WEBVTT - Meta, Big Tech Make Political Shifts 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:09.520 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news from the heart of 0:00:09.600 --> 0:00:15.320 where innovation, money and power collide in Silicon Valley and beyond. 0:00:15.760 --> 0:00:20.560 This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlow. 0:00:34.520 --> 0:00:34.960 Good morning. 0:00:35.000 --> 0:00:39.320 I'm Tim Stenebeck and I'm Katie Grefeld Greifeld. It is Friday. 0:00:39.400 --> 0:00:42.600 We're both in New York City. Welcome to Bloomberg Technology. 0:00:42.800 --> 0:00:45.640 Coming up metas Nick Klegg steps down as president of 0:00:45.680 --> 0:00:48.800 Global Affairs and is replaced by a longtime exec with 0:00:48.920 --> 0:00:51.480 Republican ties ahead of Trump's second term. 0:00:51.640 --> 0:00:55.120 Plus TikTok in focus with a lumin ban later this month, 0:00:55.240 --> 0:00:56.480 will the Supreme Court. 0:00:56.280 --> 0:00:56.920 Save the day? 0:00:57.240 --> 0:01:00.560 And China flex is its lithium dominance by planning tougher 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:04.440 scrutiny on next sport so technology to make battery materials. 0:01:04.680 --> 0:01:07.360 All that and more over the next hour on Bloomberg Technology. 0:01:07.360 --> 0:01:11.520 First though, a check on the markets. Megamp tech right 0:01:11.560 --> 0:01:14.119 now driving stocks hire today. Look at that the NASZAQ 0:01:14.120 --> 0:01:17.880 one hundred doll a full percentage point eighty six stocks higher, 0:01:18.200 --> 0:01:22.720 led by Nvidia, Tesla, Amazon, Microsoft. On the downside, we 0:01:22.800 --> 0:01:25.560 got Apple lower again. We're going to be speaking with 0:01:25.680 --> 0:01:27.959 Ryan Vestelica in just a few minutes on the company's 0:01:27.959 --> 0:01:31.000 longest losing streak since November, down more than six percent 0:01:31.040 --> 0:01:33.440 from that post Christmas all time high. As far as 0:01:33.440 --> 0:01:36.119 the index go, the big question, Katie, can today's gains 0:01:36.120 --> 0:01:38.400 hold because we saw the same thing play out yesterday 0:01:38.800 --> 0:01:41.880 when stocks started out a little higher than closed lower. 0:01:42.000 --> 0:01:48.680 Absolutely, yesterday was actually the worst trading day of the year. Yeah, 0:01:48.920 --> 0:01:49.639 thank you for laughing. 0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:50.120 You got it. 0:01:50.160 --> 0:01:51.760 I got to check out on big quite higher by 0:01:51.880 --> 0:01:54.400 half a percentage point right now, arising for a fourth 0:01:54.480 --> 0:01:56.960 day in a row. Still investors pulling money from that 0:01:57.040 --> 0:02:00.520 ibit ETF three hundred and thirty three million dollars yesterday. 0:02:00.560 --> 0:02:02.640 That's according to data compiled by Bloomberg. 0:02:02.760 --> 0:02:04.960 I will say that was its worst outflow ever. But 0:02:05.040 --> 0:02:08.560 for a fifty billion dollar plus fund, it's amazing that 0:02:08.639 --> 0:02:11.160 only three hundred million dollar counts as a record outflow. 0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:12.959 But in any case, let's talk about. 0:02:12.720 --> 0:02:15.040 Some individual names here, and we have to talk about 0:02:15.080 --> 0:02:17.639 what's going on with Nvidia shares. You talk about big 0:02:17.720 --> 0:02:20.440 tech driving the day, it's in Nvidia that is driving. 0:02:20.440 --> 0:02:22.760 The index is higher right now, up about three and 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:26.120 a half percent. Not a huge move in the grand scheme. 0:02:26.160 --> 0:02:26.480 Of life. 0:02:26.520 --> 0:02:29.120 But that is your biggest points contributor to the S 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:31.760 and P five hundreds gain right now. Similar story if 0:02:31.800 --> 0:02:33.560 you take a look at the NASAQ one hundred. 0:02:33.639 --> 0:02:34.639 So that's some good news. 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:37.040 Let's talk about Apple though, because of course, Tim, you 0:02:37.160 --> 0:02:37.799 mentioned that in. 0:02:37.800 --> 0:02:39.960 Apple there's a lot of fears about China right now, 0:02:40.000 --> 0:02:40.160 and you. 0:02:40.160 --> 0:02:42.320 Can see that those fears if you take a look 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:45.240 at the five day chart right now, down six percent 0:02:45.360 --> 0:02:48.840 over the last five days. That is its longest such 0:02:48.840 --> 0:02:53.400 streak since April. So definitely a lot of concerns about Apple. 0:02:53.520 --> 0:02:57.239 Let's talk about them all now with Ryan Vlastelica joining 0:02:57.320 --> 0:03:00.960 us and Ryan when it comes to Apple and China fears, 0:03:01.000 --> 0:03:04.320 of course, remember Ruter's reported on Thursday that the company 0:03:04.360 --> 0:03:08.040 is offering discounted smartphones in China. It feels like this 0:03:08.120 --> 0:03:11.040 has been the baarcase for a while for this company. 0:03:12.120 --> 0:03:13.560 Yeah, good morning, thanks for having me. 0:03:13.600 --> 0:03:13.680 So. 0:03:13.720 --> 0:03:16.600 Yeah, China is a major market for Apple, no surprise 0:03:16.639 --> 0:03:19.320 about that. And the latest data on you know, monthly 0:03:19.400 --> 0:03:22.639 sales and shipments of iPhones in the country, you know. 0:03:22.600 --> 0:03:23.560 Have been sort of muted. 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:25.640 Is sort of just sort of the overall takeaway and 0:03:25.680 --> 0:03:28.919 given just the size of that market, given the importance 0:03:28.960 --> 0:03:31.200 of the iPhone sixteen, which is of course the first 0:03:31.200 --> 0:03:33.680 one to have AI features, the fact that that is 0:03:33.720 --> 0:03:36.040 being met with some you know, weak sales data out 0:03:36.040 --> 0:03:38.080 of China, that's a little bit of a cause for concern, 0:03:38.240 --> 0:03:40.840 especially when you're looking at a backdrop that could have 0:03:41.320 --> 0:03:45.560 elevated terraf risks, you know, slower growth potential and just 0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:48.280 whole you know, general list of concerns out there. So 0:03:48.280 --> 0:03:50.200 the fact that you're seeing weakness in China is certainly 0:03:50.200 --> 0:03:52.400 just a reason for people to start the year off 0:03:52.400 --> 0:03:54.840 on a little bit of a more cautious note, especially 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:57.640 given how strong it performed going into the you know, 0:03:57.680 --> 0:03:58.720 the end of twenty twenty four. 0:03:58.800 --> 0:04:01.000 I feel like this is how we started last year, Ryan, 0:04:01.040 --> 0:04:03.680 with all these concerns about China, and then Apple just 0:04:03.720 --> 0:04:05.280 you know, hit it out of the park, as it 0:04:05.320 --> 0:04:07.320 does seemingly all the time. 0:04:07.680 --> 0:04:10.360 What's going on here, Well, you certainly have plenty of 0:04:10.360 --> 0:04:12.360 reasons for people to be optimistic, because you do have 0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:16.000 this sort of long term story of AI entering the iPhone, 0:04:16.520 --> 0:04:19.760 you know, more applications being released with AI features. That's 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:21.400 something that's going to be playing out over the course 0:04:21.440 --> 0:04:23.440 of not only twenty twenty five, but you know, twenty 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:25.600 twenty six and twenty twenty seven, and it's likely we'll 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:28.120 start to see more upgrades over time. So that's something 0:04:28.120 --> 0:04:31.640 for people to be optimistic about. AI probably means higher 0:04:31.680 --> 0:04:34.640 services growth or maybe more cloud growth. There's all kinds 0:04:34.680 --> 0:04:36.400 of potential tail ones associated with it. 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:37.720 But just for the time. 0:04:37.600 --> 0:04:39.919 Being, given you have such a major market out there 0:04:40.080 --> 0:04:42.560 seeing a little bit of a shakiness, it's probably not surprising, 0:04:42.960 --> 0:04:45.840 you know, can as people continue to wonder about what 0:04:45.920 --> 0:04:47.800 is Apple's overall growth rate going to be? Is it 0:04:47.800 --> 0:04:49.880 going to be as strong at other names within big tech? 0:04:49.920 --> 0:04:53.320 How does evaluation look relative to other names within big tech? 0:04:53.560 --> 0:04:56.400 Just reasons maybe again for people maybe to be easing 0:04:56.440 --> 0:04:58.080 off a little bit in the first days of the year. 0:04:58.240 --> 0:05:01.200 Bloomberg's Ryan Bostelica, thanks so much. Appreciate it. 0:05:01.520 --> 0:05:04.279 For more on the broader tech market, Mark Mahaney, Evercore 0:05:04.320 --> 0:05:08.200 ISI Senior Managing director joins us now Mark good as 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:09.440 always to see you. 0:05:09.839 --> 0:05:11.560 Nazak one hundred last. 0:05:11.400 --> 0:05:14.440 Year, up by close to twenty five percent in twenty 0:05:14.440 --> 0:05:17.960 twenty three, high by more than fifty percent. The tech 0:05:17.960 --> 0:05:21.320 stocks that you follow still room to run higher in 0:05:21.360 --> 0:05:22.120 twenty twenty five. 0:05:24.560 --> 0:05:25.080 I think so. 0:05:25.200 --> 0:05:27.719 But look the setup here, as we were in a 0:05:27.960 --> 0:05:30.719 two and a half years into a major bull market. 0:05:32.040 --> 0:05:34.400 It started in the middle of twenty twenty two after 0:05:34.440 --> 0:05:38.640 we'd had this shock of this dramatic ramp in interest rates, 0:05:39.120 --> 0:05:41.200 and since then tech stocks have done really nothing but 0:05:41.680 --> 0:05:45.520 go up. At some point that'll fade, and I think 0:05:45.520 --> 0:05:47.280 it'll face start fading this year. I don't think you'll 0:05:47.279 --> 0:05:50.000 have the outperformance going into this year's you had the 0:05:50.040 --> 0:05:52.120 last two years. Maybe that's an easy statement to make. 0:05:52.279 --> 0:05:53.880 I look at the fundamentals of the group. I look 0:05:53.920 --> 0:05:56.600 at the Internet names, and I look at online retail, 0:05:56.800 --> 0:06:01.600 online travel, cloud computingising, and I think the growth rates 0:06:01.640 --> 0:06:04.240 there are relatively sustainable. All of the checks we had 0:06:04.279 --> 0:06:06.159 at the end of last year going in the beginning 0:06:06.200 --> 0:06:09.720 of this year have been relatively constructive. We also had 0:06:09.760 --> 0:06:13.000 record high margins, and I think those margins are largely 0:06:13.080 --> 0:06:15.159 sustainable because I think the sector as a whole is 0:06:15.240 --> 0:06:18.719 just being more judicious about headcount ads than they were 0:06:19.000 --> 0:06:20.920 in the past. And I do think the third factor 0:06:20.960 --> 0:06:22.760 here is this Ai jen Ai. I think it's a 0:06:22.760 --> 0:06:24.599 gift that keeps on is going to keep on giving 0:06:24.640 --> 0:06:27.960 for quite some time. It just leads to more efficient processes, 0:06:28.080 --> 0:06:30.719 better revenue streams, etc. So there's a couple of reasons 0:06:30.760 --> 0:06:34.640 to stay fundamentally constructive. I just there's very little dislocation. 0:06:34.760 --> 0:06:37.239 There's very little. Very few of the major tech stocks 0:06:37.240 --> 0:06:40.000 that I look at really look dislocated. The one that 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:42.039 I really like here that I think is is Uber. 0:06:42.560 --> 0:06:45.320 Well, talk to us about that because ubert it's so 0:06:45.600 --> 0:06:48.960 dominant compared to Lift, but the fact that it hasn't 0:06:48.960 --> 0:06:52.119 exactly kept up with some of the other Internet large 0:06:52.120 --> 0:06:54.480 cap names that you cover that have seen the really 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:59.000 dramatic multiple expansion. What is the bowl case for Uber 0:06:59.040 --> 0:06:59.559 going forward? 0:07:01.360 --> 0:07:03.000 Well, let me start with the barecases. 0:07:03.520 --> 0:07:05.320 You know, you did have a slow down in mobility 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:07.719 bookings that's their ride share business in the back half 0:07:07.800 --> 0:07:11.600 of last year of twenty four. And then there's really 0:07:11.600 --> 0:07:14.560 the concern over robotaxis and whether they'll obviate the need 0:07:14.600 --> 0:07:17.239 to ever have ride sharing networks in the future. 0:07:17.960 --> 0:07:19.520 I mean, it's possible that that happens. 0:07:19.760 --> 0:07:21.600 I'm taking the other side on that, But those are 0:07:21.640 --> 0:07:23.480 the two factors that have cost the stock to correct 0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:26.680 from like mid eighties down to sixty sixty dollars, a 0:07:26.680 --> 0:07:29.000 pretty material correction. The stocks I look at is the 0:07:29.000 --> 0:07:31.040 only one that's really materially corrected. But I think that 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:34.239 creates the opportunity because I think as the largest demand 0:07:34.320 --> 0:07:38.400 aggregator out there, I think that robotaxis will find a 0:07:38.440 --> 0:07:41.080 place on ubers network. We got two cities Austin in 0:07:41.160 --> 0:07:45.160 Atlanta where we're going to see Weimo robotaxis on ubers network. 0:07:45.200 --> 0:07:47.080 And my guess is that you know, I'm a big 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:50.600 fan of robotaxis here and of Weimo here in San Francisco, 0:07:51.000 --> 0:07:52.800 and I think you're going to see more competition in 0:07:52.840 --> 0:07:54.960 that space in the future, and I think you'll see 0:07:55.000 --> 0:07:57.960 more of those cars on Uber's network. And evidence that 0:07:58.000 --> 0:08:00.040 they will be on Uber's network is the catalyst on 0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:00.560 the shares. 0:08:00.800 --> 0:08:01.000 Well. 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:02.520 I've never been in a way though, but I'll be 0:08:02.560 --> 0:08:03.840 in sanfor in about two weeks. 0:08:03.840 --> 0:08:05.800 Should do it. It's awesome. Yeah, it's so cool. 0:08:05.880 --> 0:08:09.239 I have a real fear of my own mortality, so well, 0:08:09.240 --> 0:08:11.120 we'll put a pin in that. But in any case, Mark, 0:08:11.120 --> 0:08:12.680 I'm taking a look at your notes. 0:08:13.160 --> 0:08:13.920 You mentioned. 0:08:13.960 --> 0:08:17.280 Of course those dislocated high quality stocks. Uber is among them, 0:08:17.640 --> 0:08:20.800 so is ARABNB so is Alphabet, And that caught my 0:08:20.840 --> 0:08:23.559 attention because Alphabet is in a bit of a different 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:27.240 league than the airbnbs and the ubers of this market. 0:08:28.680 --> 0:08:32.040 Well Google, I would say that Google at one sixty 0:08:32.120 --> 0:08:34.800 was dislocated a one ninety. I'm not sure it is, 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:38.360 but we've got some events coming up. There's two particular 0:08:38.400 --> 0:08:40.240 of this is all getting out of fundamentals. This is 0:08:40.280 --> 0:08:44.440 all regulatory. First is the DOJ's anti trust case against 0:08:44.640 --> 0:08:47.320 Google and Google asst this in terms of its search business. 0:08:47.440 --> 0:08:49.640 We're not going to get really great visibility into this 0:08:49.760 --> 0:08:52.720 until August unless there's some sort of settlements, and I 0:08:52.720 --> 0:08:57.040 think the chances of the settlements went up when we 0:08:57.080 --> 0:09:01.480 had the US electoral results. Well, you know, that's a 0:09:01.600 --> 0:09:04.199 very hard thing to handicap. But that's one factor out there. 0:09:04.400 --> 0:09:06.520 And then the other one is the TikTok ban, and 0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:09.720 you know we're days away from this band going into effect. 0:09:09.720 --> 0:09:09.840 Now. 0:09:09.840 --> 0:09:12.600 It's possible to get stayed. There is a provision in 0:09:12.640 --> 0:09:15.920 the law for that. It's possible to get stayed. And 0:09:15.960 --> 0:09:19.320 it's possible that there's some sort of force sale or 0:09:19.880 --> 0:09:22.920 a sale of TikTok. But if there is a TikTok ban, 0:09:23.000 --> 0:09:25.000 and I think the market is really heavily discounting this 0:09:25.160 --> 0:09:27.560 by more than they probably should. If there is a 0:09:27.679 --> 0:09:30.440 banning of TikTok, I think the beneficiaries of this are 0:09:30.480 --> 0:09:33.679 going to be Google YouTube YouTube shorts okay, and reels 0:09:34.320 --> 0:09:34.800 at meta. 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:37.920 Who's the bigger beneficiary if the band goes into effecting 0:09:38.200 --> 0:09:42.280 meta platforms because of what's going on with Instagram and reels? 0:09:42.880 --> 0:09:43.440 Yeah, I think so. 0:09:43.520 --> 0:09:46.400 I mean, just you know, users, if you really can't, 0:09:46.480 --> 0:09:48.920 if I can't really use TikTok like you're gonna there's 0:09:48.960 --> 0:09:52.680 a wonderful value proposition to TikTok, and so people will 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:55.720 look for other short form video places. Reels is kind 0:09:55.760 --> 0:09:57.920 of the topless, but those YouTube shorts, so just meta 0:09:57.960 --> 0:09:59.400 by hair over Google. 0:09:59.440 --> 0:10:00.800 But they both are beneficiaries. 0:10:00.880 --> 0:10:04.280 And then advertisers have got these ad format's nailed, They've 0:10:04.320 --> 0:10:05.160 got them locked in. 0:10:05.559 --> 0:10:07.280 They can't put them on TikTok. They're going to have 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:07.920 to find other. 0:10:07.760 --> 0:10:11.040 Places, and the two obvious places are Google and Meta. 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:13.600 What's the percentage chance mark that you think this ban 0:10:13.720 --> 0:10:16.520 actually goes through with TikTok, I don't know. 0:10:17.559 --> 0:10:20.000 I guess it's still a minority chance, So you know, 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:22.160 I don't think it's a probability. It's less than fifty 0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:24.720 percent chance. Maybe it's twenty twenty five percent. I'm just 0:10:24.720 --> 0:10:26.920 struck by talking with investors as a belief that there's 0:10:26.960 --> 0:10:29.400 single digital percent chance that it goes through. But it 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:30.760 is the law of the land, and this is not 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:33.920 a First Amendment issue. I know this First Amendment aspects 0:10:33.960 --> 0:10:36.680 to it. It's really national security, and this was this 0:10:36.800 --> 0:10:41.280 was a pretty broad bipartisan congressional law that went into effect. 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:44.360 I mean that was pretty well voted on by both 0:10:44.360 --> 0:10:47.280 Democrats and Republicans, and so you know, this is the 0:10:47.360 --> 0:10:49.120 law of the land that's going to go into effect. 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:52.160 It, but who knows what happens in the next couple 0:10:52.200 --> 0:10:56.360 of weeks. So I'm a little baffled by this. 0:10:56.480 --> 0:10:58.600 But anyway, that's the law of land, and if it 0:10:58.600 --> 0:11:01.120 does go into effect, it you know there's a clear 0:11:01.200 --> 0:11:03.880 positive catalyst for both Google and Meta. 0:11:03.960 --> 0:11:06.600 Yeah, it'll be fascinating to see how that actually shakes out. 0:11:06.640 --> 0:11:08.760 But Mark, before we let you go, when it comes 0:11:08.800 --> 0:11:12.000 to TikTok and potential beneficiaries of a band, we were 0:11:12.000 --> 0:11:14.000 actually talking about this in one of our morning meetings, 0:11:14.000 --> 0:11:16.640 that you take a look at the content on reels, 0:11:16.679 --> 0:11:20.679 for example, A lot of it is recycled content from TikTok. 0:11:20.840 --> 0:11:24.440 So how urgent of a question is it for Meta 0:11:24.440 --> 0:11:28.120 to actually attract the creators onto their own platform. 0:11:28.640 --> 0:11:31.280 Oh, it's critical for them to do that. I mean 0:11:31.320 --> 0:11:33.680 whether or not there's a TikTok ban. I just think 0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:35.719 if there's a TikTok ban, those creators are going to 0:11:35.760 --> 0:11:39.440 be forced to take their audiences and build them somewhere else. 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:43.040 And I'd be surprised if major TikTok A lot of 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:46.800 TikTok creators. I think you are somewhat diversified anyway. I 0:11:46.800 --> 0:11:48.560 know there's some that aren't, but I think there's a 0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:50.320 good number that are so anyway. 0:11:50.400 --> 0:11:53.920 Yeah, this has always been the drive of Meta is. 0:11:53.880 --> 0:11:58.400 To attract more more short form video content and talent 0:11:58.559 --> 0:11:59.880 over to its network. 0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:01.040 I think they'll be able to do that. 0:12:01.040 --> 0:12:02.840 They've been pretty successful at doing it in a lot 0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:03.679 of different areas. 0:12:04.120 --> 0:12:04.360 Yeah. 0:12:04.440 --> 0:12:06.840 Well, Mark, great point to leave it on. Really appreciate 0:12:06.880 --> 0:12:09.280 the time that is. Mark Behiney of Evercore isi A. 0:12:09.240 --> 0:12:11.160 You're gonna be okay if TikTok ats man, I'm. 0:12:11.000 --> 0:12:13.720 Going to be pretty sad. I spent about three hours 0:12:13.760 --> 0:12:15.760 there a day, So I mean, maybe it'll be good. 0:12:15.679 --> 0:12:22.920 For me, Katie to real's it'll be that'll be huge. 0:12:26.960 --> 0:12:29.839 Bomtas Nick Clegg is stepping down from his role as 0:12:30.000 --> 0:12:33.240 president of Global Affairs and will be replaced by Joel Kaplan. 0:12:33.320 --> 0:12:36.679 He is a longtime executive with Republican ties. Now this 0:12:36.760 --> 0:12:39.040 move marks a shift by the social media giant, so 0:12:39.080 --> 0:12:42.160 it prepares for a second Trump presidency. For more, We're 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:45.360 joined now by Bloomberg's Kurt Wagner, and of course Clegg 0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:48.679 said of Kaplan that he was clearly the right person 0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:50.920 for the right job at the right time. 0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:52.280 Kurt tell us, why. 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:55.640 Yeah, Well, as you mentioned, Katie, this is a transition 0:12:55.840 --> 0:12:59.240 into you know, Trump's second term, and this is someone 0:12:59.280 --> 0:13:04.559 who is you know, Joel Kaplan being someone with Republican ties, 0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:06.760 with a lot of history with the Republican Party. 0:13:07.440 --> 0:13:08.520 You know, works for George W. 0:13:08.600 --> 0:13:12.040 Bush's administration way back in the day. So someone who 0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:15.800 I think can maybe speak that language better than Nick Clegg, 0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:19.280 who you know, came over from the UK. I do 0:13:19.360 --> 0:13:22.520 think that this sort of signals, you know, that Meta 0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:26.600 certainly sees the most important relationships right now being domestic right, 0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:29.679 and not necessarily what's going on in Europe where there's 0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:32.080 a ton of regulatory issues, which is something I think 0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:34.000 Nick Clegg was very well positioned to handle. 0:13:34.440 --> 0:13:37.920 Kurt Joel Kaplan may be somebody with Republican Party ties, 0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:40.560 but the Republican Party that he was part. 0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:41.280 Of the George W. 0:13:41.320 --> 0:13:44.480 Bush administration, for example, is a far cry from Donald 0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:47.440 Trump's Republican Party, and in fact, many of the folks 0:13:47.480 --> 0:13:50.640 in the Republican Party now criticize that administration. And I'm 0:13:50.640 --> 0:13:52.960 wondering if you think there's going to be any tension there, 0:13:52.960 --> 0:13:55.040 If there is any tension there, if it still represents 0:13:55.080 --> 0:14:00.319 a disconnect between meta platforms and the Republican Party of today, yehossibly. 0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:02.880 But this is what every big tech company is going 0:14:02.920 --> 0:14:04.760 to be dealing with, right, which is that the more 0:14:04.760 --> 0:14:07.880 traditional folks that they have in their policy divisions might 0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:12.680 not necessarily be the Maga Trump candidate party that we're 0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:15.120 starting to see really emergent take off. 0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:15.720 Now. 0:14:15.760 --> 0:14:18.600 It's closer, right, Joel Kaplan is going to be closer 0:14:19.200 --> 0:14:21.440 in alignment with those types of issues, I think than 0:14:21.440 --> 0:14:23.640 maybe someone like Nick Klegg. So maybe that helps, But 0:14:23.680 --> 0:14:26.520 I think the key here is really Mark Zuckerberg's role. 0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:29.560 Right For the last four years, he has been saying, Hey, 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:31.680 I want to be hands off. This is this policy 0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:34.080 stuff is not for me. I want to focus on product. 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:36.080 I want to focus on the business. But now we 0:14:36.120 --> 0:14:37.640 see him show up in mar A Lago, we see 0:14:37.680 --> 0:14:41.040 him calling Donald Trump personally, and I think that Mark 0:14:41.160 --> 0:14:44.560 Zuckerberg will likely handle the line's share of the relationship 0:14:44.800 --> 0:14:47.720 with Donald Trump himself, and then you let Joel Kaplan 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:49.840 sort of deal with all of this stuff on Capitol 0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:52.640 Hill where he is very well connected. It's just given 0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:55.000 all the years that he's been working in this industry. 0:14:55.120 --> 0:14:58.160 Bloomberg's Ker Wagner joining us this morning. Thanks so much, Kurt, 0:14:58.160 --> 0:14:58.960 do appreciate it. 0:14:59.160 --> 0:15:01.280 Well, It's not just Metta that is preparing for Trump's 0:15:01.240 --> 0:15:04.040 second administration. Other big tech leaders have met with the 0:15:04.120 --> 0:15:07.080 President elect, including the likes of Jeff Bezos, Sunder Pachai, 0:15:07.120 --> 0:15:09.600 and Tim Cook, all ahead of his return to the 0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:12.240 White House. For more on the future of Silicon Valley's 0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:16.000 relationship with Trump. Adam Kavakovich is a Chamber of Progress 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:19.240 CEO and he joins us now. Adam, how would you 0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:24.600 describe the relationship between technology and the incoming Trump administration, 0:15:24.640 --> 0:15:27.160 because a lot has changed over the last four years, 0:15:27.600 --> 0:15:31.360 especially with the rhetoric out of Silicon Valley more pro Trump, 0:15:31.400 --> 0:15:32.960 I think now than it ever has been. 0:15:34.280 --> 0:15:36.280 Yeah, I think you have to factor in two things. One, 0:15:36.280 --> 0:15:38.840 there's a lot of unhappiness in the tech industry with 0:15:38.960 --> 0:15:43.080 how the Biden administration has targeted tech and seen tech 0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:46.280 more as an industry to trash rather than than an 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:49.040 industry to champion. And so frankly, I think there's a 0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:53.080 lot of frustration from people in Silicon Valley who are 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:57.320 not necessarily Trump supporters or even right leaning, but there's 0:15:57.360 --> 0:15:59.960 been a lot of frustration that the administration hasn't champion 0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:03.400 in basically, you know, us the country's biggest export, So 0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:06.920 that's number one. Number Two, everyone has the benefit of 0:16:06.960 --> 0:16:10.840 having learned from the first Trump term in terms of 0:16:10.880 --> 0:16:13.120 what worked and what didn't. In terms of how to 0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:16.160 deal with president and work with him. I think a 0:16:16.160 --> 0:16:20.120 lot of tech CEOs look to Tim Cook for this 0:16:20.200 --> 0:16:24.160 as the CEO who probably managed the first Trump administration 0:16:24.280 --> 0:16:26.480 the best, and a lot of that, frankly, came down 0:16:26.480 --> 0:16:31.320 to direct contact between the CEO and Trump himself. As 0:16:31.400 --> 0:16:35.480 you said, that's not something that can be easily designated 0:16:35.520 --> 0:16:39.520 to a deputy. Trump really cares about meeting with the CEO, 0:16:39.640 --> 0:16:41.640 and in fact, that kind of meeting often works that 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:43.520 succeeds with him. So I think that's what a lot 0:16:43.520 --> 0:16:45.760 of companies are meeting with. 0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:48.960 Let's go to what Trump himself has said. Of course, 0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:53.520 this is a post on social media in late December. 0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:56.560 Big tech has run wild for years, stifling competition in 0:16:56.600 --> 0:16:59.200 our most innovative sector, and as we all know, using 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:01.840 its market power to crack down on the rights of 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:05.080 so many Americans, as well as those of little tech. 0:17:05.160 --> 0:17:07.160 Which is not a phrase that I've heard before. 0:17:07.320 --> 0:17:10.000 But reading maybe truth social is a little tech. 0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:10.600 That's true. 0:17:10.720 --> 0:17:13.399 Maybe he's talking his book there, but reading between the lines, 0:17:13.440 --> 0:17:16.520 it seems like that would suggest that this anti trust 0:17:16.640 --> 0:17:18.960 pressure that has been on these big tech names is 0:17:19.000 --> 0:17:20.200 going to continue. 0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:20.560 Oh. 0:17:20.600 --> 0:17:22.040 I don't think there's any doubt about that. 0:17:22.119 --> 0:17:24.840 The fact is, you know, the Biden administration has been 0:17:24.840 --> 0:17:28.000 prosecuting anti trust cases against all of the big tech companies. 0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:30.520 Some of those started under Trump's first term. I don't 0:17:30.520 --> 0:17:32.320 expect any of that to go away. But I will 0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:35.280 say I don't think Trump particularly cares about antitrust as 0:17:35.320 --> 0:17:37.760 an issue. What I think he really cares about is 0:17:37.840 --> 0:17:39.280 are these companies. 0:17:38.920 --> 0:17:41.720 Nice to him? And I think he's views anti. 0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:45.840 Trust lawsuits as leverage, and so I don't think you'll 0:17:45.840 --> 0:17:48.680 see a lot of settlements, even though you know they'll 0:17:48.680 --> 0:17:50.480 be sort of right leaning people may not agree with 0:17:50.480 --> 0:17:53.080 the substance of the suit. I think you will see 0:17:53.080 --> 0:17:56.840 the Trump administration enforceers keep these suits going because they 0:17:56.840 --> 0:18:00.440 are leverage over the companies over things like content atoation 0:18:00.520 --> 0:18:00.960 and speech. 0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:03.119 But I do think there's a real interesting question here, 0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:04.720 which is this little tech question. 0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:05.400 You said right. 0:18:06.000 --> 0:18:09.800 The Biden administration has had a chill over mergers and acquisitions, 0:18:09.840 --> 0:18:13.320 and that's been intentional. That's part of their approach to 0:18:13.480 --> 0:18:17.680 tech m and A and but little tech companies benefit 0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:21.000 when big tech companies are able to acquire them. In fact, 0:18:21.040 --> 0:18:25.120 many companies startups want the ability to be acquired as 0:18:25.160 --> 0:18:26.000 an exit path. 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:27.560 And so this is going to be. 0:18:27.480 --> 0:18:31.400 A real test for the Trump administration. Does little tech 0:18:31.480 --> 0:18:33.560 do do they or do they not want big tech 0:18:33.600 --> 0:18:36.520 to be free to acquire small companies. Again, I think 0:18:36.560 --> 0:18:39.240 that's going to be a big tension within their administration's 0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:40.960