WEBVTT - Moving Through this Moment 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:14.600 Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wik f Daily with 0:00:14.720 --> 0:00:19.799 Meet your Girl Danielle Moody, recording from the Home Bunker. Folks, today, 0:00:20.560 --> 0:00:23.959 get into a conversation with our friend or in house doctor, 0:00:23.960 --> 0:00:30.240 doctor Jonathan Metzel about just the exhaustion that we're feeling 0:00:30.760 --> 0:00:36.239 and asking him, as you know, a psychologist, how do 0:00:36.320 --> 0:00:39.880 we move through this moment? And you know, I'll say 0:00:39.880 --> 0:00:43.519 that I was surprised by Jonathan's answer, which you all 0:00:43.560 --> 0:00:48.000 will hear in a bit, But what I will say is, 0:00:48.520 --> 0:00:50.920 you know, something to the effect of what I posted 0:00:51.040 --> 0:00:54.520 earlier this week, which is this, and I was specifically 0:00:54.640 --> 0:00:57.880 talking about the Supreme Court, because if you've been following 0:00:57.920 --> 0:01:01.880 the Supreme Court this week, my god, are they so 0:01:02.120 --> 0:01:07.360 fucking clear about who is allowed to protest in America, 0:01:07.720 --> 0:01:11.160 namely white insurrectionists that are trying to overthrow the government 0:01:11.280 --> 0:01:13.800 who they've decided that they're no longer going to look 0:01:13.840 --> 0:01:18.800 at the obstruction law because apparently building a gallows, beating 0:01:18.920 --> 0:01:24.720 up police officers, apparently that's not an issue that's apparently patriotic. 0:01:25.120 --> 0:01:31.040 But organizing a march after the killing of George Floyd, 0:01:31.080 --> 0:01:35.760 which is what Deray mckennison did, now that somehow is 0:01:36.880 --> 0:01:41.280 criminal and you can be held liable for the organization 0:01:41.560 --> 0:01:46.040 of said rally if in fact somebody, namely a police officer, 0:01:46.360 --> 0:01:50.240 is hurt. It's bullshit and I'm fucking over it. And 0:01:50.280 --> 0:01:53.760 what I said is this, the Supreme Court of the 0:01:53.840 --> 0:01:57.520 United States has effectively banned mass protests in three states, 0:01:57.800 --> 0:02:00.800 feels uncomfortable with the use of an abstruct law for 0:02:00.880 --> 0:02:04.080 the insurrectionists that tried to overthrow our election, and are 0:02:04.080 --> 0:02:07.960 slow walking the presidential immunity case for Trump where all 0:02:08.000 --> 0:02:12.040 we got vote? And what do I mean by that? 0:02:12.680 --> 0:02:17.800 I think that for the last several years, right under 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:24.080 trump Ism and MAGA, that we have been looking to 0:02:24.639 --> 0:02:28.920 external forces to save us right to shake this you 0:02:28.960 --> 0:02:33.280 know country that it has been I don't know, lulled 0:02:33.320 --> 0:02:39.119 into complacency or are under the spell of the world's 0:02:39.120 --> 0:02:43.560 greatest grifter, Donald Trump. We've been looking to the courts, 0:02:44.080 --> 0:02:48.840 We've been looking to you know, our elected officials to 0:02:48.960 --> 0:02:53.040 do what's right, and no one has right to this point. 0:02:53.960 --> 0:02:58.040 And what I realize is that the only people that 0:02:58.160 --> 0:03:02.399 can save us are us. We're the last defense against 0:03:02.919 --> 0:03:09.880 the final death knew of trump Ism. Now you can 0:03:10.040 --> 0:03:12.640 say to yourself well, you know, we have Joe Biden, 0:03:12.800 --> 0:03:15.880 and we lost abortion and we lost afirmative action. Those 0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:19.440 things are true. We also have to remember that Donald Trump, 0:03:19.480 --> 0:03:23.960 because he was president and elected in twenty sixteen and 0:03:24.080 --> 0:03:28.080 sworn in in twenty seventeen, because of America's deep seated 0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:31.880 misogyny and hatred for women, he had the ability to 0:03:32.000 --> 0:03:36.920 appoint not one, not two, but three Supreme Court justices. Right, 0:03:37.440 --> 0:03:46.920 So we're here because of America's desire for a strong man. 0:03:47.000 --> 0:03:51.120 We're here because apparently Hillary Clinton's emails were just too 0:03:51.160 --> 0:03:55.520 overwhelming that we decided to go with a four times 0:03:55.600 --> 0:03:59.960 now indicted, ninety one charged fucking criminal to be our 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:03.640 president of the United States. We didn't know the extent 0:04:03.720 --> 0:04:06.800 of his crimes that he would commit while in office, 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:08.880 but was sure as hell knew who the fuck he 0:04:09.080 --> 0:04:12.720 was before when he was on Access Hollywood talking about 0:04:12.720 --> 0:04:14.720 I can grab them by the pussy. That should have 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:19.599 been disqualifying enough. So we were able to stave off 0:04:19.640 --> 0:04:21.800 Donald Trump in twenty twenty in the midst of a 0:04:21.800 --> 0:04:25.400 global health pandemic. And folks, if we have the ability 0:04:25.440 --> 0:04:30.159 to do it one last time, Donald Trump's fucking I 0:04:30.200 --> 0:04:33.120 don't know benefit of the doubt will finally have run 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:39.000 its fucking course, and those criminal cases and those court 0:04:39.040 --> 0:04:43.080 cases will now have full breath and will be full 0:04:43.120 --> 0:04:46.000 steam ahead because the excuse of the election and the 0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:49.280 excuse of him being a candidate will no longer be there. 0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:53.279 So if we can hang the fuck on and do 0:04:53.360 --> 0:04:56.839 what is necessary, even though it is hard, even though 0:04:56.880 --> 0:05:00.800 we may not like it, then we can live to 0:05:00.880 --> 0:05:04.440 fight another day. And so, you know, with the exhaustion, 0:05:04.640 --> 0:05:07.440 with the grief, with the weariness, I get into a 0:05:07.480 --> 0:05:12.040 conversation with our friend, doctor Jonathan Mepzil, about how we 0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:18.440 continue to move forward. Folks. You know, whenever we have 0:05:18.480 --> 0:05:21.960 the opportunity to chat with our in house doctor, doctor 0:05:22.040 --> 0:05:28.400 Jonathan Mepzil, I am always pleased and happy. Jonathan, How 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:30.080 are you please? 0:05:30.680 --> 0:05:32.479 I like how you put that. That's how I feel. 0:05:33.080 --> 0:05:37.560 No please, you know, yeah, I'm hanging in there. I mean, 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:39.800 you know, what can you do at this point? We 0:05:39.920 --> 0:05:43.520 have we have bird flu in our eggs, you know, 0:05:44.160 --> 0:05:45.800 but it's a beautiful day outside, so. 0:05:47.279 --> 0:05:50.200 You know, well, I want to start off honestly, because 0:05:50.920 --> 0:05:53.040 I've been in a lot of meetings and a lot 0:05:53.040 --> 0:06:00.000 of conversations where people are feeling this rise in frenetic energy. 0:06:00.320 --> 0:06:04.960 They are feeling like things in our society, in the 0:06:05.000 --> 0:06:10.440 world are just moving rapidly in the wrong direction. And 0:06:10.760 --> 0:06:13.040 you know, we are getting close to the six month 0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:17.640 mark until this presidential election, and I want to come 0:06:17.680 --> 0:06:20.880 to you as our in house doctor and saying like, 0:06:21.760 --> 0:06:27.560 how do people manage emotionally during this time as everything 0:06:27.880 --> 0:06:32.760 is becoming incredibly just devastatingly overwhelming. 0:06:34.040 --> 0:06:36.120 Well, thank you, and I'm going to then ask you 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:39.120 a question as an in house social media expert after 0:06:39.400 --> 0:06:43.920 I answer that question. Sure, But I mean it's funny 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:46.000 because like I feel like for people like you and I, 0:06:46.240 --> 0:06:48.440 we were kind of built for this moment. Like I'm 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:51.000 always doing nine hundred things and the world's always coming 0:06:51.040 --> 0:06:55.680 to an end and it's not pleasant. But like my 0:06:55.760 --> 0:06:59.200 brother said to me there day, he said, sometimes the 0:06:59.200 --> 0:07:04.160 sky is falling, and so get I think right now 0:07:04.240 --> 0:07:08.479 it's a time to recognize there just is an unbelievable 0:07:08.480 --> 0:07:12.000 amount of uncertainty and instability. As we've talked about here, 0:07:12.640 --> 0:07:15.120 a ton of it goes back. I mean, yes, we've 0:07:15.120 --> 0:07:18.560 always had uncertainty, but when people say that, I don't 0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:22.440 think they account for many things, including what we've talked 0:07:22.440 --> 0:07:26.720 about here, which is that the pandemic actualized the sense 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:29.400 that the world could come to an end. You know, 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:33.760 that mortality could come from breathing somebody else's air. And 0:07:33.800 --> 0:07:36.680 so in a way, I feel like, even though there 0:07:36.680 --> 0:07:41.320 always has been instability, it's personal in a way because 0:07:41.360 --> 0:07:44.160 of the pandemic and also because a lot of things 0:07:44.160 --> 0:07:47.680 that were happening in other places are now happening here. 0:07:47.720 --> 0:07:51.960 And also because what's happening here is reflective of a 0:07:52.040 --> 0:07:56.520 much bigger global agenda of attacks on liberal democracy in 0:07:56.560 --> 0:08:01.200 the Middle East, in India, in South America, which we 0:08:01.240 --> 0:08:04.520 haven't talked about anywhere near enough, where liberals are attacking 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:09.080 liberal democracy. So, in other words, the pandemic and social 0:08:09.160 --> 0:08:12.760 media and TikTok just gave voice to it's just a 0:08:12.800 --> 0:08:16.160 toolkit for authoritarians, and we're seeing that all over the place. 0:08:16.200 --> 0:08:18.880 So it does feel like we live in a really momentous, 0:08:18.920 --> 0:08:22.640 biblical moment. And so what will make you feel better 0:08:22.680 --> 0:08:27.400 in that moment? Well, Number one is vote for sure, 0:08:27.760 --> 0:08:29.920 because it's not like we don't have agency right now. 0:08:29.920 --> 0:08:31.560 And I'm just mirroring a lot of things You've been 0:08:31.600 --> 0:08:33.880 saying a lot on media and social media, And I 0:08:33.880 --> 0:08:36.439 think you're exactly right that it's not like I mean, 0:08:36.720 --> 0:08:39.079 it's not like it's helpless. Right now, we have a 0:08:39.200 --> 0:08:43.800 choice before us that actually I think can reverse the 0:08:43.840 --> 0:08:46.120 course of a lot of things in the United States 0:08:46.160 --> 0:08:49.440 for the better. In other words, if Trump convincingly loses 0:08:50.280 --> 0:08:52.880 the Republicans, will I think that'll be enough of Trump 0:08:52.880 --> 0:08:55.960 for the many Republicans. I know there's many more Trumps 0:08:56.000 --> 0:08:59.080 on the way, but I just think voting right now 0:08:59.360 --> 0:09:02.640 is is important, and I don't think we should give 0:09:02.679 --> 0:09:07.040 people an off ramp from that so that it's partially 0:09:07.080 --> 0:09:10.160 a political answer. But then it's all the stuff we've 0:09:10.160 --> 0:09:13.599 talked about here also, which is to try to articulate, 0:09:13.640 --> 0:09:15.959 to try to prioritize all the things you do just 0:09:16.000 --> 0:09:18.240 to organize around your house, you can do in the world, 0:09:18.280 --> 0:09:21.319 like what's the most important thing? When am I responding to? 0:09:21.920 --> 0:09:23.559 How can I take breaks? All those kind of things. 0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:25.880 So there are certainly mental health things that are important 0:09:25.920 --> 0:09:29.000 right now, but I'm kind of I mean, it's funny. 0:09:29.000 --> 0:09:30.880 I give a big talk at the University of Louisville 0:09:30.960 --> 0:09:34.840 yesterday and I said, anxiety is generative. Right now, it 0:09:34.880 --> 0:09:37.840 tells you that something is not right, and so acting 0:09:37.840 --> 0:09:40.960 on that checking out is sometimes not the right response. 0:09:41.360 --> 0:09:43.880 Then instead stepping forward is the right response. And I 0:09:43.920 --> 0:09:44.960 still kind of feel that way. 0:09:49.960 --> 0:09:53.640 I love one everything that you just said, and in 0:09:53.679 --> 0:09:56.959 particular when you started off with what your brother said 0:09:56.960 --> 0:10:00.840 that sometimes the sky is falling right, some times it 0:10:01.000 --> 0:10:04.959 is as bad as your mind, right, because our mind 0:10:05.200 --> 0:10:08.560 does have a way of playing tricks on us. But 0:10:08.760 --> 0:10:11.320 the reality is that what we're seeing and what we're 0:10:11.360 --> 0:10:14.240 feeling is as bad as what we're seeing and what 0:10:14.240 --> 0:10:18.000 we're feeling. And I think that we have a desire 0:10:18.200 --> 0:10:22.160 as humans to create a new story in our heads. 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:25.040 And what you just offer it is that like we 0:10:25.200 --> 0:10:29.160 still have choices before us, right, like all actually is 0:10:29.200 --> 0:10:33.240 not lost, and that we do still have agency for 0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:37.960 this time being. And what I'm focusing on is that 0:10:38.040 --> 0:10:42.079 the next six and a half months are the most 0:10:42.160 --> 0:10:44.960 crucial not just for this country, but I think for 0:10:45.160 --> 0:10:51.640 ourselves and our psyche and understanding like where our agency is, 0:10:51.720 --> 0:10:55.840 but also Jonathan, where our impact needs to be as 0:10:55.920 --> 0:11:00.080 individuals and as a collective. And so I wonder for you. 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:03.960 You you know, when you talk about agency and you 0:11:04.040 --> 0:11:06.920 say like people can still vote, we know that the 0:11:07.000 --> 0:11:10.600 voting is not happening for the next several months, and 0:11:10.679 --> 0:11:14.800 so what does it look like to take care of 0:11:14.840 --> 0:11:20.720 your emotional and mental and spiritual well being at a 0:11:20.760 --> 0:11:23.959 time when this sky actually is falling. 0:11:24.760 --> 0:11:27.920 Well, first, nothing will make you feel emotionally better than voting. 0:11:27.960 --> 0:11:31.080 So let's just get that out there. And I'm you 0:11:31.120 --> 0:11:34.320 know it's before I answer that question again, I will 0:11:34.360 --> 0:11:37.640 say I've interviewed a lot of people recently because I'm 0:11:37.679 --> 0:11:41.400 doing this project in the Middle East now, and like 0:11:41.480 --> 0:11:44.640 for Israeli, as I talked to who are like lefty liberal, 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:49.520 you know, anti occupation, oppressed by their own government. Now, 0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:54.440 I've asked them in recent interviews like what moment would 0:11:54.440 --> 0:11:56.439 you go back to? And I thought they would say 0:11:56.440 --> 0:11:59.600 before October seventh, but they all say, the day before 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:02.320 we didn't vote as strongly as we could for the 0:12:02.600 --> 0:12:06.000 like their whole world turned the day after that election. 0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:10.120 They couldn't believe how much the entire everything change. And 0:12:10.160 --> 0:12:13.760 I've heard this before from people who you know, in 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:16.440 my elder relatives in Europe, that everything was fine and 0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:19.640 then twenty days later the whole world was different. And 0:12:19.679 --> 0:12:24.360 so I think first of all is to conceptualize. I'm 0:12:24.360 --> 0:12:26.200 not going to give it out here to say, yes, 0:12:26.200 --> 0:12:28.720 people should take care of their mental health, that's really important, 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:31.960 and take breaks and go on trips and do recess 0:12:32.000 --> 0:12:34.720 and all that stuff. But I also think staying engaged 0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:37.959 is really really important. So I think the natural answer 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:41.640 for somebody like me, a psychiatrist, would be everybody, you know, 0:12:41.840 --> 0:12:44.160 do you know, do all the roofie you need to, 0:12:44.280 --> 0:12:46.920 that's for sure, and float around and stuff like that. 0:12:47.240 --> 0:12:49.960 But honestly, we need to stay engaged right now, like 0:12:50.000 --> 0:12:53.920 we're up against the other side who they're not. They're 0:12:53.960 --> 0:12:56.480 super engaged and they feel energized. And the reason I 0:12:56.520 --> 0:12:59.800 want to highlight, even though I know it's problematic and 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:02.320 any other ways, but the Israeli example, why I think 0:13:02.360 --> 0:13:05.040 it's useful for us to think about, is if you 0:13:05.080 --> 0:13:08.360 look at all this election data in Israel, the election 0:13:08.480 --> 0:13:11.520 that got Nittanyahu and people who were a million times 0:13:11.520 --> 0:13:14.920 worse than Natanyahu in power and created all these things 0:13:15.000 --> 0:13:18.000 and didn't change the course in the country. The Liberals 0:13:18.480 --> 0:13:21.640 were told their vote didn't matter, and they voted roughly 0:13:21.679 --> 0:13:25.400 in the same numbers they had voted in the election before, 0:13:25.679 --> 0:13:28.400 but they didn't realize that conservatives were all being told, 0:13:28.679 --> 0:13:31.439 this is our moment to take control over the liberals. 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:34.240 And so the conservatives, the right wing, all these people 0:13:34.280 --> 0:13:38.760 in Israel, all the messianic nut jobs, they all voted 0:13:39.760 --> 0:13:42.880 one point five times their usual average, much more than 0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:46.040 they normally did, and so we should again take care 0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:49.640 of our health. But I'm resisting giving a psychiatrist answer 0:13:49.679 --> 0:13:52.200 because I also think it's important to note we're up 0:13:52.240 --> 0:13:55.679 against another side that is not resting right now, and 0:13:55.760 --> 0:13:58.480 so do what you need to know for sure, but 0:13:58.559 --> 0:14:02.880 also recognize that like engagement is really important, civic engagement 0:14:02.920 --> 0:14:05.959 is really important right now because the message that we're 0:14:06.000 --> 0:14:08.280 being told is to check out because the system doesn't 0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:10.319 matter for us. So I apologize. I know you want 0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:11.240 me to tell people to. 0:14:11.280 --> 0:14:14.320 Like, No, I want you to tell people the truth. 0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:16.800 It isn't like I tell people all of the time. 0:14:16.880 --> 0:14:19.400 I mean, the whole point of will Gay Up is 0:14:19.440 --> 0:14:23.520 to make people conscious to the systemic injustices that we 0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:27.720 are existing under and in right. And I think that 0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:31.440 the point is that I also want people to recognize 0:14:31.560 --> 0:14:37.440 that we don't need everyone to be engaging in rapid response. 0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:40.680 I need some people to be thinking about like what 0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:44.280 impact actually looks like, right, and what real change and 0:14:44.320 --> 0:14:46.040 sustainable change looks like. 0:14:46.280 --> 0:14:46.480 Right. 0:14:46.600 --> 0:14:50.720 Like everyone has a role to play in this moment. 0:14:51.280 --> 0:14:55.040 And also you can't really navigate this moment if you 0:14:55.120 --> 0:14:59.960 are emotionally, spiritually and physically unwell. Right, So I don't 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:02.840 I believe that there is a both and proposition. You 0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:06.560 can be engaged and also take good care of your 0:15:06.680 --> 0:15:11.000 emotional and physical and spiritual well being, because one can't 0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:12.080 happen without the other. 0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:16.200 It's interesting. I gave a talk where was I? I 0:15:16.200 --> 0:15:19.720 think I was in pisforg okaying a lot of talks recently, 0:15:20.480 --> 0:15:23.480 and I was talking about how gun owners felt energized 0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:26.240 because there was a forty year NRA plan to take 0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:29.120 over the Supreme Court and kind of everybody knew it, 0:15:29.160 --> 0:15:32.880 but they were part of this really coherent narrative which 0:15:33.000 --> 0:15:35.840 was partially about guns. That was my talk, but it 0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:38.600 was also that the end goal wasn't guns. The end 0:15:38.600 --> 0:15:41.560 goal was taking over the Supreme Court and owning the 0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:45.760 lips and somehow like people all up and down the 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:49.240 food chain for the right that I interviewed, I said 0:15:49.360 --> 0:15:52.240 felt like, oh, this is our strategy and it actually 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:55.240 which makes sense of some of the interviews I did 0:15:55.320 --> 0:15:58.560 and Dying of Whiteness. Also it made sense to them 0:15:58.600 --> 0:16:00.720 and they felt like, oh, this is our strategy in 0:16:00.760 --> 0:16:03.720 a way, and I realized it's harder with our side 0:16:03.720 --> 0:16:07.200 because we had ninety thousand different strategies. But I do 0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:09.560 think there's a lot of anxiety because we don't have 0:16:09.720 --> 0:16:12.880 a coherent long term strategy. And so somebody in the 0:16:12.920 --> 0:16:16.480 audience said, how can we give that strategy? How can 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:18.800 we teach liberals? She was like, how can I teach 0:16:18.840 --> 0:16:22.640 my liberal students to play the long game? And I said, well, first, 0:16:22.680 --> 0:16:27.359 think about all the barriers to thinking about the long game. Right, 0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:29.280 the whole world is trying to get you to have 0:16:29.320 --> 0:16:31.640 an immediate response to something you just heard about five 0:16:31.680 --> 0:16:36.360 seconds ago. But that's a strategy to make you feel overwhelmed, right. 0:16:36.400 --> 0:16:38.720 In other words, long game doesn't come from TikTok. In fact, 0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:43.120 TikTok disrupts the long game, and so in a way, 0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:45.600 having people not But it was just interesting for me 0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:49.640 how many gun people I interviewed in twenty eleven, you 0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:53.000 know or something who felt like, yeah, man, this is crazy, 0:16:53.000 --> 0:16:55.480 but this is our long term strategy. And I mean, like, really, 0:16:56.480 --> 0:16:59.120 people who were part of this grassroots thing. So I 0:16:59.160 --> 0:17:02.800 don't know. I think part of anxiety is about I 0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:04.480 don't know how to say this, but it's like almost 0:17:04.520 --> 0:17:07.320 like it's like having nine hundred agendas but no long 0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:11.960 game in a way, and also consciously being distracted from 0:17:12.000 --> 0:17:14.240 having a long game. So I just feel like a 0:17:14.240 --> 0:17:16.439 lot of this anxiety if we all felt like, oh 0:17:16.520 --> 0:17:18.680 my god, we're working on the Obama campaign right now 0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:21.080 and it's all about hope and all these things, like 0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:24.840 we had one narrative. So I just again, I again, 0:17:24.920 --> 0:17:30.480 everybody should go for a jog, or buy a fake pet, 0:17:30.600 --> 0:17:33.440 or water your plants. All that stuff is really important. 0:17:33.880 --> 0:17:35.760 I'm making a lot of jokes about like self care. 0:17:35.800 --> 0:17:39.320 Self care is important, but I also think, like why 0:17:39.359 --> 0:17:41.399 are I just feel like people on our side are 0:17:41.440 --> 0:17:46.400 feeling disproportionate amount of anxiety because we need a coherent 0:17:46.440 --> 0:17:48.960 long term strategy that's not generated by social media. 0:17:50.440 --> 0:17:54.160 But that's exactly right, Like one social media, the whole 0:17:54.200 --> 0:17:56.440 point is to get you to stay on, and there's 0:17:56.480 --> 0:18:00.359 nothing that makes you stay on more than like doom 0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:04.879 scrolling and catastrophe, right, Like that's what's that's the point 0:18:04.920 --> 0:18:07.120 and the goal. So Once you know that, you can 0:18:07.160 --> 0:18:10.840 decide how you want to utilize social media, right, do 0:18:10.880 --> 0:18:12.879 you want to stay in doom scroll or do you 0:18:12.960 --> 0:18:16.240 want to take respites from that? And that doesn't necessarily 0:18:16.280 --> 0:18:20.879 again mean just like tuning out, because to your point, 0:18:20.960 --> 0:18:24.280 the opposition isn't tuning out, but they are also inside 0:18:24.359 --> 0:18:27.439 of a very loud echo chamber. And that's what I 0:18:27.440 --> 0:18:31.359 want people to understand too, is that, like, I don't 0:18:31.400 --> 0:18:36.360 really know to the extent of how big the rights 0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:39.879 movement is. I don't know if it's thirty percent or 0:18:39.920 --> 0:18:43.480 fifty percent or sixty percent. I have no idea because 0:18:43.680 --> 0:18:48.880 of how cable news and how social media amplifies their 0:18:49.320 --> 0:18:53.080 messaging and their points and their wins, right, And so, 0:18:53.119 --> 0:18:56.320 which is why every time that there's an abortion ballot measure, 0:18:56.640 --> 0:19:00.840 we're shocked that like it doesn't pass, because people actually 0:19:00.880 --> 0:19:03.880 do show up. So we say that people aren't engaged, 0:19:03.920 --> 0:19:06.960 but clearly, when the message is very clear about what's 0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:10.240 at stake, they are very engaged and they show up 0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:13.359 to our surprise. Every time that we've heard there be 0:19:13.840 --> 0:19:17.120 talk about a red wave that has not happened, right, 0:19:17.520 --> 0:19:20.880 And so not to say to rest on our laurels 0:19:20.960 --> 0:19:23.560 and think that there isn't work to do. There is 0:19:23.640 --> 0:19:26.040 absolutely work to do, but I think how we do 0:19:26.080 --> 0:19:31.399 that work is really what my question is is if 0:19:31.440 --> 0:19:34.600 if you're using the Israelis as an example and their 0:19:34.640 --> 0:19:40.560 post mortem on Netanyahu's election one example, one example, you know, 0:19:40.640 --> 0:19:43.960 if you're using it as one example and like the 0:19:44.080 --> 0:19:48.000 reflection on you know, what should have happened prior to 0:19:48.560 --> 0:19:51.720 I guess it is if we're using that, then what 0:19:51.880 --> 0:19:54.400 should be happening six months ahead of time? 0:19:55.200 --> 0:19:59.199 Well, I think the main thing, like it's worth like 0:19:59.240 --> 0:20:03.440 I it really does fall back on your own social networks. 0:20:03.440 --> 0:20:06.280 I mean, I think that's also true right that in 0:20:06.320 --> 0:20:10.560 a way, everything you're talking about that the mobilizing all 0:20:10.600 --> 0:20:13.720 those kind of things, it doesn't mean convincing people who 0:20:14.000 --> 0:20:16.359 weren't going to vote for stuff we care about to 0:20:16.400 --> 0:20:19.800 vote for it. It means it means mobilizing in your 0:20:19.800 --> 0:20:22.879 own social networks to get people who aren't going to 0:20:22.960 --> 0:20:26.120 vote to vote. Because the whole strategy, I mean, we've 0:20:26.119 --> 0:20:29.000 talked about this a million times, but like from that 0:20:29.080 --> 0:20:32.440 Cambridge Analyticas strategy on down, the strategy to their side 0:20:32.480 --> 0:20:35.720 is to get people to feel like their vote doesn't matter. 0:20:35.800 --> 0:20:37.359 Or the system is not working for them. It's not 0:20:37.359 --> 0:20:39.080 to get them to vote for Trump. It's to get 0:20:39.080 --> 0:20:42.719 them to not vote or to vote for you know, 0:20:42.880 --> 0:20:45.280 Jill Stein or something like that. And so in a way, 0:20:45.560 --> 0:20:48.879 it's really about like mobilizing your own networks to vote. 0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:50.920 I think that's you know, if everybody, if everybody in 0:20:50.960 --> 0:20:54.199 all of our networks votes were in fine shape, you know, 0:20:54.600 --> 0:20:58.280 I mean fine shape as much as staving off this catastrophe. 0:20:58.280 --> 0:21:00.000 But then we still have a lot of work to do, obviously. 0:21:00.160 --> 0:21:04.239 But so I would say, like fighting disengagement in your 0:21:04.240 --> 0:21:08.840 own networks is certainly very important. Explaining to people how 0:21:09.560 --> 0:21:12.920 we're being tricked into thinking the system won't work for 0:21:13.000 --> 0:21:15.080 us is very important. And here's where I'm going to 0:21:15.080 --> 0:21:19.159 ask you my question. Now, the number of times I 0:21:19.240 --> 0:21:21.320 want to be I want to craft a tweet about this, 0:21:21.359 --> 0:21:22.920 will you help me craft a tweet because I'm bad 0:21:22.920 --> 0:21:26.119 at tweeting. The number of times that I've heard people 0:21:26.200 --> 0:21:32.600 say this fill in the blank and that's therefore, how 0:21:32.640 --> 0:21:36.120 can anybody vote for Biden? But I hear people on 0:21:36.240 --> 0:21:40.119 both sides of exactly the same issue say it. So 0:21:40.160 --> 0:21:43.639 in other words, like there was a rabbi in the 0:21:43.680 --> 0:21:46.800 security line in the airport yesterday when I was flying, 0:21:46.880 --> 0:21:50.800 and he said he's not letting us fight back against Iran. 0:21:51.200 --> 0:21:53.400 How could anybody in their right mind vote for Joe? 0:21:53.680 --> 0:21:55.360 How could any Jewish person in the right mind vote 0:21:55.400 --> 0:21:59.240 for Joe Biden? And I just thought, man, that's exactly 0:21:59.280 --> 0:22:01.359 the same thing I've heard from like my progressive colleagues. 0:22:01.359 --> 0:22:03.639 But the exact opposite side, How can anybody in the 0:22:03.760 --> 0:22:07.160 right mine vote for Biden? Because he's you know, genocide 0:22:07.240 --> 0:22:08.720 Joe and all that kind of thing. So the exact 0:22:08.720 --> 0:22:11.280 opposite side, how can anybody? But it's also true for 0:22:11.920 --> 0:22:15.320 a million issues that it's like totally both sides of 0:22:15.359 --> 0:22:18.520 the coin lead to how could anybody vote for Joe Biden? 0:22:18.560 --> 0:22:22.159 And you know, I just want to scream, like, what 0:22:22.240 --> 0:22:24.040 do you think is going to like do you think 0:22:24.080 --> 0:22:27.040 Trump is going to answer and make both sides of 0:22:27.119 --> 0:22:31.560 this debate happy or something? So I don't know, it's 0:22:31.600 --> 0:22:34.440 just weird. How much like it's just weird how many 0:22:34.520 --> 0:22:39.760 issues people on both sides see, Oh, and therefore Trump 0:22:39.800 --> 0:22:41.800 is going to be a better option than we have now. 0:22:41.840 --> 0:22:44.960 So it's not that's not that and I it's a 0:22:45.040 --> 0:22:48.280 reframing that needs to happen, because that's not what people think. 0:22:48.359 --> 0:22:50.960 They don't think that Trump is going to be better, 0:22:51.119 --> 0:22:55.400 So it's not. The retort to that is not, well, 0:22:55.480 --> 0:22:57.439 Donald Trump is not going to be any better. The 0:22:57.520 --> 0:22:59.800 retort to that, to me, and what I have been 0:22:59.840 --> 0:23:02.960 doing doing is to revert it back to people's rights 0:23:02.960 --> 0:23:06.000 and freedoms. Like I continue to say that this election 0:23:06.160 --> 0:23:09.400 is not between Joe Biden and Donald Trump. It's between 0:23:09.560 --> 0:23:11.520 the rights that you want to have and the rights 0:23:11.520 --> 0:23:14.840 that you're willing to lose. That's it, Like it isn't. 0:23:14.960 --> 0:23:17.679 It isn't. I'm not going to have you know, larger 0:23:17.720 --> 0:23:22.480 conversations about you know, democracy on Twitter and this and that. 0:23:23.000 --> 0:23:25.320 But it's just like I continue to say that you 0:23:25.359 --> 0:23:27.679 are not going to be able to fight for democracy 0:23:27.760 --> 0:23:30.480 or whatever your version of democracy is elsewhere if you 0:23:30.520 --> 0:23:33.080 lose it in these United States. So the question is 0:23:33.359 --> 0:23:36.280 what rights are you willing to lose that you have 0:23:36.400 --> 0:23:41.199 not lost already? Right, And have people understand that things 0:23:41.960 --> 0:23:46.520 if Donald Trump becomes president will change at a pace 0:23:46.880 --> 0:23:50.919 that no one is actually prepared for. Like it's not 0:23:51.200 --> 0:23:53.560 going to take four years, it's not going to take 0:23:53.600 --> 0:23:57.639 four months, Right, And so I think that The response 0:23:57.720 --> 0:23:59.920 to that is not, well, do you think that Donald 0:24:00.040 --> 0:24:03.000