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Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet. As a production

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Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio and Unboss Creative. I'm Bridget Todd and this

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Speaker 1: is There Are No Girls on the Internet. Birth Control

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Speaker 1: is the latest battleground in a wave of online misinformation

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Speaker 1: targeting young people, and doctors and reproductive health advocates are

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Speaker 1: sounding the alarm about its impacts. But this isn't just

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Speaker 1: your typical fear mongering about birth control the kid coming

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Speaker 1: from Bible thumbers or conservative politicians and suits. This new

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Speaker 1: wave is coming from well miss influencers, the ones in

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Speaker 1: matching pastel workout sets who are linking a balanced natural

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Speaker 1: life with ditching hormonal birth control. And while it may

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Speaker 1: look like a rebrand, this kind of misinformation is as

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Speaker 1: harmful as ever. To unpack what's going on, I spoke

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Speaker 1: with my friends Samantha and Nanny over at the podcast Stuff.

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Speaker 1: Mom never told you we were talking right around Halloween,

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Speaker 1: so of course we had to start with our opinions

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Speaker 1: on horror movies, because what's scarier than wellness misinformation? Right?

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Speaker 1: What's funny to me is both of you had to

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Speaker 1: sneak to watch horror as youth. I grew up in

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Speaker 1: the opposite household I was. My dad was the person

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Speaker 1: who was taking a much too young child to the

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Speaker 1: theater to see horror movies, and we would This is

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Speaker 1: not going to make him sound like a great parent,

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Speaker 1: which I swear he was, but we would stay up

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Speaker 1: late to watch Tales from the Crypt together, which to

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Speaker 1: this day, I loved Tails from the Crypt. It's hard

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Speaker 1: to find. You can watch it probably bootleg on YouTube.

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Speaker 1: But there was a time in my life, like maybe

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Speaker 1: a year ago, when I was having a really tough time,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, would it be weird to buy

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Speaker 1: myself a cameo from the crypt Keeper where it's just

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Speaker 1: like a cameo to me from me, where the cryptkeeper

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Speaker 1: is giving me a message. Would that be weird? I

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Speaker 1: decided it would be. But like, that's how much I

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Speaker 1: love Tales from the Crypt and horror anthology in general.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know, I remember, as you say that,

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Speaker 2: I remember sneaking episodes of that as well as the

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Speaker 2: newer Twilight Zone. Do you know what I'm talking about.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't the old one, it was a newer version

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Speaker 2: that also really twisted. Like I remember the Lottery was, uh,

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Speaker 2: do you know what I'm talking about? That episode the

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Speaker 2: lottery on the Twilight Zone and everything ends up bad.

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Speaker 2: Kind of the same thing with a paper and I

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Speaker 2: remember a haunted house on that one. Like I remember

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Speaker 2: those episodes. They were like short shots of something haunting

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Speaker 2: that never really had a good ending, and you're just like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: give me more than that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm a sucker for the Twilight Zone and horror

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Speaker 1: anthologies in general where it has some sort of a

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Speaker 1: twist ending where oh no, it was do you know

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Speaker 1: what I'm saying?

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, the real monsters were, man all I love.

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Speaker 1: I'm a sucker for a like artistic twist. And they

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Speaker 1: even make one of them on the Futurama where time

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Speaker 1: enough to read I broke my glasses. Oh well, I

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Speaker 1: can still read the large the large print books. My

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Speaker 1: eyes fell out. I'm a sucker for that.

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Speaker 2: Yes, well, I think you should also definitely buy that

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Speaker 2: cameo because sometimes you just need a pep talk. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I did not have that in one of your favorite

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Speaker 2: like childhood memories. That's the best.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god. When I was a kid, I used

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Speaker 1: to do a cryptkeeper impression. I used to do. This

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Speaker 1: is so such a tangent. Impressions of the crypt keeper

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Speaker 1: and the way that the Martians speak on Mars attacks

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Speaker 1: and my brother would die laughing. You would be bowled over.

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Speaker 1: That was Those are my two the two impressions I

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Speaker 1: had when I was a child.

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Speaker 2: I want to.

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Speaker 1: Extra money doing a cripkeeper cameos, I would be there.

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Speaker 2: I'd listen why, I would pay yes, yes, just through this.

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Speaker 4: Oh wow, I love that so much. Oh well, this

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Speaker 4: is kind of an unfortunate segue, but it is true

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Speaker 4: that every time Halloween comes around there's kind of a

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Speaker 4: strange tension for me because usually there's both an election

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Speaker 4: coming up, but also, uh, you know, when you talk

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Speaker 4: about like what you're really afraid of, there's sort of

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Speaker 4: the horror movie answer, which is very scary, and then

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Speaker 4: there's like the real world answer that we're living in,

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Speaker 4: which is also scary. So it's sort of every time

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Speaker 4: I'm always like, I love this more Halloween seasonal horror

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Speaker 4: movie thing, but there's also this real world horrific thing

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Speaker 4: that's happening.

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Speaker 1: Oh yes, yeah, what a scarrier than things like misinformation.

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Speaker 4: I mean, if there could be an evil cackle right now,

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Speaker 4: there should be.

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Speaker 1: Wow, I love it.

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Speaker 2: So that was amazing. I'm gonna do that again, everybody

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Speaker 2: we're gonna say should use that as like a meme

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Speaker 2: or something. I don't know how to do with this.

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Speaker 2: Someone put it as a sound cover.

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Speaker 1: That was amazing, so much good. Yes, we are talking about.

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Speaker 4: A lot of misinformation today, and specifically around a certain topic, right, bridget.

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Speaker 1: That is right, because if y'all have spent any time

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Speaker 1: at all on TikTok lately, I probably don't need to

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Speaker 1: tell you that social media platforms are a wash in

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Speaker 1: misinformation about hormonal birth control. And I actually find it

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Speaker 1: interesting but also kind of very telling that I'm not

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Speaker 1: talking about content that is warning about some specific side

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Speaker 1: effect really about birth control. What I'm talking about is

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Speaker 1: sort of this content that has a fit looking young

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Speaker 1: woman influencer type promising that you will kind of get

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Speaker 1: a vague feeling of feeling more like you if you

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Speaker 1: go off birth control. And so the question they sort

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Speaker 1: of ask is, who am I without birth control? Will

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Speaker 1: I feel some sort of a positive difference if I

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Speaker 1: stop using it? Yeah?

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Speaker 4: And you know this is not new, but it's definitely

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Speaker 4: been amplified by social media, and these influencers are spreading

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Speaker 4: the message.

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Speaker 1: Oh yes, and I guess like that, like the thing

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Speaker 1: that social media is specifically flooded with. It's this sort

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Speaker 1: of vibe based reasoning for coming off birth control, right,

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Speaker 1: It's not I'm having this specific side effect, this specific

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Speaker 1: issue or use case. It's no. The vibes are all

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Speaker 1: are terrible for birth control. And there was a really

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Speaker 1: great piece in The New York Times called who Am

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Speaker 1: I Without birth Control? That I looked at that really

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Speaker 1: examines how misinformation around birth control is impacting real women.

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Speaker 1: They chronicled a young woman named Ashley, who was twenty six.

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Speaker 1: They write she had started taking birth control pills a

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Speaker 1: decade earlier, when she was fifteen. Now, as she browsed

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Speaker 1: her social media feeds, she kept stumbling on videos of

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Speaker 1: women saying how much better they felt when they stopped

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Speaker 1: taking the pill. Content she was not seeking out the

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Speaker 1: post typically what like this, a glowing blonde and a

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Speaker 1: workout top, the picture of health, saying that she stopped

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Speaker 1: taking birth control pills and immediately felt more clarity of mind,

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Speaker 1: like an emotional fog had lifted, like she was a

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Speaker 1: brand new, much happier person. So Ashley, seeing all of this,

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Speaker 1: decides to go off birth control pills. Cult Turkey, which

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Speaker 1: is not recommended by doctors, even though she is in

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Speaker 1: a newish relationship with someone, and they both agreed it

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Speaker 1: is too early to even be thinking you about kids.

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Speaker 1: So who is Ashley without birth control? Well, turns out

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Speaker 1: she's a mom because just one year after she stopped

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Speaker 1: taking her pill, those pills, she became a mother. Her

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Speaker 1: baby was four months old when that article was written.

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Speaker 1: And so I thought that was such a funny way

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Speaker 1: for the article to start thinking that if I go

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Speaker 1: off the pill, I'll have some vaguely better life, And

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Speaker 1: it's like, no, who are you not on the pill?

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Speaker 1: Probably a parent, to be honest. If you're having sex,

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Speaker 1: probably a parent, I mean.

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Speaker 2: And then other things. There's so much to this conversation

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Speaker 2: because I think we've already kind of hinted towards things

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Speaker 2: like this in our talked about chadwise and then also

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Speaker 2: the yoga pipeline, the influencers in that wellness circle where

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Speaker 2: we talk about this level of misinformation and being like,

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Speaker 2: if you do all these things naturally that you're going

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Speaker 2: to be so blessed with just being a stay at

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Speaker 2: home mom and being able to take care of your

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Speaker 2: family and yourself, you're going to feel healthy and light

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Speaker 2: and young and feel complete. But all this is in

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Speaker 2: a rhetoric to a very very dangerous conversation about the

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Speaker 2: loss of rights for those who are marginalized and specifically

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Speaker 2: those who have uteresses. Yea in this moment, But they

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Speaker 2: are really doing a great job and changing, Like feminism

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Speaker 2: is being able to be a mom, stay at home.

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Speaker 2: Wouldn't you rather do that than have to struggle by

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Speaker 2: yourself in a world that doesn't appreciate you type of conversation.

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Speaker 2: So it seems like this is one more narrative for

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Speaker 2: the wellness chain, which is an odd and very tricky conversation.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you put that so well, and you know,

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Speaker 1: there is nothing wrong with wanting to become a parent.

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Speaker 1: There's nothing wrong with staying at home and not doing

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Speaker 1: wage earning work if that is your choice and you

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Speaker 1: can swing it. All of those things are great, and

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Speaker 1: the point of feminism is that people should be able

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Speaker 1: to have the choices that work for them. However, having

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Speaker 1: an entire media ecosystem that essentially rebrands having less control

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Speaker 1: and less autonomy into good things is not a dynamic

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Speaker 1: where people get to make their own decisions. Really, when

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Speaker 1: you are being algorithmically fed and surfaced. Because remember Ashley

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Speaker 1: said that she was not even seeking out content about

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Speaker 1: the dangers of birth control, that content found her. When

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Speaker 1: you are a wash in that kind of rhetoric and

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Speaker 1: that kind of misinformation, I would argue that you are

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Speaker 1: not really in a dynamic where you're able to make

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Speaker 1: real choices for yourself. And yeah, social media content and podcasts,

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Speaker 1: they are an entire media ecosystem spreading and amplifying misinformation

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Speaker 1: about birth control. And interestingly, they're not exuplicitly warning against

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Speaker 1: birth control for religious or political reasons. Right the same way, Sam,

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Speaker 1: that you were saying, Oh, it's so easy these days

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Speaker 1: to just have it bo I'm just into yoga and wellness.

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Speaker 1: Three swipes later and you're looking at Nazi content, right,

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Speaker 1: like it's so easy, and a lot of that stuff.

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Speaker 1: They're able to use things that feel not non political,

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Speaker 1: and they're not being talked about exuplicitly as political, but

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Speaker 1: they are political. And so with this kind of birth

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Speaker 1: control misinformation that we're seeing increasingly on social media, it

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Speaker 1: doesn't come out and say, hey, we're anti birth control

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Speaker 1: for political or religious reasons. It's because birth control is

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Speaker 1: bad for you, and so I think that that is

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Speaker 1: a pretty insidious approach because just like wellness other kinds

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Speaker 1: of wellness, it doesn't just appeal to people who are

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Speaker 1: political or religious, it also just appeals to people who

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Speaker 1: are concerned about their overall health or wellness. And so

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Speaker 1: increasing this message that's that being on birth control is

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Speaker 1: at odds with being healthy well and quote pure like

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Speaker 1: that is the underlying message being presented here.

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Speaker 2: That makes me want to throw my computer because I

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Speaker 2: swear to God, it took us so long to get

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Speaker 2: to the point that women can say this is a

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Speaker 2: hormonal imbalance issue for me, and I have been struggling

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Speaker 2: all of my life as a teen having pains where

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Speaker 2: it took me out for two or three days, or

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Speaker 2: having this mood disorders that did not make sense, and

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Speaker 2: feeling like I'm in hell every period or rough three

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Speaker 2: weeks out of the month, like I remember growing up

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Speaker 2: being told these are the things you're just that's just

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Speaker 2: being a woman. And it took us so long to

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Speaker 2: finally get to a point and be like, oh, maybe

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Speaker 2: we should There should be research and there should be

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Speaker 2: medical actions that can happen that could help us. And

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Speaker 2: I felt like we go there for like just the

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Speaker 2: split suckond good and we were actually accepting that as

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Speaker 2: an okay, that might be okay for us to have.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm glad that you said that, because I

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Speaker 1: want to be like very clear, hormonal worth control is

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Speaker 1: not for everyone. It can have side effects. Case and point,

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Speaker 1: it was not a good option for me because it

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Speaker 1: gave me headaches. So this is not me saying everybody

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Speaker 1: should go out there and get on hormonal birth control.

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Speaker 1: People should talk to their doctor and figure out what

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Speaker 1: kind of birth control is right for them. If birth

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Speaker 1: control is right for them, there are all kinds of

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Speaker 1: non hormonal birth control options to consider. Again, people should

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Speaker 1: be talking to their medical professionals. They should not be

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Speaker 1: trusting random influencers on social media or random podcasters. But

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Speaker 1: right now those are the people who are really speaking

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Speaker 1: the loudest and frankly kind of owning the conversation about

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Speaker 1: birth control, and people are listening. They really have an audience.

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Speaker 2: And it's coming back. They were coming back to that

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Speaker 2: old school thought of you just need to deal with it.

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Speaker 2: It's putting more things in your body doesn't help you.

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Speaker 2: All these things and really being like you need to

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Speaker 2: let your body work itself out, and really telling people

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Speaker 2: to suffer because it's a wellness thing.

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Speaker 1: It's like, literally, yeah, you want to be pure, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's just birth control is just bad for you. And honestly,

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Speaker 1: the kinds of stuff that people say about birth control

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Speaker 1: is crap, just a little bit of a summary. So

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Speaker 1: Alex Clark, who hosts Culture Apothecary, which is sort of

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Speaker 1: a conservative wellness podcast on the Late Charlie Kirks Network,

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Speaker 1: Turning Quints USA, she has suggested that the way that

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Speaker 1: women are prescribed birth control is linked to fertility issues,

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Speaker 1: which it isn't. She's also even said that birth control

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Speaker 1: pills can falsely make women feel that they might be bisexual,

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Speaker 1: which I don't think I need to tell anybody, but

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Speaker 1: just in case that's not true, birth control pills cannot

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Speaker 1: turn you queer or gay.

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Speaker 2: Genuine reactions.

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Speaker 1: I was already, I was already. On an episode of

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Speaker 1: Joe Rogan's podcast, Callie Means, who now is an advisor

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Speaker 1: to help Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Junior basically said that

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Speaker 1: the medical industry views worth control as recurring revenue and

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Speaker 1: that the reason that they're trying to get people to

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Speaker 1: take the pill is because it's recurring revenue, and that oh,

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Speaker 1: if you can get somebody to be on the pill,

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Speaker 1: they're going to be taking it for most of their lives.

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Speaker 1: And it's this implied conspiracy that no, no, this is

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Speaker 1: not medication that might genuinely help somebody or might genuinely

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Speaker 1: give somebody more autonomy or more choice. No no, no, no no,

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Speaker 1: it's a way to just make big pharma is making

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Speaker 1: money off of you to harm you.

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Speaker 2: They are so good about taking this type of rhetoric,

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Speaker 2: and I say they as being like anti abortion, slash,

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Speaker 2: anti uterus, anti marginal arts people group community and taking

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Speaker 2: things and making sure to a conspiracy to really freak

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Speaker 2: everybody out. Be like, no, no, but this is what's

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Speaker 2: really happening. It's not because I'm being anti apportion. I

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Speaker 2: don't know what you're talking about.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And so wait, it's so true because when you

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Speaker 1: look up birth control on TikTok, you'll find women talking

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Speaker 1: about how birth control like room into their bodies quote

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Speaker 1: unquote by making them gain weight or taking their libidos.

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Speaker 1: And these are things that actually can be symptoms of

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Speaker 1: hormonal birth control. So they're not wrong. But the thing

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Speaker 1: is like, if I were to make a TikTok about

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Speaker 1: how my doctor took me off birth control because it

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Speaker 1: was giving me headaches, This is not gonna be advice

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Speaker 1: for everybody, right, Like, it's very specific to me and

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Speaker 1: my body. And importantly, the dominant messages on social media

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Speaker 1: frame birth control as a conversation that is not like, oh,

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Speaker 1: talk to your doctor if birth control is giving you

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Speaker 1: this specific side effect. No, no, no, it is your doctor

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Speaker 1: is in cahoots with the government to lie to you

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Speaker 1: by actually forcing you to be on birth control, that

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Speaker 1: it is harming you. Right, It's I honestly wouldn't have

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Speaker 1: a problem with well, I don't know. I guess I

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Speaker 1: feel like it gets dicey when you're putting medical advice

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Speaker 1: online if you're not a doctor. But I honestly wouldn't

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Speaker 1: have that big of a problem with it if it

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Speaker 1: was just like, here's my side effect and this is

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Speaker 1: what I did. Instead, it's this purposely conspiratorial thing that

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Speaker 1: is so obviously being phrased in the most inflammatory way

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Speaker 1: to get engagement. Like The New York Times spoke to

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Speaker 1: one of these influencers who has like just under one

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Speaker 1: hundred thousand followers who went on TikTok and talked about

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Speaker 1: birth control as being evil and then said, well, obviously

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Speaker 1: I exaggerate on social media. You can't have a lukewarm take.

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Speaker 1: And I'm thinking, do you really want to be taking

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Speaker 1: medical advice from an influencer who is openly telling The

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Speaker 1: New York Times that she needs to make things as

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Speaker 1: spicy and inflammatory as possible to get views on social media?

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Speaker 1: Like do you not see the way that she's incentivized

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Speaker 1: to essentially tell the most extreme story of something as

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Speaker 1: important as your health.

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Speaker 2: Again, it goes back to also in my mind, like

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Speaker 2: they're not completely wrong when it comes to women's health.

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Speaker 2: They don't care, so they they being pharmaceuticals. I sound

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Speaker 2: very very conspiratory right now in that level of like

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Speaker 2: they do want to make money. It's the same reason

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Speaker 2: why period products are not offered for free and there's

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Speaker 2: an increase and there's tax on it, because they can

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Speaker 2: make more money and they know that it's needed. And

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Speaker 2: instead of helping to have a cost efficient way of

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Speaker 2: treating women as well as actually researching on how the

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Speaker 2: best way to help because some of the beginning of

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Speaker 2: birth control was real, gross, real eugenics what like it

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Speaker 2: was real gross, like let's be real clear on that,

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Speaker 2: but instead of actually seeking to help women, it kind

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Speaker 2: of had turned the other way of like, Eh, we

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Speaker 2: don't care enough about helping people with the uterses. We

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Speaker 2: don't really want to help them, but if we're going to,

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Speaker 2: we're going to make it as least effective or as

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Speaker 2: many side effects so we can also make money and

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Speaker 2: let them know this is your only sol Like there's

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Speaker 2: this level of like, you're not completely wrong, but instead

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Speaker 2: of helping in a right way, you're just making us

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Speaker 2: go back twenty steps.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and bad actors are so good at exploiting that

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Speaker 1: kind of kernel of truth. That's what they do, right,

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Speaker 1: And so I get it because listen, traditionally, marginalized people,

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Speaker 1: especially women, are often not listened to by medical professionals,

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Speaker 1: are often not treated with respect or care. Oftentimes when

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Speaker 1: you're talking about medicines and medical things, these are things

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Speaker 1: that we're not tested or researched on our body specifically.

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Speaker 1: So all of that is true, and we're right to

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Speaker 1: be pissed off about that, we're right to call that out.

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Speaker 1: But what these content creators do is that they swoop

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Speaker 1: in and exploit that very real problem, that very real issue,

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Speaker 1: and use it to push potentially harmful, untrue messages about

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Speaker 1: our health. And so, yeah, I completely agree that they're

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Speaker 1: not wrong, and they're not wrong to be skeptical, paranoid,

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Speaker 1: all of that. But then you have these influencers basically

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Speaker 1: filling the void with lies, lies that lead to people

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Speaker 1: feeling more anxious and more suspicious. When The New York

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Speaker 1: Times surveyed women about how our current social media climate

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Speaker 1: is making them think about birth control, these messages did

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Speaker 1: not just make them want to stop using birth control.

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Speaker 1: It made them fearful, paranoid, anxious, suspicious, specifically suspicious of

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Speaker 1: their own doctors, and made them feel more trust toward

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Speaker 1: random influencers or podcasters. So you can see why exploiting

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Speaker 1: that kernel of truth would materially benefit bad actors who

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Speaker 1: are pushing these lives about birth control.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think there's so much going on right

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Speaker 4: now with the erosion of trust that has been ongoing.

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Speaker 4: But you got like RFK Junior, and he's just pushing

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Speaker 4: out all of these things about you know what feel

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Speaker 4: like conspiracy theories to me, but to other people seem

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Speaker 4: like truths. I have a friend who worked at the

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Speaker 4: CDC and she was seeing you know, COVID really exacerbated

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Speaker 4: a lot of things because we were trying to get

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Speaker 4: this vaccine out, but every day, like what we knew

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Speaker 4: about it was changing, and so people started to view

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Speaker 4: that with mistrust. So you've got like this building mistrust.

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Speaker 4: And then as we talked about in the episode we

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Speaker 4: did about chat gpt and people seeking out health advice

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Speaker 4: from chat gpt, where it's so expensive to go to

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Speaker 4: a doctor or to go to a hospital, and so

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Speaker 4: people are turning to technology, and people are turning to

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Speaker 4: these influencers and they're telling you like, this is what

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Speaker 4: you have to do. This is like it worked for

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Speaker 4: me us, and it's very it's a nice thing to believe.

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Speaker 4: It's a nice thing to think, oh I could control that.

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Speaker 4: If I just stopped taking birth control, then maybe I

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Speaker 4: will be more in control of my body. And you know,

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Speaker 4: you couple that with like lack of sexual education. It's

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Speaker 4: just a real mess that we have going on right now.

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Speaker 1: And I think I like that comparison to the chat

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Speaker 1: geept example, because you know, I don't want to shame

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Speaker 1: anybody who is using chat gept or doctor Google to

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Speaker 1: figure out what's wrong with them in a climate where

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Speaker 1: just having access to medical care is so inaccessible. However,

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Speaker 1: the answer to me is not here, take this unreliable

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Speaker 1: tool chat Gypt and use that. The answer is, let's

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Speaker 1: make healthcare more accessible for everybody. And I think similarly,

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Speaker 1: the answer here should not be, oh, well, let's just

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Speaker 1: have an entire ecosystem of podcasters and influencers who are

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Speaker 1: personally incentivized to make people fearful. It's let's have a

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Speaker 1: medical industry that actually listens to people and that people

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Speaker 1: feel like they can actually trust. Like it's it's such

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Speaker 1: a it's it's it's just not a real solution. I

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Speaker 1: understand how in a climate where it is confusing to

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Speaker 1: figure out decisions for your own health and your own body,

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Speaker 1: and we have people who I would say are influencers

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Speaker 1: at the highest level of government making our health decisions,

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Speaker 1: I understand it. It is a funky climate. But the

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Speaker 1: answer is not, oh, just empower the influencers and podcasters

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Speaker 1: to essentially act as doctors. Now, it is how do

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Speaker 1: we have a more reasonable climate that people can trust

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Speaker 1: when it comes to our health and our bodies.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, and I really found this next part you have

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Speaker 4: in your outline really interesting because I never heard of

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Speaker 4: it before. I'm very familiar with the placebo effects, but

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Speaker 4: I was not familiar with its polar opposite.

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Speaker 1: Yes, the no cibo effect. So that comes from doctors

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Speaker 1: Rebecca Webster and Lorna Reed, the co authors of a

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Speaker 1: first of its kind study in a journal called Perspectives

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Speaker 1: on Sexual and Reproductive Health. So they coined the no

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Speaker 1: cebo effect, which is kind of the opposite of the

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Speaker 1: policebo effect, where when people start taking a medication, they

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Speaker 1: then start associating that medication with negative impacts. Right, So

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Speaker 1: placebo effect is I have not been given a medication,

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Speaker 1: but I think it's working for me. I think I

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Speaker 1: have positive impacts because of it, even though I didn't

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Speaker 1: really take it. The opposite of that is, I am

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Speaker 1: genuinely taking the medicine and now I am associating it

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Speaker 1: with negative impacts. And so their study found that the

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Speaker 1: no cebo effect involved four psychological factors that were associated

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Speaker 1: with women having a negative experience of hormonal birth control pills.

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Speaker 1: They were an expectation at the outset that the pill

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Speaker 1: would be harmful. Low confidence in how medicines are developed,

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Speaker 1: A belief that medicines are overused and harmful, and a

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Speaker 1: belief that they are sensitive to medicines. So, yeah, it

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Speaker 1: is it's interesting that you know, when people are taking medication,

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Speaker 1: they would then be reporting, oh, it has made me

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Speaker 1: fearful of this medication, and it has made not trust

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Speaker 1: this medication. And social media. We almost kind of can't

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Speaker 1: talk about this phenomenon without talking about social media, because

433
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 1: it's definitely a factor. Earlier this year, a study by

434
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,959
Speaker 1: public health researchers at Latrobe University found that among the

435
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:27,400
Speaker 1: top one hundred TikTok videos about reproductive health, just ten

436
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:31,360
Speaker 1: percent were from medical professionals. About fifty percent of creators

437
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:35,680
Speaker 1: made comments rejecting hormonal contraception. The top one hundred most

438
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 1: popular tiktoks about birth control had to mass some five

439
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 1: billion views, And so think about that. There's just it's

440
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 1: just that much more difficult for accurate content, want alone,

441
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:52,400
Speaker 1: accurate content that is being made by an actual healthcare professional,

442
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 1: to get traction when you're talking about a climate like TikTok,

443
00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 1: where overwhelmingly the content that is doing well and performing

444
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 1: well and being a surface for folks is content that

445
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:05,879
Speaker 1: is made by influencers and contact creators that is not

446
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:08,640
Speaker 1: based an actual fact about reproductive care.

447
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm starting to getting a lot of stuff on

448
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,560
Speaker 2: my specific TikTok where I'm like Oracle, I feel like

449
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 2: it's already having a lot of influence. And I'm sure

450
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:21,439
Speaker 2: Bridget you may have already talked about it on your

451
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,639
Speaker 2: show or you're thinking on it whatever whatnot with the

452
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 2: whole new takeover with the company that is very much

453
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:32,439
Speaker 2: associated with the Trump administration, Peter Fill all those people,

454
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 2: and then there's even some more bet worst players that

455
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:37,440
Speaker 2: I can't remember their name because they're so dark.

456
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 1: To me, it's funny that you mentioned Peter Til because

457
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:42,440
Speaker 1: that podcaster I was talking about that the time spoke

458
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 1: to Alex Clark from the conservative wellness podcast Culture Apothecary.

459
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 1: She says something that I hear quite a bit. She says, Oh, well,

460
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 1: I don't use birth control, and you don't actually need

461
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 1: worth control if you just track your period. She says,

462
00:26:57,880 --> 00:26:59,959
Speaker 1: we are not given full informed consent when it came

463
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 1: to the pill. Clark began taking her monal birth control

464
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 1: as a teenager and stopped in twenty eighteen, eventually switching

465
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 1: to tracking her menstrual cycle on her phone. She says

466
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,639
Speaker 1: she has used the apps Flow and twenty eight, the

467
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:13,919
Speaker 1: last of which was founded by the creators of the

468
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:16,919
Speaker 1: conservative EV magazine, which we talked about you and I

469
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 1: all on the show, and backed by right wing kingmaker

470
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 1: Peter Teal. Both are a fast growing, multi billion dollar

471
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 1: market for women's health technology. So this is something that

472
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 1: I often hear in this space, like, oh, you don't

473
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 1: need birth control if you just track your cycle and

474
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:37,200
Speaker 1: conveniently you can use these apps owned by billionaire Trump

475
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,879
Speaker 1: crony and if you watch that South Park episode like

476
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:45,439
Speaker 1: anti Christ expert himself, Peter Teal, or apps like Flow,

477
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:49,120
Speaker 1: which just this year, a California jury found that Meta

478
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:53,359
Speaker 1: a legally collected user health data from Flow, violating the

479
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 1: state's wiretap law. This verdict found that Flow, Google, Meta,

480
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 1: and another app analytics company called Flury we're collecting a

481
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 1: people's private menstrual health data without consent for targeted advertising.

482
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:09,879
Speaker 1: So yeah, super convenient. Don't use hormonal birth control because

483
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:13,359
Speaker 1: it's so dangerous. Instead use this app owned by a

484
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 1: Republican technocrat, or this app that the court says will

485
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:18,919
Speaker 1: share your intimate menstrual data for money.

486
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 2: Oh goodness is a nightmare and horror movie.

487
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 1: I told you, I will say the cryptkeeper would never

488
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 1: get mixed up in any of this. You carry pro

489
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:30,400
Speaker 1: your productive rights.

490
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 2: For social media has done so much for good and bad,

491
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 2: Like there's so many things that we were able to

492
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 2: access so much more and seeing around the world and

493
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 2: get a little more information and data and truth, but

494
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 2: also a lot of the misinformation and disinformation that we

495
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 2: have continually had to talk about because it's only getting

496
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 2: But like it reminds me again of like people talking

497
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 2: trying to use the ejaculation or the minute that sperm comes,

498
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 2: that's killing a baby if you I'm sorry laughing at

499
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 2: myself in this context. And for so long I've heard

500
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 2: my own people, like my age group of people, very intellectual,

501
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 2: like even like pro choice before tell me after they

502
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 2: had a baby. No, yeah, I can't use hormonal birth

503
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 2: control because it kills you know, it has spermicide, and

504
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 2: that means it's killing babies, and I cannot do that

505
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 2: as a part of my religion. But now it's flip

506
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 2: that because it it may have worked on a few

507
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:40,760
Speaker 2: but it's starting to work less and less, and so

508
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 2: now that I feel like this is its way of

509
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 2: new talking, and like, no, no, no, we're not going

510
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 2: to talk about that as the actual problem.

511
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:51,200
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean we had that. That's a very

512
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 1: common piece of misinformation about contraceptives is that they are

513
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 1: the same as abortives or abortions. The Trump administration just

514
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 1: this y was trying to falsely claim that certain forms

515
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 1: of birth control are essentially the same thing as abortions

516
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 1: in an effort to restrict access to contraceptives. And so,

517
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong with abortion, but abortion and birth control,

518
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 1: as hopefully we all learned in health class, are two

519
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 1: different things. And so if contraceptives are trying to prevent

520
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 1: in like a like an egg being fertilized, if you

521
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 1: have no fertilized egg, it's not the same thing as

522
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 1: an abortion. But the Trump administration was trying to use

523
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 1: this sort of tricky false logic to essentially further restrict

524
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 1: birth control and reproductive health more generally. Like that's really

525
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 1: what it was. But so like that is an incredibly

526
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 1: common piece of misinformation, And yeah, it just sucks that

527
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:47,480
Speaker 1: we're in a place where it's not just being traded

528
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 1: around the back of the bus or you know, on TikTok.

529
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 1: It is in our government.

530
00:30:55,200 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, and we are seeing the fall out and impacts

531
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 4: of this. One thing I find interesting is I do

532
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 4: I have some friends who are nurses and they told

533
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 4: me before, you know, people come in. People have always

534
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 4: come in since the internet has been a thing and

535
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 4: been like, you know, I saw on WebMD, I have this.

536
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 4: But now they're kind of coming in with this I

537
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 4: saw on TikTok. Is this a thing? Should I be

538
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 4: worried about this? And it's just just another task for

539
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 4: them to take on of almost educating like no, no, no, no,

540
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 4: that's not that's not what's going on. But there have

541
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 4: been some fallouts, some more measureable than others.

542
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah. So the question that I had is, well,

543
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 1: it definitely seems like misinformation about birth control is it's

544
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 1: our platforms are washing that. But is it having an impact?

545
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 1: And it's a little bit hard to say. It depends

546
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 1: on who you ask. So the New York Times work

547
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 1: with this company trily into Health, a healthcare analytics company,

548
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 1: and they conducted an analysis for The Times and found

549
00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:00,120
Speaker 1: a decrease in the use of hormonal birth control pills

550
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 1: among women age eighteen to forty four. In twenty nineteen,

551
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 1: thirteen point one percent of women said that they use

552
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 1: the pill. In twenty twenty four, that number fell to

553
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 1: ten point two percent. But researchers at the Goutbacher Institute,

554
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 1: which is like an abortion rights organization, they say that

555
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 1: they have not seen an indication of a population level

556
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 1: decrease in hormonal contraceptive use per their analysis of data

557
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 1: from the National Center for Health Statistics. And so it's

558
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 1: not totally clear if this is having a specific impact

559
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 1: that people actually are abandoning hormonal birth control. It's possible

560
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:37,320
Speaker 1: that even if they are, they're using some other kind

561
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:40,000
Speaker 1: of birth control. But we can't not talk about the

562
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 1: way that this is happening against this backdrop of an

563
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 1: administration that is clearly just hostile toward birth control and

564
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 1: reproductive healthcare in general. This spring, more than a dozen

565
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 1: public health organizations sued the Trump administration, arguing that it

566
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 1: was undercutting access to health services, including birth control, by

567
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 1: whatsholding Title X funding. And then when you take into

568
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 1: effect things like Medicaid cuts, those things would leave millions

569
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 1: of people without access to health coverage, which obviously also

570
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 1: threatens to limit things like contraceptives and birth control, and

571
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 1: so all of this stuff is not happening in a vacuum.

572
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 1: And I think that that's what scholars are sort of

573
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 1: worried about, right This one two punch of this growing

574
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 1: media climate that spreads fear lies and misinformation about birth control,

575
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 1: also combined with these policy decisions that restrict birth control.

576
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:34,760
Speaker 1: The New York Times spoke to Amanda Stevenson, a sociologist

577
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 1: at the University of Colorado Boulder, who said those two processes,

578
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 1: stigmatization and legal restrictions are mutually reinforcing. And I guess

579
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 1: I would say the piece of this that I find

580
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 1: the most interesting to me and the most telling, is

581
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 1: just sort of the way that social media has reinforced

582
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 1: being critical or skeptical or not on birth control as

583
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 1: a kind of identity. And here's how. Doctor Jennifer Penya

584
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 1: the chief medical officer for the reproductive telehealth platform WISP.

585
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 1: She says that she sees dozens of patients each year

586
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:12,319
Speaker 1: who come to her with worries rooted and misinformation. They're

587
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 1: asking her things like, is an IUD going to make

588
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 1: me infertile if I go off first control? How long

589
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 1: will it take me to get out of my system?

590
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 1: How can I do this naturally with an aora ring.

591
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:23,359
Speaker 1: I want to be pure, right, like all of these

592
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 1: things that seem so identity based, and she really traces

593
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 1: that back to these online wellness influencers. She says, there's

594
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 1: a cry for identity. Social media is becoming the algorithm

595
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 1: for education, and once there's a trend, it becomes the

596
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 1: norm for topics of conversation inside clinics. And I think

597
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:45,319
Speaker 1: that's really the thing is that people are watching all

598
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:48,400
Speaker 1: of this content and the same way that I know

599
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, maybe I'm somebody who should start wearing

600
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:53,360
Speaker 1: moreth leisure, or maybe I'm somebody who should drink smoothies.

601
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 1: The same way that social media can influence me in

602
00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 1: that way, it is also influencing people to be incredibly

603
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 1: critical and concerned about this medication. And doctors are saying, listen,

604
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:06,880
Speaker 1: we have people coming in asking us these questions that

605
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:09,760
Speaker 1: I know are rooted in online misinformation about birth control.

606
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 2: That word pure, that's such a red flag. I want

607
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:15,760
Speaker 2: to be pure.

608
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:22,120
Speaker 1: It's bad. And what's so funny to me is that

609
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:24,760
Speaker 1: the piece talked to another young woman, like a black

610
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:28,759
Speaker 1: college activist, who was like, listen, I worked my ass

611
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 1: off working retail to pay for birth control when I

612
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:34,279
Speaker 1: was in high school myself, because I wanted to have

613
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 1: the freedom that birth control allowed me in my life,

614
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 1: and I wanted to have the control that it allowed

615
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:41,759
Speaker 1: me of my life and my choices. And so she

616
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:44,839
Speaker 1: talked about how going to college now and hearing from

617
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 1: her friends who are the same age as her, who

618
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:49,840
Speaker 1: are basically saying like, oh, I don't want to be

619
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:51,839
Speaker 1: on birth control. I don't want to, you know, put

620
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:55,319
Speaker 1: that stuff in my body, and how sad it makes

621
00:35:55,360 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 1: her that in this day and age, this way of

622
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 1: helping us control our lives, our finances, our plans, our

623
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 1: futures is being so stigmatized and demonized that it makes

624
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 1: her sad. And so she became a college activist who

625
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 1: tables on her campus to help people get access to

626
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:15,799
Speaker 1: birth control. And she described it like this. She said,

627
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 1: the biggest thing I see on social media is this earthy,

628
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 1: green girl lifestyle type. Shebang, It's like a trendy aesthetic.

629
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:27,479
Speaker 1: And I guess that is my point. If you speak

630
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:29,719
Speaker 1: to a doctor and birth control is not for you,

631
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 1: more power to you. But I don't think that rejecting

632
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 1: birth control should be a trendy identity aesthetic that you

633
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 1: get from TikTok. Right, These are healthcare and medical decisions.

634
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:44,239
Speaker 1: This is a decision whether or not to take a

635
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:46,400
Speaker 1: prescription drug. That is a decision that you should be

636
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 1: making with your doctor, not with some rando on TikTok.

637
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:54,839
Speaker 1: Because you liked her green, earthy girl esthetic, right, you.

638
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 2: Got a fifteen second glimpse of her made up and

639
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:02,280
Speaker 2: seemingly happy in the Golden Hour show. That is not truth.

640
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, and who knows what her life is really like?

641
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:07,759
Speaker 1: Who knows why she is telling you this? Right? And

642
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:09,880
Speaker 1: I just think that we should really be concerned about

643
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:14,600
Speaker 1: what happens when rejecting birth control becomes this trendy identity

644
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:17,799
Speaker 1: aesthetic on TikTok. More and more women are going to

645
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 1: be losing control and autonomy over their bodies, their plans,

646
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 1: their futures, their finances, and their lives without even necessarily

647
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 1: realizing that that's what's happening. Right That the woman that

648
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 1: The New York Times spoke to Ashley, who was like,

649
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:33,200
Speaker 1: I wonder who I am if I'm not on birth control?

650
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 1: A parent who had a child before her and her

651
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 1: partner were ready to have that per her own description

652
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:41,840
Speaker 1: of the situation. And by the way, after having her child,

653
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:43,719
Speaker 1: the New York Times checked back in with her and

654
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:45,120
Speaker 1: she was like, oh, I'm on birth control now I

655
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 1: can't have another kid, you know. Yeah, that was a.

656
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:51,319
Speaker 2: Follow up I really wanted to know, honestly, And now

657
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 2: you're back on Are you good now?

658
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:57,439
Speaker 1: Yeah? I mean, she like, it's stuf. I really don't

659
00:37:57,440 --> 00:37:59,279
Speaker 1: want to make it seem like I'm saying everybody should

660
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 1: be on birth control. But the same thing that we

661
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 1: talked about with the Chadwives thing, we should not be

662
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:10,960
Speaker 1: pushing young people into giving up autonomy and giving up

663
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:13,719
Speaker 1: the things that give us choices. And even if you're

664
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:15,600
Speaker 1: not somebody who wants to or needs to be on

665
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:18,279
Speaker 1: birth control, we should not be creating a climate where

666
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 1: it's stigmatized, where somebody who does need it is going

667
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:22,760
Speaker 1: to look twice at it, or I think that's unsafe

668
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 1: for me, that's dangerous for me. If I put this

669
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:27,840
Speaker 1: in my body, I am I might turn bisexual, or

670
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 1: I might be making myself infertile, or any other kind

671
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 1: of junk that is being amplified on social media platforms

672
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 1: so responsibly right now when it comes to birth control.

673
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 2: Right, and again this comes back into this bigger layer,

674
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:42,319
Speaker 2: like we probably need to do a playlist of all

675
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:45,560
Speaker 2: of these episodes with you, because to connect these thoughts

676
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:49,320
Speaker 2: once again, there is a connection to the Chadwives conversation

677
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:53,240
Speaker 2: that we've had and misinformation about abortion from the jump,

678
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:57,160
Speaker 2: the misinformation from things like WhatsApp, who tell you it's private,

679
00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:00,400
Speaker 2: but it's not using things like this as well as

680
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 2: this conversation, like, this is a bigger chain. This is

681
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:06,839
Speaker 2: a bigger picture in a small detail that they don't

682
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:09,280
Speaker 2: actually they don't tell you that, but when you start

683
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 2: looking at who's behind that and why this information is coming,

684
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:14,919
Speaker 2: it is a bigger picture and its propaganda.

685
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, these bad actors aren't wrong. We are

686
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:21,919
Speaker 1: being lied to you, just not the people they necessarily

687
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 1: want us to be fearful of. And I think that's

688
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:27,719
Speaker 1: exactly my point that all of these things are related.

689
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 1: Tech companies are tech companies, and bad actors are materially

690
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:36,760
Speaker 1: benefiting from all of us being fearful and less informed

691
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:38,960
Speaker 1: about these choices that are so important for the way

692
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:42,320
Speaker 1: that we live our lives. And you know, I birth control.

693
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 1: I'm at the stage of my life where it's not

694
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:48,360
Speaker 1: a huge concern for me in general. But that's just

695
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 1: the thing birth control. It's not just about side effects

696
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:54,759
Speaker 1: or hormones or the ability to have sex. It is

697
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:58,320
Speaker 1: about those things, but it's also about autonomy, the ability

698
00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:01,719
Speaker 1: to make informed decisions about our own bodies based on

699
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:05,040
Speaker 1: facts and not fear. You know, that is something that

700
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:08,600
Speaker 1: generations of women fought for. My own mother, my own

701
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:10,719
Speaker 1: late mother, God, rest of your soul, she fought for that.

702
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:12,799
Speaker 1: And I just don't think we should just give that

703
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 1: up because an influencer told us to. And I think

704
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 1: that as these algorithms get louder than actual medical experts,

705
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:23,239
Speaker 1: it is really worth asking who is benefiting when we

706
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 1: stop trusting our doctors and start putting our trust in

707
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:31,359
Speaker 1: influencers and podcasters instead. And so if the question is

708
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 1: who are you without birth control? Hopefully not just content

709
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:38,799
Speaker 1: for somebody else's wellness grift right our wellness brand, The

710
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:41,880
Speaker 1: better question is who could we become when we start

711
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:46,120
Speaker 1: demanding care and content that is honest, evidence based and

712
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:48,799
Speaker 1: actually centered on us and our bodies and what we

713
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:50,160
Speaker 1: truly actually.

714
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:52,279
Speaker 2: Need big on the centered on us?

715
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:59,480
Speaker 1: Please, yes, oh absolutely well.

716
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:08,480
Speaker 4: A very spooky episode, indeed, and as always so many

717
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:11,359
Speaker 4: other things we could talk about. We always love having

718
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 4: you on. Thank you so much for coming on and

719
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 4: elucidating these things for us as much as they can

720
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:19,760
Speaker 4: be in our wild times.

721
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:24,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, my pleasure. And yeah, if anybody if the Crip keeper,

722
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 1: if you're listening, oh.

723
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 2: Yes, let us know about me out. Don't call me.

724
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:37,160
Speaker 1: Don't call me, and you probably prefer to get called

725
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:40,439
Speaker 1: by the ghost boy ghost face.

726
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:44,520
Speaker 2: Yeah did to me. There was a hot line right

727
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:46,520
Speaker 2: when the movie was coming out that you could actually

728
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:49,480
Speaker 2: send a message, So I put Annie in that she

729
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 2: got that call.

730
00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 4: It was fun, yes, and we played it in the episode.

731
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 4: It scared me very very because you told I would

732
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:58,440
Speaker 4: never answer a number that I didn't recognize, and you

733
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:01,759
Speaker 4: sent me a text Samantha that it's like, answer the call.

734
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:03,160
Speaker 2: You need to answer this phone call.

735
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:04,560
Speaker 1: It was a New York number.

736
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:07,520
Speaker 2: Tream Yeah, like you have that you need to answer

737
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:07,959
Speaker 2: this call.

738
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:11,560
Speaker 4: I did, and it scared me, uh and I loved it,

739
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:12,239
Speaker 4: so thank you.

740
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 1: Well.

741
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 4: I hope that you have more excellent horror movie times

742
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:22,080
Speaker 4: Halloween times. Uh, and we're looking forward to talking to

743
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:24,440
Speaker 4: you again. But in the meantime, Bridget where can the

744
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:25,759
Speaker 4: good listeners find you well.

745
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:28,719
Speaker 1: You can find me on Instagram at Bridget Marie in DC,

746
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 1: you can find me on TikTok at Bridget Bree and

747
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:32,920
Speaker 1: DC on YouTube at there are No Girls on the Internet,

748
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 1: and you can listen to my podcast there are no

749
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:38,920
Speaker 1: girls on the Internet. If you like spooky conversations about

750
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:46,400
Speaker 1: our social media landscape, sure, I mean honestly yes.

751
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:52,160
Speaker 4: Oh well go do that listeners, if you haven't already,

752
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:54,160
Speaker 4: If you would like to email as you can or

753
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:55,960
Speaker 4: email as Hello at stuff I Never Told You. We're

754
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:58,239
Speaker 4: also on Blue Skype, moms to podcast or Instagram and

755
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 4: TikTok at stuff I Never Told You. Also on YouTube.

756
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:03,320
Speaker 4: We have new merchandise ACoM Hero and we have a

757
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:05,080
Speaker 4: book you can get wherever you get your books. Thanks

758
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:08,120
Speaker 4: so start a superducer be Consenior Executive producer, my undercontributor Joe,

759
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:10,600
Speaker 4: Thank you and thanks to you for listening. Steffan Never

760
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 4: Told You is production of My Heart Radio. For more

761
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 4: podcast from my Heart Radio, you can check out the

762
00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:15,560
Speaker 4: heart Radio app Apple Podcast wherever you listen to your

763
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 4: favorite show