1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,360 Speaker 1: The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:08,240 Speaker 1: those of the podcast author or individuals participating in the podcast, 3 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: and do not represent those of iHeartMedia, Tenderfoot TV, or 4 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:16,640 Speaker 1: their employees. This podcast also contains subject matter which may 5 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:20,480 Speaker 1: not be suitable for everyone. Listener discretion is advised. 6 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 2: It must have been May or June nineteen ninety six. 7 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 2: I had been in Belgium for about a year and 8 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 2: was engaging in one of my favorite pastimes in my 9 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 2: new host country, grocery shopping in the del Hayes supermarket. 10 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:41,840 Speaker 2: Still to this day, twenty five years later, I love 11 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 2: Delaya's stores. You can always tell a lot about a 12 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:49,159 Speaker 2: country by their supermarkets, and Belgium certainly lives up to 13 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 2: its reputation as a paradise for good food and drink. 14 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 2: I was meandering through the beer ale when I heard 15 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 2: a disturbance few aisles. 16 00:00:57,000 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 1: Over, ju Yet. 17 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 3: Juet. 18 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 2: A woman was searching for. 19 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 4: Her daughter. 20 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:04,319 Speaker 5: Juette. 21 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 2: The tone of her voice ran borderline hysterical, Juliette as 22 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:10,319 Speaker 2: she ran from aisle to aisle, yelling out. 23 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 3: For her daughter, Juliette, Suette, Jaunette Dame. 24 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:21,960 Speaker 2: Other shoppers joined in and soon half of the supermarket 25 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 2: was searching for Juliette. 26 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:27,200 Speaker 6: Sauyette. 27 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:31,559 Speaker 2: We found her in the cereal aisle and her mother 28 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:34,400 Speaker 2: hugged her into an embrace as if she'd almost lost 29 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 2: Juliet forever. I remember thinking, hmmm, I guess losing your 30 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 2: kid in a supermarket is a big deal here. It 31 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 2: wasn't until I was leaving and saw the message board 32 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 2: near the exit that it hit me. Penned onto the 33 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 2: board were two slightly faded flers with the faces of Julian, Melissa, 34 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 2: and Anne and Eva, the four girls who had gone 35 00:01:56,800 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 2: missing in two separate incidences the previous summer. Next to 36 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 2: them was a brand new one. Yet another girl, twelve 37 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:10,120 Speaker 2: year old Sabindarden, had vanished in broad daylight. Five girls 38 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 2: had now gone missing without a trace. The country was 39 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 2: waking up to the frightening fact that all five disappearances 40 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 2: were strikingly similar and possibly connected. The terror I just 41 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 2: witness and Juliette's mother and the immediate action from a 42 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 2: group of strangers were testament to the fact that fear 43 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 2: was beginning to grip the country. 44 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 1: Up. 45 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 7: Psychopaths is somebody who understands emotions. 46 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:52,640 Speaker 3: And I told them it is very exceptional that somebody 47 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 3: abducts two children at the same time, so they have 48 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:59,080 Speaker 3: been the yen of it in nineteen eighty six, But 49 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 3: my god, it was just a beginning. 50 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 5: I think Belgium was a paralyzed for perverts in those days. 51 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:24,360 Speaker 2: Welcome to la monstre, I'm your host, Matt Graves. The 52 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:27,919 Speaker 2: families of Julian, Melissa, and Anne and Effia had endured 53 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:33,239 Speaker 2: a long and cold winter without any meaningful leads. Spring 54 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 2: it arrived in Belgium. But while most people were enjoying 55 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 2: the warmer weather and lengthening days, the families of these 56 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 2: missing girls were still in the dark, with little to 57 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 2: no light shed on the whereabouts or fate of their children. 58 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 2: Now yet another girl had simply vanished without a trace. 59 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 2: The latest disappearance was in a French speaking region near 60 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 2: the town of Tournay, about six month miles from the 61 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:03,560 Speaker 2: French border in the west of Belgium. It was a 62 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 2: crisp spring morning in May nineteen ninety six when twelve 63 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 2: year old Sabine Darden hopped on her bike at around 64 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 2: seven twenty five for the roughly mile and a half 65 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:20,040 Speaker 2: ride to school. She was wearing jeans, a red sweater, 66 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 2: a blue raincoat, and a small backpack. It was a 67 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:26,719 Speaker 2: swimming day, so she had her little red swimming bag 68 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 2: attached to the port baggage of her dunlop bicycle. She 69 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 2: sometimes met up with a friend who lived on the 70 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 2: route to school and then they'd ride together, But when 71 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:38,919 Speaker 2: the friend wasn't there that morning, Sabine didn't find it unusual, 72 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 2: so she rode on by herself. Riding on her own, 73 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:45,599 Speaker 2: she turned into a quiet street behind the local stadium 74 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:48,040 Speaker 2: that was still covered in shadow at that early hour. 75 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:55,599 Speaker 2: Little did she know that predators were lurking in those shadows. 76 00:04:57,160 --> 00:04:59,799 Speaker 2: She heard the rumble of a vehicle approaching from behind, 77 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,839 Speaker 2: so she instinctively swerved to the side to let it pass. 78 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:07,919 Speaker 2: When it pulled up beside her, she only had a 79 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 2: split second to see a man behind the wheel of 80 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 2: a dirty van before another man, who was perched next 81 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 2: to the open side door, swooped out and grabbed her 82 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:21,279 Speaker 2: right off of her bicycle. It all happened in a flash. 83 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 2: Sabine was ripped off of her bike and thrown into 84 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 2: the back of a van in seconds. The man who 85 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:36,599 Speaker 2: grabbed her yelled at the driver to stop. They needed 86 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 2: to get the bike and swimming bags strewn out on 87 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 2: the road. We know a lot about Sabine's experiences based 88 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:47,279 Speaker 2: on letters and a journal found where she was held 89 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 2: after being kidnapped. Before Sabine knew it, they were moving again, 90 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 2: and her aggressor was trying to force small pills into 91 00:05:56,760 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 2: her mouth. The van was filthy, with windows covered by 92 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 2: stickers and ugly brown and yellow checkered curtains. The back 93 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:09,280 Speaker 2: seats had been ripped out and replaced with a dirty mattress. 94 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:12,719 Speaker 2: Sabine's aggressor wrapped her up in a filthy blanket and 95 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:15,119 Speaker 2: held her down so she couldn't see where they were going. 96 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:18,160 Speaker 2: When she struggled and yelled, he pinned her down and 97 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:22,680 Speaker 2: covered up her mouth with his hand. His face was 98 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 2: inches from hers. His menacing black eyes were terrifying, and 99 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:31,919 Speaker 2: she realized that trying to fight back was futile. I 100 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 2: think back to my experience in the supermarket. No doubt 101 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 2: people were starting to worry about all these disappearances, but 102 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:42,719 Speaker 2: they had no idea how bad it really was. I 103 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:46,159 Speaker 2: spoke with an investigative journalist about what the atmosphere was 104 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 2: like in the mid nineties in Belgium, Douglas de cunning 105 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:53,599 Speaker 2: probably knows more about this case than anyone. He covered 106 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:55,599 Speaker 2: it from the beginning for one of the country's most 107 00:06:55,600 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 2: respected newspapers, De Morgan. Everywhere I looked to find out 108 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:04,279 Speaker 2: more about these disappearances, I constantly run into Douglas's work. 109 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 2: When I finally tracked him down, he was deep in 110 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 2: the throes of investigating what he called quote Belgium's version 111 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 2: of the George Floyd case. Needless to say, he's a 112 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 2: busy man, and I'm fortunate that he agreed to help 113 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 2: me with his project. 114 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 5: A colleague of mine, Fred van Nambussa, and all the journalists, 115 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 5: he published a book in those days. The title was 116 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 5: young Girls Don't Disappear just like that, and it was 117 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 5: a perfect way of expressing what we all felt because 118 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 5: every summer there were young girls getting killed or disappeared, right, 119 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 5: and there was a very strange indifference among the people, 120 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 5: but among the police as well. I remember several policemen 121 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 5: afterwards saying that in every police department you have a 122 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 5: murder section, you have a burglary section. He also had 123 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 5: a section that had to deal with child abduction, and 124 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 5: if you were at a child abduction section. That meant 125 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 5: that your career was really a disaster that puts them 126 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 5: the most stupid policemen there because that wasn't considered as 127 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 5: being a real form of crime. 128 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 2: So it was really something that they almost swept under 129 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 2: the rug. It sounds like when it comes to. 130 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 5: I think Belgium was a paradise for perverts in those days. 131 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:36,720 Speaker 2: I'm certainly not pointing the finger at Belgium with this project. Unfortunately, 132 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:39,560 Speaker 2: the world is full of places where children disappear without 133 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 2: proper follow up. In my home state of Texas, a 134 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 2: monster named Dean Coral abducted and murdered at least twenty 135 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 2: eight teenage boys under the noses of police in Houston. 136 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 2: Child abduction and murder is far from a Belgian problem. 137 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:59,600 Speaker 2: If anything, it's a problem that pretty reliably transcends most borders. 138 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 2: Belgium simply is an immune from it. It's unbearable to 139 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:15,079 Speaker 2: imagine the fear and confusion that must have consumed Sabine 140 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 2: Darden's mind that terrifying morning, only twelve years old. In 141 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:22,439 Speaker 2: one minute, she's riding her bike on a peaceful spring morning, 142 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 2: and the next she's wrenched into a filthy van, hurtling 143 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 2: down the highway. After bumping along what felt like a 144 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 2: country road for a while, the van pulled into a 145 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 2: smoother road and accelerated. Sabine spit out the first few pills, 146 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:42,200 Speaker 2: but the man covered her face with a moist cloth 147 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 2: that had a chemical smell that made her feel woozy, 148 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 2: and then he forced her to swallow the pills. Remember 149 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:52,960 Speaker 2: the attempted abduction in episode one. The perpetrator also purportedly 150 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 2: had a moist cloth, most likely with chloroform or another 151 00:09:56,480 --> 00:10:01,839 Speaker 2: chemical sedative. Still awake and gripped with fear, Sabine pretended 152 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 2: to be asleep as the trip continued for what felt 153 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 2: like an eternity. When the van finally stopped, the man 154 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:11,200 Speaker 2: pointed to a metal tool chest and told her to 155 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 2: get inside. After she refused, the man and the driver 156 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 2: pushed her into the chest and shut the lid. They 157 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:26,720 Speaker 2: carried her inside the chest, and a few minutes later, 158 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 2: when they opened it, she found herself inside a dingy house. 159 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 2: They took her upstairs to a room on the second 160 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 2: floor with windows covered so that she couldn't see out. 161 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 2: There were bunk beds and a dinosaur poster on the wall. 162 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 2: It felt like a child's room. One of the men 163 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 2: then chained her to the bed by her neck and 164 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:56,679 Speaker 2: left the room. Back at her hometown of Tournay, it 165 00:10:56,760 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 2: wasn't until the late afternoon, when she hadn't come home 166 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 2: from school, that Sabine's parents realized she was missing. Now 167 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 2: yet another set of parents was living through the nightmare 168 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:12,080 Speaker 2: of their child vanishing without a trace. Thanks to the 169 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:15,560 Speaker 2: tireless work of Julian Melissa and Anne and ephis families, 170 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:18,320 Speaker 2: the disappearance of Sabine wasn't just swept under the rug. 171 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 2: They wouldn't let the population or the police forget that 172 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:27,080 Speaker 2: it wasn't normal for kids to just disappear. Their posters 173 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 2: were everywhere, and they continued their relentless campaign through a 174 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 2: constant drumbeat of press appearances and even their own investigations. 175 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 2: The first journalist to have contact with Julian Melissa's family 176 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:44,040 Speaker 2: was a reporter from a major national magazine named Michelle Bouffieux. 177 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 2: Michelle currently works as a journalist at the famous French 178 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 2: magazine Paris Match. He agreed to an interview and I 179 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 2: asked him when he first had contact with the families 180 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 2: of Julian Melissa. 181 00:11:56,120 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 6: No, actually It was Julian his family who called me 182 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 6: a few weeks after the disappearances. They called me because 183 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:08,440 Speaker 6: of a book I co wrote in ninety three about 184 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:13,720 Speaker 6: human trafficking networks and pedophilia in Belgium. They wanted to 185 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 6: discuss the situation and see if I had any thoughts 186 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:22,200 Speaker 6: or hypothesis about the disappearance of their girls, and their 187 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:25,079 Speaker 6: conviction was clear from the beginning that the children were 188 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:28,840 Speaker 6: alive and that in the absence of finding them somewhere 189 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:32,600 Speaker 6: alive or dead, investigators should be urgently focused on finding them. 190 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 6: Of course, there's a big difference in urgency when looking 191 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 6: for someone alive versus looking for bodies. So we published 192 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 6: a first interview in which they expressed frustration at the 193 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:55,599 Speaker 6: total lack of information from investigators and judicial authorities. Authorities 194 00:12:55,600 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 6: wouldn't share any information at all, none. They wouldn't even 195 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 6: tell them how many investigators were working on the case. 196 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:07,719 Speaker 6: When they ask investigators questions like well, what are your 197 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 6: hypothesis at the moment, they were getting frustrating answers like 198 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 6: quote anything as possible. 199 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:19,680 Speaker 2: Two. I asked them what the parents' principal criticisms were 200 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 2: of police at the time. 201 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 7: For example, July's father, Jo Willishan said quote, we can't help, 202 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:32,680 Speaker 7: but I feel that investigators aren't up to the task 203 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 7: and that they're not the specialists in missing persons that 204 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:38,719 Speaker 7: wou'd expect to work with on a case like this. 205 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 6: And indeed, there were other things their phoned bizarre, for 206 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:48,160 Speaker 6: example that after two months of investigation, they had even 207 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 6: finished confessing the neighborhood, and it wasn't until after fifteen 208 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:55,360 Speaker 6: days that the girls went missing that they even interviewed 209 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 6: their fathers about they wereabouts. At the time of their disappearances. 210 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 6: They had the impression that the case wasn't being handled 211 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 6: correctly and with a sufficient degree of urgency. 212 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 2: I also spoke to a famous radio and television journalist 213 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:16,839 Speaker 2: at the time named Jose Dessar about his work to 214 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 2: help give parents a voice in the media. Jose's program, 215 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:24,160 Speaker 2: called Fey de Vere was somewhat like a Belgian equivalent 216 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 2: of Dateline NBC in the United States. I asked him 217 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 2: about the show on which he invited Julian Melissa's parents. 218 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:36,360 Speaker 4: City real Need. I brought together the parents and the 219 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 4: authorities who did been criticizing face to face. The parents 220 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:44,680 Speaker 4: had a sense of conviction and urgency that clashed with 221 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 4: a slowness of judicial authorities. You have to note that 222 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 4: the judge appointed to oversee the investigation left for a 223 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:57,880 Speaker 4: five week vacation a few days after being appointed, and 224 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 4: then five alternate judges juggle the case in her absence 225 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:05,440 Speaker 4: without much efficiency. And so the first reaction of the 226 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 4: parents was that the case wasn't being probably followed and 227 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 4: that there wasn't a coherent investigations. Indeed, they were interviewed 228 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 4: by local police and then federal police came and asked 229 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 4: the same questions. They realized there wasn't proper coordination between juridictions, 230 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 4: and on the show they were asking the Attorney General 231 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 4: directly to start sharing information with them. Two and a 232 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 4: half months after the disappearance, they were pleading for access 233 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 4: to the case file and direct corporation with authorities. There 234 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 4: were two moments in the debates that stuck with me. 235 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 4: The first was when Melissa's father looked at an Attorney 236 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 4: general in the eye and said, you don't want us 237 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:57,040 Speaker 4: to have access to the file, but these are our girls. 238 00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 4: They're not wards of the state. In Another moment was 239 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:04,880 Speaker 4: when Melissa's mother said, during all these discussions all of 240 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 4: this back and forth. Our girls are suffering, So there 241 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 4: was a sense of urgency from the parents in the 242 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 4: face of a sort of lackness and efficiency of the 243 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 4: judicial system. It was flagrant. 244 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 2: Meanwhile, the summer of nineteen ninety six dragged on without progress. 245 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 2: Sabine's disappearance was a complete mystery. There were no leads, sightings, 246 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:35,160 Speaker 2: or anything at all to go on. And then on 247 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 2: August ninth, another girl disappeared. It was the height of 248 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 2: summer in the beautiful Ardennes region in the south of Belgium. 249 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:48,880 Speaker 2: At that time of the year, the Ardennes was full 250 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 2: of campers, cyclists, and outdoor enthusiasts enjoying nature. In the 251 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 2: quaint village of Berthrie, fourteen year old Letitia Dalles spent 252 00:16:57,240 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 2: the day of August ninth helping her mother with clean 253 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 2: and shopping. At around seven thirty pm, Letitia and her 254 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:07,960 Speaker 2: sister walked to the local pool and playground, where they'd 255 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 2: frequently hang out with local friends on lazy summer evenings. 256 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:20,120 Speaker 2: Despite its clement weather, Belgium is at about the same 257 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 2: latitude as Winnipeg and Canada, so the sun doesn't set 258 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:28,680 Speaker 2: until around nine thirty pm. In early August, Letitia hung 259 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:31,680 Speaker 2: out with some friends until around eight forty five pm 260 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:34,680 Speaker 2: and then left for the short walk back home. She 261 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:38,399 Speaker 2: was wearing a blue and white flowered blouse and tennis shoes. 262 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:43,840 Speaker 2: When she didn't show up at home a bit later, 263 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 2: her sister and mother walked all around town looking for her. 264 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:51,119 Speaker 2: They didn't find Letitia, and they were immediately worried and 265 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:55,399 Speaker 2: went to the police. Unlike past disappearances, the police and 266 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 2: judicial system jumped into action right away. Police started interview 267 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:03,160 Speaker 2: viewing locals and Bertrie immediately to try to piece together 268 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:06,719 Speaker 2: a timeline and find witnesses of anything suspicious leading up 269 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:12,280 Speaker 2: to the disappearance. The provincial King's Prosecutor, Michel Bourlat, traveled 270 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:15,399 Speaker 2: to Bertrie in person the next morning and immediately started 271 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 2: coordinating with local and national police. Michel Bourlat is probably 272 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:23,360 Speaker 2: the most well known prosecutor in the history of Belgium. 273 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 2: If you live through these times here, you certainly know 274 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:29,640 Speaker 2: who he is and remember seeing him on television a lot. 275 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 2: Through a bit of luck and a lot of persistence, 276 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:35,880 Speaker 2: I convinced him to speak with me for this project. 277 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 2: My co producer Thomas and I traveled down to the 278 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 2: south of Belgium to meet with him at his home. 279 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:44,560 Speaker 2: It was a warm day in mid June and we 280 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:47,679 Speaker 2: settled down on his back porch, overlooking a plentiful garden 281 00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 2: backed up by rolling hills in thick pine forest. In 282 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 2: true Belgian style, he started off by offering me a 283 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 2: cold beer and got one for himself as well. It 284 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 2: was a great start to affact needing interview. 285 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:07,159 Speaker 8: It was a Saturday morning and I was here at 286 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,880 Speaker 8: home getting ready to do some gardening, and around nine 287 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 8: am the phone rang and Captain Ballar informed me that 288 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 8: a fourteen year old girl went missing the previous evening 289 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:23,760 Speaker 8: in the village of bare Tree, Abertrie Lave. The girl 290 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:26,880 Speaker 8: had left the swimming pool at nine pm and hadn't 291 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 8: come home afterwards immediate. The way from the pool to 292 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:36,200 Speaker 8: her house was about a ten to fifteen minute walk 293 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:41,120 Speaker 8: through the village and the town square. Her mother reported 294 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:45,239 Speaker 8: it to the police, who started investigating right away. They 295 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:48,440 Speaker 8: searched the route she would have taken in the area 296 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:51,760 Speaker 8: around it. They didn't find anything. 297 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 5: Sending a thief done. 298 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 8: Captain Ballar considered the disap appearance is worrying, okay, I said, 299 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 8: I'm on my way. 300 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:06,160 Speaker 5: You need to see. 301 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:09,040 Speaker 8: Bertrie is ten minutes away, so I showed up right away. 302 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:14,920 Speaker 8: Captain ball Ar explained the search they'd made, and then 303 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:16,520 Speaker 8: mister Delouz arrived. 304 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:18,960 Speaker 1: Dulouze Mister. 305 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 8: Mister Deluze is a man who had lost his daughter 306 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:23,480 Speaker 8: four years earlier. 307 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 2: Philip Dulouze was the father of a sixteen year old 308 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 2: girl named Lawrence Matthews, who disappeared and was then found 309 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:36,479 Speaker 2: dead in nineteen ninety two. When she was found, her 310 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:38,719 Speaker 2: body was identified as that of a drug addict who 311 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:41,679 Speaker 2: had gone missing, only to reappear the day before her 312 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 2: own funeral. Sadly, mister Deluze learned that the misidentified body 313 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:50,680 Speaker 2: was that of his daughter. He spent over twenty years 314 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 2: trying to identify her killer, and was even accused of 315 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,680 Speaker 2: the murder himself. He was at the scene in Bertrie 316 00:20:56,920 --> 00:21:00,640 Speaker 2: with an organization called the Mark and Korean Association dedicated 317 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 2: to finding missing children. This association was also active at 318 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 2: the time in the search for Julian, Melissa and Anne 319 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:11,120 Speaker 2: and Effia, who had recently gone missing. Mister de Luz's 320 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:13,879 Speaker 2: first reaction was that of surprise to see a king's 321 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:18,159 Speaker 2: prosecutor on site so shortly after this new disappearance. It 322 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:21,199 Speaker 2: was very uncommon for high level magistrates to roll up 323 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:23,480 Speaker 2: their sleeves and jump into action so quickly on a 324 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 2: missing person's case. But if there's one thing I learned 325 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:29,359 Speaker 2: during my meeting with Michelle Boulet is that he's anything 326 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:34,000 Speaker 2: but common. He exhibits a rare combination of humility, compassion, 327 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:42,879 Speaker 2: and the gruff determination of a steely prosecutor. King's prosecutor 328 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:43,760 Speaker 2: Michelle Boulet. 329 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:49,159 Speaker 8: Deluze had come to get a photo of Letitia as 330 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 8: part of his work with the Mark and Krinn Association, 331 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:55,240 Speaker 8: started by the parents of other missing or murdered children. 332 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 8: They were there to help authorities by printing and distributing 333 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:09,720 Speaker 8: missing children posters lap At that time, I was conscious 334 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 8: of the Julian Melissa case and all the problems the 335 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:18,159 Speaker 8: parents had had with judicial authorities. I didn't want to 336 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:22,120 Speaker 8: fall into all those shortcomings I had perceived and which 337 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:27,200 Speaker 8: Julian Melissa's parents had talked about in the media, the 338 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:33,200 Speaker 8: distrust and lack of empathy and information. So I was 339 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 8: also there to meet directly with Letitious parents. I wasn't 340 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:41,359 Speaker 8: in my ivory tower or off playing golf somewhere. I 341 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 8: was there to show them that we were concerned and 342 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:51,119 Speaker 8: that we were there to help them. In the evening, 343 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:54,639 Speaker 8: I stopped by the station again for an update. A 344 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:57,680 Speaker 8: volunteer who had come from far away said he thought 345 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:05,120 Speaker 8: he'd seen Letitia coming from Blancherie, so on my way 346 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:08,440 Speaker 8: home I made a detour to Blancherie and searched for 347 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 8: about half an hour. 348 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:14,520 Speaker 2: I'm really starting to like Michelle Bourlet. It's rare for 349 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:17,159 Speaker 2: a King's prosecutor to visit the side of a disappearance, 350 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 2: and even rarer for him to jump in his car 351 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:26,399 Speaker 2: and start searching himself. Unlike in previous disappearances, this investigation 352 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 2: got the attention it deserved. Within a day, both local 353 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:33,959 Speaker 2: and federal police were all over it. Boulet quickly enlisted 354 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:37,800 Speaker 2: an investigating judge to oversee the case. Police and local 355 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:41,200 Speaker 2: authorities were getting support from local volunteers and the Mark 356 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:45,320 Speaker 2: and Karna Association, who were printing and distributing missing Persons flyers. 357 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 2: While canvassing the area, they spoke to a nun named 358 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 2: sister Etienne, who claimed to have seen a suspicious looking 359 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:56,920 Speaker 2: van near the swimming pool on Friday evening. In her statement, 360 00:23:57,440 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 2: she said the van was parked near the pool and 361 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:02,399 Speaker 2: she noticed it because it was clunky and loud, with 362 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:06,359 Speaker 2: a bunch of stickers in the lateral rear window. Police 363 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 2: were also interviewing all family members and friends. Letitia's sister 364 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,440 Speaker 2: said that one of her friends named Virginie, thought she 365 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:16,200 Speaker 2: had seen Letitia before the disappearance with a group of 366 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 2: young people, including a girl she knew named Kathy. They 367 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 2: spoke with Visionie, who confirmed that she thought that she'd 368 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:26,440 Speaker 2: seen Kathy with Letitia that evening, but when they tracked 369 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 2: down Kathy, she said that she hadn't seen Leticia at 370 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:32,920 Speaker 2: all that evening. However, Kathy did mention that she saw 371 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,960 Speaker 2: a man that she didn't recognize enter the pool complex 372 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:39,480 Speaker 2: to use the restrooms that evening. She said her boyfriend 373 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:43,920 Speaker 2: also saw this man, so police then interviewed Kathy's boyfriend, 374 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:47,320 Speaker 2: Ben Waugh. He said he recalled seeing the man but 375 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 2: couldn't remember anything about his appearance. After thinking about it, 376 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:53,560 Speaker 2: ben wa said that he did see a beat up 377 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,640 Speaker 2: looking van that evening, parked on the sidewalk facing the pool. 378 00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:02,919 Speaker 2: It was white with stickers covering up the back lateral windows. Again, 379 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:06,360 Speaker 2: King's prosecutor, Michel Boulet Ressoir. 380 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:09,960 Speaker 8: That evening, when I went back to the station in 381 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 8: bear Tree, Major Giessar told me that they had something 382 00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:19,880 Speaker 8: new and so then he told me about sister Etienne's testimony, 383 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 8: which I knew about, and then about a new testimony. 384 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:27,399 Speaker 8: As luck would have it, the young man who had 385 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:31,240 Speaker 8: given us information on Monday, I thought he remembered part 386 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 8: of a license plate number. He gave us the make 387 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,639 Speaker 8: of the car, the model of the car, and the 388 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:39,160 Speaker 8: beginning of a license plate number. 389 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:45,639 Speaker 2: The young man Ben Wi Tino, actually remembered the make, model, 390 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:47,800 Speaker 2: and first three letters of the license plate of the 391 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:52,200 Speaker 2: van he'd seen three days prior. He said he'd memorize 392 00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:54,600 Speaker 2: the license plate because he was worried the occupants of 393 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:58,920 Speaker 2: this junkie van might steal his bicycle. As luck would 394 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 2: have it, Ben waugh all So was a car buff 395 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:04,119 Speaker 2: and he remembered that it was a Renault Traffique model. 396 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 2: It shows the importance of thoroughly following every lead and 397 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:11,720 Speaker 2: speaking to every possible witness. If you think about it, 398 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:15,359 Speaker 2: it's a coincidence that they even spoke to Benoit. Remember 399 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 2: that they interviewed him because a friend of a friend 400 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:21,720 Speaker 2: of Letitia's sister had noticed a man in the pool restrooms, 401 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:25,200 Speaker 2: and she said that Benois might also remember him, and 402 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:27,960 Speaker 2: the van came up randomly. At the end of the interview. 403 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,440 Speaker 2: Investigators perked up at Benois's description of the suspicious van 404 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 2: because it was similar to what the nun sister at 405 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:38,920 Speaker 2: Tienne had seen. A lot has happened since the start 406 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,359 Speaker 2: of this episode, so let's summarize the facts at this point. 407 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,520 Speaker 2: In May nineteen ninety six, Sabine Darden went missing near 408 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,680 Speaker 2: Tournay in the west of Belgium. There were no witnesses 409 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:55,160 Speaker 2: or clues about what happened to her. Three months later, 410 00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:58,960 Speaker 2: yet another girl, Letitia da Les, disappeared from Bertier, about 411 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,920 Speaker 2: one hundred and thirty miles east from where Sabine went missing. 412 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:08,400 Speaker 2: Investigating this latest disappearance, police uncovered an interesting tip, corroborated 413 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 2: by two separate witnesses, about a suspicious looking van spotted 414 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:15,960 Speaker 2: near where Letitia was last seen. By chance, one of 415 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 2: the witnesses who saw the van was able to recall 416 00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:21,400 Speaker 2: the make, model, and first three letters of the license plate. 417 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:26,160 Speaker 2: The first three letters of the license plate he remembered 418 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:31,000 Speaker 2: were fr R. Police quickly ran a search of all 419 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 2: Renault vehicles in Belgium with a license plate starting with 420 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 2: fr R. The query gave them seventy seven hits. Finally, 421 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:45,720 Speaker 2: police had something concrete in serious cases in Belgium, and 422 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:49,480 Speaker 2: investigating judge is brought in to carry out pre trial investigations. 423 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:54,359 Speaker 2: Boulet wasted no time in soliciting an investigating judge, Jean 424 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 2: Marc Conrad, who jumped straight into the case with Gusto. 425 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 2: It had been four days since the disappearance of Letitia Michelle. 426 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:07,200 Speaker 2: Boulet in his investigating judge Jean Mark Conrad knew the 427 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:12,240 Speaker 2: time was of the essence. They knew it was now 428 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:21,680 Speaker 2: or never. Next time on La Montre. 429 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:28,480 Speaker 8: Monsieur, the agent van Rillard ran a search in his 430 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:32,680 Speaker 8: computer and several names come back, one of which was 431 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 8: a certain to true. I asked, who's this guy? He 432 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,920 Speaker 8: was someone very interesting and had been under surveillance for 433 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 8: a year then by the Gendarmerie of Chalarroois. 434 00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:52,320 Speaker 3: If you read the report of doctor Denesse, he said, 435 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:54,560 Speaker 3: I've done in my career. He was already at the 436 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 3: end of his career at the time that he was 437 00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 3: coming to testify in court about the report that he 438 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,960 Speaker 3: made on margin, and I said, I've done about four 439 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 3: thousands of these expertises, you know, in investigations towards the 440 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 3: personality of somebody else, that I never met anybody so 441 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 3: close to one hundred percent psychopath. He says, if I 442 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:17,520 Speaker 3: have to put something or another, I think he must 443 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:20,120 Speaker 3: be about ninety seven percent right. But the strange thing 444 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 3: is that it is exactly the one thing of feelings 445 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,440 Speaker 3: that he had left that became his downfall, and that 446 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 3: is that Pride. 447 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:43,560 Speaker 2: The Monster is a production of Tenderfoot TV and iHeartRadio, 448 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:47,760 Speaker 2: hosted and executive produced by me Matt Graves, produced by 449 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:52,000 Speaker 2: Thomas Resimont. A Bubble sound, Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay 450 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,240 Speaker 2: are executive producers on the behalf of Tenderfoot TV with 451 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 2: producer Makeup and Vanity Said. Matt Frederick and Alex Williams 452 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 2: are execut kit producers on the behalf of iHeartRadio with 453 00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 2: producer Trevor Young. Original music by Jay Ragsdale, Sound design 454 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 2: by Cooper Skinner and Thomas Resimont, mixed and mastered by 455 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:16,240 Speaker 2: Cooper Skinner. Cover design by Trevor Eiler. La Monstra includes 456 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:22,480 Speaker 2: archival audio from SONYMA RTBF Archives and CNN Archives. Special 457 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:27,080 Speaker 2: thanks to back Media and marketing Station sixteen, Jean Savigna, 458 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:31,000 Speaker 2: and the teams at iHeartRadio and tenderfoot TV. Find us 459 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:35,600 Speaker 2: on social media at Monster Underscore pod. For more podcasts 460 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:40,640 Speaker 2: from iHeartRadio or Tenderfoot TV, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 461 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:42,840 Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.