1 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 1: How does a beloved within the community pharmacists end up 2 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 1: being named as part of a firebombing plot? You know, 3 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:18,959 Speaker 1: when I go to the pharmacists and say the twins 4 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 1: are running a fever or the twins have the sniffles, 5 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:24,960 Speaker 1: what should I do? How do you compare aspirin versus 6 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 1: thailan all versus sed amnafin? Well, I don't expect the 7 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 1: man or the woman on the other side of the 8 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 1: counter to be plotting a fire bomb attempt. Crime Stories 9 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 1: with Nancy Greece. I, Nancy Grace, this is crime Stories. 10 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. I want you to 11 00:00:56,280 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: take a listen because not only is this beloved in 12 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:04,760 Speaker 1: the COMMU community pharmacist well known been practicing a long time, 13 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 1: but he was also somewhat of an infomercials star. Take 14 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:13,960 Speaker 1: a listen to Hiram Wilson on Modern Living with Kaffee Ireland. 15 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:18,760 Speaker 1: Our scars are our unique traits that give us personal identity. However, 16 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 1: sometimes they can also affect our confidence. Hiram Wilson, CEO 17 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:27,039 Speaker 1: of farm Works, recently joined us to share how his 18 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:32,959 Speaker 1: company's product scar gen X, restores our self image. Welcome Hiram, oh, 19 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 1: thank you for having me Hiram, can you tell us 20 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 1: how you got started in the skincare industry. Absolutely, it 21 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:43,000 Speaker 1: started kind of organically. I am a pharmacist, and so 22 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 1: I get questions from patients all the time, whether I'm 23 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 1: working or not, and just by listening to what they're asking, 24 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:53,640 Speaker 1: over time, you kind of learned what things are most 25 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 1: important to him. And I had a lot of people 26 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 1: ask questions about their skin and what they could use 27 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: for it, and I him to realize there wasn't a 28 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 1: whole lot of good options. Guys, he has his customers, 29 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 1: his clients, his patients ask him questions all the time. 30 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 1: I wonder if some of those questions are, how do 31 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 1: you make a firebomb? With me an all star panel 32 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 1: to break it down and put it back together again. 33 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 1: First of all, doctor William Moroney, the Chief Medical Examiner, 34 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 1: Bay County, Michigan chief Medical Officer, Recovery Pathways created a 35 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 1: new portable treatment center for oxygono codone addicts all over 36 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:35,799 Speaker 1: the country. It's a rolling RV medical treatment facility. Mark 37 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:39,239 Speaker 1: Tate with me Renown Lawyers joining me out of Savannah 38 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 1: represents Shadow County, South Carolina, suing opioid manufacturers and you 39 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 1: can find him at Tate Lawgroup dot com. Derek Ellington 40 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 1: joining US Today expert in fraud and online activity. Bobby 41 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 1: Cheko and former special agent with the FBI. Screenwriter of 42 00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 1: Criminal Minds and Special Guests. Alexis Terrest Chuck joining US 43 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 1: investigative journalists Crime Online dot com. Wow, that was a mouthful. 44 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 1: Let me go first to you, Alexis Terrest Chuck. How 45 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:14,640 Speaker 1: do you go from appearing on Kathy Ireland? Now? She's 46 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:18,959 Speaker 1: a sports illustrative model, correct, supermodel gorgeous, has her own 47 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 1: show it's called Modern Living, and that was airing on 48 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 1: Bloomberg and We TV. So how does a pharmacist end 49 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:32,639 Speaker 1: up sitting on a sofa with Kathy Ireland? He created 50 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 1: his own product line. A pharmacist, you know, is a 51 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 1: medical professional and he created this line that would help 52 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 1: ease scars. So she being, you know, help someone who's 53 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 1: sew into health and has her own program trying to 54 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: help people all over the world with the skin problems. 55 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 1: She brought him on, and you're right. She is a 56 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 1: supermodel cover Sports Illustrated. She has she lived in Beverly Hill. 57 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 1: She is really an impressive businesswoman and so she brings 58 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 1: on this pharmacists to say, Kathy Ireland is no idiot. 59 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 1: She's not just beauty, she's brains. You think she worked 60 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 1: her way up from nothing to get on Sports Illustrated 61 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 1: and then land this program and have like this mega 62 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 1: million dollar franchise, you know, just an assigned Alesia's Treshchuk. 63 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 1: They say the same thing about Jessica Simpson, that she's 64 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 1: a dumb blonde because of her reality show. Remember she 65 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 1: had with Nickola Shay. This girl sitting on like a 66 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:31,920 Speaker 1: billion dollar industry of selling shoes and clothes and products online. 67 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:34,280 Speaker 1: She's laughing all the way to the bank. Same thing 68 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 1: with Kathy Ireland. So she brings in the sky. Hiram 69 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:44,160 Speaker 1: Wilson to doctor William Maroney, Doctor Maroney, before I became 70 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 1: a crime fighter, you know, my mother wanted me to 71 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 1: become a pharmacist. I had never even taken chemistry. I 72 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:56,279 Speaker 1: go to college. The very first lab we have, chemistry lab, 73 00:04:56,560 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 1: I passed out because of the smell of the chemicals. Okay, 74 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 1: so it takes a unique mind to be a pharmacist. 75 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: What do you have to do to be a pharmacist? 76 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 1: Don't get offended, but is it like going to medical school? 77 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 1: How long. Don't don't stop off in a huff, Maroney. 78 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 1: I know that doctors are smarter than everybody else. Okay, 79 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:19,040 Speaker 1: but what do you have to do to be a pharmacist. 80 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:21,840 Speaker 1: We have to take a lot of the same science classes, 81 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:27,039 Speaker 1: and pharmacists have to have a business sense and a 82 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 1: better communication you know. The bedside manner they have is 83 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:35,040 Speaker 1: every single patient that walks through the door has a question, 84 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 1: and you have to explain the prescription drugs and the 85 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 1: regular drugs, and you have to break it down. You 86 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 1: have to dump Doctors don't have to do that. No, 87 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:48,040 Speaker 1: they're arrogance. Would you said that? Not me? People? I'm 88 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:50,279 Speaker 1: not going to let the twins doctors hear me say 89 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:53,839 Speaker 1: they're arrogant. But you did say that. Your word's not mine. Okay, 90 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 1: go ahead. So what kind of schooling? That's what I'm 91 00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:58,039 Speaker 1: trying to get out. How many years of school do 92 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:02,840 Speaker 1: you go to be a pharmacist? They have recently in 93 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:08,359 Speaker 1: the last decade made the highest level pharmacist doctor a 94 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 1: pharmacy called a farm D like an MD, And you 95 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 1: take four years of college and then you go to 96 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:20,920 Speaker 1: pharmacy school. You used to just go to college. That 97 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 1: was pharmacy school and you could be in and out 98 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 1: in four years, but it's not four years of college. Plot. 99 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:33,599 Speaker 1: And you know that's really important because these are the gatekeepers. Yeah, 100 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:36,599 Speaker 1: and you have to have somebody who's smart and who 101 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:40,800 Speaker 1: cares and who's empathetic at that end, because doctors are 102 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 1: rushed they can't explain stuff. Well, here's the thing. You've 103 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:48,159 Speaker 1: got to be careful who you give the keys to 104 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 1: the kingdom. Yeah. In other words, to all that mad 105 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:57,159 Speaker 1: opioid toxic content. Just there's just so many painkillers and 106 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:01,960 Speaker 1: powerful mads, guys, in addition to the pharma, says Hiram Wilson, 107 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 1: ending up sitting on a siphon next to Kathy Ireland, 108 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 1: he brings on a special guest with him. Now, I 109 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 1: want you to pay special attention to. This is your 110 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 1: cut number six. This is Hiram Wilson all with Kathy 111 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 1: Ireland with her lifestyle show Modern Living on Bloomberg WTV, 112 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 1: and he brings on a patient named William Burgamy the fourth. 113 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 1: About ten years ago, I got into a little accident 114 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 1: and I had some scarring on my face and it 115 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 1: stuck with me ever since up until using scargenics and 116 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 1: utilizing the product. I've been using it for about forty 117 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 1: five days now and the lines have completely blended in 118 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 1: with my skin tone. Everything is blended together very very well, 119 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 1: and you can't even see him anymore. The product is 120 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 1: light and once I put the product on, there's no 121 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 1: need to even wipe my hands off afterwards. The reason 122 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 1: my turn towards Scargenix was because it has a lot 123 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 1: of natural properties in it. It's not overloading. I felt 124 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 1: like it wasn't something that was, you know, too overpromising 125 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 1: or push them. I've heard enough of William Burgamy the 126 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 1: fourth you know, I want to go out now to 127 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 1: Bobby Chicone joining me, former FBI special agent greenwriter for 128 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 1: Criminal Minds. Bobby, you know, when I would prosecute a case, 129 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 1: let's just say, a dope lord, I didn't want to 130 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 1: just get him. I wanted to get all the cockroaches 131 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 1: within his industry. So you look at who the dope lord, 132 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 1: that's just an example, is hanging out with. I guarantee 133 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 1: you they're not hanging out with nuns and priests and virgins. 134 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 1: So you look around at their associates, You look at 135 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:55,560 Speaker 1: where they meet. Do they go to the diner, or 136 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:57,560 Speaker 1: do they go to the strip club or the drug 137 00:08:57,600 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 1: den or the crack house, or do they meet in 138 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 1: their car. You have to put them under surveillance to 139 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:05,600 Speaker 1: find out who they're hanging out with. And I guarantee 140 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: you it's all business. So step number one, you look 141 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 1: not only at a target, but they're associates. How do 142 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 1: you do that, Bobby che Code, Well, you know you 143 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 1: do in a number way. Sometimes they make it harder 144 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 1: for you by being very m surveillance conscious, and sometimes 145 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: they make it easier for you. And when they go 146 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:28,439 Speaker 1: on TV and they bring in their friends and sitting 147 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 1: on the couch next to them and give the testimonials 148 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 1: for other things they're doing, it kind of it makes 149 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:37,560 Speaker 1: it easier to look at that person and establish a 150 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 1: network of contacts that that person currently has. I mean, 151 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:46,320 Speaker 1: this is a really interesting case because they actually you're 152 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 1: not kidding, Bobby, and it's all about scar genics. You 153 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 1: get rid of your scars with this newly created formula 154 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:12,080 Speaker 1: crime stories with Nancy Grace, you know, they went from 155 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 1: sitting on the sofa with Cathee Ireland, the beauty Queen, 156 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:21,560 Speaker 1: to this take a listen to crime online dot Com 157 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 1: investigator reporter Dave Mack. Federal investigators say Hiram Wilson regularly 158 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 1: mailed thousands of prescription pills, including opioids, from the Nebraska 159 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 1: pharmacy he ran to William Bergamy. William Burgamy in turn 160 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 1: allegedly advertised and sold the drugs on the dark Web 161 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:43,080 Speaker 1: under the name of never Pressed RX, selling oxycodone and 162 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 1: other narcotics without a prescription. A cut of the profits 163 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:50,000 Speaker 1: were then paid to Wilson as Bitcoin payments, wire transfers, 164 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 1: and bundles of cash through the mail. The dark web 165 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 1: transactions worked the same way as any online transaction. Users 166 00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 1: follow instructions to place in order and pay for it 167 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 1: with cryptocurrency like bitcoin. Burgamy use the US Postal Service 168 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: to ship the products. The FBI photographed Bergamy as he 169 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:10,080 Speaker 1: made trips to the local post offices where he allegedly 170 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 1: mailed prescription drugs to various dark web clients. Burgamy use 171 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:16,680 Speaker 1: several accounts to move the money and would then swap 172 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:19,320 Speaker 1: the bitcoin out for US currency. Okay, I'm trying to 173 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:22,319 Speaker 1: get my mind around what this pharmacist is allegedly up to. 174 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 1: We are talking about the neighborhood pharmacist that you go 175 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 1: to when you're a child has a call for the 176 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:30,839 Speaker 1: sniffles or a fever. How could he be part of 177 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 1: the dark Web sending unlicensed, unprescribed painkillers through the US 178 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:41,560 Speaker 1: mail using bitcoin. Okay, first of all, back to you, 179 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:46,080 Speaker 1: Bobby Chico and former special agent FBI explain in a 180 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:49,719 Speaker 1: nutshell if you can, what is the dark Web? Well, 181 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:52,600 Speaker 1: the dark web is a kind of a sub basement 182 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 1: of the Internet where there are many layers of encryption 183 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:59,080 Speaker 1: that you need to get through, and so you need 184 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 1: special skills and special knowledge to just to find this place, um, 185 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 1: you know, on the Internet, or some people call it 186 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 1: apart from the Internet, but it's it's really a deep, 187 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 1: dark kind of place. And we say dark because it's 188 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 1: very difficult to get to. You need to know how 189 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 1: to get there. You need to know the keystrokes basically 190 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 1: that you need to type into your computer on Bob, 191 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:22,520 Speaker 1: I've got to get to our computer expert. I'm gonna 192 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 1: circle back to you, Bobby. Derek Ellington Expert Online Activity, 193 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:32,920 Speaker 1: certified fraud examiner at ellington dot net. Derek Ellington, I'm 194 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 1: always struck by pedophiles in that they say I was 195 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 1: just looking up X and suddenly child porn jumped onto 196 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:48,080 Speaker 1: my screen. You know what, in all the years I 197 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 1: have looked up murders, murder, weapons, murder for high or 198 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 1: you name every kind of crime, I have never had 199 00:12:57,200 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 1: child porn or pornography at all just pop up on 200 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 1: my screen. It's never happened. Hows it happened to you? Brett? No, okay, 201 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:12,080 Speaker 1: So how does this work to you? Derek Ellington? How 202 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 1: do you go to the Internet and everybody type seeing Google? 203 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:20,080 Speaker 1: How do you suddenly end up on the dark Web? Well, Nancy, 204 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 1: as my mother would say, if you were where you 205 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:24,960 Speaker 1: were supposed to be, doing what you were supposed to 206 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:29,319 Speaker 1: be doing, this would not have happened. But I think 207 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 1: it's important for the listeners to understand that for most 208 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:37,080 Speaker 1: of us, when we start our Internet journey, we will 209 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 1: go to something like a search engine, which is what 210 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:44,680 Speaker 1: we call Google being Yahoo, and when you search using Google, 211 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 1: you're not actually searching the Internet. You're searching a list 212 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:52,320 Speaker 1: of Internet sites that someone else has created for you. 213 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:55,600 Speaker 1: And when they make that list, they make choices about 214 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 1: what to leave in you know, what to take out 215 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:01,559 Speaker 1: and stuff. So one way of sort of looking at 216 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 1: what the the dark web is is in a way 217 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 1: you can think of it like, maybe there's a restaurant 218 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 1: or a store in your town and they don't advertise, 219 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 1: They don't they have a building, but they don't have 220 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 1: a sign out front. And the only way you know 221 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:18,840 Speaker 1: where it is is if you if someone tells you 222 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:22,040 Speaker 1: specifically where it is. Maybe when you get there, there's 223 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 1: a doorman or a bouncer that that asks you for 224 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 1: a password or whoa, whoa what? Okay? So, um, I 225 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 1: want to go to a restaurant, but they don't have 226 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 1: a sign and they don't advertise, and when I get there, 227 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 1: I have to show a bounce or some kind of 228 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 1: Idina's secret code. Yeah no, Well, and the great thing 229 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 1: is this is this is something like you see a 230 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 1: lot with even pop up restaurants or something. So there's 231 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 1: a lot of exclusivity in our culture anyway when it 232 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 1: comes to things like that. But but picture once you 233 00:14:56,600 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 1: walk through that door. Maybe it's just a simple little 234 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 1: shop that sells one particular thing, or it could be 235 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 1: a sprawling shopping mall with every type of product imaginable. 236 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 1: And in essence, the dark web is simply websites selling 237 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 1: products and because of the nature of the products. They 238 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 1: don't want to be, you know, easily accessible on main street. 239 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 1: But but I'm the dark Web. You go to Google 240 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 1: Dark Web. Actually, you know, it does take a couple 241 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 1: of steps, but it doesn't really require that much effort, 242 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 1: and in fact, it's not something that you really have 243 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 1: to be a hacker or computer expert to do, because 244 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 1: the steps are laid out pretty easy. So you don't 245 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 1: get directly to the dark Web from Google, but the 246 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:50,120 Speaker 1: instructions are there. In essence, what you would do is 247 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 1: you can use your regular browser or special browsers that 248 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:58,720 Speaker 1: look for these sites that use a different kind of 249 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 1: set of direct actions. Okay, stuff right there, because four browsers, right, 250 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 1: there's a thing called what well, there are certain browsers. 251 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 1: One is called tour. But he's saying O R. What 252 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:16,800 Speaker 1: do you say, t O R? Tour something called a 253 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 1: tour browser. Wait a minute, if you don't know about 254 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:20,720 Speaker 1: the dark web, why are you holding up a sign 255 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 1: that says t O R Before he could even say it? 256 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 1: Never mind, I don't want to know. Okay, so you 257 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 1: basically have to work at it to get into the 258 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 1: dark Web. So Alexis Terres Chuck explain to me how 259 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 1: these allegations against a mild mannered pharmacist, I mean using 260 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 1: the dark web to sell illegal opiates. And when we 261 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:46,680 Speaker 1: say doctor William Moroney, illegal opiates, what are we talking about. 262 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 1: You're talking about anything that has not passed through traditional 263 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 1: licensing and business pathways. It's not prescribed, it's not covered 264 00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 1: by insurance, and it's a maintained through sources that are 265 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 1: not acceptable. And what do you mean by that? Because 266 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:08,159 Speaker 1: if somebody wants pain relievers and they don't want to 267 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:12,160 Speaker 1: go to the doctor, tell me why this is so wrong. 268 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: The traditional way you do this is you go to 269 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:18,879 Speaker 1: a doctor with a license, he writes a prescription, you 270 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:21,680 Speaker 1: go to a pharmacy with a license, and it's all 271 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 1: regulated by your state and the DA. If you skip 272 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:31,919 Speaker 1: all those, you're passing regulation and rejecting the laws that 273 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 1: controlled our medicine for safety reasons. Okay, so we're talking 274 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:41,440 Speaker 1: about OPM, heroin, fentanyl, morphine, coda, noxicodone, hydro coda, a thing. 275 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:43,840 Speaker 1: It's all the same. It's all the same, all right, 276 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:47,320 Speaker 1: And the reason we don't want people to have access 277 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:51,679 Speaker 1: to that without a legitimate pharmacist or a legitimate prescription 278 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 1: is because it will be misused, given to children, given 279 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:58,399 Speaker 1: to teens, given to people that are already addicts, people 280 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 1: that are not really in pain. That's what we're talking about, correct, 281 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:07,440 Speaker 1: doctor Moroney. Yes. And a perfect example is Prince put 282 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:11,440 Speaker 1: something in his mouth that he thought was a Norco. 283 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:15,639 Speaker 1: It was full of ventanyl and he died. That's a 284 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:21,679 Speaker 1: perfect example of why we follow regulatory pathways. Dope, smag eights, 285 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:24,760 Speaker 1: train thunder, a black Tar, China, white Horse and he 286 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 1: freeze brown sugar, Henry Horse, skag Hero held us junk. 287 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:31,400 Speaker 1: I mean it goes on and on and on oxy. 288 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:34,360 Speaker 1: I mean there's a million names for street drugs. So 289 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 1: Alexi's terrest check. How did this all blow up? Oh 290 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:40,600 Speaker 1: that was a bad pun because we're talking about a firebomb. 291 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 1: But I'm not understanding how we went from the mild 292 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:47,480 Speaker 1: mannered pharmacist that everybody knows he's on the sofa with 293 00:18:47,640 --> 00:19:04,920 Speaker 1: Kathy Ireland to an alleged fire bomb plot Time Stories 294 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:10,480 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking about Tyram Wilson, 295 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 1: a forty one year old pharmacist that is now tangled 296 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:19,359 Speaker 1: up and a fire bomb plot. And William Burgamy the 297 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:24,320 Speaker 1: fourth that sounds impressive. Somehow is tangled up in it 298 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:28,479 Speaker 1: with him, So Alexis, Alexis, take a listen, just for 299 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 1: one moment. To Crime online dot Com investigative reporter Cut 300 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:37,640 Speaker 1: three Dave Mack. The details of Hiram Wilson's firebombing plan 301 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:41,240 Speaker 1: was uncovered during William Bergamy's arrest. During a search of 302 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 1: Bergamy's home, investigators found notes for Operation Firewood in a 303 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 1: handwritten notebook in a leather binder, and text messages with 304 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:53,120 Speaker 1: Wilson on Burgamy's phone. Wilson instructed Burgamy and an unnamed 305 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:57,520 Speaker 1: individual to break into the pharmacy and steal drugs. Wilson 306 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:00,720 Speaker 1: allegedly told Bergamy that the competitor farmers he did three 307 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:03,160 Speaker 1: times the business he did, so they should have three 308 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:06,040 Speaker 1: times the pills. Wilson told them the drugs would be 309 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:09,040 Speaker 1: an alphabetical order and they should focus on H two 310 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:13,320 Speaker 1: hydrocodone to oxycodone. After stealing their drugs, he instructed the 311 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 1: pair to blow the place up using Molotov cocktails enhanced 312 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:19,480 Speaker 1: with styrofoam as a thickening agent to burn it to 313 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:21,879 Speaker 1: the ground. Guys who were hearing our friend Dave Mackett 314 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 1: Crime online dot Com. This is what is being alleged 315 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:29,720 Speaker 1: right now that pharmacist Hiram Wilson illegally selling prescription opioids 316 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:36,359 Speaker 1: from his shop, Hiram's Family Value Pharmacy Auburn, Nebraska on 317 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:39,840 Speaker 1: the dark web. But he needed more drugs to keep 318 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:48,240 Speaker 1: the illegal side business going, so mister Wilson, Hiram Wilson 319 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:54,160 Speaker 1: brings in a henchman. So Alexis Terreschuk Crime online dot 320 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 1: Com explained to me how Hiram Wilson gets tangled up 321 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:01,639 Speaker 1: with this guy Burga me the Fourth. He has found 322 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 1: him and he is using please use proper nouns. Who 323 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:12,680 Speaker 1: found who? Sorry, Hiram the pharmacist has found William Burgamy're 324 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 1: on a first name basis with the alleged fire bomber pharmacists. 325 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:24,280 Speaker 1: Hiram Wilson found William Burgamy the Fourth where they have 326 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:28,399 Speaker 1: known each other for years. They have apparently been doing 327 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:33,400 Speaker 1: businesses together. They've been doing this skidntcare line. It's unclear 328 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:36,520 Speaker 1: how that you actually know each other. But the pharmacist 329 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:40,520 Speaker 1: is using Burgamy to illegally sell the hydrocode. When he 330 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 1: gets so. Pharmacists are given a certain amount of drugs 331 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:46,800 Speaker 1: every month from the FDA. You are a pharmacist who 332 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:49,680 Speaker 1: have twelve patients, you get ten pills per month per patient. 333 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 1: You get one hundred and twenty per month. That's it. 334 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,200 Speaker 1: You don't get anymore. You have a certain amount. Well, 335 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:59,360 Speaker 1: the pharmacists decided that he wanted to sell more because 336 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:02,640 Speaker 1: he was given to burgamy signed them on the dark 337 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:06,360 Speaker 1: web for a huge profit. You know, if he's able 338 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 1: to give it covered by insurance, he gets maybe ten 339 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:11,440 Speaker 1: dollars per pills. He's selling it through this dark web. 340 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:14,520 Speaker 1: He's making one hundred dollars per pill. And also, I 341 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 1: just want to say I tried to get on the 342 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 1: dark web while investigating this story. I don't think it's 343 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 1: as easy as the previous guest had said. My husband 344 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 1: really said, drink am I getting a little bit of 345 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:27,359 Speaker 1: trouble here. You know, you can't just get there from Google, 346 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:30,159 Speaker 1: Chrome or anything. So I think you're right about that, 347 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:33,520 Speaker 1: Alexis torres Chuck. It may be easy for Derek Ellington 348 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:39,200 Speaker 1: because he's an online expert who specializes in fraud, but 349 00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:41,640 Speaker 1: for regular people, but I gotta warn you, I think 350 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:45,400 Speaker 1: your husband is right. Alexis ures Hut because that's how 351 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:50,959 Speaker 1: the FBI initially found Burgamy the fourth, because they can 352 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 1: get onto the dark web just like Derek Ellington can, 353 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 1: and they see this guy all the dark web and 354 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:01,960 Speaker 1: begin investigating him. And where does the cricket path lead 355 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:07,560 Speaker 1: straight to the home town pharmacist? Mark Tate is a 356 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:10,320 Speaker 1: special guest joining me today. He's a renowned attorney out 357 00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:17,960 Speaker 1: of Savannah, and Tate has actually taken on opioid manufacturers 358 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:21,760 Speaker 1: and that is not easy. You can find him at 359 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:24,879 Speaker 1: Tait Lawgroup dot com. Mark Tate, Is it true that 360 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 1: you actually met the hometown pharmacist Hiram Wilson for the firebombing? 361 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:34,960 Speaker 1: Go ahead? I met him long before the firebombing. I 362 00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:40,439 Speaker 1: met him at a stout and serves alcohol. And this 363 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:46,480 Speaker 1: Nebraska pharmacist, after that intervention where he was acting pretty peculiarly, 364 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 1: wound up leaving that bar involuntarily. Okay, please don't talk 365 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:55,959 Speaker 1: like a lawyer now. I love that an opposing counsel 366 00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:58,879 Speaker 1: does it in court because as gurars go, oh, but 367 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:01,680 Speaker 1: what are you saying? Did you get thrown out of 368 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 1: a bar? What happened? No? An ambulance carried him away 369 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 1: after he was inappropriate and belligerent and violent with me. Whoa, 370 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,320 Speaker 1: you actually got in a fight with Harold Wilson. I 371 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:15,359 Speaker 1: gotta fight with that guy? Why over? What did you 372 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:17,280 Speaker 1: know it before that? Oh? Hell no, he tried to 373 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 1: take my son's cigars. Okay, wait a minute, all right, 374 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:28,000 Speaker 1: how old is your son? And when did this occur? 375 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:33,080 Speaker 1: About two or three years ago? So when he's twenty? Yeah, 376 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 1: what's the drinking limit in your jurisdiction? You were not 377 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:40,920 Speaker 1: in the United States? Uh? Huh? Okay, So you take 378 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 1: your son offside and you're in a bar. Yeah, hey, 379 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:47,640 Speaker 1: you knew this was cunning date. You take your son 380 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,159 Speaker 1: out for a cigar and a drink? Now did you 381 00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 1: not just hear Derek Ellington's mother say if you were 382 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,120 Speaker 1: were you supposed to me? This would not have happened? 383 00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:01,159 Speaker 1: But oh yes, I absolutely agree. We're where how do 384 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:06,120 Speaker 1: you get? You know how close you came to big trouble. 385 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 1: This is a guy that is accused in an intricate 386 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:12,200 Speaker 1: plot by the Feds, and they don't play all right 387 00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:14,720 Speaker 1: for you to get charged by a FED. They've got 388 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 1: boxes and boxes of documents on you. I know I 389 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,359 Speaker 1: was a FED for a while. So you're in a bar. 390 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:22,760 Speaker 1: How many stories start that way I'm in a bar, 391 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:25,840 Speaker 1: but normally they don't say next, with my son and 392 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:30,159 Speaker 1: a cigar, what did Hiro and Wilson do? We were 393 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:34,480 Speaker 1: approached by him and he tried to take my son's cigar. 394 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 1: My son told Louie couldn't get it to him because 395 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:40,200 Speaker 1: he had tuberculosis, which was a complete lion a joke. 396 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:43,119 Speaker 1: And I asked this this fellow to leave us because 397 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 1: we would never be at the level he was. He 398 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:51,160 Speaker 1: refused to leave and became belligerent. My son then told him, 399 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:54,119 Speaker 1: you have no idea what you're about to get into. Well, 400 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:57,879 Speaker 1: the guy came at me, and I had to obviously 401 00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 1: defend what was happening, and you had to defend a cigar. 402 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 1: I had to defend the way he's squeared up on 403 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: my son, on your son and right, and you start 404 00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,399 Speaker 1: with me and my twins, and you'll say nothing but 405 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:15,600 Speaker 1: teeth and nails. No. So well, you get in a 406 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 1: five in a bar and he gets taken away. What 407 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 1: did you punch him? Oh? No, no, no. He came 408 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,440 Speaker 1: at me and I just stepped aside and pushed him 409 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:27,679 Speaker 1: and he lost his footing, I think, And you know, 410 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:29,680 Speaker 1: if I were you and you tell that story in 411 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:32,199 Speaker 1: your future, I'd go with a punch because it's just 412 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:34,879 Speaker 1: a whole lot better the story. So I'm telling you 413 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:39,440 Speaker 1: the reason I'm going with that story, missus Graces Ms, 414 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:43,680 Speaker 1: Miss Grace, Yeah, is that the security guard. We didn't 415 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:46,040 Speaker 1: want there to be any trouble for me, So just 416 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 1: that's it. When you putty sarrived, you tell him to 417 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:53,680 Speaker 1: mount it off his footing and hit his head. Yeah, 418 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:57,359 Speaker 1: you know what I find interesting about that story? Um, 419 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,760 Speaker 1: And I don't know quite how to exp blameet, but 420 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:04,160 Speaker 1: I'm going to go to you. Bobby chicon following up 421 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:09,040 Speaker 1: on Mark Tait's story of what happened down in the island, 422 00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:14,280 Speaker 1: sounds like by that accent it was in Jamaica. But okay, 423 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:20,240 Speaker 1: Bobby chicombe, are you surprised at all because I know 424 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:23,240 Speaker 1: he's the hometown pharmacist involved in a fire bombing plot 425 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:27,360 Speaker 1: with some thug. But the way, I would never dream 426 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,720 Speaker 1: of going up to someone at a bar or a 427 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 1: restaurant or anywhere and getting in a fight because they 428 00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:36,480 Speaker 1: wouldn't sell me something they had on their person, and 429 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,440 Speaker 1: making threats just out of the blue, such as hey, 430 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:41,480 Speaker 1: you don't know who you're dealing with. Yeah, it seems 431 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:43,480 Speaker 1: like he was a hometown pharmacist that wanted to be 432 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:45,840 Speaker 1: a whole lot more right, he had other businesses, he 433 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:49,040 Speaker 1: had infommercials. He was living in his mind at least 434 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:53,560 Speaker 1: a little larger than his hometown pharmacy persona might have indicated. 435 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 1: And so it seems like he had some personality issues 436 00:27:56,320 --> 00:28:00,440 Speaker 1: that he wanted to be a lot bigger than that 437 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 1: he was, And that's indicated by some of his not 438 00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:05,679 Speaker 1: only his behavior, but some of his correspondents, um, you know, 439 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 1: with the guy who was selling drugs for him and 440 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 1: things like that. So I think that that his behavior 441 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:14,400 Speaker 1: is is kind of consistent throughout in both the infomercial 442 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:18,440 Speaker 1: world and and and his his dealing with his competitive 443 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:22,680 Speaker 1: pharmacies in that small town. And obviously now when he's 444 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:25,800 Speaker 1: on vacation or you know, away from that town. He 445 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,119 Speaker 1: seems to be a guy who who is living a 446 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 1: little larger at least in his mind, um, than a 447 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:34,399 Speaker 1: smalltown pharmacist. Well you may call it living larger, but 448 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 1: I call it sticking one foot in hell. I'd rather 449 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 1: have the hometown pharmacists any day than a guy involved 450 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:58,080 Speaker 1: with selling opioids over the dark Weather Time Stories with 451 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:03,080 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Guys, thank you for being with us here 452 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:05,840 Speaker 1: at Crime Stories. If you were to look at these 453 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 1: two like I'm looking at them right now, you can 454 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 1: see him on Crime online dot Com. They look like 455 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 1: ordinary business people. I'm looking at Hiram Wilson and William 456 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 1: Anderson Burgamy the Fourth. They look like upstanding business guys, 457 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,440 Speaker 1: you know, well manicured, well groom, got on a suit, 458 00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:28,520 Speaker 1: the works. That's not at all what they are. Appearances 459 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 1: can be so misleading. Back to you, Alexis Torreschuk joining 460 00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:35,200 Speaker 1: US Crime online dot Com. Break it down, Tell me, 461 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 1: So the FBI start looking at Burgamy the Fourth on 462 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:42,239 Speaker 1: the dark web. They can get on there too and 463 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:48,440 Speaker 1: see what he's doing, dealing dope with bitcoin, hoping to 464 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 1: cover his tracks by not using credit cards or regular 465 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:57,080 Speaker 1: US currency. Then what happens? How does a firebomb get 466 00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:00,480 Speaker 1: into this? Alexis? So the FBI sits up this guy. 467 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:02,120 Speaker 1: They don't say my bad, that's not the right word. 468 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:07,160 Speaker 1: The FBI purchases drugs from Burgamy four times so to 469 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:09,400 Speaker 1: prove that he is selling these drugs. They've set them 470 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:11,680 Speaker 1: up so they finally get enough evidence that he is 471 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,600 Speaker 1: dealing drugs on the dark web, and they get a 472 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,600 Speaker 1: search warrant from a judge and they go in his 473 00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:21,600 Speaker 1: house to arrest him for selling these illegal drugs. And 474 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:28,480 Speaker 1: they find a cash of weapons of yep rifles, you know, 475 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:32,720 Speaker 1: R fifteen rifles. They find all the things to make 476 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 1: the Molotov cocktail, and they find a notebook, handwritten notebook, 477 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:40,720 Speaker 1: the nicest handwriting I have ever seen, truly, you know, 478 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:43,840 Speaker 1: and even can see that. They open up the notebook 479 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 1: and it has a plan for something called Firewood. They're 480 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:53,200 Speaker 1: looking at this Firewood would mean Operation Firewood, Yes, Operation Firewoods. 481 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,760 Speaker 1: Of idiots. They keep written notes and even name and 482 00:30:56,840 --> 00:31:01,800 Speaker 1: this is a firebombing plot, to name it Operation Firewood. 483 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:05,800 Speaker 1: Sitting there with all of your Amolotov cocktail ingredients and 484 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:09,640 Speaker 1: your cash of automatic weapons. Okay, go ahead, idiots. So 485 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:13,080 Speaker 1: the police find this and they see basically the detailed 486 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:15,880 Speaker 1: plan laid out like I need a map, I need 487 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,520 Speaker 1: to know exactly where it is. Here the details about 488 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:20,680 Speaker 1: where the drugs are going to be stored in this 489 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:24,480 Speaker 1: other pharmacy. And as day Back said, you go for 490 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:27,120 Speaker 1: the H and the OH, which is what the pharmacist 491 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:29,560 Speaker 1: told him. So they have the whole plan right there. 492 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:35,640 Speaker 1: Just h and oh, I assume you're talking about oxycodone, 493 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:41,840 Speaker 1: and all I can think of hydroconone, Okay, gotcha. And 494 00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:47,479 Speaker 1: it's like the five five hundred, hugely more powerful than 495 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:49,640 Speaker 1: Thailand all you know what, like the most powerful pain 496 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,120 Speaker 1: killer you can take in a pillform. They give it 497 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:55,720 Speaker 1: to you after major surgery like back surgery, collapsalum surgery, 498 00:31:55,880 --> 00:32:01,400 Speaker 1: anything like that. So the police say, there is this guy, 499 00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:03,960 Speaker 1: this pharmacist in Nebraska, this guy who's been working with 500 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:06,120 Speaker 1: First they're thinking, oh, we got that's where he got 501 00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:08,080 Speaker 1: the drugs from. Because this guy burg, I mean, he 502 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,600 Speaker 1: wasn't making these drugs. And he wasn't certainly because he 503 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,800 Speaker 1: was saying when he was advertising on the Dark Weapon, 504 00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:20,200 Speaker 1: this is great, A plus pharmacy level. And I can 505 00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:23,000 Speaker 1: even show you the prescription bottle that'll show you that 506 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:26,880 Speaker 1: this is the real deal. And the investigating officer from 507 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:30,160 Speaker 1: the FBI said he knows in his experience for investigating 508 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:33,920 Speaker 1: this stuff for over a decade, that this is high level. 509 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 1: These are high level drugs. Operation Firewood. Who are these 510 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:43,200 Speaker 1: two going to firebomb? Because so far all I hear 511 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:46,240 Speaker 1: is ingredients in the home from Molotov, which I mean 512 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:48,800 Speaker 1: you can make that out of any accelerant and put 513 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:50,880 Speaker 1: it in a jar, cover it and throw it. But 514 00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:56,200 Speaker 1: it can be more sophisticated than that. So the ingredients 515 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,760 Speaker 1: from Molotov cocktail the cash of automatic weapons. And this 516 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:04,920 Speaker 1: journal very detailed, very precise, called Operation of Firewood. So 517 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:08,880 Speaker 1: who are they gonna bomb? They're gonna bomb the local pharmacy, then, 518 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 1: the one right down the road in the same town 519 00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:17,640 Speaker 1: as Hiram. Why because Wilson needs more drugs he is 520 00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:20,200 Speaker 1: only allotted a certain amount for his customers. Well, he's 521 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:22,960 Speaker 1: not the biggest pharmacy in town. This other pharmacy has 522 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,920 Speaker 1: competitor to three times to business. He has three times 523 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:30,120 Speaker 1: many customers. But why fire bombs them? Why this is 524 00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:32,840 Speaker 1: what we know out of business? Oh, I say, so 525 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,160 Speaker 1: he'll be the only game in town. Text to have 526 00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:39,360 Speaker 1: emerged between the two men revealing they've been planning Operation 527 00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:45,320 Speaker 1: Firewood for months on end Burgamy and another who we 528 00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:50,360 Speaker 1: now know to be the pharmacist, were to dawn skull masks, 529 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,920 Speaker 1: arm themselves with a salt rifle and shotguns, and hit 530 00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:58,720 Speaker 1: the rival pharmacy at night. They even had a getaway 531 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:02,480 Speaker 1: map showing the fastest routes to Kansas and Missouri that 532 00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:06,080 Speaker 1: they would take after the firebombing. They hoped destroying the 533 00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:10,400 Speaker 1: rival business would send its clients to Wilson and he 534 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,160 Speaker 1: could increase the amount of prescription drugs the pharmacy was 535 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:20,759 Speaker 1: allowed to order. Doctor William Moroni, Yeah, jump in, help 536 00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:24,239 Speaker 1: me out the pharmacist. I mean, they've got it right 537 00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:27,200 Speaker 1: down to hey, well, we are skull caps, and you 538 00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:29,680 Speaker 1: take the AAR and I'll take this show. It sounds 539 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:34,720 Speaker 1: like two fifth graders planning a firebombing. These guys watch 540 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:38,640 Speaker 1: too much TV, waite too much. You know, if you're 541 00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:41,759 Speaker 1: really doing your job and you're working hard, you don't 542 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:45,480 Speaker 1: have time for this stuff. But one of your guests 543 00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:49,560 Speaker 1: interestingly put out something that the general public doesn't know. 544 00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:56,440 Speaker 1: There are quotas opiate quotas, quotas on morphine, quotas on hydrocodone, 545 00:34:56,560 --> 00:35:02,759 Speaker 1: quotas on oxycodone, and if you sell your quota earlier 546 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:09,040 Speaker 1: in the month, you can't fill anymore. So they were 547 00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:14,120 Speaker 1: driven by greed and the love of money, because in 548 00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:19,879 Speaker 1: the pharmaceutical industry, the federal regulations are trying to encourage 549 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:24,600 Speaker 1: a more conservative presentation. Don't forget everybody's been blaming the 550 00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:29,520 Speaker 1: doctors for a decade on this opioid crisis. All those 551 00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:34,800 Speaker 1: prescriptions had to get filled by a pharmacy, pharmacists, pharmacies, 552 00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:39,720 Speaker 1: pharmacy corporations. They're all just as guilty. The doctors wrote 553 00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:44,200 Speaker 1: the prescription, but some fool out there had to fill it, 554 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:49,920 Speaker 1: And these over prescribing practices led to federal regulation that 555 00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:54,839 Speaker 1: introduced quotas the public doesn't mess. You know, Mark Tait, 556 00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:59,560 Speaker 1: you're an attorney in Savannah and you've taken on the 557 00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:03,400 Speaker 1: big pure manufacturers. That's not easy, but so often, and 558 00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:05,120 Speaker 1: I would have this happen when I would be trying 559 00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:08,480 Speaker 1: cases all the time. You meet a person and they 560 00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:12,200 Speaker 1: seem like one thing, there's something else altogether. And to 561 00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:14,920 Speaker 1: look at these guys, I'm looking at the photos right now, 562 00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:21,600 Speaker 1: they look like ordinary businessman. He looks like a pharmacist, 563 00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:25,560 Speaker 1: a young pharmacist, and the other one burging me the 564 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:29,720 Speaker 1: fourth They just look like regular guys, and they present 565 00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:33,680 Speaker 1: as regular people. Who would know, ever, that what you're 566 00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:37,680 Speaker 1: dealing with is someone plotting a firebomb that can result 567 00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:42,840 Speaker 1: in death or dismemberment. And this dart web dope dealing. 568 00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:47,520 Speaker 1: You're pharmacist taate right, Well, I find this really to 569 00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:54,759 Speaker 1: be fascinating because these First of all, the pharmacist mister Wilson, 570 00:36:55,320 --> 00:37:00,239 Speaker 1: in fact, is almost literally a snake oil seal. When 571 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:03,840 Speaker 1: he's taking oil from the nuts of an endangered tree 572 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:07,080 Speaker 1: in the Amazon and mix it with some alo via 573 00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:10,239 Speaker 1: and selling it as scar stuff. You know, it's not 574 00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:13,879 Speaker 1: FDA approved, So that's a little bit sketchy. And it's 575 00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:17,080 Speaker 1: even sketchier of course that he's hooked up with the 576 00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:19,879 Speaker 1: guy who threw the tour browser, which gets its name 577 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:25,040 Speaker 1: from the original project the Onion Router to find secret websites, 578 00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:28,399 Speaker 1: hooks up with him and is pumping opius through him 579 00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:32,800 Speaker 1: that are purchased with bitcoin, and then they lounder that money, 580 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:35,000 Speaker 1: and then they come up with this idea of blowing 581 00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:38,839 Speaker 1: up their only competitor in Nebraska, so he get up 582 00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:42,600 Speaker 1: his allocation by the distributor. Guys, I want you to 583 00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:45,480 Speaker 1: hear this. Take one more thing. You've got to hear this, 584 00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:50,120 Speaker 1: rolled Dave Matt Crime Online. Federal investigators found that Hiram 585 00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:53,400 Speaker 1: Wilson provided a satellite photo of the area with escape 586 00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:57,160 Speaker 1: routes Wilson had described the two ways of escaping, one 587 00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:01,200 Speaker 1: through town, the other headed south. At one point, Burgamy 588 00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:04,200 Speaker 1: told Wilson that he intended to carry at least one 589 00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:08,560 Speaker 1: rifle and at least one handgun while breaking into, stealing from, 590 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:13,120 Speaker 1: and firebombing the victim. Pharmacy text messages showed that Burgamy 591 00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:15,360 Speaker 1: made a list of equipment that would be needed to 592 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:20,239 Speaker 1: pull off the plan, a list that included body armor, weapons, bottles, 593 00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:25,120 Speaker 1: lighter fluid, and other materials. Agents later found eight loaded 594 00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:30,800 Speaker 1: weapons at Burgamy's Maryland residents, including two AR fifteen style 595 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:35,520 Speaker 1: semi automatic rifles. Amazing, they kept such copious notes in 596 00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:38,319 Speaker 1: their planning that it's going to be like shooting a 597 00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:41,600 Speaker 1: fish in a barrel come trial time. Alexis rush Stock, 598 00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:44,839 Speaker 1: Where does it stand right now? So these guys were 599 00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:48,960 Speaker 1: arrested and the police are prosecuting them. The thing is, 600 00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:53,239 Speaker 1: so these two are with this evidence, all they seem 601 00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:55,879 Speaker 1: to be doing is blaming each other. Oh I love that, 602 00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:58,680 Speaker 1: Alexis when you get two codefendants and they both go 603 00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:03,439 Speaker 1: as you can use all that at trial and we 604 00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:08,399 Speaker 1: wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace Crime Story, signing off 605 00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:09,839 Speaker 1: goodbye sand,