1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:04,120 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class from house 2 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:13,400 Speaker 1: stuff Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:17,160 Speaker 1: I'm Holly Fry and I'm Tracy V. Wilson. And since 4 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:19,439 Speaker 1: we are officially in October, now we're going to talk 5 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:23,280 Speaker 1: again about some kind of halloweeny theme things, this little 6 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: spook factor scariness. Yeah, so, uh, this time it's mass 7 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:31,720 Speaker 1: murder related, but in uh, you know, an interesting way, 8 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 1: a musical way. Yeah. Well sometimes thanks to you endlest 9 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 1: theatrical productions, the Songdheim musical and the recent Tim Burton 10 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 1: film that was based on it. Sweeney Todd is a 11 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: character everybody knows of. H you know, he's a terrifying 12 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 1: killer who murders his victims when they're in a position 13 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:49,639 Speaker 1: of weakness because he's a barber and they're lying there, 14 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 1: prone beneath his blade. And there are many instances of 15 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:57,319 Speaker 1: the demon Barber story that are actually touted, uh as 16 00:00:57,320 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 1: a tale based on real life events, Like there will 17 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 1: be stage plays and you know, the program will say 18 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 1: based on real life events. Yeah. I always wonder is 19 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:06,200 Speaker 1: that like is that really real real life events or 20 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 1: or is this like Fargo real life events? Yeah? So, uh, 21 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:12,959 Speaker 1: that's something that's come up many times throughout the years, 22 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 1: and it's a story I find fascinating. Uh. And much 23 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:18,760 Speaker 1: like Jack the Ripper, their truths and legends that have 24 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 1: kind of gotten mashed together, and so historians and scholars 25 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 1: have had to like sort through the gore and find 26 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:26,479 Speaker 1: the nuggets of reality. Uh. And so that's why we're 27 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 1: doing that one today. We're kind of going to talk 28 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 1: through some of those easy to see why it's a 29 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 1: really gripping story. I feel like, if you want to 30 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:35,679 Speaker 1: have tension in a movie, you can just have a 31 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:39,760 Speaker 1: character be shaved by another person with a straight razor. 32 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 1: Straight razors do have like the instant association of I 33 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:47,559 Speaker 1: could die from this. Yeah, let's just have like long 34 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: shots of somebody being shaved with straight razor. So add 35 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 1: to that the taboo of cannibalism and the intrigue of 36 00:01:56,240 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 1: unknowingly participating in it, and you've got something. Readers and theatergoers, 37 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 1: can you will pardon the pun sink their teeth into Yeah. 38 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 1: From the opening lines of any of the versions of 39 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 1: it to the horrible pronouncement that's made by an officer 40 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:14,239 Speaker 1: in the daniuma of the Penny Dreadful version, which is quote, 41 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen, I fear that what I am going 42 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:19,239 Speaker 1: to say will spoil your appetites. But the truth is 43 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 1: beautiful at times. And I have to state that Mrs 44 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 1: Lovett's pies are made of human flesh. It's like one 45 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 1: of those stories that audiences have just loved for more 46 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 1: than a hundred and fifty years. Uh. Incidentally, if you 47 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:33,640 Speaker 1: read the Penny Dreadful and will link to a version 48 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:36,240 Speaker 1: of it, that danim all happens at the very end, 49 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:38,920 Speaker 1: but it's pretty abrupt. It's kind of like all the 50 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 1: people are in line waiting for their pies and the 51 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 1: officer comes in and says that, and then they all 52 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 1: go on and then that's the end the story and 53 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 1: scene like it just wraps up really abruptly. But it 54 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 1: really all started, at least the versions that have become 55 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 1: very popular culturally with one writer, and his name was 56 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 1: Thomas Peck It pressed and you have probably not heard 57 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 1: of him unless you're really into this lore, but he's 58 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 1: a pretty pivotal figure in the Sweeney Todd story. And 59 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:10,360 Speaker 1: I will say this at the outset that there is 60 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:14,960 Speaker 1: still some debate, fringe debate among historians about whether or 61 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 1: not he was the one that wrote this kind of 62 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 1: see why in just a moment um, but most people 63 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 1: except that, yes, this was his work. And he was 64 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 1: born on May thirteenth in eighteen ten and Middlesex and 65 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 1: he was the third child of a blacksmith named William 66 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 1: Pressed and his wife Anne Peckett. He was chained as 67 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:36,320 Speaker 1: a type setter and he began working for George Drake 68 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 1: in London at the age of twenty five, and he 69 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 1: edited and printed songbooks and compilations of short fiction. And 70 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 1: just a year after he started that work with George 71 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 1: Drake in in eighteen thirty six, Press was hired by 72 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 1: a London publisher named Edward Lloyd, and he was hired 73 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 1: along with two other writers named William Bale Bernard and 74 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: Morris Burnett to write copies of Dickens work and cash 75 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 1: in on the famous writer's reputation. And uh, the Pickwick 76 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 1: Papers had been extremely popular at the time, and so 77 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 1: Lloyd just cooked up this plan to hire a few 78 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 1: writers to churn out similar stories to um sell to 79 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 1: eager readers. I feel like this was like the six 80 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 1: version of the bud buzzfeedlistical kind of like, let's take 81 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 1: this thing that's really popular and make it really super popular. 82 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:27,040 Speaker 1: Except it was a much weasilier than that because they 83 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 1: never gave credit. They just stole the work. Uh. And 84 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:35,919 Speaker 1: those three men wrote under one pen name, which was Bos, 85 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 1: although Pressed is given the most credit for the work done, 86 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 1: which is why some people still argue that it could 87 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 1: have been one of the other men. But I mean, 88 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:46,360 Speaker 1: they produced titles that were like Oliver Twists, that's t 89 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: W I S S, not Oliver Twists, and the post 90 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 1: humorous papers of the Pickwick Club. So they were doing 91 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 1: these very obvious knockoffs. It's kind of like if you 92 00:04:57,360 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 1: buy a DVD from a street vendor and you realize 93 00:04:59,880 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 1: it not really the movie you think it is. It 94 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:03,839 Speaker 1: was very much like that. But part of it was 95 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 1: that they were writing these very cheap versions. Um Edward 96 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:10,839 Speaker 1: Lloyd was printing really cheap versions because actual nice books 97 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 1: were too pricey for many people. Uh, and a lot 98 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:15,600 Speaker 1: of people couldn't read that well, so it would have 99 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 1: been a huge investment. So these are like the cheap 100 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 1: versions that they would could read and feel that they 101 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:23,720 Speaker 1: had gotten there their literature and their entertainment, and they 102 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 1: really probably didn't care so much about whether it was authentic, right, 103 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 1: you know who cared about whether it was authentic was 104 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 1: Charles Dickens. Yea, and not so delighted. And now, yeah, 105 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 1: he sued over the extremely obvious copyright infringement that was 106 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 1: going on. But Lloyd's argument was that the works being 107 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:43,039 Speaker 1: produced by his enterprise were so bad that no true 108 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:46,240 Speaker 1: reader could mistake them for actual Dickens work, and the 109 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:49,840 Speaker 1: judge agreed with that argument. Yeah, which to me is 110 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:51,359 Speaker 1: kind of weird. It's kind of like going, Ah, the 111 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 1: rooms don't know the difference anyway, so it's really not 112 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:55,679 Speaker 1: a big deal. These people couldn't even read your books, 113 00:05:56,600 --> 00:06:01,040 Speaker 1: which is a very strange, well and kind of offensive. Yeah, 114 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:04,799 Speaker 1: but at this point, even though they're about this plagiarism suit, Press, 115 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:07,159 Speaker 1: it kind of settled into his career as a plagiarist 116 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 1: and so he would just whip out title after title 117 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 1: based on the work of famous writers, and they usually 118 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:15,839 Speaker 1: published in penny weekly papers that were run by Lloyd. 119 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 1: And then he met a lady. Yeah. In November two, 120 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 1: Press married Elizabeth Barbara Moss, but unfortunately their newly wed 121 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:30,040 Speaker 1: happiness did not go on for very long. Elizabeth died 122 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 1: six months later of uterine cancer and then after his 123 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:36,040 Speaker 1: wife's death. There's kind of a gap in terms of 124 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 1: what we know about Press's life. It seems like he 125 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 1: just kept to himself and really focused on work. Yeah, 126 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 1: he never married again, and he did continue to to 127 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 1: um to write prolifically. He was producing a great deal 128 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 1: of work, even though most of it was rip off work. Uh. 129 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 1: Some accounts will claim that Press wrote more than two 130 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:56,800 Speaker 1: hundred titles during the decade and change that he was 131 00:06:56,839 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 1: working for Lloyd, but the real number, still impressive, is 132 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 1: significantly lower. Its guest. Again, we have that mystery of 133 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: several people writing under one name, but it's believed that 134 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 1: somewhere between fifty and sixty titles were produced by Pressed. Uh. 135 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 1: But we don't know the exact count because there were 136 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:19,240 Speaker 1: other other writers in that pie. His work covered a 137 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 1: variety of themes. There were nautical tales, adventures, and eventually 138 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 1: true life crime stories. And when he wasn't plagiarizing other 139 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 1: people's fiction, he would try to look for interesting stories 140 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 1: in the newspapers to come up with ideas for what 141 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 1: to write about, which is a little more legitimate. Yes, uh. 142 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 1: In in the end, we'll talk a little bit more 143 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 1: about his writing and kind of his legacy, but uh so. 144 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 1: In eighteen forty six Press debuted the character of Sweeney 145 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 1: Todd in a serialized story which was called The String 146 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 1: of Pearls, a romance, and it was set in five 147 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 1: and it was published in The People's Periodical, which was 148 00:07:56,840 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 1: one of Lloyd's penny dreadfuls. And initially Sweeney Todd was 149 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 1: kind of a secondary character, but he very quickly became 150 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 1: the focus of the series because he was so popular, 151 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 1: and the series was an immediate hit, and by the 152 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 1: end of its six month run there was a stage 153 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 1: adaptation already launched. A playwright by the name of George 154 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 1: Dipden Pitt retitled the story The String of Pearls the 155 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 1: Fiend of Fleet Street. He advertised it as a fact 156 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 1: based story, and the stage adaptation debut in March Oneste 157 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 1: at the Hawkston Theater, which was known for producing very 158 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 1: sensational melodramas. And from that point on it was almost 159 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 1: like Sweeney took on a life of his own. He 160 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 1: became part of public consciousness. It was a story that 161 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 1: was repeated as true so many times that people began 162 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:44,680 Speaker 1: to believe it. People that couldn't read, would be told 163 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 1: the story by people who had read the book or 164 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 1: the series, and they would say no, and it's all true, 165 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:53,480 Speaker 1: and it kind of made people believe that it was true. 166 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 1: Um never mind that there was no actual evidence of 167 00:08:57,160 --> 00:09:00,200 Speaker 1: the man. There had has not been evidence found owned 168 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:02,679 Speaker 1: of an actual barbershop on Fleet Street during the late 169 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:06,480 Speaker 1: eighteenth century, which is when the play was set. And 170 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:09,440 Speaker 1: you know, the mid eighteen hundreds hundreds in London were 171 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 1: times when they were gruesome and horrifying things reported in 172 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 1: the papers every single day, and there was a public 173 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:20,080 Speaker 1: appetite even for fictionalized version of horror. Uh So, it 174 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 1: was kind of like an ambiance that was really ready 175 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 1: for something like this to be believed. And further giving 176 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 1: the Butcher Barber story additional credibility even though there wasn't 177 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 1: real evidence, was the fact that a lot of the 178 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 1: plays and Penny Dreadful's uh stories that were being produced 179 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:42,200 Speaker 1: at the time really were based in factual events. Uh 180 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 1: So it was kind of a perfect more ask for 181 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:49,440 Speaker 1: this character to become considered an actual historical figure when 182 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: in fact not so much. Another probable influence is the 183 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 1: role of the barber in the eighteenth century. A lot 184 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 1: of them were barber so margins, and there was already 185 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:04,679 Speaker 1: kind of an association of cutting people open. We've talked 186 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 1: before about blood letting is a medical practice a little bit, 187 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 1: and and that's something that barber has often did, and 188 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:13,599 Speaker 1: that association makes it easy for that part of the 189 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 1: Sweeney Tod story to be believed. So dental work, blood letting, 190 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:21,200 Speaker 1: and other minor surgeries were all part of the barber 191 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:24,840 Speaker 1: surgeons trade. Yeah, they would do amputations. They would, I 192 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 1: mean they were. They already kind of had the chopping 193 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:30,559 Speaker 1: people up thing going on. Yeah, I'm gonna take another 194 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 1: to do it maliciously. Yeah, I'm gonna give another shout 195 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:36,839 Speaker 1: out to the podcast saw Bones, which has whole episodes 196 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 1: on both blood letting and amputation. Yeah. Uh And while 197 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 1: we think about that horror, do you want to pause 198 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 1: for just a moment and talk about our sponsor. Yeah, 199 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:50,079 Speaker 1: let's let all that settle for a second. So back 200 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:53,680 Speaker 1: to the demon barber. Yes. Uh. So, while the character 201 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:58,480 Speaker 1: of Sweeney Todd is a fiction, they're actually him may 202 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 1: have been a true feed or two in the mix, 203 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 1: after all, because there are a number of actual events 204 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:06,840 Speaker 1: that happened and we're reported, and would have been in 205 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 1: books and papers that um may have and I would 206 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:15,440 Speaker 1: say even likely did feed into Press's characterization. So as 207 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 1: we've talked about before, he did sometimes go combing through 208 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:21,480 Speaker 1: the newspapers to try to find ideas, and it's possible 209 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 1: that he stumbled across the following passage from the Annual Register, 210 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 1: which was dated December. The most remarkable murder was perpetrated 211 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:33,680 Speaker 1: in the following manner by a journeyman barber that lives 212 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:36,080 Speaker 1: near Hyde Park Corner, who had been for a long 213 00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:39,600 Speaker 1: time past jealous of his wife, but could no way 214 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:42,439 Speaker 1: bring it home to her. A young gentleman, by chance 215 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 1: coming into his master's shop to be shaved and dressed, 216 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:47,840 Speaker 1: and being in liquor, mentioned his having seen a fine 217 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 1: girl home to Hamilton's Street, from whom he had certain 218 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 1: favors the night before. At the same time describing her person, 219 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:58,560 Speaker 1: the barber, concluding it to be his wife, in the 220 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 1: height of frenzy, cut the a woman's throat from ear 221 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 1: to ear and absconded, And then in a register of 222 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 1: criminals and crimes that were incarcerated in London's Newgate Prison, 223 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:12,560 Speaker 1: which should not be taken as an official record. Some 224 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:15,480 Speaker 1: people do interpret it that way, but my understanding is 225 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 1: that no, was it, because the records were kind of 226 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 1: just slapped ash at the point. Yeah, there's also some 227 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:23,720 Speaker 1: theory that there was some sensationalism at worked there as well. 228 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 1: But it mentions a sixteenth century Scottish mass murderer by 229 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,840 Speaker 1: the name of Sawny Bean, which some people say sounds 230 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 1: something like Sweeney Todd. Has some of the same letters. Yeah, 231 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:39,160 Speaker 1: it's the same number of syllables. But being is said 232 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 1: to have raised his entire family in the tradition of murder, 233 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:46,439 Speaker 1: and they lived in a cave as a clan uh, 234 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:48,760 Speaker 1: and they would rob and kill their victims as people 235 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 1: just passed by, and then gruesomely they would eat them 236 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 1: and the entire family according to this account, which is 237 00:12:56,480 --> 00:13:00,680 Speaker 1: not substantiated. Again, this would have happened a long time ago, 238 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 1: when substantiation would have been difficult to um record and 239 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 1: still have Uh. The entire family was executed according to 240 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:11,200 Speaker 1: the Newgate Calendar, which is this register of criminals, and 241 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 1: Bean's wife was allegedly a witch in many versions of 242 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 1: this story, which, if Press took inspiration from the register, 243 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 1: may have informed his development of Mrs Lovett's character a 244 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 1: little bit. This this whole clan can be an episode 245 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:27,080 Speaker 1: on its own one day. It kind of reminds me 246 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 1: of the Peacock family on the X Files. It's much 247 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 1: bigger though they were like a clan of some numbers. 248 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:35,200 Speaker 1: I've read her like forty eight to fifty people that 249 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:36,840 Speaker 1: lived in this cave and it was kind of this 250 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 1: weird inbred family of cannibals in Scotland. It really could 251 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:45,200 Speaker 1: be its own whole story, and it's quite fascinating, and 252 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 1: I'm sure any of our listeners who are kind of 253 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 1: into historical horror have heard of Sonny Bean because it's 254 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:53,440 Speaker 1: a it's one of those big boogeyman. One of the 255 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:55,120 Speaker 1: articles that I read, I think it was in the 256 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 1: an old BBC archive, referred to him as the hannibal 257 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 1: like or of Scotland. So he's got his own hole mythology. 258 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 1: Another tale, which really bears striking similarities to Press Press's 259 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:14,440 Speaker 1: Sweeney Todd story, took place in Paris allegedly around eighteen 260 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 1: hundred and according to accounts that were recorded by Joseph Fouche, 261 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 1: who was the Parisian Minister of Police from seventeen fifteen 262 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 1: and who figures heavily in other parts of French history 263 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 1: in his eighteen sixteen books, so it would have been 264 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 1: right after he retired from his position. He wrote a 265 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 1: book called Archives of the Police, and in his book 266 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 1: he mentions a barber named Beck who, in cooperation with 267 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 1: a pastry cook named Mornay, committed a series of grizzly 268 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 1: murders and then uh Beck would hand off the bodies 269 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 1: to the cook for use in meat pies. Super familiar, No, Like, 270 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 1: I think I heard the story almost exactly the same 271 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 1: story on a stage play that the song is stuck 272 00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:59,880 Speaker 1: in ahead the whole time we've been talking. And although 273 00:14:59,920 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 1: the pastry cook in this version was a male, the um, 274 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 1: it's a little different, but it's so similar in every 275 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 1: other way. But this particular story is also a questionable authenticity. Uh. 276 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:16,520 Speaker 1: Some have asserted that uh Fuchet was trying to write 277 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 1: kind of a sensational book after his retirement from the police, 278 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 1: just kind of as a you know, a money making endeavor. Um. 279 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:27,840 Speaker 1: But it even though it was questioned, UH, it was 280 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 1: republished in London in a magazine called The tell Tale 281 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 1: in eighteen twenty four. So it's entirely possible that press 282 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 1: would have come across it at some point, although we 283 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 1: don't know for certain, and I didn't include it in 284 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 1: my notes. But there is also one other Parisian barber 285 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: murderer story that uh, I want to say, goes back 286 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 1: to the fourteen hundreds. It's really shadowy. There's not a 287 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 1: lot of details, but it is kind of the like 288 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 1: it's a barber and he slipped people's throats and then 289 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 1: meat by Yeah, just in a they're similar boogeyman kind 290 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 1: of story that Uh, there's really not much to go 291 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 1: on with that one, but I feel it's worth just 292 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 1: kind of a side mention, right, And there have been 293 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 1: numerous examinations of various elements of the story and all 294 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 1: kinds of books written about whether Sweeney Todd was a 295 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 1: real person. We don't really have conclusive evidence that there 296 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 1: is one person who was definitely the inspiration for Sweeney Todd, 297 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 1: but the barber and his cohort love it have become 298 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 1: part of the mythology of London. Yeah, a few years 299 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 1: ago there was a um, it's more than a few 300 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 1: but a while back there was a historian who claimed 301 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:37,760 Speaker 1: he had studied all of these things and wrote a 302 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 1: book that was about the real Sweeney Todd, but uh, 303 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 1: it really didn't cite a lot of actual sources, and 304 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 1: it it read very fictional. So it's been very, very controversial, 305 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 1: even though and I believe that historian has since passed 306 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 1: um and I think calling him historian um some people 307 00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 1: would take issue with, but so they're there have been 308 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 1: attempts to prove out that there was a real person here, 309 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:05,439 Speaker 1: But really the best we have to go on are 310 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:08,240 Speaker 1: some of these other things that probably we're feeding into 311 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:11,159 Speaker 1: the public consciousness and certainly would probably have come to 312 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: the attention of someone who routinely page through papers and 313 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:20,920 Speaker 1: police journals looking for story ideas. But the interesting thing 314 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 1: is really the life that happened to this character and 315 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:30,639 Speaker 1: and this story after um Press kind of let go 316 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 1: of it and let it be its own thing. Just 317 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:35,040 Speaker 1: you know, long after the publication of String of Pearls, 318 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:39,360 Speaker 1: we're still telling the boogeyman story of this slaughtering barber, uh, 319 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:41,879 Speaker 1: and this phenomenon. What's interesting about it is that it 320 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 1: started almost immediately after the story was published, Like it 321 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:47,880 Speaker 1: became such an instant hit. And I think we're so 322 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:50,720 Speaker 1: used to in modern media, Like, there will be things 323 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 1: that get very very popular and we glom onto them 324 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 1: and it's everywhere for a little while. It's kind of 325 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:58,400 Speaker 1: a flash in the pan, it dies off, but Sweetie 326 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 1: Thought has just kept going and going and going and 327 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:04,960 Speaker 1: going for more than fifteen decades. Yeah. So we mentioned 328 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 1: the seven melodrama staged by George Dibden pit but within 329 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:12,679 Speaker 1: months there were also knockoff versions of the story that 330 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 1: we're selling tickets all over London, which kind of reminds 331 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:18,119 Speaker 1: us of how Pressed got to start as an author 332 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:20,679 Speaker 1: and knocking off Charles Dickens. Yeah, there was just a 333 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 1: lot of um, a lot of knockoffs, coping. I was 334 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:26,960 Speaker 1: going to say creative borrowing, but that's way too kind. 335 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:29,359 Speaker 1: People really were just trying to trade in on the 336 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:34,120 Speaker 1: popularity of a thing by putting perpetually, you know, more 337 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:36,879 Speaker 1: slap dashy versions of things out. It's kind of like 338 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:38,679 Speaker 1: making a copy of a copy of a copy of 339 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:41,679 Speaker 1: a copy. Feel like that's still going on today. I 340 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:43,680 Speaker 1: think if I could time travel, one of the things 341 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 1: I would do would be to go back to London 342 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:47,480 Speaker 1: during this time and watch like eight different versions of 343 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:50,920 Speaker 1: the Sweeney Todd story and see how different or like 344 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 1: they were. And I bet some of them had crazy 345 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:56,720 Speaker 1: character name changes, which would be very entertaining. It's reminding 346 00:18:56,760 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 1: me of like the Halloween costumes that are clearly a 347 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 1: trademarked character but are not actually licensed. They're called They're 348 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:12,440 Speaker 1: called things like weird clown, like happy cookie, puppet, like sir. 349 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 1: I have a feeling the same thing was going on. Uh. 350 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:18,960 Speaker 1: In n six, Sweeney Todd got a new life in 351 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:22,400 Speaker 1: the first film adaptation of The Tail, and Sweeney Todd 352 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 1: was played by the actor Todd Slaughter, and Slaughter really 353 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:27,440 Speaker 1: got a lot of mileage out of this. He went 354 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:30,920 Speaker 1: on to play that role repeatedly in theatrical productions pretty 355 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 1: much for the rest of his career. So Sweeney gave 356 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:38,120 Speaker 1: back to the theatrical community in this regard. In nine, 357 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 1: the story was adapted into a ballet, which I find hilarious. 358 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 1: It was choreographed by John Cranko and performed by the 359 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:50,959 Speaker 1: Royal Ballet Company, and then Stephen Sondheim's musical version, Sweeney 360 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:54,359 Speaker 1: Todd the Demon Barber of Fleet Street, debuted on Broadway 361 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:57,359 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy nine, and it starts Angela Landsberry as 362 00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 1: Mrs Lovett and lend are you in the lead role 363 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:05,360 Speaker 1: and in March two, which I only just noticed late 364 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:09,480 Speaker 1: in the game. I think they debuted it at the 365 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 1: same time, like on the anniversary of its original stage debut. 366 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 1: Um but he gave. There's a somewhat mixed review of 367 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 1: the play in The New York Times by critic Richard Eater, 368 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:23,280 Speaker 1: and it stated that quote there is in fact no 369 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:26,920 Speaker 1: serious social social message in Sweeney And at the end, 370 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 1: when the cast lines up on the stage and points 371 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 1: to us singing, there are Sweeney's all about. The point 372 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 1: is unproven. These are defects, vital ones. But they are 373 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:40,680 Speaker 1: all failures of an extraordinary, fascinating and often ravishingly lovely effort. 374 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:43,720 Speaker 1: None of those are things that would make my review 375 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 1: of the musical Sweeney Todd a mixed review. Mine would 376 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:53,000 Speaker 1: mostly be that I don't super care for the sondheimdi 377 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:56,080 Speaker 1: of nature that makes Sondheim be Sonheim. Yeah, I'm not 378 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:58,960 Speaker 1: a huge sondheime fan, but his it is interesting because 379 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 1: it's It's um a fun review to read because he 380 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:05,880 Speaker 1: is clearly so taken with how beautifully the the show 381 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 1: is staged, but that he does kind of find it 382 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 1: a shrugger by the end of it, where he's like, 383 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:11,879 Speaker 1: I don't know, it was fun, it was fun. A 384 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:15,359 Speaker 1: couple of hours I have had the same, like one 385 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 1: line of the song about the demon Barbara, like the 386 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:22,320 Speaker 1: whole time we've been talking. I'm sorry, I've stuck in 387 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 1: my head. I've managed to stay earworm free, probably because 388 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 1: I'm not the hugest fan of musical to begin with. Well, 389 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:31,520 Speaker 1: that's that's part of my problem is I think that's 390 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 1: the only line from any of the songs in the 391 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 1: show that I know, and it's over and over well, 392 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:39,399 Speaker 1: and I mean, I'll confess I have the Tim Burton 393 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:41,640 Speaker 1: version and I watch it with some level of frequency, 394 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:45,120 Speaker 1: but it's largely about the costumes. Um, and it's it's 395 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 1: fun again and uh, Sasha Baron Cohen. So I think though, 396 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:53,920 Speaker 1: the reason I wanted to pull that out of Richard 397 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:57,359 Speaker 1: Eater's review was that I think he's onto something here 398 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:00,320 Speaker 1: about the appeal of Sweeney Todd, That it is this 399 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,960 Speaker 1: warning about a thing that's very terrifying and scary, but 400 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:07,160 Speaker 1: there's never been enough substantive proof to really make it 401 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:09,920 Speaker 1: feel life threatening. It's really kind of like an urban 402 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:13,919 Speaker 1: legend now it's like the sorority girl who wakes up 403 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 1: and finds her roommate has been murdered and there's writing 404 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:17,919 Speaker 1: in blood on the wall. Like it's that kind of 405 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:21,120 Speaker 1: story with that kind of appeal. Yeah, it's super scary, 406 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 1: but because you never know a person who actually went 407 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 1: through that, like, no one, you know. I'm sure someone 408 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 1: will say that they do, but most of those people 409 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:31,399 Speaker 1: probably don't want to talk about it and tell it 410 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 1: and kind of excited whispers, whereas this is one of 411 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:37,159 Speaker 1: those things that it's like and there's this demon barber 412 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,439 Speaker 1: and people could do that. You could get killed by 413 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:44,120 Speaker 1: a barber. But because there's not a grounding in reality, 414 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 1: it still maintains that excitement and the fervor around it. 415 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 1: It's thrilling without necessarily being actually scary. Yeah, and now 416 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:55,120 Speaker 1: I mean since um barber's and certainly barber surgeons are 417 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:57,879 Speaker 1: not really a thing. I mean, barber still are, but 418 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 1: not quite the same style that these would have been, 419 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:05,880 Speaker 1: it's even less of an immediate threat. So it's kind 420 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 1: of we can even glom on a little harder to 421 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:10,800 Speaker 1: the excitement of it. But even despite that kind of 422 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:14,400 Speaker 1: mediocre review, that production won eight tony Awards. I think 423 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,240 Speaker 1: largely because it was so unique at the time. Uh, 424 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 1: and it's been staged that sometimes. Version has been staged hundreds, 425 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:23,760 Speaker 1: if not thousands of times since by theater companies of 426 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,840 Speaker 1: all sizes. It's always a big ticket seller. I mean 427 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:28,879 Speaker 1: community theaters love to do it because they bring in 428 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:33,199 Speaker 1: huge audiences for them. Usually. Um, it's been done in 429 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 1: like every theater in America. Almost I wouldn't say that 430 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:39,320 Speaker 1: it was an actual fact, but it's almost that prolific. 431 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:41,560 Speaker 1: I wish there were a learner and low version of 432 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:45,200 Speaker 1: Sweeney Todd. I would be all into that. Or Riders 433 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:51,879 Speaker 1: in Hammerstein Sweeney Todd, super exciting Rellie Peppy Clink clink 434 00:23:51,920 --> 00:24:00,199 Speaker 1: clang with the razor Tracy no no okay. I went 435 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,680 Speaker 1: an interview with the BBC in two thousand five as 436 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 1: part of a press junket for a new adaptation of 437 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:09,680 Speaker 1: the Sweeney Todd story. Producer and writer Joshua st. Johnston 438 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:13,280 Speaker 1: relays that while he didn't find any solid evidence of 439 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:16,879 Speaker 1: a true demon barber of Todd's ilk, he could easily 440 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:19,040 Speaker 1: see how that kind of atrocity who could have gone 441 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:22,679 Speaker 1: almost unnoticed in London in the late seventeen hundreds. He 442 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:26,879 Speaker 1: describes the seventeen sixties worlds his research turned up as quote, 443 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,479 Speaker 1: a brutal and brutalizing world, and that we don't know 444 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:33,480 Speaker 1: of any real serial killers from that time might be 445 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:35,679 Speaker 1: more to do with the fact that murder was so 446 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,879 Speaker 1: easy to get away with, rather than that there weren't 447 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:43,639 Speaker 1: any um As a fun side note, uh In his 448 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 1: book Voice Will Be Boys, about the famed characters of 449 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:50,359 Speaker 1: Victorian Penny dreadfuls in the dicey publishing industry in Victorian London, 450 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,159 Speaker 1: writer E. S. Turner makes an interesting assertion that we 451 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:57,399 Speaker 1: can actually thank Sweeney Todd for the transition from the 452 00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:00,440 Speaker 1: use of the word barber to the word hairdresser, because 453 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 1: Barbara became so associated with horror for a while that 454 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:05,639 Speaker 1: it fell out of use in the general public. I 455 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:07,600 Speaker 1: don't know if that's true. I don't either. I didn't 456 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:09,840 Speaker 1: find anything to fact check it, but he kind of 457 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 1: tells that as like a an interesting tale about how 458 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,479 Speaker 1: the language evolved as a consequence. Yeah, I don't think 459 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:18,680 Speaker 1: when Patrick talks about getting his haircut, I don't think 460 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 1: he says that he goes to the hairdresser. Well, now, 461 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 1: but were you can make the argument that we've ebbed 462 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 1: back away, you know what I mean that at the 463 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:30,440 Speaker 1: time that Sweeney Todd was becoming popular in the eighteen hundreds, 464 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 1: for a while barbera stopped being quite as popular. Term 465 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:37,760 Speaker 1: hairdresser rose up, and now it's you don't even say hairdresser, 466 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 1: you say stylist. Anyway, Um, let's talk about the language. 467 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 1: You to talk about people who cut hair, yeah, and 468 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,639 Speaker 1: estheticians and all. There's plenty of other language. But that 469 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:51,320 Speaker 1: just was an interesting side note. Pressed, who we could 470 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:54,360 Speaker 1: call the father of Sweeney Todd, died of tuberculosis, which 471 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 1: I feel like has been a theme on the party 472 00:25:56,520 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 1: about tubercularis lately because it was extremely prev Yeah, and 473 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:04,399 Speaker 1: I certainly did not intend to find more tuberculous is 474 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 1: doing this one, but there it was on June five 475 00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 1: of eighteen fifty nine. And he was a popper at 476 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 1: the time even though he had created this, you know, 477 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 1: renowned and very long lived character. And Pressed was buried 478 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 1: in an unmarked grave as part of a popper's burial 479 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 1: that he was basically given by the government. But he's 480 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:24,560 Speaker 1: now recognized as one of the most widely read authors 481 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 1: of the eighteen forties and there's even a little bit 482 00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 1: of movement of people that are trying to um suggest 483 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:35,080 Speaker 1: that even though he was writing these uh basically plagiarized pieces, 484 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 1: that he was actually a much better author than people 485 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:39,880 Speaker 1: give him credit for. And I'll be interested to see 486 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:43,359 Speaker 1: where that goes in the coming years, if people can 487 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,280 Speaker 1: really put together some scholarship that makes that case clearly. 488 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 1: But it's interesting. Do you have some listener mail? I do, indeed, 489 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:55,199 Speaker 1: and this one is very, very fun. I love it 490 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:58,600 Speaker 1: and it's from our listener, Joe, and Joe says hello. 491 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,200 Speaker 1: I'm an avid listener to stuff umised in history. It 492 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,440 Speaker 1: gives me through car drives, paperwork and boring work events. 493 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:07,640 Speaker 1: I just listened to the podcast on the Nasca Lines 494 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:09,920 Speaker 1: and I loved it. Last year I traveled down to 495 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:13,119 Speaker 1: Peru and visited Lima, Cusco, and Machu Picchu. It was 496 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,560 Speaker 1: the trip of a lifetime. I can only imagine. I 497 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,240 Speaker 1: have not been, and I want to really bad. The 498 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:20,439 Speaker 1: city of Cusco is the most fascinating place I have 499 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:23,919 Speaker 1: ever been. You mentioned food being a primary motivation in travel. 500 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:27,959 Speaker 1: I agree, and Cousco was definitely a wonderful experience. I 501 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 1: had fresh quail eggs, served out of a hat coca 502 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 1: leaf tea for the fourteen thousand foot altitude and the 503 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:38,200 Speaker 1: highlight of the trip, Coyo. Coyo is guinea pig in Quechua, 504 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:40,920 Speaker 1: the ancient language that the people live the mountains speak. 505 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 1: I was there over Easter weekend and witnessed the traditional 506 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:47,600 Speaker 1: meal of coyo on a Holy Thursday, which they believe 507 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:50,679 Speaker 1: Jesus ate at the last supper. It tasted exactly like 508 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,680 Speaker 1: Canadian bacon, only in the shape of a guinea pig. 509 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:56,639 Speaker 1: We only managed a few tastes since we could not 510 00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 1: bear dismantling the poor childhood pet. Oh No, I don't 511 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:04,719 Speaker 1: think it was any child's actual pet, but that was association. This, 512 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 1: combined with the ambiance of the beautiful architecture in which 513 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:10,880 Speaker 1: the foundations and lower levels of the buildings u are 514 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,680 Speaker 1: inc and carved rock, and the tops of classical Spanish 515 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:18,119 Speaker 1: from the conquistadors, makes for a wonderful experience that sounds 516 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:21,200 Speaker 1: really fun and fabulous. I probably could not emotionally handle 517 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:25,760 Speaker 1: it because of that whole um animal connection thing. Ironically, 518 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 1: I'm not a vegetarian, right I want to be in 519 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,800 Speaker 1: my head, but it's difficult in my in my stomach, 520 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:35,000 Speaker 1: you know what. It reminds me of what there. There's 521 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,960 Speaker 1: a series of books that I like a lot that 522 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,640 Speaker 1: are about basically what if there were dragons daring the 523 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:44,480 Speaker 1: Napoleonic Wars? And they're the Tamor era books. And the 524 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:46,280 Speaker 1: third to last one, like the last one is not 525 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:50,280 Speaker 1: out yet, so one before the current one. They're in 526 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 1: uh there in South America. And some of the food 527 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,760 Speaker 1: they talk about talks about sounds like like the food Man. 528 00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 1: South American cooking doesn't get as much play I think 529 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 1: in the US in terms of like adopted cuisines from 530 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 1: other places, like the way other cuisines will kind of 531 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:10,600 Speaker 1: go through these surges and popularity. Peruvian is getting a 532 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:13,440 Speaker 1: little bit more play. But Resilience states there are some 533 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 1: really delicious stuff that we have no idea about you yet. 534 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:19,800 Speaker 1: But ye, that sounds so fun, And thank you so 535 00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,560 Speaker 1: much for sharing your your trip stories, because that sounds 536 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:26,120 Speaker 1: like an adventure beyond compare almost. Yes, I want to 537 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:28,000 Speaker 1: hear more about the Quai legs in the hat though? 538 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 1: How are they prepared? Where they cooked in the hat? 539 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 1: Did they just dump them in the hat? I gotta know? Uh, 540 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:37,800 Speaker 1: tell us if you have eaten things in hats, or 541 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:40,360 Speaker 1: you want to share anything else with us, you can 542 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 1: do so by emailing us at History Podcast at Discovery 543 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 1: dot com. You can also connect with us on Twitter 544 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,920 Speaker 1: at missed in History, and we're on Facebook dot com 545 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:52,240 Speaker 1: slash history class Stuff. We're also on tumbler at missed 546 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:55,000 Speaker 1: in History dot tumbler dot com, and we're on Pinterest 547 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:57,440 Speaker 1: pinning up a storm. Uh. If you would like to 548 00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 1: learn more about what we talked about today, I accept 549 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,560 Speaker 1: two things. One, you can go to our website and 550 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 1: search the term serial killer, which you'll turn up an 551 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 1: article called how serial Killers Work. And if you just 552 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 1: want to play, you can type in the words Sweeney 553 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:13,040 Speaker 1: Todd and the article that you will get is doesn't 554 00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:15,760 Speaker 1: matter how many blades are in your racer, which I 555 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:19,080 Speaker 1: just think is super funny and sort of a wonderfully uh, 556 00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:23,040 Speaker 1: you know, odd oddly associated thing. If you would like 557 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:25,440 Speaker 1: to learn about those things, or anything else your mind 558 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 1: can conjure, you can do that at our website, which 559 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 1: is how stuff Works dot com. 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