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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. He did it all. He

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Speaker 1: prosecuted rapes, sex assaults, kidnaps, murders, and he did it well.

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Speaker 1: A dad, a husband. So what happened to renowned attorney

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Speaker 1: Ray Greek Card crime stories with Nancy Grace. Let's just

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Speaker 1: start at the beginning. Take a listen to this. Initially,

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Speaker 1: you know, Patty called our office that night and reported

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Speaker 1: that Raid had gone to she thought, to the Louisburg

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Speaker 1: area to do some shopping, antique shopping and stuff, and

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Speaker 1: he hadn't returned home yet. Well, initially we thought maybe

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Speaker 1: his car broke down something of that nature, that he

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Speaker 1: decided to stay overnight. He wasn't feeling well, so we

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Speaker 1: went down and not we went down, but we initiated

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Speaker 1: some phone calls stuff to state police, to Louisburg Police,

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Speaker 1: to Milton State Police, you know, telling him, hey, the

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Speaker 1: Center County disc attorney has not had has not come

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Speaker 1: home yet. We think he was in the Louisburg area

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Speaker 1: earlier today, m s where he was supposedly going, and

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Speaker 1: they initiated some searches down there. So how does he

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Speaker 1: seemingly just drop off the map? A well known prosecuting

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Speaker 1: attorney in good standing there in the bar, joining me

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Speaker 1: an Ulstar panel to try it makes sense of the

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Speaker 1: disappearance of Ray greek Car Joining me. Bob muner Or,

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Speaker 1: former Monto account District Attorney, former president of the Pennsylvania

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Speaker 1: District Attorney's Office, friend and very close colleague of the victim,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Sherry Swords joining us. For instance, psychologists specializing in

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Speaker 1: criminal behavior at panther mitigation dot com. And she is

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Speaker 1: the author of Criminal Behavior and Where Law and Psychology Intersect.

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Speaker 1: Boy do we need her. Lisa Daddio, former police lieutenant

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Speaker 1: in Haven Police Department, Senior lecturer and director of the

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Speaker 1: Center for Advanced Policing with me right now, and let's

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Speaker 1: go to her first. Rebecca Knight joining us her podcast

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Speaker 1: Final Argument The Disappearance of District Attorney Ray Greekar and

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Speaker 1: you can also find her at Ray Greek dot com.

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Speaker 1: Rebecca Knight, let's just start at the beginning. There are

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Speaker 1: a lot of questions, a lot of speculations surrounding the

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Speaker 1: disappearance of Ray Greek are really in the prime of

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Speaker 1: his life, at the height of his legal career. But

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Speaker 1: let's start at the beginning. You know, Rebecca, when cases

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Speaker 1: falter and they go so called cold. That's what you do.

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Speaker 1: You start at the beginning, the day the person disappeared,

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Speaker 1: Where they were last seen, was the home ransacked, was

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Speaker 1: the car wrecked? All of the elementary building blocks that

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Speaker 1: start an investigation. And that's where we're starting right now

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Speaker 1: in the unusual disappearance of Greek Car. Back to you,

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Speaker 1: Rebecca Knight, tell me about the day he goes missing.

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Speaker 1: The day Ray greek Car went missing, they didn't find

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Speaker 1: his car for thirty six hours, and one of the

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Speaker 1: things I wanted to look at was what was happening

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Speaker 1: during those thirty six hours before the police finally found

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Speaker 1: his car. Okay, pause right there. I hate to interrupt, Rebecca,

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Speaker 1: but when I say start at the beginning, I mean

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Speaker 1: really the beginning, not thirty six hours after the beginning. Now, you,

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Speaker 1: being such an incredible investigative writer and reporter, are going

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Speaker 1: straight to the heart of the matter. But for those

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Speaker 1: of us Luod Eyes that like to start with who,

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Speaker 1: what where? Hawaiian? When? What day did he go missing?

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Speaker 1: April fifteen, two thousand and five, Tax Day? That's how

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Speaker 1: I always remember the day that Ray Grecar went missing.

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Speaker 1: It was tax day. And let me ask you this,

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Speaker 1: Rebecca Knight, what time of the day was he last

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Speaker 1: known to be alive or was seen? You can time

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Speaker 1: that based on a phone call, a message, a text,

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Speaker 1: a surveillance video at the grocery store, anything. He made

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Speaker 1: a phone call to his girlfriend, Patty Fornicola from his

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Speaker 1: county issued telephone at around eleven fifteen that morning on Friday,

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Speaker 1: April fifteenth, And based on that phone call to his

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Speaker 1: then girlfriend, where was he and what was he doing?

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Speaker 1: Ray Greekar was traveling east one ninety two in Pennsylvania.

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Speaker 1: He was going through an area called Brush Valley in

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Speaker 1: a very very rural area of Pennsylvania. He was in

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Speaker 1: his Mini Cooper, his red and white Mini Cooper, and

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Speaker 1: he was traveling down one ninety two on his way

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Speaker 1: to Louisbourg, Pennsylvania. Why was he going to Louisbourg, Well,

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Speaker 1: no one knows why he was going to Lewisburg, but

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Speaker 1: we do know that he had been to Louisbourg many

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Speaker 1: many times before. Very very interesting to me, guys. Joining

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Speaker 1: me is reporter Rebecca Knight, and she is a creator

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Speaker 1: of a podcast, Final Argument, The Disappearance of District Attorney

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Speaker 1: Ray Greekar and you can find her at Ray Greecar

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Speaker 1: dot com. You know, I want to go to you,

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Speaker 1: Bob Buner, a former district attorney passed president of the

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Speaker 1: DA's associate And that's not easy to attain, but more

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Speaker 1: important as it relates to this moment, friend and colleague

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Speaker 1: of Ray Greekar. You know, Bob, how far was his

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Speaker 1: home from? Was it Lewisburg where he was traveling or

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Speaker 1: Lewiston's Approximately from Bilfond, the county seat of Center County

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Speaker 1: where he was DA to Louisbourg approximately sixty miles, basically

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Speaker 1: going over mountains and forests between the two communities. And

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Speaker 1: hold on, hold on, hold on, because I'm going very slowly.

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Speaker 1: And Bob, I don't know how you prosecuted all your cases,

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Speaker 1: but I can tell you this. When the medical examiners

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Speaker 1: saw me pulling up and my beat up Honda, I'm

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Speaker 1: sure they all wanted to hide beneath their chairs because

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Speaker 1: I would have to take apart every single sentence of

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Speaker 1: their Latin jargon no offense shorts but to make sense that.

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Speaker 1: So let me just understand what you just said. So

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Speaker 1: very often, according to Rebecca Knight, and for no apparent reason,

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Speaker 1: Ray GREEKR would travel sixty miles through forest and over

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Speaker 1: a mountain to get to is that lewis Burger, Lewiston? Lewisburg?

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Speaker 1: Do we have any idea because, for instance, when I

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Speaker 1: was living in Atlanta, I would very often, if someone

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Speaker 1: could pull up my navigation system, drive ninety miles south

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Speaker 1: on the interstate. Why because I was going to my hometown.

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Speaker 1: I'd make it to check on my parents or my parents' home.

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Speaker 1: And there was a reason for that. But I find

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Speaker 1: this very interesting. Why is Ray GREEKR traveling over a

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Speaker 1: mountain three four or sixty miles could be two hours,

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Speaker 1: depending on the mountain. Why what was it Lewisburg? Actually

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Speaker 1: antique shops? Nancy? There are several well known antique places

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Speaker 1: that are kind of co and Ray had an interest

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Speaker 1: in certain types of antipially antique cameras, so he would

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Speaker 1: go to a pub. Okay, stop, stop everything. I'm always surprised,

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Speaker 1: pleasantly and thrilled when I learned something I haven't already

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Speaker 1: gleaned from my research and investigation. I knew he was

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Speaker 1: into antiquing, I did not know that specialty prime stories

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Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. This is opening up a whole plevera

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Speaker 1: of possibilities for me by Bena, because I didn't realize

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Speaker 1: he was that deep into the antiquing world. And you

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Speaker 1: know how they haggle over prices, and if you're really

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Speaker 1: into something like some vintage camera from nineteen whatever, you

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Speaker 1: could go down all sorts of rabbit holes trying to

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Speaker 1: get that and come in contact with a lot of

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Speaker 1: people that could be scamming you. That's true. I think

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Speaker 1: he had a pretty sophisticated knowledge of anti cameras, the polaroids,

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Speaker 1: and the codacts of the day, and so I don't

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Speaker 1: know that he could be scammed because he was pretty

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Speaker 1: astute in things involving his interest in antiques. Bob, you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't mean he doesn't know what he's doing. I

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Speaker 1: mean someone, for instance, one thing I cover a lot.

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Speaker 1: I even write about it in my knee book, Don't

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Speaker 1: Be a Victim PS. All the money goes to National

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Speaker 1: Center Missing Exported Children, if you want to pick it up, Bob.

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Speaker 1: But about buying or doing business online, because I've covered

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Speaker 1: so many cases where people go to, for instance, a

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Speaker 1: marketplace online and then they show up across town to

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Speaker 1: get the item in Bam, they get killed and robbed, raped,

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Speaker 1: the whole shebang. So I'm not saying he's not astute.

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Speaker 1: I'm saying that, I'm saying there's a possibility he was

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Speaker 1: led down a rabbit hole thinking he was going to

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Speaker 1: get X and when they got there, all he ended

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Speaker 1: up getting was the wrong end of a gun barrel. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: What we know, Nancy, is that approximately two pm on

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Speaker 1: April fifteenth, he had parked his mini Morris Cooper by

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Speaker 1: the river bridge that goes over the Susquehanna River into Louisbourg. Okay,

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Speaker 1: Bob being her another thing. You know, I know you

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Speaker 1: hate the interruptions because you're used to having control over

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Speaker 1: that whole courtroom and nobody dares interrupt your opening your clothing.

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Speaker 1: But you know they did not teach me shorthand in

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Speaker 1: law school. So slow down, buddy, Okay, two fifteen pm,

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Speaker 1: April fifteen, Go ahead, I've gotten that far. He is

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Speaker 1: standing on a sidewalk outside as many Morris Cooper. Three

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Speaker 1: individuals working in a museum right across the street from

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Speaker 1: where he had parked his car observed him, and their

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Speaker 1: statements to the police indicated that it appeared to them

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Speaker 1: that he was waiting for someone and in fact had

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Speaker 1: actually moved his car a couple of spaces away from

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Speaker 1: where it initially parked, as if to make a parking

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Speaker 1: spot available for someone else. And that's what we just

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Speaker 1: in here. Ye, yes, Rebecca, I was just going to

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Speaker 1: come to you. Do we know who he was meeting? Well,

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Speaker 1: one of my witnesses that I interviewed said, and I'm

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Speaker 1: trying to pick up the scene here where Bob Jess

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Speaker 1: talked about him being in that park across the street

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Speaker 1: from the museum. One of my witnesses, and I spoke

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Speaker 1: with her several times, and she told the police this

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Speaker 1: that it looked like She said, he looked like he

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Speaker 1: was on a cell phone, walking back and forth and

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Speaker 1: gesturing with his arms, sometimes wildly. In other words, what's

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Speaker 1: going on? When I got the copy of the case file,

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Speaker 1: I looked at his cell phone records for his county

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Speaker 1: issued cell phone, and there were no other numbers on there,

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Speaker 1: of course, that he had made that day, which tells

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Speaker 1: me that this woman may have seen him using a

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Speaker 1: burner phone. Okay, because I again the phone stop again,

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Speaker 1: Rebecca Night, did you speak to the witness face to face? Yes?

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Speaker 1: I did. You looked in their faces they were telling

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Speaker 1: you this. Most everyone I talked to I would go

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Speaker 1: to see them because I have to look at people

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Speaker 1: in the eye. I've got to see their faces because,

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Speaker 1: as you know, Bob Uner, all your years as the

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Speaker 1: Montour County District Attorney, a lot of times and I

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Speaker 1: know other people will mark this, don't care. You can

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Speaker 1: tell when somebody's lying. Oh absolutely. Now I find that

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Speaker 1: really very interesting because I mean doctor Sherry Schwartz, forensics

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Speaker 1: psychologists specializing in criminal behavior defense attorney would argue to

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Speaker 1: a jury just because it would have thought the person

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Speaker 1: was on their phone walking back and forth. Gesticulating does

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Speaker 1: in no way mean a burner phone. But you know what,

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Speaker 1: I think a jury would disagree. And when someone is

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Speaker 1: wildly gesticulating, I am moving their hands or arms around

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Speaker 1: as they speak or not speak. Moving their hands and

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Speaker 1: arms around. That tells me they were communicating with someone

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Speaker 1: and they were agitated. So we've got him at two

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Speaker 1: fifteen pm the day he goes missing and taking in

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Speaker 1: another town an hour and a half, two hours away,

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Speaker 1: angry or upset and gesticulating. That tells me a lot

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Speaker 1: that has never come to light on a national platform.

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Speaker 1: To my knowledge, Rebecca and Bob, what do you make

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Speaker 1: of at Sherry? This is very important, especially if the

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Speaker 1: witnesses deemed credible. Right if a jury here's this witness

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Speaker 1: testify and witnesses are generally truth telling, if they have

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Speaker 1: no vested interest in the outcome of a case, then

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Speaker 1: this is very important information, you know. And he was

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Speaker 1: noticeable clearly, not just because of the behavior, but as

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Speaker 1: Rebecca points out in her podcast, the car was very rare, right,

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Speaker 1: so if he's near the car, people might notice him.

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Speaker 1: And then if he's having this conversation, I mean we

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Speaker 1: all sort of engage in that little bit of voyeurism

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Speaker 1: in public. Right when you see somebody flailing their arms

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Speaker 1: and maybe you can even hear them, but they appear agitated,

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Speaker 1: you think, oh, they're having an argument with somebody. Right,

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Speaker 1: So this is observable behavior that indicates that something's up

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Speaker 1: with Ray Greek car and so. And it's troubling if

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Speaker 1: there's no evidence of that call at that time. That's

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Speaker 1: right on exactly those Rebecca, those phone records, and they're

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Speaker 1: not there no other calls. Guys, take a listen again

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Speaker 1: to the first elite investigator on the case. Is that

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Speaker 1: Darryl Zikane and he's speaking to penline dot com. Listen,

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Speaker 1: car the license played for it, you know, and basically

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Speaker 1: we started a missing person's report, you know, look for

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Speaker 1: this gentleman. When I got in in the morning, it

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Speaker 1: was the first I had heard about it. Is when

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Speaker 1: I got to work that morning and the chief and

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Speaker 1: I he told me about it and said, come on,

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Speaker 1: let's go talk to Patty. And from there we went

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Speaker 1: up to see Patty and things just progressed with them

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Speaker 1: where you know, we started a series of different searches

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Speaker 1: over of course a period of time. Then you know

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Speaker 1: on what we're going to do. I think initially we

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Speaker 1: were holding out hope that you know that Ray had

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Speaker 1: just got nil, had decided to stay overnight to do

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Speaker 1: some more shopping, and his cell phone went dead or

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Speaker 1: something and he didn't get hold of Patty and he

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Speaker 1: would show up in the morning and stuff. So some

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Speaker 1: confusion about the night before, but that in no way

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Speaker 1: in the gates where he was at two fifteen pm

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Speaker 1: the day he's last seen a lot. But listen to

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Speaker 1: our friend Lester Holt at Dateline NBC. When Ray Greekar

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Speaker 1: disappeared in April two thousand and five. He had everything

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Speaker 1: to live for. He'd learned how to kick back a

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Speaker 1: bit outside of the office. The Ray I knew great

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Speaker 1: sense of humor. You had to know him to see it.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes it was dry, it was compassionate, just a wonderful person.

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Speaker 1: Ray and girlfriend Patty loved to take long drives together

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Speaker 1: and go antiking. We mostly bought dishes because they were small.

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Speaker 1: The house is small, so we had to stick to

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Speaker 1: small things, but dishes or books. Ray was an avid reader.

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Speaker 1: Ray had served as District attorney of Center County for

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Speaker 1: nearly twenty years, and he had a sterling reputation. Bob

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Speaker 1: being her longtime friend and colleague of Ray. Greek car.

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Speaker 1: How does the name Jerry Sandusky fit into this scenario.

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Speaker 1: I think it's a very much of a in one sense,

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Speaker 1: a red herring Nancy, because what happened in two eleven,

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Speaker 1: Jerry Sandusky was arrested for child abuse and the world

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Speaker 1: media descended into Center County, and when they got there,

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Speaker 1: they discovered, hey, there's a missing district attorney from two

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Speaker 1: thousand and five, who back in nineteen ninety eight did

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Speaker 1: investigate a charge of child abuse against Jerry Sandusky. But

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Speaker 1: felt there was not enough information or evidence to have

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Speaker 1: an arrest made, so naturally people started speculating, well, the

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Speaker 1: Jerry Sandusky case and the disappearance of Ray Greek are

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Speaker 1: somehow connected. I have never seen that connection, and I

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Speaker 1: have studied this case for years Prime Stories with Nancy Grace,

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Speaker 1: So I guess the connection straight out to renowned investigator,

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Speaker 1: Lisa M. Daddio, former lieutenant you have in police senior lecturer,

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Speaker 1: I guess the theory regarding the famed or let me

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Speaker 1: say infamous coach Jerry Sanduski, the theory would be that

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Speaker 1: Ray greekar knew about the child molestation, well the molestation charges,

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Speaker 1: and did nothing, and that someone came and sought revenge

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Speaker 1: on him. I guess that would be the working theory. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I guess you can make that stretch. For me,

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Speaker 1: it seems a little bizarre strange to make that type

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Speaker 1: of connection. If he had reviewed something, you know, several

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Speaker 1: years prior and had declined prosecution for whatever reason, why

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Speaker 1: is this now coming up years later when he disappears.

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Speaker 1: You know, That's something I've argued to juries many, many times,

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Speaker 1: Lisa Daddio, because very often a defense attorney or really

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Speaker 1: someone that hasn't tried a lot of cases or investigated

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Speaker 1: a lot. They actually believe movie scripts and books and novels.

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Speaker 1: They think that it's very common for there to be

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Speaker 1: revenge killings. Well maybe in the mafia. Maybe in the mafia, Okay,

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Speaker 1: definitely in the mafia, there are revenge killings. But in

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Speaker 1: real life, I mean, think this thing through. If you

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Speaker 1: were angry because Jerry Sandusky raped your son or molested

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Speaker 1: your child, why not kill Jerry Sandusky? Why go dig

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Speaker 1: up ray Greekar and the home he was he had

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Speaker 1: there and follow him when he's antiquing and kill him

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Speaker 1: and dispose of his body. That that doesn't make sense.

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Speaker 1: Why not kill Sandusky? Well that, yeah, it doesn't investigation.

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Speaker 1: What is this, Rebecca or Lisa? This is Rebecca? Okay,

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Speaker 1: go ahead. Well I didn't think that this. First of all,

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Speaker 1: I think he was murdered. I think it was a

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Speaker 1: professional hit. I think that it was not a revenge killing.

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Speaker 1: But what I do think and I think that the

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Speaker 1: evidence from the case file, together with all of the

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Speaker 1: interviews I did through the years and talked with hundreds

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Speaker 1: of people, and some people that the police never even

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Speaker 1: talked to, was that I put together a picture of

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Speaker 1: merch for me, and I believe that Ray Greecar was

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Speaker 1: working on the biggest case of his life. I think

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Speaker 1: he was getting ready to charge Jerry Sandusky, penn State

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Speaker 1: University and the Second Mile Charity when he disappeared. That's

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Speaker 1: what my podcast is about, you know, Rebecca Night. I've

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Speaker 1: always argued there is no coincidence in criminal law right

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Speaker 1: his very in depth investigation, And it must be said

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Speaker 1: about Ray Greekar. You don't win jury trials because you

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Speaker 1: go in and show both the jury. Unless you're Johnny Cochran,

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Speaker 1: you usually win jury trials. And this is an old thing,

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Speaker 1: but it's true. It's ninety nine percent perspiration one percent inspiration.

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Speaker 1: That is how you win or succeed at anything. With

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Speaker 1: the proper preparation, if you're willing to put in the time,

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Speaker 1: you will most likely succeed. Would you agree, Bob Buner

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Speaker 1: that gree Car had a reputation of literally crossing every ta,

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Speaker 1: dotting every eye now never unprepared when he went into court, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: Ray greek Car was the most meticulous prosecutor probably in

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Speaker 1: the entire Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. He left no detail on examined.

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Speaker 1: He always asked law enforcement officials in the case the

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Speaker 1: next question, and he anticipated not just his direct examination,

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Speaker 1: but what would be subjects on cross examination, prepared his

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Speaker 1: witnesses at great length. So, yes, that was the Ray

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Speaker 1: Greek car that I know, and I think his reputation

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Speaker 1: was sterling in that regard. Preparation was the key to him.

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Speaker 1: He was something. Boy, I gotta tell you something, and

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Speaker 1: I've told it to many many a litigation class. You

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Speaker 1: have to think about not only what you're going to do,

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Speaker 1: but what they're going to do and how you're going

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Speaker 1: to counter it. You have to prepare as a prosecutor,

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Speaker 1: not only your case, but you have to anticipate and

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Speaker 1: prepare your attack on the defense case. And you're just

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Speaker 1: saying that, I'm imagining all the man hours he put

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Speaker 1: into preparing these cases. That's exactly right. So, Bob, can

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Speaker 1: you imagine the irritation of the Sandusky team when they've

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Speaker 1: got this meticulous prosecutor digging up every possible witness, leaving

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Speaker 1: no stone unturned and finding out a lot of things

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Speaker 1: they wish you didn't know. Well, I think that's one

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Speaker 1: of the things that is somewhat unknown how far in

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Speaker 1: the case file Ray was getting. He was very frustrated

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Speaker 1: back in nineteen ninety eight when a young child had

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Speaker 1: been in a shower with Sandusky and he went home

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Speaker 1: with wet hair, and the mother inquired what happened, and

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Speaker 1: the child told her mother, who then called the police,

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Speaker 1: and Ray, Greekar and the state college and university police

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Speaker 1: tried to set a trap for Sandusky, but it didn't work. So,

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Speaker 1: knowing Ray, that would have been incredibly frustrating, and he

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Speaker 1: would have worked to figure out a way to do

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Speaker 1: more investigating and find some of the areas where Sandusky

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Speaker 1: would be involved with children and explore that. And one

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Speaker 1: was called the Second Mile, a charity Sandusky had started

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Speaker 1: that was ostensibly to design for children from single family

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Speaker 1: homes to be placed in special programs or go to

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Speaker 1: special events to help them improve their lives. So we

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Speaker 1: now know that that was a cover for Sandusky, so

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Speaker 1: it was table. Let me clarify the argument that many

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Speaker 1: people have made that greek Car was shot out of

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Speaker 1: revenge because he did not go forward the Sandusky investigation.

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Speaker 1: Is the furthest thing from the truth that he was

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Speaker 1: working to sting Sandusky. Would you agree, yes? Nancy. I

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Speaker 1: would agree with that, and I think I don't see

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Speaker 1: that anybody connected with the victims of Sandusky would have

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Speaker 1: had any revenge factor at Grant greek Car. First of all,

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Speaker 1: many of them were young, and in two thousand and

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Speaker 1: five hardly any would have even reached their eighteenth birthday.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely correct. So I want to just clarify that for

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Speaker 1: are all of the haters out there that have attacked

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Speaker 1: greet Car for not pursuing Sandusky, He was, in fact

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Speaker 1: pursuing Sandusky like a bat out of hell. Take a

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Speaker 1: listen now to our cut four. This is reporter Geary

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Speaker 1: Citizen w j ACTV. Almost a decade later, many here

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Speaker 1: still remember when they first heard. I got a call.

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Speaker 1: I was actually up in State College at a breakfast

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Speaker 1: and I called that morning and Sheriff Denny Now came

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Speaker 1: in and handed me a note that said Ray greek

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Speaker 1: Car's messy, and I looked up at him and he said,

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Speaker 1: I'm not kidding. And so it began April fifteenth, two

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Speaker 1: thousand and five. I thought something bad happened to him,

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Speaker 1: because Ray was a very if you will quote, predictable individual,

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Speaker 1: long time Center County District attorney Great greekr and gree

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Speaker 1: Car was an exceptional prosecutor. I spent thirty five years

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Speaker 1: in government and worked around hundreds of attorneys, and he

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Speaker 1: was the best trial attorney I ever worked. Round becomes

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Speaker 1: a missing person and eventually a worldwide mystery case. Anyone

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Speaker 1: involved in this case has a theory. My secretary has

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Speaker 1: a theory. I'm sure you have a theory. Time Stories

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Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace Ferries series series. It sounds like reading

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Speaker 1: the tea leaves, which most people don't believe in, but

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Speaker 1: these theories are founded in reality, including a persistence and

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Speaker 1: trying to catch child molester renowned coach Jerry Sandusky. Now

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Speaker 1: take a listen now to my friend Jenkassaris with me

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Speaker 1: at HLN, what happened to Ray Grey Carr? Straight out

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Speaker 1: to Jenkassaris, Jane, what's the latest, Nancy. The latest is

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Speaker 1: that there have been no suspected sightings of Ray gree

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Speaker 1: Car since he vanished, since he went missing. But the

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Speaker 1: minute people think they see him, he's gone. So the

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Speaker 1: question is, could this man, this elected district attorney, still

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Speaker 1: be alive around the country somewhere, taken on a new identity,

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Speaker 1: or he's in't the victim of a homicide or even

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Speaker 1: a suicide. Back to you, Bob buner Or, former prosecutor,

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Speaker 1: a longtime friend of Ray greek Car, I've never believed

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Speaker 1: the suicide or the living under a false name theory. Now,

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Speaker 1: Olivia and Eaton John's boyfriend. Yeah, I think he's alive

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Speaker 1: in Mexico, wearing a floppy hat and having a margarite

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Speaker 1: right now, Ray greekr. No, there's no reason he would

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Speaker 1: assume a new identity, nor would he commit suicide. You're

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Speaker 1: exactly right, Nancy. First of all, the idea that he

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Speaker 1: walked away, he could have done the rest of two

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Speaker 1: thousand and five, not shown up at the office at all,

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Speaker 1: and still collected his check. And at the end of

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Speaker 1: two thousand and five, with his retirement, he was going

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Speaker 1: to get a huge pension again never touched. The FBI

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Speaker 1: examined his finances for three years prior to when he

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Speaker 1: went missing. They can only not account for fifteen thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars over three years, or one hundred bucks a week,

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Speaker 1: and none of his bank accounts, none of his credit

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Speaker 1: cards have been touched since April fifteen, two thousand and five,

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Speaker 1: So how he would be able to do all these

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Speaker 1: things that these theorists have is really preposterous. And secondly,

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Speaker 1: with suicide. Ray was fifty nine years old, in good

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Speaker 1: physical and mental health. He had plans for retirement. We

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Speaker 1: spoke about his plans to travel the national parks with

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Speaker 1: his girlfriend Patty for Nicola. He wanted to see his

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Speaker 1: daughter Laura out in the Seattle, Washington area. This is

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Speaker 1: a guy that had a plan for his future, with

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Speaker 1: no known stressors in his life and a healthy pension

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Speaker 1: to take care of himself well. Not only was he

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Speaker 1: renowned as a prosecutor. Why would you leave your family

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Speaker 1: or commit suicide leaving them behind in the dust. Let's

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00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 1: cut forward to our cut two. Take a listen to

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00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 1: our friend Lester Holt at Dateline NBC. Often, i would

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00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 1: say three to four times a week. We were in

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00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 1: pretty regular contact. In that spring of two thousand and five,

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00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 1: Ray was fifty nine, just eight months away from retirement,

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00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 1: and he was ready for it. He was already starting

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00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 1: to cut back on his workload, already starting to cut

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00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 1: back on his workload other than the staying he was

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00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 1: planning on famed coach Jerry Sandusky. Take a listen again

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00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 1: to our cut one. This is Lester Holt. He was

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00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 1: the district attorney in Pennsylvania Center County, working in the

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00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 1: postcard pretty town of bellefont penn State is just down

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00:30:56,320 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 1: the road. It's a powerful presence in this central Pennsylvania neighborhood.

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00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 1: Back in April two thousand and five, Ray Greekar had

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00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 1: served a better part of five terms and wrecked up

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00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 1: a stellar reputation. But it's the nature of the job

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00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 1: that you do difficult things, you make difficult choices. He

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00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 1: was the most serious prosecutor I've ever met. Bob Buhner

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00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 1: was Ray's friend. He's the DA in neighboring Montour County.

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00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 1: He met Ray Greecar almost two decades ago, and over

447
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 1: the years the two traded shop talk whenever they could.

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00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 1: Did he go with his gut and he shoot from

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00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 1: the hip or was he like punch all the right

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00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 1: buttons and then get to the answer. He was the

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00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 1: guy that always had the next question, what about this?

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00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 1: Did you consider that? He was the most serious guy,

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00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 1: most ethical guy. To Lisa Daddyo for a police lieutenant

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00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 1: in Haven, PD Senior lecturer, Lisa, it has happened in

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00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 1: the past where prosecutors have been killed because of what

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00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 1: they're doing in court. It's more often that a prosecutor

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00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 1: like what happened to me, and we'll get your tire

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00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 1: slid or your windows broken in your car, maybe your

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00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 1: mailbox knocked down or your door kicked in during a

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00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 1: very heated trial. That happens. But killing a prosecutor or

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00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:19,520
Speaker 1: killing a cup an investigator, it doesn't happen a lot.

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00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 1: But it does happen. Yeah, it does happen, and you know,

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00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 1: we can't ignore it that. Oh, it's so rare, it's impossible.

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00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 1: It does happen. And so especially with the fact that

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00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 1: he was working on this incredibly high profile case. He

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00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 1: had previously worked on high profile cases, got convictions, his

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00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 1: reputation is just unbelievable that it's possible that he was

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00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 1: murdered by either somebody connected to a previous case or

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00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 1: something to do with Sandusky. Well do you think, Rebecca Night,

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00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 1: I mean, you're the one that has created this podcast,

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00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:05,360
Speaker 1: asked final argument the disappearance of District Attorney Ray Greecar.

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00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 1: What do you think. My theory is that Ray Greekar

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00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:15,480
Speaker 1: was working on building a case against Jerry Sandusky Penn

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00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 1: State University and the second mile charity and that he

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00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 1: got too close and he found out too much, and

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00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 1: he was about ready to charge because Ray Grickard didn't

477
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 1: charge cases unless he had what he called the shot

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00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 1: through the heart of the wild boar. This is what

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00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 1: I was told by one of his colleagues and tiers.

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00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 1: And another thing, a former district attorney who was a

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00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:47,480
Speaker 1: longtime friend and colleague, mister Greekar, told me that about

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00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 1: a year before Gray Greekar went missing, he and Ray

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00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 1: Grecar were having lunch in State College and after lunch

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00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 1: they went for a walk down the street and Greekar

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00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 1: pointed out a man up ahead and he said, you

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00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 1: see that guy up there, And this other gentleman said, yeah,

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00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:11,719
Speaker 1: so what he said, that's Jerry Sandusky and he said, oh, yeah,

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00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 1: the coach. He said, yeah, he's also a gd pedophile.

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00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:18,319
Speaker 1: And I'm going to put him away if it's the

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00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,880
Speaker 1: last thing I do. That was a year before he

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00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 1: went missing. And this was told to me by a

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00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:29,360
Speaker 1: seasoned prosecutor who is a new Ray Greecar for decades,

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00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 1: and we're friends. So bobbing or what about it? What

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00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:39,920
Speaker 1: do you think? I actually have a different take on things.

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00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:45,360
Speaker 1: I believe that Ray Ray Greekar had prosecuted a member

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00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:50,320
Speaker 1: of the Hells Angels chapter of Westchester County, New York,

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00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:53,800
Speaker 1: who had been in federal prison with a twenty years sentence,

498
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:58,319
Speaker 1: but after five years was miraculously released from prison and

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00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 1: ended up in a very rem part of Center County.

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00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 1: So we're clearly witnessed protection program. And this Hell's Angel

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00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 1: biker had viciously assaulted a farmer out in the rural

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00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 1: area of Center County, prosecuted him, convicted him, and I

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00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 1: believe he was the person who led the revenge. We

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00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 1: know that the US marshals in the FBI reached out

505
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 1: to Ray Greekar asking him for leniency because this Hell's

506
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 1: Angel man had done some favors for the federal government

507
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:40,359
Speaker 1: and helped convict other motorcycle bikers, and I believe that

508
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 1: that's the person who was involved in ordering the hit

509
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:48,759
Speaker 1: on Ray Greekar. If you know or think you know

510
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:55,319
Speaker 1: any information regarding the disappearance a family man and prosecutor

511
00:35:55,440 --> 00:36:00,400
Speaker 1: Ray Greekar, please call eight one four six nine six

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00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:04,919
Speaker 1: six one hundred repeat eight one four six nine six

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00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 1: six one hundred. Nancy Grace Crime Story, signing off goodbye. Friend,