WEBVTT - Closing Statements : The Death of Cooper Harris 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:03.200 The case being discussed in the next couple of episodes 0:00:03.200 --> 0:00:07.760 of Sworn was an emotional case. It was a horrific case. 0:00:08.240 --> 0:00:12.440 It was a highly publicized and emotional case. But the 0:00:12.480 --> 0:00:16.520 purpose of this podcast is not to relitigate guilt or innocence, 0:00:17.000 --> 0:00:20.080 and nothing that I say should be interpreted as an 0:00:20.120 --> 0:00:24.000 expression of my opinion about the guilt or innocence of anybody. 0:00:24.360 --> 0:00:28.080 Neither I nor this podcast is intended to relitigate the 0:00:28.160 --> 0:00:31.600 issues at trial. The jury has spoken. This is about 0:00:31.680 --> 0:00:34.880 what the case looks like from the inside looking out. 0:00:35.240 --> 0:00:39.279 The case was extensively litigated by very good lawyers on 0:00:39.360 --> 0:00:42.559 both sides. A jury reached a verdict, and it's not 0:00:42.640 --> 0:00:46.080 our place to relitigate those issues. But we do want 0:00:46.120 --> 0:00:49.960 to bring you inside the case for an insider's look 0:00:50.280 --> 0:00:53.000 at the case of the State of Georgia versus Justin 0:00:53.360 --> 0:01:04.520 Ross Harris. Place your left hand on the bay Bible 0:01:04.520 --> 0:01:07.880 and Andre's your right hand and repeat after me. I 0:01:08.200 --> 0:01:15.080 solemnly swear the jury trying it defended, not scared and 0:01:15.120 --> 0:01:18.800 a rob the country. It makes no sense if it 0:01:18.840 --> 0:01:22.400 doesn't fit your must equipped judge. You are the last 0:01:22.720 --> 0:01:26.080 line of reason in this case. Very one of those 0:01:26.560 --> 0:01:29.840 to all the apothis and we're sworn to uphold of 0:01:29.840 --> 0:01:35.240 the Constitution. From Tenderfoot TV in Atlanta. This is Sworn. 0:01:35.840 --> 0:01:43.880 I'm your host, Philip Holloway. After releasing the first episode 0:01:43.880 --> 0:01:46.600 of the Death of Cooper Harris, I received a very 0:01:46.680 --> 0:01:50.800 interesting and unexpected phone call. It was from Leanna Taylor, 0:01:51.160 --> 0:01:54.440 the ex wife of Ross Harris and mother to Cooper Harris. 0:01:55.240 --> 0:01:57.440 As fate would have it, she was a listener of 0:01:57.480 --> 0:02:00.200 Sworn herself, and she asked to speak with me for 0:02:00.320 --> 0:02:11.359 the podcast. I am Leanna Taylor, and Cooper is my son, 0:02:12.480 --> 0:02:15.360 and I'm the ex wife of Ross Hairs. When this 0:02:15.520 --> 0:02:19.720 case first started, how were you made aware of your 0:02:19.720 --> 0:02:25.720 son's death? I was told by a detectives that came 0:02:25.760 --> 0:02:30.560 to Ross's workplace. I was not able to find my 0:02:30.639 --> 0:02:35.200 son at daycare. He wasn't there, and I was frantically 0:02:35.200 --> 0:02:37.440 trying to get in touch with Ross and was not 0:02:37.600 --> 0:02:42.520 able to And eventually, after trying to find him at 0:02:42.560 --> 0:02:45.600 work when his cell phone wouldn't connect, got a security 0:02:45.600 --> 0:02:49.520 guard involved and a daycare worker from Cooper's staycare, and 0:02:50.200 --> 0:02:52.240 we weren't able to locate him. We knew that he 0:02:52.240 --> 0:02:54.480 had left work and that was That was it, but 0:02:54.560 --> 0:02:57.280 we weren't able to locate exactly where he was, where 0:02:57.360 --> 0:03:01.080 Ross was, And eventually I've a phone call from an 0:03:01.200 --> 0:03:03.799 unknown number and when I answered it, it was the 0:03:03.880 --> 0:03:07.640 detective of Cobb County basically telling me to stay where 0:03:07.639 --> 0:03:09.120 I was, that they were going to come to me, 0:03:09.880 --> 0:03:11.680 but they wouldn't tell me what was going on. They 0:03:11.680 --> 0:03:15.040 wouldn't tell me, you know, if Cooper was okay or 0:03:15.080 --> 0:03:18.919 if Ross was okay. I didn't know any details. I 0:03:18.960 --> 0:03:23.360 didn't know what had happened. So they came to Ross's office, 0:03:23.440 --> 0:03:25.760 which is where I was at the time, took me 0:03:25.800 --> 0:03:29.520 into a room and basically told me what had happened. 0:03:30.240 --> 0:03:33.519 What was that like? Can you describe what you felt 0:03:33.639 --> 0:03:36.840 in that moment? It was awful. I mean I spent 0:03:36.880 --> 0:03:40.320 about I spent about thirty minutes in this state of 0:03:40.360 --> 0:03:43.760 mind of not knowing where Cooper was or what was 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:46.720 going on, and uh, I knew in my heart that 0:03:46.840 --> 0:03:49.480 something had happened. I knew that something bad had happened, 0:03:49.520 --> 0:03:52.760 and you're just kind of in the state of maybe 0:03:52.760 --> 0:03:56.760 I'm overreacting, maybe I'm thinking the worst, but a part 0:03:56.760 --> 0:03:59.280 of my brain was still working. It was still you know, 0:03:59.360 --> 0:04:02.200 thinking of a Cooper should have been at daycare. Something's 0:04:02.280 --> 0:04:05.720 really really wrong. And by the time they got there, 0:04:05.760 --> 0:04:09.280 I had got myself. I was worked up on the inside, 0:04:09.320 --> 0:04:11.640 but not on the outside. I was going through all 0:04:11.640 --> 0:04:14.560 the scenarios in my head. I mean, I've seen video 0:04:14.600 --> 0:04:18.560 of myself up here very calm, but only inside I was. 0:04:18.320 --> 0:04:21.560 I was very distraught. When they got there, it was 0:04:21.800 --> 0:04:23.880 it was kind of like a dream state. It was 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:27.760 very odd experience. I felt pretty much like I was floating. 0:04:27.839 --> 0:04:31.400 It felt very much like you feel in a dream 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:35.599 when it feels extremely real but you know something really 0:04:35.880 --> 0:04:39.599 really bad is off. It just felt very foreign, just 0:04:39.760 --> 0:04:43.520 really odd. You're knowing that something that you're about to 0:04:43.560 --> 0:04:46.839 get told some really bad news, and there's nothing you 0:04:46.839 --> 0:04:48.359 can do about it. There's nothing you can do to 0:04:48.480 --> 0:04:51.799 stop it, and there's nothing you can do to change it. 0:04:51.800 --> 0:04:54.839 It's just happening. It's almost kind of like being swept 0:04:54.920 --> 0:04:58.080 up in a in a wave and being pulled under. 0:04:58.080 --> 0:05:00.120 I mean, you can't stop it. There's nothing you can do. 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:04.760 It's just happening. Well, obviously, we know this case was 0:05:05.160 --> 0:05:09.080 a very high profile case and lots of things were 0:05:09.720 --> 0:05:14.760 speculated about and lots was made about statements and conversations 0:05:14.839 --> 0:05:18.560 that you had with your now ex husband, particularly in 0:05:18.640 --> 0:05:22.240 the police holding cell. There was a conversation where you 0:05:22.320 --> 0:05:25.480 were heard to ask him, did you say too much? 0:05:26.800 --> 0:05:29.279 What did you mean by that? I want to be 0:05:29.440 --> 0:05:34.479 very clear in the fact that I was legitimately out 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:39.080 of my mind. I I was so confused. I didn't 0:05:39.080 --> 0:05:41.480 show any of that on the outside, and that tends 0:05:41.520 --> 0:05:43.919 to be my personality anyway. I'm just I'm not a 0:05:44.040 --> 0:05:48.240 very openly emotional person. I keep a lot of stuff internalized. 0:05:49.560 --> 0:05:51.320 I had a lot of thoughts running through my head, 0:05:51.320 --> 0:05:53.480 and I was very confused. I had just been told 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:56.320 that my son had died. I'd been told how he died, 0:05:57.120 --> 0:06:01.719 and I couldn't make sense of anything, really, you know. 0:06:01.800 --> 0:06:03.760 I had Ross sitting in front of me telling me 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:07.640 that he was going to be charged, and I couldn't 0:06:07.680 --> 0:06:11.800 reconcile that either. And when you're sitting there in a 0:06:11.839 --> 0:06:14.720 state of mind where you're really you're really not believing 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:18.320 what's happening, you're trying to, at least I was trying 0:06:18.320 --> 0:06:20.840 to figure out, Okay, how what's going on, How is 0:06:20.880 --> 0:06:24.600 this happening? How are they charging him? I didn't believe 0:06:24.640 --> 0:06:27.600 that it was intentional. I believe that it was was 0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:32.560 an accident. And that was kind of the mindset that 0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:35.800 I had. And I knew Ross, and I knew the 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:39.080 kind of person that he was personality wise, and I 0:06:39.160 --> 0:06:40.880 knew that he talked a lot, and I knew that 0:06:40.960 --> 0:06:45.880 he would carry on a conversation, you know, longer than needed. 0:06:45.920 --> 0:06:47.880 I guess she could say. The only thing that I 0:06:47.880 --> 0:06:51.520 could think in my head is if they're charging him 0:06:51.560 --> 0:06:55.200 with this, then he must have said something that made 0:06:55.240 --> 0:06:58.440 him look guilty in a way. And I didn't because 0:06:58.480 --> 0:07:01.480 I didn't understand the charges of the time. I wouldn't 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:03.440 have been able to understand it if they had clearly 0:07:03.480 --> 0:07:06.480 explained it to me, which I'm sure they did. I 0:07:06.520 --> 0:07:10.440 wasn't in a mental or emotional state to really understand 0:07:10.520 --> 0:07:13.640 what was happening. And that's the only thing that I 0:07:13.680 --> 0:07:17.960 could think. Ross said something to make him sounds guilty 0:07:18.040 --> 0:07:21.080 in a way, and now they're charging him. And so 0:07:21.720 --> 0:07:24.240 that's basically what came out of my mouth. Did you 0:07:24.280 --> 0:07:29.080 say too much? And I didn't preface that statement with anything. 0:07:29.520 --> 0:07:32.280 The thoughts in my head were going, and I just, 0:07:32.720 --> 0:07:34.880 you know, just said, well, did you say too much, 0:07:35.760 --> 0:07:38.040 and I can see where that could be seen as 0:07:38.080 --> 0:07:40.920 a suspicious statement, you know, now looking back on it 0:07:41.080 --> 0:07:44.720 and knowing the circumstances at the time, I mean I 0:07:44.760 --> 0:07:48.240 was I was not thinking about a video camera in there. 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:51.360 I wasn't thinking about an audio recording. I was thinking 0:07:51.400 --> 0:07:55.760 about my son being gone and my husband at the 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:59.960 time being arrested for his murder. And that's the only 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:02.120 thing that I was thinking about. I wasn't trying to 0:08:02.200 --> 0:08:07.320 do anything that sounded suspicious or didn't sound suspicious. I 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:11.680 truly was just in that moment and trying to understand 0:08:11.720 --> 0:08:14.600 what was happening in that situation. I was just trying 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:18.360 to understand what was happening in that situation. What would 0:08:18.360 --> 0:08:22.560 you have to say to the people who watched this 0:08:22.640 --> 0:08:27.560 case closely and who saw that recording of that conversation 0:08:27.600 --> 0:08:31.760 in the holding cell and felt like your attention was 0:08:32.720 --> 0:08:37.319 improperly focused more on your husband than on your late child. 0:08:37.679 --> 0:08:40.319 What would you say to those people? I would say 0:08:40.360 --> 0:08:42.880 that you have no idea how you're going to react 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:48.200 in any given situation until you're in that situation. If 0:08:48.240 --> 0:08:51.079 I had been told a month before that this is 0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:53.679 going to happen to you, I would have told them 0:08:53.760 --> 0:08:55.880 that they would have had to put me in a 0:08:55.880 --> 0:08:57.840 mental institution, that there's no way I would have been 0:08:57.840 --> 0:09:01.880 able to survive it. But we have an ability, our 0:09:02.280 --> 0:09:05.320 bodies and brains have an ability to overcome things in 0:09:05.360 --> 0:09:07.720 our lives that we never would have thought was possible. 0:09:08.760 --> 0:09:12.880 And in that situation, I'm very much a kind of 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:16.839 person that I'm trying to fix what's going on right 0:09:16.880 --> 0:09:19.280 in front of me, and the only thing that was 0:09:19.320 --> 0:09:21.599 in front of me it was Ross, and that was 0:09:21.640 --> 0:09:23.920 the only thing that I knew to focus on. Was 0:09:24.160 --> 0:09:26.000 you know, at that time, you've got to people have 0:09:26.080 --> 0:09:27.920 got to understand it. At that time, I was a 0:09:28.360 --> 0:09:32.400 I was a wife, and yes my husband was cheating 0:09:32.440 --> 0:09:34.200 on me, but I didn't know that at the time. 0:09:34.440 --> 0:09:37.280 I'm sure my reaction would have probably been different had 0:09:37.360 --> 0:09:40.680 that been knowledge that I had at the time. I 0:09:40.720 --> 0:09:43.440 didn't have any of that knowledge, and so for all 0:09:43.480 --> 0:09:47.120 intentsive purposes, I was speaking to my husband that I 0:09:47.160 --> 0:09:51.000 trusted and that I didn't feel had done this on purpose. 0:09:52.080 --> 0:09:55.760 And I'm a nurturing type of person anyway, that was 0:09:55.800 --> 0:09:59.000 just a default mode that I went into. Ross was 0:09:59.040 --> 0:10:01.360 in front of me, and the there wasn't anything that 0:10:01.440 --> 0:10:04.120 I could do for Cooper. And I don't mean that 0:10:04.360 --> 0:10:06.440 the way it maybe sounds two people, but there was 0:10:06.480 --> 0:10:09.800 nothing that I could do Cooper at that point. It 0:10:09.880 --> 0:10:12.440 was too late. The only thing that I could do 0:10:12.640 --> 0:10:15.920 was trying to help Ross at the time. I want 0:10:15.920 --> 0:10:19.800 to fast forward just a minute to Cooper's funeral, and 0:10:20.679 --> 0:10:24.439 at the funeral when you were giving, in essence a eulogy, 0:10:24.840 --> 0:10:28.439 the media was there and it was everything was recorded, 0:10:28.440 --> 0:10:31.320 and so that it was audio that was broadcast of 0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:36.680 basically you saying words to the effect that you would 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:40.280 not bring Cooper back if you could, but that Ross 0:10:40.480 --> 0:10:43.000 was a good father and you would you would have 0:10:43.080 --> 0:10:47.280 another child with him. People found that to be an 0:10:47.320 --> 0:10:49.719 unusual statement, and a lot of people found it to 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:53.200 be a suspicious statement. What would you say to those 0:10:53.240 --> 0:10:56.040 people and what did you mean by that? I can 0:10:56.200 --> 0:10:59.080 understand how that could be taken a couple of different ways. 0:10:59.480 --> 0:11:01.400 I can playing it in the way that I am 0:11:01.400 --> 0:11:03.680 a Christian and I'm very strong in my faith, and 0:11:04.600 --> 0:11:08.880 we believe as Christians that when you die, especially children, 0:11:09.120 --> 0:11:11.640 we believe that they go immediately to heaven, and heaven 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:13.520 is a place of paradise, it's the place of no 0:11:13.679 --> 0:11:17.800 tears and no pain. And as a mother who is 0:11:17.840 --> 0:11:21.320 burying her child, I was trying to be unselfish, and 0:11:22.400 --> 0:11:25.199 I was still in a very strange mental state at 0:11:25.200 --> 0:11:27.760 that point. I was I was not emotionally stainable. I 0:11:27.840 --> 0:11:31.880 was not mentally stable in any way. And it's not 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:35.840 like I've said anything with the intention of people taking 0:11:35.840 --> 0:11:39.600 it and picking it apart and trying to make something 0:11:39.640 --> 0:11:43.920 that it wasn't. But as a parent, if your child 0:11:44.080 --> 0:11:49.480 is experiencing something amazing like heaven, that's paradise, it would 0:11:49.480 --> 0:11:52.760 be selfish for you to to pull them back from that. 0:11:53.480 --> 0:11:55.600 But I don't want that to be confused with the 0:11:55.640 --> 0:11:59.319 fact that if I could have prevented what happened to 0:11:59.400 --> 0:12:02.040 Cooper opening the Cooper, I would have prevented it. I 0:12:02.040 --> 0:12:04.360 would have prevented him that pain. I would have prevented 0:12:04.400 --> 0:12:07.640 him that suffering. I would have never chosen that for 0:12:07.720 --> 0:12:11.280 him in any way. I think that what I said 0:12:11.440 --> 0:12:13.360 was just kind of taken out of the context that 0:12:13.400 --> 0:12:15.480 I meant it in. I really don't know how to 0:12:15.520 --> 0:12:18.240 explain it other than the fact that I believe that 0:12:18.320 --> 0:12:21.360 Cooper's in heaven. I believe that he's there now, and 0:12:21.400 --> 0:12:23.800 I believe that heaven is a much better place than 0:12:24.040 --> 0:12:27.520 we live on earth, and that it would be selfish 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:30.120 of me to pull him back from that now as 0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:33.880 a selfish human, because I am a selfish human. Do 0:12:34.000 --> 0:12:37.280 I wish I had my son right now? Absolutely? I 0:12:37.280 --> 0:12:40.040 mean I'm having to watch my friends who had children 0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:42.760 around the same time I had Cooper send to their 0:12:42.840 --> 0:12:46.880 children off to kindergarten this year. I'll never see him 0:12:47.160 --> 0:12:49.200 do that. I'll never see him play ball, I'll never 0:12:49.240 --> 0:12:51.880 see him graduate from high school. I'll never dance with 0:12:51.960 --> 0:12:54.440 him at his wedding like I'll I'll never have those 0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:58.679 experiences with him, and I want that. I wanted that 0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:02.000 with him, and and I can't have that. So selfishly 0:13:02.679 --> 0:13:06.400 I want those things and it hurts me every single day. 0:13:06.880 --> 0:13:10.680 What was it like for you personally? What did it 0:13:10.800 --> 0:13:14.840 feel like? What was your life like when you were 0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:19.520 living under this cloud of suspicion that you ultimately were 0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:24.280 cleared from but it took a while. What was that like? Well, 0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:26.560 I do want to be clear about something before I 0:13:26.600 --> 0:13:29.320 do elaborate on that, and and that's the fact that 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:31.600 I don't I don't view myself as a victim in 0:13:31.600 --> 0:13:35.000 this case. I don't live my life with a victim mentality, 0:13:35.720 --> 0:13:38.880 but there have been some tragic and terrible things happened 0:13:38.880 --> 0:13:41.080 in my life that are just facts of my life. 0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:43.800 And sometimes when I talk about those things, people get 0:13:43.840 --> 0:13:47.000 the idea that I'm playing the victim card. That's not 0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:49.640 the case, so I just wanted to kind of clarify 0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:52.560 that before I did give details on this. It was 0:13:52.720 --> 0:13:56.760 very difficult to be and I was simultaneously mourning the 0:13:56.800 --> 0:13:59.839 loss of my child and dealing with the fact that 0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:02.800 my husband was in jail. You know, when you have 0:14:02.960 --> 0:14:05.800 bad things happen in your life, the world doesn't stop. 0:14:06.559 --> 0:14:10.040 You think it should, but it doesn't stop, and you 0:14:10.120 --> 0:14:14.320 still have responsibilities as an adult. And then finding out 0:14:14.440 --> 0:14:17.160 that you know, not only am I having to deal 0:14:17.160 --> 0:14:19.000 with the loss of my son in the absence of 0:14:19.080 --> 0:14:23.120 my husband being in jail, now I'm a suspect, and 0:14:23.560 --> 0:14:26.840 it was very difficult to deal with. I'm an only child, 0:14:27.040 --> 0:14:29.680 my mother's only child, and I had to prepare her, 0:14:29.920 --> 0:14:33.080 who had just buried her only grandchild. I had to 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:36.520 prepare her for me possibly getting arrested. It was a 0:14:36.600 --> 0:14:39.400 legitimate concern. I was advised to get an attorney. I 0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:41.920 got on an attorney. It was probably one of the 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:45.000 smartest things that I did in my situation. And then 0:14:45.040 --> 0:14:47.800 I had to prepare my family for my possible arrest. 0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:50.360 It was horrible because I was trying to keep it 0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:53.040 together for multiple people in my life. I was trying 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:55.560 to be strong. I was trying to stay on my 0:14:55.680 --> 0:15:01.320 feet and prepare them for this possible nick really horrible 0:15:01.320 --> 0:15:03.480 thing to happen, and I didn't know for a while 0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:06.800 if that was going to be a reality for me. 0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:10.600 And sitting there knowing that I had absolutely nothing to 0:15:10.640 --> 0:15:13.120 do with this other than the fact that Cooper was 0:15:13.280 --> 0:15:16.560 my son, it was terrified. At the time, it was 0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:19.960 an average thirty year old dietitian, just you know, mom, 0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:23.720 just working and taking care of Cooper and being a wife, 0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:28.440 and within a day everything changed. Where were you living 0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:34.320 and what were you doing to get by? Ross was 0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:36.320 the breadwinner of our household. I mean, he was the 0:15:36.400 --> 0:15:39.480 full time worker. He was the one that the majority 0:15:39.520 --> 0:15:42.320 of our income came from. He held our health insurance. 0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:46.520 I was just an as needed employee at the time, 0:15:47.000 --> 0:15:50.600 and I had family in Tescaloosa, and I had a 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:53.200 position come open with the company. That I was with 0:15:53.560 --> 0:15:57.800 around that time. Actually the position was open before everything happened, 0:15:57.840 --> 0:16:00.320 and when it happened, I made the decision and to 0:16:00.920 --> 0:16:04.440 move back to the Tuscaloosa area and be close to 0:16:04.520 --> 0:16:07.920 my family so that I would have that family support system, 0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:11.480 but also so that I could have full time employment. 0:16:11.680 --> 0:16:15.840 It was September of two thousand and fourteen that I 0:16:15.920 --> 0:16:20.640 officially moved back to the Tuscaloosa area and I started 0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:24.640 working full time towards the end of September. Like I said, 0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:27.800 the world doesn't stop moving, and it was good for 0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:31.760 me actually to get back into a routine of some kind, 0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:34.520 something to keep me busy and and try to keep 0:16:34.520 --> 0:16:36.760 my mind off of things. So I just I went 0:16:36.840 --> 0:16:40.520 back to work about ninety days after everything happened, and 0:16:40.600 --> 0:16:42.480 it was probably one of the good things that I 0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:44.400 did for myself at that time was to get back 0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:48.240 to work and just basically keep yourself busy because you can't. 0:16:49.000 --> 0:16:51.240 There was nothing about the situation that I could change. 0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:54.840 It was completely out of my control. I had zero power, 0:16:55.160 --> 0:16:57.920 and my goal was basically at the time to put 0:16:58.520 --> 0:17:00.840 one foot in front of the other and keep moving. 0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:03.680 And that's what I did, and that's honestly, that's what 0:17:03.760 --> 0:17:06.880 I do today. People always say that it gets better, 0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:09.720 that time hills those kinds of wounds, but it's just 0:17:09.840 --> 0:17:13.960 not true. It's it doesn't get better. You just learn 0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:16.520 to live with it. You just learned to live with 0:17:16.600 --> 0:17:19.439 the pain. That's what I did. I just learned to 0:17:19.520 --> 0:17:22.920 keep going despite what was going on in my life. 0:17:24.000 --> 0:17:27.920 Tell us about your son. I only got twenty two 0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:30.639 months with him, but they were probably the best twenty 0:17:30.640 --> 0:17:34.760 two months of my entire life. He had such a 0:17:34.760 --> 0:17:38.240 adventurous personality. I guess he could say he um. He 0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:42.080 was a happy child. He was very personable. He he 0:17:42.200 --> 0:17:45.199 wasn't scared of strangers, he wasn't scared of new people. 0:17:45.960 --> 0:17:51.280 He was just very loving towards just about anybody. We 0:17:51.440 --> 0:17:53.639 used to joke with the daycare workers he had a 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:56.639 lot of incident reports written up on him, and they 0:17:56.680 --> 0:17:59.320 do instant reports any time a child gets a boo 0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:02.000 boo at the day care, and and he would. He 0:18:02.040 --> 0:18:05.840 would have very frequent falls and stuff at daycare, and 0:18:05.960 --> 0:18:08.120 we used to joke with them that he probably had 0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:11.280 one of the largest incident report files in the daycare 0:18:11.359 --> 0:18:13.800 because we would get a call several times a week 0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:16.560 that Cooper climbed on the table and bumped his head 0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:19.119 or I mean he was trying to climb on the 0:18:19.160 --> 0:18:22.200 tables in daycare before he was walking. He was just fun. 0:18:22.280 --> 0:18:25.200 I mean, he was a pretty laid back child. We 0:18:25.200 --> 0:18:27.480 we took a trip when he was five months old, 0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:31.199 a road trip from Atlanta, Georgia, down to Miami, Florida, 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:33.600 when he was only five months old, and he was 0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:36.320 just he was just a joy. I mean, he would 0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:39.920 get fuzzy, but it didn't last very long. I think 0:18:39.960 --> 0:18:43.000 about now what he would be like, and that is 0:18:43.400 --> 0:18:45.760 he would be five now. He would have turned five 0:18:45.840 --> 0:18:49.240 on August two, and I think about all the time. 0:18:49.280 --> 0:18:51.200 You know, what would he be like now, how tall 0:18:51.240 --> 0:18:53.480 would he be? You know, what would his favorite things be? 0:18:54.200 --> 0:18:57.040 What would he be enjoyed. It's hard to know that 0:18:57.080 --> 0:18:59.280 I'll never know those things because I think that he 0:18:59.280 --> 0:19:04.959 would have grown to a very lovable and loving child 0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:07.000 and been into an adult. I think you would have 0:19:07.040 --> 0:19:18.600 been a very loving, caring personal. One day, let's talk 0:19:18.640 --> 0:19:24.000 about some things that you learned about your ex husband 0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:27.280 during the course of the investigation. Did you have any 0:19:27.359 --> 0:19:32.360 idea prior to the days Cooper died that your husband 0:19:32.920 --> 0:19:37.359 might be unfaithful. I had suspicions because of some of 0:19:37.400 --> 0:19:40.440 the problems that we've had in our marriage prior to that. 0:19:41.400 --> 0:19:45.959 I didn't know that he had been unfaithful to me physically. 0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:48.760 I knew that there were some issues with pornography, and 0:19:48.800 --> 0:19:52.080 there was an occasion of some sexting that I had 0:19:52.080 --> 0:19:55.400 discovered in two thousand and ten, But I didn't know 0:19:55.440 --> 0:19:58.680 that he was actually having physical affairs with multiple women. 0:19:59.359 --> 0:20:01.840 I didn't know that out based on those issues that 0:20:01.920 --> 0:20:04.679 you were aware of, had you sought counseling or any 0:20:04.720 --> 0:20:10.359 type of marital assistance to get past those things? We did. 0:20:10.680 --> 0:20:14.360 Neither one of us were really interested in divorce. It's 0:20:14.400 --> 0:20:17.800 strange to say, but we actually had a very good marriage. 0:20:17.960 --> 0:20:21.080 We didn't fight, we didn't have problems, We co parented 0:20:21.200 --> 0:20:25.320 very well, We got along very well. The only aspect 0:20:25.400 --> 0:20:29.240 which was very clear from the trial was intimacy issues. 0:20:29.280 --> 0:20:31.480 That Faily way I really know how to categorize it, 0:20:31.520 --> 0:20:35.280 is that we had issues with intimacy, and that has 0:20:35.320 --> 0:20:37.560 been going on for several years, and so when I 0:20:37.640 --> 0:20:42.720 had the most recent discovery of him using pornography, probably 0:20:42.760 --> 0:20:46.240 in two thousand twelve or maybe two thousand thirteen. Honestly 0:20:46.280 --> 0:20:50.320 can't remember. We did seek professional counseling from a license 0:20:50.400 --> 0:20:53.520 sex therapist to try to kill some of the damage 0:20:53.520 --> 0:20:57.000 that had occurred in our relationship because of the pornography addiction. 0:20:57.720 --> 0:20:59.639 I think we've been in counseling a little over each 0:20:59.720 --> 0:21:05.480 year when it happened. What was it like learning later 0:21:05.720 --> 0:21:10.080 what you learned about, what really was another life that 0:21:10.160 --> 0:21:12.280 you were not aware of that your husband was living. 0:21:13.800 --> 0:21:16.439 I don't think of it in my head as another life, 0:21:16.480 --> 0:21:18.280 but I can see how people can see it that way, 0:21:18.280 --> 0:21:20.600 But I don't think about it that way in my head. 0:21:20.880 --> 0:21:24.119 The intimacy issues in our marriage that we had that 0:21:24.200 --> 0:21:28.000 were ultimately called by his infidelity to me, it was 0:21:28.119 --> 0:21:30.760 evidence of that betrayal. I just didn't know that that 0:21:30.840 --> 0:21:34.320 betrayal was there, but there was evidence of it in 0:21:34.400 --> 0:21:39.000 our lack of intimacy and relationship, and there were signs, 0:21:39.000 --> 0:21:41.040 I guess you could say there were signs that there 0:21:41.080 --> 0:21:43.879 was a problem. I just didn't exactly know what that 0:21:43.960 --> 0:21:48.000 problem was. Those little bits of evidence that there was 0:21:48.040 --> 0:21:52.280 a problem they showed through I just didn't know exactly 0:21:52.320 --> 0:21:55.359 what was causing those problems at the time. Now hindsight 0:21:56.240 --> 0:21:59.800 is like they say, it's very easy to look back 0:21:59.800 --> 0:22:03.800 on our relationship now and say, well, that's exactly why 0:22:03.880 --> 0:22:06.639 we never could overcome the problems that we had because 0:22:06.680 --> 0:22:11.040 he was he was engaging in multiple affairs with multiple women. 0:22:12.000 --> 0:22:15.440 You learned, I guess from law enforcement or other sources 0:22:15.440 --> 0:22:20.240 that your husband had in fact been sexting with multiple 0:22:20.320 --> 0:22:26.120 women and engaging in sex acts with prostitutes. When did 0:22:26.119 --> 0:22:29.120 you learn those things, and when you did, how did 0:22:29.119 --> 0:22:33.160 you react to it? So the initial information that got 0:22:33.200 --> 0:22:38.360 regarding his extramarital affairs was at the Problem of Cause Hearing. However, 0:22:38.600 --> 0:22:40.800 there were some things said in the Problem Cause Hearing 0:22:40.800 --> 0:22:43.080 that I knew were not true because they involved me, 0:22:44.080 --> 0:22:48.439 And when that happened, I had a immediate distrust in 0:22:48.640 --> 0:22:52.520 the law enforcement, and I didn't necessarily believe what they 0:22:52.520 --> 0:22:54.479 were saying because I knew that they had said some 0:22:54.520 --> 0:22:56.560 things about me that was was not true, and I 0:22:56.600 --> 0:22:59.080 didn't know where they drew the line. So at that 0:22:59.240 --> 0:23:01.439 time didn't know what was true, and I didn't know 0:23:01.480 --> 0:23:06.320 what wasn't true, And there were no conversations between Ross's 0:23:06.359 --> 0:23:11.520 attorney and myself about those things because of confidentiality, So 0:23:11.720 --> 0:23:16.000 I did not find out until much later the truth 0:23:16.359 --> 0:23:20.800 about some of those accusations at the time, and I 0:23:20.840 --> 0:23:23.760 would say it was probably closer to the end of 0:23:23.800 --> 0:23:28.720 two thousands, fifteens before I found out exactly how extensive 0:23:28.840 --> 0:23:33.200