1 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wik f Daily with 2 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:19,799 Speaker 1: Meet your Girl Danielle Moody, recording from the Home Bunker. Folks, today, 3 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:23,959 Speaker 1: get into a conversation with our friend or in house doctor, 4 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 1: doctor Jonathan Metzel about just the exhaustion that we're feeling 5 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:36,239 Speaker 1: and asking him, as you know, a psychologist, how do 6 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:39,880 Speaker 1: we move through this moment? And you know, I'll say 7 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:43,519 Speaker 1: that I was surprised by Jonathan's answer, which you all 8 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 1: will hear in a bit, But what I will say is, 9 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:50,920 Speaker 1: you know, something to the effect of what I posted 10 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 1: earlier this week, which is this, and I was specifically 11 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 1: talking about the Supreme Court, because if you've been following 12 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court this week, my god, are they so 13 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 1: fucking clear about who is allowed to protest in America, 14 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 1: namely white insurrectionists that are trying to overthrow the government 15 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 1: who they've decided that they're no longer going to look 16 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 1: at the obstruction law because apparently building a gallows, beating 17 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 1: up police officers, apparently that's not an issue that's apparently patriotic. 18 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:31,040 Speaker 1: But organizing a march after the killing of George Floyd, 19 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:35,760 Speaker 1: which is what Deray mckennison did, now that somehow is 20 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 1: criminal and you can be held liable for the organization 21 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:46,040 Speaker 1: of said rally if in fact somebody, namely a police officer, 22 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 1: is hurt. It's bullshit and I'm fucking over it. And 23 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: what I said is this, the Supreme Court of the 24 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 1: United States has effectively banned mass protests in three states, 25 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 1: feels uncomfortable with the use of an abstruct law for 26 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 1: the insurrectionists that tried to overthrow our election, and are 27 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 1: slow walking the presidential immunity case for Trump where all 28 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: we got vote? And what do I mean by that? 29 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:17,800 Speaker 1: I think that for the last several years, right under 30 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:24,080 Speaker 1: trump Ism and MAGA, that we have been looking to 31 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:28,920 Speaker 1: external forces to save us right to shake this you 32 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 1: know country that it has been I don't know, lulled 33 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:39,119 Speaker 1: into complacency or are under the spell of the world's 34 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: greatest grifter, Donald Trump. We've been looking to the courts, 35 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 1: We've been looking to you know, our elected officials to 36 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: do what's right, and no one has right to this point. 37 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 1: And what I realize is that the only people that 38 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:02,399 Speaker 1: can save us are us. We're the last defense against 39 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 1: the final death knew of trump Ism. Now you can 40 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:12,640 Speaker 1: say to yourself well, you know, we have Joe Biden, 41 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 1: and we lost abortion and we lost afirmative action. Those 42 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: things are true. We also have to remember that Donald Trump, 43 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 1: because he was president and elected in twenty sixteen and 44 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:28,080 Speaker 1: sworn in in twenty seventeen, because of America's deep seated 45 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 1: misogyny and hatred for women, he had the ability to 46 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 1: appoint not one, not two, but three Supreme Court justices. Right, 47 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: So we're here because of America's desire for a strong man. 48 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 1: We're here because apparently Hillary Clinton's emails were just too 49 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 1: overwhelming that we decided to go with a four times 50 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 1: now indicted, ninety one charged fucking criminal to be our 51 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 1: president of the United States. We didn't know the extent 52 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 1: of his crimes that he would commit while in office, 53 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 1: but was sure as hell knew who the fuck he 54 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 1: was before when he was on Access Hollywood talking about 55 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 1: I can grab them by the pussy. That should have 56 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:19,599 Speaker 1: been disqualifying enough. So we were able to stave off 57 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 1: Donald Trump in twenty twenty in the midst of a 58 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 1: global health pandemic. And folks, if we have the ability 59 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:30,159 Speaker 1: to do it one last time, Donald Trump's fucking I 60 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 1: don't know benefit of the doubt will finally have run 61 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 1: its fucking course, and those criminal cases and those court 62 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 1: cases will now have full breath and will be full 63 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 1: steam ahead because the excuse of the election and the 64 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:49,280 Speaker 1: excuse of him being a candidate will no longer be there. 65 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:53,279 Speaker 1: So if we can hang the fuck on and do 66 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:56,839 Speaker 1: what is necessary, even though it is hard, even though 67 00:04:56,880 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 1: we may not like it, then we can live to 68 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 1: fight another day. And so, you know, with the exhaustion, 69 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 1: with the grief, with the weariness, I get into a 70 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:12,040 Speaker 1: conversation with our friend, doctor Jonathan Mepzil, about how we 71 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 1: continue to move forward. Folks. You know, whenever we have 72 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 1: the opportunity to chat with our in house doctor, doctor 73 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 1: Jonathan Mepzil, I am always pleased and happy. Jonathan, How 74 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 1: are you please? 75 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:32,479 Speaker 2: I like how you put that. That's how I feel. 76 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 2: No please, you know, yeah, I'm hanging in there. I mean, 77 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 2: you know, what can you do at this point? We 78 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 2: have we have bird flu in our eggs, you know, 79 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:45,800 Speaker 2: but it's a beautiful day outside, so. 80 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 1: You know, well, I want to start off honestly, because 81 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:53,040 Speaker 1: I've been in a lot of meetings and a lot 82 00:05:53,040 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 1: of conversations where people are feeling this rise in frenetic energy. 83 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 1: They are feeling like things in our society, in the 84 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 1: world are just moving rapidly in the wrong direction. And 85 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:13,040 Speaker 1: you know, we are getting close to the six month 86 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 1: mark until this presidential election, and I want to come 87 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 1: to you as our in house doctor and saying like, 88 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 1: how do people manage emotionally during this time as everything 89 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 1: is becoming incredibly just devastatingly overwhelming. 90 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 2: Well, thank you, and I'm going to then ask you 91 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 2: a question as an in house social media expert after 92 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:43,920 Speaker 2: I answer that question. Sure, But I mean it's funny 93 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 2: because like I feel like for people like you and I, 94 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 2: we were kind of built for this moment. Like I'm 95 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 2: always doing nine hundred things and the world's always coming 96 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 2: to an end and it's not pleasant. But like my 97 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 2: brother said to me there day, he said, sometimes the 98 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:04,160 Speaker 2: sky is falling, and so get I think right now 99 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:08,479 Speaker 2: it's a time to recognize there just is an unbelievable 100 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 2: amount of uncertainty and instability. As we've talked about here, 101 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 2: a ton of it goes back. I mean, yes, we've 102 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 2: always had uncertainty, but when people say that, I don't 103 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 2: think they account for many things, including what we've talked 104 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 2: about here, which is that the pandemic actualized the sense 105 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 2: that the world could come to an end. You know, 106 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 2: that mortality could come from breathing somebody else's air. And 107 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 2: so in a way, I feel like, even though there 108 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 2: always has been instability, it's personal in a way because 109 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 2: of the pandemic and also because a lot of things 110 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 2: that were happening in other places are now happening here. 111 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 2: And also because what's happening here is reflective of a 112 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 2: much bigger global agenda of attacks on liberal democracy in 113 00:07:56,560 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 2: the Middle East, in India, in South America, which we 114 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 2: haven't talked about anywhere near enough, where liberals are attacking 115 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 2: liberal democracy. So, in other words, the pandemic and social 116 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 2: media and TikTok just gave voice to it's just a 117 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 2: toolkit for authoritarians, and we're seeing that all over the place. 118 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 2: So it does feel like we live in a really momentous, 119 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 2: biblical moment. And so what will make you feel better 120 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 2: in that moment? Well, Number one is vote for sure, 121 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 2: because it's not like we don't have agency right now. 122 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 2: And I'm just mirroring a lot of things You've been 123 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 2: saying a lot on media and social media, And I 124 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:36,439 Speaker 2: think you're exactly right that it's not like I mean, 125 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:39,079 Speaker 2: it's not like it's helpless. Right now, we have a 126 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 2: choice before us that actually I think can reverse the 127 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 2: course of a lot of things in the United States 128 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 2: for the better. In other words, if Trump convincingly loses 129 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 2: the Republicans, will I think that'll be enough of Trump 130 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:55,960 Speaker 2: for the many Republicans. I know there's many more Trumps 131 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:59,080 Speaker 2: on the way, but I just think voting right now 132 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 2: is is important, and I don't think we should give 133 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 2: people an off ramp from that so that it's partially 134 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 2: a political answer. But then it's all the stuff we've 135 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:13,599 Speaker 2: talked about here also, which is to try to articulate, 136 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:15,959 Speaker 2: to try to prioritize all the things you do just 137 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 2: to organize around your house, you can do in the world, 138 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:21,319 Speaker 2: like what's the most important thing? When am I responding to? 139 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:23,559 Speaker 2: How can I take breaks? All those kind of things. 140 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 2: So there are certainly mental health things that are important 141 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 2: right now, but I'm kind of I mean, it's funny. 142 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 2: I give a big talk at the University of Louisville 143 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 2: yesterday and I said, anxiety is generative. Right now, it 144 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:37,840 Speaker 2: tells you that something is not right, and so acting 145 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 2: on that checking out is sometimes not the right response. 146 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 2: Then instead stepping forward is the right response. And I 147 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 2: still kind of feel that way. 148 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 1: I love one everything that you just said, and in 149 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:56,959 Speaker 1: particular when you started off with what your brother said 150 00:09:56,960 --> 00:10:00,840 Speaker 1: that sometimes the sky is falling right, some times it 151 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:04,959 Speaker 1: is as bad as your mind, right, because our mind 152 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:08,560 Speaker 1: does have a way of playing tricks on us. But 153 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:11,320 Speaker 1: the reality is that what we're seeing and what we're 154 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 1: feeling is as bad as what we're seeing and what 155 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: we're feeling. And I think that we have a desire 156 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 1: as humans to create a new story in our heads. 157 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 1: And what you just offer it is that like we 158 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:29,160 Speaker 1: still have choices before us, right, like all actually is 159 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 1: not lost, and that we do still have agency for 160 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 1: this time being. And what I'm focusing on is that 161 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:42,079 Speaker 1: the next six and a half months are the most 162 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 1: crucial not just for this country, but I think for 163 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 1: ourselves and our psyche and understanding like where our agency is, 164 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:55,840 Speaker 1: but also Jonathan, where our impact needs to be as 165 00:10:55,920 --> 00:11:00,080 Speaker 1: individuals and as a collective. And so I wonder for you. 166 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:03,960 Speaker 1: You you know, when you talk about agency and you 167 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: say like people can still vote, we know that the 168 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:10,600 Speaker 1: voting is not happening for the next several months, and 169 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 1: so what does it look like to take care of 170 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:20,720 Speaker 1: your emotional and mental and spiritual well being at a 171 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:23,959 Speaker 1: time when this sky actually is falling. 172 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 2: Well, first, nothing will make you feel emotionally better than voting. 173 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:31,080 Speaker 2: So let's just get that out there. And I'm you 174 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,320 Speaker 2: know it's before I answer that question again, I will 175 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 2: say I've interviewed a lot of people recently because I'm 176 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 2: doing this project in the Middle East now, and like 177 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 2: for Israeli, as I talked to who are like lefty liberal, 178 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 2: you know, anti occupation, oppressed by their own government. Now, 179 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:54,440 Speaker 2: I've asked them in recent interviews like what moment would 180 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:56,439 Speaker 2: you go back to? And I thought they would say 181 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 2: before October seventh, but they all say, the day before 182 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:02,320 Speaker 2: we didn't vote as strongly as we could for the 183 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:06,000 Speaker 2: like their whole world turned the day after that election. 184 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 2: They couldn't believe how much the entire everything change. And 185 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 2: I've heard this before from people who you know, in 186 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:16,440 Speaker 2: my elder relatives in Europe, that everything was fine and 187 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 2: then twenty days later the whole world was different. And 188 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 2: so I think first of all is to conceptualize. I'm 189 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:26,200 Speaker 2: not going to give it out here to say, yes, 190 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:28,720 Speaker 2: people should take care of their mental health, that's really important, 191 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:31,960 Speaker 2: and take breaks and go on trips and do recess 192 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:34,720 Speaker 2: and all that stuff. But I also think staying engaged 193 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:37,959 Speaker 2: is really really important. So I think the natural answer 194 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 2: for somebody like me, a psychiatrist, would be everybody, you know, 195 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 2: do you know, do all the roofie you need to, 196 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 2: that's for sure, and float around and stuff like that. 197 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:49,960 Speaker 2: But honestly, we need to stay engaged right now, like 198 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 2: we're up against the other side who they're not. They're 199 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 2: super engaged and they feel energized. And the reason I 200 00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 2: want to highlight, even though I know it's problematic and 201 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:02,320 Speaker 2: any other ways, but the Israeli example, why I think 202 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 2: it's useful for us to think about, is if you 203 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 2: look at all this election data in Israel, the election 204 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 2: that got Nittanyahu and people who were a million times 205 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:14,920 Speaker 2: worse than Natanyahu in power and created all these things 206 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 2: and didn't change the course in the country. The Liberals 207 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 2: were told their vote didn't matter, and they voted roughly 208 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 2: in the same numbers they had voted in the election before, 209 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 2: but they didn't realize that conservatives were all being told, 210 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:31,439 Speaker 2: this is our moment to take control over the liberals. 211 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 2: And so the conservatives, the right wing, all these people 212 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 2: in Israel, all the messianic nut jobs, they all voted 213 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 2: one point five times their usual average, much more than 214 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 2: they normally did, and so we should again take care 215 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 2: of our health. But I'm resisting giving a psychiatrist answer 216 00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:52,200 Speaker 2: because I also think it's important to note we're up 217 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:55,679 Speaker 2: against another side that is not resting right now, and 218 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:58,480 Speaker 2: so do what you need to know for sure, but 219 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 2: also recognize that like engagement is really important, civic engagement 220 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:05,959 Speaker 2: is really important right now because the message that we're 221 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 2: being told is to check out because the system doesn't 222 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:10,319 Speaker 2: matter for us. So I apologize. I know you want 223 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 2: me to tell people to. 224 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:14,320 Speaker 1: Like, No, I want you to tell people the truth. 225 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 1: It isn't like I tell people all of the time. 226 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 1: I mean, the whole point of will Gay Up is 227 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 1: to make people conscious to the systemic injustices that we 228 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:27,720 Speaker 1: are existing under and in right. And I think that 229 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 1: the point is that I also want people to recognize 230 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 1: that we don't need everyone to be engaging in rapid response. 231 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 1: I need some people to be thinking about like what 232 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 1: impact actually looks like, right, and what real change and 233 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:46,040 Speaker 1: sustainable change looks like. 234 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 2: Right. 235 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:50,720 Speaker 1: Like everyone has a role to play in this moment. 236 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 1: And also you can't really navigate this moment if you 237 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 1: are emotionally, spiritually and physically unwell. Right, So I don't 238 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:02,840 Speaker 1: I believe that there is a both and proposition. You 239 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:06,560 Speaker 1: can be engaged and also take good care of your 240 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 1: emotional and physical and spiritual well being, because one can't 241 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 1: happen without the other. 242 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 2: It's interesting. I gave a talk where was I? I 243 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 2: think I was in pisforg okaying a lot of talks recently, 244 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:23,480 Speaker 2: and I was talking about how gun owners felt energized 245 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 2: because there was a forty year NRA plan to take 246 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 2: over the Supreme Court and kind of everybody knew it, 247 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 2: but they were part of this really coherent narrative which 248 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 2: was partially about guns. That was my talk, but it 249 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 2: was also that the end goal wasn't guns. The end 250 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 2: goal was taking over the Supreme Court and owning the 251 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 2: lips and somehow like people all up and down the 252 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:49,240 Speaker 2: food chain for the right that I interviewed, I said 253 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 2: felt like, oh, this is our strategy and it actually 254 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 2: which makes sense of some of the interviews I did 255 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 2: and Dying of Whiteness. Also it made sense to them 256 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 2: and they felt like, oh, this is our strategy in 257 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 2: a way, and I realized it's harder with our side 258 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 2: because we had ninety thousand different strategies. But I do 259 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 2: think there's a lot of anxiety because we don't have 260 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 2: a coherent long term strategy. And so somebody in the 261 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 2: audience said, how can we give that strategy? How can 262 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 2: we teach liberals? She was like, how can I teach 263 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 2: my liberal students to play the long game? And I said, well, first, 264 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:27,359 Speaker 2: think about all the barriers to thinking about the long game. Right, 265 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 2: the whole world is trying to get you to have 266 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:31,640 Speaker 2: an immediate response to something you just heard about five 267 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 2: seconds ago. But that's a strategy to make you feel overwhelmed, right. 268 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 2: In other words, long game doesn't come from TikTok. In fact, 269 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 2: TikTok disrupts the long game, and so in a way, 270 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 2: having people not But it was just interesting for me 271 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 2: how many gun people I interviewed in twenty eleven, you 272 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 2: know or something who felt like, yeah, man, this is crazy, 273 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 2: but this is our long term strategy. And I mean, like, really, 274 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 2: people who were part of this grassroots thing. So I 275 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 2: don't know. I think part of anxiety is about I 276 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:04,480 Speaker 2: don't know how to say this, but it's like almost 277 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 2: like it's like having nine hundred agendas but no long 278 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 2: game in a way, and also consciously being distracted from 279 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:14,240 Speaker 2: having a long game. So I just feel like a 280 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:16,439 Speaker 2: lot of this anxiety if we all felt like, oh 281 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:18,680 Speaker 2: my god, we're working on the Obama campaign right now 282 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 2: and it's all about hope and all these things, like 283 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 2: we had one narrative. So I just again, I again, 284 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:30,480 Speaker 2: everybody should go for a jog, or buy a fake pet, 285 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:33,440 Speaker 2: or water your plants. All that stuff is really important. 286 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 2: I'm making a lot of jokes about like self care. 287 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 2: Self care is important, but I also think, like why 288 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:41,399 Speaker 2: are I just feel like people on our side are 289 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:46,400 Speaker 2: feeling disproportionate amount of anxiety because we need a coherent 290 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:48,960 Speaker 2: long term strategy that's not generated by social media. 291 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:54,160 Speaker 1: But that's exactly right, Like one social media, the whole 292 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:56,440 Speaker 1: point is to get you to stay on, and there's 293 00:17:56,480 --> 00:18:00,359 Speaker 1: nothing that makes you stay on more than like doom 294 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:04,879 Speaker 1: scrolling and catastrophe, right, Like that's what's that's the point 295 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:07,120 Speaker 1: and the goal. So Once you know that, you can 296 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 1: decide how you want to utilize social media, right, do 297 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:12,879 Speaker 1: you want to stay in doom scroll or do you 298 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:16,240 Speaker 1: want to take respites from that? And that doesn't necessarily 299 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:20,879 Speaker 1: again mean just like tuning out, because to your point, 300 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 1: the opposition isn't tuning out, but they are also inside 301 00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:27,439 Speaker 1: of a very loud echo chamber. And that's what I 302 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:31,359 Speaker 1: want people to understand too, is that, like, I don't 303 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:36,360 Speaker 1: really know to the extent of how big the rights 304 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:39,879 Speaker 1: movement is. I don't know if it's thirty percent or 305 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:43,480 Speaker 1: fifty percent or sixty percent. I have no idea because 306 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:48,880 Speaker 1: of how cable news and how social media amplifies their 307 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 1: messaging and their points and their wins, right, And so, 308 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 1: which is why every time that there's an abortion ballot measure, 309 00:18:56,640 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 1: we're shocked that like it doesn't pass, because people actually 310 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:03,880 Speaker 1: do show up. So we say that people aren't engaged, 311 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:06,960 Speaker 1: but clearly, when the message is very clear about what's 312 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 1: at stake, they are very engaged and they show up 313 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:13,359 Speaker 1: to our surprise. Every time that we've heard there be 314 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:17,120 Speaker 1: talk about a red wave that has not happened, right, 315 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:20,880 Speaker 1: And so not to say to rest on our laurels 316 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 1: and think that there isn't work to do. There is 317 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 1: absolutely work to do, but I think how we do 318 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:31,399 Speaker 1: that work is really what my question is is if 319 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 1: if you're using the Israelis as an example and their 320 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 1: post mortem on Netanyahu's election one example, one example, you know, 321 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:43,960 Speaker 1: if you're using it as one example and like the 322 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:48,000 Speaker 1: reflection on you know, what should have happened prior to 323 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:51,720 Speaker 1: I guess it is if we're using that, then what 324 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:54,400 Speaker 1: should be happening six months ahead of time? 325 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:59,199 Speaker 2: Well, I think the main thing, like it's worth like 326 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:03,440 Speaker 2: I it really does fall back on your own social networks. 327 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 2: I mean, I think that's also true right that in 328 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 2: a way, everything you're talking about that the mobilizing all 329 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:13,720 Speaker 2: those kind of things, it doesn't mean convincing people who 330 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:16,359 Speaker 2: weren't going to vote for stuff we care about to 331 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 2: vote for it. It means it means mobilizing in your 332 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:22,879 Speaker 2: own social networks to get people who aren't going to 333 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:26,120 Speaker 2: vote to vote. Because the whole strategy, I mean, we've 334 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 2: talked about this a million times, but like from that 335 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:32,440 Speaker 2: Cambridge Analyticas strategy on down, the strategy to their side 336 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 2: is to get people to feel like their vote doesn't matter. 337 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:37,359 Speaker 2: Or the system is not working for them. It's not 338 00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 2: to get them to vote for Trump. It's to get 339 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:42,719 Speaker 2: them to not vote or to vote for you know, 340 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 2: Jill Stein or something like that. And so in a way, 341 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:48,879 Speaker 2: it's really about like mobilizing your own networks to vote. 342 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:50,920 Speaker 2: I think that's you know, if everybody, if everybody in 343 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:54,199 Speaker 2: all of our networks votes were in fine shape, you know, 344 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 2: I mean fine shape as much as staving off this catastrophe. 345 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 2: But then we still have a lot of work to do, obviously. 346 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:04,239 Speaker 2: But so I would say, like fighting disengagement in your 347 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:08,840 Speaker 2: own networks is certainly very important. Explaining to people how 348 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:12,920 Speaker 2: we're being tricked into thinking the system won't work for 349 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 2: us is very important. And here's where I'm going to 350 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:19,159 Speaker 2: ask you my question. Now, the number of times I 351 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 2: want to be I want to craft a tweet about this, 352 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:22,920 Speaker 2: will you help me craft a tweet because I'm bad 353 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:26,119 Speaker 2: at tweeting. The number of times that I've heard people 354 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 2: say this fill in the blank and that's therefore, how 355 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:36,120 Speaker 2: can anybody vote for Biden? But I hear people on 356 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:40,119 Speaker 2: both sides of exactly the same issue say it. So 357 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:43,639 Speaker 2: in other words, like there was a rabbi in the 358 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:46,800 Speaker 2: security line in the airport yesterday when I was flying, 359 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 2: and he said he's not letting us fight back against Iran. 360 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,400 Speaker 2: How could anybody in their right mind vote for Joe? 361 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:55,360 Speaker 2: How could any Jewish person in the right mind vote 362 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:59,240 Speaker 2: for Joe Biden? And I just thought, man, that's exactly 363 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:01,359 Speaker 2: the same thing I've heard from like my progressive colleagues. 364 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:03,639 Speaker 2: But the exact opposite side, How can anybody in the 365 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:07,160 Speaker 2: right mine vote for Biden? Because he's you know, genocide 366 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:08,720 Speaker 2: Joe and all that kind of thing. So the exact 367 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,280 Speaker 2: opposite side, how can anybody? But it's also true for 368 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 2: a million issues that it's like totally both sides of 369 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 2: the coin lead to how could anybody vote for Joe Biden? 370 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:22,159 Speaker 2: And you know, I just want to scream, like, what 371 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 2: do you think is going to like do you think 372 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 2: Trump is going to answer and make both sides of 373 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 2: this debate happy or something? So I don't know, it's 374 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:34,440 Speaker 2: just weird. How much like it's just weird how many 375 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 2: issues people on both sides see, Oh, and therefore Trump 376 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 2: is going to be a better option than we have now. 377 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,960 Speaker 1: So it's not that's not that and I it's a 378 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 1: reframing that needs to happen, because that's not what people think. 379 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 1: They don't think that Trump is going to be better, 380 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:55,400 Speaker 1: So it's not. The retort to that is not, well, 381 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:57,439 Speaker 1: Donald Trump is not going to be any better. The 382 00:22:57,520 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 1: retort to that, to me, and what I have been 383 00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:02,960 Speaker 1: doing doing is to revert it back to people's rights 384 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:06,000 Speaker 1: and freedoms. Like I continue to say that this election 385 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:09,400 Speaker 1: is not between Joe Biden and Donald Trump. It's between 386 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 1: the rights that you want to have and the rights 387 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 1: that you're willing to lose. That's it, Like it isn't. 388 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,679 Speaker 1: It isn't. I'm not going to have you know, larger 389 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 1: conversations about you know, democracy on Twitter and this and that. 390 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,320 Speaker 1: But it's just like I continue to say that you 391 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:27,679 Speaker 1: are not going to be able to fight for democracy 392 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:30,480 Speaker 1: or whatever your version of democracy is elsewhere if you 393 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 1: lose it in these United States. So the question is 394 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 1: what rights are you willing to lose that you have 395 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:41,199 Speaker 1: not lost already? Right, And have people understand that things 396 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:46,520 Speaker 1: if Donald Trump becomes president will change at a pace 397 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:50,919 Speaker 1: that no one is actually prepared for. Like it's not 398 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:53,560 Speaker 1: going to take four years, it's not going to take 399 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:57,639 Speaker 1: four months, Right, And so I think that The response 400 00:23:57,720 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 1: to that is not, well, do you think that Donald 401 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 1: Trump will be better? It's what rights are you willing 402 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 1: to give up? 403 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:07,000 Speaker 2: Do you think there's a way? And again, it just 404 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:10,359 Speaker 2: the irony for me is people don't see it right. 405 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 2: It's just people on both sides of the same issue, 406 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:15,040 Speaker 2: Like it would it would make more sense intellectually, even 407 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:16,879 Speaker 2: though I know, of course you're right, It would make 408 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:21,120 Speaker 2: more sense intellectually for me if people had said he's 409 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,639 Speaker 2: he's pro gun and or he's anti gun and I'm 410 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 2: progun or something like that, like in other words, like 411 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 2: my candidate is going to deliver for me better than 412 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:32,240 Speaker 2: Joe Biden is or something like that. But it's not 413 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 2: even linked to that. It's almost like Trump becomes the 414 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:39,200 Speaker 2: default choice because Biden isn't delivering on phil And yeah, 415 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 2: I mean Biden's not delivering on a lot of things, 416 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:42,720 Speaker 2: no doubt. 417 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 1: We're not at a place of impossibility at this moment. 418 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 1: We still have choices. Yeah, so it's like, what what 419 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 1: are you choosing? Are you choosing your rights right or 420 00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:00,239 Speaker 1: are you choosing not to have any more rights? Like 421 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:04,480 Speaker 1: that to me is the fundamental thing, Like you know, 422 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:07,320 Speaker 1: you think that if you're living in a blue state 423 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:10,440 Speaker 1: that oh, I'm going to be safe. No, you are 424 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:14,320 Speaker 1: not right. We have the National Guard in the subway 425 00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 1: stations here without any clear guidance onto when when they're 426 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 1: going to leave. 427 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:22,320 Speaker 2: There was an excellent essay in the Trace about that. 428 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:25,920 Speaker 1: Actually, yeah, you have abortion right now in this state, 429 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:30,159 Speaker 1: but not an anti abortion agenda becomes nationalized. So to me, 430 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:34,520 Speaker 1: the conversation isn't about like, well, how can you vote 431 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:38,200 Speaker 1: for Joe Biden? It's how can you even consider voting 432 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:39,560 Speaker 1: against your own rights? 433 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:41,960 Speaker 2: And also, I mean, maybe there's a way to also 434 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:45,400 Speaker 2: you tell me aspirationally put a spin on that, which 435 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:49,760 Speaker 2: I really do believe that America has the opportunity to 436 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:55,520 Speaker 2: show the world how to fight back against totalitarianism. In 437 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,199 Speaker 2: other words, like, there's so many societies that are on 438 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 2: the brink right now. India really comes to mind a lot, 439 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 2: but Argentina, and I mean the list is really long. 440 00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:11,240 Speaker 2: And so if America has the you know, America can 441 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:14,359 Speaker 2: show the world how to save democracy. I mean, I 442 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:16,919 Speaker 2: realize we don't. We're not great at looking globally in 443 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:21,400 Speaker 2: this country, but maybe there's a way to also frame 444 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:24,080 Speaker 2: it that way, or you think it's about everybody. The 445 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:25,679 Speaker 2: way we think in this country, it's all about our 446 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:26,960 Speaker 2: rights and our freedoms. 447 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 1: I mean, I think that right now it is all 448 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:30,919 Speaker 1: about our rights and our freedoms. I don't think that 449 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 1: we're really interested in what and how to frame it globally. 450 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:39,240 Speaker 1: I think that the issue is having people really focus 451 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:43,119 Speaker 1: honestly on themselves. Yeah, and that is going to be 452 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,480 Speaker 1: the way. That's going to be the way forward is 453 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:50,400 Speaker 1: I need people to really think about themselves, their lives, 454 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:54,240 Speaker 1: their families over the next few months and ask yourself, 455 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 1: you know, what are you willing to lose from what 456 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,119 Speaker 1: it is that you have right now, because you will 457 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:01,520 Speaker 1: lose a lot. 458 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 2: I wish people could hear some of these interviews I'm doing. 459 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:06,240 Speaker 2: I mean, I'm writing it up a little bit, but 460 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,680 Speaker 2: it's kind of like it's one of those moments, like 461 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,679 Speaker 2: remember the moment after Trump won, Like the next day, 462 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 2: everybody was crying and in shock, like people kind of 463 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:19,159 Speaker 2: realized in other places that just how deeply their world 464 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 2: completely completely changed, Like in one day, every just the 465 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:27,240 Speaker 2: air was flowing in a different direction and stuff like that, 466 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,720 Speaker 2: Like the entire world was totally different. And so I 467 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:32,679 Speaker 2: don't know this. It's just like if you can have 468 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:36,320 Speaker 2: people see that moment where you know where, like they 469 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:38,239 Speaker 2: were like, why can't I go back three days and 470 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 2: like whatever, and again we have an awful lot of imperfection. 471 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:44,959 Speaker 2: And part of the reason it's hard for Biden right 472 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,960 Speaker 2: now is because, like our coalition is a lot of 473 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 2: people asking like am I in coalition with that? You know? 474 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 2: I mean, like our coalition is really divergent in a 475 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:59,919 Speaker 2: lot of ways. But man, I don't know. I just 476 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,639 Speaker 2: like that that moment of like the day after and 477 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,800 Speaker 2: can I ever redo? I mean, it would be a 478 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,239 Speaker 2: million times more intense for us than that moment of 479 00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:12,720 Speaker 2: like why didn't Hillary Clinton campaign more in the restel 480 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:13,720 Speaker 2: you know stuff like that. 481 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:17,159 Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, well we will have to leave it 482 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:21,439 Speaker 1: there today, my friend, thank you as always for making 483 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:23,520 Speaker 1: time for wok af. 484 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,400 Speaker 2: Always appreciate you hanging there everybody. 485 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:36,200 Speaker 1: Indeed, that is it for me today, dear friends on 486 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:40,040 Speaker 1: wok f as always, power to the people and to 487 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 1: all the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.