WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: Lisanne Froon and Kris Kremers 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.520 Hey, everybody. Today's episode is brought to you by audible 0:00:03.600 --> 0:00:06.800 dot Com. Audible is a leading provider of spoken audio 0:00:06.840 --> 0:00:11.840 information and entertainment. Listen to audio books wherever and whenever 0:00:11.960 --> 0:00:14.920 you want. Get a free audio book of your choice 0:00:15.240 --> 0:00:25.840 at audible podcast dot com. Slash Thinking Sideways, Thinking Sideways, 0:00:26.400 --> 0:00:36.240 I don't just I'm you never know stories of things 0:00:36.320 --> 0:00:41.640 we simply don't know the answer too. Hey, it's up. 0:00:41.960 --> 0:00:48.280 It's a Thinking Sideways the podcast. I'm Devin, joined as usual, 0:00:48.440 --> 0:00:54.160 I guess by Joe and Steve. Yeah, we're sure, um, 0:00:54.200 --> 0:00:56.160 and this week I'm kind of breaking the rules a 0:00:56.200 --> 0:00:59.920 little bit. If you're an avid listener or like you've 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:04.040 been in discussions with us on like Reddit or email, 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:06.399 we say this a lot too. We try to not 0:01:06.640 --> 0:01:11.200 do mysteries that are like anything under five years old. 0:01:11.600 --> 0:01:15.200 We try not to do with a few exceptions. I think, um, 0:01:15.280 --> 0:01:19.240 the Alisa Lamb one and they seventy and I think 0:01:19.240 --> 0:01:21.840 those are the only two that we've done so far. 0:01:22.800 --> 0:01:24.679 I think that's right. Um, I don't know. We have 0:01:24.720 --> 0:01:27.119 a lot of episodes. I don't know, so I did 0:01:27.120 --> 0:01:28.880 not go through every single one, but I'm pretty sure 0:01:28.920 --> 0:01:32.120 it's just been those two. But this mystery, it was 0:01:32.160 --> 0:01:34.800 too good to pass up, um, and it was one 0:01:34.840 --> 0:01:39.000 that I literally just learned about within the last week. 0:01:39.520 --> 0:01:41.360 And we're going to talk about it. Where did you 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:47.320 learn about it? Um? In internet? Uh So it's we're 0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:51.080 going to talk about the disappearance quote unquote disappearance of 0:01:51.600 --> 0:01:57.040 Lasanne Froun and Chris Creamer's Creamers. It's their Dutch names, 0:01:57.080 --> 0:02:02.320 so it's hard not gredation there. It is Lisianne and Chris, 0:02:02.360 --> 0:02:04.080 so I'm going to call them by their first names. 0:02:04.240 --> 0:02:07.720 They are twenty two and twenty one years old, respectively, 0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:13.639 and they are young women from the Netherlands. There Dutch. 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:17.760 They had saved up for about six months to travel 0:02:17.800 --> 0:02:21.160 from the Netherlands to Panama to spend a couple of 0:02:21.160 --> 0:02:24.800 months there. They traveled like kind of did tourist stuff 0:02:24.800 --> 0:02:26.640 for a couple of weeks, and then their plan was 0:02:26.680 --> 0:02:28.640 to go to this small town and kind of the 0:02:28.800 --> 0:02:32.480 like northern kind of almost the northern border actually of 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:36.560 Panama and uh teach for a couple of weeks. Do 0:02:36.639 --> 0:02:41.600 we know what they were teaching? Okay? I I didn't 0:02:41.160 --> 0:02:44.639 Maybe English, maybe Spanish, I can't remember. It was a 0:02:44.720 --> 0:02:48.840 language I think of some maybe Dutch, probably not, but maybe. 0:02:48.880 --> 0:02:51.480 I mean it seems like the you know used for 0:02:51.639 --> 0:02:55.520 Dutch in Panama and kind of like, you know in 0:02:55.680 --> 0:02:58.080 rural Panama. Yeah. I was gonna say, if this was 0:02:58.160 --> 0:02:59.880 you know, along the ports or something, it would totally 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:02.440 makes sense. But if you're a rural area, that doesn't 0:03:02.440 --> 0:03:05.400 make a whole lot of sense. But hard saying. Yeah, 0:03:05.480 --> 0:03:09.280 So they traveled to this small town called Bookheat. Is 0:03:09.280 --> 0:03:15.000 that how you would say that? I believe, Yeah, I don't. 0:03:15.240 --> 0:03:17.280 I have no idea either. They were going to stay 0:03:17.320 --> 0:03:19.600 with a host family, which is the way that a 0:03:19.600 --> 0:03:22.520 lot of young travelers do. That they settled in, they 0:03:22.560 --> 0:03:25.400 went to check in to like work. They're like, we're here, 0:03:25.480 --> 0:03:28.320 ready to work. It's I think Sunday or who knows 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:31.360 what day it is, I don't remember, but we're gonna 0:03:31.400 --> 0:03:35.400 we're gonna start working. And the person who ran that school, 0:03:35.480 --> 0:03:38.960 who's an American woman, said, oh, no, you can't work 0:03:39.040 --> 0:03:43.600 until next week. You have a week to kill. They 0:03:43.600 --> 0:03:47.520 had an entire week. Yeah, okay, I thought less than 0:03:47.600 --> 0:03:49.840 time than that, I'll go play to Arista for a 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:52.560 while longer. Yeah. So it turns out actually lists Anne 0:03:52.600 --> 0:03:56.120 was like very upset about that. She even reportedly wrote 0:03:56.160 --> 0:03:58.600 in her diary about how mad she was that they 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:01.880 couldn't start teaching. I don't know if that was, you know, 0:04:01.920 --> 0:04:03.960 she just wanted to get on with it. If she 0:04:04.080 --> 0:04:08.000 was annoyed that the I guess maybe some communication had 0:04:08.080 --> 0:04:11.320 gone awry. I don't know why she was so so 0:04:11.360 --> 0:04:14.040 mad about it. Maybe she had mapped at her trip 0:04:14.160 --> 0:04:16.000 very carefully. Maybe she wanted to do maybe she was 0:04:16.040 --> 0:04:20.120 a planner like that. Yeah, well, anyways, it meant, you know, 0:04:20.200 --> 0:04:23.480 this area is very jungle filled. It's like very close 0:04:23.520 --> 0:04:26.280 to the continental divide, and so it meant they had 0:04:26.320 --> 0:04:31.480 a week to kill. And the next day they contacted 0:04:31.520 --> 0:04:35.719 a guy in in Panama. Apparently. I've never been um, 0:04:35.760 --> 0:04:39.239 but in Panama apparently there you can hire a tour 0:04:39.320 --> 0:04:44.279 guide for just about anything, especially trails in the area. 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:46.600 So one of the things they did was they booked 0:04:46.880 --> 0:04:50.599 a tour guide for a trail. They booked a tour 0:04:50.640 --> 0:04:54.520 guide to take them on this trail called the Pianist. 0:04:54.839 --> 0:04:59.320 The Pianist, which is, depending on the source, either a 0:04:59.520 --> 0:05:03.120 very easy few hours walk through lush jungle with a 0:05:03.200 --> 0:05:05.400 huge payoff. You at the divide at the top of 0:05:05.440 --> 0:05:10.920 the mountains up there, or a super treacherous path riddled 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:14.320 with hard terrain and is like really dangerous to do. 0:05:15.640 --> 0:05:18.200 I've done a lot of research on this, and as 0:05:18.279 --> 0:05:21.359 far as I can tell, it seems like the path 0:05:21.560 --> 0:05:25.760 up the mountain to the divide is like pretty easy. 0:05:25.839 --> 0:05:27.719 I mean, I wouldn't say that, you know, it's just 0:05:27.800 --> 0:05:31.480 like a stroll. It's not paved. It's uphill. It is, 0:05:31.680 --> 0:05:35.120 you know, definitely uphill, but it's not like a climb. 0:05:35.240 --> 0:05:39.440 You don't have to be, you know, a super experienced hiker. Yeah, 0:05:39.440 --> 0:05:41.520 a lot of It's like a lot of trails in Oregon. 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:45.880 You know, there's the easy part and yeah, and then 0:05:45.920 --> 0:05:48.159 the easy part or the not easy part is on 0:05:48.160 --> 0:05:50.160 the other side of the divide. It seems like I've 0:05:50.160 --> 0:05:52.280 watched a lot of videos of people like walking around 0:05:52.320 --> 0:05:54.920 in this area, and it does seem like, you know, 0:05:55.080 --> 0:05:57.320 I guess if it was like flooded, if it was 0:05:57.360 --> 0:06:01.040 super wet and soggy, maybe it would be dangerous or 0:06:01.160 --> 0:06:06.320 hard to navigate. But on April one, which is when 0:06:06.920 --> 0:06:10.200 these girls were in the area, it was beautiful. It 0:06:10.279 --> 0:06:13.239 was like really nice weather and really sunny and nice 0:06:13.279 --> 0:06:17.280 and so anyways, so that a tornado didn't get him. 0:06:18.080 --> 0:06:20.960 But anyway, so they and their plan, I presume was 0:06:21.000 --> 0:06:22.640 just to go to the top, look around, and come 0:06:22.680 --> 0:06:24.880 back the easy way again. Well, and I you know, 0:06:24.960 --> 0:06:28.560 that's kind of a question, honestly, is um they hired 0:06:28.600 --> 0:06:33.000 this this guide for April second in the morning, who 0:06:33.120 --> 0:06:35.600 was going to take them on the trail? They they 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:38.800 arranged for that and everything, and then on the first 0:06:39.160 --> 0:06:43.520 April one, eleven am, they just decided, you know what, 0:06:43.680 --> 0:06:47.040 let's just do that trail today, I guess, as far 0:06:47.080 --> 0:06:50.599 as anyone can tell, which is odd to me, I'll 0:06:50.640 --> 0:06:53.240 be honest, it's a little weird that you would, you know, 0:06:53.360 --> 0:06:55.479 book a guide to take you on a trail and 0:06:55.520 --> 0:06:58.360 then just hike it the day before. Yeah, that doesn't 0:06:58.400 --> 0:07:00.440 make a lot of sense to me. Any Let's get 0:07:00.480 --> 0:07:03.040 back to the story. You know, kind of just talked 0:07:03.080 --> 0:07:05.400 for a little bit there. So at about eleven am 0:07:05.440 --> 0:07:08.279 on April one, Lausanne and Chris took off to walk 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:13.200 with Lisanne's backpack with bottled water. And you know, it 0:07:13.240 --> 0:07:16.680 doesn't seem like they had snacks or really anything. It 0:07:16.720 --> 0:07:19.800 just seems like they did have bottles of water, and 0:07:19.840 --> 0:07:22.559 they had their phones and their cameras and a little 0:07:22.560 --> 0:07:26.760 money UM. And they had searched for directions to the 0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:29.920 trail from where they were UM on their computers before 0:07:29.920 --> 0:07:33.880 they left their homes day. And there are some reports 0:07:34.560 --> 0:07:39.239 that they had brunch that morning at a cafe before 0:07:39.280 --> 0:07:42.280 they left. It's not totally clear if that happened or not. 0:07:42.560 --> 0:07:45.560 It's also not clear, uh, if it's true or not 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:49.960 that the reports of two young Dutch gentlemen joining them 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:55.640 for that meal was true. But what is certain is 0:07:55.680 --> 0:07:59.720 that it's uncertain how they got from where they were 0:07:59.720 --> 0:08:02.760 staying in their homes day to the trailhead. I guess 0:08:02.760 --> 0:08:04.320 it was a bit of a you would have had 0:08:04.360 --> 0:08:07.400 to take a taxi or a bus or something like that. 0:08:07.400 --> 0:08:10.680 That was a long walk them from there. Yeah, maybe 0:08:10.800 --> 0:08:13.200 maybe the two Dutch guys gave him a ride. That 0:08:13.400 --> 0:08:16.720 is thrown around is this is this is this part 0:08:16.760 --> 0:08:20.160 of Panama I really popular with Dutch people. I guess 0:08:20.360 --> 0:08:22.520 I don't know, Like these were Dutch men that like 0:08:22.600 --> 0:08:25.040 they didn't they apparently didn't actually know, like they weren't 0:08:25.080 --> 0:08:27.720 friends with them. They just approached them and had heard 0:08:27.720 --> 0:08:29.720 that they were speaking Dutch and they were like, oh, 0:08:29.840 --> 0:08:32.800 we're from the Netherlands to let's talk. I was gonna say, Yeah, 0:08:32.800 --> 0:08:34.800 if you're in a foreign country, you're in a little restaurant, 0:08:34.880 --> 0:08:38.319 you overhear a language that you know, you automatically gravitate 0:08:38.400 --> 0:08:40.920 to that. Of course. Yeah, I mean whenever I travel, 0:08:40.960 --> 0:08:44.000 I always meet people and wind up hanging out with them. 0:08:43.040 --> 0:08:47.200 So the weather this happened in two thousand fourteen, I 0:08:47.200 --> 0:08:50.000 guess I haven't actually set the dates out or anything 0:08:50.040 --> 0:08:52.920 like that. April first, two thousand fourteen, and the weather 0:08:53.559 --> 0:08:55.920 so not that long ago. That's why she admitted she 0:08:55.960 --> 0:08:59.080 was breaking the rules earlier, super breaking the rules. So 0:08:59.120 --> 0:09:02.959 the weather on the first of April two thousand fourteen 0:09:03.720 --> 0:09:08.720 was high than the like nineties fahrenheit, which is thirties celsius, 0:09:08.800 --> 0:09:15.199 and lows in the kind of low seventies, low twenties celsius. 0:09:15.280 --> 0:09:19.520 Nice weather, yeah, I mean probably humid yet nineties and 0:09:19.600 --> 0:09:22.400 humid for hiking. I don't know, I probably would like, well, 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:25.240 I suppose it was a really easy trail. I just 0:09:25.280 --> 0:09:27.920 don't like. I'm not a hot weather per sure. You know, 0:09:27.960 --> 0:09:31.040 it's it's not as though it was you know, freezing 0:09:31.200 --> 0:09:34.560 cold and covering rain and all the times it wasn't 0:09:34.640 --> 0:09:39.200 terrible conditions. They had with them a camera, it was 0:09:39.240 --> 0:09:41.960 like a cannon or an icon, I can't remember. It 0:09:42.000 --> 0:09:44.959 was a canon, and they had their phones and as 0:09:45.000 --> 0:09:47.640 you did, imagine imagine, they took a couple of photos 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:53.480 in these like really picturesque locations. They're gorgeous photos. I've 0:09:53.520 --> 0:09:55.480 seen some of the photos too, you know, and and 0:09:55.760 --> 0:09:58.360 they look like they're having a great time. I would be, yeah, 0:09:58.440 --> 0:10:02.400 it's beautiful out there. And so they took photos of 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:05.640 each other, so they don't appear together in any photos. 0:10:05.679 --> 0:10:07.480 You know, that's just two girls out hiking and say, 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:09.040 you know you, okay, you take a picture of me. Okay, 0:10:09.080 --> 0:10:10.840 now I'll take a picture of you. It's you know. 0:10:10.960 --> 0:10:12.719 So there's a picture of each of them at the 0:10:12.800 --> 0:10:15.520 kind of summit at the Continental vide which is beautiful. 0:10:16.360 --> 0:10:18.200 And then there are some pictures that are kind of 0:10:18.200 --> 0:10:24.359 more like candid hiking shots of Chris that Listen presumably 0:10:24.360 --> 0:10:26.840 took um I think it was her camera in fact, 0:10:27.160 --> 0:10:31.160 and they show Chris not wearing a backpack, so we 0:10:31.320 --> 0:10:34.640 presume that Lisanne was wearing the backpack as well. But 0:10:34.679 --> 0:10:36.719 you know, they're just like from behind shots or like 0:10:36.760 --> 0:10:40.600 you know, Chris standing by a waterfall and like posing, 0:10:40.679 --> 0:10:43.439 and you know, none of those photos exist of Lissen. 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:45.920 They're all of Chris, so we know who like to 0:10:46.000 --> 0:10:48.120 use the camera more than the other. Yeah, or you 0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:49.840 know it was her camera, so you know, you would 0:10:49.840 --> 0:10:52.360 just kind of assume if she was probably walking behind 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:56.840 Chris and she was just you know, snapping photos. Oh yeah, right, 0:10:57.000 --> 0:10:59.720 some of them do kind of look more like, hey, Chris, 0:10:59.760 --> 0:11:04.160 turn round, click, you know, pose for the picture. Then 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:09.839 on April two, when the girls failed to appear at 0:11:09.880 --> 0:11:16.440 their appointment with the local guide, he got a little angry. 0:11:16.720 --> 0:11:19.000 I don't think he was angry. The impression I have 0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:22.880 is that he actually his first he was first concerned. Yeah. 0:11:22.920 --> 0:11:25.240 So he went to the house where they were home 0:11:25.280 --> 0:11:28.000 staying and said, well, you know, did they oversleep? Did 0:11:28.040 --> 0:11:29.880 they decide to cancel and not tell me what's going on? 0:11:30.440 --> 0:11:32.959 And the family that they were supposed to be staying with, said, oh, 0:11:33.080 --> 0:11:35.720 we even we haven't seen them. They left yesterday and 0:11:35.720 --> 0:11:38.559 we haven't seen him. Since. It's not a good start, 0:11:38.720 --> 0:11:43.120 not a great start. The family quickly reported the girls missing, 0:11:44.240 --> 0:11:50.760 Although they attempted to report them missing like two times before, 0:11:50.760 --> 0:11:54.240 they were officially reported missing. They're officially reported missing. I 0:11:54.240 --> 0:11:57.520 think it was like at nine pm, so that obviously 0:11:57.559 --> 0:12:00.560 it wasn't ideal. But apparently as soon as they were 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:04.600 reported missing, it was reported that the pan p how 0:12:04.600 --> 0:12:10.240 do you say Panamanian Panamanian thank you authorities, they've sent 0:12:10.280 --> 0:12:14.720 out huge search teams and search and rescuers immediately took 0:12:14.720 --> 0:12:17.920 to the jungle to start searching. It turns out that 0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:22.520 might not be true. It turns out that the brother 0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:25.720 of the guide that they had hired, who's a farmer. 0:12:26.040 --> 0:12:28.840 I think that the connection heard about it and got 0:12:28.840 --> 0:12:32.040 some local volunteer farmers and all the others, and they 0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:36.440 started searching. But it turns out that the official search 0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:40.560 and rescue effort didn't start for a while. So wait 0:12:40.559 --> 0:12:44.040 did wait? Wait? So maybe I didn't ever catch that 0:12:44.200 --> 0:12:48.199 in the research They went out on the first, people 0:12:48.240 --> 0:12:50.800 figured out they were missing on the morning of the second, 0:12:50.960 --> 0:12:55.240 and eventually they're reported being The status of being missing 0:12:55.720 --> 0:13:00.360 was finally acknowledged, but only a farmer. I want to 0:13:00.400 --> 0:13:03.120 look for him. A farmer and some local volunteers. You know, 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:06.360 this is this is a little dinky town. There's probably 0:13:06.400 --> 0:13:09.000 not like a huge you know, search and rescue team 0:13:09.040 --> 0:13:12.679 available right there. Thank you. That Okay, it seems likely, 0:13:13.720 --> 0:13:15.840 you know, it depends on where you read it. Completely 0:13:15.880 --> 0:13:21.480 forgot the context either it was you know, because the 0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:25.679 Panamanian authorities didn't really care. It's that's how it's framed 0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:29.160 for a lot of people. But I think probably Joe's correct. 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:32.280 It's just that those that wasn't available. Yeah, it probably 0:13:32.280 --> 0:13:34.240 takes a while for the alarms to really start going 0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:35.960 off and people can't get lost for a few days 0:13:35.960 --> 0:13:38.760 in the journalists not necessarily gonna you know, going to 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:41.800 be fatal because especially on those conditions, yeah, nice weather 0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:43.839 and everything. And now so even if they've fallen down 0:13:43.840 --> 0:13:46.280 and broken a leg, for example, they're not going to 0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:48.480 die of exposure in a couple of days time or 0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:50.920 there they're starvation or anything else. They gotta get bit 0:13:51.000 --> 0:13:53.520 by a lot of bugs. That's not gonna be plus well, 0:13:53.559 --> 0:13:56.679 I mean, but but they're they're it's very easy and 0:13:56.760 --> 0:14:00.280 obvious to just make this, you know, the observation they're 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:04.600 totally greenhorns. They totally have no idea what they're doing 0:14:04.640 --> 0:14:07.560 because they're not from that area. To me, it would 0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:10.960 seem like you would try and rustle up as many 0:14:11.000 --> 0:14:13.880 people as possible right away, because people who don't know 0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:18.400 what they're doing make stupid decisions. Yeah, well probably if 0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:20.920 you're talking about the searchers versus Yeah, the searchers and 0:14:21.520 --> 0:14:23.680 their locals, they probably know the area pretty well. But 0:14:23.760 --> 0:14:25.160 still it's now you need a lot of people to 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:28.840 go searching the jungle, right Yeah, I mean now that 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:31.120 I remember the map of it, Okay, I got you. Yeah, 0:14:31.280 --> 0:14:33.240 they probably just they probably just like headed out the 0:14:33.240 --> 0:14:34.760 trail to see what they were, like, sitting by the 0:14:34.800 --> 0:14:37.520 trail with a broken leg or something like that. On 0:14:37.680 --> 0:14:41.360 April seven, the search was on in Earnest. That's like 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:46.440 a whole week after they then reported missing. And on 0:14:46.560 --> 0:14:49.320 April eight, in fact, the parents of both of the 0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:53.160 girls flew in from the Netherlands and came with a 0:14:53.200 --> 0:14:59.880 couple of Dutch detectives and twelve trained Dutch dogs. Seven 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:03.760 we're searching rescue dogs and five were cadaver dogs. Um, 0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:08.800 so these detectives were they like official or privatized or official? Yeah? 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:12.280 I guess it turns out the Netherlands like super cares 0:15:12.320 --> 0:15:18.440 about their citizens or something. Yeah, I guess not that 0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:22.640 or it was like a slow crime week the detectives 0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:24.800 were like, we gotta do something like that. Seems like 0:15:24.840 --> 0:15:27.080 it's interesting, let's go do that. Yeah, what the hell 0:15:27.080 --> 0:15:29.200 you get to go to Panama for free? Oh? Man? No, 0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:32.680 so that dogs would get these um what what's called 0:15:32.760 --> 0:15:35.880 hits right when they react to the smell of the 0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:38.320 people they're looking for. But it turns out that they 0:15:38.320 --> 0:15:41.840 were all places that the volunteers had searched previously. You know, 0:15:41.840 --> 0:15:44.080 on the first couple of nights. The first night that 0:15:44.120 --> 0:15:46.720 the searchers spent out in the middle of the night 0:15:47.120 --> 0:15:51.240 was April eighth, sending up white flares and making noises 0:15:51.280 --> 0:15:53.880 and you know, having lights and all that stuff, hoping 0:15:53.920 --> 0:15:56.360 that the girls would either hear and see these things 0:15:56.400 --> 0:15:59.080 and call out or signal back or make their way 0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:02.480 to them. That's a fairly typical I think search and 0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:06.800 rescue technique in the jungle like that. Yeah, when it's 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:09.040 that vast of an area, it's an easy way to 0:16:09.080 --> 0:16:13.720 get somebody's attention. Yeah, they didn't, the girls didn't show. Eventually, 0:16:13.760 --> 0:16:16.400 the search was scaled back. The search party spent five 0:16:16.400 --> 0:16:19.480 consecutive nights out in the jungle doing that same kind 0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:21.920 of behavior of you know, flares and all that stuff 0:16:22.440 --> 0:16:26.080 and the girls were lost presumed dead. You know, I 0:16:26.120 --> 0:16:28.240 think this two really would have benefited from a book. 0:16:28.320 --> 0:16:31.160 This book is called Alone in the Wild by Marcus Duke. 0:16:31.560 --> 0:16:33.960 Actually the whole title is Alone in the Wild The 0:16:34.120 --> 0:16:36.800 Essentials of Wilderness Survival. Yeah, that sounds like that would 0:16:36.840 --> 0:16:40.640 have been helpful. Yeah, yeah, I might need to get this. Yeah, 0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:43.920 I think I think so. Yeah. I mean I can 0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:46.160 look it up if you want, but you know, probably 0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:53.520 it's cliok, like, oh look, it's not audible quird. So, 0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:56.880 as you know, Audible is our sponsor for this episode, 0:16:57.040 --> 0:16:59.920 and if you would like to know how to survive 0:17:00.040 --> 0:17:02.960 in the wilderness alone, this would be a really good 0:17:03.000 --> 0:17:05.919 find for you. You can go to audible podcast dot 0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:09.520 com slash thinking sideways and start your free trial and 0:17:09.760 --> 0:17:12.200 get a free download book. It's a free thirty day 0:17:12.200 --> 0:17:15.240 trial and a free audio book. Um. You know, for 0:17:15.280 --> 0:17:17.720 whatever reason this doesn't like float your boat or whatever 0:17:18.200 --> 0:17:20.240 I think there they have like over a hundred and 0:17:20.320 --> 0:17:24.200 fifty thousand titles and growing and growing every day, um 0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:27.040 and no questions asked return policy if for whatever reason 0:17:27.080 --> 0:17:29.120 you don't like the book, So I would say, that's 0:17:29.160 --> 0:17:32.760 like pretty worth it. This would help a lot of people. 0:17:33.280 --> 0:17:36.600 And I'm pretty sure that Audible's got an app so 0:17:36.640 --> 0:17:38.440 you can put it on your phone or your tablet 0:17:38.600 --> 0:17:41.240 or wherever, so you know, you don't have to be 0:17:41.320 --> 0:17:44.680 online to read it, you don't have to stream it. Yeah, 0:17:45.480 --> 0:17:50.600 that's great down yeah, man, So well, it's kind of cool. 0:17:50.720 --> 0:17:52.760 Any when I'm lost in the woods or the wilderness 0:17:52.800 --> 0:17:54.040 or whatever, I'd like to be able to pull up 0:17:54.080 --> 0:17:56.480 my tablet and kill some time by reading something. You're 0:17:56.480 --> 0:18:00.000 watching a movie, but yeah, or listening to an audible book. Yeah. Absolute. 0:18:00.320 --> 0:18:04.159 So Audible podcast dot com, slash Thinking, sideways get it 0:18:04.200 --> 0:18:09.320 for free now today. You never know when you might 0:18:09.320 --> 0:18:11.920 get lost in the woods. That's right. I don't think 0:18:11.920 --> 0:18:15.560 i'd take my tablet into the woods. Your phone though, maybe. Yeah, no, 0:18:15.680 --> 0:18:19.240 I could see I could see that. Yeah, it makes sense, 0:18:19.920 --> 0:18:23.800 just speaking of taking cell phones into the woods. Now, 0:18:24.320 --> 0:18:27.280 did I remember quickly they had cell phones? Right? So 0:18:27.320 --> 0:18:30.000 this is hey, this is where the quotation marks around 0:18:30.040 --> 0:18:34.399 disappearance come in. On June forty four days after the 0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:38.200 search was pretty much just you know, gone, a man 0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:41.399 and his wife were planting I think it was rice, 0:18:41.760 --> 0:18:43.720 but it could have been some other kind of crop 0:18:43.800 --> 0:18:48.080 in their fields by a river and decided, well, it's hot, 0:18:48.320 --> 0:18:50.560 let's go take a dip in the river to cool down. 0:18:51.240 --> 0:18:54.680 So they did, and as they're swimming around, they looked 0:18:54.680 --> 0:18:58.000 over and saw something very curious and bush over there. 0:18:58.480 --> 0:19:03.639 It was a blue backpack, which you don't know because 0:19:03.680 --> 0:19:05.639 you haven't seen the pictures and you don't know my brain, 0:19:05.720 --> 0:19:08.080 but it is the color of the backpack that Lisanne 0:19:08.119 --> 0:19:12.320 was carrying when the girls disappeared on April one. Was this, um, 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:15.760 I have not figured I'd not figured out if this 0:19:15.840 --> 0:19:17.480 was like right on the edge of the river, like 0:19:17.480 --> 0:19:19.840 it had floated down the river and wound up just 0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:21.720 sort of lots and some stuff, and the river was 0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:24.280 seated a little bit, or was it above the river? 0:19:24.840 --> 0:19:28.240 It was above the river in like a bush significantly 0:19:28.280 --> 0:19:34.119 above but the ver Yeah, but on the river path. Well, actually, 0:19:34.160 --> 0:19:36.600 the water flow between April and June probably dropped quite 0:19:36.600 --> 0:19:38.920 a bit, so it's quite possible. Yeah, And there was 0:19:38.960 --> 0:19:41.120 a lot of in the in the forty four days 0:19:41.119 --> 0:19:42.919 in between. There was a lot of flash flooding that 0:19:43.000 --> 0:19:45.720 was happening and things like that. So it's it's pretty 0:19:45.800 --> 0:19:49.640 much just generally accepted that the backpack floated there and 0:19:50.400 --> 0:19:53.399 ended up there in the water lowered and it just 0:19:53.400 --> 0:19:57.120 stayed there. Anyways, it was in fact Lisan's backpack. They 0:19:57.119 --> 0:19:58.800 found it and they turned it in because there was 0:19:58.800 --> 0:20:03.160 a lot of publicity around this in Panama, this disappearance 0:20:03.200 --> 0:20:05.760 and that, you know, there were pictures of the backpack 0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:07.919 that you know, or some a pack pack like it, 0:20:08.000 --> 0:20:10.399 So everybody kind of knew that if you found a 0:20:10.440 --> 0:20:13.800 backpack like that, you just turn it in. Contain neatly 0:20:13.880 --> 0:20:18.480 packed within were two pairs of cheap sunglasses, eighty three 0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:23.120 dollars in US money to cell phones, a camera, and 0:20:23.320 --> 0:20:27.240 two broads neatly folded. The area in which the backpack 0:20:27.320 --> 0:20:30.440 was found was about eight hours as the crow flies, 0:20:30.720 --> 0:20:34.040 or like six and a half miles from the last 0:20:34.080 --> 0:20:37.080 place that they were photographed. That so that's eight and 0:20:37.080 --> 0:20:41.520 a half hours away on foot, eight hours away on 0:20:42.560 --> 0:20:45.680 six and a half miles. This is where I think 0:20:45.680 --> 0:20:49.440 our story gets a little more tragic. You know, it's 0:20:49.480 --> 0:20:53.800 already a little tragic. But the days that followed the discovery, 0:20:53.880 --> 0:20:57.000 the searchers found two boots, one that still had a 0:20:57.000 --> 0:21:01.680 foot inside of it. See the sailorsh see foot phenomenon 0:21:05.000 --> 0:21:07.800 the both the boots they were they weren't a match 0:21:07.880 --> 0:21:10.120 to each other, but they were both matches to the 0:21:10.119 --> 0:21:12.719 boots seen in the photos for each of the girls. 0:21:13.040 --> 0:21:18.159 Well then they were also Yeah, one of them was 0:21:18.920 --> 0:21:22.320 only manufactured them. Yeah, the other one was I think 0:21:22.359 --> 0:21:26.359 like for some reason, presume they were both. They also 0:21:26.600 --> 0:21:31.000 found part of a pelvic bone clean public bone cross shop. 0:21:31.400 --> 0:21:34.600 DNA testing revealed that the bones belonged to Lausanne and Chris. 0:21:35.280 --> 0:21:37.960 As the investigators started to look at the photos on 0:21:38.000 --> 0:21:41.160 the camera and their cell phones, this kind of tragic thing, 0:21:42.280 --> 0:21:47.680 this kind of tragic story started to take hold. Uh. 0:21:47.760 --> 0:21:50.520 They started to look at the it's the exit data 0:21:50.720 --> 0:21:54.560 is that how you say it? Yeah, on the photos, 0:21:54.560 --> 0:21:59.119 and that contains time and GPS location for some things, 0:21:59.680 --> 0:22:03.600 you know, kind of like basic information. Yeah. We talked 0:22:03.600 --> 0:22:06.800 about that kind of data being attached in the Cicada 0:22:07.680 --> 0:22:10.080 one episode, that you can attach data to photos like 0:22:10.119 --> 0:22:14.440 that and they're automatically attached for most cameras, Yeah, most 0:22:14.480 --> 0:22:17.920 modern cameras, digital cameras do it automatically. People don't even 0:22:17.960 --> 0:22:21.760 realize that information is tagged right into the file anymore. 0:22:21.840 --> 0:22:23.960 And you can turn it off on your iPhone I know, 0:22:24.560 --> 0:22:26.760 I think you can turn it off on most most advices, 0:22:26.880 --> 0:22:28.920 you have to go in and do it, so yeah, 0:22:28.960 --> 0:22:32.000 it's not easy to do. And this kind of thing 0:22:32.080 --> 0:22:34.800 that scares me. This is like my most haunting bit 0:22:34.880 --> 0:22:37.680 of this story is that the girls, at least one 0:22:37.680 --> 0:22:40.239 of the girls, had been alive and desperately trying to 0:22:40.240 --> 0:22:42.680 call out for help on the night of April eight, 0:22:43.560 --> 0:22:46.880 that night that the searchers all stayed out there are 0:22:47.400 --> 0:22:53.959 making outgoing phone calls. No, there was no service, so 0:22:54.359 --> 0:23:00.359 there are there's some data in attempts to call make calls, 0:23:00.359 --> 0:23:02.440