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Speaker 1: Trust me.

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Speaker 2: Trust me.

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Speaker 3: I'm like a squat for hers.

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Speaker 2: I've never lied to you.

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Speaker 1: If you think.

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Speaker 4: That one person has all the answers, don't welcome to

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Speaker 4: trust me.

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Speaker 5: The podcast about cult's extreme belief and the abusive power

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Speaker 5: from two gentiles who've actually experienced it.

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Speaker 4: I am Lola.

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Speaker 5: Blanc and I'm Megan Elizabeth and today our guest is comedian, writer,

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Speaker 5: actor and director Avi tall Ash, friend of the show.

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Speaker 5: Avi Tahl is going to talk to us about being

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Speaker 5: raised Orthodox Jewish. She's going to tell us about some

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Speaker 5: of the many rules she grew up with, what she

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Speaker 5: did and didn't believe, and how her upbringing affected the

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Speaker 5: way she sees the world now and the way she

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Speaker 5: feels about herself as a woman.

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Speaker 3: We're also going to talk generally about ritual wrestling with God,

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Speaker 3: cherry picking rules from childhood, the function of magical thinking,

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Speaker 3: and a lot more gentile.

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Speaker 5: We're gentiles, right, It doesn't mean Christian, it just means

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Speaker 5: not Jewish.

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Speaker 4: Did I do that right?

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Speaker 1: I believe so?

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Speaker 3: Yes, I think we are. We are indeed gentiles. That's

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Speaker 3: so cool.

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Speaker 1: We have official name. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I feel like I've never really had any culture, but

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Speaker 3: this is exciting.

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Speaker 1: Gentiles. Cool, thank you, Lola.

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Speaker 4: Sure, yeah, that's what I'm here.

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Speaker 2: Poor.

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Speaker 4: Well, hey, so.

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Speaker 5: Very curious because you went home this past week, so

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Speaker 5: please tell me what the culty thing that's happened to

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Speaker 5: you in this past week was.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's kind of hard to choose when you

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Speaker 3: put it like that, but I was home, so you know,

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Speaker 3: a lot to explore there. But also, my brother in

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Speaker 3: law is in the Air Force, and I very much

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Speaker 3: appreciate our troops come from Kansas, where a lot of

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Speaker 3: people I know are in the military, and I love it.

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Speaker 3: But very culty, very very culty, and just the way

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Speaker 3: I mean, this is so obvious, but the ways in

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Speaker 3: which you break someone down to get them to do

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Speaker 3: whatever you need them to do is so fascinating. And

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Speaker 3: I think that in the Air Force or the Army

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Speaker 3: in particular, we see it a lot more physically. Usually

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Speaker 3: we're talking about things that are I think more mental

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Speaker 3: and emotional.

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Speaker 1: So it was just interesting to.

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Speaker 3: Talk to him about the stuff he goes through in

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Speaker 3: the Air Force.

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Speaker 1: It was fascinating.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, well, can you give an example.

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Speaker 3: Before they do some really big tests, they have to

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Speaker 3: stay up for four days.

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Speaker 1: It was something so ridiculous, like oh wow, absolutely.

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Speaker 3: Crazy, and I'm butchering it. That's not the exact thing,

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Speaker 3: but it was something like.

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Speaker 1: That, and then just talking about what they had to.

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Speaker 3: Eat, even if they it was just a really interesting

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Speaker 3: way that I can see people losing themselves one.

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Speaker 4: Hund Yeah, that's a really good point.

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Speaker 5: It is actual, like system attic brainwashing by the government

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Speaker 5: to produce war machines, to make humans into war machines.

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Speaker 5: So it makes total sense, like they literally do need

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Speaker 5: to break down their identity and then like forge a

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Speaker 5: new identity that is totally devoted to defending what they've

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Speaker 5: been hired by.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: I also have a lot of military family. My dad

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Speaker 5: was in the Army when I was growing up, lots

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Speaker 5: of military.

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Speaker 4: Cousins and stuff.

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Speaker 5: So it's definitely not hating on anyone who's in the military,

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Speaker 5: but it certainly is a very culty type of organization

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Speaker 5: in many many ways.

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Speaker 3: It's not something that the government of any country even

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Speaker 3: tries to hia. It's just like, hey, we need to

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Speaker 3: brainwash you now so you can do this stuff. So

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Speaker 3: what's the cultiest thing that happened to you this week?

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Speaker 1: Lola?

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Speaker 5: I actually feel like I don't have a good one,

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Speaker 5: so I'm just gonna go with the obvious one here,

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Speaker 5: which is the Oscars.

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Speaker 1: Ah.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I was talking to my friend Danen, who you know,

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Speaker 5: about them because she grew up in Germany and she

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Speaker 5: the Oscars were really not a part of her childhood

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Speaker 5: at all. She didn't This is the first time she

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Speaker 5: actually watched them ever, was last night with me, And

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Speaker 5: that was shocking to me because growing up, it was

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Speaker 5: like all you wanted was to be a part of

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Speaker 5: the Oscars or the Grammys or the Emmys, like that

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Speaker 5: was the most the height of glamour, the height of achievement,

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Speaker 5: the absolute thing that everyone who was in entertainment obviously

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Speaker 5: aspired to and they liked mean nothing to her.

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Speaker 4: And meanwhile, I'm like, I want an Oscar so badly.

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Speaker 5: So I'm so in the Oscar cult. Of course, my

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Speaker 5: ex boyfriend was nominated last night, but he lost, so

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Speaker 5: ye oh that's something no very talented. But yeah, I

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Speaker 5: want to be up there, man. It like it feels

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Speaker 5: like a thing that everyone should want. It feels like

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Speaker 5: the north star of my whole life is like, eventually

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Speaker 5: I will win this thing and then I'll be okay

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Speaker 5: and then I'll be happy.

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Speaker 2: Little do I know?

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Speaker 4: Of course, though I.

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Speaker 5: Logically know it that if I were to win one,

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Speaker 5: I would still just be myself the next day and

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Speaker 5: then have to live with having achieved the thing I've

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Speaker 5: been striving for or.

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Speaker 4: Forever, and then it's all downhill from there.

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Speaker 3: I read some I don't know interview from Anthony Hopkins,

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Speaker 3: who I guess won last night as well. I didn't

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Speaker 3: watch them, but it was from when he won a

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Speaker 3: million years ago, and he said the day after was

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Speaker 3: the saddest day of his life.

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Speaker 4: Oh, I hear that all the time.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, he realized it wasn't gonna fix anything.

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Speaker 4: Oh my god, I know, and I know that too.

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Speaker 4: I know that intellectually, like.

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Speaker 3: Who cares intellectually means nothing compared to our unconscious like

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Speaker 3: baby brain, who is like not true it?

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Speaker 5: Well, obviously, like the next day we'll be would be

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Speaker 5: the most surpressing day ever.

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Speaker 4: So maybe it's better that we don't win.

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Speaker 5: In fact, I'm gonna celebrate not having an oscar because.

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Speaker 4: Congratulations, thank you so much.

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Speaker 5: I'm so proud of myself for continuing to have something

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Speaker 5: to strive for, because that's great. But for real Chadwick

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Speaker 5: Boseman not winning that Oscar was very weird.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's strange.

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Speaker 5: Like it was so obvious everybody thought it was going

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Speaker 5: to be him. The I think his category was even last.

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Speaker 4: Was his category last? And then it was just went

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Speaker 4: to Anthony Hopkins who wasn't even there.

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Speaker 1: It's very that is so disappointing.

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Speaker 5: I know, what the are they thinking academy, Like, obviously

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Speaker 5: it's Chadwick Boseman, like what are you doing? And you

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Speaker 5: and then yeah, for him to not even be there

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Speaker 5: to accept the award. Anthony Hopkins was so anti climactic

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Speaker 5: and deflating.

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Speaker 4: It's not about the fucking oscars.

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Speaker 1: Jesus, shut up.

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Speaker 4: Let's talk about cults.

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Speaker 5: We're not talking about cults. We're talking about Orthodox Judaism. Yes,

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Speaker 5: so let's talk to Avitah. And by the way, I'm

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Speaker 5: going to shut this out. I know she says that

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Speaker 5: at the end, but I'm going to say it again

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Speaker 5: so you all remember she has a new show out

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Speaker 5: called Antisocial Distance Antisocial Distance dot Com.

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Speaker 4: All right, let's talk to Avita. Are you ready? Yes, okay,

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Speaker 4: let's do it. Welcome Avitah Ash, one of my bestest

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Speaker 4: friends in the whole world.

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 4: She's dancing everyone.

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Speaker 2: With my head because that's all you can see.

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Speaker 4: I assume your feet as well.

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 4: I can't see them.

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Speaker 2: Oh they're sort of tucked under me, so they're like

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Speaker 2: my knees are more dancing on my feet.

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Speaker 4: Oh that's fun.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm so happy to be here. It's also very

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Speaker 2: cool to be on a podcast that I genuinely think

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Speaker 2: is so well done.

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Speaker 4: So, oh, thank you so much.

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Speaker 2: You guys are so good and you're such a compelling duo.

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Speaker 2: And I like you both very individual, very much individually,

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Speaker 2: but I'm not I hate you guys together. You're together,

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Speaker 2: So now I get to exp firsthand.

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Speaker 4: Oh, thank you so much.

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Speaker 5: Well, Tall, I have known you for how long are

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Speaker 5: we at now?

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Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, twelve? Eleven, twelve?

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Speaker 2: Yes, fourteen? Is that not true.

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Speaker 5: There's no way that can be true. It doesn't matter.

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Speaker 5: This is so boring for everyone. But we've known each

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Speaker 5: other for a long time. And when I met you,

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Speaker 5: you were not turning on or off.

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Speaker 4: I guess the lights on Saturdays that you're not Yeah,

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Speaker 4: you were not driving what yeah?

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Speaker 2: For twenty five hour period. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Oh, it's twenty five. That's interesting.

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Speaker 2: It starts at like sundown and ends an hour after sunset,

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Speaker 2: when there's three stars in the sky it's over.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 4: That's fun.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, So I had never met anyone who was practicing

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Speaker 5: anything like that. Now, obviously you're not quite so strict

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Speaker 5: in your practices, but.

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Speaker 4: We'd love to hear all about your childhood.

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Speaker 2: Happy to share. I was telling you guys how I

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Speaker 2: was kind of asking my brothers what they think the

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Speaker 2: cultiest part of our upbringing was. And it is interesting,

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Speaker 2: you know, compared to regular people, my upbringing was very strict,

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Speaker 2: but like within that community, there's so many stricter versions,

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Speaker 2: and so some of the cultist stuff was not my experience,

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Speaker 2: but things that you knew about happening in the community.

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Speaker 2: I feel like I should give a disclaimer up top too,

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Speaker 2: that like Judaism is comprised of so many different sects

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Speaker 2: that even within Orthodox Judaism there's so many like different

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Speaker 2: And there's this idea that custom becomes like paramount to laws.

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Speaker 2: So there are certain things that are like customs, but

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Speaker 2: then they become like also strict rules that you have

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Speaker 2: to here too.

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Speaker 1: God, I hate that. I hate that. It's so unfair, right.

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Speaker 2: Right, Like, well, so for Passover, like I'm not allowed

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Speaker 2: to eat rice, but my best friend growing up because

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Speaker 2: she's Sephardic, So that's like just a different that's just

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Speaker 2: like regional, like Ashkenazi Jews don't have rice on Passover,

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Speaker 2: but Sephardic Jews can. So like in advance of getting

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Speaker 2: a bunch of hate from people being like she's wrong,

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Speaker 2: it's like it it really varies. I will say, I

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Speaker 2: think this is like good to set the stage that

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Speaker 2: I did. I did some jokes about growing up Orthodox,

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Speaker 2: and I had one a time about how sexist it is.

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Speaker 2: And I had one where I talk about how like

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Speaker 2: if a man raped a woman, his punishment for raping

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Speaker 2: her is that he'd have to marry her. And there

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Speaker 2: were so many comments being like she's lying, she's lying deliberately,

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Speaker 2: that's not true, Like the law says he has to

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Speaker 2: marry her if she wants. And I'm like, yeah, I

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Speaker 2: wasn't saying so, so I feel like it to twist it,

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Speaker 2: but like all I meant was, it's not that she's

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Speaker 2: forced to marry him, it's that his punishment is if

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Speaker 2: she wants to, he has to marry her right, that

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Speaker 2: is unbelievable.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, wow, And so all.

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Speaker 2: Of these people are coming to the defense of like

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Speaker 2: she's trying to make Jews look and sound bad. But

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Speaker 2: the reality is, you know, like her options would be

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Speaker 2: severely limited because of having been raped, and so maybe

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Speaker 2: she wants to be married so she's not alone forever.

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Speaker 2: So while I understand that it's like or you could

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Speaker 2: just make the law that you can't hold it against

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Speaker 2: someone if they've been raped, right, right, lessen their value

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Speaker 2: for a marriage. And maybe he has to give her

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Speaker 2: a shit ton of money so she's not financially dependent

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Speaker 2: on her husband.

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Speaker 3: And maybe he should like go to jail or something exactly.

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Speaker 2: So warning you in advance, I feel like you might

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Speaker 2: get pushback about some things I say, because people are

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Speaker 2: really looking to twist it, Like I never was saying

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Speaker 2: she's forced to marry him, but I guess I didn't

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Speaker 2: explicitly say she has a choice. I just the point

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Speaker 2: is his punishment is not having to give her monetary compensation.

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Speaker 2: Form of punishment is marry the person that you raped,

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Speaker 2: which sounds fucking but.

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Speaker 5: You were also this is a stand up joke that

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Speaker 5: people need to calm down.

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Speaker 4: You can stand up. No, but it's complicated and everyone.

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Speaker 5: Yes, I think that is an important point to make,

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Speaker 5: like this is not going to be a universal thing

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Speaker 5: that applies to all Jewish people everywhere, of course.

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Speaker 2: And they're all so detailed that I'm not gonna be

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Speaker 2: able to break down every detail of every law. And

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Speaker 2: somebody might be like she lied, and it's like I

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Speaker 2: maybe didn't include something because I didn't think it was pertinent,

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Speaker 2: right right, or there's just so much to get into,

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Speaker 2: Like my brother even was like one podcast, I don't

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Speaker 2: know how you're going to do that.

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Speaker 4: The rice thing.

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Speaker 5: I was just with Jeremy, our friend Jeremy. It was

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Speaker 5: just pass Over and I just learned that rice was

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Speaker 5: included in leavened bread, which seemed so confusing to me.

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Speaker 4: You know, I have no idea why it's levined.

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Speaker 2: Nor is he observant or he doesn't eat rice on pas.

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Speaker 4: He is mostly observant.

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Speaker 5: Tea was Yeah, he was bringing matza and eating like

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Speaker 5: Matsa only meals for the for the most part.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, does he eat maza balls on Passover? Do you know?

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Speaker 4: I do not know the answer to that question.

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Speaker 2: Okay, because that's another one that's like it's so emblematic

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Speaker 2: of the religion and of the holiday. And we weren't

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Speaker 2: allowed to have montsibal soup on Passover because there's a

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Speaker 2: whole thing about how just in case part of the

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Speaker 2: masa after it's been baked cooked. I don't even really

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Speaker 2: know how matsa's prepared, but like if the leavening process

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Speaker 2: happens when it interacts with water, so they like cap

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Speaker 2: it at a certain point, but just in case not

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Speaker 2: all of it interacted with water, and there's like a

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Speaker 2: section of flour that now is interacting with the soup

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Speaker 2: and has a chance to rise and levin and become

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Speaker 2: not kosher. For Passover, we were not allowed to have

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Speaker 2: MATSim ol soup on pesa.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 5: Wow, Wow, that totally confused me. But I got the gist,

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Speaker 5: which is that it's specific.

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Speaker 2: And there's also different kinds of matsa, and like what's acceptable,

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Speaker 2: like we would have shbura matsa, which I should look up.

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Speaker 2: I don't remember what that means. I think it means

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Speaker 2: it's like watched and created by an Orthodox Jew or

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Speaker 2: maybe an in Israel. I mean, everything is just so

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Speaker 2: much more stringent than it seems on the surface if.

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Speaker 5: You yeah, yeah, Well for our listeners, are you still Jewish?

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Speaker 2: I think I'm still Jewish just because it is like,

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Speaker 2: you know, I did a twenty three and me and

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Speaker 2: it like comes back, I'm ninety eight percent Ashkenazi jew

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Speaker 2: Like I don't think I can ever get rid of it,

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Speaker 2: the stench of jew on me. But I'm not. I

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Speaker 2: don't believe in the things that I was raised with.

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Speaker 4: Okay, well we'll talk more about that later.

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Speaker 5: So tell us what you believe growing up in, what

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Speaker 5: kind of specific rituals and rules and guidelines you had?

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Speaker 2: Gosh, I wish I remembered more for my childhood in general.

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Speaker 2: I think trauma just makes you block out a lot

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Speaker 2: of it. But there was there were a bunch of

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Speaker 2: things like I remember very insulated in that, Like I

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Speaker 2: knew that I was supposed to love God and that

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Speaker 2: was important. Like I don't remember when I learned that

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Speaker 2: or felt that, but I do remember flipping through the channels.

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Speaker 2: It must have been like a the Christianity Network or something,

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Speaker 2: and they're talking about the Holy Trinity, like God, the

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Speaker 2: Holy Ghost, the Son, the Father, the Son, and the

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Speaker 2: Holy Ghost. Is that right? What am I saying?

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Speaker 4: Yes?

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Speaker 2: And I thought I didn't even know that there were

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Speaker 2: other religions, so I just heard them talking about God

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Speaker 2: and was like, this is a Jewish thing. It has

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Speaker 2: to be. And so one of the things that you do,

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Speaker 2: and this part I actually really like and would like

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Speaker 2: to incorporate into my life as an adult, is you know,

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Speaker 2: Friday before sunset, you like candles and you say some blessings.

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Speaker 2: And the way my mom would do it is like

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Speaker 2: she like covers her eyes and thinks about all the

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Speaker 2: people she loves, and so I do really like that.

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Speaker 2: But I came down right before candle lighting, like showing

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Speaker 2: off talking about the Holy Ghost. And that was when

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Speaker 2: I learned that there were other religions because my mom

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Speaker 2: was like, where did you hear that? And I was like,

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Speaker 2: I probably said, like on the Jewish Network on TV.

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Speaker 2: And so I don't think I knew about Jesus yet,

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Speaker 2: but I knew that there was something else. And then

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Speaker 2: I went to like private Jewish school, so it school

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Speaker 2: was like from eight am to four pm. It wasn't

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Speaker 2: until I went to public school that I realized, like,

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Speaker 2: that's not a normal day, but half of our day

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Speaker 2: was like Tora studies basically and a variety of them.

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Speaker 2: So there's like, you know, just basic Hebrew. If you're

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Speaker 2: learning about Hebrew and grammar and whatever, you know, it's

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Speaker 2: either like morals and ethics according to the Torah or

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Speaker 2: the prophets. So it was very like there were there

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Speaker 2: were just it was a dual curriculum. Essentially, our English

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Speaker 2: education was not great. And it's interesting because my if

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Speaker 2: I try to speak Hebrew now I speak at like

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Speaker 2: biblical Hebrew, like I don't. It's not modern at all, right,

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Speaker 2: that's yeah, And I don't remember the conversations around like

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Speaker 2: don't have premarital sex, but like as well as long

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Speaker 2: as I can remember, that's just always part of the

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Speaker 2: you know, all of the general religious stuff about like modesty.

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Speaker 2: Although I wonder if there's any of this that either

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Speaker 2: of you have experienced where modesty doesn't extend just to clothes,

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Speaker 2: which is a big thing. Like women wear skirts and

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Speaker 2: it's supposed to cover your knees for depending on how

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Speaker 2: religious you are, also can be your ankles. Also supposed

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Speaker 2: to cover your elbows. Your collar bone is not supposed

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Speaker 2: to show for some people. Open toed shoes are a

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Speaker 2: big no. My mom grew up having to wear really

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Speaker 2: like thick stockings, so that even just like the color

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Speaker 2: of your legs wasn't showing basically wow yeah, but I

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Speaker 2: did wear like sandals and flip flops. I mean, I

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Speaker 2: also grew up in Miami, which is, you know, big

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Speaker 2: beach culture. But some people I would definitely see people

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Speaker 2: from Baisiyaco, where I later went to school, wearing like clothes,

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Speaker 2: towed shoes, long skirts, long sley shirts, like.

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Speaker 5: Walking on the beach toes are very sexy, soo exactly.

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Speaker 2: But then modesty extended. This was just to set up like, okay,

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Speaker 2: the clothing we sort of know about, but it also

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Speaker 2: was like a woman singing is considered immodest.

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Speaker 5: Oh no, wow, oh yeah, none of that for you guys.

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Speaker 5: So there wasn't singing like group singing when you would.

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Speaker 2: So and I have to read up again because it's

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Speaker 2: been a while, but what I remember and like, it

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Speaker 2: does change and new rabbis will come in with different opinions,

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Speaker 2: like kind of what I was describing Gabrucht, the thing

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Speaker 2: with the matsa where like some people can't have maza bals,

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Speaker 2: like we couldn't have matza balls, right, called gabruught so like,

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Speaker 2: some rabbis say that you can't do it, and some

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Speaker 2: rabbis are that you can. So I might not be

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Speaker 2: aware of all of the nuances, but the way that

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Speaker 2: I understood it growing up was like you could listen

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Speaker 2: to a boy singing or man singing, and that's fine,

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Speaker 2: But if a girl wants to sing, she has to

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Speaker 2: be in a choir so that you can't pick out

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Speaker 2: her voice singularly.

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Speaker 5: Oh no, no, what a metaphor?

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Speaker 4: Right, yeah, God forbid. She should be seen as a

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Speaker 4: unique human individual.

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Speaker 2: Well what if she's turning people on with her sexy voice?

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Speaker 4: It's true, it's true.

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Speaker 5: Well, as someone who turns people on with my sexy voice,

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Speaker 5: I guess I can understand.

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Speaker 4: And crazy.

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Speaker 2: Again, it's also like you're responsible for somebody having a

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Speaker 2: reaction to you.

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Speaker 5: Right, I mean that is kind of all religion. That

403
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Speaker 5: is how women have been seen throughout every religion. I

404
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Speaker 5: feel like, yeah, I mean I'm.

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Speaker 4: Sure not every religion, guys, but all the big ones.

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Speaker 2: This is the trauma of having done a podcast and

407
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Speaker 2: getting feedback, which I get. That's why I'm like, look,

408
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Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't speak for everyone.

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Speaker 5: This is a yeah, yeah talk to us about the

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Speaker 5: hair the wig hair thing.

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Speaker 2: So there's also different interpretations for why one of the

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Speaker 2: foundations of the charas. There are like laws that they

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Speaker 2: call hokeem hoax. A hoak is like a law that

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Speaker 2: you have and you don't know why. And I guess

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Speaker 2: that's supposed to be like proof of your faith, Like

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Speaker 2: you don't get the reason behind it, you just do

417
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Speaker 2: a God said, so.

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Speaker 1: God, this makes me so mad, Okay.

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Speaker 2: So there's different explanations for the hair covering. There's like

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Speaker 2: two that I'm aware of. There's like jokes about how

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00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:06,200
Speaker 2: in Judaism, like if you put you know, five Jews

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Speaker 2: in a room, you'll have twenty different opinions. You're not

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Speaker 2: limited to just one even as one person.

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Speaker 4: Wait if anyone doesn't know what is the hair covering?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so once a woman is married, she's supposed to

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Speaker 2: cover her hair, and that also varies depending on strictness.

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Speaker 2: Like some people like my mom used to wear a

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Speaker 2: fall which I only know what that is because of

429
00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:28,680
Speaker 2: growing up this way, which is like her. I think

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Speaker 2: her like bangs, like her front hair would be her

431
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Speaker 2: real hair and then the rest of her hair wouldn't

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Speaker 2: be Although I don't think she does that anymore. I

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Speaker 2: think she wears like an actual wag and covers her hair.

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Speaker 2: Some people, like in Israel, at least most recently, it's

435
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,240
Speaker 2: been very fashionable to wear this sort of like we

436
00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:45,800
Speaker 2: used to call them snoods growing up, which are far

437
00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:49,480
Speaker 2: less attractive, where it's like like a little head condom

438
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:54,000
Speaker 2: kind of. And then in Israel they have these things

439
00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:56,800
Speaker 2: that almost look like I'm thinking of like ancient Egyptians,

440
00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:58,359
Speaker 2: although I don't think that's right, but they're like a

441
00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:01,320
Speaker 2: little more fashionable. They're not hair, but they're like a

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Speaker 2: head covering. And then this is so interesting. I didn't

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00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:06,800
Speaker 2: know till I visited. My best friend got married. In Israel,

444
00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:10,200
Speaker 2: they sell these little like foam pouches that you would

445
00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:12,080
Speaker 2: put in there to make it look like you have

446
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:14,520
Speaker 2: more hair under the Oh my.

447
00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:17,960
Speaker 1: Gosh, wow, but that's a modest.

448
00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:19,440
Speaker 4: Like a cod piece for your head.

449
00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:20,879
Speaker 1: What is a cod piece?

450
00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:23,600
Speaker 4: Oh, it was an old timey thing.

451
00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:26,480
Speaker 5: Or they put it over their dicks like to make

452
00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:27,720
Speaker 5: them look like they got big nicks.

453
00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:30,600
Speaker 2: Wow, yeah, exactly like that. Like Gabby had short hair,

454
00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:33,879
Speaker 2: but it did look better in that thing for it

455
00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:34,760
Speaker 2: to like be full.

456
00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:36,639
Speaker 4: Oh, that's so interesting.

457
00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:39,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it started it's a modesty thing. So I

458
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:40,840
Speaker 2: love that you called that out, Meg, because there are

459
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,280
Speaker 2: people that would be like, you know, my mom's wig

460
00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:45,960
Speaker 2: is beautiful, Like, is that is that more modest? It

461
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:48,800
Speaker 2: seems like it'd be less than just showing your right.

462
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:51,800
Speaker 2: So that's a good a good point. And it's a

463
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,800
Speaker 2: gray area. And then the other explanation that i'd heard,

464
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:57,040
Speaker 2: which is just sort of like more spiritual and nice,

465
00:21:57,119 --> 00:22:00,600
Speaker 2: is that our auras come from this area I'm gesturing

466
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:01,960
Speaker 2: but you can't see. I guess this is what the

467
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:02,720
Speaker 2: crown of your head.

468
00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:04,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, top top of your head.

469
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:06,440
Speaker 2: Top of your head. That that's where the aura is from.

470
00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:08,520
Speaker 2: And then that's what other people are drawn to. And

471
00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:11,480
Speaker 2: so once you're married, you want to like cover your

472
00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:14,600
Speaker 2: aura so you're not like drawing in and attracting other people.

473
00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:16,919
Speaker 2: But by that logic, women should just be able to

474
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:20,879
Speaker 2: wear yamakas like boys do, like just cover that spot. Right,

475
00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:22,399
Speaker 2: Oh he's not how it goes.

476
00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:25,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's interesting. Why do boys wear yamakas.

477
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:27,080
Speaker 2: To remind them that God is above them?

478
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:30,680
Speaker 1: Oh? Well that's nice, yeah, I guess.

479
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:32,560
Speaker 2: And then I have heard people say that that's why

480
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:35,080
Speaker 2: women don't have to wear kipas is because we already

481
00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:37,120
Speaker 2: know and we don't need to be reminded because we're

482
00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:40,399
Speaker 2: like more evolved. But then you're still kind of covering

483
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:42,159
Speaker 2: that same area, so I don't know. Oh and some

484
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:44,360
Speaker 2: people do wear hats and like have their natural hair

485
00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:46,960
Speaker 2: show at the bottom, but again that's debatable. You know,

486
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:48,919
Speaker 2: the more religious people won't do that.

487
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:51,879
Speaker 4: Wow, wow, wow, so many different takes.

488
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, there really are so many.

489
00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:59,719
Speaker 5: I find the idea really interesting that like you're keeping

490
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:01,840
Speaker 5: it up up for the sake of keeping it up

491
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,560
Speaker 5: and the reason why isn't that important?

492
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:06,560
Speaker 4: Am I saying that correctly?

493
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:07,679
Speaker 2: Yeah? Because God said so?

494
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:09,280
Speaker 4: Basically, Yeah, because God said so.

495
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:11,159
Speaker 5: Because on the one hand, yes, it is sort of

496
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:13,560
Speaker 5: perpetuating though, like just have faith in no question anything.

497
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:16,480
Speaker 5: But I also really like the idea of having traditions

498
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:19,000
Speaker 5: because one should have traditions, like.

499
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 2: How it grounds us.

500
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:23,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, as you know, I'm not a very spiritual person

501
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:27,399
Speaker 5: outside of like some mindfulness meditation, but I really missed

502
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:30,280
Speaker 5: the I missed the rituals of religion. I miss like

503
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:33,080
Speaker 5: having a thing that I do that means a thing,

504
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 5: you know.

505
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:36,639
Speaker 2: Oh right, I did really like the lighting the candles

506
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:38,840
Speaker 2: on Friday night, and also like you know, I couldn't

507
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,200
Speaker 2: watch TV or use the computer, and so I read

508
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:43,439
Speaker 2: more and that was nice. It really felt like a

509
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:45,560
Speaker 2: day of rest. And there also was something so exciting

510
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:49,200
Speaker 2: about when it ended. Checking. I don't think I had

511
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,040
Speaker 2: a cell phone till a little later, but like even

512
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:53,280
Speaker 2: just checking your messages and like who had called you,

513
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 2: missed calls? What boy might have called you on Saturday?

514
00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:57,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, oh my god.

515
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,159
Speaker 5: Now the idea of coming back to my phone d

516
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:02,760
Speaker 5: an entire day of not looking at I would lose

517
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:04,200
Speaker 5: my fucking mind with anxiety.

518
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 2: But it's also kind of exciting because you've had a

519
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:07,879
Speaker 2: little bit of a withdrawal.

520
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:11,239
Speaker 5: So it's no totally yeah, I'm more just mean the

521
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:12,440
Speaker 5: business texts.

522
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, inane.

523
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:17,919
Speaker 4: So did you believe? Did you have faith? How'd you

524
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,640
Speaker 4: feel about it?

525
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:23,440
Speaker 2: A great question and I don't really know the answer.

526
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 2: Like I don't think that I had such a huge

527
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 2: sense of God as like a hm force in my life.

528
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:34,880
Speaker 2: But I also it feels like it was essentially brainwashing

529
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 2: in that not to like ascribe some sort of evil

530
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:40,520
Speaker 2: that they were like trying to do, but just in

531
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:44,199
Speaker 2: the sense of like nothing felt right. So it was

532
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 2: like Lila mentioned, you know, we became friends, and I

533
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 2: was like not still not driving or getting in a

534
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:51,720
Speaker 2: car Friday night or Saturday, or using the phone or

535
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,720
Speaker 2: texting or you know, using electricity. Like the lights could

536
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 2: be on, but they had to stay on. The lights

537
00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:58,600
Speaker 2: could be off, they had to stay off. You couldn't

538
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 2: cook or use the microwave, like you had to prepare food. Actually,

539
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:03,439
Speaker 2: one thing that you wouldn't really think about is like

540
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 2: when you open the fridge, the light turns on automatically,

541
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 2: so you'd like tape down the little switch in the

542
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:10,680
Speaker 2: fridge so that on chabas if you were pulling something

543
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:12,359
Speaker 2: out of the fridge, a light didn't turn on. And

544
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,400
Speaker 2: there was eventually a point where And I really don't

545
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 2: remember how I felt about it so much when I

546
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:21,399
Speaker 2: was younger, but I do remember being like twenty three

547
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 2: maybe and feeling like maybe twenty two and feeling like

548
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 2: it doesn't feel right that if I go for a

549
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 2: walk on Saturday, I just like leave the lights on,

550
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:33,119
Speaker 2: like just wasting electricity for because God wants me to.

551
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,439
Speaker 2: But also the idea of turning them off felt really wrong,

552
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:40,640
Speaker 2: So it just felt like existing was wrong because there

553
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:42,719
Speaker 2: was no version where I felt like I was being

554
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,200
Speaker 2: true to myself, like I was doing things because I'd

555
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:47,560
Speaker 2: always done them, and that didn't feel like a good

556
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 2: enough reason. But then, like I said, you know, not

557
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,159
Speaker 2: doing it felt like I would be disappointing my family

558
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:57,479
Speaker 2: and provoking God's ire. And then finally I saw a

559
00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,680
Speaker 2: therapist who told me that turning lights off feel wrong

560
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 2: for a while and that eventually I'd get used to it.

561
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:08,199
Speaker 2: And I know a lot of like Orthodox people that

562
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 2: have gone to see Orthodox therapists, and the advice would

563
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 2: have been the exact opposite. It would be like, you know,

564
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 2: it doesn't feel right because you're like in a different world,

565
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:21,119
Speaker 2: in a different community, you're disconnected from your community, but

566
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:24,159
Speaker 2: just keep doing it and eventually you'll remember what you

567
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 2: love about it.

568
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 5: You know, right, right, right, So it could have totally

569
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 5: gone the other way. So for me, you know, in Mormonism,

570
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,119
Speaker 5: we go to church, long church, then there are other

571
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 5: church activities during the week, but then every Sunday people

572
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 5: go up and talk, and then you have a separate meeting,

573
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 5: and once a month there are people bear their testimony

574
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 5: and they get up and talk about how much faith

575
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,120
Speaker 5: they have, and they usually start crying. We've talked about

576
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 5: this a bunch before. I was always like, why can't

577
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 5: I cry? Why can't I cry?

578
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 4: But I did really believe. I did really believe.

579
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 5: I just didn't understand why I didn't, like get emotional

580
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:56,400
Speaker 5: and cry about it.

581
00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:58,240
Speaker 4: I'm trying to understand the difference.

582
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:00,720
Speaker 5: Between like the rituals and the like things that you

583
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 5: do and like the amount of like actual spirituality and

584
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:07,159
Speaker 5: emotion and you know, faith that you are supposed to have.

585
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 4: I guess yeah.

586
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:11,439
Speaker 2: I think whoever it was, whether it was like my teacher,

587
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 2: my teachers in school, or my parents, like the spiritual

588
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:19,400
Speaker 2: side did not feel like it was emphasized that much. Instead,

589
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:23,240
Speaker 2: it was a lot more about process. And I wouldn't

590
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 2: even necessarily say ritual because like wearing a skirt and

591
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,719
Speaker 2: like not showing your collarbone is not a ritual, but

592
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:32,400
Speaker 2: it's like a lot of business, right, and like this

593
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 2: is how this is done. And it felt like it

594
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:37,639
Speaker 2: was much more like almost legal eese, like this is

595
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:39,919
Speaker 2: what makes this thing kosher, this is what makes it

596
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,399
Speaker 2: not kosher. This is what's modest, this is what's not modest.

597
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 2: Here's what you're allowed to do. Here are the mitzvos

598
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:46,120
Speaker 2: that you have to do, and here are the mitzvosts

599
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:47,720
Speaker 2: of like things you're not allowed to do, things that

600
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 2: are us or and oftentimes why and what they I

601
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:53,399
Speaker 2: think it's like the forty nine mile hosts are the

602
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:55,359
Speaker 2: things that are considered work, so you're not allowed to

603
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:58,439
Speaker 2: do any of them on jobs. So it felt like

604
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 2: it was a lot of like almost like legal studies

605
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 2: more than it was philosophical or spiritual.

606
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 4: Yeah right right, huh, I can't even picture that.

607
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:11,360
Speaker 5: Religion to me is so wrapped up in like the

608
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 5: feelings that you have about it. You know, my parents

609
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:15,440
Speaker 5: would pray about stuff and then they get a good

610
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,159
Speaker 5: feeling or they something would be a message from God

611
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:19,360
Speaker 5: and yeah.

612
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,240
Speaker 2: Right, well my mom would cry on yung keepoor, which

613
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:24,680
Speaker 2: even I feel like a fraud saying yung keepor because

614
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:28,160
Speaker 2: like there so there's such a disconnect between like Hebrew

615
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 2: and the way Israeli's speak Hebrew and the way Orthodox

616
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 2: Jews speak quote unquote Hebrew, which is like very bastardized,

617
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 2: but like we'd say young kipper or like shabs versus

618
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 2: shabbat yung keepor, so I like go back and forth

619
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 2: now because it is this weird. You know, I'm in

620
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 2: a relationship with somebody who's Israeli and like, I would

621
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 2: be embarrassed to say the words those way in front

622
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 2: of his parents. I'll say Shabbat shalom instead of good Chabis.

623
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 2: You know, I try it. It's like, I guess, a

624
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 2: weird sort of like code switching, almost right, because they're

625
00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 2: so secular and like there are you know, maybe their

626
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 2: relationship religion is more spiritual because they're so secular. And

627
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 2: I know people that are like Reformed Jews or Conservative Jews,

628
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 2: which sounds like it would be more strict, but Conservative

629
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 2: is is less strict. Conservative is like basically more casual,

630
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 2: and a lot of them it's it is more about

631
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 2: the spiritual components. But the Orthodox Jews, I think, yeah,

632
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 2: the emphasis is a law on like restrictions and law.

633
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 2: I guess now, I'm like, maybe I should have been

634
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 2: a lawyer, and I can see why there's a stereotype

635
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 2: of Jewish lawyers. So yeah, but my mom would cry

636
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 2: on you, ome kipper. You know you sh'd be dobbning,

637
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 2: which is the word for praying. She'd be, you know,

638
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 2: dobbning for the people that she loved and for whatever,

639
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 2: you know, repenting for her sins. I mean part of

640
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 2: the the Young Kipper prayers. You say, I'll fight chafatanu

641
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 2: la fanfa. You strike your chest, you strike your heart.

642
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 2: There's like a whole list of sins that you read,

643
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 2: and you're like praying to God to forgive you for

644
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 2: all of these sins. I'll fight chefatanu la fanfa for

645
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 2: this sin that we have sinned before you, for this

646
00:29:58,200 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 2: sin that we have sin before you. And each time

647
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 2: you say i'll I think each time you say we

648
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 2: have sinned, we have sinned, you hit your chest, which

649
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 2: I guess I don't know why, but it does feel

650
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 2: very dramatic and apologetic, and you're like prostrate before God.

651
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 4: I know I'm seeing it right now. Yeah, it feels nice,

652
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 4: So I'm getting something out of it.

653
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, So, like I think maybe that's the equivalent of

654
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 2: you saying, like, why can't I cry? Like I would

655
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 2: be doing that, but I wouldn't feel anything. I remember

656
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 2: when I would go to temple on you and Kipper,

657
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 2: it was like I was just tired and I just

658
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 2: wanted to go home and go to bed, which also

659
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 2: you're fasting, So that's why. But I'm the way that

660
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 2: I grew up this Orthodox duties, and we'd go to

661
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 2: a stiebel, which is like basically like a house that's

662
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 2: been converted into a temple. I think it goes back

663
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 2: to like schettles or you know, it's like a very

664
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 2: sort of small like run by a family, as opposed

665
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 2: to there were some like really beautiful temples where everybody's

666
00:30:56,360 --> 00:31:00,479
Speaker 2: saying and but this was, you know, an Orthodox shoal

667
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 2: and there's barriers, so the men are on one side,

668
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 2: the women are on the other. The men pray out

669
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 2: loud and read from the Torah, and the women can't.

670
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 2: They're not allowed to, and we would usually not go.

671
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 2: Like in my family, the men were expected to go

672
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 2: to temple more regularly, and we would go like for

673
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 2: young Kipper and for Russashana to hear them blow the

674
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 2: show far. But the rest of the time I'd usually

675
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 2: be like at home with my mom helping to prepare

676
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 2: the food for when the men came back.

677
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 5: Wow, how do you think that it shaped the way

678
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 5: that you felt about yourself as a woman so positively?

679
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 2: I mean, no, I definitely think I'm you know, very

680
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 2: aware of my own internalized misogyny. Yeah, and like reading

681
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 2: some stories about you know, trans women who were operating

682
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 2: in the world being seen as men and then after

683
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 2: transitioning and coming out being totally treated totally differently. Like

684
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 2: at the same jobs, they have the same skill set,

685
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 2: and now suddenly they're like, you know, not getting hired

686
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 2: or being paid less. And there is a part of

687
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 2: me that's like, well, that makes sense, and I'm very

688
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 2: aware of that now. And there are plenty of people

689
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 2: in the Orthodox community, by the way, that would say,

690
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 2: I'll just speak like I'm the fucking YouTube trolls from

691
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 2: my stand up set. Like there are people that will say, no,

692
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 2: the women are elevated, the women are more important.

693
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 5: And that's what they would say in Mormonism too, but really, sorry,

694
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 5: not more important, but they said that they were equally important,

695
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 5: just in a different way because their role was so different.

696
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 4: They brought something else to the table.

697
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:46,479
Speaker 2: Right, right, that's like how, I guess how you excuse

698
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 2: it or I don't know. There's a whole thing about

699
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:52,239
Speaker 2: when around the mikva and menstruation, so like you are

700
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 2: not allowed to touch your partner when you're menstruating, and

701
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 2: then you God, I don't. I really wish I had

702
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 2: all the specifics down, but it's been so And also,

703
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 2: like I've I'm not Orthodox as a person who's in

704
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 2: a relationship, so this hasn't affected me. But I know

705
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 2: that you have to go to the micvah like a

706
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 2: body of water, naked and like submerge yourself to be cleansed.

707
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 2: What I'm seeing now online is that it's seven days

708
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 2: after the end of their menstrual cycle. And I think

709
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 2: the way that you've determined that over the years has changed.

710
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 2: Like I think there used to be like you would

711
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 2: put a white cloth up there to make sure there

712
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 2: was no trace of blood and there, yeah, maybe not

713
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 2: all the way up. I don't know. I never did it,

714
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 2: but it's like you just checked to make sure that

715
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 2: there's no blood.

716
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 5: So far up precisely, I would take the exact location

717
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 5: they would.

718
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,719
Speaker 2: Have to check to make sure that they were clean. Oh,

719
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 2: and then they could go to the micgvah, and then

720
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 2: they could not just sleep with their husbands, but like

721
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 2: be touched by their husbands, Like you literally are not

722
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:51,080
Speaker 2: allowed to touch while you're menstruating, and then for seven days

723
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 2: after you bleed, So.

724
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 4: Sing I get it. I mean, I don't want anyone,

725
00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 4: but like afterward, come on, men, Yeah, you.

726
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 2: Got to be perfectly clean, spick and span.

727
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 3: It just seems like a breeding ground for obsessive compulsive disorder.

728
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 4: Is that that's true?

729
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,759
Speaker 1: Is it a huge thing? Have you noticed that or

730
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:13,319
Speaker 1: do you have it?

731
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 2: Or I have traces of it? My brother interestingly has

732
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:21,320
Speaker 2: it much more. And you know these aren't his customs

733
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:25,719
Speaker 2: men hugging. So I don't know, but I think I

734
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 2: would imagine it's a really good point. I just have

735
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,400
Speaker 2: no idea. But that's one of those things where to me,

736
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 2: it's like, Okay, women are impure because yeah, and then

737
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:39,440
Speaker 2: people will say no, it's that women are so holy,

738
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 2: men aren't allowed to happen. We're too holy to be tough, which,

739
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 2: like I never thought about until a friend of mine

740
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:53,400
Speaker 2: had a baby. I never thought about the fact that

741
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 2: you bleed them too. So you're suddenly a mom for

742
00:34:57,239 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 2: the first time and you can't touch your husband.

743
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,800
Speaker 4: Oh, you can't after until you stop.

744
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 2: Bleeding, and then go to the mikvah. You can't touch

745
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 2: your husband.

746
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 4: Wow, And the micva is just like a body of

747
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:08,400
Speaker 4: water somewhere.

748
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:11,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, like you can go into the ocean. You have

749
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:12,840
Speaker 2: to just like make sure first of all, you have

750
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 2: to be nude, and you have to dunk yourself completely.

751
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 2: You have to be like fully submerged.

752
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 4: Excuse me, what if there are people around?

753
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:21,839
Speaker 2: Well, then you don't, then I do. Then you don't

754
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:24,359
Speaker 2: use the oce. You can use I think you can

755
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 2: use like a pool. I know there's a lot of

756
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:30,799
Speaker 2: there's like there are migvahs at like special locations, Like

757
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 2: I don't think they are synagogues, but they're like you know,

758
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 2: specifically you can go to see and usually there's like

759
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 2: a woman working there, so it's sneeus is the word

760
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 2: for modest. But I should know more specifically of what.

761
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 2: Let's see what constitutes a migvhah.

762
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:48,719
Speaker 5: A pool is a funny idea, just like showing up

763
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:51,279
Speaker 5: at your friend's house. You're like, can I borrow your

764
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:51,959
Speaker 5: pool for life?

765
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:53,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, come out for a while.

766
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 2: A bath used for the purposes of ritual immersion and

767
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 2: judaism to achieve ritual purity. Most forms of ritual impurity

768
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:05,760
Speaker 2: can be purified through immersion in any natural collection of water. However,

769
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:09,439
Speaker 2: some impurities, such as a zov, require living water, such

770
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,960
Speaker 2: as springs or groundwater wells, whoa living water has the

771
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 2: further advantage of being able to purify even while flowing,

772
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:18,360
Speaker 2: as opposed to rain water, which must be stationary to purify.

773
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:22,759
Speaker 2: So it gets very involved your Orthodox Judaism. These regulations

774
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,400
Speaker 2: are steadfastly adhered to, and consequently the mikvah is central

775
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,600
Speaker 2: to an Orthodox Jewish community, they formerly holding Conservative Judaism

776
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:31,799
Speaker 2: as well. Oh, this was also interesting. When my brother

777
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,880
Speaker 2: was dating somebody seriously for years who was Orthodox. She

778
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:38,040
Speaker 2: wouldn't have sex with him unless she went to the micvah.

779
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:39,920
Speaker 2: But you're not allowed to go to the micvah if

780
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:42,359
Speaker 2: you're single, because you're not supposed to be having premarital sex.

781
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 2: So she would do it. Oh, they would go like,

782
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:47,839
Speaker 2: you know, maybe four in the morning or whatever when

783
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:49,600
Speaker 2: nobody was there, and she would use the ocean as

784
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 2: the migvah.

785
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 5: They would go together and she would do the mcvah

786
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:53,839
Speaker 5: and then they would would they.

787
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:57,359
Speaker 2: Have snats on are those things where you're like you're

788
00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 2: breaking some laws but you're like trying.

789
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:03,319
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean that's always so funny though, like the

790
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 5: way we sort of cherry pick the rules from our

791
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:09,400
Speaker 5: childhood as we get older. I mean, I still haven't

792
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:12,720
Speaker 5: had alcohol, and it's not because I believe in it anymore.

793
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:15,239
Speaker 5: I just like need the I need to have an

794
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:17,759
Speaker 5: occasion that feels celebratory enough because it's so built up.

795
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 5: Because I'm fucking forty three and I've never intentionally drank alcohol.

796
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 5: But that is so arbitrary. Why do I still not drink?

797
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 5: That's so stupid?

798
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:29,560
Speaker 2: And when I for years I wouldn't have wine because

799
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 2: the laws of custured around wine are so complicated. I mean,

800
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:35,320
Speaker 2: now I do not eat pig because I love them

801
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:36,879
Speaker 2: and I don't want to eat them, but I think,

802
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 2: for like crab and other stuff, I don't like the

803
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:42,920
Speaker 2: lobsters I want to because they're often boiled alive and

804
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:45,399
Speaker 2: that's too upsetting for me. But then crab, I think

805
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:49,120
Speaker 2: I just don't like the taste because it's wrong in

806
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 2: my mind. So I oh, wow, even the objective.

807
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 5: Crab is so good, though I'm just saying I was

808
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 5: going to say, to be fair, crab is disgusting.

809
00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:00,759
Speaker 4: I was like fucking delicious. I just handerals the other

810
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:01,799
Speaker 4: night and they were so good.

811
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:06,640
Speaker 2: The existence of a magpie is considered so important that

812
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:09,279
Speaker 2: a Jewish community is required to construct a macfie even

813
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 2: before building a synagogue.

814
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 5: Oh wow, okay, you have to cleanse yourself and make

815
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:15,600
Speaker 5: yourself pure.

816
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 4: But is there the concept of sin? Yeah, okay.

817
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 2: A vera ros is the plural first sance, like in

818
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:23,200
Speaker 2: a vea is a singular sin.

819
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:23,800
Speaker 1: Okay?

820
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 4: And what's a sin?

821
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:27,400
Speaker 5: Like, what's an example of something you thought would be sinning?

822
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 2: Well, the Ten commandments. If you break any of the

823
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 2: ten commandments, those are sins, So like not respecting your

824
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:37,319
Speaker 2: mother and father, coveting your neighbor's wife, doing anything that's

825
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:40,880
Speaker 2: considered work on the sabbath, which can mean there's this

826
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 2: idea of separating is forbidden on the sabbath. So you

827
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 2: shouldn't even like pluck your eyebrows because you're like separating

828
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 2: the hairs that you want on your face from the

829
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:55,759
Speaker 2: ones you don't. Tearing is considered like ripping is considered work.

830
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:57,359
Speaker 2: So a lot of we didn't do this. I don't

831
00:38:57,400 --> 00:38:58,879
Speaker 2: know why, but a lot of people I knew did.

832
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 2: You would have in the bathroom for shavis specifically, either

833
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:05,759
Speaker 2: people would pre rip toilet paper, they'd like tear it up,

834
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 2: and then you would like pick up a square or

835
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 2: they'd have tissues. But some people were like, even tissues

836
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:12,879
Speaker 2: aren't good because they're perforated edges and you might inadvertently

837
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 2: be tearing it when you pull.

838
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:18,880
Speaker 4: Oh wow, this is just so detailed.

839
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:22,759
Speaker 3: It's soils seems like a game like little kids would

840
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:24,840
Speaker 3: make up to play for like two hours, you know

841
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:25,319
Speaker 3: what I mean.

842
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 2: And it's like very o CD. I hadn't had.

843
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:29,760
Speaker 4: That is a really good point.

844
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 3: It just seems I know it's not, but it just

845
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:35,239
Speaker 3: seems so arbitrary, like there's a lot, there's a rule,

846
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:37,720
Speaker 3: there's a lot, right, yeah, yeah.

847
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 2: Well, especially because we learned this was something that I

848
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 2: remember struggling with even when I was very young. As

849
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 2: we learn that, like one of the original sins was

850
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:49,879
Speaker 2: so God created Adam and Cava, Adam and Eve. God

851
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:52,759
Speaker 2: told Adam that they were not allowed to eat from

852
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:56,040
Speaker 2: the tree, and Adam told Eve that they were not

853
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:59,360
Speaker 2: allowed to touch the tree. And then the snake tempted

854
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:01,360
Speaker 2: or whatever maybe pushed her. She touched the tree and

855
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 2: nothing bad happened. So she's like, oh, well, then I

856
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:06,480
Speaker 2: can probably eat from the tree. And then there's the sin.

857
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 2: And what we learn from that is don't put fences

858
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:13,759
Speaker 2: around the torah. Don't like add restrictions to what God said.

859
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:15,560
Speaker 2: God said, don't eat from the tree, don't eat from

860
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:17,839
Speaker 2: the tree. Don't tell your woman that she's not allowed

861
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 2: to touch it, tell her not to eat from it.

862
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 2: But then consequently we have all of these essential fences

863
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 2: around the tora that are like, you know, you're not

864
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:27,839
Speaker 2: allowed to work, and from that we get you can't

865
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:30,760
Speaker 2: rip toilet paper, Like pretty sure no one considers that work.

866
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 2: Maybe if you're like extremely arthritic or something gets sorry,

867
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:35,479
Speaker 2: you know.

868
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:38,640
Speaker 1: But yeah, that's obsessive, convulsive, I have to do.

869
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 3: Yeah whatever, Yeah, I mean, I'm not trying to be

870
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:46,280
Speaker 3: tried about it, but yeah, hearing all these rules really

871
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 3: really triggers me because I had the same kind of thing.

872
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:52,359
Speaker 2: I mean, as I say it more and more, I'm like, oh, yeah,

873
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:55,400
Speaker 2: of course there was no real spiritual connection that I

874
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 2: was having because it's so you're so concerned about misstepping.

875
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 1: Right, what were you getting from it?

876
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 2: I don't know that I was getting anything other than

877
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:09,640
Speaker 2: like that's what I lived in, right, And yeah, yeah,

878
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 2: I mean I do like kind of speaking another language.

879
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:17,120
Speaker 2: It's nice that I'm bilingual now, Yeah, and I did

880
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:19,719
Speaker 2: I did really like that. I would read on Saturdays

881
00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 2: like it, and like my best friend wid come over

882
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:24,080
Speaker 2: and we would like, you know, sometimes we'd read books.

883
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:25,839
Speaker 2: Sometimes it was just like y am and we'd take

884
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:30,880
Speaker 2: naps and we'd eat leftovers and like, yeah, it was

885
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 2: so nice and there. So this is also another weird thing,

886
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 2: Like you can't boil water on Saturday, so a lot

887
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:38,920
Speaker 2: of people have. They probably it's kind of like what

888
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:40,719
Speaker 2: they have on sets, but it's like, you know, like

889
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:43,360
Speaker 2: a big thing that stays plugged in and then you

890
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:46,239
Speaker 2: just like press the tap and the hot water comes out.

891
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:49,359
Speaker 2: So like I would have coffee on chabas. I've been

892
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 2: drinking coffee since I was like eight. I would come downstairs,

893
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 2: but if my mom would be in the kitchen reading

894
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 2: a book drinking a coffee, and then I would have

895
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:58,279
Speaker 2: my coffee and like read next to her. And that

896
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:01,440
Speaker 2: was the best. Although even with that, I don't remember

897
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:02,799
Speaker 2: if we did it. I think we did for a

898
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:05,240
Speaker 2: while and then stopped because you're not allowed to cook

899
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 2: on shavis. There are some people I don't know why

900
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 2: this makes it better, but where you would pour the

901
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:12,400
Speaker 2: hot water into a cup and then you'd pour it

902
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:14,759
Speaker 2: into another cup and then you'd pour it from there

903
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:17,840
Speaker 2: onto the coffee grinds because it was instant coffee. But

904
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 2: somehow it's not cooking if it like goes through two

905
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:22,840
Speaker 2: cups first, which like, do you guys know about ahors?

906
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:24,799
Speaker 2: This is like a very common thing that you might

907
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:28,240
Speaker 2: know about. No, so there's laws that you can't carry

908
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:31,400
Speaker 2: into different neighborhoods. I guess the laws like you're not

909
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:35,319
Speaker 2: supposed to again work on Saturday Friday night. Things that

910
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:38,280
Speaker 2: are considered work are like carrying something outside of your house.

911
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:39,920
Speaker 2: But like if I want to come to you for

912
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:42,640
Speaker 2: shabout dinner and bring a bottle of wine. Oh, by

913
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:44,400
Speaker 2: the way, we have to talk about wine. There's so

914
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 2: many laws on wine, or even just come to your

915
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:49,399
Speaker 2: house and I need a key to get back into

916
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:51,480
Speaker 2: my house, or I want to lend you a book,

917
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:53,759
Speaker 2: like you're not allowed to carry I think it's might

918
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:56,360
Speaker 2: it might be neighborhood. I think it was specifically like

919
00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 2: outside of your domain. And maybe as a language. There

920
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:02,440
Speaker 2: are these things in religious communities called arabs, which are

921
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:06,480
Speaker 2: basically like a wire that's high up and is used

922
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 2: to encompass a neighborhood so that it's all like one territory.

923
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 2: If the Arab surrounds all of our houses, I can

924
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:17,120
Speaker 2: carry a key to your house or bring a dessert

925
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:17,640
Speaker 2: or whatever.

926
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:19,960
Speaker 4: Okay, So lots of rules, lots of rules.

927
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:23,160
Speaker 2: Sorry, I don't want to get so like legalese. But

928
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:26,239
Speaker 2: that's where where it gets really culty, I think. And

929
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:29,520
Speaker 2: this wasn't our experience in Miami, but it's much bigger.

930
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:32,839
Speaker 2: In parts of New York are like basically having their

931
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 2: own legal department and their own like justice system where

932
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:37,759
Speaker 2: I don't know a ton about it, but there's like

933
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:42,359
Speaker 2: Jewish police basically, and like community will answer to those

934
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:46,680
Speaker 2: people rather than involve like actual police. Or my brother

935
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:49,279
Speaker 2: had a good friend who they call it of the

936
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:52,480
Speaker 2: off the Derrif, which literally just means like off the path,

937
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:55,440
Speaker 2: so like people that are still religious would consider me

938
00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 2: off the derif. And there was a boy in my

939
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:01,840
Speaker 2: brother's class whose mom went on just basically like stopped

940
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:07,719
Speaker 2: being religious and the husband kidnapped the kids, and they

941
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:10,919
Speaker 2: were like, yeah, she's not fit to see the children, oh,

942
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 2: because she's not religious. And I don't know what happened

943
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 2: like in terms of her trying to involve actual authorities,

944
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:21,839
Speaker 2: but she never got to see her kids again, because

945
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 2: that was sort of like the mob justice that Wow,

946
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:25,960
Speaker 2: the community.

947
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:28,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, I was about to say when you first started

948
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:31,239
Speaker 5: telling us that that like, oh, the idea of like

949
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:35,759
Speaker 5: having community policing seems really nice, you know, but.

950
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:38,200
Speaker 4: Not if those are the kinds of decisions that.

951
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:41,280
Speaker 2: They're making, right, right, I think they really do believe

952
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:43,640
Speaker 2: that that's what's best for the child, and they probably

953
00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:45,440
Speaker 2: convinced the child that that's what's best.

954
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:46,640
Speaker 4: For them too, I'm sure.

955
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, they get.

956
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 2: Into some of that in Unorthodox on Netflix, which I

957
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:53,920
Speaker 2: really liked. I know a lot of Orthodox Jews that

958
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:57,280
Speaker 2: hated it, but really, so far the most accurate depiction

959
00:44:57,360 --> 00:44:57,759
Speaker 2: I've seen.

960
00:44:58,719 --> 00:44:59,759
Speaker 4: Why have people hated it?

961
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:01,879
Speaker 2: My mom hated There's like a part where she goes

962
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 2: to Berlin and she's like it's way too easy for

963
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:06,680
Speaker 2: her to make friends, or you know, like people found

964
00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:09,480
Speaker 2: different things, or like, oh, you know what. You know

965
00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 2: what she hated was also that again because of all

966
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:18,120
Speaker 2: the different sects, the accents are so specific that it

967
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:19,800
Speaker 2: was she was saying it was sort of a mishmash

968
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:23,240
Speaker 2: of different sects of Orthodox Judaism, but they were still

969
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 2: way better than the accents I've seen in anything else

970
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:28,719
Speaker 2: like those always ruined it for me, and it didn't hear.

971
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:31,040
Speaker 2: And there's even like there's a thing where I'm like,

972
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:34,040
Speaker 2: I fucking love it because it's so accurate, where somebody

973
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:37,279
Speaker 2: breaks into someone's house. It's one of those like mob

974
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 2: justice situations of like, you know, a member of the

975
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:42,720
Speaker 2: community trying to make something quote unquote right but obviously

976
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:45,240
Speaker 2: doing it wrong. And he like breaks into this person's

977
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:47,400
Speaker 2: house and like takes a banana off of her counter,

978
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:50,160
Speaker 2: and before eating it, he says a brefa, the blessing

979
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:53,120
Speaker 2: that you say for the banana. So he like, you know,

980
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 2: like breaking the law, but still is like cares enough

981
00:45:57,239 --> 00:45:58,760
Speaker 2: about God that he has to say the brefa.

982
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:00,960
Speaker 1: And I that's a great moment.

983
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:03,879
Speaker 4: I love that. So there is sin, but what about

984
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 4: the concept of hell?

985
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:08,920
Speaker 2: So gosh, this is probably a perfect moment to plug.

986
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:10,759
Speaker 2: So I'll just say it here that I'm doing this

987
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:14,440
Speaker 2: web series Anti Social Distance. Go to Antisocial Distance dot

988
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:15,680
Speaker 2: com and you can watch it all, and a lot

989
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:17,200
Speaker 2: of it is me trying to like sort out my

990
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:20,279
Speaker 2: stuff with religion, and the first episode this comes up.

991
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:22,360
Speaker 2: So just know that some of this will be repeated,

992
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:24,880
Speaker 2: but I have heard it said by so many people,

993
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:26,799
Speaker 2: being like it must have been so nice to grow

994
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:29,279
Speaker 2: up not believing in hell. Like people just assume that

995
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 2: about Jews. That is not my experience. There might be

996
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:36,440
Speaker 2: some versions, but like I remember, my brothers learned specifically

997
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:40,480
Speaker 2: that if they jerked off, they would fry in their

998
00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:42,920
Speaker 2: own semen and get them.

999
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:48,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, oh my god, cry and their own semen. That's

1000
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:51,400
Speaker 4: that's a fucking horror movie. What the fuck?

1001
00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:51,920
Speaker 1: Okay?

1002
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:56,759
Speaker 4: Insane and then delicious I did.

1003
00:46:56,840 --> 00:46:59,880
Speaker 2: I spoke to a rabbi for this web series and

1004
00:46:59,880 --> 00:47:02,280
Speaker 2: you can see the episode. It's like an actual rabbi.

1005
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:07,120
Speaker 2: He's wonderful, a rabbi David Kasher. His brother is comedian

1006
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:07,840
Speaker 2: Mosha Kasher.

1007
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:10,800
Speaker 1: Weird. Yeah, cool.

1008
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:14,640
Speaker 2: So we talked about that, like about Henham and about

1009
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:16,359
Speaker 2: the idea of Hell. I'm like, am I missing something

1010
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:19,719
Speaker 2: because like I definitely believed in Hell. And that's when

1011
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 2: he said, oh, well, Ghnam, I guess you could argue,

1012
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:27,560
Speaker 2: you know. So, According to Wikipedia, gih Hannah is also

1013
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 2: a destination of the wicked. Henem is not Hell, but

1014
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 2: originally a grave and in later times the sort of

1015
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:36,480
Speaker 2: purgatory where one is judged based on one's life's deeds.

1016
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:41,040
Speaker 2: But like, I don't see why that's different. I guess

1017
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:45,120
Speaker 2: the main thing is that you're not there forever, just

1018
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:46,680
Speaker 2: until you're cleansed of your sins.

1019
00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:50,640
Speaker 4: Okay, so you can you have a chance to be cleansed.

1020
00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:51,440
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1021
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:54,440
Speaker 2: I think there's also ideas of like you pray for

1022
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:57,960
Speaker 2: people when they pass, and those count towards like I'm

1023
00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:00,520
Speaker 2: almost imagining, like in Super Mario, there's like when you

1024
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:03,040
Speaker 2: get little hearts and then it this your life up again,

1025
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:06,080
Speaker 2: like prayers can help them ascend from gehinnam.

1026
00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:07,960
Speaker 4: I guess, wow, that's nice.

1027
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:10,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, but if you cry in your own seamen, I

1028
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:11,280
Speaker 2: would call that hell.

1029
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:15,799
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's funny. Mormons don't technically

1030
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:20,480
Speaker 5: believe in hell either, But I was fucking terrified of sinning.

1031
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:23,640
Speaker 2: So what was yeah? What was? What would be your punishment?

1032
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:24,240
Speaker 2: What would happen?

1033
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:26,319
Speaker 4: So there are three tiers of heaven.

1034
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:27,919
Speaker 5: I'm sure I've talked about this on the pod before,

1035
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:29,840
Speaker 5: but there are three tiers of heaven. The celestial I

1036
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:34,000
Speaker 5: can't remember which order it. It's celestial and terrestrial. But

1037
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 5: basically the bottom tier, which is where the like bad

1038
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:39,640
Speaker 5: sinners go, is equal to Earth.

1039
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:42,400
Speaker 4: The middle tier, which is where.

1040
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:44,239
Speaker 5: Like you go if you're a good person but you're

1041
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:48,040
Speaker 5: not Mormon, or you're not active or whatever. Joseph Smith

1042
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:50,440
Speaker 5: saw that tear of Heaven in a dream and said

1043
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:54,239
Speaker 5: that if anyone knew how beautiful it was there, they

1044
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:57,279
Speaker 5: would kill themselves to go there immediately. And then the

1045
00:48:57,360 --> 00:49:00,520
Speaker 5: Celestial Kingdom is the highest of the high. Above that,

1046
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:03,200
Speaker 5: there are also I think three tiers within the Celestial Kingdom,

1047
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:06,160
Speaker 5: and that's where you go if you're baptized, if you're active,

1048
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:08,360
Speaker 5: if you're married in the temple, blah blah blah. But

1049
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:11,680
Speaker 5: also the like big thing that you're you become afraid

1050
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:14,920
Speaker 5: of is that if you aren't in the Celestial Kingdom.

1051
00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:16,920
Speaker 2: And your family's there or something you like, you're.

1052
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 5: Not, yeah, yeah, you don't get to visit your family

1053
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:21,160
Speaker 5: if you're like in the lowest tier. And then there

1054
00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:25,279
Speaker 5: is one concept called outer darkness, which is basically hell,

1055
00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:28,920
Speaker 5: but it's only reserved for the very very specific, tiny

1056
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:32,680
Speaker 5: group of people who have witnessed God or witnessed the

1057
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:36,520
Speaker 5: Holy Spirit firsthand and then denied it to the world.

1058
00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:40,200
Speaker 5: That's that's where the outer darkness people go.

1059
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:42,520
Speaker 2: I must not be very convincing if you can see

1060
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:44,480
Speaker 2: it and then be like, no, I don't believe this.

1061
00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:53,200
Speaker 2: I know, not very impressive. Seriously, there's also similarly you know,

1062
00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:56,320
Speaker 2: I don't And now I'm trying to remember where exactly

1063
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 2: this fits in with ghnnan. But but there's an idea

1064
00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:01,120
Speaker 2: of Cechia Hamsim, which is like the dead wull rise,

1065
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:03,920
Speaker 2: kind of like with you know, Jesus and the Messiah.

1066
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:06,840
Speaker 2: But we just didn't believe that Jesus was the Messiah

1067
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:09,279
Speaker 2: and like the dead will rise and like fly on

1068
00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:13,759
Speaker 2: the backs of eagles to Jerusalem. And so I think,

1069
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:17,320
Speaker 2: if you are bad enough, you don't you don't come back.

1070
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:20,320
Speaker 4: I think, oh, okay, all right, well that's scary.

1071
00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:24,279
Speaker 2: Yeah. It was also scary to me. You know, this

1072
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:27,120
Speaker 2: is like a real weird formative experience for my youth,

1073
00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:30,520
Speaker 2: and by weird, I mean traumatizing. But I had found

1074
00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:32,680
Speaker 2: out that I was, you know, half adopted. My biological

1075
00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:34,600
Speaker 2: mom died when I was a baby, and I felt

1076
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:36,680
Speaker 2: very attached to my mom who raised me. And I

1077
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:41,680
Speaker 2: remember asking, like what happens when Mashiach comes and takeya Amesim?

1078
00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:43,960
Speaker 2: And like my birth mom comes back? Who am I

1079
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:47,319
Speaker 2: going to live with, and my dad was so angry, like,

1080
00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:49,800
Speaker 2: how could you even suggest that your mom raised you?

1081
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:52,799
Speaker 2: You know, you don't appreciate anything. And it was like

1082
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 2: it wasn't that I didn't appreciate or is that I

1083
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:57,480
Speaker 2: was scared, Like yeah, what happens?

1084
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:01,359
Speaker 4: Oh yeah that is I mean, oh that must be

1085
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:01,920
Speaker 4: so hard.

1086
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:06,640
Speaker 6: It's so to like look through all that stuff through

1087
00:51:06,719 --> 00:51:09,400
Speaker 6: kids eyes, you know, because I remember once sitting my

1088
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:12,200
Speaker 6: parents down and being like, Okay, you guys, like I

1089
00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:12,920
Speaker 6: have an idea.

1090
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:16,320
Speaker 3: I don't know if it's like really good or maybe

1091
00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:18,520
Speaker 3: not that good, but we're just gonna have to get

1092
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:20,480
Speaker 3: the devil and God to make up.

1093
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:25,360
Speaker 1: I love that.

1094
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:30,920
Speaker 2: So crue cute and pure, like, yeah, if we learned

1095
00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:33,279
Speaker 2: that forgiveness is the most important thing, Like can't God

1096
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:34,919
Speaker 2: just forgive you angel?

1097
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:35,759
Speaker 4: Yeah?

1098
00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:37,520
Speaker 1: I was just like, we're gonna do that. You know,

1099
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:38,520
Speaker 1: let's just do that.

1100
00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:43,040
Speaker 5: You know, God and Sane are suffering from toxic masculinity.

1101
00:51:43,239 --> 00:51:47,200
Speaker 5: That's the problem. They need to like be vulnerable and

1102
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:52,360
Speaker 5: make up. It was just making up for me. It

1103
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:55,560
Speaker 5: took a while to realize how much I had internalized,

1104
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:57,359
Speaker 5: and I just I guess I'm just interested in your

1105
00:51:57,400 --> 00:52:01,399
Speaker 5: own personal experience and like how you interpret it now

1106
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:04,440
Speaker 5: and how it's impacted your life in general, and what

1107
00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:07,879
Speaker 5: do you suffer from or or not suffer from.

1108
00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:11,080
Speaker 2: Well, I think we probably all, just because of society,

1109
00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:13,960
Speaker 2: have a level of internalized misogyny. I just think mine

1110
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:18,759
Speaker 2: is like on steroids, like I remember, and I had

1111
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:21,000
Speaker 2: it much better than my mom did. But the way

1112
00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:24,320
Speaker 2: my mom, Like, if you spoke to my mom's brother,

1113
00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:26,520
Speaker 2: you would think that he like grew up in Hungary

1114
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:30,160
Speaker 2: and like maybe watched a couple of American TV shows

1115
00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:33,080
Speaker 2: and like roughly learned kind of how to speak English

1116
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:35,879
Speaker 2: and came here and has like the thickest accent you've

1117
00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:38,680
Speaker 2: ever heard. Where's my mom speaks English? Like she's American.

1118
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:42,160
Speaker 2: A lot of Orthodox tws don't learn to read or

1119
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:45,480
Speaker 2: write in English, only in the addition or Hebrew, and

1120
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:47,960
Speaker 2: so there's like, weirdly a language barrier. Like I know

1121
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:50,759
Speaker 2: somebody who's completely secular but grew up the way I

1122
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:53,120
Speaker 2: did in New York and became like a fashion designer,

1123
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:56,200
Speaker 2: but he needs somebody to like write and read all

1124
00:52:56,200 --> 00:52:59,800
Speaker 2: of his emails because he just never learned English. Wow,

1125
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:03,120
Speaker 2: And my mom was somebody who you know that you're

1126
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:06,520
Speaker 2: not supposed to read American books or like not just

1127
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:08,760
Speaker 2: American secular books. I guess. I think that's not Tara,

1128
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:11,680
Speaker 2: and so she would like go to the library and

1129
00:53:11,719 --> 00:53:15,520
Speaker 2: would read these books in secret. And I think that's why.

1130
00:53:15,719 --> 00:53:18,040
Speaker 2: First of all, she's the fastest reader I've ever encountered

1131
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:19,640
Speaker 2: in my life. She'll read like six books in a

1132
00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:22,600
Speaker 2: day like it's nothing. What. Yeah, I guess because she

1133
00:53:22,719 --> 00:53:24,400
Speaker 2: just like had to move so quickly.

1134
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:26,439
Speaker 1: But dude, I'm like that too.

1135
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:28,759
Speaker 3: I just went through Yeah, because we didn't have a

1136
00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:31,279
Speaker 3: TV growing up, I just go through books like hotcakes.

1137
00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:32,400
Speaker 2: I like, that's nice.

1138
00:53:32,560 --> 00:53:36,319
Speaker 5: Wow, I'm jealous. I'm like, I can't focus for very

1139
00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:36,879
Speaker 5: long time.

1140
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:39,640
Speaker 2: And Amir seen it and he it's so fast that

1141
00:53:39,719 --> 00:53:42,479
Speaker 2: he was like, I don't believe her. I think she's lying.

1142
00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:45,840
Speaker 2: And I'm like, but I'll talk to her about the books. No,

1143
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:49,000
Speaker 2: I know she read them, but it's like almost as quickly,

1144
00:53:49,160 --> 00:53:51,479
Speaker 2: not quite as quickly as you can flip pages, but like.

1145
00:53:51,560 --> 00:53:54,000
Speaker 4: Almost maybe she's doing spark notes.

1146
00:53:54,239 --> 00:53:57,480
Speaker 2: I'm just saying, well, she's done it with my books.

1147
00:53:57,520 --> 00:53:59,320
Speaker 2: Like I remember when I flew back to Florida and

1148
00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:02,840
Speaker 2: I brought the Leonard Cohen biography and it's Javis. So

1149
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:04,680
Speaker 2: she can't look up spark notes. You can't be on the.

1150
00:54:04,600 --> 00:54:09,399
Speaker 4: Internet, right right, Wow, so cool, it's crazy. I want that.

1151
00:54:09,840 --> 00:54:12,480
Speaker 2: And some parts of the community are not allowed to

1152
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:14,880
Speaker 2: have the Internet at all, and some people do, and

1153
00:54:14,920 --> 00:54:18,160
Speaker 2: some rabbi say it's not allowed. But all that is

1154
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:21,360
Speaker 2: to say, like she she was so she's so smart,

1155
00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:23,920
Speaker 2: and she read so quickly and like absorbed so much information,

1156
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:26,560
Speaker 2: and her grandfather told her that it was a waste

1157
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:28,279
Speaker 2: that she should have been born a boy.

1158
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:29,440
Speaker 4: Oh man.

1159
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:33,200
Speaker 2: Girls don't need to be smart. Men either need to

1160
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:34,839
Speaker 2: be smart or they need to just spend all their

1161
00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:38,040
Speaker 2: time studying toro while you know, their wife, their wives

1162
00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:41,880
Speaker 2: take care of the kids and make the food. That

1163
00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:45,280
Speaker 2: was never important that I you know, women aren't supposed

1164
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:48,400
Speaker 2: to be smart or strong. There's must be strong for

1165
00:54:48,480 --> 00:54:51,600
Speaker 2: the family and be matriarchs. But like that's our purpose.

1166
00:54:52,640 --> 00:54:55,719
Speaker 5: I mean that's interesting to me because knowing you, since

1167
00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:59,040
Speaker 5: you're like nineteen or whatever, you seem to always value

1168
00:54:59,080 --> 00:54:59,840
Speaker 5: being smart.

1169
00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:01,880
Speaker 4: And you know, I feel like we were the smart

1170
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:02,919
Speaker 4: girls in the club scene.

1171
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:07,080
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, yeah, they scene.

1172
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:14,200
Speaker 2: I do think my brothers are much smarter than I am.

1173
00:55:14,239 --> 00:55:17,279
Speaker 2: My brothers are like I think they're all three geniuses.

1174
00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:19,799
Speaker 2: And I don't know if it's like a genetic thing

1175
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:22,719
Speaker 2: because also my mom is like my adoptive mom, and

1176
00:55:22,760 --> 00:55:26,239
Speaker 2: so maybe, you know, I just didn't get as good

1177
00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:28,800
Speaker 2: a geans. But I also think it was more valued

1178
00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:31,359
Speaker 2: for men. But still like that's you know, I grew

1179
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:34,719
Speaker 2: up around them and I did read on Saturdays, and

1180
00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:39,719
Speaker 2: thank god I found Gabby, who is still religious, but like,

1181
00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:41,840
Speaker 2: you know, that's somebody that just got me and we

1182
00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:44,960
Speaker 2: would like spend shops together and read together, and she's

1183
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:47,839
Speaker 2: really smart. So I guess I feel like I just

1184
00:55:47,880 --> 00:55:50,520
Speaker 2: got lucky there. And also, yeah, maybe some of that

1185
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:53,560
Speaker 2: is just the nature versus nurture thing, Like I just

1186
00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:56,920
Speaker 2: think I've never really been vapid. So I was interested

1187
00:55:56,960 --> 00:56:00,080
Speaker 2: in learning, but not in school, Like I didn't think

1188
00:56:00,719 --> 00:56:03,680
Speaker 2: I could ever be like a mathematician or a historian.

1189
00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:08,120
Speaker 2: It was always like English. I just loved stories, and yeah,

1190
00:56:08,200 --> 00:56:11,000
Speaker 2: I never felt like I had to do any of

1191
00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:12,120
Speaker 2: the other stuff. Science.

1192
00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:14,400
Speaker 4: Math. God, I wish I had paid more attention to

1193
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:17,479
Speaker 4: science and math too. In retrospect, I'm like, well, fuck,

1194
00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:19,360
Speaker 4: there's I knew.

1195
00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:22,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, same geography is abysmal.

1196
00:56:23,560 --> 00:56:25,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, we got the same week points.

1197
00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:26,719
Speaker 2: I hate it.

1198
00:56:27,239 --> 00:56:29,880
Speaker 5: I'm trying to re learn on my own time, but

1199
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:31,440
Speaker 5: it's so much harder when you have a career.

1200
00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:34,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, and when you're an adult your brain's not as malleable.

1201
00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:39,080
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, yeah it is. Yes, what about sex.

1202
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:45,000
Speaker 2: I think it's still impacts me. It's still just so

1203
00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:49,160
Speaker 2: much shame. I mean, I do you know full disclosures

1204
00:56:49,160 --> 00:56:51,960
Speaker 2: suffer from anxiety and depression and have been medicated for

1205
00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:55,520
Speaker 2: those things. But I think the maybe the worst of it,

1206
00:56:55,719 --> 00:56:59,200
Speaker 2: aside from some other physical stuff, has been like this

1207
00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:01,840
Speaker 2: thing that happens where I just feel really really dirty

1208
00:57:02,040 --> 00:57:04,600
Speaker 2: and like I want to die. I just want to

1209
00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:06,799
Speaker 2: Like if in those moments I had a button that

1210
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:09,440
Speaker 2: I could press and just like cease to exist, I would.

1211
00:57:09,640 --> 00:57:14,759
Speaker 2: Luckily I don't have that. But it's like I don't

1212
00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:17,440
Speaker 2: know for sure that it's my religious upbringing, although I

1213
00:57:17,480 --> 00:57:21,360
Speaker 2: don't know what else to pin it on. Yeah, it

1214
00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:24,080
Speaker 2: really just feels like I don't deserve to be here.

1215
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:28,360
Speaker 2: I should die. I'm filthy, and it'll happen from like

1216
00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:31,680
Speaker 2: sometimes if I just like wear a T shirt and

1217
00:57:31,680 --> 00:57:33,720
Speaker 2: I'm not wearing a bra and it like rubs against

1218
00:57:33,760 --> 00:57:35,680
Speaker 2: me in a certain way. I'm like I should die,

1219
00:57:36,320 --> 00:57:40,440
Speaker 2: and then yeah, it's I don't wish it on anyone. Yeah,

1220
00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:42,400
Speaker 2: but there's no way to know, right because like you

1221
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:44,080
Speaker 2: have some stuff too, and it's like, is that from

1222
00:57:44,120 --> 00:57:48,720
Speaker 2: your upbringing? Is that I don't know that society? Yeah,

1223
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:51,360
Speaker 2: is that sexual trauma? Because we've also had our share

1224
00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:54,200
Speaker 2: of that. Although I remember this, you know, since middle school, so.

1225
00:57:55,040 --> 00:57:57,720
Speaker 5: I remember that kind of thing in my very first

1226
00:57:57,720 --> 00:58:01,120
Speaker 5: sexual encounter. So I, yeah, I really don't think that

1227
00:58:01,120 --> 00:58:03,880
Speaker 5: that's what it is. And I've come to believe that

1228
00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:07,320
Speaker 5: if we were sectually abused as children, we would remember,

1229
00:58:08,640 --> 00:58:12,400
Speaker 5: unless it's before, you know, before you even have the

1230
00:58:12,440 --> 00:58:15,200
Speaker 5: ability to remember things. But I feel like that's probably unlikely.

1231
00:58:15,640 --> 00:58:18,720
Speaker 2: Though I have told you about Megan, I don't remember

1232
00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:20,440
Speaker 2: if I don't think I've told you about this at all.

1233
00:58:20,440 --> 00:58:24,200
Speaker 2: But I have some concrete proof of having blacked out

1234
00:58:24,200 --> 00:58:26,560
Speaker 2: stuff as a child, which is interesting because when I

1235
00:58:26,560 --> 00:58:30,360
Speaker 2: found out that my mom was not my biological mom,

1236
00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:32,720
Speaker 2: I remember her very clearly, like taking me to lunch.

1237
00:58:32,760 --> 00:58:35,560
Speaker 2: I remember being homesick from school and she like took

1238
00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:37,960
Speaker 2: me to lunch and was like, you know, I didn't

1239
00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:39,760
Speaker 2: give birth to you. I'm not your real mother, blah

1240
00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:42,840
Speaker 2: blah blah. But the day before I found out from

1241
00:58:42,840 --> 00:58:46,360
Speaker 2: the neighbors. And then on the way to school the

1242
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:48,360
Speaker 2: next day, I said, are you my real mother? And

1243
00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:50,080
Speaker 2: she was like, we're not going to lunch today, and

1244
00:58:50,080 --> 00:58:51,840
Speaker 2: then she took me and told me so I blocked up,

1245
00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:56,040
Speaker 2: you know, the entire day leading up to that lunch. Wow.

1246
00:58:56,240 --> 00:58:59,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, well that's also sounds like a fusion of memory.

1247
00:58:59,120 --> 00:59:02,240
Speaker 2: But I remember the love vividly, and even just remembering

1248
00:59:02,280 --> 00:59:04,760
Speaker 2: that I was home sick because I remember telling somebody

1249
00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:06,200
Speaker 2: about They're like, how did you find out? And I

1250
00:59:06,200 --> 00:59:07,880
Speaker 2: told them and they were like, that's weird that you

1251
00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:09,880
Speaker 2: were sick, and she like took you out. I'm like, yeah,

1252
00:59:09,880 --> 00:59:12,400
Speaker 2: I guess that is weird because I wasn't sick and

1253
00:59:12,400 --> 00:59:12,959
Speaker 2: that's not what.

1254
00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:14,720
Speaker 1: Happened, right right.

1255
00:59:15,160 --> 00:59:18,080
Speaker 5: I mean, I definitely have done that where I like

1256
00:59:18,080 --> 00:59:21,560
Speaker 5: like conflate things or fuse things or but generally, what

1257
00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:23,960
Speaker 5: I have heard and read and my understanding is that

1258
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:28,320
Speaker 5: when you have like a sexual trauma, you can confuse details,

1259
00:59:28,360 --> 00:59:31,000
Speaker 5: but you will remember the basic beats, you know, and

1260
00:59:31,040 --> 00:59:32,760
Speaker 5: we can kind of put them away because we don't

1261
00:59:32,760 --> 00:59:35,160
Speaker 5: want to deal with them, but it's not like they're

1262
00:59:35,200 --> 00:59:37,960
Speaker 5: repressed and we can recover them by hypnosis or whatever

1263
00:59:38,280 --> 00:59:41,320
Speaker 5: like That's there's no evidence for that apparently anyway.

1264
00:59:41,360 --> 00:59:41,920
Speaker 4: That's all to.

1265
00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:45,920
Speaker 5: Say very well, maybe a religion thing, but let's take

1266
00:59:45,960 --> 00:59:53,520
Speaker 5: a moment here to appreciate, uh, the Jewish No, I

1267
00:59:53,520 --> 00:59:56,680
Speaker 5: don't know, because I mean obviously, like you know, anti

1268
00:59:56,680 --> 00:59:59,440
Speaker 5: Semitism is a very real problem, especially in the era

1269
00:59:59,520 --> 01:00:03,480
Speaker 5: of Q and on, and I don't want to perpetuate

1270
01:00:03,600 --> 01:00:07,120
Speaker 5: any of those ideas in any way. This is more

1271
01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:12,040
Speaker 5: just about like kind of just extremism, Like yeah, any

1272
01:00:12,200 --> 01:00:16,000
Speaker 5: in any form of religion. My personal belief is that

1273
01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:19,680
Speaker 5: taking it to that level of control in your life

1274
01:00:19,880 --> 01:00:24,360
Speaker 5: can be harmful. But it is not about Jewishness at

1275
01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:24,960
Speaker 5: all at all.

1276
01:00:25,520 --> 01:00:27,600
Speaker 2: Just to balance the scales a little bit more, I'll

1277
01:00:28,000 --> 01:00:32,720
Speaker 2: venture to say that Christianity, even not in that extreme,

1278
01:00:33,160 --> 01:00:35,360
Speaker 2: can be just as destructive. Like you know, telling you

1279
01:00:35,400 --> 01:00:37,600
Speaker 2: about that that channel I saw where I learned about

1280
01:00:37,600 --> 01:00:39,200
Speaker 2: the Holy Ghost. But the way that I found out

1281
01:00:39,200 --> 01:00:42,920
Speaker 2: about Jesus was I went to like a day summer

1282
01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:45,560
Speaker 2: camp around the corner, and you know, I remember doing

1283
01:00:45,640 --> 01:00:47,720
Speaker 2: those like where you put the beads on a thing

1284
01:00:47,840 --> 01:00:49,480
Speaker 2: like a heart, and you iron it and you make

1285
01:00:49,520 --> 01:00:51,439
Speaker 2: those like little plastic do you know what I'm talking about?

1286
01:00:52,320 --> 01:00:53,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, doing that.

1287
01:00:53,680 --> 01:00:55,680
Speaker 2: And this girl who was just like in this like

1288
01:00:55,800 --> 01:00:57,600
Speaker 2: you know, we must have been like eight, I don't know,

1289
01:00:57,720 --> 01:00:59,760
Speaker 2: telling me that she hated me because I killed.

1290
01:00:59,640 --> 01:01:01,440
Speaker 4: Jesus, Oh my god.

1291
01:01:01,800 --> 01:01:03,760
Speaker 2: And I was like, I don't know who that is,

1292
01:01:04,040 --> 01:01:05,040
Speaker 2: Oh my god.

1293
01:01:05,120 --> 01:01:05,400
Speaker 1: Wow.

1294
01:01:06,320 --> 01:01:09,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I don't think that's even in the extreme,

1295
01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:11,840
Speaker 2: you know. I mean maybe she just was like a girl.

1296
01:01:12,080 --> 01:01:14,720
Speaker 2: I don't know that she was especially adamantly Christian, but

1297
01:01:14,760 --> 01:01:16,880
Speaker 2: that's like what she got from her parents. So I

1298
01:01:16,880 --> 01:01:21,640
Speaker 2: do think like religion in general just is often problematic.

1299
01:01:21,720 --> 01:01:25,200
Speaker 2: And then I agree anything in the extreme is is.

1300
01:01:25,400 --> 01:01:27,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, I look that.

1301
01:01:27,080 --> 01:01:30,000
Speaker 2: I also understand it for the Jews because we have

1302
01:01:30,160 --> 01:01:33,240
Speaker 2: been persecuted, and so you develop, I mean, maybe it

1303
01:01:33,280 --> 01:01:35,280
Speaker 2: is kind of like began was saying a little bit

1304
01:01:35,320 --> 01:01:37,640
Speaker 2: OCD of like you develop these routines that you think

1305
01:01:37,720 --> 01:01:41,720
Speaker 2: keep you alive and that keep you thriving. And I

1306
01:01:41,760 --> 01:01:44,600
Speaker 2: think that's probably also part of where the fear, the

1307
01:01:44,640 --> 01:01:48,400
Speaker 2: sort of xenophobia comes in, of like not wanting intermarriage

1308
01:01:48,480 --> 01:01:50,880
Speaker 2: or whatever, and wanting Jews to marry other Jews, because

1309
01:01:50,920 --> 01:01:54,200
Speaker 2: God forbid you you end up marrying somebody outside the faith,

1310
01:01:54,200 --> 01:01:55,960
Speaker 2: and then you don't raise your children in the faith,

1311
01:01:56,000 --> 01:01:57,479
Speaker 2: and then you.

1312
01:01:57,400 --> 01:01:58,680
Speaker 1: Know, they disappear.

1313
01:01:59,040 --> 01:02:02,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, the different ways in which one can be Jewish

1314
01:02:02,880 --> 01:02:07,880
Speaker 5: as a non Jewish person always confused, and I feel

1315
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:10,080
Speaker 5: like I should I feel stupid saying that, but I

1316
01:02:10,120 --> 01:02:12,160
Speaker 5: know I should state it because I feel like audience

1317
01:02:12,200 --> 01:02:14,680
Speaker 5: members might also like experience similar confusion.

1318
01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:18,240
Speaker 2: I mean, people always ask like, is Judism an ethnicity

1319
01:02:18,440 --> 01:02:22,480
Speaker 2: or religion? And the answer is both, right, Like our

1320
01:02:22,520 --> 01:02:26,480
Speaker 2: friend Aaron Geary, when I somehow he mentioned that his

1321
01:02:26,520 --> 01:02:28,480
Speaker 2: mom was Jewish or something. I was like, oh, you're Jewish.

1322
01:02:28,520 --> 01:02:30,160
Speaker 2: He was like, well, no, I'm not Jewish. I don't

1323
01:02:30,200 --> 01:02:34,080
Speaker 2: believe in any of that. But like would Hitler hesitate

1324
01:02:34,080 --> 01:02:36,600
Speaker 2: to throw them in a concentration camp. No, and the

1325
01:02:36,640 --> 01:02:38,919
Speaker 2: fact I don't totally understand it, but like they can

1326
01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:40,920
Speaker 2: see it in your blood, you know. And there are

1327
01:02:40,960 --> 01:02:44,560
Speaker 2: diseases like if a Jew and another Jew want to

1328
01:02:44,560 --> 01:02:47,440
Speaker 2: have children, you get tested to see if your carriers

1329
01:02:47,440 --> 01:02:50,000
Speaker 2: of tasas, because I think that that's a disease that

1330
01:02:50,160 --> 01:02:54,920
Speaker 2: only like if Jews have a baby they can transmit.

1331
01:02:55,080 --> 01:02:57,880
Speaker 2: I don't think, And then I don't know where converts

1332
01:02:57,920 --> 01:03:02,080
Speaker 2: factor in, right, Like I assume that if I marry

1333
01:03:02,120 --> 01:03:04,600
Speaker 2: somebody who wasn't like ethnically Jewish. I don't know why

1334
01:03:04,600 --> 01:03:06,920
Speaker 2: I said, Mary, that's the training. I could get knocked

1335
01:03:07,000 --> 01:03:10,240
Speaker 2: up by somebody without married. But like if I was

1336
01:03:10,280 --> 01:03:13,600
Speaker 2: impregnated by somebody who converted to Judaism, I would guess

1337
01:03:13,600 --> 01:03:15,560
Speaker 2: the baby's not at risk for tasax.

1338
01:03:15,720 --> 01:03:15,880
Speaker 4: Oh.

1339
01:03:15,920 --> 01:03:19,000
Speaker 5: Interesting, it's only when it's two Jewish people.

1340
01:03:19,240 --> 01:03:21,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, huh, Yeah, Well.

1341
01:03:21,160 --> 01:03:22,160
Speaker 4: I don't know what tastes X is.

1342
01:03:22,240 --> 01:03:25,200
Speaker 2: What is a genetic disorder that results in the destruction

1343
01:03:25,320 --> 01:03:27,880
Speaker 2: of nerve cells in the brain and spinal cord In

1344
01:03:28,000 --> 01:03:32,800
Speaker 2: Ashkenazi Jews, French Canadians of southern Quebec, the Old Order

1345
01:03:33,120 --> 01:03:36,760
Speaker 2: Amish of Pennsylvania, and the occasions of southern Louisiana the

1346
01:03:36,760 --> 01:03:37,880
Speaker 2: condition is more common.

1347
01:03:38,600 --> 01:03:40,440
Speaker 4: Wow, what specific groups?

1348
01:03:40,840 --> 01:03:41,560
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1349
01:03:41,600 --> 01:03:43,960
Speaker 4: But I also like hearing that, because no, it's not

1350
01:03:44,040 --> 01:03:45,440
Speaker 4: just a Jewish thing, right.

1351
01:03:45,440 --> 01:03:49,440
Speaker 2: But that's like how I learned about it as if. Yeah.

1352
01:03:48,080 --> 01:03:52,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, I have a crush on a few people right now,

1353
01:03:52,160 --> 01:03:54,640
Speaker 5: thank God, because this year's been fucking true.

1354
01:03:54,720 --> 01:03:56,600
Speaker 2: Right, I need to hear about it.

1355
01:03:56,840 --> 01:03:59,160
Speaker 5: I know, I don't know, but one of them is Jewish.

1356
01:03:59,240 --> 01:04:01,920
Speaker 5: I've dated in a Jewish men. I think it's very

1357
01:04:02,320 --> 01:04:05,040
Speaker 5: I mean not very. I think it's reasonably likely that

1358
01:04:05,080 --> 01:04:07,240
Speaker 5: I will end up marrying a Jewish Man, and so

1359
01:04:07,280 --> 01:04:08,160
Speaker 5: I've been thinking.

1360
01:04:07,920 --> 01:04:10,800
Speaker 4: About that, thinking about sex and the city a lot.

1361
01:04:10,880 --> 01:04:17,440
Speaker 4: Man like Jewish man on that. Yeah, Charlotte for Harry, right,

1362
01:04:18,440 --> 01:04:20,040
Speaker 4: And I'm like, would I do that? Yeah, I think

1363
01:04:20,040 --> 01:04:20,560
Speaker 4: I would do that.

1364
01:04:20,880 --> 01:04:27,080
Speaker 5: I think Joe, really, I think so that's nice for them. Yeah,

1365
01:04:27,200 --> 01:04:29,600
Speaker 5: I mean I there are a lot of things that

1366
01:04:29,680 --> 01:04:33,120
Speaker 5: I appreciate, and one of actually something that Jeremy and Sonya.

1367
01:04:33,120 --> 01:04:35,680
Speaker 5: I'm naming people that audience members don't know. Jeremy's my friend.

1368
01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:38,880
Speaker 5: Sonya is another one of my best friends. They're both Jewish.

1369
01:04:38,960 --> 01:04:42,600
Speaker 2: Jeremy's my friend Sonya's a cunt. But here's what they said.

1370
01:04:42,720 --> 01:04:43,439
Speaker 1: Well, she is.

1371
01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:48,880
Speaker 5: This concept that I had never heard before, which is

1372
01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:52,520
Speaker 5: that in Judaism, uh, it's not necessarily about having perfect

1373
01:04:52,520 --> 01:04:54,680
Speaker 5: faith all the time, but it's about the constant process

1374
01:04:54,720 --> 01:04:55,800
Speaker 5: of wrestling with God.

1375
01:04:55,960 --> 01:04:58,280
Speaker 4: Do you have thoughts on that? Can you elaborate on that?

1376
01:04:58,440 --> 01:05:00,600
Speaker 2: Yes, kind of like what I would saying the idea

1377
01:05:00,600 --> 01:05:03,480
Speaker 2: of like don't build fences around the Torah, and then

1378
01:05:03,680 --> 01:05:06,440
Speaker 2: we do exactly that. To me, it's like one of

1379
01:05:06,480 --> 01:05:09,760
Speaker 2: the areas where the Jewish faith seems to contradict itself

1380
01:05:09,840 --> 01:05:12,160
Speaker 2: because we have that thing that we were talking about,

1381
01:05:12,200 --> 01:05:14,800
Speaker 2: like a hook where you ultimately just believe it because

1382
01:05:14,920 --> 01:05:16,400
Speaker 2: or you ultimate whether you believe it or not, you

1383
01:05:16,440 --> 01:05:19,040
Speaker 2: do it because God said so. But then a passover

1384
01:05:19,120 --> 01:05:23,480
Speaker 2: specifically is all about asking questions, and you specifically do

1385
01:05:23,560 --> 01:05:26,360
Speaker 2: certain things just so that the kids ask questions about it.

1386
01:05:26,400 --> 01:05:29,720
Speaker 2: And it does feel like by nature we're very questioning people.

1387
01:05:30,560 --> 01:05:34,000
Speaker 2: So I mean, maybe I'm making it a contradiction when

1388
01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:35,760
Speaker 2: those things actually go hand in hand, and that's what

1389
01:05:35,840 --> 01:05:38,720
Speaker 2: balance is, right, is to be constantly questioning but ultimately

1390
01:05:38,760 --> 01:05:44,440
Speaker 2: have enough faiths that you do the thing that way. Yeah,

1391
01:05:44,560 --> 01:05:47,720
Speaker 2: So I do like it. And it is very scholarly

1392
01:05:47,840 --> 01:05:49,640
Speaker 2: the way that you study, like I was talking about

1393
01:05:49,640 --> 01:05:54,560
Speaker 2: all of this my Hebrew side, my Jewish side of

1394
01:05:54,840 --> 01:05:59,600
Speaker 2: education with a dual curriculum, Like there's Rashi and Rambam

1395
01:05:59,600 --> 01:06:04,080
Speaker 2: and Ram and they're all basically different rabbis and scholars

1396
01:06:04,600 --> 01:06:07,440
Speaker 2: dissecting why they use this word in the Tara and

1397
01:06:07,440 --> 01:06:09,280
Speaker 2: what it means, and that's why you have all these

1398
01:06:09,280 --> 01:06:13,160
Speaker 2: different opinions, so you know, you are encouraged to think.

1399
01:06:13,840 --> 01:06:16,440
Speaker 2: But then in some areas, I guess it really is

1400
01:06:16,480 --> 01:06:20,080
Speaker 2: just extremism, right, like you turn it into you have

1401
01:06:20,120 --> 01:06:22,120
Speaker 2: to think this way rather than think for yourself and

1402
01:06:22,560 --> 01:06:23,320
Speaker 2: see where you land.

1403
01:06:23,480 --> 01:06:26,840
Speaker 5: I appreciate the version of it where it's encouraging people

1404
01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:29,840
Speaker 5: to think and to like figure out what God means

1405
01:06:29,880 --> 01:06:31,960
Speaker 5: to them. And I don't know, I feel like that's

1406
01:06:31,960 --> 01:06:33,760
Speaker 5: something I grapple with. Not because I don't believe in

1407
01:06:33,800 --> 01:06:36,520
Speaker 5: the Christian God. I just don't, but like, like, Okay,

1408
01:06:36,560 --> 01:06:39,280
Speaker 5: what is there? What do I believe? Is it just space?

1409
01:06:39,440 --> 01:06:40,800
Speaker 5: Is it is it nothing?

1410
01:06:40,960 --> 01:06:43,440
Speaker 4: Is it chaos? Is it energy that connects us?

1411
01:06:43,440 --> 01:06:43,840
Speaker 1: Whatever?

1412
01:06:44,000 --> 01:06:46,800
Speaker 5: And and I know that there's no answer, but I like,

1413
01:06:46,880 --> 01:06:50,920
Speaker 5: I appreciate the process of wrestling. And so maybe maybe

1414
01:06:50,920 --> 01:06:54,360
Speaker 5: one day I'll convert and my future Jewish husband will.

1415
01:06:55,640 --> 01:06:57,920
Speaker 2: Okay, So here's something very uncool to say, but it

1416
01:06:58,080 --> 01:07:01,560
Speaker 2: pisses me off. The reason that You'rejewish husband would theoretically

1417
01:07:01,560 --> 01:07:04,280
Speaker 2: want you to convert is because whether or not you're

1418
01:07:04,320 --> 01:07:06,360
Speaker 2: Jewish is dictated by the mother, right, Because people would

1419
01:07:06,360 --> 01:07:08,400
Speaker 2: just be like, well, who cares have babies raise them Jewish.

1420
01:07:08,400 --> 01:07:11,800
Speaker 2: Doesn't mean Lola has to be Jewish, but the babies

1421
01:07:11,840 --> 01:07:15,120
Speaker 2: are determined by the mother because how do we know

1422
01:07:15,200 --> 01:07:17,600
Speaker 2: you were fucking somebody else and get not, so like

1423
01:07:17,640 --> 01:07:19,760
Speaker 2: you can't go by the dad. So that is sort

1424
01:07:19,800 --> 01:07:23,840
Speaker 2: of this like basic mistrust of women that makes you

1425
01:07:23,960 --> 01:07:26,960
Speaker 2: go by the mom in case you know, the paternity

1426
01:07:27,120 --> 01:07:28,920
Speaker 2: is not what it propos.

1427
01:07:29,920 --> 01:07:33,440
Speaker 1: Oh why, oh my god.

1428
01:07:33,560 --> 01:07:36,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's got to be a Jewish vagina specifically.

1429
01:07:36,320 --> 01:07:39,720
Speaker 2: Right, because we don't know who's semen that is right? Oh,

1430
01:07:39,960 --> 01:07:43,120
Speaker 2: which is so fucked up, I think, But I do think,

1431
01:07:43,440 --> 01:07:46,040
Speaker 2: you know, coming back to kind of highlighting the positive

1432
01:07:46,080 --> 01:07:48,680
Speaker 2: and look, this is also I'm talking about orthodox Judaism

1433
01:07:48,760 --> 01:07:55,040
Speaker 2: like Hacidism, Haradi Judaism, whatever, and my personal experience with it.

1434
01:07:55,080 --> 01:07:57,600
Speaker 2: Some people, you know, convert and end up there because

1435
01:07:57,600 --> 01:08:00,000
Speaker 2: they want to be. It's tough when something is cramped

1436
01:08:00,080 --> 01:08:01,680
Speaker 2: down your throat and you feel like you didn't get

1437
01:08:01,680 --> 01:08:03,440
Speaker 2: to think for yourself. I think there's a lot that's

1438
01:08:03,440 --> 01:08:07,800
Speaker 2: beautiful about Judaism. I don't like this avenue. I mean,

1439
01:08:08,240 --> 01:08:10,120
Speaker 2: Megan and I both read the choice, and I feel

1440
01:08:10,120 --> 01:08:12,040
Speaker 2: like she does such a beautiful like she makes me

1441
01:08:12,080 --> 01:08:15,240
Speaker 2: so proud to be Jewish.

1442
01:08:16,360 --> 01:08:16,760
Speaker 4: So good.

1443
01:08:17,360 --> 01:08:21,599
Speaker 2: What has so much empathy and a willingness to reckon

1444
01:08:21,680 --> 01:08:22,439
Speaker 2: with her past.

1445
01:08:22,840 --> 01:08:27,080
Speaker 3: And she's a Holocaust survivor who's now a psychologist and

1446
01:08:27,120 --> 01:08:30,639
Speaker 3: like a doctor, and she's so cool, so cool.

1447
01:08:30,800 --> 01:08:33,519
Speaker 2: Like she wrote this book at ninety maybe started it

1448
01:08:33,600 --> 01:08:35,400
Speaker 2: like in her late eighties, but it came out when

1449
01:08:35,439 --> 01:08:39,200
Speaker 2: she was like ninety two. I think, Wow, she's amazing good.

1450
01:08:39,320 --> 01:08:41,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, Oprah said it's one of her favorite books.

1451
01:08:42,040 --> 01:08:42,800
Speaker 2: It's so good.

1452
01:08:43,920 --> 01:08:45,760
Speaker 4: Okay, I'm gonna write it, please do.

1453
01:08:45,920 --> 01:08:48,280
Speaker 2: I think you'll just find it so encouraging. Amir's dad

1454
01:08:48,600 --> 01:08:50,800
Speaker 2: started it at my recommendation and he had read like

1455
01:08:51,160 --> 01:08:53,400
Speaker 2: two pages and called me yesterday to be like, thank

1456
01:08:53,400 --> 01:08:57,000
Speaker 2: you so much. I'm reading so slowly because it's not

1457
01:08:57,160 --> 01:08:59,559
Speaker 2: something that you just rush through with something that you

1458
01:08:59,560 --> 01:09:05,040
Speaker 2: know change, it's your life. And I was like, I agree, yeah.

1459
01:09:05,360 --> 01:09:05,559
Speaker 4: You know.

1460
01:09:05,600 --> 01:09:08,880
Speaker 2: In Einstein obviously being a great thinker, I think there

1461
01:09:08,920 --> 01:09:11,960
Speaker 2: is something in the culture that does make you question

1462
01:09:12,080 --> 01:09:16,320
Speaker 2: things and think about things in an interesting way. I

1463
01:09:16,320 --> 01:09:18,400
Speaker 2: think questioning is a big part of it, and really

1464
01:09:18,439 --> 01:09:20,360
Speaker 2: pass over, that's the whole thing. It's like, you know,

1465
01:09:21,000 --> 01:09:25,599
Speaker 2: it's all about questions and involving the younger kids by

1466
01:09:25,640 --> 01:09:26,519
Speaker 2: having them question.

1467
01:09:27,040 --> 01:09:29,719
Speaker 4: So what we're saying is extreme is bad.

1468
01:09:30,400 --> 01:09:33,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I appreciate that you're not trying to look

1469
01:09:33,280 --> 01:09:36,679
Speaker 2: I think obviously I think anti Semitism is wrong. Yeah,

1470
01:09:37,160 --> 01:09:40,640
Speaker 2: I think all people are susceptible to being brainwashed, to

1471
01:09:40,840 --> 01:09:43,800
Speaker 2: being led to live in a certain way and think

1472
01:09:43,800 --> 01:09:45,559
Speaker 2: that that's the only way to live. And like, for me,

1473
01:09:46,400 --> 01:09:49,599
Speaker 2: huge adjustment basically that anytime you think that there's only

1474
01:09:49,640 --> 01:09:51,479
Speaker 2: one way of thinking and that things have to be

1475
01:09:51,520 --> 01:09:54,519
Speaker 2: done this way, it doesn't account for who you are

1476
01:09:54,560 --> 01:09:56,960
Speaker 2: as a person, and like we all just have different needs.

1477
01:09:57,000 --> 01:09:59,840
Speaker 2: And so for me now I don't think I believe

1478
01:09:59,840 --> 01:10:03,040
Speaker 2: in God, but I also, in my understanding, could not

1479
01:10:03,120 --> 01:10:06,080
Speaker 2: believe in God for so long because the only God

1480
01:10:06,560 --> 01:10:09,920
Speaker 2: that I believed could exist is the Orthodox Jewish God

1481
01:10:09,920 --> 01:10:12,280
Speaker 2: that I grew up believing in, so like it wasn't

1482
01:10:12,280 --> 01:10:15,920
Speaker 2: even possible for me to separate the idea of like

1483
01:10:16,000 --> 01:10:20,879
Speaker 2: a loving higher power from this like domineering right, right, yessive,

1484
01:10:21,240 --> 01:10:22,880
Speaker 2: And so I think that's the main thing, right is

1485
01:10:22,920 --> 01:10:26,040
Speaker 2: like freedom, freedom to believe what.

1486
01:10:25,960 --> 01:10:28,879
Speaker 4: You want and be who you want, right totally.

1487
01:10:29,600 --> 01:10:32,240
Speaker 5: I love that And one other thing I want to

1488
01:10:32,240 --> 01:10:35,160
Speaker 5: say about about the cult like element is that I

1489
01:10:35,200 --> 01:10:39,040
Speaker 5: feel like anti semitism, there are so many cults that

1490
01:10:39,080 --> 01:10:44,120
Speaker 5: subscribe to that specifically. Yeah, I mean, obviously Keanon is

1491
01:10:44,160 --> 01:10:47,600
Speaker 5: the first example that comes to mind, but the you know,

1492
01:10:47,720 --> 01:10:54,559
Speaker 5: the sort of extremist, dogmatic yeah, igh control these groups

1493
01:10:54,600 --> 01:10:57,799
Speaker 5: of people. Often one of the tenets of cults includes

1494
01:10:57,800 --> 01:11:00,280
Speaker 5: antisemitism and yeah.

1495
01:10:59,760 --> 01:11:02,519
Speaker 2: And a perfect sort of tie into all of that.

1496
01:11:03,080 --> 01:11:05,360
Speaker 2: We've talked about this before. But my brother Mosha, one

1497
01:11:05,360 --> 01:11:09,200
Speaker 2: of the geniuses that I've mentioned, who who is an

1498
01:11:09,240 --> 01:11:12,759
Speaker 2: atheist and you know, my brothers all are not believers anymore,

1499
01:11:13,520 --> 01:11:16,760
Speaker 2: but he went to school with Derek Black, who was

1500
01:11:17,000 --> 01:11:19,920
Speaker 2: David Duke's godson, who was supposed to be, you know,

1501
01:11:20,000 --> 01:11:21,920
Speaker 2: the next Grandmaster of the KKK.

1502
01:11:22,120 --> 01:11:24,280
Speaker 4: Is that what they called him, something like that.

1503
01:11:24,680 --> 01:11:27,280
Speaker 2: And not that this is wrong, I understand where this

1504
01:11:27,320 --> 01:11:29,360
Speaker 2: is coming from, but like in school, nobody wanted to

1505
01:11:29,360 --> 01:11:31,559
Speaker 2: be friends with that kid, which my friends, which also

1506
01:11:31,680 --> 01:11:35,200
Speaker 2: is like you could argue maybe a cultish mob mentality

1507
01:11:35,240 --> 01:11:37,280
Speaker 2: of like this person represents this, so we're all going

1508
01:11:37,320 --> 01:11:41,720
Speaker 2: to avoid him. And he came from obviously a cult mentality,

1509
01:11:41,840 --> 01:11:44,960
Speaker 2: and he had no choice really nobody wanted to be

1510
01:11:45,000 --> 01:11:47,599
Speaker 2: his friends. So my brother and one other kid would

1511
01:11:47,640 --> 01:11:50,120
Speaker 2: talk to him, and then he became friends with them,

1512
01:11:50,400 --> 01:11:53,840
Speaker 2: I think, just genuinely like better than being alone. And

1513
01:11:53,880 --> 01:11:56,840
Speaker 2: they never talked about who he was, but they knew.

1514
01:11:56,880 --> 01:12:00,120
Speaker 2: Everybody knew. And he started coming to Shabat dinners and

1515
01:12:00,200 --> 01:12:03,519
Speaker 2: you know, renounced white supremacy. And now he's like somebody

1516
01:12:03,520 --> 01:12:06,120
Speaker 2: that kids that have grown up in this white supremacist

1517
01:12:06,120 --> 01:12:09,000
Speaker 2: community can look at and go like, wow, okay, maybe

1518
01:12:09,040 --> 01:12:11,160
Speaker 2: I don't have to be this way. And again, that's it.

1519
01:12:11,280 --> 01:12:14,439
Speaker 2: You're all following the same thinking of like this person bad,

1520
01:12:14,560 --> 01:12:17,679
Speaker 2: anti semitism bad, which yes it is, but if you're

1521
01:12:17,880 --> 01:12:21,040
Speaker 2: just sticking within that specific lane, there's not really room

1522
01:12:21,080 --> 01:12:21,719
Speaker 2: for change.

1523
01:12:21,920 --> 01:12:22,879
Speaker 4: I love that story.

1524
01:12:22,920 --> 01:12:25,120
Speaker 5: I tried to get Derek Black to come on. Actually

1525
01:12:25,200 --> 01:12:26,680
Speaker 5: he was like not doing interviews right now, but he

1526
01:12:26,680 --> 01:12:28,439
Speaker 5: did follow me back, so oh nice.

1527
01:12:28,520 --> 01:12:29,320
Speaker 4: I'm proud of that.

1528
01:12:30,000 --> 01:12:31,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, but it's so cool that that Mosha was a

1529
01:12:31,960 --> 01:12:33,640
Speaker 5: part of that. I mean, I feel like that's so

1530
01:12:34,439 --> 01:12:37,120
Speaker 5: what a beautiful spirit and character that he is.

1531
01:12:37,640 --> 01:12:40,400
Speaker 2: You know, it's funny. It does make me very proud,

1532
01:12:40,400 --> 01:12:43,040
Speaker 2: and I am regardless, but I think it's like I

1533
01:12:43,080 --> 01:12:44,640
Speaker 2: want to just be like he saw the best in

1534
01:12:44,680 --> 01:12:46,679
Speaker 2: everyone and knew that he could like turn him around.

1535
01:12:46,680 --> 01:12:48,920
Speaker 2: Whereas I think the reality, and this is a very

1536
01:12:49,000 --> 01:12:51,880
Speaker 2: Jewish trait is like Mosha's a contrarian and it was

1537
01:12:51,920 --> 01:12:54,519
Speaker 2: so fun to try to be friends with the kid

1538
01:12:54,560 --> 01:12:56,879
Speaker 2: that everybody hated right, right.

1539
01:12:57,320 --> 01:13:00,639
Speaker 5: Right, but still the kid hated him in theory, and

1540
01:13:00,800 --> 01:13:02,840
Speaker 5: like that's that's a bold ass move.

1541
01:13:03,120 --> 01:13:04,360
Speaker 2: That's true. That's true.

1542
01:13:04,640 --> 01:13:05,799
Speaker 4: Motion is making moves.

1543
01:13:06,160 --> 01:13:11,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, he also has been like studying Islam and went

1544
01:13:11,880 --> 01:13:14,320
Speaker 2: and like prayed at a mosque and my dad told

1545
01:13:14,360 --> 01:13:19,759
Speaker 2: him that God's punishing him for that. Oh, he's always

1546
01:13:19,800 --> 01:13:22,840
Speaker 2: kind of a shitster, but also genuinely curious about the

1547
01:13:22,920 --> 01:13:25,519
Speaker 2: kinds of people and religions that we were not exposed to,

1548
01:13:25,720 --> 01:13:31,040
Speaker 2: you know, right and speaking in Indonesia and anti Semitism

1549
01:13:31,080 --> 01:13:35,439
Speaker 2: is very high there. So yeah, he keeps putting himself

1550
01:13:35,439 --> 01:13:36,440
Speaker 2: in these situations.

1551
01:13:37,840 --> 01:13:41,680
Speaker 4: But I think curiosity is great, and I agree, yeah.

1552
01:13:41,240 --> 01:13:44,200
Speaker 2: Coming back to the choice, which you have to read.

1553
01:13:44,280 --> 01:13:45,960
Speaker 2: But that's one of the things that struck me the

1554
01:13:45,960 --> 01:13:49,240
Speaker 2: most is that when she's like at death's door, she

1555
01:13:49,280 --> 01:13:51,200
Speaker 2: doesn't lose her curiosity And.

1556
01:13:51,320 --> 01:13:53,840
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, can we tell you a little what

1557
01:13:53,920 --> 01:13:54,479
Speaker 1: she does.

1558
01:13:54,960 --> 01:13:57,880
Speaker 2: I want you, but I don't know we should. It's

1559
01:13:57,880 --> 01:13:59,439
Speaker 2: so good. I think we're talking about the same part,

1560
01:13:59,520 --> 01:13:59,840
Speaker 2: right it.

1561
01:13:59,800 --> 01:14:02,439
Speaker 1: Has of course, of course the guy.

1562
01:14:03,840 --> 01:14:05,600
Speaker 4: No, okay, don't tell me.

1563
01:14:06,000 --> 01:14:09,200
Speaker 5: Okay, but it sounds like everyone needs to go read

1564
01:14:09,240 --> 01:14:09,679
Speaker 5: the choice.

1565
01:14:09,840 --> 01:14:10,640
Speaker 4: You really have to.

1566
01:14:10,920 --> 01:14:11,639
Speaker 1: It's so good.

1567
01:14:11,680 --> 01:14:14,479
Speaker 3: It'll change your whole life because she's so fun She's

1568
01:14:14,560 --> 01:14:17,840
Speaker 3: really about to die and she does something so funny. Yeah,

1569
01:14:17,880 --> 01:14:21,520
Speaker 3: I mean it's not funny, but yeah.

1570
01:14:21,600 --> 01:14:24,400
Speaker 2: I think she even lays out her understanding of God

1571
01:14:24,520 --> 01:14:28,679
Speaker 2: in that moment, is like perpetually curious, and that God

1572
01:14:28,920 --> 01:14:30,160
Speaker 2: needs to stay curious.

1573
01:14:31,000 --> 01:14:31,800
Speaker 4: I love that.

1574
01:14:32,680 --> 01:14:36,439
Speaker 5: I'm trying to be better about seeing religion even when

1575
01:14:36,439 --> 01:14:38,920
Speaker 5: I think the like specifics of the religion or the

1576
01:14:38,920 --> 01:14:42,200
Speaker 5: belief system are absurd, about seeing it as a thing

1577
01:14:42,280 --> 01:14:45,880
Speaker 5: that provides meaning to people, so the specifics don't really matter.

1578
01:14:46,280 --> 01:14:49,160
Speaker 5: We've had some guests on who talk about like where

1579
01:14:49,160 --> 01:14:51,360
Speaker 5: they are now, and a lot of them are still

1580
01:14:51,439 --> 01:14:53,599
Speaker 5: very much magical thinkers, and I really have to quiet

1581
01:14:53,640 --> 01:14:54,599
Speaker 5: the part of my voice.

1582
01:14:54,360 --> 01:14:55,800
Speaker 4: It's like, don't you know better now?

1583
01:14:55,840 --> 01:14:58,360
Speaker 5: But it's like, no, it's the thing that provides the

1584
01:14:58,439 --> 01:15:00,920
Speaker 5: meaning and their language for what God is and their

1585
01:15:01,040 --> 01:15:04,960
Speaker 5: language for what is meaningful is different than mine, but

1586
01:15:05,120 --> 01:15:09,120
Speaker 5: that is what's important. But the arbitrariness of the rules

1587
01:15:10,120 --> 01:15:13,200
Speaker 5: when they get that specific and that it's that much control,

1588
01:15:13,240 --> 01:15:14,439
Speaker 5: I do have a really hard time with that.

1589
01:15:14,880 --> 01:15:17,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm so glad that you say it, just because

1590
01:15:17,200 --> 01:15:19,519
Speaker 2: I think you and I are very similar in that way,

1591
01:15:19,600 --> 01:15:22,920
Speaker 2: where like having the backgrounds we do, I think it's

1592
01:15:22,920 --> 01:15:26,680
Speaker 2: made our tolerance for that go way down, and some

1593
01:15:26,720 --> 01:15:30,280
Speaker 2: people it stays really high because they grew up with that,

1594
01:15:30,439 --> 01:15:32,800
Speaker 2: and so parlaying it into just like a different version

1595
01:15:32,880 --> 01:15:34,840
Speaker 2: of that feels more comfortable. Right.

1596
01:15:35,240 --> 01:15:37,599
Speaker 4: Well, Hey, thanks friend for coming on.

1597
01:15:37,960 --> 01:15:39,320
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, thanks for having me.

1598
01:15:39,720 --> 01:15:43,080
Speaker 4: What would you like to promote or tell us your

1599
01:15:43,080 --> 01:15:43,920
Speaker 4: socials or both?

1600
01:15:44,560 --> 01:15:47,960
Speaker 2: Yes, my socials are all a vital ash, which is

1601
01:15:48,000 --> 01:15:50,560
Speaker 2: a fun Jewish name, so people think it's always like

1602
01:15:50,600 --> 01:15:56,200
Speaker 2: a v tall ash or but it's a vital ash

1603
01:15:56,240 --> 01:15:59,040
Speaker 2: on Twitter, on Instagram, on TikTok. And then I have

1604
01:15:59,120 --> 01:16:03,400
Speaker 2: this series that is really largely about religion and sort

1605
01:16:03,400 --> 01:16:08,720
Speaker 2: of like finding your place in your identity, marrying who

1606
01:16:08,760 --> 01:16:10,360
Speaker 2: you are with who you were raised to be, and

1607
01:16:10,400 --> 01:16:13,080
Speaker 2: that is antisocial distance dot com. You can also go

1608
01:16:13,120 --> 01:16:16,400
Speaker 2: to Passover twenty twenty dot com because I got a

1609
01:16:16,439 --> 01:16:18,920
Speaker 2: second link for free and it all takes place over

1610
01:16:18,960 --> 01:16:21,720
Speaker 2: pass Over twenty twenty the eight days and Passover. Thank you,

1611
01:16:22,080 --> 01:16:26,320
Speaker 2: Thank you, everybody rate and subscribe. This podcast is so good.

1612
01:16:26,640 --> 01:16:29,519
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, gosh, ladies and gentlemen, that was a

1613
01:16:29,640 --> 01:16:32,600
Speaker 5: vital ash one of my b f f's in the

1614
01:16:32,640 --> 01:16:37,599
Speaker 5: whole world, although I also call another person who's a male,

1615
01:16:37,840 --> 01:16:38,679
Speaker 5: my best friend.

1616
01:16:38,920 --> 01:16:40,360
Speaker 4: How many best friends can you have?

1617
01:16:40,720 --> 01:16:42,519
Speaker 1: I think you can have infinite best friends.

1618
01:16:42,560 --> 01:16:45,960
Speaker 5: Lola, You're fine, but then the word best loses all

1619
01:16:46,040 --> 01:16:50,559
Speaker 5: meaning and no, then really, no one's a real friend

1620
01:16:50,560 --> 01:16:52,120
Speaker 5: if everyone's your best friend.

1621
01:16:52,160 --> 01:16:54,160
Speaker 1: Being in the cult of being literal.

1622
01:16:54,280 --> 01:17:04,640
Speaker 5: Lola literally shut up. She's one of my best friends.

1623
01:17:04,800 --> 01:17:08,040
Speaker 5: So that brings me to the question of do you

1624
01:17:08,160 --> 01:17:11,599
Speaker 5: think that if your boyfriend Chris or Jewish, you would

1625
01:17:11,600 --> 01:17:13,080
Speaker 5: pulish Charlotte and convert.

1626
01:17:14,080 --> 01:17:17,800
Speaker 3: Probably not, Probably not, No, I think just at this

1627
01:17:17,880 --> 01:17:22,559
Speaker 3: point in my life, I'm pretty much over rules and yeah, no.

1628
01:17:22,920 --> 01:17:23,439
Speaker 1: I'm good.

1629
01:17:23,600 --> 01:17:25,439
Speaker 3: I'd have to find a different boyfriend if it was

1630
01:17:25,439 --> 01:17:27,599
Speaker 3: that important to him.

1631
01:17:27,840 --> 01:17:30,240
Speaker 4: That's fair, fair and valid, fair and valid.

1632
01:17:30,439 --> 01:17:33,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I'd pulish Charlotte but I wouldn't pullish Charlotte

1633
01:17:34,040 --> 01:17:35,120
Speaker 5: to become Orthodox.

1634
01:17:35,200 --> 01:17:36,439
Speaker 4: That's not something I'd be cool with.

1635
01:17:36,520 --> 01:17:39,080
Speaker 5: It'd more just be like, yeah, like going to temple

1636
01:17:39,120 --> 01:17:43,960
Speaker 5: once in a while and doing yeah, like observing Shabists

1637
01:17:44,040 --> 01:17:46,120
Speaker 5: or Shabbat or doing the holidays.

1638
01:17:46,120 --> 01:17:46,880
Speaker 4: Like I'd be down for that.

1639
01:17:47,080 --> 01:17:49,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, sign me up. Not a big deal.

1640
01:17:49,160 --> 01:17:53,400
Speaker 3: But if it actually affects my daily life, then I'm out.

1641
01:17:53,640 --> 01:17:53,880
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1642
01:17:53,920 --> 01:17:59,080
Speaker 5: I definitely have experienced enough restrictive religion for one lifetime.

1643
01:17:59,240 --> 01:17:59,920
Speaker 1: Yes, I'm good.

1644
01:18:00,479 --> 01:18:02,880
Speaker 4: But who knows, you know, we'll see who I am married.

1645
01:18:03,600 --> 01:18:06,559
Speaker 1: You never know, you never know. You sure don't.

1646
01:18:06,800 --> 01:18:11,760
Speaker 4: Maybe I won't even get married. I'm gonna get married.

1647
01:18:11,760 --> 01:18:12,400
Speaker 1: It's gonna happen.

1648
01:18:12,439 --> 01:18:14,720
Speaker 4: I expect to get married like three three times, so

1649
01:18:14,800 --> 01:18:18,639
Speaker 4: we'll see. Well that's it then.

1650
01:18:19,000 --> 01:18:21,240
Speaker 1: Well, I mean it sure is. Wow.

1651
01:18:21,360 --> 01:18:23,760
Speaker 3: Thank you for talking to us abutall, and thank you

1652
01:18:23,800 --> 01:18:27,519
Speaker 3: everybody for listening. As always, we just want to remind

1653
01:18:27,560 --> 01:18:32,160
Speaker 3: you to follow your gut, watch out for flags, and

1654
01:18:32,200 --> 01:18:35,040
Speaker 3: never ever trust me.

1655
01:18:36,200 --> 01:18:40,720
Speaker 4: Bye