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Speaker 1: The Volume.

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Speaker 2: Jenkins and Jones is brought to you by FanDuel. It's

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Speaker 2: never been easier to play fantasy on FanDuel. Whether you

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Speaker 2: love basketball, golf, soccer, or any other fantasy sport. There's

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Speaker 2: a contest for every fan fan duel more ways to win.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Jenkins and Jones on the Volume Podcast Network.

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Speaker 2: It's Thursday, September thirtieth, and we've got a pack show

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Speaker 2: for you today. We've got Matt Sullivan on, who just

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Speaker 2: wrote that groundbreaking, earth shattering piece about anti vaxxers in

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Speaker 2: the NBA for Rolling Stone. And we are finishing up

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Speaker 2: book Club two point zero with How the Word has

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Speaker 2: Passed with Clint Smith, so you'll obviously want to stick

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Speaker 2: around for all of that. All right, we're finishing up

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Speaker 2: How the Word is Passed by Clint Smith. We are

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Speaker 2: hoping to have Clint on in the next week or so,

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Speaker 2: so if you do have questions, you know, get those

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Speaker 2: ready to email in. We definitely request that you email

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Speaker 2: them because otherwise we might not see them because we

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Speaker 2: do occasionally log out of the internet and those are

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Speaker 2: times that we need and appreciate.

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Speaker 3: So all right, we read the.

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Speaker 2: New York City and the Gore Island and the epilogue

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Speaker 2: chapters on the book, and before we jump into it,

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Speaker 2: I just wanted to say that John tried to skip

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Speaker 2: out on one of those.

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Speaker 4: Dickcab but I appreciate it because I'm that same type

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Speaker 4: of dickheit.

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Speaker 3: So I got something for your ask.

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Speaker 5: You know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 4: But go ahead, go ahead, tell the people, tell the masses,

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Speaker 4: Tell them masses about my tired ass.

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Speaker 5: And I want to do some sit when I'm tired.

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Speaker 3: Go ahead.

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Speaker 4: Ahead, go ahead, help me a slacker in front of

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Speaker 4: all the people.

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Speaker 2: So John was saying, well, we we'll just talk about

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Speaker 2: you know, New York and Gory. We don't have to

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Speaker 2: we don't have to talk about the epilogue. And Tyler

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Speaker 2: would make my wife proud. He had his English teacher

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Speaker 2: goggles on. He sniffed that ship out post haste.

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Speaker 6: Bro.

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Speaker 7: The eplogue is the hardest in part of the book

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Speaker 7: for me. So when I saw John say thatsh it,

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Speaker 7: I was like, this motherfucker did not read this ship

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Speaker 7: and and and the slick ship. John tried to. This

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Speaker 7: is how you know you're a master procrastinator, bro, because

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Speaker 7: you try.

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Speaker 5: Procrastinator. Let these niggas trying to.

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Speaker 7: Come up with Yeah, you try to put this off

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Speaker 7: and propose a better idea, which is which is a

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Speaker 7: tried and true trick of acrastling because I need the

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Speaker 7: ship all the time. Like, no, we don't need discuss that.

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Speaker 7: We can discuss that with Clinton. I think that's a

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Speaker 7: better discussion. You ain't read it, bro, just say.

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Speaker 2: Us, bro, Like to me, Calvin and Hobship are your

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Speaker 2: two Calvin and Hobbs friends.

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Speaker 7: Bro, all of us are Calvin and this motherfucker bro.

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Speaker 4: In my defense, in my defense, I was working till

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Speaker 4: eleven and was reading till fucking one a M by

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Speaker 4: one am. I first meet the fuck out the book

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Speaker 4: when I saw that it was an epilogue, right, But

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Speaker 4: when Tyler brought that up, I read the epilogue.

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Speaker 5: It was like, this is the last epilogue.

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Speaker 4: You can say, that is the only this is the

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Speaker 4: only epilogue has ever been brought up that you could,

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Speaker 4: like know for sure if I don't want to talk

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Speaker 4: about it, that you know I didn't read the ship,

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Speaker 4: you know what I mean? Because that ship was soul snatching.

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Speaker 4: So my bad, And this is not the nigga to

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Speaker 4: assume anything Clint Smith.

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Speaker 5: You feel me like, of course he got a hard

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Speaker 5: hitding't fucking epilogue. I was definitely tired.

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Speaker 7: It was definitely one of him, because I'm out of

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Speaker 7: what one sent that a motherfucker I would have stayed

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Speaker 7: for the rest of the ship.

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Speaker 5: You feel what I'm saying.

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Speaker 7: I tripp every sentence Clinton Clint Smith wrote in this

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Speaker 7: book matter.

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Speaker 5: Every every single one, every single one. That's a big fact,

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Speaker 5: my bad guy.

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Speaker 3: Let's let's know. That's all good. I just had it

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Speaker 3: because that is what this book club is. I want

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Speaker 3: such a pert for sure. For sure. Okay, let's talk

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Speaker 3: about the NYC chapter.

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Speaker 2: Obviously, the book has taken us through a lot of

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Speaker 2: different parts of the country, but mostly in the South.

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Speaker 2: And I thought this New York chapter was really important

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Speaker 2: because it pulled the lens back on how you know.

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Speaker 2: I think the subhead for it was I thought we

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Speaker 2: were the good guys, or we were the good guys, right,

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Speaker 2: And it was the perfect pullback on Now, if you

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Speaker 2: live in America today, you live in a country whose

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Speaker 2: freeways or whose public schools. Who you know, the infrastructure

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Speaker 2: of the country was bound up in the hundreds.

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Speaker 3: Of years long practice of.

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Speaker 2: Slavery, and that included in New York, where I was

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Speaker 2: frankly shocked to see it was the second biggest slave

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Speaker 2: market in America in New York. Yeah and so, and

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Speaker 2: that the mayor literally proposed in eighteen sixty one seceding

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Speaker 2: from the Union with the Confederacy because of how much

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Speaker 2: it would hurt New York's economy if slavery were to

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Speaker 2: be outlawed across the country. That was like, that was

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Speaker 2: fucking shocking to me.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, you know, keeping with the theme of how you know,

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Speaker 7: Clint Smith goes to places to explore bigger picture here,

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Speaker 7: the New York chapter was about how widespread the economic

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Speaker 7: model of slavery was in America, you know, because you know,

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Speaker 7: most people think, you know, if we're talking about slavery

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Speaker 7: and you see New York, Okay, New York didn't really

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Speaker 7: have it a hand in that. New York was an

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Speaker 7: industrial we know, the whole the whole conflict of ideologies,

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Speaker 7: the industrial North for st agrarian South. But no, New

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Speaker 7: York had their hands all in that shit. You know,

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Speaker 7: slavery was the economic backbone of this country. And I

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Speaker 7: think they said New York was like the largest exporter

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Speaker 7: of cotton.

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Speaker 5: The exports were from cotton, New York's exports.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, so you know, no, you know, keeping with that,

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Speaker 7: you know, Clint went on this tour in New York

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Speaker 7: City with this tour guide who was, you know, kind

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Speaker 7: of walking them through Wall Street and explaining things to them.

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Speaker 7: And I thought the tour guid had a really good

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Speaker 7: point that I'm going to read here. Okay, So you know,

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Speaker 7: they're walking and in I believe, Manhattan, and they're talking,

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Speaker 7: and so the tour guide says, here's a small recap.

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Speaker 7: This is what happens. We divide ourselves up into two sections.

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Speaker 7: Southern Confederate or slave holding states, Northern Union or free states.

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Speaker 7: What are we fighting over? She pauses and scans our faces. Currency?

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Speaker 7: What our currency was going to be moving forward? The

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Speaker 7: United States of America's economy was founded on the currency

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Speaker 7: of selling human livestock. So we're fighting a war over slavery.

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Speaker 7: When we teach the story to our children, adults, and

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Speaker 7: people outside this country, we lie and we say that

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Speaker 7: New York we were never a slave state. We were

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Speaker 7: a free state. Demeris that's the name of the tour

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Speaker 7: guide took a deep breath and shook her head. Guys,

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Speaker 7: what were you just standing in front of She pointed

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Speaker 7: to the market behind us, her voice raising an octave.

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Speaker 7: Where we're standing, She pointed emphatically to the ground beneath her.

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Speaker 7: This is the second largest slave market in the United

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Speaker 7: States of America, the second largest, the first being in Charleston.

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Speaker 7: So yeah, you know, I thought that the tour guid

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Speaker 7: made a really great point because you know, we've the war,

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Speaker 7: the Civil War, of course, was fought over slavery, but

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Speaker 7: there's kind of a misconception that the Union were fighting

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Speaker 7: on a stance of you know, morality of freeing the slaves,

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Speaker 7: when as she sat there, this was a an internal

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Speaker 7: struggle with the country to to decide it's currency going forward,

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Speaker 7: to decide its economic model going forward, and slavery was

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Speaker 7: looking like an unsustainable economic model.

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Speaker 5: There's a paragraph on the read it talks about like

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Speaker 5: slaves being used as collateral.

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Speaker 4: You know what I'm saying, Like the country's largest bank,

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Speaker 4: JP Morgan Chase was the most deeply entwined in the

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Speaker 4: slave trade. A two thousand and five statement from the

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Speaker 4: company read as follows. JP Morgan Chase completed extensive research

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Speaker 4: examining our company's history for any links to slavery. We

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Speaker 4: were reporting that this research found that between eighteen thirty

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Speaker 4: one and eighteen sixty five, two of our predecessor banks,

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Speaker 4: Citizens Bank and Canal Bank and Louisiana accepted approximately thirteen

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Speaker 4: thousand enslaved individuals as collateral on loans and took ownership

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Speaker 4: were approximately undred and fifty of them. When the plantation

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Speaker 4: owners are faulted on the loans, Like you know what

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Speaker 4: I'm saying, Like it with with with cotton being forty

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Speaker 4: percent of the exports of New York, you know, we're

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Speaker 4: taking slaves as coladao weed.

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Speaker 5: They're taking slaves as collateral.

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Speaker 4: I mean, it tripped me out, Like how involved you

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Speaker 4: know what I mean? I knew that, you know, like

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Speaker 4: the country is built on slavery. But you know, you

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Speaker 4: when I like Michael saying, when you think of New York,

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Speaker 4: you don't really necessarily think of that when like you know,

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Speaker 4: it was the foundation of their you know, when I.

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Speaker 2: See my Chase card, I don't think about that, right,

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Speaker 2: you feel me, You feel me, you know what I mean?

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Speaker 5: And they were taking slaves that with today right right, right.

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Speaker 4: But like what's were me out too about that that

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Speaker 4: this chapter was like you know, free talking about this

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Speaker 4: free slaves being captured and dragged to the South by

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Speaker 4: slave catchers, not just you know people who are who escaped,

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Speaker 4: like existing in the world where you're a freeman boarding

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Speaker 4: the freedom and you could be captured and brought to

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Speaker 4: and dragged to the South, you know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 4: Like so and also with the Seneca village existing in

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Speaker 4: like Central Park and how like you know how that

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Speaker 4: mixed gentrification in what's going on now? You know what

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Speaker 4: I'm saying, Like, how like a lot of what's going

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Speaker 4: on in the past is going on now, but just

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Speaker 4: has a different It's it's it's disguised in a different way.

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Speaker 4: It's just not as overt, you know what I'm saying, Like, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: it's I mean.

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Speaker 5: Throughout the book you see that.

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Speaker 4: And I think that's one of the biggest things in

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Speaker 4: the book that I learned was the fact that a

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Speaker 4: lot of this ship you know what I'm saying, that

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Speaker 4: went on now, it's still going on current, I mean,

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Speaker 4: went on in the past, is still going on currently,

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Speaker 4: but it just has a different face, you know what

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Speaker 4: I'm saying.

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Speaker 5: For Sam skintone feel.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, like like another another you know, mind blowing fact

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Speaker 7: that I learned in this chapter was, you know the

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Speaker 7: origins of Wall Street. Wall Street was a street that

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Speaker 7: literally had a wall built by Dutch settlers to protect

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Speaker 7: themselves from Natives after they had slaughtered them and native

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Speaker 7: you know, justifiably we're seeking vengeance. Like, bro, fucking so

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Speaker 7: much of of what this country is built on is

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Speaker 7: like founded in racism. And it's just like every time

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Speaker 7: I learned something like that, it's just like.

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Speaker 2: Wow, and everyone and everyone who is part of that

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Speaker 2: was so convinced of their moral ripeness that it.

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Speaker 3: Was like a cute thing.

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Speaker 2: They're like, yeah, well name it wall Street, Like that's

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Speaker 2: where we built the wall. You know. It's like let's

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Speaker 2: put all the banks there. Like that's the craziest shit

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Speaker 2: to me is that there's.

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Speaker 3: Like and I mean you you hear.

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Speaker 2: About that like in the South with like some of

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Speaker 2: the crazy names of towns that you hear down there

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Speaker 2: or whatever, people calling Singing Rock or whatever. Yeah, like

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Speaker 2: like that's how correct people thought this horrific shit was.

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Speaker 3: Is They're like Wall Street totally.

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Speaker 7: Bro. It's it's it's like the most American thing like, Okay,

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Speaker 7: you came and you took the land from natives, you

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Speaker 7: slaughter them, you built this wall two yourself from them,

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Speaker 7: using labor from enslaved people, and you did all that

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Speaker 7: so you can get capitalism running.

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Speaker 5: You know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 7: It's like the most American shit encapsulated.

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Speaker 5: There's a paragraph that.

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Speaker 4: Talks about, like the Native Americans why they attacked the settlers.

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Speaker 5: I think what they were Dutch settlers, but it's it's

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Speaker 5: I'm gonna just read it.

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Speaker 4: The red people from Manhattan Island cross to the mainland,

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Speaker 4: where a treaty was made with the Dutch, and the

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Speaker 4: place was therefore called the Pipe of Peace in their language,

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Speaker 4: in their language Hoboken, I think that's how you pronounced it.

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Speaker 4: But soon after that, the Dutch governor Keith sent his

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Speaker 4: men out there one night and massacred the entire population

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Speaker 4: after they shook hands, and you know, like with the

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Speaker 4: with the Manhattan people from Manhattan Island, a few of

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Speaker 4: them escaped, but they spread the story of what had

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Speaker 4: been done, and this did much to antagonize all the

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Speaker 4: remaining tribes against all the white settlers. Shortly after New

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Speaker 4: Amsterdam erected a double palisade for defense against it now

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Speaker 4: enraged red neighbors, and this remained for some time the

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Speaker 4: northern limit of the Dutch city.

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Speaker 5: The space between the former walls is.

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Speaker 4: Now called Wall Street, and his spirit is still that

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Speaker 4: of a of a bullwark against the people.

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Speaker 5: Like that, I mean, like that's crazy, that's crazy, that's crazy.

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Speaker 2: All right, we gotta let's jump into Gory Island. So

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Speaker 2: I had never heard this story before, but Gory Island

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Speaker 2: is in Senegal, and it's sort of become this I

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Speaker 2: don't know, like almost like a like fabled is not

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Speaker 2: the right work because it's not positive, but it's become

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Speaker 2: this a place that has sort of a mythology around

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Speaker 2: it as kind of where the slave trade started. That

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Speaker 2: it was there's this place called the House of Slaves

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Speaker 2: where people who had been enslaved were kept before they

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Speaker 2: were put on boats to to cross the ocean. And

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Speaker 2: what was really interested, first of all, I mean, is

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Speaker 2: just horrifying reading about as the whole thing was reading

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Speaker 2: about the actual physical space and imagining yourself or any

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Speaker 2: other human being in that space. But the other thing

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Speaker 2: that I was interesting because Clint is being a historian

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Speaker 2: in this book and not a mythologist is.

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Speaker 3: He also sort of pushed back.

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Speaker 2: On the mythology that it, you know, scholars sort of

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Speaker 2: question the truth of this story about this house you know,

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Speaker 2: had been built up as having had millions of people

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Speaker 2: pass through it, he said, Scholars now think of it

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Speaker 2: more as like thirty three thousand people, which is still

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Speaker 2: obviously unimaginable, but very different than the sort of story

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Speaker 2: that's told. And I his examination of that was interesting

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Speaker 2: because that's sort of the point of the book is

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Speaker 2: we tell our we've been telling ourselves stories about the past,

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Speaker 2: and those stories are frequently not true. And that's not

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Speaker 2: just a like a white American thing, that's like a

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Speaker 2: human thing, you know, you know, And I thought that

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Speaker 2: was interesting that he's saying, even here in Senegal, where

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Speaker 2: this is not something anyone's proud of, there's still been

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Speaker 2: this story told about this place. It's not necessarily true.

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Speaker 2: That was really an interesting creative decision to me.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, definitely agree with that. And that was one of

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Speaker 7: the paragraphs that I wanted to touch on, was he

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Speaker 7: was I'll just go ahead and read it. So he

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Speaker 7: was talking about how he pulled a quote from a

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Speaker 7: sociologist here. Okay, so when this isn't a quote here,

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Speaker 7: but I'll get into that. When considering the story of

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Speaker 7: Goree Island, historical anthropologist Francois Richard finds it helpful to

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Speaker 7: use a term coined by the renowned sociologist Pierre Bordeaux,

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Speaker 7: calling goret a site of sincere fiction. According to Richard,

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Speaker 7: the statistical controversy of Gorey Island cannot and should not

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Speaker 7: undermine its place as a site of memory and reckoning.

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Speaker 7: Richard told The Washington Post that he believes turning the

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Speaker 7: question of international slavery into a statistical exercise not the

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Speaker 7: most useful way to think about it, and sadly that

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Speaker 7: legacy has clouded academic debates more than it has helped.

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Speaker 7: And yeah, and you know goes back to what you're

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Speaker 7: saying is that, you know, I feel like people approach

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Speaker 7: and view slavery from, you know, the macro view of

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Speaker 7: you know, numbers and not people. You know, the subtext

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Speaker 7: on this chapter was one slave is too much. And

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Speaker 7: you know, whether it was a million slaves that went

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Speaker 7: to this island or thirty three thousand, one slave was

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Speaker 7: too much.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's you know three of us in

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Speaker 2: the podcast. My family is me and my wife and

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Speaker 2: are two kids. That's four people. That's much less than

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Speaker 2: thirty three thousand. But that's my whole plan, that's my

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Speaker 2: whole existence, that's my whole world, right So, but I

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Speaker 2: did think it was interesting.

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Speaker 3: He didn't need to include that debate.

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Speaker 2: I think, you know, the intro of the chapter of

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Speaker 2: him standing there and putting his hands out and feeling

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Speaker 2: how small the quarters were is something he literally did

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Speaker 2: earlier in the book, and as we discussed, the book

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Speaker 2: to this point had been so moving in this sort

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Speaker 2: of humanizing and individualizing of these stories that I thought

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Speaker 2: it was, Like I said, I thought it was very

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Speaker 2: interesting that he that he didn't just do that again

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Speaker 2: in this chapter, that he pulled that lens back even

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Speaker 2: further on the ways we all talk about the past,

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Speaker 2: you know.

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Speaker 4: And he also discussed like you know, the the places

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Speaker 4: they put slaves that fought, and he talked about how

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Speaker 4: he felt in that space and how it also looked

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Speaker 4: like spaces he had seen when visiting Whitney, you know

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Speaker 4: what I mean, when seeing going to the Red Hat

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Speaker 4: Seill and it's like how they started off, you know

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Speaker 4: what I'm saying, like when how they started out treating

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Speaker 4: people who had who had fought. But I'm gonna read

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Speaker 4: this how he felt when he was there. I thought

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Speaker 4: of the bell that plantations. I thought of the of

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Speaker 4: the bell that plantations, like the Whitney, which had been

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Speaker 4: wrong to tell the enslaved people to gather around and

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Speaker 4: watch one of their loved ones being lashed until they bled.

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Speaker 4: I thought of the rooms and ang this red hat

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Speaker 4: cell block, how the smallness of the spaces had closed

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Speaker 4: in on me. The cramp cavern might have been where

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Speaker 4: the lessons on first resistances had taken place in a

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Speaker 4: person's earliest days of enslavement, where spirits.

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Speaker 5: And bodies had been broken.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I had to put the book down for

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Speaker 4: a second when I read that, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 4: how you know, yeah, those things that how they started

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Speaker 4: off with that, you know what I'm saying at the island,

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Speaker 4: you know what I mean, And how these things continued,

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Speaker 4: you know, even into all these other places, you know,

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Speaker 4: for hundreds and hundreds of.

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Speaker 5: Years, you know what I mean. So it's just crazy. Yeah.

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Speaker 7: Something something else that stuck with me that hit me

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Speaker 7: hard was when they talked about the door of no return,

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Speaker 7: which was a door in this in the slave house

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Speaker 7: that you know that the the enslaved people would walk

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Speaker 7: through and you know, before boarding their boats, and that

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Speaker 7: was it. You know, they would not see Africa, a

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Speaker 7: lot of them would die, but you know it. What

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Speaker 7: it brought to mind was, I'm sure we've all read

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Speaker 7: Dante's Inferno in like high school, right, and and you remember,

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Speaker 7: if you remember, there's a sign on the front of

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Speaker 7: the gates of Hell that says abandoned all hope ye

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Speaker 7: who enter here, right, And that made me think of

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Speaker 7: that because it was like, these are slave people. That

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Speaker 7: was their door that they were walking through to their

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Speaker 7: own personal health, you know what I mean. So that

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Speaker 7: kind of hit me hard too.

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Speaker 3: I think the other part of that door was he described.

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Speaker 2: The effect that, to be completely honest with you, I

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Speaker 2: don't think I had and maybe this is, you know,

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Speaker 2: stupid of me. I don't think I'd ever really thought

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Speaker 2: of it until this chapter, that what this did to

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Speaker 2: Africa and to the nations, particularly on you know, that

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Speaker 2: coast of Africa. That we talk about what the Holocaust

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Speaker 2: did to Germany and to the Jewish population, but quite similarly, millions.

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Speaker 3: Of people were taken from their homes.

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Speaker 2: And we've talked about that story almost I mean really

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Speaker 2: exclusively in my life through the story of this country

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Speaker 2: and not through the story of of what could those

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Speaker 2: people have been in their home? How many generations could

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Speaker 2: they have, you know, had brought forth in their home

384
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Speaker 2: as opposed to here like that that that aspect of

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Speaker 2: it was I don't know. That was definitely a mind

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Speaker 2: twist for me because I look at I just had

387
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Speaker 2: not considered it. I thought of our country, you thought

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Speaker 2: of the individuals that you know, this stuff happened to.

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Speaker 2: But realizing like, well, yeah, what would that be like

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Speaker 2: in California if someone took five million people out of

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Speaker 2: here right over two hundred years, you know, I mean

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Speaker 2: that's I don't know that that's really different.

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Speaker 4: And he talked about like the mortality rate of people,

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Speaker 4: you know that that were slaves, and.

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Speaker 7: Something like only thirty percent of people of people made

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Speaker 7: the trip.

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Speaker 5: You know that that yeah, actually made it, you know

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Speaker 5: what I mean.

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Speaker 4: That's and and when you talk about the sheer numbers

400
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Speaker 4: of slaves that were in.

401
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Speaker 5: The United States brought that brought over through.

402
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Speaker 4: That, you know what I mean, like and how many

403
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Speaker 4: so like if when you look at the number of

404
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Speaker 4: slaves within the United States, it was insane that were

405
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Speaker 4: brought over.

406
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Speaker 5: That was insane, Right, that numbers.

407
00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:09,359
Speaker 4: Is shocking when you look at But that's only thirty

408
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Speaker 4: percent of the slaves that were actually captured.

409
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Speaker 5: You know what I'm saying that that blew my ship.

410
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Speaker 5: That fucked me up.

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Speaker 2: Right, Let's talk about the epilogue as discussed up top,

412
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Speaker 2: like very important in.

413
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Speaker 3: The way that it at.

414
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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's that's that's a that's a wild boy statement

415
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Speaker 4: to say, let's not discuss this.

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Speaker 2: That is a wild only thing smoother than you trying

417
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Speaker 2: to you trying the master procrastinator move was how quickly

418
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Speaker 2: Tyler's X ray vision saw through you.

419
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Speaker 3: Literally you literally said, quote you read the.

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Speaker 7: Chapter, just say that I did you put the eyes

421
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Speaker 7: like I see nigga, Hey, we just say, motherfucker. Bro.

422
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Speaker 5: You know what I'm saying.

423
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Speaker 7: You try to pull a me on me. You know

424
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Speaker 7: I thought that should.

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Speaker 4: Bro, if it was any other epilogue, that would have

426
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,600
Speaker 4: made so much sense though, Like you know what I'm saying,

427
00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:11,720
Speaker 4: that's what fucked me up him, Like damn, it would

428
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Speaker 4: be this one.

429
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Speaker 5: Where I try to pull his ship you feel what

430
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Speaker 5: I'm saying.

431
00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:19,399
Speaker 2: So the epilogue was a perfect ending to the book.

432
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Speaker 2: The book has been all over the country, all over

433
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Speaker 2: the world, and in the epilogue, instead of visiting another place,

434
00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:34,000
Speaker 2: Clint just sat down with his grandparents and brought that story.

435
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:35,760
Speaker 3: That again he'd made.

436
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Speaker 2: He somehow The thing that I still can't figure out

437
00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:42,320
Speaker 2: how he did in this book is he made this

438
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:46,760
Speaker 2: word slavery or this story that we've all heard these

439
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:50,480
Speaker 2: different versions of, He somehow told the story of the

440
00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:55,800
Speaker 2: whole macro level, worldwide thing and also made you understand

441
00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:58,880
Speaker 2: the impact it had on every individual caught up in it.

442
00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:03,600
Speaker 2: And he personalized that story and everything that's happened in

443
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:07,480
Speaker 2: this country since in his discussion with his grandparents, which

444
00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:11,440
Speaker 2: I thought was just perfect, perfect way to end the book.

445
00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:16,480
Speaker 7: Yeah, for sure, this was a chapter where Clint showed

446
00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:18,800
Speaker 7: us how far we are from the past, but how

447
00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:20,760
Speaker 7: close we are to it as well. You know, he

448
00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:24,760
Speaker 7: opens it up by mentioning that his grandfather's grandfather was

449
00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:26,880
Speaker 7: a slave, you know what I mean, And shit mine

450
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:27,359
Speaker 7: was too.

451
00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:28,600
Speaker 5: You know.

452
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:30,760
Speaker 7: That's why when we have these discussions about oh that

453
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:32,439
Speaker 7: was in the past, that was the past, is not

454
00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:34,800
Speaker 7: that far away. Bro, Both of my parents went to

455
00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:36,040
Speaker 7: segregated high schools.

456
00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:36,720
Speaker 5: You know what I mean.

457
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:39,560
Speaker 7: It's not the past is not that far And there

458
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:41,879
Speaker 7: was a part in the in the story where they

459
00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:45,879
Speaker 7: went to the National Museum of African American History and

460
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:50,720
Speaker 7: in DC and they came up across Emmettil's display, and

461
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:54,760
Speaker 7: I'm gonna read that part, okay. So we approached Emmittil's casket.

462
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:58,800
Speaker 7: It's bronze, hugh radiating under the museum lights. It sat open,

463
00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:01,920
Speaker 7: exposing us to a photograph of what Emmitt's mother, who

464
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:04,920
Speaker 7: insisted on an open casket funeral, had chosen to show

465
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:07,760
Speaker 7: what white supremacy had done to her son. I had

466
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:09,679
Speaker 7: seen images of it before and did not need to

467
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:12,320
Speaker 7: listen to anything other than the soft buzzing light above

468
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:15,920
Speaker 7: us to know of made me tell Mobley's unceasing sobs.

469
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 7: My grandfather looked at the casket, his eyes moving unhurriedly

470
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:22,960
Speaker 7: across its frame. He was killed in the next town

471
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,000
Speaker 7: over from where your grandmother and I lived, only a

472
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:28,520
Speaker 7: few miles away, he said, without looking up. So you know,

473
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:32,479
Speaker 7: like I said, it's just the past is not that

474
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:35,320
Speaker 7: far behind. We are all linked to that shit.

475
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:36,439
Speaker 5: You know.

476
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:38,479
Speaker 4: So that was one of the paragraphs I was gonna read,

477
00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:40,280
Speaker 4: which is interesting. But what tripped me out about that

478
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:43,240
Speaker 4: too was like this, you know something six decades later

479
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:46,560
Speaker 4: she said she lied, you know what I mean, And like, yeah,

480
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 4: this this paragraph made like when you we're reading about

481
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 4: the history and I, you know, I feel certain parts

482
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:56,040
Speaker 4: of it, but I truly can't connect like all the

483
00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:58,840
Speaker 4: way because you know, like I don't know how it felt,

484
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:02,200
Speaker 4: you know what I mean. I don't, but it's saddening,

485
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:03,720
Speaker 4: but I can't feel it. I felt the hell out

486
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,800
Speaker 4: this fucking this fucking chapter epilogue.

487
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:06,840
Speaker 5: You know what I mean?

488
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:11,600
Speaker 4: You know, because my my grandmother says the same shit

489
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:13,960
Speaker 4: to me, you know, tends to me these these same

490
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 4: stories about her past, and therese similar stories.

491
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:17,240
Speaker 5: You know what I mean.

492
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:22,119
Speaker 4: But it talks about like, uh, the teachers like write

493
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:25,639
Speaker 4: handwriting text in books because they would get hand me

494
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,399
Speaker 4: down books to be missing pages, like the dedication it

495
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:31,640
Speaker 4: took to be educated, and how his grandfather was assisted

496
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:35,000
Speaker 4: by a principal in order to like, you know, excel,

497
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:36,919
Speaker 4: and how you know difficult it is to make it

498
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:38,959
Speaker 4: out of poverty, and how you must excel to have

499
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 4: just a chance at a normal life. And also like

500
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:46,320
Speaker 4: with them mittil things like it tripp't, like a white

501
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:49,679
Speaker 4: lie is more powerful than a black person telling the truth.

502
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:53,159
Speaker 5: And how fragile love an existence is that you know

503
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:54,720
Speaker 5: what I mean, where you're gonna be.

504
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 4: You're walking down the street, and like his grandmother talks

505
00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 4: about when people would would come with right on the street,

506
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 4: she would run.

507
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:02,320
Speaker 5: Into the woods to hide.

508
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:03,960
Speaker 4: You just want to stay away from whit people because

509
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 4: you just there's no telling what they would do to you.

510
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:08,760
Speaker 4: And they would get away with it as well. There

511
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:12,640
Speaker 4: you know, there was no consequences to that, Like it's

512
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:14,439
Speaker 4: that ship was wild to me.

513
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 5: But I want to talk.

514
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:18,320
Speaker 4: I want to read this paragraph of her talking about

515
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,960
Speaker 4: like how she made it through and what he got

516
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:26,920
Speaker 4: from that. The exhibit at the museums were not abstractions

517
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 4: from my grandparents.

518
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:28,640
Speaker 5: They were affirmations.

519
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 4: What they had experience was not there of their imagination,

520
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 4: and that's crazy. Weren't extractions they were they were affirmations.

521
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:40,359
Speaker 4: So you're going to a museum seeing these atrocities and

522
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:42,680
Speaker 4: it just affirms what you already know is just wild

523
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,919
Speaker 4: to me and harrowing reminders that the scars of that

524
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 4: era had not been self inflicted. When my grandfather, when

525
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 4: my grandmother said I lived it, when I heard this

526
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,480
Speaker 4: heard what When what I heard was this museum as

527
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 4: a mirror. When my grandmother said I lived, what I

528
00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:58,680
Speaker 4: heard was my memories are an exhibit of their own.

529
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 4: When my grandmother said I live it, what I heard

530
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 4: was always remember what this country did to us. My

531
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 4: grandmother said I lived it, what I heard was don't

532
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:09,200
Speaker 4: let them tell you we didn't fight back. When my

533
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:11,560
Speaker 4: grandmother said I lived it, what I heard was I

534
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:15,360
Speaker 4: did not die. I have somehow made it here when

535
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,399
Speaker 4: so many did not. I escaped the jaws of a

536
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 4: cruel thing and lived to tell this story. When my

537
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 4: grandmother said I lived it, what I heard was I'm

538
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:26,160
Speaker 4: still alive. That shit was so moving to them, man.

539
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 5: You know, like and she kept and what she kept saying,

540
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:31,719
Speaker 5: you know, I lived, I lived. I lived it.

541
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 4: And like for him to you know, understanding in that

542
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 4: way was, I know, that's a special interaction right there.

543
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:39,880
Speaker 4: You know what I mean to be able to do that,

544
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 4: and a lot of us don't, you know, get those opportunities.

545
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 4: But for him to write about that and how he

546
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 4: felt about that was that was that was that was this?

547
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:49,680
Speaker 4: Like you said, this paragraph is probably the most hard hitting.

548
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 4: I mean this, this this chapter was a probably the

549
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 4: most hard hitting chapter the whole entire book.

550
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:54,920
Speaker 5: For sure.

551
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 2: I thought it's it's beautiful, but it is also it highlights,

552
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 2: you know, this book is about history and about the

553
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,200
Speaker 2: human experience of what.

554
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:07,440
Speaker 3: That was like versus the stories that we tell.

555
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 2: And I think an interesting aspect of this is it's

556
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:13,679
Speaker 2: also kind of a gift that he has these stories

557
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:17,199
Speaker 2: from his grandparents, you know, I mean, Shar does not.

558
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:20,919
Speaker 2: Shar didn't get to know her grandparents. She didn't have

559
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 2: that opportunity, and she's been you know, maybe in part

560
00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 2: because of that, she's been very into genealogy and researching

561
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 2: her family's history for the last couple of years. And

562
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 2: there's just a like her her family's history since slavery

563
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 2: ended is incredible. Like her great grandma worked for the

564
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 2: first black modeling agency in the country as a model.

565
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 2: Her great grandpa was a songwriter, very successful songwriter. He

566
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:53,840
Speaker 2: has songs she found out in the Library of Congress

567
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:58,399
Speaker 2: that she requested copies of. Right, Like, but you get

568
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 2: to the period of slavery and it's like a. It

569
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 2: just it disappears there's no right, I mean, because there

570
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 2: was not the consideration of her ancestors as people from

571
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 2: that point going back, and that that's been very profound

572
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 2: in looking at the family trees as she's put together

573
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 2: for our kids.

574
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,640
Speaker 3: Is on her dad's side.

575
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,200
Speaker 2: You know, he was Okinawan and grew up in Hawaii,

576
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 2: she can trace that history back to Japan. On my side,

577
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 2: she can trace my grandpa back to Italy.

578
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 3: And for her, she.

579
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 2: Can trace her family back into enslavement. And that's it, right,

580
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 2: I mean that yeah, And that's visually has been very

581
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 2: profound for me. But I was I was moved and

582
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 2: happy for Clint that he had this opportunity with his grandparents,

583
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 2: because I did think it was a beautiful perspective to

584
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 2: bring at the close of what was obviously a difficult

585
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 2: book in a lot of parts to.

586
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 4: Read, even even with like you know, in third grade

587
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 4: that we had to do like where did your people

588
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 4: come from?

589
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 5: Thing? You know what I mean?

590
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 4: I hated them and I had I had access to

591
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 4: my grandmother and I still had you know, we I

592
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 4: think we went back to Kentucky or Mississippi or some shit,

593
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 4: you know what I'm saying, like I mean, like we

594
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 4: were asked, these are these lessons I'm learning in third grade?

595
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 4: Like you know what I'm saying, and in ways that

596
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 4: like that also that you know, my white teacher had

597
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 4: no idea that how ridiculous of a question it is

598
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:35,239
Speaker 4: to ask her black students, which I might have been

599
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:37,240
Speaker 4: one of three in the fucking class, you know what

600
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 4: I'm saying.

601
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 7: Right right, right right, because you'd have classmates like, oh,

602
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 7: we can't we can trace our family roots back to

603
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 7: eight hundred and thirty two, right, Whales. It's like, bro,

604
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 7: we got my grandma's grandma and that's about it.

605
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 5: And I was like I was a straight A student.

606
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 4: I was whooping these motherfucker's ass and the timetables and shit,

607
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 4: she knew me, you feel what I'm saying. I was

608
00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:00,160
Speaker 4: in like the high reading classes and all that, you

609
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 4: know what I mean, and like I'm doing all those

610
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 4: books and she and she still like at those was like,

611
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 4: you know, asking me as if I had not done

612
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 4: my treating me as if I hadn't done my research.

613
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 5: Motherfucker. Yeah, there's no you know, there's no research to

614
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 5: be done.

615
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 4: It doesn't exist for you know what I'm saying, like,

616
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 4: you know what I'm saying, like, but it's it's wild.

617
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 5: But I mean what tripped me out also with me working.

618
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 4: In the schools for like eight years and me being

619
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 4: a Saint Louis and working on the North side and

620
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 4: my family coming from the north side of Saint Louis,

621
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 4: you know, which is like a very impoverished area, and

622
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 4: me seeing how like what the teachers are doing there

623
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 4: mimic what the teachers were doing back then, where they

624
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 4: didn't have books they could bring home, you know, they

625
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 4: could there was no homework because they the books were

626
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 4: being shared with every student, so you had the book

627
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 4: while in class, you know what I'm saying, And how

628
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 4: like the only students that really could make it out

629
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 4: through academics were those who excelled, you know what I mean, Like,

630
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 4: if you're excelling, you should have you know, you should

631
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 4: be in jo jobs that are you know, are getting

632
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 4: having careers and lives that are that result from you

633
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 4: you're excelling when you're younger, you know what I mean.

634
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 4: But just to them them even get in college and

635
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 4: have a chance to make it out of that area,

636
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 4: they had to excel, you know what I'm saying, like

637
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:20,480
Speaker 4: where the fucking valedictorian has like a eighteen on the

638
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 4: Act because they didn't have access to the same thing

639
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 4: as other schools did, you know. I mean, that's a

640
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 4: straight a student. They've done everything they can, and that's

641
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 4: you know, and and and the system.

642
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 5: Has just failed them. You feel what I'm saying, Like that.

643
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 4: Shit was heartbreaking to sea And it was wild to

644
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 4: read that shit being that I was experienced at and

645
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 4: it was seeing that what that they were doing this

646
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 4: shit fucking eighty years ago, you know what I'm saying,

647
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:50,240
Speaker 4: A hundred years ago, you know, just to have a

648
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 4: chance at a regular fucking life.

649
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 3: Well, that was how the word has passed.

650
00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 2: We are hoping to have clint On, like I said,

651
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 2: next week weet questions ready and we'll have more details

652
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 2: about that. And we'll also talk on the next part

653
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:08,480
Speaker 2: about what we're doing with the book club going forward

654
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 2: as we're getting into the basketball season, so uh, stay

655
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 2: tuned for that as well.

656
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 5: All right, So Mike wants me to tee hisself for

657
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 5: some reason. I don't know why this nigga want me

658
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:25,160
Speaker 5: to tee this ship up, but this motherfucker. First of all,

659
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 5: I'm I'm a Will Smith fan. You know the man is.

660
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 5: I love Hitch, you know what I'm saying.

661
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 4: Like I watched damn near all of his movies, you

662
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 4: know what I'm saying.

663
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 5: Fresh Pinch was great to me.

664
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 4: But my guy got on GQ and got the wrestler,

665
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 4: the wrestler.

666
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 5: Fucking facial hair, and I'm like, Yo, what the fuck?

667
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 2: What is the what is the name? Is there an

668
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 2: official name for the go tee with no mustache? There's

669
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 2: a name for every fish all. There's a man shoe

670
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 2: and all types of ship. But that ship looks crazy,

671
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 2: you know that, mother bro.

672
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 7: When I saw that ship, I was like, Jada is

673
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 7: putting this dude through this motherfuckers like when you're trying,

674
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 7: when you take up risk and trying, crazy ass dude,

675
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 7: look like that you're.

676
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 4: Gonna do some ship, Nigga, take that ship to the

677
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 4: red table and lead that motherfucker air.

678
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 5: Y'all need to discuss that ship.

679
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 3: Though it's it's what's called it's called a pure go tea.

680
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 5: I'm glad.

681
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 7: I'm glad my go tea is cut or whatever the

682
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:34,760
Speaker 7: fuck or unfiltered or filtered.

683
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 2: Here, you don't you got the baking so yeah, that

684
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 2: motherfucker look.

685
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 4: And then he got the little like shadow of a

686
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 4: mustache like at the top.

687
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:49,720
Speaker 5: Nigga, why you nigga? You telling us you could have

688
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 5: grown a mustache.

689
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 3: You didn't.

690
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 5: That shit be making your nose look wild. So I

691
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 5: don't know what it is about.

692
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 4: The you know what I'm saying, like the aesthetics of

693
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 4: that motherfucker, but the nose look cheeked, ch cheek bone

694
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 4: and cheekbone in that bitch. That's bro, it's a it's

695
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 4: a very red hat. You know what I'm saying, anti facts.

696
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 4: We need to we need to ask his vaccination status.

697
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:13,960
Speaker 4: I wonder what Will Smith's vaccination status is based on

698
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:16,400
Speaker 4: that cd L having ass mustache?

699
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 5: Nigga, that air Breek operating that ass mustache.

700
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:23,880
Speaker 4: This motherfucker got Booker t face hash nigga, what are

701
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:26,799
Speaker 4: you doing g backyard.

702
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:30,759
Speaker 7: Wrestling face ass? You know what I mean? Motherfucker got

703
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:34,799
Speaker 7: motherfucker got a new metal fan bro. I god damn

704
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:39,360
Speaker 7: lip biscuit looked like a slip biscuit, slip knock. Goddamn

705
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:39,920
Speaker 7: fan bro.

706
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:45,239
Speaker 4: The this nigga ship on GQ, like you thought this

707
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,879
Speaker 4: was stylish. You saved this asked when I hit him

708
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 4: with this motherfucker.

709
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:53,239
Speaker 7: You know what I'm saying, You smollish the smot the

710
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 7: smallest wild to hell too, because that is a crazy

711
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 7: man facial hair decision you make and you.

712
00:34:58,160 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 5: Just smiling and everything's lovely.

713
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:05,319
Speaker 4: Look at is going, Bro, Nigga, that is literally the

714
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:07,360
Speaker 4: last thing I would do with my face.

715
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:10,279
Speaker 5: That's what I make my richie, you know what I mean?

716
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:13,319
Speaker 5: Like this will kill him. I'm gonna shave off my

717
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 5: stash and leave everything.

718
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:18,399
Speaker 4: Mother. What's really what's really wild? This nigga could grow

719
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 4: a beard. He has the ability to grow a beard.

720
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:25,800
Speaker 4: And this is what you do on GQ, Like Nigga,

721
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:30,759
Speaker 4: you he went the GQ with that, bro, Bro, the

722
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 4: pain in them fucking spaced out ass, high.

723
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:42,880
Speaker 5: Face ass nigga, what is you doing that ship? Wild?

724
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:46,239
Speaker 5: To me? Will it ain't ate whatever you're going through?

725
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:48,759
Speaker 4: Man, you got the money for therapy when you're here,

726
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:50,719
Speaker 4: I support you, you know what I mean?

727
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 2: Come on, gee, Wow, he's definitely he's definitely going for

728
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:58,479
Speaker 2: aesthetic with the with the clothing as well.

729
00:35:58,520 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 1: Bro.

730
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 4: Maybe a professional getaway with that ship too, you know

731
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 4: what I mean, Like a biology history professor could probably

732
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 4: do that.

733
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:07,360
Speaker 5: You know what I'm saying, Oh yeah, I think he's.

734
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:11,040
Speaker 2: Going for professor over wrestler. He's got the picture of

735
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 2: him with the book on the bed at the window.

736
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 4: You know what I'm saying, big anthropology vibes going on.

737
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 5: You know what I'm saying.

738
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 3: You surprised me in my nineteenth century church.

739
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,759
Speaker 5: You know, history of man ass nigga. You know what

740
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:28,360
Speaker 5: I'm saying, Like that, that's what that's what he's going for.

741
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:31,320
Speaker 5: Ain't good for him? Good for him, but Jesus Christ

742
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:34,800
Speaker 5: man like it makes you happy. Whatever. But I can't

743
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,879
Speaker 5: co sign that dog I liked hitch. I can't tell

744
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:39,920
Speaker 5: you know what I'm saying. That's a sports I go.

745
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:44,720
Speaker 2: Somebody said this is Will Smith and this is Will Smith.

746
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:55,040
Speaker 5: Hey, that upper lip is upper lipping, Nigga. That motherfuck

747
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:59,359
Speaker 5: that out there right, that mouth out there.

748
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:03,080
Speaker 7: But you know what I'm saying, Like, dog, it ain't gotta.

749
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:05,880
Speaker 5: Be that way, brother, Come on now, geez.

750
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 2: After twenty years on the same sideline, Tom Brady and

751
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:15,359
Speaker 2: Bill Belichick meet this weekend as opponents. It's the goat

752
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:18,000
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753
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755
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756
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757
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758
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:37,160
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759
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:40,799
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760
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:42,960
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761
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:45,839
Speaker 2: the Bucks money line. I'm going with the Bucks to cover.

762
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763
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764
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769
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779
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Speaker 2: we're very excited to welcome on our guest this week,

780
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 2: Matt Sullivan. He's a writer. His piece in The Rolling

781
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:53,719
Speaker 2: Stone on COVID nineteen anti vaxxers in the NBA has

782
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:56,759
Speaker 2: obviously been the topic of discussion in the NBA. You

783
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,800
Speaker 2: can also check out his new book on the Brooklyn Nets,

784
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:03,959
Speaker 2: call Can't Knock the Hustle at Amazon or your local bookstore. Matt,

785
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:05,839
Speaker 2: Welcome to the show Man. Thanks for coming on. So

786
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 2: tell us about just what the reaction has been like

787
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:12,480
Speaker 2: for you. I mean, I feel like your story dropped.

788
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:15,839
Speaker 2: I think it was Saturday, and then I mean, we're

789
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 2: five days later and the only thing anyone is talking

790
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:21,120
Speaker 2: about with the NBA at this point still is COVID nineteen,

791
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 2: you know, vaccines and anti vactioners. So what's the last

792
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:25,920
Speaker 2: couple of days been like for you with I mean it's.

793
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:30,120
Speaker 6: Been a little overwhelming. I'm not sure the reaction.

794
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:34,440
Speaker 1: Surprises me though, right, because this is the predominant, urgent

795
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 1: crisis of our time. And you know, I spent a

796
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:40,760
Speaker 1: lot of time with my book exploring activism and social

797
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:42,960
Speaker 1: justice as that has run the course the last ten

798
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:46,080
Speaker 1: years in the NBA. And here's like the pandemic, right,

799
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:48,040
Speaker 1: I mean, how were we not going to talk about

800
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 1: the pandemic? And so I didn't go into writing this

801
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:53,720
Speaker 1: with any agenda. I just kind of saw Kyrie posting

802
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 1: on the Graham about, you know, being at some reservation.

803
00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 1: I was like, why is this to wear a mask?

804
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:01,400
Speaker 1: I just started asking around asking question. People wanted to

805
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 1: talk to me about this. Players wanted to talk to me.

806
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 1: I mean some guys didn't want touch with a ten

807
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:06,759
Speaker 1: foot poll. But I was like, Okay, this is going

808
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:08,920
Speaker 1: to be a thing. This is like, this is important,

809
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:12,719
Speaker 1: this is the most important thing. And so I thought

810
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:14,400
Speaker 1: it was gonna take like three weeks to write the story.

811
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:15,879
Speaker 1: And my editor is like no, no, no, we got

812
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 1: to get out ahead of.

813
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 6: Media day, like get this on the agenda. And so

814
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 6: it's interesting.

815
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:24,360
Speaker 1: I mean, Kyrie's Kyrie and then I think he he

816
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:27,920
Speaker 1: will be a real acid test trippy as he is

817
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:31,359
Speaker 1: of where this goes. But yeah, I mean I've been

818
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:33,399
Speaker 1: I've been getting a lot of anti vaxxers up.

819
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:35,719
Speaker 6: In my dms. Have have definitely had to.

820
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:38,759
Speaker 1: Tweak the notifications a little, so maybe the algorithms are

821
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:39,239
Speaker 1: working for.

822
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:40,279
Speaker 6: The better, you know what I mean.

823
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:45,239
Speaker 7: So, Matt Man, I appreciate you hopping on with us.

824
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 7: So you know, and in the article, you know it's

825
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:49,840
Speaker 7: mentioned how only about you know ten percent of the

826
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:52,920
Speaker 7: league is unvaccinated. But but yet you know the players

827
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 7: Union is caving on just about all their demands. And

828
00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 7: that's interesting to me because you know, it's no secret

829
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:00,160
Speaker 7: that the Players Union is a place where, you know,

830
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 7: the big dogs call the shots. You know, it's not

831
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:04,880
Speaker 7: necessarily a place where everyone has an equal voice. Like

832
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 7: it's no secret that you know the Players Union puts

833
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:08,719
Speaker 7: the big dogs first and everyone else has to get

834
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 7: in and where they're fitting. You don't see super max

835
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 7: guys caving into like you know, the veteran minimum guys

836
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:15,680
Speaker 7: on any other issues, But in this situation where they

837
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:18,799
Speaker 7: unvaxxed are the extreme minority. They caved in on a

838
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:20,839
Speaker 7: lot of demands, and I'm curious, why do you think

839
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:22,200
Speaker 7: that is you have any sight onto that.

840
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:24,760
Speaker 6: I mean, are the unvaxed the extreme minority.

841
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:28,360
Speaker 1: I think the folks who are currently unvaxxed are the

842
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:33,640
Speaker 1: extreme minority. I mean, Lebron was very equivocal when he was,

843
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 1: you know, at that party with Drake and Michael b

844
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:40,920
Speaker 1: and Clutch back in May. You'll remember that Jannis's brother

845
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:45,279
Speaker 1: tests or was in the COVID protocols like Game five

846
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:47,600
Speaker 1: in the finals. You're telling me that that's not a

847
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 1: close contact of the biggest superstar of the moment.

848
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:51,080
Speaker 2: I'm not.

849
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:56,360
Speaker 1: I'm not suggesting anything nefarious, but you know, the biggest

850
00:41:56,360 --> 00:42:01,480
Speaker 1: superstars were possibly unvaccinated heading into the summer. And so

851
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:04,200
Speaker 1: I think this vocal minority, while there are the kind

852
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:06,839
Speaker 1: of extremists who look at weird shit on Instagram that is.

853
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:10,760
Speaker 6: Pretty out there. I think any strong union would.

854
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:13,400
Speaker 1: Say, Okay, we can't set a precedent for forcing the

855
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:16,680
Speaker 1: employer management to put shit in the employee's bodies, so

856
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:18,480
Speaker 1: like that kind of makes sense from a straight like

857
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:22,440
Speaker 1: labor perspective. But yeah, I mean this is a hardcore

858
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:25,840
Speaker 1: stance by the union, which has only been emboldened over

859
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:28,360
Speaker 1: the last couple of years of you know, player empowerment

860
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:29,839
Speaker 1: coming to the crux with the bubble and all that.

861
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:33,600
Speaker 1: So it doesn't like totally surprise me. But the league is,

862
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:36,360
Speaker 1: you know, talking to the league sources are pretty pissed off.

863
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 1: They're like, they're not budgeting on this and this could

864
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:40,920
Speaker 1: get bad. And so that's kind of the excuse that

865
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:43,760
Speaker 1: the league keeps giving about why there are more protocols

866
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 1: and crackdowns. And you know, the league did finally come

867
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:51,960
Speaker 1: out with its kind of almost final rules for COVID

868
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:55,759
Speaker 1: late on Tuesday night, and you know it's reading through

869
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 1: like all sixty five pages of them, like it's pretty

870
00:42:57,560 --> 00:42:59,919
Speaker 1: hardcore on the unvaccinated. You're not going to have fun,

871
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 1: You're not going to have any friends over to your

872
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:03,600
Speaker 1: hotel room on the road.

873
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:04,319
Speaker 6: That's well.

874
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 2: And you you mentioned the league being pissed off and

875
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 2: sort of hardlining. I think they just this morning announced

876
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:15,000
Speaker 2: that if you you know the Andrew Wiggins situation, if

877
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 2: you're not playing in a home game because you're not

878
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 2: meeting your your team's cities health departments guidelines, you are

879
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:23,359
Speaker 2: not going.

880
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:23,800
Speaker 3: To be paid.

881
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:29,200
Speaker 2: And so it's like, that's that's a pretty big piece

882
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:31,600
Speaker 2: of that puzzle I think you mean.

883
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:34,640
Speaker 1: I mean, first of all, I think Draymond and Iggy

884
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:38,880
Speaker 1: are going to just fucking yell at Wiggans.

885
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 6: I'm not sure he's running the shots there.

886
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:43,719
Speaker 1: But you got to realize, like Kyrie has Nike money, right,

887
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 1: Like he doesn't really care about game checks, even if

888
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:50,480
Speaker 1: it's eight hundred K a night. I mean, this dude

889
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:53,959
Speaker 1: skipped seven games in the row in January for what

890
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 1: sources told me at the time was a quote spiritual.

891
00:43:57,120 --> 00:43:58,759
Speaker 6: Mental, and emotional break, right.

892
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:01,960
Speaker 1: I mean that was for some precipitated by the Capitol riot,

893
00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 1: which did not make anybody happy.

894
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:04,839
Speaker 6: But you know, he stands first form.

895
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 2: But but do you think Kyrie is leading a group

896
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:11,080
Speaker 2: or it? I mean, I see him more so as

897
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:13,160
Speaker 2: sort of an island onto himself a little bit.

898
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:15,120
Speaker 3: Do you think he's leading a group of people? Most

899
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 3: people don't have Kyrie's Nike money, you know what I mean?

900
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:20,480
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm not sure.

901
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:23,319
Speaker 1: I think a lot of guys in the League looked

902
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:27,360
Speaker 1: to Kyrie to embody some of their instincts.

903
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:27,560
Speaker 6: You know.

904
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:31,920
Speaker 1: I think when he was leading this pseudo almost kind

905
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 1: of boycott that failed of the bubble, he was speaking

906
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 1: for that unvocal minority, and he failed, right, he failed

907
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 1: to unite and lead this kind of coalition of the unwilling.

908
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:46,360
Speaker 1: I think he's on Kyrie Island for sure, and you

909
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 1: know he wants to lead what he calls his tribe

910
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:49,360
Speaker 1: off the court.

911
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 6: I don't know.

912
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:52,439
Speaker 1: Is it going to be a really a good look

913
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:54,919
Speaker 1: if he is really taking this stand all the way

914
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:59,280
Speaker 1: and being kind of this freedom fighter for the opposite

915
00:44:59,280 --> 00:44:59,880
Speaker 1: of science.

916
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:01,120
Speaker 5: I don't know.

917
00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a lot's going to ride on KD

918
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:04,920
Speaker 1: like guilt tripping him into doing this.

919
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:05,960
Speaker 6: I don't know.

920
00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:08,600
Speaker 1: He says there's a plan that will be revealed in

921
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:11,360
Speaker 1: due time. I don't know if the nets are aware

922
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:15,280
Speaker 1: of any such plan. But man, what a shit show?

923
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:17,960
Speaker 5: What do you think? What do you think? Like as

924
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:18,919
Speaker 5: far as how do you think?

925
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:21,640
Speaker 4: Because Kyrie won't just be missing games in New York,

926
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:23,120
Speaker 4: there's other places, like he won't be able to play

927
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 4: in Cali and stuff like that, so he'll miss like

928
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 4: upwards of like fifty games. Do you see like him

929
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:33,360
Speaker 4: not getting the vacs and missing fifty fucking games of

930
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:36,480
Speaker 4: the season, Like, well, one side, k like, what are

931
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:36,920
Speaker 4: you thinking?

932
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:39,840
Speaker 1: I mean, look like the whole leak of you know,

933
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:41,880
Speaker 1: if I get traded, I'm going to retire.

934
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 6: You know. It's just kind of making a point.

935
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 1: Right Like he said on Kd's podcast that I could

936
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:53,120
Speaker 1: see myself retiring early and heading off into the desert

937
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:55,400
Speaker 1: one day, growing out my fro and throwing on like

938
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:58,279
Speaker 1: a cape or whatever, and like, I think these I.

939
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 3: Can see that too, for sure.

940
00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 1: It's kind of this imaginative possibility, like, look how much

941
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:08,560
Speaker 1: power I have that I could do this. I definitely

942
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:11,200
Speaker 1: don't see him fucking over his teammates like that after

943
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:13,840
Speaker 1: they've had all this stopping start with Katie's injury and

944
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:16,360
Speaker 1: then last season to tow on the line away from

945
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:19,360
Speaker 1: going to the finals. So no, I don't see him

946
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:22,520
Speaker 1: riding it all the way out, but maybe just enough

947
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:27,200
Speaker 1: to prove a point until Josie gets mad and the

948
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:30,359
Speaker 1: Nets owner and Steve Nash is just kind of like, okay,

949
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:33,600
Speaker 1: I can't keep like kind of resting you. So I

950
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 1: don't know that the Nets like to kind of shuffle

951
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:38,040
Speaker 1: in and out and mix up their rotations a ton anyway,

952
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 1: But I think there's only so long that the gambit

953
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:41,560
Speaker 1: can go on.

954
00:46:41,719 --> 00:46:43,560
Speaker 6: Before he came, I think.

955
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:45,360
Speaker 1: You know, sources in it to me that like he

956
00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:49,759
Speaker 1: just thought that somebody else would cave, right, And I think,

957
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:52,400
Speaker 1: if anything, it looks like the forces are swelling that

958
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:55,160
Speaker 1: the PA might have to kind of like not let

959
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:58,719
Speaker 1: him be the ultimate example here because he's just I

960
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:00,600
Speaker 1: don't know, I'm not sure he's the right avatar for

961
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:02,839
Speaker 1: the fight that the PA is trying to fight here

962
00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:04,840
Speaker 1: for sure.

963
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 3: For sure.

964
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:07,759
Speaker 7: So so in the article, you know, you mentioned how

965
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 7: Kyrie had followed this account on Instagram. Is there's some

966
00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:14,839
Speaker 7: real crazy shit about, like about how there's this conspiracy

967
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:18,720
Speaker 7: to upload you know, black people's information to the cloud

968
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:20,520
Speaker 7: for Satan or some shit. And you also mentioned that,

969
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 7: you know, it's not only just Kyrie's following on Instagram,

970
00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:27,280
Speaker 7: that that this you know, maderna micro chip misinformation campaign

971
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:28,919
Speaker 7: as you called it, has spread through you know, NBA

972
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:30,919
Speaker 7: players group chats and shit. I want to get into

973
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:32,960
Speaker 7: the crazy on that, like how deep is the motherfucking

974
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:37,440
Speaker 7: Satan Google's doc conspiracy going on amongst the NBA players

975
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:37,879
Speaker 7: right now.

976
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:41,560
Speaker 1: I mean when I was spending like a year and

977
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:44,120
Speaker 1: a half like embedded in the league, and you know,

978
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:46,840
Speaker 1: guys were telling me kind of not to be quoted

979
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:50,560
Speaker 1: about group chats and team group chats and links that

980
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 1: they're throwing in there, and there's like weird shit, right,

981
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:56,640
Speaker 1: I mean, you're talking about twenty to thirty five year

982
00:47:56,640 --> 00:48:01,640
Speaker 1: old men who maybe don't trust them for various reasons,

983
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:04,880
Speaker 1: maybe go down Instagram and YouTube rabbit holes, like Kyrie

984
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:07,920
Speaker 1: has admitted he did with the flat earther thing. You know,

985
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:10,280
Speaker 1: the thing about the lives of the rich and famous

986
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:12,400
Speaker 1: in the NBA, like they're just kind of sitting around

987
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:14,440
Speaker 1: the hotel room staring at their phone.

988
00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:16,520
Speaker 6: All the time. Like KD gets all this shit because

989
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:17,279
Speaker 6: that's what he does.

990
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:21,160
Speaker 1: I'm not saying he's some conspiracy theorist, but you know,

991
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:23,040
Speaker 1: I think it's the same stuff that a lot of

992
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:26,040
Speaker 1: people are seeing in the age of misinformation. You know,

993
00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:28,040
Speaker 1: I want to be clear that, like Kyrie definitely started

994
00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:33,239
Speaker 1: following this kind of nutcase conspiracy theorist and liking like

995
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:38,759
Speaker 1: posts that wasn't this particular mind control post, But I

996
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:39,920
Speaker 1: did hear from.

997
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:42,279
Speaker 6: You know about locker rooms.

998
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:44,919
Speaker 1: From players saying that this had made its way through

999
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:48,200
Speaker 1: multiple locker rooms, which you know, I keep coming back

1000
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:50,719
Speaker 1: to this part in my book where like it's it's

1001
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:54,120
Speaker 1: kind of introducing early on the Kyrie conspiracy, the Kyrie

1002
00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:56,719
Speaker 1: Flat earther thing. And then I talked to Instagram and

1003
00:48:56,760 --> 00:49:00,120
Speaker 1: they're like, yeah, he has more engagement on IG and

1004
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 1: Trump does, or did when he was still allowed on there.

1005
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:05,120
Speaker 1: And then I'm talking to the head of Instagram and

1006
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:07,120
Speaker 1: like the next paragraph and he's like, it's actually good

1007
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:11,480
Speaker 1: for you know, our our public figures to disagree on things,

1008
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:15,960
Speaker 1: and you know that that contrarianism is good. And then

1009
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:18,799
Speaker 1: fans of all ages will gravitate to where people they

1010
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:21,359
Speaker 1: find authentic and that means something to them.

1011
00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:23,520
Speaker 6: And I was like okay, And.

1012
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:25,120
Speaker 1: Then like the next paragraph, I'm talking to like the

1013
00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:28,319
Speaker 1: seventh grade star of Kyrie's old middle school basketball team,

1014
00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 1: and this kid is like, yeah, I love everything Kyrie posts,

1015
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:33,040
Speaker 1: even the really weird stuff, and so like it's just

1016
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:36,879
Speaker 1: this cycle of like misinformation and leadership and influence that

1017
00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:39,000
Speaker 1: like I've been thinking a lot about and now that

1018
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:41,440
Speaker 1: we're talking about like legit life and death and not

1019
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:43,760
Speaker 1: like flat earth stuff.

1020
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:47,200
Speaker 6: It's a little frightening, it's maybe maybe even dangerous.

1021
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:50,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean if I if I throw you into

1022
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:53,360
Speaker 2: Adam so we do one of those you know, mind swaps,

1023
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:55,560
Speaker 2: and I throw you into Adam Silver's body for a week.

1024
00:49:55,719 --> 00:49:58,920
Speaker 3: Like, I don't see how this is fixable personally.

1025
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:01,920
Speaker 2: Is there anything that you think the League could do too,

1026
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:04,840
Speaker 2: or the head of Instagram or the head of you know.

1027
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:07,759
Speaker 2: I mean, it is like it's such a huge problem,

1028
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:10,880
Speaker 2: that's so much bigger even than you know, a trillion

1029
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:14,200
Speaker 2: dollar NBA organization, Like, how do we get around this shit?

1030
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:17,160
Speaker 1: Well, I mean on Wednesday here, the you know, YouTube

1031
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:20,920
Speaker 1: announced that it's banning all vaccine misinformation from the whole platform,

1032
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:24,720
Speaker 1: you know, just to reduce the spread of this bullshit

1033
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:27,799
Speaker 1: about immunizations, which you know, these these vaccines are.

1034
00:50:27,719 --> 00:50:31,960
Speaker 6: Ninety percent efficacy. So Adam Silver, who I'm hoping to

1035
00:50:31,960 --> 00:50:32,440
Speaker 6: speak to in.

1036
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:35,080
Speaker 1: The coming days, he can't come out here and pull

1037
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:37,839
Speaker 1: an Obama or Biden where it's like an executive order

1038
00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:40,080
Speaker 1: to say you must do this. And I've I've run

1039
00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:44,040
Speaker 1: some of these scenarios by the very frustrated medical officers

1040
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:46,320
Speaker 1: of the NBA, who are like we're in a corner

1041
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:49,080
Speaker 1: because the union won't let us. And I'm like, okay,

1042
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:51,279
Speaker 1: but what if there's a Rudy Go Barns. What if

1043
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:53,920
Speaker 1: there's a completely preventable thing where you have a list

1044
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:56,160
Speaker 1: of the unvaccinated dudes in the league and one of

1045
00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:58,800
Speaker 1: them comes into close contact and this spreads across the trainers,

1046
00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:02,680
Speaker 1: the staff, some old head ref or whatever. And they're like, yeah,

1047
00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:04,279
Speaker 1: well that's the worst case scenario. I'm like, yeah, so

1048
00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:06,120
Speaker 1: what are you gonna do? Like, then, could Adam step in?

1049
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:11,480
Speaker 1: Is like they kind of, you know, want to admit that, Yes,

1050
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:13,239
Speaker 1: I mean, if it came to that, that then we

1051
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:15,360
Speaker 1: would have, you know, the type of thing where Adam

1052
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:16,919
Speaker 1: could just you know, he had shut down the league

1053
00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:17,360
Speaker 1: for Rudy.

1054
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:20,200
Speaker 6: You know, we could we could change some stuff as

1055
00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:22,200
Speaker 6: the science evolves. They say so, but.

1056
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:24,799
Speaker 2: They need the pr to be overwhelming. They needed to

1057
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:27,239
Speaker 2: be that big of a story that everyone's going, what

1058
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:28,560
Speaker 2: the fuck is happening.

1059
00:51:28,239 --> 00:51:30,359
Speaker 3: Here for that sort of executive action.

1060
00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:33,239
Speaker 1: But I'm I'm surprised that they're even riding it out now.

1061
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:34,520
Speaker 6: This has come to such a boil.

1062
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:38,320
Speaker 1: You know, I'm out here on like prime time cable

1063
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:42,560
Speaker 1: news trying to, you know, answer the question of okay,

1064
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:43,600
Speaker 1: like what.

1065
00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:46,279
Speaker 6: Are you gonna do? What? What? How do? How does

1066
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:48,680
Speaker 6: this thing end? And I'm telling you, guys, I was

1067
00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:50,200
Speaker 6: like swinging my daughter at the.

1068
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:54,200
Speaker 1: Playground yesterday on the like two phones with NBA sources,

1069
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:55,200
Speaker 1: the League, the PA.

1070
00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:57,160
Speaker 6: I'm like, what is happening? What are you going to do?

1071
00:51:57,200 --> 00:51:59,600
Speaker 1: And they're like, well, we're going to educate and we're

1072
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:05,120
Speaker 1: gonna keep sending data and advocate. And I think the

1073
00:52:05,160 --> 00:52:07,480
Speaker 1: big thing that they're adding other than depending on Lebron

1074
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:09,200
Speaker 1: James to say the right thing, which I don't know.

1075
00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:11,160
Speaker 1: He said, it's not my job, it's not political, which

1076
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:14,200
Speaker 1: is of course it's political. Of course this is political.

1077
00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:16,640
Speaker 1: But I think that the next piece for them is

1078
00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:22,680
Speaker 1: to make the lifestyles of the unvaccinated extraordinarily uncomfortable, turn

1079
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:25,480
Speaker 1: them basically into pariahs who can't do anything fun with

1080
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:27,719
Speaker 1: their family, who can't swing their kids in the playground

1081
00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:29,920
Speaker 1: right because they have to remain in this kind of

1082
00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:32,960
Speaker 1: hermetic seal to not get other people sick. If you're

1083
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:37,799
Speaker 1: basically in this hermetically sealed bubble, that's fine. If you're

1084
00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:39,640
Speaker 1: like a you know, if you're a twenty two year

1085
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:42,600
Speaker 1: old who likes to go to the club and you know,

1086
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:44,960
Speaker 1: hang out in the weight room with an og on

1087
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:47,880
Speaker 1: the team, Like maybe that convinces you to, you know,

1088
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:50,239
Speaker 1: see your better angels or whatever. But if I'm a

1089
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:54,040
Speaker 1: veteran who flies private anyway and not with the team,

1090
00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:57,239
Speaker 1: stays in my own you know, compound or house on

1091
00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:01,359
Speaker 1: the road anyway, I'm not sure that the NBA kind

1092
00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:04,560
Speaker 1: of forcing you into a corner is going to work.

1093
00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:06,360
Speaker 6: I'm not sure that Lebron.

1094
00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:09,000
Speaker 1: Is going to convince some guy who's stuck in his ways,

1095
00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:13,160
Speaker 1: who doesn't need to worry about missing money or being

1096
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 1: told what to do.

1097
00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:15,840
Speaker 6: And I think that's why Kyrie.

1098
00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:17,520
Speaker 1: I don't mean to keep harping on him just because

1099
00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:19,200
Speaker 1: I spent two years kind of inside his head for

1100
00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:22,279
Speaker 1: this book, But he's going to become the test of

1101
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:23,840
Speaker 1: whether this thing is going to hold out. And I

1102
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:26,920
Speaker 1: think if he shuts up, not you know, set up

1103
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:29,520
Speaker 1: and dribble, but like, if he stops his kind of

1104
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:32,319
Speaker 1: moral crusade here, then this might go away. I think

1105
00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:33,759
Speaker 1: that's kind of what the NBA is hoping, right, that

1106
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:35,120
Speaker 1: this goes away and people stay safe.

1107
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:39,080
Speaker 4: Talk about Adam Silver, what they're gonna what he's gonna do.

1108
00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:40,319
Speaker 4: We talk about what the NBA is going to do.

1109
00:53:40,840 --> 00:53:43,160
Speaker 4: What is Kyrie going to do now that YouTube is

1110
00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:47,319
Speaker 4: a leading page thirty four of YouTube searches and.

1111
00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:48,240
Speaker 5: Not get.

1112
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:51,879
Speaker 4: And getting rid of all of the bullshit. What will

1113
00:53:51,920 --> 00:53:53,600
Speaker 4: he do when he's stuck in his room? You know

1114
00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:54,160
Speaker 4: what I'm saying.

1115
00:53:54,920 --> 00:53:55,680
Speaker 6: He's used to it.

1116
00:53:55,719 --> 00:53:58,839
Speaker 1: Guys like this is a guy who has disappeared on

1117
00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:01,799
Speaker 1: his team, you know, so rankled certain guys on the

1118
00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:04,640
Speaker 1: Celtics that he would take like a personal day, but

1119
00:54:04,680 --> 00:54:07,000
Speaker 1: then he would take another personal day. And he's been

1120
00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:10,160
Speaker 1: very upfront about his mental health and needing time and

1121
00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:12,600
Speaker 1: this being a day job and how entertainers are not

1122
00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:16,359
Speaker 1: appreciated as human beings and not like I'm with all

1123
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:18,640
Speaker 1: of that, but like he disappeared on the nets in

1124
00:54:18,719 --> 00:54:20,759
Speaker 1: late twenty nineteen early twenty twenty because he had a

1125
00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:23,080
Speaker 1: shoulder injury and was just doing his own thing, and

1126
00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:25,440
Speaker 1: like people like his coach didn't know where the hell

1127
00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:25,920
Speaker 1: he was.

1128
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:28,520
Speaker 6: He was on an injury list or whatever. But like

1129
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:30,160
Speaker 6: he's used to disappearing, and.

1130
00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:34,719
Speaker 1: So I'm not sure that if he's skipping games or

1131
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:37,920
Speaker 1: being outside the arena or like watching from home, like

1132
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:41,680
Speaker 1: if that's really anything new to Kyrie Irving, who is

1133
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:43,840
Speaker 1: kind of used to doing this vanishing act on his

1134
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:46,759
Speaker 1: own terms and used to franchises and the league going

1135
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:48,680
Speaker 1: along with it. And I do think that the Nets,

1136
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:51,520
Speaker 1: while maybe are frustrated at the top or have been

1137
00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:55,560
Speaker 1: with similar things to this recently last season's kind of

1138
00:54:55,600 --> 00:54:57,560
Speaker 1: disappearing act, I.

1139
00:54:57,480 --> 00:54:58,959
Speaker 6: Don't think there's anything new for the Nets.

1140
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:01,000
Speaker 1: And they signed up for him, right like they signed

1141
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:02,839
Speaker 1: up for the big personality, they send up for another

1142
00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:06,440
Speaker 1: one with Harden, and so I think they've from what

1143
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:08,560
Speaker 1: I understand, done a pretty good job of convincing KD

1144
00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:09,799
Speaker 1: and James to.

1145
00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:12,400
Speaker 6: Get with the vacs.

1146
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:15,279
Speaker 1: And I think if they can lean on them, to

1147
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:17,640
Speaker 1: lean on Kyrie, then management doesn't have to get too

1148
00:55:17,680 --> 00:55:20,320
Speaker 1: involved or roll their eyes at another disappearing.

1149
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:21,759
Speaker 7: All right, So, Matt, I'm going back to what you

1150
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:23,640
Speaker 7: said a couple of minutes ago about how you know

1151
00:55:23,719 --> 00:55:26,160
Speaker 7: you think that this is a political issue. I'm not

1152
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:27,759
Speaker 7: sure if I necessarily agree with that. I do think

1153
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:30,440
Speaker 7: it's a public health issue that has been politicized. I

1154
00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:31,960
Speaker 7: do think, of course, you know, the rights on one

1155
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:33,440
Speaker 7: side of this, for the most part the lefts one

1156
00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:35,760
Speaker 7: side of this for the other most part as well.

1157
00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:37,440
Speaker 7: So just wonder if you give me some more insight

1158
00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:40,360
Speaker 7: into why you think this is specifically a political issue.

1159
00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:44,000
Speaker 1: I agree with you that it's a public health issue

1160
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:46,120
Speaker 1: that has been politicized. I don't think it needs to

1161
00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:49,879
Speaker 1: be political. I think everything has kind of split into

1162
00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:51,959
Speaker 1: lefts and right these days. And I think there's also

1163
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:56,680
Speaker 1: maybe a racial aspect that I probably don't understand the

1164
00:55:56,719 --> 00:55:59,719
Speaker 1: full extent of. There's an athlete aspect that you know,

1165
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:02,880
Speaker 1: the precious bodies and these guys, you know, have millions

1166
00:56:02,920 --> 00:56:05,520
Speaker 1: of dollars and their well being and their families riding

1167
00:56:05,600 --> 00:56:08,680
Speaker 1: on their health. So I don't I don't presume to

1168
00:56:08,719 --> 00:56:10,880
Speaker 1: understand all the calculations they're in.

1169
00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:13,640
Speaker 6: But I do think it's just kind of interesting.

1170
00:56:13,239 --> 00:56:14,560
Speaker 3: How Lebron.

1171
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:19,360
Speaker 1: As this kind of ultimate influencer of the entire culture

1172
00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:23,000
Speaker 1: and who blocks and tackles for certain players, but also

1173
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:25,719
Speaker 1: really just like there's a domino effect with all of

1174
00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:29,719
Speaker 1: his big decisions on political societal issues like this, And

1175
00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:31,200
Speaker 1: like I spent a lot of time in this in

1176
00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:35,320
Speaker 1: my book, Like Lebron and his team were there wearing

1177
00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:37,360
Speaker 1: hoodies in solid area with Trayvon.

1178
00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:38,719
Speaker 6: It's crazy, it's almost ten years ago.

1179
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:40,920
Speaker 1: But then you know, the mother of Tamir, Rice is like,

1180
00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:42,920
Speaker 1: well where was he when my son died miles from

1181
00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:45,680
Speaker 1: the arena. You know, I went through in my book

1182
00:56:45,719 --> 00:56:48,480
Speaker 1: with this whole saga after the Darryl Morey tweet and

1183
00:56:48,640 --> 00:56:50,360
Speaker 1: China and Stand with Hong Kong.

1184
00:56:50,200 --> 00:56:50,600
Speaker 6: And all that.

1185
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:52,680
Speaker 1: Lebron's like, Okay, I don't want to. I don't know

1186
00:56:52,680 --> 00:56:53,640
Speaker 1: anything about foreign policy.

1187
00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:54,480
Speaker 6: I'm not educated enough.

1188
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:57,080
Speaker 1: That's always his line, which is cool, Like it was

1189
00:56:57,120 --> 00:56:59,200
Speaker 1: complex foreign policy for me to understand too.

1190
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:01,600
Speaker 6: I would argue that you could do your research pretty

1191
00:57:01,640 --> 00:57:03,520
Speaker 6: fast and figure it out. And he has a Nike

1192
00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:06,600
Speaker 6: deal and I don't. But you know, I think it's

1193
00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:08,320
Speaker 6: a question of like whether we're.

1194
00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:10,919
Speaker 3: We're gonna we are going to get you a Nike deal.

1195
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:16,440
Speaker 3: Good luck with that.

1196
00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:19,960
Speaker 6: I think I'll just take another l on sneakers up.

1197
00:57:21,680 --> 00:57:28,440
Speaker 1: Like, but it's like, you know, these personal decisions that

1198
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:31,320
Speaker 1: have become a public.

1199
00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:33,080
Speaker 6: Health decision because it's not just personal.

1200
00:57:33,120 --> 00:57:35,600
Speaker 1: There are other people around you who are in danger

1201
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:38,800
Speaker 1: because you are unvaccinated, And so to say I'm not

1202
00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:41,480
Speaker 1: educated enough for its personal decision, Like when we're talking

1203
00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:44,680
Speaker 1: about a public health crisis. There's like a difference between

1204
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:48,520
Speaker 1: having an excuse like I'm not educated enough and an abdication.

1205
00:57:48,080 --> 00:57:51,760
Speaker 6: When you are Lebron James, when you are Janno Sante.

1206
00:57:51,560 --> 00:57:54,200
Speaker 1: Tokunpo right, And And I don't know, is this going

1207
00:57:54,280 --> 00:57:57,360
Speaker 1: to be an issue that a societal issue that you know,

1208
00:57:57,400 --> 00:58:00,480
Speaker 1: these ultimate influencers just lay down and refused the lead on.

1209
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:01,480
Speaker 6: I would be.

1210
00:58:01,400 --> 00:58:04,160
Speaker 1: Disappointed in the NBA, But maybe this is just a

1211
00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:07,720
Speaker 1: complex issue because of those complex factors behind the decision.

1212
00:58:08,120 --> 00:58:09,840
Speaker 6: I don't know. It's hard to tell sometimes with these guys.

1213
00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:13,640
Speaker 1: Lebron's so meticulous and he talks in circles sometimes, so

1214
00:58:13,680 --> 00:58:15,600
Speaker 1: you're not sure, like is he dodging this or does

1215
00:58:15,640 --> 00:58:18,200
Speaker 1: he actually feel this way you talked.

1216
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:19,880
Speaker 4: About I mean, well, you wrote about Kareem. You had

1217
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:23,040
Speaker 4: like some coach from Kareem. I'm in the article, and

1218
00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:27,919
Speaker 4: you know he's a guy that's well respected historically by

1219
00:58:28,080 --> 00:58:33,040
Speaker 4: you know, basically everybody. Do these players like these days

1220
00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:36,560
Speaker 4: care about what a Kareem thinks? Like he said some

1221
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:40,720
Speaker 4: pretty direct you know as some pretty direct shots you

1222
00:58:40,760 --> 00:58:42,960
Speaker 4: know with what he was as far as what he

1223
00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:44,920
Speaker 4: was saying. Did were they you think they were affected

1224
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:47,640
Speaker 4: or maybe anybody swayed by what he said.

1225
00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:51,320
Speaker 1: I feel like Kareem in particular may have kind of

1226
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:55,320
Speaker 1: graduated into this like off theeal chin scratching figure. Like

1227
00:58:55,440 --> 00:58:58,400
Speaker 1: you guys watch Dave on FX, there's an episode where

1228
00:58:58,440 --> 00:59:01,439
Speaker 1: like Kareem, like Dave doesn't realize he's about to get

1229
00:59:01,480 --> 00:59:03,480
Speaker 1: like an article written about him by Kareem and just

1230
00:59:03,520 --> 00:59:07,920
Speaker 1: like to right, but like somehow like Bill Russell right,

1231
00:59:08,040 --> 00:59:10,520
Speaker 1: Like in my book, there's a scene where Kyrie is

1232
00:59:10,560 --> 00:59:12,960
Speaker 1: sitting down listening to Bill Russell. Zach Lavine sitting around

1233
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:16,080
Speaker 1: the campfire and some secret gym, and they're listening to

1234
00:59:16,080 --> 00:59:20,160
Speaker 1: Bill Russell give him advice. But as Jamal Crawford was

1235
00:59:20,160 --> 00:59:22,080
Speaker 1: reminding me of that scene, like these guys are pushing

1236
00:59:22,120 --> 00:59:25,200
Speaker 1: back too. It's like, you know, we've had enough of

1237
00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:27,320
Speaker 1: some of this stuff. We're going to stand up for

1238
00:59:27,440 --> 00:59:31,400
Speaker 1: what we believe in that isn't necessarily just joining the

1239
00:59:31,400 --> 00:59:32,640
Speaker 1: good fight for the sake of it.

1240
00:59:33,240 --> 00:59:35,280
Speaker 6: We're not just going to retweet, We're going to do action.

1241
00:59:35,400 --> 00:59:38,080
Speaker 1: And yet here I am seeing these guys equivocate on

1242
00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:38,960
Speaker 1: this stuff.

1243
00:59:38,680 --> 00:59:41,600
Speaker 6: And I don't know, like, where is the Kareem of today?

1244
00:59:42,120 --> 00:59:44,840
Speaker 1: You know, Jalen Brown strikes me as like that kind

1245
00:59:44,840 --> 00:59:47,520
Speaker 1: of guy who could who could take up that mantle.

1246
00:59:47,600 --> 00:59:50,919
Speaker 1: But I don't think he wants to fight this fight either,

1247
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:53,040
Speaker 1: and so that's why it's just an imperfect issue in

1248
00:59:53,120 --> 00:59:57,120
Speaker 1: terms of our kind of intellectuals of the league.

1249
00:59:57,560 --> 01:00:00,320
Speaker 4: Jalen Brown is so young and he's not like Kareem

1250
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:03,360
Speaker 4: is god teer like in basketball and just happens to be,

1251
01:00:03,960 --> 01:00:06,439
Speaker 4: you know, so fucking smart, you know what I mean,

1252
01:00:06,560 --> 01:00:07,160
Speaker 4: So like.

1253
01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:11,080
Speaker 1: Hard Brad smart, he's Brad bel is out here leading

1254
01:00:11,120 --> 01:00:13,760
Speaker 1: protests in the streets with Natasha Cloud and now she

1255
01:00:13,880 --> 01:00:17,160
Speaker 1: needs us like at like at him on Twitter saying like, yo,

1256
01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:18,600
Speaker 1: you are dead ass wrong.

1257
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:20,760
Speaker 6: So it's just hard.

1258
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:23,920
Speaker 1: For these guys to be intellectual leaders on everything. But

1259
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:26,040
Speaker 1: Kareem did spell it out pretty clearly.

1260
01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:28,840
Speaker 6: That like, you know, you're you're not moving.

1261
01:00:28,680 --> 01:00:29,439
Speaker 3: It was pretty clear.

1262
01:00:30,680 --> 01:00:33,720
Speaker 4: It was more clear y'all looking really stupid out here?

1263
01:00:33,840 --> 01:00:38,000
Speaker 5: You feel what I'm saying, Like in the Kareem way,

1264
01:00:38,080 --> 01:00:40,480
Speaker 5: of course, you know what I mean. It's weloquent about it,

1265
01:00:40,520 --> 01:00:42,320
Speaker 5: but yeah.

1266
01:00:42,160 --> 01:00:44,680
Speaker 6: We'll see. I don't know if there's another cream out

1267
01:00:44,720 --> 01:00:45,160
Speaker 6: there right now.

1268
01:00:46,200 --> 01:00:49,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I mean those quotes were like I'm

1269
01:00:49,200 --> 01:00:51,600
Speaker 2: sure you. I'm sure you were fist pumping like a

1270
01:00:51,600 --> 01:00:55,240
Speaker 2: fucking maniac when you know when you.

1271
01:00:55,200 --> 01:00:57,040
Speaker 3: Got Cause it's like that those quotes are the hot

1272
01:00:57,120 --> 01:00:58,040
Speaker 3: knife through all the butter.

1273
01:00:58,160 --> 01:01:01,520
Speaker 2: Right, It's just like and we we we spent basically

1274
01:01:01,560 --> 01:01:05,240
Speaker 2: our whole last episode talking about your article, and that's

1275
01:01:05,240 --> 01:01:05,720
Speaker 2: what we said.

1276
01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:08,000
Speaker 3: It's like there's all this nuance right there.

1277
01:01:08,000 --> 01:01:11,480
Speaker 2: As you mentioned in the story, like Lebron is always

1278
01:01:11,520 --> 01:01:14,320
Speaker 2: thinking about being a leader of the black community, and

1279
01:01:14,360 --> 01:01:16,520
Speaker 2: you mentioned in the story like black people are the

1280
01:01:16,600 --> 01:01:20,640
Speaker 2: least vaccinated racial subgroup in America, so he's absolutely thinking

1281
01:01:20,640 --> 01:01:23,520
Speaker 2: about that. There's all this context on trusting the system,

1282
01:01:23,600 --> 01:01:26,120
Speaker 2: not trusting the system labor.

1283
01:01:26,640 --> 01:01:30,440
Speaker 6: But I also think, like the CDC says that, but.

1284
01:01:30,320 --> 01:01:34,200
Speaker 1: Then like the Washington Post pole says that the black

1285
01:01:34,480 --> 01:01:38,120
Speaker 1: identifying demographic also says that they're the least likely to

1286
01:01:38,160 --> 01:01:41,200
Speaker 1: get the shot, like kind of unconvincible. And so maybe

1287
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:43,000
Speaker 1: Lebron's people look at that and say, you know, this

1288
01:01:43,040 --> 01:01:45,280
Speaker 1: is my ultimate demo. This is these are people buying

1289
01:01:45,280 --> 01:01:48,760
Speaker 1: my sneakers and buying my jerseys and trust so that

1290
01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:49,640
Speaker 1: and tell them what to do.

1291
01:01:49,840 --> 01:01:53,560
Speaker 2: Someone texting me in response to our article, like Lebron

1292
01:01:53,640 --> 01:01:56,440
Speaker 2: is doing a Republicans by sneakers too, And I said, actually,

1293
01:01:56,480 --> 01:01:59,160
Speaker 2: that's not what he's doing, like like, this is not

1294
01:01:59,280 --> 01:02:03,600
Speaker 2: Republicans by sneakers too, this is my people by sneakers.

1295
01:02:04,080 --> 01:02:06,000
Speaker 3: Like I'm aligned with my people.

1296
01:02:06,080 --> 01:02:09,080
Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, there's not like there's not an opposite

1297
01:02:09,640 --> 01:02:12,160
Speaker 2: there's not an opposite aisle thing. But but what I

1298
01:02:12,240 --> 01:02:15,120
Speaker 2: was saying was there's all that, there's all the context

1299
01:02:15,200 --> 01:02:17,400
Speaker 2: and nuance or whatever around the issue, and then there's

1300
01:02:17,440 --> 01:02:20,680
Speaker 2: Kareem just saying, yeah, we have to get the fucking vaccine,

1301
01:02:20,920 --> 01:02:21,800
Speaker 2: don't be any you know what.

1302
01:02:21,840 --> 01:02:24,320
Speaker 3: I like those quotes were sort of the like.

1303
01:02:25,960 --> 01:02:28,040
Speaker 2: I kind of needed that, I think, because when you

1304
01:02:28,080 --> 01:02:30,120
Speaker 2: wade into all the back and forth on this stuff

1305
01:02:30,200 --> 01:02:33,240
Speaker 2: societally and in the NBA and in your article, it's

1306
01:02:33,360 --> 01:02:35,960
Speaker 2: valuable to have that one leader to just say.

1307
01:02:35,880 --> 01:02:37,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know we talking about you know, who I

1308
01:02:37,640 --> 01:02:40,760
Speaker 1: thought was great was was Dame, who was like and

1309
01:02:40,880 --> 01:02:42,320
Speaker 1: I was trying to talk to Dame to be that

1310
01:02:42,440 --> 01:02:45,040
Speaker 1: kind of adult in the room, and our schedules didn't

1311
01:02:45,040 --> 01:02:45,640
Speaker 1: work out.

1312
01:02:45,480 --> 01:02:48,360
Speaker 6: For annoying reasons on my own, but you know, Dame.

1313
01:02:48,240 --> 01:02:50,920
Speaker 1: Said in Media Day, like yo, yeah, I got the shot,

1314
01:02:51,120 --> 01:02:53,040
Speaker 1: like I got to protect my family.

1315
01:02:53,520 --> 01:02:55,440
Speaker 6: I got flu shots when I was a kid. I

1316
01:02:55,480 --> 01:02:56,800
Speaker 6: didn't know what the hell that was.

1317
01:02:56,840 --> 01:02:59,560
Speaker 1: I still can't explain like the research behind the flu

1318
01:02:59,600 --> 01:03:01,440
Speaker 1: shot and this is saving lives, which I thought was

1319
01:03:01,480 --> 01:03:05,680
Speaker 1: like a very practical answer, as just like not him

1320
01:03:05,680 --> 01:03:07,960
Speaker 1: not being a medical expert, nor claiming he could be one,

1321
01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:10,120
Speaker 1: Like yeah, he's got a very pristine body and he's

1322
01:03:10,160 --> 01:03:12,400
Speaker 1: around medical experts and sports scientists all day.

1323
01:03:12,680 --> 01:03:14,000
Speaker 6: But I think I don't know.

1324
01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:16,240
Speaker 1: You guys are out here on NBA Twitter a lot

1325
01:03:16,240 --> 01:03:18,000
Speaker 1: more than I do engaging, But like you ever see

1326
01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:20,600
Speaker 1: how hoopers when they get at it with fans like

1327
01:03:20,600 --> 01:03:22,760
Speaker 1: the Kds of the world, they're like, yo, you don't

1328
01:03:22,760 --> 01:03:25,800
Speaker 1: know shit about hooping, like you maxed out in JV

1329
01:03:26,560 --> 01:03:28,920
Speaker 1: and like okay, But then how all of a sudden

1330
01:03:29,000 --> 01:03:32,720
Speaker 1: are these guys experts in medical science like you maxed

1331
01:03:32,720 --> 01:03:33,560
Speaker 1: out of.

1332
01:03:33,440 --> 01:03:35,720
Speaker 6: One year out of Duke, you know, like you don't

1333
01:03:35,720 --> 01:03:36,920
Speaker 6: know shit about science.

1334
01:03:38,000 --> 01:03:41,600
Speaker 1: So to claim like this research I'm researching it, I

1335
01:03:41,640 --> 01:03:44,840
Speaker 1: don't know enough is ultimately like a cop out that

1336
01:03:44,920 --> 01:03:47,560
Speaker 1: I question as like a serious journalists, like are you

1337
01:03:47,600 --> 01:03:50,280
Speaker 1: basically just saying no, I'm not vaccinated by saying I'm

1338
01:03:50,280 --> 01:03:53,240
Speaker 1: doing my research, like it seems like a cop out

1339
01:03:53,320 --> 01:03:55,320
Speaker 1: of people who claim to be a know it all

1340
01:03:55,640 --> 01:03:57,760
Speaker 1: and really are being.

1341
01:03:57,560 --> 01:04:00,200
Speaker 6: Potentially failed real role models as creams us.

1342
01:04:00,960 --> 01:04:04,880
Speaker 5: I think Kyrie's problem is that he went to do you.

1343
01:04:04,840 --> 01:04:08,960
Speaker 4: Know, so you're not gonna get me an, I'm a fan,

1344
01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:13,360
Speaker 4: but I think I think that's that's that's part of

1345
01:04:13,360 --> 01:04:13,880
Speaker 4: his problem.

1346
01:04:13,920 --> 01:04:16,080
Speaker 6: But no comments.

1347
01:04:18,120 --> 01:04:20,920
Speaker 7: I think a bigger part of that problem is that,

1348
01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:25,040
Speaker 7: you know, during the last five years or so, you know,

1349
01:04:25,120 --> 01:04:27,200
Speaker 7: during the whole you know, how the country got splitting

1350
01:04:27,240 --> 01:04:29,160
Speaker 7: part with the whole Trump shit. It's it's been this

1351
01:04:29,200 --> 01:04:33,280
Speaker 7: whole movement of you know, respecting everyone's right to their opinion,

1352
01:04:33,840 --> 01:04:35,320
Speaker 7: and I think we progress to the point where we

1353
01:04:35,360 --> 01:04:38,560
Speaker 7: do not we put experts opinions on the same level

1354
01:04:38,880 --> 01:04:41,560
Speaker 7: with dudes who don't know shit, you know what I mean? Like, like, bro,

1355
01:04:41,680 --> 01:04:44,120
Speaker 7: a scientist knows more about science than you, a doctor

1356
01:04:44,160 --> 01:04:46,720
Speaker 7: knows more about health than you, A fucking mechanic knows

1357
01:04:46,720 --> 01:04:48,560
Speaker 7: more about cars and you. A farmer knows more about

1358
01:04:48,600 --> 01:04:50,840
Speaker 7: agriculture than you, you know what I mean? So like, like,

1359
01:04:51,040 --> 01:04:53,240
Speaker 7: I think that that we've arrived at the point from

1360
01:04:53,360 --> 01:04:55,560
Speaker 7: where we wanted to hear everyone out during the whole

1361
01:04:55,600 --> 01:04:57,800
Speaker 7: you know, the vocal minority ship, during the Trump ship.

1362
01:04:57,840 --> 01:05:00,000
Speaker 7: I think that's all snowballed into into this ship now

1363
01:05:00,040 --> 01:05:02,360
Speaker 7: out where where where a lot of people do not

1364
01:05:02,640 --> 01:05:07,280
Speaker 7: view the opinions and the assertions of experts as holding weight.

1365
01:05:08,120 --> 01:05:10,760
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, I'm just scared of reach. I totally

1366
01:05:10,760 --> 01:05:11,360
Speaker 6: agree with all that.

1367
01:05:11,840 --> 01:05:15,320
Speaker 1: I'm just scared of arriving at the moment where whatever

1368
01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:18,720
Speaker 1: Kyrie does next, if it is kind of an extreme

1369
01:05:19,400 --> 01:05:25,040
Speaker 1: moral crusade masked by his interpretation of the facts of

1370
01:05:25,640 --> 01:05:29,720
Speaker 1: a pandemic, is Kyrie getting us to the it's okay

1371
01:05:29,760 --> 01:05:31,120
Speaker 1: to drink bleach.

1372
01:05:31,200 --> 01:05:34,360
Speaker 6: Moment and embodying some of that.

1373
01:05:36,320 --> 01:05:39,680
Speaker 1: You know that following But amongst kids, impressionable kids. This

1374
01:05:39,800 --> 01:05:42,880
Speaker 1: isn't right wingers who are reading Breitbart all day. These

1375
01:05:42,920 --> 01:05:45,480
Speaker 1: are people who are like, oh, maybe I shouldn't get

1376
01:05:45,520 --> 01:05:48,560
Speaker 1: the vaccine to go back to school, or mom, why

1377
01:05:48,760 --> 01:05:50,960
Speaker 1: like Grandma, why are you getting that? You know, it's

1378
01:05:51,000 --> 01:05:54,520
Speaker 1: just like it's a misinformation campaign among people who need

1379
01:05:54,560 --> 01:05:57,720
Speaker 1: to hear real information. And honestly, I think the most

1380
01:05:57,760 --> 01:06:00,720
Speaker 1: important person in this whole crisis right now, Kevin Durant,

1381
01:06:00,840 --> 01:06:02,400
Speaker 1: just like telling his buddy to suck it up.

1382
01:06:03,360 --> 01:06:06,800
Speaker 3: Well, and it's I agree with your concern around that.

1383
01:06:06,880 --> 01:06:08,760
Speaker 2: And I thought it was a great decision to close

1384
01:06:08,800 --> 01:06:13,600
Speaker 2: the story with the anecdote of him visiting the reservation.

1385
01:06:14,320 --> 01:06:16,800
Speaker 2: And you know, we were talking about racial subgroups. American

1386
01:06:16,840 --> 01:06:20,320
Speaker 2: Indians are the most vaccinated racial subgroup in the country,

1387
01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:25,240
Speaker 2: specifically because of how devastated the reservations were by the virus.

1388
01:06:25,320 --> 01:06:29,280
Speaker 2: And I thought that was sort of the ultimate indictment.

1389
01:06:29,800 --> 01:06:31,600
Speaker 2: And you know, you didn't you didn't write.

1390
01:06:31,440 --> 01:06:31,880
Speaker 3: A hit piece.

1391
01:06:31,920 --> 01:06:34,600
Speaker 2: You wrote a very good, fair, sort of look at

1392
01:06:34,840 --> 01:06:37,320
Speaker 2: exactly what's going on. But that was to me, that

1393
01:06:37,440 --> 01:06:39,800
Speaker 2: was the part that hit me the hardest. Was Yeah, man, like,

1394
01:06:39,960 --> 01:06:42,000
Speaker 2: I've read quite a bit about what's been going on,

1395
01:06:42,040 --> 01:06:44,600
Speaker 2: and the fact that he went to one of those

1396
01:06:44,600 --> 01:06:47,440
Speaker 2: places and said, well, your actual reality doesn't matter to

1397
01:06:47,480 --> 01:06:52,760
Speaker 2: me because I have these opinions was kind of shocking.

1398
01:06:53,120 --> 01:06:55,520
Speaker 6: That's hard. Kyrie does a lot of good stuff.

1399
01:06:55,560 --> 01:06:57,720
Speaker 1: You know, his aunt who kind of went off on

1400
01:06:57,760 --> 01:07:00,400
Speaker 1: some of these she just went off and just kind

1401
01:07:00,400 --> 01:07:01,040
Speaker 1: of listen.

1402
01:07:01,920 --> 01:07:03,800
Speaker 7: When she dropped that doctor falsey behind.

1403
01:07:08,000 --> 01:07:09,680
Speaker 1: Sure, I want to interrupt her and just like start

1404
01:07:09,760 --> 01:07:12,560
Speaker 1: dropping science on her, but whatever, I let her, like

1405
01:07:12,640 --> 01:07:14,520
Speaker 1: Jonathan Iay, just kind of go off the deep end

1406
01:07:14,560 --> 01:07:18,440
Speaker 1: on their own. But you know, I think Kyrie and

1407
01:07:18,480 --> 01:07:20,520
Speaker 1: his aunt have done a lot of good for the world.

1408
01:07:21,160 --> 01:07:23,520
Speaker 1: It's just like it's always been Kay's problem, like he

1409
01:07:23,600 --> 01:07:27,840
Speaker 1: can't message the good. He can only message the out there,

1410
01:07:28,320 --> 01:07:31,680
Speaker 1: and he goes off on these wild tangents. And maybe

1411
01:07:31,680 --> 01:07:33,520
Speaker 1: in some ways he's trying to remain quiet right now

1412
01:07:33,560 --> 01:07:35,800
Speaker 1: so he doesn't go off on one of those things.

1413
01:07:35,840 --> 01:07:37,640
Speaker 1: I think he needs to stay on message. It's why

1414
01:07:37,720 --> 01:07:40,200
Speaker 1: instead of doing Media Day last year, he wanted to

1415
01:07:40,240 --> 01:07:43,360
Speaker 1: release some press statement of his own, or do stuff

1416
01:07:43,360 --> 01:07:47,200
Speaker 1: on his own platform, or host these weird ig live

1417
01:07:47,440 --> 01:07:51,040
Speaker 1: q and as with KD while sitting with incense in

1418
01:07:51,080 --> 01:07:53,440
Speaker 1: his like behind his Bosquiocht style.

1419
01:07:53,200 --> 01:07:54,400
Speaker 6: Paintings of his own creation.

1420
01:07:54,560 --> 01:07:56,800
Speaker 1: And I wonder if he'll come back a little more

1421
01:07:56,800 --> 01:07:59,320
Speaker 1: on message and honestly, maybe a little more locked in.

1422
01:07:59,360 --> 01:08:00,800
Speaker 6: I mean, we don't know what this grand plan is.

1423
01:08:00,800 --> 01:08:02,760
Speaker 1: It may just be like he's going to get the shot,

1424
01:08:02,800 --> 01:08:04,160
Speaker 1: he needs some time to inoculate.

1425
01:08:04,200 --> 01:08:05,520
Speaker 6: He's going to get back on the court. It's going

1426
01:08:05,560 --> 01:08:07,760
Speaker 6: to be fine, and then that's going to win the championship.

1427
01:08:07,760 --> 01:08:09,680
Speaker 1: That could very well be the plan, and Kyrie will

1428
01:08:09,680 --> 01:08:11,320
Speaker 1: say on message, I think we're getting a little ahead

1429
01:08:11,320 --> 01:08:13,400
Speaker 1: of ourselves to say, well, he's going to quit the

1430
01:08:13,400 --> 01:08:15,440
Speaker 1: whole season and he's gonna lose eight point nine million

1431
01:08:15,480 --> 01:08:17,960
Speaker 1: dollars because the league put out this threatening statement. I

1432
01:08:18,000 --> 01:08:20,479
Speaker 1: don't think anybody other than like a couple of guys

1433
01:08:20,479 --> 01:08:22,080
Speaker 1: on the nets and the GM really know what the

1434
01:08:22,080 --> 01:08:22,680
Speaker 1: hell's going on.

1435
01:08:23,640 --> 01:08:26,600
Speaker 5: You talked about Jonathan Isaac. He said he was misrepresented.

1436
01:08:28,479 --> 01:08:29,960
Speaker 5: How do you How do you feel about that statement?

1437
01:08:29,960 --> 01:08:31,479
Speaker 5: I think on media Day he said that.

1438
01:08:31,520 --> 01:08:34,280
Speaker 2: People always say they're misrepresented when they end up looking

1439
01:08:34,320 --> 01:08:35,760
Speaker 2: fucking stupid, and.

1440
01:08:35,800 --> 01:08:38,519
Speaker 4: It came with a very you know, buttoned up, pr

1441
01:08:38,960 --> 01:08:41,719
Speaker 4: you know, uh statement, how do you feel?

1442
01:08:42,000 --> 01:08:42,280
Speaker 3: I think?

1443
01:08:42,320 --> 01:08:45,400
Speaker 1: I think Jonathan is a very well spoken guy. It

1444
01:08:45,439 --> 01:08:49,559
Speaker 1: then surprised me that he had a defense of that.

1445
01:08:49,680 --> 01:08:52,479
Speaker 1: I mean, I think he also said that his tweet

1446
01:08:52,479 --> 01:08:54,880
Speaker 1: that he put out there saying true journalism is dead

1447
01:08:54,960 --> 01:08:58,280
Speaker 1: exclamation mark like more to come, period, which doesn't make

1448
01:08:58,320 --> 01:09:00,559
Speaker 1: sense because when you say period, then you say more

1449
01:09:00,560 --> 01:09:00,880
Speaker 1: to come.

1450
01:09:00,920 --> 01:09:01,880
Speaker 6: That doesn't really make sense.

1451
01:09:02,760 --> 01:09:16,080
Speaker 1: But he's entitled to defend himself and he's entitled his opinion.

1452
01:09:16,160 --> 01:09:19,240
Speaker 1: I really just hit his part of the story in particular.

1453
01:09:19,240 --> 01:09:20,920
Speaker 1: I just tried to let it breathe for himself. You know,

1454
01:09:21,000 --> 01:09:24,760
Speaker 1: I couldn't quote stack quote on top of quote to

1455
01:09:24,760 --> 01:09:27,360
Speaker 1: describe his kind of back and forth thinking of like, Okay,

1456
01:09:27,400 --> 01:09:30,040
Speaker 1: he was watching Donald Trump press conferences, he was looking

1457
01:09:30,080 --> 01:09:33,719
Speaker 1: into stuff about the likes of Tuskegee. He was starting

1458
01:09:33,720 --> 01:09:37,000
Speaker 1: to distrust fauci On by watching these press conferences in quarantine.

1459
01:09:37,000 --> 01:09:39,559
Speaker 1: I mean, he's kind of questioning that stuff, saying like

1460
01:09:39,600 --> 01:09:42,400
Speaker 1: I did not come to my conclusion from watching Donald Trump.

1461
01:09:42,439 --> 01:09:43,240
Speaker 6: It's not what I say at all.

1462
01:09:43,280 --> 01:09:46,559
Speaker 1: I'm just kind of walking his thought process, which I mean,

1463
01:09:46,680 --> 01:09:49,400
Speaker 1: you know, I went back over the tape and the transcript,

1464
01:09:49,400 --> 01:09:51,200
Speaker 1: and you know, he just that's how he laid it

1465
01:09:51,200 --> 01:09:51,479
Speaker 1: out there.

1466
01:09:51,479 --> 01:09:51,720
Speaker 6: I was.

1467
01:09:51,800 --> 01:09:54,519
Speaker 1: I was shocked when he's like saying that, you know,

1468
01:09:54,640 --> 01:09:57,120
Speaker 1: vaccinated people have to wear masks some places, but then

1469
01:09:57,120 --> 01:09:58,720
Speaker 1: they don't wear it others, Like why do you have

1470
01:09:58,760 --> 01:10:00,920
Speaker 1: to wear a mask? It's like, dude, if you don't

1471
01:10:01,000 --> 01:10:03,120
Speaker 1: understand by now why people need to wear a mask,

1472
01:10:03,200 --> 01:10:05,320
Speaker 1: like you are not doing any research, and he's claiming

1473
01:10:05,320 --> 01:10:07,439
Speaker 1: to do research. Come to his decision. And look, he's

1474
01:10:07,439 --> 01:10:09,960
Speaker 1: a man of God, he is entitled to his religious freedom.

1475
01:10:10,120 --> 01:10:12,360
Speaker 1: That's fine. That this was for balance. I was not

1476
01:10:12,360 --> 01:10:14,479
Speaker 1: trying to come out here and get him. I just

1477
01:10:14,520 --> 01:10:16,600
Speaker 1: he struck me as a contrarian person based.

1478
01:10:16,360 --> 01:10:19,960
Speaker 6: On standing up for the national anthem with.

1479
01:10:19,880 --> 01:10:22,240
Speaker 1: That start on, and so I got you know, I

1480
01:10:22,240 --> 01:10:23,680
Speaker 1: gave a call and he wanted to talk about it.

1481
01:10:23,720 --> 01:10:24,439
Speaker 6: And I think that's the thing.

1482
01:10:24,520 --> 01:10:27,880
Speaker 1: Certain people are very you know, strong in their convictions,

1483
01:10:27,920 --> 01:10:29,280
Speaker 1: and they're the people who are going to want to

1484
01:10:29,280 --> 01:10:30,679
Speaker 1: speak out on what's a thorny issue.

1485
01:10:30,680 --> 01:10:32,519
Speaker 6: That if I had that Nike deal that.

1486
01:10:32,439 --> 01:10:34,120
Speaker 1: You guys are getting me, you know, I might I

1487
01:10:34,160 --> 01:10:35,639
Speaker 1: might be a little careful about it too.

1488
01:10:37,680 --> 01:10:39,880
Speaker 7: I do think contrarianism is at the root of a

1489
01:10:39,880 --> 01:10:42,240
Speaker 7: lot of it. I think that a lot of people

1490
01:10:42,320 --> 01:10:45,040
Speaker 7: think that, you know, being a contrarian is how they

1491
01:10:45,040 --> 01:10:47,760
Speaker 7: display their intelligence to people. I mean, you take a

1492
01:10:47,760 --> 01:10:50,800
Speaker 7: look at Kyrie, right. Kyrie was anti bubble over first, right,

1493
01:10:50,840 --> 01:10:52,840
Speaker 7: he was he was like, Okay, you know it was

1494
01:10:53,040 --> 01:10:54,840
Speaker 7: not safe to do all this is not safe to

1495
01:10:54,960 --> 01:10:58,080
Speaker 7: you know, be be confined and play basketball. Now he

1496
01:10:58,120 --> 01:11:00,559
Speaker 7: doesn't give a shit about safety measures, right, because that's

1497
01:11:00,720 --> 01:11:02,880
Speaker 7: just because he's moving away from the side of that now,

1498
01:11:03,320 --> 01:11:06,840
Speaker 7: so you know, with with with with that being said, like,

1499
01:11:06,880 --> 01:11:09,920
Speaker 7: have you gotten any information from from guys, from your

1500
01:11:09,960 --> 01:11:12,479
Speaker 7: sources about how a lot of people just kind of

1501
01:11:12,560 --> 01:11:14,519
Speaker 7: view these guys as just contrarians like blowing hot a

1502
01:11:14,840 --> 01:11:16,800
Speaker 7: or or do people kind of you know, think that

1503
01:11:16,840 --> 01:11:19,120
Speaker 7: these guys are really fighting on on a principle here.

1504
01:11:19,439 --> 01:11:21,360
Speaker 1: I think it was really interesting as I tried to

1505
01:11:21,400 --> 01:11:24,760
Speaker 1: kind of reconstruct that call that Kyrie you know, had

1506
01:11:24,800 --> 01:11:27,040
Speaker 1: with a bunch of players, where I think ESPN called

1507
01:11:27,080 --> 01:11:30,720
Speaker 1: him the disruptor and he was trying to gather as

1508
01:11:30,760 --> 01:11:34,360
Speaker 1: many people as possible, and there were the practical folks

1509
01:11:34,560 --> 01:11:39,960
Speaker 1: like Chris Paul, you know, the kind of politicians of

1510
01:11:40,000 --> 01:11:42,960
Speaker 1: the NBA on one side, and then there's the contrarian

1511
01:11:43,040 --> 01:11:45,080
Speaker 1: side who were on kind of team Kai, right, he

1512
01:11:45,160 --> 01:11:48,439
Speaker 1: got Avery Bradley, Dwight Howard who was pointed out to

1513
01:11:48,479 --> 01:11:52,439
Speaker 1: me it was never into these political issues until last summer,

1514
01:11:52,680 --> 01:11:54,840
Speaker 1: Dwight Howard, who the other day said I changed my

1515
01:11:54,960 --> 01:11:58,960
Speaker 1: mind because of hippa, and I think, like, Okay, that's not.

1516
01:11:58,920 --> 01:12:01,240
Speaker 6: How hippa works, which I love.

1517
01:12:02,200 --> 01:12:03,840
Speaker 1: I love follow up questions like that as long as

1518
01:12:03,840 --> 01:12:08,400
Speaker 1: they're not from David Letterman but I do agree with

1519
01:12:08,439 --> 01:12:12,360
Speaker 1: you that there is this contrarian to be contrarian crowd

1520
01:12:12,160 --> 01:12:15,519
Speaker 1: that does mimic America, as the NBA so often does.

1521
01:12:15,560 --> 01:12:18,040
Speaker 1: And I thought that was the ultimate kind of cauldron

1522
01:12:18,120 --> 01:12:20,600
Speaker 1: of that was like the guys who were boycotting the

1523
01:12:20,640 --> 01:12:24,559
Speaker 1: bubble to be filing a good fight, certainly, but to

1524
01:12:24,560 --> 01:12:27,240
Speaker 1: be rebellious and then like mellow and some other kind

1525
01:12:27,320 --> 01:12:30,560
Speaker 1: of og centrists almost.

1526
01:12:30,320 --> 01:12:32,280
Speaker 6: On that call were like, okay, like great, but like

1527
01:12:32,280 --> 01:12:32,920
Speaker 6: what are we going.

1528
01:12:32,840 --> 01:12:34,599
Speaker 1: To do outside of the bubble, Like are you actually

1529
01:12:34,640 --> 01:12:36,960
Speaker 1: going to go like pull a Jalen Brown and like

1530
01:12:37,439 --> 01:12:40,040
Speaker 1: drive to a protest and lead it and like call

1531
01:12:40,120 --> 01:12:42,160
Speaker 1: out people? Are you going to like do your Kyrie

1532
01:12:42,160 --> 01:12:45,240
Speaker 1: thing behind the scenes here? Like you know, like Kyrie

1533
01:12:45,280 --> 01:12:46,640
Speaker 1: could have gone to the bubble and still bought a

1534
01:12:46,640 --> 01:12:49,720
Speaker 1: house for the family of George Floyd, Right, So I

1535
01:12:49,720 --> 01:12:52,040
Speaker 1: think it's that kind of like how do you unify

1536
01:12:52,120 --> 01:12:55,519
Speaker 1: the contrarians and the pragmatists in the middle. And I've

1537
01:12:55,520 --> 01:12:57,439
Speaker 1: talked to Andre Wudal about this lot because I think

1538
01:12:57,680 --> 01:12:59,559
Speaker 1: he knows how to thread the needles like this player's

1539
01:12:59,600 --> 01:13:01,719
Speaker 1: union guy. But he's also I think he was saying

1540
01:13:01,720 --> 01:13:03,880
Speaker 1: to me, like for my book, like you can't be

1541
01:13:04,040 --> 01:13:06,439
Speaker 1: I can't be militant all the time, like he wanted

1542
01:13:06,720 --> 01:13:10,200
Speaker 1: to boycott Donald Sterling and the fucking playoffs and all

1543
01:13:10,240 --> 01:13:12,559
Speaker 1: that when the Warriors were playing the Clippers back in

1544
01:13:12,600 --> 01:13:15,479
Speaker 1: the day. And at the same time he's like, we

1545
01:13:15,560 --> 01:13:18,680
Speaker 1: need the general rational wealth and the platform to go.

1546
01:13:18,640 --> 01:13:20,719
Speaker 6: To the bubble and say we can make this money.

1547
01:13:20,760 --> 01:13:24,599
Speaker 1: And so I don't know if Kyrie has gotten anywhere

1548
01:13:24,640 --> 01:13:27,080
Speaker 1: closer to the middle, so much is further to his

1549
01:13:27,120 --> 01:13:30,280
Speaker 1: own extreme left, if you will, even though it's kind

1550
01:13:30,320 --> 01:13:32,000
Speaker 1: of a conservative.

1551
01:13:33,080 --> 01:13:34,680
Speaker 6: Conspiracy, cos there's a.

1552
01:13:34,680 --> 01:13:36,800
Speaker 2: Lot of shit meeting around on the back end with

1553
01:13:36,920 --> 01:13:39,400
Speaker 2: the conspiracy in space.

1554
01:13:39,680 --> 01:13:40,360
Speaker 6: In space.

1555
01:13:40,560 --> 01:13:46,200
Speaker 2: Yes, Matt Sullivan, thank you so much for joining us again.

1556
01:13:46,800 --> 01:13:49,439
Speaker 2: Great job on the Rolling Stone piece. Look forward to

1557
01:13:49,439 --> 01:13:53,080
Speaker 2: seeing more basketball stuff from you, and grab Matt's book

1558
01:13:53,120 --> 01:13:54,200
Speaker 2: if you don't have it already.

1559
01:13:54,280 --> 01:13:55,680
Speaker 3: And thanks for coming on the show man. We really

1560
01:13:55,720 --> 01:13:56,240
Speaker 3: appreciate it.

1561
01:13:56,360 --> 01:13:56,920
Speaker 6: Appreciate you.

1562
01:13:57,200 --> 01:13:59,920
Speaker 1: This is really interesting, much more interesting than five minutes

1563
01:14:00,040 --> 01:14:00,599
Speaker 1: on CNN.

1564
01:14:08,040 --> 01:14:08,560
Speaker 3: Appreciate you.

1565
01:14:12,200 --> 01:14:15,120
Speaker 2: All right, that's our show. Thank you so much to

1566
01:14:15,160 --> 01:14:16,960
Speaker 2: everyone for sticking with us. Next to Matt again for

1567
01:14:16,960 --> 01:14:20,120
Speaker 2: hopping I thought that was a really interesting interview with Matt.

1568
01:14:22,320 --> 01:14:22,920
Speaker 3: I didn't want to.

1569
01:14:23,120 --> 01:14:25,240
Speaker 2: I don't I don't want to bring the interview to

1570
01:14:25,240 --> 01:14:27,479
Speaker 2: a halt and ask you guys a question since he

1571
01:14:27,600 --> 01:14:28,080
Speaker 2: was the guest.

1572
01:14:28,120 --> 01:14:31,839
Speaker 3: But I wanted to ask you now as people who've been.

1573
01:14:32,400 --> 01:14:35,800
Speaker 2: Followers and not followers, but fans of Lebron's for a

1574
01:14:35,800 --> 01:14:40,040
Speaker 2: long time, and as uh, you know, Matt and I

1575
01:14:40,080 --> 01:14:43,519
Speaker 2: both both brought up black people in the vaccine. You

1576
01:14:43,600 --> 01:14:46,439
Speaker 2: guys obviously much better to talk about that than uh

1577
01:14:46,760 --> 01:14:50,720
Speaker 2: than a Matt or I what did? What did you

1578
01:14:50,760 --> 01:14:52,800
Speaker 2: guys think about what he was saying about Lebron? Do

1579
01:14:53,240 --> 01:14:54,480
Speaker 2: you think he could.

1580
01:14:55,920 --> 01:14:56,479
Speaker 1: Do more?

1581
01:14:56,640 --> 01:14:58,040
Speaker 3: Do you think he should do more?

1582
01:14:58,120 --> 01:14:58,760
Speaker 6: Like? What? What? What?

1583
01:14:58,920 --> 01:15:02,400
Speaker 2: Just what are your opinions on and sort of of

1584
01:15:02,560 --> 01:15:04,360
Speaker 2: his place in this whole thing.

1585
01:15:05,880 --> 01:15:07,640
Speaker 7: Where I'm at, you know, with with Lebron and with

1586
01:15:07,680 --> 01:15:10,960
Speaker 7: any other you know, celebrity athlete whatever is. You know,

1587
01:15:11,000 --> 01:15:13,120
Speaker 7: it's commendable if you take a stand, But I don't

1588
01:15:13,120 --> 01:15:15,559
Speaker 7: think you're obligated to, you know what I mean. That's

1589
01:15:15,640 --> 01:15:17,519
Speaker 7: kind of just how I am on that. So I

1590
01:15:17,560 --> 01:15:20,320
Speaker 7: do think that you know Lebron, you know, being candidates

1591
01:15:20,320 --> 01:15:22,559
Speaker 7: saying you know, I was hesitant to I did my research.

1592
01:15:22,640 --> 01:15:24,280
Speaker 7: You know, I got vaccinated for my family. I thought,

1593
01:15:24,320 --> 01:15:26,120
Speaker 7: you know, that was a great thing to say because

1594
01:15:26,120 --> 01:15:27,760
Speaker 7: a lot of people are probably in that same boat.

1595
01:15:27,800 --> 01:15:30,680
Speaker 4: Though, prior to him talking about his family and why

1596
01:15:30,720 --> 01:15:32,639
Speaker 4: he did that and his reasoning and why he got

1597
01:15:32,640 --> 01:15:36,280
Speaker 4: the vaccine, I thought how he was moving was irresponsible

1598
01:15:36,320 --> 01:15:38,240
Speaker 4: and be keeping a stack with you. I'm like, ed

1599
01:15:38,320 --> 01:15:39,280
Speaker 4: best irresponsible.

1600
01:15:39,320 --> 01:15:41,160
Speaker 7: I know you Yeah, if you're not, did you think

1601
01:15:41,200 --> 01:15:42,920
Speaker 7: he well, yeah, I mean I guess we kind of

1602
01:15:42,960 --> 01:15:45,160
Speaker 7: know he might not have been vaccinated during those times,

1603
01:15:45,160 --> 01:15:47,400
Speaker 7: but I don't know. I think a lot of us

1604
01:15:47,400 --> 01:15:49,519
Speaker 7: probably thought he was vaccinated during that time.

1605
01:15:49,600 --> 01:15:52,519
Speaker 2: I mean, I thought he was vaccinated, but very much

1606
01:15:52,640 --> 01:15:56,960
Speaker 2: did not want to upset anyone by being out there.

1607
01:15:57,040 --> 01:16:00,560
Speaker 2: But I'm definitely a If I lean towards an it

1608
01:16:00,560 --> 01:16:03,640
Speaker 2: would be towards like an Illuminati type conspiracy. And I

1609
01:16:03,800 --> 01:16:06,200
Speaker 2: very much believe that all of the most powerful and

1610
01:16:06,240 --> 01:16:10,040
Speaker 2: wealthy people in the world got the vaccine the fucking

1611
01:16:10,120 --> 01:16:13,200
Speaker 2: second that shit rolled up the deses. You know, It's like, yeah,

1612
01:16:13,439 --> 01:16:16,120
Speaker 2: I lean that direction, but I but I didn't necessarily

1613
01:16:16,200 --> 01:16:18,000
Speaker 2: disagree with John at the time either.

1614
01:16:18,960 --> 01:16:20,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, I thought I thought it was irresponsible, but I

1615
01:16:20,920 --> 01:16:23,920
Speaker 4: think what he said was, I mean, he like he

1616
01:16:24,040 --> 01:16:26,559
Speaker 4: said the things that I thought Bradley Bill would say.

1617
01:16:27,479 --> 01:16:29,479
Speaker 5: You know what I'm saying, like what what? What? Who

1618
01:16:29,560 --> 01:16:32,000
Speaker 5: really disappoints me is Bradley Bill. And that's not just

1619
01:16:32,040 --> 01:16:32,719
Speaker 5: because he's from.

1620
01:16:32,560 --> 01:16:35,920
Speaker 4: Saint Louis, like like, and it's partly because he's from

1621
01:16:35,920 --> 01:16:37,360
Speaker 4: Saint Louis, you know what I mean, Like, but this

1622
01:16:37,400 --> 01:16:38,920
Speaker 4: is this is this is the things that I know,

1623
01:16:39,960 --> 01:16:43,040
Speaker 4: you know from my experience, is like, you know, his

1624
01:16:43,120 --> 01:16:44,320
Speaker 4: cousin is one of my best friends.

1625
01:16:44,360 --> 01:16:47,160
Speaker 5: You know what I'm saying. I know he's very familiar.

1626
01:16:47,760 --> 01:16:49,480
Speaker 5: I know how much he cares about the community.

1627
01:16:49,640 --> 01:16:52,519
Speaker 4: Saint Louis is getting fucked up, what Missouri in general

1628
01:16:52,560 --> 01:16:55,360
Speaker 4: is getting fucked up, particularly black people.

1629
01:16:55,120 --> 01:16:58,479
Speaker 5: By this fucking virus. We have all this information. He

1630
01:16:58,520 --> 01:17:01,320
Speaker 5: has two shorties. Smart Bradley. He was a smart dude.

1631
01:17:01,360 --> 01:17:03,519
Speaker 5: He's not an ignorant motherfucker. You know what I'm saying.

1632
01:17:03,520 --> 01:17:06,240
Speaker 5: He's not a conspiracy theorist. He's very calculated with his

1633
01:17:06,280 --> 01:17:07,000
Speaker 5: decision making.

1634
01:17:07,439 --> 01:17:10,000
Speaker 4: And he says something like that, you know what I mean,

1635
01:17:10,040 --> 01:17:13,400
Speaker 4: And it just it doesn't seem like it's it seems

1636
01:17:13,520 --> 01:17:14,679
Speaker 4: very unlike Bradley Bill.

1637
01:17:14,760 --> 01:17:17,679
Speaker 5: To say some shit like that, and it's.

1638
01:17:17,960 --> 01:17:21,280
Speaker 4: Disheartening to an agree, because like, if somebody I know,

1639
01:17:21,800 --> 01:17:24,040
Speaker 4: you know, stands for all this shit that I stand

1640
01:17:24,120 --> 01:17:26,840
Speaker 4: for and think a person like him should stand for

1641
01:17:26,960 --> 01:17:30,360
Speaker 4: and then says something like that, is you know, to

1642
01:17:30,400 --> 01:17:32,200
Speaker 4: be frank extremely ignorant, you know what I mean.

1643
01:17:32,240 --> 01:17:33,000
Speaker 5: I don't think he's dumb.

1644
01:17:33,040 --> 01:17:35,280
Speaker 4: I think that's an ignorant ass statement though, and we

1645
01:17:35,320 --> 01:17:36,640
Speaker 4: all say ignoranthit.

1646
01:17:36,120 --> 01:17:40,120
Speaker 5: At times, but not dangerous shit, you know what I mean.

1647
01:17:40,200 --> 01:17:43,240
Speaker 4: And I know how people like he's a I mean,

1648
01:17:43,320 --> 01:17:44,960
Speaker 4: Bradley and Tatum are fucking.

1649
01:17:44,680 --> 01:17:46,200
Speaker 5: Deedies in Saint Louis, and they should be.

1650
01:17:46,600 --> 01:17:48,439
Speaker 4: You know, I'm not just because they're good at basketball,

1651
01:17:48,479 --> 01:17:51,360
Speaker 4: because how they move, they're very approachable, they're very the

1652
01:17:51,600 --> 01:17:55,040
Speaker 4: real ass motherfuckers, They very Saint Louis ass niggas, you

1653
01:17:55,080 --> 01:17:55,639
Speaker 4: know what I'm saying.

1654
01:17:56,439 --> 01:17:58,520
Speaker 5: And in a Saint.

1655
01:17:58,280 --> 01:18:00,760
Speaker 4: Louis ass motherfucking thing to do is knock at the

1656
01:18:00,800 --> 01:18:01,920
Speaker 4: vaccine at the current time.

1657
01:18:02,280 --> 01:18:04,280
Speaker 5: And I and I got, like I said, I got.

1658
01:18:04,120 --> 01:18:08,200
Speaker 4: Homies that I love that say the same shit, and

1659
01:18:08,240 --> 01:18:11,120
Speaker 4: this just affirms their beliefs, you know what I'm saying,

1660
01:18:11,160 --> 01:18:15,040
Speaker 4: And that's disheartening. That's disheartening, you know, knowing that all

1661
01:18:15,080 --> 01:18:17,280
Speaker 4: the things he stands for I agree with, but this

1662
01:18:17,360 --> 01:18:20,880
Speaker 4: is a very dangerous time to be leaning into the

1663
01:18:20,920 --> 01:18:23,639
Speaker 4: type of bullshit that it seems like he's leaning into

1664
01:18:23,760 --> 01:18:25,040
Speaker 4: to say the statement like that, you know.

1665
01:18:25,040 --> 01:18:25,360
Speaker 5: What I mean?

1666
01:18:26,320 --> 01:18:29,160
Speaker 2: I thought Tyler made a really interesting point, drawing the

1667
01:18:29,200 --> 01:18:32,880
Speaker 2: distinction between a political issue and a public health issue

1668
01:18:32,920 --> 01:18:38,920
Speaker 2: that's been politicized because normally, Johnny you said it, everyone's

1669
01:18:38,960 --> 01:18:42,879
Speaker 2: ignorant about fucking something, bro Like, I mean, and that's

1670
01:18:43,200 --> 01:18:45,560
Speaker 2: our that's our right as human beings.

1671
01:18:45,560 --> 01:18:46,800
Speaker 3: Like we have a right to be.

1672
01:18:48,479 --> 01:18:48,599
Speaker 6: Well.

1673
01:18:48,880 --> 01:18:51,680
Speaker 8: But like you know what I'm saying, I'm not, you

1674
01:18:51,760 --> 01:18:55,120
Speaker 8: know what I mean, right Like, Like that's yeah, like

1675
01:18:55,160 --> 01:18:59,240
Speaker 8: no one, no one's supposed to be completely informed about everything,

1676
01:18:59,320 --> 01:18:59,840
Speaker 8: you know, whatever.

1677
01:19:00,040 --> 01:19:01,640
Speaker 3: It's just you can't live like you can't live the

1678
01:19:01,640 --> 01:19:07,960
Speaker 3: way people on Twitter. That's not an actual life. But

1679
01:19:08,080 --> 01:19:12,960
Speaker 3: the problem with this is you can't catch me thinking

1680
01:19:12,960 --> 01:19:14,040
Speaker 3: that the Illuminati is.

1681
01:19:14,000 --> 01:19:17,519
Speaker 2: Reel that cannot kill your grandmama, right, Like, that's the

1682
01:19:17,560 --> 01:19:21,280
Speaker 2: problem with this is it's it like it crosses that

1683
01:19:21,360 --> 01:19:25,360
Speaker 2: line of we just can't afford like everyone owes it

1684
01:19:25,400 --> 01:19:28,800
Speaker 2: to themselves and to the rest of the world and

1685
01:19:28,840 --> 01:19:31,519
Speaker 2: to your friend's grandmas and to your friends kids to

1686
01:19:31,720 --> 01:19:34,800
Speaker 2: not fuck this one up. And like we talked about

1687
01:19:34,800 --> 01:19:36,640
Speaker 2: on the last episode, like we had the like we

1688
01:19:36,680 --> 01:19:37,760
Speaker 2: did it.

1689
01:19:37,840 --> 01:19:40,400
Speaker 3: We are stupid little monkey brain species.

1690
01:19:40,439 --> 01:19:40,880
Speaker 5: We did it.

1691
01:19:40,960 --> 01:19:44,160
Speaker 2: We created a vaccine, like we fixed it, and now

1692
01:19:44,320 --> 01:19:47,360
Speaker 2: we're our same monkey brains that created the vaccine. We're

1693
01:19:47,400 --> 01:19:50,200
Speaker 2: all too stupid to fucking get it, like you know.

1694
01:19:50,479 --> 01:19:52,559
Speaker 2: So I don't know, man, I don't. I don't know,

1695
01:19:52,600 --> 01:19:55,479
Speaker 2: but I appreciated Matt's perspective on how it's going to

1696
01:19:55,520 --> 01:19:56,200
Speaker 2: go for the NBA.

1697
01:19:56,880 --> 01:19:57,920
Speaker 5: For sure, we.

1698
01:19:57,840 --> 01:20:01,200
Speaker 4: All have first hand experience with loss. I mean, I

1699
01:20:01,280 --> 01:20:03,960
Speaker 4: think it's very few humans, I would say him, I

1700
01:20:03,960 --> 01:20:07,439
Speaker 4: know very few Americans, especially Black Americans, have do not have,

1701
01:20:07,439 --> 01:20:10,559
Speaker 4: have not experienced loss due to COVID, you know what

1702
01:20:10,560 --> 01:20:13,519
Speaker 4: I mean. Let's touch all of us, and you still

1703
01:20:13,560 --> 01:20:16,919
Speaker 4: ignore that shit, you know what I'm saying, asking ridiculous

1704
01:20:17,000 --> 01:20:20,680
Speaker 4: questions and just spreading misinformation.

1705
01:20:20,800 --> 01:20:22,480
Speaker 5: It's it's it's.

1706
01:20:22,320 --> 01:20:26,080
Speaker 4: It's fucked up, but it's I think it's also lazy

1707
01:20:26,120 --> 01:20:27,360
Speaker 4: to just call these people.

1708
01:20:27,080 --> 01:20:28,960
Speaker 5: Idiots and stupid, you know what I mean?

1709
01:20:29,040 --> 01:20:34,200
Speaker 4: But yeah, definitely ignorant and dangerous. Is you know fitting

1710
01:20:34,280 --> 01:20:35,320
Speaker 4: for sure, you know what I'm saying.

1711
01:20:36,600 --> 01:20:37,240
Speaker 3: That's our pod.

1712
01:20:37,280 --> 01:20:39,519
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening, Thanks to Math for coming on, Thanks

1713
01:20:39,520 --> 01:20:41,960
Speaker 2: to Clinton Smith for writing a great book. And we'll

1714
01:20:41,960 --> 01:20:42,840
Speaker 2: see you guys on Monday.

1715
01:20:42,840 --> 01:20:50,720
Speaker 3: Bye bye