curb
Speaker 2: or whatever if they take that home. Well, that's why
Speaker 2: we have the Department of Child and Family Services, That's
Speaker 2: why we have these social services to support that if
Speaker 2: they got some mouth breather parent who doesn't stand by
Speaker 2: their child or whatever. So there are two sides to
Speaker 2: the issue. I get that. But they weren't talking about
Speaker 2: these things before for and now they were, and that's
Speaker 2: that's what moved me to us. We've got issues. We've
Speaker 2: got issues and what's going on in the school. We've
Speaker 2: got issues regarding our economy, and people talk about we
Speaker 2: have this inequality of income. I think the problem is
Speaker 2: we have a quality of income. If you look at
Speaker 2: all the giveaway programs and I hear people talking about
Speaker 2: they want a quality of outcome, the quality of opportunity.
Speaker 1: Yeah no, those are things that found me out on
Speaker 1: the outcome side. Yeah No, it's about the opportunity. We
Speaker 1: can talk about some of the tax breaks as well,
Speaker 1: some of the carried interest is on those subsidies as well. Look,
Speaker 1: there's so much doctor to talk about, and I appreciate
Speaker 1: the spirit to which you've engaged with me in our eyes.
Speaker 1: And one of the things I loved about your book,
Speaker 1: which I did have a chance to read. But more importantly,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of good life lessons in there. And
Speaker 1: one of the one of those statements that you made
Speaker 1: in the book that sort of spoke to me is
Speaker 1: be who you are on purpose, which is a good
Speaker 1: way to describe you, this notion of intentionality. But I
Speaker 1: think that's an important life lesson is to be authentic,
Speaker 1: learn from don't follow others, have some humility and grace,
Speaker 1: but stand on your ground, but also recognize we need
Speaker 1: to find common ground. And I hope we found a
Speaker 1: little bit today and I appreciate your efforts to try
Speaker 1: to find more of that with Merritt Street Media.
Speaker 2: Well, I appreciate having the opportunity to talk about these things.
Speaker 2: I think, like I say, you and I might be
Speaker 2: on the different side of certain issues and the same
Speaker 2: side on certain issues, but I think if people could
Speaker 2: sit down and have civil conversations like this, I mean,
Speaker 2: that's what it's all about. To me. I think it's
Speaker 2: important to do and I'm I'm glad you're doing this podcast.
Speaker 2: I think people get to hear from you and get
Speaker 2: to know you better, and I think it's I think
Speaker 2: people are interested in doing that and in knowing you,
Speaker 2: and I think it's a courageous thing to do, because
Speaker 2: when you open up an unscripted conversation like this, that's
Speaker 2: a that's a courageous thing to do. It's not campaign speak,
Speaker 2: it's it's just it's just letting people get to know you.
Speaker 2: And you dodged my question. Are you going to run
Speaker 2: in twenty.
Speaker 1: Eight that's face will determine that. But we'll see doctor.
Speaker 1: I'mse you know better than anybody as a former California residence.
Speaker 1: I got my hand full in the next year and
Speaker 1: a half couple of years.
Speaker 2: You're not ruling it out, I don't.
Speaker 1: I mean, you're not rolling anything out out about your
Speaker 1: future either, So we'll leave it at that. I appreciate
Speaker 1: you spend any time and UH, and I'm very grateful,
Speaker 1: particularly uh, particularly considering where the heck you are, UH
Speaker 1: and all the other folks that are there that are
Speaker 1: buying for your time and attention. So thank you.
Speaker 2: Anytime, anytime I can spend time with you, I'm I'm
Speaker 2: proud to do it, on here to do it and UH.
Speaker 2: I'll be inviting you to be on my podcast soon
Speaker 2: and we'll talk about that and UH and have you
Speaker 2: weigh in on some uh some big issues. And I
Speaker 2: hope we can do I hope we can do this
Speaker 2: again and do it soon.
Speaker 1: I look forward to it.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Governor, Thank you best to you