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Speaker 1: Hey Colts fans, I'm JJ Stinkobitz and welcome into another

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Speaker 1: episode of the cult show in Indianapolis Colts Podcast. We

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Speaker 1: are presented by our friends at Microsoft Surface Code Pilot

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Speaker 1: plus PC. Please remember to rate, review and subscribe to

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Speaker 1: Indianapolis Colts Podcast wherever you get your podcasts, and subscribe

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Speaker 1: to us on YouTube as well. Awesome episode today. I'm

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Speaker 1: here at Radio Road at the NFL Combine right now.

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Speaker 1: We taped all this last week, but coming up on

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Speaker 1: today's episode, I had a chance to catch up with

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Speaker 1: ESPN's Dan Graziano, Yahoo Sports Nate Tye and ESPN's Benjamin Solac,

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Speaker 1: sort of a free agency preview, if you will, but

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Speaker 1: trying to zoom out on some topics, some trends around

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Speaker 1: the league, especially with Nate and Benjamin, who are to

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Speaker 1: the smartest folks who talk about football for a living.

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Speaker 1: Really good stuff coming up here. A lot of intel

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Speaker 1: on Daniel Jones on Alic Pierce. Obviously, we're taping this

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Speaker 1: last week, so like, if you're listening to this or

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Speaker 1: watching this right now, you might already know what happened

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Speaker 1: with those two guys, but we're kind of going off

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Speaker 1: of what Chris Ballard said last week, which is that

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Speaker 1: the cults want to keep those two guys around. We'll

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Speaker 1: see how that may happen this week, if it hasn't

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Speaker 1: happened already. But for this purposes of this episode, again,

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Speaker 1: we don't know what is exactly going to happen with

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Speaker 1: those two guys. Again, you may know by now. All

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Speaker 1: right with that, let's get to Dan Graziano to start

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Speaker 1: the episode here on the Colt Show. It is my

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Speaker 1: pleasure to be joined here on the Colt Show by

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Speaker 1: ESPN's Dan Graziana. You can catch Dan on Get Up

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Speaker 1: on NFL Live across ESPN's programming. Dan, thanks for joining

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Speaker 1: us here pleasure. So we're recording this on Wednesday of

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Speaker 1: last week. Whenever this goes out, so we were talking

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Speaker 1: before coming on, we're gonna have to We're gonna have

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Speaker 1: to talk around Daniel Jones and Elk Pierce because right

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Speaker 1: now as we're recording this, we don't know the answers

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Speaker 1: on that by the time our listeners and viewers watch this,

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Speaker 1: we might have answered.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because we're right up against the franchise, right up

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Speaker 2: against the tag donline, right, so they'll have a sense

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Speaker 2: coming out of here you know what to do. We

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Speaker 2: have to sign one of those guys franchise the other

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Speaker 2: signed them both.

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Speaker 3: Whatever.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, when so Chris Ballard talks a lot on Tuesday

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Speaker 1: of this week about how he wants to get something

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Speaker 1: done with both those guys. Who wants to retain them

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Speaker 1: within this this market? What do you think retaining these

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Speaker 1: guys and why is it important for the Colt I

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Speaker 1: should probably start here. Why is it important for the

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Speaker 1: Colts to retain Daniel Jones and Alec Pierce?

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Speaker 2: Because it worked right when when Daniel was healthy first

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Speaker 2: half of last year, they were among the very best

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Speaker 2: teams in the whole league. And so knowing that it works,

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Speaker 2: everything that Chris Ballard has gone through with quarterback over

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Speaker 2: the last what seven years, like like I mean just

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Speaker 2: you know, running in veterans for a year at a time,

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Speaker 2: all that kind of stuff, we haven't seen it work

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Speaker 2: as well as it did on offense as we did

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Speaker 2: first half of twenty twenty five with Daniel Jones. So

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Speaker 2: Daniel's still young and you know they like him obviously,

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Speaker 2: the receivers. He has good rapport with those guys like that,

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Speaker 2: the offense made sense. So in a in an off

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Speaker 2: season where there doesn't seem to be much in the

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Speaker 2: draft in the way of clearcut answers and the free

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Speaker 2: agent market. If Daniel is not on, it gets pretty

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Speaker 2: thin after you know, Malik willis right, knowing you have

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Speaker 2: something that works, I think that that makes sense for

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Speaker 2: the Colls to try and keep it together. So the

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Speaker 2: question is like what form does that take? And as

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Speaker 2: you mentioned, we might know more by the time people

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Speaker 2: are watching listening to this.

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Speaker 1: You've obviously been pretty connected to the Giants over the

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Speaker 1: course of your career with Daniel specifically. Was there a

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Speaker 1: point last year where you went from being like I

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Speaker 1: don't know if this is sustainable, you know, to being like, no,

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Speaker 1: this is real. Did you hit that point?

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Speaker 3: Oh? For sure?

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Speaker 2: And I think you know what you saw week in

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Speaker 2: week out, was you know you have a I think

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Speaker 2: you have a very good offensive coach and Shane Steichen,

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Speaker 2: who you know, the best offensive play callers coaches right

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Speaker 2: now are the ones that you know can find the

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Speaker 2: quarterback that fits, maximizes strengths, minimizes weaknesses. Clinic in Seattle

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Speaker 2: year right with Sam Darnold and Clint Kubiak, and he

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Speaker 2: gets a head coach job out of that, So I

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Speaker 2: think that's what was going on. Also, you had a

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Speaker 2: healthy Jonathan Taylor running well, which is gonna help anybody.

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Speaker 2: And you know, over the past couple of years prior

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Speaker 2: to twenty to five, the quarterbacks in India hadn't necessarily

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Speaker 2: been able to count on that. So it was all

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Speaker 2: working very well together and it was believable. And then

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Speaker 2: unfortunately what happened to Daniel last year is what has

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Speaker 2: happened multiple times in his career, which is he got

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Speaker 2: hurt that.

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Speaker 1: I want to go back to you talk about Shane

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Speaker 1: a little bit. That coach quarterback connection. How hard is

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Speaker 1: that to find in the league, and like, because you

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Speaker 1: look at even some teams that have that great elite quarterback,

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Speaker 1: if they don't have that connection where the coach is

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Speaker 1: on the same page. Sure is that how you know

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Speaker 1: you get Sean McDermott losing his job, John Harbaugh leaves

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Speaker 1: the Ravens. When you have that, it seems to elevate

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Speaker 1: the level of the quarterback to potentially beyond what people

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Speaker 1: may be expected from it.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think that's probably the two most important

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Speaker 2: positions in your organization is coach and quarterback. And if

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Speaker 2: the head coach is the offense, it'sive coordinator as well

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Speaker 2: as is the case here. You know, it's more, it's

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Speaker 2: even more important. So how hard is it to find?

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Speaker 2: You know, it depends on the open mindedness of the

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Speaker 2: coach and the organization. I think Shane Steichen is the

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Speaker 2: kind of guy that's going to be like, yeah, look,

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Speaker 2: I'd love to have Patrick Mahomes right, but making not

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Speaker 2: everybody can, so like, what do we have, what's good

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Speaker 2: about and what can we what can we do with

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Speaker 2: him that can help us score points? And I think

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Speaker 2: you know, the good creative coaches, I mean, look at

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Speaker 2: look at a case like Malik Willis, right, like he

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Speaker 2: goes Green Bay, picks him up as a backup a flyer.

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Speaker 2: He ends up having to start pretty much right away

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Speaker 2: because Jordan Love got hurt in week one.

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Speaker 1: We saw it, and we saw it in week two

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Speaker 1: of the twenty twenty four season.

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Speaker 2: And he was just fantastic to watch a guy that

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Speaker 2: looks like a different guy than he was in Tennessee.

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Speaker 2: And that's because you know, Matt Lafleur and his staff went, well,

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Speaker 2: here's here's what's good, like, here's what we can do

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Speaker 2: with him? Here's what he does. Well, here's what he likes.

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Speaker 2: Let's build it around that, and you see guys really

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Speaker 2: take to it. You the Donald example is one Baker

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Speaker 2: Mayfield in Tampa. I mean that they're all over the

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Speaker 2: league right now, and I think that's a testament to

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Speaker 2: the open mindedness and creativity of some of these offensive coaches.

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Speaker 1: I think that for years it felt like teams are

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Speaker 1: chasing the next Mahomes, chasing the next Allen Jackson, those guys.

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Speaker 1: But those are one to one type players, right chasing

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Speaker 1: that middle ground of you've got a good quarterback, maybe

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Speaker 1: not an elite quarterback, but you've got that quarterback to

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Speaker 1: pair the head coach. You talked about it, that's exactly

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Speaker 1: what got Seattle. I mean their defense too, certainly, but

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Speaker 1: that's what got Seattle to the point where they could

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Speaker 1: go to the super Bowl. And you know, Donald, down

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Speaker 1: the stretch of that NFC championship made some nails throws

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Speaker 1: that clearly were the product of that relationship.

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Speaker 2: In that elevation, he was sensational. There were times when

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Speaker 2: he wasn't. I mean, he wasn't his best in the

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Speaker 2: Super Bowl, but they have the right kind of team.

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Speaker 2: So the trick there is you didn't spend fifty five

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Speaker 2: million a year to get Sam Darnold, right, so you're

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Speaker 2: not in the position that Miami is in. Right, So

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Speaker 2: you get him for thirty three million a year. That

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Speaker 2: means you can you can build your great defense. You can,

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Speaker 2: you know you can, you can build your offense out

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Speaker 2: around him. So yeah, I think that's that's the point, right,

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Speaker 2: Like you'd love to have Patrick Mahomes, Joe Burrow, Josh Allen,

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Speaker 2: like human cloning technology has not reached the point where

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Speaker 2: we're gonna get to thirty two of those guys, So

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Speaker 2: what what do you do? And I think Seattle is,

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Speaker 2: you know, every year, the team that wins the Super

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Speaker 2: Bowl is the example of everything. But in truth, like

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Speaker 2: Seattle is, they put their money where their mouth is.

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Speaker 2: Russell Wilson came to them about a contract, he wanted

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Speaker 2: more than they thought he was worth.

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Speaker 3: They traded him.

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Speaker 2: They went to Gino Smith about a contract last year,

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Speaker 2: he wanted more than they thought it was worth. They

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Speaker 2: traded him. Like they're not gonna just do it because

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Speaker 2: you're supposed to. They really believe, like, we don't want

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Speaker 2: to pay the very good quarterback great quarterback money because

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Speaker 2: that hurts our ability to build a team around him.

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Speaker 2: So if you're the Colts bringing it back to Daniel Jones, that's,

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Speaker 2: you know what, what's the number that works. I don't

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Speaker 2: think Daniel's gonna get fifty plus million dollars a year. No,

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Speaker 2: I don't know that he should. But if you're franchising him,

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Speaker 2: you're almost there. Anyway is a transition tag. So these

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Speaker 2: are the conversations that have been having at this point.

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Speaker 1: With Alec Pierce. His market. It seems like it is

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Speaker 1: just like, and I don't know if this is real

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Speaker 1: or not, it seems like he's just kind of grown

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Speaker 1: and grown and grown over the last couple of months,

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Speaker 1: as maybe people have realized, like, oh my god, this

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Speaker 1: guy's a really good player. He had the most efficient

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Speaker 1: receiving season since Mike Williams in twenty nineteen in terms

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Speaker 1: of catches and yards. Why is his market where it

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Speaker 1: is right now as we're sitting here on Wednesday, February twenty.

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Speaker 2: Fifth, Because everyone's chasing explosive plays and he's, you know,

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Speaker 2: he's what, He's led the league in yards per catch

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Speaker 2: two years in a row, right, So you got a

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Speaker 2: guy that averages twenty one twenty two yards of catch,

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Speaker 2: and you've seen him and he can get open and

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Speaker 2: he's got the speed and all that. Like people look

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Speaker 2: at that and say, he's still young, he's coming off

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Speaker 2: a very good year, but maybe he's capable of even

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Speaker 2: more than that. So and you know, you have that

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Speaker 2: explosive playability. Talk to offensive coordinators, they're trying to find

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Speaker 2: as many of those as possible. Talk the defensive coordinators,

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Speaker 2: they're obsessed with stopping them. Like that is really what

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Speaker 2: the league is about right now. The ability to score

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Speaker 2: and score quickly. And Alec Pierce is a guy that

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Speaker 2: represents an ability to do that, and I think that's

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Speaker 2: what we've seen when he's been on the field the

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Speaker 2: last couple of years.

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Speaker 1: All Right, I want to get you out of here

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Speaker 1: on this. The Colts. The whole plan for this team

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Speaker 1: is to kind of replicate that first ten games sure

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Speaker 1: of last season. If we get to this point next

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Speaker 1: year at the combine, you're sitting here at this table

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Speaker 1: with us and we're talking about, Hey, it worked. This

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Speaker 1: might seem obvious based on the discussion we've just had,

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Speaker 1: but why would it have worked? Why would that plan

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Speaker 1: have worked? A year from now.

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Speaker 2: I mean, the simple answer is probably Daniel Jones stayed healthy.

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Speaker 2: You know, he had a fully healthy season in New

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Speaker 2: York first year under Brian day Ball. That helped him

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Speaker 2: get a big contract last time around, and they went

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Speaker 2: to the playoffs, went to the second round of the playoffs.

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Speaker 2: So when he's been on the field, he's been a

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Speaker 2: pretty good player. He had turnover issues early in his career,

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Speaker 2: but those have in fact gotten better regardless of how

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Speaker 2: a reputation sticks to someone. So I would say health

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Speaker 2: and because we have seen it work. I also think,

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Speaker 2: you know, big picture Colts, I mean the defense, there

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Speaker 2: needs to be work done there.

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Speaker 3: They've talked openly about.

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Speaker 2: The need to get faster at certain positions on that

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Speaker 2: side of the ball, so they have to do that.

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Speaker 2: They can keep the offensive core together. If the offensive

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Speaker 2: line can play well again, if Jonathan Taylor can stay

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Speaker 2: healthy again, you know, this is a team that can

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Speaker 2: score points. So if you get Daniel Jones and Alec

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Speaker 2: Pierce back and it's the group you want to go

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Speaker 2: forward with on offense, and then you you know, you

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Speaker 2: find pieces for for lou Anarumo on the other side

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Speaker 2: of the ball. Yeah, I think it's you know, it

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Speaker 2: wasn't it wasn't a hot month. I mean it was

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Speaker 2: a couple like they would deep into the season. There's

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Speaker 2: perfect concept there, right, And they weren't playing you know,

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Speaker 2: the schedule the Patriots played like, I mean they were

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Speaker 2: they were you know, they were beating real teams. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: I think it's you know, that's the key, and it's

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Speaker 2: overly simplified and we it could probably say for any

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Speaker 2: team in the league, but yeah, probably.

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Speaker 1: Health right on, Dan, thanks for joining me here. We'll

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Speaker 1: look for your stuff on NFL Live, on Get Up

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Speaker 1: and on ESPN dot com. Appreciate the time. Appreciate it

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Speaker 1: more on The Colt Show. Right after this, The Colt

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Speaker 1: Show was presented by Microsoft Surface co Pilot plus pc.

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Speaker 1: Greatness in the NFL starts long before kickoff. It's built

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Speaker 1: in the quiet hours of preparation and the discipline to

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Speaker 1: turn insights into The Indianapolis Colts rely on Microsoft Surface

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Speaker 1: from the field to the front office. Microsoft Surface co

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Speaker 1: for the twenty twenty six Colts Cheer Showcase. The finalists

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Speaker 1: And now back to the Cult Show. All right, back

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Speaker 1: here on the Colt Show. It is my pleasure to

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Speaker 1: be joined from the Football three oh one podcast on Yahoo.

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Speaker 1: Nate Tice, Nate HOI you doing man.

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Speaker 3: Doing great? Thanks for having me. I excited to talk

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Speaker 3: about I'm glad you already mention it. Though we talked

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Speaker 3: about some Colts players because Colts have a weird inkling

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Speaker 3: of always taken guys I always I'm fond of in

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Speaker 3: the draft process.

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Speaker 1: So it's kind of well, you you have a history

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Speaker 1: of liking like big athletic guys. Yes, and that's kind

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Speaker 1: of where the Colts go with that.

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Speaker 3: It's a trades league.

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Speaker 1: I want to I want to ask you about just

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Speaker 1: kind of like overall trends around the league and kind

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Speaker 1: of where the Colts fit in in those. One of

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Speaker 1: the biggest trends that came out of twenty twenty five

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Speaker 1: was this this trend toward teams using three tight ends,

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Speaker 1: and the Colts did some of it with Tyler Warren,

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Speaker 1: Moiley Cox and dr Ogle Tree. The Rams kind of

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Speaker 1: pushed it forward with their guys. Explain to our listeners,

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Speaker 1: our fans are our viewers, like why teams have figured

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Speaker 1: out that putting three tight ends on the field at

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Speaker 1: the same time is something they want to do and

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Speaker 1: has made it successful for certain offenses.

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Speaker 3: Originally, or the original line thinking of that is that

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Speaker 3: you're trying to get a defense to match you with

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Speaker 3: their base personnel. So three lineback three linebackers for dbs,

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Speaker 3: really looking at how many dbs are on the field,

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Speaker 3: and so in the oddest terms, it's base or sub

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Speaker 3: and sub includes nickel, dime, anything that sub packages, and

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Speaker 3: so that is just the typical line of thinking. But

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Speaker 3: defenses have been more and more comfortable playing with light bodies,

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Speaker 3: and so you don't really get that dare of the

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Speaker 3: simple of oh they match them with basse, throw the ball,

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Speaker 3: Oh they match with sub run the ball. It's gotten

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Speaker 3: a little more complicated than that, but you still get

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Speaker 3: when you get three tight nds on the field because

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Speaker 3: of the formations you typically do with them, or the

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Speaker 3: play in formations or assume formations. Is defenses are a

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Speaker 3: lot simpler. They still do stuff, they still bled, they

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Speaker 3: do all those things, but the packages aren't as deep

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Speaker 3: because of just you don't play that against a bunch.

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Speaker 3: We play a lot more than against three receivers, so

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Speaker 3: we're gonna have more plays against three receivers. So that

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Speaker 3: is what you're kind of doing. It's kind of a

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Speaker 3: game theory type of thinking where it's like, I want

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Speaker 3: to get this the opponent to be doing something they're

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Speaker 3: not comfortable with, even if they might be good at it,

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Speaker 3: they don't do it a lot. So that's really what

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Speaker 3: it is like with the rams do in. McVeigh is

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Speaker 3: usually on the trend of all this, or ahead of

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Speaker 3: the curve of all this, is doing the three tight

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Speaker 3: end stuff. It's not just always getting into burly ball

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Speaker 3: run it down their throat formations. If you watch the

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Speaker 3: games against the Seahawks, they're spreading them out from three

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Speaker 3: tight ends right and then chucking the ball down the field,

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Speaker 3: and that's again what you're doing, because then they are

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Speaker 3: guaranteeing the quarterback for the quarterback hey against this look,

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Speaker 3: oh this coverage all right, So again talk about game

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Speaker 3: theory stuff, but like if I go three tight ends,

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Speaker 3: all right, I know the defense is gonna play maybe

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Speaker 3: one of these four coverages, and then we get into

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Speaker 3: this formation, that spread formation, and I can guarantee you

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Speaker 3: they have a check and they guarantee them that they

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Speaker 3: get to this one coverage. And if you have Matthew

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Speaker 3: Stafford who has two hundred starts, that's very nice to

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Speaker 3: have and that's why they can attack those ways. And

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Speaker 3: so that's just one example, but that's why offens want

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Speaker 3: to do because you're just trying to limit the menu

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Speaker 3: for the defenses and to get the advantage there.

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Speaker 1: So thinking about the personnel you need to do that,

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Speaker 1: it's easy to say we're gonna put three tight ends

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Speaker 1: on the field, but you need specific kinds of tight ends.

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Speaker 1: Do you need a sort of like a like a

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Speaker 1: skeleton key tight end, like a Tyler Warren who can

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Speaker 1: do every thing, who can block, who can run routes?

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Speaker 1: And then do you need like a blocking tight end

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Speaker 1: and a receiving tight end you need two blocking tight ends, like,

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Speaker 1: because this is gonna inform I think potentially what we're

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Speaker 1: thinking about with Colts free agency, where Moiley Cox and

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Speaker 1: Drorogletree two blocking forward tight ends are free agents. So

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Speaker 1: within that, like what sort of personnel do you need

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Speaker 1: to successfully operate this?

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Speaker 3: I would say you prefer to have the blocker to

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Speaker 3: actually open it all up. Okay, And it's not just

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Speaker 3: those multi tight end looks. That's just overall with an offense.

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Speaker 3: And I also think it's just that the receiving tight

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Speaker 3: end is easier to find in theory than a guy

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Speaker 3: that can truly block from in line. I know the

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Speaker 3: Colts have a couple, but most teams have none. Some

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Speaker 3: team like the Rams have four tight ends on the roster,

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Speaker 3: you know, like Higbe's always been just like a kind

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Speaker 3: of a solid blocker, but they got Kobe Parkinson, who's

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Speaker 3: a plus plus blocker. If you look at the SEAHAWKSY

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Speaker 3: did a couple of tight end stuff. They have a

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Speaker 3: J barner that can unlock some stuff. Those guys are

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Speaker 3: more of what opens it up for everybody else, and

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Speaker 3: those guys are getting valued a little bit more. You

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Speaker 3: look at Josh Oliver got paid last year for the Vikings.

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Speaker 3: John Bates got paid by Washington last year. Even the

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Speaker 3: Bills went for like the Bills for a reason went

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Speaker 3: to Jackson Hawes and who's their fifth round pick, and

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Speaker 3: they moved away from jumbo tight end because they're like, well,

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Speaker 3: now we got this guy and you can do it.

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Speaker 3: And that was an issue that the Bills have run

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Speaker 3: into is they had Dawson Knox and dont Kakaid. Neither

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Speaker 3: are a great in line as blockers. So even though

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Speaker 3: they had two tight ends, defenses are like, might as

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Speaker 3: well be receivers.

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Speaker 1: Right, you don't have to. They're they're not going to

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Speaker 1: play bass to that at all.

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Speaker 3: Correct ever, and so that's why they're, Okay, what if

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Speaker 3: we put an offens alignment out there, Well, then we

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Speaker 3: have it was great, but then we have limitations of

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Speaker 3: what we could do from there. So then they got

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Speaker 3: a true why tight end of blocking tight end of

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Speaker 3: Jackson Hawes and it was like, oh now everything else

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Speaker 3: opens up from that. So to me, if you are

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Speaker 3: going to kind of lean this way, that is it's

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Speaker 3: more and it's becoming more valued amongst coaches like that

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Speaker 3: are in teams like you see guys getting paid, and

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Speaker 3: I think, as we're trying to find it in this

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Speaker 3: tight end class actually have some interesting names as well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is where I kind of wanted to pick

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Speaker 1: your brain on this because it's something I've been interested in.

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Speaker 1: I think are our fans here are probably a little

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Speaker 1: more interested in the next thing I'm gonna ask you,

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Speaker 1: which is about Alec Pierce. Yeah, and when this episode

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Speaker 1: comes out, it's coming out on Tuesday, March third, so

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Speaker 1: we'll probably have an idea of what the Colts are

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Speaker 1: going to do or have done with Alec by then.

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Speaker 1: And I asked this to ESPN's Dan Grisiano, But like,

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Speaker 1: why is Alec Pierce such a valuable player within not

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Speaker 1: just the Colts offense, but within if you dropped him

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Speaker 1: into any NFL offense, why would it be such a

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Speaker 1: valuable player.

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Speaker 3: It's the name of the game and the name of

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Speaker 3: the NFL right now. It's exposive place. And you need

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Speaker 3: a quarterback or an offense they can generate them throwing

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Speaker 3: the ball. You need receivers that can take the top

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Speaker 3: off and truly take the top off and come down

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Speaker 3: with the football. And you need and now, to me,

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Speaker 3: I'm starting to value running backs that have more home

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Speaker 3: run speed and maybe not even uh are it's me.

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Speaker 3: I've been trying. I've been weighing this for off season.

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Speaker 3: I'm starting to to me, and I love John thea Taylor,

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Speaker 3: he might be an ideal running back for me. To me,

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Speaker 3: an ideal running back is a guy that maybe is

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Speaker 3: a four or five to five guy, but for six

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Speaker 3: guy maybe not the fastest, but just a fish and

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Speaker 3: gets singles and doubles as like I always call it

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Speaker 3: a fishing kind of runner. But to me, I'm starting

433
00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:07,480
Speaker 3: to skew two guys that I will weigh the vision

434
00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:09,600
Speaker 3: a little less and weigh the explosiveness a little more,

435
00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:12,600
Speaker 3: called the Kenneth Walker. Yeah right, right right, But like

436
00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:15,720
Speaker 3: it's because defenses are so good tackling, playing top down

437
00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:17,880
Speaker 3: now that you can get four or five yard games

438
00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:20,480
Speaker 3: a little bit easier in theory, easier now, but you

439
00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:22,640
Speaker 3: need the guys that can take fifteen twenty yards. Luckily,

440
00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:23,919
Speaker 3: the Colt type of guy that can do both so

441
00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:25,160
Speaker 3: they don't have to worry about it, but the other

442
00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:27,080
Speaker 3: things have to worry about this. But this brings back

443
00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:29,840
Speaker 3: to Piers. Is you see guys last year like too

444
00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:32,919
Speaker 3: too out well getting paid. Taekwon Thornton getting to the

445
00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:36,240
Speaker 3: Chiefs MVS was on multiple teams just because of a

446
00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:38,440
Speaker 3: simple skill set of he could block and he could

447
00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:40,400
Speaker 3: take the top off and he wasn't even very good

448
00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:42,520
Speaker 3: at it, and he was still getting paid and all

449
00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:45,919
Speaker 3: and teams trying to get him. Rashi Chi heat is

450
00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:48,439
Speaker 3: super valuable for the Seahawks especially you have to get

451
00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:51,679
Speaker 3: traded for. But Piers, to me, is not only just

452
00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:54,399
Speaker 3: that he's fast, he's also huge, and so it's not

453
00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:56,959
Speaker 3: like a two two outwell who's five nine, one sixty.

454
00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:00,399
Speaker 3: You know, he is a basketball player a volleyball He

455
00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:03,439
Speaker 3: has that skill set and so so many offenses are

456
00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:06,199
Speaker 3: craving for explosive plays and you can draw them up

457
00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:08,199
Speaker 3: and you can say, yeah, we're gonna attack deep. You

458
00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:11,000
Speaker 3: need the guy that's still a valid threat. Otherwise defenses

459
00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:12,879
Speaker 3: are just gonna go all right, fine, he's never getting

460
00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:14,680
Speaker 3: the ball, so I don't have to worry about him.

461
00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:17,919
Speaker 3: And if you're you have defenses, especially safeties now that

462
00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:20,120
Speaker 3: have to play top down, have to play two ways.

463
00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:23,199
Speaker 3: Now you're getting their eyeballs to somewhere else other than

464
00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:25,840
Speaker 3: the run. You're getting their eyeballs somewhere else other than

465
00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:27,840
Speaker 3: the high low that's happening over the middlefield, right, So

466
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:31,080
Speaker 3: it's an opener for everybody else's and Pierce is only

467
00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:32,879
Speaker 3: one of a few guys in the league that's truly

468
00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:34,920
Speaker 3: like this, and that's why I think he's getting so

469
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:36,600
Speaker 3: valuid like and that's why so many, I think so

470
00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:38,719
Speaker 3: many other teams or fans of other teams are like, oh,

471
00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:40,520
Speaker 3: we're gonna sign them. I mean, he's gonna make a

472
00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:42,000
Speaker 3: lot of money. But I think that's why the Colts

473
00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:44,199
Speaker 3: are like, well, you know, like we're trying to keep

474
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:44,719
Speaker 3: them here too.

475
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:46,600
Speaker 1: When I looked up a couple of numbers on this,

476
00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:50,320
Speaker 1: Pierce led the unfl in targets of fifteen plus yards downfield.

477
00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:53,000
Speaker 1: He had sixty one last year. And then if you

478
00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:55,040
Speaker 1: look at like some of the efficiency numbers are even

479
00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:58,840
Speaker 1: just the total numbers, it's like Alec Pierce, Pukakua, Jackson

480
00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:01,040
Speaker 1: Smith and Jigbi are all in that in terms of

481
00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:03,400
Speaker 1: the downfield stuff, in terms of the outside the numbers

482
00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:07,280
Speaker 1: throws where that's where you have to create explosives. Now

483
00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:09,800
Speaker 1: because of the way teams are playing with this too

484
00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:12,439
Speaker 1: high world that we're in so having that guy who

485
00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:16,680
Speaker 1: can unlock the explosives downfield. But then it also like

486
00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:19,600
Speaker 1: the way that Alec fits within this Colts offense. Okay, yeah,

487
00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:21,480
Speaker 1: you have the safety. You now might have to cheat

488
00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:24,000
Speaker 1: over a little bit. You have a guy who can

489
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,399
Speaker 1: control the middle of the field in Tyler Warren. Yeah,

490
00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:29,800
Speaker 1: and those two guys specifically work so well together that

491
00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:33,400
Speaker 1: it feels like if you cannot have Alec Pearson that offense,

492
00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:36,359
Speaker 1: it does limit then potentially what you're able to do

493
00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:39,080
Speaker 1: with a guy like Warren, with a guy like Michael Pittman,

494
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:41,000
Speaker 1: Josh Downs, those other guys.

495
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:44,040
Speaker 3: Everything becomes tighter. Yeah, it's just the whole everything just

496
00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:46,640
Speaker 3: feels tight. When that's a great example of just even

497
00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:48,760
Speaker 3: using Downs too. You have a Downs and Warren, they

498
00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:50,640
Speaker 3: operate over the middle. And if you have a guy

499
00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:53,119
Speaker 3: that's a valid thread on the outside of how it's

500
00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:55,919
Speaker 3: speed threat, how defenses play you, they might run more cloud,

501
00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:58,240
Speaker 3: more cover shoots to that side, and again making defense

502
00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:01,760
Speaker 3: more simplistic, but also open up up opportunities elsewhere. So

503
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:03,680
Speaker 3: that again it's just a boost effect that these types

504
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:06,040
Speaker 3: of guys have. And I think Pierce has just earned

505
00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:07,639
Speaker 3: the right to like get paid like this because his

506
00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:10,160
Speaker 3: game is improved. He's not just a one trick pony now,

507
00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:11,760
Speaker 3: he's got like maybe two tricks.

508
00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:12,320
Speaker 1: Yeah.

509
00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:14,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, but like he can actually run more of the

510
00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:17,160
Speaker 3: route treat now and it's actually uh because everyone's scared

511
00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:20,760
Speaker 3: of his speed. And also, like deep ball receiving or

512
00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:23,080
Speaker 3: deep big plays is more of a receiver stat than

513
00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:26,000
Speaker 3: a quarterback stat. It's not like Patrick Mahomes forgot how

514
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:27,760
Speaker 3: to throw the deep ball, right, just he doesn't have

515
00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:29,560
Speaker 3: tier kle He's throwing a freaking Tykwon Thornton.

516
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:33,240
Speaker 1: Now. Daniel Jones, Daniel Jones has the reputation, Yes, he

517
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:34,920
Speaker 1: had that reputation, and he comes to the Colts and

518
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:36,560
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, Alec Pierce goes and has oh,

519
00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:38,360
Speaker 1: that's this incredibly efficiency.

520
00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:41,040
Speaker 3: Yeah. And then even the guy Riley Leonard, who is

521
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:42,800
Speaker 3: the guy I was high in the draft, but then

522
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:44,960
Speaker 3: his biggest blemish was how is his deep ball?

523
00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:47,040
Speaker 1: Three plays into the Texans game, there it is.

524
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,280
Speaker 3: Pinn the grenade and launches it and it's like, and

525
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:53,159
Speaker 3: Pierce beat the defense so bad on that play he

526
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:55,000
Speaker 3: was able to wait for it and still there's nobody

527
00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:58,359
Speaker 3: within like five yards of Yeah, so again it's there's

528
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:00,800
Speaker 3: stuff they draw on paper. Oh this is gonna work,

529
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:03,040
Speaker 3: but then you need the guys to actually make it

530
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,560
Speaker 3: come alive. And Pierce now he makes it come alive.

531
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:08,080
Speaker 3: He adds more to it. And that's what good players do.

532
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 3: Like a team that always comes to mind to me

533
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:12,639
Speaker 3: that uh and it's funny because Matt h Harmon over here,

534
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:14,239
Speaker 3: I do football. Three. Well, we talked about this all

535
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:16,560
Speaker 3: the time with the Cardinals because it's just like one

536
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:18,680
Speaker 3: of these teams there, it's just so we're they're they're

537
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:21,520
Speaker 3: funny to us. But their receiving room has a lot

538
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,440
Speaker 3: of big, good players, but they don't have any deep

539
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:27,600
Speaker 3: ball guys, and so it made everything feel tight and

540
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:28,360
Speaker 3: so like, yeah.

541
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:30,720
Speaker 1: Well that's like Michael Pittman Jr. Yes, who's a big guy,

542
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:34,040
Speaker 1: but he's not necessarily that down the field vertical outside

543
00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:37,440
Speaker 1: the numbers ball winner. He's over the middle, crossing routes

544
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:38,400
Speaker 1: and right is.

545
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:40,440
Speaker 3: When Gardner Minshew is the quarterback with the Colts' is

546
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,360
Speaker 3: like that's Pittman on those RPOs breaking in and that's

547
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:45,720
Speaker 3: his skill set. Like there's and they might all be

548
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:48,320
Speaker 3: built the same, they might time similarly, but like how

549
00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:50,640
Speaker 3: these guys win. It's all in different ways, so how

550
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:52,440
Speaker 3: they can be used on you know, the x's and

551
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:54,080
Speaker 3: o's kind of just opens everything else up.

552
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:56,520
Speaker 1: What stands out to you about the way Shane Stikeen

553
00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:59,200
Speaker 1: has kind of built these different offenses in the three

554
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:01,399
Speaker 1: years he's been the head coach. You mentioned Gardner that

555
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 1: RPO heavy attack. Last year with Anthony or in twenty

556
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:07,119
Speaker 1: twenty four with Anthony it was it was run heavy,

557
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 1: chuck it deep, and then last year with Daniel it

558
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,400
Speaker 1: was to me it was putting a lot on Jones

559
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:15,840
Speaker 1: to make the right check at the line to get

560
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,000
Speaker 1: the Colts into the right play, and then within that

561
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 1: play he was gonna have someone just why you know

562
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:21,639
Speaker 1: what opened?

563
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:21,920
Speaker 3: Yeah?

564
00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:22,800
Speaker 1: On those plays.

565
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 3: Yeah.

566
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:25,080
Speaker 1: What stands out to you about Shane in the way

567
00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:26,440
Speaker 1: he kind of operates things.

568
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:29,400
Speaker 3: He because he has some North turner to him. I've

569
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:31,720
Speaker 3: always been fond of what Shane runs because it's just like,

570
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:35,479
Speaker 3: to me, it sound and it's just good football. I

571
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:38,400
Speaker 3: want to say it was the Rams game and there's

572
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,720
Speaker 3: a couple of plays in that where he hit Daniel

573
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:43,399
Speaker 3: Jones hit like a sale route, which is like a

574
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 3: deep corner route from the slot to Warren and on

575
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 3: the design of it, it was just like perfect. I

576
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 3: knew why he ran it, Like that's the thing that

577
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:52,480
Speaker 3: maybe that's a complement I could give Shane styken Is.

578
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:54,399
Speaker 3: I always do understand why they run things like I'm

579
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:56,399
Speaker 3: always like, oh yeah, I understand that design. I understand

580
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 3: why you got through that. Sometimes Anthony would maybe not

581
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:02,640
Speaker 3: execute it, and then I'd be like, what happened there?

582
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:05,320
Speaker 3: But now you get Daniel in there and you see that,

583
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:07,159
Speaker 3: you see a trigger man. I think maybe that's the

584
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:08,880
Speaker 3: best way I can But yeah, because the ball kept

585
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:10,399
Speaker 3: going to the right spot, and that's more of a

586
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:13,440
Speaker 3: thing to stich in. I think that how Stichen wants

587
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 3: to design football plays is exactly what you want in

588
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,280
Speaker 3: the NFL right now, because he wants to attack down

589
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 3: the field and if not, then if you attack down

590
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:22,360
Speaker 3: the field opens things up. Then you run the ball.

591
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,160
Speaker 3: I thought Tony Sprownold Junior. I believe it was offensive

592
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 3: line coach. I thought the old line for at least

593
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 3: most of this year played great. I thought they had

594
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 3: good game plans, and I thought the run game was

595
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 3: complimentary to what they were trying to do passing wise.

596
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:36,040
Speaker 3: So it's just good game planning. And I think his

597
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 3: core concepts, which is a lot of downfield stuff, is

598
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,360
Speaker 3: just always gonna be valid. I thought the Gardner Minshew

599
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 3: offense was probably the most atypical okay offense as opposed

600
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:48,200
Speaker 3: to what which is funny because that was the first year,

601
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 3: right if I believe, if I'm right, And but it

602
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,639
Speaker 3: was cool because all right, you see teams, all right,

603
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:55,680
Speaker 3: we're gonna run a bunch RPOs. We're gonna run buch RPOs.

604
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:57,600
Speaker 3: We're gonna spam the same run play with it. They

605
00:25:57,640 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 3: would get into formations, especially in the red zone, and

606
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 3: do five different versions of RPOs, like so the same formation,

607
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 3: same run, but they just tagged it one thing differently, right,

608
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:07,480
Speaker 3: And again that sounds so simple. It's like, okay, anyone

609
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 3: can do that, but it's like, then why doesn't everyone

610
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:10,520
Speaker 3: do it? And I always just thought that was like

611
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 3: that takes thoughtfulness, That takes like, hey, we have to

612
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:14,119
Speaker 3: all right, if we're gonna live in this world, we

613
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,400
Speaker 3: have to have a menu. So maybe that's a good

614
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 3: way to put stykeens. He can always build a menu

615
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 3: off with the guys. I've always been I've always just

616
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 3: really liked what Shane Styken has done, whether it was

617
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 3: in Philly or now in Indianapolis, because again, it just

618
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 3: makes sense to me.

619
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:27,840
Speaker 1: You can tell me if this doesn't make sense or

620
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:29,639
Speaker 1: does make sense, but it's something I've thought about. Of

621
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 1: the Shanahan McVeagh tree has been so picked over, Like

622
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 1: the proliferation of that around the league, it's hard to

623
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:43,480
Speaker 1: find those guys now, and defenses have adapted to that

624
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 1: scheme now that has kind of become the trend in

625
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 1: the league is having a coach who doesn't come from

626
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 1: that tree. I mean, I think about Ben Johnson in Chicago,

627
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 1: who does not come from that tree, kind of comes

628
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 1: in the Sean Payton tree. Is having a coach who

629
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 1: comes from the North Turner tree who's good at it.

630
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:02,880
Speaker 1: By the way, is that an advantage that teams could

631
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:06,679
Speaker 1: have in building out an offense to combat some of

632
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,679
Speaker 1: these defenses that are potentially built to stop the Shanahan

633
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:10,199
Speaker 1: McVeigh s.

634
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 3: Geme yes, because this is again I think Champagne Ben

635
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:16,640
Speaker 3: Johnson offense, and I could stich with this. It's most

636
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 3: like kind of air coriol But it's like to me,

637
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 3: it's traditional NFL offense that's how I picture it in

638
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,120
Speaker 3: Shanahan to me is the newer. It's funny how would

639
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 3: these things change and when you've been around it for

640
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 3: a while, But I yes, I think my short answer

641
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:34,320
Speaker 3: is that this is where this is where the advantages

642
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:37,119
Speaker 3: is to attack this way because how they don't run

643
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:38,400
Speaker 3: a lot of quick game. I know, we just talked

644
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 3: about the RPO stuff. That's a different kind of thing.

645
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:43,719
Speaker 3: But how they attack everything's downfield, how they use chips,

646
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:46,200
Speaker 3: how they use check downs, how their play action concepts

647
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 3: are just slightly different than Shanahan stuff. And like the

648
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 3: Shannon offense lived off bootlegs, but then defense is adapted

649
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 3: and started teeing off on boot legs.

650
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 1: Yep.

651
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 3: All right, well okay, so we don't go away from that.

652
00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 3: So we're gonna do half role now play action stuff.

653
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,160
Speaker 3: Well that's what North Turn Shane Styck can do anyway. Yeah,

654
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 3: it's kind of like what you because that's the meta

655
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 3: was that the Shanahan offenses. So you're gonna adapt to

656
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 3: the meta defenses are you look at how McDonald played

657
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,919
Speaker 3: with Seattle, how Jesse Minter was with the Chargers. Some

658
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:15,920
Speaker 3: of these really good coordinators. You can tell they are

659
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:18,440
Speaker 3: trying to stop outside zone. That's why they play two

660
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 3: ice safety. Then you get the added additional defender to

661
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 3: defend those runs. But the North Turner way, the Sean

662
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:29,160
Speaker 3: Payton way, they prefer duo, They prefer atch you runs,

663
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:31,480
Speaker 3: and then they prefer the play action concepts off of

664
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 3: those at you runs. And that's what's funny is McVeigh,

665
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 3: who is a Shanahan guy, runs more basically Sean Payton

666
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 3: North Turner stuff. Yeah, then you probably run Shanahan stuff

667
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 3: these days because that's defenses are lighter, They're the front

668
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 3: set just physically lighter. And also offenses are getting bigger,

669
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 3: and it's just a physics thing like but these offenses,

670
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 3: what their fastballs are, what their kind of staples are,

671
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 3: it just matches to what defenses are doing nowadays. It's

672
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 3: kind of yeah, very NFL. It was almost like two

673
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 3: thousand and six ish right now. Yes, with the scheme,

674
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 3: which is pretty funny.

675
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 1: I was the thing I was thinking about was, you know,

676
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 1: in the mid tens, the trend was the kind of

677
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 1: Hawk three, you know, cover a ton of cover three,

678
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 1: cover three, and then the Shanahan McVay scheme kind of

679
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 1: evolved to shred it and break their rules. And then

680
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 1: you had this sort of like I remember I used

681
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 1: to cover the Bears and that twenty eighteen Sunday night

682
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 1: football game where Vic Fangio came in. They picked off

683
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 1: Jared Goff four times. And I had this running bit

684
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 1: with Vic that year where like, oh, does defense really matter?

685
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 1: And after that game he comes into his press conference

686
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 1: and it looks at me and goes, hey, I think

687
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 1: defense matters. But then then you had this scheme that

688
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 1: kind of adapted to stop that scheme, and now that

689
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 1: too high scheme is sort of the way things are

690
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 1: right now, and now you have these other schemes that

691
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 1: are coming into to try to stop that. It's so interesting,

692
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:54,960
Speaker 1: just this evolution and how you wind up on the

693
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 1: cutting edge of something a year and a year later

694
00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 1: and it's like, well, okay, now they to stop that

695
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 1: next page.

696
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 3: And these defenses that want to live in a quarters

697
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:07,480
Speaker 3: shell and they rotate from that. It's not that they

698
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:09,120
Speaker 3: always end up in cover for but how they just

699
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:12,400
Speaker 3: are based out of they're like, especially like the Seahawks,

700
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 3: they are so aggressive and so top down and so

701
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 3: a tune in tune with how often does want to

702
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 3: attack them? That the way to beat them is you gotta,

703
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 3: like I say, lean into the punch like like a boxer,

704
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 3: Like I gotta stand there and throw it deep. And

705
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 3: it's like it's not always gonna work. Like you can

706
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 3: see for the Patriots, they couldn't even block it, so

707
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 3: you couldn't. That's the thing you have to block it

708
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 3: to That's oh go that discussion too. That's what also

709
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 3: the Ben Johnson, Sean Payton, and North Turner trees do

710
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 3: as well as they put more onus on the quarterback

711
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 3: to sort some stuff out. Yes, well, the Shanahan guys

712
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 3: they put it all in the center and.

713
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 1: That's where Daniel Jones succeeded in sorting that stuff.

714
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 3: Out because now he knows like it's like he's confirming

715
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,960
Speaker 3: in his brain. And I've been in both worlds. To me,

716
00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:00,080
Speaker 3: it's I I like to have the center get everything

717
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 3: set and then the quarterback can put the trump card.

718
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 3: That's how I've just preferred football. But you need a

719
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 3: quarterback that you could trust to do that. You hopefully

720
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 3: a duke grad that's played a lot of games. You're like, I,

721
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 3: it's not you, no, But that is another thing is

722
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 3: that defense has got really good making these offenses throw hot.

723
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 3: The Shanahan offenses just go, well, you don't have to

724
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 3: worry about sorting it out. You just have to find

725
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 3: the hot if you feel heat it up. And well,

726
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 3: if you watch these forty nine ers Chief Super Bowl

727
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 3: the second one, Spags knew that and just kept blitzing

728
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 3: them and making perty throw hot, and they teed off

729
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 3: on them some big plays. So I think that that sorting.

730
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 3: My dad, it was a lot of time offensive line coach.

731
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 3: That's what he would always say, is like we sorted

732
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 3: out and then we gash them. Once in a while

733
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 3: they'll gash us, but that's that's. Hey, they get the

734
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 3: one sack and we hopefully get four explosives off of it,

735
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 3: and then they get out of those looks. So like

736
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 3: even that's that's another thing that not maybe where offense

737
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 3: this has always been around, but maybe that's what it

738
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 3: is too, is just letting the quarterbacks have that final

739
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 3: trump card, taking the set this out. We can go longer,

740
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 3: longer this. But this is also the why you don't

741
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 3: want a motion because you can't start things out with

742
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 3: the motion and everything because that becomes a bounce and

743
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 3: Shanahan guys love a lot of emotions. That comes part

744
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 3: of it. But it's one of those things too where

745
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 3: I'm curious if more teams start putting more on the

746
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 3: quarterback to hey, just have the final check on some stuff,

747
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 3: because there's only a handful that do it right now.

748
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 3: I'm curious to see this next generation kind of get

749
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 3: that capability.

750
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 1: All right, Before I get you out here, Nate, I

751
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 1: do want to ask you about Sauce Gardner because we

752
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 1: hear in Indie saw like a game or two of him.

753
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 1: This is the guy who became the highest paid cornerback

754
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:31,719
Speaker 1: in the NFL last summer, and everyone was just kind

755
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 1: of like, yeah, it makes sense. What about his play

756
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 1: style unlocks certain ways defenses can play and you know

757
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 1: what you know, and Arumo likes to do, like what

758
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 1: do you think a whole year of Sauce can do

759
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 1: for a lou Amo defense?

760
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 3: True true lockdown stuff where you can like Luinarumo, why

761
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 3: he's laying with lou and Arumo why he kind of

762
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 3: got some respect when he was with the Bengals especially

763
00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 3: was that the late down stuff, so third and fourth

764
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 3: down looks his game plan stuff. Like him in the

765
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,360
Speaker 3: playoffs is like it's a sight to behold because it's

766
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 3: like he's up there with one of the better game planners,

767
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 3: you know, game playing coaches out there. So when you

768
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 3: get a guy like Sauce that can legit hold up

769
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 3: one on one over and over again, then you can

770
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 3: get into the funky stuff. Then you can get into

771
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 3: exotic looks. Then you can play. I can go into

772
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 3: man coverage if I want to throw man coverage out there,

773
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 3: I can do quarters or cover three. But I can

774
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 3: just now have to worry about shading anything to his side.

775
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 3: If you want to get to funk your looks, you

776
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 3: can kind of use him and funk your looks as well.

777
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 3: So that's what a lockdown corner does. And he is

778
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:37,680
Speaker 3: one of those guys. He got paid for a reason.

779
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 3: He's kind of to me one with outparachelon you know him,

780
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 3: Derek Stanley. PS. Two and I wind my banking on

781
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 3: the fourth. There's a fourth guy there, and I know.

782
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 1: His name Witherspoon.

783
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 3: Was Spoon pretty good too?

784
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 1: Yeah?

785
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 3: No, God, there's kind of like so PS. Two is

786
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 3: stingly they say Stingley, Sauce PS two Stingley, and there's

787
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 3: one more. Now I'm blaking. Oh, quel On, Mitchell que Mitchelleah,

788
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 3: there's another one, but he's to me, he's in that tier.

789
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 3: So it's called top five. Uh, there's not a lot

790
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 3: of guys that can You're gonna get beat every once

791
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:08,439
Speaker 3: in a while, but there's not a lot of guys

792
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,479
Speaker 3: that can do what he does for sixty snaps and.

793
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:12,879
Speaker 1: The ninety snaps in the case.

794
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, the Colt and the Colts have desperately needed a

795
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 3: corner like the flashes of Juju Brent's it was like

796
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:24,799
Speaker 3: that wasn't enough, but like the Colts have needed a

797
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 3: real dude there. And I understood, especially how the AFC

798
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 3: was last year. I understood, hey taking a shot, especially

799
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,840
Speaker 3: how things were going for Indianapolis at the time, and

800
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:35,799
Speaker 3: after that was Murphy's Law, and it's just like that's

801
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 3: the NFL is a cruel mistress. Yeah, but there's not

802
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 3: a lot of guys out there, Like I'm just struggling

803
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:42,319
Speaker 3: to name apparechel On guys right now. There's a lot

804
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 3: of Tier two guys, but saus is one of the

805
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 3: rare kind of Tier one corners. And so that's why

806
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:48,480
Speaker 3: he gets paid like that, That's why he gets traded

807
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 3: like that because There's only so many guys that can do.

808
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:52,320
Speaker 1: This right on all right? Nate Tice from the Football

809
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 1: three to one podcast to Yahoo Podcast. I'm a loyal

810
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:57,799
Speaker 1: listener of it. I appreciate the Simpsons references that you

811
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,160
Speaker 1: you sprinkling in there, but also great way to to

812
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,720
Speaker 1: learn more about football and the trends around the NFL

813
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,719
Speaker 1: and how things are working around the league. Night Tice,

814
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:07,400
Speaker 1: thank you for joining me here on the podcast. Appreciate it,

815
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:10,080
Speaker 1: Thanks for it is my pleasure to be joined here

816
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 1: on The Colt Show by Benjamin Solac from ESPN. Benjamin

817
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:14,839
Speaker 1: thinks of the time. Man, absolutely good to be here.

818
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:19,239
Speaker 1: So this episode's coming out March third, so we'll have

819
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 1: some answers on Colts free agents by then, potentially Daniel

820
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 1: Jones Alec Pierce. I've asked this question to a couple

821
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:28,320
Speaker 1: of people, but like, let's start with Alec Pierce. Yeah,

822
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,759
Speaker 1: why is he such a valuable football player in the

823
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,239
Speaker 1: year twenty twenty six? What about his profile the way

824
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 1: he plays would make his market be as robust as

825
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 1: I think some people think it could be?

826
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:39,759
Speaker 3: So good?

827
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 4: Dude, I love him so much that I love him

828
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:43,400
Speaker 4: out of Cincinnati. So they led the league in your

829
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 4: arsper target, ars per reception and in explosive receptions, right right,

830
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:49,720
Speaker 4: all because he led the league in area arsper target.

831
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 4: Among high volume receivers, there's nobodyho gets targeted more down

832
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,239
Speaker 4: the field than Alec Pierce does. Now, when we think

833
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 4: about downfield receivers, very often we are thinking about Deshaun

834
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:00,880
Speaker 4: Jackson's right. Where it's okay saying you're getting a ton

835
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:02,479
Speaker 4: of speed, but you're paying for it in terms of size.

836
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:04,839
Speaker 4: And so these are players who can be moved off

837
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:07,000
Speaker 4: the line of scrimmagers, they can be bullied, they can't block.

838
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:10,360
Speaker 4: In the running games there are limited usage. Alex Pierce

839
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 4: is huge, and he blocks, and he's high effort, right,

840
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:14,480
Speaker 4: and so it is a lot harder to remove him

841
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:18,279
Speaker 4: structurally defensively, and you have to do less offensively to

842
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 4: scheme around him. Right, So he gives you explosive play

843
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 4: without giving you the cost that like a two to

844
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 4: two at well loses for you. Where he has this

845
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:26,880
Speaker 4: this this downfield ability, he also now he's done this

846
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:28,719
Speaker 4: for multiple seasons. This is the thing about Pierce's driving

847
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 4: me crazy. Was like, man, that's twenty twenty five, Man

848
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 4: twenty twenty four he was leaving the league. In you

849
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 4: yards per target, your arts perception areas per target. The

850
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:36,959
Speaker 4: offense and passing game in general was not as good,

851
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:39,440
Speaker 4: and so the overall production was not as good. But

852
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 4: for multiple years now Pierce has been a high volume player.

853
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 4: Right he does not leave the field. He's impactful in

854
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:46,799
Speaker 4: the running game, who creates highly explosive plays down the field.

855
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 4: He does it with speed. He also does it with

856
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 4: the ball track with the elevation because he's strong, he's

857
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 4: at the volleyball background. He's got unbelievably strong hands. Like

858
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:55,400
Speaker 4: this is in the modern NFL where we chase explosives.

859
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 4: This is the dude. There's a question about can he run.

860
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:00,040
Speaker 4: You know, somemall routes you at a very limit. The

861
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:01,720
Speaker 4: route treat with the colts that I think will affect

862
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:03,840
Speaker 4: some teams, But in general, this is a guy that

863
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 4: teams are gonna come it for sure.

864
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 1: But it's that outside the numbers, vertical ball winning ability

865
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:11,399
Speaker 1: that in today's NFL where you're playing these two high

866
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:14,279
Speaker 1: shelves and everything's getting rotated, and you know, you don't

867
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 1: know what you're looking at. If you've got a guy

868
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:17,200
Speaker 1: who can just go one on one win on the

869
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:21,440
Speaker 1: outside deep. That is how you can consistently create explosives

870
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:23,319
Speaker 1: in a way that you can't necessarily scheme it up.

871
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 1: It's just like, yeah, go chuck it up to Alex.

872
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:25,919
Speaker 1: He's gonna go make a play.

873
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:27,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, and he right, he has that ability outside the

874
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:30,319
Speaker 4: numbers above the rim. It's contested, but also a lot

875
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 4: of his production if you if you see another in

876
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:34,960
Speaker 4: these condensed sets, and he's able to get you know,

877
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 4: leverage on the corner. He's got inside leverage. He just

878
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:38,359
Speaker 4: runs that post down the field. And that's the thing.

879
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 4: Like people don't talk about Pierce this way because out

880
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:42,359
Speaker 4: Pierce is a white boy. But he runs a true

881
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:43,880
Speaker 4: four to four right, He's a four to four to

882
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:45,800
Speaker 4: one out of Cincinnati, right, and he's got a forty

883
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 4: inch vert Like this is not a you know all

884
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 4: you know Mike Evans trot down the field and box

885
00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 4: out guy. No, he will run by you. And a

886
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:54,480
Speaker 4: lot of corners have experienced him running by them, so

887
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 4: they don't respect the speeding, the elevation ability, and so

888
00:37:57,440 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 4: there he is. He has the full menu you could

889
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,200
Speaker 4: ask for from a downfield threat receiver. He runs hiss

890
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:03,880
Speaker 4: in breaking routes where he was used more on Diggs

891
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:05,360
Speaker 4: this year, and that's a big part of his menu.

892
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 4: If we could, like Alec Pierce's is to me, like

893
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 4: I believe this very strongly, he's like ninety percent of

894
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,399
Speaker 4: a Nico Collins, ninety percent of George Pagans in terms

895
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:15,320
Speaker 4: of that caliber player. He needs to run more slants.

896
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:17,040
Speaker 4: He needs to run more quick breaking stuff, the third

897
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:18,759
Speaker 4: and four stuff that just they never asked him because

898
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:20,439
Speaker 4: they had Pittman and they had downs. If you knew

899
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 4: he could do that, he'd be or to be banged

900
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:24,919
Speaker 4: that caliber player, you know, mid you know, like twenty

901
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 4: five million per year sort of contract like Nico got.

902
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 4: And I think he's still gonna get that because teams

903
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:29,839
Speaker 4: are gonna assume that they can get him there.

904
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 1: I mean, one of my favorite catches he out all

905
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 1: year was the third and six against Denver where he

906
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:36,279
Speaker 1: just he was up on Certan, gets inside leverage, He

907
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:39,319
Speaker 1: runs away from Sir Tan across the field, Daniel Jones

908
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:40,880
Speaker 1: hits him on a seven yard game, picks up a

909
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:42,960
Speaker 1: first down. It sets up, yeah, the chaos that was

910
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 1: the end of that football game. But he could do

911
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:48,400
Speaker 1: that he has the ability to run those routes crisply

912
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:50,399
Speaker 1: and get himself open enough to make a play.

913
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:52,160
Speaker 4: I think he's seven targets on slant routs this year,

914
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:53,799
Speaker 4: which for a player who does doesn't leave the field

915
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:56,800
Speaker 4: like he does, is like truly and absurdly low number.

916
00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:58,399
Speaker 4: But it's just when you have Pittman and you have Downs,

917
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:00,360
Speaker 4: you have two of the best right quick breaking players

918
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:01,759
Speaker 4: and football, you just don't need him to do that.

919
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's talk about Daniel Jones. What was give me

920
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 1: a difference between twenty twenty two Daniel Jones and the

921
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:12,000
Speaker 1: way that the offense was designed for Daniel Jones in

922
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:14,840
Speaker 1: twenty two versus twenty twenty five Daniel Jones. Because I

923
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:17,360
Speaker 1: think whatever the contract looks like for him, if it

924
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 1: gets done with the Colts, which again maybe it has

925
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,359
Speaker 1: by now, people are gonna look back and say, well,

926
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:23,840
Speaker 1: the Giants aired in giving him that contract in twenty

927
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:26,839
Speaker 1: twenty two. What's different about Daniel Jones in twenty twenty

928
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 1: five That maybe lends itself to more sustainability over the

929
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:31,240
Speaker 1: course of whatever contract he winds up getting.

930
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 4: He throws the ball more aggressively, right, I mean twenty

931
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 4: twenty two is a lot of RBL was a lot

932
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:36,640
Speaker 4: of quarterback run. It was a lot of you know,

933
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:38,560
Speaker 4: we're gonna try to be a little bit more mistake free,

934
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:40,520
Speaker 4: and then when we throw the football, it's just like

935
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:42,440
Speaker 4: one to one alert and we're gonna throw it, you know,

936
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:45,799
Speaker 4: for like fifty opportunities and for these downfield verticals. The

937
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:48,840
Speaker 4: Colts and Psychon really immediately got him able to, you know,

938
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 4: throw the dig between layers of cabridge, try throw the

939
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:53,279
Speaker 4: post over the top of safeties, which I don't. It's

940
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:56,319
Speaker 4: not like Jones was a particularly high interception player in

941
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:57,840
Speaker 4: the past, so it's not like he was afraid of

942
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:00,359
Speaker 4: throwing into coverage. But he just I feel like, really

943
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:02,880
Speaker 4: wanted to see it first and wanted it to be

944
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 4: open open, or wanted it to be like the only

945
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:06,880
Speaker 4: option on a play, whereas with the Colts, he was

946
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 4: just like, oh no, I shoot right, like I'm an

947
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:12,120
Speaker 4: aggressive quarterback. I pushed the football. I attack the windows

948
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 4: and zones in a way that we hadn't seen from

949
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:15,720
Speaker 4: him with the Giants. So whatever it was that unlocked

950
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 4: him there. What that allows you to do is it

951
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:20,360
Speaker 4: allows you to have seven place scoring drives instead of

952
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 4: eleven play scoring drives, and that means that for a

953
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 4: guy who is going to take some sacks and is

954
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:26,920
Speaker 4: going to fumble the football and he takes some sacks,

955
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:30,400
Speaker 4: you don't need to have perfect plays for eleven plays

956
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 4: and order to get the ball down the field. You

957
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:33,400
Speaker 4: can actually do it a little bit faster. So it

958
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:36,399
Speaker 4: protects Jones from the worst version of himself, because while

959
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:38,560
Speaker 4: he probably will always be a high sack rate quarterback,

960
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:40,759
Speaker 4: if you can pay that off with more explosive gains

961
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 4: and you can still get quick scoring drives and put

962
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:44,239
Speaker 4: points on the board fast, so those sacks aren't nearly

963
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:46,400
Speaker 4: as debilitating when they actually do come to fast.

964
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:48,840
Speaker 1: One thing I looked at was between the numbers on

965
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:51,880
Speaker 1: intermediate throws. In twenty twenty two with the Giants, he

966
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 1: threw five picks and a one touchdown. They do it yeah.

967
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 1: With the Colts in twenty twenty five, he threw five

968
00:40:58,080 --> 00:40:59,359
Speaker 1: touchdowns in one pick. Yep.

969
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 4: I mean, the the Brian Dable offense when they first

970
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 4: arrived was extremely collegiate. It was very we spread, we

971
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 4: go rp out and we throw stuff outbreaking because it's

972
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:09,879
Speaker 4: away from leverage. It's away from the linebackers. We can

973
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:11,640
Speaker 4: just read one guy. If he steps in, we throw

974
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:13,719
Speaker 4: an outbreaking if he steps out, we hand the football off.

975
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:16,959
Speaker 4: It was very, very use the fifty three and a third,

976
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:18,879
Speaker 4: whereas Shane was basically just like, no, like, I run

977
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 4: my stuff right like, we're going to you know, get

978
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 4: routs flying down the field where and you get guys

979
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 4: in the and I we're gonna get crossing patterns and

980
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 4: we're gonna be willing to throw those things. It was

981
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:28,400
Speaker 4: much more so big boy throws relative to what he

982
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:29,799
Speaker 4: did with the Giants. I brought this up to Nate

983
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:32,200
Speaker 4: Tice on this podcast too, but a big fan. Well

984
00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 4: obviously cool guy, Yeah, cool guy.

985
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:39,719
Speaker 1: The proliferation of the McVeigh Shanahan Kubiak we'll put it

986
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:42,840
Speaker 1: in the Kubiak umbrella. The proliferation of that scheme around

987
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:46,600
Speaker 1: the league has led defenses to work to stop that

988
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:48,520
Speaker 1: scheme specifically. It's kind of like when there was the

989
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 1: Hawk three and then the Kubiak system comes in to

990
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:54,400
Speaker 1: try to break that system, which it then did. The

991
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:58,280
Speaker 1: Colts don't have a guy off of that Kubiak free.

992
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:00,200
Speaker 1: They have a guy under a completely different umbrella with

993
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 1: North Turner. You saw the success that like the Lions

994
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:05,759
Speaker 1: had and then the Bears head with Ben Johnson who

995
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:08,880
Speaker 1: comes from the Sean Payton tree, a different tree. Is

996
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:12,080
Speaker 1: their value in having a guy in Shane Steichen who

997
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:14,960
Speaker 1: comes from a different tree and he's got to be

998
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:17,319
Speaker 1: good at it. It can't just be like any old guy, ye,

999
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:19,319
Speaker 1: but having a guy who's successful, who is a good

1000
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:21,640
Speaker 1: offensive mind coming from a different tree. With the way

1001
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 1: the league has trended toward playing.

1002
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:26,759
Speaker 4: Defenses one hundred percent unbelievably yes, right, especially because we're

1003
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 4: not in year two of mcveashna and we're you're nine

1004
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 4: of mcvashannahan. So the fruits of the tree now are

1005
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:34,000
Speaker 4: you know, several branches you know passed?

1006
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:34,239
Speaker 1: Right?

1007
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:36,920
Speaker 4: This is you're not hiring Matt Laflour and Kevin O'Connor

1008
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:40,480
Speaker 4: and O'Connell anymore. You're hiring Mike Lafloor, right, Which that's

1009
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 4: like an unnecessary dig at Mike and apolotics like, but

1010
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:44,360
Speaker 4: it's the sense of, you know, we've already picked some

1011
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 4: of the best fruits off this tree, some of the

1012
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:49,480
Speaker 4: most closely related guys to the original DNA of the offense.

1013
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:51,800
Speaker 4: Now we're kind of getting the office coordinator, who was

1014
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:53,880
Speaker 4: the offense cordinator, who was the office coinator. Four you know,

1015
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:57,719
Speaker 4: you know, four generations removed. Also because the mcvasha anhan

1016
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:00,040
Speaker 4: system is not just so proliferated, but is so so

1017
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:02,000
Speaker 4: you know, obvious terms of what it does is it's

1018
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:03,560
Speaker 4: very easy to graft some of that stuff. Like you

1019
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 4: were talking about intermediate middle, A lot of how Shane

1020
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:09,280
Speaker 4: throws intermediate middle is stuff that we would call mcvashanahan stuff.

1021
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 4: Right then one of the things they do best is

1022
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:12,520
Speaker 4: thrown to that area of the field. It's not inherent

1023
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:13,759
Speaker 4: for them, it doesn't belong to them. They're not the

1024
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:16,239
Speaker 4: guys who invented it, but they really popularized how to

1025
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 4: use under center play action, how to use presp motion

1026
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:21,320
Speaker 4: to really leverage those spots open. That's not hard stuff

1027
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 4: to draft into your system and go. And so when

1028
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:25,719
Speaker 4: you have a guy who does it wasn't boring in

1029
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:27,359
Speaker 4: the system, but can take some of the best stuff

1030
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:29,239
Speaker 4: from the system put it into his offense, he brings

1031
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:31,080
Speaker 4: a different perspective to it, a different thought to it.

1032
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:33,279
Speaker 4: And so the tendencies aren't nearly is there. The first

1033
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:34,880
Speaker 4: thing that comes to mind when you ask that question,

1034
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:38,200
Speaker 4: is how Shanahan at times runs into big pass protection

1035
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:41,279
Speaker 4: problems because his rules are pretty well known right now

1036
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:42,880
Speaker 4: by the defensive coordinators who like to blitz and they like

1037
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:44,200
Speaker 4: to send pressure, and they know how to get old

1038
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:45,400
Speaker 4: guy on the back, you know, get a one on

1039
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:49,160
Speaker 4: one some of these dropback situations. Well, Shane, just the

1040
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 4: language for protections, le don'tone. How they teach protections is

1041
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:54,440
Speaker 4: completely different than Kyle's, right, coming from the West coasts,

1042
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:56,359
Speaker 4: coming from north Like, it's just gonna be called something

1043
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:57,920
Speaker 4: different in the playbook, but it's also gonna be a

1044
00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:00,360
Speaker 4: whole different philosophy to it. So you might run in

1045
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:03,080
Speaker 4: some Kyle and McVeigh stuff, but if you're protecting it different,

1046
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 4: it's gonna be harder for the Brian flores Is and

1047
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:06,400
Speaker 4: the Mike McDonald's of the world, who have like solved

1048
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 4: a lot of those protections to be like, oh, shoot,

1049
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:09,879
Speaker 4: you know, this is how we would usually get after

1050
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 4: this when we were playing Kyle, when we were playing Sean,

1051
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:13,160
Speaker 4: but we can't do it against Shane. He protects it

1052
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:16,360
Speaker 4: a little bit different. So one hundred percent, you know

1053
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:19,000
Speaker 4: the way that we oftentimes default right like this, this

1054
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:21,120
Speaker 4: draft cycle, that are going to me this head coaching

1055
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 4: cycle the moment it opened up. But who everybody all,

1056
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:25,720
Speaker 4: we're all gonna hire Nate shieldhas from the RAMS. It's like, okay,

1057
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:27,439
Speaker 4: like I'm sure he's awesome, but like, are we gonna

1058
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:29,920
Speaker 4: do this again? Like there's there are other really good

1059
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:31,879
Speaker 4: of its coaches from other systems, and having one who,

1060
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:34,439
Speaker 4: like you say, is legitimately good is an advantage for sure.

1061
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:36,759
Speaker 1: So what do you like about the way Shane Stike

1062
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:39,839
Speaker 1: and Daniel Jones kind of bonded together last year?

1063
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:43,319
Speaker 4: I think Shane's spectacular. I think he's so so, so good.

1064
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:45,239
Speaker 4: I think there are very few guys in the league

1065
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:47,279
Speaker 4: whose sequence plays the way that Sean that Shane does,

1066
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:49,840
Speaker 4: and calls plays situationally the way that Shane does. Shane

1067
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:52,200
Speaker 4: just always has every game he walks in with like

1068
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:53,880
Speaker 4: three or four third and long calls that are just

1069
00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:56,320
Speaker 4: sick that they always open up. I don't know, like

1070
00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:57,719
Speaker 4: you know, and you don't know from the outside what

1071
00:44:57,719 --> 00:44:58,799
Speaker 4: it is, like, how does you know what the cover

1072
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:00,000
Speaker 4: is gonna be? How they know they want to target?

1073
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:02,400
Speaker 4: But just it's very clear him and then I would say,

1074
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:04,719
Speaker 4: like you have the target, your Jim Bob Cooters and

1075
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:06,960
Speaker 4: your your cam turners and your passing game coordinators. Team,

1076
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:09,480
Speaker 4: I can't remembering thank you, you know, because that's clearly

1077
00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:11,160
Speaker 4: a staff effort, right, that's the sort of thing that

1078
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:13,840
Speaker 4: gets done collectively as a group. But they always have

1079
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:15,680
Speaker 4: really great situational calls. And then like I said, in

1080
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 4: terms of packaging plays, you know, going back to even

1081
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:19,719
Speaker 4: the Philly days, Shane was so good at just like

1082
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:21,920
Speaker 4: I called this basically I called this base play, call

1083
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:23,880
Speaker 4: us pace play and then having the exact fuel for

1084
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:26,200
Speaker 4: went okay, now I call the changeup because now they're

1085
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:27,880
Speaker 4: going to overreact. One of the things that's made McVeigh

1086
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:29,920
Speaker 4: so very good in his career and Shane to me

1087
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:32,759
Speaker 4: has something very very similar. Like the other thing I

1088
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:34,920
Speaker 4: said about Daniel was the fact that he was more aggressive.

1089
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:38,880
Speaker 4: And I think that one of the big challenges and

1090
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:42,560
Speaker 4: big successes of our current quarterback coach landscape is you

1091
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:44,320
Speaker 4: have a lot of these reclamation projects. You have a

1092
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:45,719
Speaker 4: lot of these guys who are coming and they were

1093
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:47,439
Speaker 4: had a big contract, they didn't have a big contract,

1094
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 4: they were unuccessful their last spot, and you have to

1095
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:51,280
Speaker 4: figure out how to get that guy to be confident

1096
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:54,480
Speaker 4: in his own ability without being too aggressive. Right, you

1097
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:55,800
Speaker 4: have to be able to say, hey, run the offense.

1098
00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:57,239
Speaker 4: If you throw a pick, you're not gonna lose your job.

1099
00:45:57,239 --> 00:45:58,880
Speaker 4: If you take a sack, you're not going to get benched.

1100
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 4: But like, you know, don't bet use I here still

1101
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:02,279
Speaker 4: need to like you know, you're still gonna be more

1102
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:03,600
Speaker 4: of a point guard for us as opposed like the

1103
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:05,440
Speaker 4: Patrick Mahomes and the Josh Allens of the world. And

1104
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:08,040
Speaker 4: he with Daniel immediately Bank got it right, Like that's

1105
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:10,600
Speaker 4: something that like the Bucks and Baker are still figuring out,

1106
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 4: you know, in terms of like how much do you

1107
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:13,719
Speaker 4: let the Bronco Buck? How much you just kind of

1108
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 4: a quarterback this offense. Daniel immediately walked in, knew where

1109
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 4: his bread was buttered, knew when it was time to

1110
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 4: you know, uncork a big throw and neew it was

1111
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:21,680
Speaker 4: time to say, hey, Jonathan Taylor, like, go win the

1112
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:25,719
Speaker 4: game twenty eight times. They Shane's such a good manager

1113
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:27,600
Speaker 4: of the game in terms of the plays that he

1114
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:29,600
Speaker 4: calls and how he calls them, the timeouse that he calls, Like,

1115
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:30,799
Speaker 4: I think Shane's got the goods.

1116
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 1: I really do the thinking about Baker and Darnald, those

1117
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:35,839
Speaker 1: are guys who I mean. Baker has had a new

1118
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:38,719
Speaker 1: offensive coordinator every year he's been in Tampa. Darnald will

1119
00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:42,040
Speaker 1: have a new offensive coordinator. YEP. Now in Seattle. What's

1120
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:45,239
Speaker 1: the benefit of Daniel Jones and Shane Stichen assuming that

1121
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:48,440
Speaker 1: something gets done with Daniel continuing that partnership and being

1122
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:49,919
Speaker 1: able to build on it in a way that maybe

1123
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:52,000
Speaker 1: some of these other reclamation projects have not been able

1124
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:52,200
Speaker 1: to do.

1125
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:55,560
Speaker 4: So it's it's hugely beneficial. You always want continuity. You

1126
00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:57,799
Speaker 4: want continuity of language, you want continuity with your center,

1127
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:00,320
Speaker 4: with your offensive line, for the Zaco productions, for your receipts.

1128
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:01,920
Speaker 4: Everything is good. You do have to make sure you

1129
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:03,520
Speaker 4: stay on the cutting edge right and you always want

1130
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:05,440
Speaker 4: to be having new offensive ideas come in right. One

1131
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:07,560
Speaker 4: of the things you've seen from Indianapolis is that there

1132
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:09,480
Speaker 4: was I think a change in how they wanted to

1133
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:11,600
Speaker 4: run all offense when it was no longer Anthony Richardson

1134
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:12,880
Speaker 4: and it was you know, whether it was Joe Flaco

1135
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:15,239
Speaker 4: or Cardon Minshewer, then Daniel Jones. So now you're getting

1136
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:17,680
Speaker 4: some continuity at quarterback, You're getting some continuity at coach.

1137
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:19,920
Speaker 4: The question that we have that we haven't really seen is, Okay,

1138
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:21,480
Speaker 4: what does Shane look like when he can actually build

1139
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:23,680
Speaker 4: something year over year? Right, there's no reason to believe

1140
00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:26,719
Speaker 4: it will go poorly. But this is a new opportunity,

1141
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:28,640
Speaker 4: which is also a new challenge for the Colts coaching

1142
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:30,080
Speaker 4: staff in terms of are you going to be able

1143
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:31,400
Speaker 4: to stay on the cutting edge come up with new

1144
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:33,760
Speaker 4: ideas because even before Daniel got hurt, you know, Daniel

1145
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:35,719
Speaker 4: was having like weeks one through seven he has like

1146
00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:37,440
Speaker 4: a pressure or sack ratio of like two, you know,

1147
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:39,319
Speaker 4: like he was not going down. And then they played

1148
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:40,840
Speaker 4: the tight ends and then they played the Steelers. Then

1149
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:42,399
Speaker 4: all of a sudden, the teams started to figure out, okay,

1150
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:43,719
Speaker 4: this is how we're going to get after the guy,

1151
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:45,439
Speaker 4: and the sacks started to pick back up. So even

1152
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:48,120
Speaker 4: before the injury, right, there were signs of like, all right,

1153
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:49,640
Speaker 4: like you know, you caused the league, but you got

1154
00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:52,279
Speaker 4: to drop on the league. Now league's gonna start catching up.

1155
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:53,960
Speaker 4: The league always does how are you going to stay

1156
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:55,640
Speaker 4: on the cutting edge? And whenever you have a staff

1157
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:58,399
Speaker 4: that has this much continuity, sometimes the ideas can run stale.

1158
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:00,520
Speaker 1: So that's the challenge for the Colts. What is a

1159
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:03,920
Speaker 1: what is a lesson that teams can take? Not from

1160
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:07,320
Speaker 1: the Seahawks, because it's I think taking lessons from the

1161
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:08,840
Speaker 1: team that won the Super Bowl is usually kind of

1162
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:11,120
Speaker 1: like a fool's errand yep, but from the teams that

1163
00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:15,319
Speaker 1: made the conference championships, so it'd be the Rams, Seahawks, Patriots, Broncos.

1164
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:17,759
Speaker 1: Is there a lesson that a team can apply this

1165
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 1: offseason from what made those four teams broadly successful?

1166
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 4: Probably, you know, like it's the same thing to me

1167
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:27,799
Speaker 4: as drawing a lesson from the Super Bowl champion, which

1168
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:29,719
Speaker 4: is that you're always going to be filtering things out

1169
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:31,839
Speaker 4: and forcing some comparisons why they aren't, some similarities where

1170
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:33,520
Speaker 4: they aren't. The two things that stand out to me

1171
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:35,000
Speaker 4: is one, all four of those teams are really good

1172
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:38,400
Speaker 4: at defensive tackle, and some teams had drafted and developed,

1173
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:40,839
Speaker 4: other teams had traded for right, the Patriots just went

1174
00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:43,239
Speaker 4: bought Milton Williams at like a price tag that in

1175
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:45,160
Speaker 4: you know, March had made all of our jaws drop.

1176
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:47,319
Speaker 4: And then by next January, nobody caress miult Williams was

1177
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:49,360
Speaker 4: winning playoff games for him, you know, And so I

1178
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:51,919
Speaker 4: think that the defensive tackle strength and you know Colts fans,

1179
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:54,040
Speaker 4: no with Grover and Debuck, right, when those two guys

1180
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:55,719
Speaker 4: are playing this year, I mean, are defo excuse me,

1181
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:58,400
Speaker 4: those tw guys are playing this year. Holy smokes. The

1182
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 4: defensive tackle room is good. Yeah, was having an unreal

1183
00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:03,319
Speaker 4: season before you got hurt this year. So there's the

1184
00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:05,719
Speaker 4: strength of defensive tackle that I would bring up. And

1185
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:08,600
Speaker 4: then you saw I think teams that really quickly turned

1186
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 4: over their roster year over year, and I think that

1187
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:14,880
Speaker 4: we're seeing teams get better at bouncing back faster because

1188
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:16,720
Speaker 4: they're getting smart in terms of winning on the margins

1189
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:19,360
Speaker 4: with quarterback contracts, winning on the margins with you know,

1190
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 4: undrafted free agents later round trafficks as specific positions, right,

1191
00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:25,280
Speaker 4: Like the Seahawks just don't have a great pass rushing

1192
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:27,439
Speaker 4: edge rusher, right, they don't have an elite They didn't

1193
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:29,200
Speaker 4: have a ton set guy. Yeah, exactly right. It was

1194
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:31,160
Speaker 4: just we're gonna have guys who are really really good

1195
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:33,400
Speaker 4: in terms of run defense. We're going to play them

1196
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:35,440
Speaker 4: on early downs. We're gonna fit the run from too high,

1197
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:37,120
Speaker 4: and that's gonna be able to take away the passing game.

1198
00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:39,239
Speaker 4: Just structurally for us in early downs, we're winning. It's

1199
00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:40,560
Speaker 4: the run on those downs. Then we're gonna get the

1200
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:43,280
Speaker 4: third and long, and then Mike McDonald's gonna do the

1201
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:45,399
Speaker 4: wackiest nonsense you've seen in your life, and we're gonna

1202
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:46,880
Speaker 4: be able to get a pressure for free, right, and

1203
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:49,600
Speaker 4: that If you can do that, a lot of teams can.

1204
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:51,640
Speaker 4: But if you can do that, you just saved sixty

1205
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:53,759
Speaker 4: million dollars at the edge rusher position relatively what you

1206
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:54,919
Speaker 4: have to pay if you wanted to have like two

1207
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:57,600
Speaker 4: really good pass rushing guys, you know. And so there's edges,

1208
00:49:57,719 --> 00:49:59,680
Speaker 4: and teams are getting better and better at finding those edges,

1209
00:49:59,719 --> 00:50:02,040
Speaker 4: and so to a degree, I think fans should be

1210
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:04,680
Speaker 4: reasonably less patient with their teams in terms of rebuilds.

1211
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:04,840
Speaker 1: Right.

1212
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:07,040
Speaker 4: It's funny, it's like usually like, okay, slow down, whatever,

1213
00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 4: But I know these teams are really starting to turn

1214
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:09,799
Speaker 4: things around fast.

1215
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:11,960
Speaker 1: I mean, the Seahawks had that stretch where they didn't

1216
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:14,440
Speaker 1: have anyone come out of the draft who is an

1217
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:16,000
Speaker 1: impact player, and all of a sudden, they go like bam,

1218
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:18,759
Speaker 1: bam bam. These like three consecutive drafts yep, and they're

1219
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:20,160
Speaker 1: winning a Super Bowl because of.

1220
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:23,000
Speaker 4: It the thinness between bad drafting and good drafting. Man Like,

1221
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:25,319
Speaker 4: it's it's it's they're a lot closer to one another

1222
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:26,680
Speaker 4: than you think. And it's the same thing with like

1223
00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:29,160
Speaker 4: the difference between five and twelve and twelve and five.

1224
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:31,279
Speaker 4: I know it's seven wins, but it's really a lot

1225
00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:32,680
Speaker 4: close than you think it is in terms of how

1226
00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:34,640
Speaker 4: these things break. Which is why when it seems like

1227
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:36,759
Speaker 4: the Colts and it's like, man, you know, Shane Sich

1228
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:38,879
Speaker 4: in another year, like Daniel Jones, will they be able

1229
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:39,239
Speaker 4: to do it?

1230
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:39,719
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1231
00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:42,200
Speaker 4: Man like, probably not because it's a really hard league

1232
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:44,440
Speaker 4: and every team is a very thin chance, like you

1233
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:47,360
Speaker 4: are always fighting uphill battle. But it's it's it's always

1234
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:48,520
Speaker 4: right there. It really really is.

1235
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:50,319
Speaker 1: Last one to get you out here on If we're

1236
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:54,480
Speaker 1: sitting here in February twenty twenty seven and the Colts

1237
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:56,719
Speaker 1: plan of trying to replicate the success they had over

1238
00:50:56,760 --> 00:51:00,440
Speaker 1: the first ten games comes to fruition and it works,

1239
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:04,560
Speaker 1: what is maybe the number one reason why that? And

1240
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:06,440
Speaker 1: I've asked this question a couple of people involve SA

1241
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:09,720
Speaker 1: Did's Daniel Jones. What's maybe the number one reason why

1242
00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:11,359
Speaker 1: that does not involve Daniel Jones.

1243
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:13,040
Speaker 4: The Jones wouldn't have been my first answer. Okay, my

1244
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:14,360
Speaker 4: first answer would have been the line would have been

1245
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:18,440
Speaker 4: jt right, because so much of the success on the

1246
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:20,240
Speaker 4: first half of the season was the fact that Taylor

1247
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:22,040
Speaker 4: is just a freak of nature.

1248
00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:24,480
Speaker 1: The EPA per play on rushes in the first half

1249
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:27,000
Speaker 1: the season was higher than most teams EPA per drop.

1250
00:51:27,120 --> 00:51:29,160
Speaker 4: It was the only one who had a positive one, right,

1251
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:30,680
Speaker 4: and it was because he had so many touchdowns and

1252
00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:34,160
Speaker 4: because he had so many explosives. Now, once you trickle

1253
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:37,879
Speaker 4: from Daniel Jones into the Riley Leonard Philip Rivers era,

1254
00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:40,759
Speaker 4: it's just so hard to run the football such that

1255
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:42,759
Speaker 4: if you get Daniel Jones back, and let's say you

1256
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:45,759
Speaker 4: get twenty twenty three Daniel Jones, twenty two Daniel Jones,

1257
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:47,279
Speaker 4: you don't even get first half of twenty twenty five

1258
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:50,080
Speaker 4: Daniel Jones, but you get enough of a passing game

1259
00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:52,719
Speaker 4: right with Warren, and then you know, let's say Pierces back,

1260
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:54,800
Speaker 4: and like there's enough danger there that you can just

1261
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:57,680
Speaker 4: keep teams honest and you can run the football. Taylor's got,

1262
00:51:58,040 --> 00:52:00,279
Speaker 4: you know, twenty twenty four sacle On Barkley level talent

1263
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 4: where it's like, hey, I run our offense into contention, right,

1264
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:05,640
Speaker 4: I just I can score from anywhere on the field,

1265
00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:08,280
Speaker 4: and I also can keep our offense on track. The

1266
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:09,960
Speaker 4: pairing that you need to have with that is you

1267
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:11,759
Speaker 4: need to have better defense than the Colts had, and

1268
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:13,879
Speaker 4: they knew that, and they made it an aggressive trade

1269
00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:15,560
Speaker 4: to solve that problem. And then we all kind of

1270
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:18,080
Speaker 4: know that story ended, and that's very very unfortunate. But

1271
00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:19,879
Speaker 4: if you can see and improvement in the defense into

1272
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:21,879
Speaker 4: twenty twenty six, and then you can get Jonathan Taylor

1273
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:23,319
Speaker 4: back just where he gets to play on a level

1274
00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:25,520
Speaker 4: playing field running the football, then you don't need Daniel

1275
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:28,040
Speaker 4: Jones to be like all that he was to start

1276
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:28,359
Speaker 4: the season.

1277
00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:29,040
Speaker 1: It'd be great.

1278
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:30,960
Speaker 4: You'd, you know, be leading the league of points for drive,

1279
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:33,000
Speaker 4: setting historic right your numbers again. But you don't need

1280
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:33,399
Speaker 4: all that.

1281
00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:34,120
Speaker 1: You need jt do.

1282
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:35,560
Speaker 4: You need the defense you need Dane'll.

1283
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Speaker 1: Keep the offensive schedule. Great stuff. Benjamin Solac from ESPN.

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Speaker 1: Appreciate the time, man, Thanks guys, appreciate it.