1 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to bok F Daily with 2 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:18,599 Speaker 1: Meet your Girl Danielle Moody, recording from the Home Bunker, Folks, 3 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 1: I hope that you had a RESTful, restorative, joyful Memorial 4 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: Day weekend and to kind of keep that energy going 5 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 1: of what it means to take care of yourself and 6 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:37,479 Speaker 1: have self care. On today's show, we welcome doctor Deborah 7 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:41,920 Speaker 1: Vanall and doctor Deborah Vanall and I get into a 8 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 1: conversation about the importance of mental health and the importance 9 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:53,600 Speaker 1: of taking care of yourself, and in that conversation we 10 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:57,960 Speaker 1: also talk about the way in which the Republican Party 11 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 1: has been instituting the psychological term, which if you've been 12 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:05,120 Speaker 1: listening to this show, you've heard me say my god, 13 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 1: I don't know how many times, not nearly as many 14 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 1: times as Ron De Santis says the word woke. But 15 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:14,199 Speaker 1: you've heard me talk about gaslighting. You've heard me talk 16 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 1: about paying attention to gaslighting. And it was journalist Masha 17 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 1: Gessen who wrote the Ten Ways to Pay Attention to 18 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 1: an Autocrat, and part of that was gaslighting. Doctor Debra 19 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 1: Vinal's book gas Lighting, A Step by Step Recovery Guide 20 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:34,839 Speaker 1: to Heal from emotional abuse and a build a healthy 21 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 1: relationships is a really important read because I think that 22 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 1: often we are not addressing the ways in which we 23 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 1: have collectively been traumatized by the Republican Party, by magaism, 24 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 1: by COVID, and all of the things that we have 25 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 1: been dealing with over the past seven to eight years. 26 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: We've just been pushing through because capitalism, because we got 27 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 1: to work, and we got to go to school, and 28 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 1: we got to keep you know, the wheels of the 29 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 1: grind turning away, and we're not taking time to really 30 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:16,079 Speaker 1: pause and reflect on the ways in which our lives 31 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 1: have completely and totally changed. And you know, in this 32 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:25,519 Speaker 1: conversation with doctor Vanal, I talk about how it's unnerving 33 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 1: for me sometimes to kind of I get into these 34 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:32,920 Speaker 1: moments where, you know, I realize are like I come 35 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 1: into a draw and I see like a bunch of 36 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 1: max mass or I, you know, am walking on the 37 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 1: street and I see like a discarded mask. And I 38 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 1: think about the fact that we don't discuss that over 39 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 1: a million Americans died from COVID. We don't have a 40 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 1: day to memorialize those that we've lost, those that continue 41 00:02:55,800 --> 00:03:00,799 Speaker 1: to still suffer from long COVID. It's just like one 42 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:07,799 Speaker 1: day we were talking about this traumatic, horrendous global pandemic 43 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 1: on a day to day, moment to moment basis, and 44 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:13,920 Speaker 1: then poof, you know, we were told that it was 45 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: time to move on. And I think that that in 46 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:20,359 Speaker 1: and of itself is also a form of abuse, because 47 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 1: it doesn't allow us to really sit in and work 48 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:27,440 Speaker 1: through the numerous ways in which our lives, our work, 49 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 1: the way that we build community, the way that we 50 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:34,080 Speaker 1: have lost relationships built new relationships, that all of that 51 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 1: had changed in the blink of an eye and is 52 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 1: forever changed, and where we are right now is adapting 53 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:41,320 Speaker 1: to a new normal. 54 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 2: Right. 55 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 1: So I really enjoyed this conversation with doctor Deborah vinal 56 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: and another book that she has for those of you 57 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 1: who have children or our teachers. Her other book is 58 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 1: entitled Trauma Recovery Work Book Book for Teens, And again 59 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 1: I think that we are not really talking about the 60 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 1: ways in which children's lives their progression has been disrupted 61 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 1: over the past several years, and the impact of that disruption. 62 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 1: So both of these books, Doctor Vanilla and I get 63 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:26,040 Speaker 1: into and talk about this and so much more on 64 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:33,159 Speaker 1: this episode of woke app folks. I am very happy 65 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:36,479 Speaker 1: to welcome to woke F Daily for the first time, 66 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 1: doctor Deborah Vinal, a mental health professional, to discuss the 67 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:44,840 Speaker 1: connections between mental health and our increasingly politicized world and 68 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 1: social media. Her book Gaslighting, a Step by Step Recovery 69 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:53,919 Speaker 1: Guide and Trauma Recovery Workbook for Teens are pretty timely 70 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: for the moments that we are living in. Doctor Deborah Vinal, 71 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:02,480 Speaker 1: thank you so much for making the time for WOKEKF. 72 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:05,840 Speaker 1: I want to start with your book on gas lighting. 73 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 1: Why did you think that it was a good time 74 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:17,280 Speaker 1: for this for this book? And when people understand gaslighting, 75 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:20,800 Speaker 1: I think they reference movies and they reference, you know, 76 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:24,479 Speaker 1: television shows that exhibit the behavior. But I would love 77 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 1: for you to give a formalized definition for people on 78 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 1: what gas lighting is and what you mean by it 79 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:33,159 Speaker 1: as you explain it in your book. 80 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 2: Sure. Yeah, there's a couple of things to unpack there. 81 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 2: You know, the term did actually come out of the 82 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 2: movie that was put out in the forties where it 83 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:48,280 Speaker 2: was about lighting gas lights to make the husband who 84 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:50,599 Speaker 2: was trying to make the wife feel crazy so that 85 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 2: he could get her out of the house and into 86 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 2: an asylum so he could access her wealth that was 87 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 2: in the house, and she was dimming the lights in 88 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:00,479 Speaker 2: the house and denying that there was anything that she 89 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:02,279 Speaker 2: was perceiving was real. And so that's what was the 90 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 2: gaslight effect. And from that our modern term gaslighting comes. 91 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:09,480 Speaker 2: But it really wasn't spoken about that often until really 92 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 2: recent years. And when you ask why, now, what really 93 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 2: happened in twenty sixteen with the election of that former president. 94 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 2: Trying to a lot of people who were victims of 95 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 2: abusive relationships and domestic violence started saying, I feel so 96 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 2: triggered in the true clinical sense, and they couldn't quite 97 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 2: put their finger on why, Like why is a president 98 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 2: who never probably have contact with often like even you know, 99 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 2: really privileged people who were specifically in danger of having 100 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 2: their rights taken away, felt really really triggered? What was 101 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:49,840 Speaker 2: that about? As well as people who were And I 102 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 2: think what people are picking up on is that what 103 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 2: he was doing was gaslighting the nation all at once, 104 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:58,599 Speaker 2: and there it felt too familiar. It brought something up, 105 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 2: so we saw it from probably before. But I in 106 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 2: my mind, the thing that really stands out as a 107 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 2: inauguration day where he said, oh, I had it was 108 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 2: crowd ever, and I felt chilled to my bones because 109 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 2: I remember, you know, a decade prior, thinking about how 110 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 2: in North Korea, he you know, the King Jump We 111 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:22,520 Speaker 2: put out these these newspapers to his country that had 112 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 2: such an insular nation where they don't they don't hear 113 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 2: what all we hear. And he would say things as 114 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 2: wild as you know, the flowers are growing to honor 115 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 2: King Jong, you know, like the United States is so 116 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 2: poor and they're just destitute, and all these things were 117 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 2: in their news on the daily, but it's all they got. 118 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 2: And I thought, oh my gosh, we're that nation. Now 119 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 2: we're being fed lies. And that was just the first one, 120 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 2: and it became I used this phrase in my book 121 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 2: of Firehose of lies, you know where it starts with 122 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 2: one and you're like, whoa, that's not cool. Our president 123 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 2: is totally lying to us. And it's so verifiably obvious 124 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 2: because we would see the photos that were taken by 125 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 2: all of the news outlets of this empty lawn where 126 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 2: people were not coming out to watch him be inaugurated, 127 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 2: and he's saying, it's the biggest crowd. And so that's 128 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 2: what gaslighting is. It's that contradiction between what you can 129 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 2: proceed with your five senses and being told that, no, 130 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 2: you cannot trust your very own senses, so you're separated 131 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 2: from your actual sense of self, your own intuition, which 132 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 2: is really a very core thing. And so when he 133 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 2: you know, and that was just the beginning. You know, 134 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 2: we've heard like what there was what ten thousand lies 135 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:36,840 Speaker 2: in the first year that were verifiable? Yours are what 136 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 2: thousands a day? Just mind blowing And that's not just 137 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 2: to count for exaggerations as well, but like concrete, specific, 138 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 2: black and white lies. 139 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 1: I thought that what was so telling, aside from inauguration, 140 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 1: which is so like even it feels so far away 141 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:57,080 Speaker 1: to think, you know, to think back to that time, 142 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:00,440 Speaker 1: because so much, so many lies, so many things have 143 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 1: transpired since his inauguration in twenty seventeen, And I think 144 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 1: about the birth of alternative facts, and I think about 145 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 1: now how traditional media has run with this both sides 146 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 1: narrative that gives air to alternative facts, which to me, 147 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:23,840 Speaker 1: and doctor you tell me, is the idea of alternative 148 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 1: facts an extension of gas lighting. 149 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:29,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, in some ways for sure. I talk about one 150 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 2: of you know, the gaslighter's playbook in my book, and 151 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:34,960 Speaker 2: one of the things they do is they gather flying 152 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:37,960 Speaker 2: monkeys around them, these enablers that back up their lines 153 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 2: and carry out their dirty work. In some ways, it 154 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 2: feels that he has brought in the even the media 155 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 2: especially you know those news Max and Fox News and 156 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 2: places like that, in a way, but he's brought these 157 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:50,960 Speaker 2: ones in to back him up and to say, yes, 158 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 2: the sky is absolutely purple, you know. And that's so 159 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 2: we're getting gas lit by the gas lighter he was 160 00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:01,200 Speaker 2: in chief, not now, thank god, but by this whole 161 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 2: system that for money, for influence, for whatever reasons that 162 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:10,080 Speaker 2: they want to gain access to this person with a 163 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 2: lot of power and influence, are willing to continue the 164 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:16,320 Speaker 2: gaslight effect to the rest of US society. And that 165 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 2: is absolutely a very classic gaslighting maneuver. 166 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 1: Can you speak to how our collective understanding of political 167 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 1: norms societal norms has been transformed over the last eight years. 168 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:43,200 Speaker 1: We can look at, yes, the former president and the 169 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 1: Republican Party and this very cult like behavior, and then 170 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 1: we can look to the response to the pandemic right 171 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:57,560 Speaker 1: and how initially when you think about a nation coming 172 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:02,240 Speaker 1: together right during times of war, during times of crisis. 173 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 1: The pandemic did not turn out to be that. It 174 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 1: was probably one of the most divisive events that we've 175 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:15,320 Speaker 1: experienced as a country. And so I want you to 176 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:19,959 Speaker 1: be able to kind of speak to the collective I guess, 177 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:23,080 Speaker 1: for lack of a better term, because I know that 178 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:26,319 Speaker 1: there's a clinical understanding of what trauma is and what 179 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 1: that looks like. But how we have been shaped or 180 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:34,040 Speaker 1: reshaped as a nation over the last eight years by 181 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 1: these two very distinct and connected events. 182 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:41,079 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it came right out of that first 183 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 2: these four years of ongoing kind of collective trauma of 184 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 2: it's like being in a domestic violence relationship, this abusive relationship, 185 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 2: and it hadn't even we hadn't even come out of 186 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 2: that when the pandemic began. And you know, to your point, 187 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:57,880 Speaker 2: it's so interesting that I thought, Wow, like any other 188 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:00,720 Speaker 2: president would have taken the pandemic as an opportunity to 189 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:04,080 Speaker 2: turn things around, like you think about what happened with 190 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:07,679 Speaker 2: nine to eleven and everybody rally because you can use 191 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 2: a common external enemy to unite. But the president we 192 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:14,040 Speaker 2: had at the time was not interested in uniting anybody 193 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 2: because division is his tool of control, so we instead, 194 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 2: like you said, went into another time of collective trauma 195 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 2: that has a very ambiguous ending, if at all. I 196 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:31,440 Speaker 2: had just concluded research on the effects the trauma effects 197 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 2: of mass shootings as the pandemic was beginning, and I 198 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 2: saw these parallels so evident in the way collective trauma 199 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:42,560 Speaker 2: happens and the way that it fractures us from one another. 200 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:45,960 Speaker 2: And this was a very concrete thing that happened with 201 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 2: the pandemic because we had to stay from disconnected from 202 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 2: one another physically, at least at first, in order to 203 00:12:54,640 --> 00:13:01,680 Speaker 2: protect one another. Well, medical developments were catching up. 204 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 1: And what does it mean then that we're you know, 205 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 1: we're three years removed from the worst part of the pandemic, 206 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:15,960 Speaker 1: but we're not three years removed from the psychological trauma 207 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 1: from the pandemic, let alone those that are that are 208 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 1: ailing from long COVID. What I find really interesting, doctor Vanal, 209 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 1: is that we have not had an opportunity to collectively 210 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:35,959 Speaker 1: gree and or even acknowledge what we have been through 211 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 1: and what we are continuing to go through as a nation, 212 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 1: let alone as a planet. And I can you speak 213 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:50,080 Speaker 1: to what it means to also not ignowl what unacknowledged grief? 214 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 1: What happens when we have unacknowledged grief, because that's I 215 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 1: find myself really in this space these days where I'm 216 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:05,600 Speaker 1: just like over a million Americans died over three years, 217 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:10,960 Speaker 1: Like over a million Americans, Like we lost, yeah, and 218 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:14,560 Speaker 1: we don't acknowledge it at all. We're just you're back 219 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:18,800 Speaker 1: at work, whether it's hybrid or still remote, you're back 220 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 1: on this kind of hamster wheel of societal expectations, and 221 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:26,760 Speaker 1: there's been no room for that grief. And I just 222 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 1: want to know what the repercussions of that are and 223 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 1: what have you seen? 224 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, greed. You know, that's such a great point because 225 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 2: acknowledging what your trauma is, what your loss is, is 226 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 2: a first step to healing. You here in the classic 227 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 2: like twelve Steps a April, and the first step is 228 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 2: to name it, and I talked about that in both 229 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 2: of my books as well. First we have to acknowledge 230 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 2: what is, and then we can grieve what we've lost. 231 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 2: And those are essential steps in order to moving to 232 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:57,760 Speaker 2: healing and to reclaiming our sense of self and their 233 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 2: sense of safety, which is really the key element when 234 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 2: it comes to trauma. We lost a great sense of 235 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 2: safety just to move freely in society. A very fundamental 236 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 2: sense of freedom was lost, and there was not a 237 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 2: sense of Okay, everything is safe now it was. Everything's 238 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 2: been very gradual and amorphous and depending where you are 239 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 2: and who you listen to, and so for a lot 240 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 2: of people, it's been really really hard or hasn't happened 241 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:28,480 Speaker 2: yet to be able to reclaim a sense of just 242 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:32,280 Speaker 2: feeling safe within ourselves. And that's the root of trauma. 243 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 2: So we do need to really take some time to 244 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 2: look back, to reflect, to say what did I lose, 245 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 2: how have things changed, how have I changed? And to 246 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 2: grieve what can't be reclaimed in order to rebuild what. 247 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 1: Is I feel like Because we've been forced in so 248 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 1: many ways because of capitalism, because of this need to 249 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 1: participate in the grind of day to day life, that 250 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 1: try to take that space to even have that moment 251 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 1: or moments to really reflect on the significant loss that 252 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 1: we've experienced is not even acknowledged. There's no room for it. 253 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 1: People are in this, you know, some people let me 254 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:21,520 Speaker 1: not generalize, you know, immensely, but it's as if society's like, 255 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 1: move on, right, just just move on. Take your mask off, 256 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:28,560 Speaker 1: you know, get back, get back to work, get back 257 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 1: at it, get back to life. And yet there's no acknowledgement, 258 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 1: there's no collective acknowledgement. When President Biden and Vice President 259 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:43,320 Speaker 1: Kamala Harris before inauguration, between the inauguration and the insurrection, 260 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 1: there was a memorial that happened on the lawn of 261 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:54,560 Speaker 1: the on the National Mall, and it was the first 262 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:58,360 Speaker 1: time in an entire year that we as a nation 263 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 1: had paused, and there were lights everywhere that were lighting 264 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:05,640 Speaker 1: up an acknowledgment of at that moment, I think over 265 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:10,719 Speaker 1: four hundred thousand people that we had lost, and I 266 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:15,400 Speaker 1: remember crying right as I was sitting there and watching it. 267 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:21,400 Speaker 1: And since then, since that moment, there's been no yearly acknowledgment. 268 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 1: And so what advice do you give to people who 269 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 1: are being forced to pick up and move on like 270 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:35,280 Speaker 1: all is okay, and are not given the outside permission 271 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:40,399 Speaker 1: to find a way to grieve, but desperately need to. 272 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:43,520 Speaker 2: You know, I love actually what you just said and 273 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:46,920 Speaker 2: then you said you cried, because so often we don't 274 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:50,240 Speaker 2: give ourselves permission to do that, especially when we've gone 275 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 2: through a collective trauma and we say, well, they had 276 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 2: it worse. You know, my I didn't lose a parent 277 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 2: and my friend did, or I didn't get long COVID 278 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 2: and so and so I did. So I don't have 279 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:04,919 Speaker 2: permission to grieve because my pain is not as bad 280 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:07,600 Speaker 2: as its person. And that is such a block to 281 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:10,359 Speaker 2: our own healing because it doesn't have to be leveled. 282 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:12,439 Speaker 2: It doesn't have to be a hierarchy of pain. But 283 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 2: what you have gone through or what you have just 284 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:18,120 Speaker 2: your empathic heart, what you have, the burden of suffering 285 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 2: that you carry is something that you do need to 286 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:25,439 Speaker 2: attend to. And crying itself is a stress reliever. Our 287 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:27,720 Speaker 2: tears actually carry different influence based on what kind of 288 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 2: tears we have, Like if we're crying out of stress 289 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 2: or anger or sadness or even joy, there's a different 290 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:38,240 Speaker 2: chemical composition to richers because they are releasing these really 291 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:44,359 Speaker 2: powerful hormones and so allowing ourselves that is really really powerful. 292 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 2: It can be great to just stop if you you know, 293 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 2: I know life is a grind and it's busy, but 294 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:51,480 Speaker 2: take some time to write in a journal and write 295 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 2: it all through. What if I lost, what have I gained? 296 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:57,840 Speaker 2: Because it's good to balance too, because while I felt 297 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:01,879 Speaker 2: I lost some really important things things during these years, 298 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 2: I also gained some really powerful like some friendship that 299 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:08,720 Speaker 2: grew where people showed up in ways that I didn't expect, 300 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:10,440 Speaker 2: you know, just dropping a coffee off on my front 301 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 2: door when we couldn't be together, and I felt so 302 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:15,560 Speaker 2: loved in those moments, and some things flourished. There's gains 303 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 2: and there's losses, so counting those acknowledging them is really powerful. 304 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:25,640 Speaker 2: And thirdly, i'd also say we're, like you said, we're 305 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 2: in this time where some people say take you. You know, 306 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 2: just yesterday somebody ridiculed me for wearing a mask to 307 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:34,120 Speaker 2: an event in a stadium. Okay, I don't know you people, 308 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:36,200 Speaker 2: and I'm not on stage, so I'm gonna cover my base. 309 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 2: So we're in this weird place where people have different levels. 310 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 2: And I think this kind of comes back a bit 311 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 2: to the gaslighting, the question of you can trust your intuition, 312 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:50,359 Speaker 2: You can trust yourself and what's best for you and 313 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 2: what you've lost, and listen to yourself. You don't need 314 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 2: to have it evalidated by everybody, because it's not going 315 00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 2: to be. Don't wait for that. Listen to your own validation, 316 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:04,119 Speaker 2: your own acknowledgment. Listen to your own emotions and feelings 317 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 2: and let yourself have them, don't deny them. Does not 318 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 2: deny yourself your own experience. 319 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:16,639 Speaker 1: Don't deny yourself your own experience. I love that. I 320 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:20,200 Speaker 1: love that because I think that everything that you said 321 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 1: with regard to I shouldn't cry because my suffering, my 322 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:28,920 Speaker 1: pain is not as bad and this desire to have 323 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:34,000 Speaker 1: this comparable competitive grief, right, So I just kind of 324 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 1: have to shoulder on, muster on because my loss isn't 325 00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 1: as great as it could have been, but your loss 326 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 1: is still your loss, right, and I think that in 327 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:50,920 Speaker 1: honoring that and finding space for that, whether it's journaling 328 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:54,960 Speaker 1: or meditating or walking or talking to a friend or 329 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 1: a therapist, which I highly recommend everyone do, because I've 330 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:02,119 Speaker 1: had therapist for five years and I have no idea 331 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 1: where I would be emotionally during all of this time 332 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:11,440 Speaker 1: if I did not have a professional kind of guiding 333 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:16,119 Speaker 1: my process, which I share on the show on a 334 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:20,880 Speaker 1: regular basis. This just a few weeks ago, I had 335 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:25,119 Speaker 1: the opportunity to talk with a group of high schoolers 336 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 1: in nine through twelve, and you know your book Trauma. 337 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:36,159 Speaker 1: The Trauma Recovery Workbook for Teens, I thought was just 338 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 1: so right on time. I was asking these young people, 339 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:44,359 Speaker 1: and they ranged in age from probably fifteen to seventeen, 340 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 1: right ninth through twelfth grade, and I was asking them 341 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:51,159 Speaker 1: what some of their biggest concerns are, because I feel 342 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:54,239 Speaker 1: like all we do is talk at Generation Z and 343 00:21:54,359 --> 00:22:00,040 Speaker 1: Jen Alpha and about them, but never to them. It 344 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,400 Speaker 1: was taken aback, doctor Vernall by the things that they 345 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:07,679 Speaker 1: said that they were concerned with, inflation, whether or not 346 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 1: we were going to run out of clean water, another pandemic, 347 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:19,560 Speaker 1: mass shootings, things that when I was fifteen I never 348 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 1: had a care of in the world. And I'll tell 349 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:23,959 Speaker 1: you that money was the number one thing that they 350 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:28,199 Speaker 1: were concerned about. Having enough and not just in a 351 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 1: oh I want to buy sneakers blah blah, but being 352 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:33,960 Speaker 1: able to afford a home, being able to take care 353 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:38,960 Speaker 1: of their families. These are things that at fifteen, they 354 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 1: are being weighted with. And so I wanted to give 355 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:44,960 Speaker 1: you an opportunity to talk about your books, specifically for 356 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:50,880 Speaker 1: teens and trauma and what we may be missing in 357 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:55,199 Speaker 1: what has been referred to as a silent crisis and 358 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:58,400 Speaker 1: a silent pandemic that is happening with our young people 359 00:22:58,520 --> 00:22:58,920 Speaker 1: right now. 360 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:05,120 Speaker 2: Yeah. Wow, there's so much there, And I just want 361 00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:07,640 Speaker 2: to pause too and say, I think it's so our 362 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:10,399 Speaker 2: gen z are our youth right now are so in touch. 363 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:13,720 Speaker 2: They're burdened with a lot, but also they have I 364 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:18,480 Speaker 2: think they're deeply empathic, they're really paying attention. They are 365 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:23,119 Speaker 2: inheriting a very difficult, broken world. But I hate it 366 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:25,560 Speaker 2: when people get down on young people. You know, they're 367 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,679 Speaker 2: paying attention, they're empathic, they're empowered, and they're passionate. And 368 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:30,480 Speaker 2: I think that gives me a lot of hope for 369 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 2: the future because give those kids four years and they're 370 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:36,960 Speaker 2: voting and for the right things. But at the same time, 371 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:40,720 Speaker 2: we do need to pause and acknowledge the weight on 372 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:44,440 Speaker 2: their shoulders of carrying so much and the trauma impacts 373 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:47,879 Speaker 2: and what is it like to skip chunks of your 374 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:52,480 Speaker 2: adolescence because of pandemic shutdown, to have that kind of 375 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 2: arrested and rerouted developmental process. So yeah, so the quest, 376 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:02,200 Speaker 2: and I guess your question was like, what is that 377 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:06,720 Speaker 2: process of if trauma resilience through all of that. Yeah, 378 00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:12,960 Speaker 2: I think to speak directly to two teens. This sounds cliche, 379 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 2: but I want to say self care is so important. 380 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 2: And I don't mean in like a oh, what's the 381 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:21,680 Speaker 2: name of her, that white celebrity with her vaginal eggs 382 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:23,200 Speaker 2: and all that nonsense. So I don't mean that kind 383 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:32,159 Speaker 2: of self care is all like the spot. 384 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:36,040 Speaker 1: White celebrity with her vet. You know that's amazing. Oh 385 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:36,360 Speaker 1: my gosh. 386 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:37,719 Speaker 2: I hope she doesn't get mad that we said that 387 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:42,120 Speaker 2: all press is good for us. No, but selfiere as 388 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:45,000 Speaker 2: in like making sure that you're actually unplugging, you're going 389 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:47,800 Speaker 2: to bed and you're getting sleep, which is so restorative 390 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:51,360 Speaker 2: and so last on everybody's agendic. You're like, ooh, I'm big, 391 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:53,119 Speaker 2: I can stay up late. Like no, take care of 392 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 2: yourself enough sleep, make sure you're moving, make sure you're 393 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,359 Speaker 2: eating well. These things like parents can help kids with, 394 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:00,400 Speaker 2: but also kids can help themselves with as are growing 395 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,680 Speaker 2: into their own adulthood in just a few years. These 396 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,199 Speaker 2: things are foundational to resilience and they're so simple and 397 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:10,320 Speaker 2: so basic. And then, like you said, therapy is so powerful, 398 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:13,399 Speaker 2: we don't have to be it's not. There's this misconception, 399 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:18,399 Speaker 2: especially among males, that to be strong is to not 400 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 2: feel to tuck it down and not bring it to 401 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 2: the surface. But really true strength is having the ability 402 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:29,399 Speaker 2: to look at the hard parts right. Strength is saying 403 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:34,080 Speaker 2: like I can move through something that's very difficult and painful, 404 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 2: and sometimes it's really a lot too much to do 405 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 2: on our own, and it's so wonderful to have an ally, 406 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 2: to have a professional if that's available to you. And 407 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:46,359 Speaker 2: there's a lot of ways I can talk about to 408 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:47,960 Speaker 2: you about how to access therapy if you don't have 409 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:49,960 Speaker 2: a privilege, or just paying out of pocket for somebody 410 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:56,200 Speaker 2: who's pricey, but finding people to talk to. Journaling is 411 00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 2: a great way to get your thoughts out of your mind, 412 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:02,200 Speaker 2: but also to give it them focused attention. It's kind 413 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,359 Speaker 2: of a form of active mindful meditation in a way, really, 414 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:07,920 Speaker 2: which is another powerful thing to do. So all these 415 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:11,960 Speaker 2: are really really important ways to build your resilience as 416 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 2: well as to cope with whatever it is you may 417 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 2: be going through. 418 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:23,240 Speaker 1: Last question for you, doctor Vanal is is this you know. 419 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 1: I find that people who listen to Woke Up in 420 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:31,919 Speaker 1: particular are very tapped into the news. Young people, older people, 421 00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 1: they're very tapped in and they feel that they can't unplug, 422 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,880 Speaker 1: because that would mean that they don't care. That would 423 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 1: mean that they're not acknowledging the pain and the suffering 424 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:49,119 Speaker 1: that is being experienced in this country and around the world. 425 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 1: And I can't give people permission, but I want your 426 00:26:55,080 --> 00:27:00,160 Speaker 1: advice on how they give themselves permission to take a bring'. 427 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 2: That's so true, and honestly, I really relate to that. 428 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 2: I struggled with that for a long time myself, and 429 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:12,920 Speaker 2: then I had to realize that my empathic capacity is limited. 430 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,119 Speaker 2: And I don't mean that to be seeing I'm selfish, 431 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,720 Speaker 2: but there's a point where if I take on so much, 432 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:21,480 Speaker 2: then I'm too broken to help anybody else either. So 433 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:24,639 Speaker 2: I need to figure out where those boundaries are. And 434 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,600 Speaker 2: so I don't tune out. It's important to me to 435 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:30,720 Speaker 2: know what's going on, but I realize I don't need 436 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:35,000 Speaker 2: to dive into every detail of every story, okay, in 437 00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:38,000 Speaker 2: order to be in tune with what's going on. So 438 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:42,760 Speaker 2: I spend some time every day responding to petitions or 439 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:46,360 Speaker 2: contacting you know, my congress person or whatever about things 440 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 2: that matter because I want to have some influence. And 441 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 2: then I unpluck when there's a big event, there's a 442 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,639 Speaker 2: mass shooting or something. I choose not to read the 443 00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:58,120 Speaker 2: bios of every victim, and it's not because I don't care, 444 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:00,679 Speaker 2: but it's because it won't make it different. So I'm 445 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,359 Speaker 2: trying to reserve my energy for where it can be powerful. 446 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:09,159 Speaker 2: It's good to think why is something being written? Okay, 447 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:11,159 Speaker 2: of course me think of the news is there to 448 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 2: keep us informed, but it's also a huge business, right, 449 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:17,199 Speaker 2: It's capitalism at its best. So what's going to be 450 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:19,520 Speaker 2: headlining is what's going to sell, which is going to 451 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:21,920 Speaker 2: be outrage, which is going to be the most dramatic stuff. 452 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 2: But that doesn't mean it's what we need for ourselves. 453 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,480 Speaker 2: We need to be informed, but we don't need to 454 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:31,320 Speaker 2: dive into what won't help others. So know what's going on, 455 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 2: so you can you can go to the march, and 456 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,480 Speaker 2: you can protest, and you can make a difference, but 457 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:41,880 Speaker 2: don't saturate yourself with things that make you feel unsafe. 458 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:46,320 Speaker 2: And that's what we see with when it's when we're 459 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 2: reading every detail of every shooting, or we're saturating ourselves 460 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 2: with news about the pandemic. I would definitely fell into 461 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:58,000 Speaker 2: that during those years of reading every possible thing on 462 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 2: the medical side, feeling like that's going to keep me safe. Yeah, 463 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:05,960 Speaker 2: and it really safety is the is the core issue 464 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 2: when it comes to trauma of not feeling safe. And 465 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,000 Speaker 2: sometimes we feel like knowing everything will make us safer, 466 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:14,600 Speaker 2: and to the extent that it does, go for it, 467 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:17,200 Speaker 2: but there's a point where it just makes us feel 468 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:21,160 Speaker 2: always on edge, always unsafe, and that's a really unhealthy 469 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,200 Speaker 2: way to move through the world. You can't be at 470 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 2: your best, you can't help others. You can't also embrace 471 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:29,400 Speaker 2: the good in life because you have ugiven yourself time 472 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 2: to bring that in as well. So engage and then 473 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 2: disengage and then be mindful. And what I mean by 474 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:40,360 Speaker 2: that is paying attention on purpose to what's going on 475 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:44,480 Speaker 2: around you. So if you're outside, like stopping and what 476 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:47,200 Speaker 2: do I hear? Do I hear a burning Do I 477 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:49,240 Speaker 2: hear cars driving by? Do I hear the wind and 478 00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 2: the leaves? And just notice this is really cliche, but 479 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:55,840 Speaker 2: when I go for a walk, they literally stop and 480 00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 2: smell flowers. I do it. My my ningrid of roving lump. 481 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 2: My dude's right now there. Yeah, Because it's like it's 482 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:05,560 Speaker 2: called we talk about like microdosing joy taking those little 483 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 2: like seconds to bring some joy in a mindful way 484 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:12,560 Speaker 2: into our lives and then conclude each day thinking about 485 00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:16,600 Speaker 2: what from this day was good and beautiful that you're 486 00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:19,680 Speaker 2: grateful for. And it can be really really simple, like 487 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:24,840 Speaker 2: the smile from your barista or or something more grand. 488 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:28,800 Speaker 2: But when we do that, we turn our mind from 489 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:32,200 Speaker 2: the evil that we may have been absorbing absorbing to 490 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,560 Speaker 2: something good. And that's a form of self care and 491 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,479 Speaker 2: resilience and staying in touch so that we don't just 492 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 2: burn out and can no longer be effective agents of change. 493 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:48,400 Speaker 1: I love that doctor Deborah vinal I really appreciate this 494 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 1: conversation and I know that my listeners will. Folks. Doctor 495 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 1: Debora Vanala is a licensed marriage and family therapist and 496 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:59,160 Speaker 1: the author of two award winning books, Gaslighting, A step 497 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:03,640 Speaker 1: by step or Coverguide and Trauma Recovery Workbook Four Teens. 498 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:07,360 Speaker 1: Check them both out and I hope that you will 499 00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,960 Speaker 1: join us again to continue the conversation around mental health 500 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:16,440 Speaker 1: and self care, UH and micro microdosing joy which I 501 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:17,440 Speaker 1: love that term. 502 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:19,560 Speaker 2: Thank you, my pleasure, thank you. 503 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 1: That is it for me today. Dear friends on wok 504 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,760 Speaker 1: F as always power to the people and to all 505 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:34,320 Speaker 1: the people power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.