1 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:12,240 Speaker 1: Kent Alexander was the US Attorney for the Northern District 2 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 1: of Georgia. He has been the general counsel for Emory University. 3 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:21,759 Speaker 1: He was a partner with King and Spalden. He also 4 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 1: co authored a book called The Suspect, an Olympic Park Bombing, 5 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:33,839 Speaker 1: the FBI, the Media, and Richard Jewell, The Man in 6 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 1: the Middle, and that was later made into a Clint 7 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 1: Eastwood movie called Richard Jewell. Now Ken Alexander and I 8 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 1: we know each other. He was in charge of a 9 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:50,559 Speaker 1: federal task force that I was involved in called Operation 10 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:53,600 Speaker 1: Weed and Seed, and I just have to tell y'all 11 00:00:54,000 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 1: he is the most ethical, kind, brilliant and solidly I 12 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 1: think I have ever worked with and had the honor 13 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:10,200 Speaker 1: of knowing. So y'all please help me welcome Kent Alexander 14 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:11,319 Speaker 1: to Zone seven. 15 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 2: Thank you, Cheryl, you're too kind. 16 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 1: Well, I just want to start on a personal note too, 17 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:19,639 Speaker 1: if I can. I was so sorry to hear about 18 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 1: you losing your dad and you know some of the 19 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:27,680 Speaker 1: things that I was reading, Oh, Miles Alexander, I mean 20 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 1: the accolades were just overwhelming. I mean he was not 21 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:37,039 Speaker 1: only you know, a legal genius, he was just a 22 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:37,959 Speaker 1: good man. 23 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 2: Oh, thanks so much, Cheryl. He was awesome, just very 24 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 2: special and amazing life. 25 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:46,959 Speaker 1: Lived, a life well lived. And you know it makes me, 26 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 1: you know, just want to take a second too, because 27 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: all those people that were saying such wonderful things. I 28 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 1: don't know that I've ever said anything wonderful to you, 29 00:01:56,240 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 1: but I'm going to tell you tonight, without question, my 30 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 1: time with you in Operation Whedon Seed is one of 31 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 1: the highlights of my career and it was because of you. 32 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:08,960 Speaker 1: So thank you for that. 33 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 2: Well, thank you, Cheryl. What you did for kids and 34 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 2: neighborhoods in Whedon's theaters extraordinary too. You and my dad 35 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:19,359 Speaker 2: follmed the same category. That's how I praise well. 36 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:24,519 Speaker 1: I appreciate that. So Atlanta wins the Olympic Games, honey. 37 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 1: And we trained and we prepared, we were ready. We 38 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 1: had more security than any Olympics ever in. 39 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:34,639 Speaker 2: History, That's true. 40 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:38,839 Speaker 1: And then you got the call. Now, where were you 41 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:43,079 Speaker 1: and how did you get called about the Olympic Park 42 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 1: bombing On July twenty seventh, nineteen ninety six. 43 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 2: I was at home. I was actually sleeping. I had 44 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 2: spent the day talking with a lot of people, including 45 00:02:54,800 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 2: the head of security for a Cove, which the group 46 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 2: that play in the games, and I had a little 47 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:05,520 Speaker 2: bit of a cough, so I thought, I'll go home 48 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:07,520 Speaker 2: and get to sleep early, and I'm so glad I did. 49 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 2: When I got the call, it was not from law enforcement, 50 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:13,640 Speaker 2: it wasn't from a just department command center or the FBI. 51 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:16,119 Speaker 2: Is from a buddy of mine named Jim Green, who 52 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:20,360 Speaker 2: happened to be up watching CNN or some network and 53 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:23,920 Speaker 2: saw everything live. So he was the first call. And 54 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 2: I we'd done enough training. I knew exactly what to do. 55 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:31,960 Speaker 2: Just get up, take a shower, sings clothes, and drive 56 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:34,680 Speaker 2: straight down to the FBI headquarters. 57 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 1: That's right. I mean everybody knew what they were supposed 58 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:41,320 Speaker 1: to do, and I think for the most part, it 59 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 1: was pretty amazing the response. I mean, we had one 60 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 1: hundred and eleven victims, and I know from us the 61 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 1: crisis response team, we had one hundred and fourteen people 62 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 1: on site within forty five minutes, so everybody knew what 63 00:03:56,120 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 1: to do. You're absolutely right now your initial thought. I mean, 64 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: we have this crime, we have this terrorist event, there's 65 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: a perpetrator out there, there's a security guard that saw 66 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 1: the bag started moving people away, you know, where the 67 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 1: games going to go on. Were there other terrorist events 68 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 1: that were fixing to happen. How do we protect all 69 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:20,279 Speaker 1: these athletes and visitors. I mean your mind must have 70 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 1: been reeling. 71 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 2: Well like all of our minds. Mine was reeling. All 72 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:29,280 Speaker 2: those questions were absolutely out there. We didn't know if 73 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 2: the bomber is going to strike again, We didn't know 74 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 2: where the bomber was from, if there was more than one, 75 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:40,360 Speaker 2: if we were about to have a series of catastrophes. 76 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 2: So and then there was the question, as you said, 77 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 2: should the games even go on, which was a decision 78 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 2: that went to the highest levels conversation with the president. 79 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 1: And I know for us in the you know, central 80 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 1: area in the command center, it was an unusual event 81 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 1: to watch APD, Atlanta Police Department, Fulton County, the GBI. 82 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 1: I mean, everybody's there and then all of a sudden, 83 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 1: the FBI swings in and it's a different day. I mean, 84 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:15,480 Speaker 1: this was like nothing I had ever seen. And one 85 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 1: of the first things that struck me was all the witnesses. 86 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 1: They wanted their shoes, and I remember there were people 87 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:25,040 Speaker 1: really upset by that, like they did not want to 88 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 1: give their shoes up. And that's something you didn't even 89 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 1: know was going to happen. There was no way to 90 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 1: prepare for it. But it was something that really upset people. 91 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, it sure did. And of course one reason to 92 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 2: take their shoes. The main reason was people had shrapnel 93 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 2: in them, and so you want to check all shoes 94 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 2: for shrapnel. And it was just it was a crime scene. 95 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:52,279 Speaker 2: The entire entirety of Centennial Park and its surroundings was 96 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:53,480 Speaker 2: one large crime scene. 97 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 1: One thing that sticks in my mind is law enforcement 98 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 1: own their hands and knees collect in every just scrap 99 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:10,039 Speaker 1: piece of metal, not just nails that were intact, anything 100 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:13,920 Speaker 1: they could find because they were going to rebuild that bomb. 101 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 2: That's exactly right. There were law enforcement agents from all 102 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:23,919 Speaker 2: branches on their knees, including SWAT members in full SWAT gear, 103 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:27,840 Speaker 2: down on their knees. The area had been marked off 104 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:32,480 Speaker 2: with concentric circles expanding from this place where the blast happened, 105 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 2: where the bomb was, so they could mark every area 106 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 2: into quadrants among those concentric circles, so they could chronicle 107 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 2: where every piece of scrapnel, every possible piece of the bomb, 108 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 2: every nail was, so that they could figure out even 109 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 2: the power of the buck blast and what had happened 110 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 2: is they reconstructed it later on. It was the site 111 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 2: to behold. 112 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 1: It was, and to your point, it's one of the 113 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 1: largest crime scenes I've ever walked through, been a part of. 114 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: And it's the most number of victims, without question, that 115 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:08,359 Speaker 1: were still on scene. 116 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was you. I was, as I said, home sleeping, 117 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 2: but certainly was able to reconstruct the whole scene from 118 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 2: the hundreds and hundreds of interviews. But there were, as 119 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 2: you said, there are all the victims who were still there, 120 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 2: many on the ground, many or most bleeding. You had 121 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 2: ambulances rushing in, you had fire trucks rushing in, police 122 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 2: rushing in. And I remember talking with Bernie Keenan, who 123 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:38,560 Speaker 2: was the deputy director of the GBI at that point. 124 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 2: He talked about driving in from the outskirts of Atlanta 125 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 2: and he was looking there was still smoke above the 126 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 2: Centennial Park and there were all the different colored lights 127 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 2: flashing into smoke, and he likened it to the Aurorus Borealis. 128 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 2: He said he'd never seen anything like that ever at 129 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 2: a crime scene. 130 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:01,239 Speaker 1: I will tell you it was. There were so many things. 131 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 1: I don't even know if I could put into words, 132 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 1: because at some point it was so loud, like all 133 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 1: the emergency vehicles you're talking about, people you know, saying 134 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 1: go here, do this, do that, And then there were 135 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 1: other times it was almost eerily quiet. It was a 136 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 1: strange event. And you know, of course we lost Alice Hawthorne, 137 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 1: she was killed in the blast, and her daughter, Fallon 138 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 1: was extremely injured and had to have surgery, and I 139 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:32,440 Speaker 1: went to the hospital to be with Fallon for part 140 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:36,840 Speaker 1: of the night the next night after surgery, you know, 141 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 1: And there's just so much that was happening, so fast, 142 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:44,840 Speaker 1: and so much unknown, and like you're saying, we didn't 143 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:46,840 Speaker 1: know if there was going to be another attack, We 144 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:50,080 Speaker 1: didn't know how many people. All we knew is a 145 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 1: nine to one one call eleven words, and twenty minutes 146 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:57,119 Speaker 1: later we have this event exactly. 147 00:08:57,400 --> 00:08:59,559 Speaker 2: And of course there's the Turkish journalist who died of 148 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 2: a hearted running to film the scene. Absolutely really two deaths. 149 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:09,320 Speaker 1: Agreed, yes, agreed, because it would not have happened. He 150 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: would still be alive that day if not for that bomb. 151 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 1: I have no doubt about that. You're absolutely right. Let's 152 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 1: talk about the media. How quickly do you think the 153 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 1: media rushed a judgment very. 154 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 2: Yeah. It was in a word, yes, everybody who's trying 155 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 2: to figure out who the bomber was. And as you know, 156 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:36,840 Speaker 2: for the first couple of days, there are lots of 157 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 2: suspects out there and the media didn't have many names 158 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 2: to go on. But as soon as Richard Jule's name surfaced, 159 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 2: you know, there was a brush judgment. But to my mind, 160 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:56,320 Speaker 2: both with the media and with many in law enforcement, 161 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 2: so there's there's a lot a lot of assuming going on. 162 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 1: Well, you know, I'm Southern, obviously, and I have always 163 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 1: told people, if Hollywood wants an idiot, they make them Southern, 164 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 1: and if they want a real idiot, they make them 165 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 1: a Southern police officer. So he was right for the 166 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 1: picking for that type of vulture because they just insulted him. 167 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:26,960 Speaker 1: They called him names. I remember one newspaper they called 168 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:30,920 Speaker 1: him the Bubba bomber. You're just hitting all cylinders, you know, 169 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:33,719 Speaker 1: Let's talk about where he's from, let's talk about how 170 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 1: he looks, let's talk about what he did for a living. 171 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: And you know, people ran with it, and then unfortunately, 172 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:45,560 Speaker 1: I think when the profiling started, they were making some 173 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 1: square pegs fit in those round holes. 174 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, you're exactly right. And of course there was an 175 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:55,640 Speaker 2: actual profile too, so I profiling people did on their 176 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 2: own in the media and in the public thinking about 177 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 2: this white Southern Scarity guard and former cap. There was 178 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 2: a profile out of Quantico, Virginia FBI Behavioral Science Units 179 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 2: it was called at the time, which was later derisively 180 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:20,440 Speaker 2: referred to by some as a BS unit because they 181 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:22,960 Speaker 2: got that one wrong. But there was a whole profile 182 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 2: explaining why Richard Jewel was very likely the bomber. 183 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 1: I remember part of it when they talked about tupperware 184 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 1: and I'm like, seriously, I mean, I've got some, every 185 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 1: one of my sisters has some, everybody I know's got some. 186 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:41,840 Speaker 1: How can that be a major factor in what they're 187 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 1: printing for people to run with? And then, you know, 188 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:49,320 Speaker 1: I think the way he carried himself, the way his 189 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 1: mama tried to speak out sometimes did not help them, right. 190 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:59,440 Speaker 2: I think sometimes things that Richard Jewel said and his 191 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 2: late mother Bobby said, set into the narrative. So did 192 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 2: the search when they searched his apartment, and he had 193 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 2: a lot of guns because he was in the law 194 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 2: enforcement guy and he liked guns. He liked to hunt, 195 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 2: but the fact that there were a lot of guns 196 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 2: fed into the narrative even more. 197 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 1: Here's one thing I want to point out. You did 198 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 1: one of the most stand up things I have ever 199 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 1: heard of in my life. I don't know that it 200 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 1: had ever been done before. But you wrote a letter. 201 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 1: And not only did you write it and sign it, 202 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 1: you hand delivered it. And that's why when I say 203 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:45,079 Speaker 1: to people, you're one of the most ethical and kind people. 204 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:48,840 Speaker 1: That proves it right there. Tell us a little bit 205 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 1: about how the letter came about. 206 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 2: The letter came about because we had been investigating, we 207 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 2: being law enforcement, the bombing for quite some time, and 208 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 2: Richard Jeul in particular, hundreds and hundreds of FBI three 209 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:04,319 Speaker 2: oh two's, that's what the reports are called. Three o 210 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 2: two's about Richard Jewele, the team that I put together 211 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 2: at the US Attorney's office, which included people who would 212 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:15,600 Speaker 2: later go on to become US attorneys. Sally Yates and 213 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:18,960 Speaker 2: she was later Deputy Attorney General. Dave Namius became a 214 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 2: US attorney as well. We all read through every FBI 215 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:27,320 Speaker 2: three h two, every report. The more we read, the 216 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:30,080 Speaker 2: more the stacks that we put in. Did he do it? 217 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 2: Didn't he do it? Started becoming much more pronounced in 218 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:40,200 Speaker 2: the didn't do it stack because we were reading just 219 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:44,640 Speaker 2: taking a look at at it objectively and not looking 220 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 2: to prove his guilt, but to see what happened. So 221 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 2: we had decided in our minds we just didn't think 222 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 2: he did it. So the letter came about because I 223 00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 2: met with the head of the FBI in the Atlanta office, 224 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:04,559 Speaker 2: Would Johnson, who's a completely stand up guy, and reviewed 225 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 2: everything and I said, what do you need for us 226 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 2: to say he didn't do this? Figure out whether he 227 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 2: did it or not, and he said, we need to 228 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 2: interview Richard Jewel. So the letter came about after Jack 229 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 2: Martin Jeuwles defense attorney, and I spoke and Richard was 230 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 2: represented by other people too, including Watson, Bryan and Lynn Wood, 231 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 2: but Jack was the criminal defense attorney, and we just 232 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 2: had a handshake deal followed up by a letter. But 233 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 2: it was mainly a handshake deal that if Richard came 234 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:38,120 Speaker 2: in and interviewed and the FBI and GBI could interview 235 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 2: him with one attorney from our office, a guy John 236 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 2: Davis was on my staff sitting in that we would 237 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 2: then take three weeks. I think it was to follow 238 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:53,280 Speaker 2: up on that interview and if there wasn't evidence strong 239 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 2: evidence that he was the guy who was the bomber, 240 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 2: then I said I would I'd make that announcement. So 241 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 2: the interview happened, and in fact, many people have probably 242 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 2: seen the movie. The movie's more or less like the interview, 243 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 2: but they had to do with the movie version, so 244 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 2: it was much shorter in the movie. It was several 245 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 2: hours in real life. Then all the investigation started anew 246 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 2: based on any leads they took from Richard Jewel, and 247 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 2: after three weeks, the FBI and our office, the US 248 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 2: Attorney's office, and really Woody and I and everyone around 249 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 2: us met We reviewed everything, and then Woody Johnson at 250 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 2: the FBI said, well, yeah, a deal is a deal. 251 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 2: This is what you said you do, and you've done it, 252 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 2: and we do not have strong evidence that he did it. 253 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 2: So some people at the FBIS and elsewhere still thought 254 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 2: he did it, but there was an evidence even to 255 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 2: go bring in front of the grand jury. So that's 256 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 2: when I just decided the best way to clear him 257 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 2: was to write a letter, and it was called a 258 00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 2: non target letter, So I know, you know this your 259 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:04,600 Speaker 2: listeners might not. In federal investigations, you can be a target, 260 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 2: which means there's a lot of evidence against you, and 261 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 2: you can probably be indicted maybe the subject to the investigation, 262 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 2: which means, well, you know it's maybe maybe not who knows, 263 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 2: or a witness, and what you want to do is 264 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:19,600 Speaker 2: as a witness if you're a peuted defendant, because you 265 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:21,880 Speaker 2: know that means you're never going to get indicted. So 266 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 2: the letter I wrote, it's called a non target letter, 267 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 2: So I said he wasn't a target, and then I said, 268 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 2: it's a very short letter. I said, and I hope 269 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 2: you will cooperate as a witness. So it's a way 270 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 2: to straddle the line between saying you're not a target 271 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 2: and also saying sort of saying you're a witness. And 272 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 2: I knew that when it went out, even though a 273 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 2: couple of defense turns were upset by the letter because 274 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 2: it wasn't it didn't say you're cleared, you didn't do it. 275 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 2: I knew that the media would with the same fervors 276 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:55,560 Speaker 2: that many had used to say Richard Jewel was likely 277 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 2: the bomber would turn around and say this is a 278 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 2: clearance letter. And so that's what they did. I never 279 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 2: did a news conference after that. I did a news release, 280 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:07,240 Speaker 2: but my goal was just to turn straight from that 281 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 2: to pivot to the investigation to find the real bomber. 282 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 2: And if I had gone on all these news stations, 283 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:15,679 Speaker 2: national news, everybody wanted to interview, it would have been 284 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 2: a distraction as opposed to being able to turn to 285 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 2: make sure this bomber was found and didn't bomb again. 286 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:26,160 Speaker 2: So that's the background in a long nutshell. 287 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:30,440 Speaker 1: When did you first hear the name Eric Robert Rudolph. 288 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 2: I heard the name after the Birmingham bombing, so it 289 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 2: would have been nineteen ninety eight. So there had been 290 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 2: three bombings. There was the Olympic bombing, there was the 291 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 2: other Side lounge bombing, which this mixed largely lesbian nightclub, 292 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:53,119 Speaker 2: and there's the Sandy Springs abortion clinic bombing, family planning 293 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 2: center bombing. So those had happened while I was US attorney. 294 00:17:56,920 --> 00:18:01,879 Speaker 2: I left the office in late fall of nineteen ninety seven, 295 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 2: but I was keeping very close tabs on the investigation 296 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 2: because that had been my life since the Olympics, really 297 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:11,359 Speaker 2: trying to find this bomber. So the first time I 298 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:17,679 Speaker 2: heard the news was probably it was late January of 299 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:22,040 Speaker 2: ninety eight, right after Eric Rudolph bombed another clinic, and 300 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:26,199 Speaker 2: this one in Birmingham. As you know, there are witnesses 301 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 2: and his name ended up surfacing. So I was General 302 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:35,240 Speaker 2: Counsel Emory University at that point, but still sort of 303 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 2: trying to be an arm chair prosecutor. Not that I 304 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 2: had any role in the case, but I called people 305 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 2: from the office to keep up with it, and that's 306 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:46,280 Speaker 2: when I heard the name, and it became pretty clear 307 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 2: very early on that he was the guy. And at 308 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:52,399 Speaker 2: that point Dave Namius, who had been the junior member 309 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:54,920 Speaker 2: of the team at the Olympics on the Olympic bombing, 310 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:59,360 Speaker 2: the prosecution team was US attorney. Sally Yates, who had 311 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:04,120 Speaker 2: been member of the prosecution team, was the first assistant 312 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 2: US attorney, so the second in charge. So the two 313 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 2: of them had been with it the entire time, and 314 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 2: it was nice talking with them just to keep up 315 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:14,399 Speaker 2: with what was going. 316 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:16,280 Speaker 1: On, and they knew it from ground level. 317 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 2: Well, they remembered, and also they had all the evidents. 318 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 2: So Eric Rudolf's name never surfaced until the Birmingham bombing 319 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:28,960 Speaker 2: of the hundreds. And I really mean hundreds of suffects 320 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 2: who are out there who came and went. His name 321 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 2: wasn't on any list. In fact, in the book that 322 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:38,840 Speaker 2: Kevin Saltwin and I wrote, we noted that a lot 323 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:41,639 Speaker 2: of a lot of agents were scrambling to take a 324 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:45,120 Speaker 2: look at their logs, their investigated logs, to make sure 325 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:47,680 Speaker 2: they didn't have that lead assigned to them to investigate 326 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 2: Eric Rudolf, because that would be not just an egg, 327 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,439 Speaker 2: but the entire omelet on your face. And it turns 328 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 2: out nobody had his name because he had lived completely 329 00:19:57,040 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 2: off the grid. So getting back to your point on 330 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 2: Dave Sally, the two of them knew all the evidence. 331 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:07,880 Speaker 2: So by the time this fourth bombing happened and they 332 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:12,200 Speaker 2: got the shrapnel and other things from the bombing, there's 333 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:17,280 Speaker 2: they had a pretty good idea of that this was 334 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:18,120 Speaker 2: the same guy. 335 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 1: Same guy, right, And you know the first the Olympic bombing, 336 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 1: that was the largest pipe bomb in North America, and 337 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:32,880 Speaker 1: it had some elements to it that I think we 338 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 1: were lucky because he really didn't know what he was 339 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:40,080 Speaker 1: doing because only one of them went off, not all 340 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:41,400 Speaker 1: three pips. 341 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 2: Well we'll never know what really went off and what 342 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 2: didn't but you're right, we were lucky. But in part 343 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 2: the luck happened because of the way the backpack had 344 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:57,679 Speaker 2: been tipped over. Ye backpack, if you remember, had a 345 00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 2: directional plate, correct, a metal plate that went in the 346 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:05,200 Speaker 2: back and at one part of the backpack, and the 347 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 2: whole bomb would basically explode against the directional plate, and 348 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 2: the idea was that the shrapnel would then spray directly 349 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:17,119 Speaker 2: into the crowd. But what happened is Richard Jewel actually 350 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 2: bothered some kids who were drinking and carrying on, and 351 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:23,840 Speaker 2: he kicked them out. And before they left, they went 352 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:27,119 Speaker 2: and they kicked this bag, the alice packed the military 353 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:29,440 Speaker 2: pack of the bomb. They tried to lift it to 354 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:31,200 Speaker 2: see if they have maybe had beer they could take 355 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 2: with them, and then they kicked it and it tipped over, 356 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 2: so the directional plate was actually on its back, facing 357 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:42,920 Speaker 2: straight up skyward. Had it stayed where it was originally 358 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 2: a positioned, the blast would have gone straight into the crowd. 359 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:49,120 Speaker 2: And of course that night there were fifty thousand people 360 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:51,719 Speaker 2: in that park, so you can only imagine how many 361 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:54,720 Speaker 2: people would have died. So there was a lot of luck. 362 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:57,000 Speaker 1: That night, a lot of luck. And I will take 363 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:03,359 Speaker 1: that every time. Really, instead of imploding and exploding, it 364 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 1: became the largest roaming candle. 365 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:10,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was this big arc that went skyward but 366 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 2: also to the side, which is why Alice Hawthorne, who 367 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 2: you mentioned was was killed by because she was hit 368 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:17,600 Speaker 2: by shrap and I was like a machine gun and 369 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:21,359 Speaker 2: fired at her. But that same machine gun that was 370 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 2: a lower part of that arc, would have gone full 371 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 2: throttle into the entire crowd, So there would have been 372 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:30,320 Speaker 2: a lot of Alice Hawthorne's. 373 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:34,480 Speaker 1: That's right, no question. When did you decide to write 374 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:35,000 Speaker 1: the book. 375 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,240 Speaker 2: I had it in my mind after I left the 376 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:41,960 Speaker 2: US Attorney's office that sometime when I was really old, 377 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 2: even older than I am now, that I would write 378 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:47,560 Speaker 2: a book because I thought there was it was such 379 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 2: an extraordinary time, and there were things that I knew 380 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 2: that I knew other people didn't know. But I also 381 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:55,199 Speaker 2: knew that there was so much that went on that 382 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:59,159 Speaker 2: I had I hadn't a clue about. So I decided 383 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 2: after I left the office late nineteen ninety seven, at 384 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:06,359 Speaker 2: some point down the road, i'd write a book. The 385 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:09,439 Speaker 2: point where I really decided that I was going to 386 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:13,200 Speaker 2: move forward on it was when a federal judge named 387 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:15,680 Speaker 2: Owen Forrester passed away and I went to his funeral. 388 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,400 Speaker 2: Owen Forrester or Judge Forrester, was the judge who heard 389 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 2: some of Richard Jules's case and when they were trying 390 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 2: to get the AJC to the Atlanta Drunk Constitution to 391 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:29,399 Speaker 2: turn information over and other things, and I appeared in 392 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,040 Speaker 2: front of him on that case, in a lot of others. 393 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:33,920 Speaker 2: But when I went to his funeral, I looked around 394 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,120 Speaker 2: and some of the players from the bombing were there. 395 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 2: But I also realized I was fairly young as a 396 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 2: US attorney, and a lot of the people like Judge 397 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 2: Forrester were not as young and working to be around forever. 398 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 2: So that's the point where I decided, I think it's 399 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 2: time to write this book. So it was a lot 400 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 2: earlier than I intended, but I was, but it was something. 401 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,560 Speaker 2: It was like it was a dream I had that 402 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:01,040 Speaker 2: I decided to try to realize earlier and planned. 403 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:04,439 Speaker 1: And you interviewed a ton of people. I mean, you 404 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,919 Speaker 1: laid it out beautifully, and you know, it's almost like 405 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:10,960 Speaker 1: putting the case together. I mean the way it reads, 406 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:13,919 Speaker 1: it's like you're telling us something and then you're backing 407 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:15,960 Speaker 1: it up, and you're telling us something and you're backing 408 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:19,600 Speaker 1: it up. So it was not only easy to follow, 409 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 1: but it was also clear as a beil what occurred 410 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:26,880 Speaker 1: at every stage of this whole thing. 411 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:33,080 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, we tried to tell a story in a 412 00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:35,960 Speaker 2: way people could relate to, and it's written as a 413 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,639 Speaker 2: narrative nonfiction book it's called so it's written like a novel. 414 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,639 Speaker 2: The whole thing's character driven. Of course, Richard Jule's the 415 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:46,920 Speaker 2: main character. That there's this wild AJAC reporter, journalists, there's 416 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:49,639 Speaker 2: the FBI and who made the case that wasn't and 417 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 2: there was Eric Rudolph. So we've got these intertwined characters. 418 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 2: As you know, we talked about their lives, but lay 419 00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 2: out the evidence as told through their lives, so it's 420 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:04,199 Speaker 2: not like an encyclopedia account. Instead, it's more like a 421 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:06,880 Speaker 2: movie that it turned into. So we tried to make 422 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 2: it both both educational and historical, but a fun read. 423 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 2: So that was the goal. 424 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:21,399 Speaker 1: Did you find when you really got into the whole 425 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:29,440 Speaker 1: Eric Rudolph, his lifestyle, his background, the bombings, the places 426 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:33,480 Speaker 1: that he selected, were you pretty clear about a motive 427 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 1: before it was put out there? Or were you kind 428 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 1: of surprised about his motive? 429 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:44,159 Speaker 2: Pretty clear early on that hit what he claimed was 430 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 2: his motive, which was hated abortions and all of that 431 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,880 Speaker 2: was a beard that wasn't really what it was after 432 00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 2: And what was clear to me by the second bombing, 433 00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,920 Speaker 2: when he had sucker bombs for the second and third 434 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:04,200 Speaker 2: bombing at the Sandy Springs clinic and at the other 435 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:07,120 Speaker 2: side lounge, and by way, when I say sucker bombs, 436 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:11,199 Speaker 2: they're also called secondary devices. A bomb went off, and 437 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 2: then as you know, there was a time that lagged 438 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,639 Speaker 2: and all the law enforcement came in, and then the 439 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 2: second bomb went off where the bomber knew there would 440 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 2: be law enforcements. So I figured that the guy hated 441 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:27,680 Speaker 2: the government, and it turns out he did. So it 442 00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,159 Speaker 2: became more nuanced what he was doing and why he 443 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:34,439 Speaker 2: was doing things, but through his own writings, because not 444 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:39,960 Speaker 2: only were there two books written on him biographies of 445 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 2: him and the bombing, but afterwards he wrote his autobiography, 446 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 2: so we had three accounts, really thorough accounts. So by 447 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,760 Speaker 2: the end I had an even better idea. As I 448 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,479 Speaker 2: say that the nuances of it, but at art at 449 00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:56,400 Speaker 2: the root, he doesn't trust the government. He hates the government, 450 00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:01,080 Speaker 2: and he is he wanted this kind of an anarchist. 451 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:05,560 Speaker 2: He just thought by bombing the Olympics that everybody would 452 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,119 Speaker 2: start joining in and then suddenly there would just be 453 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:10,879 Speaker 2: mass protests and the government would be undermined. 454 00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:13,560 Speaker 1: And that's what the nine one one call is about. 455 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:17,199 Speaker 1: He thought he gave plenty of time for all the 456 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 1: first responders to get there and be harmed. 457 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:22,879 Speaker 2: Exactly so the nine one one calls. He called and said, 458 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 2: there's a bomb in Centennial Park, and you have twenty minutes, 459 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 2: I think he said. So. His assumption was that based 460 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 2: on all the planning that you and I and everyone did, 461 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:38,760 Speaker 2: the word would have had immediately and everyone would evacuate, 462 00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,879 Speaker 2: law enforcement would come in and look. But as it 463 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 2: turns out, as you know, there was a screw up 464 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,160 Speaker 2: with the nine to one one system. The message did 465 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,760 Speaker 2: not get to the park, so the bomb goes off 466 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 2: with all the civilians. I don't know that Eric Ruff 467 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:59,560 Speaker 2: didn't plan to kill civilians too. I think he would 468 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:04,000 Speaker 2: probably just view that as necessary casualties side casualties. But 469 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:08,479 Speaker 2: he clearly wanted law enforcement on the spot, on the scene, 470 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,240 Speaker 2: and then he tried three more times, especially. 471 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:14,440 Speaker 1: When he got to Birmingham. He changed it up because 472 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:16,399 Speaker 1: he used the remote control in Birmingham. 473 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:18,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, because he was kind of the bomber who couldn't 474 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:21,480 Speaker 2: bomb straight. He kept trying to kill law enforcement and 475 00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:26,879 Speaker 2: he wasn't succeeding. He injured law enforcement at the Sandy 476 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:31,480 Speaker 2: Springs clinic, but when it came to the Birmingham bombing, 477 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 2: he literally had a remote control, so he had planted 478 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:39,760 Speaker 2: the device right outside the doorway. Off duty police officer 479 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 2: went over bent over a bush, this fake bush t 480 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:48,080 Speaker 2: kind of thing. He got at a store to poke 481 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:50,680 Speaker 2: at it to see what it was, and then Eric 482 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 2: Rudolph was looking with binoculars from a distance, pressed the 483 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:58,720 Speaker 2: button and just blew M to smithereens. It was just horrible. 484 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,400 Speaker 1: You mentioned luck. You know there was a car, a 485 00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:09,320 Speaker 1: squad car parked near the secondary bomb that took the 486 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 1: majority of those nails. I mean that would have killed 487 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:17,840 Speaker 1: I don't know how many first responders, certainly severely injuring. 488 00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 1: Who knows how many. 489 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:25,640 Speaker 2: In fact, yeah, there was an FBI agent who was 490 00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 2: on the phone with somebody in my office in the 491 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:32,840 Speaker 2: US Attorney's office just before that bomb went off, and 492 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:36,239 Speaker 2: the bomb went off, and the phone goes dead. And 493 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 2: it turns out the agent was standing right on the 494 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,640 Speaker 2: other side of the car with the bomb in between. 495 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:48,080 Speaker 2: The car was in between the bomb and him. The 496 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:52,120 Speaker 2: car lifted off the ground, we found out later, and 497 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 2: the agent got hurt and lost hearing and I think 498 00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:01,000 Speaker 2: permanently in one air here, but he was yeah, he 499 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:03,160 Speaker 2: would have been dead, oh yeah. 500 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:06,440 Speaker 1: And I know by the time our team got there again, 501 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:09,479 Speaker 1: it was a scene almost like out of some movie. 502 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,440 Speaker 1: I mean it was it was like a war zone again, 503 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:16,560 Speaker 1: nothing like we had ever seen. And of course that 504 00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:20,080 Speaker 1: was a different avenue. And I remember one young woman 505 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:23,719 Speaker 1: when I got to her, she said cover my face. 506 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 1: And I instinctively I was like, honey, you're fine. You're 507 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:29,800 Speaker 1: gonna be okay. I mean, she had some injuries, but 508 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:33,240 Speaker 1: it wasn't going to kill her. And she was like, no, no, 509 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:35,560 Speaker 1: cover my face. And I said, I am right here. 510 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:38,400 Speaker 1: You are going to be fine. They're about to put you, 511 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:40,920 Speaker 1: you know, in the amulets and they're going to take 512 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 1: care of you. She grabbed my shirt, pulled me to 513 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:50,040 Speaker 1: her and said cover my face. That was the first 514 00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 1: time kent that it dawned on me, some of these 515 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 1: victims are being outed because the media is here. It 516 00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:00,440 Speaker 1: had not crossed my mind before. And then I was like, 517 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,440 Speaker 1: oh girl, I got you, okay, so we're gonna cover 518 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:06,320 Speaker 1: you up because you know, she was from a smaller 519 00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:08,600 Speaker 1: town and she had a job that wasn't going to 520 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 1: understand why she was in Atlanta and where she was at. 521 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:13,760 Speaker 1: So you know, again I. 522 00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:16,280 Speaker 2: Tell you there was there's a teachers conference in town. 523 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:19,000 Speaker 2: That's right. There's a lot of the teachers were there, 524 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:22,160 Speaker 2: and that's right. They were really worrying. It was another 525 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:25,720 Speaker 2: it was another era, another time when it people have 526 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:27,840 Speaker 2: just had to go undercover. 527 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:32,360 Speaker 1: That's right, that's right out themselves. And that was again 528 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:36,320 Speaker 1: a learning experience for me. And I tell every you know, 529 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,440 Speaker 1: rookie and every young detective I can find, you're going 530 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:42,960 Speaker 1: to be taught some great lessons that you never thought coming. 531 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:45,720 Speaker 1: I mean, I was there thinking, oh, I'm doing such 532 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,680 Speaker 1: a great thing, and I'm not doing a great thing. 533 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:50,800 Speaker 1: I'm not helping her the way she needed me to 534 00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:55,680 Speaker 1: help her. So lesson learn. So let me ask you this. 535 00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:59,960 Speaker 1: When you're doing these one hundred and fifty plus interviews, 536 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:04,840 Speaker 1: did anybody surprise you. Was there anything that they told 537 00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 1: you you didn't know prior to talking to them. 538 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:15,200 Speaker 2: I think almost every interview had a surprise because if 539 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:18,920 Speaker 2: you think about it, you and I Seryl with law enforcements. 540 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:23,160 Speaker 2: So we saw one side of this equation. But there's 541 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:26,640 Speaker 2: also the side from the media and what they're seeing. 542 00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:29,400 Speaker 2: There's a side from Richard Jewell and his team what 543 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:32,480 Speaker 2: they're seeing, there's the public. So you start talking to 544 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:36,320 Speaker 2: different people who have different perspectives. So I learned from 545 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:38,920 Speaker 2: the media and Richard Jewels team a lot of things 546 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:42,360 Speaker 2: I didn't know, but even talking with FBI agents and 547 00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:47,240 Speaker 2: GBI agents and a lot of police officers and others, 548 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,560 Speaker 2: I learned things because you can only be in one 549 00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:52,720 Speaker 2: room at a time, and they're always they're all in 550 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:57,120 Speaker 2: different rooms. So it was a way to He's together 551 00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,880 Speaker 2: a much richer story than anyone person could ever know. 552 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:06,840 Speaker 2: So short answer, I really think we learned something from 553 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:10,040 Speaker 2: every single interview that's incredible. 554 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:15,160 Speaker 1: Doesn't necessarily shock me, but kinda. I mean, that's incredible. 555 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:19,520 Speaker 1: So you go on, you write the book. When does 556 00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:21,200 Speaker 1: Clint Eastwood call honey? 557 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:25,200 Speaker 2: Yeah? That was wild. So we knew there was a 558 00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:28,720 Speaker 2: movie that was underway, but it wasn't a Clint Eastwood movie. 559 00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:33,239 Speaker 2: I turned the Initially it was a movie that was that. 560 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:37,720 Speaker 2: It was through Disney and they were they talked with 561 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:42,840 Speaker 2: a sum when another director who had been slavey to it, 562 00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:47,960 Speaker 2: Ezra Adelman, who did the documentary OJ Maiden America. He 563 00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 2: won an Academy Award for it. Great director, brilliant guy. 564 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,640 Speaker 2: The Clint Eastwood piece came around because when Ezra Aidelman 565 00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:59,800 Speaker 2: was going to be the director, he took a look 566 00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:02,360 Speaker 2: at the script and said I need more. And then 567 00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:04,800 Speaker 2: he reached out because he heard we were writing a book. 568 00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:08,000 Speaker 2: We did a PowerPoint presentation for him and he just said, 569 00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:10,520 Speaker 2: I need your book. And at that point I think 570 00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:12,600 Speaker 2: we had five chapters written. He said I don't care. 571 00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:15,200 Speaker 2: I need your book. So he said, I need to 572 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 2: talk to your film agent or his producer called up 573 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:20,440 Speaker 2: and I'd never never even met a film agent in 574 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:24,160 Speaker 2: my life. So we scrambled and found somebody. So originally 575 00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:29,360 Speaker 2: the deal we did was with Disney, but then Warner 576 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:33,360 Speaker 2: Brothers bought the whole project because Clint Eastwood decided he 577 00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,000 Speaker 2: wanted to do the movie. So they had a new director, 578 00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:40,520 Speaker 2: a new studio. We just came with the package and 579 00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:45,040 Speaker 2: initially got no calls from Warner Brothers, but we talked 580 00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:47,400 Speaker 2: with their producers. I sent an email to him and 581 00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:49,080 Speaker 2: I said, so, I don't know, maybe you've got the 582 00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:52,800 Speaker 2: hundreds of personal photographs we have from Richard Jewele's collection. 583 00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:57,200 Speaker 2: Maybe you have the actual videotape of the interview that 584 00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:00,080 Speaker 2: the FBI did with Richard Jewel when they gave the 585 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:03,680 Speaker 2: Miranda rights the wrong way and it was everything went sideways. 586 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:07,080 Speaker 2: You know, maybe you've got you've talked to one hundred, 587 00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:09,279 Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty plus people we've talked to. And 588 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:12,839 Speaker 2: then I got a call right back saying could we 589 00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:17,000 Speaker 2: meet with you and Kevin, my co author, like tomorrow. 590 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:19,040 Speaker 2: So we met with them, and that's when we ended 591 00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:21,880 Speaker 2: up getting on board with Clint Eastwood because they decided 592 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 2: they really wanted a lot of the information we had. 593 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:27,600 Speaker 1: That's unreal, unreal. 594 00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:33,560 Speaker 2: Ya, it was, it was. It was pinch pinched myself, unreal. Yeah, 595 00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:35,879 Speaker 2: we were writing a book thinking, well, there's some movie 596 00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:37,600 Speaker 2: going on to be part of it. Next thing, you know, 597 00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:40,120 Speaker 2: we're part of one movie and the next thing, you know, 598 00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:43,560 Speaker 2: it's a different movie. But a clinice Wood directed the movie. 599 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:46,319 Speaker 2: So yeah, there was a lot of fun stuff that 600 00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:48,480 Speaker 2: went on with the movie after that. It was great. 601 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:50,600 Speaker 1: And let me tell you, that movie was so good. 602 00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:54,120 Speaker 1: I thought it was fantastic. But you know, I was 603 00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:57,920 Speaker 1: a little sad because Richard Jewel died before the movie 604 00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:00,759 Speaker 1: came out, and I just thought, well, you know what, 605 00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:05,520 Speaker 1: he would love this because it vindicates him. I know 606 00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:09,120 Speaker 1: from Dana. He was a huge Clint Eastwood fan, and 607 00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:12,480 Speaker 1: I think it would have really done a lot for 608 00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:14,000 Speaker 1: him on a personal level. 609 00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:18,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you're exactly right, and Dana knows better 610 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:23,400 Speaker 2: than anybody. Also Richard's mother, who would have said the 611 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:27,320 Speaker 2: same thing. He died, of course, at forty four, very young. 612 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:30,360 Speaker 2: The reporter who broke the story that he was the suspect, 613 00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:34,760 Speaker 2: the aj Seerborg, died at forty two. The FBI agent 614 00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:38,560 Speaker 2: who made the case that wasn't died at fifty seven, 615 00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:40,719 Speaker 2: which used to seem old to me. That doesn't seem 616 00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:44,200 Speaker 2: so old. So there's a Shakespearean aspect to the entire 617 00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:46,960 Speaker 2: story because you've got all the key characters who are 618 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:52,160 Speaker 2: gone and ironically and unfortunately, the one character who's still 619 00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,360 Speaker 2: alive out of the main characters, is Eric Rudolph, the 620 00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,400 Speaker 2: one who really doesn't deserve to be Frankly. 621 00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:01,560 Speaker 1: Of course, because this is a track. Of course, he's 622 00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:02,080 Speaker 1: still here. 623 00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:05,959 Speaker 2: If I were able to interview Richard Jewel, the first 624 00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:08,440 Speaker 2: thing I would do is the same thing I did 625 00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:10,200 Speaker 2: when I met him the first time, which is the 626 00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:13,239 Speaker 2: morning of the bombing. I was at Centennial Park, went 627 00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:18,000 Speaker 2: to the FBI command center, and then drove to Centennial Park. 628 00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:24,600 Speaker 2: Alice Hawthorne's body was still veiled out on the plaza is. 629 00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:27,960 Speaker 2: A light came up, somebody pointed out Richard Jewel and said, 630 00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:31,360 Speaker 2: that's the security guard who found the bomb. So I 631 00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:34,200 Speaker 2: went up to him and I shook his hand, and 632 00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:36,120 Speaker 2: I said, missus Jewel, I want to say thank you. 633 00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:39,280 Speaker 2: If I had a chance to interview him down later 634 00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:41,439 Speaker 2: and he was still alive and talk to him about 635 00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:44,520 Speaker 2: this movie, I would just tell him thank you again 636 00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:49,120 Speaker 2: because he was because he was a hero. What he 637 00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:50,920 Speaker 2: did saved a lot of lives. 638 00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:55,680 Speaker 1: Amen, Ken't, Alexander, I cannot thank you for the time 639 00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:58,359 Speaker 1: that I was able to work with you, and what 640 00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:03,600 Speaker 1: you showed me and what you did for not just 641 00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:06,000 Speaker 1: the city of Atlanta during the Olympics, but what you 642 00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:10,080 Speaker 1: have done for so many people across the United States. 643 00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:12,719 Speaker 1: I just want to say again, thank you so. 644 00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:15,239 Speaker 2: Much, Thank you Chel for all you've done too. 645 00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:17,799 Speaker 1: Y'all. I'm going to end Zone seven the way that 646 00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:22,920 Speaker 1: I always do with a quote. Today I have delivered 647 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:27,279 Speaker 1: a letter to Council for Richard Jewel advising him that, 648 00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:31,680 Speaker 1: based on the evidence developed to date, mister Jewel is 649 00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:36,080 Speaker 1: not a target of the Centennial Olympic Park bombing investigation. 650 00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:43,680 Speaker 1: US Attorney Kent Alexander. I'm Cheryl McCollum, and this is 651 00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:44,360 Speaker 1: Zone seven.