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Speaker 1: What kind of a show you guys putting.

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Speaker 2: On here today?

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Speaker 1: You're not interested in art?

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Speaker 3: Now?

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Speaker 4: No, look, we're going to do this thing.

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Speaker 1: We're going to have a conversation.

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Speaker 5: Out of Robert Redford on our minds, of course, with

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Speaker 5: his recent passing and the top five Robert Redford movies

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Speaker 5: lists that we're both working on for our upcoming show.

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Speaker 5: Fair to say, All the President's Men is a lock

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Speaker 5: for that list. It's definitely not one we have to

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Speaker 5: do homework on because we recently talked about it on

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Speaker 5: the show. Just a couple of years ago. We did

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Speaker 5: in All the President's Men review as part of our

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Speaker 5: seven from seventy six Best Year Ever series.

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Speaker 2: And it happens to be one of those movies that

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Speaker 2: even for that review, I may not have needed to

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Speaker 2: rewatch it because I probably have seen it about one

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Speaker 2: hundred times, or certainly scenes from it. I love the

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Speaker 2: movie that much. But I do remember rewatching it for

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Speaker 2: that conversation, because of course I would, and like all

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Speaker 2: of those sacred cow conversations, any kind of revisit, you

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Speaker 2: see new things every time, and I remember digging into

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Speaker 2: some scenes in particular. It was a very rewarding rewatch

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Speaker 2: hopefully it was a rewarding listen then and will be now.

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Speaker 2: That seven from seventy six series was a good one.

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Speaker 2: We talked about Taxi Driver Network, Rocky. We saw a

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Speaker 2: movie that I think we both watched for the first time,

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Speaker 2: car Wash Barbara Coppoles Harlan County, USA, was one that

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Speaker 2: I had seen many times before, or at least multiple times,

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Speaker 2: but we had to include it in another new one.

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Speaker 2: Shantel Ackerman's News from Home. So a great series, and

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Speaker 2: All the President's Men was a cornerstone of it. We

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Speaker 2: hope you enjoy this conversation, and we remind you that

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Speaker 2: the Film Spotting Archive access to it is just one

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Speaker 2: of the benefits you get as a member of the

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Speaker 2: film Spotting Family. You can learn more about that at

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Speaker 2: film Spotting family dot com. From February twenty twenty one,

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Speaker 2: here is That's seven from seventy sixth review of All

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Speaker 2: the President's.

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Speaker 6: Men, Hi, Adam and Josh. This is Amy from Germantown

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Speaker 6: with a few rambling thoughts about All the President's Men.

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Speaker 6: When Merk Peltz died in two thousand and eight, and

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Speaker 6: everyone said deep Throat died, but for me, the death

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Speaker 6: of Deep throat was just last month with the passing

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Speaker 6: of Hal Holbrook. I'm always thinking of him. In that

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Speaker 6: dimly led cigarette, Smokey look tensely trying to keep Robert

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Speaker 6: Redford focus.

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Speaker 3: Si Gritty said, don concentrate on sigrette. You'll miss the overall.

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Speaker 3: The letter, the letter that destroyed the muskie candidates, the

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Speaker 3: conneclar Did that come from inside the work? You're missing

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Speaker 3: the overall?

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Speaker 4: What overall?

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Speaker 3: They were riding a musket Look who got destroyed.

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Speaker 6: It's such a great performance in a film that's jam

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Speaker 6: packed with them. Can't asked how much do I have

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Speaker 6: to know about Watergate? And I said none, because it's

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Speaker 6: not a movie about water Date. It's a movie about

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Speaker 6: journalism and grit and the grind and oh oh boy

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Speaker 6: to Woodward and Bernstein, grind, I mean the newsroom is

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Speaker 6: noisy and conversations are convoluted and truth is elusive. And

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Speaker 6: I am mesmerized by Hoffmann and Medford. I mean we

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Speaker 6: sort of accidentally trip into their story and they trip

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Speaker 6: into their partnership, and we root for them. We want

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Speaker 6: them to find something, We want them to find anything,

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Speaker 6: and we empathize as they drive and make phone calls

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Speaker 6: and call and drive. I mean they feel like they

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Speaker 6: really relive in those cluttered desks and that they're really

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Speaker 6: irritated by the noise. From that first bang of the

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Speaker 6: typewriter keys to the final drone of the teletype, you

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Speaker 6: just know you're watching something special. Thanks for letting your

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Speaker 6: ramble in.

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Speaker 2: Bye, Thank you, Amy. Josh My prompt to you about

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Speaker 2: the sixth highest Growl film with seventy six, which also

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Speaker 2: earned eight Oscar nominations, including Best Picture, winning four of them,

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Speaker 2: and did for journalism school what Top Gun would do

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Speaker 2: ten years later for naval recruits. My prompt to you

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Speaker 2: was going to be simply to challenge you to spot

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Speaker 2: the lie. Give me one part of Amy's litany of

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Speaker 2: praise that you take issue with. But I do have

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Speaker 2: one other thing on my mind. Eight months ago, we

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Speaker 2: discussed a classic movie on this show that came out

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Speaker 2: ten months prior to Alan Pocula's All the President's Men

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Speaker 2: and also garnered a Best Picture nomination, Steven Spielberg's Jaws.

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Speaker 2: The review was due to Jaws celebrating its forty fifth anniversary,

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Speaker 2: but we had no idea going in just how relevant

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Speaker 2: the killer shark movie featuring a dangerous huckster mayor and

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Speaker 2: citizens who almost literally on Fourth of July weekend, choose

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Speaker 2: liberty over the warnings of experts, would turn out to

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Speaker 2: be in June twenty twenty, in contrast, we decided to

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Speaker 2: start this seven from seventy six series with All the

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Speaker 2: President's Men precisely because of its timeliness. A movie about

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Speaker 2: the investmentgation and cover up that led to a president

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Speaker 2: resigning in disgrace seemed all too perfect to consider the

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Speaker 2: same week the Senate is about to take up an

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Speaker 2: impeachment trial. Sadly, we're also talking about All the Presidents Men.

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Speaker 2: The same week we learned of the passing of How Hulbrook,

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Speaker 2: who plays Bob Woodwards, connected contact known as Deep Throat Jaws,

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Speaker 2: one of the most well made thrillers ever, didn't seem timely,

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Speaker 2: and terrifyingly was All the President's Men couldn't be more timely? Yet,

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Speaker 2: I don't have a single comment or reflection in my

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Speaker 2: notes that could be construed as political, only comments about

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Speaker 2: the craft. What about you?

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Speaker 5: Oh well, let me fill in the gap at him. Okay, No,

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Speaker 5: I mean I'm not going to make this as political

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Speaker 5: as Jaws. Wow, was that a cathartic review that was

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Speaker 5: so much fun? I think it's because, yeah, as watching it,

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Speaker 5: All the President's Men largely takes place in a different

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Speaker 5: timeframe from where we're at right now. You know, all

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Speaker 5: the stuff we're about to get into in real life

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Speaker 5: in the next week or so comes after the movie,

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Speaker 5: after the credits roll. This is kind of the lead

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Speaker 5: up to it is what we're seeing here. And also

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Speaker 5: they're very different scandals. You know, they're very different atrocities,

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Speaker 5: let's say, committed against democracy. So I don't think there

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Speaker 5: are quite as many one to one comparisons. At the

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Speaker 5: same time, watching it, you know, you do realize in

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Speaker 5: both cases the levels of obfuscation that are at play

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Speaker 5: in something like this where you recognize that the malfeasance

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Speaker 5: starts at the very top and is directed from the

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Speaker 5: very top, but how many layers of protection there are

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Speaker 5: put in place? Maybe more so in the time of

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Speaker 5: All the President's Men. That's what they have to kind

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Speaker 5: of investigate their way through, right, is to get to

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Speaker 5: the top and maybe the you know, the maddening thing

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Speaker 5: about our current situation is that it's so clearly coming

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Speaker 5: from the top down. I mean, there is video recorded.

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Speaker 5: Anytime you say to an insurrectionist, we love you, I

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Speaker 5: think you've got your evidence. So there's a distinction there

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Speaker 5: as well. So yeah, I think this isn't quite as

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Speaker 5: one to one politically. Maybe the phrase the scene that

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Speaker 5: we started out with also has some resonance not very

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Speaker 5: bright guys at the top of the show. I mean,

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Speaker 5: anytime Adam, the remaining member of your cabinet is the

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Speaker 5: my pillow guy, I think we can also say, yeah,

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Speaker 5: not very bright guys. But sure, here's another point of

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Speaker 5: comparison between the two eras. There are very bright enablers,

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Speaker 5: and that is what is scarier than you know, clearly

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Speaker 5: scarier than my pillow. Goofball, and you see that this

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Speaker 5: is something else that Woodward and Bernstein have to investigate

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Speaker 5: their way through, implicate and prove the participation of are

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Speaker 5: the enablers, and that we've seen has also a factor

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Speaker 5: of our current situation. So yeah, I think there are

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Speaker 5: some parallels, inevitably, maybe not as strong as we thought,

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Speaker 5: probably not as strong as Jaws. It's not what I

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Speaker 5: came away from this movie with, for sure. The first

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Speaker 5: thing I came away from this revisit was just a high,

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Speaker 5: as you said, Adam, about journalism, just like a giddy

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Speaker 5: high about the craft that is that work, the work

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Speaker 5: of journalism, and the craft of all the President's men

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Speaker 5: to depict and capture it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I had that same giddy high, though less about journalism

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Speaker 2: and more about filmmaking. This is just one of those movies.

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Speaker 2: No matter how many times I see it, I recognize

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Speaker 2: how much I love deep in my bones. And it

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Speaker 2: has nothing to do with nostalgia. This isn't about when

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Speaker 2: I saw this movie or how I saw it. It's

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Speaker 2: not about my relationship really even to the subject matter.

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Speaker 2: I'm not talking about an almost famous type situation here.

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Speaker 2: For me, I am just so pleased with the storytelling,

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Speaker 2: which in this case is synonymous with the filmmaking, to

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Speaker 2: the point where I almost literally can't keep a smile

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Speaker 2: off my face, and I feel a charge because of

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Speaker 2: every choice that is being made. And I'll give one

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Speaker 2: other example real quick. You know this, I've tweeted about

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Speaker 2: it before. It just seems that once a year I'll

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Speaker 2: end up putting the Departed on a movie I really

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Speaker 2: loved and I think I had as the second best

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Speaker 2: movie of that year. But it wasn't necessarily a movie

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Speaker 2: I saw at the time and said, oh, this is,

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Speaker 2: you know, Pantheon level Scorsese. But there it is on Netflix,

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Speaker 2: and Josh, whenever I just kind of need a movie

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Speaker 2: on in the background, I just kind of want something

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Speaker 2: to distract me maybe occasionally, to take my mind off

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Speaker 2: whatever I'm working on. And inevitably with that movie, I

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Speaker 2: do get lost in it. And I had that moment

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Speaker 2: with The Departed just this past Saturday, and every time

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Speaker 2: it happens, annually Sarah will walk in the room and

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Speaker 2: she'll shake her because I look like an idiot sitting

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Speaker 2: there with a goofy grin plastered on my face and

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Speaker 2: a quick sidebar. Anybody who bemoans that movie winning Best

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Speaker 2: Picture like it was a lifetime achievement for Scorsese. Sorry,

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Speaker 2: couldn't disagree more. Nevertheless, All the President's Men, despite being

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Speaker 2: the antithesis of The Departed in so many ways, except

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Speaker 2: it is, Josh, if you think about it, a movie

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Speaker 2: as well that's about organized crime and corruption. It's obviously

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Speaker 2: the way less ostentatious and in your face, it's way more.

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Speaker 2: All the Resident Men is deliberately paced. There's no use

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Speaker 2: of music or similar use of music on the soundtrack,

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Speaker 2: but it's the exact same experience for me. I love

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Speaker 2: every single moment of the writing, of the performances, and

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Speaker 2: of the direction. And of course this is where the

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Speaker 2: filmmaking then crosses over into journalism. This is the ultimate

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Speaker 2: procedural procedural in the truest sense. This is a movie

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Speaker 2: that is just about the work, and there are so

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Speaker 2: many examples we could list. But even going back to

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Speaker 2: your political comparison, we don't really get to ever know

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Speaker 2: or really even see Richard Nixon as a character in

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Speaker 2: this movie. Right except for that very beginning, which I

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Speaker 2: had actually somehow forgotten about. I could have sworn all

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Speaker 2: the presidents meant, which I just saw in the past year.

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Speaker 2: Actually with my kids, I could have sworn it open

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Speaker 2: just with the heist, you know, the lights going on,

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Speaker 2: the cop finding the door. But we do get that

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Speaker 2: little prelude with Nixon giving the State of the Union address,

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Speaker 2: But otherwise we only get Nixon information as it relates

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Speaker 2: to the post, as it relates to this story these

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Speaker 2: journalists are following. There's no real wider philosophical conversations about

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Speaker 2: politics or the media, and if there are any conversations

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Speaker 2: that skew close to it. It's always in the context

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Speaker 2: of what the post is doing and how it affects

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Speaker 2: them and the choices they're making, and even that opening

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Speaker 2: proper the burglars just going about their work methodically. It's

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Speaker 2: all rendered very pragmatically, right. I Pakula doesn't lean into

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Speaker 2: the suspense or kind of the coolness of the heightst

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Speaker 2: like so many movies do. Here again, there's no music

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Speaker 2: underneath it to live in it up even the way

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Speaker 2: it's foiled. That security guard just doing his job just

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Speaker 2: happens to walk in the door, notices a door is unlocked,

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Speaker 2: finds it suspicious that there's some tape over it. And

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Speaker 2: I like even that the cops who ultimately arrest the

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Speaker 2: burglars don't want to do it, like they're off going

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Speaker 2: on some other job and they're playing closed detectives, but

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Speaker 2: they're closer to the Watergate and they end up doing it.

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Speaker 2: This is obvious to say, but just think about how

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Speaker 2: much of the running time of all the Presidents Men

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Speaker 2: is about doing the work of journalism, chasing leads, chasing threads,

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Speaker 2: sitting at desks, making phone call after phone call after

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Speaker 2: phone call, being in the car knocking on doors, just

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Speaker 2: relentlessly pursuing any bit of information they can and having

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Speaker 2: to secure a certain number of confirmations right before they

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Speaker 2: can run a story. There's just this process to it all,

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Speaker 2: and we'll get more into the actual craft of it

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Speaker 2: and Gordon Willis's cinematography later, I think. But the sheer

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Speaker 2: number of shots sitting at desks in the newsroom that

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Speaker 2: showcase the entire newsroom, all the buzzing in the background,

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Speaker 2: the chatter amongst reporters and editors, the phone calls, the typing,

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Speaker 2: it all reinforces it and finally, Josh, to get back

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Speaker 2: to what you were saying. In terms of the enablers,

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Speaker 2: there is obvious brilliance in William Goldman's screenplay, and somehow

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Speaker 2: it really wasn't until this time that I recognized just

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Speaker 2: how simple it is. And Sophie, my daughter, rewatched this

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Speaker 2: movie with me. She loves the movie now too, And

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Speaker 2: of course she doesn't have as much of a historical

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Speaker 2: relationship to Nixon or Watergate or this film. She doesn't

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Speaker 2: know who Haldeman is or Erlickman is, and all the

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Speaker 2: names and the different threads these reporters are chasing kind

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Speaker 2: of lose her a little bit, and I get it,

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Speaker 2: But when you really break it down, this whole movie

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Speaker 2: is just about them trying to determine the five names

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Speaker 2: who controlled the slush fund, because if they can do that,

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Speaker 2: and if one of those five names happens to work

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Speaker 2: in the White House, happen to report right to the president,

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Speaker 2: then that's it. That's that's everything. That's what breaks this

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Speaker 2: whole thing wide open, And if you really do follow

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Speaker 2: it from start to finish, that's all they're ever doing.

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Speaker 2: It's not like they're off on a bunch of different

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Speaker 2: tangents trying to take down President Nixon and all of

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Speaker 2: his corruption. They're just trying to determine how checks from

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Speaker 2: the committee to re elect the president got in the

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Speaker 2: hands of Watergate burglars, and it just so happens it

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Speaker 2: goes all the way up to the president.

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Speaker 5: Yeah. I don't think it's the movie's goal to be

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Speaker 5: able to help you trace the line all the way directly.

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Speaker 5: This is not a newspaper report. It's a dramatization of

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Speaker 5: the report, which seems obvious to say, but I think

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Speaker 5: you need to make that distinction because you could come

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Speaker 5: away from all the President's men disappointed if you didn't

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Speaker 5: have a full understanding of Watergate. I don't think it

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Speaker 5: necessarily gives you that. It gives you, as you're saying,

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Speaker 5: the broad strokes, the goals of Woodward and Bernstein, and

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Speaker 5: crucially how they went about doing their job. I mean

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Speaker 5: you could say that Goldman's screenplay kind of you know,

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Speaker 5: that last meeting with deep Throat just kind of unravels

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Speaker 5: everything for them in a way we don't really see

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Speaker 5: right that comes out in all in the montage of

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Speaker 5: the ensuing newspaper articles, so we don't see the final

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Speaker 5: threads being drawn together. Again, that's not the purpose of

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Speaker 5: the movie. So thinking of you smiling while watching this,

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Speaker 5: my exact same experience, just sitting there, started smiling very

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Speaker 5: soon into it, chuckling at moments. Here's a moment and

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Speaker 5: this goes back to how it was sort of a

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Speaker 5: journalism high for me. When Woodward is on the phone

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Speaker 5: and to my last point, I don't remember exactly who

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Speaker 5: this was, but he hears the guy say, I know

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Speaker 5: I shouldn't be telling you this.

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Speaker 2: That's it, and it's just like it's one of the

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Speaker 2: greatest moments. I love movie.

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Speaker 5: His face but also just I let out a yeah,

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Speaker 5: you know, and that is let me be clear about this, Adam.

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Speaker 5: I was never an investigative journalist, okay, but I did

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Speaker 5: do my share of real reporting at the beginning of

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Speaker 5: my career. Kind of the deal with the devil I

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Speaker 5: had to make when I went to my local town

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Speaker 5: newspaper said I want to write movie reviews. You don't

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Speaker 5: have movie reviews, don't you desperately need movie reviews? And

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Speaker 5: the editor was like, yeah, sure, kid, but you know what,

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Speaker 5: You're gonna have to go cover the local school board

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Speaker 5: for me first, then I'll let you write a movie review.

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Speaker 5: So one school board meeting, one movie review. That guy

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Speaker 5: his name was rich Parmonar. He's no longer with us,

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Speaker 5: but he was like basically the Ben Bradley of weekly

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Speaker 5: suburban newspapers. I mean he was so over school, so intense.

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Speaker 5: To him, A story about like water rates was Watergate,

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Speaker 5: I mean it was it was high stakes in his mind.

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Speaker 5: So anyway, that's kind of where I spent a year

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Speaker 5: or two doing that stuff, making the phone calls, getting

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Speaker 5: hung up on, knocking on enough doors to you know,

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Speaker 5: get exactly what you needed. And it was never in

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Speaker 5: my block, like I knew how to do that, and

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Speaker 5: I could do it. I wasn't as passionate about it

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Speaker 5: as I was about movies, obviously, but just remembering those

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Speaker 5: experiences and going on to work in larger newsrooms where

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Speaker 5: there were real reporters two deaths over and I could

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Speaker 5: hear them making those calls to bigger politicians and knowing

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Speaker 5: what was going on. It was such a thrill to

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Speaker 5: be re immersed in that. And I think a part

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Speaker 5: of it is just the fact that and here we

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Speaker 5: can move to the craft. It's so tactile, it's so

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Speaker 5: carefully observed, it's so knowing, and it's so analog. I mean,

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Speaker 5: I think it is crucial that this movie came out

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Speaker 5: and is capturing a time that was pre digital for

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Speaker 5: the most part, because it really just emphasized not that

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Speaker 5: it's necessarily quote unquote easier to do this kind of

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Speaker 5: work now, but you've got a lot more tools and

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Speaker 5: there are a lot more resources then having to go

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Speaker 5: into the you know, here's another thing that I just

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Speaker 5: chuckled that when Wood where it has to go down

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Speaker 5: to the library and pull out the phone books, the

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Speaker 5: actual phone books.

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Speaker 2: And I actually said to Sophie, have you ever actually

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Speaker 2: even used a phone book exactly?

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Speaker 5: And that was part of the work, that was part

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Speaker 5: of the job. So yeah, this is just such a

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Speaker 5: joy to watch. And speaking of the newsroom, here's where

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Speaker 5: you're right in how you describe all the President's men

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Speaker 5: as being restrained in terms of filmmaking and not flashy.

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Speaker 5: But this is a movie that uses multiple split diopter shots.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, we're going to get there, and most of.

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Speaker 5: Them are of Woodward just working on the phone. I

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Speaker 5: think there's one of him in a phone booth as well,

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Speaker 5: a payphone booth outside, but most of them are at

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Speaker 5: his desk, and then he's in focus in the foreground,

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Speaker 5: and then in the background is that newsroom in focus,

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Speaker 5: the people, the other phones, the piles of paper on

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Speaker 5: the desks. And for me, that not only provided this

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Speaker 5: tactile context I'm talking about, but it also captured the

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Speaker 5: laser focus you got to have if you're on deadline,

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Speaker 5: just absolute laser focus. There might be a bigger story

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Speaker 5: going on behind you. And I think there is a

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Speaker 5: split diapter shot where I don't remember exactly what it is,

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Speaker 5: but everyone else in the newsroom is gathered around a television.

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Speaker 5: That story at that point was probably bigger than the

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Speaker 5: one Wouldward was working on. But for him, it doesn't matter.

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Speaker 5: Your story, the one that's due in twenty minutes is

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Speaker 5: the biggest story of your life. And the split diapter

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Speaker 5: shot captures that intensity in just an amazing way that

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Speaker 5: is not flashy but so crucial.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And I know there are people out there listening right

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Speaker 2: now who probably work in newsrooms and are journalists, and

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Speaker 2: maybe they will completely contradict me on this, but it

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Speaker 2: occurs to me, Josh, that as you talk about the

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Speaker 2: analog world of all the President's men, I wonder how

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Speaker 2: different the Washington Post newsroom in nineteen seventy two and

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Speaker 2: nineteen seventy four was compared to the Washington Post newsroom now,

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Speaker 2: a world in which we're all texting all the time,

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Speaker 2: in which we're communicating even in the office when we're

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Speaker 2: a few feet from each other via Slack some other platform.

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Speaker 2: So that all ties back to me to another aspect

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Speaker 2: of the craft here, which is how sensory it is

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Speaker 2: and the use of sound. And let's go ahead and

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Speaker 2: give credit. I didn't know this until I looked it

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Speaker 2: up today. It won the Oscar for Best Sound Mixing

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Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy seven. Arthur planted do Se Dick. Alexander

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Speaker 2: less fresholts, what a remarkable job with this movie, because

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Speaker 2: all it does is just kind of hum in the background,

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Speaker 2: sometimes more noticeable than others, but it's always there, just

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Speaker 2: adding tension. You're leaning in to hear it. Those sounds

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Speaker 2: evoke the anxiety the characters are feeling. I'm thinking even

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Speaker 2: of like the sounds in the courtroom when Woodward goes

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Speaker 2: and he's bugging the guy, the lawyer, who says, it

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Speaker 2: just got really there. It's so great.

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Speaker 6: Excuse me, what is your name?

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Speaker 2: I'm Bob Woodward in the Washington Post.

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Speaker 4: Mark them, Markham, mark them. Are you hearing connection with

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Speaker 4: the Water Bay burglary?

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Speaker 6: I'm not here?

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Speaker 4: Okay, well, clearly I am here.

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Speaker 3: It only as an individual, were not as the attorney

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Speaker 3: of record.

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Speaker 7: Who is.

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Speaker 4: Mister Starkey?

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Speaker 7: Do you have any whatever you.

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Speaker 4: Want you don't have to get from him. I have

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Speaker 4: nothing more to say.

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Speaker 2: The way they shoot the moments when the judge is

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Speaker 2: talking and when the burglars come before him is from

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Speaker 2: their point of view, so we can't really hear what's

401
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Speaker 2: being said. It's not like a traditional kind of courtroom

402
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Speaker 2: movie shot. So again we just kind of hear the

403
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Speaker 2: process play out. We hear those courtroom sounds, the sounds

404
00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:56,120
Speaker 2: of the burglars going about their work. Like I mentioned earlier,

405
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Speaker 2: the slips of paper at the Library of Congress. As

406
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Speaker 2: the camera you know, elevates and we see them overhead

407
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Speaker 2: and we see how kind of diminished they are by

408
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Speaker 2: the scope of this and the work. But you hear

409
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Speaker 2: very prominently in the soundtrack every slip of paper that

410
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Speaker 2: they are going through, even in the parking garage. Not

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Speaker 2: only are you so attuned, of course to any sounds,

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Speaker 2: because you become as paranoid as deep throat and Woodward are.

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Speaker 2: There's also a great moment coming out of that Library

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Speaker 2: of Congress scene, and we could just spend the whole

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Speaker 2: review talking about moments like this, but there is as

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Speaker 2: that camera elevates up this kind of droning sound, it

417
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Speaker 2: starts to feel like the pressure is mounting a little bit.

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Speaker 2: It's kind of ominous. And then we see them emerge

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Speaker 2: from the door, I mean, they pull the cars. The

420
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Speaker 2: music stops, it cuts immediately, and it just makes you

421
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Speaker 2: feel instantly like they've emerged from some kind of hibernation, right,

422
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Speaker 2: or they've been lost to the world searching down this

423
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Speaker 2: lead and they couldn't find it, and in that moment

424
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Speaker 2: they erupt from the door. But it's it's just subtle

425
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Speaker 2: moments like that with the sound design to make this

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Speaker 2: movie so special.

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Speaker 5: That first example you gave of the courtroom, which comes

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Speaker 5: fairly early on Woodward, seeing the defendants line up and

429
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Speaker 5: not being able to hear them. That's a great journalistic

430
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Speaker 5: detail too, because he grabs his notepad, he knows he

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Speaker 5: needs this, he desperately needs this. He turns his head

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Speaker 5: to hear it, he can't. And that was another thing

433
00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:25,360
Speaker 5: that was like just such a flashback whenever you were

434
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,000
Speaker 5: there and someone was speaking and that was your one

435
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:31,520
Speaker 5: shot to get the information you needed, and it captures

436
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:35,280
Speaker 5: that desperation so well. The sound of the movie, though, Adam,

437
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:39,400
Speaker 5: the defining sound of all the President's men, the typewriters,

438
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:43,720
Speaker 5: of course, and that is, you know, just that is

439
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:47,360
Speaker 5: a suspense thing too. You almost don't need a soundtrack

440
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:52,080
Speaker 5: of music soundtrack in this film because when people are typing,

441
00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:56,680
Speaker 5: the speed with which they're typing captures all the suspense

442
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,239
Speaker 5: and the momentum that you need, and we get that

443
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:02,679
Speaker 5: so many times here, and that's a marker of the

444
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 5: eras when you were talking about what does the Post

445
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:07,080
Speaker 5: newsroom look like now compared to that, I mean, that's

446
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:11,280
Speaker 5: a key turning point is when the typewriters left the

447
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 5: room and the weekly I worked at had them. When

448
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:16,320
Speaker 5: I went to a bigger paper just a year or

449
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:20,280
Speaker 5: two later didn't have them. And it was a bigger newsroom,

450
00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:22,800
Speaker 5: but it was a quieter one. So that goes back

451
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 5: to the idea of sound design. And that's just so

452
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:27,960
Speaker 5: defining when I think of All the President's Men? Is

453
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:29,280
Speaker 5: that clacking in the background.

454
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,480
Speaker 2: So you mentioned one of these already. I think there

455
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:36,639
Speaker 2: are two, at least two just magical scenes and All

456
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,800
Speaker 2: the President's Men. One that I'm sure has been and

457
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:42,760
Speaker 2: will continue to be studied in film school and one

458
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,639
Speaker 2: that probably has been overlooked, but to me is almost

459
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 2: as brilliant, and I'll start with that one. They actually

460
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:52,320
Speaker 2: follow each other in the movie. The one that is

461
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:57,040
Speaker 2: less obvious is the editors meeting. There's two of them,

462
00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:01,320
Speaker 2: where Bradley and the other section editors are going through

463
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 2: the rundown of what articles they've got. They're deciding how

464
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:05,520
Speaker 2: they're going to lay out the paper, what the top

465
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:07,240
Speaker 2: stories are going to be. And the first one is

466
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:09,960
Speaker 2: an extended one. And there is something about it, Josh,

467
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 2: in terms of the cross talk, you know, the overlapping

468
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 2: dialogue there, the camaraderie that they have, the ease that

469
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,840
Speaker 2: the actors that the men in that scene have with

470
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 2: each other.

471
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:26,159
Speaker 1: I was having launch at the San Suit Si this

472
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 1: White House guy, a good one. A pro came up

473
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:31,159
Speaker 1: and asked, what is this Watergate compulsion with you?

474
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 5: Gompulsion?

475
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:33,480
Speaker 4: And I'm sorry this.

476
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:37,600
Speaker 1: Is I said, well, we think it's important. And he said,

477
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 1: if it's so goddamn important, now they're Woodward and Burnstack.

478
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:42,920
Speaker 1: Now what do you expect you to say from the

479
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:45,720
Speaker 1: White House? You're doing a great job. Why do you

480
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:46,680
Speaker 1: ask what he's really state?

481
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 2: I truly think it's a masterclass of performance and film directing,

482
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 2: because watching it, I feel as if they did somehow

483
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,639
Speaker 2: without trying to ape a documentary style. There's nothing about

484
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:02,080
Speaker 2: it that is suggesting it's a documentary, and yet it

485
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 2: feels to me like what it almost surely could have

486
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,479
Speaker 2: been like if they had dropped a camera back into

487
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 2: that newsroom and I don't know how you get that.

488
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 2: I don't know how you can suggest that sense of

489
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 2: a shared experience among those people without probably at minimum

490
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 2: a lot of rehearsal. Right, But even with all that rehearsal,

491
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:25,680
Speaker 2: you still got to pull it off. And it blows

492
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 2: me away every time I watch it.

493
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,639
Speaker 5: Honestly, It's got to be one of the two opposite directions, right,

494
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:33,399
Speaker 5: it's got to be just extreme rehearsal to the point

495
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 5: of them being able to do it in their sleep

496
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,400
Speaker 5: and then just going out and doing it, or it's

497
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 5: got to be like, here's what we want you guys

498
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:41,639
Speaker 5: to talk about where we need to get to in

499
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 5: this scene. Have at it and it's completely improvised. Now,

500
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 5: I think it's probably closer to the former than the latter,

501
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 5: given what we know about the film. But still, yeah,

502
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 5: it's just an astonishing example of realism. And every performance

503
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:57,640
Speaker 5: is like that, you know. I mean you could say

504
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:01,680
Speaker 5: that maybe the one perform that stands out a little

505
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,200
Speaker 5: bit to this regard is Hoffman's as Bernstein, But it's

506
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 5: hard to say that because Bernstein is supposed to be

507
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:10,000
Speaker 5: kind of a jumpy guy, right, He's it's part of

508
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 5: his character that makes him seem a little less quote

509
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:18,479
Speaker 5: unquote realistic. But Redford is so naturalistic here, just so

510
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 5: at ease in this every guy reporters skin that you

511
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 5: forget how good looking he is because he kind of

512
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:32,160
Speaker 5: he manages to to like play that down without you know,

513
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,359
Speaker 5: playing a part where he needs like makeup or to

514
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,440
Speaker 5: look slovenly or anything. He just comes across as this

515
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,119
Speaker 5: guy who wants to do his job. Part of it

516
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 5: is maybe the impatience he shows as Woodward too, that

517
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:46,200
Speaker 5: I think is like he's not trying to be a

518
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 5: dream about he has no time for chit chat when

519
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 5: he's on the phone, you know where where's Bernstein's more

520
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 5: of a cajoler. That's kind of his style is let's

521
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:55,159
Speaker 5: be friends. I'm going to get this information out of you.

522
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,440
Speaker 5: And Woodward is like, I'm going to be persistent. I'm

523
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 5: just going to keep at it, go at until I

524
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 5: get that tidbit that I need. But it is just

525
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:08,480
Speaker 5: such a naturalistic performance by Redford that I think is

526
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 5: a hallmark really of almost every other performance in the film.

527
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:15,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the other magic scene I was going to

528
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 2: talk about here is probably Redford's best showcase in the

529
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:23,200
Speaker 2: entire film. You already mention the key moment in terms

530
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 2: of him just praying to himself that the guy on

531
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:28,680
Speaker 2: the other end of the line will actually finish the

532
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,640
Speaker 2: sentence after saying I probably shouldn't say this. But it's

533
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 2: also that split diopter scene, the most noticeable one that

534
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 2: you were referencing, and you said, Josh that there's stuff

535
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 2: happening in the background that is probably more important. But

536
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 2: there's a reason why Pakula and Gordon willis give this

537
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 2: scene and that moment the attention it deserves because this

538
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 2: is where it does all converge and the story that

539
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:59,480
Speaker 2: justifies the whole movie finally take shape. So for people

540
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 2: who know and this is another case where you can

541
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 2: kind of connect Jaws to all the President's men, right

542
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 2: in terms of a famous use of a split diopter,

543
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 2: not that there aren't other many examples in cinema history,

544
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 2: but a diapter shot simply kind of gives you the

545
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 2: best of both worlds in terms of shallow focus and

546
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 2: deep focus. Instead of lighting it in a way and

547
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 2: shooting it so that you see everything that's happening in

548
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 2: the newsroom, it forces you as a viewer to still

549
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 2: stay focused on what's in the foreground. So in this case,

550
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 2: on the right side of the frame, even though it's

551
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 2: kind of at a slant, you're just looking at Redford

552
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 2: pretty much in medium close up. Everything behind him is

553
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:41,960
Speaker 2: out of focus, but everything that's to the left of

554
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 2: the frame behind Redford is in sharp focus just like

555
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 2: he is. That's because of the diopter, and people do

556
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 2: all kind of surround this TV. At one point, it's

557
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:56,960
Speaker 2: the press conference announcing that Eagleton is bowing out of

558
00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 2: the VP race. So this is the big news and

559
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 2: all of the real commotion occurs at the very moment.

560
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 2: Kenneth Dalberg answers the phone.

561
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 1: Could I please mister Dalberg. Kenneth Dalberg, Yes, this is

562
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 1: Bob Woodward of the Washington Post.

563
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,920
Speaker 2: And in terms of filmmaking, it's such a great trick

564
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 2: because it simultaneously as a viewer, distracts you, which then

565
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 2: forces you to pay further attention to what Woodward is

566
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 2: doing to experience.

567
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 5: Focus your experience in his distraction.

568
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 2: That's it. So you have to keep your focus on him.

569
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 2: You have to keep your focus on Dalberg just like

570
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 2: Woodward does. And in some ways I think it's kind

571
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 2: of a little bit of a joke on the audience,

572
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 2: because politics, of course, in America, the real issue is

573
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 2: that we're always distracted. The media is always distracted by

574
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 2: the horse race, the gas, the personal failings, and not

575
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 2: the corruption that might be actually occurring right in front

576
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 2: of your face. This whole scene actually vividly portrays that, right,

577
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 2: because everybody in the newsroom is going crazy about Eagleton

578
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 2: having to bow out this kind of scandal surrounding him,

579
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 2: but the undoing of the presidency is happening in the

580
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 2: moment Kenneth Dalberg says those words, and then the masterstroke

581
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 2: of just so subtly reducing that depth of the shot,

582
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 2: focusing inch by inch even more on Woodward until we

583
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 2: are finally on him and close up. It's a six

584
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 2: minute scene. It plays out over the course of six minutes,

585
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 2: one long take. As you suggested, Redford is so brilliant,

586
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:33,360
Speaker 2: and if the writing is brilliant, it catches you so

587
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 2: off guard, even the Dalberg line where he says, I've

588
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 2: just been through a terrible ordeal.

589
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 4: My neighbor's wife has been kidnapped.

590
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 1: Well, how do you think your check got into Barker's accounts?

591
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 2: He just keeps up keeps his eye on the prize.

592
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 2: He's not going to be distracted there. And then when

593
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 2: Dalberg hangs up and he calls Clark McGregor for a quote,

594
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 2: You've got that other great Goldman bent, which maybe came

595
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 2: from the book, where MacGregor says, I if you print that,

596
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,480
Speaker 2: our relationship will be over, and Woodward says, sir, we

597
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 2: have no relationship. There's just these lines like that that

598
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 2: really keep you on your toes and keep you laughing,

599
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 2: and you mention Redford's kind of impatience. There's an urgency

600
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 2: to it. He just keeps saying, well, what do you

601
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 2: think it could be? He's trying to keep Dalberg on

602
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:21,000
Speaker 2: the line, him talking, and it eventually does pay off.

603
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 2: And that moment when he says it, I know I

604
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 2: shouldn't be telling you this. Redford's muttering to himself and

605
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 2: closing his eyes. Just the ultimate please God moment really

606
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 2: is remarkable. And there are other subtle acting moments too.

607
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 2: When Dalberg says, stands, that's the moment that it now

608
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 2: connects to the president, and at that very moment, Redford

609
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 2: just kind of subtly looks up, you know, maybe just

610
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 2: for a second, he looked down at his notes, and

611
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,480
Speaker 2: now when he says stands, he looks up and it's

612
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 2: almost as if the camera had done a slow tilt

613
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 2: in that moment. Only Redford does it for us where

614
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 2: we go, okay, we now recognize fully the magnitude of

615
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:00,960
Speaker 2: this situation. And again that's why I think this moment

616
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 2: gets this treatment in the movie, because up to this

617
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 2: point they've come from the Library of Congress, they made

618
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 2: all these phone calls, they're hitting every dead end, they

619
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 2: don't seem to have a story. And it's only when

620
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 2: Dalberg says that that then everything comes together. So, of course,

621
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 2: from a filmmaking point of view, Pekola heightens the intensity

622
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:23,239
Speaker 2: of it and the focus of it for us as

623
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 2: viewers as well. Like I said, it's six minutes long,

624
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 2: but it's got to be one of the most effective,

625
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 2: but at the same time modest long takes in cinema,

626
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 2: because it barely even registers as a long take because

627
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 2: of all that activity in the foreground and the background,

628
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 2: the bouncing between calls, the way it draws you to

629
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 2: what is being said and the consequences of those revelations

630
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 2: is what keeps it from being about the Breva cinema

631
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 2: that it actually is.

632
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 5: There's another moment that works similarly without that level of breva,

633
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:58,959
Speaker 5: even different techniques, but it works similarly. It involves Hoffmann. Interestingly,

634
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 5: it's a red herring as opposed to this, you know

635
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 5: gold moment, and that is when Bernstein is on the

636
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 5: phone trying to get one of those confirmations. You know

637
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 5: that Bradley keeps telling them they need multiple confirmations. Bernstein

638
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 5: bristles at this, but he's doing the work. He's calling

639
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:16,799
Speaker 5: this guy on deadline needs a confirmation. The guy won't

640
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:20,720
Speaker 5: name the name, but so Bernstein lets out this this game.

641
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:24,319
Speaker 4: Look, I'm gonna count to ten. All right, if there's

642
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 4: any reason we should hold on the story, hang up

643
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 4: the phone before I get to ten. If the story's

644
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:29,759
Speaker 4: all right, you'll just be on the phone after I

645
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 4: get to ten, all right, hang up right, that's right,

646
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 4: you got it straight, all right, I'm gonna start counting, okay,

647
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 4: well all right, yeah, okay, I'm counting one.

648
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:42,759
Speaker 5: You know you're confused. That's the point. What are you

649
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:45,839
Speaker 5: trying to do here? But we think, okay, the other

650
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 5: guy understands. We're gonna find out now if this gets

651
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 5: confirmed and Bernstein starts counting to ten, and what what

652
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:55,920
Speaker 5: do we do here? No fancy camera work, no editing,

653
00:34:56,520 --> 00:35:00,200
Speaker 5: stay right on Hoffman's face as he counts from one

654
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 5: to ten. Now, you could, you know, cut away to

655
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 5: create suspense. You could cut away to something else going

656
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 5: on the newsroom and knowing that we as an audience,

657
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 5: we just want to get back to that countdown, Come

658
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:13,400
Speaker 5: on and elongate it, you know, between the counts of

659
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:15,840
Speaker 5: two and three, give us a couple of seconds of

660
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 5: some other business so that we're impatient. And when we

661
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:21,399
Speaker 5: get back, we're still on three, and we're like, come on, no,

662
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 5: that's not the choice. Nothing fancier than setting on this

663
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 5: medium shot again of Bernstein's face as he's counting, waiting

664
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 5: till we get to ten. And that's just an example

665
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:35,399
Speaker 5: of the restraint that all the presidents men also knows

666
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 5: how to employ when necessary. Kind of gear shifting here,

667
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:41,920
Speaker 5: give us different, you know, ways of feeling that tension,

668
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 5: feeling that suspense so it doesn't become overbearing or wear

669
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:49,440
Speaker 5: us out, keep us on our toes. And in this moment,

670
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 5: it's by just being very simple and straightforward.

671
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:55,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, and maybe it's because i'd seen the movie enough

672
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 2: times I did grasp. As confusing as it is the

673
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:03,360
Speaker 2: way Bernstein explains it, I was aware that if he

674
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 2: got to ten and the guy was still on the line,

675
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,879
Speaker 2: then that's good news for Bernstein. Sure what happens then.

676
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:13,439
Speaker 2: What happens then is as he's counting slowly but with

677
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:16,920
Speaker 2: some pace, you know, you're realizing the stakes.

678
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:23,840
Speaker 4: Well, all right, yep, okay, I'm counting one, two, three, four.

679
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 2: Every time he counts, he's getting closer to what he wants,

680
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:29,440
Speaker 2: right to what he wants. Yeah, right, So then that

681
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:31,719
Speaker 2: urgency builds in you as well as a viewer. I

682
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:34,440
Speaker 2: was hyper aware of that this time. And we've talked

683
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:36,759
Speaker 2: a little bit about how good Redford is here. I

684
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:39,799
Speaker 2: think Hoffman is equally good. You're right, in a very

685
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:43,719
Speaker 2: different kind of performance. There are so many good ones here.

686
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 2: But we've got to say something about Jason Robarts. Is

687
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:47,280
Speaker 2: Ben Bradley?

688
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 3: All right? Hey, what do you guys want?

689
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:53,360
Speaker 4: The GAO reports do out the morning and Nixon's renomination, Hey, shitouts,

690
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 4: Now that's two weeks from now. It's just the early

691
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 4: responsible to Congress. There is no way a White House

692
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:03,319
Speaker 4: can control the investigation. There's a source of a general

693
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:05,399
Speaker 4: accounting that tells us that there's a whole rat snut

694
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 4: civility going on over creek, like what like a slush phone,

695
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 4: hundreds of thousands of dollars of unaccounted for care, hundreds

696
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:16,759
Speaker 4: of thousands of dollars Any comment from creep, Yeah, unavailable

697
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:19,439
Speaker 4: for comment. They're not talking. But what else beside the money?

698
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:20,720
Speaker 4: Where's the goddamn story?

699
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 5: Probably my favorite performance, I mean really, I mean the

700
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 5: most enjoyable, the most enjoyable.

701
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 2: The most enjoyable. And and how about the way he introduced.

702
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:34,319
Speaker 5: Jay ratio to line to gold Lined Robards has it

703
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 5: by a mile?

704
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 2: Well, it's it's it's one to one exactly. That's why

705
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:41,719
Speaker 2: there's there is no ratio. That's how good this performance is,

706
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:44,319
Speaker 2: and how good the writing is. How about the way

707
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:47,760
Speaker 2: he's even introduced just kind of classical Hollywood filmmaking, where

708
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 2: we only hear about Ben Bradley, we only see him

709
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:55,520
Speaker 2: in his office talking to other reporters. This is where

710
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:57,759
Speaker 2: the sound comes into play, where we can't hear what

711
00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:00,200
Speaker 2: they're saying, which builds a little bit of suspense around him,

712
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:02,880
Speaker 2: a little bit of mystery. And then when he finally

713
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:07,759
Speaker 2: does come out and converse with our heroes as he

714
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 2: takes the red pen to their story. I think that's

715
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 2: the moment where we see him walk over, and it's

716
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 2: one of those great tracking shots through the newsroom. The

717
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:19,360
Speaker 2: camera is kind of just at a slight low angle,

718
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 2: which gives him a little bit more even gravitas than

719
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 2: he already has. And then that moment where he says

720
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 2: to bury it inside, and Hoffman gets so mad and

721
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:32,600
Speaker 2: Robarts just turns his head and gives him a stern look. Oh,

722
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:35,719
Speaker 2: and you see, you see Hoffman like a seven year

723
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:39,880
Speaker 2: old boy just realize what he's done and get instantly quiet.

724
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 5: Well, it's beyond one to one ratio because each look

725
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:44,840
Speaker 5: he gives in this movie is gold as well. He

726
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:47,800
Speaker 5: doesn't even a dialogue, and now he gives a couple

727
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:51,239
Speaker 5: of those stairs, those hard stairs, which is basically like,

728
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 5: this conversation has been over before you even started talking.

729
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:56,880
Speaker 5: This is what he's telling about.

730
00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,719
Speaker 2: Well, and the way the movie takes note and the

731
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 2: way we then take note as viewers of his mood

732
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:07,400
Speaker 2: and his reaction in response to things. When he says

733
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:10,640
Speaker 2: something like where's the goddamn story? You see that that's

734
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:13,759
Speaker 2: the first time we've actually seen Bradley get Matt. It's

735
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:15,799
Speaker 2: been building to that because he's been in a lot

736
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 2: of conversations that we've been part of, like those editors

737
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:22,279
Speaker 2: meetings where we know that he's starting to finally feel

738
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:26,319
Speaker 2: some heat. Woodward and Bernstein don't fully understand that, but

739
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 2: he's starting to feel it, and it comes out just

740
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 2: an expression of anger like that, the tone of his voice.

741
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:34,880
Speaker 2: You know, he's not messing around. And in those moments

742
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:37,919
Speaker 2: they cut to Woodward and Bernstein's faces and it's where

743
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:40,759
Speaker 2: they recognize that he's not messing around. Something has changed.

744
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:43,440
Speaker 2: The tenor of this has completely changed the scene at

745
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:45,399
Speaker 2: the end, the whole thing about get in the bath

746
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:48,400
Speaker 2: fifteen minutes, you screw up again, I'm going to get angry.

747
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:52,320
Speaker 2: I mean, what's better writing than that? And better delivery

748
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:54,759
Speaker 2: of lines in all of movies? And I'll give you

749
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 2: another one, even though there's probably ten more. The ken

750
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:03,799
Speaker 2: Clawsen phone call when ken Clawson realizes what he's done

751
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 2: and realizes the hole he's in and calls Ben Bradley

752
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:11,280
Speaker 2: to try to straighten it out. Yeah, and Robards plays

753
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:14,680
Speaker 2: it like he knows exactly what ken Clawson is up to.

754
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 2: He knows he's got him, he knows he can use

755
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:20,320
Speaker 2: this against him to get the information that he wants.

756
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:24,040
Speaker 2: And the smile when he says ken as he picks

757
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:28,400
Speaker 2: up the phone is just like he can't wait to

758
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 2: give Clawson a little dig and manipulate him. It is

759
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:35,239
Speaker 2: truly one of my favorite performances ever, and thankfully it

760
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 2: didn't win the Oscar for Best Supporting Actor.

761
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 1: God damn.

762
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:40,319
Speaker 4: And what is somebody gonna go on the record in

763
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:41,840
Speaker 4: his story?

764
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:43,759
Speaker 3: You guys are about to write a story that says

765
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:46,840
Speaker 3: the former Attorney General, the highest ranking law enforcement officer

766
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 3: in this country, is a crook.

767
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:53,399
Speaker 4: Just be sure you're right.

768
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:56,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, he's a thrill. We should also probably say a

769
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:59,239
Speaker 5: few words about Holbrook with his passing and you know,

770
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:01,160
Speaker 5: one of the things that jumped out at me. I

771
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:04,720
Speaker 5: mentioned this to you already, but why is he younger

772
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:07,719
Speaker 5: than I remembered? You know, I think of Holbrook as

773
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:11,319
Speaker 5: this you know, older actor with the white hair and

774
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:14,200
Speaker 5: his even his face here is just so young. That

775
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 5: jumped out at me. But also the key to this

776
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:19,960
Speaker 5: performance as deep throat is all for me in that

777
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:22,760
Speaker 5: final conversation, because what he's doing in the in the

778
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:27,320
Speaker 5: previous ones very effective, you know, in terms of leading

779
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:31,640
Speaker 5: us on and tantalizing, not giving us too much, just

780
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:33,960
Speaker 5: as he's not giving Woodword too much and playing that

781
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 5: cool but also mysterious. But it's that last conversation where

782
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:41,359
Speaker 5: he goes from this mesmerizing mystery man to a guy

783
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:42,399
Speaker 5: who's scared.

784
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:51,640
Speaker 3: Specific how high him. You're a fine enough for yourself.

785
00:41:54,200 --> 00:42:00,759
Speaker 3: I don't like newspapers, I don't care for innings, attitute

786
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:07,720
Speaker 3: and shoutow on us. It creeps slush fun that financed

787
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:10,040
Speaker 3: the red We've just about got that nailed down. I

788
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:12,920
Speaker 3: don't know how to change cabs.

789
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 5: That's when, you know, we start to realize, as Woodward does,

790
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:21,239
Speaker 5: the level of what is at stake here, not just

791
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:24,480
Speaker 5: for this story, but for the nation, for the for

792
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:29,400
Speaker 5: democracy really. And it's that little shift that Holbrook gives

793
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 5: in the performance for the final scene that is building

794
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 5: on everything he did in the previous scenes, but also

795
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 5: doing something just slightly but crucially different.

796
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:40,320
Speaker 3: Yeah.

797
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:45,520
Speaker 2: Another great supporting performance in this movie that offers similarly

798
00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 2: wonderful moments. Jane Alexander, the former secretary to Hugh Sloan,

799
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:55,040
Speaker 2: who they finally do cajole into talking to them and

800
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:57,239
Speaker 2: giving them a lot of good information. The look she

801
00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:02,080
Speaker 2: gives when her sister offers and Stein coffee, that's great, Like,

802
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:05,760
Speaker 2: what are you doing? I'm so trying to avoid every

803
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:07,720
Speaker 2: part of this, and you just asked him to stay

804
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:10,720
Speaker 2: and basically guaranteed he's gonna be here five to ten minutes.

805
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 2: And she's just so vulnerable and so scared. But she's

806
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:18,839
Speaker 2: also clearly indignant.

807
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:21,439
Speaker 7: I thought it was all legal. I mean, I guess

808
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:24,840
Speaker 7: I did until after the break in, when I remember Gordon.

809
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:25,399
Speaker 3: Got so much of it.

810
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:31,200
Speaker 7: This is mister Liddy. It's also rotten. It's getting worse.

811
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:34,800
Speaker 7: And the only one I care about is Hugh Sloan.

812
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:37,879
Speaker 7: His wife was going to leave him if he didn't

813
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:41,479
Speaker 7: stand up and do what was right, so he quit.

814
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:49,719
Speaker 4: I'm wondering if Hugh Sloan was being set up now

815
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 4: as a fall guy for John Mitchell, what do you think.

816
00:43:57,719 --> 00:43:59,879
Speaker 7: If you guys could get John Mitchell, that would be

817
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 7: you see the backbone?

818
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:05,120
Speaker 2: You see the backbone, see that immediately and so again.

819
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:09,800
Speaker 2: To balance that complexity as an actress, it is really

820
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:12,520
Speaker 2: pretty amazing. But I think this whole discussion has been

821
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 2: straight out of Wichita Kansas. So we're going to wrap

822
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 2: it up the first film in our seven from seventy

823
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:22,719
Speaker 2: six series. I don't know if we've decided what the

824
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:25,000
Speaker 2: next film is, but as we are talking about movies

825
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:27,799
Speaker 2: from nineteen seventy six, you can guarantee it will be

826
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:30,319
Speaker 2: a good one. All the President's Men is available to

827
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:33,440
Speaker 2: rent on demand on most platforms. If you agree or

828
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 2: disagree with our takes, you can email us feedback at

829
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:40,080
Speaker 2: filmspotting dot net. Josh, a Pantheon movie has now been discussed,

830
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 2: not many of them, but has been discussed in full

831
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 2: here on film spot I.

832
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:54,799
Speaker 5: Don't know, maybe we should do more Pantheon discussions.

833
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 2: That seven from seventy six series, plus eight for eighty four,

834
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 2: Josh nine from ninety nine. We talked about six from

835
00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:00,480
Speaker 2: sixty seven, didn't get to it. We may have to

836
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:03,759
Speaker 2: revive this series. Maybe we could go the other way.

837
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:05,880
Speaker 2: We don't have to keep going back in time. But

838
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 2: all of those are available in the Film Spotting Archive.

839
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:11,920
Speaker 2: You get access to that as a Film Spotting Family member.

840
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:13,560
Speaker 2: We think all of our members and if you would

841
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:15,680
Speaker 2: like to join, you can learn more about doing that

842
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:18,800
Speaker 2: at Filmspotting Family dot com. Thanks for listening.

843
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:21,960
Speaker 1: This conversation can serve no purpose anymore.

844
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 3: The fine.

845
00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:38,960
Speaker 2: Film spotting as listeners supported. Join the film Spotting Family

846
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:41,919
Speaker 2: at film spottingfamily dot com and get access to ad

847
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:45,360
Speaker 2: free episodes, monthly bonus shows, our weekly newsletter, and, for

848
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:48,080
Speaker 2: the first time, all in one place, the entire film

849
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:50,759
Speaker 2: spotting archive going back to two thousand and five. That's

850
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:55,960
Speaker 2: a film spotting Family dot com panically