1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,440 Speaker 1: It's hard to believe it's been twenty two years since 2 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:05,240 Speaker 1: the US was attacked on September eleventh, two thousand and one. 3 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:08,400 Speaker 1: On that day, nearly three thousand people were killed in 4 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:10,920 Speaker 1: the attacks on the Twin Towers the Pentagon. In the 5 00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 1: attempted attack that resulted in the crash of United Flight 6 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: ninety three in Somerset County, Pennsylvania, thousands were injured, and 7 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: more than twenty years later, it's likely more people have 8 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:22,800 Speaker 1: died as a result of the pollutants in the period 9 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 1: after the collapse of the Twin Towers. That's according to 10 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: a New York Times article back in twenty twenty one. 11 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 1: Joseph Pfeiffer was there that day. He was in downtown 12 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 1: Manhattan on nine to eleven, investigating with his firefighters the 13 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:37,600 Speaker 1: smell of gas when he witnessed the first plane crash 14 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:40,279 Speaker 1: into the World Trade Center. He was the first FDNY 15 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:42,960 Speaker 1: chief at the scene, and in twenty eighteen, after thirty 16 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: seven years with the FDNY, was the last fire chief 17 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 1: who'd been at ground zero to retire. Two years ago, 18 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 1: on the twentieth anniversary of nine eleven, he published a book, 19 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 1: Ordinary Heroes, a memoir of nine to eleven, Joseph Pfeiffer 20 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 1: joins us. Now he's also, I should note, unretired, having 21 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 1: been appointed FDNY First Deputy Commissioner back in March. Chief, 22 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:05,760 Speaker 1: it's good to have you with us. 23 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 2: Oh, it's good to be here with you today. 24 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:11,040 Speaker 1: You know, every year around this time, I wonder what 25 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 1: people think about who were there that day, and you were, 26 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:15,759 Speaker 1: of course one of the first people who were there 27 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 1: that day. What is this time of year mean to you. 28 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 3: It's a time to remember. It's a time to remember 29 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 3: the tragedy of that day, but it's also a time 30 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 3: to remember how how firefighters ran into danger to save lives. 31 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:36,560 Speaker 3: And there's another thing that we need to remember is 32 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 3: that the global community came together and we supported each 33 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 3: other in one voice against terrorism. 34 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 4: You were the first fire chief at the World Trade 35 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 4: Center on that day, and remarkably, you already had a 36 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 4: documentary film crew with you filming another instance, as far 37 00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 4: as when you were dealing with a routine gas leak. 38 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 4: What kind of goes through your mind whenever you think 39 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 4: back to that moment, having already been down there before 40 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 4: everything began. 41 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:11,919 Speaker 3: I remember it was a beautiful summer morning with bright sunshine, 42 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 3: and we were standing in the street at an ordinary emergency, 43 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:19,919 Speaker 3: and then all of a sudden, we heard a loud 44 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 3: noise of planes coming overhead. And as you know, we 45 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 3: never hear planes in Manhattan because of the tall buildings. 46 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:30,079 Speaker 3: And then I see this plane flying on a very 47 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 3: low altitude, so low I could read on the fuse 48 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:40,240 Speaker 3: large American, and it raced past us at fast speed, 49 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:44,959 Speaker 3: and I saw the plane aim and crashed into the 50 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:50,080 Speaker 3: Oryld Trade Center, And in that moment I knew that 51 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 3: this was no accident, that this was a direct attack, 52 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 3: and that's the message I gave on the radio. And 53 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:05,520 Speaker 3: really in the moment, our entire world changed, and the 54 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 3: next one hundred and two minutes would evolve with the 55 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 3: traumatic memories of what took place. 56 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:18,639 Speaker 1: You must have replayed those moments in your head countless 57 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:20,639 Speaker 1: times at this point. 58 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:22,360 Speaker 2: I do. 59 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 3: And one of the moments I remember is that as 60 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 3: we pulled up to the World Trade Center, we saw 61 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 3: smoke coming out of the top and flames coming out, 62 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 3: and people started to gather by the windows, and we 63 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 3: knew that at that time there would be like twenty 64 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 3: thousand people within the World Trade sent the complex, and 65 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 3: every firefighter, every paramedic, every fire marshal, every police officer, 66 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 3: every responder looked at the burning buildings and they knew 67 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 3: they were going to the most dangerous fire of the 68 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 3: lives and they made a personal choice to go in. 69 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 3: And even though this is our job, this is what 70 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:20,719 Speaker 3: we do, it still was a personal choice to run 71 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:21,360 Speaker 3: into danger. 72 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 4: And your brother Kevin was amongst those that went up. 73 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 4: And it was interesting that the documentary crew that you 74 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:30,839 Speaker 4: were with actually had a moment where the two of 75 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:33,719 Speaker 4: you were talking and he went up there. When you 76 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:36,719 Speaker 4: think back to that moment, how do you feel. 77 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 3: I think back to the moment when he came up 78 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:44,599 Speaker 3: to me without saying a word, and we looked at 79 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:49,839 Speaker 3: each other, wondering if we're both going to be okay, 80 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 3: And then I ordered him to go up to evacuate 81 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 3: and to rescue those that were trapped, And it was 82 00:04:56,680 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 3: the same order I gave many fire offices. And I 83 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:05,159 Speaker 3: think back to that moment, which was a special moment 84 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:09,280 Speaker 3: that we saw each other, and then I saw him 85 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 3: take his unit Engine thirty three and turn to climb 86 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 3: the narrow stairs of the World Trade Center. 87 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:19,920 Speaker 4: So whenever you talk about in your memoir called ordinary heroes. 88 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:23,039 Speaker 4: Is that the ordinary hero that you're talking about. 89 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 3: That is And as my brother went up and other 90 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 3: firefighters went up, people were coming down, and the firefighters 91 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:31,160 Speaker 3: that the. 92 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 2: People don't stop, keep going. 93 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 3: You can make it out of here. Some simple words, 94 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 3: and those words we know from people who survived. Those 95 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 3: words made a difference because they made it out. 96 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 1: When I think about nine to eleven, I remember where 97 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 1: I was, along with many other the people who are 98 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 1: around my age and older, they remember where they were, 99 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 1: They remember what they were experiencing. It was sort of 100 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 1: like a you know, talking to my parents that moment 101 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 1: that John F. Kennedy was killed, or talking to my 102 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:09,160 Speaker 1: grandparents that moment that Pearl Harbor was attacked. Since nine eleven, 103 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:12,840 Speaker 1: tens of millions of Americans have been born people who 104 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:16,280 Speaker 1: only heard about nine to eleven as stories. They didn't 105 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:19,039 Speaker 1: live through it, They didn't experience it. How do you 106 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 1: keep the memory of these ordinary heroes, keep the legacy 107 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:27,839 Speaker 1: of them in a world where it's increasingly becoming a 108 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 1: distant memory. 109 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 3: The memory of nine to eleven is part of history, 110 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:35,839 Speaker 3: and certainly are young people many of them were even born, 111 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:41,720 Speaker 3: and they can read about it. But they also can 112 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 3: see documentaries, and I think that's a different experience that 113 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 3: they actually looking at a documentary experience it again. And 114 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:56,159 Speaker 3: the question for us, I think, is what do we 115 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:59,600 Speaker 3: want them to learn from it. Is this just an 116 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 3: event they look at it on a program, or is 117 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 3: it is there more meaning to it? And I believe 118 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 3: that we want our young people to understand what took 119 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 3: place that day, and we do it with our prodictionary firefighters. 120 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 3: We bring them to the nine to eleven Museum and 121 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 3: for them to walk around and see the burnt out 122 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 3: fire trucks. We want them to experience what took place. 123 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 3: But I think as they look at this event as 124 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:40,800 Speaker 3: part of history and they see our firefighters and first 125 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 3: responders running in, they see them as superheroes running into danger. 126 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:54,480 Speaker 3: And you know, it can never be a superhero. It's 127 00:07:54,600 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 3: just too difficult to do those things. And what I 128 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 3: tell them is that on that day, our heroes did 129 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 3: ordinary things but at an extraordinary time. And I think 130 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 3: when they think of nine to eleven as that as 131 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 3: ordinary heroes, they can start to imagine themselves as being 132 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 3: one of those heroes. And we need that today more 133 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 3: than anything else. We need our new generation, our young 134 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:35,360 Speaker 3: generation to tackle some of the problems that we're experiencing. 135 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:39,080 Speaker 3: Not only do we have to deal with acts of 136 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 3: violence and terrorism and homeland security issues, but we have 137 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 3: issues of climate change or what I'm referring to now 138 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:58,439 Speaker 3: as climate security. How do we deal with the heat, 139 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 3: the wildfire that we saw in Mali, the storms, and 140 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 3: I think that's what our new generation, our young generation, 141 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:20,199 Speaker 3: should see themselves as part of the solution to those problems. 142 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 4: Earlier this year, you actually came out of retirement to 143 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:26,959 Speaker 4: take on a new job as the nation's largest fire 144 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:30,439 Speaker 4: department here and you were named first Deputy Commissioners that's 145 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 4: the second highest civilian rank in the department managing those 146 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:37,200 Speaker 4: day to day operations. So very impressive. What motivated you 147 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 4: to do this after you did retire from the FDN 148 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:41,680 Speaker 4: Y in twenty eighteen. 149 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 3: It's coming back to the fire department that I love, 150 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:50,320 Speaker 3: that's so much part of my life and saying, yeah, 151 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 3: I got some more work to do. There's other things 152 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 3: that I can do now. As I mentioned, it's not 153 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:03,080 Speaker 3: only respond to emergencies here, but how do we shape 154 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 3: to deployment, to deal with lithium battery fires and to 155 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 3: deal with the climate change safety issues, So it's it's 156 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 3: for me, it's exciting going to work every day. 157 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 1: It's pretty remarkable that in the last twenty years, twenty 158 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:29,440 Speaker 1: two years and moving forward, we'll probably see more people 159 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:33,319 Speaker 1: die as a result of the toxins the pollutants at 160 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:37,359 Speaker 1: Ground Zero than who were actually killed in the attacks. 161 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 1: And we continue to see members of the FDN Y 162 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:45,679 Speaker 1: die each year as a result of this. How do 163 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 1: we keep those heroes in our memory even though they're 164 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:53,959 Speaker 1: dealing with the health effects decades later. 165 00:10:54,880 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 3: It's hard to believe that twenty two years later, we're 166 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:06,720 Speaker 3: coaching the number of our firefighters that died on nine 167 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 3: to eleven. We lost three hundred and forty three of 168 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 3: our members and we're approaching that number. We're at three 169 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:19,319 Speaker 3: hundred and forty one that died from Post nine to 170 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:25,320 Speaker 3: eleven diseases from from the toxics that that you've mentioned. 171 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 3: And we keep those memories alive by in the FDN 172 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 3: Y by putting their names up on a on a wall, 173 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:40,280 Speaker 3: and we're putting up for this year forty three names 174 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 3: that have just died in the in the in the 175 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 3: last year. So we have at our fire Department headquarters 176 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:51,359 Speaker 3: a plaque of with the names of all the firefighters 177 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 3: that have died since the beginning of the FDNY and opposite, 178 00:11:56,800 --> 00:12:00,960 Speaker 3: including the nine to eleven nine to eleven firefighters, an 179 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:05,560 Speaker 3: opposite that are the fighters and our members and our 180 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 3: medical ems folks that died post nine to eleven. 181 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:14,560 Speaker 4: As we come to this twenty second anniversary, whenever you're 182 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:17,320 Speaker 4: speaking with family members of those who are going to 183 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:20,440 Speaker 4: have their names added, how are they feeling at this moment? 184 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:25,199 Speaker 3: There's a level of sadness, but at the same time, 185 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 3: there's a sense that we're supporting each other and they're 186 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 3: not alone. And I think coming together as department and 187 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:44,840 Speaker 3: other family members that have lost loved ones, we stand 188 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:49,280 Speaker 3: arm in arm, and we stand arm with the city 189 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 3: of New York and the country and even the world, 190 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 3: and in that sense, we can make it through it. 191 00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 1: Do you think there's more work to be done in 192 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 1: taking care of those not just members of the FDN Y, 193 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 1: but those who are living with the effects of nine 194 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 1: to eleven. Is there more that Congress can do? 195 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 3: There's definitely more that Congress can do. 196 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:11,600 Speaker 2: They could continue to. 197 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 3: Fund our medical programs and we're dependent on that and 198 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:27,560 Speaker 3: FDN Y for the people who have got sick that 199 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 3: they've survived. Actually eighty five percent of them survived longer 200 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:36,679 Speaker 3: than what was expected because of our medical programs, and 201 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:44,320 Speaker 3: those medical programs aren't cheap and seeing physicians and treatment. 202 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:52,720 Speaker 3: So Congress has a responsibility to care for the victims, 203 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 3: not just from that day, but the victims that we're 204 00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:02,200 Speaker 3: seeing now. And so I would I would ask Congress 205 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 3: for our families and of future families who are suffering 206 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 3: from from nine to eleven cancer, to to continue to 207 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:16,080 Speaker 3: help those families. 208 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:19,280 Speaker 1: What motivates you to keep serving? As Jess mentioned, you 209 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:22,880 Speaker 1: unretired after nearly forty years with the FDNY, and I 210 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 1: think a lot of people in your position would would say, hey, 211 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:28,360 Speaker 1: that was that was a great career. A lot of 212 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:30,120 Speaker 1: people probably said to you, that was a great career. 213 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:38,800 Speaker 3: I like the term unretired the first time. It's actually 214 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 3: fun being unretired, going back and looking at new challenges 215 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 3: and looking at the complexities we have to deal with, 216 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 3: and bringing together our experienced people and our young people 217 00:14:55,840 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 3: coming in and saying okay, we can do this together. Uh, 218 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:04,280 Speaker 3: we could protect the city. We we can deal with 219 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:11,520 Speaker 3: new challenges, new disasters, and we can do it together, 220 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 3: which is the secret. And and it's not just with 221 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 3: an FD and Y. I work closely with n Y 222 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:23,359 Speaker 3: p D and UH and Emergency Management and and and 223 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 3: the city should be proud. There's there's some good people 224 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 3: serving New York City. 225 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 1: Well, Chief Fiffer, thank you so much for joining us. 226 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 1: Really appreciate you taking the time. 227 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 2: And thank you. It's great to be with both of you.