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Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the

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Speaker 1: Thing from iHeart Radio. Over the last few weeks, you've

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Speaker 1: heard from some of our staff as they showcase their

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Speaker 1: favorite episodes from our archives. Now it's time to hear mine.

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Speaker 1: Since conservation and the enduring character of New York are

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Speaker 1: topics close to my heart, I wanted to share with

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Speaker 1: you an episode with someone fighting the good fight.

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Speaker 2: Andrew Berman.

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Speaker 1: Berman is the executive director of Village Preservation, a nonprofit

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Speaker 1: that works to document, celebrate, and preserve historical and significant

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Speaker 1: buildings in downtown New York. Named one of the one

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Speaker 1: hundred most powerful people in real Estate by The New

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Speaker 1: York Observer, Berman is a lifelong New Yorker whose work

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Speaker 1: led the charge against development plans by NYU and Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump and secured landmark protection for over one thousand buildings.

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Speaker 1: We'll have an update with Andrew Berman later in this episode.

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Speaker 1: We began my twenty fifteen conversation with Andrew Berman discussing

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Speaker 1: the One that got Away, the one building he wasn't

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Speaker 1: able to save that still haunts him.

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Speaker 3: You know, this is gonna sound sort of strange, but

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Speaker 3: one of my personal favorites that we lost. Was this

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Speaker 3: beautiful building called the Tunnel Garage, which, believe it or not,

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Speaker 3: was a parking garage which you would never think who

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Speaker 3: would care about a parking garage. It was one of

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Speaker 3: the first purpose built parking garages in New York. It

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Speaker 3: was this beautiful Art Deco building that had a medallion

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Speaker 3: on it that was an image of a model t

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Speaker 3: Ford emerging from the Holland Tunnel, which hadn't even yet

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Speaker 3: been built. When this tunnel, which was built near the

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Speaker 3: entrance to the Holland Tunnel, where was this. This was

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Speaker 3: on the corner of Broome Street and Thompson Street, so

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Speaker 3: sort of at the edge of soho the South Village.

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Speaker 3: Beautiful building. I mean it really, if there's a parking

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Speaker 3: garage anywhere on Earth that people would raize about, it

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Speaker 3: was this one. And it had been on sort of

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Speaker 3: lists for years of a building to be saved. A

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Speaker 3: developer came along and bought it and said, you know,

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Speaker 3: I just want to tear it down and build a

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Speaker 3: slightly larger condominium building. Here.

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Speaker 2: How many stories eight stories? How many units?

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Speaker 3: I think about thirty or so, you know, a pretty

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Speaker 3: a bland, you know, sort of you'd never look at

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Speaker 3: it a building, you never look at it twice.

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Speaker 2: What's another example, Well.

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Speaker 3: Here's one where sort of the opposite. There was a

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Speaker 3: vacant lot at the northern end of the Greenwich Village

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Speaker 3: Historic District and there was a plan to develop it,

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Speaker 3: which we had no objections to. You know, vacant lots

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Speaker 3: are there to be developed. But the developer put forward

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Speaker 3: a proposal for this thirteen story curving, entirely glass walled

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Speaker 3: building in the Greenwich Village Historic District and we thought

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Speaker 3: that's ludicrous, that would never never be approved. What does

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Speaker 3: that have to do with the Greenwich Village Historic District.

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Speaker 3: The notion is new development in these areas should kind

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Speaker 3: of fit the character. They don't have to mimic it.

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Speaker 3: It doesn't have to be some bo town, some compatibility.

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Speaker 3: The Commission unanimously approved it, which we were really taken

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Speaker 3: aback by.

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Speaker 1: What's one that was a tremendous victory for you Where's

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Speaker 1: Where's something where you guys really fought and you scored.

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Speaker 3: I'd say one of the ones that we're most proudest

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Speaker 3: of is the part of Greenwich Village south of Washington Square,

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Speaker 3: what we often call the South Village the part of

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Speaker 3: Greenwich Village that everybody associates with, you know, the folk Revival,

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Speaker 3: the beat Nicks in the nineteen fifties and nineteen sixties.

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Speaker 3: Bleaker McDougal. That area amazingly was not protected by landmark protections.

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Speaker 3: Any of those buildings could have been demolished and replaced

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Speaker 3: with pretty hitty beach in New York. Yes, very much so.

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Speaker 3: And after really fifty years of people trying to get

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Speaker 3: that area of landmarked, we were able to get it

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Speaker 3: landmarked in two stage shake. It took thousands of people

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Speaker 3: really coming together and pushing the city. One part of

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Speaker 3: it is we actually had to almost sort of blackmail

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Speaker 3: the city. They wanted to get an area adjacent to

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Speaker 3: that rezoned as basically a sort of a stop to

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Speaker 3: a developer, Trinity real Estate in this case, and we

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Speaker 3: pushed the city council to say, we won't approve the

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Speaker 3: rezoning that you the city want, unless you move ahead

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Speaker 3: with this landmarking that the community has been asking for

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Speaker 3: for years. So we really kind of backed them into

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Speaker 3: a corner. And to be honest, we sort of used

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Speaker 3: election year politics as a bit of a cudgel. You know,

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Speaker 3: people were trying to look like they were being friendly

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Speaker 3: to the community. So we were able to make them

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Speaker 3: do something that they had not wanted to do and

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Speaker 3: had been unwilling to do for years.

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Speaker 2: What area do you live in yourself?

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Speaker 3: I actually live in Hill's Kitchen, so I'm a bit

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Speaker 3: further to the north. But I'm a lifelong New Yorker.

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Speaker 3: I've worked in the village. I grew up in the Bronx,

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Speaker 3: but I've been working in the village and on the

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Speaker 3: West Side of Manhattan since for over twenty years.

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Speaker 2: Now, where'd you go to schools?

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Speaker 3: I went to Bronx High School of Science, so I've

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Speaker 3: lived in New York my whole life.

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Speaker 2: What about college? Where did you go?

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Speaker 3: I went to Wesleyan University. Well, do you study art

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Speaker 3: history with a focus on architecture and urban planning?

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Speaker 1: Talk about, if you would, what happened to Christine Quinn

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Speaker 1: with the Chelsea Market, because of my understanding is correct,

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Speaker 1: that was in her district. Yes, And I want to

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Speaker 1: be very clear that during that political race, I endorsed

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Speaker 1: Deblasio and worked for Deblasio and did not support Quinn.

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Speaker 1: And this is not, you know, to bash Quinn at all,

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Speaker 1: But describe what happened in that Chelsea Market thing and

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Speaker 1: what you think was going on from pressures that were

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Speaker 1: on her.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, so you know, Chelsea Market is this old

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Speaker 3: industrial complex built by Nabisco in Chelsea that was a

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Speaker 3: Nibisco factory. Bisco Factory is where the oreo was invented.

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Speaker 3: It was a bakery. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And who developed into the current Chelsea Market how long ago?

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Speaker 3: It was originally another group of people, including a guy

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Speaker 3: named Irwin Cohen, and that was in the late nineteen

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Speaker 3: nineties that had been sitting there basically abandoned, and he

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Speaker 3: came up with this idea that everybody thought was crazy

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Speaker 3: at the time because this was a real backwater fifteen

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Speaker 3: years ago, of turning it into this huge retail market

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Speaker 3: with offices and things like that, I mean.

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Speaker 2: The food equivalent of a show.

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Speaker 1: Yes.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and it was wildly successful. You know, the neighborhood

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Speaker 3: around it transformed. It's a huge building. It's a beautiful

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Speaker 3: old building, but it's a huge building. They have above

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Speaker 3: they did not have air rights up above, and that

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Speaker 3: that's that's where the key comes in with this. So

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Speaker 3: they wanted to build basically two towers on top of

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Speaker 3: this lovely old building, but they couldn't because they had

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Speaker 3: no development.

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Speaker 2: On top of the eight stories that are already.

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Speaker 3: There, on top of the building that already exists. So

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Speaker 3: they came to the city and they said, we want

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Speaker 3: you to rezone us to give us.

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Speaker 2: These developed stories. Did they want they Originally.

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Speaker 3: It was going to be the addition was going to

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Speaker 3: go up to something like two hundred and fifty feet

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Speaker 3: in the air or something like that. I mean huge,

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Speaker 3: and one on the west end, one on the stories. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: huge building, huge building. And you know, at this point

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Speaker 3: Quinn had already kind of shown herself to be very

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Speaker 3: willing to be accommodating to developers, so we knew this

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Speaker 3: was going to be an uphill battle at best. Although

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Speaker 3: Chelsea was where she was from and a lot of

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Speaker 3: the people who were very adamantly opposed to it were

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Speaker 3: people she'd known and worked closely with for years, we

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Speaker 3: were opposed to it as well, and she did eventually

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Speaker 3: approve it. A slightly scaled back version made it a

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Speaker 3: little less little less bad.

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Speaker 2: As the work started already.

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Speaker 3: No, and it's not been clear to us why they

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Speaker 3: haven't moved ahead yet, but they have all the approval,

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Speaker 3: so it's really up to them to go any time

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Speaker 3: that they want. But this was definitely a disappointment. And

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Speaker 3: what was particularly disappointing was that there were commitments that

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Speaker 3: were quote unquote made as part of this approval about

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Speaker 3: how it would have to remain all independent businesses, there

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Speaker 3: couldn't be chain stores and all these other kinds of things,

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Speaker 3: which it turned out none of these agreements were enforceable.

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Speaker 3: It was really just sort of window dressing to this

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Speaker 3: approval that the city gave them. And that's disappointing when

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Speaker 3: you see things like that happen. When do buildings need

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Speaker 3: to come down? Things have to change, We need to

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Speaker 3: make room for more people. For you, oh, it's absolutely reality,

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Speaker 3: and you know we would never do you acknowledge that

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Speaker 3: one you wanted to save ultimately didn't need to be saved.

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Speaker 3: I'll give you an example. There's areas of our neighborhoods

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Speaker 3: where we've fought for new zoning that we thought would

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Speaker 3: encourage good development as opposed to bad developments, which meant

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Speaker 3: the expectation was things will get built.

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Speaker 2: Yes, give us an example of an area where this

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Speaker 2: came into play.

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Speaker 3: For instance, in the East Village, we working with a coalition,

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Speaker 3: we were able to get almost the entire East Village rezoned.

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Speaker 3: So the old zoning would have encouraged big, tall towers,

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Speaker 3: it would have encouraged building things like dormitories and hotels.

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Speaker 1: Believe it or not, but as an NYU, that's where

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Speaker 1: NYU went to build a lot of their.

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Speaker 3: Dormitories along Third Avenue in that area. Yes, and we

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Speaker 3: didn't want to see NYU take over the East Village,

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Speaker 3: so we pushed for and got a rezoning that said, yes,

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Speaker 3: there can be new development here, but the size and

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Speaker 3: scale of it is going to be more like what

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Speaker 3: you think of the East Village. Seven story buildings, six

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Speaker 3: story buildings. This is what zoning does. You can get

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Speaker 3: these what are called contextual zoning disc that says you

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Speaker 3: can build but to a certain height, certain number of

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Speaker 3: square feet, things of that nature. So we've seen a

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Speaker 3: lot of developments go up in the East Village under

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Speaker 3: this new zoning that are so much more in character

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Speaker 3: with the neighborhood than what would have been built under

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Speaker 3: the old zoning. So we weren't pushing there to say

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Speaker 3: no new buildings or nothing can ever be torn down,

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Speaker 3: but that there should be new buildings, but it should

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Speaker 3: really reinforce the character of the neighborhood. Just around the

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Speaker 3: corner from our office, there was a huge parking lot

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Speaker 3: that was just built on with an eight or nine

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Speaker 3: story building. Right next door to it is a dorm

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Speaker 3: that NYU built a couple of years earlier. That's twenty

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Speaker 3: six stories. There have been quite a few new buildings

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Speaker 3: closer to the traditional campus, but this will be a

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Speaker 3: whole additional campus for the university.

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Speaker 1: Do you feel like the city you turn around one day,

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Speaker 1: you know, we have another subway tunnel, so we have

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Speaker 1: water tunnels that are coming in. I mean, the city

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Speaker 1: is constantly, constantly, constantly being changed. And if you had

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Speaker 1: one wish, I mean, I'm sure you have a laundry

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Speaker 1: and things. What's one wish of how you'd like things

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Speaker 1: to change in the next twenty to thirty years, you.

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Speaker 3: Know, I mean, I think the biggest pressing issue facing

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Speaker 3: New York is ensuring that it stays a place that's

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Speaker 3: affordable and accessible for a broad range of people. So

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Speaker 3: I'd say, if I had one wish for the city,

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Speaker 3: it would be that that somehow we could it could

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Speaker 3: be a place where, you know, sort of the most successful,

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Speaker 3: you know, innovators and zillionaires can live there, and poor

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Speaker 3: working folks and middle class people who are you know,

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Speaker 3: sort of raising kids or starting out or living on

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Speaker 3: their own or sort of whatever, and everybody in between,

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Speaker 3: you know, the immigrants, the longtime residents.

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Speaker 1: And see some of the steps that were taken to

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Speaker 1: allow for like Mitchell Lama that's.

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Speaker 2: Dying, that's.

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Speaker 3: Up in Mitchellama Housing, and it's it's tragic.

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Speaker 1: For those who don't know who were listening that don't

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Speaker 1: know what Mitchell Llama Housing was. This was an attempt

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Speaker 1: back then to have the city develop property where developers

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Speaker 1: would build affordable housing and manage it as affordable housing.

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Speaker 1: I'm being very shorthand with this, and manage it as

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Speaker 1: affordable housing for a given period of time, like thirty

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Speaker 1: years or something, and then after a certain period of time,

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Speaker 1: it would slowly evolve, if you will, into or evolve

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Speaker 1: into private housing. They would sell it as condominiums. And

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Speaker 1: right now we're hitting that place where.

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Speaker 3: Especially in Manhattan, very few of them are left.

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Speaker 2: A lot of them. Mitchellama's rolling over now to private.

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Speaker 3: Co kindominiams, which is really changing the city.

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Speaker 1: But New Yorkers have resigned themselves to the fact that

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Speaker 1: affordable housing itself, just like paythons, is a thing of

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Speaker 1: the past. And now more and more people who never

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Speaker 1: dreamed of going to Long Island City and to Astoria

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Speaker 1: and to Brooklyn is just apart of Manhattan now in

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Speaker 1: terms of how many people who live and work there

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Speaker 1: and put their kids in school there, but who work

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Speaker 1: in the city and commute. More and more and more

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Speaker 1: people have resigned themselves or even are happy to commute.

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Speaker 2: Is that your experience as well?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, in some ways, I don't think

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Speaker 3: it's such a bad thing that a lot of people

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Speaker 3: who would have only considered living in Manhattan before now

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Speaker 3: are living throughout the city. What I think would be

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Speaker 3: a terrible thing is if Manhattan became a place that

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Speaker 3: only the wealthy could live, and that more and more

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Speaker 3: the other boroughs that became the case as well. I'm

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Speaker 3: not sure that I know what the answer is. I mean, clearly,

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Speaker 3: if we had a different political environment, we'd have things

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Speaker 3: like mitche Lama programs and other things to create and

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Speaker 3: build affordable housing, saying this is an investment in our

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Speaker 3: city's future. The construction is good, it creates jobs, the

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Speaker 3: fact that we give good, affordable housing to people who

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Speaker 3: we need, you know, to be teachers, to be firemen,

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Speaker 3: to be sanitation.

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Speaker 2: We don't have housing for those people. Now, you know.

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Speaker 1: One of the first things that happened in New York

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Speaker 1: years ago was the police were successful in argument against

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Speaker 1: the residency requirement because they said, you can't force me

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Speaker 1: to live here because I can't afford the rent here

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Speaker 1: on a policeman's salary. So they did away with But

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Speaker 1: of course this is a city where rather than build

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Speaker 1: affordable housing for people like the police and have them

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Speaker 1: invested in the community they live in, they all leave,

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Speaker 1: which makes them somewhat less invested, I think in the

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Speaker 1: community they live in, although many of them come from

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Speaker 1: the city. It seems we could do a whole hour

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Speaker 1: about the power of the real estate development community and

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Speaker 1: the landlords forth in this. I mean they run the city. Sure,

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Speaker 1: they run the city in so many ways, and they

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Speaker 1: run the city. I mean what gets built, what doesn't

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Speaker 1: get built? Guys like you fight them and win because

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Speaker 1: public outrage and public passions about these things still have

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Speaker 1: some power.

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Speaker 3: Right Well, Ultimately government makes the decisions, and while certainly

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Speaker 3: the people with money and access have enormous influence over them.

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Speaker 3: The average people do because they vote, and if you

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Speaker 3: exercise that strength that we have, and it's the only

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Speaker 3: thing we have, is the power of the vote, that's

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Speaker 3: the way that we can affect these.

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Speaker 2: I want to finish with this.

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Speaker 1: The society has an LGBT initiative for some of the preservation.

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Speaker 2: They do talk about that.

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Speaker 3: Look, sure, New York and especially the village really has

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Speaker 3: such a wealth of sites connected to the LGBT lesbian, gay, bisexual,

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Speaker 3: transgender civil rights movements. I mean the one that everybody knows,

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Speaker 3: of course, a Stone Wall where the riots took place

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Speaker 3: in nineteen sixty nine, which in many respects kicked off

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Speaker 3: the gay movie exactly. But there's many other ones as well.

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Speaker 3: I mean, just around the corner from there, there's Julius's Bar,

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Speaker 3: where in nineteen sixty six there was this sit in

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Speaker 3: or sit in as it was called, the first planned

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Speaker 3: civil disobedience for gay rights. At that time, few people

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Speaker 3: sort of know or remember this. It was actually illegal

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Speaker 3: to serve alcohol to someone who you knew was a homosexual,

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Speaker 3: so it in essence made gay bars illegal. That's why

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Speaker 3: they were all.

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Speaker 2: The hotel Tennessee Williams of a state and people were

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Speaker 2: breaking the law.

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Speaker 3: I know. Yeah, So as a result of this, actually

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Speaker 3: there was a legal case that more or less changed that, and.

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Speaker 2: So that was how to put that in a movie.

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Speaker 2: I love that.

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Speaker 3: You know, back when there were very, very very few

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Speaker 3: places that gay people could meet, almost all of them

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Speaker 3: were in places like Greenwich.

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Speaker 1: Village Preservation executive director Andrew Berman. In late June twenty fifteen,

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Speaker 1: just a few days before New York City's annual Pride Parade,

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Speaker 1: and after many years of behind the scenes politicking, Andrew

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Speaker 1: Berman and his colleagues celebrated early the Stonewall Inn won

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Speaker 1: its New York City Landmark status, making it the first

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Speaker 1: site designated primarily for its significance to LGBT history. Take

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Speaker 1: a listen to the Here's the Thing Archives. I talk

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Speaker 1: with another hard working advocate, Josh Fox, the environmental activist

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Speaker 1: whose film Gasland exposed the dangers of fracking.

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Speaker 3: They would say, oh, your water's fine, and then they

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Speaker 3: would go and get them a glass of water. Drink

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Speaker 3: sor right, well, if you think this is fine for

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Speaker 3: my mother to drink, then you go ahead and drink it.

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Speaker 3: And they wouldn't drink it.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen at Here's the Thing dot Org. We'll

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Speaker 1: have an update with Andrew Berman after the break. I'm

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Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin, and this is Here's the Thing. I spoke

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Speaker 1: with Executive Director of Village Preservation Andrew Berman for an

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Speaker 1: episode that originally aired in November twenty fifteen. Obviously, much

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Speaker 1: has changed in New York since, and I wanted to

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Speaker 1: sit with the Berman for an update on what has

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Speaker 1: developed and not developed in that time. Two things come

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Speaker 1: to mind. One of them is they say that New

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Speaker 1: York is sinking under the weight of all the building too.

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Speaker 1: I know you no doubt read that correct. Is New

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Speaker 1: York actually sinking under the weight of man? And I

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Speaker 1: know you're not a geologist.

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Speaker 3: Well we'll find out. I mean either it's sinking or

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Speaker 3: the water levels arising. I mean, between the two of them,

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Speaker 3: where we seem to be going underwater?

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Speaker 2: Is that true?

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Speaker 3: Well, certainly the water levels are rising. I mean that's

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Speaker 3: a big problem for New York City, which they're still

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Speaker 3: trying to figure out what to do about that.

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Speaker 2: When Sandy came. I'm in New Yorker. I've been here since.

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Speaker 1: I have had an address in New York since nineteen seventy,

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Speaker 1: and then when Sandy came that was just so singular

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Speaker 1: and so unprecedented. They're saying the water might come up

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Speaker 1: to fourteenth Street, and I'm like, come on, I mean,

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Speaker 1: get serious, all right, I could imagine this is not

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Speaker 1: the Caribbean, and the water came up to fourteenth Street.

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Speaker 1: Buildings wiped out in Tribeca, flooded, not just in the basement,

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Speaker 1: but even the first floor were took in a lot

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Speaker 1: of water. The impact of Sandy I was, I was

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Speaker 1: just shocked, and I'm wondering if the city had done

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Speaker 1: anything to prepare for that happening.

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Speaker 3: Again, well, I know they've done a bunch of things,

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Speaker 3: but I think by any measure, they haven't done enough.

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Speaker 3: You know, there are some new rules in terms of

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Speaker 3: construction in flood zones that you know, have to have

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Speaker 3: some greater level of precaution, but they're still really encouraging

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Speaker 3: a lot of development in what everybody knows is the

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Speaker 3: first places that are going to flood if there's another

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Speaker 3: Superstar and Sandy or something like that. The other thing

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Speaker 3: that they've done or they're doing, is they're building these

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Speaker 3: berms and other types of protection along very We're going

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Speaker 3: to build the big wall the river in the harbor. Well,

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Speaker 3: there's been everything from the proposal to build a giant

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Speaker 3: wall from New Jersey to Long Island that would you know,

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Speaker 3: a floodgate that would keep it from coming in, and

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Speaker 3: then you know, some more modest proposals. But right now

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Speaker 3: East River Park in the East Village and Lower East

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Speaker 3: Side has been completely leveled because they're rebuilding it at

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Speaker 3: about fifteen feet higher, I believe than it used to

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Speaker 3: be as a way of protecting the neighborhoods adjacent to it.

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Speaker 3: Although a lot of people would argue that it's not

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Speaker 3: the best plan and it's doing more harm than good,

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Speaker 3: But there's piecemeal things going on throughout the city to

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Speaker 3: try to address that.

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Speaker 1: In the years I've lived in the city, of course,

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Speaker 1: I've seen tremendous change on a number of levels. I

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Speaker 1: do notice that it's like, especially in midtown, I just

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Speaker 1: see so many goddamn ugly buildings going up here, and

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Speaker 1: I see those kind of those tall, thin shafts along

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Speaker 1: the East fifties there, those big buildings went up there

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Speaker 1: which are so ugly. Why do you think the city

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Speaker 1: allows so much construction in Manhattan rather than diverting it

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Speaker 1: out to like the Bronx, working with the state of

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Speaker 1: New Jersey and so forth, to not have what we have.

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Speaker 1: And part of that, of course, is the pressure on

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Speaker 1: the village and what your organization is focused on to

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Speaker 1: knock everything down and rebuild that. Why do you think

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Speaker 1: the city it just thinks that, you know, the Manhattan's

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Speaker 1: going to look like some obscene megalopolis like twenty five

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Speaker 1: years from now.

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Speaker 2: Why do you think the city doesn't fight that? Well.

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Speaker 3: I think it's a couple of things. There's obviously a

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Speaker 3: tremendous demand from the real estate industry. They see the

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Speaker 3: opportunity to make money. And you know, the city's always

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Speaker 3: been controlled by the real estate industry, either directly or indirectly,

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Speaker 3: you know, campaign contributions, lobbying, influence, etc. You know, So

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Speaker 3: I think that's a big part of it. I think

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Speaker 3: that's where the most money is to be made in

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Speaker 3: many cases, although we've seen explosive development in places like

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Speaker 3: the Long Island City waterfront and downtown Brooklyn Williamsburg, so

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Speaker 3: that you're definitely seeing some of that kind of stuff

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Speaker 3: in other parts of the city, even Bedford Stuyvesant has

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Speaker 3: seen an explosive amount of development. But you know, this

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Speaker 3: city is very hesitant to put restrictions on development. They

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Speaker 3: want to encourage as much of it as possible. You know,

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Speaker 3: our city has never done what some other cities have done,

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Speaker 3: which is said, oh, certainly many cities in Europe, you know,

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Speaker 3: where they say that we need to make sure that

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Speaker 3: we hold on to the character of what makes our

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Speaker 3: city distinctive and wonderful even as we allow it to grow.

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Speaker 3: And you know, I don't think there's anybody of any

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Speaker 3: reasonable mind that would say we shouldn't allow new development

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Speaker 3: in New York City. We have to. There's more business.

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Speaker 3: People want to live here, although shockingly, in the last

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Speaker 3: two or three years, according to the Census Bureau of

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Speaker 3: the population of the city has been dropping actually as

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Speaker 3: opposed to to growing.

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Speaker 2: Is co related.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's continued after COVID, so you know, it remains

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Speaker 3: to be.

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Speaker 1: A ripple effect of all the jobs leaving and the

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Speaker 1: tax space leaving.

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Speaker 3: And my guess is probably a big part of what

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Speaker 3: that's about is that now there's just so much greater

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Speaker 3: ability to work remotely, so people don't feel as though

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Speaker 3: they have to be as close to their jobs as

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Speaker 3: they used to be for some types of jobs. Obviously,

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Speaker 3: some don't have that flexibility. So you know, even though

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Speaker 3: clearly new development needs to take place, the city has

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Speaker 3: always been very hesitant about being too restrictive about that,

438
00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:18,120
Speaker 3: having too heavy of a hand in terms of how

439
00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:21,280
Speaker 3: they control that. And we've seen we have some of

440
00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:24,679
Speaker 3: the ugliest new development that you can find anywhere. And

441
00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:26,400
Speaker 3: I think a lot of people in New York would

442
00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:29,639
Speaker 3: be less opposed to the new development if it just

443
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:33,320
Speaker 3: felt like it fit in contributed in some great way

444
00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:35,920
Speaker 3: to the character of the area. When they're on the

445
00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:38,399
Speaker 3: rare occasions when there is a building that's built that

446
00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:40,720
Speaker 3: actually feels like this is a great new addition to

447
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:43,760
Speaker 3: the city. People actually do in Central Park West. Yeah,

448
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:46,200
Speaker 3: but these are these are.

449
00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:50,720
Speaker 1: Rarities now in New York where I've heard rumors and

450
00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:53,120
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of bullshit obviously about how they're

451
00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:56,320
Speaker 1: going to start converting retail space, abandoned retail space and

452
00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:58,639
Speaker 1: office space into residential space.

453
00:21:58,960 --> 00:21:59,480
Speaker 2: They're going to.

454
00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:03,240
Speaker 1: Allow the old SOHO, the old evolution of SOHO. People

455
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:05,440
Speaker 1: don't realize that they used to make nuts and bolts

456
00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:10,040
Speaker 1: and screws and wash machines or sewing machines or whatever

457
00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:12,800
Speaker 1: that was in Soho, in the old cast Iron district

458
00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:16,200
Speaker 1: of Soho. And then eventually somebody finally came to their

459
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:18,640
Speaker 1: senses and said, none of this business is coming back.

460
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:21,760
Speaker 1: It's gone forever. So they then became the great residential

461
00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:24,280
Speaker 1: evolution of Soho. Well, I'm wondering, is that Do you

462
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:26,720
Speaker 1: think that's going to happen in other places as well?

463
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:27,159
Speaker 2: Well?

464
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:30,199
Speaker 3: So you know, it's interesting they started doing that in

465
00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:34,439
Speaker 3: the Financial District about twenty years ago. They allowed some

466
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:39,400
Speaker 3: of those older office buildings there to be converted to residential. Wilworth, Yeah, exactly,

467
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:43,240
Speaker 3: the Woolworth Building one Wall Street. Usually these sort of tall,

468
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:46,960
Speaker 3: skinny towers, beautiful buildings, classic New York skyline buildings, and

469
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:51,119
Speaker 3: it's been incredibly successful. Now, what we have, especially post COVID,

470
00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:55,040
Speaker 3: is these you know, nineteen fifties, sixties, seventies, eighties, these

471
00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:59,879
Speaker 3: massive office buildings that nobody seems to want to move into.

472
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:04,720
Speaker 3: The problem is they're not easily adapted to housing because

473
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 3: the floors are so big that ninety percent of them

474
00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:10,639
Speaker 3: are more than, you know, twenty feet from a window,

475
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:14,879
Speaker 3: and you can't have living space where you're nowhere near

476
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:18,040
Speaker 3: a window. People are not going to it's illegal, car

477
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:21,119
Speaker 3: aren't going to and people aren't gonna live in windowless spaces.

478
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:24,600
Speaker 3: Soup to code, yeah, exactly. So the opportunities there for

479
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:29,399
Speaker 3: turning these newer, bigger office buildings into residential space are

480
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,399
Speaker 3: much more limited. From a purely practiced level, what you

481
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:34,840
Speaker 3: can do is you can sort of like hollow out

482
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:37,720
Speaker 3: a core. So what they sometimes do with these big

483
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:40,600
Speaker 3: old buildings is they actually remove parts of it so

484
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:42,720
Speaker 3: that all of a sudden there's an open space where

485
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:46,240
Speaker 3: you can place windows facing like an inner core or

486
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,159
Speaker 3: something like that. But that's of course very expensive, and

487
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:51,359
Speaker 3: then you're losing the space. So I think it remains

488
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:54,320
Speaker 3: to be seen. There's clearly more opportunities to convert office

489
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:56,680
Speaker 3: buildings to residential but it's not like we're going to

490
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,199
Speaker 3: suddenly see all of that empty office space in New

491
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:02,280
Speaker 3: York converted to residential use. It's just not it's not

492
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:02,919
Speaker 3: going to happen.

493
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 1: Well, I don't see why governments that they don't work

494
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:11,679
Speaker 1: assiduously to build affordable housing and force them to do

495
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:12,640
Speaker 1: that kind of parody.

496
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:14,240
Speaker 2: In that swap, you want.

497
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 1: To build a sixty story building in Manhattan, another ugly

498
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 1: pencil box building to have a bunch of rich people.

499
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 1: So we're going to all these lengths. Yes, I want

500
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 1: people to have jobs. Yes, I want people to have

501
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 1: construction jobs, good jobs, high paying jobs in New York.

502
00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 1: But what I also want is for them to start

503
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:34,840
Speaker 1: to explore where can we develop in the bronx to

504
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:37,439
Speaker 1: build affordable housing. And you've got to do both. You

505
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:40,439
Speaker 1: can't just sell the saudiast fifty million dollar apartments. They

506
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:42,760
Speaker 1: don't live here. And then you know, my doormaan can't

507
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:44,720
Speaker 1: get to work because now we have to move to

508
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:48,119
Speaker 1: Wanta into an apartment, not even a house.

509
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:49,919
Speaker 2: You know, it's just crazy crazy.

510
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,400
Speaker 3: Well, let me just say we need to have affordable

511
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:56,080
Speaker 3: housing all throughout New York City. The problem is that

512
00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 3: the approach that a lot of people take is instead

513
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 3: of saying we need affordable house and let's build affordable housing,

514
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,399
Speaker 3: they say, well, we need to unleash the market and

515
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:08,199
Speaker 3: build as much market rate housing as possible, flood the market,

516
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 3: and then that's going to bring the prices down for everybody,

517
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 3: and you know trickle down economics. The way to get

518
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:18,600
Speaker 3: affordable housing is to build affordable housing and to keep

519
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 3: the affordable housing that you have, which we're losing at

520
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:21,920
Speaker 3: a breakneck pace.

521
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,720
Speaker 1: So village preservation, when did the village become such a

522
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 1: focus of yours?

523
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:27,720
Speaker 2: You move there to live?

524
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,720
Speaker 3: Well, So I've been working in the village since the

525
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,680
Speaker 3: early nineteen nineties. I was working for an elect official

526
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:36,879
Speaker 3: and newly elected city council member who represented the area,

527
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 3: Tom Dwayne, Tom Dwayne, Yeah, guy, yeah yeah. He went

528
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:43,199
Speaker 3: onto the State Senate. I worked with him there and

529
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 3: then from there I moved on to what's now Village

530
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:47,879
Speaker 3: Preservation used to be Greenwich Village Society for.

531
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 2: A Store Preservation.

532
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 3: And you know, it's funny. I don't live in the village.

533
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,800
Speaker 3: I live in Hell's Kitchen. I've never lived in the village.

534
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 3: But like every New Yorker in a sense, but you know,

535
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,680
Speaker 3: like every New Yorker, village is part of what I

536
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:03,959
Speaker 3: love about New York City. And the work that I

537
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 3: do is not because you know, I have an apartment

538
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:08,720
Speaker 3: and I'm trying to you know, preserve my view out

539
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:11,119
Speaker 3: my window or you know, make sure that only this

540
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 3: happens on my street. There's none of that personal benefit

541
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 3: for me other than that I think everybody in New

542
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:21,120
Speaker 3: York and the world benefits from beautiful places, historic architecture,

543
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 3: places that have a distinctive character. We all benefit from that.

544
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 3: That's a public good and that's what I work towards

545
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:30,680
Speaker 3: and fight for, and that's why I do the work

546
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:32,960
Speaker 3: that I do in Greenwich Village, East Village, No Hope,

547
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 3: places like that, because these are some of New York's

548
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:38,159
Speaker 3: most historic, distinctive neighbors. So much history there, yes, so

549
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 3: much history, civil rights history, artistic history, cultural history, and

550
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 3: we we're the poorer if we lose that or we

551
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:47,440
Speaker 3: destroy it, which is what would happen if people don't

552
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:47,960
Speaker 3: push back.

553
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:55,439
Speaker 1: Village Preservation Executive Director Andrew Breman. We'll have more with

554
00:26:55,520 --> 00:27:08,400
Speaker 1: Andrew Berman after the break. I'm Alec Baldwin and this

555
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 1: is here's the thing. I talked with Executive director of

556
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 1: Village Preservation Andrew Berman again recently to learn what gains

557
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,440
Speaker 1: had been made for his organization since we last spoke

558
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:24,960
Speaker 1: in twenty fifteen, including the recent successful restricting. Then whyu's

559
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:30,359
Speaker 1: efforts for expansion and my evolution has been kind of

560
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 1: remarkable to me.

561
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 3: Very different school than when you went there.

562
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 2: Well, it's completely different now it's like this monolith.

563
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:38,160
Speaker 1: But the thing is is that that I recently read

564
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,160
Speaker 1: in one of the articles that they had a plan

565
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 1: for redevelopment that you successfully thwarted. Correct, what did they

566
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 1: want to do?

567
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:44,359
Speaker 2: Right?

568
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:47,639
Speaker 3: So, for about sixty or so years now, they and

569
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:52,159
Speaker 3: any private university has been prohibited from most types of

570
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:56,639
Speaker 3: uses going into Soho and No Hoo. A year and

571
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,399
Speaker 3: a half ago, the city changed the zoning for Soho

572
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:03,399
Speaker 3: and No Hoo. But we successfully lobbied the city council

573
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 3: to make it so that that restriction on private university

574
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 3: expansion in that neighborhood stayed part of the zoning. NYU

575
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:15,880
Speaker 3: then sued to try to get that provision overturned.

576
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,439
Speaker 1: So, if I'm understanding you correctly, they weren't allowed to

577
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:19,160
Speaker 1: go there at all.

578
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 3: They've never been allowed to go.

579
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 1: Right, and now the powers that be allowed them to

580
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:24,440
Speaker 1: go there, but you wanted them to be restricted by

581
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:26,680
Speaker 1: the indigenous zoning laws there.

582
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 3: Basically they were restricted before, and then they were restricted

583
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 3: under slightly different but new rules, and they tried to

584
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:37,159
Speaker 3: take the city to court to say the new rules

585
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 3: that restrict us are unconstitutional, and.

586
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 2: They wanted to be able to do whatever they wanted.

587
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 3: They wanted to be able to expand there as much

588
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 3: as they wanted to, and a state Supreme Court judge

589
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 3: threw their case out of court and said, Nope, this

590
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 3: is perfectly constitutional. You have not been harms in any way.

591
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:54,960
Speaker 3: You were never able to locate here. You're still not

592
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 3: able to locate here. So no harm, no foul, And

593
00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 3: at least as of today, those regulations can need to.

594
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 2: Say are they appealing that decision.

595
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 3: They haven't announced that they have yet, they haven't said

596
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 3: that they won't, so we have to wait and see.

597
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 3: But it was a pretty firm defeat that they suffered.

598
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 1: Well, you know, it's always a bit of a I'm

599
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 1: not going to say conflict of interest, but it's always

600
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 1: an interesting conversation for me because you know, it's my

601
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:23,480
Speaker 1: alma mater and I was in in large regard, you know,

602
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 1: very proud to go there, and you know, went to

603
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 1: that acting program in its earliest time. I think that

604
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 1: they I don't know when the Tish family gave the

605
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 1: money that they did the name and they created the

606
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 1: school that it is now, but I do see that

607
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 1: NYU and this, and I'm not singling them mouth like

608
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 1: with many institutions in the arts, in medicine. People want

609
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 1: a building they can put their name on. I'll give

610
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 1: you one hundred million dollars if you're here to put

611
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 1: my name on the front of the New York Public Library.

612
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 2: What was it Schwartz Shwortsman, And he wanted his name in.

613
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 1: Front of the library. They were like, no, that's not happening.

614
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:56,479
Speaker 1: He was like, wait, whoa, whoa, whoa whoa. You know,

615
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 1: Gethen gets his name on the old Avery Fisher Hall.

616
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 1: One hundred million bucks will buy you a lot.

617
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 3: You know, there's the new NYU building, Paulson, his name

618
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 3: is on it. So you know that huge new building

619
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 3: that's gone up on Mercer, the old coles Fieldhouse.

620
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 2: Exactly what do you think of that building?

621
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 3: Oh god, I mean it's it's it's like the Death Star,

622
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 3: you know, I mean it.

623
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 2: Does look like a Star Wars movie.

624
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's quite intimidating.

625
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 2: So it looks like something that landed there.

626
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 3: Yes, from someplace than ever.

627
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 2: Of shooting out and wind blowing everything up.

628
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:28,720
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, you'd think that the university would make

629
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 3: more of an effort to try to at least look

630
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 3: kind of friendly, open, appealing. I mean, this building and

631
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 3: several of their other new buildings are just so off putting,

632
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 3: so fortress like, so, you know, sort of aggressive.

633
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 1: And do you find there's a reason for that, meaning

634
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 1: energy efficiency, HVAC efficiency.

635
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 3: It's a good question, you know. I don't know, because

636
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 3: I'll say it almost seems like they're trying to make

637
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 3: them ugly. But I can't imagine that's the case. No

638
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 3: matter what I think of the NYU administration, not the

639
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 3: individual schools, which I think do incredible jobs, it's not

640
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 3: in their interest to make their buildings look off putting.

641
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 3: I think they just keep getting it wrong for some reason.

642
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 3: And you know, let me say this about NYU. I

643
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 3: think it's a great institution. I think it's incredibly important

644
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 3: to the success of Greenwich Village and of New York City.

645
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 3: Half of my staff and my board are NYU alumni.

646
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 3: But what all of us agree about is we don't

647
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 3: want to see the university take over the neighborhood. It's

648
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 3: important that it be an ingredient, a part of the

649
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 3: balance of the neighborhood.

650
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 2: And there is that perception that they indeed do want

651
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 2: to take over the.

652
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 3: Guest and that at least parts of the neighborhood feel

653
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 3: like a company town. That's not what we want. We

654
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 3: want the university to be woven into the fabric of

655
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 3: the neighborhood, feel like a part of it, but not

656
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 3: the dominant presence.

657
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 1: My last question for you, one of the issues I

658
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 1: face is that New York itself hasn't changed.

659
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 2: It's always the same.

660
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:48,479
Speaker 1: It's always tearing down buildings and building new buildings and

661
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 1: inspiring leaders who are not beyond some criticism, but and

662
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 1: then like deadly dull leaders who have no who don't

663
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 1: inspire anything. How has New York changed the most to

664
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 1: you in your life? To me, you're from the Bronx.

665
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 1: For me, what's changed is New Yorkers have changed, not

666
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 1: New York. The people who come here to live have changed,

667
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 1: and why they come here has changed. How is New

668
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 1: York changed to you?

669
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 3: Well, you know, having grown up in the Bronx in

670
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 3: the nineteen seventies, I would say one of the biggest

671
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 3: things that I think I've seen change is New York

672
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 3: has lost a lot of its edge. It was a

673
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 3: much edgier place forty fifty years ago, and you know,

674
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 3: that's where I think a lot of the spark of

675
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 3: creativity and innovation and things like that come from, and

676
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 3: it worries me that we're losing that in some way.

677
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 3: I mean, there's still an incredible amount of creative people

678
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 3: here in creative activity and energy and cultural institutions. New

679
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 3: York to me feels less like it's kind of on

680
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 3: the cultural frontier the way that it did a generation

681
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 3: or two ago, and that concerns me because you know,

682
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 3: New York is always, I think going to be a challenging,

683
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 3: difficult place to live, but it gives certain rewards that

684
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:00,800
Speaker 3: you can't get any place else. One of those is

685
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 3: this incredible spirit of innovation, and if we lose that,

686
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 3: I think that's really the lynchpin of New York's success.

687
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 3: That people come here because it's a place where you

688
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 3: can see things change, happen, be created, be the first

689
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:17,720
Speaker 3: place where things happen that you wouldn't see anywhere else,

690
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 3: and it worries me that we've lost some of that.

691
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 1: And the root of that, to me, but by the way,

692
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 1: is about affordable housing. I remember many years ago and

693
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 1: what was one of the most beautiful periods of my life,

694
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 1: the late eighties. I was here doing theater in New York,

695
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 1: and I was really enjoying myself, and I'd just really

696
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:36,560
Speaker 1: been working as an actor for a few years up

697
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 1: to them, and as a member of a very well

698
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 1: regarded society of sober people. I would go to the

699
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 1: meetings at Trinity Church and in the book would list

700
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 1: of the meeting directory said Trinity was the name of

701
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 1: the meeting. And I go into this meeting and the

702
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 1: room was just teeming with these old guard artists. I

703
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 1: mean people who painted with wroth go. I mean these

704
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 1: were people who had lofts in what was the Old

705
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 1: Trap and they had affordable spaces to make art.

706
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 2: And I was around people. Then we're going to get in.

707
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 1: Like any of those meetings, they get up and share

708
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 1: and talk about the conditions of their life and how

709
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 1: well they're doing or or not. And then after the

710
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:13,440
Speaker 1: MENI I'd hang out with them and talked to them.

711
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:16,880
Speaker 1: I just was thrilled to be around these people who

712
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:21,319
Speaker 1: were artists with spaces they could afford in Manhattan, and

713
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:23,879
Speaker 1: they were part of a culture in Manhattan back when

714
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:27,360
Speaker 1: SOHO before it got flipped, and especially Tribeca was a

715
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:29,839
Speaker 1: little I wouldn't say ceed, but more of.

716
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 2: A kind of the wild West.

717
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:33,839
Speaker 1: I mean it was really kind of a like an

718
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:38,800
Speaker 1: open plane, if you will, And that's gone. Artists are gone,

719
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:42,880
Speaker 1: people won't afford are gone. They built Manhattan Plaza and

720
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 1: said to you, if your income taxes jive with our formula,

721
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 1: our algorithm, you can get in an apartment here, and

722
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:50,319
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. We know we needed twenty of those.

723
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 1: We needed so many more Manhattan Plazas in this town

724
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 1: or out in the outer boroughs to help maintain. And

725
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:01,280
Speaker 1: there's no sense of to me of that. What makes

726
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 1: New York is that career diversity.

727
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 3: Well, there's certainly a lot less affordability here as there

728
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:10,439
Speaker 3: are in other parts of the city, and that's the key.

729
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:13,360
Speaker 3: You need to have a place that you know, everybody

730
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 3: can afford to live in. The workers, you know, the artists,

731
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 3: the civil servants.

732
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 1: Well, let me just say this to you Downtown, the

733
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 1: warmth and the buildings and the history and everything that

734
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,400
Speaker 1: we crave and covet about the village, I'm grateful that

735
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:28,840
Speaker 1: you're working so hard to protect that.

736
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:30,480
Speaker 3: So thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you for all

737
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 3: your great work and for having me in here. Again.

738
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 1: My thanks to Village Preservation Executive director Andrew Berman. This

739
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 1: episode was recorded at CDM Studios in New York City.

740
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:49,240
Speaker 1: We're produced by Kathleen Musso, Zach MacNeice, and Maureen Hoben.

741
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 1: Our engineer is Frank Imperial. Our social media manager is

742
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:57,240
Speaker 1: Daniel Gingrich. I'm Alec Baldwin. Here's the Thing is brought

743
00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 1: to you by iHeart Radio Company,