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Speaker 1: On the Bechdelcast, the questions asked if movies have women

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Speaker 1: and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,

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Speaker 1: or do they have individualism the patriarchy zeph and best

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Speaker 1: start changing it with the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 2: Dinner, We're going on tour. That was supposed to be

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Speaker 2: the intro to the Star Wars theme song. Did you

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Speaker 2: get that? Oh it sounded like I was going Donna, Okay,

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Speaker 2: Jamie and Caitlin. Here, we're going on tour and we're

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Speaker 2: not going on tour just anywhere. We're going on tour

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Speaker 2: in the Midwest and soon. Why did I make the

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Speaker 2: Star Wars noise? Well, it's because we're covering the Star

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Speaker 2: Wars prequels. If you haven't seen them, we're gonna just

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Speaker 2: cover all three at once. You know it's gonna be fine.

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Speaker 2: If you have seen them, you're gonna be so mad

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Speaker 2: at us. There's been so much talk about the prequels

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Speaker 2: over the years, often on podcasts we really like, often

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Speaker 2: by writers we really like, but never from an intersectional

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Speaker 2: feminist perspective. And so we're going on this tour to

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Speaker 2: quickly realize why that is so true.

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Speaker 3: And also some people love these movies. I know, I

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Speaker 3: don't quite get it, but we'll explore why. At the shows.

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Speaker 2: They're so soapy. I kinda like it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so you can see us discuss all three prequels

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Speaker 3: in one show, in fabulous outfits, in wonderful coseplay. You

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Speaker 3: don't want to miss this, among many other things that

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Speaker 3: you will see because we pull out all the stops.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: For our live shows.

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Speaker 2: Oh we it's embarrassing what we do.

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Speaker 3: We do fanfic, we do, I edit little videos that

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Speaker 3: I insist on screening. We do trivia.

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Speaker 2: I usually do some piece of performance art that no

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Speaker 2: one asked for.

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Speaker 3: It's a spectacle. Let me tell you.

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Speaker 2: It's all happening.

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Speaker 3: So we will be doing all of that and more

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Speaker 3: at the following cities. We will be in Indianapolis for

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Speaker 3: Let's Fest on Saturday, August thirtieth for a matinee show,

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Speaker 3: and then Jamie, you have a solo show that evening

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Speaker 3: that can't be missed.

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Speaker 2: Also at the Fountain Square Theater called Jamie Laftus and

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Speaker 2: her Pet Rock Solve the World's Problems, in which that

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Speaker 2: will happen.

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Speaker 3: I can't wait.

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Speaker 2: Then the next day, the very next day, we are

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Speaker 2: going to Chicago. You asked, we listened. We will be

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Speaker 2: at the Den Theater on August thirty. First, that show

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Speaker 2: is going to start around seven, seven to fifteen pm.

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Speaker 2: It's an evening show, a sexy little evening show. We're

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Speaker 2: so excited to go to Chicago and the Den Theater

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Speaker 2: is so beautiful, so Chicagoans do not miss it.

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Speaker 3: And then then we will be in Madison, Wisconsin on Thursday,

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Speaker 3: September fourth. I believe that's a seven thirty show and oh,

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Speaker 3: we're so excited to be in Madison.

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Speaker 2: And then finally we will be ending the tour in Minneapolis,

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Speaker 2: Minnesota at the Dudley Riggs Theater on Sunday, September seventh.

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Speaker 2: That is another evening show. It starts at seven o'clock

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Speaker 2: and that is where we're ending our grand tour of

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Speaker 2: the Midwest. So if you have been one of the

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Speaker 2: many people asking us to come to your town for

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Speaker 2: the last ten years we're doing it, we would love

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Speaker 2: to see you. The shows are super fun. As we've said,

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Speaker 2: if you're a Matron, specifically, if you're a member of

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Speaker 2: our Patroon aka Matreon, you get a free little gift

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Speaker 2: at the merch table when you come to say hi

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Speaker 2: after the show. It's a blast. It's going to be

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Speaker 2: a super good time. We love Siena. You can get

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Speaker 2: all tickets on our link tree at link Tree slash

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Speaker 2: Bectel Cast. Exqueeze me, We'll see you there.

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Speaker 3: Oh was that a jar jar impression?

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Speaker 2: I did? Yeah? I went there.

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Speaker 3: Wow. Enjoy the episode cast?

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Speaker 2: All right, all right, all right, yeah, I mean, I

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Speaker 2: guess that's the line.

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Speaker 3: I guess.

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Speaker 2: I guess that's the line.

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Speaker 3: I'd rather say that than some of the other choice

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Speaker 3: words from this movie.

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Speaker 4: What do you mean?

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Speaker 2: No, Welcome to the Bechdel Cast, as we say, where

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Speaker 2: you're disgusting older friends.

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Speaker 3: No, where your cool older friends.

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Speaker 2: We are mature friends who don't show up at parties.

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Speaker 2: We don't belong at. My name's Jamie Loftus.

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Speaker 3: My name is Caitlin Dronte. This is our show where

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Speaker 3: we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using the

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Speaker 3: Bechdel test as a jumping off point. And Jamie tell

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Speaker 3: me what that is.

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Speaker 2: Well, we're gonna actually need the Bechdel test today. There's

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Speaker 2: certain movies where you're like, yeah, we gotta glaze over it.

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Speaker 2: I think the Bechel test was actually created for this

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Speaker 2: exact kind of movie. M So, the Bechdel Test is

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Speaker 2: a media matter created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel with

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Speaker 2: her friend Liz Wallace, which is why it's often correctly

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Speaker 2: called Bechdel Wallace Test. I can't stop thinking about. We

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Speaker 2: recently had Alson Bechtel on the show and we're like,

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Speaker 2: where is Liz Wallace And she's like, I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I met her at a karate class and we lost touch,

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Speaker 2: and you're like, okay, wow, wow, I love that. Anyways,

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Speaker 2: they co created this test together originally as a way

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Speaker 2: of commenting on how there was no queer representation for

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Speaker 2: primarily women in movies, but it has since become a larger,

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Speaker 2: more mainstream media metric, which means it's been heteroonormative affied.

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Speaker 2: Here's the version of the test we use. Our version

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Speaker 2: of the test requires that two characters with names who

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Speaker 2: are of a marginalized gender speak to each other about

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Speaker 2: something that isn't a man. And this movie is really

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Speaker 2: gonna stretch this test to its very limits. Yes, like

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Speaker 2: many nineties movies, I feel like most of the arguably

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Speaker 2: Bechtels fasting things are women being horrible to each other,

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Speaker 2: which technically counts, but spiritually it doesn't. We'll get into it. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's the Dazed and Confused episode. I don't know how

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Speaker 2: it took us nine I mean, one could even say avoidance.

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Speaker 3: We might have been avoiding it for this whole time.

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Speaker 3: I feel like pre Pandemic, we scheduled a live show

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Speaker 3: in Austin, and I think we were considering covering this movie.

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Speaker 3: I think we ultimately were like, we should do whip

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Speaker 3: it instead. And then it doesn't matter. The whole show

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Speaker 3: got canceled because of COVID, But yeah, we were we

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Speaker 3: were like, hm, days and confused. Maybe this is the time,

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Speaker 3: and then you know, five years past. So now we're

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Speaker 3: doing it.

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Speaker 2: It's five years. We don't talk about that. We have

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Speaker 2: an incredible guest here today. Let's get her in here.

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Speaker 3: Let's do it. She's the author of the book I

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Speaker 3: want to burn this place down. Great title. It's Mary's Chrisman.

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Speaker 2: Hello, Hi, what an honor to be here.

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, thanks for coming.

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Speaker 2: Before we get into the Dazed and Confused of it all,

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Speaker 2: tell us more about your book.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's an essay collection about all of the things

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Speaker 5: I want to burn down basically, and if you take

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Speaker 5: a look at the world right now, you might have

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Speaker 5: a few items on.

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Speaker 3: Your list too, certainly.

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Speaker 5: So it's basically about all of the institutions and ideas

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Speaker 5: that I used to revere that I just no longer

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Speaker 5: do because they have not worked.

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Speaker 2: It is a great book, Thank you, And speaking of things.

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Speaker 3: That you might want to burn down, Yeah, dazed and confused,

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Speaker 3: I don't want to put words in your mouth.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we don't know how you feel about this movie. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: So to start, what is your history with this movie?

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Speaker 2: What's your relationship with this movie?

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Speaker 5: So I'm a little bit older than you, and this

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Speaker 5: is important because I had just started high school when

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Speaker 5: this movie came out. Okay, so for the longest time

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Speaker 5: I was like, well, that's what high school's supposed to be. Like,

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Speaker 5: you know, if that's not an accurate depiction of high school,

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Speaker 5: then what's going on? I guess I should say too

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Speaker 5: that at that time, yes, I had a strong desire

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Speaker 5: to fit in sure, so I absolutely understood why hazing

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Speaker 5: is so exciting to some people.

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Speaker 3: Let's say that, yeah, I mean, characteristic of so many

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Speaker 3: movies from this era about teens, is like, yeah, this

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Speaker 3: is how high school is, and isn't that awesome? Actually?

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Speaker 2: Yes, right, that's what is like one of the many

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Speaker 2: tricky elements of this movie where it's like, to some extent,

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Speaker 2: like there is some scary, realistic stuff that does happen

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Speaker 2: in high schools and like dynamics that I recognize, but

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Speaker 2: they're just kind of presented without comment. And that's being

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Speaker 2: generous because because there's almost like aspirational to be like,

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Speaker 2: you're gonna if Parker Posey. I mean it's a bad

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Speaker 2: example because I would let Parker Posey scream at me

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Speaker 2: in a parking lot and cover me and ketchup. I

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Speaker 2: mean absolutely, and like that would kind of be like

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Speaker 2: a kinky day for me.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But but theore, you know, it's just like and this

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Speaker 2: is what and isn't that cool? It's like, I don't know,

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Speaker 2: there's like fun nostalgia vibes because it's clearly based on

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Speaker 2: Richard Linklater's childhood, to the point where there was a

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Speaker 2: lawsuit about it, which I'm excited to talk about. Wow,

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Speaker 2: oh I don't know that part basically he used the

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Speaker 2: I mean, it was a bunk lawsuit and probably more

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Speaker 2: embarrassing that they even filed it, but there were three

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Speaker 2: of his former classmates. Their last names are water Send, Slater,

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Speaker 2: and Floyd, and they filed a defamation lawsuit against Richard linklater,

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Speaker 2: and I was like, guys, you just pretend to say

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Speaker 2: I haven't seen it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, But then also, Dick Link, don't use real people's names,

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Speaker 3: like have some creative Yeah, that's weird.

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Speaker 2: Well unless he actually did base them on those guys.

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Speaker 2: And there's a guy named Woderson who should feel like

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Speaker 2: a piece of shit.

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Speaker 3: I mean, true, Yeah, I'm kind of on the fence. Sure, sure, Jamie.

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Speaker 3: What's your relationship with this movie?

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Speaker 2: Not very much. I saw this movie once in college

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Speaker 2: and I did this is just like not my kind

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Speaker 2: of movie. I feel the same way about what's the

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Speaker 2: George Lucas version of this movie American Graffiti. Yes, where

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Speaker 2: it's like a director in his thirties making a movie

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Speaker 2: about like high school was so fucking cool. Man, it's

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Speaker 2: just like never been my bag at all. Also has

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Speaker 2: to do with that I was a total fucking dork.

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Speaker 2: So I'm sure that there's like an internal like I

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Speaker 2: didn't find it aspirational to like watch party movies. I

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Speaker 2: think it just reminded me of parties I was not

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Speaker 2: invited to. So I don't have a lot of history

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Speaker 2: in this movie. I do have a lot of history

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Speaker 2: with Richard link Later. Yes, he directed my favorite movie

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Speaker 2: of all time, School of Rock. But the thing with

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Speaker 2: Richard Linklater is that he has such like range that

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Speaker 2: you can also really hate some of his movies. I

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Speaker 2: wouldn't say I hate this movie. I definitely don't like it.

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Speaker 2: I didn't know Ben Affleck was in it, and I

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Speaker 2: guess that's that's a pertinent thought.

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Speaker 4: I mean, there are a lot of cameos to talk about.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because I kept feeling like there's no way, but

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Speaker 2: then by the third time, you're like, no, that is

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Speaker 2: that is him, Ben aff Preveneers.

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Speaker 3: That's why you didn't recognize him.

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Speaker 2: It's hard to recognize him with his original teeth. You

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Speaker 2: had to like go back to the nineties. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: mister duncan himself in Texas. Maybe he's doing a better

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Speaker 2: job at acting because we talked about this in our

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Speaker 2: Gone Girl episode. But like having to suspend my disbelief

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Speaker 2: to be like, yeah, Ben Affleck lives in Missouri, Sure

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Speaker 2: it wouldn't happen. All I don't really care for this movie,

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Speaker 2: but I am excited to talk about it, and I

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Speaker 2: also get why people like it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think if I had seen this like at

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Speaker 2: the right time, it would have hit better for me.

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Speaker 2: I don't know, Kaitlyn, WIT's your history with this movie.

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Speaker 3: Pretty similar to yours, Jamie. I saw it during the

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Speaker 3: Great Caitlin movie binge of two thousand and five when

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Speaker 3: I was a freshman in college that is, watching just

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Speaker 3: like a Bazilian movies, and I never returned to it

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Speaker 3: since until prepping for this episode, because it clearly did

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Speaker 3: not appeal to me enough to revisit it. I think

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Speaker 3: it's an interesting concept in theory. I mean, I don't

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Speaker 3: I like a day in the life of an ensemble

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Speaker 3: cast of characters. It kind of reminded me of what's

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Speaker 3: that other teen movie where they go to a party

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Speaker 3: for the whole time and we covered it recently.

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Speaker 4: Can hardly wait?

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Speaker 2: Yes, exactly what is that movie? Tower Records? Empire Records,

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Speaker 2: Empire Records with some of the cast, in fact, some

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Speaker 2: of the same cast. Yes, a similar kind of like

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Speaker 2: Hang nineties movie. I don't know, I never I can't

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Speaker 2: gelll the nineties Hang, even though this is the seventies,

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Speaker 2: it's the nineties.

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Speaker 4: I'm gonna be your normy friend.

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Speaker 3: No, this is good.

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Speaker 2: I want I mean, like I wanna. I don't know. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I like a lot of movies that aren't. I mean,

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Speaker 2: people love this movie though. That's the other thing, is like,

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Speaker 2: this is a good movie.

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Speaker 3: I'm told it's like well crafted. It's just that most

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Speaker 3: of the characters are absolutely despicable and very hard to

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Speaker 3: root for sure looking at it through a twenty twenty

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Speaker 3: five lens.

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Speaker 2: Which is true of a lot of high schoolers to

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Speaker 2: this day.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Absolutely, But I even feel like the hazing stuff felt

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Speaker 5: like in the nineties, okay, question mark.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and now it's just.

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Speaker 5: So loaded with Trump and ice and all of these

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Speaker 5: terrible things that like, I can't it's hard to go

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Speaker 5: back and be like, oh, yeah, that was cool, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So anyway, I saw it for the first time back

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Speaker 3: in the day about twenty years ago, and I too

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Speaker 3: find Dick Link aka Richard Link later a versatile director

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Speaker 3: in that sometimes I love his movies aka The Before Trilogy,

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Speaker 3: and sometimes I don't love his movies aka Dazed and Confused.

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Speaker 3: But we'll talk more in the meantime. Let's take a

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Speaker 3: quick break and then we'll come back for the recap.

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Speaker 3: And we're back. Okay, So preface for the recap. There's

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Speaker 3: like eight thousand characters in this movie. A lot of

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Speaker 3: stuff happens. I'm gonna kind of like skip over some stuff,

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Speaker 3: but i feel like I've got the core beats.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So this movie is basically a day in the life

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Speaker 3: of a bunch of teams on their last day of

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Speaker 3: school in Austin, Texas in nineteen seventy six. It is

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Speaker 3: mostly teens who are about to be seniors and then

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Speaker 3: a few kids who are about to be freshmen. We

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Speaker 3: meet a character named Pink. He's the quarterback of the

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Speaker 3: football team, but he's also hanging out with stoner kids

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Speaker 3: like Slater played by Rory Cochrane, which is one of

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Speaker 3: the actors in Empire Records, as well as a kid

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Speaker 3: named Pickford who is throwing an end of school party

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Speaker 3: that night. Pink is also friends with a group of

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Speaker 3: like I guess, kind of bookish teens who play poker together.

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Speaker 2: Featuring another recent actor on the Pod, Anthony Rap. Anthony

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Speaker 2: Rap's jawline in the nineties was like hard to wrap

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Speaker 2: your head around, like it's in a good way, but

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Speaker 2: you're like, whoa, how is this physically possible?

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Speaker 3: Sure? Yeah, we talked about him on our recent episode

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Speaker 3: on Adventures and Babysitting. He plays a character named Tony.

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Speaker 3: And then we also have Mike played by Adam Goldberg,

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Speaker 3: as well as Cynthia played by Marissa Rabisi, who is

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Speaker 3: Giovanni Ribisi's twin sister.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, missus scientology herself exactly, Ohn, Are they scientologists?

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Speaker 6: Oh?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, they are lifelong good grief well shit anyway,

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Speaker 2: So we have those trio of characters, we meet some more.

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Speaker 3: Football players like Don Benny, question Mark name.

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Speaker 2: A generic white guy named It's someone in the movie.

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Speaker 3: And then we'll eventually meet O'Banion, which is Ben Affleck's character.

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Speaker 3: And the two things with the football players are that

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Speaker 3: they're debating on whether or not to sign this pledge

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Speaker 3: from their coach that they won't drink or do drugs

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Speaker 3: over the summer. And the other thing is that they're

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Speaker 3: obsessed with beating the shit out of freshmen. Those are

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Speaker 3: the two things.

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Speaker 2: Like above anything else in their lives. Yeah, I knew

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Speaker 2: older kids that really thrived when bullying others and not

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Speaker 2: to handage to them, but they usually did have like

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Speaker 2: a second thing they did, but obeyed. Like it's no

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Speaker 2: wonder he was held back. He treats it like a job.

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Speaker 3: Full time job.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I've never seen a class of almost seniors pay

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Speaker 5: so much attention to freshmen ever in my entire life.

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Speaker 2: Right, well, actually this is a good point to ask,

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Speaker 2: like what was what were your respective high school experiences,

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Speaker 2: because I my high school was really big and so

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Speaker 2: like this might have happened, but it would have been

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Speaker 2: like with a specific social group, like no one knew

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Speaker 2: who each other was. And I am grateful for that

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Speaker 2: because I think I would have been bullied worse if

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Speaker 2: I was in a small school and people could keep

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Speaker 2: track of you. But like there were five thousand kids,

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Speaker 2: so who oh my god. If someone was giving you

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Speaker 2: a hard time, you just sort of had to wait.

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Speaker 2: You'd lose them eventually.

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Speaker 3: My high school experience was kind of bizarre. We had

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Speaker 3: grades seven through twelve all in the same building.

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Speaker 4: Oh that's a lot.

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Speaker 3: Oh whow so we had like twelve year olds going

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Speaker 3: to school alongside eighteen year olds. That doesn't sound smart.

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Speaker 3: It was bizarre, And yeah, it was very small. I

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Speaker 3: would say it was probably only about it was like

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Speaker 3: usually one hundred or one hundred and twenty students per

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Speaker 3: graduating class. So what's that like eight hundred seven hundred kids?

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Speaker 3: And I was a weird mix of like I was

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Speaker 3: kind of a jock honestly, but not like a toxic

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Speaker 3: bullying kind. I just like played a lot of sports.

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Speaker 3: But then I was also like a mathlete, and I

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Speaker 3: don't know, I like ran in a few different circles.

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Speaker 2: That's the key. If you're a t if you're a teenager,

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Speaker 2: that's the Yeah. Because I did like dorky stuff, all

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Speaker 2: of it possible. But I also was on the dance team,

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Speaker 2: and I feel like that was my saving grace. Sure

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Speaker 2: at the end of the day, where there was one

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Speaker 2: thing that was quote unquote socially acceptable, right, I just

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Speaker 2: have one socially acceptable skill.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Maris, how about you?

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Speaker 5: I was a theater kid. Nice, but I also I

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Speaker 5: felt like a lot of high school for sure passed

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Speaker 5: me by, probably for the best.

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Speaker 4: I think that's probably for the best.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I was about to say, it's like I enjoyed

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Speaker 2: high school more than I enjoyed college, which I think

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Speaker 2: is unusual. Yeah, but I do feel like really thriving

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Speaker 2: in either of those faces is like dream bigger.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, which is like sort of the ethos at the

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Speaker 3: end of the movie where yeah, what's his face? Pink

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Speaker 3: is like if I ever say that these are the

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Speaker 3: best years of my life, like that fucking sucks. And

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Speaker 3: then the other kid is like, well, yeah, but I'm

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Speaker 3: gonna make the best of my time here while I'm

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Speaker 3: stuck here, and it's like, yeah, but also your idea

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Speaker 3: of like making the best of it is beating the

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Speaker 3: shit out of children, so we're not too sure about that. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I have some notes, Okay, So yeah, that's the whole

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Speaker 3: thing with these like senior football players is that they

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Speaker 3: relentlessly bully and physically abuse children. And there's one kid

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Speaker 3: in particular who they're after, Mitch, and then he has

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Speaker 3: a few like freshman boy pals who are also targets,

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Speaker 3: and the seniors chase these freshmen to one of the boys' houses,

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Speaker 3: but the kid's mom pulls a shotgun on Ben Afflex character.

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Speaker 2: One of my favorite moments of the movie.

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Speaker 5: I think, yeah, one of the only moments when there's

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Speaker 5: an adult who does something, which so that's fine, I know.

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Speaker 3: Right, And the thing with Obanyon ben afflex character is

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Speaker 3: that he's like particularly thirsty for the blood of children. Anyway,

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Speaker 3: make no mistake, the boys aren't the only ones terrorizing

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Speaker 3: younger people, because meanwhile, the senior girls, such as characters

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Speaker 3: played by Parker Posey and Mila Djovovich, is there, among

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Speaker 3: others wilds. They are also bullying, slash hazing freshman girls

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Speaker 3: by squirting. I would say hot dog condiments, yes, onto them.

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Speaker 2: I was thinking about it. I was like, ultimately it's

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Speaker 2: corn dog coated because of the flower Ah. I see, yes,

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Speaker 2: they're frying in the sun.

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Speaker 5: Oh.

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Speaker 2: I saw the vision for this vicious bullying. Yeah, I

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00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:10,639
Speaker 2: saw the vision. I think they're at least creative about it. Yeah.

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Speaker 5: But then they get put on leashes towards the end

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Speaker 5: of the frying yeah, and that seems to have nothing

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Speaker 5: to do with corn dogs no, and.

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Speaker 2: Then they just kind of start free wheeling it. So,

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Speaker 2: like I was reading about just like general production stuff,

397
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Speaker 2: especially when it's like earlier in a director's career, I'm like,

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Speaker 2: I think that they just had to do that, and

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Speaker 2: that is in fact what happened. They like were in

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Speaker 2: a hot parking lot, not wearing sunscreen, having ketchup poured

401
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:42,520
Speaker 2: all over them, and you're just like, Dick, Dick, come on,

402
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:46,520
Speaker 2: come on, you can't actually turn your young actors into

403
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Speaker 2: hot dogs. It's a bad look.

404
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:53,399
Speaker 3: Yeah. Anyway, so we meet some of these girls and

405
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Speaker 3: if you're wondering if we will really get to know

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Speaker 3: any of them, well the answer is no, aside from

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00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,960
Speaker 3: kind of Parker posey, but not really. And then also

408
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Speaker 3: this freshman girl, Sabrina, who ends up linking up with

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Speaker 3: a senior boy, Tony, the Anthony Rapp character, and we

410
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Speaker 3: can talk more about that, but basically Sabrina ends up

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Speaker 3: kind of befriending this senior girl, Jodie, where it's that

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Speaker 3: idea that if the younger teens can withstand the hazing

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Speaker 3: from the older kids, then they're cool enough to hang

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Speaker 3: around the seniors. So then Slater and Pink head to

415
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Speaker 3: Pickford's house. He's the one who's throwing the party that

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Speaker 3: night because his parents are heading out of town. But

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Speaker 3: then the beer keg delivery guy shows up early and

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00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:51,719
Speaker 3: Pickford's dad realizes what's going on, so his parents decide

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Speaker 3: to stay home and Pickford has to cancel the party.

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Speaker 2: I guess that's the second responsible parent he's scary. Yes, yeah,

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Speaker 2: but that is I guess responsible parrot number two, right,

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Speaker 2: maybe the final one.

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Speaker 3: Right? And now this means that all of the other

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Speaker 3: teens have to figure out something else to do that night.

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Speaker 3: Some of them just kind of drive around for a while.

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Speaker 3: The football players head to the freshman's baseball game to

427
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Speaker 3: go after Mitch. They capture him and beat him with

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Speaker 3: a paddle. Then Pink, who goes easy on Mitch, invites

429
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Speaker 3: him to hang There's like a similar dynamic between Jody

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Speaker 3: and Sabrina where Pink kind of befriends Mitch, and then

431
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Speaker 3: he and Wooterson, the Matthew McConaughey character, who is famously

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Speaker 3: a lot older than the high school kids that he

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Speaker 3: hangs out with. They take mitche to this like pool

434
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:56,920
Speaker 3: hall place where Mitch meets a sophomore girl, Julie, who

435
00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:02,440
Speaker 3: he thinks is cute. Meanwhile, the freshman boy's minus Mitch,

436
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:07,879
Speaker 3: so like just Mitch's friends are leaving a junior high

437
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:14,640
Speaker 3: dance ready to become men, aka, they're ready to objectify

438
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:16,720
Speaker 3: women even harder.

439
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:21,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is another movie where it's not the worst

440
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:25,439
Speaker 2: offender of this by far. And I'm curious what you

441
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 2: both think about it, because I'm like, I feel like

442
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:29,480
Speaker 2: it's maybe a teeny bit aware of it, but then

443
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 2: later not as much. But how like all of the

444
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 2: boys treat girls horrible at one point or another. I

445
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 2: think that ultimately, unfortunately, Richard Linkliner's allegiance is still with

446
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:49,040
Speaker 2: the nerdy guys even though they do say and do

447
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 2: many of the same things that the jocks are doing.

448
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 2: They're just more aware of it. Yeah, which kind of

449
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 2: makes it worse. Which is the thing that we talk

450
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,920
Speaker 2: about all the time with like these like eighties, nineties,

451
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 2: Stock two thousands stock geek characters that like get the girl.

452
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 2: Because and this is a generalization, but it is true,

453
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 2: dorks are the ones that end up directing movies, and

454
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,879
Speaker 2: so that's why you see that so often. There's an

455
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:20,440
Speaker 2: element of wish fulfillment. I can say that because I'm

456
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 2: one of them, but that they are kind of behaving similar,

457
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 2: if not identically, to the like antagonist jocks.

458
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 3: It's almost like the logic is, yeah, the nerds are

459
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:40,160
Speaker 3: similarly toxic and horrible toward girls and women, but they

460
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,920
Speaker 3: do it a little differently than the jocks, so it's

461
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 3: actually fine.

462
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 2: They put a little intellectual twist on misogyny, and we

463
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:50,120
Speaker 2: love that.

464
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:53,200
Speaker 5: I'm gonna give them one credit, which is that they

465
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:55,879
Speaker 5: do hang out with the Marissa Rabisi character.

466
00:26:56,160 --> 00:27:00,920
Speaker 4: Yes, and she is an ee ish character.

467
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, she is one of the women or the you know,

468
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:08,040
Speaker 3: teen girls who gets more characterized than the others.

469
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:11,680
Speaker 2: I wish that Richard linklater had more of an interest

470
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,320
Speaker 2: in that character because I feel like there's a lot

471
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 2: going on with her that I felt like in a

472
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 2: good and bad way, kind of not seen but like,

473
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 2: well we'll get to. Specifically, when the McConaughey character starts

474
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 2: to hit on her, like, it's not dealt with well

475
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:29,919
Speaker 2: in the movie, but I was like, that's like a

476
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 2: dynamic that happened for sure. Is like dorky girl or

477
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 2: like art girl feeling recognized and like attractive to an

478
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:43,239
Speaker 2: older person who is ultimately taking advantage of her. That

479
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 2: happens all the time. If only he had interest in

480
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 2: exploring how complicated and toxic those dynamics are, right.

481
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:53,840
Speaker 5: Rather than just being like she won right right.

482
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,640
Speaker 2: That is where they leave it, like and she's going

483
00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:00,920
Speaker 2: to the Aerosmith concert because he's like he's fifty five

484
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:03,480
Speaker 2: years It's so wild because it's like they have to

485
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 2: keep calling Matthew McConaughey old because he is basically everyone

486
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:10,640
Speaker 2: else's age. I didn't realize that Joey Lauren Adams is

487
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:12,639
Speaker 2: older than him.

488
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:15,679
Speaker 5: Yeah by a year, and Parker Posey too, and yeah,

489
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 5: so it's like Matthew McConaughey, I think they like they

490
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:19,440
Speaker 5: make him up.

491
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 2: Well, but he is twenty four in this movie. You

492
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 2: shouldn't be hanging out with high schoolers. But they talk

493
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 2: about him like he's like he's like their parents. Yeah,

494
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 2: because they're like, he graduated high school when we were three.

495
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:31,879
Speaker 2: I was like brutal, I know. I was like, was

496
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:37,119
Speaker 2: that hyperbole or not? Hard to say? Probably, But in

497
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 2: any case, we're with the freshman boys for a moment,

498
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,960
Speaker 2: and then Obanion and some of the other football players

499
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 2: start chasing them down and they catch and flog a

500
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 2: kid named Hirschfelder who had just been making out at

501
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 2: the junior high dance with.

502
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 5: A with a girl who clearly stuffs her bra with

503
00:28:58,480 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 5: two pairs of socks.

504
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, good for her. Then we cut to I

505
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 3: think the pool hall again, where a bunch of teens

506
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 3: are it's hard to keep track of who everyone is

507
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 3: and where they are.

508
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is a vibes movie. Es. Yeah, you're just like, Hey,

509
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 2: at some point the characters started blurring together, and I'm like,

510
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 2: I have to be okay with this.

511
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 3: Well, so many of them look alike. They all have

512
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 3: a very similar hairstyle, well, bottoms, yeah, same clothes. Yeah,

513
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 3: way too many of them are white people. So yeah,

514
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 3: but this is the part of the movie where Woodterson

515
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 3: aka Matthew McConaughey's character says the infamous line of I

516
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 3: get older, but high school girls stay the same age.

517
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 2: The line that launched a thousand products at Spencer's Gifts.

518
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 3: Oh god, yikes. Okay, So then the football boys and

519
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 3: Mitch drive around. They smash some mailboxes and car windows

520
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 3: for fun. Then a man whose mailbox was smashed comes

521
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 3: after them with a gun he's shooting at them. They

522
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 3: speed away, and they head back to the pool hall,

523
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:16,720
Speaker 3: where this guy named Melvin has Mitch by him a

524
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 3: six pack of beer, and Mitch is able to convince

525
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 3: the store clerk that he's eighteen, even though he's visibly fourteen.

526
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 5: So, yuh, I feel like the seniors look like grown

527
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 5: adults and the freshmen are children. Yeah, and yet somehow

528
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 5: was the legal age eighteen drinking ages back.

529
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 2: Then in the seven Yeah, it was.

530
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 3: I had to look this up.

531
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,719
Speaker 5: Okay, that makes it a little bit better.

532
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 2: What is the year that changed?

533
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 3: Nineteen eighty four? I think?

534
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 2: Okay, because I think, but yeah, I'm pretty sure that

535
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 2: my dad was cool in high school, which is like

536
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 2: so weird to think about because I would say he's

537
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 2: a very uncool adult. But this is like literally exactly

538
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 2: when my parents were in high school. M like, my

539
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 2: dad used to throw a house party. He was famous

540
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 2: for throwing like house party ragers, and I was.

541
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 3: Like, whoa, I know he was the Pickford of the group.

542
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 2: I guess none of this trickled down in the bloodline.

543
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 2: The wanting to be at a party really did not

544
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 2: get down to be in my brother. But I do

545
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 2: remember that they used to be like we just got

546
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 2: in under the wire. We could drink when we were

547
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 2: eighteen and rem because my aunt was like younger than

548
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 2: him and she was able to drink. And then she wasn't.

549
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 2: She was like this cusp and she took that personally right.

550
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:45,080
Speaker 3: So Mitch was able to buy this beer. His friends

551
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 3: approached him outside the liquor store to be like, hey,

552
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 3: let's get back at ben Affleck for kicking our asses,

553
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 3: and they pour a bucket of paint on him on

554
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 3: the Obanian carear and he's humiliated. He freaks out and

555
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 3: storms off, and then at some point Woodson announces that

556
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 3: there's a party later on at the Moon Tower. Then

557
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 3: he bumps into Cynthia and Mike and Tony while they're

558
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 3: driving around, and Wooderson takes a liking to Cynthia and

559
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 3: she's into it, though her friends Mike and TONI are like, ooh,

560
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 3: that guy's a creep. He's way older than you, and

561
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 3: she's like ha ha.

562
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 2: So what I actually thought that scene was again like

563
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 2: a missed opportunity because it did feel like, again like

564
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 2: a real life dynamic of the guys are like, that's

565
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 2: so fucked up you would, And then ultimately they're going

566
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 2: to go with where the social capital is, so of

567
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 2: course they're always gonna do it right, which is a

568
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:50,160
Speaker 2: very unfortunately teenaged thing.

569
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 3: Right because that scene ends with well are we still

570
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 3: going to go to the party, and they're like yeah,

571
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:58,720
Speaker 3: let's go. Yeah, but is there commentary?

572
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,720
Speaker 2: No? I mean, that's that's the whole problem. Is and

573
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 2: here's this thing you probably recognize. I don't have anything

574
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:08,960
Speaker 2: to say about it, but there it is. It is okay, cool.

575
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 3: Yeah. Then we cut to everyone arriving at the party

576
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 3: at the Moon Tower. Mike gets in a little tiff

577
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 3: with some agro dude named Clint.

578
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 5: I am sorry to announce that I looked him up

579
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 5: because he's in a lot of Dick's movies and he

580
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 5: he died by suicide last year.

581
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 2: Oh oh, that's horrible.

582
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 4: Sorry that brought it down.

583
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 3: No, I mean his character will later beat the shit

584
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 3: out of Mike in a scene that again, like there

585
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 3: could have been more commentary on the Mike character, because

586
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 3: he starts out kind of one way and then he

587
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 3: almost like Arcs so for the course of this one

588
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 3: day where he's like, you know what, I'm gonna lean

589
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 3: into being toxic and shitty, and then he incites this

590
00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 3: this fight with this guy. So that that happened. Other

591
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 3: things are happening, such as Tony and Sabrina link up.

592
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 3: This is the like kind of bookish Anthony Rapp character

593
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:15,799
Speaker 3: who is a senior and Sabrina is a freshman. Then

594
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 3: we've got Pink having to decide if he's gonna quit

595
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 3: football or not. And then he also cheats on his

596
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 3: girlfriend Simone with Jody, and we're sort of like, who

597
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:28,760
Speaker 3: are either of those people?

598
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:32,239
Speaker 2: I know, I wouldn't have known. I wouldn't have known

599
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 2: a thing. I was like, I think they both had

600
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 2: brown hair.

601
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 3: No one of them is blonde.

602
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:40,760
Speaker 5: Didn't know Joey Lauren Adams has a higher voice.

603
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:41,440
Speaker 4: That's how you know.

604
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:44,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, she has a soft voice. I wrote down because

605
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 3: I had to, literally, like, I hate doing this, but

606
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:51,280
Speaker 3: to differentiate the teen girls in this movie, I was like, yeah,

607
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 3: she's the one with longish blonde hair, and then this

608
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 3: other one is the one with shorter blonde hair, and

609
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 3: then this one is the redheaded one. Because we know

610
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 3: so a little about each one that you sort of

611
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:07,240
Speaker 3: have no choice but to identify them by their hair color. Anyway,

612
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 3: that's happening. Mitch is flirting with Julie, that sophomore girl.

613
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 3: Then the party winds down and a few of the

614
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:20,920
Speaker 3: teens head to the football field to smoke weed. The

615
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:23,799
Speaker 3: cops bust them. I think I'm pretty checked out at

616
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 3: this point, honestly. The next morning, the coach b rates

617
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 3: Pink for hanging out with his stoner friends, and Pink

618
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 3: is like, you know what, screw you man, And I

619
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 3: think that's the climax of the movie.

620
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:45,160
Speaker 5: A thing that I realized I misremembered about the film

621
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:49,800
Speaker 5: was watching it this time. I thought that Pink had

622
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 5: like a kind of the graduate moment at the end,

623
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:56,360
Speaker 5: like makes a decision and then has a moment of doubt.

624
00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:01,319
Speaker 5: But there's nothing on his face at all. Nope, he's

625
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 5: just not reflecting I think at all.

626
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 2: I feel like you could definitely see it both ways.

627
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:09,760
Speaker 2: I didn't feel strongly about it either way. I could

628
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:12,719
Speaker 2: see that, like I don't know, it feels like we're

629
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:17,400
Speaker 2: pink Lands, is that he probably still wants to play football,

630
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 2: but he doesn't want to like have the terms dictated

631
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:23,320
Speaker 2: to him.

632
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 6: All right.

633
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:25,840
Speaker 3: I mean, you could look at it like this is

634
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 3: a story about a kid who is like trying to

635
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:36,440
Speaker 3: defy the sort of authoritarian control of the older generation

636
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:41,880
Speaker 3: and like push society or at least his football team's

637
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:45,719
Speaker 3: dynamic in a more progressive way. But on the other hand,

638
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,520
Speaker 3: it's like the big arc of this movie is the

639
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:52,839
Speaker 3: star quarterback of the football team deciding to like say

640
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:54,920
Speaker 3: fuck you to his coach, and it's sort of like

641
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:56,440
Speaker 3: cool story, bro.

642
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:01,719
Speaker 5: But he decides to do drugs and drink instead, which.

643
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 3: Is yeah, and cheat and his girlfriend, so you know,

644
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:10,920
Speaker 3: could have been slightly more meaningful, but here we are.

645
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 3: And then the movie basically ends with Pink and his girlfriend,

646
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:24,720
Speaker 3: Simone and Woodson and Slater just driving around and smoking doobies.

647
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 2: Going to the Aerosmith concert.

648
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:32,719
Speaker 3: Woo the end. So let's take a quick break and

649
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:46,840
Speaker 3: we'll come back to discuss Where shall we start, Maris,

650
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:49,040
Speaker 3: Is there anything that jumps out to you?

651
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:52,239
Speaker 5: I want to always start with Parker Posey in this

652
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:55,880
Speaker 5: because another thing I misremembered was how much of the

653
00:37:55,880 --> 00:38:00,800
Speaker 5: movies she's in. She's like a very secondary character, third

654
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:04,400
Speaker 5: character tertiary, Yeah, tertiary.

655
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:06,520
Speaker 4: And yet I just she is so memorable.

656
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:10,360
Speaker 5: When I think of the movie, I think of her first,

657
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 5: and then to realize that, aside from the one scene

658
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 5: with the hazing, she doesn't really get to do anything.

659
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:21,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, which is sort of all of the women in

660
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:23,799
Speaker 3: the movie, as we were already hinting at.

661
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:24,759
Speaker 4: Yeah.

662
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 2: I found it was almost a ten year old article,

663
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 2: but I thought it was interesting. It was a bitch

664
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:35,720
Speaker 2: media article about sort of how women are portrayed throughout

665
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:40,720
Speaker 2: Richard Linkletter's catalog. Obviously there's a lot of variants because

666
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 2: his movies are so like he also did the Before trilogy,

667
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:47,320
Speaker 2: but men are definitely at the center of his movies,

668
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:51,600
Speaker 2: especially his comedies. And it's especially because it's like, there

669
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:54,799
Speaker 2: are women in this movie, but when you bounce back

670
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:58,440
Speaker 2: and forth constantly like we do from like cars full

671
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:00,880
Speaker 2: of boys and cars full of girls, it's just so

672
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:05,040
Speaker 2: obvious who he's interested in. Because one of the most

673
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 2: bummer things because it was a scene that I was like, ugh,

674
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:10,120
Speaker 2: I wish that there was more the scene you get

675
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 2: where Parker Posy and Joey Adams are in the car

676
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:16,360
Speaker 2: and they're like, what did they call me? Well, he

677
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 2: called you a bitch and he called she called you

678
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 2: a slut or whatever like, and it's just like the

679
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 2: most it feels improvised, And it turns out it's because

680
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:29,239
Speaker 2: it was improvised. Oh, Parker Posy asked if they could

681
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 2: just film something because so much of the scenes with

682
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 2: the girls had been cut out of the movie that

683
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:37,719
Speaker 2: I think, kind of in an act of desperation, she's like, here,

684
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:41,239
Speaker 2: just let's do this, and they like improvised that whole seed,

685
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:44,319
Speaker 2: which is why it's kind of like half baked and

686
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 2: sloppy for her, right, I was like, in retrospect, I'm like,

687
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:50,880
Speaker 2: I guess I am glad that's there because it was

688
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:54,200
Speaker 2: almost replaced with nothing, and it seems like, yeah, the

689
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 2: citation was a book that I don't have, but they

690
00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:00,239
Speaker 2: just cite a book that references the production of this

691
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:04,839
Speaker 2: movie where Richard linklater basically admits that he cut out

692
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 2: because they shot a lot for this movie because it

693
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:09,839
Speaker 2: was so loose. The actors had a lot of say

694
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 2: and what their characters said and did, like most of

695
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:16,440
Speaker 2: his movies, and then he just ended up cutting into

696
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:19,839
Speaker 2: the scenes with the women pretty intensely.

697
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 3: And you can tell.

698
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 2: You can tell, cause where are they.

699
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:26,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, there are a lot of them, but none of

700
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:29,279
Speaker 3: them necessarily aside from Parker Posey. And that might just

701
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:32,480
Speaker 3: be because we already, like with this hindsight, we know

702
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:34,719
Speaker 3: who Parker Posey is, and we know how dynamic of

703
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 3: an actor she is and how memorable of a presence

704
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 3: she can have on screen. But like again, her character

705
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 3: is given basically nothing. All the other teen girl characters

706
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 3: are given less basically nothing. We might learn some of

707
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 3: their names, other names, we don't know. The Mili Joviovic

708
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:57,400
Speaker 3: character doesn't even say a single word.

709
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 2: Again. Richard linklater said she didn't really gel with the group,

710
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 2: and so he cut all of her scenes. She had

711
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:08,759
Speaker 2: an arc and he just cut it. I was like,

712
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:12,719
Speaker 2: it's Milijovivich, it's your fault if she'd you know, yeah,

713
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 2: write a better character.

714
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:14,160
Speaker 6: Yeah.

715
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:16,880
Speaker 5: And you know, she ended up marrying the guy who

716
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:20,279
Speaker 5: played her boyfriend in real life. Oh, I didn't know

717
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 5: that when she was like still a teenager, you know,

718
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:25,480
Speaker 5: because she was I think sixteen when the movie was shot.

719
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 2: Oh my god.

720
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:30,680
Speaker 5: So she obviously vibed well with someone somewhere.

721
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:34,840
Speaker 3: You know, right, Is it Pickford who she's dating, the

722
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 3: kid who was supposed to throw the party?

723
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:36,799
Speaker 6: Yes?

724
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:39,839
Speaker 3: I think that's who she's like with. But it's also hard.

725
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 3: It took me forever to figure that out because when

726
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:45,799
Speaker 3: she's on screen, she's not saying anything or doing she

727
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:50,919
Speaker 3: does paint those like kiss statues. Yeah, but that's sort

728
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:53,799
Speaker 3: of it. And then yeah, the other characters, like there

729
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 3: will be like an interesting moment here or there, but

730
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,440
Speaker 3: they're so fleeting, especially compared to how the men are

731
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:03,240
Speaker 3: character that you kind of forget who was that girl

732
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:08,040
Speaker 3: again and what's her thing. There's a part where one

733
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:12,359
Speaker 3: of the girls, which one I don't remember her name,

734
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 3: if she even has a name, but she's talking about

735
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:20,520
Speaker 3: how Gilligan's Island, Oh yeah, is this like pornographic fantasy

736
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 3: for men? Because she's like, yeah, it's you know, these

737
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:28,240
Speaker 3: male characters being stranded on an island with a sexy

738
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:32,400
Speaker 3: lady and then like an approachable girl next door type.

739
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:36,360
Speaker 3: So you got the Madonna horror complex. And that's like

740
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 3: an interesting start to examining media.

741
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:42,759
Speaker 2: Right, we don't need high school girls to be operating

742
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:44,760
Speaker 2: at PhD analysis levels.

743
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:47,400
Speaker 3: They're talking right, and then but her friends are just

744
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 3: like whatever I thought the captain was sexy, and then

745
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:54,760
Speaker 3: like end of scene, we never see her again. Maybe

746
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 3: I don't even know.

747
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:58,919
Speaker 5: I think she shows up at the party, but because

748
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:00,319
Speaker 5: I remember pink pan that's.

749
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:04,880
Speaker 2: Oh okay, okay, that's that was my that's the north Star.

750
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 3: Pink pants, short, dark brown bob, I think is how

751
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:09,759
Speaker 3: we know her.

752
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 2: Basically, there were these scenes that felt I mean, I

753
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:18,720
Speaker 2: think the reason that this movie is tricky to cover

754
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:21,080
Speaker 2: on this show specifically is because I don't think that

755
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:24,080
Speaker 2: this movie, Like part of the approach to this movie

756
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:28,400
Speaker 2: is that it isn't trying to comment on anything really,

757
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:33,319
Speaker 2: and like reading about how Richards lank Later was making this,

758
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:37,200
Speaker 2: it seems like that is very tied into what the

759
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:41,480
Speaker 2: movie is supposed to be. But even so, it's like

760
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:47,360
Speaker 2: the men have stories that start an end, Like even

761
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 2: though there the stories are relatively low stakes, like whatever,

762
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:54,200
Speaker 2: that's great, but like how Pink is supposed to sign

763
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:56,320
Speaker 2: the piece of paper and at the end he says,

764
00:43:56,719 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 2: fuck the piece of paper, I don't want to sign it. Mitch,

765
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:02,719
Speaker 2: he has a whole arc of like this is his

766
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:05,279
Speaker 2: first party, and it's like if there are women who

767
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:09,200
Speaker 2: have arcs, it's generally like it ends with them kissing

768
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:14,440
Speaker 2: Anthony rap Like is there any other girl besides Sabrina

769
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:18,439
Speaker 2: And she's the only technically the only woman or girl

770
00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:21,640
Speaker 2: in the movie that has like an arc that starts

771
00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:22,120
Speaker 2: an ends.

772
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:25,799
Speaker 3: I think, so I would argue that maybe Cynthia, she

773
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:29,040
Speaker 3: is the redhead.

774
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:31,879
Speaker 2: Oh yes, oh, I guess I guess she'd But also

775
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:34,080
Speaker 2: it is just tied to like and then I met

776
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:35,839
Speaker 2: a guy, a guy.

777
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:38,839
Speaker 3: Who is this is the one of the like very

778
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:42,320
Speaker 3: obvious things for us to talk about on this show.

779
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:47,000
Speaker 3: As far as his famous line of Oh, that's what

780
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:50,480
Speaker 3: I love about high school girls. I get older, they

781
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 3: stay the same age. And that is something that you know,

782
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:57,200
Speaker 3: a statutory rapist might say, right.

783
00:44:57,080 --> 00:44:58,440
Speaker 2: Which is the joke.

784
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:03,239
Speaker 5: Unfortunately it's the joke, and the girls are interchangeable to

785
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:06,879
Speaker 5: him and to the film like that that is part

786
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:09,839
Speaker 5: of it too, And then I always get caught up

787
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:11,319
Speaker 5: in the what is he saying that?

788
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:12,359
Speaker 3: Right?

789
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:13,200
Speaker 4: Right?

790
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 2: I think part of the reason that that character has

791
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:19,480
Speaker 2: the legacy that it does is because of the approach

792
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:23,359
Speaker 2: that Richard Linklader takes is he's just presenting this guy

793
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:27,440
Speaker 2: and not commenting on this type of guy at all,

794
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:32,040
Speaker 2: which makes it really easy for like Spencer's gift stores

795
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:35,520
Speaker 2: for decades to come to just be like, this guy's awesome.

796
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:38,279
Speaker 2: That must have been what he was saying. I was

797
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:41,840
Speaker 2: like looking into the cast, because they cast mostly locally

798
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 2: for this movie, and I was like, I haven't. I

799
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:46,520
Speaker 2: don't think I've seen the actress who plays Sabrina and

800
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:51,080
Speaker 2: anything else. And it's because she quit acting in the

801
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:54,120
Speaker 2: late nineties and became an anti war activist.

802
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:56,160
Speaker 4: Oh wow, oh that's cool.

803
00:45:56,000 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 2: And she is to this day. Hmm, so good for Kristin,

804
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:06,239
Speaker 2: Hina Jessa nice. But in any case, it's almost hard.

805
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:08,120
Speaker 2: It's like it's hard to think of something to say

806
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:12,520
Speaker 2: about the Matthew McConaughey character that probably hasn't been said already,

807
00:46:12,719 --> 00:46:17,480
Speaker 2: but like I tend to agree.

808
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:21,520
Speaker 3: Well, there's like a quick moment as he's gearing up

809
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:27,359
Speaker 3: to spew his rapie rhetoric that one of the characters

810
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:31,160
Speaker 3: I think it's down maybe or someone says to the

811
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:35,480
Speaker 3: Waterson character like, oh, you're gonna end up in jail

812
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:42,160
Speaker 3: sometime soon because of his interest in minors. But that's

813
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:47,399
Speaker 3: such a throwaway line, it's not what anyone remembers. It's

814
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:51,239
Speaker 3: not like challenging his behavior nearly enough. Similar there's a

815
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:55,520
Speaker 3: part where the senior girls are hazing the freshman girls

816
00:46:56,040 --> 00:47:00,760
Speaker 3: and making them like propose to senior boys and being

817
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:04,719
Speaker 3: like I'll do anything, spit or swallow whatever, and then

818
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:09,239
Speaker 3: Slater says, oh, it's so degrading, But he's also like

819
00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:14,000
Speaker 3: laughing as he's saying this, and again not challenging any

820
00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:17,400
Speaker 3: one of his friends. And then later that same character says,

821
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:23,320
Speaker 3: the girls in our class are all prudes, worthless, little bitches, right.

822
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:26,480
Speaker 5: So you know, there's one thing I want to go

823
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:29,960
Speaker 5: back to with Waterson m hm. And maybe this is

824
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 5: me just try like being generous. But I thought that

825
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:41,040
Speaker 5: when he walks into the pool hall and the song

826
00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:47,680
Speaker 5: that's playing is Dylan's Hurricane m and he's walking in

827
00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:51,680
Speaker 5: there so seriously that you are meant to be laughing

828
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:52,920
Speaker 5: at him there.

829
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:58,840
Speaker 3: I could see that, I get to yeah, but also

830
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:02,400
Speaker 3: that is possibly a generous read.

831
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:06,200
Speaker 2: Well, I'm trying to think of other characters that meet

832
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:09,800
Speaker 2: this if like this isn't a good comparison Good Fellas

833
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:13,920
Speaker 2: go with, be here of like characters that the director

834
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 2: doesn't necessarily respect or be like, look at this awesome guy.

835
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:20,720
Speaker 2: But that's the cultural takeaway. I think there's an argument

836
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:22,600
Speaker 2: for that here. But I also feel like Richard Linklater

837
00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:26,320
Speaker 2: is saying like, because a good fella is Scarsese is

838
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:30,279
Speaker 2: like these guys are bad, these guys are sucking their lives. Yeah, right,

839
00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:32,919
Speaker 2: and Richard Linklater sort of yeah, again, it's tricky because

840
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:35,560
Speaker 2: he's just like, here's this guy, what do you think

841
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 2: of him? Which is an approach.

842
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:41,879
Speaker 3: But I did keep waffling back and forth on this

843
00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:46,040
Speaker 3: where I was like Okay, is this commentary in the

844
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:51,840
Speaker 3: sense that it is presenting very obviously shitty and abusive behavior,

845
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:55,279
Speaker 3: and then we're just sort of meant to like take

846
00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:57,520
Speaker 3: this in as the audience and be like, yes, that's

847
00:48:57,560 --> 00:49:00,640
Speaker 3: super shitty, or is it simply just presenting it and

848
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:06,000
Speaker 3: being like pretty wild teenagers in the seventies. Huh. But

849
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:10,680
Speaker 3: I ultimately concluded that it's sort of like a history

850
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:15,040
Speaker 3: was written by the victors, where like the ruling class

851
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:20,319
Speaker 3: of a typical American high school is the characters who

852
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:24,000
Speaker 3: are the most focused on in this movie. You know,

853
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:28,800
Speaker 3: the football playing jocks, the pretty popular people who tend

854
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:33,879
Speaker 3: to abuse their high social status. Not all of them.

855
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:36,920
Speaker 3: You know, that's a sweeping generalization, but it's pretty common

856
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:39,440
Speaker 3: and there's reason a lot of movies are about it.

857
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:42,880
Speaker 3: But again, yeah, it just feels to me ultimately like

858
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:47,720
Speaker 3: the movie is presenting this just being like, yeah, kids

859
00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:50,239
Speaker 3: got into some bad stuff, and maybe even some of

860
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:53,759
Speaker 3: them deserve to be punished, such as Obanion, Like he

861
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:56,840
Speaker 3: gets his come upance by having the paint dumped on

862
00:49:56,920 --> 00:50:00,360
Speaker 3: him and he's humiliated. But also it feels like the

863
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:03,640
Speaker 3: movie treats him almost like, well, yeah, he's the one

864
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:08,760
Speaker 3: bad apple, but the other jock bullies are nice. Actually,

865
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:11,920
Speaker 3: maybe because they befriend the kids who they beat the

866
00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:12,560
Speaker 3: shit out of.

867
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:15,840
Speaker 4: So here's a question.

868
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:18,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, I feel like when I first saw this movie,

869
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:22,440
Speaker 5: I thought like, is there like a high school fraternity

870
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:23,640
Speaker 5: and sorority system?

871
00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:25,480
Speaker 4: Like is there a Greek system?

872
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:25,919
Speaker 2: Right?

873
00:50:26,239 --> 00:50:28,560
Speaker 4: Like what are they being hazed for?

874
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:32,840
Speaker 5: And if they're being hazed, how do they choose which

875
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:36,640
Speaker 5: people get haste? Like with the with the guys, it's

876
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:39,560
Speaker 5: a little easier because you see sports and like you

877
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:42,799
Speaker 5: can imagine that they then grow up to play on

878
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:45,760
Speaker 5: the same teams and right, but like, how is Parker

879
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:50,160
Speaker 5: posey yelling at a random thirteen year.

880
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:53,600
Speaker 3: Old She literally just goes up to Sabrina, who is

881
00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:58,960
Speaker 3: not yet participating in the being hazed. She's chosen, Yeah,

882
00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 3: basically because she's like, she's attractive. Yeah, if she wants

883
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:04,239
Speaker 3: to be popular, if she wants to have all this

884
00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:08,759
Speaker 3: social capital, then she has to be hazed because that

885
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:13,120
Speaker 3: means we'll take her under our wing and haes her,

886
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:17,239
Speaker 3: but then ultimately befriend her. I guess I was.

887
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:19,520
Speaker 2: Also kind of puzzled by that to the point where

888
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:21,560
Speaker 2: I was like, is it a small town thing. Is

889
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:25,040
Speaker 2: it a seventies thing? Is it completely made up? Any

890
00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:28,120
Speaker 2: of these answers could be true. I don't, yeah, because

891
00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:31,560
Speaker 2: it is like the girls are being hazed for something

892
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:36,000
Speaker 2: way more general. Yes, yeah, this behavior like it's horrible

893
00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:37,960
Speaker 2: wherever it is, but it would make more sense in

894
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:38,920
Speaker 2: college to me.

895
00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:42,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, and even just the paddles. The paddles are very Greek.

896
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:46,840
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, I didn't get it. And then there's like

897
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:50,440
Speaker 2: that scene where Anthony Rapp is like, they're selling concessions.

898
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:56,480
Speaker 2: I'm like, they're selling concessions at the hazing ritual. I

899
00:51:56,480 --> 00:52:00,000
Speaker 2: guess I was like, if that's a thing, my school

900
00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:02,759
Speaker 2: was different. I don't know, Like kiss got beat up,

901
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:07,320
Speaker 2: there was bullying, but there weren't concessions. That's wild.

902
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:11,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not sure, but those are some of the

903
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:17,360
Speaker 3: few characters who do challenge the behavior of the kids

904
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:22,479
Speaker 3: with higher social status around them, and it's predominantly Mike,

905
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:27,120
Speaker 3: the Adam Goldberg character, who's like, it's so wild that

906
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:31,120
Speaker 3: our school and the entire community seems to just support

907
00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:35,880
Speaker 3: these hazing rituals. He and Tony ask Sabrina why she

908
00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:40,400
Speaker 3: would subject herself to this. She kind of has no answer.

909
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:43,960
Speaker 3: We can presume she wants to fit in and make friends,

910
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:46,640
Speaker 3: but there are some of the few characters who are

911
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:52,880
Speaker 3: actually challenging this. But then that culminates in Tony kissing

912
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:56,080
Speaker 3: a girl who's four years younger than her and in

913
00:52:56,160 --> 00:53:01,319
Speaker 3: high school, when those four years of development emotionally and

914
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:06,400
Speaker 3: like psychologically make a huge difference. Like that is an

915
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:08,840
Speaker 3: age gap that I am not okay with. But this

916
00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:11,960
Speaker 3: happens in like three or four different dynamics throughout the

917
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:14,640
Speaker 3: movie where a much older person gets with a much

918
00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:15,320
Speaker 3: younger person.

919
00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:21,680
Speaker 2: Yes, I mean that's the like whattersin and YEAHBC sorry KILLERBC.

920
00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:27,520
Speaker 3: Right, but that's presented with like no commentary, just like, yeah,

921
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:28,160
Speaker 3: this is how.

922
00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:30,640
Speaker 2: It is, right, I mean it's like and do I

923
00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:33,360
Speaker 2: believe that happened in the seventies. Yes, But again, like

924
00:53:33,719 --> 00:53:38,720
Speaker 2: that's the I guess that's the risk of just showing

925
00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:43,120
Speaker 2: without comment It feels like a tacit or like over

926
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:46,960
Speaker 2: kind of endorsement of like nothing nothing wrong with this.

927
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:50,680
Speaker 2: And again it's like there are interesting dynamics, not with

928
00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:53,279
Speaker 2: the age gap relationships. I'm talking more about like with

929
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:56,480
Speaker 2: the Mic character. Again, it's it wouldn't have been unusual

930
00:53:56,520 --> 00:53:59,520
Speaker 2: to see that dynamic that we saw of like, this

931
00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:03,239
Speaker 2: is so fucked up, but I'm too scared to personally

932
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:07,359
Speaker 2: do anything about it. Right, that is definitely a relatable thing,

933
00:54:07,440 --> 00:54:11,080
Speaker 2: But again it's just like it doesn't go anywhere. It

934
00:54:11,239 --> 00:54:13,800
Speaker 2: just sort of like, I guess, I just don't really

935
00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:17,120
Speaker 2: like this approach to filmmaking.

936
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:20,120
Speaker 5: Like I also wonder though, like I mean, and this

937
00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:22,719
Speaker 5: might be true for so many different nineties films, like

938
00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:25,880
Speaker 5: the age I was when I first saw this movie,

939
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:33,399
Speaker 5: I didn't have the vocabulary to express why this made

940
00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:34,240
Speaker 5: me feel weird.

941
00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:36,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, anti.

942
00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:39,960
Speaker 5: Bullying wasn't a thing like that, right, or like it

943
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:43,760
Speaker 5: wasn't bullying was just something that happened. And I wonder

944
00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:49,799
Speaker 5: if there was just so much less demand for him

945
00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:52,000
Speaker 5: to be the self aware back then.

946
00:54:52,640 --> 00:54:54,440
Speaker 3: That's what I kept coming back to.

947
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:59,239
Speaker 2: I would guess so because he does become, like to

948
00:54:59,320 --> 00:55:02,840
Speaker 2: his credit, way more self aware in future movies.

949
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:06,719
Speaker 3: He makes way many more thoughtful movies after this.

950
00:55:07,080 --> 00:55:08,799
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, he.

951
00:55:08,880 --> 00:55:11,680
Speaker 2: Can't do it, which almost makes this movie more frustrating.

952
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:13,399
Speaker 2: He's choosing not to.

953
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:17,879
Speaker 3: Right, I guess he learns by the mid to late nineties. Well,

954
00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:21,040
Speaker 3: that's something I kept coming back to where this movie

955
00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:24,400
Speaker 3: was released in nineteen ninety three, but it's set in

956
00:55:24,520 --> 00:55:27,600
Speaker 3: nineteen seventy six, so it has the benefit of over

957
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:32,920
Speaker 3: fifteen years of hindsight to make commentary if it wanted

958
00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:38,480
Speaker 3: to on things like, you know, casual sexism, casual racism,

959
00:55:38,640 --> 00:55:44,480
Speaker 3: casual homophobia, et cetera. But because it's still the early

960
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:48,160
Speaker 3: nineties when this is being written and made, and those

961
00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:53,799
Speaker 3: were such culturally pervasive attitudes still at that time that, yeah,

962
00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:58,600
Speaker 3: I think Dick Link just didn't have the where withal.

963
00:55:58,239 --> 00:56:01,520
Speaker 2: No one was asking for it, yeah, right, and I

964
00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:05,680
Speaker 2: guess he was like, Okay, great, I guess like yeah,

965
00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:09,879
Speaker 2: and even within this like style of filmmaking, there if

966
00:56:09,880 --> 00:56:13,720
Speaker 2: he had written characters, like if he had written women

967
00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:16,879
Speaker 2: that had and it's like, who knows, like if those

968
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:20,160
Speaker 2: scenes possibly do exist, of is there a scene where

969
00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:24,560
Speaker 2: we get more context for Parker Posey's character, Maybe, but

970
00:56:24,640 --> 00:56:27,359
Speaker 2: it was all cut, and like, is there a scene

971
00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:30,400
Speaker 2: where we get context for Bilee Jova Vicious character? It

972
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:32,920
Speaker 2: sounds like we did, but it was all gone. And

973
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:35,960
Speaker 2: so it's like if this movie was primarily made in

974
00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:38,279
Speaker 2: the editing room, that's on him.

975
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:42,760
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I would say also in the nineties,

976
00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:49,800
Speaker 5: the idea of a very long music video felt kind

977
00:56:49,840 --> 00:56:52,560
Speaker 5: of okay and cool. And if you just show a

978
00:56:52,640 --> 00:56:55,480
Speaker 5: lot of fun images and have a lot of good songs,

979
00:56:56,080 --> 00:56:58,000
Speaker 5: who cared about the words.

980
00:56:58,320 --> 00:56:59,960
Speaker 2: Right, that's a great way to put it.

981
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:04,200
Speaker 3: This movie does mostly just feel like a like a

982
00:57:04,239 --> 00:57:09,120
Speaker 3: best of compilation, like best Songs of the seventies. Yeah, yeah,

983
00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:11,359
Speaker 3: and there's teenagers there too.

984
00:57:11,800 --> 00:57:17,320
Speaker 2: It's best stock characters of the seventies, scored to what

985
00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:20,920
Speaker 2: had to have been a soundtrack that took up most

986
00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:21,640
Speaker 2: of the budget.

987
00:57:21,840 --> 00:57:23,360
Speaker 3: It did, Yeah, Oh it did.

988
00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:27,960
Speaker 2: Yep. That's really funny. Sure, I mean, I guess. But

989
00:57:28,080 --> 00:57:31,360
Speaker 2: also this is just like I love a movie with

990
00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:34,680
Speaker 2: a lot of great needle drops, but when there's too many, yeah,

991
00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:38,720
Speaker 2: it was a lot. I'm like insecure, insecure filmmaking. If

992
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:40,880
Speaker 2: you need that many needle drops to be like it's

993
00:57:41,000 --> 00:57:44,720
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy six, it's like, I could I could see that.

994
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:46,800
Speaker 3: I could see that, we get it.

995
00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:51,280
Speaker 2: Other there were characters that I like to disappeared, I thought,

996
00:57:51,320 --> 00:57:57,040
Speaker 2: I mean again, she's introduced in very what is this way?

997
00:57:57,160 --> 00:58:00,800
Speaker 2: They have a teacher who is we are introduced to

998
00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:04,200
Speaker 2: her by she's getting hit on by a student, and

999
00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:07,680
Speaker 2: I don't think she appropriately pushes back. She kind of

1000
00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:08,880
Speaker 2: rolls her eyes.

1001
00:58:08,560 --> 00:58:10,600
Speaker 3: And is like she gives them like a pat on

1002
00:58:10,640 --> 00:58:11,080
Speaker 3: the head.

1003
00:58:11,440 --> 00:58:14,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, but then she does have one of the better

1004
00:58:14,600 --> 00:58:17,600
Speaker 2: lines of the movie before we never see her again,

1005
00:58:17,720 --> 00:58:21,840
Speaker 2: where she's pushing back on celebrating the bisentennial because it

1006
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:24,680
Speaker 2: was like white slave owners who didn't want to pay

1007
00:58:24,720 --> 00:58:28,360
Speaker 2: their taxes. Good line, which we saw her again, Yeah,

1008
00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:32,120
Speaker 2: but we didn't because again, just like the way that

1009
00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:35,160
Speaker 2: he wrote this is like and people could just disappear

1010
00:58:35,200 --> 00:58:35,880
Speaker 2: at any time.

1011
00:58:36,800 --> 00:58:37,280
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1012
00:58:37,320 --> 00:58:41,840
Speaker 2: Speaking of which, there's again and I need help finding

1013
00:58:41,840 --> 00:58:47,200
Speaker 2: out what his name was. There's exactly one black character,

1014
00:58:47,680 --> 00:58:52,800
Speaker 2: Melvin Melvin. Okay, where again, this is an extremely white movie,

1015
00:58:53,080 --> 00:58:56,760
Speaker 2: and Austin in the seventies it was majority white, but

1016
00:58:56,840 --> 00:59:00,560
Speaker 2: there was way more diversity than we see in this movie.

1017
00:59:00,640 --> 00:59:02,800
Speaker 2: It seems like they're atam public high school. It doesn't

1018
00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:05,280
Speaker 2: seem like Amy. It's like a middle class public high school.

1019
00:59:05,320 --> 00:59:07,880
Speaker 2: It's unrealistic that it's as white as it is, and

1020
00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:10,680
Speaker 2: that the one black character we get to meet is

1021
00:59:10,760 --> 00:59:16,160
Speaker 2: so vague. He's just like another bully, Like we don't

1022
00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:19,280
Speaker 2: know anything about him except here's another bully.

1023
00:59:19,840 --> 00:59:22,480
Speaker 3: He's almost treated the way the teen girls are in

1024
00:59:22,480 --> 00:59:25,919
Speaker 3: the sense that he'll be around, we might recognize him,

1025
00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:29,600
Speaker 3: but he won't really say much. He won't be there

1026
00:59:29,680 --> 00:59:33,520
Speaker 3: super consistently, he won't have his own story arc, nothing

1027
00:59:33,600 --> 00:59:33,880
Speaker 3: like that.

1028
00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:37,520
Speaker 2: No, And again it's like you wonder, like, is there

1029
00:59:37,560 --> 00:59:41,480
Speaker 2: a version of this movie where he had more screen time? Maybe,

1030
00:59:41,560 --> 00:59:44,800
Speaker 2: but we'll never know. But it really like that choice

1031
00:59:44,840 --> 00:59:47,800
Speaker 2: sticks out like a sore thumb here. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah.

1032
00:59:47,840 --> 00:59:50,200
Speaker 3: It seems like the storylines that the movie is most

1033
00:59:50,240 --> 00:59:54,880
Speaker 3: interested in are Pink with his like should I succumb

1034
00:59:54,920 --> 01:00:01,040
Speaker 3: to tyranny from my football coach? And Mitch, who is

1035
01:00:01,480 --> 01:00:06,480
Speaker 3: the freshman boy who like shows that he's cool actually

1036
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:10,320
Speaker 3: because he was willing to be abused by older kids,

1037
01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:13,080
Speaker 3: and not that I'm blaming him for that, because again

1038
01:00:13,120 --> 01:00:17,880
Speaker 3: that's this is a familiar dynamic. Younger people and people

1039
01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:22,040
Speaker 3: with lower like social status in high school will generally

1040
01:00:22,760 --> 01:00:27,760
Speaker 3: do things to be accepted and to make friends and

1041
01:00:27,800 --> 01:00:31,720
Speaker 3: things like that. But the story is mostly interested in

1042
01:00:31,720 --> 01:00:35,040
Speaker 3: those two characters and not really anyone else.

1043
01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:38,480
Speaker 5: I mean, I could see the case that Sabrina is

1044
01:00:38,520 --> 01:00:39,760
Speaker 5: also meant to be like.

1045
01:00:41,240 --> 01:00:45,200
Speaker 2: The Mitch of ladies, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah. And

1046
01:00:45,240 --> 01:00:49,120
Speaker 2: it's again it's like, I like Sabrina in the performance,

1047
01:00:49,160 --> 01:00:52,160
Speaker 2: like she seems like a sweet kid. Yeah, and I

1048
01:00:52,200 --> 01:00:56,680
Speaker 2: feel like you could feel her predicament where especially in

1049
01:00:56,720 --> 01:01:00,640
Speaker 2: the scenes where she's being torn between it. It sucks

1050
01:01:00,680 --> 01:01:02,720
Speaker 2: that she ends up with the Anthony rap character because

1051
01:01:02,760 --> 01:01:06,720
Speaker 2: again you're presented with an interesting scenario of like, who

1052
01:01:06,760 --> 01:01:10,360
Speaker 2: does she think it's more important to impress boys or

1053
01:01:10,880 --> 01:01:14,920
Speaker 2: the girls who are like exerting this hazing control over her.

1054
01:01:16,000 --> 01:01:17,360
Speaker 2: It's an interesting setup.

1055
01:01:17,520 --> 01:01:21,040
Speaker 4: Ginger a Marian slutterbitch right right.

1056
01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:26,320
Speaker 2: It's like it would be interesting if it went anywhere interesting,

1057
01:01:26,560 --> 01:01:28,960
Speaker 2: which it doesn't, and so then it just sort of

1058
01:01:29,040 --> 01:01:32,840
Speaker 2: ends up coming off kind of not as good, I don't.

1059
01:01:32,640 --> 01:01:36,960
Speaker 3: Know, pretty flat. I feel like Cynthia also had potential.

1060
01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:42,080
Speaker 3: She's the like quote unquote guys gal who only hangs

1061
01:01:42,120 --> 01:01:45,520
Speaker 3: out with other boys, it seems, and again, that was

1062
01:01:45,600 --> 01:01:50,760
Speaker 3: a familiar situation many such cases. You know, that would

1063
01:01:50,800 --> 01:01:54,320
Speaker 3: have been easy to explore a bit further. It would

1064
01:01:54,320 --> 01:01:59,080
Speaker 3: have been easy for her to not end up with

1065
01:01:59,400 --> 01:02:02,959
Speaker 3: a creep, but again the movie didn't really have any

1066
01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:07,640
Speaker 3: interest in doing that. But uh, yeah, she was kind

1067
01:02:07,640 --> 01:02:10,120
Speaker 3: of the one character who I latched onto as far

1068
01:02:10,200 --> 01:02:14,200
Speaker 3: as like, can we know more about her, can we

1069
01:02:14,240 --> 01:02:16,600
Speaker 3: get a little bit more of her insight into the world,

1070
01:02:16,640 --> 01:02:19,320
Speaker 3: Because there's a scene where she and Mike and Tony

1071
01:02:19,360 --> 01:02:22,880
Speaker 3: are driving around and they're sort of realizing, Oh, everything

1072
01:02:22,880 --> 01:02:25,120
Speaker 3: that we're doing is in service of the future, But like,

1073
01:02:25,160 --> 01:02:28,160
Speaker 3: why don't we live in the now? And maybe that's

1074
01:02:28,200 --> 01:02:35,120
Speaker 3: what compels her to say yes to Waterson's advances. Maybe

1075
01:02:35,160 --> 01:02:36,720
Speaker 3: I don't know, I'm maybe not.

1076
01:02:36,640 --> 01:02:37,960
Speaker 4: Giving her enough credit.

1077
01:02:38,440 --> 01:02:39,560
Speaker 5: He was a cool guy.

1078
01:02:40,040 --> 01:02:41,440
Speaker 4: That's a cool guy.

1079
01:02:41,640 --> 01:02:44,400
Speaker 5: Right, what else do you need? If a cool guy

1080
01:02:44,480 --> 01:02:48,200
Speaker 5: is interested in you, you show interests back, because why

1081
01:02:48,280 --> 01:02:49,600
Speaker 5: be introspective about it?

1082
01:02:50,280 --> 01:02:54,400
Speaker 3: I mean right, exactly, Like we are conditioned to think

1083
01:02:54,520 --> 01:03:00,320
Speaker 3: that older, cool dudes are worthy of our attention, and

1084
01:03:00,360 --> 01:03:03,640
Speaker 3: if they pay attention to us, then, oh my gosh,

1085
01:03:03,680 --> 01:03:07,400
Speaker 3: that's going to elevate our social capital. That's that like

1086
01:03:07,480 --> 01:03:13,120
Speaker 3: reinforces the worth of a woman quote unquote. So yeah,

1087
01:03:13,320 --> 01:03:16,760
Speaker 3: the movie again it presents that without commenting on it.

1088
01:03:16,800 --> 01:03:21,280
Speaker 3: But again, it was nineteen ninety three, So still.

1089
01:03:20,960 --> 01:03:24,800
Speaker 2: It's just so weird that like his movie after this

1090
01:03:25,320 --> 01:03:29,080
Speaker 2: is the first before movie. Yeah, I always guess it wrong.

1091
01:03:29,120 --> 01:03:33,040
Speaker 2: Before Sunrise, Before Sunrise, Yeah, which I guess it also

1092
01:03:33,080 --> 01:03:35,600
Speaker 2: should be reminded that he co wrote that movie with

1093
01:03:35,640 --> 01:03:39,160
Speaker 2: a woman, so it wasn't like he suddenly true he

1094
01:03:39,600 --> 01:03:44,000
Speaker 2: had a deep understanding of women in not in nineteen

1095
01:03:44,040 --> 01:03:46,200
Speaker 2: ninety three, but then suddenly did in nineteen ninety five.

1096
01:03:46,720 --> 01:03:49,720
Speaker 2: But still, yeah, I just this movie ends up. It's

1097
01:03:49,800 --> 01:03:53,760
Speaker 2: just I found it very frustrating because it's not trying

1098
01:03:53,880 --> 01:03:55,680
Speaker 2: to say very much.

1099
01:03:56,040 --> 01:03:56,320
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1100
01:03:56,760 --> 01:04:00,000
Speaker 5: For me, it's take an edible turn on this movie.

1101
01:04:00,680 --> 01:04:01,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, watch the.

1102
01:04:01,320 --> 01:04:02,480
Speaker 4: Pretty People Go By.

1103
01:04:02,960 --> 01:04:06,800
Speaker 5: It's a screensaver, Listen to some songs that are now

1104
01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:08,400
Speaker 5: classic rock, and.

1105
01:04:09,960 --> 01:04:11,680
Speaker 4: Have an okay night. Yeah.

1106
01:04:11,960 --> 01:04:16,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you're a nostalgic for the seventies, this is

1107
01:04:16,120 --> 01:04:17,000
Speaker 3: the movie for you.

1108
01:04:19,480 --> 01:04:23,280
Speaker 2: Then you're Richard Lakeletter and here's this.

1109
01:04:23,920 --> 01:04:25,200
Speaker 3: And here's this.

1110
01:04:26,480 --> 01:04:26,680
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1111
01:04:26,720 --> 01:04:29,760
Speaker 3: Does anyone have anything else they'd like to discuss?

1112
01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:33,960
Speaker 2: No, not a thought. It's so hard to develop a

1113
01:04:34,200 --> 01:04:37,760
Speaker 2: cochin thought about this movie because like, nothing really happens

1114
01:04:37,840 --> 01:04:39,240
Speaker 2: in the Yeah.

1115
01:04:39,320 --> 01:04:42,720
Speaker 3: Well, originally it was supposed to be a movie that

1116
01:04:42,840 --> 01:04:47,000
Speaker 3: took place entirely in a car. It was only going

1117
01:04:47,080 --> 01:04:51,000
Speaker 3: to be a couple shots, but like a full feature still,

1118
01:04:51,080 --> 01:04:55,040
Speaker 3: I think, And it was just gonna be characters driving

1119
01:04:55,080 --> 01:05:00,760
Speaker 3: around listening to an entire Zzy Top album, I think

1120
01:05:01,160 --> 01:05:04,320
Speaker 3: is what I read, right, And then link later was like, hmm,

1121
01:05:04,960 --> 01:05:08,360
Speaker 3: what if I expand this to represent other points of view?

1122
01:05:09,280 --> 01:05:12,680
Speaker 3: And by that I mean teen boys who are white,

1123
01:05:13,640 --> 01:05:16,440
Speaker 3: so it could have been whatever the Zezy Top thing was.

1124
01:05:17,800 --> 01:05:22,640
Speaker 3: But yeah, that's that's pretty much all I had. I

1125
01:05:22,680 --> 01:05:26,360
Speaker 3: feel like we were so efficient and I got the

1126
01:05:26,400 --> 01:05:28,640
Speaker 3: discussion out in record time with this one.

1127
01:05:28,760 --> 01:05:30,120
Speaker 2: I mean, I was like, I feel like, are we

1128
01:05:30,200 --> 01:05:32,840
Speaker 2: missing something I don't. There's not really a lot of

1129
01:05:33,080 --> 01:05:36,000
Speaker 2: Most of the behind the scenes stuff is kind of

1130
01:05:36,000 --> 01:05:41,120
Speaker 2: a bummer, yeah, but mostly anecdotal. The whichever characters. The

1131
01:05:41,200 --> 01:05:45,120
Speaker 2: characters who were getting paddled, their parents called Richard link

1132
01:05:45,200 --> 01:05:47,720
Speaker 2: later and they were like, you have to tell Ben

1133
01:05:47,760 --> 01:05:53,880
Speaker 2: Affleck to paddle soft dar on my son. Wow, Ben

1134
01:05:53,880 --> 01:05:57,800
Speaker 2: Affleck confirmed bully in real life. You have the stories

1135
01:05:57,840 --> 01:06:02,400
Speaker 2: about the like budget nightmare fuel of like, nope, we

1136
01:06:02,440 --> 01:06:05,640
Speaker 2: actually made teenage girls flop around in a hot parking

1137
01:06:05,720 --> 01:06:08,280
Speaker 2: lad in the sun and we forgot to give them sunscreen,

1138
01:06:09,440 --> 01:06:13,160
Speaker 2: very indie filmmaker horror story. And then you have I think,

1139
01:06:13,320 --> 01:06:17,840
Speaker 2: to me, the biggest bummer is just hearing from Parker

1140
01:06:17,880 --> 01:06:21,080
Speaker 2: Posey that there was a lot of stuff shot with

1141
01:06:21,120 --> 01:06:23,880
Speaker 2: their characters. Yeah, it just didn't end up in the movie.

1142
01:06:24,880 --> 01:06:28,240
Speaker 5: Can we talk about one moment with Parker Posey that, yes,

1143
01:06:28,680 --> 01:06:32,680
Speaker 5: I think is the most The only instance of women

1144
01:06:32,800 --> 01:06:38,760
Speaker 5: helping women in this film is Renee Zelweger was in

1145
01:06:38,800 --> 01:06:39,320
Speaker 5: this movie.

1146
01:06:39,400 --> 01:06:42,520
Speaker 2: Yes, what I didn't catch her, blink and you miss her.

1147
01:06:42,640 --> 01:06:48,120
Speaker 5: Renee zell Wigger was holding up the funnel wild Parker Posey, chuck.

1148
01:06:48,720 --> 01:06:50,480
Speaker 5: And that is women helping women.

1149
01:06:51,840 --> 01:06:55,680
Speaker 3: And that's that means this movie is a feminist masterpiece.

1150
01:06:56,080 --> 01:06:58,720
Speaker 2: It is two time oscar in our humble beginning.

1151
01:07:00,280 --> 01:07:02,600
Speaker 3: We all have to start somewhere. I guess you could

1152
01:07:02,600 --> 01:07:09,400
Speaker 3: make the argument that Jody, who befriends Sabrina, now, does

1153
01:07:09,440 --> 01:07:12,760
Speaker 3: that friendship really have any bearing on the story. Do

1154
01:07:12,800 --> 01:07:15,080
Speaker 3: we see that develop in any meaningful way? Do we

1155
01:07:15,160 --> 01:07:18,680
Speaker 3: really see them talk beyond like the one or two

1156
01:07:18,680 --> 01:07:22,280
Speaker 3: scenes they have together that are pretty quick. No, but

1157
01:07:22,560 --> 01:07:26,720
Speaker 3: she does say like, hey, little freshman girl, you're cute,

1158
01:07:27,000 --> 01:07:30,400
Speaker 3: so you should be haze And then also you're my

1159
01:07:30,440 --> 01:07:33,880
Speaker 3: friend now, so come to the party later. So maybe

1160
01:07:33,880 --> 01:07:35,120
Speaker 3: that's women helping women.

1161
01:07:36,120 --> 01:07:39,840
Speaker 2: And if so, I mean going back to your comment

1162
01:07:39,880 --> 01:07:42,640
Speaker 2: Caitlin about like this big kind of a history written

1163
01:07:42,680 --> 01:07:46,000
Speaker 2: by the victor's kind of vibe is there is this

1164
01:07:46,200 --> 01:07:50,720
Speaker 2: feeling and again, we weren't there for the seventies, so

1165
01:07:50,920 --> 01:07:55,400
Speaker 2: maybe it's true, but there is this feeling that like, oh,

1166
01:07:55,560 --> 01:07:58,360
Speaker 2: don't worry if you're being like it's almost feels like

1167
01:07:58,360 --> 01:08:00,439
Speaker 2: this kind of gaslighting of like if if the boy

1168
01:08:00,520 --> 01:08:03,520
Speaker 2: is mean to you, that means he likes you. That's

1169
01:08:03,560 --> 01:08:05,760
Speaker 2: how the bullies are treated in this movie. They're like

1170
01:08:06,040 --> 01:08:09,080
Speaker 2: the bullies. It's not treated like I think most bully

1171
01:08:09,160 --> 01:08:12,040
Speaker 2: characters are now, which is that they are fundamentally insecure

1172
01:08:12,720 --> 01:08:14,919
Speaker 2: and might have other stuff going on in their life

1173
01:08:14,920 --> 01:08:17,400
Speaker 2: that causes them to lash out at other kids like this.

1174
01:08:17,840 --> 01:08:21,040
Speaker 2: They're just like they probably like you. They just have

1175
01:08:21,120 --> 01:08:24,519
Speaker 2: to do this. It's their job. The city pays them

1176
01:08:24,640 --> 01:08:26,559
Speaker 2: to hit you with a paddle like and.

1177
01:08:26,479 --> 01:08:31,719
Speaker 5: That again reminds me more fraternities than any high school bully.

1178
01:08:32,439 --> 01:08:33,040
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1179
01:08:33,200 --> 01:08:35,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like high school bullying to me was

1180
01:08:36,280 --> 01:08:37,800
Speaker 2: it was a psychological game.

1181
01:08:39,080 --> 01:08:42,760
Speaker 3: It was like, you know, dumping a kid's books as

1182
01:08:42,800 --> 01:08:46,200
Speaker 3: they were walking down the hall sort of thing. But

1183
01:08:46,640 --> 01:08:49,519
Speaker 3: to that point, Jamie, there are a couple scenes where

1184
01:08:50,120 --> 01:08:54,559
Speaker 3: the older boys are talking to Mitch and giving advice

1185
01:08:54,680 --> 01:08:57,880
Speaker 3: on oh, here's how to handle women, and of course

1186
01:08:57,960 --> 01:09:01,800
Speaker 3: it's the worst advice you've ever heard, because things like, oh,

1187
01:09:01,920 --> 01:09:04,080
Speaker 3: you want her, well, you got to play it cool,

1188
01:09:04,160 --> 01:09:06,439
Speaker 3: and you can't let her know that you like her

1189
01:09:06,520 --> 01:09:09,760
Speaker 3: because if she knows, she'll dump you, which is, you know,

1190
01:09:09,840 --> 01:09:14,360
Speaker 3: basically telling a young teen to be really aloof and

1191
01:09:14,520 --> 01:09:20,280
Speaker 3: dismissive about girl's feelings. And then later when he has

1192
01:09:20,360 --> 01:09:26,080
Speaker 3: started to hang out with Julie, Mitch has the older

1193
01:09:26,120 --> 01:09:29,879
Speaker 3: boys are like, oh, you're gonna have sex with her tonight,

1194
01:09:30,600 --> 01:09:34,559
Speaker 3: in a way that is very like them encouraging Mitch

1195
01:09:34,680 --> 01:09:37,840
Speaker 3: to be predatory and be like, if you want it,

1196
01:09:38,120 --> 01:09:41,760
Speaker 3: take it, it's yours. You deserve it. Oh, you're like,

1197
01:09:42,680 --> 01:09:47,760
Speaker 3: it's just horrifying. Does the movie pass the Bechdel test? Though?

1198
01:09:48,160 --> 01:09:51,120
Speaker 2: I think technically it does, which is kind of hilarious.

1199
01:09:51,360 --> 01:09:55,040
Speaker 2: Really let me double check, because this we always forget

1200
01:09:55,080 --> 01:09:58,839
Speaker 2: to check this because ultimately it's not what the showsph

1201
01:09:58,840 --> 01:10:03,439
Speaker 2: it's deceptive. I do believe that there's a few sort

1202
01:10:03,479 --> 01:10:07,200
Speaker 2: of passes, but none of it's tricky to like identify

1203
01:10:07,240 --> 01:10:11,679
Speaker 2: what a meaningful conversation in this movie means, I don't

1204
01:10:11,680 --> 01:10:13,880
Speaker 2: know if it passes our version of the Bechtel test,

1205
01:10:13,920 --> 01:10:17,679
Speaker 2: where it has to be a meaningful exchange, right, yeah, okay,

1206
01:10:17,760 --> 01:10:20,360
Speaker 2: oh this is fun. On Bechdel Test dot com.

1207
01:10:20,080 --> 01:10:22,800
Speaker 3: Mm scholarly journal, frequent.

1208
01:10:22,439 --> 01:10:25,880
Speaker 2: Resource for this show, there is hot debate the page

1209
01:10:25,920 --> 01:10:29,439
Speaker 2: as it technically passes, but Caroline disagrees with this rating.

1210
01:10:29,960 --> 01:10:33,040
Speaker 2: I love Caroline. I think that certainly, even if there's

1211
01:10:33,120 --> 01:10:37,160
Speaker 2: like little two line exchanges that pass, spiritually it doesn't.

1212
01:10:37,360 --> 01:10:37,439
Speaker 6: NA.

1213
01:10:38,040 --> 01:10:42,880
Speaker 2: There's no like relationship between women in this movie that

1214
01:10:43,240 --> 01:10:47,400
Speaker 2: is meaningful, I would say. And there are relationships between men,

1215
01:10:47,479 --> 01:10:53,160
Speaker 2: including very toxic relationships, including like pretty positively framed relationships

1216
01:10:53,200 --> 01:10:57,479
Speaker 2: between bullies and their victims yep, as like meaningful young

1217
01:10:57,560 --> 01:10:59,599
Speaker 2: Like I'm not saying that this movie does a lot

1218
01:10:59,640 --> 01:11:02,599
Speaker 2: for men, and it also doesn't do anything for men,

1219
01:11:03,280 --> 01:11:08,439
Speaker 2: but like, yeah, with relationships between not men, name a

1220
01:11:08,560 --> 01:11:11,519
Speaker 2: dynamic where that like sticks with you, there just isn't one,

1221
01:11:11,960 --> 01:11:13,800
Speaker 2: So spiritually I say, no.

1222
01:11:13,880 --> 01:11:18,040
Speaker 3: Pest agree. And that brings us to our nipple scale,

1223
01:11:18,080 --> 01:11:20,360
Speaker 3: where we rate the movie on a scale of zero

1224
01:11:20,400 --> 01:11:24,759
Speaker 3: to five nipples, examining it through an intersectional feminist lens

1225
01:11:25,120 --> 01:11:28,719
Speaker 3: and based on everything we've talked about regarding the way

1226
01:11:29,920 --> 01:11:32,960
Speaker 3: the movie treats women in that it's not interested in

1227
01:11:33,000 --> 01:11:37,000
Speaker 3: them at all, the way women and girls are talked

1228
01:11:37,000 --> 01:11:42,000
Speaker 3: about by the characters they you know, mostly men, characters

1229
01:11:42,160 --> 01:11:50,320
Speaker 3: in a horribly dehumanizing and objectifying manner. The utter disinterest

1230
01:11:50,560 --> 01:11:56,400
Speaker 3: in the one character of color, all of that. Uh, honestly,

1231
01:11:56,880 --> 01:12:00,080
Speaker 3: I have to give this zero nipples. I don't. I

1232
01:12:00,080 --> 01:12:02,040
Speaker 3: don't think it deserves any more than that.

1233
01:12:02,760 --> 01:12:05,639
Speaker 2: The end, I kind of want to give it maybe

1234
01:12:05,720 --> 01:12:09,400
Speaker 2: a half nipple, because there were little things that I like,

1235
01:12:09,439 --> 01:12:14,760
Speaker 2: I felt promised in certain scenes and performances. Sure, but

1236
01:12:14,800 --> 01:12:19,880
Speaker 2: the half nipple goes more to the actors who created

1237
01:12:20,040 --> 01:12:23,600
Speaker 2: those moments versus the script or the direction.

1238
01:12:23,400 --> 01:12:26,280
Speaker 3: The Parker Posy of it all. For example, Yeah.

1239
01:12:26,160 --> 01:12:29,880
Speaker 2: I'm gonna give half nipple because Yeah, Parker Posey put

1240
01:12:30,040 --> 01:12:35,200
Speaker 2: her whole ass into that Parking Loss scene. She is amazing.

1241
01:12:35,360 --> 01:12:37,639
Speaker 2: I one of the other movies that I really I

1242
01:12:37,680 --> 01:12:39,280
Speaker 2: saw for the first time recently that I really want

1243
01:12:39,280 --> 01:12:43,719
Speaker 2: to cover his party girl Oh the best because luckily

1244
01:12:43,800 --> 01:12:46,599
Speaker 2: shortly after this, Parker Posy was allowed to fully Parker

1245
01:12:46,640 --> 01:12:50,519
Speaker 2: Posy and was like in the Indie Darling of the century.

1246
01:12:50,920 --> 01:12:53,840
Speaker 2: But yeah, I think like for moments like that. I

1247
01:12:53,920 --> 01:12:56,800
Speaker 2: really thought that, like Sabrina's performance was very like sweet

1248
01:12:56,840 --> 01:12:59,200
Speaker 2: and understated, and then she became an anti war activist.

1249
01:12:59,280 --> 01:13:02,080
Speaker 2: Hard to, hard to. I'm giving it a half nipple,

1250
01:13:02,080 --> 01:13:05,760
Speaker 2: and I'm just giving it to the girls. I'm just

1251
01:13:05,800 --> 01:13:06,759
Speaker 2: giving it to the girls.

1252
01:13:06,800 --> 01:13:08,880
Speaker 3: All those bitches and sluts.

1253
01:13:08,439 --> 01:13:10,960
Speaker 2: All those bitches and sluts can have a little slice

1254
01:13:11,000 --> 01:13:11,920
Speaker 2: of my half nipple.

1255
01:13:13,200 --> 01:13:14,000
Speaker 3: Marius, how about you.

1256
01:13:14,280 --> 01:13:19,080
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm going to go one nipple, partly because I

1257
01:13:19,160 --> 01:13:24,760
Speaker 6: don't want to betray child me who saw this and

1258
01:13:24,880 --> 01:13:29,479
Speaker 6: really enjoyed it fair, but also yeah, I think it

1259
01:13:29,520 --> 01:13:33,400
Speaker 6: all goes back to Renees Alwigger helping Parker posy funnel.

1260
01:13:34,400 --> 01:13:37,800
Speaker 4: There there's a little.

1261
01:13:37,560 --> 01:13:39,880
Speaker 3: Something there, feminist moment. Yeah.

1262
01:13:39,920 --> 01:13:43,880
Speaker 5: The intersectional part of it, no, not at all abysmal.

1263
01:13:44,400 --> 01:13:48,080
Speaker 2: No, there's no intersection. There's just section.

1264
01:13:48,280 --> 01:13:49,280
Speaker 4: There's just section there.

1265
01:13:49,880 --> 01:13:51,720
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1266
01:13:51,800 --> 01:13:58,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, and barely even any of that to one. Yes. Nice. Well, Maris,

1267
01:13:58,200 --> 01:14:01,320
Speaker 3: thank you so much for joining us in this discussion.

1268
01:14:02,479 --> 01:14:03,400
Speaker 4: This was so fun.

1269
01:14:03,560 --> 01:14:07,120
Speaker 3: Tell us where people can follow you on social media,

1270
01:14:07,520 --> 01:14:09,519
Speaker 3: where people can buy your book, etc.

1271
01:14:10,479 --> 01:14:16,240
Speaker 5: My book is available wherever books are sold, and you

1272
01:14:16,280 --> 01:14:18,880
Speaker 5: can find me at Mariscrisman dot com. That's where you

1273
01:14:18,920 --> 01:14:21,679
Speaker 5: can sign up from my newsletter called the Maris Review.

1274
01:14:22,320 --> 01:14:26,559
Speaker 5: And I'm also on Blue Sky at Maris And yeah,

1275
01:14:26,760 --> 01:14:28,120
Speaker 5: please buy my book.

1276
01:14:28,120 --> 01:14:33,160
Speaker 2: Kay, please do please, it's amazing great. Well, I think

1277
01:14:33,240 --> 01:14:37,960
Speaker 2: we thoroughly eviscerated this movie. So why don't we get

1278
01:14:37,960 --> 01:14:41,760
Speaker 2: into a beat up old car and go buy Aerosmith tickets?

1279
01:14:42,160 --> 01:14:49,679
Speaker 3: All right, all right, all right, bye bye. The Bechdel

1280
01:14:49,720 --> 01:14:53,320
Speaker 3: Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by Caitlin Derante

1281
01:14:53,320 --> 01:14:57,400
Speaker 3: and Jamie Loftus, produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited by Mola Board.

1282
01:14:57,880 --> 01:15:00,439
Speaker 3: Our theme song was composed by Mike capp Ln with

1283
01:15:00,560 --> 01:15:04,879
Speaker 3: vocals by Katherine Voskresenski. Our logo in merch is designed

1284
01:15:04,920 --> 01:15:08,480
Speaker 3: by Jamie Loftus and a special thanks to Aristotle Acevedo.

1285
01:15:09,120 --> 01:15:12,559
Speaker 3: For more information about the podcast, please visit linktree slash

1286
01:15:12,640 --> 01:15:13,320
Speaker 3: Bechdelcast