Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wik f Daily with
Speaker 1: Meet your Girl Danielle Moody, recording from the Home Bunker. Folks, today,
Speaker 1: get into a conversation with our friend or in house doctor,
Speaker 1: doctor Jonathan Metzel about just the exhaustion that we're feeling
Speaker 1: and asking him, as you know, a psychologist, how do
Speaker 1: we move through this moment? And you know, I'll say
Speaker 1: that I was surprised by Jonathan's answer, which you all
Speaker 1: will hear in a bit, But what I will say is,
Speaker 1: you know, something to the effect of what I posted
Speaker 1: earlier this week, which is this, and I was specifically
Speaker 1: talking about the Supreme Court, because if you've been following
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court this week, my god, are they so
Speaker 1: fucking clear about who is allowed to protest in America,
Speaker 1: namely white insurrectionists that are trying to overthrow the government
Speaker 1: who they've decided that they're no longer going to look
Speaker 1: at the obstruction law because apparently building a gallows, beating
Speaker 1: up police officers, apparently that's not an issue that's apparently patriotic.
Speaker 1: But organizing a march after the killing of George Floyd,
Speaker 1: which is what Deray mckennison did, now that somehow is
Speaker 1: criminal and you can be held liable for the organization
Speaker 1: of said rally if in fact somebody, namely a police officer,
Speaker 1: is hurt. It's bullshit and I'm fucking over it. And
Speaker 1: what I said is this, the Supreme Court of the
Speaker 1: United States has effectively banned mass protests in three states,
Speaker 1: feels uncomfortable with the use of an abstruct law for
Speaker 1: the insurrectionists that tried to overthrow our election, and are
Speaker 1: slow walking the presidential immunity case for Trump where all
Speaker 1: we got vote? And what do I mean by that?
Speaker 1: I think that for the last several years, right under
Speaker 1: trump Ism and MAGA, that we have been looking to
Speaker 1: external forces to save us right to shake this you
Speaker 1: know country that it has been I don't know, lulled
Speaker 1: into complacency or are under the spell of the world's
Speaker 1: greatest grifter, Donald Trump. We've been looking to the courts,
Speaker 1: We've been looking to you know, our elected officials to
Speaker 1: do what's right, and no one has right to this point.
Speaker 1: And what I realize is that the only people that
Speaker 1: can save us are us. We're the last defense against
Speaker 1: the final death knew of trump Ism. Now you can
Speaker 1: say to yourself well, you know, we have Joe Biden,
Speaker 1: and we lost abortion and we lost afirmative action. Those
Speaker 1: things are true. We also have to remember that Donald Trump,
Speaker 1: because he was president and elected in twenty sixteen and
Speaker 1: sworn in in twenty seventeen, because of America's deep seated
Speaker 1: misogyny and hatred for women, he had the ability to
Speaker 1: appoint not one, not two, but three Supreme Court justices. Right,
Speaker 1: So we're here because of America's desire for a strong man.
Speaker 1: We're here because apparently Hillary Clinton's emails were just too
Speaker 1: overwhelming that we decided to go with a four times
Speaker 1: now indicted, ninety one charged fucking criminal to be our
Speaker 1: president of the United States. We didn't know the extent
Speaker 1: of his crimes that he would commit while in office,
Speaker 1: but was sure as hell knew who the fuck he
Speaker 1: was before when he was on Access Hollywood talking about
Speaker 1: I can grab them by the pussy. That should have
Speaker 1: been disqualifying enough. So we were able to stave off
Speaker 1: Donald Trump in twenty twenty in the midst of a
Speaker 1: global health pandemic. And folks, if we have the ability
Speaker 1: to do it one last time, Donald Trump's fucking I
Speaker 1: don't know benefit of the doubt will finally have run
Speaker 1: its fucking course, and those criminal cases and those court
Speaker 1: cases will now have full breath and will be full
Speaker 1: steam ahead because the excuse of the election and the
Speaker 1: excuse of him being a candidate will no longer be there.
Speaker 1: So if we can hang the fuck on and do
Speaker 1: what is necessary, even though it is hard, even though
Speaker 1: we may not like it, then we can live to
Speaker 1: fight another day. And so, you know, with the exhaustion,
Speaker 1: with the grief, with the weariness, I get into a
Speaker 1: conversation with our friend, doctor Jonathan Mepzil, about how we
Speaker 1: continue to move forward. Folks. You know, whenever we have
Speaker 1: the opportunity to chat with our in house doctor, doctor
Speaker 1: Jonathan Mepzil, I am always pleased and happy. Jonathan, How
Speaker 1: are you please?
Speaker 2: I like how you put that. That's how I feel.
Speaker 2: No please, you know, yeah, I'm hanging in there. I mean,
Speaker 2: you know, what can you do at this point? We
Speaker 2: have we have bird flu in our eggs, you know,
Speaker 2: but it's a beautiful day outside, so.
Speaker 1: You know, well, I want to start off honestly, because
Speaker 1: I've been in a lot of meetings and a lot
Speaker 1: of conversations where people are feeling this rise in frenetic energy.
Speaker 1: They are feeling like things in our society, in the
Speaker 1: world are just moving rapidly in the wrong direction. And
Speaker 1: you know, we are getting close to the six month
Speaker 1: mark until this presidential election, and I want to come
Speaker 1: to you as our in house doctor and saying like,
Speaker 1: how do people manage emotionally during this time as everything
Speaker 1: is becoming incredibly just devastatingly overwhelming.
Speaker 2: Well, thank you, and I'm going to then ask you
Speaker 2: a question as an in house social media expert after
Speaker 2: I answer that question. Sure, But I mean it's funny
Speaker 2: because like I feel like for people like you and I,
Speaker 2: we were kind of built for this moment. Like I'm
Speaker 2: always doing nine hundred things and the world's always coming
Speaker 2: to an end and it's not pleasant. But like my
Speaker 2: brother said to me there day, he said, sometimes the
Speaker 2: sky is falling, and so get I think right now
Speaker 2: it's a time to recognize there just is an unbelievable
Speaker 2: amount of uncertainty and instability. As we've talked about here,
Speaker 2: a ton of it goes back. I mean, yes, we've
Speaker 2: always had uncertainty, but when people say that, I don't
Speaker 2: think they account for many things, including what we've talked
Speaker 2: about here, which is that the pandemic actualized the sense
Speaker 2: that the world could come to an end. You know,
Speaker 2: that mortality could come from breathing somebody else's air. And
Speaker 2: so in a way, I feel like, even though there
Speaker 2: always has been instability, it's personal in a way because
Speaker 2: of the pandemic and also because a lot of things
Speaker 2: that were happening in other places are now happening here.
Speaker 2: And also because what's happening here is reflective of a
Speaker 2: much bigger global agenda of attacks on liberal democracy in
Speaker 2: the Middle East, in India, in South America, which we
Speaker 2: haven't talked about anywhere near enough, where liberals are attacking
Speaker 2: liberal democracy. So, in other words, the pandemic and social
Speaker 2: media and TikTok just gave voice to it's just a
Speaker 2: toolkit for authoritarians, and we're seeing that all over the place.
Speaker 2: So it does feel like we live in a really momentous,
Speaker 2: biblical moment. And so what will make you feel better
Speaker 2: in that moment? Well, Number one is vote for sure,
Speaker 2: because it's not like we don't have agency right now.
Speaker 2: And I'm just mirroring a lot of things You've been
Speaker 2: saying a lot on media and social media, And I
Speaker 2: think you're exactly right that it's not like I mean,
Speaker 2: it's not like it's helpless. Right now, we have a
Speaker 2: choice before us that actually I think can reverse the
Speaker 2: course of a lot of things in the United States
Speaker 2: for the better. In other words, if Trump convincingly loses
Speaker 2: the Republicans, will I think that'll be enough of Trump
Speaker 2: for the many Republicans. I know there's many more Trumps
Speaker 2: on the way, but I just think voting right now
Speaker 2: is is important, and I don't think we should give
Speaker 2: people an off ramp from that so that it's partially
Speaker 2: a political answer. But then it's all the stuff we've
Speaker 2: talked about here also, which is to try to articulate,
Speaker 2: to try to prioritize all the things you do just
Speaker 2: to organize around your house, you can do in the world,
Speaker 2: like what's the most important thing? When am I responding to?
Speaker 2: How can I take breaks? All those kind of things.
Speaker 2: So there are certainly mental health things that are important
Speaker 2: right now, but I'm kind of I mean, it's funny.
Speaker 2: I give a big talk at the University of Louisville
Speaker 2: yesterday and I said, anxiety is generative. Right now, it
Speaker 2: tells you that something is not right, and so acting
Speaker 2: on that checking out is sometimes not the right response.
Speaker 2: Then instead stepping forward is the right response. And I
Speaker 2: still kind of feel that way.
Speaker 1: I love one everything that you just said, and in
Speaker 1: particular when you started off with what your brother said
Speaker 1: that sometimes the sky is falling right, some times it
Speaker 1: is as bad as your mind, right, because our mind
Speaker 1: does have a way of playing tricks on us. But
Speaker 1: the reality is that what we're seeing and what we're
Speaker 1: feeling is as bad as what we're seeing and what
Speaker 1: we're feeling. And I think that we have a desire
Speaker 1: as humans to create a new story in our heads.
Speaker 1: And what you just offer it is that like we
Speaker 1: still have choices before us, right, like all actually is
Speaker 1: not lost, and that we do still have agency for
Speaker 1: this time being. And what I'm focusing on is that
Speaker 1: the next six and a half months are the most
Speaker 1: crucial not just for this country, but I think for
Speaker 1: ourselves and our psyche and understanding like where our agency is,
Speaker 1: but also Jonathan, where our impact needs to be as
Speaker 1: individuals and as a collective. And so I wonder for you.
Speaker 1: You you know, when you talk about agency and you
Speaker 1: say like people can still vote, we know that the
Speaker 1: voting is not happening for the next several months, and
Speaker 1: so what does it look like to take care of
Speaker 1: your emotional and mental and spiritual well being at a
Speaker 1: time when this sky actually is falling.
Speaker 2: Well, first, nothing will make you feel emotionally better than voting.
Speaker 2: So let's just get that out there. And I'm you
Speaker 2: know it's before I answer that question again, I will
Speaker 2: say I've interviewed a lot of people recently because I'm
Speaker 2: doing this project in the Middle East now, and like
Speaker 2: for Israeli, as I talked to who are like lefty liberal,
Speaker 2: you know, anti occupation, oppressed by their own government. Now,
Speaker 2: I've asked them in recent interviews like what moment would
Speaker 2: you go back to? And I thought they would say
Speaker 2: before October seventh, but they all say, the day before
Speaker 2: we didn't vote as strongly as we could for the
Speaker 2: like their whole world turned the day after that election.
Speaker 2: They couldn't believe how much the entire everything change. And
Speaker 2: I've heard this before from people who you know, in
Speaker 2: my elder relatives in Europe, that everything was fine and
Speaker 2: then twenty days later the whole world was different. And
Speaker 2: so I think first of all is to conceptualize. I'm
Speaker 2: not going to give it out here to say, yes,
Speaker 2: people should take care of their mental health, that's really important,
Speaker 2: and take breaks and go on trips and do recess
Speaker 2: and all that stuff. But I also think staying engaged
Speaker 2: is really really important. So I think the natural answer
Speaker 2: for somebody like me, a psychiatrist, would be everybody, you know,
Speaker 2: do you know, do all the roofie you need to,
Speaker 2: that's for sure, and float around and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: But honestly, we need to stay engaged right now, like
Speaker 2: we're up against the other side who they're not. They're
Speaker 2: super engaged and they feel energized. And the reason I
Speaker 2: want to highlight, even though I know it's problematic and
Speaker 2: any other ways, but the Israeli example, why I think
Speaker 2: it's useful for us to think about, is if you
Speaker 2: look at all this election data in Israel, the election
Speaker 2: that got Nittanyahu and people who were a million times
Speaker 2: worse than Natanyahu in power and created all these things
Speaker 2: and didn't change the course in the country. The Liberals
Speaker 2: were told their vote didn't matter, and they voted roughly
Speaker 2: in the same numbers they had voted in the election before,
Speaker 2: but they didn't realize that conservatives were all being told,
Speaker 2: this is our moment to take control over the liberals.
Speaker 2: And so the conservatives, the right wing, all these people
Speaker 2: in Israel, all the messianic nut jobs, they all voted
Speaker 2: one point five times their usual average, much more than
Speaker 2: they normally did, and so we should again take care
Speaker 2: of our health. But I'm resisting giving a psychiatrist answer
Speaker 2: because I also think it's important to note we're up
Speaker 2: against another side that is not resting right now, and
Speaker 2: so do what you need to know for sure, but
Speaker 2: also recognize that like engagement is really important, civic engagement
Speaker 2: is really important right now because the message that we're
Speaker 2: being told is to check out because the system doesn't
Speaker 2: matter for us. So I apologize. I know you want
Speaker 2: me to tell people to.
Speaker 1: Like, No, I want you to tell people the truth.
Speaker 1: It isn't like I tell people all of the time.
Speaker 1: I mean, the whole point of will Gay Up is
Speaker 1: to make people conscious to the systemic injustices that we
Speaker 1: are existing under and in right. And I think that
Speaker 1: the point is that I also want people to recognize
Speaker 1: that we don't need everyone to be engaging in rapid response.
Speaker 1: I need some people to be thinking about like what
Speaker 1: impact actually looks like, right, and what real change and
Speaker 1: sustainable change looks like.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: Like everyone has a role to play in this moment.
Speaker 1: And also you can't really navigate this moment if you
Speaker 1: are emotionally, spiritually and physically unwell. Right, So I don't
Speaker 1: I believe that there is a both and proposition. You
Speaker 1: can be engaged and also take good care of your
Speaker 1: emotional and physical and spiritual well being, because one can't
Speaker 1: happen without the other.
Speaker 2: It's interesting. I gave a talk where was I? I
Speaker 2: think I was in pisforg okaying a lot of talks recently,
Speaker 2: and I was talking about how gun owners felt energized
Speaker 2: because there was a forty year NRA plan to take
Speaker 2: over the Supreme Court and kind of everybody knew it,
Speaker 2: but they were part of this really coherent narrative which
Speaker 2: was partially about guns. That was my talk, but it
Speaker 2: was also that the end goal wasn't guns. The end
Speaker 2: goal was taking over the Supreme Court and owning the
Speaker 2: lips and somehow like people all up and down the
Speaker 2: food chain for the right that I interviewed, I said
Speaker 2: felt like, oh, this is our strategy and it actually
Speaker 2: which makes sense of some of the interviews I did
Speaker 2: and Dying of Whiteness. Also it made sense to them
Speaker 2: and they felt like, oh, this is our strategy in
Speaker 2: a way, and I realized it's harder with our side
Speaker 2: because we had ninety thousand different strategies. But I do
Speaker 2: think there's a lot of anxiety because we don't have
Speaker 2: a coherent long term strategy. And so somebody in the
Speaker 2: audience said, how can we give that strategy? How can
Speaker 2: we teach liberals? She was like, how can I teach
Speaker 2: my liberal students to play the long game? And I said, well, first,
Speaker 2: think about all the barriers to thinking about the long game. Right,
Speaker 2: the whole world is trying to get you to have
Speaker 2: an immediate response to something you just heard about five
Speaker 2: seconds ago. But that's a strategy to make you feel overwhelmed, right.
Speaker 2: In other words, long game doesn't come from TikTok. In fact,
Speaker 2: TikTok disrupts the long game, and so in a way,
Speaker 2: having people not But it was just interesting for me
Speaker 2: how many gun people I interviewed in twenty eleven, you
Speaker 2: know or something who felt like, yeah, man, this is crazy,
Speaker 2: but this is our long term strategy. And I mean, like, really,
Speaker 2: people who were part of this grassroots thing. So I
Speaker 2: don't know. I think part of anxiety is about I
Speaker 2: don't know how to say this, but it's like almost
Speaker 2: like it's like having nine hundred agendas but no long
Speaker 2: game in a way, and also consciously being distracted from
Speaker 2: having a long game. So I just feel like a
Speaker 2: lot of this anxiety if we all felt like, oh
Speaker 2: my god, we're working on the Obama campaign right now
Speaker 2: and it's all about hope and all these things, like
Speaker 2: we had one narrative. So I just again, I again,
Speaker 2: everybody should go for a jog, or buy a fake pet,
Speaker 2: or water your plants. All that stuff is really important.
Speaker 2: I'm making a lot of jokes about like self care.
Speaker 2: Self care is important, but I also think, like why
Speaker 2: are I just feel like people on our side are
Speaker 2: feeling disproportionate amount of anxiety because we need a coherent
Speaker 2: long term strategy that's not generated by social media.
Speaker 1: But that's exactly right, Like one social media, the whole
Speaker 1: point is to get you to stay on, and there's
Speaker 1: nothing that makes you stay on more than like doom
Speaker 1: scrolling and catastrophe, right, Like that's what's that's the point
Speaker 1: and the goal. So Once you know that, you can
Speaker 1: decide how you want to utilize social media, right, do
Speaker 1: you want to stay in doom scroll or do you
Speaker 1: want to take respites from that? And that doesn't necessarily
Speaker 1: again mean just like tuning out, because to your point,
Speaker 1: the opposition isn't tuning out, but they are also inside
Speaker 1: of a very loud echo chamber. And that's what I
Speaker 1: want people to understand too, is that, like, I don't
Speaker 1: really know to the extent of how big the rights
Speaker 1: movement is. I don't know if it's thirty percent or
Speaker 1: fifty percent or sixty percent. I have no idea because
Speaker 1: of how cable news and how social media amplifies their
Speaker 1: messaging and their points and their wins, right, And so,
Speaker 1: which is why every time that there's an abortion ballot measure,
Speaker 1: we're shocked that like it doesn't pass, because people actually
Speaker 1: do show up. So we say that people aren't engaged,
Speaker 1: but clearly, when the message is very clear about what's
Speaker 1: at stake, they are very engaged and they show up
Speaker 1: to our surprise. Every time that we've heard there be
Speaker 1: talk about a red wave that has not happened, right,
Speaker 1: And so not to say to rest on our laurels
Speaker 1: and think that there isn't work to do. There is
Speaker 1: absolutely work to do, but I think how we do
Speaker 1: that work is really what my question is is if
Speaker 1: if you're using the Israelis as an example and their
Speaker 1: post mortem on Netanyahu's election one example, one example, you know,
Speaker 1: if you're using it as one example and like the
Speaker 1: reflection on you know, what should have happened prior to
Speaker 1: I guess it is if we're using that, then what
Speaker 1: should be happening six months ahead of time?
Speaker 2: Well, I think the main thing, like it's worth like
Speaker 2: I it really does fall back on your own social networks.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think that's also true right that in
Speaker 2: a way, everything you're talking about that the mobilizing all
Speaker 2: those kind of things, it doesn't mean convincing people who
Speaker 2: weren't going to vote for stuff we care about to
Speaker 2: vote for it. It means it means mobilizing in your
Speaker 2: own social networks to get people who aren't going to
Speaker 2: vote to vote. Because the whole strategy, I mean, we've
Speaker 2: talked about this a million times, but like from that
Speaker 2: Cambridge Analyticas strategy on down, the strategy to their side
Speaker 2: is to get people to feel like their vote doesn't matter.
Speaker 2: Or the system is not working for them. It's not
Speaker 2: to get them to vote for Trump. It's to get
Speaker 2: them to not vote or to vote for you know,
Speaker 2: Jill Stein or something like that. And so in a way,
Speaker 2: it's really about like mobilizing your own networks to vote.
Speaker 2: I think that's you know, if everybody, if everybody in
Speaker 2: all of our networks votes were in fine shape, you know,
Speaker 2: I mean fine shape as much as staving off this catastrophe.
Speaker 2: But then we still have a lot of work to do, obviously.
Speaker 2: But so I would say, like fighting disengagement in your
Speaker 2: own networks is certainly very important. Explaining to people how
Speaker 2: we're being tricked into thinking the system won't work for
Speaker 2: us is very important. And here's where I'm going to
Speaker 2: ask you my question. Now, the number of times I
Speaker 2: want to be I want to craft a tweet about this,
Speaker 2: will you help me craft a tweet because I'm bad
Speaker 2: at tweeting. The number of times that I've heard people
Speaker 2: say this fill in the blank and that's therefore, how
Speaker 2: can anybody vote for Biden? But I hear people on
Speaker 2: both sides of exactly the same issue say it. So
Speaker 2: in other words, like there was a rabbi in the
Speaker 2: security line in the airport yesterday when I was flying,
Speaker 2: and he said he's not letting us fight back against Iran.
Speaker 2: How could anybody in their right mind vote for Joe?
Speaker 2: How could any Jewish person in the right mind vote
Speaker 2: for Joe Biden? And I just thought, man, that's exactly
Speaker 2: the same thing I've heard from like my progressive colleagues.
Speaker 2: But the exact opposite side, How can anybody in the
Speaker 2: right mine vote for Biden? Because he's you know, genocide
Speaker 2: Joe and all that kind of thing. So the exact
Speaker 2: opposite side, how can anybody? But it's also true for
Speaker 2: a million issues that it's like totally both sides of
Speaker 2: the coin lead to how could anybody vote for Joe Biden?
Speaker 2: And you know, I just want to scream, like, what
Speaker 2: do you think is going to like do you think
Speaker 2: Trump is going to answer and make both sides of
Speaker 2: this debate happy or something? So I don't know, it's
Speaker 2: just weird. How much like it's just weird how many
Speaker 2: issues people on both sides see, Oh, and therefore Trump
Speaker 2: is going to be a better option than we have now.
Speaker 1: So it's not that's not that and I it's a
Speaker 1: reframing that needs to happen, because that's not what people think.
Speaker 1: They don't think that Trump is going to be better,
Speaker 1: So it's not. The retort to that is not, well,
Speaker 1: Donald Trump is not going to be any better. The
Speaker 1: retort to that, to me, and what I have been
Speaker 1: doing doing is to revert it back to people's rights
Speaker 1: and freedoms. Like I continue to say that this election
Speaker 1: is not between Joe Biden and Donald Trump. It's between
Speaker 1: the rights that you want to have and the rights
Speaker 1: that you're willing to lose. That's it, Like it isn't.
Speaker 1: It isn't. I'm not going to have you know, larger
Speaker 1: conversations about you know, democracy on Twitter and this and that.
Speaker 1: But it's just like I continue to say that you
Speaker 1: are not going to be able to fight for democracy
Speaker 1: or whatever your version of democracy is elsewhere if you
Speaker 1: lose it in these United States. So the question is
Speaker 1: what rights are you willing to lose that you have
Speaker 1: not lost already? Right, And have people understand that things
Speaker 1: if Donald Trump becomes president will change at a pace
Speaker 1: that no one is actually prepared for. Like it's not
Speaker 1: going to take four years, it's not going to take
Speaker 1: four months, Right, And so I think that The response
Speaker 1: to that is not, well, do you think that Donald
Speaker 1: Trump will be better? It's what rights are you willing
Speaker 1: to give up?
Speaker 2: Do you think there's a way? And again, it just
Speaker 2: the irony for me is people don't see it right.
Speaker 2: It's just people on both sides of the same issue,
Speaker 2: Like it would it would make more sense intellectually, even
Speaker 2: though I know, of course you're right, It would make
Speaker 2: more sense intellectually for me if people had said he's
Speaker 2: he's pro gun and or he's anti gun and I'm
Speaker 2: progun or something like that, like in other words, like
Speaker 2: my candidate is going to deliver for me better than
Speaker 2: Joe Biden is or something like that. But it's not
Speaker 2: even linked to that. It's almost like Trump becomes the
Speaker 2: default choice because Biden isn't delivering on phil And yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean Biden's not delivering on a lot of things,
Speaker 2: no doubt.
Speaker 1: We're not at a place of impossibility at this moment.
Speaker 1: We still have choices. Yeah, so it's like, what what
Speaker 1: are you choosing? Are you choosing your rights right or
Speaker 1: are you choosing not to have any more rights? Like
Speaker 1: that to me is the fundamental thing, Like you know,
Speaker 1: you think that if you're living in a blue state
Speaker 1: that oh, I'm going to be safe. No, you are
Speaker 1: not right. We have the National Guard in the subway
Speaker 1: stations here without any clear guidance onto when when they're
Speaker 1: going to leave.
Speaker 2: There was an excellent essay in the Trace about that.
Speaker 1: Actually, yeah, you have abortion right now in this state,
Speaker 1: but not an anti abortion agenda becomes nationalized. So to me,
Speaker 1: the conversation isn't about like, well, how can you vote
Speaker 1: for Joe Biden? It's how can you even consider voting
Speaker 1: against your own rights?
Speaker 2: And also, I mean, maybe there's a way to also
Speaker 2: you tell me aspirationally put a spin on that, which
Speaker 2: I really do believe that America has the opportunity to
Speaker 2: show the world how to fight back against totalitarianism. In
Speaker 2: other words, like, there's so many societies that are on
Speaker 2: the brink right now. India really comes to mind a lot,
Speaker 2: but Argentina, and I mean the list is really long.
Speaker 2: And so if America has the you know, America can
Speaker 2: show the world how to save democracy. I mean, I
Speaker 2: realize we don't. We're not great at looking globally in
Speaker 2: this country, but maybe there's a way to also frame
Speaker 2: it that way, or you think it's about everybody. The
Speaker 2: way we think in this country, it's all about our
Speaker 2: rights and our freedoms.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that right now it is all
Speaker 1: about our rights and our freedoms. I don't think that
Speaker 1: we're really interested in what and how to frame it globally.
Speaker 1: I think that the issue is having people really focus
Speaker 1: honestly on themselves. Yeah, and that is going to be
Speaker 1: the way. That's going to be the way forward is
Speaker 1: I need people to really think about themselves, their lives,
Speaker 1: their families over the next few months and ask yourself,
Speaker 1: you know, what are you willing to lose from what
Speaker 1: it is that you have right now, because you will
Speaker 1: lose a lot.
Speaker 2: I wish people could hear some of these interviews I'm doing.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm writing it up a little bit, but
Speaker 2: it's kind of like it's one of those moments, like
Speaker 2: remember the moment after Trump won, Like the next day,
Speaker 2: everybody was crying and in shock, like people kind of
Speaker 2: realized in other places that just how deeply their world
Speaker 2: completely completely changed, Like in one day, every just the
Speaker 2: air was flowing in a different direction and stuff like that,
Speaker 2: Like the entire world was totally different. And so I
Speaker 2: don't know this. It's just like if you can have
Speaker 2: people see that moment where you know where, like they
Speaker 2: were like, why can't I go back three days and
Speaker 2: like whatever, and again we have an awful lot of imperfection.
Speaker 2: And part of the reason it's hard for Biden right
Speaker 2: now is because, like our coalition is a lot of
Speaker 2: people asking like am I in coalition with that? You know?
Speaker 2: I mean, like our coalition is really divergent in a
Speaker 2: lot of ways. But man, I don't know. I just
Speaker 2: like that that moment of like the day after and
Speaker 2: can I ever redo? I mean, it would be a
Speaker 2: million times more intense for us than that moment of
Speaker 2: like why didn't Hillary Clinton campaign more in the restel
Speaker 2: you know stuff like that.
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, well we will have to leave it
Speaker 1: there today, my friend, thank you as always for making
Speaker 1: time for wok af.
Speaker 2: Always appreciate you hanging there everybody.
Speaker 1: Indeed, that is it for me today, dear friends on
Speaker 1: wok f as always, power to the people and to
Speaker 1: all the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.