WEBVTT - Passing Notes PT 1 0:00:03.680 --> 0:00:06.720 I'm Kate Winkler Dawson. I'm a journalist who's spent the 0:00:06.800 --> 0:00:09.559 last twenty five years writing about true crime. 0:00:09.800 --> 0:00:12.800 And I'm Paul Hols, a retired cold case investigator who's 0:00:12.840 --> 0:00:16.439 worked some of America's most complicated cases and solve them. 0:00:16.480 --> 0:00:19.799 Each week, I present Paul with one of history's most 0:00:19.840 --> 0:00:21.720 compelling true crimes. 0:00:21.400 --> 0:00:24.279 And I weigh in using modern forensic techniques to bring 0:00:24.320 --> 0:00:26.040 new insights to old mysteries. 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:31.680 Together, using our individual expertise, we're examining historical true crime 0:00:31.760 --> 0:00:34.400 cases through a twenty first century lens. 0:00:34.600 --> 0:00:37.800 Some are solved and some are cold, very cold. 0:00:38.240 --> 0:00:39.839 This is buried Bones. 0:01:01.720 --> 0:01:02.680 Hi, Kate, how are you? 0:01:03.120 --> 0:01:05.960 I'm doing well. I have wanted to ask you something 0:01:05.959 --> 0:01:09.160 for a long time. You cheat on me with another show. 0:01:11.280 --> 0:01:12.280 That's one way to put it. 0:01:12.400 --> 0:01:14.440 He cheats on all of us. Although you guys listen, 0:01:14.480 --> 0:01:17.000 I'm sure too. It's a small town Dick's great show. 0:01:17.319 --> 0:01:21.240 One of your co hosts is very, very famous, you know, 0:01:21.360 --> 0:01:25.720 Yardley Smith, who is Lisa Simpson and it does many 0:01:25.720 --> 0:01:28.400 other things I know, but is best known for Lisa 0:01:28.440 --> 0:01:31.720 Simpson on The Simpsons, and so I have not met 0:01:31.760 --> 0:01:34.480 her in person yet, but I've sort of awestruck that 0:01:34.520 --> 0:01:37.080 you can even put together a sentence when you're doing 0:01:37.160 --> 0:01:40.560 a crime show with Lisa Simpson. I mean, she is 0:01:40.880 --> 0:01:44.800 just Yardly to you because you say you're not like 0:01:44.840 --> 0:01:47.160 some massive Simpsons fan like I am. 0:01:47.600 --> 0:01:50.280 No, you know, I watched a few episodes when it 0:01:50.320 --> 0:01:53.240 first came out, and that may have even been I 0:01:53.280 --> 0:01:56.600 think it was the Tracy Allman Show, you know. 0:01:56.720 --> 0:01:59.520 Back when they looked funny. I think, right, yeah, you know. 0:01:59.600 --> 0:02:02.560 So that is thirty plus years ago, and I never 0:02:02.640 --> 0:02:07.720 really followed it since. And then I met Yardley out 0:02:07.760 --> 0:02:12.440 in d C for a true crime conference and Yardly 0:02:13.080 --> 0:02:16.000 and then her now husband Dan and his twin brother 0:02:16.160 --> 0:02:19.520 Dave were to interview me on stage, and then that's 0:02:19.560 --> 0:02:21.800 when I got to know him, and obviously we just clicked, 0:02:21.840 --> 0:02:24.800 you know, Dan, Dave and I being law enforcement, and Yardly, 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:27.880 even with her celebrity status, is just so down to 0:02:27.960 --> 0:02:32.480 earth and you know. And so that has been a 0:02:33.440 --> 0:02:36.320 great part of my life to get to know them 0:02:36.400 --> 0:02:40.239 and eventually become part of the podcast Smalltown Dicks. 0:02:40.560 --> 0:02:43.360 And I think you all have like a very easy 0:02:43.400 --> 0:02:47.120 way of having a conversation but still being professional. Everybody's 0:02:47.160 --> 0:02:49.880 professional there and being very serious. But I feel like 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:52.079 it seems like you're all very comfortable with each other, 0:02:52.160 --> 0:02:53.720 which is which is you know, how you and I 0:02:53.760 --> 0:02:54.160 are too. 0:02:54.200 --> 0:02:56.400 I think, oh, yeah, no, you know, and I think 0:02:56.440 --> 0:03:00.920 that that really is what helps drive is success podcast 0:03:01.320 --> 0:03:03.959 is you know, the co host being able to relate 0:03:04.000 --> 0:03:07.320 to each other just in a very natural, friendly way. 0:03:08.040 --> 0:03:11.200 I am not a listener of podcasts, but I could 0:03:11.200 --> 0:03:14.200 only imagine that if there's awkwardness between the co hosts, 0:03:14.200 --> 0:03:17.360 that that probably doesn't come off very well. And so, 0:03:17.480 --> 0:03:20.000 of course, you know, our listeners hear you and I 0:03:20.120 --> 0:03:22.760 and the great relationship we have. But also a small 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:25.520 town dicks, it's just a natural thing. You know. We 0:03:26.600 --> 0:03:30.119 of course record the episodes, but even if we get 0:03:30.160 --> 0:03:33.480 together and it's we're not recording, we're just, let's say, 0:03:33.520 --> 0:03:34.680 hanging out in a hot tub. 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:40.200 All right. That's good to know. Well, I am jealous, 0:03:40.320 --> 0:03:43.920 very jealous, because I am a huge Simpsons fan and 0:03:44.080 --> 0:03:46.880 I try to get my kiddos into the Simpsons also 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:50.680 they get looped into the Halloween specials, and so I 0:03:50.800 --> 0:03:55.560 really admire her as an actress and as a voice actress, 0:03:55.560 --> 0:03:57.840 and I just think it's great. I'm super happy, and 0:03:57.880 --> 0:04:00.000 I hear she's a super fan, maybe not a super fan, 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:02.640 and she's a fan fan of Buried Bones, so that's good. 0:04:03.080 --> 0:04:06.240 Yeah, she listens to Buried Bones. I think she's a 0:04:06.280 --> 0:04:08.720 fan of yours. So you know, let's see if you've 0:04:08.760 --> 0:04:11.000 got some sort of mutual thing going on there. 0:04:11.280 --> 0:04:14.120 Well, what a wonderful way to start an episode. I 0:04:14.400 --> 0:04:17.520 like to start on a you know, positive note here, 0:04:18.240 --> 0:04:22.720 because you know, we now are pivoting into a well, 0:04:22.800 --> 0:04:27.880 I think is a really complicated kidnapping case, and we've 0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:30.599 had those before. I mean, I just feel like the 0:04:30.640 --> 0:04:34.839 more kidnapping episodes we cover, the nuttier these people get 0:04:35.360 --> 0:04:38.360 and the requests that they make it And I feel like, 0:04:38.520 --> 0:04:41.760 you know, we've covered kidnappings from all all different sorts 0:04:41.760 --> 0:04:44.240 of decades and we're going to be in the nineteen 0:04:44.240 --> 0:04:48.040 seventies in England for this one. But the requests from 0:04:48.120 --> 0:04:51.560 kidnappers just get stranger and stranger. So I always am 0:04:51.560 --> 0:04:54.440 fascinated about your reaction. You always have like a quizzical 0:04:54.800 --> 0:04:56.839 look on your face. I wish listeners could see it 0:04:56.920 --> 0:05:00.280 every time we talk about some of these weird us 0:05:00.279 --> 0:05:02.080 that the kidnappers make. So this will be a good 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:02.520 one for you. 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:05.960 Yeah, you know. And I can remember we had the 0:05:06.000 --> 0:05:10.479 one episode where the mail that was kidnapped and I 0:05:10.640 --> 0:05:13.240 was really suspicious of him, like he had staged his 0:05:13.279 --> 0:05:16.680 own abduction and turned out to be very very wrong, 0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:20.320 you know. But I do remember some of the requests 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:23.400 in that particular episode were so bizarre. I'm like, oh, 0:05:23.480 --> 0:05:25.880 this this just doesn't sound right. Well it turns out 0:05:25.880 --> 0:05:28.120 it was right, you know, And so I'm kind of 0:05:28.120 --> 0:05:31.599 curious to see, you know, this case and what kind 0:05:31.600 --> 0:05:33.520 of requests the kidnappers are going to make. 0:05:33.880 --> 0:05:37.440 Yeah, well, let's go ahead and set the scene. So 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:41.440 this is nineteen seventy five England, and this is a big, big, big, 0:05:41.520 --> 0:05:43.800 big one. I mean, there's lots of evidence, I have 0:05:43.880 --> 0:05:47.240 good photos, there's lots to talk about. It's a double episode, 0:05:47.800 --> 0:05:50.719 too big. Once I saw the prep document, I thought, man, 0:05:50.839 --> 0:05:53.159 this is really big. So this will be a good 0:05:53.160 --> 0:05:56.400 episode for us to really dig into. I think the 0:05:56.440 --> 0:05:59.040 way that kidnappers work and what they're thinking when they 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:01.800 do stuff like this, so we won't like, you know, 0:06:02.160 --> 0:06:04.520 dink around with this. As I say, my kids don't 0:06:04.520 --> 0:06:06.440 think around like this. We're not going to dink around 0:06:06.520 --> 0:06:08.760 this is let me tell you who the victim is, 0:06:09.000 --> 0:06:12.839 which just already sets me on edge. It is a 0:06:12.839 --> 0:06:15.400 seventeen year old girl, which is already you know, my 0:06:15.480 --> 0:06:18.160 kids are almost fifteen, so that's already I'm already kind 0:06:18.160 --> 0:06:20.400 of on edge to begin with with a story about 0:06:20.400 --> 0:06:24.600 a teenager. She's very small, she's five foot tall, and 0:06:24.760 --> 0:06:26.960 that kind of plays into this. I mean, what would 0:06:27.000 --> 0:06:29.400 you say, Paul, So she's if you have a kidnapping 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:32.159 victim who's small, five feet it's just like you're going 0:06:32.240 --> 0:06:34.440 to assume that this is somebody who's not going to 0:06:34.480 --> 0:06:35.520 put up as much of a fight. 0:06:35.560 --> 0:06:38.440 I guess, well, I wouldn't necessarily say that. I mean, 0:06:38.480 --> 0:06:41.880 you could in terms of putting up a fight versus 0:06:42.320 --> 0:06:47.200 being effective at the fight as probably how I differentiate that. Then, 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:51.520 of course, when you start dealing with evaluating the victim 0:06:51.640 --> 0:06:54.560 who's five foot nothing, you know, sounds like a petite 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:58.520 seventeen year old girl. And let's say the kidnapper is 0:06:58.560 --> 0:07:03.240 a more robust male. Obviously, the male has a size 0:07:03.240 --> 0:07:08.440 and strength advantage, which gives that offender greater latitude in 0:07:08.520 --> 0:07:13.360 terms of how to conduct the abduction versus you know, 0:07:13.480 --> 0:07:16.840 is it an offender who's having to use charm and 0:07:17.080 --> 0:07:20.200 lowering the victim versus an offender who could literally pick 0:07:20.240 --> 0:07:22.720 this girl up, sling her over his shoulder and walk 0:07:22.720 --> 0:07:25.200 her out to a vehicle. You know. So that's going 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:27.400 to be part of As I hear the details, I'm 0:07:27.400 --> 0:07:30.280 going to be starting to assess, well, you know, how 0:07:30.280 --> 0:07:33.000 did the offender approach the victim and how was she abducted? 0:07:33.000 --> 0:07:37.840 Because that speaks volumes to certain attributes of the offender. 0:07:38.560 --> 0:07:41.440 Okay, yeah, well here we go. This was a case 0:07:41.800 --> 0:07:45.560 recommended by a listener. Thank you listener. This involves, as 0:07:45.600 --> 0:07:48.080 I said at petit seventeen year old girl. Her name 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:53.640 is Leslie Whittle and she lives in highly Shropshire hopefully 0:07:53.640 --> 0:07:56.120 I said that right, which is a village in the 0:07:56.160 --> 0:07:59.960 West Midlands of England. She has a very comfortable life. 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:04.240 We are talking upper class because her father is a businessman. 0:08:04.400 --> 0:08:07.840 His name is George Whittell, and he runs a sizable 0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:11.440 and successful bus company coach company in the United States, 0:08:11.480 --> 0:08:14.720 we'd say bus company. When he died in seventy two, 0:08:15.120 --> 0:08:18.600 he left behind a fortune of three hundred thousand British 0:08:18.640 --> 0:08:21.880 pounds to his surviving family. This is I'm going to 0:08:22.000 --> 0:08:24.840 convert things to American dollars. This is like just south 0:08:24.880 --> 0:08:26.840 of five million, I would say four and a half 0:08:26.880 --> 0:08:30.840 million maybe dollars today. This includes his wife, Dorothy, she's 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:33.959 in her fifties, and he has a son named Ron 0:08:34.040 --> 0:08:36.640 who is in his early thirties. And then there's Leslie 0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:40.720 who's seventeen. So she actually gets a portion that is 0:08:40.960 --> 0:08:44.720 substantial eighty two thousand, which is you know, about a 0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:47.240 million pounds now, which is you know, one and a 0:08:47.280 --> 0:08:49.880 half million dollars. I would say, So she gets us 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:53.960 at seventeen. Here's the problem. It's widely reported that she 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:57.679 got this inheritance in local newspapers. I've never understood this, 0:08:58.000 --> 0:08:59.800 you know, I mean, don't you think that would make 0:08:59.840 --> 0:09:01.880 her a target? And I'm not, like I said, I'm 0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:04.360 not dinking around with this one. She's the target here. 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:07.040 So a seventeen year old who has about a million 0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:11.040 and a half dollars to day dollars in an inheritance. 0:09:10.960 --> 0:09:16.160 Well, I think just the family wealth is driving any 0:09:16.200 --> 0:09:19.480 of them to be a target her inheriting the money. 0:09:19.520 --> 0:09:22.960 Of course, maybe an offender would be evaluating this as 0:09:22.960 --> 0:09:25.600 a seventeen year old girl. Is there a way I 0:09:25.679 --> 0:09:29.640 can steal from her, rob from her if in an 0:09:29.679 --> 0:09:33.920 abduction situation, it's not unheard of her offenders will force 0:09:34.040 --> 0:09:37.520 victims to withdraw from their bank right checks, you know, 0:09:37.600 --> 0:09:43.560 so this is a direct robbery of the victim's financial assets. However, 0:09:44.080 --> 0:09:48.520 in this scenario, there's greater assets with the other family members. 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:53.760 And so now is Leslie when she gets abducted. Is 0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:59.360 the offender or offenders utilizing her safety as leverage to 0:09:59.400 --> 0:10:02.200 get access to the larger sums of money that the 0:10:02.240 --> 0:10:02.880 family has. 0:10:06.160 --> 0:10:08.960 Let's see what happens. This family's worth a lot of money. 0:10:09.160 --> 0:10:12.080 And now the patriarch has gone, and there is a 0:10:12.240 --> 0:10:15.160 son who's in his thirties but not around. It doesn't 0:10:15.200 --> 0:10:19.079 sound like he lives somewhere else. And then Leslie. This 0:10:19.160 --> 0:10:22.560 is January fourteenth, nineteen seventy five, and we are at 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:26.320 the Wittell home. Dorothy is wondering, so this is the mother. 0:10:26.440 --> 0:10:29.520 Dorothy wonders why Leslie hasn't come down for breakfast yet. 0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:32.840 That morning, she goes upstairs to look for Leslie, but 0:10:32.960 --> 0:10:35.560 she's not in her bedroom and she doesn't seem to 0:10:35.600 --> 0:10:39.040 be anywhere in the house. Dorothy is really nervous. She 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:42.960 calls to the adult son, Ron, who lives nearby, but 0:10:43.840 --> 0:10:47.199 her phone isn't working, so she rushes over to Ron's 0:10:47.200 --> 0:10:50.360 house and returns to her own house alongside him, and 0:10:50.360 --> 0:10:52.880 together they start looking for Leslie, but they don't find her. 0:10:53.160 --> 0:10:57.400 They do discover that what you probably have silently suspected 0:10:57.400 --> 0:10:59.640 that someone cut the phone lines to the house. 0:11:00.000 --> 0:11:00.280 Okay. 0:11:00.480 --> 0:11:03.160 They also find a box of candy that has been 0:11:03.280 --> 0:11:06.600 left in front of the homes fireplace, which seems odd. 0:11:07.280 --> 0:11:09.400 They look in this box of candy and there are 0:11:09.520 --> 0:11:15.160 several messages created with a Dimo label maker, which is 0:11:15.160 --> 0:11:18.280 a device that punches letters and numbers onto a plastic tape, 0:11:18.320 --> 0:11:20.240 like you know, I mean, I have a label maker 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:24.559 at home. Yeah, so this is a message, right, and 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:28.920 the message demands a ransom of fifty thousand pounds for 0:11:29.200 --> 0:11:32.200 Leslie's safe return, which is quite a lot of money today, 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:34.440 about a million, maybe a little less than a million 0:11:34.480 --> 0:11:37.480 American dollars. I have a photo of the house, and 0:11:37.520 --> 0:11:41.280 I have a photo of this Dimo label maker message. 0:11:41.360 --> 0:11:43.120 If you want to see those, or if you want 0:11:43.120 --> 0:11:43.960 to keep going. 0:11:44.200 --> 0:11:45.520 No, I'll go ahead and take a look at this. 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:51.079 Okay, So let's start with the house. You know, it's 0:11:51.080 --> 0:11:52.840 a big house. It's as fancy as I thought it 0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:54.680 could be. But still, I mean, you know, it's a 0:11:54.679 --> 0:11:55.880 big house. What do you think. 0:11:56.240 --> 0:11:59.080 Yeah, Well, when you're telling me that Leslie is not 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:02.880 inside the how and that it appears that the offender 0:12:03.000 --> 0:12:05.599 or offenders left this box of candy with the message, 0:12:06.000 --> 0:12:08.080 you know, the first thing I thought about is okay, 0:12:08.120 --> 0:12:13.440 so even with Mom Dorothy inside the house, it sounds 0:12:13.440 --> 0:12:16.880 like the offenders somehow gained entry into the house and 0:12:17.000 --> 0:12:19.640 took Leslie without Mom hearing a thing. So now I'm 0:12:19.679 --> 0:12:21.680 looking at a photo of this house, and you know, 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:24.080 in the foreground it appears that there this is a 0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:27.520 photo taken during some sort of search. There are men, 0:12:28.440 --> 0:12:32.720 numerous men with dogs that are out. I'm assuming this 0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:35.200 is the front yard. It's you know, doesn't look like 0:12:35.280 --> 0:12:40.560 a traditional street. And directly behind the men with the 0:12:40.600 --> 0:12:45.280 dogs is a fairly tall hedge, is how I describe it. 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:48.840 And then beyond that hedge is a two story house. 0:12:49.280 --> 0:12:52.360 What strikes me about at least this side of the house, 0:12:52.400 --> 0:12:54.320 and I can't tell if this is the front side 0:12:54.400 --> 0:13:00.320 or not, but there's very large windows all across this 0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:01.280 side of the house. 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:03.720 I would bet Paul, this is the back because look 0:13:03.960 --> 0:13:07.240 that ugly antenna is right there, yeah, you know, sticking 0:13:07.320 --> 0:13:09.280 up above. I would bet this is the back. And 0:13:09.320 --> 0:13:12.320 I also wonder if there's a building to the upper 0:13:12.480 --> 0:13:15.199 left or if that's one of their buildings. 0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:17.960 Yeah, you know, the to the left of the house, 0:13:18.480 --> 0:13:22.520 I'm guessing that's maybe a garage, maybe a detached garage. 0:13:22.800 --> 0:13:25.960 I think you're right, you know, this is likely the 0:13:26.000 --> 0:13:28.720 back of the house. I'm not seeing anything even that 0:13:28.920 --> 0:13:33.200 suggests that there is a a an entrance, you know, 0:13:33.240 --> 0:13:35.560 that would be what would be considered a front entrance. 0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:38.800 So the house looks like it has some size. It 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:42.400 does appear that it's a visibility into the house. Is 0:13:43.040 --> 0:13:47.479 it's significant, you know, these large windows. I'm not seeing curtains. 0:13:47.920 --> 0:13:50.160 It appears that at least with the windows that I 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:54.679 can see that there's plane view into the house, and 0:13:54.720 --> 0:13:57.680 that would be a significant portion of the interior of 0:13:57.679 --> 0:14:01.319 the house and an offender could see from the outside. 0:14:01.559 --> 0:14:03.920 You know, this is a wealthier family. I'm assuming that 0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:09.520 this house is something that is fitting with their lifestyle. 0:14:10.080 --> 0:14:14.520 So the size of the house definitely aids the offender. 0:14:14.920 --> 0:14:18.360 If Leslie, let's say she was last seen going into 0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:21.520 her bedroom or in her bedroom. And Mom's bedroom is, 0:14:22.040 --> 0:14:23.920 you know, on the other side of the house. And yes, 0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:26.680 I could easily see an offender coming in and abducting 0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:30.200 a petit seventeen year old girl, keeping her quiet either 0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:33.760 by force or fear, and getting her outside of the house. 0:14:34.120 --> 0:14:36.880 And it's just these two women. It's Dorothy and her daughter. 0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:39.480 So that's it in this house. You know you had 0:14:39.520 --> 0:14:41.320 mentioned this hedge. This is what I would call a 0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:44.320 privacy hedge, and it is substantial. I mean it's tall 0:14:44.360 --> 0:14:47.320 and taller than these men who are standing next to it. 0:14:47.600 --> 0:14:49.920 I don't know if there's a wire above it or something. 0:14:50.280 --> 0:14:53.800 It definitely looks like some kind of privacy like security. 0:14:54.000 --> 0:14:56.720 There's a gate there. But then you're right, I mean, 0:14:56.760 --> 0:15:00.360 the upper floors are completely exposed right below the I 0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:03.400 don't know if those are terracotta tiles. But let me 0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:07.000 show you this message, so I don't know. You see 0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:08.680 where the chimney is, which was on the left hand 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:11.240 side of the house. I don't know if Leslie's room 0:15:11.320 --> 0:15:13.920 is right above where the chimney is. And you know, 0:15:14.160 --> 0:15:17.320 whoever took her went downstairs and just sort of dropped 0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:19.760 this candy box on the ground, but this is what 0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:23.120 was inside. So this is it says, well, why don't 0:15:23.120 --> 0:15:24.520 you read it? Tell me what you think. 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:28.680 So this is a single strip of this dimo plastic 0:15:29.200 --> 0:15:32.920 you know, and I remember utilizing these in you know, 0:15:32.920 --> 0:15:35.440 when I was much younger. You know, the offender is 0:15:35.480 --> 0:15:40.640 having to rotate a wheel and then press on a 0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:46.640 handle that causes like a crimping aspect where the plastic 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:49.960 where it gets crimped. Now it changes color in the 0:15:49.960 --> 0:15:54.600 shape of the letter. So this is a dark background 0:15:54.680 --> 0:15:58.920 with white letters, single strip, and it says only after 0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:03.920 fifty thousand pounds has been cleared will victim be released. 0:16:04.320 --> 0:16:07.640 So obviously this is an essence a ransom note in 0:16:07.760 --> 0:16:10.280 a very unusual format. 0:16:10.480 --> 0:16:13.880 I mean, obviously he doesn't want to do this with handwriting, 0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:17.440 because it's seventy five. Everybody knows that there's handwriting analysis. 0:16:17.600 --> 0:16:20.080 This is an odd choice, right, I mean, I've seen 0:16:20.160 --> 0:16:24.120 kidnappers do everything from you know, newspaper clippings to make 0:16:24.120 --> 0:16:28.160 the letters, to obviously using a typewriter or computer. I 0:16:28.200 --> 0:16:30.680 don't know if this choice is going to be significant 0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:33.320 using a label maker, but this is certainly what he did, 0:16:33.320 --> 0:16:35.720 and there's obviously more lines than just this one that 0:16:35.760 --> 0:16:37.800 they just wanted to just show an example here. 0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:40.400 Sure, well, you know, this is an offender who is 0:16:40.560 --> 0:16:44.160 trying to think about physical evidence, and so in the 0:16:44.160 --> 0:16:49.760 offender's mind, by utilizing this DIMO device to craft the 0:16:49.880 --> 0:16:55.080 ransom note, he's avoiding leaving physical evidence. However, he's not 0:16:55.600 --> 0:17:00.200 knowledgeable enough about how forensics can actually get a ton 0:17:00.480 --> 0:17:06.159 of evidence from this type of material. You know, of 0:17:06.200 --> 0:17:11.800 course we're seeing the investigator's hands, assuming it's investigators are 0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:15.760 some you know, authorities, hands with no gloves on. You know, 0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:20.160 this plastic is a very good surface for latent prints. 0:17:20.240 --> 0:17:22.800 It's so narrow that you'd only get partial prints. But 0:17:22.840 --> 0:17:26.359 of course now we have some contamination from whoever bare 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:29.240 fingers are showing here to kind of hold on to 0:17:29.359 --> 0:17:33.320 this strip, you know, But this this device, there may 0:17:33.400 --> 0:17:38.960 be characteristics that, due to the wear of this device 0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:43.520 previously being used, might be unique to this particular device. 0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:49.280 The finding of the source material for this ransom you know, plastic, 0:17:49.320 --> 0:17:51.760 if you will, if it's with the device and the 0:17:51.800 --> 0:17:56.720 fender's home, you know that significant fingerprints, of course could 0:17:56.720 --> 0:18:00.359 be recovered from this material. And in this ana, it 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:02.959 also would be a source of DNA, but you know, 0:18:03.280 --> 0:18:07.520 it informs me that the offender is trying in his 0:18:07.720 --> 0:18:11.760 mind to limit the amount of evidence that law enforcement 0:18:11.840 --> 0:18:16.760 can use to identify him or her. 0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:21.520 Okay, So these are messages that demand a ransom as 0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:24.440 you had read, of fifty thousand pounds for Leslie's safe return, 0:18:25.280 --> 0:18:28.960 and they instruct a member of the family to go 0:18:29.200 --> 0:18:33.200 to a specific telephone box like the classic red payphones 0:18:33.280 --> 0:18:36.080 that you find, you know, in the United Kingdom, at 0:18:36.080 --> 0:18:39.840 the Swan shopping center later that night. So this is 0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:42.280 in a town, at a shopping center that's about ten 0:18:42.280 --> 0:18:46.520 to fifteen miles away from where they are. Once at 0:18:46.520 --> 0:18:49.680 the payphone, the family member has to wait for a 0:18:49.720 --> 0:18:54.000 call from the kidnapper, who will then give further instructions 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:57.320 that will culminate in a ransom drop and Leslie's release. 0:18:57.560 --> 0:19:01.400 So the kidnappers call will come so time between six 0:19:01.480 --> 0:19:05.199 pm and one am on this night. You know that 0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:08.840 she's been kidnapped in January. There's another message printed on 0:19:09.040 --> 0:19:13.119 dimo tape that the kidnapper says, you are on a 0:19:13.160 --> 0:19:18.399 time limit if police or tricks death. What do you 0:19:18.520 --> 0:19:22.000 think so far? Besides he doesn't want to type too anymore, 0:19:22.000 --> 0:19:24.240 and he's losing. He's leaving out a lot of words 0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:25.920 in these messages. I guess that's what happens when you 0:19:26.000 --> 0:19:28.560 use a label maker as your ransom note generator. 0:19:29.280 --> 0:19:34.200 Yeah. Well, I mean this is, right now, pretty prototypical language. 0:19:34.680 --> 0:19:40.119 You know. It is leveraging Leslie's safety for money, the 0:19:40.200 --> 0:19:42.760 use of the dimo. You know. I remember having to, 0:19:42.920 --> 0:19:46.680 you know, twist each letter for the word crimp it off, 0:19:46.840 --> 0:19:48.960 go to the next letter. It is a kind of 0:19:49.000 --> 0:19:53.120 a time consuming process to do, and that possibly contributes 0:19:53.160 --> 0:19:57.040 to the curtness, if you will, of the message. But 0:19:57.119 --> 0:20:00.879 the message is effective. It's not like it's leaving out 0:20:01.400 --> 0:20:04.960 any clarity of what the intent is. And at least 0:20:04.960 --> 0:20:08.080 with the previous strip, it looked like all the words 0:20:08.080 --> 0:20:12.119 were spelled correctly, you know, so that might indicate something 0:20:12.160 --> 0:20:13.240 about the offender too. 0:20:13.640 --> 0:20:16.399 Okay, so we're thinking this one might be of the 0:20:16.560 --> 0:20:18.720 range of offenders that we've had, this might be one 0:20:18.760 --> 0:20:20.399 of the more intelligent ones. I guess we're going to 0:20:20.440 --> 0:20:22.560 find out then, right, Well. 0:20:22.800 --> 0:20:25.159 I want to go that far. At least it's not 0:20:25.359 --> 0:20:28.880 so because we've had some you know, ransom letters in 0:20:28.920 --> 0:20:32.719 which the grammar and the spelling of the words is 0:20:32.760 --> 0:20:37.240 just so poor, and sometimes it's purposely done as a 0:20:37.280 --> 0:20:41.080 form of staging, so the offender is making him look 0:20:41.160 --> 0:20:43.560 like somebody else that he's not, or it's just that 0:20:43.640 --> 0:20:46.160 the offender is just not very well educated. 0:20:47.480 --> 0:20:51.480 So Ron and Dorothy, so the mother and the son 0:20:51.600 --> 0:20:56.400 are prepared, they're ready to pay this ransom. But despite 0:20:56.560 --> 0:20:59.200 the threat, they always call the police. You know, despite 0:20:59.240 --> 0:21:01.960 the threat from the capers, Ron decides he's going to 0:21:02.000 --> 0:21:04.919 call the police. And I'm never quite sure what the 0:21:05.000 --> 0:21:09.720 right answer is here, because we have never seen anything 0:21:09.760 --> 0:21:12.919 good come from calling the police in any of our 0:21:13.000 --> 0:21:16.520 ransom stories. But you know, Ron calls the police and 0:21:16.560 --> 0:21:19.520 they start quietly working with the police. So what do 0:21:19.560 --> 0:21:21.080 you think about that it's always a good idea to 0:21:21.119 --> 0:21:24.200 call investigators. I'm assuming I. 0:21:24.119 --> 0:21:27.520 Think, yeah, you know, I think in most instances, you know, 0:21:28.119 --> 0:21:32.720 to have the types of resources that authorities have in 0:21:32.880 --> 0:21:38.159 order to be able to investigate and monitor, you know, 0:21:38.280 --> 0:21:44.600 do surveillance. I think there's a greater ability with bringing 0:21:44.680 --> 0:21:48.080 law enforcement in right off the bat of being able 0:21:48.160 --> 0:21:52.840 to possibly catch the offenders prior to the loved one 0:21:53.359 --> 0:21:56.840 suffering harm or more harm. You know, it would be 0:21:56.880 --> 0:21:59.200 a tough one though. You know, if your your loved 0:21:59.200 --> 0:22:02.800 one is abductive and now there's threat of that loved 0:22:02.840 --> 0:22:05.600 one's life if you do notify authorities, you know, you 0:22:05.840 --> 0:22:08.520 kind of are You've got to be second guessing. Well, 0:22:09.200 --> 0:22:11.399 how are the offenders monitoring me? 0:22:12.040 --> 0:22:12.320 You know? 0:22:12.720 --> 0:22:15.720 Could I do something that inadvertently I have no idea 0:22:15.760 --> 0:22:18.359 that the offenders would be able to find out, and 0:22:18.400 --> 0:22:22.280 now my loved one is hurt, so I can see 0:22:22.280 --> 0:22:25.640 where the dilemma is. My position would be is, yeah, 0:22:25.680 --> 0:22:29.960 I think it is more favorable to pull in law 0:22:30.040 --> 0:22:33.520 enforcement up front than to try to handle this situation 0:22:34.119 --> 0:22:35.000 just as a family. 0:22:35.440 --> 0:22:38.160 Well that's what Ron wants to do. So they called 0:22:38.200 --> 0:22:41.880 the police. They start working with the family. The officers 0:22:41.880 --> 0:22:44.800 don't find very much physical evidence at all. They think 0:22:44.840 --> 0:22:48.080 that Leslie was basically taken right from her bedroom, and 0:22:48.119 --> 0:22:51.399 they said the only items that Dorothy say are missing 0:22:51.440 --> 0:22:55.160