1 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: Welcome to She Pivots, the podcast where we talk with 2 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:17,239 Speaker 1: women who dared to pivot out of one career and 3 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:21,640 Speaker 1: into something new and explore how their personal lives impacted 4 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 1: these decisions. I'm your host Emily Tiesh Sussman for today's episode, 5 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 1: I'm so excited to feature Gina Rosario ahead of Pride 6 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:36,480 Speaker 1: Month and on the day after the release of her 7 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:42,840 Speaker 1: debut book, Horse Barbie. Gina is a model, transactivist, producer, 8 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:46,880 Speaker 1: and now author. Her story is full of pivots. Growing 9 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 1: up in the Philippines, Gina was a trans beauty pageant 10 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:53,240 Speaker 1: star who later moved to America to pursue her dream 11 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:57,640 Speaker 1: of being legally recognized as female. Eventually, she became a 12 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 1: model in New York City, but went back into the closet. 13 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 1: Her pivot into what she calls quote freedom happened in 14 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 1: twenty fourteen on the TED Talk stage, where she decided 15 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:11,560 Speaker 1: to come out publicly as transgender. Since then, Gina has 16 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 1: been a staunch advocate for trans rights. She is doing 17 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 1: powerful work with her company Gender Proud, which highlights the 18 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:28,959 Speaker 1: stories and experiences of her community. So I saw a 19 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:31,040 Speaker 1: Ted Talk that you gave in twenty fourteen, we're going 20 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:32,959 Speaker 1: to get back to that Ted talk. But you showed 21 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:35,960 Speaker 1: this really adorable picture of yourself as a five year 22 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 1: old I think probably five in that picture, right, What 23 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:39,760 Speaker 1: did you think you were going to be when you 24 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:42,199 Speaker 1: grow up? When you think about yourself in that picture? 25 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:46,679 Speaker 2: I distinctly remembered this in school. At school that we 26 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 2: would say, oh, I want to be like, you know, 27 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 2: a fireman or a pilot. And I did say all 28 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 2: those things, right, And part of that is truth, because 29 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 2: like that's what I was expected of me by no 30 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 2: deep down that there's something so effeminatee about who I am. 31 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 2: Almost like I was having these deeper conversations inside my 32 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 2: head that I want to be a girl that I 33 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:12,360 Speaker 2: am that I felt that the world was telling me otherwise, 34 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 2: but I knew deep inside that I'm a girl, So 35 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 2: that's I wanted to be. I wanted to be a girl. 36 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 1: Gina grew up in the Philippines, and like so many 37 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:23,080 Speaker 1: of us with big aspirations, it was hard for her 38 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:25,920 Speaker 1: to imagine these far off dreams would one day become 39 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:27,040 Speaker 1: a reality for her. 40 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 2: So I lived in a very tiny neighborhood where everybody 41 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:33,359 Speaker 2: know each other. I lived in a tiny little alley 42 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 2: where I grew up. But also because I was so 43 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:39,079 Speaker 2: feminine and the way I walk, I became a target. Right, 44 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 2: So in a way, just knowing, you know that my 45 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:45,679 Speaker 2: expression about my femininity, about who I am as a 46 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 2: target has become something where people disagreed with. But also 47 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 2: because of that feminine spirit, the feminine walk to feminine 48 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 2: what we call it cambo, you know, which is like 49 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:58,520 Speaker 2: this feminine way that I do. It was almost like 50 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 2: a performance. So I knew there's some some sense of 51 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 2: that I wanted to perform growing up. I even remember 52 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 2: like I would get paid, you know, I paid meeting tips, 53 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 2: you know, by my cousins and my aunties. That as 54 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 2: long as I perform, whether it's like a hula dance 55 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:18,519 Speaker 2: or like anything like a feminine performance, you know, I 56 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 2: would almost be encouraged to do it, to do that. 57 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 2: So in a way, at that young age, I knew 58 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 2: I want to perform. I want to be at some 59 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:29,519 Speaker 2: form of performance. 60 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 1: It didn't take her long before she turned performing for 61 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 1: her aunties to performing on one of the biggest stages 62 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 1: in the Philippines. 63 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 2: I actually started joining pageants in the Philippines, Transmuter pageants 64 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 2: and I was fifteen when I started joining pageants, and 65 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 2: I did that for about two and a half years 66 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 2: of my life and became the most famous trans pageant 67 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 2: EVA in the Philippines, winning every single pageant that you 68 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 2: could think of. Yeah, and I thought that was my life. 69 00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 2: I thought, you know, because I was making money, I 70 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 2: was traveling Philippines all over. I was the best time 71 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 2: I was with my chosen family. I was the one 72 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:07,119 Speaker 2: in our community, and I thought that was the trajectory 73 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 2: of my life and I would just continue doing that. 74 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 2: But then my trans mother named Tiger Lily. She at 75 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 2: the time, we have this person in our community named Tula. 76 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:20,719 Speaker 2: She's a model. Her name is Carolyn Cosey. Her stage 77 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 2: name is Tula, and she was this famous trans model 78 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 2: in the eighties, in the early eighties, late eighties that 79 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 2: was so successful until she got outed by the media 80 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 2: by tabloids, and when she got out there, her career disappeared. 81 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 2: So my trans mother, Tiger Lily, showed me clippings of 82 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 2: her pictures a newspaper and kind of like shared with me, like, 83 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 2: look at Tula. She did this, so in a way, 84 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:49,840 Speaker 2: she inspired me to be like her. I wanted to 85 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 2: be a model. I didn't know how to, like, how 86 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 2: do you become a model? And from Philippines to New 87 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 2: York City, how are you? How am I going to 88 00:04:56,200 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 2: do that? You know, nobody in my immediate community, friends 89 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:04,160 Speaker 2: adjacent to me, has done that. So it was just 90 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:05,360 Speaker 2: this sort of like first. 91 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 1: Inclination of that dream that I wanted to do again. 92 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:12,279 Speaker 1: Ginas seemed to stop herself short of dreaming too big. 93 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 1: New York City seemed so distant at the time, and 94 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:19,559 Speaker 1: she was the darling of Filipino beauty pageants and being 95 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:22,839 Speaker 1: the star was no small feat. The Philippines is famous 96 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:24,359 Speaker 1: for their trans beauty pageants. 97 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 2: Philippines, we've had a long history of transgender beauty pageants. 98 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 2: It's actually our informal sports. I mean, it's systemic in 99 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 2: our culture. Imagine American Basketball League, right, there's different basketball 100 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:43,479 Speaker 2: leagues all over America. It's the same kind of system 101 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:46,359 Speaker 2: in the Philippines when it comes to trans pageants. Because 102 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 2: Philippines was a colony of Spain for two hundred and 103 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 2: thirty three years, Catholicism is very much, you know, our 104 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:57,559 Speaker 2: belief system. We've had a long history of trans people 105 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:01,039 Speaker 2: and gender nonconforming people as part of our society, right, 106 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:05,719 Speaker 2: trans people, pre colonial and the Philippines are the spiritual healers. 107 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:09,279 Speaker 2: We're the advisors to our you know leaders. This is 108 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 2: just part of this unique cultural amalgamation of forces of 109 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 2: our pre colonial identity, the product of colonization. We were 110 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 2: also an American colony for fifty years, so the pageant 111 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 2: was actually introduced, you know what, Americans came to the Philippines, 112 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:27,159 Speaker 2: So all of that, right, And then when I was 113 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:30,239 Speaker 2: fifteen years old, I met a woman named Tiger Lilly 114 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:34,480 Speaker 2: who saw me and met me, and she's a friend 115 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:36,719 Speaker 2: of a friend that I was introduced to her, and 116 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:39,200 Speaker 2: she was like, you know, you're joining this pageant tonight. 117 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 2: You know there's something about you. She made me try 118 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 2: on this outfit and I tried it on and she 119 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 2: liked what she saw. But I think she saw the 120 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 2: confidence in me. I joined my very first pageant when 121 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 2: I met her, and I ended up winning second runner 122 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 2: up Best in Swimsuit and Bess in Longown, and that 123 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:00,360 Speaker 2: was said for me. I was thrust in to this 124 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 2: like competition world, beauty pageant, world, and I reached the 125 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:06,560 Speaker 2: top at such a young age, and I gave it 126 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 2: my all. 127 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 1: So you were incredibly famous in the Philippines for most 128 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 1: of your teenage years. What was that like? 129 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 2: I felt good. I mean, I was a pageant diva, 130 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 2: and for two and a half years, I was living 131 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 2: that life. You know, I was traveling around the world. 132 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 2: We had followers, we had pageant fans, and this is 133 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 2: I mean. We would join pageants all over the Philippines 134 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 2: from I lived in the city in Makat in Metro Manila, 135 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 2: and we would travel to pageants in mountain areas, like 136 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 2: twelve hours on a bus next to a Riceville pageant, 137 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 2: right to a pageant, all the way up north to 138 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 2: the Philippines where there was barely anybody anybody that lives there, 139 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 2: and people would know us is the whisper and the 140 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 2: name it's like there's a new girl in town. Have 141 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 2: you seen my stage name at the time, It's called 142 00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 2: Asunta de Rossi, which is basically a celebrity that you 143 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 2: have to person. But they know me as a genus, 144 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 2: like genus coming to town. But I became so famous 145 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:09,000 Speaker 2: and also my group of my entourage that I would 146 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 2: go and I would arrive at these pageants and they 147 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 2: would protest, do not let me compete because it was 148 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 2: almost like a shoe in. 149 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 1: She dominated and had found a life in a community 150 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 1: who accepted and celebrated her. But there was always that 151 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 1: dream of New York City in the back of her mind. 152 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 2: So when I was seventeen, we were coming from a pageant, 153 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 2: we were joining a pageant. We were at the back 154 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 2: of the bus doing you know, one lane switchback in 155 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:37,440 Speaker 2: the mountain road. 156 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:37,719 Speaker 3: Right. 157 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:42,960 Speaker 2: It was four am, purple come on purple lit bus, right, 158 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 2: And I remember getting a phone call from my mom 159 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 2: and she had moved to America five years prior that, 160 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 2: you know, moved here obviously to give us a better life. 161 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:54,560 Speaker 2: Her side of the family has been here. And she 162 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:58,320 Speaker 2: called me and she said, your green card petition came through. 163 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 2: You could now move to America to be with me. 164 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:03,320 Speaker 2: And remember that as sort of like a before and 165 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 2: after moment, because I knew that two and a half 166 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 2: years of this life that I've been living, the sisterhood, 167 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 2: the trans motherhood relationship with me and Tiger Lilly and 168 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 2: my whole transpageant family is that's done. However, even at 169 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 2: that time, I didn't think I would be moving to 170 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 2: America right away because at the time the trajectory of 171 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 2: a life of a trans pageant queen. In the Philippines, 172 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 2: you normally moved to Japan because in Japan you trans 173 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 2: women who perform in pageants, they become performers and they 174 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 2: worked there, right, So I thought that was where I 175 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 2: was going to move to Japan. I was heading there. 176 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:44,560 Speaker 2: The PaperWorks are being taken care of. But then my 177 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 2: mom called me and she told me, but you know, 178 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 2: if you moved to America in California specifically, you could 179 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:56,679 Speaker 2: be legally recognized as a woman in your documents. Both 180 00:09:56,679 --> 00:09:58,560 Speaker 2: you could change her name and your gender marker and 181 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 2: your legal documents. The moment she said that that sort 182 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 2: of vision of moving to Japan was like, forget that 183 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:11,080 Speaker 2: I am moving to America, And it's in that sense 184 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:15,680 Speaker 2: where to be legally recognized in your document with my 185 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 2: name that I want that represents and that reflects who 186 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 2: I am, and the gender that reflects who I am 187 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:25,319 Speaker 2: was the ultimate dream because to this day, in the Philippines, 188 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 2: you still can't change name in gender marker and your 189 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 2: legal documents. I like to always say that in the Philippines, 190 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:36,319 Speaker 2: trans people are culturally visible, but we're not politically recognized. 191 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 2: There are no rights for trans people. We're not recognized, 192 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 2: legally recognized, you know, there are no comprehensive antidiscrimination protections. 193 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 2: But when I moved to California in America in two 194 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 2: thousand and one, it was the other way around, right, 195 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 2: it was politically recognized. I was able to change my 196 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:59,040 Speaker 2: name in gender marker, some medical legal protections at the time, 197 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:01,959 Speaker 2: obviously the context of what we have now, But there 198 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:05,840 Speaker 2: was no cultural, mainstream visibility of trans people, right, so 199 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:08,080 Speaker 2: I experienced a reverse So it was a culture shock 200 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:09,840 Speaker 2: for me. When I was seventeen to move here. 201 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 1: She moved to California to live with her mom, but 202 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:16,320 Speaker 1: with just a high school education, and after years as 203 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 1: a trans pageant star, she needed to find a job. 204 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 2: I needed to get a job because there was no 205 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:23,320 Speaker 2: transmuter pageant. 206 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 1: She eventually found a job with Macy's makeup counter. It 207 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:30,080 Speaker 1: might seem like a natural fit for Gina after her 208 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:33,800 Speaker 1: pageant days, but actually, back in the Philippines, everything was 209 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:37,319 Speaker 1: done for her, her hair, her makeup, so she needed 210 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:38,440 Speaker 1: to learn from scratch. 211 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 2: And when I started working there, almost every makeup counter 212 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 2: there's a trans Filipino working there, So in a way, 213 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 2: I found my own community of from pageants. I thought 214 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:54,320 Speaker 2: it was like pageant adjacent, so I felt like this 215 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:57,839 Speaker 2: immediate community that I found in Macy's Cosmetics. 216 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 1: While living in the US, Gina discovered the long and 217 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:04,680 Speaker 1: arduous process that it took to change her gender marker. 218 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 2: So when I moved here having a green card, I 219 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:11,319 Speaker 2: was only allowed to change my name and gender marker 220 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:14,559 Speaker 2: and my legal documents when I got here. After I 221 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:17,960 Speaker 2: applied on court the filing of change of name. 222 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:21,959 Speaker 1: But there was one catch back in the early two thousands, 223 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 1: in order to change your gender marker, you first needed 224 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: to have surgery. 225 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:29,200 Speaker 2: No, I've been thinking about surgery for I mean, this 226 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:32,360 Speaker 2: is it's my decision. You know, wanted to have that surgery. 227 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:35,320 Speaker 2: Not everybody you know wanted to have that decision. But 228 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 2: for me, I knew it was it was a part 229 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:39,680 Speaker 2: of my journey that I knew it would make me 230 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:43,359 Speaker 2: feel whole, it would make me feel connected for myself. 231 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 2: So I did that. I had a surgery, got the 232 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 2: gender marker done. I felt good. 233 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 1: I think for many people, without having read your book, 234 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:54,280 Speaker 1: and I'm sure everyone will read it after this conversation, 235 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 1: but would have maybe thought of that as your pivot point. 236 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 1: But that feels more like alignment for you. 237 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 2: Alignment word makes sense that I feel connected to that 238 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 2: because I've always known that I wanted to do that. 239 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 2: The pivot is definitely to be recognized as I am 240 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:16,839 Speaker 2: on my legal documents, on my paperwork, right, And once 241 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:19,320 Speaker 2: all of that was aligned, I was like, Okay, what 242 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 2: else can I do? Yeah? You know what else? This 243 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 2: was also two thousand and five America. You know, I 244 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 2: mean the first trans representation that I saw on national 245 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 2: television was trans women on the Jerry Springer Show. Are 246 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:38,680 Speaker 2: you gonna getting serious? 247 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 1: No? 248 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 3: I love you a lot. 249 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 1: The fact of the matter is, I'm really man. 250 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:48,800 Speaker 4: You know that's a song about Whitney Houston. 251 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 3: I'm every woman, right, Well, I'm really not. 252 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:10,920 Speaker 2: You could imagine what that was, which is shame, ridicule. 253 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:16,640 Speaker 2: You're seen as sort of it's a circus imprinted that 254 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 2: shame in me. That was the beginning of Oh, this 255 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 2: country that promised me legal recognition can't give me the 256 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 2: validation of my identity fully as I am. Right, I 257 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 2: couldn't really be myself in public as fully myself, or 258 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 2: at least definitely in the media representation that I saw 259 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 2: So that was the beginning of Oh now it's this 260 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:46,040 Speaker 2: again complicated thing of I was out and proud in 261 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 2: Asia had to go back to the closet in America 262 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 2: where for so long it was promised to me that 263 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 2: this is a country that would give me freedom, particularly 264 00:14:57,920 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 2: as a trans woman. 265 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 1: Her mother flew to Thailand, where some of the best 266 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 1: gender affirming surgeons practice. With her surgery done and paperwork filed, 267 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 1: she Ena finally got the gender marker she had dreamed 268 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 1: of since she was a child. 269 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:17,440 Speaker 2: That dream of wanting to be like Tula the way 270 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 2: that you know it was present to me, you know, 271 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 2: by my trans mother, sort of surfaced again that I wanted, 272 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 2: I really wanted to perform. I wanted to be a 273 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 2: model like Tula. So I said, okay, I'm going to 274 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 2: move to New York City. If I really wanted to 275 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 2: do this, I need to move to New York City 276 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 2: to be a model. So when I moved to New 277 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 2: York in two thousand and five as a fashion model, 278 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 2: I wanted to pursue that dream, but I had to 279 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 2: make a decision to not share my trans identity both 280 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 2: in the fashion industry and in my modeling career, and 281 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 2: anybody I work with, So I had to go stealth again. 282 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 2: You know, I didn't technically go back to the closet, 283 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 2: but some people, yeah, would say that I went back 284 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 2: to I went cells right, meaning obviously my family knew, 285 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 2: my friends, knew any immediate outside of people that I trust, 286 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 2: which is handful. In New York City, I couldn't share 287 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 2: that part of myself that in as much I recognized 288 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:17,600 Speaker 2: the degree of privilege right to be able to blend in, 289 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:21,200 Speaker 2: to be able to be as I am, and to model, 290 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:24,640 Speaker 2: it's a dual reality that I was living in, and 291 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:26,600 Speaker 2: for many, many years I did that. 292 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 1: Her story is a familiar one. Moved to New York 293 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 1: to pursue a modeling career. 294 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 2: In two tasan five, I made the decision to move 295 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 2: to New York City. I didn't know a lot of 296 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 2: people in New York, but I just thought that it 297 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 2: was a work. 298 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:45,520 Speaker 3: Another Filipino making a splash at New York Fashion Week. 299 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 3: A model and trans rites activist Gina ro Serro made 300 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:52,840 Speaker 3: headlines over the weekend, rocking the runway for American fashion 301 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 3: label Croma. 302 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 1: She moved to New York City her dream finally realized, 303 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 1: but it was mixed with complex emotions and realities. She 304 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 1: was working in a purely visual profession which she was 305 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 1: underrepresented in not only as a trans woman, but as 306 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:12,119 Speaker 1: a Filipino woman. 307 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 2: I mean we're having so, I mean, we're having this 308 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 2: constant evolution of conversation about representation now as a trans 309 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 2: Filipina sort of going through that layers of First, I 310 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:28,120 Speaker 2: can't be outed as a trans woman, forget about representation 311 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 2: of Asian models. And to be honest, like I would 312 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:36,880 Speaker 2: go to, you know, a big cosmetic advertising job, right, 313 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:40,159 Speaker 2: you would go into casting, and usually if it's a 314 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:42,720 Speaker 2: job like that, it's a cattle call. Like there's eight 315 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:45,919 Speaker 2: hundred girls from all over the world, and when you 316 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 2: identify the Asian girls working there, I just know which 317 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 2: Asian girl that they're going to choose. You know, they're 318 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:55,359 Speaker 2: going to choose at the time. You know, again this 319 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:57,960 Speaker 2: is the context of you know, what the understanding was. 320 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:00,280 Speaker 2: They're going to choose an East Asian girl. They're not 321 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:03,640 Speaker 2: going to choose a dark skin South East Asian girl. 322 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:07,639 Speaker 2: So even that, there's all these layers, right, and on 323 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 2: top of that, you know, I was managing this dual 324 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:13,040 Speaker 2: reality that I was living, you know, I have to 325 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:17,360 Speaker 2: edit myself. I have to feminize everything, even honestly, right now, 326 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:19,600 Speaker 2: as we're talking right now, I know I have this 327 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 2: level of comfort in speaking and just communicating who I 328 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:25,240 Speaker 2: am at that time, and for many many years, for 329 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 2: eight years, I have to always speak in a higher pitch, 330 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 2: like Hi, Emily, how you doing? Yes, totally right. I 331 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:36,360 Speaker 2: know it sounds so silly right now, but that's what 332 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:39,679 Speaker 2: I had to do. Call it gender dyspora, call it 333 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 2: all that, but it was a survival for me. 334 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 1: Gina's experience was fraught with tension. On one hand, it 335 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,960 Speaker 1: was tearing her apart, but on the other she felt 336 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 1: as if she was experiencing the womanhood she'd always wanted. 337 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 2: I was in the business. That's all about the power 338 00:18:56,040 --> 00:19:01,119 Speaker 2: of the imagery that in one part of myself. You know, 339 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:03,679 Speaker 2: I feel empowered, you know, because I feel validated. I 340 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:07,200 Speaker 2: could model, you know, I was doing a lot of lingerie. 341 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 2: I would being sexy castings. I would be like in 342 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 2: billboards of magazines, right But when I'm doing those jobs, 343 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 2: it's a different reality. Like the paranoid I was constantly 344 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:23,440 Speaker 2: paranoid what the camera could say. Every single trance model 345 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:26,679 Speaker 2: that came before me that have paved the way for me, 346 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 2: Women like Tula, Carolyn Cocy, Lauren Foster, Tracy African Norman. 347 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 2: You know these women that came before me, they all 348 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 2: when they got outed, their careers disappeared, and usually because 349 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:43,080 Speaker 2: of a whisper, and usually because someone said something to 350 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 2: somebody with one word, their careers gone gone forgotten, as 351 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:52,080 Speaker 2: if you didn't even exist. One moment they were considered 352 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 2: the most beautiful in catalogs, in advertising, but the moment 353 00:19:56,400 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 2: they found out they were trans? Who what for? God? 354 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,160 Speaker 2: And you know, as I'm having more and more conversation 355 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:06,000 Speaker 2: about obviously looking back at my book, there's always this 356 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:08,760 Speaker 2: through line of like, yes, I've lived this dual reality. 357 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,919 Speaker 2: Like the trans women that paved the way for me. 358 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:16,919 Speaker 2: They were both an inspiration for me right because I 359 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 2: wanted to be just like them, but they also were 360 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 2: the source of my biggest fear. This is really what 361 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:26,520 Speaker 2: I wanted to do, So I have to accept those things. 362 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:31,240 Speaker 1: What was your personal life like during that time. 363 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:34,440 Speaker 2: Getting I had friends like Erica, who I'm still dear, 364 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 2: dear friends with. And when those tight circle of friends 365 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:41,760 Speaker 2: are small, it's deep, you know, it's that kind of 366 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:48,360 Speaker 2: just also trans woman. My best friend from California named Denmark, 367 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:51,680 Speaker 2: still my best friend to this day. To have those 368 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:55,480 Speaker 2: people and Tiger Lily that I would call all the 369 00:20:55,560 --> 00:21:00,240 Speaker 2: time and communicate, so to keep those through line of 370 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:05,439 Speaker 2: safety and love and warmth, it's the most important relationship 371 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 2: that I always have to nurture because outside of that, 372 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:11,840 Speaker 2: it was tough. It was tough to go and date 373 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:16,119 Speaker 2: girl and like it was its constant negotiation of always 374 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 2: having to maneuver and edit and figure out what kind 375 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:23,720 Speaker 2: of feelings do I let go? Is the guy ready? 376 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 2: Should I tell these guys? You know, because particularly I 377 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 2: was going out partying and all that, drinking a lot, 378 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:32,720 Speaker 2: you know, I think looking back, you know, I was 379 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:34,879 Speaker 2: definitely having fun, but certainly it was my way to 380 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 2: like let me just like not take care of that 381 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:41,440 Speaker 2: because it was too it was too scary to reveal 382 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:47,800 Speaker 2: my truth to another person, to another guy, particularly, I 383 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 2: think at the time it was very important for me 384 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:55,720 Speaker 2: to keep my transfriends close because no one, no one 385 00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:59,240 Speaker 2: else could understand truly what I was going through. Even 386 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:01,719 Speaker 2: at the time, I knew that there was layers in 387 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 2: my friendship right. It was also maybe because of that, 388 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:08,200 Speaker 2: because of what I was going through of the secret 389 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:11,880 Speaker 2: that have to keep. I really need to trust people 390 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 2: that I know that has depth in who they are. 391 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:18,880 Speaker 2: I mean to be honest. I didn't even have Transmit 392 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:21,919 Speaker 2: friends at the time. I didn't, you know. I was 393 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:27,120 Speaker 2: very selective, not even like just Transform trans Filippina particularly. 394 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:30,320 Speaker 2: It's because it's a reflection of what I was going 395 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:33,880 Speaker 2: through that only them could understand. They had to protect 396 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:35,880 Speaker 2: my secret like I had the secret, but they had 397 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 2: to have a secret too. That's a good point. I 398 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:43,200 Speaker 2: was the living personification of processing my own trauma as 399 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,359 Speaker 2: I'm going through it, you know, because I was in 400 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:52,480 Speaker 2: the very, very visible industry, but I was also consciously 401 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:56,440 Speaker 2: being invisible at the same time, all at once, every day, 402 00:22:56,560 --> 00:23:00,480 Speaker 2: every second. From a moment that should been the high 403 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:03,600 Speaker 2: point of my career, I still have to be invisible. 404 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:07,399 Speaker 1: For every interview. We do extensive prep both internally and 405 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:09,919 Speaker 1: with the guest, and I wanted to share some thoughts 406 00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:12,480 Speaker 1: and perspectives we got from Gina during our prep call 407 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:15,680 Speaker 1: that I think adds to this part of her story. 408 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:18,200 Speaker 2: Moving to New York City right as a fashion model, 409 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,720 Speaker 2: which is like a very interesting pivot for me because 410 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:25,680 Speaker 2: I was so visible in Philippines. But when I moved 411 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 2: to New York. It's an interesting pivot because I was 412 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:33,440 Speaker 2: also very visible but also consciously invisible at the same time, 413 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:37,479 Speaker 2: all at once. Right, that's the beginning of that big tension, 414 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:41,560 Speaker 2: high stakes situation every day of my life. Right, and 415 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:47,040 Speaker 2: then those first inkling of potential pivot or experiences. Many things. 416 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:49,160 Speaker 2: One I could think of, you know, the moment where 417 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:52,920 Speaker 2: I was staring to test an eight their financial crisis, 418 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:55,959 Speaker 2: right when I sort of lost the modeling career. Because 419 00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:58,480 Speaker 2: I mean, this is in hide sight, it makes sense 420 00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:01,360 Speaker 2: because the first thing that disappeared a marketing budgets. Right, 421 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:05,440 Speaker 2: that was the first time for me to realize, Okay, 422 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:08,560 Speaker 2: modeling is great, you know, but I have this other interest. 423 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:12,119 Speaker 2: I wanted to become an entrepreneur. I wanted to learn 424 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:16,640 Speaker 2: about technology. And yeah, I walked in at seven World 425 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,160 Speaker 2: Trade Center with no appointment and got myself a job. 426 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:22,399 Speaker 2: I think magazine, I think those two. I mean so 427 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 2: many things I did. My going to berning Man, doing 428 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:28,920 Speaker 2: my psychedelics for the very first time at berning Man 429 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 2: was the first inclination of oh wow, there is a 430 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:34,040 Speaker 2: community that could love me and accept me. You know, 431 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:36,199 Speaker 2: those are the first seedlings of that. 432 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 1: After her transformative experience at Burning Man, everything came to 433 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:42,800 Speaker 1: a head when she got sick. 434 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:46,680 Speaker 2: But one that was really the breaking point. I got sick. 435 00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:50,720 Speaker 2: I mean I look back now, I was definitely a functioning, 436 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:53,639 Speaker 2: depressed person. When I'm by myself, it was the darkest 437 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,679 Speaker 2: moment because like, when am I ever going to be 438 00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,000 Speaker 2: allowed to be who I am? I had the ability 439 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:05,200 Speaker 2: hitting a physical manifestation of ezema from a stress of 440 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:08,400 Speaker 2: always having to figure out am I going to come out? 441 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:11,160 Speaker 2: When am I going to come out? All of those things. 442 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,200 Speaker 2: It got to the point that it was all over 443 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 2: my body. It was in my scope, like it was 444 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,720 Speaker 2: so bad. But later on I realized it was the 445 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 2: manifestation of that truth, Like the truth was literally coming 446 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:27,399 Speaker 2: out of my body. And after realizing that I was, 447 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 2: I just said that that if I'm going to risk 448 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:33,359 Speaker 2: this career, considering all the things what had happened to 449 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,679 Speaker 2: every single trans woman that came before me, that I 450 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 2: wanted to do it in the biggest stage, in the 451 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 2: biggest possible platform that I could think of. Let's just 452 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:45,600 Speaker 2: go bigger, go home and thank God A friend Cameron Sinclair, 453 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:48,119 Speaker 2: who you know knows people at TED had spoken at 454 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 2: Ted shared my story and next thing I knew, the 455 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:55,200 Speaker 2: TED curators like, we want to hear your story, and yeah. 456 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:57,960 Speaker 2: A few months later, I'm on that Ted stage giving 457 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:12,960 Speaker 2: my very first public speech. For the last nine years, 458 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 2: some of my neighbors, some of my friends' colleagues, even 459 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:22,480 Speaker 2: my agent did not know about my history. I think 460 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 2: in mystery, this is called the reveal. Today, this very 461 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 2: moment is my real coming out. I could no longer 462 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:38,800 Speaker 2: live my truth for and by myself. I want to 463 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,639 Speaker 2: do my best to help others live their truth without 464 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:51,359 Speaker 2: shame and terror. I am here exposed. I remember seeing 465 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 2: that email come true with that headline with that subject 466 00:26:56,280 --> 00:27:00,760 Speaker 2: You're invited official invitation, Ted Speaker twenty four. I was 467 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 2: losing my mind. So I can't believe this is really happening. 468 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 2: That sense of purpose was so much bigger than my fear. 469 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:10,480 Speaker 2: All of a sudden, it was almost like nobody could 470 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:11,040 Speaker 2: stop me. 471 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,520 Speaker 1: Gina had kept her secret for so many years at 472 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,119 Speaker 1: this point that leading up to her TED talk, it 473 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,480 Speaker 1: was hard for her to gauge how people would react. 474 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:21,800 Speaker 1: And actually she came out to a group that I'm 475 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 1: in with her first I remember when it happened, but 476 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:27,359 Speaker 1: I had no idea at the time that this group 477 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:29,880 Speaker 1: was the trial balloon and that her TED talk would 478 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,440 Speaker 1: go viral. After she told our small group, she left 479 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:35,960 Speaker 1: it there and still some of the closest people in 480 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:36,840 Speaker 1: her life didn't know. 481 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:41,720 Speaker 2: So in the trajectory and the excitement of doing a 482 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:44,239 Speaker 2: TED talk, I was preparing, Okay, I'm going to give 483 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:45,920 Speaker 2: a TED talk. This is the big one. I mean, 484 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 2: this is the big Ted talk. This is high stakes, 485 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:54,159 Speaker 2: a big reveal, a personal story, all of that. But 486 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:56,920 Speaker 2: in the moment of doing in preparation with all that, 487 00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:00,359 Speaker 2: I realized, I haven't told my agent that I'm out 488 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 2: on the TED stage. Oh my god. 489 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,280 Speaker 1: So I said, your agent know that you were trans. 490 00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:09,280 Speaker 2: Your agent didn't even know. I didn't even know the 491 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:11,960 Speaker 2: fashion industry, and my model agent did not know I 492 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:15,160 Speaker 2: was trans. So I figured out, how do I even 493 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 2: share this with my agent? Let me just make and 494 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:19,560 Speaker 2: pick up that phone call. And I picked up that 495 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:22,600 Speaker 2: phone call and I said, Ron, I need to tell 496 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:28,320 Speaker 2: you something. I am doing a TED talk. I'm coming out. 497 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,159 Speaker 2: And he said, oh, coming out as a lesbian. I 498 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:36,399 Speaker 2: commend you, I honor you, and good for you, Gina, 499 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 2: And I was like, oh my god, I need to 500 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:41,480 Speaker 2: say this now. Actually, Ron, I'm coming out as a 501 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 2: trans woman. And it was probably the longest three seconds 502 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 2: of my life waiting for that next word to come out. 503 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:53,240 Speaker 2: He was like, you know what, Gina, You've been a 504 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:56,640 Speaker 2: great model for us. I commend you, I honor you, 505 00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:00,880 Speaker 2: I respect you, I'm proud of you. Do it. 506 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:06,240 Speaker 1: So, when you were thinking you were planning your big 507 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:09,440 Speaker 1: coming out at the Ted Talk, you did have this 508 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,520 Speaker 1: fear that coming out would really end your modeling career. 509 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:15,479 Speaker 1: So going into it, what did you think you were 510 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 1: going to do afterwards? 511 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:22,080 Speaker 2: We all know the power and prestige and obviously what 512 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:26,080 Speaker 2: Ted talk does and the role it plays in cultural guys, 513 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:30,320 Speaker 2: So knowing the possibility of it could go viral or 514 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 2: it could be like a significant talk, my dear friend 515 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:36,680 Speaker 2: Ali Hoffman and I figure, okay, if this talk as well, like, 516 00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 2: what are we going to do? And I knew I 517 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:43,480 Speaker 2: wanted to start an advocacy campaign, and so how do 518 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 2: we harness that Ted Talk? We figured, okay, We're going 519 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:50,200 Speaker 2: to start the advocusing campaign called Gender Proud, advocating for 520 00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:55,440 Speaker 2: trends rights, particularly gender recognition policies that allow trends gender 521 00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:57,800 Speaker 2: non conforming people to change name in gender market and 522 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:01,560 Speaker 2: legal documents, and also as a storytelling platform as a 523 00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:07,200 Speaker 2: production company to humanize the stories behind statistics and policies. Right, 524 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 2: But when my TED talk came out, when it was 525 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:14,480 Speaker 2: released about a week ten days after my talk on 526 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 2: March thirty first, twenty fourteen, coincidentally in International Trends Day 527 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:25,440 Speaker 2: of Visibility, that talk went viral. So next thing I knew, 528 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:27,520 Speaker 2: you know, I was in every talk show, like I 529 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,800 Speaker 2: was invited by United Nations to speak about my story. 530 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:35,120 Speaker 2: President Obama State Department, you know, reached out, they know 531 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 2: my story. Un DP reached out, you know. But I 532 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:42,960 Speaker 2: certainly understand why, you know, because I have a global 533 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,880 Speaker 2: migration story. And I think even at the time, you know, 534 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 2: like trans conversation was very new in people's mind. So 535 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 2: I was able to do that and travel the world 536 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:56,880 Speaker 2: and advocate for trends rights. Thank you so much for coming. 537 00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 2: My name is Gina Rossero. I am the founder of 538 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:03,240 Speaker 2: Gender Press. But let me start by saying that I 539 00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:06,240 Speaker 2: am a very proud woman of trans. 540 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:10,480 Speaker 4: This dialogue on gender diversity Beyond Binaries is the first 541 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:14,520 Speaker 4: ever meeting of its kind at the United Nations Member States, 542 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:18,760 Speaker 4: un entities and activists share their thoughts and experiences on 543 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:23,400 Speaker 4: the current state of LGBTQI plus rights globally. Among the 544 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:27,600 Speaker 4: panels were two prominent transgender Pinois. Poet k Barrett talked 545 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:32,560 Speaker 4: about everyday life for real. Transgender rights advocate Gina Rossero 546 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 4: talked about the state of LGBTQI plus rights in the Philippines. 547 00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:40,680 Speaker 2: That being trends in the Philippines is culturally visible but 548 00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:44,560 Speaker 2: not politically recognized. There are still no rights for trans 549 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:46,680 Speaker 2: people to exist as we are. We can't change name 550 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,440 Speaker 2: and gender marker. There are no legal protections for discrimination. 551 00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:52,920 Speaker 4: Rossero said it was tough to hide who she really was. 552 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:58,000 Speaker 2: I'm truly grateful for this honor to be able to 553 00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 2: continue my work of increasing trends inclusion and to be 554 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:06,640 Speaker 2: on the board of the Center. I'm very proud of that. 555 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 2: Traveled to Thailand, traveled to Hong Kong, traveled to Colombia, 556 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:16,760 Speaker 2: traveled to you know, Thailand, a couple of times, to Sydney, 557 00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:21,080 Speaker 2: Australia to speak about trans rights and to advocate for this. 558 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 2: So I did that for two years. It was incredible 559 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,760 Speaker 2: it was a full circle moment. I was still modeling, 560 00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:31,360 Speaker 2: but most of my focus was this advocacy, Gender Proud 561 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:35,320 Speaker 2: and advocating and two years of doing that. It was 562 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:39,040 Speaker 2: exhausting traveling the world. But the artist in me was 563 00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:43,600 Speaker 2: also craving expression. You know, I'm a performer at heart, 564 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:46,800 Speaker 2: I'm an artist at heart, I'm a storyteller at heart. 565 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 2: I was craving the need to tell more stories. So 566 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,200 Speaker 2: I was like, let's really do this production comedy that 567 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:55,120 Speaker 2: we wanted to do. Let's start a production part of 568 00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:57,680 Speaker 2: that of Gender Proud. So and we did that and 569 00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 2: producing stories and centering story worries about trans people, trans youth, 570 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:07,200 Speaker 2: tackling issues head on, but putting narratives behind that. 571 00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:10,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, so what do you think is one thing? 572 00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:12,120 Speaker 1: And I asked this question about of my guests, But 573 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:13,040 Speaker 1: what do. 574 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:14,000 Speaker 2: You think is one thing? 575 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:16,720 Speaker 1: That at the time you felt like it was a 576 00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:19,880 Speaker 1: real low moment, and now in retrospect, you see it 577 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:23,120 Speaker 1: as having really positioned you for the successful person you 578 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:23,600 Speaker 1: are now. 579 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:26,440 Speaker 2: I would say is missed the time when I was 580 00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:28,680 Speaker 2: modeling in New York City. You know, it was a 581 00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:34,160 Speaker 2: dream to model. The deeper side of that was really traumatizing, 582 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:37,960 Speaker 2: but the craziest paranoia of having to live that was 583 00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:43,680 Speaker 2: really dark, you know, in that outer shell of magazine covers, billboards, 584 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:47,600 Speaker 2: advertising catalogs, all of that, it was great, but the 585 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:54,720 Speaker 2: deeper internal conversation was dark of having to navigate. That 586 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:57,880 Speaker 2: was a dark moment for me. And now I really 587 00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:01,040 Speaker 2: see what I went through as all of that high 588 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:06,200 Speaker 2: stakes moments of having to go through that, of projections 589 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:09,200 Speaker 2: of life, of really not knowing if there is a 590 00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:12,319 Speaker 2: tomorrow that I could get through. This was all the 591 00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:14,799 Speaker 2: things that I needed for me to get through. Even 592 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:17,120 Speaker 2: when I'm going through something right now, I would look 593 00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:19,799 Speaker 2: back in those moments say you did that, girl, You 594 00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,360 Speaker 2: could still do it. It was the spirit of horse 595 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 2: Barbie because I needed to be reminded of who I 596 00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:28,200 Speaker 2: am in the Philippines and able to get through this 597 00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:29,880 Speaker 2: difficult moment in my life. 598 00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:32,799 Speaker 1: Actually, can we go back there? How did you get 599 00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:35,040 Speaker 1: that name? Horse Barbie? Where did that come from? 600 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,160 Speaker 2: Horse Barbie is the title of the book. It's also 601 00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:41,759 Speaker 2: a spirit, I'd say, But it started when I was 602 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:45,600 Speaker 2: joining pageants in the Philippines at fifteen years old. I 603 00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:51,960 Speaker 2: became the biggest transmitter queen right away, so the competitors teased, taunt, 604 00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:55,399 Speaker 2: called me names. But one of the most hurtful things 605 00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:57,480 Speaker 2: was they called me that I look like a horse 606 00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:02,080 Speaker 2: because of my dark skin, in my long neck, my 607 00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:05,799 Speaker 2: protruding mouth, and of course it hurt. But then one 608 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:11,600 Speaker 2: day I was on stage. My pageant manager, my trans mother, 609 00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:15,480 Speaker 2: Tiger Lily, saw me the way I moved, the way 610 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,120 Speaker 2: I walked, and she said to me after I got 611 00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:19,840 Speaker 2: off that stage, and she said, you know, I was 612 00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:23,440 Speaker 2: looking at you. The way you pause, the way the 613 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:26,839 Speaker 2: way you carry yourself, the way you stand. You look 614 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:31,440 Speaker 2: like a horse Barbie. So I say, horse Barbie is 615 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:35,920 Speaker 2: also a spirit because it's that essence that she identified 616 00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:39,879 Speaker 2: when I was fifteen years old on that stage. It's 617 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:42,520 Speaker 2: that essence and then that spirit that I carried with 618 00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:46,319 Speaker 2: me as I moved to America. It's that essence and 619 00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:49,160 Speaker 2: that spirit that I carred with me as I started modeling. 620 00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:53,359 Speaker 2: Looking back to all the things that I've done and 621 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:56,840 Speaker 2: all the things that I've gone through, whether all the 622 00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:00,840 Speaker 2: little pivots in my life and the relationships and achievements 623 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:04,120 Speaker 2: and dream making all of those things, Horse Barbie is 624 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:07,440 Speaker 2: the one through line that got me through as the 625 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:10,680 Speaker 2: spirit and that as an essence, I would always be 626 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:12,920 Speaker 2: Horse Barbie. I will always be that. 627 00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:20,560 Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Bana, thank you, thank you so 628 00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:24,000 Speaker 1: much to Gina for an inspiring interview to celebrate Pride Month. 629 00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:28,040 Speaker 1: Gina's book Horse Barbie is out now and is truly 630 00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:30,520 Speaker 1: a work of art. Be sure to pick up a 631 00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:33,919 Speaker 1: copy and dive into Gina's full story. You can also 632 00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:38,239 Speaker 1: follow Gina on Instagram at Gina Rosario to stay up 633 00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:41,360 Speaker 1: to date on everything she's doing. We heard a rumor 634 00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,000 Speaker 1: that her book just might make it to the big screen. 635 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:48,560 Speaker 1: I want to take a moment here to recognize the 636 00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:51,040 Speaker 1: attack on trans writes that we are seeing across the 637 00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:54,560 Speaker 1: country right now. There are four hundred and seventy four 638 00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:58,480 Speaker 1: anti LGBTQ bills that have been introduced in states across 639 00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:03,000 Speaker 1: the country. This hetoric is dangerous. Trans Americans are four 640 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:05,960 Speaker 1: times more likely to be victims of a violent crime, 641 00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:08,880 Speaker 1: not to mention the mental toll this takes on trans 642 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,960 Speaker 1: and non binary people. I hope in hearing a story 643 00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:14,840 Speaker 1: like Gina's, we can better connect with the trans movement 644 00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:18,560 Speaker 1: and move the dial towards acceptance. If you're able to give, 645 00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:21,920 Speaker 1: please consider donating to support trans rights. We have links 646 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:28,480 Speaker 1: on our Instagram at she pivots the Podcast. Thanks for 647 00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:31,439 Speaker 1: listening to this episode of she Pivots. When I talk 648 00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:35,320 Speaker 1: with women about how their experiences and significant personal events 649 00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:39,520 Speaker 1: led to their pivot and eventually their success. Be sure 650 00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:43,160 Speaker 1: to follow us on Instagram at she pivots the Podcast 651 00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:45,680 Speaker 1: and leave a rating in comment if you enjoyed this 652 00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:48,680 Speaker 1: episode to help others learn about it. A special thank 653 00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:51,200 Speaker 1: you to our partner Marie Claire and the team that 654 00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:56,000 Speaker 1: made this episode possible. Talk to you next week. She 655 00:37:56,200 --> 00:38:00,239 Speaker 1: Pivots is hosted by me Emily Tish Sussman, produced by 656 00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:04,239 Speaker 1: Emily eda Veloshik, with sound editing and mixing from Nina 657 00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:08,600 Speaker 1: Pollock and research and planning from Christine Dickinson and Hannah Cousins. 658 00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:15,520 Speaker 1: I endorse cheap Pivots.