1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Holly 3 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:17,600 Speaker 1: Frye and I'm Tracy V. Wilson. Oh, this is another 4 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:19,919 Speaker 1: edition of person I've had on my list for a 5 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:22,760 Speaker 1: million years. We've both had a lot of them. Lately, 6 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:25,919 Speaker 1: I'm trying to like revisit that list and not just 7 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 1: put names on it and then hide it on my 8 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 1: phone and not think about it again and then later 9 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: be like I don't know what to talk about it. 10 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:35,560 Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, hey, brainiac, you have a whole list 11 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:38,199 Speaker 1: of things that you've wanted to talk about. I had 12 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:42,200 Speaker 1: an internal conversation recently about whether to like just scrap 13 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 1: my short list and start over because it's gotten so 14 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 1: long and so many of the names now I just 15 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:56,800 Speaker 1: keep looking at and not not doing I'm picking and choosing. Yeah, 16 00:00:56,800 --> 00:00:59,280 Speaker 1: this is one that I have wanted to do for 17 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 1: a while. You know. It's architectural, which I guess follows 18 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 1: and my discussions of people in the arts, but it 19 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 1: also I had come upon a thing recently where I 20 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 1: literally overheard a kid in an airport talking to his 21 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 1: mom about where skyscrapers came from like when did buildings 22 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:26,560 Speaker 1: get so tall? And I was like, don't tell him, 23 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:31,119 Speaker 1: don't tell him, but I know at least the start, 24 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 1: and I figured now as this good a time as 25 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:35,639 Speaker 1: any to talk about that. So we are talking about 26 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: a man who is to me similar to Jean Baptiste Lulie, 27 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:44,679 Speaker 1: and that he was kind of a pain in the 28 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 1: neck to people that knew him, but was also you know, 29 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 1: certainly has been lauded as a genius, and I think 30 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 1: a little bit more than luli In his time, there 31 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 1: were people that liked him and tried tried to make 32 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 1: for him even after his like heyday was done. But 33 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 1: if you have ever heard the phrase form follows function, 34 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:10,360 Speaker 1: that is attributed to this man, and you will see 35 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 1: why as we talk about his work and how it's 36 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 1: often inspired by nature, and how he had this whole 37 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 1: ideology about architecture in the United States and how architecture 38 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 1: should have its own unique American identity, and how he 39 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 1: really tried to push boundaries in that regard and it 40 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:31,239 Speaker 1: didn't always work out. But so today we are talking 41 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 1: about Louis Henry Sullivan or sometimes you'll see it Louis 42 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 1: Arie Sullivan, because his mother was Swiss. He seemed to 43 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 1: not really use the middle name so much that I 44 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 1: saw one way or the other. I think he just 45 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 1: let it be Americanized and let people do what they preferred. So. 46 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 1: Louis Henry or Arie Sullivan was born September third, eighteen 47 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:02,800 Speaker 1: fifty six, in Boston, Massachusett. His father, Patrick Sullivan was 48 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 1: Irish and taught dance, and his mother, Audrian Friends was 49 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 1: liszt as Holly just said, was Swiss. He later wrote 50 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 1: of her quote, she seemed French but not wholly so 51 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 1: which I love that quote. Louis was their second child. 52 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 1: He had a brother named Albert Walter Sullivan, who was 53 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: two years older. When the boys were young, the Sullivans 54 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 1: spent at least one summer on Cape Anne in a 55 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 1: small area known as Folly Cove. Louis later relayed that 56 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 1: he almost drowned there one day, and that a local 57 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 1: farmer had saved him. In eighteen sixty nine, the Sullivans 58 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 1: moved to Chicago, Illinois, but Louis didn't go with them. 59 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 1: He stayed with his grandparents outside of Boston. Sullivan wrote 60 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 1: about all of this in his autobiography in a pretty 61 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 1: quaint way, noting that his grandparents really desperately wanted one 62 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 1: of their grandchildren to live with them. This autobiography, which 63 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 1: will quote from a lot, is in the third person, 64 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 1: and he wrote, quote the farm had been but recently acquired, 65 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 1: and the child appeared shortly thereafter as a greedy parasite 66 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 1: to absorb that affection, that abundant warmth of heart which 67 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 1: only Grandma and Grandpa have the intuitive folly to bestow. 68 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 1: In short, they loved him and kept him bodily clean. 69 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 1: Louis attended public school, which he described as a dreary prison, 70 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:33,840 Speaker 1: but he also said he didn't have any real memories 71 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 1: of it, calling this time a quote gray blank. When 72 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:42,480 Speaker 1: writing of his early years, Sullivan describes himself as quote 73 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 1: not an enfanteried, but but rather an independent, isolated compound 74 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:52,359 Speaker 1: of fury, curiosity, and tenderness. He hated most of his 75 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 1: school lessons because they were perpetually pondering abstract questions featuring 76 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 1: fictional scenarios. Occasionally, he'd kind of rally and do really 77 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 1: well with his schoolwork for a while to try to 78 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:07,039 Speaker 1: please his grandmother, but then he would get bored again 79 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 1: and kind of stop achieving. He was often in trouble 80 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 1: and described being whipped across the hands with a ratan 81 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 1: and class. By his own account, he was his grandparents pet. 82 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:21,160 Speaker 1: They let him do largely as he pleased, and that 83 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:25,159 Speaker 1: involved a lot of gardening. As a boy, he often 84 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:29,600 Speaker 1: skipped school and wandered around the countryside. He also describes 85 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 1: being just enthralled anytime he saw people at work. The 86 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:39,280 Speaker 1: idea of work and being industrious was intriguing to him. Yeah, 87 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 1: he was like this kid that was kind of rebellious, 88 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 1: but not in a troublemakery kind of way. He writes 89 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 1: about how like he was not one of those boys that, 90 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 1: like in the stereotypical way of the day, wanted to 91 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 1: get in fights and make messes and be dirty. He 92 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 1: just like wanted to go sit in fields and look 93 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 1: at flowers and grasses much farmers do in their thing. 94 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:03,279 Speaker 1: Ye yes uh. Louis enrolled at the Massachusetts Institute of 95 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:07,720 Speaker 1: Technology in eighteen seventy two to study architecture, and at 96 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:10,040 Speaker 1: the time, the program, which came to be known as 97 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 1: the School of Architecture and Planning was still very new. 98 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:16,799 Speaker 1: It had been founded in eighteen sixty five by architect 99 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 1: William Robert Ware Initially, the program was a one or 100 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 1: two year course of study, set up as sort of 101 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:25,360 Speaker 1: like a graduate program. You either had to have had 102 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 1: an undergraduate degree or some experience in the field to 103 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 1: enroll in it, and when Sullivan enrolled, the program had 104 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:36,480 Speaker 1: only been actively offering formal education for about four years 105 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:39,839 Speaker 1: because prior to eighteen sixty eight, that three years between 106 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 1: the founding and then the curriculum was still in its 107 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 1: planning stages. But even though the program was not long, 108 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 1: Sullivan got frustrated with it. He left less than a 109 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:52,599 Speaker 1: year in. He thought he might go to Paris to 110 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 1: study in the architecture program at Acol de Bozar, but 111 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:58,599 Speaker 1: he ended up taking the path of an apprentice working 112 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 1: at the Furnace and Hewitt firm of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. He 113 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 1: didn't stay there long either, though, just a few months. 114 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:09,159 Speaker 1: Sullivan's next move was to Chicago. By the end of 115 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 1: eighteen seventy three, he had secured a job there in 116 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 1: William le Baron Jenny's office. Jenny had established his office 117 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 1: in Chicago after having been an engineering officer in the 118 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:22,680 Speaker 1: US Civil War. This would have seemed like a perfect fit, 119 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 1: but Sullivan was still restless and there just wasn't enough 120 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 1: money flowing into construction to keep him occupied. In eighteen 121 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 1: seventy four, he finally set out for Paris with the 122 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 1: intent to study there. So this might seem like Louis 123 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 1: Sullivan was finally achieving his dream. But if it was, 124 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 1: he really wasn't any more focused at ecl de Bozar 125 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 1: than he had been anywhere else. It's worth noting that 126 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 1: he would have been just about eighteen at this point. 127 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: Maybe it's not all that surprising that he found himself 128 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 1: distracted by the possibilities of his time in Europe. I'm 129 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 1: forty seven, I would be distracted. Instead of studying, he 130 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 1: did things like tour Italy. He was incredibly moved by 131 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 1: the art of Michelangelo, which he saw for the first 132 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:15,240 Speaker 1: time while visiting Rome. He spent two full days in 133 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 1: the Sistine Chapel, mostly by himself, and in his words 134 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 1: quote communed in the silence with a superman. Yeah, he 135 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: really held Michelangelo in extraordinarily high regard. He also spent 136 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 1: a little time in the workshop of Emil vau Remat, 137 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 1: who taught at Bozaar. So even though Sullivan wasn't a 138 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:36,600 Speaker 1: great student, it does seem like his educators saw some 139 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 1: promise in him, and he had been the only American 140 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 1: student admitted into the school that year. That was something 141 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:46,440 Speaker 1: that was made possible by him working pretty quickly to 142 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 1: gain affluency in French just so he could pass the 143 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 1: entrance exams. He was so smart and seemed so full 144 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 1: of promise, but none of the avenues of study that 145 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 1: he tried really gave him anything but frustration that he 146 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 1: wasn't creating more and learning history less. He kind of 147 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:07,319 Speaker 1: felt like he was getting like memorize previous forms of 148 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: architecture rather than being taught how to actually do things. 149 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 1: He left Paris after less than a year there and 150 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:19,080 Speaker 1: returned to Chicago in the early summer of eighteen seventy five. Initially, 151 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 1: Sullivan's work in Chicago after he returned from Europe was 152 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:27,320 Speaker 1: as a contractor draftsman. This freelance life gave him an 153 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 1: opportunity to work with a lot of architecture offices to 154 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 1: see what he liked. During these contract jobs, Sullivan was 155 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 1: introduced to a man named Dankmar Adler. Adler was twelve 156 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 1: years older than Louis Sullivan. He'd been born in Prussia 157 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 1: on July third, eighteen forty four and moved to the 158 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:47,439 Speaker 1: United States at the age of ten. While he was 159 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:52,719 Speaker 1: still a teenager, Adler started studying architecture. In eighteen sixty one, 160 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:56,560 Speaker 1: he moved to Chicago found work as a draftsman, working 161 00:09:56,640 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 1: under Augustus Bauer. Adler was in the middle a rapid 162 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 1: rise in the architectural world when the US Civil War began. 163 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 1: He served in the war and then immediately went back 164 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:11,559 Speaker 1: to Chicago when it ended, once again with Bauer. Initially, 165 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 1: although he worked for several other firms as well, He 166 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 1: started a firm with Edward Berling in eighteen seventy one. 167 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:23,160 Speaker 1: In eighteen seventy nine, Sullivan started working for Adler's office. 168 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 1: This was the same year that Adler famously designed Chicago's 169 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 1: Central Music Hall, which established many of the standards of 170 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 1: the music venues that followed. One reason this structure became 171 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 1: the prototype of music halls around the city and then 172 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:40,679 Speaker 1: around the country was that Adler had carefully designed it 173 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 1: to optimize the building's acoustics for musical performance. Any biography 174 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 1: you see of Adler, they talk about how acoustics were 175 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 1: like his area of expertise. The project was one that 176 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 1: Adler undertook as an independent architect after he broke from 177 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 1: his previous business partner, Edward Berling. After two years of 178 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 1: work at the Adler firm and having hand designed some 179 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 1: incredible ornamentation for various projects, Louis Sullivan was made partner 180 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 1: and the firm's name was updated to Adler and Sullivan Architects. 181 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:14,320 Speaker 1: And at this point things really took off for both 182 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 1: of them because they were a perfect combination. Adler had 183 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 1: this deep understanding of things like acoustics and engineering, but 184 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:23,960 Speaker 1: he didn't have as much of a knack for the 185 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:26,680 Speaker 1: creative design aspects of the job, and that was where 186 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 1: Sullivan really shown there's a reason Chicago had so many 187 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:35,080 Speaker 1: construction projects going on in the eighteen eighties. This was 188 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:38,840 Speaker 1: after the eighteen seventy one Chicago fire. So yes, that's 189 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:43,720 Speaker 1: the fire with the O'Leary cow mythology. The actual cause 190 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 1: of the initial fire is not known, but after it 191 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 1: started in the southwest quadrant of the city, it spread 192 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:54,559 Speaker 1: really rapidly thanks to hot, dry conditions. Over the course 193 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:57,320 Speaker 1: of a day and a half, it destroyed three and 194 00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:00,440 Speaker 1: a half square miles of the city. An estimated one 195 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 1: hundred thousand people lost their homes. Several hundred people died 196 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:08,679 Speaker 1: after this tragedy. The city needed to rebuild a lot 197 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:14,680 Speaker 1: of infrastructure, residences, government, and commercial buildings simultaneously. It also 198 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 1: expanded well beyond its pre fire footprints. So for architects 199 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 1: in the eighteen eighties there was a steady stream of work. Yeah, 200 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:26,440 Speaker 1: there's a whole lot of Chicago history. You can look 201 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 1: up around like that moment where they decide is the 202 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:32,440 Speaker 1: city doomed? No, We're just going to rebuild it, and 203 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:35,080 Speaker 1: they kind of take a very proactive approach to being 204 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 1: as smart about building as they could. We will talk 205 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:41,319 Speaker 1: some about the work that Adler and Sullivan did in 206 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 1: Chicago as well as other places after we first paused 207 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:56,560 Speaker 1: for a sponsor break. We talked before the break about 208 00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 1: why Chicago was such a good place to be an 209 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:03,120 Speaker 1: architect in the late nineteenth century. Additionally, there is a 210 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 1: reason that Chicago is where the first skyscraper was built, 211 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 1: although by modern standards we'd think of it as pretty tiny. 212 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 1: It was just ten floors in less than one hundred 213 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:15,720 Speaker 1: and fifty feet tall. That was the Home Life Insurance 214 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 1: building built by William L. Barn Jenny, who you may 215 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:22,560 Speaker 1: recall Sullivan worked for at one point. So Chicago is 216 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 1: on the shore of Lake Michigan, and it is hemmed 217 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 1: in by the Chicago River, and in the late nineteenth 218 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:30,560 Speaker 1: century it also had industrial yards that were kind of 219 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:35,080 Speaker 1: creating some barriers around the city that prevented sprawl. So 220 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 1: where it couldn't build out, it very purposely built up, 221 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:43,200 Speaker 1: and Adler and Sullivan were in the right career and 222 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:45,680 Speaker 1: the right place at the right time to be part 223 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 1: of this. While Adler and Sullivan worked on a wide 224 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 1: variety of residential and commercial properties, one of their most 225 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:56,720 Speaker 1: well known projects is the Auditorium Building of Chicago that 226 00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:59,440 Speaker 1: was started in eighteen eighty six and completed in eighteen 227 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 1: eighty nine. Leading up to this point, they'd worked on 228 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 1: a number of music halls and theaters together, combining Adler's 229 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 1: skills in acoustic engineering with Sullivan's talent for exquisite ornamentation. 230 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 1: So a large scale project that included a performance space 231 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:18,800 Speaker 1: was exactly the kind of thing they were perfect for. 232 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 1: This was a mixed use building project. It had to 233 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 1: include obviously an auditorium with seating for four thousand, but 234 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:30,640 Speaker 1: also an office building and a four hundred room hotel. 235 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 1: Ferdinand wife Peck was a lawyer in Chicago who was 236 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: also community minded. He was on the city's Board of Education, 237 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 1: and he was a founder of the Illinois Humane Society, 238 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 1: and he was a strong supporter of the arts. And 239 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:49,360 Speaker 1: he spearheaded the Auditorium building project, which was intended to 240 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:53,680 Speaker 1: make cultural events like opera accessible to all of Chicago's citizens, 241 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: regardless of socioeconomic status. The hotel element of this project 242 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 1: had been added to the plan as a way to 243 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:06,040 Speaker 1: subsidize the cost of running the performance space. But this 244 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 1: entire project was not just an issue of problem solving 245 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 1: from an engineering and design standpoint. It was also an 246 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 1: effort on the part of Chicago's business leaders to try 247 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 1: to ease the tensions that had developed in the city 248 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 1: as industrialization had created a very obvious separation between the 249 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 1: wealthy and the poor who worked for them. They were 250 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:28,600 Speaker 1: hoping like, hey, we'll all come together and enjoy the 251 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 1: arts and that might help smooth things out, which is 252 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:33,520 Speaker 1: a little bit of a I'll just be kind and say, 253 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:38,680 Speaker 1: idealistic way to look at the problem. For context, just 254 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 1: so you understand how kind of fraught the situation was 255 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 1: in Chicago. The Haymarket affair, which we have talked about 256 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 1: on the show before, had taken place in May of 257 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 1: eighteen eighty six, just a couple months before this project started. 258 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 1: This was at a time when the marshall Field Department Store, 259 00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 1: designed by HH Richardson, was being built near and that 260 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 1: was inspirational for Sullivan in that it was not an 261 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 1: overly done building. Richardson had opted to let the exterior 262 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 1: stone be its own ornamentation instead of adding a whole 263 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 1: bunch of additional pieces. For Sullivan, who wanted to break 264 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:18,320 Speaker 1: away from the traditional design that he had found so 265 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 1: frustrating when studying in school, the marshall Field building was 266 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 1: like a green light. While finishing the auditorium building, Adler 267 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 1: and Sullivan moved their offices to the complex's tower, and 268 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 1: there on the sixteenth floor, they had a full view 269 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:37,800 Speaker 1: of the city. This building looks solid and it is 270 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 1: despite being built on a tricky base of unstable soil. 271 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:45,400 Speaker 1: Adler designed a really unique foundation for this structure, with 272 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 1: multiple isolated peers that each hold up their own sections 273 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 1: of the building's weight, and those peers kind of sank 274 00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 1: into position as a floating foundation. As the construction was 275 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 1: carried out, A combination of wrought iron and cast iron 276 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:02,840 Speaker 1: support give the auditorium a degree of flexibility as well. 277 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 1: Inside is one beautiful piece of ornamentation after another. There 278 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:13,960 Speaker 1: are luminous surfaces and intricacies just everywhere. There are mosaic floors, 279 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:17,919 Speaker 1: warm tones of marble, and gilded trims, and the theater 280 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:21,879 Speaker 1: was one of the first to have electric lighting illuminating it, 281 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:24,879 Speaker 1: so all those beautiful finishes gave off a warm and 282 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:29,400 Speaker 1: inviting glow. Even the plaster used for the interior walls 283 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:32,879 Speaker 1: was carefully selected for the way it helped amplify sound 284 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 1: without distorting it, and it was specifically designed for fire safety, 285 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:42,720 Speaker 1: with egress passages built into all of these beautifully adorned features. 286 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:46,399 Speaker 1: Later in life, Louis wrote in the third person about 287 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:50,160 Speaker 1: the design of the auditorium, quote, Louis's heart went into 288 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 1: this structure. It is old time now, but its tower 289 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:56,439 Speaker 1: holds its head in the air as a tower should, 290 00:17:57,080 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 1: so sweet. Another significant relationship began during the work on 291 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 1: the auditorium building. Frank Lloyd Wright joined the firm as 292 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 1: Sullivan's apprentice, and he was hired because this was a 293 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:11,879 Speaker 1: huge project and Sullivan really needed some help in the design. 294 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:15,880 Speaker 1: Of the Auditorium. Wright understood his vision, so he came 295 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:20,240 Speaker 1: on as a draftsman. Soon he was the project's lead draftsman. 296 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:25,240 Speaker 1: The Auditorium Building was not Adler and Sullivan's sole project. 297 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 1: Their firm took on a lot of others while this 298 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:31,879 Speaker 1: structure was being built. One of those was the Wainwright 299 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:35,640 Speaker 1: Building in Saint Louis. This project began in eighteen ninety one, 300 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:38,399 Speaker 1: and it's significant because it was the first building to 301 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 1: successfully implement steel frame construction. It's a ten story building. 302 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:48,119 Speaker 1: The first two floors, which have a brown sandstone exterior, 303 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:52,240 Speaker 1: are emphasized visually over the upper floors. Floors three through 304 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:55,640 Speaker 1: nine have a brick exterior, and the tenth story has 305 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 1: a more decorative outer finish, adorned with a scroll work 306 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:03,160 Speaker 1: of leaves and circular windows and an overhanging roof. While 307 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:07,359 Speaker 1: the Wainwright Building is often lauded as Sullivan's greatest technical achievement, 308 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:09,679 Speaker 1: we have to note that he did not originate the 309 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:12,400 Speaker 1: idea of using a steel frame to support a building. 310 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 1: That goes back to his former employer William Labarn Jenny, 311 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 1: who we already credited as having built the first skyscraper, 312 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:23,320 Speaker 1: but Sullivan innovated the idea by breaking away stylistically from 313 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:27,160 Speaker 1: the traditional architectural styles that it left other architects sort 314 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:29,959 Speaker 1: of stymied in terms of how they could add the 315 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 1: height that a steel structure would enable to existing styles 316 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:36,440 Speaker 1: without creating a visual mess. It's kind of like, if 317 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:40,159 Speaker 1: you imagine suddenly something like Versailles getting taller and taller 318 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 1: and taller, it would be very strange. And that's why 319 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:46,160 Speaker 1: Sullivan was like, but what if we just changed the style. 320 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 1: Sullivan also designed a number of cemetery tombs in addition 321 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 1: to buildings. Eliza Getty's tomb in Chicago's Graceland Cemetery is 322 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:01,359 Speaker 1: considered one of the most beautiful structure in the cemetery. 323 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 1: Commissioned in eighteen ninety, it's a building that's solid and 324 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:09,480 Speaker 1: squared off, but also has a honeycomb design carved into it, 325 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 1: so it references the natural living world while also providing 326 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:17,800 Speaker 1: a final resting place. It's sometimes considered the first example 327 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 1: of Sullivan's entree into what came to be known as 328 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:23,560 Speaker 1: the Chicago School, which we'll talk about in a bit. 329 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 1: In eighteen ninety one, work started on the Charley House 330 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:31,160 Speaker 1: that's a residence that feels very familiar when you look 331 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:33,200 Speaker 1: at it, if you know the work of Frank Lloyd Wright. 332 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:36,879 Speaker 1: And Wright worked a lot on the project, and during construction, 333 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 1: Sullivan continued to show him the way that careful, beautiful 334 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 1: ornamentation inspired by nature could elevate a building that was 335 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 1: otherwise quite bold in its lines and materials. In eighteen 336 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 1: ninety three, several significant things happened for Sullivan. First, there 337 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:57,639 Speaker 1: was the Columbian Exposition. A name we mentioned earlier was 338 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:01,200 Speaker 1: involved in the planning. Ferdinand Peck, who was vice president 339 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 1: of the Expo, and Sullivan, had envisioned this world's fare 340 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 1: as an opportunity to showcase the emerging US style of architecture. 341 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 1: It didn't really play out as he hoped at all, 342 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:19,440 Speaker 1: though Louis wrote of the exposition quote, Chicago was ripe 343 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 1: and ready for such an undertaking. It had required enthusiasm 344 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:27,200 Speaker 1: and the will. It won out in a contest between 345 00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:29,840 Speaker 1: the cities. The prize was now in hand. It was 346 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 1: to be the city's crowning glory. A superb site on 347 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 1: the Lake adjoined the southern section of the city. This 348 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:41,159 Speaker 1: site was to be transformed and embellished by the magic 349 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:46,080 Speaker 1: of American prowess, particularly in architectural aspects, as to set 350 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:50,160 Speaker 1: forth the genius of the land in that great creative art. 351 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:53,480 Speaker 1: It was to be a dream city where one might 352 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 1: revel in beauty. It was to be called the White 353 00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:00,600 Speaker 1: City by the Lake. That location so out aside for 354 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:04,879 Speaker 1: the Expo was carved out specifically so tourists wouldn't see 355 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:08,879 Speaker 1: any of the less appealing parts of Chicago. Yeah. I mean, 356 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:10,879 Speaker 1: I think if you've lived in any city where a 357 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:15,439 Speaker 1: big international something has gone on, we've all seen this happen. 358 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 1: When it came to planning the site for the expo, 359 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:23,000 Speaker 1: landscape architect Frederick law Olmsted, who has also come up 360 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:27,000 Speaker 1: on the show before, laid out the site. Architect John 361 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 1: Root was the project's consulting architect and his partner, architect 362 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:35,400 Speaker 1: Daniel Hudson Burnham, was named chief of construction, and Burnham 363 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:38,560 Speaker 1: had the idea to invite ten of the most respected 364 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 1: architects of the US to participate, five from the East 365 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:45,960 Speaker 1: and five from the West, suggesting that each contribute a design, 366 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:49,399 Speaker 1: and Sullivan was of course among them. The auditorium building 367 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 1: in particular, had really put him on the map. Also 368 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:57,240 Speaker 1: included where William Labaron, Jenny Henry van Brunn, George b. Post, 369 00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:02,159 Speaker 1: Robert Peabody, Charles McKim, and Richard Morris Hunt. The first 370 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:05,159 Speaker 1: meeting of all the architects took place in February eighteen 371 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 1: ninety one, and they were all to bring their design 372 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:10,399 Speaker 1: ideas with them, and this was, to be clear, a 373 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 1: really significant moment. It was kind of like the All 374 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:16,159 Speaker 1: Star Game of architecture, and it was recognized at the 375 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,120 Speaker 1: time as one of the most significant meeting of artists 376 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 1: of all time. But John Root had died the month 377 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:26,439 Speaker 1: before the meeting unexpectedly, and he was not replaced. That 378 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,560 Speaker 1: was an incident that Sullivan would later describe as a 379 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:33,200 Speaker 1: quote shadow of a white cloud falling over the project. 380 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:36,359 Speaker 1: As the construction of the site was carried out and 381 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 1: the expo opened, Sullivan was so disappointed by the whole 382 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:44,680 Speaker 1: thing he later wrote in his autobiography, quote, the damage 383 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 1: wrought by the World's Fair will last for half a 384 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:51,320 Speaker 1: century from its date, if not longer. It has penetrated 385 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:54,920 Speaker 1: deep into the constitution of the American mind, affecting their 386 00:23:55,160 --> 00:24:01,880 Speaker 1: lesions significant of dementia. He found the fervor for replicating 387 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:06,119 Speaker 1: Renaissance and classic architecture to be just a complete letdown 388 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 1: on the part of his peers at a time when 389 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:12,360 Speaker 1: they could all be showing their originality, most of them 390 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:16,920 Speaker 1: had instead decided to go very traditional routes, except for Sullivan. 391 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,480 Speaker 1: He also described the people who had visited and then 392 00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:23,480 Speaker 1: gone home to talk about the Expo as people who 393 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:27,399 Speaker 1: were carrying a contagion. He really felt that part of 394 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:31,399 Speaker 1: the creative responsibility of the architects was quote an elevation 395 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 1: of the public taste. He really did not see that. 396 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:39,359 Speaker 1: At the Columbia Expo, the Beaux Art style was selected 397 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 1: as the design style for the White City, with a 398 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:46,240 Speaker 1: court of honors surrounding his central water feature. But Adler 399 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:48,960 Speaker 1: and Sullivan as a firm, did not do that. Their 400 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 1: transportation building, designed by Sullivan, featured color and original ornamentation 401 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 1: and an entry known as the Golden Door, which featured 402 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 1: concentric gold arcs that recessed with each successively smaller curve, 403 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:05,960 Speaker 1: kind of inviting someone to walk in. This building was 404 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,199 Speaker 1: a huge break from the rest of the buildings at 405 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:10,879 Speaker 1: the Expo, and it got a lot of attention a 406 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,680 Speaker 1: lot of people. Historically, of course, it got torn down 407 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:16,119 Speaker 1: because it was part of a temporary expo setup. But 408 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:18,480 Speaker 1: a lot of people have talked about how this was 409 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:22,399 Speaker 1: really an incredible achievement. But most people that visited the 410 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:25,840 Speaker 1: Expo and the White City talked about it for a 411 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:30,040 Speaker 1: long time, having been impressed and reassured by the other 412 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:33,719 Speaker 1: people's nods back to history and what felt like, you know, 413 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 1: a stable part of global history that would carry them 414 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:40,720 Speaker 1: forward in a way where they had built on the 415 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:44,600 Speaker 1: work of others. So we'll take another little sponsor break 416 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 1: and then come back to talk about Sullivan's later years, 417 00:25:47,880 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 1: which were rather difficult. After the let down of the Expo, 418 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 1: there was more difficulty for Louis Sullivan. The depression that 419 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:07,959 Speaker 1: followed the Panic of eighteen ninety three meant that all 420 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,720 Speaker 1: of the building projects that had been so abundant in 421 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 1: the eighteen eighties were no longer coming in, and the 422 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:18,720 Speaker 1: firm's resources really started drying up. Additionally, that style that 423 00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,960 Speaker 1: had gained Sullivan so many accolades just a few years 424 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 1: earlier was suddenly no longer in fashion. To add to that, 425 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:30,359 Speaker 1: Frank Lloyd Wright and Sullivan had a fight that severed 426 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:34,960 Speaker 1: their relationship. These two men had become very close. Wright 427 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:39,000 Speaker 1: was almost like a sun to Sullivan in eighteen eighty nine, 428 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:42,680 Speaker 1: when Wright had moved to the Oak Park neighborhood of Chicago, 429 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:46,800 Speaker 1: Sullivan had become the mortgage holder of the property and 430 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:50,439 Speaker 1: the house where the younger draftsman was living, and after 431 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:54,000 Speaker 1: his own home had been built, Wright had started taking 432 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:57,480 Speaker 1: commissions to design and build other houses like it in 433 00:26:57,520 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 1: the neighborhood as kind of a side hustle to get 434 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 1: some extra money coming in. Sullivan found out about it 435 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:08,280 Speaker 1: all in eighteen ninety three and fired Right. There's been 436 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:10,879 Speaker 1: a lot of speculation about the ways the two men's 437 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:14,800 Speaker 1: relationship may have shifted over the years, with Right probably 438 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:18,440 Speaker 1: out and growing his willness to just acquiesce to Sullivan's 439 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:22,800 Speaker 1: every order as his own skill and knowledge grew. We'll 440 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,920 Speaker 1: never really know what passed between them, though they did reconcile, 441 00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:30,399 Speaker 1: but not for about a decade and a half. Yeah, 442 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,719 Speaker 1: it's a you know, part of that initial deal of 443 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 1: like will I will pay for a lot of this album, 444 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:40,040 Speaker 1: I'll help you financially meant that Frank Lader could build 445 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:43,960 Speaker 1: this really impressive, beautiful house because he had some financial leverage, 446 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:47,520 Speaker 1: and that that's what got it all and Sullivan kind 447 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:51,960 Speaker 1: of saw his other projects as like bootleg. Adler and 448 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 1: Sullivan projects like basically going, Oh, I'm a draftsman with them, 449 00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:59,639 Speaker 1: I'll put this house together. Didn't go over well, and 450 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:04,159 Speaker 1: then Dankmar Adler left Architecture. He decided to take a 451 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:08,440 Speaker 1: job with Crane Elevator in eighteen ninety five, which he needed. 452 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,600 Speaker 1: They were not making money and this caused a massive 453 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:15,200 Speaker 1: rift with Sullivan, who felt betrayed that his partner would 454 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:19,399 Speaker 1: just leave the firm. Sullivan seems like he was a 455 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 1: grudge holder because even when Adler tried to come back 456 00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:25,200 Speaker 1: to the firm just a few months later, Sullivan refused 457 00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:30,680 Speaker 1: this was a really, really foolish decision. Throughout their partnership, 458 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,919 Speaker 1: Sullivan had often been the creative lead on projects, but 459 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,640 Speaker 1: Adler was sort of the glue that held everything together. 460 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 1: Whereas Louis was mercurial and wanted to focus on art, 461 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,840 Speaker 1: Dankmar was steadfast. He was really good at project managing 462 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:48,400 Speaker 1: all of their contracts from design through to completion, while 463 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:53,719 Speaker 1: also incorporating his considerable technical expertise. He was excellent at 464 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,360 Speaker 1: the administrative side of the business. He was really good 465 00:28:56,360 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 1: with people, whereas Sullivan was not. While Adler was perfectly 466 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 1: able to set up a new office for himself and 467 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:09,680 Speaker 1: continued to work steadily in architecture. Sullivan struggled. It's kind 468 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:14,360 Speaker 1: of obvious that Sullivan had some interpersonal communication issues. His 469 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:18,120 Speaker 1: sharp breaks with two different collaborators, that being Adler and 470 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,480 Speaker 1: Wright in such a short time, that's a pretty good indicator. 471 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:25,720 Speaker 1: He was known to be arrogant and stubborn, and he 472 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 1: lost out on jobs because of it. Additionally, it had 473 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:33,600 Speaker 1: largely been Adler's various contacts that had kept contracts coming 474 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,040 Speaker 1: in for them, and without that it just got harder 475 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:40,120 Speaker 1: and harder to drum up business. Sullivan did have some 476 00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:44,360 Speaker 1: notable and successful commissions in the later stage of his career, though. 477 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:48,640 Speaker 1: In eighteen ninety six, the Garantee Building, designed by Sullivan 478 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:52,200 Speaker 1: was completed in Buffalo, New York. This is a structure 479 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 1: that's pretty interesting because from a distance it looks very 480 00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 1: modern even today. It was built in a very similar 481 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,960 Speaker 1: style to the Wainwright Building. But then when you see 482 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:05,480 Speaker 1: it more closely, you see that it is deeply ornamented 483 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,480 Speaker 1: terra cotta on the outside, and it's like, as you 484 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:10,880 Speaker 1: get closer, it feels like it grew right out of 485 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:16,160 Speaker 1: the earth. The Schlessinger and Mayor Department Store began construction 486 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:20,320 Speaker 1: in eighteen ninety nine, and this project posed an interesting 487 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,440 Speaker 1: challenge for Sullivan, who had been focusing on buildings that 488 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 1: at the time were considered skyscrapers. This construction needed more 489 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:32,920 Speaker 1: emphasis on the horizontal rather than vertical spread, and as 490 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:36,640 Speaker 1: he had done with his tall office buildings, Sullivan focused 491 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:40,080 Speaker 1: on the first two floors it's visually the most important, 492 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:43,080 Speaker 1: recognizing that these would be the ones people walking by 493 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 1: would see the most. Because the building was intended for sales, 494 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:51,440 Speaker 1: it also meant that it needed to include wide windows 495 00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,800 Speaker 1: that could be used for display, a contrast again to 496 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:59,080 Speaker 1: the usually taller than wider windows that were usually included 497 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:03,720 Speaker 1: in office buildings. In addition to being wider than taller, 498 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:07,040 Speaker 1: the windows on the first two floors were decorated with 499 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:10,680 Speaker 1: details that resembled picture frames. It was all designed to 500 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:14,320 Speaker 1: really appeal to passers by and invite them in. The 501 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 1: whole building has beautiful botanical craftsmanship inside and out. Yeah, 502 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:23,680 Speaker 1: all of the motifs are so super pretty. Sullivan also 503 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:26,640 Speaker 1: got married in eighteen ninety nine to a woman from 504 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:31,440 Speaker 1: California named Margaret Davies hadabow. This marriage seems to have 505 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,960 Speaker 1: often caused historians and biographers to scratch their heads a 506 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:37,520 Speaker 1: little bit. It seems to have sort of sprung up 507 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:40,440 Speaker 1: out of nowhere, and it has grown even more confusing 508 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:43,880 Speaker 1: as people have tried to track down information about Margaret, 509 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 1: who appears to have been pretty fast and loose with 510 00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:51,040 Speaker 1: her own biographical details in her lifetime, often fibbing about 511 00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:54,680 Speaker 1: her age and name. And this marriage is weird because 512 00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:57,000 Speaker 1: it also took place at a time when Sullivan seemed 513 00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,320 Speaker 1: to be pushing more and more people away, including his 514 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:04,400 Speaker 1: older brother Albert. Louis and Margaret separated in nineteen oh 515 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:07,960 Speaker 1: six after seven years of marriage. They never reconciled, and 516 00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:12,440 Speaker 1: they were formally divorced in nineteen seventeen, likely precipitated by 517 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:16,200 Speaker 1: Margaret's desire to marry someone else. In the years between 518 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:20,800 Speaker 1: the separation and the divorce, Sullivan really hit hard times financially. 519 00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:24,560 Speaker 1: He sold most of his personal belongings at auction in 520 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,480 Speaker 1: nineteen oh nine just to have some ready cash to 521 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:31,760 Speaker 1: get by. Also, in nineteen oh nine, Sullivan lost the 522 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:35,880 Speaker 1: one employee who seemed able to tolerate his sour temper. 523 00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 1: That was George Grant Elmsley, Scotland born. Elmsley had worked 524 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:44,400 Speaker 1: for Sullivan for twenty years at that point. It's possible 525 00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:47,760 Speaker 1: that some of Sullivan's more ornamental work during that time 526 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:52,080 Speaker 1: was really George's doing, while Elmsley was hired away by 527 00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:55,920 Speaker 1: another of Louis Sullivan's former employees. This has to have 528 00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:59,440 Speaker 1: been a blow. The next several years were dotted with 529 00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:02,640 Speaker 1: a handful of projects that were much smaller in scale 530 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:06,040 Speaker 1: than the ones that Sullivan had become known for. Mostly 531 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,360 Speaker 1: he designed banks, though one of the earliest of these, 532 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:12,880 Speaker 1: the National Farmers Bank in Minnesota, has been speculated to 533 00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:16,880 Speaker 1: perhaps have even been Elsley's design, but it definitely has 534 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:20,760 Speaker 1: the spirit of Sullivan's style. These bank projects, which are 535 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:25,200 Speaker 1: quite beautiful, were nicknamed the Jewel Boxes. The work on these, 536 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 1: as well as the Schlessinger and Mayer building, is often 537 00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:32,840 Speaker 1: described as kind of the most unrestrained of Sullivan's life. 538 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,480 Speaker 1: But while his peers from the Expo were being hired 539 00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 1: to build huge project after huge project based on the 540 00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:43,719 Speaker 1: classicist style they had embraced and showcased there in Chicago, 541 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:48,800 Speaker 1: Sullivan's projects remained small. Throughout all of his financial hardships. 542 00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:53,200 Speaker 1: Sullivan had remained in his offices in the Auditorium building tower, 543 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:57,480 Speaker 1: but as the nineteen teens were on, it became impossible 544 00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:01,320 Speaker 1: to keep this space first team into a small office 545 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:04,720 Speaker 1: near the ground floor that lasted less than two years, 546 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,720 Speaker 1: though in nineteen twenty he had to close up his 547 00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:11,080 Speaker 1: offices for good. Often he worked out of a single 548 00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:14,640 Speaker 1: room where he lived sitting at his desk. He often 549 00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:17,919 Speaker 1: had to ask for financial help from his friends. Yeah, 550 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:20,320 Speaker 1: he seems like he lived in a variety of places 551 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:22,719 Speaker 1: there towards the end of his life. For sometimes it 552 00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:26,520 Speaker 1: would be a hotel. Sometimes a friend would put him up, 553 00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:29,399 Speaker 1: So he was moving around a lot. But in his 554 00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:32,440 Speaker 1: final years, Louis took on two projects. He wrote his 555 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:37,080 Speaker 1: autobiography and he wrote a book on architectural ornamentation. And 556 00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:40,040 Speaker 1: these books were actually commissioned by the American Institute of 557 00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:43,920 Speaker 1: Architects in exchange for a stipend. I feel like probably 558 00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:45,680 Speaker 1: a lot of his colleagues were like, we have to 559 00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:48,200 Speaker 1: figure out some way to help him, and also like 560 00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:50,960 Speaker 1: it would be very beneficial to have his thoughts on 561 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:55,719 Speaker 1: these matters written down. His autobiography, titled An Autobiography of 562 00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:58,600 Speaker 1: an idea, which we've quoted several times here, is written, 563 00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:01,600 Speaker 1: as we said, in the third person. It's really a 564 00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:06,160 Speaker 1: pretty delightful read, particularly the sections describing his childhood. But 565 00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:09,320 Speaker 1: he is also pretty venomous when writing about his colleagues 566 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:11,960 Speaker 1: in the architectural world in the ways that he felt 567 00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:15,319 Speaker 1: like they sold out. His treatise, titled A System of 568 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:20,799 Speaker 1: Architectural Ornament, features twenty studies which he hand drew notating 569 00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:26,279 Speaker 1: how he created original ornamental designs. But these walkthroughs of 570 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,800 Speaker 1: design ideas aren't just ornament. They really offer a guide 571 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:33,279 Speaker 1: map to creative thinking. Sullivan died at the age of 572 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:36,759 Speaker 1: sixty eight, shortly after having seen the first copies of 573 00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:40,040 Speaker 1: his book. He was laid to rest in the Graceland 574 00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:43,839 Speaker 1: Cemetery near the decorative tombs that he designed, although his 575 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:48,240 Speaker 1: own grave was unadorned. Although he could be a difficult 576 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:53,160 Speaker 1: figure even in his lifetime, Sullivan's contemporaries recognized really what 577 00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:57,040 Speaker 1: an extraordinary talent he was. His ideology was that a 578 00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:59,880 Speaker 1: structure's form should not hide its purpose, but be a 579 00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:03,640 Speaker 1: parent about it, something that wouldn't find true footing until 580 00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:07,600 Speaker 1: decades after he died. This concept of what he called 581 00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:10,600 Speaker 1: honest architecture may have been at odds with trends in 582 00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,440 Speaker 1: his later life, but it also cemented him as a 583 00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:17,400 Speaker 1: singular voice in cultural style in the US. Many of 584 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:21,600 Speaker 1: the buildings Sullivan designed, including ones that we've talked about today, 585 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:26,680 Speaker 1: are now recognized as historically significant. Today. Sullivan is grouped 586 00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:30,720 Speaker 1: in with William Laban, Jenny his partner Adler, John Root, 587 00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:35,200 Speaker 1: and Daniel Burnham under the umbrella term the Chicago School 588 00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:40,160 Speaker 1: or the First Chicago School. This grouping recognizes the innovation 589 00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:44,279 Speaker 1: that these men spearheaded in developing ways that construction and 590 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:49,000 Speaker 1: design could carry upward, creating the first skyscrapers, and setting 591 00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:53,000 Speaker 1: the foundation of architectural design in the United States. One 592 00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:56,840 Speaker 1: of my favorite passages in Sullivan's autobiography really spoke to 593 00:36:56,880 --> 00:37:00,560 Speaker 1: me as a representation of who Louis Sullivan was and 594 00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:03,880 Speaker 1: how he perceived the world. This is not a particularly 595 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:06,359 Speaker 1: important passage. It's not one that comes up a lot 596 00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:10,520 Speaker 1: when you see documentaries or read articles about him. It's 597 00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,000 Speaker 1: just a moment where he talks about the architect as 598 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:16,120 Speaker 1: a problem solver, and I really loved it. So he 599 00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:20,040 Speaker 1: wrote quote as a rule inventions which are truly solutions 600 00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:24,320 Speaker 1: are not arrived at quickly. They may seem to appear suddenly, 601 00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:28,040 Speaker 1: but the groundwork has usually been long and preparing. It 602 00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:31,280 Speaker 1: is of the essence of this philosophy that man's needs 603 00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:35,240 Speaker 1: are balanced by his powers. That as the needs increase, 604 00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:39,160 Speaker 1: the powers increase. That is the one reason why they 605 00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:45,160 Speaker 1: are herein called powers kind of love that. Yeah, if 606 00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:47,600 Speaker 1: you're dreaming it, it's because you know that some part 607 00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:51,279 Speaker 1: of it is a solvable problem. So that is the 608 00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:56,520 Speaker 1: sometimes difficult, but always kind of inspiring Louis Sullivan. Yeah, 609 00:37:56,560 --> 00:38:02,880 Speaker 1: are you gonna read the listener mail? I am. I 610 00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:06,000 Speaker 1: don't know why this made me laugh. Well, I do 611 00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:10,640 Speaker 1: no part of it, but this is from our listener Sean, 612 00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:14,759 Speaker 1: and he writes, good afternoon, Holly and Tracy. I just 613 00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:17,480 Speaker 1: finished the April fourteenth Behind the Scenes, in which Holly 614 00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:21,280 Speaker 1: mentioned someone touching tapestries in the Vatican. I cannot recall 615 00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:23,720 Speaker 1: which of you lives in Atlanta. I'm pretty sure it's Holly. 616 00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:27,279 Speaker 1: You are correct, Pretty sure you'll know what I'm referencing. 617 00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,440 Speaker 1: Years ago, when my daughter was three. She's in her 618 00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:32,680 Speaker 1: first year of college now. My ex wife and ex 619 00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:34,799 Speaker 1: in laws took my daughter and son to an art 620 00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:38,440 Speaker 1: museum in or around Atlanta, there was a globe shaped 621 00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:41,879 Speaker 1: art installation hanging from the ceiling at the exact eye 622 00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:43,719 Speaker 1: level of a three year old, and yep, before we 623 00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:46,759 Speaker 1: could stop her, to our utter mortification, my daughter went 624 00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:50,760 Speaker 1: up and slapped the globe, which started to swing. Needless 625 00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:53,080 Speaker 1: to say, we hurried out with the docins glaring the 626 00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:55,320 Speaker 1: whole way. To the best of my knowledge, no permanent 627 00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:58,240 Speaker 1: damage was done. As my own aside, I will say, 628 00:38:58,440 --> 00:38:59,719 Speaker 1: I don't know that I would fault the three year 629 00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:02,560 Speaker 1: old in situation, But the person in the Vatican was 630 00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:05,719 Speaker 1: a full grown human who just dragged his hand like 631 00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:11,880 Speaker 1: twenty feet down a beautiful tapestry. Sean continues again, I 632 00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:14,840 Speaker 1: cannot recall which of you loves Bob's Burger's a personal favorite. 633 00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:17,439 Speaker 1: That is also me. I also wanted to mention because 634 00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:20,200 Speaker 1: I don't think anybody else has that. The show's episode 635 00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:24,360 Speaker 1: fourteen of season six, called Harmoniums, featured a conflicted Tina 636 00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:27,319 Speaker 1: in a Mister Fron musical about the deadly dangers of 637 00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:31,640 Speaker 1: kissing because of mononucleosis. I was surprised neither you nor 638 00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:34,440 Speaker 1: any listener, Maile, unless I missed one, mentioned this in 639 00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:37,680 Speaker 1: reference to the September fourteenth, twenty twenty two episode on 640 00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:42,200 Speaker 1: Imagen Recton's Kiss not campaign. As the episode seems retrospectively 641 00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:46,000 Speaker 1: to be drawn straight from history. I'm surprised I didn't 642 00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:49,120 Speaker 1: think of that either, because I'm pretty obsessive about Bob's Burgers. 643 00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:53,120 Speaker 1: Didn't even come to me. That is a very funny episode, though, 644 00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:57,280 Speaker 1: if anybody would like an entree into Bob's Burger's. Anyway, 645 00:39:57,320 --> 00:39:59,279 Speaker 1: your podcast is when I make sure to keep up 646 00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:01,880 Speaker 1: with regularly. Though I despair of ever listening to all 647 00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:04,239 Speaker 1: the bad catalog, You're always a joy to listen to, 648 00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:07,080 Speaker 1: fair and honest and dense with information, a future I adore. 649 00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:09,560 Speaker 1: Thank you for all your hard work. Then there are 650 00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:12,879 Speaker 1: pet pictures, Chip under the Christmas tree, Belle staring at 651 00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:16,360 Speaker 1: the camera, and Max on our twin granddaughter's pillow. Not 652 00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:20,359 Speaker 1: pictured are the turtles and the bees. These are very 653 00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:23,239 Speaker 1: very cute little fluffs that look like they were made 654 00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:28,640 Speaker 1: in a factory. They're so cute, adorable, adorable. I will say, 655 00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:33,120 Speaker 1: while we admire and respect the commitment for people who 656 00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:35,960 Speaker 1: do choose to listen to our whole entire back catalog, 657 00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:41,080 Speaker 1: it is not a requirement. No, I would be daunted. 658 00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:46,200 Speaker 1: I would say not even an encouragement because if you 659 00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:49,360 Speaker 1: go back to the very beginning ones, like, they're a 660 00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:52,440 Speaker 1: totally different style and scope from what we are now. 661 00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:58,320 Speaker 1: A lot of folks on there who are wonderful colleagues 662 00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:00,600 Speaker 1: who we loved and enjoyed working with, but like they 663 00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:03,280 Speaker 1: haven't been involved in the show in years. So especially 664 00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:06,240 Speaker 1: when people start with like episode one as the first 665 00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:09,880 Speaker 1: thing they listen to, I'm like, it's a whole difference. 666 00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:12,759 Speaker 1: It's not can give you idea of what you're about 667 00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:15,640 Speaker 1: to get? Yeah, yeah, yeah, But I mean if you 668 00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:17,560 Speaker 1: just want to go ahead, if you want to go 669 00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:21,040 Speaker 1: for it, but yet feel no pressure to do so 670 00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:24,319 Speaker 1: at all. If you would like to write to us, 671 00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:26,960 Speaker 1: no pressure there either, But it's super easy to do. 672 00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:30,080 Speaker 1: You can do that at History Podcast at iHeartRadio dot com. 673 00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:32,520 Speaker 1: You can also find us on social media as Missed 674 00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:35,480 Speaker 1: in History, and if you haven't subscribed, you can do 675 00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:37,840 Speaker 1: that on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you listen to 676 00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:45,840 Speaker 1: your favorite shows. Stuff you Missed in History Class is 677 00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:50,200 Speaker 1: a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit 678 00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:53,680 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to 679 00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:54,600 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.