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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody. Today's episode is brought to you by audible

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Speaker 1: at audible podcast dot com. Slash Thinking Sideways, Thinking Sideways,

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Speaker 1: I don't just I'm you never know stories of things

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Speaker 1: we simply don't know the answer too. Hey, it's up.

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Speaker 1: It's a Thinking Sideways the podcast. I'm Devin, joined as usual,

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Speaker 1: I guess by Joe and Steve. Yeah, we're sure, um,

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Speaker 1: and this week I'm kind of breaking the rules a

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Speaker 1: little bit. If you're an avid listener or like you've

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Speaker 1: been in discussions with us on like Reddit or email,

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Speaker 1: we say this a lot too. We try to not

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Speaker 1: do mysteries that are like anything under five years old.

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Speaker 1: We try not to do with a few exceptions. I think, um,

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Speaker 1: the Alisa Lamb one and they seventy and I think

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Speaker 1: those are the only two that we've done so far.

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Speaker 1: I think that's right. Um, I don't know. We have

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Speaker 1: a lot of episodes. I don't know, so I did

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Speaker 1: not go through every single one, but I'm pretty sure

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Speaker 1: it's just been those two. But this mystery, it was

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Speaker 1: too good to pass up, um, and it was one

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Speaker 1: that I literally just learned about within the last week.

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Speaker 1: And we're going to talk about it. Where did you

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Speaker 1: learn about it? Um? In internet? Uh So it's we're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about the disappearance quote unquote disappearance of

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Speaker 1: Lasanne Froun and Chris Creamer's Creamers. It's their Dutch names,

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Speaker 1: so it's hard not gredation there. It is Lisianne and Chris,

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Speaker 1: so I'm going to call them by their first names.

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Speaker 1: They are twenty two and twenty one years old, respectively,

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Speaker 1: and they are young women from the Netherlands. There Dutch.

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Speaker 1: They had saved up for about six months to travel

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Speaker 1: from the Netherlands to Panama to spend a couple of

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Speaker 1: months there. They traveled like kind of did tourist stuff

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Speaker 1: for a couple of weeks, and then their plan was

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Speaker 1: to go to this small town and kind of the

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Speaker 1: like northern kind of almost the northern border actually of

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Speaker 1: Panama and uh teach for a couple of weeks. Do

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Speaker 1: we know what they were teaching? Okay? I I didn't

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Speaker 1: Maybe English, maybe Spanish, I can't remember. It was a

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Speaker 1: language I think of some maybe Dutch, probably not, but maybe.

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Speaker 1: I mean it seems like the you know used for

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Speaker 1: Dutch in Panama and kind of like, you know in

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Speaker 1: rural Panama. Yeah. I was gonna say, if this was

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Speaker 1: you know, along the ports or something, it would totally

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Speaker 1: makes sense. But if you're a rural area, that doesn't

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Speaker 1: make a whole lot of sense. But hard saying. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So they traveled to this small town called Bookheat. Is

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Speaker 1: that how you would say that? I believe, Yeah, I don't.

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Speaker 1: I have no idea either. They were going to stay

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Speaker 1: with a host family, which is the way that a

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Speaker 1: lot of young travelers do. That they settled in, they

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Speaker 1: went to check in to like work. They're like, we're here,

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Speaker 1: ready to work. It's I think Sunday or who knows

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Speaker 1: what day it is, I don't remember, but we're gonna

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Speaker 1: we're gonna start working. And the person who ran that school,

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Speaker 1: who's an American woman, said, oh, no, you can't work

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Speaker 1: until next week. You have a week to kill. They

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Speaker 1: had an entire week. Yeah, okay, I thought less than

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Speaker 1: time than that, I'll go play to Arista for a

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Speaker 1: while longer. Yeah. So it turns out actually lists Anne

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Speaker 1: was like very upset about that. She even reportedly wrote

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Speaker 1: in her diary about how mad she was that they

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Speaker 1: couldn't start teaching. I don't know if that was, you know,

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Speaker 1: she just wanted to get on with it. If she

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Speaker 1: was annoyed that the I guess maybe some communication had

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Speaker 1: gone awry. I don't know why she was so so

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Speaker 1: mad about it. Maybe she had mapped at her trip

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Speaker 1: very carefully. Maybe she wanted to do maybe she was

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Speaker 1: a planner like that. Yeah, well, anyways, it meant, you know,

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Speaker 1: this area is very jungle filled. It's like very close

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Speaker 1: to the continental divide, and so it meant they had

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Speaker 1: a week to kill. And the next day they contacted

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Speaker 1: a guy in in Panama. Apparently. I've never been um,

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Speaker 1: but in Panama apparently there you can hire a tour

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Speaker 1: guide for just about anything, especially trails in the area.

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Speaker 1: So one of the things they did was they booked

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Speaker 1: a tour guide for a trail. They booked a tour

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Speaker 1: guide to take them on this trail called the Pianist.

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Speaker 1: The Pianist, which is, depending on the source, either a

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Speaker 1: very easy few hours walk through lush jungle with a

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Speaker 1: huge payoff. You at the divide at the top of

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Speaker 1: the mountains up there, or a super treacherous path riddled

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Speaker 1: with hard terrain and is like really dangerous to do.

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Speaker 1: I've done a lot of research on this, and as

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Speaker 1: far as I can tell, it seems like the path

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Speaker 1: up the mountain to the divide is like pretty easy.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I wouldn't say that, you know, it's just

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Speaker 1: like a stroll. It's not paved. It's uphill. It is,

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Speaker 1: you know, definitely uphill, but it's not like a climb.

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Speaker 1: You don't have to be, you know, a super experienced hiker. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: a lot of It's like a lot of trails in Oregon.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's the easy part and yeah, and then

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Speaker 1: the easy part or the not easy part is on

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Speaker 1: the other side of the divide. It seems like I've

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Speaker 1: watched a lot of videos of people like walking around

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Speaker 1: in this area, and it does seem like, you know,

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Speaker 1: I guess if it was like flooded, if it was

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Speaker 1: super wet and soggy, maybe it would be dangerous or

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Speaker 1: hard to navigate. But on April one, which is when

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Speaker 1: these girls were in the area, it was beautiful. It

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Speaker 1: was like really nice weather and really sunny and nice

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Speaker 1: and so anyways, so that a tornado didn't get him.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, so they and their plan, I presume was

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Speaker 1: just to go to the top, look around, and come

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Speaker 1: back the easy way again. Well, and I you know,

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Speaker 1: that's kind of a question, honestly, is um they hired

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Speaker 1: this this guide for April second in the morning, who

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Speaker 1: was going to take them on the trail? They they

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Speaker 1: arranged for that and everything, and then on the first

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Speaker 1: April one, eleven am, they just decided, you know what,

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Speaker 1: let's just do that trail today, I guess, as far

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Speaker 1: as anyone can tell, which is odd to me, I'll

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Speaker 1: be honest, it's a little weird that you would, you know,

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Speaker 1: book a guide to take you on a trail and

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Speaker 1: then just hike it the day before. Yeah, that doesn't

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Speaker 1: make a lot of sense to me. Any Let's get

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Speaker 1: back to the story. You know, kind of just talked

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Speaker 1: for a little bit there. So at about eleven am

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Speaker 1: on April one, Lausanne and Chris took off to walk

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Speaker 1: with Lisanne's backpack with bottled water. And you know, it

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Speaker 1: doesn't seem like they had snacks or really anything. It

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Speaker 1: just seems like they did have bottles of water, and

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Speaker 1: they had their phones and their cameras and a little

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Speaker 1: money UM. And they had searched for directions to the

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Speaker 1: trail from where they were UM on their computers before

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Speaker 1: they left their homes day. And there are some reports

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Speaker 1: that they had brunch that morning at a cafe before

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Speaker 1: they left. It's not totally clear if that happened or not.

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Speaker 1: It's also not clear, uh, if it's true or not

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Speaker 1: that the reports of two young Dutch gentlemen joining them

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Speaker 1: for that meal was true. But what is certain is

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Speaker 1: that it's uncertain how they got from where they were

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Speaker 1: staying in their homes day to the trailhead. I guess

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Speaker 1: it was a bit of a you would have had

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Speaker 1: to take a taxi or a bus or something like that.

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Speaker 1: That was a long walk them from there. Yeah, maybe

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Speaker 1: maybe the two Dutch guys gave him a ride. That

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Speaker 1: is thrown around is this is this is this part

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Speaker 1: of Panama I really popular with Dutch people. I guess

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Speaker 1: I don't know, Like these were Dutch men that like

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Speaker 1: they didn't they apparently didn't actually know, like they weren't

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Speaker 1: friends with them. They just approached them and had heard

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Speaker 1: that they were speaking Dutch and they were like, oh,

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Speaker 1: we're from the Netherlands to let's talk. I was gonna say, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: if you're in a foreign country, you're in a little restaurant,

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Speaker 1: you overhear a language that you know, you automatically gravitate

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Speaker 1: to that. Of course. Yeah, I mean whenever I travel,

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Speaker 1: I always meet people and wind up hanging out with them.

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Speaker 1: So the weather this happened in two thousand fourteen, I

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Speaker 1: guess I haven't actually set the dates out or anything

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Speaker 1: like that. April first, two thousand fourteen, and the weather

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Speaker 1: so not that long ago. That's why she admitted she

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Speaker 1: was breaking the rules earlier, super breaking the rules. So

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Speaker 1: the weather on the first of April two thousand fourteen

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Speaker 1: was high than the like nineties fahrenheit, which is thirties celsius,

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Speaker 1: and lows in the kind of low seventies, low twenties celsius.

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Speaker 1: Nice weather, yeah, I mean probably humid yet nineties and

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Speaker 1: humid for hiking. I don't know, I probably would like, well,

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Speaker 1: I suppose it was a really easy trail. I just

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Speaker 1: don't like. I'm not a hot weather per sure. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's it's not as though it was you know, freezing

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Speaker 1: cold and covering rain and all the times it wasn't

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Speaker 1: terrible conditions. They had with them a camera, it was

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Speaker 1: like a cannon or an icon, I can't remember. It

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Speaker 1: was a canon, and they had their phones and as

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Speaker 1: you did, imagine imagine, they took a couple of photos

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Speaker 1: in these like really picturesque locations. They're gorgeous photos. I've

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Speaker 1: seen some of the photos too, you know, and and

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Speaker 1: they look like they're having a great time. I would be, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's beautiful out there. And so they took photos of

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Speaker 1: each other, so they don't appear together in any photos.

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Speaker 1: You know, that's just two girls out hiking and say,

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Speaker 1: you know you, okay, you take a picture of me. Okay,

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Speaker 1: now I'll take a picture of you. It's you know.

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Speaker 1: So there's a picture of each of them at the

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Speaker 1: kind of summit at the Continental vide which is beautiful.

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Speaker 1: And then there are some pictures that are kind of

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Speaker 1: more like candid hiking shots of Chris that Listen presumably

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Speaker 1: took um I think it was her camera in fact,

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Speaker 1: and they show Chris not wearing a backpack, so we

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Speaker 1: presume that Lisanne was wearing the backpack as well. But

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Speaker 1: you know, they're just like from behind shots or like

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Speaker 1: you know, Chris standing by a waterfall and like posing,

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Speaker 1: and you know, none of those photos exist of Lissen.

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Speaker 1: They're all of Chris, so we know who like to

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Speaker 1: use the camera more than the other. Yeah, or you

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Speaker 1: know it was her camera, so you know, you would

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Speaker 1: just kind of assume if she was probably walking behind

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Speaker 1: Chris and she was just you know, snapping photos. Oh yeah, right,

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Speaker 1: some of them do kind of look more like, hey, Chris,

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Speaker 1: turn round, click, you know, pose for the picture. Then

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Speaker 1: on April two, when the girls failed to appear at

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Speaker 1: their appointment with the local guide, he got a little angry.

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Speaker 1: I don't think he was angry. The impression I have

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Speaker 1: is that he actually his first he was first concerned. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So he went to the house where they were home

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Speaker 1: staying and said, well, you know, did they oversleep? Did

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Speaker 1: they decide to cancel and not tell me what's going on?

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Speaker 1: And the family that they were supposed to be staying with, said, oh,

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Speaker 1: we even we haven't seen them. They left yesterday and

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Speaker 1: we haven't seen him. Since. It's not a good start,

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Speaker 1: not a great start. The family quickly reported the girls missing,

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Speaker 1: Although they attempted to report them missing like two times before,

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Speaker 1: they were officially reported missing. They're officially reported missing. I

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Speaker 1: think it was like at nine pm, so that obviously

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Speaker 1: it wasn't ideal. But apparently as soon as they were

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Speaker 1: reported missing, it was reported that the pan p how

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Speaker 1: do you say Panamanian Panamanian thank you authorities, they've sent

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Speaker 1: out huge search teams and search and rescuers immediately took

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Speaker 1: to the jungle to start searching. It turns out that

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Speaker 1: might not be true. It turns out that the brother

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Speaker 1: of the guide that they had hired, who's a farmer.

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Speaker 1: I think that the connection heard about it and got

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Speaker 1: some local volunteer farmers and all the others, and they

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Speaker 1: started searching. But it turns out that the official search

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Speaker 1: and rescue effort didn't start for a while. So wait

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Speaker 1: did wait? Wait? So maybe I didn't ever catch that

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Speaker 1: in the research They went out on the first, people

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Speaker 1: figured out they were missing on the morning of the second,

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Speaker 1: and eventually they're reported being The status of being missing

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Speaker 1: was finally acknowledged, but only a farmer. I want to

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Speaker 1: look for him. A farmer and some local volunteers. You know,

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Speaker 1: this is this is a little dinky town. There's probably

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Speaker 1: not like a huge you know, search and rescue team

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Speaker 1: available right there. Thank you. That Okay, it seems likely,

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Speaker 1: you know, it depends on where you read it. Completely

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Speaker 1: forgot the context either it was you know, because the

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Speaker 1: Panamanian authorities didn't really care. It's that's how it's framed

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Speaker 1: for a lot of people. But I think probably Joe's correct.

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Speaker 1: It's just that those that wasn't available. Yeah, it probably

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Speaker 1: takes a while for the alarms to really start going

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Speaker 1: off and people can't get lost for a few days

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Speaker 1: in the journalists not necessarily gonna you know, going to

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Speaker 1: be fatal because especially on those conditions, yeah, nice weather

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Speaker 1: and everything. And now so even if they've fallen down

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Speaker 1: and broken a leg, for example, they're not going to

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Speaker 1: die of exposure in a couple of days time or

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Speaker 1: there they're starvation or anything else. They gotta get bit

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Speaker 1: by a lot of bugs. That's not gonna be plus well,

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Speaker 1: I mean, but but they're they're it's very easy and

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Speaker 1: obvious to just make this, you know, the observation they're

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Speaker 1: totally greenhorns. They totally have no idea what they're doing

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Speaker 1: because they're not from that area. To me, it would

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Speaker 1: seem like you would try and rustle up as many

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Speaker 1: people as possible right away, because people who don't know

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Speaker 1: what they're doing make stupid decisions. Yeah, well probably if

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Speaker 1: you're talking about the searchers versus Yeah, the searchers and

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Speaker 1: their locals, they probably know the area pretty well. But

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Speaker 1: still it's now you need a lot of people to

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Speaker 1: go searching the jungle, right Yeah, I mean now that

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Speaker 1: I remember the map of it, Okay, I got you. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they probably just they probably just like headed out the

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Speaker 1: trail to see what they were, like, sitting by the

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Speaker 1: trail with a broken leg or something like that. On

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Speaker 1: April seven, the search was on in Earnest. That's like

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Speaker 1: a whole week after they then reported missing. And on

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Speaker 1: April eight, in fact, the parents of both of the

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Speaker 1: girls flew in from the Netherlands and came with a

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Speaker 1: couple of Dutch detectives and twelve trained Dutch dogs. Seven

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Speaker 1: we're searching rescue dogs and five were cadaver dogs. Um,

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Speaker 1: so these detectives were they like official or privatized or official? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I guess it turns out the Netherlands like super cares

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Speaker 1: about their citizens or something. Yeah, I guess not that

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Speaker 1: or it was like a slow crime week the detectives

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Speaker 1: were like, we gotta do something like that. Seems like

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Speaker 1: it's interesting, let's go do that. Yeah, what the hell

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Speaker 1: you get to go to Panama for free? Oh? Man? No,

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Speaker 1: so that dogs would get these um what what's called

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Speaker 1: hits right when they react to the smell of the

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Speaker 1: people they're looking for. But it turns out that they

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Speaker 1: were all places that the volunteers had searched previously. You know,

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Speaker 1: on the first couple of nights. The first night that

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Speaker 1: the searchers spent out in the middle of the night

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Speaker 1: was April eighth, sending up white flares and making noises

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Speaker 1: and you know, having lights and all that stuff, hoping

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Speaker 1: that the girls would either hear and see these things

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Speaker 1: and call out or signal back or make their way

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Speaker 1: to them. That's a fairly typical I think search and

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Speaker 1: rescue technique in the jungle like that. Yeah, when it's

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Speaker 1: that vast of an area, it's an easy way to

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Speaker 1: get somebody's attention. Yeah, they didn't, the girls didn't show. Eventually,

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Speaker 1: the search was scaled back. The search party spent five

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Speaker 1: consecutive nights out in the jungle doing that same kind

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Speaker 1: of behavior of you know, flares and all that stuff

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Speaker 1: and the girls were lost presumed dead. You know, I

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Speaker 1: think this two really would have benefited from a book.

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Speaker 1: This book is called Alone in the Wild by Marcus Duke.

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Speaker 1: Actually the whole title is Alone in the Wild The

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Speaker 1: Essentials of Wilderness Survival. Yeah, that sounds like that would

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Speaker 1: have been helpful. Yeah, yeah, I might need to get this. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think I think so. Yeah. I mean I can

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Speaker 1: look it up if you want, but you know, probably

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Speaker 1: it's cliok, like, oh look, it's not audible quird. So,

295
00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:56,880
Speaker 1: as you know, Audible is our sponsor for this episode,

296
00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:59,920
Speaker 1: and if you would like to know how to survive

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00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:02,960
Speaker 1: in the wilderness alone, this would be a really good

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00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:05,919
Speaker 1: find for you. You can go to audible podcast dot

299
00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:09,520
Speaker 1: com slash thinking sideways and start your free trial and

300
00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:12,200
Speaker 1: get a free download book. It's a free thirty day

301
00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:15,240
Speaker 1: trial and a free audio book. Um. You know, for

302
00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:17,720
Speaker 1: whatever reason this doesn't like float your boat or whatever

303
00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:20,240
Speaker 1: I think there they have like over a hundred and

304
00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:24,200
Speaker 1: fifty thousand titles and growing and growing every day, um

305
00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:27,040
Speaker 1: and no questions asked return policy if for whatever reason

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Speaker 1: you don't like the book, So I would say, that's

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00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:32,760
Speaker 1: like pretty worth it. This would help a lot of people.

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Speaker 1: And I'm pretty sure that Audible's got an app so

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00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:38,440
Speaker 1: you can put it on your phone or your tablet

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Speaker 1: or wherever, so you know, you don't have to be

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Speaker 1: online to read it, you don't have to stream it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's great down yeah, man, So well, it's kind of cool.

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Speaker 1: Any when I'm lost in the woods or the wilderness

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Speaker 1: or whatever, I'd like to be able to pull up

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Speaker 1: my tablet and kill some time by reading something. You're

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Speaker 1: watching a movie, but yeah, or listening to an audible book. Yeah. Absolute.

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Speaker 1: So Audible podcast dot com, slash Thinking, sideways get it

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00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:09,320
Speaker 1: for free now today. You never know when you might

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Speaker 1: get lost in the woods. That's right. I don't think

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Speaker 1: i'd take my tablet into the woods. Your phone though, maybe. Yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: I could see I could see that. Yeah, it makes sense,

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Speaker 1: just speaking of taking cell phones into the woods. Now,

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Speaker 1: did I remember quickly they had cell phones? Right? So

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Speaker 1: this is hey, this is where the quotation marks around

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Speaker 1: disappearance come in. On June forty four days after the

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Speaker 1: search was pretty much just you know, gone, a man

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Speaker 1: and his wife were planting I think it was rice,

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Speaker 1: but it could have been some other kind of crop

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Speaker 1: in their fields by a river and decided, well, it's hot,

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Speaker 1: let's go take a dip in the river to cool down.

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Speaker 1: So they did, and as they're swimming around, they looked

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Speaker 1: over and saw something very curious and bush over there.

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Speaker 1: It was a blue backpack, which you don't know because

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Speaker 1: you haven't seen the pictures and you don't know my brain,

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Speaker 1: but it is the color of the backpack that Lisanne

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Speaker 1: was carrying when the girls disappeared on April one. Was this, um,

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Speaker 1: I have not figured I'd not figured out if this

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Speaker 1: was like right on the edge of the river, like

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Speaker 1: it had floated down the river and wound up just

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Speaker 1: sort of lots and some stuff, and the river was

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Speaker 1: seated a little bit, or was it above the river?

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Speaker 1: It was above the river in like a bush significantly

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Speaker 1: above but the ver Yeah, but on the river path. Well, actually,

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Speaker 1: the water flow between April and June probably dropped quite

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Speaker 1: a bit, so it's quite possible. Yeah, And there was

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Speaker 1: a lot of in the in the forty four days

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Speaker 1: in between. There was a lot of flash flooding that

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Speaker 1: was happening and things like that. So it's it's pretty

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Speaker 1: much just generally accepted that the backpack floated there and

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Speaker 1: ended up there in the water lowered and it just

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Speaker 1: stayed there. Anyways, it was in fact Lisan's backpack. They

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Speaker 1: found it and they turned it in because there was

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Speaker 1: a lot of publicity around this in Panama, this disappearance

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Speaker 1: and that, you know, there were pictures of the backpack

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Speaker 1: that you know, or some a pack pack like it,

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Speaker 1: So everybody kind of knew that if you found a

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Speaker 1: backpack like that, you just turn it in. Contain neatly

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Speaker 1: packed within were two pairs of cheap sunglasses, eighty three

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Speaker 1: dollars in US money to cell phones, a camera, and

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Speaker 1: two broads neatly folded. The area in which the backpack

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Speaker 1: was found was about eight hours as the crow flies,

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Speaker 1: or like six and a half miles from the last

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Speaker 1: place that they were photographed. That so that's eight and

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Speaker 1: a half hours away on foot, eight hours away on

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Speaker 1: six and a half miles. This is where I think

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Speaker 1: our story gets a little more tragic. You know, it's

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Speaker 1: already a little tragic. But the days that followed the discovery,

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Speaker 1: the searchers found two boots, one that still had a

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Speaker 1: foot inside of it. See the sailorsh see foot phenomenon

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Speaker 1: the both the boots they were they weren't a match

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Speaker 1: to each other, but they were both matches to the

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Speaker 1: boots seen in the photos for each of the girls.

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Speaker 1: Well then they were also Yeah, one of them was

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Speaker 1: only manufactured them. Yeah, the other one was I think

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00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:26,359
Speaker 1: like for some reason, presume they were both. They also

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Speaker 1: found part of a pelvic bone clean public bone cross shop.

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Speaker 1: DNA testing revealed that the bones belonged to Lausanne and Chris.

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Speaker 1: As the investigators started to look at the photos on

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Speaker 1: the camera and their cell phones, this kind of tragic thing,

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00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:47,680
Speaker 1: this kind of tragic story started to take hold. Uh.

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Speaker 1: They started to look at the it's the exit data

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00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:54,560
Speaker 1: is that how you say it? Yeah, on the photos,

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Speaker 1: and that contains time and GPS location for some things,

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Speaker 1: you know, kind of like basic information. Yeah. We talked

385
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:06,800
Speaker 1: about that kind of data being attached in the Cicada

386
00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:10,080
Speaker 1: one episode, that you can attach data to photos like

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00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:14,440
Speaker 1: that and they're automatically attached for most cameras, Yeah, most

388
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:17,920
Speaker 1: modern cameras, digital cameras do it automatically. People don't even

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00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:21,760
Speaker 1: realize that information is tagged right into the file anymore.

390
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Speaker 1: And you can turn it off on your iPhone I know,

391
00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:26,760
Speaker 1: I think you can turn it off on most most advices,

392
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:28,920
Speaker 1: you have to go in and do it, so yeah,

393
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:32,000
Speaker 1: it's not easy to do. And this kind of thing

394
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:34,800
Speaker 1: that scares me. This is like my most haunting bit

395
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:37,680
Speaker 1: of this story is that the girls, at least one

396
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:40,239
Speaker 1: of the girls, had been alive and desperately trying to

397
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Speaker 1: call out for help on the night of April eight,

398
00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,880
Speaker 1: that night that the searchers all stayed out there are

399
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:53,959
Speaker 1: making outgoing phone calls. No, there was no service, so

400
00:22:54,359 --> 00:23:00,359
Speaker 1: there are there's some data in attempts to call make calls,

401
00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:02,440
Speaker 1: but we'll talk about those in like a second. What

402
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:06,119
Speaker 1: it was that they discovered was on the camera the

403
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:09,800
Speaker 1: Nike Honor Cannon canon. You keep telling me, and I

404
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:13,119
Speaker 1: just keep forgetting um. On the night of April eighth,

405
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:17,280
Speaker 1: there were ninety photos taken between the hours of one

406
00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:21,159
Speaker 1: am and four am, seven of which are just pure black,

407
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:27,440
Speaker 1: which suggests that they were trying to signal back with

408
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:31,919
Speaker 1: the flash to the search cruise. For whatever reason, they

409
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:35,600
Speaker 1: weren't mobile or they weren't able to find the search crew,

410
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:38,840
Speaker 1: but they saw the signals and we're trying to signal

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00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:42,240
Speaker 1: back with the flash and that didn't work. Apparently not.

412
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:44,359
Speaker 1: They should have like climbed up a tree or found

413
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:48,320
Speaker 1: the found some high ground that might have done it.

414
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:50,760
Speaker 1: Probably part of the problem is is that they've they've

415
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 1: got flares, like probably parachute flares up in the air,

416
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:56,600
Speaker 1: and so all that light and you know, and there

417
00:23:56,640 --> 00:24:00,760
Speaker 1: their little dickie flash was just gonna lost in the noise. Yep,

418
00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go through the timeline a little more. Joe

419
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,960
Speaker 1: was bringing up the phone calls and the pictures and

420
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 1: stuff like that, so let's just walk through it. There's

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00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 1: an infographic that I got most of this information off of.

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00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:16,440
Speaker 1: I've compensated. It's awesome. There's a couple of really great infographics.

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00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 1: Will post links to all of those on the website.

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00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:21,159
Speaker 1: But I pull a lot of information off of that,

425
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:24,000
Speaker 1: but also from other sources. So just bear with me.

426
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:25,359
Speaker 1: We're going to do that thing where I sit and

427
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:29,240
Speaker 1: talk at you for a while. Chris had an iPhone,

428
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 1: Lisanne had a Galaxy three S three. I'm pretty sure

429
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:36,399
Speaker 1: that that's who had which one, But I could have

430
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 1: gotten them flip flopped. And some of the information, like

431
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 1: I said, is hidden like really deep in forums, so

432
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 1: I've forgotten where everything came from. Well, I think what

433
00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 1: matters is that we know when was an iPhone and

434
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:59,720
Speaker 1: one was a Galaxy S three. Yes. And the other

435
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:04,160
Speaker 1: little tidbit is that, like the information about this story

436
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:07,280
Speaker 1: is in either Dutch or Spanish, neither of which I

437
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 1: speak or read. Translate that, yeah, you can, you can

438
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,880
Speaker 1: get Google to translate. It turns out that um Spanish

439
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:18,919
Speaker 1: is okay to like get in Google Translate, but Dutch

440
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:22,680
Speaker 1: it has a super hard time with. So sometimes you're

441
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 1: just kind of left out on the lurch. Yeah. I've

442
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:29,120
Speaker 1: read some of the things, the articles that were from

443
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 1: the Netherlands, and people just dumped him into Google Translate

444
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,920
Speaker 1: and then dumped him into the forums. And you're reading

445
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:38,120
Speaker 1: through and you're correcting it as you read it. You're

446
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 1: trying to that, but you don't know if you're correcting

447
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 1: it correctly exactly. I read one thing there there were

448
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 1: some ribs found eventually, and I read somebody had translated

449
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:53,640
Speaker 1: it um and the spare ribs were found, and yeah,

450
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 1: so just bear with me, please. On April one, at

451
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:02,119
Speaker 1: about eleven am, they took off. They started the trail.

452
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:06,440
Speaker 1: They arrived at the Continental Divide at about one pm.

453
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:08,639
Speaker 1: By the sun and the XF data on the camera.

454
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:10,680
Speaker 1: People you know, looked at the pictures and said, yeah,

455
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:12,719
Speaker 1: it's about where the sun would be. And also this

456
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 1: is what the data suggest. There had been some speculation

457
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 1: about the time tables being wrong because people thought that

458
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,920
Speaker 1: the cameras might have still been on the x F

459
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,399
Speaker 1: data recorded on the pictures might have still been on

460
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 1: Dutch time. But I don't think that that's true for

461
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,440
Speaker 1: a number of reasons, or if it is, they it's

462
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 1: been changed over. It seems they continued down the other

463
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:38,639
Speaker 1: side of the mountain and the continental continued to follow

464
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:41,439
Speaker 1: the path. And this is a fun fact about the

465
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 1: Continental Divide. I don't know if like a lot of

466
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:46,879
Speaker 1: people follow this or not, but the river would have

467
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 1: been running the opposite way, right, so it would have

468
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 1: been a different river, and that it would have been

469
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 1: flowing a different way. So if they had tried to

470
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 1: follow wherever, thinking oh, this will take us back to

471
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 1: the city, it turns out no, it won't. Yeah, So

472
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:07,439
Speaker 1: they when they went to the top of the Continental Divide,

473
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 1: and I've looked at the trail, and the trail does

474
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:13,359
Speaker 1: follow a river for a period of time. They would

475
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:16,679
Speaker 1: have been walking upstream. Yep. So if they hit the

476
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 1: other side of the divide and went downhill and found

477
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 1: a river and said, oh hey, there's the river, let's

478
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 1: follow it, they would have been heading downstream, but on

479
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 1: the opposite side of the peak and following a completely

480
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:33,639
Speaker 1: different river. Right, yes, right, at about two speaking of

481
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:36,920
Speaker 1: a river, U two pm, the last photo of Chris

482
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 1: was taken crossing a stream. She looks super happy and

483
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 1: calm and relaxed. You know, they're dressed for the weather,

484
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 1: the hot weather, tank tops and shorts or you know,

485
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:52,879
Speaker 1: stuff like that. Then at four thirty nine PM, the

486
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 1: iPhone tried to dial one one two, which is the

487
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 1: Dutch equivalent of one, and I'm pretty sure that Panama

488
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 1: you two one two one as well. Sorry numbers and stuff,

489
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure anyways. Then at four one the Samsung

490
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,639
Speaker 1: attempts to make the same call. Neither are connected to

491
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 1: the network, so neither go through. On April two, at

492
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 1: sixty six am, just right after sunrise, the Samsung attempts

493
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 1: the one one to call again, which does not go

494
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 1: through obviously. Then at four am, the iPhone tries the

495
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:36,639
Speaker 1: one one to call, which was not connected, and a

496
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 1: screenshot was taken of the phone right after the call

497
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 1: for reasons unknown. I you know, the screen capture function

498
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 1: on cell phones is always kind of an awkward thing.

499
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 1: I accidentally take screen caps of my phone. But you

500
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 1: gotta hold this button and twist your nose in this

501
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 1: right way and or just not what you're doing, grab

502
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 1: it and grip it, and it randomly takes him. So

503
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 1: I can just see that randomly happened. It's possible. Yeah, yes,

504
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 1: between between the six am col I presume they must

505
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 1: have maneuvered to a higher position, hoping. I don't know.

506
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 1: Con No, there's no there's no data in that. I mean, right,

507
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 1: you have no idea and they don't. And they didn't

508
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 1: realize that there's no one one two in Panama. Yeah,

509
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 1: at ten fifty three AM, a magnitude six point earthquake

510
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 1: rocks Panama, Panama City. Um, but you they felt it

511
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 1: in Bokotet or however you say Boet bokhet day or whatever.

512
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 1: I don't know. You're both wrong, probably and at this

513
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 1: actually almost this exact moment when they were feeling this earthquake,

514
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 1: the Samsung attempts the one one two and call both.

515
00:29:57,480 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 1: I think somebody who thought you know, one of the

516
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 1: two must have been oh yeah, maybe it's nine one

517
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 1: one here. Maybe it's not well, but they've been trying

518
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 1: both numbers. This is the first time they die online

519
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 1: one one Oh okay, I was thinking that they had

520
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 1: been trying nine one one and one one to just

521
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 1: one one too. I can tell this point. The call

522
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 1: is not connected again. At one six pm, the Samsung

523
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 1: again attempts a one one to slash nine one one

524
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:30,480
Speaker 1: call both and the nine one call nine one one

525
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,479
Speaker 1: call is briefly connected like for a second and then

526
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 1: drops out. That's frustrating. Yeah, um, so, so obviously they

527
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,080
Speaker 1: must have been moving around trying to find coverage, I think,

528
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 1: and move around. There's a lot of theories around that, right,

529
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 1: I mean, something obviously must have happened to one of

530
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 1: them that made it so that they could not make

531
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 1: it back out. Yeah. Probably somebody broke a leg, something

532
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 1: got bit by a spider or we'll talk about that,

533
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,959
Speaker 1: you know, in theories. But this that's you know, one

534
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 1: of the things is you can only move around so much.

535
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 1: If one of you is not mobile. You're not gonna

536
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 1: want to just leave your friend and like wander because

537
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 1: you don't know your way back to that person. You

538
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 1: don't want to both be lost separately from each other.

539
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 1: You know, this is why you don't go into haunted

540
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 1: houses and then split up. Same theory if we've learned

541
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 1: anything from horror movies and we don't do that. Yeah,

542
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 1: and I always carry a gun. That that moment where

543
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 1: it's connected, where the nine one one call was connected,

544
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 1: is the only time any of these calls was connected,

545
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 1: just as a as a fact. And then at nine

546
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 1: pm that evening, the girls are officially reported missing. On

547
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 1: April three, at eight am, the search and rescue teams

548
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 1: start to patrol the area with a helicopter. So that's

549
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 1: when they finally deployed. So you know, the next day,

550
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 1: at nine thirty two, the iPhone attempts to make a

551
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 1: nine one one only call. At this point, I think

552
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 1: they had figured out that it's nine because they connected

553
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 1: on This is the last call that was made for

554
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 1: a really long time. Then, uh, and the phones are

555
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 1: starting to get switched off. They're turning them off, I

556
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:12,840
Speaker 1: think to preserve battery. And actually, when you hear how

557
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 1: long these phones lasted, like, it's smart, smart move. Yeah,

558
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 1: because you know what Pandora trying to run in the

559
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 1: background and run in your battery down right totally or

560
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 1: like you know, your phone to be searching constantly for

561
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 1: a signal it'll drink. Yeah. At one fifty pm, the

562
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 1: iPhone was switched on. And I didn't realize that they

563
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 1: can pull data from your iPhone of when it's turned

564
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 1: on and when it's turned off like that it logs

565
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 1: every time it's turned on, but apparently they can. I

566
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 1: am not surprised by that at all. Yeah, and then uh,

567
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 1: four pm, the Samsung was turned on, and four sixteen

568
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 1: the iPhone was turned on. That's it for that night.

569
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 1: At four fifty am on April four the Samsung is

570
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,760
Speaker 1: turn and on and then dies. The battery dies at

571
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 1: five am. The iPhone is switched on at one six

572
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 1: or ten sixteen and one forty two, and that stays

573
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:14,959
Speaker 1: super consistent through the next few days. I don't know

574
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 1: if one of the girls was wearing a watch or what,

575
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 1: but like super consistent. So then on the fifth, the

576
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 1: iPhone was switched on at ten fifty am and one

577
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 1: seven pm. At one thirty seven there was no pin

578
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 1: entered to unlock the phone, which people think is significant

579
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 1: for some reason. I think it's probably not really I

580
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 1: have my ideas, but I'll hold it for the theory section. Well,

581
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 1: now you have a you have an iPhone, right, yeah,

582
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 1: and so when you turn when you turn yours on,

583
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 1: even without putting the pinion, can you look and see

584
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 1: how many bars you have? Yeah, so no sense putting

585
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 1: the pen and if you can see, you've got no signal.

586
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 1: I agree with that. And then on April six, the

587
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 1: iPhone is switched on at ten six am and one

588
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 1: thirty seven again pm. Again no pin ender entered at

589
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 1: either time, and that was it. Nothing on the seventh.

590
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 1: There's no data from the seventh. And then on April eight,

591
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 1: in the early morning from one to four am on

592
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 1: April eight, what many people would consider the night of

593
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 1: the seventh, right, but it's the early morning on the eighth.

594
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:24,840
Speaker 1: That's when those nine pictures were taken with the camera.

595
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 1: As mentioned, seven of them are just black. A lot

596
00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:32,240
Speaker 1: of people I haven't seen them. They haven't been released,

597
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:34,839
Speaker 1: so a lot of people think maybe the lens cap

598
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 1: was on. I don't think cameras take pictures with lens

599
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 1: caps on. This was a point and shoot. It didn't

600
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 1: have a lens cap. It has a built in shutter,

601
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:48,319
Speaker 1: but it's one of those ones. As soon as you

602
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 1: turn it on, the shutter opens, it's ready to rock.

603
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 1: So for me, that's that means that they were just

604
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,399
Speaker 1: taking pictures into the sky, possibly right, because you're if

605
00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 1: you're covered, you're going to find an uncovered as much

606
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 1: of an uncovered areas possible. Otherwise you're gonna see reflections

607
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:05,799
Speaker 1: of trees and stuff like that. So again, I don't

608
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:08,359
Speaker 1: know nobody's seeing these pictures. No, I mean you don't.

609
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:11,319
Speaker 1: None of the amateurs have seen these pictures, so I

610
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:15,319
Speaker 1: don't know how quote unquote totally black they are. But

611
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 1: there are three that are not. They have all been released.

612
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 1: One was a blurry photo that appeared to be like

613
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:26,279
Speaker 1: the back or the side of Chris's head. It's just

614
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:28,319
Speaker 1: like her blurry hair. I'll show it to you guys

615
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,759
Speaker 1: in studio in a second. Um links of course on

616
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 1: my website. One photo of like a rock wall with

617
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 1: vegetation overhanging it. And one photo that creeps a lot

618
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:41,279
Speaker 1: of people out but doesn't creep me out. That's a

619
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,239
Speaker 1: small branch with two pieces of red plastic tied on it,

620
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 1: and there's like either a gum wrapper or like one

621
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:51,120
Speaker 1: of those single servo serving pill packets underneath it. And

622
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:54,880
Speaker 1: I guess some people look at that and think that

623
00:35:54,960 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 1: the red plastic is skin, which I literally can't even

624
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:03,279
Speaker 1: and like talk myself into it looking like No, that

625
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:07,840
Speaker 1: that looks like if anybody's ever gone into the woods

626
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 1: in an area where they were gonna, let's say, fell

627
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:14,720
Speaker 1: trees or they mark trees and it's set that really

628
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 1: thin red material. It's it's kind of elastic flagging. Yeah,

629
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:23,840
Speaker 1: it's flagging, and that looks like shreds of stuff. That's

630
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 1: that same consistency of material. It's just a little pieces

631
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:29,400
Speaker 1: of plastic. And now this is a This is a

632
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:31,560
Speaker 1: picture on the right, correct, Yeah, I have a better

633
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:33,160
Speaker 1: one of that. This is the only one. There's the

634
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 1: picture of the side of Chris's head in, but I

635
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:38,399
Speaker 1: have the other other two ones. I'll show you just now.

636
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,360
Speaker 1: This is the one that people talk about being the

637
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 1: rock wall. It looks to me more like it's a

638
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:47,719
Speaker 1: you know, it maybe just be the orientation, but it

639
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:50,839
Speaker 1: kind of looks like a path to me. Honestly, Um,

640
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 1: it's hard to tell. It almost looks like ruts, like

641
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:57,200
Speaker 1: they're on the road with with wheel ruts or something

642
00:36:57,239 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 1: like that. And then this is that one that creeps

643
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,319
Speaker 1: pe pull out. And I should say that there have

644
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 1: been reports that red bags similar to that were found

645
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 1: in their belongings, in uh, their rooms at their homestay,

646
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 1: um for whatever reason. You know. They're like doggie bags

647
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 1: or something. I was gonna say, it's almost like a

648
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:19,920
Speaker 1: cheap takeout plastic yea. So I don't know if like

649
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:22,360
Speaker 1: one of the girls was like, you know, keeping stuff

650
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:24,800
Speaker 1: in there or like what you know, like it's totally

651
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:27,439
Speaker 1: possible you just take them with you, maybe to put

652
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:30,279
Speaker 1: trash in if you you know, I don't know, Well,

653
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 1: depending on where you're going. In some places you have

654
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:37,760
Speaker 1: to carry your poop out. Seriously, Uh, those two handled

655
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:41,839
Speaker 1: grocery bags are actually quite handy for that. But I'm

656
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 1: wondering if they actually took those bags out and empty

657
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:47,760
Speaker 1: them type into the branch just as a signal flag.

658
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:51,720
Speaker 1: That's that's the theory. Is the tiniest little signal flag

659
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:54,040
Speaker 1: I ever did see, though, Yeah, it's not gonna do

660
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 1: not really. And then behind that it looks like water

661
00:37:58,120 --> 00:37:59,919
Speaker 1: to me. There's a lot of speculation, but it looks

662
00:37:59,920 --> 00:38:04,320
Speaker 1: like reflection of the water. Would you say that that's accurate?

663
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:08,319
Speaker 1: It's accessible. It looks like it's a river, creeks something,

664
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 1: because there's a sharp delineation there. I mean, so I

665
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:13,440
Speaker 1: think that's probably water and it's not. It doesn't look

666
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:15,480
Speaker 1: like the ground that we saw on the previous pictures

667
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 1: or anything like that. And I guess the only like

668
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 1: kind of question on on that is like why I

669
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 1: take a picture of that. I as I look at that,

670
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:25,880
Speaker 1: I kind of had the same initial Oh, it's a

671
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:28,320
Speaker 1: that's they must be at the river, river or something.

672
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 1: But now, to me, if it's that dark out and

673
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:32,800
Speaker 1: you can barely make out the trees in the background,

674
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:38,279
Speaker 1: that looks like wet broadly foliage. To me, that's reflecting

675
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 1: moonlight or flash. Most likely it's probably the flat that

676
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 1: they've they've lit off by taken this photos. I question

677
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 1: that that's that they're near the river. Yeah. Actually, as

678
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:54,279
Speaker 1: I look at it more closely, it looks like it's

679
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:58,840
Speaker 1: maybe a little mound of mound of earth with foliage

680
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 1: in the background a little bit a little bit of

681
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:03,440
Speaker 1: a little bit further away. I mean, yeah, And actually

682
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 1: when I look at it, you know, the other thing

683
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 1: I can make it into is like trees like they're

684
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:10,240
Speaker 1: in a clearing and you can see like the trees

685
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:12,919
Speaker 1: kind of in the distance a little bit reflecting, and

686
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:15,440
Speaker 1: and that is that Is that the moon in the

687
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:18,239
Speaker 1: upper right or is that just refraction? I don't know,

688
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 1: I would be I'm going to say that's refraction because

689
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,880
Speaker 1: it looks like it's in a chunk of tree. Yeah,

690
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 1: it looks like it's speck of dust or something. Yeah. Anyways,

691
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 1: I still like it doesn't really matter, like the contents

692
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:32,839
Speaker 1: of the background of that picture, because like I still

693
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 1: I am not totally clear why you take a picture

694
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:40,240
Speaker 1: of that thing. And also a picture of the side

695
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 1: of Chris's head or the side or back of Chris's

696
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:45,640
Speaker 1: head or you know, there's a lot of people The

697
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:48,200
Speaker 1: other theory about these photos is that they were trying

698
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:50,399
Speaker 1: to use it to like light their way. That's kind

699
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:52,719
Speaker 1: of what I'm saying, you know, But I guess for me,

700
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 1: I have pretty good night vision, and I know that

701
00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 1: for me, if I'm walking outside and it's dark, I

702
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:05,319
Speaker 1: don't want to use a flashlight because it actually makes

703
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 1: it harder for me to see than just let your

704
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:11,800
Speaker 1: eyes adjust to the dark and kind of navigate that way. Well, certainly,

705
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 1: especially if it's just like a bright flash too. Exactly

706
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 1: using a flashlight is one thing, but just blinding yourself

707
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 1: with the flash of your camera. Yeah, okay, So this

708
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 1: is presumably after moonset. It's not after moon set, but

709
00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 1: it's after the moon went behind the mountain. And by

710
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:33,440
Speaker 1: this time, again, what side of the mountain where they

711
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:35,359
Speaker 1: have of the accoontable wide were they on? They were

712
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:39,760
Speaker 1: on the north side, north side the trail they took.

713
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:45,520
Speaker 1: It's kind of a north northeasterly trail. And then once

714
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:48,640
Speaker 1: they hit the other side. We're not positive that the

715
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:54,840
Speaker 1: things that were found were nearly directly north you know,

716
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:57,840
Speaker 1: these miles away, but it's it's all. They're all on

717
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:01,600
Speaker 1: the north side of the divide. Okay. The other thing

718
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,440
Speaker 1: that people suggest with these pictures or the use of

719
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:07,880
Speaker 1: the flashes, that they were trying to scare something away.

720
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 1: That seems like a long time to try and scare

721
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:13,120
Speaker 1: something away, especially if you've been sleeping in the jungle

722
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:18,880
Speaker 1: for a while and you have been dealing with whatever

723
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:22,520
Speaker 1: you would be scaring away. Likely, you know, they didn't

724
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:25,319
Speaker 1: know that any of the big predators that live in

725
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:29,239
Speaker 1: the jungle there aren't actually going to try and kill you.

726
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:32,799
Speaker 1: They're not doing they're kind of bashful. They might if

727
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 1: you were like a single small child, they might try,

728
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:38,800
Speaker 1: but like to you know, even adult sized, mildly adult

729
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 1: sized human beings, they're not. They're not going to try.

730
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:43,279
Speaker 1: And and also by this time they would have had

731
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 1: the brains, hopefully to secure some really big clubs from themselves,

732
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:50,920
Speaker 1: just in the event of something like that happened. I mean, like,

733
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:54,839
Speaker 1: I camera, which big cat it is that's in Panama.

734
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:59,240
Speaker 1: But other than a big cat or some ginormous snake,

735
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 1: there's not I can't really think of any other major

736
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:04,600
Speaker 1: predators that would be a threat to a human. It's

737
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 1: not it's the big cats, and the big cats aren't

738
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:09,759
Speaker 1: going to attack you, and a snake might. But right,

739
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:13,800
Speaker 1: that's again, that's that's why I'm asking. Those are very unlikely. Honestly,

740
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:16,960
Speaker 1: the creature the things that will kill you in this

741
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 1: area are poison snakes, snakes, and spiders. No, I didn't

742
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:24,280
Speaker 1: know a guy one time who backpacked through Central America

743
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:26,279
Speaker 1: and he said, I'm pretty sure he said it was

744
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:32,239
Speaker 1: in Panama. He was what's the word accosted by vampire bats. Yeah,

745
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 1: that wouldn't surprise me. And yeah, they were trying to

746
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:35,920
Speaker 1: they were trying to get through his mosquito netting and

747
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:38,799
Speaker 1: get at him, and yeah, and that would be unsettling. Yeah,

748
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 1: that would be So I would imagine that, you know,

749
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 1: maybe maybe driving away the the vampire bats with the

750
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:50,279
Speaker 1: with the flash. Maybe and certainly not for like three hours, right,

751
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 1: I mean consistently for three hours. That seems well. But

752
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:55,560
Speaker 1: if they're out in the middle of the night and

753
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 1: they smell prey, they're going to keep coming back. But

754
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:02,160
Speaker 1: then you, like, you find a new place to be, right,

755
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:04,520
Speaker 1: I mean, you find some more cover. You don't just

756
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:07,239
Speaker 1: sit there and like flash for three hours, you like

757
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:11,839
Speaker 1: any other cover, is the point. I guess, I don't

758
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:16,239
Speaker 1: I don't know. This is completely conjectured, is actually um,

759
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 1: but that would be another explanation for their their their

760
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:23,239
Speaker 1: stick with the bags tied to it would be with

761
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:26,120
Speaker 1: That's true, very good point. Although they're tiny little bits

762
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 1: of it looks like a very small stick break if

763
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:33,120
Speaker 1: I if I whacked you with that, it would snap. Yeah.

764
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 1: The other thing that people suggested, we're just going to like,

765
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 1: you know, deal with these pictures right now. One of

766
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:42,200
Speaker 1: the other things that I saw suggested around was that

767
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:44,880
Speaker 1: by this time it's likely that at least one of

768
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 1: them was could have potentially been hallucinating, either for you know,

769
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 1: lack of food or lack of sleep or lack of water,

770
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:55,120
Speaker 1: just fear or whatever, and that they were trying to

771
00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 1: capture pictures of what they were seeing, not what was

772
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 1: actually there. So that's also a theory out there. How

773
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:04,879
Speaker 1: much it holds, what you know, I don't know, but

774
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:09,480
Speaker 1: it's a it's a theory. Maybe they ate some bad

775
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 1: mushrooms or something. I mean, it's always possible if you're

776
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:14,000
Speaker 1: starving in the wilderness and you no idea what you're doing,

777
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:17,399
Speaker 1: it's always possible. Note to all of our listeners, if

778
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:22,760
Speaker 1: you're in the jungle or the woods, never eat mushrooms. Yeah,

779
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:31,040
Speaker 1: don't unless you know well, mushrooms basically have no caloric value,

780
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:35,919
Speaker 1: so it's not worth even taking the chance. Just don't

781
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:37,960
Speaker 1: do it. If I were here, that's the fact of

782
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:40,080
Speaker 1: the day. Okay, don't do it. Just don't do it.

783
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 1: Just don't do it. But yeah, yeah, there's so many

784
00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:45,799
Speaker 1: people out there have died from eating mushrooms, So yeah, kids,

785
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:47,320
Speaker 1: don't do it. Just take a lot of power bars

786
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:51,720
Speaker 1: with you when you go, hey, I'm gonna go get lost. Okay. Anyway,

787
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:57,560
Speaker 1: so the pictures on April eighth are it until April eleven,

788
00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:02,240
Speaker 1: at which time, uh, the iPhone was switched on again

789
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:07,760
Speaker 1: at ten one am and then eventually dies at eleven

790
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 1: fifty six a m. My iPhone barely last a day. Legitimately,

791
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:15,960
Speaker 1: I was out yesterday. I had been using it like

792
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:18,320
Speaker 1: a little bit, but I was out and my phone

793
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:22,320
Speaker 1: died while I was out at um I think seven pm.

794
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:24,040
Speaker 1: It made it from like seven A I made it

795
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:27,080
Speaker 1: twelve hours. That was it. So kudos on them for

796
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:29,640
Speaker 1: finding a way to make an iPhone last what was it,

797
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 1: ten days? That's incredible. It seems to me that, you know,

798
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:39,520
Speaker 1: the the off again on again strategy is a good one. Yeah,

799
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:42,120
Speaker 1: And the consistency of the off again on again is

800
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:44,919
Speaker 1: a super good strategy to you know that they were

801
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:47,839
Speaker 1: turning them on and off at the same time they

802
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:50,720
Speaker 1: were calling that kind of the same times. That's smart

803
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:55,080
Speaker 1: because if you unknowingly make it through and they you know,

804
00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:57,359
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, it gets dropped because it's gonna get

805
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 1: dropped search and rescue or emergency services, then have like

806
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:03,719
Speaker 1: a time frame they can see. They say, Okay, well

807
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:06,200
Speaker 1: they called it this time, so let's keep an eye out.

808
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:09,800
Speaker 1: Maybe they'll call it. But to correct me if I'm wrong,

809
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:12,960
Speaker 1: the one call that went through to one was that

810
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:16,320
Speaker 1: a different weird time. Well, but the point I'm getting

811
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:19,160
Speaker 1: at is it was no, it's it's noted because it

812
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:23,680
Speaker 1: was recorded on the phone. Is having connected but didn't

813
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:28,399
Speaker 1: stick long enough for one to know and log it

814
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 1: r that's true, So that there there's there's a bit

815
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:33,440
Speaker 1: of an issue that. I mean, I understand that the

816
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:35,279
Speaker 1: whole thing. It's just the logic of it. It's not

817
00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 1: It's kind of like it's kind of like you know

818
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:40,240
Speaker 1: when you when you when you actually hit that number

819
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:42,200
Speaker 1: and it goes to dial it and there's that lag

820
00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:44,920
Speaker 1: between when it actually starts ringing. I mean you connect

821
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:48,839
Speaker 1: before the ring starts. Yeah, So yeah, I mean it's

822
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 1: like like if I were to call you right now,

823
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:52,600
Speaker 1: your phone wouldn't start ringing for a little bit. My

824
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:55,439
Speaker 1: phone my phone will be going like oh yeah, going through,

825
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:57,880
Speaker 1: and your phone wouldn't know it for a while. Anyway,

826
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:00,680
Speaker 1: That's that's neither here nor there. That's so anyway, again,

827
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:05,760
Speaker 1: the data from the phones and also from the camera.

828
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 1: None of that stuff actually tells them what their course was.

829
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:15,160
Speaker 1: The authorities what the course because the phones didn't have STAIN,

830
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:18,680
Speaker 1: weren't connecting to anything. Well, the phone still have GPS

831
00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:21,239
Speaker 1: would still be working. I guess they weren't. I don't

832
00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:25,760
Speaker 1: know if they If they do know that path, they

833
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:30,879
Speaker 1: aren't releasing it. So I don't have that information. Somebody might,

834
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 1: I don't. I also do want to mention that I

835
00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:40,680
Speaker 1: have read on a various different forums that there were

836
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:43,279
Speaker 1: like six calls made from the iPhone at the end

837
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:46,239
Speaker 1: of the eleventh day or the eleventh of April, the

838
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:49,640
Speaker 1: tenth day. But I can't find a source for that,

839
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:51,520
Speaker 1: and I don't think that's true. I don't think that

840
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:53,359
Speaker 1: really happened. I think the phone just died. I don't

841
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:57,200
Speaker 1: think that six calls were made in rapid Yeah, it's

842
00:47:57,239 --> 00:47:59,120
Speaker 1: like somebody through that in for a little drama, because

843
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:05,080
Speaker 1: six rapid calls me something horrible. What's happening coming after us?

844
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:07,680
Speaker 1: We've got to get the cops in here, pretty much. Yeah.

845
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:10,279
Speaker 1: So that's that's the information that we have in terms

846
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:13,920
Speaker 1: of timeline, and there are of course some big questions

847
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:17,759
Speaker 1: here that we will probably never have answers to. One

848
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:20,040
Speaker 1: thing that a lot of people are saying they think

849
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:23,440
Speaker 1: is weird is that neither of the girls recorded like

850
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 1: a farewell of any kind. No like, no, no like video,

851
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:31,399
Speaker 1: no like picture, nothing. And I guess that's a thing

852
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 1: that you see in people who die, like in the wilderness,

853
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:37,799
Speaker 1: fairly frequently, people who know they're going to die, like,

854
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:40,640
Speaker 1: you know, leave a note that says, I love you mom,

855
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:43,560
Speaker 1: I love you dad, I'm so sorry, or this happened

856
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:45,920
Speaker 1: to us, and like it's horrible, horrible and awful and

857
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 1: I'm about to die and I love everybody, you know.

858
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 1: But that doesn't really bother me so much, I'll be honest. Well,

859
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:54,120
Speaker 1: probably they probably wouldn't have thought to do that until

860
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:58,000
Speaker 1: I read that on the internet. So yeah, they they

861
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:00,040
Speaker 1: maybe didn't give up hope and think I'm about to

862
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:01,759
Speaker 1: die or anything like that. And by that time, of course,

863
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:03,480
Speaker 1: the batteries and all the devices are dead, and by

864
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:05,680
Speaker 1: the time they thought about making a farewell video well

865
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:07,759
Speaker 1: too late. But a lot of those little points, she

866
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:10,440
Speaker 1: don't they have kind of crappy little batteries, Like I've

867
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:13,720
Speaker 1: got a little point in sheot pentachs nice little camera,

868
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:16,440
Speaker 1: but the battery doesn't last long at all. Well, it's

869
00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:20,040
Speaker 1: also hard to tell like how long after the phones

870
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:22,880
Speaker 1: died they were alive. Yeah, you know, I mean like

871
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:25,280
Speaker 1: they could have both been alive for like ten more days.

872
00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:27,479
Speaker 1: They could have not been feeling like they were about

873
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:31,120
Speaker 1: to die for you know, a week until after, you know,

874
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:34,360
Speaker 1: after their stuff died. So it's also possible that that

875
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:36,880
Speaker 1: wasn't a thing that concerned them. As I said, it

876
00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:38,440
Speaker 1: doesn't concern me, but I did want to bring it

877
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:40,000
Speaker 1: up because I do see it a lot of places.

878
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:45,319
Speaker 1: There's also this fun problem that comes up when they

879
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:50,640
Speaker 1: did interviews with local witnesses, not witnesses of whatever happened

880
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:52,759
Speaker 1: to them, obviously, but people who said that they saw

881
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:55,920
Speaker 1: the girls on the first in the town. In the town,

882
00:49:57,160 --> 00:49:59,959
Speaker 1: it's pretty well confirmed that the photos that they took

883
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:04,359
Speaker 1: gone the Continental Divide were taken out one pm, so

884
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:06,920
Speaker 1: they would have had to have left town at like

885
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:10,920
Speaker 1: eleven am at the very latest for them to have

886
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:13,480
Speaker 1: you know, walked up there and all that stuff. But

887
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:17,359
Speaker 1: apparently the woman who runs the school that they were

888
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:20,359
Speaker 1: planning to work for claims that she spoke with them

889
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:25,120
Speaker 1: at one pm that day. Further it's I mean, it's impossible,

890
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:32,400
Speaker 1: It's simply impossible. Furthermore, at Yeah, the other thing is

891
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:37,480
Speaker 1: that the innkeeper slash like coffee there's a guy who

892
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:39,400
Speaker 1: runs like an inn and like a coffee shop, but

893
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:43,359
Speaker 1: like basically the bottom of the trail outside a very

894
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:46,680
Speaker 1: outside of town. You run into this in like European

895
00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:49,640
Speaker 1: countries a lot too. There's just like a random in there.

896
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:54,319
Speaker 1: He said that he saw two um he's the term

897
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:59,880
Speaker 1: gringo girls. Uh, that vaguely kind of matched the description

898
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:02,320
Speaker 1: of Listen and Chris. I mean, certainly there couldn't have

899
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:05,600
Speaker 1: been like that in many white folks walking around of

900
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:07,440
Speaker 1: that age. There could have been I don't know, I

901
00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:09,600
Speaker 1: don't know if there's enough business for a guy to

902
00:51:09,719 --> 00:51:12,239
Speaker 1: have a guide service up and down that trail for

903
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:15,920
Speaker 1: you know, to make money. There might be enough. And

904
00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:18,200
Speaker 1: and you know, a couple of green gold girls is

905
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:21,640
Speaker 1: probably a very apt description of who he saw. Whoever

906
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:24,239
Speaker 1: he saw, so his description of them is like a

907
00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:26,680
Speaker 1: little off. And you know, he said that the taller

908
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:30,880
Speaker 1: brunette girl was wearing black leggings, but Listen was wearing

909
00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:34,720
Speaker 1: like a black skirt or shorts. Or something. It doesn't

910
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:37,120
Speaker 1: super match, but he kind of described them. And he

911
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 1: said that girls, these two girls that he saw showed

912
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:45,680
Speaker 1: up at his inn at about three thirty pm, which

913
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:49,680
Speaker 1: would have been about when they were probably hitting that area. Again,

914
00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:52,960
Speaker 1: if they walked straight down from the Continental evidence going

915
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:55,759
Speaker 1: over that timeline makes sense. They looked, he said, they

916
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:58,680
Speaker 1: looked really, really tired, and they were asking for directions

917
00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:01,200
Speaker 1: back into town, and he said, you you should take

918
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:03,960
Speaker 1: a taxi. But he described one of them as being

919
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:07,520
Speaker 1: a brunette. Yeah, Lis ansa brunette. Ones are redhead, ones

920
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:11,560
Speaker 1: are brunette. He He then said he didn't pay attention

921
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:13,600
Speaker 1: to see if they had walked back into town or

922
00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:17,520
Speaker 1: walked to the trail. I don't know also how good

923
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:19,719
Speaker 1: their Spanish was, and I don't know if they're kind

924
00:52:19,719 --> 00:52:23,520
Speaker 1: of regional dialects. So it's, you know, possible that I

925
00:52:23,560 --> 00:52:27,760
Speaker 1: guess it's possible that they did, in fact walk back down,

926
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:31,640
Speaker 1: got directions they didn't totally understand, and thought that they

927
00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:33,640
Speaker 1: were in the wrong place, and walked back up the hill.

928
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:36,080
Speaker 1: But that seems unlikely to me. I literally have no

929
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:39,120
Speaker 1: idea what would possess those girls to walk back to

930
00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:42,240
Speaker 1: the trail well, and they know they know what direction

931
00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:46,560
Speaker 1: they got there somehow, so they know what direction town is.

932
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:49,160
Speaker 1: They can't be confused about where the town is. And

933
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:54,200
Speaker 1: you may not know, but give me a rough approximate here.

934
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:57,600
Speaker 1: How high is it from where they started at the

935
00:52:57,600 --> 00:53:01,400
Speaker 1: bottom of the trail to the Continental Divide elevation? Do

936
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:05,680
Speaker 1: you know how many? Idea? Literally, no idea? What's okay?

937
00:53:05,719 --> 00:53:08,839
Speaker 1: I know that it's a significant number. I mean, like,

938
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:11,440
Speaker 1: you know, you you ascend. I don't know. Let's just

939
00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:14,680
Speaker 1: say a thousand feet again, I'm pulling that number out

940
00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:18,719
Speaker 1: of thin air. But it would be really hard to say, Oh,

941
00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:20,560
Speaker 1: I don't know. I guess we'll go back off that

942
00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:24,640
Speaker 1: thousand foot incline sense. Yeah, it's got to be two

943
00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:28,480
Speaker 1: other girls. I would agree with that. The other problem,

944
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:33,479
Speaker 1: I guess is that these Dutch men that they had

945
00:53:33,760 --> 00:53:37,160
Speaker 1: brunch with, and actually it turns out that it's confirmed

946
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:41,640
Speaker 1: that those the detectives who came from the Netherlands found

947
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:44,160
Speaker 1: those men like they knew who those men were, and

948
00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:47,920
Speaker 1: they interviewed them and questioned them. They had returned to

949
00:53:48,040 --> 00:53:53,239
Speaker 1: the Netherlands since the Dutch detectives showed up in Panama

950
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:56,600
Speaker 1: and they found them and interviewed them. But that's like it,

951
00:53:57,400 --> 00:54:01,560
Speaker 1: like they know, the Dutch of officials never released anything

952
00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:04,160
Speaker 1: that said these were the men, and they had literally

953
00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:07,720
Speaker 1: no information. They'd like, there was none of that happened.

954
00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:10,120
Speaker 1: They it's just oh yeah, we found them and we

955
00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:13,200
Speaker 1: interviewed them. End of story. So that's a bit. You know,

956
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:16,879
Speaker 1: that's of course frustrating for us a little bit as

957
00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:19,520
Speaker 1: trying to solve this mystery. Although you know, I don't

958
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:22,120
Speaker 1: know if that's standard operating procedure for police these days,

959
00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:24,520
Speaker 1: like say, in cases like this which are abound to

960
00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:26,640
Speaker 1: make it onto the internet and make it on a

961
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:30,560
Speaker 1: web sluice and then pages like that. Maybe the guy said, hey, look,

962
00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:31,839
Speaker 1: I know this is going to wind up on web

963
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:33,960
Speaker 1: sluices and and and millions of people are going to

964
00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:36,759
Speaker 1: start circulating like you know, all these rumors that you know,

965
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:40,520
Speaker 1: we're the killers. I think that you don't have to

966
00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:44,080
Speaker 1: even release the name, right, you just have to say, like, oh, hey, yeah,

967
00:54:44,120 --> 00:54:47,319
Speaker 1: we we found them and they weren't involved, like we

968
00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:50,160
Speaker 1: interviewed them and they had lunch with the girls and

969
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:53,359
Speaker 1: they weren't involved anymore. Like they that's fine, but they

970
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:57,160
Speaker 1: haven't even released that amount of information. So there are

971
00:54:57,200 --> 00:54:59,879
Speaker 1: a lot of theories out there. We're gonna just kind

972
00:54:59,880 --> 00:55:02,839
Speaker 1: of talking broad terms about them. But I do want

973
00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:04,960
Speaker 1: to make sure really quickly that we're all on the

974
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:08,400
Speaker 1: same page about all of the bones that were found

975
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:12,080
Speaker 1: being like totally clean and like broken in weird places.

976
00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:14,840
Speaker 1: We're cool with that, right. We don't need to like

977
00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:18,000
Speaker 1: talk about the fact that they were they died in

978
00:55:18,080 --> 00:55:23,200
Speaker 1: the jungle and there are scavengers and weather and bugs

979
00:55:24,680 --> 00:55:28,759
Speaker 1: would have very quickly been cleaned off by animals and

980
00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:33,000
Speaker 1: bugs and the weather, and then likely they were all

981
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:35,759
Speaker 1: found in riverbeds, so they were washed down the river

982
00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:40,239
Speaker 1: broken by rocks. That's what happened. The shoe, did that

983
00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:42,799
Speaker 1: only have bones in it? Or did that actually have

984
00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:45,000
Speaker 1: flesh in it as well? I think it had some

985
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:46,919
Speaker 1: flesh in it too, But I think that's not so

986
00:55:47,160 --> 00:55:49,040
Speaker 1: weird to me. Well, no, it's not weird, but that

987
00:55:49,080 --> 00:55:51,200
Speaker 1: was the only place that I could see that happening,

988
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:53,719
Speaker 1: So I just want to Yep, that's my understanding is

989
00:55:53,719 --> 00:55:55,600
Speaker 1: that it had the kind of foot in it, So

990
00:55:55,640 --> 00:55:58,120
Speaker 1: we're good. We don't need to talk about that. If

991
00:55:58,160 --> 00:56:00,600
Speaker 1: anybody has like huge questions, I guess We'll put a

992
00:56:00,680 --> 00:56:03,880
Speaker 1: link into like how bodies decomposing the jungle on the

993
00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:09,879
Speaker 1: website if you really want to do the research, really don't. Yeah,

994
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:14,080
Speaker 1: so theories, Yeah you got. First off, as with most

995
00:56:14,120 --> 00:56:16,279
Speaker 1: of my stories, it turns out these days there's kind

996
00:56:16,280 --> 00:56:22,200
Speaker 1: of two camps, foul play or unfortunate accident. I'm gonna

997
00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:24,440
Speaker 1: go ahead and start out by saying I think foul

998
00:56:24,440 --> 00:56:28,400
Speaker 1: play is like super unlikely, and you can kind of

999
00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:32,000
Speaker 1: just extrapolate out, like what people you know, it's Panama.

1000
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:34,720
Speaker 1: It's actually it turns out one of the safest places

1001
00:56:34,719 --> 00:56:37,719
Speaker 1: in Panama, but it's still Panama. So you know, people say, oh,

1002
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:41,319
Speaker 1: they were murdered, but like why really they took They

1003
00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:43,839
Speaker 1: took like many many days to murder them, a lot

1004
00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:48,240
Speaker 1: of days, and then somebody, well somebody was like, oh,

1005
00:56:48,280 --> 00:56:50,520
Speaker 1: they could have been murdered, and then it was the

1006
00:56:50,600 --> 00:56:53,440
Speaker 1: murderer was like trying to make it look like they

1007
00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:55,960
Speaker 1: were lost in the wilderness, so they were like turning

1008
00:56:55,960 --> 00:56:58,719
Speaker 1: the phone on and like faking calls. But that's the

1009
00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:02,640
Speaker 1: dumbest thing I ever heard. Thank you for saying those words,

1010
00:57:02,680 --> 00:57:05,160
Speaker 1: because I was almost gonna say, that's the dumbest thing

1011
00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:08,960
Speaker 1: I've heard of the day, because if I live in

1012
00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:12,240
Speaker 1: the you know, if I'm a commando in the jungle,

1013
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:16,880
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna leave a false trail for some woman

1014
00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:19,680
Speaker 1: or two women that I kill. I'm just gonna kill him, yeah,

1015
00:57:20,480 --> 00:57:25,040
Speaker 1: and hide the bodies really carefully. Also rape and kidnapping,

1016
00:57:25,200 --> 00:57:29,320
Speaker 1: but those are also dumb. Yeah, they carried it out

1017
00:57:29,320 --> 00:57:31,000
Speaker 1: for a long time. It's just yeah, it went on

1018
00:57:31,080 --> 00:57:33,240
Speaker 1: for a real long time. And like, who in the

1019
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:35,720
Speaker 1: world is going to put that much effort into like

1020
00:57:36,440 --> 00:57:40,840
Speaker 1: staging an unfortunate loss, Like that's dumb. Yeah, I can't

1021
00:57:40,880 --> 00:57:43,520
Speaker 1: I can't buy that. And there's there's As just said,

1022
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:45,520
Speaker 1: this is one of the safer places in the area,

1023
00:57:45,640 --> 00:57:50,280
Speaker 1: So I can't really see it just doesn't make sense.

1024
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:55,200
Speaker 1: There's not a lot of guerrilla activity or nefarious activity

1025
00:57:55,240 --> 00:57:58,200
Speaker 1: for me to even count that as a viable option.

1026
00:57:58,200 --> 00:58:00,600
Speaker 1: And this isn't the area of Panama where there's just

1027
00:58:00,680 --> 00:58:04,720
Speaker 1: like random pot farms everywhere and stuff. That's not I mean,

1028
00:58:04,760 --> 00:58:07,160
Speaker 1: there might be, but like it's not. They didn't likely

1029
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:10,600
Speaker 1: just wander onto you know, somebody's land or anything like that.

1030
00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:15,000
Speaker 1: And so but as anybody considered, is there anybody out

1031
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:16,760
Speaker 1: there in the world, the World Wide Web is talking

1032
00:58:16,800 --> 00:58:20,720
Speaker 1: about alien abduction. Because again, I'm kind of surprised it

1033
00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:23,360
Speaker 1: went on too long. That's the whole thing is, like

1034
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:25,560
Speaker 1: it went on for so long that like pretty much

1035
00:58:25,560 --> 00:58:28,280
Speaker 1: the only option is that, like there was an unfortunate

1036
00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:31,560
Speaker 1: accident that happened. Yeah, I'm sure even if they were

1037
00:58:31,600 --> 00:58:34,120
Speaker 1: just lost. I mean, one of them obviously probably died

1038
00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:38,680
Speaker 1: before the other one died. So there's an interesting, fun,

1039
00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:42,320
Speaker 1: little tidbit of information that I didn't bring up earlier,

1040
00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:47,120
Speaker 1: but I will bring up now, uh when it's it's

1041
00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:50,560
Speaker 1: interesting when they did the analysis, so I guess I

1042
00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:52,520
Speaker 1: didn't mention that like a lot of other bones have

1043
00:58:52,560 --> 00:58:56,720
Speaker 1: been found since that kind of initial bone find um,

1044
00:58:56,800 --> 00:58:59,600
Speaker 1: some of them were leg bones, and when they did

1045
00:58:59,640 --> 00:59:01,760
Speaker 1: and now a lissis on the leg bones that were

1046
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:05,680
Speaker 1: Lisan's they found, I guess you can tell via bones

1047
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:12,000
Speaker 1: this condition that causes your muscles to inflame and it

1048
00:59:12,240 --> 00:59:15,200
Speaker 1: affects your bones as well. I can't remember what it's called,

1049
00:59:15,280 --> 00:59:21,520
Speaker 1: but it's caused by over exertion. So that strongly suggests,

1050
00:59:21,800 --> 00:59:23,400
Speaker 1: you know, to a lot of people they say, well,

1051
00:59:23,440 --> 00:59:25,600
Speaker 1: maybe like Chris got injured and Lisan was trying to

1052
00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:29,600
Speaker 1: carry her, or you know, maybe Lissan, you know, broke

1053
00:59:29,600 --> 00:59:31,960
Speaker 1: her leg and was like over exerting the other leg

1054
00:59:32,040 --> 00:59:35,640
Speaker 1: trying to you know anything. It also, I guess it's

1055
00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:39,120
Speaker 1: possible that the inflammation could have been caused like by poison,

1056
00:59:39,640 --> 00:59:43,280
Speaker 1: like by a bite. All possible. So I guess, you know,

1057
00:59:43,360 --> 00:59:46,680
Speaker 1: my list of unfortunate accident stuff is. I think it's

1058
00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:50,080
Speaker 1: it's most likely that one of them got bit by

1059
00:59:50,080 --> 00:59:55,160
Speaker 1: a snake on accident or twisted an ankle and they

1060
00:59:55,200 --> 00:59:58,880
Speaker 1: thought they could figure out a shortcut through the jungle

1061
00:59:59,600 --> 01:00:04,040
Speaker 1: and got lost out there. Let me talk about the time.

1062
01:00:04,120 --> 01:00:05,400
Speaker 1: I'm not going to tell you the time, and one

1063
01:00:05,400 --> 01:00:06,680
Speaker 1: of these days I'll tell you the story of the

1064
01:00:06,680 --> 01:00:09,000
Speaker 1: time I was in Padigo and yeah, and I took

1065
01:00:09,000 --> 01:00:13,440
Speaker 1: a short cut. Yeah, I mean, it's also possible. You know,

1066
01:00:13,440 --> 01:00:16,120
Speaker 1: there are a lot of like weird ravines that go off.

1067
01:00:16,200 --> 01:00:17,960
Speaker 1: They just thought that was the trail and took that.

1068
01:00:18,560 --> 01:00:21,160
Speaker 1: There are pictures of them on the trail that, you know,

1069
01:00:21,160 --> 01:00:23,000
Speaker 1: Steve and I were kind of talking about earlier. I

1070
01:00:23,080 --> 01:00:25,000
Speaker 1: was like, this picture actually creeps me out of Chris

1071
01:00:25,040 --> 01:00:26,880
Speaker 1: because it kind of looks like they're just walking through

1072
01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:29,400
Speaker 1: a dried up riverbed that doesn't look like a trail

1073
01:00:29,440 --> 01:00:31,600
Speaker 1: at all to me, but maybe it is. And that's

1074
01:00:31,640 --> 01:00:33,440
Speaker 1: not something that you know, any of the investigators have

1075
01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:35,720
Speaker 1: brought up, is that like this obviously isn't the trail.

1076
01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:38,360
Speaker 1: Apparently that's what the trail looks like. So it would

1077
01:00:38,360 --> 01:00:40,600
Speaker 1: be pretty easy to just you know, think this other

1078
01:00:40,640 --> 01:00:43,360
Speaker 1: offshoot was the trail and get lost and before you

1079
01:00:43,400 --> 01:00:46,720
Speaker 1: know it, you realize, oh, it's you know, getting dark,

1080
01:00:47,040 --> 01:00:49,360
Speaker 1: the sun is setting. We have no idea where we are.

1081
01:00:50,160 --> 01:00:53,880
Speaker 1: Although in that instant, what do you do? You turn

1082
01:00:54,000 --> 01:00:57,240
Speaker 1: around and follow the trail you were just following back

1083
01:00:57,280 --> 01:00:59,920
Speaker 1: to the other trail and walk out that way, or

1084
01:01:00,080 --> 01:01:01,760
Speaker 1: if you have to camp camp on the trail. It

1085
01:01:01,800 --> 01:01:05,000
Speaker 1: seems like I just like, I don't know why. So

1086
01:01:05,080 --> 01:01:07,120
Speaker 1: for me, I don't think it's possible that they just

1087
01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:12,040
Speaker 1: got lost got lost. No, I think that one of

1088
01:01:12,080 --> 01:01:15,640
Speaker 1: them had been injured, at least at least one of them.

1089
01:01:15,960 --> 01:01:20,440
Speaker 1: See I disagree with that when when I looked at

1090
01:01:20,480 --> 01:01:23,560
Speaker 1: the map that which is another one of the great

1091
01:01:23,560 --> 01:01:27,600
Speaker 1: infographics that that somebody has put together, and there's this

1092
01:01:27,640 --> 01:01:31,200
Speaker 1: map that kind of plots out their course to the

1093
01:01:31,320 --> 01:01:36,480
Speaker 1: last point that we know about and then so if

1094
01:01:36,520 --> 01:01:42,440
Speaker 1: you follow that course north or northeast. This is the

1095
01:01:42,480 --> 01:01:45,040
Speaker 1: point that I was making earlier and we talked about,

1096
01:01:45,160 --> 01:01:49,560
Speaker 1: is that you come to another river, and that river

1097
01:01:49,920 --> 01:01:54,280
Speaker 1: is it's the Rio Changuinola. If I'm I pope, I'm

1098
01:01:54,280 --> 01:01:58,800
Speaker 1: pronouncing that correctly. Yeah. Okay, Well that's flowing downhill on

1099
01:01:59,400 --> 01:02:03,040
Speaker 1: the north side of that Continental divide, the mountain ridge

1100
01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:06,200
Speaker 1: that we were talking about. Okay, well, if they're if

1101
01:02:06,240 --> 01:02:10,240
Speaker 1: they're lost, I can see them being confused and one

1102
01:02:10,280 --> 01:02:12,680
Speaker 1: trying to convince the other no, listen, we need to

1103
01:02:12,720 --> 01:02:15,400
Speaker 1: follow this. This is totally going to take us home

1104
01:02:16,720 --> 01:02:19,120
Speaker 1: and correct me if I'm wrong. But they only took

1105
01:02:19,120 --> 01:02:21,320
Speaker 1: a couple of bottles of waters at right. Yeah, But

1106
01:02:21,560 --> 01:02:24,880
Speaker 1: the I guess the argument is those rivers would be

1107
01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:29,400
Speaker 1: kind of pure enough to I don't obviously not. You're

1108
01:02:29,400 --> 01:02:32,800
Speaker 1: probably gonna get giardia or something gardia or disenter. You're

1109
01:02:32,800 --> 01:02:34,960
Speaker 1: going to drink it, and you're gonna drink it and

1110
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:38,480
Speaker 1: you're gonna get something and that's going to make you

1111
01:02:38,640 --> 01:02:43,080
Speaker 1: sick and ill. And so my my personal belief is

1112
01:02:43,160 --> 01:02:46,640
Speaker 1: that they got sick. I don't think somebody fell and

1113
01:02:46,640 --> 01:02:49,600
Speaker 1: broke a bone. I think they both got ill. And

1114
01:02:49,680 --> 01:02:52,360
Speaker 1: usually those kind of things, they tear up your guts

1115
01:02:52,360 --> 01:02:54,880
Speaker 1: and you can't walk. We're talking like a couple of

1116
01:02:54,920 --> 01:02:56,880
Speaker 1: days later, like they got lost and then got ill,

1117
01:02:56,960 --> 01:02:59,600
Speaker 1: because that doesn't it doesn't jardy. It takes a while.

1118
01:02:59,720 --> 01:03:01,520
Speaker 1: It's not like you drink it and suddenly it's like

1119
01:03:01,560 --> 01:03:04,520
Speaker 1: food poisoning. Two hours later you're vomiting. It takes a

1120
01:03:04,520 --> 01:03:06,960
Speaker 1: while to get hole in there. It takes a day

1121
01:03:07,040 --> 01:03:09,040
Speaker 1: or two. But if you were lost for a day

1122
01:03:09,120 --> 01:03:13,360
Speaker 1: or two, then you're incapacitated and you're stuck, and then

1123
01:03:13,440 --> 01:03:16,400
Speaker 1: the hydration sets in. No matter how much you drink

1124
01:03:16,600 --> 01:03:19,800
Speaker 1: out of the river that you're laying next to, you're

1125
01:03:19,840 --> 01:03:22,760
Speaker 1: gonna be dehydrated. And I think that one of them

1126
01:03:22,760 --> 01:03:24,919
Speaker 1: did pa the presence of mind as we know by

1127
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:29,600
Speaker 1: the on again, off again scenario. But personally, as I

1128
01:03:29,680 --> 01:03:32,919
Speaker 1: looked at the photos of what we could see from

1129
01:03:32,960 --> 01:03:37,160
Speaker 1: the camera from it's the eighth day, correct, No, it's

1130
01:03:37,200 --> 01:03:39,560
Speaker 1: the seventh day. It's April eight. The seventh thing. These

1131
01:03:39,560 --> 01:03:42,240
Speaker 1: are all the black photos when I looked at because

1132
01:03:42,280 --> 01:03:44,880
Speaker 1: I pulled up the user manual on their camera. I

1133
01:03:44,920 --> 01:03:48,200
Speaker 1: wanted to know what does it take to use this thing.

1134
01:03:48,880 --> 01:03:51,320
Speaker 1: It's a simple point and click. It's got the little

1135
01:03:51,480 --> 01:03:54,680
Speaker 1: back and forth spring loaded dial on the front to

1136
01:03:54,720 --> 01:03:58,000
Speaker 1: turn it on and off, and then it's just a

1137
01:03:58,160 --> 01:04:03,280
Speaker 1: really simple push to turn on or to take a photo.

1138
01:04:04,120 --> 01:04:10,480
Speaker 1: So I can see either a somebody having spasms or

1139
01:04:10,520 --> 01:04:14,560
Speaker 1: a seizure of some kind and just essentially holding down

1140
01:04:14,720 --> 01:04:21,320
Speaker 1: repeatedly squeezing the button consciously or unconsciously, or if they're

1141
01:04:21,400 --> 01:04:25,080
Speaker 1: hardy deceased at that point and it's in their hand,

1142
01:04:25,120 --> 01:04:28,880
Speaker 1: and there's some kind of critter rustling around and checking

1143
01:04:28,920 --> 01:04:31,640
Speaker 1: them out because their corps and that means that they're

1144
01:04:31,680 --> 01:04:35,680
Speaker 1: fair game continually hitting that and that's why we're not

1145
01:04:35,720 --> 01:04:38,880
Speaker 1: seeing anything, because it's pointed up or it's rolled into

1146
01:04:39,480 --> 01:04:42,800
Speaker 1: one of them the hair of is it Chris Chris's hair?

1147
01:04:42,920 --> 01:04:45,760
Speaker 1: So the problem with that theory is that the camera

1148
01:04:45,880 --> 01:04:48,880
Speaker 1: was found neatly packed in the backpack. Oh, the camera

1149
01:04:49,000 --> 01:04:51,600
Speaker 1: was back in the background. Everything was in the backpack.

1150
01:04:52,960 --> 01:04:55,600
Speaker 1: So it wasn't like somebody just passed out. It wasn't

1151
01:04:55,640 --> 01:04:58,640
Speaker 1: like a seizure. It was and you know, people have

1152
01:04:58,680 --> 01:05:01,840
Speaker 1: said like, oh, well, maybe it was like floating down

1153
01:05:01,840 --> 01:05:04,520
Speaker 1: the river and like hitting stuff, and that we're setting

1154
01:05:04,520 --> 01:05:08,320
Speaker 1: it off, but like then it would have had like

1155
01:05:08,360 --> 01:05:10,080
Speaker 1: it would have been like super you know, when you

1156
01:05:10,080 --> 01:05:12,080
Speaker 1: accidentally take a picture of like the inside of your hand,

1157
01:05:12,160 --> 01:05:14,200
Speaker 1: the flashes like they would have been white pictures. They

1158
01:05:14,200 --> 01:05:16,720
Speaker 1: wouldn't have been black pictures. You wouldn't have had the hair.

1159
01:05:16,960 --> 01:05:21,320
Speaker 1: And also the I'm as saying, yeah it was and

1160
01:05:21,360 --> 01:05:23,720
Speaker 1: I I'm assuming this is not a watertight camera. So

1161
01:05:23,800 --> 01:05:26,640
Speaker 1: once the river, you can't use the flash anymore, or

1162
01:05:26,680 --> 01:05:30,360
Speaker 1: you can can't take pictures anymore. So I'm kind of

1163
01:05:30,360 --> 01:05:33,240
Speaker 1: thinking that they probably tried. Probably there was a helicopter

1164
01:05:33,320 --> 01:05:35,240
Speaker 1: or some such thing flying overhead and they were just

1165
01:05:35,240 --> 01:05:38,600
Speaker 1: trying to signal it. Yeah, I would agree with that. Um,

1166
01:05:38,680 --> 01:05:41,400
Speaker 1: you know again, the other problems I have with that

1167
01:05:41,440 --> 01:05:44,560
Speaker 1: are the pictures of you know what looked like different

1168
01:05:44,600 --> 01:05:48,160
Speaker 1: areas taken on that same night, the hair, the like

1169
01:05:48,360 --> 01:05:53,120
Speaker 1: fairly purposeful picture of whatever they've created on the rock there.

1170
01:05:53,200 --> 01:05:57,200
Speaker 1: And I'm not gonna again, we don't have to to

1171
01:05:57,240 --> 01:05:59,160
Speaker 1: go into it great length, but I don't know that

1172
01:05:59,200 --> 01:06:03,200
Speaker 1: they're different in areas. I could see those pictures being

1173
01:06:03,880 --> 01:06:08,680
Speaker 1: taken from pointing one direction, turning nine degrees and taking another.

1174
01:06:09,040 --> 01:06:11,440
Speaker 1: So I when you say a different area. I'm just

1175
01:06:11,480 --> 01:06:13,280
Speaker 1: trying to get the context. If it's not as if

1176
01:06:13,360 --> 01:06:17,920
Speaker 1: they roamed right, it's just a different direction that they

1177
01:06:17,960 --> 01:06:21,160
Speaker 1: were facing at the time. But but I mean, and

1178
01:06:21,520 --> 01:06:24,960
Speaker 1: the only reason that I think that they were stuck

1179
01:06:24,960 --> 01:06:27,640
Speaker 1: on the river bank and I caused I called out

1180
01:06:27,680 --> 01:06:32,400
Speaker 1: sickness is because I don't know if we've clarified this yet.

1181
01:06:32,440 --> 01:06:37,360
Speaker 1: But everything besides the backpack, every single thing was downstream. Well,

1182
01:06:37,520 --> 01:06:42,120
Speaker 1: the backpack was downstream too, everything everything downstream. I think

1183
01:06:42,120 --> 01:06:45,240
Speaker 1: it's it's pretty well accepted that a flash flood probably

1184
01:06:45,240 --> 01:06:47,800
Speaker 1: washed their stuff down. It could be that that's what

1185
01:06:47,880 --> 01:06:50,440
Speaker 1: finally did a man too, because the thing about it

1186
01:06:50,480 --> 01:06:52,640
Speaker 1: is as if you're out there in rough wilderness area,

1187
01:06:53,520 --> 01:06:55,360
Speaker 1: the best thing to do is to find a river

1188
01:06:55,440 --> 01:06:58,400
Speaker 1: and follow it down and then and so they were

1189
01:06:58,400 --> 01:07:00,520
Speaker 1: probably doing that. They're probably follow in this river, and

1190
01:07:00,520 --> 01:07:01,960
Speaker 1: they might have even thought they already were on the

1191
01:07:02,200 --> 01:07:04,880
Speaker 1: other side of the continental divide. They could have jumped

1192
01:07:04,880 --> 01:07:08,080
Speaker 1: to that conclusion is beyond me. But maybe they realized

1193
01:07:08,120 --> 01:07:09,680
Speaker 1: there's no way we're gonna get back to the top,

1194
01:07:09,720 --> 01:07:12,040
Speaker 1: and we'll just follow this until it comes to a village.

1195
01:07:12,160 --> 01:07:15,120
Speaker 1: I guess the flood comes along and well, that's kind

1196
01:07:15,120 --> 01:07:17,080
Speaker 1: of it for them. If you look at the pictures

1197
01:07:17,080 --> 01:07:19,560
Speaker 1: of that area, there are a lot of mountains, so

1198
01:07:19,640 --> 01:07:22,200
Speaker 1: it's possible that they you know, crusted another one and

1199
01:07:22,240 --> 01:07:24,080
Speaker 1: thought it was the same one, and you know, they

1200
01:07:24,280 --> 01:07:26,520
Speaker 1: turned around in the But you know, the other thing

1201
01:07:26,680 --> 01:07:30,600
Speaker 1: is there are a lot of like old huts. The

1202
01:07:30,720 --> 01:07:32,840
Speaker 1: area that they were kind of in, especially the area

1203
01:07:32,880 --> 01:07:36,320
Speaker 1: they were their remains were found in, is like grazing

1204
01:07:36,360 --> 01:07:40,240
Speaker 1: area or farmers walked through it. Obviously, farmers have found

1205
01:07:40,280 --> 01:07:42,600
Speaker 1: most of this stuff. Locals have found most of this stuff.

1206
01:07:42,640 --> 01:07:47,000
Speaker 1: So it's not as though they were in an unpopulated area.

1207
01:07:47,160 --> 01:07:50,280
Speaker 1: I mean, it wasn't like a city obviously, but like

1208
01:07:50,680 --> 01:07:53,920
Speaker 1: certainly in that in the time of ten days, people

1209
01:07:53,960 --> 01:07:58,840
Speaker 1: were like walking through that area. So you know, I

1210
01:07:58,920 --> 01:08:03,280
Speaker 1: have I have no good scope of how one could

1211
01:08:03,360 --> 01:08:07,880
Speaker 1: be so thoroughly lost with so many people looking for you.

1212
01:08:08,080 --> 01:08:10,400
Speaker 1: They would have had to have been mobile. The jungle

1213
01:08:10,520 --> 01:08:13,280
Speaker 1: is a big place. It is sort of sound quite

1214
01:08:13,320 --> 01:08:17,360
Speaker 1: well that's true too, so yeah, yeah, but yeah, people

1215
01:08:17,400 --> 01:08:19,320
Speaker 1: get lost. Is this this is not the first time

1216
01:08:19,360 --> 01:08:22,000
Speaker 1: this kind of thing has happened. I just gotta say,

1217
01:08:22,320 --> 01:08:24,200
Speaker 1: don't go out in the woods without a compass and

1218
01:08:24,280 --> 01:08:26,479
Speaker 1: some food and water and all kinds of other stuff

1219
01:08:26,640 --> 01:08:30,080
Speaker 1: and like emergency stuff. You know. Really, honestly, the best

1220
01:08:30,120 --> 01:08:33,439
Speaker 1: advice I could give anybody is they're like fifty cents,

1221
01:08:33,479 --> 01:08:38,120
Speaker 1: those survival whistles and those suckers are allowed. Yeah, those

1222
01:08:38,160 --> 01:08:39,840
Speaker 1: things are good. A flair a gun. You can get

1223
01:08:39,840 --> 01:08:42,439
Speaker 1: actually small flare aguns. You're not at the big, big,

1224
01:08:42,479 --> 01:08:44,680
Speaker 1: big steel ones to carry on ships. You can get

1225
01:08:44,680 --> 01:08:46,880
Speaker 1: small little flare aguns and stuff like that. That's also

1226
01:08:47,360 --> 01:08:52,439
Speaker 1: take some survival stuff with you stuff or chip Number

1227
01:08:52,439 --> 01:08:57,320
Speaker 1: one is don't go into a remote area you don't

1228
01:08:57,360 --> 01:09:01,400
Speaker 1: know of on your own, especial if you've hired a

1229
01:09:01,439 --> 01:09:04,160
Speaker 1: guide for the next of the day. That's what perplexes

1230
01:09:04,240 --> 01:09:07,880
Speaker 1: me so much about this is why they decided, because

1231
01:09:08,000 --> 01:09:12,000
Speaker 1: I mean, technically that trail does go on for hundreds

1232
01:09:12,000 --> 01:09:16,000
Speaker 1: and hundreds of kilometers, you know, through the jungle. But

1233
01:09:16,080 --> 01:09:19,599
Speaker 1: if you don't know what you're doing, why would you go,

1234
01:09:20,560 --> 01:09:22,639
Speaker 1: What the hell, let's just give it a show. That's

1235
01:09:22,800 --> 01:09:25,519
Speaker 1: you know, maybe maybe that's what I don't understand. I

1236
01:09:26,120 --> 01:09:28,280
Speaker 1: don't get it either. That's but at twenty one I

1237
01:09:28,360 --> 01:09:32,160
Speaker 1: might have made that decision. True that but um, maybe

1238
01:09:32,160 --> 01:09:33,960
Speaker 1: they thought, you know, we've got nothing else going on.

1239
01:09:34,080 --> 01:09:36,160
Speaker 1: This is the trail around here. Let's just go do

1240
01:09:36,240 --> 01:09:38,320
Speaker 1: a couple of miles of it and then come back

1241
01:09:38,360 --> 01:09:40,920
Speaker 1: and then we'll go to the major trek tomorrow. And

1242
01:09:41,040 --> 01:09:43,800
Speaker 1: they wind up like, and I've done this before. You

1243
01:09:43,840 --> 01:09:46,000
Speaker 1: go out in the woods. It's like, we're just gonna

1244
01:09:46,040 --> 01:09:47,439
Speaker 1: go a couple of miles, and then you get out

1245
01:09:47,439 --> 01:09:49,280
Speaker 1: there and it's like, let's go another mile, you know,

1246
01:09:49,840 --> 01:09:52,000
Speaker 1: Oh wait, let's go another mile, you know, I mean,

1247
01:09:52,040 --> 01:09:54,200
Speaker 1: come on, why not, you know, and you wind up

1248
01:09:54,240 --> 01:09:57,320
Speaker 1: going a lot further than you originally planned on. It's

1249
01:09:57,400 --> 01:10:02,439
Speaker 1: just really unfortunate situation. And then it's really sad too

1250
01:10:02,520 --> 01:10:05,599
Speaker 1: that they lasted so long that they're out there. I'm

1251
01:10:05,600 --> 01:10:11,479
Speaker 1: sure terrified. And if you follow the timeline, you may

1252
01:10:11,560 --> 01:10:14,519
Speaker 1: or may not have realized that the parents their parents

1253
01:10:14,640 --> 01:10:17,720
Speaker 1: went out with the search parties, which means that their

1254
01:10:17,760 --> 01:10:20,320
Speaker 1: parents could have been within a mile of them while

1255
01:10:20,360 --> 01:10:24,760
Speaker 1: they were still alive. And that's scary to me. You know,

1256
01:10:24,840 --> 01:10:28,080
Speaker 1: it's not like startling, Yeah it is. It's tragic. Tragic

1257
01:10:28,160 --> 01:10:30,400
Speaker 1: is definitely the word. And also, yeah, I don't know,

1258
01:10:30,439 --> 01:10:32,720
Speaker 1: it's just I'm sure the parents wondering about that all

1259
01:10:32,720 --> 01:10:36,280
Speaker 1: the time they do. I watched this documentary. It's all

1260
01:10:36,439 --> 01:10:39,280
Speaker 1: in Dutch, so I didn't understand it. But I did

1261
01:10:39,280 --> 01:10:43,880
Speaker 1: watch this documentary of a news crew from the Netherlands

1262
01:10:44,000 --> 01:10:47,880
Speaker 1: came with the family and films them walking the trail,

1263
01:10:48,280 --> 01:10:50,360
Speaker 1: and it's just kind of it's like pretty hard to watch.

1264
01:10:50,400 --> 01:10:52,240
Speaker 1: You don't understand what they're talking about, and they seem

1265
01:10:52,280 --> 01:10:54,880
Speaker 1: like in fine spirits, but it's like just to know,

1266
01:10:55,720 --> 01:10:58,519
Speaker 1: you know. They have this moment where they pause and

1267
01:10:58,560 --> 01:11:01,880
Speaker 1: they they're at this like waterfall, and they both just

1268
01:11:01,960 --> 01:11:03,320
Speaker 1: kind of stand there and they say, well, this is

1269
01:11:03,400 --> 01:11:07,080
Speaker 1: the last known place of our daughter, you know, and

1270
01:11:07,160 --> 01:11:09,080
Speaker 1: they show this picture and it's the picture of her

1271
01:11:09,160 --> 01:11:11,120
Speaker 1: like standing by a waterfall. You know. It's just that

1272
01:11:11,240 --> 01:11:13,799
Speaker 1: moment of like, oh man, yeah, those kind of emotions

1273
01:11:13,840 --> 01:11:16,240
Speaker 1: are in here. We all understand that people don't understand

1274
01:11:16,280 --> 01:11:20,560
Speaker 1: the language. That's a fun story for this week. Do

1275
01:11:20,560 --> 01:11:25,080
Speaker 1: you guys have any other theories you want to talk about? None? Yeah,

1276
01:11:25,280 --> 01:11:27,120
Speaker 1: I don't have much to contribute on this one. Really.

1277
01:11:27,160 --> 01:11:30,800
Speaker 1: I just think that, yeah, they got lost and they

1278
01:11:30,840 --> 01:11:32,960
Speaker 1: got turned around and they started doing the wrong things.

1279
01:11:32,960 --> 01:11:35,559
Speaker 1: That's what happens when you get lost is you get

1280
01:11:35,560 --> 01:11:37,640
Speaker 1: this idea in your head. Oh well, you know this

1281
01:11:37,720 --> 01:11:39,200
Speaker 1: is a way to go, and you can't get that

1282
01:11:39,280 --> 01:11:40,920
Speaker 1: fixation out of your head. I've been there. I mean

1283
01:11:40,960 --> 01:11:44,920
Speaker 1: I've Yeah, I've been lost in the woods and you

1284
01:11:45,080 --> 01:11:48,919
Speaker 1: make mistand just mistakes, compile pile on top of mistakes.

1285
01:11:48,920 --> 01:11:51,200
Speaker 1: The next thing you know, you're really lost. Yeah. Yeah,

1286
01:11:51,479 --> 01:11:54,439
Speaker 1: and that's what happened to them. I'm pretty sure it's

1287
01:11:54,479 --> 01:11:56,800
Speaker 1: really too bad. They couldn't find a tree high enough

1288
01:11:56,840 --> 01:11:59,760
Speaker 1: to shinny up to get silk, average mountain high enough

1289
01:11:59,760 --> 01:12:02,479
Speaker 1: to get up on top of Yeah, I agree, connect

1290
01:12:02,479 --> 01:12:05,120
Speaker 1: with the phone call, that would have been good. There

1291
01:12:05,120 --> 01:12:09,080
Speaker 1: you go. So the infographics that we've been talking about

1292
01:12:09,479 --> 01:12:12,840
Speaker 1: UM as well as some links will be on our website,

1293
01:12:13,280 --> 01:12:16,840
Speaker 1: UM thinking sideways podcast dot com. You are probably not

1294
01:12:16,960 --> 01:12:19,719
Speaker 1: listening to us there. You're probably listening to us on iTunes.

1295
01:12:19,840 --> 01:12:21,720
Speaker 1: I think that's like where most of our traffic comes

1296
01:12:21,720 --> 01:12:26,040
Speaker 1: from these days. If you're on iTunes, leave us a

1297
01:12:26,040 --> 01:12:29,000
Speaker 1: comment in the rating, which you know, you guys are

1298
01:12:29,000 --> 01:12:31,599
Speaker 1: doing pretty good at. I guess it's how people find

1299
01:12:31,680 --> 01:12:35,240
Speaker 1: us other than it's how people find us. So we've

1300
01:12:35,280 --> 01:12:38,439
Speaker 1: got a lot of stuff. Yeah, so thank you. You

1301
01:12:38,520 --> 01:12:41,479
Speaker 1: may be trying to stream us on Stitcher. We're again

1302
01:12:41,560 --> 01:12:45,240
Speaker 1: working on that, trying, trying real hard to work with

1303
01:12:45,280 --> 01:12:47,400
Speaker 1: them on that. We've got some engineers on it. I

1304
01:12:47,400 --> 01:12:52,080
Speaker 1: promise you might be friends with us on Facebook. You

1305
01:12:52,160 --> 01:12:54,160
Speaker 1: might have liked our page. If you haven't, feel free

1306
01:12:54,200 --> 01:12:55,800
Speaker 1: to take a moment to do that. You may or

1307
01:12:55,880 --> 01:12:59,639
Speaker 1: may not follow us on Twitter. If you don't, that's okay.

1308
01:13:00,040 --> 01:13:03,360
Speaker 1: Don't have a Twitter, so I guess it's okay, but

1309
01:13:03,520 --> 01:13:06,439
Speaker 1: you should follow us if you have a Twitter. Every

1310
01:13:06,479 --> 01:13:10,679
Speaker 1: once in a while, tweet something. Usually when somebody's tweeted

1311
01:13:10,680 --> 01:13:15,160
Speaker 1: at us already, it's usually it. Uh. And if you

1312
01:13:15,160 --> 01:13:17,800
Speaker 1: want to talk about this case with any of us,

1313
01:13:18,000 --> 01:13:20,960
Speaker 1: or you have suggestions or anything like that, please feel

1314
01:13:21,000 --> 01:13:24,840
Speaker 1: free to send us an email Thinking Sideways podcast at

1315
01:13:25,040 --> 01:13:29,760
Speaker 1: gmail dot com. With that, I think we're gonna get

1316
01:13:29,800 --> 01:13:34,240
Speaker 1: out of here. You guys are both just like wide

1317
01:13:34,240 --> 01:13:38,080
Speaker 1: eyed and like, I don't want to think about life anymore. Yeah,

1318
01:13:38,080 --> 01:13:41,920
Speaker 1: I know this. This this is a rough story. Yeah,

1319
01:13:42,200 --> 01:13:44,439
Speaker 1: it's very sad. Yeah, we're gonna have to do something

1320
01:13:44,479 --> 01:13:47,880
Speaker 1: completely weird next week. We've done enough of these lately.

1321
01:13:47,920 --> 01:13:51,479
Speaker 1: I need something completely different than people disappearing. Yeah, I

1322
01:13:51,479 --> 01:13:53,160
Speaker 1: think it's my turn next week, so I'll come up

1323
01:13:53,160 --> 01:13:55,360
Speaker 1: with something like that, and no more disappearances for a while.

1324
01:13:55,560 --> 01:14:02,439
Speaker 1: Can you involve clowns? No int squirrels. I'm okay with that.

1325
01:14:03,360 --> 01:14:06,519
Speaker 1: Love squirrels. That's totally awesome, very cool. Anyway, there's one

1326
01:14:06,560 --> 01:14:08,280
Speaker 1: lesson I'm taking away from this is stay the hell

1327
01:14:08,320 --> 01:14:10,920
Speaker 1: out of Panama. And also it's better not to leave

1328
01:14:10,960 --> 01:14:13,880
Speaker 1: the house at all. Yeah, yeah, I think we agree

1329
01:14:13,920 --> 01:14:17,479
Speaker 1: on that. Bye guys, all right, bye everybody, So long

1330
01:14:17,560 --> 01:14:18,080
Speaker 1: for this week.