1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:10,080 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the 2 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at 3 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:17,119 Speaker 1: noon and five pm Eastern on Apple Coarckley and Android 4 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever 5 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:24,120 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube. 6 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 2: Welcome to the Friday edition of Ballants of Power. You've 7 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 2: made it to the threshold of the weekend, and this 8 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 2: is going to be quite a Friday for Voladimir Zelenski. 9 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:35,680 Speaker 2: He's in town right now, spent the night at Blairhouse, 10 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 2: and of course, well right across the streets it's the 11 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 2: White House where he's going to be about a half 12 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:42,239 Speaker 2: an hour from now. If things go on time. The 13 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 2: President of the United States will greet the President of 14 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 2: Ukraine outside the West Wing, as we've been seeing now 15 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 2: with a parade of world leaders most recently. I don't 16 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 2: know if he's going to get the color guard today. 17 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 2: We'll have to see what kind of hospitality he receives, Mario, 18 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:57,920 Speaker 2: because we've seen all flavors when it comes to Zelensky 19 00:00:57,920 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 2: and the Oval, right down to his dressing down on 20 00:00:59,880 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 2: a first visit to what seemed to be a pretty 21 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 2: good conversation last time. 22 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:05,039 Speaker 3: He was, yes, and I like what you did there 23 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 3: with a dressing down. 24 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:08,520 Speaker 4: He thought, Indeed, I think he's got a suit. 25 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 3: I think he should. I think I'm not. 26 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:14,199 Speaker 5: And if he didn't have a suit, I think, after 27 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 5: hearing President Trump's comments following his call with Vladimir Putin yesterday, 28 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 5: he very well should turn on the charm offensive with 29 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:24,119 Speaker 5: the president here in the Oval Office. 30 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 4: And that's right. 31 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:27,760 Speaker 2: Well, you know you talked about that call with Putin, 32 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:29,920 Speaker 2: of the statement that came out from President Trump on 33 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 2: truth social really raised a lot of eyebrows here. I 34 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 2: can't imagine what Zelenski himself thought, as we now apparently 35 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:36,760 Speaker 2: have another meeting in the works. There was not a 36 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:40,399 Speaker 2: mention of secondary sanctions, nor a mention of tomahawks, at 37 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 2: least in the post. He did tell reporters later it 38 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 2: came up. But just very briefly, let's listen to what 39 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 2: the President said following that call yesterday. 40 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:50,880 Speaker 6: I thought it was a very good phone call. I 41 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 6: thought very productive. But I'll be meeting with President Putin 42 00:01:55,200 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 6: and we'll make a determination tomorrow and meeting with President Zelensky, 43 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 6: and I'll be telling them about the call. 44 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 3: I mean, we have a problem. 45 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 6: They don't get along too well. Those two. We hope 46 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 6: we're going to get it stopped. 47 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 2: Didn't call it a perfect call, but it sounds like 48 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 2: he thought it went pretty well. And this is where 49 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 2: we start our conversation with Ian Kelly, Ambassador in residence 50 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 2: at Northwestern University, was former ambassador, US Ambassador to Georgia, 51 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 2: former US Ambassador to the Organization for Security and Cooperation 52 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 2: in Europe, and former State Department spokesman Under Secretary Hillary Clinton. 53 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 2: With a resume that is appropriate for the conversation. Mister ambassador, 54 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 2: welcome back to Bloomberg. 55 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 4: It's great to see you. 56 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 2: What are your expectations for this meeting and were they 57 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:41,080 Speaker 2: lowered by that call with Putin? 58 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 6: Well, I think that. 59 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 3: I was disappointed in. 60 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 7: The fact that although the President seemed to want to 61 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 7: keep the momentum up for peacekeeping VERUS peacekeeping role after 62 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 7: after the Gaza agreement, but unfortunately he doesn't seem to 63 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 7: have learned the lessons of the Gaza Agreement. They were 64 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 7: able to get to that agreement with Hamas because Israel, 65 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 7: with the help of the US, had established complete dominance 66 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 7: over Hamas in two ways, imposing crushing costs and the 67 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 7: aggressor and then isolating the aggressor. Trump's truth social seemed 68 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 7: to take off the table a couple of those costs 69 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 7: that he had been talking about and the Senate had 70 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 7: been talking about. That's longer range weapons like the tomahawks 71 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 7: and the crushing secondary sanctions in the Senate bill. And 72 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:49,120 Speaker 7: the other lesson, of course, is isolate the aggressor. And 73 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 7: this is not isolating Brutin by giving him another summit meeting, 74 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 7: this time in the capital of another leader who's been 75 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 7: under isolation, victor Orbon and Budapest. So designs are not 76 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 7: encouraging that we're going to see some kind of breakthrough. 77 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 5: Unfortunately, an ambassador, you make a great point in terms 78 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 5: of victor Orbon. I mean, you know, one of the 79 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:22,920 Speaker 5: last meetings at the Oval office, Zelensky promised to meet 80 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 5: Vladimir Putin anywhere, anytime in order to hash out some 81 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 5: type of peace between the two Hungary seems to be 82 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 5: I mean, in some ways very not the friendliest towards Zelensky, right, 83 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 5: So how if the president of President Trump today tries 84 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:47,159 Speaker 5: to pressure Zelensky on that meeting, how does he play it. 85 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 3: How tough is. 86 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:50,839 Speaker 5: It to commit to that and follow through on that 87 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 5: promise given the territory in Hungary. 88 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean Victor Orban has not been a great 89 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 7: friend of of Ukraine. He has not agreed to a 90 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:08,920 Speaker 7: number of of EU initiatives to to help Ukraine. He hasn't, 91 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 7: he hasn't joined his fellow EU leaders. He has some uh, 92 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:18,480 Speaker 7: some concerns about Ukraine because of the of the eastern 93 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 7: border of Hungary. So it's it's it's not a good 94 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 7: sign that this is being uh. This summit is taking 95 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:33,239 Speaker 7: place in a in a Russia or friendly and and 96 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 7: uh and Ukraine hostile country. And so this is yet 97 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 7: another another sign that Vladimir Putin is putting uh, you know, 98 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 7: putting scores on the board even before the meeting takes place. 99 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 2: Ambassador, I want to ask you about the tomahawks specifically, 100 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 2: because the language we heard from President Trump last evening 101 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 2: did not sound like we were about to send a 102 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 2: shipment to Kiev. Let's listen to what he said again. 103 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 2: Following the call with Putin, we talked about. 104 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 8: It a little bit, didn't say much, but I do 105 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 8: say to you, you know, we need tomahawks. 106 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 6: For the United States of America too. We have a 107 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 6: lot of them, but we need them. I mean, we 108 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 6: can't deplete for our country. So you know, they're very vital, 109 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 6: they're very powerful, they're very accurate, they're very good. But 110 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:35,280 Speaker 6: we need them too. So I don't know. 111 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:39,039 Speaker 2: What we can do about that, Ambassador, when you hear 112 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:43,040 Speaker 2: we need them, we can't deplete for our country, what 113 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:43,840 Speaker 2: does that tell you. 114 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:52,039 Speaker 7: Well, he's breaking a cardinal rule of negotiating with the Russians, 115 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 7: and that's you know, don't negotiate away leverage before you 116 00:06:56,760 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 7: even start negotiating. And it's it's probable that Putin called Trump, 117 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:09,280 Speaker 7: I mean Putin initiated the call because he's afraid that 118 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 7: Ukraine will have the kind of long range capability that 119 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 7: we'll be able to take out, you know, more military 120 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 7: and economic assets. Right now, they can only send drones, 121 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 7: which do not pack much of a punch at all 122 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 7: in any sort of long range way. So to say that, yeah, 123 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:35,440 Speaker 7: I don't think we are going to send them these 124 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 7: because you know, we need them here. It's it's it's 125 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 7: it's kind of breaking that cardinal rule of don't give 126 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 7: things up before you actually start negotiating. 127 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 5: Ambassador, Kelly, thank you so much for joining us today 128 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 5: here on Bloomberg Balance of Power. 129 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 3: We really do appreciate it. 130 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 5: And we're joined now by Mike McLoone, saying your analysts 131 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 5: for Bloomberg Intelligence on crude oil prices. We know that 132 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 5: crude oil prices have been top of mind for President 133 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 5: Trump censor on geopolitics as well. Mike, thanks so much 134 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 5: for joining us. I do have a fine spot in 135 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 5: my heart as a former commodities reporter here at Bloomberg News. 136 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 5: Prices for crude oil, I mean I think I saw 137 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 5: on CO one GP this is a third or fourth 138 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 5: day of declines. 139 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 3: We're in some very low territory here. What's driving that? 140 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 9: Yes, so Lo Mario, our paths across a lot in Chicago, 141 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 9: being from Chicago, which is where I learned trading from 142 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:42,880 Speaker 9: the Chicago trading If it's a key thing about crude 143 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:45,680 Speaker 9: oil is it's a pretty substantial bear market. 144 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 10: But it's a bear market for what was mentioned earlier 145 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 10: part of program on Russian invaded Ukraine. 146 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 11: It pumped up prices really high, incentivized all that new 147 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 11: production and tilt the will towards alternatives. 148 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 10: I all the ebs that are being sold. 149 00:08:57,440 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 3: Around the world. 150 00:08:58,040 --> 00:08:58,959 Speaker 10: Most don't mean China. 151 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 11: So now we're important in the midst of a pretty 152 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:01,960 Speaker 11: significant bear market. 153 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:03,959 Speaker 10: It's about where do we find the low price cure. 154 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:07,840 Speaker 11: So right now WTI Krudele is about fifty seven dollars 155 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 11: of barrow. The average price in twenty nineteen, before the 156 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 11: COVID and everything was fifty seven dollars of barrow. 157 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 10: The low this year is fifty five. 158 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 11: We're right about the US cost of production, and rural 159 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 11: commandities usually have to get below that cost of production 160 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 11: to offset these accesses of supply and demand. 161 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:26,080 Speaker 10: On a global scale. It's also a sign and KRUDEO. 162 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:28,199 Speaker 11: Goes down and goals goes up, it's a sign of 163 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:32,720 Speaker 11: a global recessionary trajectory. So looking forward the last twenty years, 164 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:35,559 Speaker 11: the lowest of crudel has been around forty. I started 165 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 11: saying that about three years ago that we might go 166 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:39,439 Speaker 11: down to forty. It didn't look so good in twenty 167 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 11: twenty two, but I think we're still heading towards forty. 168 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 11: The key thing to remember when Crudill's down about twenty 169 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:48,360 Speaker 11: percent in the year that stock markets up about fifteen percent, 170 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:50,960 Speaker 11: it just stock market dis tilts a little bit lower. 171 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 10: That's a significant deflationary force. 172 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:54,680 Speaker 6: Wow. 173 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:56,320 Speaker 4: Fascinating, Mike. It's great to see you. 174 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 2: I think it's time for you to take a bit 175 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:02,199 Speaker 2: of a vic laugh here before we ask any more questions. 176 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 2: And maybe you will at the Money show in Orlando today. 177 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:07,200 Speaker 2: Because you told us this was going to happen. We're 178 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:09,959 Speaker 2: going to drop below sixty. You told us gold was 179 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:11,719 Speaker 2: going to top four thousand, and we're looking in the 180 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:12,959 Speaker 2: rearview mirror at four thousand. 181 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 8: Now. 182 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:14,600 Speaker 4: I don't know what the next stop in the road 183 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 4: is here. 184 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:18,680 Speaker 2: And I'm also looking at Bitcoin today, which I don't 185 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 2: know if this is interrupting your base case, but this 186 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 2: risk off situation with bitcoin even as good old fashioned 187 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:29,560 Speaker 2: Gold continues to climb. First of all, congratulations on being 188 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:33,080 Speaker 2: just absolutely correct on your calls. How do you rationalize 189 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 2: what we're seeing now with all three? 190 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 11: Sometimes you get them right and sometimes you get it wrong, 191 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:39,559 Speaker 11: and somethings to get right off you have to be 192 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:40,560 Speaker 11: thrown down in the mat. 193 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 10: And I took a while. I kept thinking Gold was 194 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 10: going to go above two thousand. 195 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 11: For four years, and finally it did. The key thing 196 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:48,080 Speaker 11: now is Gold. 197 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 10: Is just playing scary Joe it's rallying so fast. 198 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 11: If you look at relative to it's forty fifteen sixty 199 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:55,960 Speaker 11: month moving average, it's so high you have to go 200 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 11: back to nineteen eighty one, the. 201 00:10:57,760 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 10: Last time it got this high. 202 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 11: People like Tom Kean would say it's like a fifth 203 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:02,240 Speaker 11: standard deviation move. 204 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 10: So it's very expensive. 205 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 3: But it's happening for a reason. 206 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:07,200 Speaker 10: And Kruill going down is a reason. But part of that. 207 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:11,079 Speaker 11: What's right in the middle is people are remote reminding 208 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 11: is that gold is the old school, old fashioned store value. 209 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:17,720 Speaker 11: It's been around forever. Bitcoin's a new one. The problem 210 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:18,680 Speaker 11: is gold. 211 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 4: Is we're just about to get the he's breaking up. 212 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 4: Don't do it to me? Come on. 213 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 2: The internet lost today. I wanted to hear the end 214 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 2: of that. Oh jeez, Mike, you broke up on me. 215 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:35,560 Speaker 2: I don't We need to see if you can say 216 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 2: that again real quick. We got thirty seconds. Oh he's frozen, 217 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 2: all right. We love you, Mike. I got to get 218 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 2: the bitcoin line from Mike mcgloonan. Find him on the 219 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 2: terminal and online our commodities trader at BI. Have a 220 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 2: great weekend, Mike. I'll tell you what Bitcoin is back 221 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 2: above one hundred and six thousand, but still down thirteen 222 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 2: hundred dollars about one percent today. Stay with us on 223 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 2: Balance of Power. We'll have much more coming up after this. 224 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch 225 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on 226 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:19,199 Speaker 1: Apple Cockway and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. 227 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:22,240 Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 228 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 1: flagship New York station Just Say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty. 229 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:30,680 Speaker 2: We keep our eyes on a couple of moving parts here, 230 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 2: including an imminent meeting between President Trump and President Zelenski. 231 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:38,120 Speaker 2: They're preparing in the West Wing for his arrival right now. 232 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:40,120 Speaker 2: He was supposed to be there about thirteen minutes ago, 233 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 2: at the top of the hour. These things tend to 234 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 2: go late when these two gentlemen do sit down. We're 235 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 2: going to bring you in the room so you can 236 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 2: hear everything that the reporters here live and unfiltered. Knowing 237 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:51,040 Speaker 2: that these have taken on a couple of different shapes 238 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:54,560 Speaker 2: in what is now the fourth visit by Zelensky to 239 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 2: the White House, he spent the evening at Blair House 240 00:12:57,120 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 2: across the street, and he is by the way expected 241 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 2: to hold his own a press conference with reporters afterward. Now, 242 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:07,440 Speaker 2: we did hear from President Trump about this meeting yesterday, 243 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 2: because he spoke on the phone for some time. It 244 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 2: was a two hour call, we understand, with Vladimir Putin, 245 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 2: remembering that Zelensky wanted Tomahawk missiles cruise missiles that could 246 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:19,840 Speaker 2: reach Moscow to help turn the tide in this war. 247 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:24,080 Speaker 2: President Trump suggested that he was considering that request. But 248 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 2: then we heard from him yesterday following his call from Putin, 249 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:28,679 Speaker 2: and it's unclear where we stand. 250 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:29,439 Speaker 4: Here's the president. 251 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 8: We talked about it a little bit, didn't say much, 252 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:34,560 Speaker 8: but I do say to you, you know, we need 253 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 8: tomahawks for the United States of America too. 254 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 6: We have a lot of them, but we need them. 255 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 6: I mean, we can't deplete for our country. So you know, 256 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 6: they're very vital, they're very powerful, they're very accurate, they're 257 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 6: very good. But we need them too. So I don't 258 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:55,080 Speaker 6: know what we can do about that. 259 00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 2: Okay, So how many do we have, how many could 260 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:02,960 Speaker 2: we afford to give, and what difference would it actually 261 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 2: make in the war. We thought we would talk to 262 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:08,640 Speaker 2: an expert, a voice you've heard before on this program 263 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:10,199 Speaker 2: and seen before on Balance of Power. 264 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:11,680 Speaker 4: Ben Jensen is back with us. 265 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:14,680 Speaker 2: He's director of the Future's Lab and senior Fellow for 266 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:17,439 Speaker 2: the Defense and Security Department at the Center for Strategic 267 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 2: and International Studies CSIS. Ben, welcome back. It's great to 268 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 2: have you on Bloomberg. Some basic questions to start with 269 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 2: here in terms of the efficacy of a Tomahawk missile. 270 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 2: If you put this in the hands of the Ukrainians, 271 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 2: could it in fact reach Moscow? What type of damage 272 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 2: would it do and what would be the impact on 273 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 2: the war? 274 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 6: Sure? 275 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, great to be back again. 276 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 12: And because you have empirical viewers, let's start with just 277 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 12: the facts the Tomahawk. The way it works is it 278 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 12: does have the range characteristics. Were fired from either in 279 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 12: the air and can go further or from the ground 280 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 12: not as far, but either firing trajectory would mean that 281 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 12: it could reach strategically important targets in and around Moscow 282 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 12: and others. This is why Putin really needs to try 283 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 12: to declare a new redline as we up to like 284 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 12: his twentieth webline Vedos. 285 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 3: But that's the real efficacy of it. It's range. 286 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 12: The other key factor isn't just that it can go 287 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 12: far with a big boom. It's how it actually flies. 288 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 12: The Tomahawk is amazing because this is actually old eighties technology. 289 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 12: It actually flies based upon digital maps. It creates the 290 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 12: terrain beneath it, so this means it actually is less 291 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 12: susceptible to GPS jamming because it's following its own almost 292 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 12: version of terrain recognition. That also means it can fly 293 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 12: lower than some radars can pick it up. So Tomahawk 294 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 12: is designed to fly long distances to say low to 295 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 12: the ground, and then to pop up and hit the target, 296 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:43,760 Speaker 12: so the defender has less time to react. That's why 297 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 12: it's such a disturbing weapon for the Russians and so 298 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 12: effective for the Ukrainians. 299 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:51,920 Speaker 2: Would we have to also provide a delivery system or 300 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 2: could this be delivered by boat, by ground, by aircraft 301 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 2: that Ukraine already has. 302 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 12: You know, Ukraine is second only to in its ability 303 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:03,480 Speaker 12: to use to make battlefield improvisation. So I have no 304 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 12: doubt the Ukrainians would find a way to fire it. Okay, 305 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 12: even if we somehow forgot to deliver it, which our 306 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 12: military is good, we wouldn't. The bigger question is how 307 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 12: much intelligence would you pass with it. Are you helping 308 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 12: train the flight profiles and routes? This has been an 309 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 12: issue with scout missiles in the past. Tomahawk is a 310 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:21,400 Speaker 12: cruise missile. European countries have given other cruise missiles to 311 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 12: the Ukrainians in the past. So you're right, it does 312 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 12: come with a support package. It's not just you buy 313 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 12: it off the shelf, you take it home and use it. 314 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:30,920 Speaker 12: You have to think about that intelligence package and then 315 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 12: also how are you firing it? 316 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:33,920 Speaker 4: Okay, let's talk inventories. 317 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 2: President Trump, who was open to this idea a couple 318 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 2: of days ago, says, hey, we need them too, and 319 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 2: we cannot deplete. 320 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 12: Do we have a sense of how many we have? 321 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 12: So not as readily as you think. Usually, you know, 322 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:48,600 Speaker 12: defense walks like myself spend time like looking at congressional 323 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 12: budgets to see how many were ordered and how many 324 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 12: were bought, and then sometimes we don't get accurate numbers, 325 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 12: and the number shot in terms of actual strikes on 326 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 12: an enemy or much less in training. So what we 327 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 12: do know is this is a high demand asset, right, 328 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 12: You always hear that term. It's why it's ubiquitous now 329 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 12: to say Tomahawk, which means there's never enough. And the 330 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:10,280 Speaker 12: bigger issue we have is that we just can't produce 331 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 12: many of these missiles at the large enough quantities and 332 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:16,439 Speaker 12: in a timely manner, especially when we're confronted with the 333 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:19,359 Speaker 12: world where one day we might fire a Tomahawk from 334 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:21,680 Speaker 12: a destroyer to hit a Hoofi, the next day we 335 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 12: might give it to Ukrainian to shoot something in Russia, 336 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:27,960 Speaker 12: but then the following day we all of a sudden 337 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 12: need to fire a thousand of them in the defense 338 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:33,160 Speaker 12: of a treaty, ally like the Philippines or Japan because 339 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:34,240 Speaker 12: of the Taiwan scenario. 340 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 4: Okay, so you mentioned in Yemen. 341 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 2: By the way, we've popped off a lot of these 342 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 2: at Yemen and they come at what a million dollars 343 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:42,160 Speaker 2: a pop. 344 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:45,360 Speaker 12: Yeah, prices vary, and remember the way the defense contracts work, 345 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 12: it isn't just as simple. You have to go for 346 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 12: an average a million bucks a pop on average, but 347 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 12: it depends on the block. And so my guess is 348 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 12: we're probably going to give older inventory, lower block item 349 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:58,720 Speaker 12: tomahawks to the Ukrainians to fire ones that we would 350 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:00,359 Speaker 12: be kind kind of like we did with some of 351 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:03,199 Speaker 12: the atacklems that we're nearing the end of their service life. 352 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:05,640 Speaker 12: So it's still an amazing missile. That's not to discount 353 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:07,920 Speaker 12: its power, but we're not going to be giving them 354 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:10,879 Speaker 12: the latest block that is more advanced than has maybe 355 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 12: even some other features. 356 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:13,240 Speaker 4: That would be of interest. 357 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 2: Could it change the strategy for Ukraine? Could it break 358 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 2: this war of attrition? Or would this just be an 359 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:25,159 Speaker 2: opportunity to provide a deterrent. Yeah, for Vladimir Putin, how 360 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:25,879 Speaker 2: would it be employed? 361 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 3: I tend to. 362 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 12: Look at this and this is where I think something 363 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:31,359 Speaker 12: is happening that's more interesting than it gets credit. In 364 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:34,359 Speaker 12: the Trump administration. I think that they're actually having what 365 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:37,639 Speaker 12: I would call a compounding coercive campaign right now. So 366 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:41,400 Speaker 12: the Tomahawks are actually a powerful deterrent and a powerful 367 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 12: negotiating mechanism, even if not a single one enters Ukraine. 368 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:48,560 Speaker 12: Now Vladimir Putin has to reckon with the Americans. Can 369 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:51,879 Speaker 12: give the Ukrainians something that can hit targets with a 370 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:54,439 Speaker 12: bigger boom than the long range drones attacks that are 371 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:58,359 Speaker 12: hitting Russian oil refineries. Yes, that is taken as compounding 372 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:00,920 Speaker 12: because now think of the economic side. We've got the 373 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:02,959 Speaker 12: Indian oil dynamics going on. 374 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:04,360 Speaker 3: We've got this new call. 375 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:08,160 Speaker 12: For a victory tariff to further hit Chinese support to Russia. 376 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:11,840 Speaker 12: We've got existing sanctions, We've got EU calls to create 377 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:16,119 Speaker 12: really interesting structured financial products like essentially loans off Russian 378 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:18,159 Speaker 12: frozen assets, and we even have a bill in the 379 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:20,439 Speaker 12: US where we would essentially take them. 380 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:21,639 Speaker 3: I think it's about six billion. 381 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 12: It's a few billion dollars of Russian frozen assets and 382 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 12: give it to the Ukrainians. So I actually see the 383 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 12: economic dimensions of that coersive campaign has more deterrent than 384 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 12: the individual timelock delivery, but you can't separate them. I 385 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:37,640 Speaker 12: think the Trump team has developed a pretty sophisticated notion 386 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 12: of this compounding coercive signal to try to really put 387 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:43,720 Speaker 12: the hard press on Putin in the wake of Gazas 388 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:46,040 Speaker 12: to then kind of put at least at least freeze 389 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:47,960 Speaker 12: the conflict, if not outright end fascinating. 390 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 2: It's a great theory and it makes a lot of sense. 391 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 2: And I wonder when you consider the hotspots around the world, 392 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:57,640 Speaker 2: the amount of munitions that were providing and using there 393 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 2: was fascinating analysis. Colonel Sanders at Bloomberg Intelligence who sits 394 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 2: right on the newsroom with us and was out with 395 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:08,439 Speaker 2: a client note talking about a potential rerating of the 396 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:12,200 Speaker 2: major defense contractors based on the massive orders for missiles 397 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:14,000 Speaker 2: specifically that are going. 398 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:16,399 Speaker 4: To be coming. Tomahawk is a lock heyed product. 399 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:16,959 Speaker 3: Who makes it? 400 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 12: Remember, the weirdest part about most of these is because 401 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:23,560 Speaker 12: after that famous thing you call the Last Supper and Defense, 402 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:25,480 Speaker 12: where you went from a lot of firms to a. 403 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:27,200 Speaker 3: Few firms, it's never as simple. 404 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:29,919 Speaker 4: Everyone makes everything here like it takes every company to 405 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:30,159 Speaker 4: make it. 406 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 12: Yes, and never think about a missile is just a missile. 407 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 12: A missile is a series of component of parts, from 408 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:39,439 Speaker 12: a rocket engine to a guidance system, to a warhead, 409 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 12: to avionics to a command and control suite. 410 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:44,360 Speaker 3: So usually the really. 411 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 12: Interesting way to look at these weapons systems, and especially 412 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 12: for you know, Bloomberg watchers as you're thinking about this, 413 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:52,439 Speaker 12: from how do you make bets upon you know, the 414 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:56,600 Speaker 12: possibility of protracted conflict or the recapitalization of the American 415 00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 12: industrial base, you really have to look at it at 416 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:01,720 Speaker 12: that angle fascinating and you start making very different bets 417 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:03,680 Speaker 12: because it turns out probably in a couple of years 418 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 12: We're probably going to have more rocket motors than we need, 419 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:08,360 Speaker 12: but we might not have as many drones as we need, 420 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 12: and so you have to start to look carefully at 421 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:14,360 Speaker 12: what companies, who are their contracts, who are their suppliers. 422 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:16,639 Speaker 12: You then you got to throw in weird curve balls 423 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 12: like this whole critical mineral thing and the magnets. So 424 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 12: it's never just as simple as Boeing or a Lockheed 425 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,200 Speaker 12: or a Northrop. All of them make phenomenal weapons, it's 426 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 12: what part of the end item do they make? And 427 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:30,760 Speaker 12: then where do we understand those supply chains? And because 428 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:33,960 Speaker 12: of that complexity, that's why it's so hard to recapitalize 429 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 12: the defense industrial base. 430 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:37,880 Speaker 2: What a great answer. So it sounds like for the investor, 431 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:40,680 Speaker 2: you might be looking at a basket. You're buying the industry, 432 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 2: maybe more than individual names. But where do the Andrewles 433 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:46,640 Speaker 2: come into play here and some of the other smaller, 434 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:52,040 Speaker 2: more nimble, more innovative defense contractors that are being profiled 435 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:55,359 Speaker 2: on sixty Minutes as the next big thing. Will that 436 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 2: in fact change procurement at the Pentagon unmanned. 437 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 4: Drone where it's air or water nose? 438 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 3: I mean, in some sense you don't impressed at all. 439 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 12: So I'm impressed with some of their stuff, but I'll 440 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 12: be more impressed when they have multiple factories that are 441 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 12: less producing. 442 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 4: It's about scale for you. 443 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's about scale. 444 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 12: And I also think a lot of the defense primes, 445 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:17,679 Speaker 12: despite the inefficiencies of federal procurement processes, a lot of 446 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 12: are actually large primes, are actually some of the most 447 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 12: innovative companies you can find. It's American firms with DARPA 448 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:27,119 Speaker 12: that invent this thing called stealth. It's American firms actually 449 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 12: working with darper researchers that invent the Internet. So I 450 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 12: have yet to see any small, amazing disruptive company that 451 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,639 Speaker 12: has something as disruptive as stealth aircraft or the Internet 452 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 12: really interest. What I do see, though, is that their 453 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,720 Speaker 12: willingness to create a more competitive kind of Shue Materian 454 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 12: creative destruction landscape. So if nothing else, even if a 455 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:48,639 Speaker 12: lot of these new defense companies end up failing and 456 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:53,439 Speaker 12: failing tragically, they've at least forced interesting debates and energy, 457 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 12: which is exactly what we want in capitalism. So I 458 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:57,679 Speaker 12: think they're serving a really important function. I think some 459 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:00,359 Speaker 12: of them will do amazing work, but don't dis count 460 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 12: some of the amazing stuff that these larger defense firms make. 461 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:05,120 Speaker 2: How much did we just learn in the last ten 462 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 2: minutes from Ben Jensen come on every day. That was 463 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 2: truly helpful and I think we got a lot out 464 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 2: of it. Ben, Thank you so much. Always love CSIS, 465 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:17,400 Speaker 2: which is just an incredible stable of talent and insight 466 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:18,600 Speaker 2: here on the program, Ben. 467 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 4: Thank you so much. Stay with us on Balance of Power. 468 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:22,640 Speaker 4: We'll have much more coming up after this. 469 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:31,640 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch 470 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on 471 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:38,119 Speaker 1: Alma Coarclay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. 472 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 1: Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch 473 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 1: us live on YouTube. 474 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:45,440 Speaker 4: You got to the end of the week. 475 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,440 Speaker 2: The government still closed, it's showing no signs of opening, 476 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 2: and Washington's attention is turning to other matters today, including 477 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:56,000 Speaker 2: President Zelenski's visit to the White House that's scheduled for 478 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:58,480 Speaker 2: twenty minutes from now. We'll see how on time things 479 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:02,280 Speaker 2: are when the two presidents sit down and welcome reporters 480 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:04,000 Speaker 2: into the room. Will of course bring you there live 481 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:07,680 Speaker 2: for the conversation that follows President Trump's phone call with 482 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:10,000 Speaker 2: Vladimir Putin by only a day, and we have a 483 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,879 Speaker 2: lot of questions about what, if anything, this might lead to. 484 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:14,000 Speaker 4: Zelenski is in town. 485 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:16,040 Speaker 2: He spent the night at Blair House across the street 486 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 2: inside the White House complex, and again should be crossing 487 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,359 Speaker 2: over there a short time from now. It's a beautiful 488 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:23,880 Speaker 2: day in Washington. Mario Parker will see if he takes 489 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:26,119 Speaker 2: the motor cator, if he actually decides to walk across 490 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:26,440 Speaker 2: the street. 491 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 5: Yes, absolutely, but we'll be watching, I mean, every detail 492 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:30,639 Speaker 5: of this meeting. 493 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 4: Yeah. 494 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,960 Speaker 5: Again, just given how the president's comments yesterday both on 495 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 5: truth social after he concluded a phone call with Vladimir Putin, 496 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,800 Speaker 5: but also his comments in the oval ofll Fish yesterday 497 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:46,480 Speaker 5: with reporters, where he equivocated on Tomahawk. He was supposed 498 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:48,800 Speaker 5: to be the subject of the meeting today. 499 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:51,000 Speaker 2: With so true might might have been terribly encouraged by 500 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:53,000 Speaker 2: what he heard. When Zelenski gets there, we'll bring you 501 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:55,520 Speaker 2: there too so we can experience this together. 502 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:58,320 Speaker 4: Last evening, it was time for the popcorn. 503 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 2: I don't know if you watched this New York mayoral debate, 504 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 2: but I mean we really we walk out on these 505 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,400 Speaker 2: like this is primetime entertainment for Mario and I. When 506 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:07,199 Speaker 2: we've got a ripper like this, especially when you're in 507 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 2: an off cycle, we stop down. 508 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:11,439 Speaker 4: Thank God for c SPAN and the Internet. 509 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:13,200 Speaker 2: Of course, we all had a chance to watch this 510 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:17,879 Speaker 2: thing with Curtis Sliwa without the beret. He's had a 511 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 2: whole makeover in this campaign. Of course, a Morris Veeldt 512 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:27,920 Speaker 2: looking former Governor Cuomo and zoron Mom Donnie, whose name 513 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 2: Curtis Sliwa seemed to struggle with last evening. This is 514 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,679 Speaker 2: a race that a lot of people think they have 515 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:36,920 Speaker 2: figured out already, including the President of the United States, 516 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:40,000 Speaker 2: because Mom Donni is so far ahead and it's unclear 517 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:41,200 Speaker 2: that anything changed last night. 518 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:41,479 Speaker 7: No. 519 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:45,960 Speaker 5: Absolutely, Besides politics, I'm also a fan of the sweet science. 520 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:48,800 Speaker 5: And when you're down in the cards, as Cuomo is 521 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,560 Speaker 5: right now, you have to come out throwing some haymakers with. 522 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:53,720 Speaker 3: The intent to at least get a knockout. Isn't that right, 523 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:54,840 Speaker 3: Mam Donnie. 524 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:57,320 Speaker 5: When you're up with the cards, you just want to 525 00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 5: make sure that you're just landing jabs that she still 526 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,240 Speaker 5: claim for the most part to. 527 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:03,919 Speaker 3: Be what we had last night with the debate. 528 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:07,320 Speaker 2: You go in fights this weekend, which I would love this. Well, 529 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 2: here's a little taste of what we saw with these 530 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:10,480 Speaker 2: candidates last evening in the debate. 531 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:15,359 Speaker 5: This is not a job for a first timer any day. 532 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:16,879 Speaker 3: You got our hurricane. 533 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,800 Speaker 9: You were God forbid a nine to eleven a health 534 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 9: pandemic if you don't know. 535 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 3: What can be doing? 536 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 6: So, Mom, Donny want to respond. 537 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:27,480 Speaker 13: And if we have a health pandemic, then why would 538 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:29,879 Speaker 13: New Yorkers turn back to the governor who sent seniors 539 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 13: to their death and nursing homes. That's the kind of 540 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:34,159 Speaker 13: experience that's on offer here today. What I don't have 541 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:36,280 Speaker 13: an experience, I make up for an integrity, and what 542 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,199 Speaker 13: you don't have an integrity, you could never make up 543 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:39,000 Speaker 13: for an experience. 544 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:45,080 Speaker 2: Wow, that was a clearly prepared mom, Donnie, who for 545 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:48,560 Speaker 2: every singer or a point that Cuomo tried. 546 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,239 Speaker 4: To make, he had a better one. It see him 547 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:50,720 Speaker 4: coming back. 548 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, that was a hay maker, that was. 549 00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:56,960 Speaker 5: And that was a hay maker from the person that 550 00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:59,480 Speaker 5: is up right now. And that's to our point. That's 551 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:03,240 Speaker 5: the one really went viral that we saw, Yeah, circulating 552 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 5: in political circuit. 553 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:04,840 Speaker 4: You had some good lines. 554 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,680 Speaker 2: I mean, they clearly spent time preparing for this opportunity, 555 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 2: and you're talking about a candidate who was already some 556 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,159 Speaker 2: thirty points ahead depending on the poll. Let's assemble our panel, 557 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 2: because they love this stuff as much as we do. 558 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,920 Speaker 2: Bloomberg Politics contributor Jeanie Shanzino, by the way, in New 559 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,920 Speaker 2: York Democracy visiting fellow at Harvard Kennedy School's Ash Center. 560 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,719 Speaker 2: But of course, our New York representative on this program, 561 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:27,200 Speaker 2: Lisa Kumuso Miller well this year in the Capitol, former 562 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:31,199 Speaker 2: RNC communications director, our Republican strategist and host of the 563 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:32,679 Speaker 2: Friday Reporter podcast. 564 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:34,159 Speaker 4: Now, I'm going to just warn everybody. 565 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:38,679 Speaker 2: I'm going to get your breakfast bodega order before this 566 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:41,720 Speaker 2: segment is out. But let's start Genie with style and substance? 567 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:46,639 Speaker 2: Did mom Donnie just codify the polls last evening? Is 568 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:48,919 Speaker 2: he as good as New York's next mayor? 569 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:52,920 Speaker 14: Yeah? And I love Mario? What was it the sweet science? 570 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,440 Speaker 14: I'm learning all these new phrases from Mario. 571 00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:57,720 Speaker 10: I'm loving this. 572 00:27:58,840 --> 00:27:59,080 Speaker 3: Yeah. 573 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,119 Speaker 14: And by the way, Joe, I was on an Amtrak 574 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:03,600 Speaker 14: from Boston to New York City and you can bet. 575 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:07,120 Speaker 14: I got myself already and I was able to stream, 576 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,680 Speaker 14: so thank God for streaming and Joie it was worth it. Yeah, 577 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:12,000 Speaker 14: thank you. 578 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:12,240 Speaker 3: You know. 579 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,679 Speaker 14: I think the reality is is that, as you mentioned 580 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:19,680 Speaker 14: the polls, the Fox poll had Mamdanni up twenty five percent, 581 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:23,160 Speaker 14: Cuomo has a long way to go, and of course 582 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:25,720 Speaker 14: it would be a race that Cuomo wants to see 583 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,479 Speaker 14: in a head to head. But Curtis Sleewa is going 584 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,720 Speaker 14: nowhere except losing his beret. As you mentioned, he is 585 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,760 Speaker 14: going nowhere, and he had some of the best lines 586 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:35,520 Speaker 14: of the night. 587 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,440 Speaker 10: And Cuomo could not lay a. 588 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:39,200 Speaker 3: Glove on. 589 00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:44,320 Speaker 14: Zora and Mandanmi, and you know, he didn't get any 590 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:47,160 Speaker 14: of those sort of viral moments. In fact, the best 591 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,760 Speaker 14: moments that Andrew Cuomo had I think were when he 592 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 14: was talking about his experience as a manager. But of 593 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 14: course Mamdani was able to come back and say, well, 594 00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:00,280 Speaker 14: wait a minute, defend yourself and everything you did with 595 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 14: the nursing homes. And he couldn't defend himself, but on 596 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:06,840 Speaker 14: housing and other things, Andrew Cuomo showed that that experience 597 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,560 Speaker 14: in Howida and elsewhere doesn't matter. And then of course 598 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:13,400 Speaker 14: Mam Donnie was smooth as a cucumber. He was smiling 599 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:17,520 Speaker 14: the whole time, unflappable, and didn't make any errors. And 600 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,959 Speaker 14: so in this kind of race, they have one more debate, 601 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,960 Speaker 14: which is next Wednesday or next week, I should say, 602 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:26,400 Speaker 14: and unless Andrew Cuomo can lay a glove on him, 603 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 14: or really unless Sleiwa gets out of the race, which 604 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 14: he shows no signs of doing, this thing is probably 605 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:34,280 Speaker 14: a done deal. And Mom Donnie is going to walk 606 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:35,720 Speaker 14: into Gracie mansion. 607 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:39,320 Speaker 5: And Lisa, I want to get your take on whether 608 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 5: you think that Andrew Cuomo has a chance to come back. 609 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,280 Speaker 5: I mean, in this final stretch, what's on I think 610 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,880 Speaker 5: is the fact that you've got President Trump, a Republican. 611 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,280 Speaker 3: He and Cuomo. There's no love lost there. 612 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:56,280 Speaker 5: But he's kind of tacitly endorsing or pushing for Cuomo, 613 00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 5: warning of Mam Donnie's mayoral campaign and liking it to 614 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,440 Speaker 5: some type of democratic revolution or some such. 615 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,320 Speaker 3: Can Cuomo dig himself out of this hole? 616 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 6: You know? 617 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:11,360 Speaker 15: Mario, I think you make a really good point, and 618 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,000 Speaker 15: it's one that I don't think that Cuomo can come 619 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:16,840 Speaker 15: out from. I think both he and Curtis Lee will 620 00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:21,240 Speaker 15: represent the old guard and the old News in New York. 621 00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:23,440 Speaker 15: And we know how Manhattan likes to vote. I mean, 622 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:25,720 Speaker 15: we know how the city likes to operate. All those 623 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:29,680 Speaker 15: boroughs really make those decisions based on who can affect 624 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,520 Speaker 15: change at a time when people are looking for it, 625 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:35,480 Speaker 15: and I think that that's what is represented in this candidate. 626 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:40,160 Speaker 15: The President, though, absolutely wants he wants to be able 627 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 15: to have an advocate in the city in Gracie Mansion, 628 00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 15: someone that maybe isn't his best friend, but one that 629 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,320 Speaker 15: he can predict, one that he can understand where he's 630 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:50,920 Speaker 15: going to go. 631 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:52,960 Speaker 3: I've heard other political people. 632 00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,120 Speaker 15: Say that maybe Mom Donnie is the best boil for 633 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:57,840 Speaker 15: Donald Trump because he can appoint to New York City 634 00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:00,920 Speaker 15: over and over again as a city that's not performing 635 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:03,600 Speaker 15: the way the President thinks it ought to be. So 636 00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:06,000 Speaker 15: to me, there's no way that mom Donnie does not 637 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:08,560 Speaker 15: win to me, as long as he makes no more errors. 638 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,680 Speaker 15: Last night's debate was a tremendous performance on his part, 639 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:12,720 Speaker 15: and good for him. 640 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:14,240 Speaker 4: Well there you go. 641 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:17,320 Speaker 2: From both our Democrat and Republican members of the panel. 642 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,959 Speaker 2: Cuomo was making the point, Genie that if you elect 643 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:24,760 Speaker 2: Mom Donnie, you're going to have mayor Trump because tanks 644 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:27,400 Speaker 2: will be rolling in the streets of New York before 645 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:31,000 Speaker 2: election night is even over. Curtis Sliwa had a different 646 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:33,640 Speaker 2: take on this. Let's listen to what mister Sliwa had 647 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:33,960 Speaker 2: to say. 648 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:37,680 Speaker 16: The President is going to back down to you, Angel Cuomo. 649 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:41,960 Speaker 16: I know you think you're the toughest guy alive, but 650 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 16: let me tell you something. You lost your own primary 651 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,600 Speaker 16: right you were rejected by you a Democrat. Do you 652 00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:54,040 Speaker 16: have a difficult to understanding what the term is not 653 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:55,000 Speaker 16: going to stand up to? 654 00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 6: Don Thank you. 655 00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:57,000 Speaker 3: I agree with Curtis. 656 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,800 Speaker 2: I agree with Curtis. Donnie gets in there first of all. 657 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:05,080 Speaker 2: I mean he's got the right accent for the job. Genie, 658 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:07,760 Speaker 2: I guess that's just not worth enough to put him 659 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:11,400 Speaker 2: over the top here. But does he have a point 660 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:15,320 Speaker 2: When it comes to Cuomo, we talked about the difficulty 661 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:19,480 Speaker 2: he had in the primary. His ability to recover seems impossible. 662 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:24,480 Speaker 2: Slee was essentially providing the same analysis. You are, yeah, 663 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:25,720 Speaker 2: and Curtis Lye. 664 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,240 Speaker 14: Why I'm telling you it's a debate to rewatch. He 665 00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:31,080 Speaker 14: had so many good singers. He was calling Cuomo the 666 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:34,800 Speaker 14: architect or the father and Mamdannie The Apprentice. I mean, 667 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,040 Speaker 14: for people who don't like politicians to begin with, it's 668 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:41,760 Speaker 14: a great quip. And you know, Donald Trump was really 669 00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:44,480 Speaker 14: the candidate on the stage who wasn't there. I mean 670 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 14: they kept talking about him, and it's a big deal 671 00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:50,280 Speaker 14: in New York. There is no love lost for hometown 672 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:52,800 Speaker 14: boy Donald Trump in New York City, as we all know. 673 00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:56,680 Speaker 14: And so you know, Curtis Lee what really did have 674 00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,960 Speaker 14: a really good comeback to Andrew Cuomo, and of course 675 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,320 Speaker 14: so did Mum Donnie, because Mum Donnie. 676 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:04,920 Speaker 4: Said, you know, the reality is with Donald Trump. 677 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:08,840 Speaker 14: Number one, he's been attacking New York regardless of who's 678 00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:12,240 Speaker 14: here or not. And number two, you know, the reality 679 00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:16,320 Speaker 14: is is that Andrew Cuomo is going to be another 680 00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,400 Speaker 14: Eric Adams. He's going to be in Donald Trump's pocket. 681 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,480 Speaker 14: He's you know, subject, as Mundannie says, to the same 682 00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:26,400 Speaker 14: big billionaire donors and blah blah blah. And so that 683 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:31,080 Speaker 14: is an attractive message for New Yorkers, you know from Donnie, 684 00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:34,640 Speaker 14: Trump's continued attacks are really helpful in a city that 685 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,240 Speaker 14: doesn't like Donald Trump that much. And one thing I 686 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:41,120 Speaker 14: would say about Sleeve, he's a different Republican because he's 687 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 14: a leading Republican obviously, but one that Donald Trump doesn't 688 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 14: like either. I mean he accused him of wanting to 689 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,520 Speaker 14: bring his cats into Gracie mansion. And so you know, 690 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,360 Speaker 14: for Curtis Sleewa, he's walking this very tight line. 691 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:53,320 Speaker 4: He has a lot of cats. 692 00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:55,440 Speaker 10: For anybody who doesn't know, I love cats. 693 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,560 Speaker 2: So I have no problem with no cats on stage 694 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:02,160 Speaker 2: last evening. And you know, if you made it through 695 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:06,840 Speaker 2: this remarkable debate, you get to the softy questions at 696 00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:08,840 Speaker 2: the end. Usually they last if you could say something 697 00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:12,160 Speaker 2: nice about the other opponent. Last night it was about breakfast. 698 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:15,399 Speaker 2: And if you're a New Yorker and you're asked, I'm 699 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:17,600 Speaker 2: looking at you, Lisa Cabusso Miller, who called the New 700 00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:22,919 Speaker 2: Jersey governor's race based on a pork roll comment from 701 00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:25,319 Speaker 2: Mikey Cheryl, the food stuff's important. If you want to 702 00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:28,600 Speaker 2: pretend to be local, you're never going to fool them. 703 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:32,960 Speaker 2: And the question last night was what is your breakfast 704 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:34,160 Speaker 2: bodega order? 705 00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:36,680 Speaker 4: Let's listen, what's. 706 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:38,520 Speaker 3: Your go to breakfast order at the bodega? 707 00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:42,960 Speaker 16: Mister Sliwa Oh, eggs and cheese on a roll, No 708 00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:44,080 Speaker 16: salt please. 709 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:49,920 Speaker 6: Mister Cuomo, same thing. No salt. Also, mister mom Donnie. 710 00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:51,960 Speaker 3: Hag and cheese on a roll with jalapenos. 711 00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:55,960 Speaker 2: Ah See, Well, wait, you can't pick the same thing 712 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,040 Speaker 2: as the first guy. Even if that was your order, 713 00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:00,880 Speaker 2: don't you need to change it right down the no salt. 714 00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:02,840 Speaker 4: It got us talking here. 715 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:07,480 Speaker 2: In the newsroom, Genie and Lisa, and this became a 716 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:09,640 Speaker 2: cause here for the program on Balance of Power. We 717 00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:11,760 Speaker 2: thought we'd take a little survey the Balance of Power 718 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:13,480 Speaker 2: team Bodega Orders. 719 00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:14,919 Speaker 4: We're all part of this. Now. 720 00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:17,920 Speaker 2: I'm just gonna come right out with it. I'm a bacon, 721 00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:19,839 Speaker 2: egg and cheese on an English muffin guy. You can 722 00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:21,600 Speaker 2: call me an elitist, but that's what I'm gonna do. 723 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:25,480 Speaker 2: It turns out I might not be alone. Justin and 724 00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:28,680 Speaker 2: America's producer James Mahoney both went bacon, egg and cheese, 725 00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:33,200 Speaker 2: but they went with the SPK Mario salt, pepper ketchup Elizabeth, 726 00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:36,520 Speaker 2: egg and cheese on a roll, CC sausage, egg and cheese, 727 00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:37,920 Speaker 2: just like Nicholas. 728 00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:42,160 Speaker 4: Salt and pepper on one, pepper and ketchup on the other. 729 00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:44,000 Speaker 4: So Nicholas is going no salt. How about you? We 730 00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:44,759 Speaker 4: got a minute left? 731 00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:47,800 Speaker 5: Well, I'm from Chicago, so we don't really do the bodega, 732 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:50,439 Speaker 5: but I do see in the movies where they walk 733 00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:51,360 Speaker 5: in and say, hey. 734 00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:52,160 Speaker 3: Give me a chop cheese. 735 00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:56,040 Speaker 2: Okay, just like the movies, Lisa, you're the food expert 736 00:35:56,040 --> 00:36:00,359 Speaker 2: here when it comes to politics. Did Cuomo just lose 737 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:02,400 Speaker 2: the race based on this one question? 738 00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:06,319 Speaker 15: Nah? But listen, it's pork, roleg and cheese all the 739 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:07,319 Speaker 15: way on a hard roll. 740 00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:08,200 Speaker 3: That's the way to go. 741 00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:10,520 Speaker 15: And then no salt just reminds us that these guys 742 00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:11,040 Speaker 15: are old. 743 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:14,120 Speaker 3: Genia. 744 00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:15,960 Speaker 2: Are you gonna give me some tofu or something? What 745 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,359 Speaker 2: are you hitting at the bodega? 746 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:19,240 Speaker 4: You first? 747 00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:19,759 Speaker 3: Number one? 748 00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:21,960 Speaker 14: I feel so much empathy for Andrew Cmo because I 749 00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:23,160 Speaker 14: would have been like, uh, the same. 750 00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:25,239 Speaker 10: I guess I have no idea because I would just 751 00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:26,839 Speaker 10: do coffee. I would be. 752 00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:29,640 Speaker 14: Doing my coffee. I had nothing. I defer to Lisa. 753 00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:34,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, black coffee would have been a pretty cool answer, 754 00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:34,879 Speaker 2: I have to. 755 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:36,879 Speaker 3: Admit, absolutely well. Thank you JD. 756 00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:40,920 Speaker 5: Shanzey No, Lisa Camuso Miller, thank you so much for 757 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:41,640 Speaker 5: joining us here. 758 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:43,480 Speaker 2: A ballance of power, a great hour. We're going to 759 00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:44,960 Speaker 2: be a by the way in New York for the election. 760 00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:47,560 Speaker 2: We'll have special coverage that evening. When we come around 761 00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:49,799 Speaker 2: to November, we'll talk more about that between now and then. 762 00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:52,279 Speaker 2: Great spend on the week with you, Mario Parker, have 763 00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:55,200 Speaker 2: a great weekend, have fun at the fights. I'm Joe Matthew. 764 00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:56,080 Speaker 2: This is Bloomberdy. 765 00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:58,759 Speaker 4: Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast. 766 00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,480 Speaker 2: Make sure to's if you haven't already an Apple, Spotify, 767 00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:05,160 Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts, and you can find 768 00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:08,440 Speaker 2: us live every weekday from Washington, DC at noontime Eastern 769 00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:10,600 Speaker 2: at Bloomberg dot com.