WEBVTT - Marc Elias & Michael Waldman 0:00:00.640 --> 0:00:04.160 Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:07.120 where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 0:00:07.160 --> 0:00:11.480 today's best minds, and Steve Bennon says, billionaire CEOs or 0:00:11.520 --> 0:00:14.160 supplicants to Trump, we have such a great show for 0:00:14.200 --> 0:00:19.320 you today. Democracy Dockets. Markellized stops by to talk about 0:00:19.360 --> 0:00:22.880 the legal battles of the Trump two point zero era. 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:28.280 Then we'll talk to the Brennan Centers Michael Waldman about what. 0:00:28.360 --> 0:00:30.480 This whole thing is going to look like. But first 0:00:30.560 --> 0:00:31.360 the news. 0:00:31.560 --> 0:00:35.640 Somali the big, big controversy on the internet. Of course 0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:37.840 over the weekend, there was lots of them, but one 0:00:37.880 --> 0:00:40.879 of them really was that TikTok was banned for a 0:00:40.920 --> 0:00:44.080 few whole hours. What are you seeing happening here? 0:00:44.200 --> 0:00:46.720 You and I are on both different sides of the 0:00:46.760 --> 0:00:47.680 TikTok fiasco. 0:00:47.880 --> 0:00:50.440 You are a TikToker, I am not. 0:00:51.040 --> 0:00:53.440 I'm a TikToker who believes it should be sold to 0:00:53.479 --> 0:00:54.280 a US A company. 0:00:54.640 --> 0:00:55.640 The company. 0:00:55.720 --> 0:00:59.800 Yeah yeah, so but whatever, we can both agree that 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:03.080 how this has been handled by Biden world is words. 0:01:03.480 --> 0:01:05.160 I mean, who disagrees with that? 0:01:05.240 --> 0:01:07.720 At this point? Nobody disagrees with it. I think even 0:01:07.760 --> 0:01:09.440 Biden would be like, whoops. 0:01:09.520 --> 0:01:13.480 So what happened here was both branch is the House 0:01:13.520 --> 0:01:15.960 and the Senate said we need to ban TikTok. 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:17.960 It's owned by the Chinese government. 0:01:18.400 --> 0:01:22.720 There's no aggmirate transparency, there's no transparency at all, and 0:01:22.880 --> 0:01:27.040 so we pretty much everyone was like, this has to stop. 0:01:27.319 --> 0:01:29.880 One of the very few times that our government chose 0:01:29.920 --> 0:01:34.880 to legislate, and it was enacted today, the ban, and 0:01:35.360 --> 0:01:38.560 soon after, like Lucy with. 0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:41.320 The fucking football, Donald Trump. 0:01:41.160 --> 0:01:45.679 Was teed up to undo the ban via executive order. 0:01:46.120 --> 0:01:48.040 And there was enough latitude with. 0:01:48.080 --> 0:01:50.640 The way that the law's written that it's not actually 0:01:50.760 --> 0:01:53.640 technically illegal. He's not using his executive order to break 0:01:53.680 --> 0:01:57.400 a law because it's not written quite so clearly. 0:01:57.600 --> 0:02:01.840 But so now TikTok is is bad and Trump. 0:02:01.560 --> 0:02:04.560 Is it looks like a hero to anyone under the 0:02:04.600 --> 0:02:09.760 age of thirty. And this is why Democrats, while having 0:02:09.880 --> 0:02:13.240 very good ideas, still continue to lose elections. 0:02:13.360 --> 0:02:16.200 Congratulations, guys, that was that was not of it. 0:02:16.440 --> 0:02:19.480 We should say, so TikTok is back for ninety days 0:02:19.560 --> 0:02:22.600 after he does this order. But they would still suppose 0:02:22.639 --> 0:02:24.760 they need to sell the at least fifty percent of 0:02:24.760 --> 0:02:27.800 the company to you a US company to have a 0:02:27.800 --> 0:02:28.520 holding in it. 0:02:28.720 --> 0:02:33.040 Yes, and Donald Trump has some of the the Byteedance, 0:02:33.120 --> 0:02:36.240 which is the company that owns TikTok. People up on 0:02:36.280 --> 0:02:39.680 the dais with him during the inauguration, so you can 0:02:39.720 --> 0:02:41.080 see where Donald. 0:02:40.840 --> 0:02:41.480 Trump comes down. 0:02:41.639 --> 0:02:45.720 Great stuff. So in other tech, nice work if you 0:02:45.720 --> 0:02:49.640 can get Trump tech news. He launched a scam coin, 0:02:49.840 --> 0:02:51.760 a meme coin whatever we want to call it, and 0:02:51.880 --> 0:02:53.760 is now twenty five billion dollars richer. 0:02:54.000 --> 0:02:55.160 Yes, trump coin. 0:02:55.800 --> 0:03:00.519 And there was a great headline in the FT which 0:03:00.840 --> 0:03:04.160 proclaimed and I think this is pretty great. The president 0:03:04.520 --> 0:03:07.959 elect of the United States is promoting a shit coin. 0:03:08.680 --> 0:03:13.200 So that's from FT. That's something. Let me tell you 0:03:13.360 --> 0:03:15.840 a shit coin. Yes, And from that shitcoin he has 0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:19.760 made twenty five billion dollars and also lost the respect 0:03:19.840 --> 0:03:23.080 of a lot of crypto people for whom crypto is 0:03:23.080 --> 0:03:29.040 actually a real thing, including the guy who owns Barstool Sports, 0:03:29.160 --> 0:03:33.919 who is Dave Fortnoy yet not a feminist icon by 0:03:34.000 --> 0:03:39.600 any stretch of the imagination. Very mad about Trump's shit Now? 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:43.040 Is he mad because he himself can't launch a shit coin? 0:03:43.120 --> 0:03:43.600 Who knows? 0:03:43.640 --> 0:03:46.240 I'm going to read you what I just I have 0:03:46.320 --> 0:03:48.920 a dumb two part question This is from Dave port 0:03:48.960 --> 0:03:52.760 Noi Feminist Icon. What's the difference between the Hawk two coin, 0:03:53.160 --> 0:03:56.880 which was Tua whatever, the Hawk Tua coin and the 0:03:56.920 --> 0:03:59.600 Trump coin besides nothing? And then part two? 0:03:59.760 --> 0:04:00.760 Can I string up my. 0:04:00.680 --> 0:04:03.640 Own coin now and tell people it's a Ponzi scheme 0:04:03.720 --> 0:04:05.839 from the jump and I'm going to pull the rug 0:04:05.880 --> 0:04:08.680 at some point anyway, The point is welcome to the 0:04:08.680 --> 0:04:10.480 resistant feminist icon. 0:04:10.680 --> 0:04:11.440 Dave Portnoy. 0:04:11.600 --> 0:04:13.760 Yes, And for people who are in fluent, the Hawk 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:17.960 to a Girl who became meme famous that pull did 0:04:17.960 --> 0:04:20.279 a meme coin has now been in hiding ever since 0:04:20.279 --> 0:04:22.520 she did it because she got such a huge backlash. 0:04:22.760 --> 0:04:25.320 Right. She also she was a Ponzi scheme. 0:04:25.440 --> 0:04:29.080 So congratulations Donald Trump, You and the Hawk to a 0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:32.520 Girl have have more in common than not. 0:04:33.640 --> 0:04:36.920 I could see it. So the other big scam news though, 0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:40.080 is that Trump's inauguration has been moved in doors through rotunda, 0:04:40.120 --> 0:04:43.080 where now they will be able to keep two hundred 0:04:43.120 --> 0:04:44.799 million dollars of contributions. 0:04:45.160 --> 0:04:47.440 My hottest take is they're going to keep a lot 0:04:47.480 --> 0:04:50.880 of the money anyway. Also, remember they wanted him to 0:04:50.920 --> 0:04:56.240 be indoors anyway, so he Trump has moved the inauguration inside. 0:04:56.320 --> 0:04:58.320 It means that a lot of his people who bought 0:04:58.320 --> 0:05:01.039 tickets now have to go go to their members of 0:05:01.080 --> 0:05:05.120 Congress to get them refunded. They're not offering refunds. Technically 0:05:05.360 --> 0:05:08.360 it will be less expensive. Also, it is very cold, 0:05:08.640 --> 0:05:12.000 so that's one of the reasons why they're moving in inside. 0:05:12.000 --> 0:05:13.960 And also remember Trump. 0:05:13.920 --> 0:05:18.080 Has had a lot of violence directed towards him. I 0:05:18.120 --> 0:05:21.520 think him moving in inside is largely a better idea. Now, 0:05:21.640 --> 0:05:24.000 you know what's not a good idea, all the stuff 0:05:24.200 --> 0:05:26.840 that Trump wants to do once he's in office. 0:05:26.839 --> 0:05:27.880 I agree. 0:05:28.160 --> 0:05:30.520 Today we had the Wall Street Journal out with that 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:33.560 he's going to declare a national emergency at the United 0:05:33.560 --> 0:05:37.560 States Mexico border. This we'll see this tomorrow and Tuesday. Look, 0:05:37.640 --> 0:05:41.839 all weekend we had different bits of news. Remember we 0:05:41.960 --> 0:05:45.599 had Tom Holman, who's the new Border securiti Zar, who 0:05:46.200 --> 0:05:49.680 had been on television saying they were going to enact 0:05:49.720 --> 0:05:52.400 parts of the Project twenty twenty five agenda. You'll remember 0:05:52.880 --> 0:05:56.279 the Project twenty twenty five agenda being all the stuff 0:05:56.279 --> 0:05:58.920 that was so unpopular that Donald Trump pretended he wasn't 0:05:58.920 --> 0:06:00.920 going to do it. Well, now he's going to do it. 0:06:01.040 --> 0:06:03.880 So part of it is these they're going to use 0:06:04.120 --> 0:06:09.359 these emergency these emergency declarations as a way to skirt 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:12.520 a lot of law to give himself a legal framework. 0:06:12.560 --> 0:06:16.720 You'll remember that last time, in twenty seventeen, twenty sixteen, 0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:21.479 twenty seventeen, Trump enacted the Muslim ban, and that was 0:06:21.560 --> 0:06:25.159 not able to stay, not because it was unconstitutional, though 0:06:25.400 --> 0:06:28.160 certainly there's an argument for that, but because the Supreme 0:06:28.240 --> 0:06:30.480 the United States Supreme Court fild Trump didn't do it 0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:33.280 the right way and didn't dot the i's. 0:06:33.680 --> 0:06:34.599 And cross the t's. 0:06:34.760 --> 0:06:37.279 So this time Trump is vowed to use the military 0:06:37.320 --> 0:06:40.279 to assist with deportations, and to do that he has 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:44.599 to use these emergency and wartime powers acts. There are three. 0:06:45.160 --> 0:06:48.479 The Insurrection Act and that is the one that we've 0:06:48.520 --> 0:06:51.159 talked a lot about. That's the one that would be 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:53.960 where he would be able to go after protesters or 0:06:54.120 --> 0:07:00.359 send the army after Americans. There's the National Enemies Act, 0:07:01.080 --> 0:07:03.479 and then there's the Alien Enemies Act, to which you 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:06.719 and you may remember on this podcast, we've done a lot. 0:07:06.560 --> 0:07:07.560 Of talking about that act. 0:07:07.680 --> 0:07:10.720 That's that act where you can put you can say 0:07:10.760 --> 0:07:15.480 that members of countries you're at war with, are enemy 0:07:15.560 --> 0:07:18.240 combatants and then put them in camps. 0:07:18.480 --> 0:07:19.560 I think that is going. 0:07:19.520 --> 0:07:22.320 To be the hardest one because it has only been 0:07:22.400 --> 0:07:25.760 used three times during three different wars. But you know, 0:07:25.840 --> 0:07:27.560 this is what we're going to get to see is 0:07:27.600 --> 0:07:31.000 a sort of Trump doing crazy stuff with the law 0:07:31.240 --> 0:07:34.080 in order to try to get to do things that 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:38.480 are extra judicial, that are things that are not within 0:07:38.560 --> 0:07:40.960 the normal bounds of the law. And I think we're 0:07:40.960 --> 0:07:42.920 going to see more and more about that. And I 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:45.440 want to just say right now, because we're just going 0:07:45.440 --> 0:07:48.080 into this Trump and I'm saying this for myself as 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:48.560 much as. 0:07:48.480 --> 0:07:51.240 For anyone else. He wants shock and awe. 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:54.560 He wants people to be upset, like the Tom Holman 0:07:54.600 --> 0:07:57.640 stuff in Chicago that he was planning a raid. Part 0:07:57.680 --> 0:08:00.440 of this is to get people scared, right. Part of 0:08:00.600 --> 0:08:02.760 him saying he's going to go after his enemies is 0:08:03.080 --> 0:08:06.160 to make people, you know, obey in advance. I mean, 0:08:06.640 --> 0:08:09.200 just like what's happening at Meta. He wants that to 0:08:09.280 --> 0:08:14.360 happen with everyone. So it's worth just remembering that when 0:08:14.400 --> 0:08:17.880 you start seeing these these headlines come out, some of 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:21.280 this is certainly real, and some of this is meant 0:08:21.280 --> 0:08:25.360 to get people upset, and you'll remember, the cruelty is 0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:28.080 the point, but it's also just the sort of the 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:32.439 fear to make people scared. And so as much as 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:34.720 there's a lot of scary stuff that's going to happen, 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:37.920 there's also we all just you know, we have gotten 0:08:37.920 --> 0:08:40.600 through one Trump admin and we will get through another. 0:08:47.600 --> 0:08:50.360 Mark Elias is the founder of Democracy Dockett. 0:08:50.720 --> 0:08:52.800 Welcome back to Fast Politics. 0:08:52.800 --> 0:08:54.040 Mark, thanks for having me. 0:08:54.160 --> 0:08:57.200 Okay, so first we're going to talk about how you 0:08:57.640 --> 0:09:04.400 superheroed in to the Justice Riggs situation. North Carolina Democrat 0:09:04.520 --> 0:09:07.920 won re election in the Supreme Court and the Republican 0:09:08.080 --> 0:09:09.079 was like, no. 0:09:09.440 --> 0:09:12.240 Yeah, this should be a much bigger story than it is. 0:09:12.360 --> 0:09:15.360 In twenty twenty, we all understood that what Donald Trump 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:17.080 was trying to do after the election was still an 0:09:17.120 --> 0:09:20.600 election by trying to throw out tens of thousands of 0:09:20.679 --> 0:09:23.320 legal votes in a number of different states, and we 0:09:23.400 --> 0:09:25.840 all stood up and I was happy to represent President 0:09:25.840 --> 0:09:28.680 Biden and defeat that effort in court. But that's what's 0:09:28.679 --> 0:09:30.760 happening in North Carolina. That's what we've seen in the 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:35.440 last since election day. Alison Riggs, incumbent Democratic state Supreme 0:09:35.480 --> 0:09:38.960 Court justice won a narrow victory that was confirmed in 0:09:39.000 --> 0:09:41.360 a recount. It was confirmed in a second recount, and 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:44.960 the Republican National Committee, along with the state party and 0:09:45.000 --> 0:09:48.120 the candidate there have been trying to pitch this theory 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:50.600 that there were sixty thousand voters who, by the way, 0:09:50.760 --> 0:09:53.720 were legal, like, there's no question these were not fraudent voters, 0:09:53.800 --> 0:09:56.840 but they're saying that those voters votes should be thrown 0:09:56.880 --> 0:10:01.000 out because essentially they think the state law was not 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:05.720 requiring certain information on their voter registration forms, which is, 0:10:05.800 --> 0:10:08.000 by the way, bunk in and of itself. But even 0:10:08.000 --> 0:10:10.440 if it wasn't bunk like, this is the information the 0:10:10.480 --> 0:10:15.640 state saw it from these votersister. I'm of two minds of. 0:10:15.559 --> 0:10:16.079 This, Molly. 0:10:16.400 --> 0:10:19.680 One is that this is about stealing a state Supreme 0:10:19.679 --> 0:10:21.800 Court seat, and I think that probably for the candidate, 0:10:21.880 --> 0:10:24.079 that's it. But I think that the other thing that's 0:10:24.120 --> 0:10:26.920 going on here is that why you see the RNC involved, 0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:29.280 Because you know it's a five to two court already, right, 0:10:29.360 --> 0:10:31.640 Republic's already controlled this court seat, So why is the 0:10:31.720 --> 0:10:34.920 RNC involved. I think the rnc's involved because they view 0:10:35.000 --> 0:10:37.719 this as if they win this, if they're able to 0:10:37.760 --> 0:10:39.720 pull this off, then they're able to say that Donald 0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:42.680 Trump in twenty twenty was right, like in a weird way. 0:10:42.840 --> 0:10:47.040 This is them trying to vindicate a larger question of 0:10:47.320 --> 0:10:50.319 you know, throwing out sixty thousand votes after an election's 0:10:50.320 --> 0:10:50.880 taking place. 0:10:51.240 --> 0:10:53.199 Yeah, And I think that's exactly right. 0:10:53.320 --> 0:10:57.800 And I think that what is interesting here is that 0:10:58.120 --> 0:11:01.160 this is the kind of stuff that is really bad, 0:11:01.440 --> 0:11:05.080 and that is really the legacy of Trump's twenty twenty 0:11:05.120 --> 0:11:07.199 crusade is that if you don't like the results of 0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:09.880 an election, you can just say no. And it is 0:11:09.920 --> 0:11:12.559 the sort of ethos of Trumpism, too, right. I mean, 0:11:12.640 --> 0:11:14.880 like I was just talking with a guest about Restvott. 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:17.840 Restvaught's whole thing was that he went into omb and 0:11:17.960 --> 0:11:19.480 was like, no, I don't want to give you money for. 0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:22.520 That now, right, Yeah. So I would say it's not 0:11:22.640 --> 0:11:25.439 just the East ethos. I think it's the animated principle 0:11:25.480 --> 0:11:27.960 of trump Ism. People want to know, like what is mechanism, 0:11:27.960 --> 0:11:30.080 and they like contort themselves to try to find a 0:11:30.400 --> 0:11:33.679 some coherent theory of government with Donald Trump, which there isn't. 0:11:33.800 --> 0:11:38.080 I think the only consistent thing is abuse of the law. 0:11:38.400 --> 0:11:40.160 I mean think about it, like, you know, what is 0:11:40.240 --> 0:11:44.199 what was Donald Trump known for before he became a politician. Well, 0:11:44.360 --> 0:11:47.000 you know, he wanted his roy cone. He wanted to 0:11:47.320 --> 0:11:50.240 ignore building code, you know, building codes or whatever or 0:11:50.240 --> 0:11:52.480 whatever the I mean his father did with the you know, 0:11:52.559 --> 0:11:55.480 the civil rights violation. Like he has always been about 0:11:55.679 --> 0:11:57.280 abusing the legal system. 0:11:57.480 --> 0:11:58.080 He sues. 0:11:58.320 --> 0:12:00.280 He you know, think about all the frivol's laws since 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:03.120 he's brought against people. And so you know what you 0:12:03.160 --> 0:12:06.360 say about omb it's like the animating principle is we 0:12:06.400 --> 0:12:07.400 don't have to follow. 0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:09.400 The law, right, No, No, agreed. 0:12:09.600 --> 0:12:12.520 And I think what has been interesting is that trump 0:12:12.640 --> 0:12:15.360 Ism does not scale right. Trump is a separate brand 0:12:15.400 --> 0:12:19.000 from the Republican Party. Republicans are hoping now. I think 0:12:19.200 --> 0:12:21.600 what I think is was interesting in Trump one point 0:12:21.679 --> 0:12:24.960 zero was that in Trump one point zero, Republicans were 0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:27.720 sort of went along to get along, and they thought 0:12:27.720 --> 0:12:30.560 that he would help their brand. Now I think they've 0:12:30.600 --> 0:12:33.440 realized that it doesn't transfer. So they're just trying to 0:12:33.480 --> 0:12:36.520 sort of get as much of his sort of magic 0:12:36.679 --> 0:12:40.720 fairy dust or whatever it is, probably fame on them 0:12:40.800 --> 0:12:42.440 in the hopes that they can take over. 0:12:43.080 --> 0:12:43.360 Yeah. 0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:46.440 I think that Actually, you're right that in the first 0:12:46.760 --> 0:12:49.200 term they thought he might help their brand. I think 0:12:49.200 --> 0:12:52.160 in the second term they are resigned to the fact 0:12:52.160 --> 0:12:54.840 that he has replaced their brand. You know, in many usbecs, 0:12:54.880 --> 0:12:57.840 you know, Mike Johnson is not really the leader of 0:12:57.840 --> 0:13:00.280 the House Republicans, Donald Trump is, you know. I mean, 0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:04.160 like there really aren't any Republican leaders who independent of 0:13:04.200 --> 0:13:07.520 Donald Trump exert any authority or power. And so I 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:10.120 think what they are they're like, Okay, fine, we have 0:13:10.240 --> 0:13:12.960 no brand. There is no Republican brand, and now they're 0:13:13.000 --> 0:13:16.439 going to see whether if they just throw in to 0:13:16.600 --> 0:13:19.320 Trump's brand, like you said, does any of it rub off, 0:13:19.400 --> 0:13:22.320 and then they be they gain power derivatively of that. 0:13:22.840 --> 0:13:23.160 Yeah. 0:13:23.200 --> 0:13:25.760 And we saw this with the election to a certain extent, 0:13:25.800 --> 0:13:28.160 I mean, because we saw voters who voted for Trump 0:13:28.160 --> 0:13:29.400 and left the bottom of the ticket. 0:13:29.440 --> 0:13:31.959 Bye, that's exactly right, you know, and we've seen Look, 0:13:31.960 --> 0:13:34.640 we've seen it, not just in that we've seen it. 0:13:34.679 --> 0:13:37.120 You know, Trump had reverse coattails like kind of what 0:13:37.160 --> 0:13:40.080 you're saying, Like Democrats did better in the Senate than 0:13:40.120 --> 0:13:41.920 they did at the presidency, and they did better in 0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:45.199 the House even still, and that is because there is no, 0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:49.160 there's no there's no Republicanism. There is just Donald Trump 0:13:49.200 --> 0:13:51.880 and then sort of his his merry band of siccophants. 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:54.920 And so I think that Trump two point zero is 0:13:54.960 --> 0:13:57.560 about how do you fold into that? I mean, look 0:13:57.559 --> 0:13:59.959 at the business community, look at the look at look 0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:02.360 what it's doing. I mean, it's it's folding into that. 0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:04.679 It is unbelievable. 0:14:04.720 --> 0:14:07.440 And you and I actually talk offline about this all 0:14:07.480 --> 0:14:08.040 the time. 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:11.080 I wasn't going to say that, but we do. 0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:12.520 We do. We're friends. 0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:14.719 We're friends, and we've thought and we worry about it. Yes, 0:14:14.760 --> 0:14:17.360 we jgularly for people who don't know. Off air, we 0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:19.720 worry about this and talk about it as well. 0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:24.160 Yes, because it's unbelievably scary. I mean, you know, since 0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:29.240 Donald Trump won the election, basically every billionaire, every single 0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:32.640 company that is going to have any kind of legislation 0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:34.640 in front of him, has been like, you know, how 0:14:34.720 --> 0:14:35.800 much can we donate to you? 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:40.480 Yeah, it's remarkable. You know, Normally raising money for things 0:14:40.480 --> 0:14:43.040 like the inauguration is really hard because like a lot 0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:45.560 of companies don't want to get involved in what they 0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:48.360 historically would perceive to be you know, sort of giving 0:14:48.400 --> 0:14:51.760 money for a party for the incoming president. Now, not 0:14:51.800 --> 0:14:56.320 only are corporate CEOs and corporations eager to do so 0:14:56.520 --> 0:14:59.400 when they ran out of benefits to give, corporations are 0:14:59.400 --> 0:15:01.320 still giving them, like they're giving them money even not 0:15:01.440 --> 0:15:04.040 getting tickets that I think they're doing it just to 0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:06.160 be able to show Donald Trump that they that they 0:15:06.200 --> 0:15:09.280 are supporting. And the other thing is Molly. It's like 0:15:09.480 --> 0:15:12.280 sometimes the corporations give it and sometimes actually the billionaire 0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:13.560 just gives out of their own pocket. 0:15:13.760 --> 0:15:18.320 It's just remarkable, Yes, And I think what's really interesting 0:15:18.440 --> 0:15:22.840 about this is that as we see these billionaires making 0:15:22.880 --> 0:15:27.239 these choices, they are not even trying to excuse themselves. 0:15:27.320 --> 0:15:29.760 And then we see today and I feel like at 0:15:29.800 --> 0:15:32.600 every point they keep getting undermined by Trump, so like 0:15:32.800 --> 0:15:34.440 they give all this money, and then we see the 0:15:34.520 --> 0:15:37.080 Jack Smith stuff come out, and it shows that Trump 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:39.720 has even done more right there. He's been a little 0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:41.840 bit even, you know, just putting out this sort of 0:15:41.880 --> 0:15:46.120 information of how he was involved in trying to overturn 0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:49.240 the twenty twenty election is pretty you know, if you 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:52.480 have any moral compass, you're like, wow, this guy. And 0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:56.800 then today we saw that all of these former presidents right. 0:15:57.120 --> 0:15:58.560 I mean, I don't know if you saw this because 0:15:58.560 --> 0:16:01.480 it's breaking news, but that in fact, all of these 0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:05.280 former presidents are refusing to go and to his inauguration. 0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:08.960 It's not just and for this one, it's Barack Obama, 0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:13.240 Bill Clinton, George W. Bush all will not attend Trump's 0:16:13.240 --> 0:16:17.800 traditional inauguration lunch. I guess they don't want to suck 0:16:17.880 --> 0:16:18.800 up to tech bros. 0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:21.600 Right, and again, you know, the thing that I find 0:16:21.640 --> 0:16:25.080 most remarkable is that these tech pro billionaires, you know, 0:16:25.160 --> 0:16:27.560 they strut around as if they are the most important 0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:30.600 people on earth. They're all powerful, all knowing all everything, 0:16:30.840 --> 0:16:33.320 and they have kind of turned themselves into like the 0:16:33.360 --> 0:16:36.040 court jesters of Donald Trump. You know, he summons them 0:16:36.080 --> 0:16:38.160 when he wants to be entertained. He's going to like, 0:16:38.280 --> 0:16:40.160 you know, he's seating them, like there's going to be 0:16:40.200 --> 0:16:42.520 some seating area for them. You know, he's doing this 0:16:42.680 --> 0:16:44.040 to humiliate them, and. 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:46.080 He's got them fighting against each other. 0:16:46.560 --> 0:16:46.760 Yeah. 0:16:46.840 --> 0:16:49.520 Right, they think they're especially he's doing good to so 0:16:49.520 --> 0:16:52.040 they'll be this visual of how he is. Essentially, he's 0:16:52.080 --> 0:16:53.600 made them all sick with one another. 0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:54.200 Yeah. 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:56.600 There are a lot of theories out there about Trump 0:16:56.640 --> 0:16:59.920 and Elon and whether are this romance end? And you know, 0:17:00.240 --> 0:17:03.120 I've heard everything under the sun from like Elon loves 0:17:03.120 --> 0:17:05.760 Trump because he feels like he's a father friguer too. 0:17:06.480 --> 0:17:09.840 Trump is using Elon as a fog guy for when 0:17:09.880 --> 0:17:12.919 things go wrong. And I mean, if you were to 0:17:13.040 --> 0:17:15.960 just look historically at Trump one point oh versus Trump 0:17:15.960 --> 0:17:18.240 two point zero and Trump one point oh, there were 0:17:18.280 --> 0:17:19.919 a number of fall guys. 0:17:20.240 --> 0:17:23.040 Oh, with Trump, the one thing there always is is 0:17:23.080 --> 0:17:26.919 a fall guy. Like the thing about authoritarians is that 0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:28.879 it can never be their full like whatever it is, 0:17:29.480 --> 0:17:32.200 whatever the thing is, large or small. You know, remember 0:17:32.400 --> 0:17:34.760 after the first inauguration, they go back to the White 0:17:34.800 --> 0:17:37.400 House briefing room, there's a press conference with Sean Spicer. 0:17:37.760 --> 0:17:41.320 It goes horribly wrong on crowd size. It was Sean 0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:45.359 Spicer like shortly thereafter like fall guy, and Mike is 0:17:45.400 --> 0:17:48.080 out right and so like it can never like and 0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:49.520 that was a small thing, right, that was like like 0:17:49.560 --> 0:17:51.080 who cares? Like who cares what the size of the 0:17:51.119 --> 0:17:53.720 crowd was other than Donald Trump. But with Donald Trump, 0:17:53.800 --> 0:17:55.719 there always is going to be fall guys. So of 0:17:55.760 --> 0:17:59.120 course it will be at some point whoever it'll be, 0:17:59.560 --> 0:18:02.520 you know, it'll be Steven Miller. It'll be Remember one boy, 0:18:02.640 --> 0:18:05.640 Steve Bannon got exiled from Trump World. And if Elon 0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:08.680 Musk thinks he's any different, he's kidding himself. If what's 0:18:08.680 --> 0:18:11.879 his name Zuckerberg thinks he's any different, Like Zuckerberg already 0:18:11.960 --> 0:18:13.600 was the fall guy once for Donald Trump. But yet 0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:15.240 he's groveling back his way in. 0:18:15.520 --> 0:18:18.960 Yeah, and even like we're seeing reporting, you know that 0:18:19.240 --> 0:18:22.239 Trump is already making fun of Steve Bannon for how 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:25.199 racist he is, right that he the guy loved you know, 0:18:25.240 --> 0:18:27.360 there's some line in there about how. 0:18:27.320 --> 0:18:28.960 You know he loves immigration so much. 0:18:29.000 --> 0:18:31.320 I mean, the thing that I think is so interesting 0:18:31.359 --> 0:18:34.359 about like trump World destroying the mainstream media, which is 0:18:34.520 --> 0:18:37.840 basically what's happened at this point, is that Trump loved 0:18:37.880 --> 0:18:41.440 the mainstream media. That like, without a mainstream media, there 0:18:41.440 --> 0:18:44.120 will be no Trump because these stories are all being 0:18:44.160 --> 0:18:46.760 reported because there are leakers. 0:18:47.080 --> 0:18:50.520 Yeah, no, that's exactly right, and you're spot on. I mean, 0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:53.959 the weird thing about trump Ism and Donald Trump is 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:59.160 that trump Ism acts like the mainstream media is irrelevant, 0:18:59.359 --> 0:19:03.000 like completely irrelevant. But Donald Trump, there is nothing more 0:19:03.000 --> 0:19:06.920 relevant to Donald Trump that his coverage in the mainstream 0:19:08.480 --> 0:19:11.600 I don't understand it, honestly, because you know, as you 0:19:11.640 --> 0:19:13.480 and I have talked, like, I'm more of a critic 0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:16.679 of the mainstream media than probably you are. But nobody 0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:19.359 loves his mainstream media more than Donald Trump. 0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:22.000 Yeah, we go back and forth on this conversation to 0:19:22.040 --> 0:19:24.000 the mainstream media. My whole thing is just that the 0:19:24.119 --> 0:19:26.920 reporting is so important and we're not going to get 0:19:26.920 --> 0:19:30.160 it anywhere else. That said, I feel a little bit 0:19:30.240 --> 0:19:33.200 good because and this is like a place I used 0:19:33.200 --> 0:19:35.320 to work and was not a good place for me, 0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:38.520 But I think is I'm very excited that The Atlantic 0:19:38.680 --> 0:19:39.880 is going to do more reporting. 0:19:40.040 --> 0:19:42.560 Oh, the Atlantic is fabulous, And I do single out 0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:45.199 in individual publications, by the way, and I've singled out 0:19:45.240 --> 0:19:47.159 the Atlantic before. I think the Atlantic is fabulous. I 0:19:47.200 --> 0:19:48.680 think it does phenomenal reporting. 0:19:48.840 --> 0:19:53.280 And they're picking up a lot of the reporters who 0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:54.920 you know, they're not saying at the Watching Post. 0:19:54.960 --> 0:19:57.400 So like Ashley Parker, who I think is very. 0:19:57.280 --> 0:20:01.359 Talented, is going to the Atlantic, and even like the 0:20:01.480 --> 0:20:05.360 Wall Street Journal, which is owned by pretty much one 0:20:05.359 --> 0:20:08.480 of the sort of architects of trump Ism. But at 0:20:08.560 --> 0:20:11.760 least you know, they have done some good reporting. I 0:20:11.920 --> 0:20:15.199 personally have to separate the weed from the shaft when 0:20:15.280 --> 0:20:18.560 it comes to because I just think without this reporting, 0:20:18.600 --> 0:20:19.200 we're sunk. 0:20:19.760 --> 0:20:20.000 Yeah. 0:20:20.040 --> 0:20:23.120 I think the place where you and I differ is 0:20:23.280 --> 0:20:27.520 whether that has to exist or whether it should exist 0:20:27.840 --> 0:20:33.040 in a consolidated, large scale newspaper format. I mean, I 0:20:33.040 --> 0:20:34.879 would say one of the strengths of the Atlantic is 0:20:34.880 --> 0:20:36.359 that it's actually not a daily. 0:20:36.080 --> 0:20:38.960 Newspaper, right for sure, it's small, yeah, and. 0:20:38.880 --> 0:20:41.800 So like to me, it therefore allows it to do 0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:46.000 reporting in a way that makes it less accountable to 0:20:46.119 --> 0:20:50.040 the day and day day out transactional relationships with you know, 0:20:50.040 --> 0:20:52.880 for example, a Trump Whitehouse. And so that's I think 0:20:53.040 --> 0:20:55.000 probably one of the difference between you and I is 0:20:55.040 --> 0:20:57.720 I wouldn't put the I wouldn't put The Atlantic in 0:20:57.800 --> 0:21:01.159 the bucket of traditional legacy media in the way that 0:21:01.200 --> 0:21:02.640 I would the Washington Post. 0:21:02.440 --> 0:21:02.960 For example. 0:21:03.280 --> 0:21:04.520 Right, but the Washington Post. 0:21:04.600 --> 0:21:08.080 I mean again, there was this letter this week four hundred. 0:21:08.119 --> 0:21:09.840 I mean, all of these editors like. 0:21:10.200 --> 0:21:12.800 Leading with Bezos to just like we need to go 0:21:12.880 --> 0:21:15.960 back to the Watergate Washington Post, and I mean, I 0:21:16.000 --> 0:21:17.160 don't think that's happening. 0:21:17.359 --> 0:21:19.639 But but that's I think my point is that I 0:21:19.680 --> 0:21:22.800 think that the big paradigm shift that we have learned 0:21:22.840 --> 0:21:25.919 after the election is we assumed for many, many years 0:21:26.119 --> 0:21:31.199 that if you had a large news institution that was 0:21:31.440 --> 0:21:35.240 very prominent, very prestigious, and well funded, it would be 0:21:35.240 --> 0:21:38.400 able to stand up to Donald Trump and people like him, 0:21:38.440 --> 0:21:40.240 It would be able to hold people in power account 0:21:40.320 --> 0:21:43.480 and that the problem with smaller independent media is that 0:21:43.520 --> 0:21:45.960 they wouldn't have the resources to fight those fights. And 0:21:46.000 --> 0:21:48.320 what it turns out is it's actually the opposite, because 0:21:48.320 --> 0:21:51.840 it is those large institutions, because they have so many 0:21:51.880 --> 0:21:55.359 holdings that government can touch, they're actually they you know, 0:21:55.520 --> 0:21:58.480 like they are they If you're Disney, okay, you have 0:21:58.640 --> 0:22:01.480 so many pieces of gus of business for the federal government. 0:22:01.480 --> 0:22:03.760 Are you really going to be on Donald Trump's bad side? 0:22:03.840 --> 0:22:06.160 If you are Jeff Bezos? You know, not that I'm 0:22:06.160 --> 0:22:08.479 defending Jeff Bezos or Disney, but I think you know, 0:22:08.680 --> 0:22:10.320 he would say like, I have so many you know, 0:22:10.440 --> 0:22:12.239 or he wouldn't say, but one might say about him, 0:22:12.280 --> 0:22:14.200 you know, he has rockets he wants to launch, he 0:22:14.240 --> 0:22:16.879 has aws services he wants to sell, and so like, 0:22:17.040 --> 0:22:19.200 how much are you willing to be on the bad 0:22:19.240 --> 0:22:23.399 side of a narcissist president, whereas if you are a 0:22:23.560 --> 0:22:27.000 smaller publication or an independent publication, the government has no 0:22:27.080 --> 0:22:29.359 leverage over you. Donald Trump doesn't have any leverage over you, 0:22:29.480 --> 0:22:31.680 and so you can afford to be tougher on them. 0:22:31.760 --> 0:22:32.440 Yeah, agreed. 0:22:32.560 --> 0:22:34.840 And I also think you know this is why we're 0:22:34.880 --> 0:22:36.920 not supposed to have monopolies, right. This is the case 0:22:36.960 --> 0:22:40.480 against monopolies is that if you own everything, you're conflicted 0:22:40.560 --> 0:22:41.160 on everything. 0:22:41.280 --> 0:22:41.680 Correct. 0:22:41.720 --> 0:22:44.080 That's I think you've actually just put it probably better 0:22:44.119 --> 0:22:46.960 than I could. It is classic anti trust theory and 0:22:47.000 --> 0:22:48.240 why monopolies are bad. 0:22:48.400 --> 0:22:51.240 Yeah. I mean, how down on democrats are you? 0:22:51.280 --> 0:22:53.760 Because this has been a very tough three months for me, 0:22:53.920 --> 0:22:57.639 and I have cycled through self blame other blame. I 0:22:57.680 --> 0:23:00.080 think of you as very tough, and that is one 0:22:59.960 --> 0:23:02.320 of the many things I respect about you. You are 0:23:02.600 --> 0:23:04.800 very tough in a way that a lot of Democrats 0:23:04.840 --> 0:23:07.439 are not. I mean, do you think democrats come around? 0:23:07.480 --> 0:23:10.520 Are you furious with them? What is your takeaway. 0:23:10.040 --> 0:23:10.560 From all of this? 0:23:11.119 --> 0:23:11.359 Yeah? 0:23:11.440 --> 0:23:14.439 So I have two takes on it. The first is 0:23:14.600 --> 0:23:16.720 I am less down on democrats than a lot of 0:23:16.800 --> 0:23:20.119 people are. I think that the internal finger pointing between 0:23:20.160 --> 0:23:22.320 whether it was the fault of this faction or that faction, 0:23:22.440 --> 0:23:24.600 or this tactic or that tactic or this campaign. I 0:23:24.640 --> 0:23:28.239 think is like just wasted time. And I think that 0:23:28.600 --> 0:23:30.879 you can find a million reasons when you lose a 0:23:30.880 --> 0:23:33.399 close election to blame everybody, and when you win a 0:23:33.440 --> 0:23:35.600 close election, you can vidamilitary reason to credit everyone, and 0:23:35.600 --> 0:23:37.119 I don't think that gets you anywhere. So like, I 0:23:37.720 --> 0:23:39.320 have no time for that. And I think that there 0:23:39.359 --> 0:23:41.520 are you know, people who say Democrats are not tough. 0:23:41.560 --> 0:23:43.280 You know, I would point out it is hard to 0:23:43.320 --> 0:23:46.120 look at what the Democratic Party did last summer, which 0:23:46.240 --> 0:23:49.159 was you know, whether it was Nancy Pelissia, Chuck schumera King, 0:23:49.200 --> 0:23:53.159 Jeffers or whomever you know that you know went to 0:23:53.240 --> 0:23:55.720 President Biden and showed him the handwriting on the walls. 0:23:55.800 --> 0:23:57.480 It's hard to say that's not a tough party. And 0:23:57.520 --> 0:23:59.920 I think if you look at Democrats' ability to hold 0:24:00.240 --> 0:24:03.840 their caucuses in close legislative chambers and the House, in 0:24:03.880 --> 0:24:05.840 the Senate, charges say that they're up tough. I think 0:24:05.840 --> 0:24:09.000 that where that there are places where people think I 0:24:09.040 --> 0:24:11.840 am tough. It's because I am willing to use every 0:24:11.920 --> 0:24:14.879 legal means in every legal tactic to protect democracy and 0:24:14.880 --> 0:24:17.800 to advance my client's interests. And you know, I listened 0:24:17.880 --> 0:24:21.600 to Merrick Garland's closing remarks to the Department of Justice, 0:24:21.640 --> 0:24:24.880 and frankly, I couldn't disagree with him more. I mean, 0:24:25.160 --> 0:24:27.520 he basically said that the strength of the Department of 0:24:27.680 --> 0:24:30.280 Justice and this is you know, his quote, it's the 0:24:30.320 --> 0:24:32.639 obligation of each of us to follow our norms, not 0:24:32.680 --> 0:24:34.920 only when it's easy, but when it's hard, especially when 0:24:34.920 --> 0:24:37.040 it's hard, And he says, it's the obligation each of 0:24:37.080 --> 0:24:39.959 us sudhere to our norms even when, especially when circumstances 0:24:40.000 --> 0:24:42.119 we face are not normal. And like you know, I 0:24:42.119 --> 0:24:44.960 wrote this piece for Democracy Doc about you know, bringing 0:24:45.359 --> 0:24:48.199 norms to a Trump fight. Like you know, I have 0:24:48.280 --> 0:24:50.520 no patience for that. We cannot have a situation in 0:24:50.520 --> 0:24:52.720 which Democrats are held to one standard and hold themselves 0:24:52.760 --> 0:24:55.280 to one standard, and Republicans are held to no standard 0:24:55.400 --> 0:24:57.280 and hold themselves to no standard. Like we have to 0:24:57.280 --> 0:24:59.119 fight with the tools as they are, not as we 0:24:59.160 --> 0:25:02.040 wish they are. They it means following the law. You know, 0:25:02.119 --> 0:25:04.600 we don't cross the line. But the idea that somehow 0:25:04.720 --> 0:25:08.640 norms are the guideposts here, I just reject. 0:25:08.400 --> 0:25:12.080 Yeah, correct, Mark, thank you, thank you, thank. 0:25:11.800 --> 0:25:13.080 You, thank you. 0:25:15.440 --> 0:25:18.520 Michael Waldman is the President and CEO of the Brennan 0:25:18.560 --> 0:25:21.720 Center for Justice at the NYU School of Law. 0:25:22.000 --> 0:25:24.440 Welcome back to Fast Politics, Michael. 0:25:24.760 --> 0:25:27.520 Thank you so much for having me in these interesting times. 0:25:27.920 --> 0:25:30.440 Yeah, I'm so delighted to have you. And the first thing. 0:25:30.359 --> 0:25:31.800 I want to talk to you about is you run 0:25:31.840 --> 0:25:35.159 the Brennan Center. You guys, just do God's work. We 0:25:35.359 --> 0:25:38.840 are Monday will be the first day of Trump two 0:25:38.880 --> 0:25:42.920 point zero. He is planning shock and awe. How can 0:25:42.960 --> 0:25:47.240 the courts save the American people from or mitigate some 0:25:47.720 --> 0:25:49.400 of the shock and the awe. 0:25:49.680 --> 0:25:53.040 So it's important, I think, to remember that shock and 0:25:53.160 --> 0:25:57.240 awe didn't work out so well in Iraq for the 0:25:57.280 --> 0:25:59.840 American side when we swept in. 0:26:00.280 --> 0:26:03.440 The wording is suspect, Yes, continues sorry. 0:26:03.400 --> 0:26:05.480 Well, the wording is suspect. But it's a lot of 0:26:05.520 --> 0:26:08.520 the same idea. When they say they are going to 0:26:08.920 --> 0:26:13.320 issue a slew of executive orders on the first day, 0:26:13.520 --> 0:26:17.200 in the first hour of the new presidency, in part, 0:26:17.200 --> 0:26:19.960 they're trying to imprint the idea that they're all action 0:26:20.119 --> 0:26:23.400 and changing everything. In fact, a lot of the executive 0:26:23.480 --> 0:26:27.400 orders that any president's issue don't have nearly as much 0:26:27.520 --> 0:26:29.080 teeth as legislation. 0:26:29.520 --> 0:26:31.120 That's a really important point. 0:26:31.480 --> 0:26:33.439 I worked in the White House, as you know, for 0:26:33.480 --> 0:26:36.320 Bill Clinton on the day he took office in nineteen 0:26:36.359 --> 0:26:39.320 ninety three, and we also issued a bunch of executive orders. 0:26:39.480 --> 0:26:42.080 Some of them are really meaningful, and some of them 0:26:42.080 --> 0:26:44.960 are kind of like press releases with a. 0:26:44.920 --> 0:26:47.720 Governmentber Well, exactly, what we do know is. 0:26:47.680 --> 0:26:49.760 That he is going to try to use all the 0:26:49.880 --> 0:26:55.440 levers of executive power to do mass deportation, to politicize 0:26:55.800 --> 0:26:58.840 the government, to do a whole bunch of other things 0:26:59.200 --> 0:27:02.840 that he tried has talked about very openly NonStop for 0:27:02.920 --> 0:27:05.439 months and months and months. Some of these are at 0:27:05.440 --> 0:27:07.679 the very beginning of the administration. In the answer to 0:27:07.720 --> 0:27:11.000 your question, presidents have a lot of power. Unfortunately, a 0:27:11.040 --> 0:27:13.919 lot of the existing laws give them even more power 0:27:13.960 --> 0:27:16.040 than they should have. But a lot of the things 0:27:16.080 --> 0:27:18.560 they say they want to do are illegal, and courts 0:27:18.640 --> 0:27:20.400 should step up. And it's going to be a real 0:27:20.440 --> 0:27:21.960 test for the courts and whether they. 0:27:21.840 --> 0:27:25.800 Step up, Yeah, especially because they're the only lever left. 0:27:26.040 --> 0:27:28.399 I do think that that's a really good point, and 0:27:28.640 --> 0:27:33.400 we saw this reporting from Politico about how he's already saying, 0:27:33.480 --> 0:27:35.760 like the mass deportation, he can't do it because he 0:27:35.800 --> 0:27:38.080 doesn't have the money. Right, Congress has to give the 0:27:38.200 --> 0:27:41.359 money in order to pay. I mean, mass deportation is 0:27:41.359 --> 0:27:43.680 wildly expensive, correct. 0:27:43.600 --> 0:27:48.560 Right, it's wildly expensive. There isn't actually a massive federal 0:27:48.840 --> 0:27:52.320 internal police force that can just instantaneously be mobilized to 0:27:52.359 --> 0:27:55.480 go seize people off the streets and things like that, 0:27:55.720 --> 0:27:59.000 as Politico and other outlets have reported, some of the 0:27:59.040 --> 0:28:02.600 steps that any president can take that's more kind of 0:28:02.680 --> 0:28:05.560 clearly within their own purview, or things like what they 0:28:05.600 --> 0:28:07.720 do at the border. Look, there are a lot of 0:28:07.760 --> 0:28:10.120 steps that Donald Trump has said he's going to take 0:28:10.320 --> 0:28:13.119 on mass deportation that we just have every reason to 0:28:13.160 --> 0:28:15.479 expect he'll do some version of some of them. He 0:28:15.560 --> 0:28:19.320 has said that he will take away the temporary protected status, 0:28:19.520 --> 0:28:24.080 say for Venezuela and Haitian immigrants, that enables these people 0:28:24.320 --> 0:28:27.800 to work legally in the United States while their immigration 0:28:27.920 --> 0:28:31.280 claims are being assessed. Taking that away would have a 0:28:31.359 --> 0:28:33.840 huge impact on a lot of people. He has said 0:28:33.840 --> 0:28:36.919 he will declare an emergency at the border to enable 0:28:37.000 --> 0:28:40.040 him to build his wall. And do other kinds of things. 0:28:40.280 --> 0:28:43.840 Presidents have a lot of power to declare emergencies. Now, 0:28:43.960 --> 0:28:46.600 in his first term, he tried to declare an emergency 0:28:46.920 --> 0:28:51.400 and use that fact to reallocate money from a different 0:28:51.400 --> 0:28:54.160 department to pay for building his wall, and that was 0:28:54.200 --> 0:28:57.320 actually unsuccessful. So, you know, even though there is a 0:28:57.360 --> 0:29:00.640 lot of power presidents have, there are still restricts in 0:29:00.680 --> 0:29:03.720 some cases. And those of us who who want to 0:29:03.840 --> 0:29:05.440 stand up for the rule of law, those of us 0:29:05.600 --> 0:29:08.160 who think the courts need to do their part, have 0:29:08.200 --> 0:29:08.840 a job to do. 0:29:09.080 --> 0:29:11.480 Yeah. One of the things I'm struck by is the 0:29:11.560 --> 0:29:13.200 Muslim ban, right. 0:29:13.400 --> 0:29:16.160 Right, Remember that was the very beginning. Yeah, you know, 0:29:16.280 --> 0:29:18.320 this is one of the things where they probably have 0:29:18.440 --> 0:29:21.520 learned their lessons maybe on some of what they did 0:29:21.560 --> 0:29:24.440 wrong the first time. So you know, you remember in 0:29:24.440 --> 0:29:26.840 twice sixteen he said we're going to ban all Muslims 0:29:26.840 --> 0:29:29.120 from coming into the United States till we find out 0:29:29.160 --> 0:29:31.640 what's going on. Very early on, a few days into 0:29:31.680 --> 0:29:34.640 his term, he issued a travel ban from a bunch 0:29:34.640 --> 0:29:38.440 of countries that were Muslim majority. Courts very quickly started 0:29:38.480 --> 0:29:41.840 blocking that from going into effect, if you remember, But 0:29:42.000 --> 0:29:44.720 like a lot of lawyers rushed to Kennedy Airport. 0:29:44.880 --> 0:29:45.920 I do remember to. 0:29:46.040 --> 0:29:49.200 Represent people who were in limbo. But what the courts 0:29:49.360 --> 0:29:53.080 then said, what John Roberts and his very conservative Supreme 0:29:53.120 --> 0:29:56.000 Court said then was well, you didn't cross the tea 0:29:56.040 --> 0:29:58.480 and dout the I right and didn't follow the procedures. 0:29:58.520 --> 0:30:01.760 You didn't follow the Administrative Act. But then they eventually 0:30:01.840 --> 0:30:03.720 let him do what he wanted to do in a 0:30:03.760 --> 0:30:06.360 case called Trump versus Hawaii. In other words, where the 0:30:06.400 --> 0:30:08.480 courts were willing to stand up to him the first 0:30:08.480 --> 0:30:12.480 time was to make them follow the procedures. It may 0:30:12.480 --> 0:30:15.480 be that this time they're going to be more fastidious 0:30:15.640 --> 0:30:18.120 about following the procedures. One of the things that we've 0:30:18.160 --> 0:30:20.240 looked at a lot. You know, presidents have a lot 0:30:20.240 --> 0:30:24.120 of power to do immigration policy, and that includes deportations. 0:30:24.120 --> 0:30:26.240 I mean Barack Obama, you know, deported a lot of 0:30:26.280 --> 0:30:29.640 people for example. It's part of the mix of immigration policies. 0:30:29.880 --> 0:30:32.240 What Trump has said he wants to do is use 0:30:32.600 --> 0:30:36.280 laws that are incredibly abusive of power and give him 0:30:36.400 --> 0:30:38.960 vast authority. And a lot of these laws that haven't 0:30:38.960 --> 0:30:41.560 been used very much he wants to use, He said, 0:30:41.640 --> 0:30:45.120 the Insurrection Act of eighteen oh four to enable him 0:30:45.160 --> 0:30:48.040 to use the military domestically to do some of this stuff. 0:30:48.080 --> 0:30:51.040 He wants to use the National Emergencies Act. He says 0:30:51.040 --> 0:30:52.760 he wants to use. He talked about this on the 0:30:52.760 --> 0:30:55.600 campaign trail. He wants to use the remaining part of 0:30:55.680 --> 0:30:59.480 the Alien and Sedition Act. Yes, which I know I 0:30:59.560 --> 0:31:01.880 know about you. I last thought about that in high 0:31:01.880 --> 0:31:02.520 school history. 0:31:03.160 --> 0:31:03.400 Right. 0:31:03.560 --> 0:31:06.160 That is something we actually had someone from the Brennan 0:31:06.240 --> 0:31:08.880 Center on Because you have someone who has just focused 0:31:08.880 --> 0:31:11.840 on that now and writing about it, and she's right. 0:31:12.040 --> 0:31:14.240 We have a lawyer who was working away on this 0:31:14.440 --> 0:31:18.320 Alien Enemies Act who are like, really, like, isn't that 0:31:18.440 --> 0:31:19.960 rather obscure thing that'd be spent? 0:31:20.360 --> 0:31:23.280 No, but it's not. It's in Project twenty twenty five. 0:31:23.400 --> 0:31:26.360 I mean, what's so interesting about this Trump two point zero, 0:31:26.440 --> 0:31:29.400 and I mean this in only the most pejorative sense, 0:31:29.840 --> 0:31:33.000 is that they have taken all of these like zombie 0:31:33.080 --> 0:31:37.440 laws like this and also comstock, and also that they've 0:31:37.480 --> 0:31:39.160 repurposed for modern use. 0:31:39.360 --> 0:31:42.280 So you know, you have to be at war. Right. 0:31:42.320 --> 0:31:45.400 The last time this happened was World War two with Japanese. 0:31:45.480 --> 0:31:49.200 Before that, World War One, Before that, the War of eighteen. 0:31:48.960 --> 0:31:51.680 Twelve, the British supporters were being interned. Yeah. 0:31:51.840 --> 0:31:55.320 Right, So this sort of legal framework for it seems 0:31:55.480 --> 0:31:57.920 very very shaky. I think we both think and we 0:31:57.960 --> 0:32:00.240 actually had a conversation about this, where we think he's 0:32:00.240 --> 0:32:02.320 going to try to declare war on the cartels. 0:32:02.520 --> 0:32:04.040 I don't see how you do that. 0:32:04.480 --> 0:32:07.200 So that's one where he's on very weak legal ground 0:32:07.280 --> 0:32:10.000 if he tries to use it. The Alien This Sedition Acts, 0:32:10.000 --> 0:32:12.280 for those who missed that day in high school history, 0:32:12.400 --> 0:32:15.240 were these laws that are considered some of the worst 0:32:15.320 --> 0:32:18.040 laws in American history. They were passed in the John 0:32:18.120 --> 0:32:22.120 Adams administration and they cracked down on free speech and dissent. 0:32:22.440 --> 0:32:25.880 Thomas Jefferson called them the result of the reign of witches, 0:32:26.440 --> 0:32:30.120 and they really discredited it. And the only one of 0:32:30.160 --> 0:32:32.720 those laws that's still in the books is this one. 0:32:32.760 --> 0:32:35.440 And you're right, it's only been used three times, and 0:32:35.840 --> 0:32:38.080 the last time it was used was during World War 0:32:38.160 --> 0:32:41.320 two to in turn Japanese nationals who had people who 0:32:41.320 --> 0:32:44.280 had not gotten their American citizenship yet. But it's pretty 0:32:44.280 --> 0:32:47.200 clear in the language that it has to be against 0:32:47.320 --> 0:32:50.560 a government we're at declared war with or the result 0:32:50.640 --> 0:32:53.520 of an invasion so you know that was the case 0:32:53.560 --> 0:32:56.560 when we were attacked at say, at Pearl Harbor. We 0:32:56.600 --> 0:32:58.800 had an actual declaration of war in World War Two. 0:32:58.800 --> 0:33:01.000 It was the last time we had one. But you know, 0:33:01.040 --> 0:33:04.800 we're not at war with Venezuela and the cartels are 0:33:04.840 --> 0:33:07.720 not a government. They may say, I suppose, oh, well, 0:33:07.760 --> 0:33:10.240 it's an invasion. You know, they have all these immigrants, 0:33:10.400 --> 0:33:13.640 but it's pretty illegal. The problem is this is where 0:33:13.680 --> 0:33:16.280 we need the courts to step up. In the past, 0:33:16.720 --> 0:33:20.120 courts have often said about this particular law, oh well, 0:33:20.160 --> 0:33:22.240 you know, this doesn't seem right, but this is a 0:33:22.240 --> 0:33:25.240 political question. That's actually up to the president to decide 0:33:25.360 --> 0:33:27.960 these things. Now, a lot of those rulings were a 0:33:28.000 --> 0:33:30.640 long time ago, before courts were in the business of 0:33:30.920 --> 0:33:33.760 enforcing civil liberties the way they do now. So you know, 0:33:34.000 --> 0:33:37.120 that one I think is really illegal, and honestly, I 0:33:37.160 --> 0:33:39.080 think that it would surprise me if they really went 0:33:39.160 --> 0:33:41.480 to that one, because because that one is on such 0:33:41.480 --> 0:33:43.800 shaky ground. A lot of these other things are things 0:33:43.800 --> 0:33:47.600 where presidents have considerable authority, and people don't realize. The 0:33:47.680 --> 0:33:51.480 National Guard is a military force controlled by states by 0:33:51.480 --> 0:33:55.360 the governor, but presidents can federalize the National Guard, and 0:33:55.360 --> 0:33:57.960 that has happened. You know, to put in nineteen ninety 0:33:58.040 --> 0:34:01.280 two to deal with violence and life Los Angeles example, 0:34:01.360 --> 0:34:04.080 it would be quite extraordinary to do that to deal 0:34:04.080 --> 0:34:06.600 with what is a lot of immigration, but it's basically 0:34:06.640 --> 0:34:07.720 an immigration issue. 0:34:07.840 --> 0:34:09.880 Yeah, I think this is where we're going to be 0:34:09.960 --> 0:34:12.880 for the next four years. How many nights have you 0:34:13.000 --> 0:34:15.080 lost sleep thinking about Russ Fodd? 0:34:15.440 --> 0:34:18.880 So you know, first of all, Donald Trump said during 0:34:18.960 --> 0:34:22.680 the campaign that he'd never heard of Project twenty twenty five. 0:34:23.440 --> 0:34:25.480 He didn't know these people where you'd never heard of 0:34:25.480 --> 0:34:27.880 this heritage what do you call it? The Heritage Foundation? 0:34:28.160 --> 0:34:32.000 It was so transparently absurd. It was like that in 0:34:32.040 --> 0:34:33.880 the Marx Brothers movie. You know who you're going to 0:34:33.920 --> 0:34:35.840 believe me or your own eyes. First of all, I 0:34:35.880 --> 0:34:38.920 happened to go to Milwaukee of the weekend of the 0:34:38.960 --> 0:34:42.920 Republican Convention for a family wedding, not because of the convention. 0:34:43.160 --> 0:34:45.839 While Trump was saying, oh what, I never heard of 0:34:45.920 --> 0:34:47.919 any of these people. I never heard of Project twenty 0:34:47.920 --> 0:34:50.160 twenty five. When you got to the airport, it was 0:34:50.200 --> 0:34:54.160 a floor to ceiling display saying the Heritage Foundation welcomes 0:34:54.200 --> 0:34:58.000 you to the Republican National Commission. The corporate sponsor was 0:34:58.080 --> 0:35:01.400 Project twenty twenty five. Russ Vault was one of the 0:35:01.640 --> 0:35:04.239 minds behind one of the authors of Project twenty twenty five. 0:35:04.360 --> 0:35:07.080 He was a senior official in the Trump White House 0:35:07.160 --> 0:35:10.719 the first time. He is smart, he is adept at 0:35:10.840 --> 0:35:14.520 fiddling with the levers of government, and he is extraordinarily 0:35:14.880 --> 0:35:18.160 ideological and even extreme in what he wants. He wants 0:35:18.200 --> 0:35:21.600 a religious approach to government. He said, we I believe 0:35:21.800 --> 0:35:23.520 tell me if I'm mixing him up with one of 0:35:23.520 --> 0:35:25.640 the other boys, I believe he's the one who said 0:35:25.640 --> 0:35:27.439 we live in a post constitutional era. 0:35:27.800 --> 0:35:29.759 He is, he is, he is, that's him. Yeah. 0:35:29.960 --> 0:35:32.399 At the Brandon Center where I work, we actually have 0:35:32.560 --> 0:35:36.239 the Constitution on the wall. So I don't think most 0:35:36.280 --> 0:35:38.960 Americans think or want to believe that we're in a 0:35:38.960 --> 0:35:41.520 post constitutional era. But he is one of the people 0:35:41.520 --> 0:35:45.160 who has a very radical legal view of what government 0:35:45.160 --> 0:35:47.040 ought to be allowed to do. That is much more 0:35:47.239 --> 0:35:52.319 assertive than traditional conservatives, even sort of federalist society conservatives 0:35:52.480 --> 0:35:52.919 have had. 0:35:53.120 --> 0:35:56.160 Yeah, and it is interesting to me to put so. 0:35:56.280 --> 0:35:59.880 He had been in omb before Office of Management and Budget, 0:36:00.040 --> 0:36:02.600 and he did in Trump one point zero do things 0:36:02.719 --> 0:36:07.160 like hold money that was supposed to go to federal agencies, right, 0:36:07.200 --> 0:36:08.960 and was supposed to go to Ukraine. That was the 0:36:08.960 --> 0:36:13.959 most famous of his alliances into this, but one you 0:36:14.040 --> 0:36:17.480 sort of dig into Project twenty twenty five, there's sort 0:36:17.520 --> 0:36:19.000 of a lot of like, this is how we can 0:36:19.040 --> 0:36:22.080 get people to do this, and it's by holding the money, 0:36:22.200 --> 0:36:24.600 which is really not what the president is supposed to 0:36:24.600 --> 0:36:25.480 be doing at all. 0:36:25.600 --> 0:36:28.120 Right, it violates when you say we're in a post 0:36:28.160 --> 0:36:30.080 constitutional era. One of the ways that would be post 0:36:30.160 --> 0:36:33.480 constitutional is the Constitution, you know, articularly it's checking cons 0:36:33.840 --> 0:36:35.719 You talked about the zombie laws. I think it's a 0:36:35.760 --> 0:36:38.200 really good point when you look at the Comstock actor. 0:36:38.280 --> 0:36:40.640 Some of these things, they're really talking about the social 0:36:40.760 --> 0:36:43.319 values of the eighteen hundreds. A lot of these other 0:36:43.400 --> 0:36:48.040 things are trying to undo the restraints on abuse of 0:36:48.200 --> 0:36:52.480 presidential power that were enacted over the last fifty sixty 0:36:52.600 --> 0:36:56.440 seventy years after Nixon. After Nixon, so one of the 0:36:56.520 --> 0:37:00.120 big issues at the time of Nixon's impeachment was what 0:37:00.200 --> 0:37:03.960 was called impoundment. He claimed then the right to not 0:37:04.160 --> 0:37:07.520 spend money that Congress had passed the law, saying he 0:37:07.600 --> 0:37:10.120 had to spend the president, the government had to spend, 0:37:10.200 --> 0:37:12.560 and it was considered, it was found on constitutional it 0:37:12.600 --> 0:37:14.800 was the basis for some of the charges of the 0:37:14.960 --> 0:37:17.719 abuse of power, and all kinds of budget rules were 0:37:17.719 --> 0:37:19.840 put in place to make sure that this couldn't happen. 0:37:20.040 --> 0:37:22.480 A lot of people, I guess on the right think 0:37:22.560 --> 0:37:26.960 this was all a grand mistake. You see this also 0:37:27.040 --> 0:37:30.360 with the immunity decision by the Supreme Court going back 0:37:30.840 --> 0:37:35.640 that really went back to again Nixon, when courts ruled 0:37:35.719 --> 0:37:39.719 in the cases about Nixon's tapes and other things that oh, no, 0:37:39.760 --> 0:37:42.560 there are restrictions. You know, the law does apply to presidents. 0:37:42.960 --> 0:37:46.200 Presidents are subject to criminal law. Certainly after they're in office, 0:37:46.200 --> 0:37:49.600 they're subjects to criminal law. And again there's a strain 0:37:49.840 --> 0:37:52.640 of thought on the right that's kind of a monarchical 0:37:53.400 --> 0:37:56.200 approach that thinks that it was a big mistake to 0:37:56.480 --> 0:37:59.759 have these kinds of things that embedded the presidency in 0:37:59.800 --> 0:38:01.680 the rule of law. And you know, they call it 0:38:01.719 --> 0:38:04.640 in some instances they call it the unitary executive theory, 0:38:04.680 --> 0:38:08.000 with basically say everybody in the whole executive branch works 0:38:08.120 --> 0:38:12.360 for the present personally. So Rustvot saying in effect, It 0:38:12.400 --> 0:38:14.759 doesn't matter what Congress does. We're just going to spend 0:38:14.800 --> 0:38:16.400 the money how we want to spend it. They're going 0:38:16.480 --> 0:38:19.279 to put this kind of like fancy legal jargon and 0:38:19.400 --> 0:38:21.680 justification for it. But it's just a power grab. 0:38:22.000 --> 0:38:24.640 Yeah, no, exactly, it's just a power grab. 0:38:24.920 --> 0:38:28.640 It's extra constitutional or whatever they're calling it. 0:38:28.120 --> 0:38:30.160 It is definitely because. 0:38:30.280 --> 0:38:33.600 There's this larger idea that what trump Ism is trying 0:38:33.600 --> 0:38:38.080 to do is sort of repeal the entire century since Nixon, 0:38:38.200 --> 0:38:41.839 not century, but the fifty sixty years since nixton. That 0:38:42.000 --> 0:38:44.960 this is and even before that, that's sort of every 0:38:45.120 --> 0:38:48.240 the social safety net, everything since sort of nineteen twenty 0:38:48.320 --> 0:38:51.759 nine on. Is really the last hundred years that Trumpism 0:38:51.800 --> 0:38:53.959 wants to repeal the last hundred years. Do you see 0:38:53.960 --> 0:38:56.600 that legally? Do you see that as something that could 0:38:56.680 --> 0:38:57.440 be possible? 0:38:58.000 --> 0:39:01.319 You know, I figure right that that is that is 0:39:01.840 --> 0:39:04.240 something that you see across a lot of these areas. 0:39:04.640 --> 0:39:08.279 And there are ways in which this has already played out, 0:39:08.360 --> 0:39:12.799 not just with Trump's you know, personal idiosyncrasies, but a 0:39:12.800 --> 0:39:17.440 lot of the efforts by the conservative legal movement leading 0:39:17.480 --> 0:39:20.279 up to this, including at the US Supreme Court. So 0:39:20.760 --> 0:39:23.400 give you an example, for a lot of the country's 0:39:23.480 --> 0:39:26.160 history and mal you know, I wrote a book on 0:39:26.200 --> 0:39:28.160 the history of the Supreme Court that talks about this. 0:39:28.600 --> 0:39:31.400 From a lot of the country's history, the Supreme Court 0:39:31.480 --> 0:39:35.120 saw its role as being kind of to stop progress. 0:39:35.600 --> 0:39:38.440 It was often a very conservative force, and in the 0:39:38.480 --> 0:39:42.439 early twentieth century, what the justices of that time thought 0:39:42.440 --> 0:39:46.160 their job was was to stop government from acting, from 0:39:46.280 --> 0:39:51.560 regulating worker hours or public safety, you know, a lot 0:39:51.640 --> 0:39:54.160 of the things, to protect people. And they would over 0:39:54.160 --> 0:39:57.520 and over again make these constitutional rulings to stop government 0:39:57.520 --> 0:40:00.160 from acting. At the beginning of the twentieth century, this 0:40:00.239 --> 0:40:02.800 was the basis of a lot of fighting between Theodore 0:40:02.920 --> 0:40:06.359 Roosevelt and the Court, between the Progressives as they were known, 0:40:06.360 --> 0:40:09.080 and then and then ultimately Franklin Roosevelt. He fought when 0:40:09.080 --> 0:40:11.799 the Court was trying to strike down the New Deal, 0:40:12.440 --> 0:40:16.280 Roosevelt threatened to try to get them expanded, packing the court. 0:40:16.400 --> 0:40:18.759 And what happened was in nineteen thirty seven, in the 0:40:18.800 --> 0:40:20.960 middle of all is the Supreme Court back down and 0:40:21.000 --> 0:40:23.279 they said, you know what, government agencies, you can do 0:40:23.360 --> 0:40:26.279 your thing. You can regulate the economy, you can protect people. 0:40:26.280 --> 0:40:29.399 We're not going to pretend it's some constitutional issue. This 0:40:29.480 --> 0:40:31.680 is how we have a modern country. There are some 0:40:31.760 --> 0:40:34.399 people who think it was a grave mistake. They call 0:40:34.440 --> 0:40:37.080 it the Constitution in exile. They think it went into 0:40:37.120 --> 0:40:39.719 exile in nineteen thirty seven. One of the people who 0:40:39.760 --> 0:40:42.080 thinks that, there was a New York Times article about 0:40:42.080 --> 0:40:44.960 twenty years ago in a Times magazine that said, you know, 0:40:45.000 --> 0:40:47.759 here's this kind of kooky idea, and here are some 0:40:47.840 --> 0:40:50.320 of the people who believe it. Here's a young judge 0:40:50.320 --> 0:40:53.040 you've never heard of named John Roberts. 0:40:53.280 --> 0:40:55.360 Oh no, that's not good. 0:40:55.760 --> 0:40:59.080 Wonder well, we'll ever come of him. And so the 0:40:59.200 --> 0:41:02.600 Supreme Court, of several opinions of the last few years, 0:41:02.920 --> 0:41:05.880 has for the first time in at least half a century, 0:41:06.120 --> 0:41:11.520 made constitutional claims to basically limit the power of government 0:41:11.520 --> 0:41:14.839 agencies to do regulation on the environment and on other 0:41:14.880 --> 0:41:17.400 things like that. And that is not just Donald Trump. 0:41:17.560 --> 0:41:20.480 That's the kind of thing you see across the government. 0:41:20.600 --> 0:41:24.600 Yeah, now, thank you, Michael, really appreciate you. And this 0:41:24.880 --> 0:41:27.960 was really so Again, We're going to be using this 0:41:28.000 --> 0:41:29.600 word a lot for the next four years. 0:41:29.719 --> 0:41:30.120 Chilling. 0:41:30.560 --> 0:41:33.440 It's chilling. But remember this is a scary time. But 0:41:33.560 --> 0:41:37.080 the laws of political gravity have not been repealed. You know, 0:41:37.160 --> 0:41:39.319 Donald Trump is now going to have countries, not just 0:41:39.360 --> 0:41:41.480 going to be true thing about things. He's going to 0:41:41.480 --> 0:41:44.080 have control of the government, of the executive branch. There'll 0:41:44.120 --> 0:41:47.760 be consequences. And while it's hard, there are many ways 0:41:47.880 --> 0:41:50.080 that if there are biass of power, that we all 0:41:50.120 --> 0:41:51.480 have the ability to push back. 0:41:51.800 --> 0:41:54.440 Right, all right, true, thank you. 0:41:55.239 --> 0:42:01.640 Thank you, No moment, Jesse Cannon. 0:42:02.200 --> 0:42:05.359 So, Molly, you may remember the last secessionist movement, which 0:42:05.440 --> 0:42:09.520 was the Greater Idaho SECESSIONUS movement that didn't quite get 0:42:09.520 --> 0:42:12.080 off the ground because well, it was pretty stupid to 0:42:12.400 --> 0:42:17.680 bring California, Oregon, and Washington into Idaho, a state that 0:42:18.320 --> 0:42:20.160 isn't doing so hot. But now we have one that's 0:42:20.160 --> 0:42:23.320 even stupider, which is seceding from Illinois. What are you 0:42:23.360 --> 0:42:23.879 seeing here? 0:42:24.440 --> 0:42:27.080 Yes, cis from Illinois. Again. 0:42:27.560 --> 0:42:29.440 I just want to point this out for a second 0:42:29.480 --> 0:42:34.040 because I think this is worth mentioning for just a 0:42:34.320 --> 0:42:39.759 hot minute. As Trump tries to bully California and complains 0:42:39.800 --> 0:42:43.680 about how they want aid and that they're takers. California 0:42:44.000 --> 0:42:47.840 has pays a ton of federal taxes. 0:42:48.400 --> 0:42:49.880 Now they need us. 0:42:50.120 --> 0:42:55.680 If they seceed, We're all completely fucked. Okay, versus a place, 0:42:56.480 --> 0:42:58.640 versus the state of New Illinois. 0:42:58.800 --> 0:43:00.880 They're never going to be able to get this organized. 0:43:00.920 --> 0:43:03.800 But I just want to point out, and if anyone 0:43:03.840 --> 0:43:07.360 can handle something that's stupid, it is one of this 0:43:07.640 --> 0:43:11.239 program's favorite governors, Governor Pritzker. But I just want to 0:43:11.239 --> 0:43:14.239 point out, like no one, you know, the state of 0:43:14.320 --> 0:43:18.479 New Illinois, you know got you know, go with God team. 0:43:18.560 --> 0:43:22.319 If you want to join Indiana, they're happy to have you. 0:43:23.080 --> 0:43:26.840 Instead of succeeding, they should just join us, all right, sure, 0:43:26.960 --> 0:43:28.920 why not? Or we could just make a ton of 0:43:28.960 --> 0:43:32.080 news states. We're looking at DC and Puerto Rico as 0:43:32.200 --> 0:43:36.920 our as our addition. So that's it for this episode 0:43:37.000 --> 0:43:43.080 of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday and 0:43:43.360 --> 0:43:47.360 Saturday to hear the best minds and politics make sense 0:43:47.360 --> 0:43:51.720 of all this chaos. If you enjoy this podcast, please 0:43:51.760 --> 0:43:54.800 send it to a friend and keep the conversation going. 0:43:55.280 --> 0:43:56.440 Thanks for listening.