1
00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,600
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. Your guide to

2
00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:08,719
Speaker 1: the White Tail Woods presented by first Light, creating proven

3
00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:13,080
Speaker 1: versatile hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First

4
00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:18,759
Speaker 1: Light Go farther, stay Longer, and now your host Mark Kenyon.

5
00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:22,000
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. This is Jake Hoefer.

6
00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:25,160
Speaker 2: On this week's show, we have Thomas Milsna, who owns

7
00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:29,040
Speaker 2: the Untamed Ambition, to talk about habitat projects you should

8
00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:41,760
Speaker 2: be thinking about right now. Welcome back to another episode

9
00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:44,280
Speaker 2: of Wire to Hunt. I'm your host Jake Hofer, and

10
00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:47,199
Speaker 2: today we're diving into a topic that I think a

11
00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:51,280
Speaker 2: lot of deer hunters care about but sometimes struggle to prioritize,

12
00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:56,560
Speaker 2: and that's habitat projects that actually move the needle. There's

13
00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:58,760
Speaker 2: no shortage of things you can do on a property,

14
00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:02,880
Speaker 2: food plots, betting, cud hinge cutting, water holes, access improvements,

15
00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:06,120
Speaker 2: tree planning. The list goes on, but the reality is

16
00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:09,880
Speaker 2: not every project delivers the same impact. Some projects great

17
00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:13,120
Speaker 2: real measurable improvements and how deer use the property, and

18
00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:16,679
Speaker 2: others sometimes just feels like busy work. Today we're going

19
00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:20,280
Speaker 2: to talk about what actually matters. Joining me is Thomas

20
00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:24,080
Speaker 2: Milsen from the Untamed Ambition. Thomas has a biology background

21
00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:27,119
Speaker 2: and has been spending years working with landowners across the country,

22
00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:30,800
Speaker 2: helping them design habitat systems that not only improve hunting,

23
00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:34,360
Speaker 2: but improve the overall health of the landscape itself. And

24
00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:38,039
Speaker 2: that's where this conversation gets very interesting because when we

25
00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:41,240
Speaker 2: talk about habitat improvement, we often focus on bigger deer

26
00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:44,560
Speaker 2: or better opportunities, but the reality is that healthier landscapes

27
00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:47,520
Speaker 2: can also mean healthier deer herds. And a time where

28
00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:52,400
Speaker 2: hunters are increasingly concerned about diseases like EHD, the role

29
00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:54,840
Speaker 2: that habitat quality plays in deer health is something worth

30
00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:56,960
Speaker 2: paying attention to. So today we're going to break down

31
00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:59,760
Speaker 2: what projects actually move the needle, and how to do

32
00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:02,400
Speaker 2: it and why you should consider some of these projects

33
00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:05,840
Speaker 2: for this upcoming season. Welcome to Wired Hunt, presented by Moultrie.

34
00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:08,040
Speaker 2: Let's go in and get into this week's episode. Here

35
00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:16,359
Speaker 2: we go, all right, Thomas, Welcome to Wired to Hunt.

36
00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:18,920
Speaker 3: How's it going great? Great? How are you?

37
00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:22,960
Speaker 2: I'm doing great? We have a lot of exciting things

38
00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:26,480
Speaker 2: to talk about here today. It's bring people are either

39
00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:29,880
Speaker 2: relishing from a great season or even if they are,

40
00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:33,639
Speaker 2: they're probably identifying some different habitat projects that are going

41
00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:36,920
Speaker 2: to help incrementally increase their success for next year and

42
00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:38,440
Speaker 2: maybe even five or ten years later.

43
00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:40,160
Speaker 4: So I mean a lot of different things.

44
00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:43,200
Speaker 2: There's a lot of different habitat Conversations that focus on

45
00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:45,880
Speaker 2: projects like that will hit the high ones like hinge cutting,

46
00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:49,200
Speaker 2: food plots, creating betting areas. But in your experience, what

47
00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:53,280
Speaker 2: are a few habitat changes that actually move the needle

48
00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:58,400
Speaker 2: to improve your property? I understand this is completely situational,

49
00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:00,480
Speaker 2: but on a high level of the you know, you

50
00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:02,160
Speaker 2: can sol for a living and you work on you know,

51
00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:05,360
Speaker 2: your own place and all these different things, what is

52
00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:07,840
Speaker 2: typically one of the biggest holes in the bucket that

53
00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:10,079
Speaker 2: people need to get out the flat seal and slap

54
00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:11,440
Speaker 2: it on a bucket and fix it.

55
00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:17,560
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, that's a kind of a loaded question. You know,

56
00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:22,720
Speaker 3: every situation is so different, you know, and the complexities

57
00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:27,160
Speaker 3: of every individual landscape or every area are so different

58
00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:29,000
Speaker 3: that it's hard to have, you know, that cookie cutter

59
00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:33,280
Speaker 3: or generalized answer to that response. What I would say,

60
00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:36,040
Speaker 3: you know, in every situation, our goal is always to

61
00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:40,440
Speaker 3: analyze that objectively highlight the strong points, highlight the weak

62
00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:43,640
Speaker 3: points of every property, and then we prioritize that, you know,

63
00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:46,800
Speaker 3: what is that low hole in the bucket. When we

64
00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:50,720
Speaker 3: are trying to build a property, we really focus on

65
00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:56,920
Speaker 3: three main factors holdability, huntability, and management efficiency. You know,

66
00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:01,560
Speaker 3: our our design element in and of itself is generally

67
00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:06,279
Speaker 3: what creates the huntability side of things. The wholdability is

68
00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:09,800
Speaker 3: somewhat related to the design, but largely related to the habitat.

69
00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:13,720
Speaker 3: And then the management efficiency is how effective you can

70
00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:18,200
Speaker 3: improve and maintain that habitat along the way. So you know,

71
00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:21,240
Speaker 3: we're talking about springtime, things are greening up. I was

72
00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:24,160
Speaker 3: just in southern Iowa, which is drastically different from here

73
00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:26,240
Speaker 3: in the Midwest. I mean, we're forecast to get eight

74
00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:29,800
Speaker 3: inches of snow tomorrow. But I get down there and

75
00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:31,359
Speaker 3: I almost have like a little bit of a panic

76
00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:33,520
Speaker 3: attack where I'm like, oh, spring us here, you know,

77
00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:35,520
Speaker 3: like to bring us here, and we're not ready. And

78
00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:38,840
Speaker 3: all these clients are waiting to, you know, get ready

79
00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:41,559
Speaker 3: to hit the ground running with spring. But every single

80
00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:45,719
Speaker 3: individual client property has different low hanging fruit so to speak,

81
00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:48,560
Speaker 3: or that one project that's going to give you the

82
00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:53,880
Speaker 3: most ROI well, you go back to holdability, specifically with habitat.

83
00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:58,600
Speaker 3: The common denominator that I've seen on every property i've

84
00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:00,760
Speaker 3: bet on this year is a failable ability of food.

85
00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:04,080
Speaker 3: And you know, availability of food comes in a lot

86
00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:07,160
Speaker 3: of different layers and levels. More often than not, we're

87
00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:09,239
Speaker 3: always thinking like, what's the thing that we can plant.

88
00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:11,200
Speaker 3: You know, what's the magic bean or this food plot

89
00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:14,200
Speaker 3: that we can plant, which in some situations that might

90
00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:16,800
Speaker 3: be the low hanging fruit. It's usually the easiest thing

91
00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:19,760
Speaker 3: to address, which is largely why a lot of us

92
00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:22,599
Speaker 3: gravitate towards that. That's pretty simple. There's a clear area there,

93
00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:24,599
Speaker 3: or we'll push open this area, will plant this seed.

94
00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:27,040
Speaker 3: It's going to solve our problems. But I think it's

95
00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:31,400
Speaker 3: really important to emphasize and for the listeners to consider

96
00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:34,200
Speaker 3: or remind them, because we're all aware of this at

97
00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:36,960
Speaker 3: some level, right, But understand that when you look at

98
00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:40,600
Speaker 3: the deer food pyramid, the cultivated food sources and that's

99
00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:43,120
Speaker 3: how I categorize them, you know, food plots and even

100
00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:46,280
Speaker 3: egg fields. Those cultivated food sources make up less than

101
00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:48,800
Speaker 3: twenty percent of a deer's diet. Actually probably closer to

102
00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:52,200
Speaker 3: fifteen or ten percent. Most of the year, so that's

103
00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:53,960
Speaker 3: not the thing that's really going to move the needle

104
00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:56,680
Speaker 3: for you. It's all the other food groups in there,

105
00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:03,320
Speaker 3: soft mass production, hard mass production, forbes and legumes, woody stems, bramble,

106
00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:05,920
Speaker 3: stuff like that, woody vines, I was gonna say, bramble,

107
00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:09,880
Speaker 3: and then your your woody brows in general. And then

108
00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:12,480
Speaker 3: at the foundation of that food pyramid is your moss's

109
00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:16,520
Speaker 3: fungus and lichen, which are part of good habitat management,

110
00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:18,680
Speaker 3: good forest stand management in general, and they kind of

111
00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:22,400
Speaker 3: go hand in hand with the woody regeneration, which would

112
00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:26,240
Speaker 3: bring me to, you know, probably the top of the

113
00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:28,920
Speaker 3: list in most situations, the project that's going to move

114
00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:31,039
Speaker 3: the needle to most If a guy has an afternoon

115
00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:33,200
Speaker 3: or a day to get out and do something, it's

116
00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:35,240
Speaker 3: going to be a timber stand improvement project of some

117
00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:39,480
Speaker 3: sort that's gonna you know, get ash. You back up

118
00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:42,600
Speaker 3: your priority or your objective with any timber stand improvement

119
00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:44,719
Speaker 3: project is going to be to get sunlight to the

120
00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:49,360
Speaker 3: ground to promote regeneration. But it's not always straightforward as that,

121
00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:51,240
Speaker 3: which is why you know, it's important to have a

122
00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:55,440
Speaker 3: good plan or really understand what that project entails as

123
00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:57,719
Speaker 3: far as like what you do and the results that

124
00:06:57,760 --> 00:06:59,960
Speaker 3: you should expect, which is going to be based on

125
00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:03,680
Speaker 3: a lot of different parameters, right aspect of that piece

126
00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:06,760
Speaker 3: of ground, that particular area. So let's back up. If

127
00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:09,920
Speaker 3: I want to do a timber stand improvement project, and

128
00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:13,080
Speaker 3: maybe I want to focus on an area that could

129
00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:16,520
Speaker 3: be improved for betting. So I'm moving the needle ahead

130
00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:20,480
Speaker 3: by improving cover, I'm improving availability of food in a

131
00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:23,520
Speaker 3: secure location, which is going to increase the whole ability

132
00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:25,720
Speaker 3: of the property, especially when you're talking about mature bucks

133
00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:28,920
Speaker 3: that are more susceptible the pressure. Right, So if I

134
00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:30,880
Speaker 3: want to move the needle on that, and I want

135
00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:34,840
Speaker 3: to assess that specific location, I'm going in there, and

136
00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:38,440
Speaker 3: I'm looking at first and foremost the aspect of that location.

137
00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:42,280
Speaker 3: Which direction does it faces it totally flat ground or

138
00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:44,240
Speaker 3: is it a hill? How much sun is it going

139
00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:46,480
Speaker 3: to get when I punch a hole in the canopy here?

140
00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:48,840
Speaker 3: You know, in hill country where I am, you get

141
00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:50,600
Speaker 3: a self facing slope. You don't have to cut nearly

142
00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:52,640
Speaker 3: as heavy to get the same amount of sunlight in there.

143
00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:56,600
Speaker 3: But at the same time, there's different levels to your

144
00:07:56,640 --> 00:08:02,120
Speaker 3: TSI that will promote the best response, and ultimately, when

145
00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:04,880
Speaker 3: we boil it down to management efficiency, we want to

146
00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:08,200
Speaker 3: be thinking about this project, but then how do we

147
00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:13,360
Speaker 3: maintain that or get ourselves in a routine that incrementally

148
00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:16,240
Speaker 3: improves the property, whether it's this one specific area that

149
00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:19,640
Speaker 3: we've improved or the whole property, you know, painting with

150
00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:22,200
Speaker 3: a more broad brush. But we don't want to fall

151
00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:24,880
Speaker 3: into this trap of go cut a bunch of trees

152
00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:28,640
Speaker 3: like you mentioned hinge cutting. You don't want to go

153
00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:31,600
Speaker 3: like hingecut a bedding area and then think that you're

154
00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:34,680
Speaker 3: done right. So, like when I lay things out for

155
00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:37,040
Speaker 3: the client as far as like priority projects, things that

156
00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:39,199
Speaker 3: are going to move the needle, it's like, what can

157
00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:41,560
Speaker 3: we do now, and how do we do that in

158
00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:44,600
Speaker 3: a way that is a one time time or money

159
00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:48,920
Speaker 3: investment to push you forward? But ultimately, how do we

160
00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:51,920
Speaker 3: manage that from that point on so that we don't

161
00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:54,000
Speaker 3: go backwards? And that's what we see a lot on

162
00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:55,880
Speaker 3: a lot of properties is you know, it's a project,

163
00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:58,319
Speaker 3: we cut, we do this thing, you know, maybe it's

164
00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:01,160
Speaker 3: broad scale logging project, whatever it might be, but we

165
00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:05,160
Speaker 3: go in we create this disturbance. Ultimately, mechanical, maybe some

166
00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:08,120
Speaker 3: chemical for cutting and treating and removing invasives, But how

167
00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:11,520
Speaker 3: do we keep that in a state that is either

168
00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:14,840
Speaker 3: constantly improving or at the very least maintaining so that

169
00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:18,240
Speaker 3: it still offers that food value for de right.

170
00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:20,680
Speaker 2: What are some of those things for someone that's like, yeah, Thomas,

171
00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:23,079
Speaker 2: of course TSI. Everyone says TSI's one of the most

172
00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:27,240
Speaker 2: impactful projects. I did it four years ago, and you know,

173
00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:29,360
Speaker 2: it seems like every year. You know, first first two

174
00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:30,959
Speaker 2: years it was really good and they were using it

175
00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:32,800
Speaker 2: and there was a lot of brows and man, I

176
00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:35,640
Speaker 2: found two sheds in their one shed season, and now

177
00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:38,360
Speaker 2: it just seems like activity and use is going down.

178
00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:40,600
Speaker 2: So like, what are the things to address of whether

179
00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:45,680
Speaker 2: undesirable species are coming back up or you know, like

180
00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:47,320
Speaker 2: what are some of the things that you can diagnose

181
00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:49,560
Speaker 2: to where you've already done it and you're a year

182
00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:51,679
Speaker 2: four into it, Like, I need to revisit this because

183
00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:54,560
Speaker 2: you're saying the management of it is almost as important

184
00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:55,559
Speaker 2: as the initiation.

185
00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:59,520
Speaker 3: I would argue it's more important for sure, you know.

186
00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:04,839
Speaker 3: And that's where I have two demographics, two multiple demographics,

187
00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:08,480
Speaker 3: but two real main demographics of clientele, and both of

188
00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:11,600
Speaker 3: them have the same problems, right, you have in your

189
00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:13,960
Speaker 3: realtor so you understand this, right, the cost of land

190
00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:15,120
Speaker 3: is not going down.

191
00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:15,640
Speaker 4: Now.

192
00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:19,320
Speaker 3: The guys that can afford hunting land either are so

193
00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:21,520
Speaker 3: busy with their career that they don't have time to

194
00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:25,600
Speaker 3: put into it, or they're yeah, I mean ultimately it's

195
00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:27,960
Speaker 3: the same thing, right, Either they're a prominent businessman that

196
00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:30,959
Speaker 3: doesn't have a lot of time, or there's someone blue

197
00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:33,680
Speaker 3: collar guy that works his tail off and either doesn't

198
00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:35,040
Speaker 3: have a lot of time or doesn't have an extra

199
00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:37,400
Speaker 3: a lot of extra cash to jam into the property

200
00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:40,520
Speaker 3: to hire someone to do these projects. Either way, I

201
00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:42,559
Speaker 3: look at the same way. It's like when we break

202
00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:47,680
Speaker 3: these plans down into different projects based on a timeline.

203
00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:50,560
Speaker 3: You know, year one, do this, year two do this,

204
00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:53,240
Speaker 3: similar to like an EQUIP contract, right where they'll be

205
00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:56,199
Speaker 3: like year one, focus on this zone, You're two, focus

206
00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:58,040
Speaker 3: on that zone, but then go back and follow up

207
00:10:58,040 --> 00:10:59,960
Speaker 3: on zone one, right, and you get you in kind

208
00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:03,160
Speaker 3: this routine. But that's where EQUIP kind of falls apart

209
00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:05,280
Speaker 3: because then just like well, after three years and you're

210
00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:07,160
Speaker 3: paid and you've remove the invasives, what do you do

211
00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:11,520
Speaker 3: so ultimately, prior to stepping into any of those projects,

212
00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:14,800
Speaker 3: we need to be thinking what are we going to

213
00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:21,160
Speaker 3: do as far as a controlled disturbance to maintain some

214
00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:25,679
Speaker 3: level of early succession in this area. And you know

215
00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:30,000
Speaker 3: my approach, I try to get really really detailed on properties.

216
00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:34,559
Speaker 3: So we'll look at specific betting locations, specific feeding locations,

217
00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:39,440
Speaker 3: and various different types of food sources in general, and

218
00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:41,720
Speaker 3: we're creating travel corridors and so on and so forth.

219
00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:44,439
Speaker 3: But between those locations, we're trying to paint with a

220
00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:48,880
Speaker 3: much broader brush so that we can manage at a

221
00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:53,560
Speaker 3: more efficient level, because it's unrealistic to think that a

222
00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:55,760
Speaker 3: client's going to go in and recut every betting area

223
00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:58,480
Speaker 3: on their property. Now, again, every situation is different. So

224
00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:01,000
Speaker 3: if I'm a guy that has fifteen, twenty, maybe even

225
00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:04,440
Speaker 3: forty acres, you could do that, and you can do that, yeah, exactly,

226
00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:08,760
Speaker 3: and that's fine, But I could argue that you could

227
00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:10,640
Speaker 3: be a lot more efficient with your time having a

228
00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:12,640
Speaker 3: management plan right, and more productive as far as the

229
00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:16,080
Speaker 3: regeneration and the response that you see from the seed

230
00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:19,280
Speaker 3: bank and the current vegetation. So ultimately, what it comes

231
00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:22,600
Speaker 3: down to is before you create any form of disturbance.

232
00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:26,240
Speaker 3: You should be thinking two, three, five, ten years down

233
00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:28,600
Speaker 3: the road, what is my follow up response to that

234
00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:33,280
Speaker 3: to reset that area into early succession, which is going

235
00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:36,840
Speaker 3: to promote a lot more food value. Right But ultimately

236
00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:41,400
Speaker 3: or in addition to that, would be to govern the

237
00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:43,680
Speaker 3: response of the vegetation or what you're going to allow

238
00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:47,240
Speaker 3: to grow. So TSI, to really boil it down and

239
00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:50,600
Speaker 3: simplify it really for me how I explain it to clients, TSI.

240
00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:53,840
Speaker 3: The mindset you need to have with TSI is termination

241
00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:57,840
Speaker 3: or regeneration of what's growing there. And then am I

242
00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:03,679
Speaker 3: bringing in some added diversity to that location or am

243
00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:08,720
Speaker 3: I just waiting for the natural native setting to respond appropriately,

244
00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:11,440
Speaker 3: which you know, again, this might get in the weeds

245
00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:13,520
Speaker 3: a little bit more. But what we know more and

246
00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:15,520
Speaker 3: more now, what we're learning more and more now is

247
00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:18,160
Speaker 3: a lot of these invasive battles. It depends on the

248
00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:20,319
Speaker 3: type of species, but a lot of these invasive battles

249
00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:27,480
Speaker 3: are a result of soil at its core, the soil

250
00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:31,240
Speaker 3: makeup this. You know, house soil has evolved over time

251
00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:36,160
Speaker 3: from lack of management or previous management practices. For example,

252
00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:39,880
Speaker 3: a property I just came from old cattle pasture. Right,

253
00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:41,800
Speaker 3: So what happens when you have cattle on a pasture

254
00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:44,480
Speaker 3: for a long period of time is they're relatively selective

255
00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:47,320
Speaker 3: of what they graze, less selective of what they graze,

256
00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:49,400
Speaker 3: but more selective of what they browse. What happens to

257
00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:53,200
Speaker 3: most cattle pastures ends up being a sea of Eastern

258
00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:57,720
Speaker 3: red cedars, multi floor rows, honeysuckle locusts, yes, honey locus,

259
00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:00,560
Speaker 3: all those things that pop up that the the cold

260
00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,880
Speaker 3: that want to eat. So when you start to decrease

261
00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:07,720
Speaker 3: the species diversity or composition of vegetation on the property,

262
00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:11,200
Speaker 3: the soil structure starts to change. In addition to that,

263
00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:15,120
Speaker 3: you have cattle that are you know, conducive to ground compaction.

264
00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:18,800
Speaker 3: You know, especially if they're in a pasture under all

265
00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:22,120
Speaker 3: types of conditions and they're not rotated, there's kind of

266
00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:24,240
Speaker 3: let to do whatever they want to do. Right, So

267
00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:26,240
Speaker 3: there's all these things at place. So if you go

268
00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:29,120
Speaker 3: into a project and say, you know, another thing that

269
00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:31,360
Speaker 3: could move the needle quite a bit for someone, depending

270
00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:34,000
Speaker 3: on their situation, if they have decent timber, or maybe

271
00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:37,080
Speaker 3: the adjacent property just got logged. So there's some decent

272
00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:39,400
Speaker 3: brows that's going to be taking place there. But maybe

273
00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:41,880
Speaker 3: their property has more open area. They don't have a

274
00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:45,640
Speaker 3: timber project that they can even do, so maybe that property,

275
00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:48,160
Speaker 3: you know, moving the needle there would be increasing the

276
00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:51,160
Speaker 3: native ford production and open areas. But just going in

277
00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:54,280
Speaker 3: and killing off cool season grasses, you know, your seed

278
00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:57,880
Speaker 3: bank response is likely not going to be desirable because

279
00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:00,120
Speaker 3: a lot of things are suppressed or you know, have

280
00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:02,400
Speaker 3: been killed off over time. And even just going in

281
00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:07,320
Speaker 3: and throwing down seed, which is not cheap perennial native

282
00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:10,800
Speaker 3: seed is not cheap fantastic investment. Don't want to discourage

283
00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:13,760
Speaker 3: anyone there, but just throwing that down and expecting it

284
00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,840
Speaker 3: to do it's thing isn't always as straightforward either. Sometimes

285
00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:18,320
Speaker 3: it is, sometimes it isn't. But it's a roll of

286
00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:20,320
Speaker 3: a dice at a cost of three hundred to four

287
00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:23,840
Speaker 3: hundred dollars per acre for a diverse perennial fort mix. Right.

288
00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:27,280
Speaker 3: So when we look at that from that standpoint and

289
00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:30,480
Speaker 3: kind of start with the foundation, you know, again we're

290
00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:33,080
Speaker 3: looking at the soil type, we're looking at the soil

291
00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:37,080
Speaker 3: moisture content, the current species compositions. How much so it's

292
00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:39,600
Speaker 3: going to get when we open up the canopy. And

293
00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:40,880
Speaker 3: really at the end of the day, it just all

294
00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:42,720
Speaker 3: boils down to having that plan, like how do I

295
00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:45,080
Speaker 3: get ahead of this, you know, like whether it's timber

296
00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:48,640
Speaker 3: stand or it's prairie. As simple a thing as like,

297
00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:51,520
Speaker 3: before I go and plant this, what is going to

298
00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:54,480
Speaker 3: be my next round of controlled disturbance? And if it's

299
00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:56,520
Speaker 3: something like fire, which I would argue at the most

300
00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:59,480
Speaker 3: exactly so you know that's going to be the most efficient,

301
00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:02,920
Speaker 3: then it could be as simple as like, well, I

302
00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:04,760
Speaker 3: don't want to start managing that area unless I know

303
00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:06,400
Speaker 3: I have good access to it, So maybe I need

304
00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:08,640
Speaker 3: to put a road system in first, you know, And

305
00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:11,680
Speaker 3: that might not require a bulldozerund site. It might just

306
00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:15,160
Speaker 3: mean a weekend with a chainsaw and cutting a path

307
00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:17,600
Speaker 3: where you can follow up a year later with a

308
00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:21,000
Speaker 3: backpack leaf blower or drive a UTV through a certain area,

309
00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:23,000
Speaker 3: you know, to get access to the top of the

310
00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:25,120
Speaker 3: hill or the back corner of the property. Stuff like that.

311
00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:28,200
Speaker 3: Access is going to be We talk about this all time.

312
00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:31,240
Speaker 3: Right from a hunting perspective, access is so incredibly important.

313
00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:33,720
Speaker 3: From a management perspective, I would argue it's even more

314
00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:36,600
Speaker 3: important because if you're not accessing certain areas your property,

315
00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:39,400
Speaker 3: then you can't manage them, and not not efficiently. Right

316
00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:43,640
Speaker 3: if you're doing everything manually on the ground, piking back

317
00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:47,520
Speaker 3: and forth, doing all these things like young strapping dudes

318
00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:49,320
Speaker 3: like us can handle it, right, But then you hit

319
00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:51,760
Speaker 3: that certain point in your life or you can't or

320
00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:53,760
Speaker 3: you don't have enough time, and if it takes an

321
00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:55,600
Speaker 3: extra day or extra half a day to prep that,

322
00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:59,120
Speaker 3: then that project won't fall into a weekend project list

323
00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:02,240
Speaker 3: per se. Right, I kind of went down a tangent there,

324
00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:04,199
Speaker 3: but I think you kind of understand where I'm going.

325
00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:08,600
Speaker 3: There's no like straightforward, easy response or approach. But I

326
00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:11,880
Speaker 3: think the biggest thing is is thinking, like I want

327
00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:13,399
Speaker 3: to do this thing, but what's the next step to

328
00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:16,560
Speaker 3: maintain this thing. It's like I can I can go

329
00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:18,080
Speaker 3: buy a nice chunk of lamb, but if I can't

330
00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:20,399
Speaker 3: afford the taxes on it, how is that sustainable? Or

331
00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:23,359
Speaker 3: if I buy my truck and never get the oil

332
00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:25,800
Speaker 3: changed on it, like that's not sustainable either, Right, So

333
00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:29,280
Speaker 3: then your time investment, your monetary investment, starts to decline.

334
00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:31,880
Speaker 3: And then you look back and you're like, well, did

335
00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:35,200
Speaker 3: that really move the needle. Now on the other side

336
00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:39,680
Speaker 3: of that, you know, that's that's talking like long term mindset,

337
00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:42,359
Speaker 3: long term planning. Right. But if we back all the

338
00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:43,960
Speaker 3: way up and go all the way back to the

339
00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:46,080
Speaker 3: original question, like, what's that one thing I can do

340
00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:48,480
Speaker 3: now that's going to move the needle for me this fall?

341
00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:51,800
Speaker 3: Depending on your situation, you know, maybe you have a

342
00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:55,399
Speaker 3: property that has relatively poor habitat, but it's still holding

343
00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:59,000
Speaker 3: deer because deer are a generalist species. They need food

344
00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:02,359
Speaker 3: and cover. Food plus equals habitat in a lot of situations.

345
00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:05,520
Speaker 3: Right now, what we see is that this concept of

346
00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:09,040
Speaker 3: half atat right where you have cover here and food there,

347
00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:12,159
Speaker 3: and that holds deer on the property, it's not a sustainable,

348
00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:16,760
Speaker 3: long term, resilient ecosystem by any means. But if we're

349
00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:19,159
Speaker 3: talking right here, right now, what do I do to

350
00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:22,280
Speaker 3: move the needle? Or maybe maybe you're a person that

351
00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:24,880
Speaker 3: doesn't have control over the property to begin with, maybe

352
00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:28,520
Speaker 3: your permission base and you have you can do limited improvements,

353
00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:31,480
Speaker 3: but you're not in a position to be putting together

354
00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:35,080
Speaker 3: a twenty year management plan right and you have deer there.

355
00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:37,159
Speaker 3: I think that the primary thing to consider is if

356
00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:41,280
Speaker 3: you have deer currently or you know, probably not currently

357
00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:43,359
Speaker 3: if it's poor habitat, because it's probably not there in

358
00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:46,320
Speaker 3: February or March right now. But ultimately, if you if

359
00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:51,160
Speaker 3: you have mature buck activity or the quality of deer

360
00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:53,560
Speaker 3: that you're willing to put your tag on activity on

361
00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:56,399
Speaker 3: your property, right because everyone's goals are different. But if

362
00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:58,480
Speaker 3: those deer are there but you're not connecting with them,

363
00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:01,840
Speaker 3: then it might be you know, as simple, you know,

364
00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:05,240
Speaker 3: to move the needle is like dropping some trees or

365
00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:07,840
Speaker 3: hinging some trees to create a barrier. And that's where

366
00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:10,959
Speaker 3: like when it comes to management and hinge cutting specifically,

367
00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:14,760
Speaker 3: I love hinging trees to manage or to manipulate movement,

368
00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:17,760
Speaker 3: not necessarily to create food value. I don't want those

369
00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:19,439
Speaker 3: trees to stay alive. I just want to stay off

370
00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:21,600
Speaker 3: the ground so they don't rot, to create a natural

371
00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:24,520
Speaker 3: barrier that maintains for the next ten plus years. Right,

372
00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:27,119
Speaker 3: and in time that'll kind of fall apart two. But

373
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:28,800
Speaker 3: you can a lot of times condition deer to move

374
00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:32,280
Speaker 3: through certain areas. So like an example I can think of,

375
00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:37,400
Speaker 3: actually if you dial back two years ago, I probably

376
00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:39,720
Speaker 3: four years ago, I did a big timber stand improvement

377
00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:42,840
Speaker 3: cut on an area of our farm, and it moved

378
00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:44,560
Speaker 3: the needle for sure. You know, we had a logger in,

379
00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:47,160
Speaker 3: We took out some dead ash, we thin some hickories,

380
00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:50,040
Speaker 3: we released some oaks, turned into a nice betting area.

381
00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:52,240
Speaker 3: I hundred the fringe of that betting area a couple

382
00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:54,520
Speaker 3: of years after that, and we were already seeing pretty

383
00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:58,120
Speaker 3: dramatic improvements, dramatic increase in forage value in that location,

384
00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:02,719
Speaker 3: increase in cover holding deer, pretty straightforward. But what happened

385
00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:06,080
Speaker 3: is on stand I had my target book at fifty

386
00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:09,280
Speaker 3: five yards, couldn't get a shot right. Okay. So if

387
00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:11,840
Speaker 3: you're in that situation, and maybe you didn't do a

388
00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:16,399
Speaker 3: prior improvement, but that's a situation. You've got an area

389
00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:19,159
Speaker 3: that hunts well to a certain extent, but you have

390
00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:20,879
Speaker 3: a lot of close calls, or you just can't cross

391
00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:23,360
Speaker 3: paths with deer. They blow right through an area that's

392
00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:25,600
Speaker 3: where you can go in. And what I did, ultimately

393
00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:29,760
Speaker 3: was I created a mock scrape set up in one spot,

394
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:33,320
Speaker 3: and I felled some trees, some ironwood, some lower quality

395
00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:35,879
Speaker 3: trees in a different area to force the deer movement

396
00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:40,280
Speaker 3: around a certain you know, a barrier essentially right to

397
00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:42,720
Speaker 3: force them around. So now all the movement flowing through

398
00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:46,639
Speaker 3: there is within shot distance. Now when the deer there,

399
00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:49,720
Speaker 3: as long as I'm there at the right time, I'm

400
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:52,800
Speaker 3: set up for success. And that's a relatively quick project.

401
00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:55,400
Speaker 3: So again, every situation is a little different, and when

402
00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:57,119
Speaker 3: we analyze these properties, we want to look at it

403
00:20:57,200 --> 00:20:58,600
Speaker 3: that way as like, what can we do to move

404
00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:03,399
Speaker 3: the needle right now that there's an overhaul coming to

405
00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:06,240
Speaker 3: this property, But an overhaul doesn't happen in one season, right,

406
00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:08,000
Speaker 3: so how do we break that down? And then what

407
00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:10,760
Speaker 3: are the low hanging fruits? Is it adding a food plot?

408
00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:15,080
Speaker 3: You know, I was on a property yesterday and there

409
00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:18,679
Speaker 3: was multiple food plots throughout the property, you know, and

410
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:22,520
Speaker 3: on their map they had two previous consultants on the property,

411
00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:25,840
Speaker 3: so they had good plans, and looking at the map

412
00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:28,080
Speaker 3: everything made sense, Oh, you've got all these food plots there, Like,

413
00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:30,080
Speaker 3: how what do we need to change on the property.

414
00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:32,160
Speaker 3: And then walking the property, it's very apparent there are

415
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:35,480
Speaker 3: the food plots themselves were not great, Like the condition

416
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,840
Speaker 3: of the plots was not It wasn't anything that's going

417
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:42,480
Speaker 3: to be super super attractive to the deer specifically. I mean,

418
00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:46,440
Speaker 3: we could talk about that in a minute or later on, right,

419
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:50,000
Speaker 3: but ultimately the food plots weren't that great and the

420
00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:53,560
Speaker 3: surrounding habitat was terrible. So if you think that you're

421
00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:55,240
Speaker 3: going to pull deer into your property with just a

422
00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:58,040
Speaker 3: food plot, but you're not holding deer to begin with,

423
00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:01,360
Speaker 3: then that's not going to move the needle for you.

424
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:03,920
Speaker 3: But if you're holding to your and you put a

425
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:06,520
Speaker 3: food plot in the right location and it's an attractive

426
00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:09,160
Speaker 3: food source there, that can really move the needle, right.

427
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:11,440
Speaker 3: But it's not a long term thing either, because every

428
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:13,600
Speaker 3: year you're looking at going back in and redoing that

429
00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:16,040
Speaker 3: at some capacity or maintaining at some capacity.

430
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:20,280
Speaker 2: What's you know, for the end of March, first two

431
00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:23,879
Speaker 2: weeks of April, what is what is the window of

432
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:27,160
Speaker 2: TSI or what are time sensitive projects that are like, man,

433
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:28,720
Speaker 2: if you're going to do this and it's kind of

434
00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:31,840
Speaker 2: somewhat of a blanket statement for you know, the corn

435
00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:34,280
Speaker 2: belt or you like or even you can throw in Michigan,

436
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:39,639
Speaker 2: southern Minnesota, southern half of Wisconsin, what are either the

437
00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:41,800
Speaker 2: what's the window of TSI? And second question of that

438
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:44,320
Speaker 2: is what are time sensitive projects for the end of

439
00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:46,480
Speaker 2: March to the first two weeks of April.

440
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:47,520
Speaker 4: Like, if you're going to do this, you need to

441
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:48,240
Speaker 4: get it done.

442
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:52,439
Speaker 3: Well. This actually is not a great time to be

443
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:56,560
Speaker 3: doing some certain TSI projects. So I'd emphasize that if

444
00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:59,400
Speaker 3: you have a property that doesn't have a lot of

445
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:02,919
Speaker 3: invasive pressure, then you can do just about anything. You know,

446
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,480
Speaker 3: cutting trees. When you go back to what I was

447
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:08,919
Speaker 3: saying earlier, you know this this idea or decision you

448
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:12,640
Speaker 3: want to make as far as I want to regenerate

449
00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:18,080
Speaker 3: this specific species or terminate this specific species. Right right

450
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:21,160
Speaker 3: now is a great time for regeneration. When you cut

451
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:25,720
Speaker 3: a hardwood deciduous species, when it's dormant, it's got the

452
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:28,000
Speaker 3: bulk of its energy load in the root system. So

453
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:30,359
Speaker 3: when you cut it then it will regenerate with a

454
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:34,840
Speaker 3: lot more vigor when it comes out of dormancy. Inversely,

455
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:38,360
Speaker 3: right now, these trees are kind of starting to wake

456
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:40,120
Speaker 3: up a little. You know, also SAPs starting to flow.

457
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 3: Guys are tapping maple syrup. Like I said, I was

458
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,359
Speaker 3: just down in Iowa, things are already turning green. So

459
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:45,680
Speaker 3: on the other side of that, if I'm trying to

460
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:48,200
Speaker 3: terminate any given species. Now is not a good time

461
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:50,480
Speaker 3: to do that because if I try and cut and

462
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,920
Speaker 3: treat with a chemical and that vascular system is moving

463
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:57,280
Speaker 3: the energy or the sap from the roots up, it's

464
00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 3: going to push most of that herbicide out and you're

465
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:01,400
Speaker 3: going to do it lot of work, and your efficacy

466
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:04,399
Speaker 3: is going to be dramatically lower. So it's kind of

467
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 3: a I don't want to say, a wasted effort, but

468
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:08,160
Speaker 3: in many ways it can be because you might think

469
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:10,760
Speaker 3: you're doing this thing that's you know, one and done,

470
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:13,600
Speaker 3: and it's certainly not. So this specific time of the

471
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:16,320
Speaker 3: year I would avoid, you know, and you'll know if

472
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 3: you're cutting trees and they're sap pouring out of them

473
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:20,720
Speaker 3: when you cut, then it's definitely not time to be

474
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:22,520
Speaker 3: cutting and treating anything. But if you're just trying to

475
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 3: cut to create instant cover structure on the ground with

476
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 3: that top, maybe feed the deer some buds right now,

477
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:29,760
Speaker 3: late in the winter and then set yourself up for

478
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 3: hardwood regeneration or you know, herbaceous growth that's going to

479
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:35,680
Speaker 3: come for getting the sunlight to the ground now is

480
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:37,280
Speaker 3: definitely a good time to do that. That's what I

481
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:40,240
Speaker 3: would be focusing on more than anything. You know. Right now,

482
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 3: we're we're what I'm personally doing across client properties or

483
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 3: what my clients what I have them doing, is we've

484
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 3: done a lot of the betting area cuts and stuff already,

485
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:50,080
Speaker 3: so we're kind of working our way back now and

486
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,879
Speaker 3: we're we're finalizing and setting ourselves up for the food

487
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 3: plot side of things, where we're feathering edges, improving the

488
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,720
Speaker 3: edge structure. Maybe we're prepping for tree plantings where we're

489
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,200
Speaker 3: trying to peelback some of the non desirables and plug

490
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 3: in some you know, more specific attraction based species in there.

491
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:11,080
Speaker 3: And then we'll segue into pulling soil samples, prepping for

492
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:12,680
Speaker 3: food plots and so on and so forth.

493
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:14,879
Speaker 4: A lot to it, man, there's a lot, a lot

494
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 4: of it never happens.

495
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 3: And that's the thing. It's like, it's hard to be like,

496
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:19,440
Speaker 3: just go do this one thing, It's going to solve

497
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:21,680
Speaker 3: all your problems, right, It's just that's just not the reality.

498
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 3: In most situations, most properties have that one thing that

499
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 3: can exponentially move the needle forward. But there's, like I said,

500
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 3: with the complexities that are out there, it's not easy

501
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:36,040
Speaker 3: to say, like this is that one cookie cutter plan

502
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 3: or idea that you should overlay on your property and

503
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 3: expect to see the same results that that guy saw

504
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 3: or that guy saw.

505
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:58,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, yeah, I completely agree with that. And

506
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 2: I've been on a bunch of different farms, and it's

507
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:06,119
Speaker 2: sometimes you can almost categorize farms to where depending on

508
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 2: I mean most of most of where I'm at, obviously Illinois.

509
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 2: So it's like I can kind of categorize different farms

510
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 2: here in Illinois. So let's run through a scenario for

511
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 2: someone that they did not have a great season. You know,

512
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:23,399
Speaker 2: they had night pictures of bucks, they didn't find really

513
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 2: any many sheds. Sign was pretty lackluster. But you know

514
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 2: during peak rut you had just enough hope and excitement

515
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:36,160
Speaker 2: to keep you out there. But it's like looking inversely, like, man,

516
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 2: you know, something has to change if I want to

517
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 2: increase my odds of success. So in that scenario, I'm

518
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 2: picturing average blow average habitat. You know the field, you know,

519
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,200
Speaker 2: like there's ag ground nearby, but you know there's really

520
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 2: not enough room to have a true destination food source.

521
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,400
Speaker 2: I mean with something like that, is it an uphill

522
00:26:56,440 --> 00:27:00,399
Speaker 2: battle that can that's worth hiking up the hill scenario

523
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 2: and hopefully that's enough context where you can picture a

524
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 2: farm like that. I think realistically more farms than not

525
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 2: fall into that category if it's not strictly managed.

526
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, one hundred percent. You know, I would go back

527
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 3: to Now, this is just operating under the assumption that

528
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 3: someone has full control over their property, right, not necessarily

529
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,360
Speaker 3: like you said, maybe they don't have the space or

530
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:25,640
Speaker 3: or it does come down to the time and the budget, right.

531
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 3: You know. I talk about that food pyramid, and then

532
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:32,120
Speaker 3: directly related to that, I've got my time investment pyramid,

533
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 3: like where should you be sticking your time on your

534
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 3: property that's going to have the longest and the highest

535
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 3: ROI return on that investment. You know, when I have

536
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 3: my discussion with clients, a lot of them money is

537
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:48,119
Speaker 3: not the issue per se. It's the time, right, And

538
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 3: even if they're willing to hire things out, it's like,

539
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 3: you can only get so much done in a year,

540
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 3: So we want to look at all the different parameters there.

541
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 3: But if you have control over the property, every situation

542
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 3: is different. To be honest with you, I don't I

543
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:09,560
Speaker 3: almost rarely rarely promote destination style food plots on properties.

544
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:11,919
Speaker 3: If there's egg in the area, the ROI on it

545
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 3: just isn't there. It's it's just not so if you had,

546
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:16,399
Speaker 3: if you had, let's run this.

547
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 2: Okay, so someone has I'm gonna I'm gonna put I

548
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 2: did a podcast with doctor Bronzis Strickland and like the

549
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:25,120
Speaker 2: break even on a big food pot. What he discovered,

550
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,959
Speaker 2: I want to say it was either three or six acres.

551
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:29,960
Speaker 2: I think it was six acres. So Thomas, I have

552
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 2: six acres that I can do whatever the heck I

553
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:34,920
Speaker 2: want to do. You're not telling me to plant six

554
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 2: acres of a corn and bean rotation and leave it

555
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 2: for food. That's that's where you're getting at, because that's

556
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 2: kind of.

557
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 3: Yes it well, and again it's all relative. If there's

558
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 3: egg in the area, Okay.

559
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 2: Let me add a caveat there is agg in the area,

560
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 2: and you flip a coin. Whether they put anhydris on

561
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 2: it in November or if they work the field as

562
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 2: soon as they pick it, like sometimes they do it,

563
00:28:58,120 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 2: sometimes they don't.

564
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 4: So like you can't bank all that nearby at well.

565
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 3: And here's where I've what I've boiled it down to. Okay,

566
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 3: and there's and my journey is obviously different from a

567
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 3: lot of guys out there talking about this, Right, I'm

568
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 3: looking at things. I'm trying to look at things objectively

569
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 3: in every situation and not just say this worked here,

570
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 3: let's do this here and then ultimately, you know, I'm

571
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 3: looking at this from the long, long game perspective. Where

572
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:31,240
Speaker 3: has deer habitat come in the last ten years, right?

573
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 3: I think I think it's been a great thing in

574
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 3: the industry in general as far as like bringing a

575
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 3: lot more awareness to improving habitat for deer. But I

576
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 3: also think that we've gone off the path a long

577
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 3: ways when we start to consider corn and beans as

578
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 3: deer habitat period.

579
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 4: Dear food, dear food.

580
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 3: It's deer food. Yes, it's deer food, but even the

581
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:51,720
Speaker 3: ROI on that and the cost of that. You know what,

582
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 3: from a holistic standpoint, right, I'm a holistic land manager,

583
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 3: And I say that in the sense that I emphasize

584
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 3: and and everything I do is based on managing systems

585
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 3: and not individual species or individual plants. Where do deer

586
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 3: fit into the system that they're a part of, right,

587
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 3: Deer they manage the vegetation on the landscape. They cycle

588
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 3: nutrients through the landscape, so they are definitely part of

589
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 3: the system. Where do hunters fit into that part of

590
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 3: the system. We manage the deer and we manage the landscape, right,

591
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 3: so we have to figure out this balance as far

592
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 3: as like what problems are being caused upstream, what can

593
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 3: we do to mitigate those, and how do we stop

594
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 3: causing problems downstream?

595
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 2: Right, So let's let's talk about where maybe we have

596
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 2: gotten off off track. And I'm giving you the opportunity

597
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 2: to say, like, hey, maybe we should think twice about

598
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 2: this management practice or that management practice, or like everything

599
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 2: you're saying is long term, right, And I think inherently

600
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 2: to a fault, deer hunters are one year minded next year, Yes,

601
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 2: next year, you got any good bucks hunt later this year?

602
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 2: And like that's you know, that is to a fault

603
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 2: deer hunters well, and.

604
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 3: I I yes, And I don't want to pretend like

605
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 3: I'm like that much different from everybody else out there.

606
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:10,440
Speaker 4: Right.

607
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 3: I used to say that I I used to remember

608
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:17,720
Speaker 3: my past based on the rock albums that were released

609
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 3: by the artists I followed like back through you know,

610
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 3: back you know, people listening to probably even know what

611
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 3: CDs are anymore, right, but that I used to think

612
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 3: about that and now it's it's on the target book

613
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 3: that I pursued, right, I can think all of about

614
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 3: I remember, like my wife was like, what year did

615
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 3: we start eating? I was like two thousand and eight.

616
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 3: I can tell you exactly when I started dating. How

617
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 3: do you remember that? Because I remember the deer that

618
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 3: I didn't kill, the day that I didn't go hunt

619
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 3: to go meet you at college and go out to dinner.

620
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 3: I was like, I remember that deer played this day, right,

621
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 3: So I'm in the same boat, and you know, to

622
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 3: back up on it again. I think that our biggest issue,

623
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 3: the biggest issue is that we have we're trying to follow,

624
00:31:57,880 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 3: you know, and I don't want to like beat the

625
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 3: food plot horse to death, right, but with food plots

626
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,600
Speaker 3: and now it's kind of starting to extend into habitat

627
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 3: management as a whole. We're trying to follow this mindset

628
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 3: or this conventional management mindset and mirror conventional agriculture. Right,

629
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 3: And if you take a step back from that, there's

630
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 3: nothing really great about how that's how that's helped our country,

631
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 3: how it's helped our environment. All these things. Right, the

632
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 3: only benefit from conventional agriculture is it's efficient in the

633
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 3: sense that you put so much in, you get so

634
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 3: much back out. But it's failing us as a society

635
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 3: as a whole. Right, we're not producing the healthiest foods.

636
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 3: We've got the highest disease rates we've ever had as

637
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 3: a country. Our healthcare costs are through the roof. And

638
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 3: if we turn around, we take that same model and

639
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 3: now we're employing it to farm for deer, create deer food.

640
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 3: Where do we sit right now? We've got the sickest

641
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 3: deer herds we've ever had in this country. In some

642
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 3: areas there's way less deer. In other areas there's way

643
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 3: too many deer. But we're setting ourselves up for this

644
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,800
Speaker 3: long term failure because our ecosystem resilient and see is

645
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 3: at an all time low because of the biodiversity. So

646
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 3: to back up to the question the conversation with Bronson,

647
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 3: the food plot size and stuff like that. Where I've

648
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 3: shifted over the last five or six years is these

649
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 3: bigger destination food plots. If we're planting a ton of food,

650
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 3: a cultivated food source to feed deer right out of

651
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 3: the gate, our mindset is failing us. We shouldn't be

652
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 3: cultivating an insane amount of food to feed deer per se. Now,

653
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 3: having a supplemental food source post rut early winter into

654
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 3: the winter, I think is advantageous. Ultimately, I always refer

655
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 3: to them as seasonally attractive food sources. So what can

656
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 3: I plant there that's going to hold ensure that deer

657
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 3: aren't leaving the property, especially during the hunting season, and

658
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 3: ultimately pull them into the most huntable or accessible areas

659
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 3: on the property so that I can keep pressure off

660
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 3: of the more sensitive areas. Right. I talk about this

661
00:33:57,680 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 3: all the time with clients. You know, ultimately we're scouting,

662
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 3: we're looking for or looking to create the most accessible

663
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 3: pinch points possible. There's two types of pinch points that

664
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:09,840
Speaker 3: we look for or look to create, and ultimately my

665
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 3: goal is to always to create some hybrid version of

666
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:14,799
Speaker 3: the two. We have a physical resistance type pinch point,

667
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,360
Speaker 3: like I alluded to earlier. Maybe you're dropping some trees,

668
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 3: maybe it's a river crossing, you know, a hole in

669
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:24,480
Speaker 3: the fence, Topography, ravines, all these things that restrict deer

670
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 3: movement on the landscape and choke deer down. If you

671
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:29,359
Speaker 3: go out and try and engineer a spot like that.

672
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:31,799
Speaker 3: It can go against you if you try and choke

673
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:33,840
Speaker 3: deer down too tight. So the other side of that

674
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:37,359
Speaker 3: is an attraction based pinch point we're drawing deer in.

675
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:39,279
Speaker 3: It can be a food plot, it can be a

676
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 3: water hole, some sort of limited resource. Well, when we

677
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 3: hybridize a pinch point, it can go from either angle right.

678
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 3: So we hybridize that we want to choke deer movement

679
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:50,279
Speaker 3: down to a certain extent and then draw them in

680
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:51,960
Speaker 3: the rest of the way. You know, it's like kind

681
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:55,479
Speaker 3: of trying to get your parents to change their mind

682
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 3: on something. You have to kind of plant the seed

683
00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,360
Speaker 3: and influence it and ultimately has to be their decision.

684
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 3: If you try to get a mature buck to choke

685
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 3: down into a small gap, he'll do it, but not

686
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:06,719
Speaker 3: very consistently. I've watched it many times. So these deer

687
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:08,839
Speaker 3: getting they spots and get nervous, they back out, maybe

688
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 3: they go wide. You know, then you're out of the game.

689
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 3: So if you can choke them down to a certain

690
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:14,399
Speaker 3: extent draw them in the rest of the way, that's

691
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:17,319
Speaker 3: a beautiful thing. With food plots, we do this in

692
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 3: many different ways. Right, we can draw them into a

693
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 3: big area, but maybe we feather the edges and create barriers,

694
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:24,280
Speaker 3: force them to enter in one end or certain areas,

695
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:26,399
Speaker 3: and that makes that three or four acre food plot

696
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:29,359
Speaker 3: hunt like a quarter acre a half acre, and then

697
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 3: we know where to set up. But ultimately the issue

698
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:34,920
Speaker 3: that we see that I see more and more is

699
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 3: this mindset of planting more food for deer that's annual

700
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:43,839
Speaker 3: food versus perennial food. So there's a concept we talk

701
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,440
Speaker 3: about frequently that is permanence, right, Like, what's something you

702
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:48,319
Speaker 3: can put down that's going to be more permanent on

703
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 3: the landscape. Now, nothing's truly permanent, right because everything's evolving

704
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:54,839
Speaker 3: and changing, But what's something that's going to last more

705
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:57,800
Speaker 3: perennial type system? So what I've done a lot the

706
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,160
Speaker 3: last couple of years and all the designs I drop, well,

707
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 3: we've shrunk down these six acre food plots and stacked

708
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:08,560
Speaker 3: our food plot create a system to stack our food

709
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:12,360
Speaker 3: in one area that ultimately has a lower footprint, a

710
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:15,360
Speaker 3: smaller footprint. So instead of planting four acres of food,

711
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:18,839
Speaker 3: because let's be realistic, most of those big destination food

712
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 3: plots have to be four acres because the browse pressure

713
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:24,239
Speaker 3: is so high on them that if you want to

714
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 3: get one or two acres of standing beans to last

715
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:28,759
Speaker 3: through the hunting season, you have to start out with

716
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 3: four acres. Okay, So what is the cost of that

717
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,480
Speaker 3: management efficiency? What is the cost of that? I can

718
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:37,800
Speaker 3: tell you the exact cost of that three hundred and

719
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:40,840
Speaker 3: fifty to four hundred and fifty dollars per acre probably

720
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:43,759
Speaker 3: on average for beans. When you start talking about seed cost,

721
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:48,759
Speaker 3: fertilizer costs, chemical costs, right, ye, Corns even worse. Four

722
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 3: hundred to seven dollars hundred dollars per acre.

723
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:53,359
Speaker 2: Probably right, I mean, yeah, depending, you could probably make

724
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:55,719
Speaker 2: an argument that's seven, seven, eight or nine hundred dollars

725
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 2: depending on the chemicals and treatments and fertilizer.

726
00:36:58,600 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 4: And corns are pretty hunker crop.

727
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:04,239
Speaker 3: And to anyone listening that's planted corn the last two

728
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 3: years and like that didn't cost me that much? Just wait,

729
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 3: just wait, because getting corn pulls a lot of stuff

730
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 3: out of the soil and doesn't put a whole lot

731
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:15,279
Speaker 3: back in the soil, right, And that's a whole other

732
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 3: thing too. So let's actually talk about the cost of

733
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 3: a food plot, like that on average, you know, depending

734
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 3: on your planting practices, but on average, corn and beans

735
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:29,280
Speaker 3: are responsible for about two to ten tons per acre

736
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:31,919
Speaker 3: of top soil loss on an annual basis. Just by

737
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 3: trying to force a monoculture that doesn't protect the soil

738
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 3: between the ropes. You lose a lot to wind erosion.

739
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:39,799
Speaker 3: You lose a lot to water erosion. Where does that

740
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:43,240
Speaker 3: end up? Right? That ends up silting in these ponds

741
00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 3: that are catching runoff. On top of that, the chemicals

742
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:50,879
Speaker 3: that go into that, where do those end up? Right?

743
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:52,719
Speaker 3: Those end up in those ponds? They end up in

744
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:56,839
Speaker 3: the groundwater. Now take this another whole other level. What

745
00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 3: has what happens to those ponds? Right? Anyone who's listening

746
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:03,359
Speaker 3: that's dealing with or or terrified of the next year

747
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 3: ahead with EHD potential EHD outbreaks maybe took a huge

748
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:09,480
Speaker 3: hit last year. You know, hopefully the deer that survived

749
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 3: are immune to it now and not didn't just avoid

750
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:13,920
Speaker 3: getting bitten period, right, because you don't want two three

751
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 3: years of that in a row, right. One year sometimes

752
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:18,359
Speaker 3: is actually probably a blessing in disguise to help kind

753
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:21,400
Speaker 3: of reset things as much as it, you know, it

754
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 3: hurts but but ultimately where is that coming from? Right,

755
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:28,920
Speaker 3: What's this? What's the problem the root cause of that?

756
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:31,239
Speaker 3: When you look at the landscape, and I can argue

757
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:34,920
Speaker 3: again objectively analyzing these landscapes, being on many properties that

758
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 3: had EHD issues and seeing the weak links and all

759
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:41,240
Speaker 3: these properties, it comes down to biodiversity. So as simple

760
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:42,440
Speaker 3: a thing, and to go all the way back to

761
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:45,319
Speaker 3: the food plots and where my mindset is and the

762
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 3: strategies I employ, and this is the same thing that

763
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 3: we use to combat EHD, to combat CWD, to combat

764
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:56,600
Speaker 3: whatever the next nasty disease is. You know in the South,

765
00:38:56,640 --> 00:39:00,840
Speaker 3: I've got Southern clients that were break seen for impact

766
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:03,239
Speaker 3: with the New World screw worm if you if you've

767
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:05,360
Speaker 3: read anything on that, right, this is a potential issue

768
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:08,279
Speaker 3: coming down the pipe too. Fly lays an egg and

769
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 3: an open wound and basically that that worm eats that

770
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 3: deer alive. So there's there's things like that out there.

771
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:16,239
Speaker 3: It's you know, moving through the cattle industry. Why not.

772
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:19,319
Speaker 3: But anyways, the way that we combat that is by

773
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:23,719
Speaker 3: increasing native plant diversity on the landscape. TSI projects a

774
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:27,280
Speaker 3: lot of times can be overwhelming for people and harder

775
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:30,359
Speaker 3: to manage. And again I think that that's where most

776
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 3: people should be looking to move the needle. But if

777
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:36,279
Speaker 3: you do, and this is kind of our approach, if

778
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 3: you take that six acre destination food plot and shrink

779
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 3: it down to a super efficient two acre system, and

780
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:45,839
Speaker 3: then you take the remaining four acres and plant that

781
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:49,879
Speaker 3: to the HOXY native seed native perennial food plot mix, right,

782
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:53,320
Speaker 3: just throwing that out there, you know, a native food

783
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:55,279
Speaker 3: plot or native mix.

784
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:58,359
Speaker 2: So like for someone that's like, what what is that?

785
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 2: Why would I, you know, take up just food pot

786
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 2: acres for something that doesn't look really awesome like from

787
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:07,440
Speaker 2: the drone or you know, it's like the deer are

788
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:09,520
Speaker 2: just going to be selectively browsing in there where it's

789
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:11,440
Speaker 2: like most times probably don't even know what they're really

790
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:13,840
Speaker 2: eating because there's so many different things popping up. So

791
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:17,240
Speaker 2: what's in that that is truly attractive enough for someone

792
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 2: to give up acreage?

793
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:20,759
Speaker 3: Well, and that's the beauty of it, right, So we

794
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:23,640
Speaker 3: go back to habitat food plus cover eqals habitat. The

795
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:29,359
Speaker 3: beauty of native habitat hardwood regeneration native forbes is there's

796
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:32,920
Speaker 3: a huge amount of food value in there. The timing

797
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 3: of the year isn't the same as a food plot.

798
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:35,879
Speaker 2: Right.

799
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 3: That's why I say food plus are seasonally attractive food sources.

800
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 3: The food we'll use the native forbes for example, Right,

801
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 3: So pollinator planting, flowering forbes, like if you just whittle

802
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 3: it down, like if it's a wild flower and it flowers,

803
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:55,240
Speaker 3: it's a wild a weed that flowers that is most

804
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 3: likely a forb or legume. Those from a deer perspective,

805
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 3: directly to the deer offer a ton of food value,

806
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:08,360
Speaker 3: specifically during the growing season. So to start out, you

807
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:11,480
Speaker 3: have a perennial plant with a significantly deeper root system

808
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:17,240
Speaker 3: that has evolved over the last four million, four hundred

809
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:22,319
Speaker 3: million years plus, right to supply those animals with the

810
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:25,360
Speaker 3: right amount of nutrients that they need. Deep root system,

811
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 3: mining minerals, the fiber ratio in there with the protein,

812
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:31,640
Speaker 3: all these things are perfect for those deer. And that

813
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 3: might be one bite of that plant today and not

814
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 3: for a week. Right, But when you have a lot

815
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 3: of diversity thirty forty fifty different species growing in any

816
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 3: one given area, those deer in there every day throughout

817
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:44,239
Speaker 3: the growing season. And the reason I bring up that

818
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:47,880
Speaker 3: native food plot mix from hoxy is because there was

819
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:49,840
Speaker 3: a lot of thought put into that to engineer that

820
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:54,360
Speaker 3: to get the most desirable, most palatable deer species in there,

821
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 3: and that starts to lose its attractiveness and food value

822
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:03,239
Speaker 3: going into like mid October time frame, which sets you

823
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 3: up perfectly to pull deer into your food plots because

824
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:08,279
Speaker 3: they become more attractive, but at the same time, it

825
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:11,120
Speaker 3: still maintains the level of cover. So what we do

826
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:13,960
Speaker 3: on most of our properties now is we're shrinking down

827
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:16,719
Speaker 3: our food plots and we're filling that void on the

828
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:20,520
Speaker 3: outside with perennial food sources like that. So we're conditioning

829
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:22,520
Speaker 3: deer to flow in those areas, providing a lot of

830
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 3: you know, it's basically like creating a big feathered edge

831
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:28,799
Speaker 3: or buffered edge in these areas and as it transitions in,

832
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:31,480
Speaker 3: you know, and adding shrubs in there. If we want

833
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:33,840
Speaker 3: to create better lines of movement, we plant rows of shrubs.

834
00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 4: Stuff like that. How tall does that make skit?

835
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:38,920
Speaker 3: Most of the time, you know, and again it's going

836
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:41,719
Speaker 3: to be dependent on the conditions, right, you know, the

837
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 3: soil type and whatnot. But most of the time, what

838
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:49,520
Speaker 3: we mean, there's oh much taller than that. Really, I

839
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:51,759
Speaker 3: would say, you know, there's there's species in there, but

840
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:53,719
Speaker 3: there's a it's a wide variety. So you're you're gonna

841
00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:56,320
Speaker 3: have shorter statute species like some of your like prairie

842
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:58,040
Speaker 3: clovers and stuff like that that are only going to

843
00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:00,359
Speaker 3: get a foot or too tall, but and you're going

844
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 3: to work your way up to like golden rods and

845
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:05,200
Speaker 3: asters and stuff like that that are going to be

846
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:07,560
Speaker 3: three to four feet tall. And then you're going to

847
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:09,560
Speaker 3: get up. You know, there's some grasses in there, some

848
00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:11,120
Speaker 3: extra structure and some cover.

849
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:12,319
Speaker 4: And grass in it.

850
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:15,560
Speaker 3: I think, yep, yep, you know, but ultimately you're going

851
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:17,719
Speaker 3: to get I mean there's things in there that are

852
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:20,600
Speaker 3: five six feet tall, depending on how established they are

853
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:23,040
Speaker 3: on the soil type. And why I love it is

854
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 3: because from a deer perspective, like the best deer cover

855
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:29,160
Speaker 3: out there, especially in a transition zone, is eye level

856
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 3: high on a deer. They can stand in it, they

857
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:33,360
Speaker 3: can feed, they feel safe and comfortable, and then you

858
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:35,240
Speaker 3: take a hunter and you put them at an elevated

859
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:37,440
Speaker 3: position even you know, like if I have a box

860
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:39,759
Speaker 3: line set up near a food plot like that, I

861
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:41,919
Speaker 3: like to keep them relatively low five six eight feet

862
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:44,399
Speaker 3: off the ground, not too high. But now you're looking

863
00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:46,000
Speaker 3: down into that so you can see everything. But the

864
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:49,200
Speaker 3: deer feels super secure and safe in there, right, But

865
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:52,800
Speaker 3: from a deer perspective, directly feeding on it huge advantage.

866
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 3: But that's not the point I'm trying to make here

867
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:57,879
Speaker 3: with with this whole system and the true cost of it. Right,

868
00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 3: So we go back to the disease mit again and

869
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:06,239
Speaker 3: managing a system as a whole. When we increase the

870
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 3: vegetation or the diversity of plant species on the property,

871
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 3: we increase the diversity of insects species on a property. Okay,

872
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:19,280
Speaker 3: when we do that, it's the same thing for deer.

873
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:22,040
Speaker 3: If we only plant food plots that are attractive in

874
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:24,960
Speaker 3: the fall, then we shouldn't expect to have deer on

875
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 3: the property all year long. Right, So if we increase

876
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:30,480
Speaker 3: our food look at that whole total food pyramid, have

877
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:32,640
Speaker 3: a lot of food sources. We condition deer to stand

878
00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:34,879
Speaker 3: on the property year round, or at least the bulk

879
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 3: of the year. Maybe they're coming and going, but they're

880
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 3: always anchored to that spot. The same thing goes when

881
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:42,600
Speaker 3: we look at insect diversity. If we have a lot

882
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 3: of insects on the property. Now we're anchoring and holding

883
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:52,440
Speaker 3: insectivores on the property. So our predatory insect population like

884
00:44:52,600 --> 00:45:00,000
Speaker 3: dragonflies and predatory wasps increases exponentially, Our bird population increases exponentially,

885
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:04,600
Speaker 3: our bat population increases exponentially. Why is that important Because

886
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 3: when Midsummer rolls around and the biting midge that spreads

887
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:11,880
Speaker 3: EHD works its way up from the south and creeps

888
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:15,160
Speaker 3: further and further north, bites a few deer, lays some

889
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:18,120
Speaker 3: eggs in the mud, waits for that next hatch. When

890
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:21,400
Speaker 3: that hatch takes place, if we have these predatory animals,

891
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:24,359
Speaker 3: these insectivores on the landscape, they clean up a hatch

892
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 3: really quickly, and maybe you lose one or two deer,

893
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:29,240
Speaker 3: but these flies aren't running rampant.

894
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:33,760
Speaker 4: It's mortality in another experience, yes.

895
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:35,279
Speaker 3: And then they go lay these eggs in the mud again,

896
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 3: and the next cycle is even worse. Right, So instead

897
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:40,640
Speaker 3: there's like one round and mostly it's gone. And we

898
00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:42,719
Speaker 3: were talking about this earlier, like on properties that have

899
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:47,240
Speaker 3: really good biodiversity, we don't have EHD issues, plain and simple.

900
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:50,880
Speaker 3: And it's a snowballing effect because you know the sediment

901
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:53,200
Speaker 3: top soil that ends up in these ponds. That's part

902
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:55,439
Speaker 3: of the problem. The chemicals that end up in these ponds,

903
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:58,320
Speaker 3: The chemicals we put on the landscape, they all affect

904
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:00,759
Speaker 3: other things. There's a lot of collateral damage with them.

905
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:03,279
Speaker 3: Now I'm not entirely anti chemical, right, It's just like

906
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:05,520
Speaker 3: what moves the needle. If we're just putting a lot

907
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:07,400
Speaker 3: of time and money and thinking that a two or

908
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:09,800
Speaker 3: four or six acre bean or cornfield, it's going to

909
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:13,040
Speaker 3: change the game for us, we're setting ourselves up for failure.

910
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:15,279
Speaker 3: And I can take that to a whole other level

911
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:19,279
Speaker 3: on that too, because if we're creating these plots like that,

912
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 3: specifically a standing grain that is super attractive in the wintertime, right,

913
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:30,799
Speaker 3: what we're doing is we're pulling deer and increasing the

914
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 3: concentration of deer on the landscape during the time of

915
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:37,879
Speaker 3: year where conditions are at their worst, the resources are

916
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:40,839
Speaker 3: at their lowest point in the season. So it's easy

917
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:44,839
Speaker 3: from a deer manager standpoint to be like this is awesome, right,

918
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:47,360
Speaker 3: you know, and there's consultants out there to talk like this,

919
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:49,640
Speaker 3: you want a big food plot because you want to

920
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:52,520
Speaker 3: pull deer in from all around. Late in the season. Well,

921
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:56,040
Speaker 3: if you're in an area that has CWD, do you

922
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:59,200
Speaker 3: want a high concentration of deer on your property during

923
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:01,600
Speaker 3: the winter. And I'm sure there's people out there right

924
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:07,480
Speaker 3: now rolling their eyes not real things. Yes, And now

925
00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:11,399
Speaker 3: I'm speaking from the perspective of someone who has dead

926
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:14,400
Speaker 3: deer on their farm every year from CWD. Okay, So

927
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:17,680
Speaker 3: I think it's also important to understand, like, if there's

928
00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:20,200
Speaker 3: people out there that are trying to pooh pooh the

929
00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:24,239
Speaker 3: threat of CWD, if they're not directly dealing with it

930
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 3: in their scenario or on a client property, then they

931
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:29,160
Speaker 3: shouldn't be talking about it, plain and simple. That's my

932
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:32,560
Speaker 3: perspective right now. I'm not in the mindset of the

933
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:36,880
Speaker 3: sky is falling, right, you know, I don't do anything

934
00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:39,480
Speaker 3: any differently, to be honest with you, for CWD, we

935
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:42,640
Speaker 3: still need really good habitat management. Why because it keeps

936
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:45,960
Speaker 3: deer spread out and keeps them healthy. You know, it's

937
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:50,080
Speaker 3: the diversity of the diet, the diversity of the nutrition

938
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:52,239
Speaker 3: that they receive throughout the whole year, and the consistency

939
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:55,440
Speaker 3: of it that's going to keep them healthy. With that

940
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 3: habitat comes the balance in that system. So we're mitigating

941
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:04,479
Speaker 3: things not just the EHD spreading, biting midges, but things

942
00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:08,719
Speaker 3: that increase pressure on deer, mosquitoes, biting flies, ticks, all

943
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:11,160
Speaker 3: these things cause problems for deer that can all be

944
00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:14,600
Speaker 3: mitigated by increasing the biodiversity and having more predators on

945
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:18,399
Speaker 3: the landscape that consume these pests. And you know, these

946
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:23,200
Speaker 3: these these uh parasites. That's as kind of drew blank,

947
00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:28,960
Speaker 3: these parasitic animals, right, but ultimately with c TOWD in general,

948
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:31,399
Speaker 3: like keeping those deer spread out is a big part

949
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:33,920
Speaker 3: of it. But that's not even the whole issue that

950
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:36,800
Speaker 3: I've been seeing more and more and more across properties.

951
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:39,839
Speaker 3: So again, sorry we've been going on a tangent here,

952
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:41,440
Speaker 3: but you back all the way up and like, if

953
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:44,160
Speaker 3: your goal is to improve your property for the long term,

954
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:45,719
Speaker 3: and this is all is my goal of clients, is

955
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:49,400
Speaker 3: what can we do that's going to be incrementally improving

956
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:52,600
Speaker 3: the property without this like two steps forward one step back,

957
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:54,680
Speaker 3: or or more so one step forward two steps back

958
00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:57,080
Speaker 3: is what we're seeing more often than not, these big

959
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:00,879
Speaker 3: standing grain attractive late season foods versus what they do

960
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:03,080
Speaker 3: is they pull in a lot of deer so that

961
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:06,000
Speaker 3: in and of itself is a problem. But something like corn,

962
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:09,560
Speaker 3: when you look at it from a nutritional standpoint, it's

963
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:13,760
Speaker 3: not very good deer food. It's a very fast burning carbohydrate.

964
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:17,200
Speaker 3: You know, deer ferment everything in their system, right, so

965
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:20,400
Speaker 3: it burns fast. But it's no different than people. So

966
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:21,960
Speaker 3: if we go eat a ton of carbs or a

967
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:24,000
Speaker 3: ton of sugary stuff, do you ever feel full? Or

968
00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:25,120
Speaker 3: you just want to eat more and you want to

969
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:27,480
Speaker 3: eat more? Right, Like you go out to eat dinner

970
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:30,120
Speaker 3: and you eat, you know, you go to a specifically

971
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:33,000
Speaker 3: in America because of our grains and how they're grown. Right,

972
00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:34,759
Speaker 3: you go out, like eat a bunch of pizza. You

973
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:36,400
Speaker 3: wake up the next morning you feel like garbage, but

974
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:38,200
Speaker 3: you're just hungry again. You just want to eat more

975
00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:40,560
Speaker 3: and more and more. You're never satiated. You have to

976
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:43,640
Speaker 3: have protein in your diet to feel satiation. And deer

977
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:47,080
Speaker 3: the same way. So if they go out and they

978
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:48,840
Speaker 3: eat a bunch of corn, you're pulling all these deer in.

979
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:52,400
Speaker 3: Now you've got all these deer from miles around that

980
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:54,560
Speaker 3: have pulled in, And what are they doing when they

981
00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:57,200
Speaker 3: go to bed down during the daytime? They're just mowing

982
00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:00,960
Speaker 3: down on your native habitat and setting you back. I

983
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:04,319
Speaker 3: mean this property that I was just on. When you

984
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:06,960
Speaker 3: want to highlight or emphasize the weak link on the property,

985
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:10,200
Speaker 3: you know, of the food sources that we grade properties on,

986
00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:13,720
Speaker 3: we look at cultivated food sources. We look at soft

987
00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:18,920
Speaker 3: mass production, hard mass production native forbes and brows, or

988
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:23,960
Speaker 3: native forbes and legumes, bramble and woody vines and woody brows,

989
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:27,480
Speaker 3: and then at the base of that is mosses, lichens

990
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:31,680
Speaker 3: and fungus. Okay, well, we greade all that and we

991
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:34,880
Speaker 3: explained to the client we're looking for those low points,

992
00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:37,800
Speaker 3: bottom hole in the bucket. This property I was on yesterday.

993
00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:40,600
Speaker 3: I brought the client over and it was explaining the

994
00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:43,320
Speaker 3: brows issue. But it can be deceiving because if you

995
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:45,840
Speaker 3: don't understand the species you're dealing with, it looks like

996
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:47,560
Speaker 3: there should be brows and it should be covered because

997
00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:49,319
Speaker 3: there was plenty of brush and a lot of areas

998
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:51,360
Speaker 3: in the property. But it was almost one hundred percent

999
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:55,160
Speaker 3: Japanese barbery, multi floor rows and northern prickly ash, which

1000
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:58,720
Speaker 3: is not an invasive but shows up with lack of fire,

1001
00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:03,080
Speaker 3: lack of management on this property the deer were eating.

1002
00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 3: Like if I had to guess feet feet worth of

1003
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:13,120
Speaker 3: the canes off of the multi floor rose, I mean

1004
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:15,600
Speaker 3: the response where multifloor rose was browsed down to about

1005
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:17,319
Speaker 3: a foot off the ground and the stem was like

1006
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:21,319
Speaker 3: a dime size, And the same with the bush hunt

1007
00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:25,879
Speaker 3: or the northern prickly ash. I was just like, if

1008
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:30,120
Speaker 3: deer eating this, that's a problem. Like that's a big problem, right,

1009
00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:32,840
Speaker 3: So it kind of explains that you know to move needles.

1010
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:35,319
Speaker 2: So ultimately that's a good spot check for people that

1011
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:36,880
Speaker 2: maybe the next time they're going out to the farm,

1012
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:39,520
Speaker 2: look at for the browse line and look for what

1013
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:42,640
Speaker 2: they're browsing. And if you see a row of cedars

1014
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:45,399
Speaker 2: on the edge of the field and you're like, okay,

1015
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:48,200
Speaker 2: well we have this is something needs to get addressed.

1016
00:51:48,280 --> 00:52:01,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, one hundred percent. But it's a snowballing effect. And

1017
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:03,520
Speaker 3: that's why I like, I don't you know my job

1018
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:06,480
Speaker 3: at least the way I actually had to clients, Right,

1019
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:09,400
Speaker 3: it's like we're going to take this thing. You know,

1020
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:11,560
Speaker 3: we kind of started this out or we alluded to

1021
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:13,440
Speaker 3: it many times, Like there's a lot, there's a lot

1022
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:15,120
Speaker 3: here to talk about. Right, So let's take this thing

1023
00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:19,040
Speaker 3: that's super complex and intimidating for people who intimidate that yes,

1024
00:52:19,239 --> 00:52:21,600
Speaker 3: is all new to them right now. Well, and instead

1025
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:24,120
Speaker 3: of trying to dumb it down to be like you know,

1026
00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:27,960
Speaker 3: and this is something that we were talking about earlier,

1027
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:31,200
Speaker 3: and I've heard it many times from different consultants, different foresters, like, well,

1028
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:34,560
Speaker 3: it's not worth the battle fighting these invasives. You're never

1029
00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:37,720
Speaker 3: going to get ahead of them. And that's just blatantly false.

1030
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:40,759
Speaker 3: It's blatantly false. If you have a good management plan

1031
00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:47,640
Speaker 3: starting with the physical set up, the physical structure and

1032
00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:51,719
Speaker 3: components of a property, and access included, vegetation included, right

1033
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:54,800
Speaker 3: starting there and working your way up, it's very very doable.

1034
00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:59,560
Speaker 3: It's very very doable. And if we ignore it in

1035
00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:03,240
Speaker 3: its entire and just say, let's simplify this, just focus

1036
00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:06,280
Speaker 3: on a food plot. That thick cover that's being produced

1037
00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:10,000
Speaker 3: from those invasives is advantageous to us because it holds deer.

1038
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:13,440
Speaker 3: It really does. Right, anach form of cover next to

1039
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:16,239
Speaker 3: any type of food will hold deer. I mean, you

1040
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:19,000
Speaker 3: can drive through I've got a client up in Duluth, Minnesota.

1041
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:21,799
Speaker 3: You drive through the Duluth Minnesota on any given day

1042
00:53:22,160 --> 00:53:25,560
Speaker 3: and there's bucks bedded down behind wood panel fences in

1043
00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:30,040
Speaker 3: people's backyards and they're feeding on bird feeders and introduced

1044
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:33,759
Speaker 3: alien shrubs in their yard. Is that good deer habitat right?

1045
00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:38,200
Speaker 3: Not really, it holds deer. Point being is we don't

1046
00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:40,480
Speaker 3: want to oversimplify things to the point where it's just

1047
00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:43,800
Speaker 3: like cookie cutter, buy this, do that. We want to

1048
00:53:43,840 --> 00:53:46,200
Speaker 3: take this complex thing and boil it down. And I

1049
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:48,040
Speaker 3: do think at the end of the day, it's pretty simplistic,

1050
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:52,040
Speaker 3: just like focus on native diversity and then the species types.

1051
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:54,560
Speaker 3: You know, basically the amount of structure and cover that

1052
00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:56,319
Speaker 3: you're going to produce in any given area of your

1053
00:53:56,360 --> 00:53:58,359
Speaker 3: landscape is going to be based on the species and

1054
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:02,319
Speaker 3: the disturbance or the return interval of the disturbance. Right.

1055
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:05,520
Speaker 3: So the more frequently you disturb it with good management,

1056
00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:08,239
Speaker 3: you know, I say that because you can disturb and

1057
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:09,520
Speaker 3: everything can turn into grass.

1058
00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:09,839
Speaker 4: Right.

1059
00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:12,719
Speaker 3: But the more frequently you disturb, generally speaking, the more

1060
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:15,480
Speaker 3: food value that location is going to potentially have. So,

1061
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:17,680
Speaker 3: like food plots fit right in that same equation. If

1062
00:54:17,719 --> 00:54:19,520
Speaker 3: I'm doing an annual food plot, I mean there once

1063
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:21,040
Speaker 3: a year, maybe twice a year doing a couple of

1064
00:54:21,080 --> 00:54:24,279
Speaker 3: things for that provides pretty good food value, but it's

1065
00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:27,879
Speaker 3: very narrow in that timeline versus like a timber stand

1066
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:30,040
Speaker 3: improvement where maybe we go in and reset with fire.

1067
00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:32,480
Speaker 3: Maybe you can't run fire through there, so you do

1068
00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:35,160
Speaker 3: have to do some chainsaw, bring a maulter in, brushog

1069
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:38,319
Speaker 3: it off during certain times of the year. That you know,

1070
00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:41,279
Speaker 3: something you do every three to five eight years. You know,

1071
00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:44,800
Speaker 3: it just depends on the growing conditions, but that resets things,

1072
00:54:45,200 --> 00:54:48,359
Speaker 3: gets back to early succession, and that's how we kind

1073
00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:51,400
Speaker 3: of govern the amount of structure versus food. But ultimately

1074
00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:54,040
Speaker 3: we want native habitat because it provides food and cover together,

1075
00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:56,320
Speaker 3: which is truly what habitat is. At the end of

1076
00:54:56,360 --> 00:54:56,640
Speaker 3: the day.

1077
00:54:58,000 --> 00:54:59,759
Speaker 2: One question that we'll go to a quick rapid fire

1078
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:03,800
Speaker 2: here more of a more of a request than a question.

1079
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:08,000
Speaker 2: Give these folks right now a sense of words of

1080
00:55:08,080 --> 00:55:10,120
Speaker 2: encouragement of like, because when the people hear this, like,

1081
00:55:10,719 --> 00:55:12,600
Speaker 2: so you're telling me I have to do more than

1082
00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:16,359
Speaker 2: just do my fall food pot to really be a

1083
00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:21,720
Speaker 2: true advocate for the for the landscape. And to your point,

1084
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:24,600
Speaker 2: like the farms have really good habitat. They typically seem

1085
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:26,640
Speaker 2: to be more resilient to EHD than the ones that

1086
00:55:26,680 --> 00:55:29,839
Speaker 2: have been degraded. So give a word of encouragement. This

1087
00:55:29,920 --> 00:55:33,239
Speaker 2: effort is worthwhile because for a lot of people, they're

1088
00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:35,000
Speaker 2: gonna have to go down a wormhole and start learning

1089
00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:37,239
Speaker 2: a lot of different skill sets, which I like, I

1090
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:38,319
Speaker 2: get excited about that.

1091
00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:44,160
Speaker 3: What do you say to them, Well, you know, there's

1092
00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:49,200
Speaker 3: an evolution of a hunter, right, we probably talked about

1093
00:55:49,239 --> 00:55:51,480
Speaker 3: it before, I know, I know for sure Mark has

1094
00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:54,560
Speaker 3: talked about it on this podcast. Right, there's hunters go

1095
00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:58,120
Speaker 3: through this evolution where you know, they're just trying to

1096
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:00,200
Speaker 3: get closer to deer and they're trying to kill deer

1097
00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:02,480
Speaker 3: and then trying to kill a specific deer. But ultimately,

1098
00:56:02,520 --> 00:56:04,719
Speaker 3: as land managers we go through this evolution. I see

1099
00:56:04,719 --> 00:56:06,759
Speaker 3: this with my own clients. You get to a point

1100
00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:11,040
Speaker 3: where the enjoyment, the bulk of the enjoyment comes from

1101
00:56:11,920 --> 00:56:14,480
Speaker 3: working the land at some level or some capacity, right,

1102
00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:16,000
Speaker 3: And that could be a small thing, and that's where

1103
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:19,200
Speaker 3: I you know, food plots don't generally move the needle,

1104
00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:21,560
Speaker 3: but I understand it. It's kind of a gateway drug

1105
00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:24,960
Speaker 3: into land management, right, Yeah, because it's like you do

1106
00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:27,200
Speaker 3: this thing and if things go right and you have

1107
00:56:27,239 --> 00:56:29,920
Speaker 3: a good plan or a decent understanding, And that's where

1108
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:32,120
Speaker 3: I would argue, like having a better understanding allows you

1109
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:34,239
Speaker 3: to be more flexible and adjust your plan versus just

1110
00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:36,360
Speaker 3: like this cookie cutter chain of events that we follow

1111
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:39,440
Speaker 3: and pray for rain and hope it works right. But ultimately,

1112
00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:45,799
Speaker 3: if you're in this and you're enjoying it, you start

1113
00:56:45,840 --> 00:56:48,240
Speaker 3: to get to this mindset where you're trying to build

1114
00:56:48,239 --> 00:56:51,560
Speaker 3: something that's truly long term. And I ask my clients

1115
00:56:51,560 --> 00:56:53,720
Speaker 3: straight up every time, like is this a long term

1116
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:57,480
Speaker 3: legacy type property or is this you know, maybe it

1117
00:56:57,520 --> 00:56:59,200
Speaker 3: is a least property, or is this just like a

1118
00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:00,800
Speaker 3: here and now I want to make the most of

1119
00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:02,320
Speaker 3: it in the next five seasons. Maybe it's just a

1120
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:03,880
Speaker 3: land investment. I'm gonna flip it. I don't want to

1121
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:04,920
Speaker 3: put a lot of time and money into it, and

1122
00:57:04,920 --> 00:57:08,080
Speaker 3: I totally understand that too. But I think the biggest

1123
00:57:08,120 --> 00:57:10,480
Speaker 3: thing for people to think about or to focus on,

1124
00:57:10,760 --> 00:57:15,080
Speaker 3: is this concept of permanence or perennial systems, Like what

1125
00:57:15,120 --> 00:57:17,160
Speaker 3: can I invest my time and money in right now

1126
00:57:17,600 --> 00:57:19,360
Speaker 3: that's going to move the needle for me? Maybe it

1127
00:57:19,360 --> 00:57:21,919
Speaker 3: doesn't move it a ton this year, but maybe after

1128
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:25,400
Speaker 3: a couple of years of implementation and initial management, you know.

1129
00:57:25,440 --> 00:57:28,160
Speaker 3: So like the native native food plot blend, for example,

1130
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:30,840
Speaker 3: So let's let's prep for that. Let's plant it. The

1131
00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:33,480
Speaker 3: first year, we keep it mode knees to ankles, knee high,

1132
00:57:33,600 --> 00:57:36,600
Speaker 3: mot it down to ankle height. That reduces annual weed

1133
00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:39,360
Speaker 3: pressure stuff like that. The next year we don't do anything.

1134
00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:42,920
Speaker 3: By year three, it's like alive and rocking, right. So

1135
00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:45,560
Speaker 3: once we get that set up, then it's just you know,

1136
00:57:45,640 --> 00:57:47,800
Speaker 3: every few years we touch it either with fire or

1137
00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:52,000
Speaker 3: mow it, and we have a system there that's feeding

1138
00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:56,240
Speaker 3: and improving the resiliency and the quality of our whole system,

1139
00:57:57,080 --> 00:57:58,720
Speaker 3: but doesn't talk. It doesn't take any more time or

1140
00:57:58,720 --> 00:58:01,000
Speaker 3: money after that. So that's finally at a point where

1141
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:02,760
Speaker 3: like we've done this thing here. Now we can move

1142
00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:04,720
Speaker 3: away from it. Yes, we have to revisit it, right,

1143
00:58:04,720 --> 00:58:07,360
Speaker 3: we always have to maintain, but it's moved the needle

1144
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:10,520
Speaker 3: incrementally forward in a way that's not just like, well

1145
00:58:10,560 --> 00:58:12,919
Speaker 3: we got to do it all over again next year

1146
00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:16,760
Speaker 3: and all over again next year. So I really back

1147
00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:19,000
Speaker 3: to the food plot thing. I really emphasize with guys

1148
00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:24,800
Speaker 3: like building perennial systems to where you know, maybe something happens,

1149
00:58:25,240 --> 00:58:29,480
Speaker 3: business family, not enough time, not enough money. You could

1150
00:58:29,520 --> 00:58:31,400
Speaker 3: walk away from that for a year, and it's not

1151
00:58:31,440 --> 00:58:34,200
Speaker 3: going to change the dynamic of how your property hunts. Period.

1152
00:58:34,880 --> 00:58:36,600
Speaker 3: You know, a lot of my clients right now are

1153
00:58:36,640 --> 00:58:38,440
Speaker 3: in our generation. A lot of them are popping out

1154
00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:43,280
Speaker 3: babies left and right. They're starting businesses, changing businesses. You know,

1155
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:46,280
Speaker 3: they're doing all these things. And it's like the conversation

1156
00:58:46,280 --> 00:58:49,360
Speaker 3: I had with the client yesterday's like this, this is awesome,

1157
00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:52,160
Speaker 3: Like everything that you're telling me makes so much sense

1158
00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:54,440
Speaker 3: at this point, and they're a little bit disheartened from

1159
00:58:54,480 --> 00:58:57,120
Speaker 3: the fact that they wasted ten years from these other

1160
00:58:57,160 --> 00:58:59,360
Speaker 3: consulting plans that were just like a list of projects.

1161
00:58:59,440 --> 00:59:02,360
Speaker 3: Do these projects, you'll see the needle move. But ultimately

1162
00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:04,960
Speaker 3: he said it straight up. He's like, what we need

1163
00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:06,480
Speaker 3: to figure out is who's going to do the work

1164
00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:08,280
Speaker 3: and how are we going to pay for it? Right,

1165
00:59:08,280 --> 00:59:10,040
Speaker 3: And that's a whole other level of it too, and

1166
00:59:10,080 --> 00:59:11,440
Speaker 3: we can go down that rabbit hole. I mean, a

1167
00:59:11,480 --> 00:59:13,400
Speaker 3: big thing I do with these properties is we're looking

1168
00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:16,120
Speaker 3: for ways to create more cash flow on it outside

1169
00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:18,920
Speaker 3: of you know again like a project based income like

1170
00:59:19,040 --> 00:59:22,320
Speaker 3: a you know, logging project, or even the limited cash

1171
00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:26,320
Speaker 3: flow that comes from renting out crop land, right, you know,

1172
00:59:26,360 --> 00:59:28,680
Speaker 3: and and and you're a great a great advocate and

1173
00:59:29,080 --> 00:59:32,840
Speaker 3: educator on like the EQUIP and CRP programs. And that's

1174
00:59:32,840 --> 00:59:35,680
Speaker 3: the other beautiful thing of you know, and not to

1175
00:59:36,320 --> 00:59:39,560
Speaker 3: not to give them too much credit, but you know

1176
00:59:39,640 --> 00:59:43,200
Speaker 3: that that that perennial native food plot blend from HOXY

1177
00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:46,040
Speaker 3: falls into a pollinator planting for CRP. So if you're

1178
00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:48,480
Speaker 3: a guy that has row crop land that you want

1179
00:59:48,480 --> 00:59:50,800
Speaker 3: to improve habitat, you can get paid perak or to

1180
00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:52,920
Speaker 3: plant a perennial food plot for your deer. And it's

1181
00:59:52,920 --> 00:59:54,400
Speaker 3: a beautiful thing when you can pull it.

1182
00:59:54,440 --> 00:59:57,520
Speaker 4: General general continuous is open right now, so this.

1183
00:59:58,320 --> 01:00:01,360
Speaker 3: Yes, get in there. But ultimately it comes down to

1184
01:00:01,560 --> 01:00:04,600
Speaker 3: like thinking about you know, there's the short term things,

1185
01:00:04,600 --> 01:00:08,520
Speaker 3: there's long term things. You know, put this water hole in,

1186
01:00:08,680 --> 01:00:11,280
Speaker 3: do this thing, like how do you maintain it moving forward?

1187
01:00:12,040 --> 01:00:16,000
Speaker 3: But the mindset shift that comes with thinking long term

1188
01:00:16,400 --> 01:00:18,560
Speaker 3: as far as like where can I invest my time

1189
01:00:18,600 --> 01:00:21,320
Speaker 3: and my money Now that's going to set me up

1190
01:00:21,800 --> 01:00:25,080
Speaker 3: or more so maybe even set my children up for success, right,

1191
01:00:25,160 --> 01:00:27,520
Speaker 3: I think that's a big thing that we're we're overlooking

1192
01:00:27,560 --> 01:00:30,919
Speaker 3: more and more and more now is you know, we're

1193
01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:33,200
Speaker 3: just focused on how do we kill a deer this season?

1194
01:00:33,880 --> 01:00:37,120
Speaker 3: But if we, if any of us, take a step

1195
01:00:37,160 --> 01:00:41,560
Speaker 3: back and objectively analyze the current state of affairs, things

1196
01:00:41,600 --> 01:00:45,800
Speaker 3: are not getting better. They're not getting better, right, they

1197
01:00:45,840 --> 01:00:47,880
Speaker 3: are in the sense that, like the I do think

1198
01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:51,120
Speaker 3: that there is a mindset, mindset shift happening in the industry,

1199
01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:55,240
Speaker 3: pushing more on habitat beyond just food plods stuff like that.

1200
01:00:55,680 --> 01:00:59,320
Speaker 3: But where it stands right now, the current the conventional

1201
01:00:59,360 --> 01:01:02,160
Speaker 3: practices are being pushed and preached and promoted by some

1202
01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:05,000
Speaker 3: of the biggest voices in the industry have not been

1203
01:01:05,040 --> 01:01:07,240
Speaker 3: setting us up for success. And if you take a

1204
01:01:07,280 --> 01:01:11,600
Speaker 3: step back and look at those objectively and go, is

1205
01:01:11,640 --> 01:01:16,680
Speaker 3: that guy's mindset based on permanence or product sales? And

1206
01:01:16,720 --> 01:01:19,080
Speaker 3: that's where we fall into this trap, and myself included,

1207
01:01:19,120 --> 01:01:21,080
Speaker 3: I sell food plots seed to my clients for a living,

1208
01:01:21,440 --> 01:01:23,200
Speaker 3: and not not necessarily for a living. You know, it's

1209
01:01:23,200 --> 01:01:25,880
Speaker 3: a supplemental income, sure, but I'll be the first one

1210
01:01:25,920 --> 01:01:27,840
Speaker 3: to tell you, like we should cut your food plots

1211
01:01:27,840 --> 01:01:30,800
Speaker 3: in half and pay for this one time expense that

1212
01:01:30,880 --> 01:01:32,880
Speaker 3: you can set yourself up for that's going to increase

1213
01:01:32,920 --> 01:01:35,720
Speaker 3: the resiliency of your property across the board. You know,

1214
01:01:35,880 --> 01:01:37,600
Speaker 3: there's a lot of it there, and there's a lot

1215
01:01:37,600 --> 01:01:40,320
Speaker 3: of opportunity out there. But the mindset to go all

1216
01:01:40,320 --> 01:01:43,000
Speaker 3: the way back to the mindset of like invasives are here,

1217
01:01:43,200 --> 01:01:45,240
Speaker 3: they're not going anywhere, we just have to deal with

1218
01:01:45,280 --> 01:01:49,040
Speaker 3: them is complete bs. You know. Another example of that

1219
01:01:49,600 --> 01:01:53,360
Speaker 3: is read canary grass is another good one. For a

1220
01:01:53,400 --> 01:01:58,800
Speaker 3: long time, the conventional thinking there, even within like nrcs

1221
01:01:58,920 --> 01:02:01,160
Speaker 3: and some of these government agents, you can't get ahead

1222
01:02:01,160 --> 01:02:03,480
Speaker 3: of read canary grass. It just is what it is. Right. So,

1223
01:02:03,960 --> 01:02:06,760
Speaker 3: anyone that has a wetland area that has reed canary

1224
01:02:06,800 --> 01:02:08,439
Speaker 3: you know that provides a decent amount of cover during

1225
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:10,120
Speaker 3: part of the year and then mostly it's just lays

1226
01:02:10,120 --> 01:02:14,200
Speaker 3: out flat and zero flud value. Right. So we're actually

1227
01:02:15,320 --> 01:02:19,920
Speaker 3: working with HOXY on creating some wetland mixes. But I

1228
01:02:19,920 --> 01:02:21,440
Speaker 3: bring this up is I want to just tell people like,

1229
01:02:21,480 --> 01:02:24,920
Speaker 3: first and foremost, there is a very effective approach to

1230
01:02:25,040 --> 01:02:29,600
Speaker 3: mitigating read canary grass. And secondly, when you look at

1231
01:02:29,800 --> 01:02:35,040
Speaker 3: ecosystems and their potential productivity. We rank things on a

1232
01:02:35,080 --> 01:02:39,600
Speaker 3: parameter referred to as net primary productivity, how much dry

1233
01:02:39,680 --> 01:02:44,800
Speaker 3: matter or forage production is produced with any specific habitat type.

1234
01:02:45,040 --> 01:02:47,560
Speaker 3: And when you look at different habitat types and what

1235
01:02:47,720 --> 01:02:52,560
Speaker 3: is the most efficient or the most productive. Water is

1236
01:02:53,160 --> 01:02:56,320
Speaker 3: the number one nutrient there. So the wetter the habitat type,

1237
01:02:56,360 --> 01:02:58,880
Speaker 3: the higher the net primary productivity. So when you have

1238
01:02:58,880 --> 01:03:01,640
Speaker 3: a wetland area on your proper to just especially and

1239
01:03:01,800 --> 01:03:03,160
Speaker 3: I'm thinking of this because I have a call count

1240
01:03:03,200 --> 01:03:05,320
Speaker 3: up here in an hour with a client that fifty

1241
01:03:05,320 --> 01:03:07,840
Speaker 3: percent of their property is a wetland area all recinary

1242
01:03:07,840 --> 01:03:08,840
Speaker 3: grass and.

1243
01:03:08,880 --> 01:03:12,760
Speaker 2: The trees, like is there like maples, cottonwoods, bastwood trees or.

1244
01:03:12,720 --> 01:03:14,240
Speaker 3: Is it around some of the edges.

1245
01:03:14,320 --> 01:03:14,520
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1246
01:03:14,640 --> 01:03:16,800
Speaker 4: Other than that, it's like a mat of reacan area

1247
01:03:16,840 --> 01:03:17,120
Speaker 4: right now.

1248
01:03:17,080 --> 01:03:21,000
Speaker 3: And almost completely flat. The other the property rolls into

1249
01:03:21,040 --> 01:03:25,680
Speaker 3: this like really cool like ungulated topography with some little

1250
01:03:25,720 --> 01:03:27,640
Speaker 3: peaks and ridges and stuff like that. So it sets

1251
01:03:27,720 --> 01:03:30,400
Speaker 3: up really well. It's like you got food. You could

1252
01:03:30,440 --> 01:03:31,760
Speaker 3: have a lot of food in the swamp and a

1253
01:03:31,800 --> 01:03:33,920
Speaker 3: lot of betting up here, and even add betting structure

1254
01:03:33,920 --> 01:03:35,520
Speaker 3: and stuff in that swampy area. You know, it's not

1255
01:03:35,600 --> 01:03:39,000
Speaker 3: like a true, true wetland. It's more like seasonally wet. Right,

1256
01:03:39,160 --> 01:03:40,880
Speaker 3: it's wet enough that it's choked out a lot of stuff.

1257
01:03:40,880 --> 01:03:43,800
Speaker 3: But recnary is thrived, is what it is. But you know,

1258
01:03:43,840 --> 01:03:49,560
Speaker 3: something like that from a productivity standpoint, has the potential

1259
01:03:50,240 --> 01:03:53,440
Speaker 3: to not only increase you know, dramatic amount of biodiversity

1260
01:03:53,480 --> 01:03:57,320
Speaker 3: on the property, which creates resiliency, but ultimately feed your

1261
01:03:57,400 --> 01:03:59,880
Speaker 3: deer an insane amount. So you don't need to have

1262
01:04:00,720 --> 01:04:03,360
Speaker 3: five acres of alfalfa on your property to feed the

1263
01:04:03,760 --> 01:04:05,880
Speaker 3: same tonnage to those deer. And at the same time,

1264
01:04:05,920 --> 01:04:07,880
Speaker 3: it keeps them all spread out throughout the whole year,

1265
01:04:07,960 --> 01:04:10,400
Speaker 3: not concentrated around those only food sources on the property.

1266
01:04:10,600 --> 01:04:13,320
Speaker 2: Real quick, for someone has freak canary, what is the book?

1267
01:04:13,760 --> 01:04:15,600
Speaker 2: As fast as possible, I want to be respectful of

1268
01:04:15,600 --> 01:04:17,200
Speaker 2: your time. What's the quickest way to get rid of

1269
01:04:17,200 --> 01:04:18,360
Speaker 2: it again?

1270
01:04:18,640 --> 01:04:22,320
Speaker 3: Or you've got to be thinking management. So first and foremost,

1271
01:04:22,520 --> 01:04:25,120
Speaker 3: you gotta if you can burn. If you can't burn,

1272
01:04:25,120 --> 01:04:26,520
Speaker 3: you got to figure out a way to create a

1273
01:04:26,520 --> 01:04:28,720
Speaker 3: burn break around the perimeter of what you're trying to burn.

1274
01:04:28,800 --> 01:04:30,440
Speaker 3: And what I would tell people, and this, you know,

1275
01:04:30,560 --> 01:04:33,680
Speaker 3: is another big thing that I preach is like the

1276
01:04:33,760 --> 01:04:35,680
Speaker 3: more you can cooperate with your neighbors as better off

1277
01:04:35,720 --> 01:04:38,040
Speaker 3: it is because sometimes there's a ton of time and

1278
01:04:38,080 --> 01:04:39,560
Speaker 3: money to create a burn and break across the middle

1279
01:04:39,600 --> 01:04:41,440
Speaker 3: of a swamp if the property line is there. But

1280
01:04:41,480 --> 01:04:43,440
Speaker 3: if you talk to your neighbor and say, hey, can

1281
01:04:43,480 --> 01:04:45,320
Speaker 3: we just access on this and maybe we do a

1282
01:04:45,360 --> 01:04:47,440
Speaker 3: collab and we do this together. Right, So that's one

1283
01:04:47,440 --> 01:04:50,120
Speaker 3: side of it. But ultimately timeline there you want to

1284
01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:52,760
Speaker 3: be thinking, is you want to burn you know, in

1285
01:04:52,760 --> 01:04:54,840
Speaker 3: the springtime or late summer, but you want to burn

1286
01:04:54,880 --> 01:04:58,840
Speaker 3: off the thatch later, thatch later and then a fall.

1287
01:04:59,480 --> 01:05:05,560
Speaker 3: Treatment of herbicide is critical, like either cleth or even

1288
01:05:05,600 --> 01:05:09,720
Speaker 3: just gly you know so, and I tend to lean

1289
01:05:09,800 --> 01:05:12,560
Speaker 3: on glyphysate a lot more. You know, glip State's been

1290
01:05:12,640 --> 01:05:15,840
Speaker 3: in the news a lot negatively, but it is the

1291
01:05:15,920 --> 01:05:17,560
Speaker 3: lesser of all the evils. I will tell you that

1292
01:05:17,640 --> 01:05:21,440
Speaker 3: right now. All of those herbicides have downstream effects or

1293
01:05:21,560 --> 01:05:25,400
Speaker 3: soil residual effects. Glyphysate is the least of our problems.

1294
01:05:25,680 --> 01:05:28,320
Speaker 3: It just becomes more problematic with repetitive use. Right, So,

1295
01:05:28,560 --> 01:05:30,520
Speaker 3: like food plot wise, we try and peel off the

1296
01:05:30,560 --> 01:05:33,160
Speaker 3: chemicals as much as possible once we get food plots established,

1297
01:05:33,400 --> 01:05:36,800
Speaker 3: different topic of conversation, but in the fall specifically, it's

1298
01:05:36,800 --> 01:05:39,440
Speaker 3: important because when those plants are starting to go dormant

1299
01:05:39,960 --> 01:05:43,240
Speaker 3: and read. Canary grass has a very risemous root system.

1300
01:05:43,280 --> 01:05:46,640
Speaker 3: It's you know, essentially creates like a turf barrier, very

1301
01:05:46,640 --> 01:05:50,920
Speaker 3: similar to turf grass, but like insane. And another mistake

1302
01:05:50,960 --> 01:05:52,560
Speaker 3: I see guys make is like, well, I went, I

1303
01:05:52,600 --> 01:05:54,840
Speaker 3: worked up that area when it was dry. Don't do that.

1304
01:05:55,240 --> 01:05:57,280
Speaker 3: Every time you bust those roots in half, you just

1305
01:05:57,480 --> 01:06:00,680
Speaker 3: multiply that. You know, you cut that worm in half

1306
01:06:00,680 --> 01:06:04,160
Speaker 3: and it regenerates into two worms. Right, So you don't

1307
01:06:04,160 --> 01:06:06,000
Speaker 3: want to approach it from that standpoint. You want to

1308
01:06:06,040 --> 01:06:09,439
Speaker 3: fall treatment of herbicide. And that's why I like GLI.

1309
01:06:10,960 --> 01:06:15,280
Speaker 3: It's cheaper, it's equally or more effective in general, but

1310
01:06:15,360 --> 01:06:17,120
Speaker 3: it's the timing of it. And you want to hit

1311
01:06:17,200 --> 01:06:19,080
Speaker 3: any cool season of grass in general, if you can

1312
01:06:19,120 --> 01:06:22,200
Speaker 3: hit it after a cold stretch in the fall when

1313
01:06:22,240 --> 01:06:24,280
Speaker 3: it's still warm, you know, warms back up and it's

1314
01:06:24,320 --> 01:06:28,360
Speaker 3: still actively growing with a fully herbicide like that. The

1315
01:06:28,400 --> 01:06:29,840
Speaker 3: big thing is in the fall, it's going to grab

1316
01:06:29,880 --> 01:06:31,160
Speaker 3: that herb side. It is going to draw it down

1317
01:06:31,160 --> 01:06:35,120
Speaker 3: on the root system and usually in one year, a

1318
01:06:35,200 --> 01:06:37,360
Speaker 3: lot of times two years, you can wipe out most

1319
01:06:37,480 --> 01:06:40,040
Speaker 3: or all that reed canary by doing that. If you

1320
01:06:40,080 --> 01:06:41,960
Speaker 3: try and burn it and spray it right away in

1321
01:06:42,000 --> 01:06:44,840
Speaker 3: the spring, it's hit or miss because it's pushing a

1322
01:06:44,840 --> 01:06:46,720
Speaker 3: lot of energy up and it's actually growing, it's a

1323
01:06:46,760 --> 01:06:49,240
Speaker 3: lot harder to kill. So that's the protocol that we follow.

1324
01:06:49,720 --> 01:06:53,640
Speaker 3: And you know now with drone sprayers and stuff like that,

1325
01:06:54,240 --> 01:06:56,240
Speaker 3: it's a lot easier to get that done. You know

1326
01:06:56,480 --> 01:06:58,400
Speaker 3: your conditions. And also with glyie you know you can

1327
01:06:58,440 --> 01:07:01,919
Speaker 3: get Wetland approved glide which has you know, different type

1328
01:07:01,920 --> 01:07:04,840
Speaker 3: of surfactant and built into it. But ultimately you can

1329
01:07:04,960 --> 01:07:08,400
Speaker 3: use the herbicide at the most effective time and not

1330
01:07:08,600 --> 01:07:11,880
Speaker 3: be limited by the ground conditions per se, or even

1331
01:07:11,920 --> 01:07:13,760
Speaker 3: like the pressure it puts on your property. Instead of

1332
01:07:13,840 --> 01:07:16,680
Speaker 3: the zigging and zagon out there with an ATV or

1333
01:07:16,840 --> 01:07:19,280
Speaker 3: you know, bigger equipment or god forbid, you have to

1334
01:07:19,280 --> 01:07:21,720
Speaker 3: do it with a backpack sprayer and that volume right,

1335
01:07:21,920 --> 01:07:24,880
Speaker 3: it would be terrible. A drone guy can do it

1336
01:07:24,920 --> 01:07:27,280
Speaker 3: super efficiently in and out and out with it. But

1337
01:07:27,320 --> 01:07:29,640
Speaker 3: it the key thing there is you got to reduce

1338
01:07:29,680 --> 01:07:32,800
Speaker 3: the thatch layer so you get better contact with the herbicide,

1339
01:07:32,840 --> 01:07:35,000
Speaker 3: and then a fall treatment of the herbicide is a

1340
01:07:35,000 --> 01:07:37,240
Speaker 3: really good way. And if you get into the part,

1341
01:07:37,680 --> 01:07:39,280
Speaker 3: I usually would give it at least a full year

1342
01:07:39,320 --> 01:07:42,000
Speaker 3: to make sure. Once you get to that last fall treatment,

1343
01:07:42,240 --> 01:07:43,680
Speaker 3: then you can go right in there a lot of

1344
01:07:43,720 --> 01:07:48,080
Speaker 3: times in broadcast in that perennial blend, and it's got

1345
01:07:48,120 --> 01:07:50,120
Speaker 3: the whole winter to cold stratify and it'll get a

1346
01:07:50,120 --> 01:07:52,880
Speaker 3: big boost the next year. So that's that's our operating

1347
01:07:52,920 --> 01:07:54,600
Speaker 3: procedure in there. And you know, again there's a lot

1348
01:07:54,600 --> 01:07:57,920
Speaker 3: of layers to it, depending on site conditions and you know,

1349
01:07:58,080 --> 01:08:02,040
Speaker 3: individual landowner goals and such. But that's very effective.

1350
01:08:02,000 --> 01:08:06,160
Speaker 2: Okay, real quick, rapid fire. Most underrated habitat tool in

1351
01:08:06,160 --> 01:08:06,800
Speaker 2: your arsenal.

1352
01:08:12,880 --> 01:08:17,559
Speaker 3: Most underrated habitat tool in your arsenal. I mean, obviously

1353
01:08:17,600 --> 01:08:20,760
Speaker 3: it's easy to say a chainsaw or a drip torch, right,

1354
01:08:20,880 --> 01:08:23,120
Speaker 3: but I think I think we talk about those a

1355
01:08:23,120 --> 01:08:28,320
Speaker 3: lot now and people are starting to catch on to it. Yeah,

1356
01:08:28,360 --> 01:08:30,320
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, again, it kind of starts with

1357
01:08:30,360 --> 01:08:34,800
Speaker 3: that foundation. Sometimes the most underrated habitat tool is just

1358
01:08:34,840 --> 01:08:37,680
Speaker 3: a plan, plain and simple. That's fair. That's fair, you

1359
01:08:37,720 --> 01:08:40,800
Speaker 3: know what I mean? Because again, like we don't want

1360
01:08:40,800 --> 01:08:44,200
Speaker 3: to be thinking like project, project, project, and setting yourself

1361
01:08:44,280 --> 01:08:47,519
Speaker 3: up for success. You know, the burning thing always comes up.

1362
01:08:47,640 --> 01:08:49,599
Speaker 3: And I have this conversation with every single client. Are

1363
01:08:49,600 --> 01:08:51,439
Speaker 3: you willing to burn? Do you want to learn about burning?

1364
01:08:51,560 --> 01:08:53,840
Speaker 3: Some guys have done it, They're all for it. Some

1365
01:08:53,880 --> 01:08:57,559
Speaker 3: guys are apprehensive. Some guys are completely against it for

1366
01:08:57,640 --> 01:09:01,920
Speaker 3: various reasons. Usually they've had a a traumatic experience. I

1367
01:09:02,000 --> 01:09:06,080
Speaker 3: had a client that had a house burned down.

1368
01:09:06,200 --> 01:09:06,680
Speaker 4: Oh my god.

1369
01:09:06,760 --> 01:09:08,160
Speaker 3: It's just like, I don't even want to think about

1370
01:09:08,240 --> 01:09:10,320
Speaker 3: running fire through here. And I always try and ease

1371
01:09:10,320 --> 01:09:13,080
Speaker 3: their mind. I'm like, I'm not saying this to brag.

1372
01:09:13,120 --> 01:09:15,920
Speaker 3: I just want to give you something to relate to.

1373
01:09:16,439 --> 01:09:20,479
Speaker 3: I did all of my personal burns last year with

1374
01:09:20,520 --> 01:09:22,240
Speaker 3: my four year old daughter and my eight year old son.

1375
01:09:22,360 --> 01:09:25,519
Speaker 3: They were the only staff I had, right, And I

1376
01:09:25,600 --> 01:09:29,639
Speaker 3: say that very very very cheap, not super effective. They're

1377
01:09:29,680 --> 01:09:32,599
Speaker 3: mostly spotters, right, you know. I park my daughter on

1378
01:09:32,600 --> 01:09:35,160
Speaker 3: one corner, safest spot she can be in. You watch

1379
01:09:35,240 --> 01:09:37,560
Speaker 3: that fire line. If that fire gets across it, you

1380
01:09:37,640 --> 01:09:39,519
Speaker 3: yell for dad. Son can go on the other side.

1381
01:09:39,520 --> 01:09:42,240
Speaker 3: He's a little bigger can make better decisions. Give him

1382
01:09:42,240 --> 01:09:45,240
Speaker 3: a shovel, electrically floor. If it hits the fire line,

1383
01:09:45,240 --> 01:09:47,080
Speaker 3: put it out. If you can't get it out, get

1384
01:09:47,080 --> 01:09:49,439
Speaker 3: out of there, yell for dad. Pretty straightforward. But ultimately

1385
01:09:49,439 --> 01:09:51,320
Speaker 3: what it all comes down to is having a really

1386
01:09:51,360 --> 01:09:53,559
Speaker 3: good plan laid out. You know, we've got a good plan.

1387
01:09:53,720 --> 01:09:56,439
Speaker 3: I know the timeline there, I've got the you know.

1388
01:09:56,520 --> 01:10:00,800
Speaker 3: I could also say, like, you know, an on underrated

1389
01:10:01,520 --> 01:10:03,920
Speaker 3: habitatool will be a bulldozer, right if we cut in

1390
01:10:04,000 --> 01:10:06,120
Speaker 3: burn brakes or a mulcher cutting in a burn break,

1391
01:10:06,200 --> 01:10:08,400
Speaker 3: or a skitzteer chainsaw, you know, all that falls into

1392
01:10:08,400 --> 01:10:11,839
Speaker 3: their backpack, leaf floor, creating access points in burn breaks,

1393
01:10:12,040 --> 01:10:15,400
Speaker 3: something that's easy to maintain, where you know the conditions

1394
01:10:15,400 --> 01:10:17,439
Speaker 3: look right today, I throw on the leaf bloor, go out,

1395
01:10:17,600 --> 01:10:20,080
Speaker 3: zip a perimeter around that I'm ready to burn and

1396
01:10:20,120 --> 01:10:22,680
Speaker 3: not like this ongoing thing where it's like, oh, this

1397
01:10:22,760 --> 01:10:25,280
Speaker 3: is all this prep that comes you know with that,

1398
01:10:25,920 --> 01:10:29,439
Speaker 3: but ultimately having the plan laid out and it's no

1399
01:10:29,520 --> 01:10:32,760
Speaker 3: different than how we hunt. Right, It's like if I'm

1400
01:10:32,760 --> 01:10:35,280
Speaker 3: a guy that only has like, you know that one

1401
01:10:35,320 --> 01:10:36,840
Speaker 3: week out of the year that I can hunt my

1402
01:10:36,880 --> 01:10:39,599
Speaker 3: property and I have to really be dialed in. I'm

1403
01:10:39,640 --> 01:10:41,920
Speaker 3: looking for a very specific set of conditions to go

1404
01:10:42,000 --> 01:10:44,760
Speaker 3: into some of those really really productive spots, and if

1405
01:10:44,760 --> 01:10:46,880
Speaker 3: I hunt them at the wrong time, it can cause

1406
01:10:46,920 --> 01:10:49,719
Speaker 3: problems for the whole property. Right. The same thing goes

1407
01:10:49,800 --> 01:10:51,760
Speaker 3: with a burn plan or any plan. It's like, if

1408
01:10:51,760 --> 01:10:53,519
Speaker 3: I have everything laid out in front of me, where

1409
01:10:53,560 --> 01:10:57,000
Speaker 3: I understand the timing that's going to promote the best response,

1410
01:10:57,400 --> 01:10:59,400
Speaker 3: then I'm just sitting back and wait for the conditions

1411
01:10:59,400 --> 01:11:01,200
Speaker 3: to be right and I can jump and go do

1412
01:11:01,240 --> 01:11:03,559
Speaker 3: it right now, you know, maybe I've got an hour

1413
01:11:03,600 --> 01:11:05,599
Speaker 3: at the end of the day. Up, zip up there,

1414
01:11:06,360 --> 01:11:10,000
Speaker 3: relatively easy, right, you need more an hour to burn

1415
01:11:10,240 --> 01:11:12,120
Speaker 3: most of the time, not the burn itself, but the

1416
01:11:12,160 --> 01:11:14,960
Speaker 3: mop up afterwards. Right, But even that, it's like, oh,

1417
01:11:15,000 --> 01:11:17,479
Speaker 3: we've got the right conditions today and rain's coming tomorrow.

1418
01:11:17,520 --> 01:11:19,880
Speaker 3: I'm burning, and I'm gonna watch it a little bit

1419
01:11:19,880 --> 01:11:22,080
Speaker 3: and I'm gonna sleep a lot better knowing that rain's hitting,

1420
01:11:22,240 --> 01:11:24,360
Speaker 3: you know, at the wee hours of the morning to

1421
01:11:24,400 --> 01:11:27,800
Speaker 3: suppress everything else. But yeah, you know again, drip torch

1422
01:11:27,840 --> 01:11:30,280
Speaker 3: is great chainsaw. You know it is probably going to

1423
01:11:30,360 --> 01:11:32,599
Speaker 3: move the needle for more people more than anything else.

1424
01:11:34,160 --> 01:11:35,680
Speaker 3: But that's short term if you don't have a long

1425
01:11:35,760 --> 01:11:38,839
Speaker 3: term plan. So I would argue and we could whittle

1426
01:11:38,840 --> 01:11:41,439
Speaker 3: it down to having a plan, a good plan. And

1427
01:11:41,479 --> 01:11:43,400
Speaker 3: I'm not saying that from the viewpoint of like you

1428
01:11:43,439 --> 01:11:46,720
Speaker 3: need to hire me, but you should write things out

1429
01:11:46,720 --> 01:11:49,200
Speaker 3: on a piece of paper, take your map, lay it out,

1430
01:11:49,320 --> 01:11:52,240
Speaker 3: look at every individual tary of your property and go, Okay,

1431
01:11:52,520 --> 01:11:53,760
Speaker 3: what do I want this to be and what's it

1432
01:11:53,760 --> 01:11:54,920
Speaker 3: going to take to get there? And then what's it

1433
01:11:54,960 --> 01:11:57,519
Speaker 3: going to take to keep it there? Or how do

1434
01:11:57,600 --> 01:12:00,240
Speaker 3: I reset it? Cause you know, again painting with a

1435
01:12:00,240 --> 01:12:03,800
Speaker 3: broad brush. There's gonna be properties where you know, maybe

1436
01:12:04,040 --> 01:12:07,120
Speaker 3: all they're doing is managing via timber harvest. Okay, well,

1437
01:12:07,120 --> 01:12:10,000
Speaker 3: then don't harvest the entire hundred acres in one or

1438
01:12:10,040 --> 01:12:12,439
Speaker 3: two years, stagger it, break it up a whole bunch

1439
01:12:12,479 --> 01:12:14,760
Speaker 3: in a mosaic so they're in there every five years

1440
01:12:14,760 --> 01:12:17,920
Speaker 3: and you have a rotation in there, right and again

1441
01:12:17,960 --> 01:12:20,040
Speaker 3: you got to stay ahead of the invasives. That's a

1442
01:12:20,040 --> 01:12:22,240
Speaker 3: big problem that we see on these properties where they

1443
01:12:22,240 --> 01:12:24,240
Speaker 3: just go on and cut heavy and there's no management plan,

1444
01:12:24,280 --> 01:12:26,639
Speaker 3: because then you don't get any good regeneration and then

1445
01:12:26,720 --> 01:12:28,840
Speaker 3: then you're talking a lot more cost perakre to get

1446
01:12:28,840 --> 01:12:30,840
Speaker 3: ahead of it down the road when you decide that

1447
01:12:31,479 --> 01:12:33,400
Speaker 3: or come to the realization that it's a problem.

1448
01:12:33,520 --> 01:12:37,000
Speaker 2: Essentially, yeah, most overrated habitat practice. And then and then

1449
01:12:37,240 --> 01:12:37,879
Speaker 2: that's it.

1450
01:12:39,160 --> 01:12:42,519
Speaker 3: Most overrated habitat practice. You know, I don't want to

1451
01:12:42,560 --> 01:12:44,639
Speaker 3: jump on this bandwagon, but I would definitely say hinge

1452
01:12:44,640 --> 01:12:45,639
Speaker 3: cutting is right up there.

1453
01:12:47,240 --> 01:12:47,760
Speaker 4: Why is that?

1454
01:12:48,800 --> 01:12:50,439
Speaker 3: Well? You know, and again I don't I don't want

1455
01:12:50,439 --> 01:12:55,479
Speaker 3: to be I don't want to generalize too much. I

1456
01:12:55,880 --> 01:12:59,759
Speaker 3: definitely employ hinge cutting and utilize hinge cutting, and promote

1457
01:12:59,800 --> 01:13:03,679
Speaker 3: hine cutting to a certain extent. But when you're hinge cutting,

1458
01:13:03,680 --> 01:13:05,200
Speaker 3: I think it's important that you want to look at

1459
01:13:05,280 --> 01:13:07,439
Speaker 3: hinge cutting and again, what is this going to turn

1460
01:13:07,439 --> 01:13:11,519
Speaker 3: in two years down the road? A successful hinge is

1461
01:13:11,640 --> 01:13:15,280
Speaker 3: very problematic down the road in the sense that it's

1462
01:13:15,320 --> 01:13:18,559
Speaker 3: hard to manage. It's one hundred percent manual reset of

1463
01:13:18,600 --> 01:13:20,759
Speaker 3: that hinge. So if you're a guy with a small

1464
01:13:20,760 --> 01:13:24,040
Speaker 3: property or even a big property, and you have like

1465
01:13:24,080 --> 01:13:28,679
Speaker 3: a handful of very specific hinge cut areas, betting areas, screens,

1466
01:13:28,720 --> 01:13:31,559
Speaker 3: whatever however you create those, then you just have to

1467
01:13:31,600 --> 01:13:34,599
Speaker 3: have that on your reoccurring schedule of every x number

1468
01:13:34,640 --> 01:13:37,200
Speaker 3: of years, I'm going in there and I'm recutting that, right,

1469
01:13:37,640 --> 01:13:41,559
Speaker 3: versus going in flush cutting or cutting like pollard cutting

1470
01:13:41,560 --> 01:13:43,400
Speaker 3: and cutting out different heights and stuff like that to

1471
01:13:43,479 --> 01:13:46,920
Speaker 3: encourage regeneration at certain levels that can be managed a

1472
01:13:46,960 --> 01:13:50,360
Speaker 3: lot more easily either resetting with fire or just going

1473
01:13:50,360 --> 01:13:52,640
Speaker 3: in and cutting like one felt swoop, whatever it might be.

1474
01:13:53,439 --> 01:13:55,960
Speaker 3: Where hinge cutting I think is the most effective and

1475
01:13:55,960 --> 01:13:59,000
Speaker 3: how I utilize it the most is that back to

1476
01:13:59,000 --> 01:14:02,360
Speaker 3: what we're talking about creating barriers or obstacles in some sense,

1477
01:14:02,720 --> 01:14:04,720
Speaker 3: when I hingecut to create a barrier, I don't want

1478
01:14:04,720 --> 01:14:06,519
Speaker 3: the tree to stay alive, so I'll cut it as

1479
01:14:06,520 --> 01:14:08,200
Speaker 3: far the way through as I can to keep it

1480
01:14:08,240 --> 01:14:10,160
Speaker 3: hanging on. And sometimes I'll leave a hinge cut it

1481
01:14:10,200 --> 01:14:12,759
Speaker 3: and i'll girdle it below the hinge, or usually girdle

1482
01:14:12,760 --> 01:14:14,200
Speaker 3: it first and then hinge it so it's easier to

1483
01:14:14,320 --> 01:14:17,280
Speaker 3: get access to. But ultimately I just want to keep

1484
01:14:17,320 --> 01:14:19,400
Speaker 3: that tree off the ground because I want a barrier

1485
01:14:19,439 --> 01:14:22,360
Speaker 3: there that doesn't rod away in three to five years,

1486
01:14:22,479 --> 01:14:24,160
Speaker 3: and also keeping it off the ground creates a little

1487
01:14:24,160 --> 01:14:26,000
Speaker 3: bit better barrier also, Right, But if I keep it

1488
01:14:26,000 --> 01:14:28,720
Speaker 3: off the ground, out of the moisture, less bacterial, less

1489
01:14:28,760 --> 01:14:32,400
Speaker 3: bugs there, it lasts a lot longer. I'm creating structure

1490
01:14:32,520 --> 01:14:33,840
Speaker 3: that lasts a long time. So if I go in

1491
01:14:33,840 --> 01:14:36,000
Speaker 3: a bedding area, i might hinge one or two trees

1492
01:14:36,040 --> 01:14:38,000
Speaker 3: in there, but I'm not doing it to keep them alive.

1493
01:14:38,000 --> 01:14:40,920
Speaker 3: I just want instant back cover. And I'm understanding that

1494
01:14:41,000 --> 01:14:42,920
Speaker 3: in time it's going to fade. You know, it's not

1495
01:14:42,960 --> 01:14:45,880
Speaker 3: going to be a permanent solution. But I would definitely

1496
01:14:45,960 --> 01:14:48,439
Speaker 3: argue hinge cuttings. You know, it falls right in those

1497
01:14:48,439 --> 01:14:51,000
Speaker 3: parameters of a project that creates more work for you

1498
01:14:51,040 --> 01:14:53,080
Speaker 3: down the road. And I've been on so many properties

1499
01:14:53,120 --> 01:14:57,400
Speaker 3: where there's these nasty hinge cut messes that you know, basically,

1500
01:14:57,439 --> 01:15:01,600
Speaker 3: it becomes a tree with way too many stems to

1501
01:15:01,600 --> 01:15:05,320
Speaker 3: try and manage again, and then around it is filled

1502
01:15:05,320 --> 01:15:08,880
Speaker 3: in with invasives. It's hard to access those spots and

1503
01:15:08,960 --> 01:15:12,519
Speaker 3: becomes a tangly mess, and then the mature bucks just

1504
01:15:12,560 --> 01:15:15,360
Speaker 3: don't like them as much. You know, the doles will

1505
01:15:15,400 --> 01:15:17,120
Speaker 3: talk in there, the bucks will bet on the backside

1506
01:15:17,160 --> 01:15:18,880
Speaker 3: of it, but they don't generally get into it. And

1507
01:15:19,200 --> 01:15:21,200
Speaker 3: I say this, you know again, people are listening to

1508
01:15:21,240 --> 01:15:23,680
Speaker 3: this and be like, wow, that's bulls. Yes, you know,

1509
01:15:23,800 --> 01:15:26,040
Speaker 3: I've seen that on my property at work. Every area

1510
01:15:26,080 --> 01:15:28,519
Speaker 3: is different, right, it's all relative to the area. But

1511
01:15:28,600 --> 01:15:30,680
Speaker 3: as far as things that I think are way overblown

1512
01:15:30,840 --> 01:15:34,759
Speaker 3: or way overdone are like massive hingecut projects for sure.

1513
01:15:35,920 --> 01:15:38,559
Speaker 2: Well, Thomas, if someone's fired up and wants to learn more,

1514
01:15:38,880 --> 01:15:41,920
Speaker 2: maybe once to get a plan. Where is the best

1515
01:15:41,920 --> 01:15:44,920
Speaker 2: place to get a hold of you and anything else

1516
01:15:44,920 --> 01:15:45,240
Speaker 2: you want.

1517
01:15:45,160 --> 01:15:45,599
Speaker 4: To plug here?

1518
01:15:46,200 --> 01:15:46,439
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1519
01:15:46,479 --> 01:15:49,680
Speaker 3: Well, hopefully I didn't just confuse everyone or turn there.

1520
01:15:49,840 --> 01:15:53,720
Speaker 4: There's some confusion, but hopefully sparks curiosity.

1521
01:15:54,439 --> 01:15:57,960
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, well you can reach out to me. Instagram

1522
01:15:58,080 --> 01:16:00,320
Speaker 3: is probably social media where I'm the most act give

1523
01:16:00,680 --> 01:16:03,760
Speaker 3: the Untamed Ambition. My website is probably the best place,

1524
01:16:03,840 --> 01:16:05,320
Speaker 3: you know, if you if you're serious and you want

1525
01:16:05,320 --> 01:16:07,400
Speaker 3: to plan or you want to have a detailed conversation,

1526
01:16:07,479 --> 01:16:09,479
Speaker 3: the best thing is just go to my website and

1527
01:16:09,520 --> 01:16:13,240
Speaker 3: schedule a free call. That's just the Untamed Ambition dot com.

1528
01:16:13,240 --> 01:16:15,640
Speaker 4: Awesome, Well, thank you so much, Thank you