WEBVTT - A Soul Boom Discussion on Mental Health, Spirituality, and Connection with Rainn Wilson 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:04.560 We're wired for transcendence. Prayer and devotion does not have 0:00:04.680 --> 0:00:08.119 to be to an entity with a will and a beard, 0:00:08.320 --> 0:00:13.280 but connection to the greatest possible love and unity that 0:00:13.400 --> 0:00:24.639 binds us all and gives us our common humanity. Welcome 0:00:24.680 --> 0:00:25.720 to the One You Feed. 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:29.479 Throughout time, great thinkers have recognized the importance of the 0:00:29.520 --> 0:00:33.519 thoughts we have, quotes like garbage in, garbage out, or 0:00:33.800 --> 0:00:37.120 you are what you think, ring true, and yet for 0:00:37.240 --> 0:00:40.279 many of us, our thoughts don't strengthen or empower us. 0:00:40.640 --> 0:00:45.479 We tend toward negativity, self pity, jealousy, or fear. We 0:00:45.560 --> 0:00:47.720 see what we don't have instead of what we do. 0:00:48.280 --> 0:00:51.120 We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit. 0:00:51.760 --> 0:00:55.320 But it's not just about thinking. Our actions matter. It 0:00:55.360 --> 0:00:58.760 takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort to make a life 0:00:58.760 --> 0:01:02.240 worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep 0:01:02.280 --> 0:01:05.600 themselves moving in the right direction, how they feed their 0:01:05.680 --> 0:01:22.120 good wolf. Thanks for joining us. Our guest on this 0:01:22.280 --> 0:01:25.640 episode is a guest that has been on two previous times. 0:01:25.840 --> 0:01:28.840 He's closing in on the record of most appearances on 0:01:28.880 --> 0:01:37.040 The One You Feed. It is Rain Wilson, an American actor, comedian, podcaster, producer, writer, director, 0:01:37.480 --> 0:01:40.280 and the list goes on and on. You guys probably 0:01:40.319 --> 0:01:43.720 know him best as Dwight from the TV show The Office, 0:01:43.840 --> 0:01:47.119 but his accomplishments are so many I can't even begin 0:01:47.200 --> 0:01:50.320 to list them all. But most importantly for this episode 0:01:50.360 --> 0:01:53.640 is to mention his new book called Soul Boom, Why 0:01:53.720 --> 0:01:55.720 We Need a Spiritual Revolution. 0:01:56.120 --> 0:01:58.080 Hi, Rain, welcome to the show, Eric. 0:01:57.920 --> 0:01:59.760 Thanks for having me back thirds of Charm. 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:01.080 I'm really glad you're here. 0:02:01.200 --> 0:02:01.360 Rain. 0:02:01.480 --> 0:02:03.440 It's a pleasure to talk to you every time we 0:02:03.480 --> 0:02:05.000 get to do it. And today we're going to be 0:02:05.000 --> 0:02:08.359 discussing your latest book, which is called Soul Boom, Why 0:02:08.440 --> 0:02:11.760 we Need a Spiritual Revolution. But before we get into that, 0:02:11.800 --> 0:02:14.079 we will start like we always do with the Parable. 0:02:14.360 --> 0:02:16.360 In the Parable, there's a grandparent who's talking to their 0:02:16.400 --> 0:02:18.760 grandchild and they say, in life, there are two wolves 0:02:18.760 --> 0:02:21.359 inside of us that are always at battle. One is 0:02:21.400 --> 0:02:24.720 a good wolf, which represents things like kindness and bravery 0:02:24.760 --> 0:02:27.000 and love, and the other is a bad wolf, which 0:02:27.040 --> 0:02:30.120 represents things like greed and hatred and fear. And the 0:02:30.120 --> 0:02:32.679 grandchild stops and thinks about it for a second, looks 0:02:32.760 --> 0:02:35.400 up at their grandparent and they say, well, which one wins? 0:02:36.200 --> 0:02:39.160 And the grandparent says, the one you feed. So I'd 0:02:39.200 --> 0:02:41.400 like to start off by asking you what that parable 0:02:41.480 --> 0:02:44.040 means to you in your life and in the work 0:02:44.080 --> 0:02:44.480 that you do. 0:02:45.000 --> 0:02:46.560 Eric. As you know, I'm a huge fan of your 0:02:46.600 --> 0:02:50.679 podcast and you are og old school. You've been doing 0:02:50.720 --> 0:02:52.799 this for a long time. You've been in that kind 0:02:52.840 --> 0:02:58.440 of recovery mental health wellness space since the talkies were invented, right, 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:02.000 wasn't it? And I love how you frame the conversation 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:07.400 around that really exquisite story, and to me, it reminds 0:03:07.440 --> 0:03:09.640 me of a story from my faith, which is the 0:03:09.680 --> 0:03:14.200 Baha'i faith, and that is the son of the founder 0:03:14.240 --> 0:03:17.520 of the Bahai faith, who went by the title Abdul Baha, 0:03:17.560 --> 0:03:22.320 which means servant of Glory. He came to the United 0:03:22.320 --> 0:03:25.040 States a little over one hundred years ago and he 0:03:25.160 --> 0:03:28.360 was interviewed when he landed at the docks in New 0:03:28.440 --> 0:03:32.200 York City and there was a journalist there and they said, 0:03:32.240 --> 0:03:35.880 do Bahais do members of the Bahai faith believe in Satan? 0:03:36.960 --> 0:03:41.160 And Abdul Baha said, yes, Bahais believe in Satan. And 0:03:41.640 --> 0:03:43.440 the guy seemed a little surprised, and he said, oh, 0:03:44.400 --> 0:03:47.560 to a Bahai, what is Satan? And abdul Baha said, 0:03:47.600 --> 0:03:51.640 Satan is the insistent self. I love it, and I 0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:57.960 love that idea of the insistent self, because Satan not 0:03:58.200 --> 0:04:01.600 being some creature with a tale and red skin and 0:04:01.720 --> 0:04:05.560 who lives in an evil place. But Satan is inside 0:04:05.680 --> 0:04:09.200 all of us. It is the insistent self side of 0:04:09.200 --> 0:04:14.000 all of us, and we all have that insistent self, 0:04:14.120 --> 0:04:18.200 that ego that is a veil between us and God. 0:04:18.560 --> 0:04:21.240 To quote Rumy, the ego is a veil between us 0:04:21.279 --> 0:04:27.000 and God and keeps us in the mud. You know, 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:29.719 it keeps us with those qualities that you described, you know, 0:04:30.320 --> 0:04:39.400 greed and avarice, comparison, envy, aggression, fear and lust. And 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:44.320 so to me, the parable that you put at the 0:04:44.320 --> 0:04:48.160 centerpiece of your show is the number one most important 0:04:49.040 --> 0:04:55.239 spiritual path, spiritual battle that any and every human being walks. 0:04:55.400 --> 0:05:00.400 It's in every spiritual tradition, and it's the battle between 0:05:00.480 --> 0:05:03.560 us and our lower selves and our higher selves. And 0:05:03.640 --> 0:05:06.719 battle is a tough word. Almost feel bad about using 0:05:06.720 --> 0:05:10.200 the word battle because conflict is so inherent and baked 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:14.960 into that word. But a balance between these two sides 0:05:14.960 --> 0:05:19.000 of ourselves and the spiritual path for anyone, and no 0:05:19.040 --> 0:05:22.120 matter what your background, if you're spiritual not religious, and 0:05:22.200 --> 0:05:27.240 you struggle with God, if you're a Christian, if you're Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim, 0:05:27.320 --> 0:05:32.679 Bahai is always how do we keep the insistent self 0:05:32.720 --> 0:05:36.200 at bay? Recognize it as an important part of the 0:05:36.279 --> 0:05:39.560 human experience. We wouldn't be here as human beings if 0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:44.680 we didn't have greed, lust, avarice, aggression. Right one hundred 0:05:44.680 --> 0:05:48.200 thousand years ago, we probably need those qualities to keep 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:51.760 our tribes alive in our caves. They don't serve us 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:54.920 as much anymore. The stakes are much higher and much 0:05:54.960 --> 0:05:58.880 more insidious. So the spiritual path and all of these 0:05:58.880 --> 0:06:02.919 different faith traditions is feeding the wolf that isn't the 0:06:02.960 --> 0:06:03.800 insistent self. 0:06:04.160 --> 0:06:06.240 I love that answer. There's a few things in there 0:06:06.279 --> 0:06:09.360 to touch on. The insistent self is a great phrase. 0:06:09.440 --> 0:06:12.880 And I know you, like me, did some recovery work 0:06:12.920 --> 0:06:17.200 in twelve step programs, and I remember reading it was 0:06:17.240 --> 0:06:20.960 the AA Big Book. I wasn't sober very long. I 0:06:21.000 --> 0:06:24.359 was twenty five years old and had been a homeless 0:06:24.360 --> 0:06:27.440 heroin addict and I remember reading there's a section in 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:30.039 there that talks about and it says it a little 0:06:30.040 --> 0:06:34.200 bit bluntly maybe for today's world, but it says selfishness, 0:06:34.240 --> 0:06:38.280 self centeredness that we think is the root of our problem. 0:06:38.360 --> 0:06:40.560 I really got it, and like in a moment, I 0:06:40.640 --> 0:06:44.119 remember that moment of like, instead of that being something 0:06:44.160 --> 0:06:48.560 that made me defend myself, I just suddenly went like, oh, yeah, Like, 0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:51.600 all I do is think about myself. All I do 0:06:51.720 --> 0:06:54.240 is think about like how I feel and how I'm 0:06:54.279 --> 0:06:56.800 going to modify how I feel by whatever chemical I 0:06:56.839 --> 0:06:59.279 can get my hands on. But it is an entirely 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:05.560 self centered pursuit. And so right, that phrase, the insistent self, 0:07:05.560 --> 0:07:08.359 I love because I do think that you know, we 0:07:08.440 --> 0:07:11.880 all know we need some degree of self and desire 0:07:12.000 --> 0:07:15.640 and will to function in the world. But that phrase 0:07:15.720 --> 0:07:19.120 insistent talks to me about that being out of the 0:07:19.160 --> 0:07:21.920 other word you use there, which is balance. Right. I 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:24.360 don't love the word battle either, you know, I think 0:07:24.360 --> 0:07:27.080 these things are a balance, but the insistent self gives 0:07:27.120 --> 0:07:29.720 me a very clear like, Oh, it's the self that 0:07:29.880 --> 0:07:34.040 just keeps carrying on beyond when it's useful and beyond 0:07:34.080 --> 0:07:37.360 when it's helpful. And so thanks for sharing that phrase. 0:07:37.360 --> 0:07:38.000 I love that one. 0:07:38.280 --> 0:07:39.440 Thanks Thanks Eric. 0:07:39.840 --> 0:07:41.760 One of the things that you talk a lot about 0:07:41.800 --> 0:07:44.960 in the book is the importance of finding a spiritual 0:07:45.000 --> 0:07:48.560 path that resonates with us individually. This is a big 0:07:48.600 --> 0:07:51.280 piece of your work in general, I would say, and 0:07:51.320 --> 0:07:56.200 I would be curious if somebody is coming to this 0:07:56.360 --> 0:08:00.960 and wants to develop a spiritual life of some sort, 0:08:01.320 --> 0:08:03.960 but they've either come out of a tradition that no 0:08:04.040 --> 0:08:07.080 longer makes sense to them, or they don't really know 0:08:07.320 --> 0:08:10.000 what they believe in or feel like, how do you 0:08:10.040 --> 0:08:12.840 think about people getting started on this path? 0:08:13.160 --> 0:08:16.880 That's a great question. I wish I had an easy answer, 0:08:16.880 --> 0:08:18.880 and I wish I had kind of had more time 0:08:18.920 --> 0:08:21.040 to formulate this. It feels like that could be a 0:08:21.040 --> 0:08:24.040 book just on itself, just answering. 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:26.040 That really could it Probably could, Yeah. 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:29.120 That question. I think the Twelve Steps do it very 0:08:29.160 --> 0:08:33.240 well by first kind of defining what a higher power 0:08:33.440 --> 0:08:36.040 looks like, and that can be tricky for a lot 0:08:36.040 --> 0:08:38.760 of people in recovery and a lot of people on 0:08:38.800 --> 0:08:42.160 a spiritual path. One of the things we explore on 0:08:42.200 --> 0:08:47.040 the New Soul Boom podcast is the concept that for 0:08:47.120 --> 0:08:52.320 a lot of people, their religion or faith journey is 0:08:52.360 --> 0:08:56.320 the most inspiring, uplifting thing they'll ever encounter, and the 0:08:56.360 --> 0:08:58.560 most meaningful thing they'll ever encounter. And for a lot 0:08:58.600 --> 0:09:02.120 of people, their faith and spirituality journey is the most 0:09:02.160 --> 0:09:06.600 traumatic thing that has scarred them the most, So we 0:09:06.679 --> 0:09:09.240 have to be very conscious of that. There can be 0:09:09.320 --> 0:09:13.320 a great deal of religious trauma. But that's one way 0:09:13.480 --> 0:09:17.080 I think. You know, meditation is super important to my recovery, 0:09:17.160 --> 0:09:20.840 my mental health journey, and that's a pretty easy thing 0:09:21.200 --> 0:09:24.960 to undertake. That doesn't require a lot of belief and 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:27.600 a lot of knowledge, and you can just sit quietly, 0:09:27.800 --> 0:09:31.640 preferably you know, maybe outside, maybe in under a tree 0:09:31.760 --> 0:09:34.200 or something like that, and even just take five or 0:09:34.200 --> 0:09:36.760 ten minutes to just quiet the mind and breathe and 0:09:36.800 --> 0:09:38.520 be in the moment. You don't have to do anything 0:09:38.559 --> 0:09:41.720 fancy around that. And then I have a chapter in 0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:46.200 the book about sacred pilgrimages, the sacred Pilgrims I call it, 0:09:46.240 --> 0:09:51.600 and the idea of finding what is sacred in daily 0:09:51.679 --> 0:09:57.160 life in our modern world with our phones buzzing and 0:09:57.240 --> 0:10:00.600 emails that need returning and cost co parking lots, and 0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:04.200 how do you find the sacred in that world? The 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:10.680 main thing for me is to consider the idea. The 0:10:10.760 --> 0:10:14.800 quote I often go to is from Father Tehart de Chardin, 0:10:15.360 --> 0:10:18.839 who says we are not human beings having a spiritual experience. 0:10:19.440 --> 0:10:25.120 We are spiritual beings having a human experience. And when 0:10:25.200 --> 0:10:29.920 I am reminded of my spiritual reality, that's where I begin, 0:10:30.120 --> 0:10:33.160 and that's where I begin every day, Like, yes, I 0:10:33.200 --> 0:10:37.120 have this insistent self, I have Rain Wilson. I've got 0:10:37.120 --> 0:10:41.360 this big, middle aged, fleshy body from suburban Seattle. My 0:10:41.480 --> 0:10:44.680 body has certain needs. It likes to overeat, you know. 0:10:45.200 --> 0:10:48.360 And I have an ego, you know, And I'm in 0:10:48.400 --> 0:10:50.840 Hollywood and I'm like, oh, why did so and so 0:10:50.960 --> 0:10:53.080 get that part and I didn't? And why didn't I 0:10:53.120 --> 0:10:56.520 get considered for this role? And why am I not 0:10:56.559 --> 0:11:00.520 getting paid that? And you know, it's really really difficult 0:11:00.600 --> 0:11:06.160 to sidestep that in show business and release that. But 0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:09.200 when I remember that I am a spiritual being having 0:11:09.200 --> 0:11:12.720 a human experience, that can inform the choices that I 0:11:12.800 --> 0:11:16.000 make and the path that I walk. Wherever that takes you. 0:11:16.000 --> 0:11:18.920 You know, that can take you to indigenous Native American 0:11:18.960 --> 0:11:22.080 spiritual beliefs. It can take you to transcendental meditation. It 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:27.040 can take you to mystical Catholicism. You know, the Vedas 0:11:27.040 --> 0:11:31.120 and Upanishads, the Buddha. But it is a universal in 0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:35.240 all religious traditions that we have a spiritual higher component, 0:11:35.280 --> 0:11:37.280 a spirit, a soul, whatever you want to call it. 0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:43.720 And how then do we step by step clear space 0:11:43.800 --> 0:11:50.520 in our lives to feed, nourish, contemplate, and embrace the 0:11:50.600 --> 0:11:51.880 spiritual side of ourselves. 0:11:52.080 --> 0:11:54.400 Yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me. Listener, 0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:57.400 while you were listening to that, what resonated with you? 0:11:58.000 --> 0:12:01.160 What one thing to feed your good wolf comes to mind? 0:12:01.800 --> 0:12:03.880 If the thing that came to your mind was more 0:12:03.920 --> 0:12:06.920 time for stillness, or you've tried meditation before and you 0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:09.360 really haven't liked it, then I want to give you 0:12:09.400 --> 0:12:10.800 a quick tip that might make. 0:12:10.679 --> 0:12:11.320 It better for you. 0:12:11.760 --> 0:12:15.079 And it's simply to stop expecting that you're not going 0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:19.480 to have thoughts. Nearly everyone has this expectation that they're 0:12:19.480 --> 0:12:21.319 going to sit down and meditate and they're going to 0:12:21.400 --> 0:12:24.280 stop having thoughts. And when they stop having thoughts, that 0:12:24.320 --> 0:12:27.079 means they're doing it well. But no one does that, 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:29.959 and so we end up feeling like we're failing all 0:12:30.040 --> 0:12:33.600 of the time, every three seconds, failed again, failed again. 0:12:34.080 --> 0:12:38.000 We develop a relationship with meditation that is aversive. So 0:12:38.120 --> 0:12:41.040 if you want to stop dreading meditation and actually find 0:12:41.080 --> 0:12:44.520 it relaxing. Check out my free meditation guide at Goodwolf 0:12:44.600 --> 0:12:47.120 dot me slash calm. In it, I walk you through 0:12:47.160 --> 0:12:49.920 my process to engage with meditation in a new way, 0:12:50.360 --> 0:12:52.480 and a lot of people have found it really helpful. 0:12:52.600 --> 0:12:56.120 That's good Wolf dot me slash calm. As far as 0:12:56.240 --> 0:12:58.800 your life and the things that you know you get 0:12:58.840 --> 0:13:01.720 caught up in, I don't wish anybody getting caught up 0:13:01.720 --> 0:13:04.040 in anything, But what I like about that is there's 0:13:04.040 --> 0:13:06.920 this real tendency of a lot of people to look 0:13:07.040 --> 0:13:10.040 up right, and we think, well, so and so their 0:13:10.120 --> 0:13:13.280 life must be just fine, it must be great because 0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:15.439 it has these things in it that I want. Right, 0:13:15.880 --> 0:13:18.559 and you're a person that you know, the vast majority 0:13:18.600 --> 0:13:21.080 of the actors on the planet would look up at right. 0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:22.800 There's a lot of actors on the planet and go, God, 0:13:22.840 --> 0:13:24.760 if I could have a career like that, right, if 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:28.000 I could just I love those examples because I think 0:13:28.040 --> 0:13:31.720 it shows that for all of us as humans, regardless 0:13:31.760 --> 0:13:35.440 of where we're situated in different places, that there are 0:13:35.480 --> 0:13:38.520 ways to be unhappy where we are, and there are 0:13:38.559 --> 0:13:41.400 ways to be happier where we are, Like right, where 0:13:41.440 --> 0:13:43.600 we sit. And this is not to say, you know, 0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:46.160 like that if somebody is living on three dollars a 0:13:46.240 --> 0:13:48.040 day that like they should just be able to be 0:13:48.040 --> 0:13:49.920 as happy as everybody else. That's not what I'm trying 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:52.760 to say. But I'm saying that speaking to that general 0:13:52.800 --> 0:13:54.600 sense we all have of I would just be happy 0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:56.800 if I got X, right, I know, and I look 0:13:56.800 --> 0:13:59.200 at my own life, I'm like, I got a lot 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:02.800 of X that I wanted, and I am happier. But 0:14:02.840 --> 0:14:05.120 I don't think it's because of that, right, I think 0:14:05.160 --> 0:14:08.760 it's because I've continued to try and develop along as 0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:10.559 you would say, spiritual lines. 0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:15.600 One hundred percent. So all of contemporary society in Western 0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:21.760 civilization wires us and motivates us to seek happiness outside 0:14:21.760 --> 0:14:25.680 of ourselves. So we just keep reaching for more. We 0:14:25.720 --> 0:14:27.160 want to make more money, we want to have a 0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:30.240 better relationship, we want to live longer, we want to 0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:34.120 look more youthful, we want to own more stuff. And 0:14:34.280 --> 0:14:36.640 you know, going back to our caveman ancestors, it makes 0:14:36.680 --> 0:14:38.920 total sense. You know, if you had a lot of 0:14:39.080 --> 0:14:42.840 deer jerky and a lot of you know, beaver pelts, 0:14:43.400 --> 0:14:46.960 you know, and berries in your cave and you had 0:14:47.000 --> 0:14:50.720 a lot of like eligible mates, you know, in your cave, 0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:55.160 you would thrive. So the acquiring of stuff and the 0:14:55.280 --> 0:15:00.840 need for stuff is hardwired into our brain stems, but 0:15:00.960 --> 0:15:04.000 it doesn't help us so much in the modern world. 0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:08.680 I was really lucky to do this television show I 0:15:08.800 --> 0:15:11.880 was on the Peacock Network last year called Rain Wilson 0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:15.680 and the Geography of Bliss. And it was traveling around 0:15:15.680 --> 0:15:19.720 the world looking at happiness in other cultures and what 0:15:19.880 --> 0:15:23.720 brings people joy and bliss and what we can learn 0:15:23.760 --> 0:15:26.960 from other cultures and bring back home to America. And 0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:31.800 you know, the thing that I found is really quite simple, 0:15:32.400 --> 0:15:38.520 and it was so revelatory, and it's connection. We really 0:15:38.920 --> 0:15:44.200 thrive in connection, and we really waste away in isolation. 0:15:45.280 --> 0:15:48.920 And this is also how we're wired. So you know 0:15:48.960 --> 0:15:51.760 what wolf are we feeding. We're putting away the you know, 0:15:51.800 --> 0:15:55.240 the materialist pursuits of seeking happiness outside of ourselves and 0:15:55.760 --> 0:15:59.480 finding connection. And that is certainly human connection and finding 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:04.640 tribes and communities and like minded people or different minded people, 0:16:05.120 --> 0:16:07.840 but it's also connection with nature. It's connection with the 0:16:07.880 --> 0:16:10.840 higher power. We long to be connected. That would be 0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:15.200 the only other than turning inward and seeking, you know, 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:19.120 peace from the kind of agitated unquiet that we walk 0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:22.000 the world. It's connection and I got to experience that 0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:26.480 in Iceland and Thailand and in Ghana, West Africa, and 0:16:27.120 --> 0:16:30.200 it's helped me bring it home to my life here 0:16:30.200 --> 0:16:31.480 in Los Angeles. 0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:34.240 I agree. I mean, to me the words spiritual, You 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:36.480 and I have slightly different definitions, and maybe we can 0:16:36.520 --> 0:16:38.840 go into that in a second. Right, for me, spiritual 0:16:38.920 --> 0:16:41.920 is all about To me, it just means connecting with 0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:44.440 the things that really matter. That's kind of it for me. 0:16:44.800 --> 0:16:46.200 I'd love to ask you what it means to you 0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:47.840 in a second, but I don't want to miss this 0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:50.800 discussion of your TV show, which sounds delightful. I'm going 0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:52.240 to need to figure out how I can get National 0:16:52.360 --> 0:16:56.080 Geographic to watch it. Peacock, Peacock, Peacock, Okay, all right, 0:16:56.120 --> 0:16:57.080 that's easier to figure out. 0:16:57.200 --> 0:16:59.640 Yeah, you just get the free month on the Peacock 0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:01.560 and just watch. 0:17:01.320 --> 0:17:05.320 It and then and then forget to cancel, forget to cantnam. Kidding. 0:17:05.680 --> 0:17:09.639 You've done a lot of studying of different cultures, particularly 0:17:09.640 --> 0:17:12.760 in the spiritual dimension, for a long time now, right, 0:17:12.920 --> 0:17:16.920 you're really well read in the spiritual literature. I'm curious though, 0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:18.840 as you went out and traveled, it sounds like there 0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:21.680 was this overarching thing that you sort of got, which 0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:25.200 was connection. But were there any other things in that 0:17:25.200 --> 0:17:28.679 that surprised you or that was like a new angle 0:17:28.720 --> 0:17:30.720 on something you were like, Wow, I never thought of 0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:32.480 it that way before. I'm just kind of curious for 0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:35.000 another takeaway out of that experience. 0:17:35.880 --> 0:17:39.199 Yeah, boy, I mean there's so much. One of the 0:17:39.240 --> 0:17:42.199 big disconnects we have in the modern world is our 0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:45.600 connection with nature. I was reading recently and it's an 0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:48.200 easy thing to google, Like how much time people spend 0:17:48.280 --> 0:17:52.919 outdoors is astonishingly low. You know, usually less than an 0:17:52.920 --> 0:17:56.840 hour a day, and that's amazing when we used to 0:17:56.880 --> 0:17:59.800 spend twenty four hours a day outdoors, or at least 0:17:59.800 --> 0:18:02.880 twelve hours a day outdoors. Take the people of Iceland, 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:05.600 for instance. You know a lot of times they're forced 0:18:05.640 --> 0:18:09.920 inside during the very cold winters, but their relationship, their 0:18:09.960 --> 0:18:16.160 connection to nature is incredibly profound. Their love, the Icelandic 0:18:16.359 --> 0:18:20.680 love of the glaciers and the volcanoes and the hot 0:18:20.720 --> 0:18:26.080 springs and the waterfalls and the geysers that populate their island. 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:32.600 They really worship that aspect of being Icelandic, an intensely 0:18:32.720 --> 0:18:37.080 burning love for nature and for their island. I found 0:18:37.119 --> 0:18:40.359 the same thing to be in Ghana and in Thailand 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:45.000 as well, and it's something that I realized was very 0:18:45.080 --> 0:18:46.760 much missing in my life. I mean, I try and 0:18:46.760 --> 0:18:49.720 take a big camping trip every summer, and you know, 0:18:49.760 --> 0:18:51.960 I like to take dog walks and you know, go 0:18:52.000 --> 0:18:56.439 down to the beach sometimes. But to really prioritize nature 0:18:56.600 --> 0:19:00.800 time is a big part of a spiritual pathntal health path, 0:19:00.880 --> 0:19:04.240 a wellness path. And it sounds good, yeah, yeah, oh yeah, 0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:06.800 more trees, more nature, It sounds good. But you know 0:19:06.840 --> 0:19:10.000 what would it take to really prioritize, like to measure 0:19:10.080 --> 0:19:12.439 like how much time do you spend outside? How do 0:19:12.480 --> 0:19:16.480 you increase that? Can you take being vaguely outside to 0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:20.040 being committedly outside and can you get out two or 0:19:20.040 --> 0:19:22.600 three times in the year into the wilderness and where 0:19:22.600 --> 0:19:27.000 there's not a phone and there's just trees, and how 0:19:27.000 --> 0:19:30.600 does that feed yourself? It's very common sense, but I 0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:33.720 think it has had a profound effect on the mental 0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:36.280 health crisis that we've been undergoing over the last twenty 0:19:36.320 --> 0:19:37.120 or thirty years. 0:19:37.359 --> 0:19:40.840 Yeah, it's really hard like I prioritize being in nature, 0:19:41.119 --> 0:19:43.560 and I bet I'm under an hour a day average, 0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:47.679 And that's with me even trying, you know, just given 0:19:48.040 --> 0:19:49.920 you know the nature of a lot of the way 0:19:49.960 --> 0:19:52.600 my life is structured. And yet I know for me 0:19:52.680 --> 0:19:56.360 it is a really valuable thing. There's something about it. 0:19:56.440 --> 0:19:59.719 I think it's helpful on many levels for me. One 0:19:59.760 --> 0:20:02.560 of the levels is like I can just walk outside 0:20:02.600 --> 0:20:04.480 and it's beautiful and I can be like, you know what, 0:20:04.960 --> 0:20:09.160 this costs absolutely nothing, and this is always available. It's 0:20:09.200 --> 0:20:11.560 like this resource is here. It's how I feel about 0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:15.000 libraries too. I walk into a library, I just feel happy, 0:20:15.160 --> 0:20:17.199 you know, it's like this is amazing, Like, you know, 0:20:17.480 --> 0:20:20.479 look at this repository of hope and possibility that like 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:24.240 I can just walk into nature has that similar. Obviously 0:20:24.280 --> 0:20:27.199 it's working on different mechanisms, but there's a correlation to 0:20:27.240 --> 0:20:30.080 me about something about this resource that's always there. 0:20:30.840 --> 0:20:37.280 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Another aspect around Bliss is very simply 0:20:37.960 --> 0:20:42.320 doing things for other people, being of service, and they've 0:20:42.640 --> 0:20:45.720 done countless studies in the field of positive psychology around this. 0:20:46.119 --> 0:20:50.520 That again, contemporary Western society says, you know, me, me me, 0:20:51.440 --> 0:20:54.119 you know it's me time to take care of yourself, 0:20:54.240 --> 0:20:59.159 get stuff for yourself, acquire stuff, putting yourself first and foremost. 0:20:59.640 --> 0:21:03.680 But in actuality, when we are of service to others, 0:21:03.760 --> 0:21:09.040 when we prioritize others and sacrificing of our time, of 0:21:09.080 --> 0:21:13.119 our attention, of our status, of our resources for others, 0:21:13.440 --> 0:21:15.960 it gives us a great, deep sense of fulfillment. I'll 0:21:15.960 --> 0:21:18.720 never forget meeting this woman in Thailand, and this is 0:21:18.880 --> 0:21:22.120 a common practice in Thailand that every year for her 0:21:22.240 --> 0:21:28.080 birthday she goes and hands out food and is of 0:21:28.160 --> 0:21:32.320 service to the monks that live in very impoverished state 0:21:32.440 --> 0:21:35.720 in the monasteries and hands out food to the poor. 0:21:35.840 --> 0:21:39.479 So her birthday is a service day to others. And 0:21:39.560 --> 0:21:43.720 I thought that is really beautiful and one ady opposite 0:21:43.800 --> 0:21:47.480 of America where it's all about celebrating ourselves and getting 0:21:47.520 --> 0:21:49.000 cake and presents for ourselves. 0:21:49.080 --> 0:21:52.680 Yeah, that's a great story. So I mentioned what spirituality 0:21:52.720 --> 0:21:55.280 means to me about just being connected to the things 0:21:55.280 --> 0:21:58.600 that matter most. What is a working definition for you? 0:21:58.960 --> 0:22:03.000 Well, the Oxford Dictiontionary talks about spirituality as being being 0:22:03.080 --> 0:22:06.720 concerned with the non material aspects of life, So that 0:22:06.760 --> 0:22:09.720 goes hand in hand with what you're saying. In my 0:22:10.359 --> 0:22:13.720 faith tradition, there is a metaphor that I love to 0:22:13.760 --> 0:22:18.480 look at that helps elucidate this idea, and that is 0:22:18.560 --> 0:22:23.160 the baby in the womb. I believe, and Bahais believe 0:22:23.200 --> 0:22:28.240 in many other faith traditions, believe that there is a 0:22:28.280 --> 0:22:34.919 divine eternal aspect to myself. That is, my consciousness is 0:22:35.040 --> 0:22:39.800 not just a random assortment of molecules and neurons firing 0:22:39.840 --> 0:22:43.120 in a brain that has given me a personality and perspective, 0:22:43.520 --> 0:22:46.720 and I'm not just an elevated ape or monkey, but 0:22:46.960 --> 0:22:52.639 that my consciousness is partially connected to my corporeal existence, 0:22:53.160 --> 0:22:57.199 and it's part juices and electricity and gray matter, and 0:22:57.240 --> 0:23:00.600 it is also my consciousness the part of me that 0:23:00.800 --> 0:23:03.680 weeps at a poem, the part of me that longs 0:23:03.720 --> 0:23:07.720 for connection, that beams when I hold a baby that 0:23:08.440 --> 0:23:12.159 size when I see a sunset, That this part of 0:23:12.240 --> 0:23:16.719 myself is of this world and yet not of this world. 0:23:17.160 --> 0:23:21.320 The metaphor is the babies in the womb. So a 0:23:21.359 --> 0:23:23.679 baby in a womb. We were all in a womb, 0:23:24.359 --> 0:23:27.840 and when we were in that womb, we had no 0:23:27.920 --> 0:23:31.119 idea you and I eric that we would be on 0:23:31.800 --> 0:23:36.120