Speaker 1: Welcome to Haunted Road, a production of I Heart Radio
Speaker 1: and Grim and Mild from Aaron Minky. Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 1: In January seven, the body of Elva Zona Heister was
Speaker 1: found dead at the foot of her stairs by a
Speaker 1: young boy who had been dispatched to the house on
Speaker 1: an errand by her husband, Erasmus Stribbling Trout Shoe. The
Speaker 1: boy ran for his mother, who then called the local
Speaker 1: doctor and coroner. The doctor took over an hour to arrive,
Speaker 1: and by the time he did, Shoe had carried his
Speaker 1: wife's body upstairs, dressed her in a high neck dress
Speaker 1: with a stiff caller, laid her out on the bed,
Speaker 1: and covered her face with a veil. When the doctor
Speaker 1: attempted to examine Elva, Shoe sobbed and cradled her head,
Speaker 1: and even at one point became violent when the doctor
Speaker 1: tried to take a closer look at bruises he noticed
Speaker 1: about Elva's neck. At that point, the corener ended his
Speaker 1: examination and left the house. Elva's death was listed as
Speaker 1: everlasting faint and then was changed to childbirth four weeks later.
Speaker 1: Elva's mother, Mary Jane Heister, claimed the spirit of her
Speaker 1: daughter had appeared to her in a dream and declared
Speaker 1: that her husband was cruel, had abused her, and eventually
Speaker 1: murdered her by breaking her neck. To demonstrate this, the
Speaker 1: ghost turned her head around until it was facing backwards.
Speaker 1: Armed with this story, Mary Jane visited the local prosecutor
Speaker 1: and begged her daughter's body be exhumed. It was and
Speaker 1: was given a three day autopsy, at which they found
Speaker 1: her neck was indeed broken and her windpipe smashed. Shoe
Speaker 1: was arrested and charged with the murder of his wife.
Speaker 1: Turns out Shoe had been married twice before. One former
Speaker 1: wife left him due to abuse, the other died under
Speaker 1: mysterious circumstances. During the trial, the ghost was brought up
Speaker 1: one time by the defense in an attempt to prove
Speaker 1: Elva's mother an unreliable and unstable witness. The prosecution, on
Speaker 1: the other hand, didn't need the ghost testimony to prove
Speaker 1: Sho's guilt, So while the ghost may have instigated the investigation,
Speaker 1: it was not ultimately what led to a guilty verdict
Speaker 1: and put him away for life. However, I have a
Speaker 1: story to tell you that happened over two hundred years
Speaker 1: before in Portsmouth, Rhode Island where just that happened, and
Speaker 1: it still stands today as the only case in American
Speaker 1: history where the testimony of a ghost led to a murder,
Speaker 1: conviction and execution. I'm Amy Brunei, and this is Haunted Road.
Speaker 1: Thomas Sr. And Rebecca Cornell were originally from England, where
Speaker 1: they married in sixteen twenty. Thomas was in his thirties
Speaker 1: and Rebecca was About twenty seven years later, their child,
Speaker 1: Thomas Jr. Was born. Some records have as many as
Speaker 1: twenty children born to the Cornells, but for the purposes
Speaker 1: of this bit of history, let's focus on Thomas Jr.
Speaker 1: The Cornell's left England for Boston, where they arrived in
Speaker 1: sixteen thirty eight. They were some of Boston's very first settlers.
Speaker 1: Their tenure in Boston was cut short, though, when the
Speaker 1: Massachusetts Bay Colony was divided over the Antinomian controversy, which,
Speaker 1: while incredibly complex, I'll totally oversimplify by saying, what's a
Speaker 1: debate over biblical interpretation, and the Puritans, who were in
Speaker 1: the minority were cast from the colony. The Cornell's in
Speaker 1: particular sympathized with the more tolerant society. Roger Williams was
Speaker 1: creating in Rhode Island. Thomas Senior was involved in some
Speaker 1: side projects, but managed to secure one hundred acre land
Speaker 1: grant in Portsmouth, Rhode Island by sixteen forty four that
Speaker 1: became the Cornell Homestead. Thomas Senior died February sixteen fifty four,
Speaker 1: and most likely at the family home. He was also
Speaker 1: most likely buried at what is now called the Old
Speaker 1: Cornell Cemetery. After Thomas Senior died, Rebecca put their son
Speaker 1: in charge of the estate. At the time, Thomas had
Speaker 1: been married to his first wife, but after her death,
Speaker 1: Thomas remarried a woman named Sara. Apparently, Rebecca was not
Speaker 1: a fan of Sara. Reportedly, Sara had chased one of
Speaker 1: Thomas's children with his first wife with an axe, and
Speaker 1: Rebecca stepped in and prevented her from striking the child.
Speaker 1: If she hadn't, this would probably be a very different
Speaker 1: kind of haunting. On a cold winter night in sixteen
Speaker 1: seventy three, Rebecca Cornell and Thomas had an hour long
Speaker 1: conversation before a dinner of salted mackerel, which Rebecca declined
Speaker 1: to eat because she said it made her dry in
Speaker 1: the night. According to Thomas. That evening, Edward, his son,
Speaker 1: went to Rebecca's bedroom to see if she would have
Speaker 1: her evening milk. There he found some sort of fire
Speaker 1: on the floor, but it was so dark he needed
Speaker 1: a candle to further illuminate the scene. Sounding the alarm,
Speaker 1: Edward ran for help. Henry Straight, a hired hand, ran
Speaker 1: into the room, followed by the boy with the handle,
Speaker 1: and then by Thomas Cornell and his wife. The hired
Speaker 1: man saw the fire and raped it out with his hands,
Speaker 1: and then, in the faint light shed by the candle,
Speaker 1: saw a human body on the floor. According to rather
Speaker 1: strange testimony from Thomas, he supposed it to be a
Speaker 1: local Indian, so he shook the body and spoke to
Speaker 1: it in an Indian language. At that moment, Thomas Cornell
Speaker 1: saw the body closer and exclaimed, oh Lord, it is
Speaker 1: my mother. After a rather swift investigation, the coroner declared
Speaker 1: that Rebecca's death had occurred by fire, that she had
Speaker 1: most likely dropped ash on herself while smoking her pipe.
Speaker 1: But our story, of course, does not end there. Four
Speaker 1: days after Rebecca was found dead, a man named John Briggs,
Speaker 1: often referred to as her brother, but the details of
Speaker 1: their relationship are debated and unclear, claimed to have been
Speaker 1: visited by the ghost of Rebecca, and according to him,
Speaker 1: she declared that her death was not an accident at all,
Speaker 1: that she was in fact murdered. According to records of
Speaker 1: the trial, Briggs says he was awoken by movement on
Speaker 1: the bed when he perceived a light in the room
Speaker 1: like the dawning of the day, and plainly saw the
Speaker 1: shape and appearance of a woman standing by his bedside.
Speaker 1: Whereat he was much affrighted and cried out in the
Speaker 1: name of God, what art thou. The apparition then claimed
Speaker 1: to be Rebecca Cornell. Then it said, see how I
Speaker 1: was burned with fire twice the apparition did appear to
Speaker 1: be burned from the shoulders up. Briggs story inspired one
Speaker 1: John Russell to come forward with revelations of his own.
Speaker 1: He claimed that shortly before Rebecca's death, an old friend
Speaker 1: of his named George Soul, confided to him that on
Speaker 1: a visit to the Cornell house, Rebecca told Soul that
Speaker 1: she planned to move in with her other son, Samuel,
Speaker 1: but feared she would be made away with Before that time,
Speaker 1: the citizens of Portsmouth became increasingly suspicious that Rebecca Cornell's
Speaker 1: death was no accident. It was no secret that the
Speaker 1: Cornell household was not a happy, very unusually for colonial America.
Speaker 1: Rebecca not her forty six year old son Thomas, was
Speaker 1: the head of her household. They lived in her home,
Speaker 1: and she was apparently not shy about exercising her authority
Speaker 1: and controlling the purse strings. In short, her middle aged
Speaker 1: son was still dependent on his mother, and rumor had
Speaker 1: it that he greatly resented this fat Briggs and Russell
Speaker 1: were convincing enough for the Deputy Governor to convene a
Speaker 1: new inquest, and Rebecca's body was exhumed in order for
Speaker 1: a more thorough autopsy. Two surgeons from Newport were called
Speaker 1: in to see if any wounds could be found on
Speaker 1: the dead woman. An examination by the doctors uncovered what
Speaker 1: they deemed to be a suspicious wound on her stomach.
Speaker 1: Did Thomas Cornell stab his mother then use the fire
Speaker 1: to cover it up? This second inquest panel now ruled
Speaker 1: that Rebecca had died not only from burns, but from
Speaker 1: a suspicious wound. Thomas Cornell was put under arrest and
Speaker 1: a grand jury assembled. As the trial dressed gossip and
Speaker 1: hearsay about the Cornell family was presented in droves. In
Speaker 1: addition to Thomas being unhappy with his living situation and
Speaker 1: Rebecca's a parent distaste for Thomas's second wife, Sarah, it
Speaker 1: was said that Rebecca was so miserable she had suicidal
Speaker 1: ideations about dying by knife or drowning. Others reiterated Rebecca's
Speaker 1: plans to leave the family in the spring to live
Speaker 1: with her other son, that she complained that Thomas was
Speaker 1: stingy with heating the house, forced her to do farm labor,
Speaker 1: and generally didn't meet her needs. For Thomas's part, he
Speaker 1: said that his mother in her lifetime had a desire
Speaker 1: to have a good fire, and further said that he
Speaker 1: thought God had answered her ends for now she had it.
Speaker 1: Thomas was apparently not great at reading the room. Eventually,
Speaker 1: Thomas was sentenced and found guilty, largely in part to
Speaker 1: the testimony of Briggs and his encounter with Rebecca's apparition.
Speaker 1: The actual trial record reads, whereas you Thomas Cornell, have
Speaker 1: been in this court in I did in charge for
Speaker 1: murthering your mother, Mrs Rebecca Cornell widow, and you being
Speaker 1: by your peers the jerry found guilty. From thence on
Speaker 1: Friday next which will be the twenty three day of
Speaker 1: this instant month, May, about one of the clock, you're
Speaker 1: to be carried from the said goal to the place
Speaker 1: of the gallows, and there to be hanged by the
Speaker 1: neck until you are dead dead. Thomas denied his guilt
Speaker 1: up to the moment of his execution. Two years later,
Speaker 1: his wife Sarah was charged as an accessory, as was
Speaker 1: a local native person. They were not convicted, and the
Speaker 1: use of spectral evidence in criminal court hearings became a
Speaker 1: point of concern in Rhode Island. A little late, i'd say,
Speaker 1: the investigation into Rebecca's death still stands as the only
Speaker 1: case in American history that includes spectral evidence in the
Speaker 1: conviction and execution of a killer. Today, the Valley in
Speaker 1: and restaurant stands at the very side of the Cornell Homestead.
Speaker 1: The original home burned down in the mid eighteen hundreds,
Speaker 1: but the existing home and restaurant were built on its
Speaker 1: original foundation, basement and chimneys, and almost exactly mirrors the
Speaker 1: layout of the original home. The family cemetery is on
Speaker 1: a now adjacent property that has been developed with condos,
Speaker 1: but if you know where to look, you can find
Speaker 1: a small trail at the end of one of the
Speaker 1: cul de sacs that will take you to Rhode Island
Speaker 1: Historical Portsmouth Cemetery thirty six, where the Cornells were all buried,
Speaker 1: but not Thomas. It was determined by the family that
Speaker 1: Thomas would be buried at the furthest point of the property,
Speaker 1: and therefore the furthest distance possible from the mother he
Speaker 1: was accused of slaying that property point. It's directly beneath
Speaker 1: the parking lot of the valley In. The valley In
Speaker 1: and restaurant today is run by owner Joe Ochie, whose
Speaker 1: father purchased the house in nineteen fifty seven from a
Speaker 1: Cornell descendant, and being a Portsmouth resident, I can vouch
Speaker 1: at their pizza is the best in town and that
Speaker 1: Joe Och may be one of the most loved residents
Speaker 1: in town. I had been wanting to investigate the valley
Speaker 1: In for years. Many had asked Joe, but he declined,
Speaker 1: stating that while he had heard of many experiences people
Speaker 1: had over the years, he wasn't ready to entertain it.
Speaker 1: But one week in the summer of Joe allowed Adam
Speaker 1: Burry and myself to investigate the building with our show
Speaker 1: Kindred Spirits, and the results were astounding. We'll talk to
Speaker 1: Adam in a little bit about his thoughts and theories
Speaker 1: on the location, but let me just give you an
Speaker 1: idea of some of the paranormal happenings reported there over
Speaker 1: the years. Items have been known to move on their own,
Speaker 1: including a bottle that once flew off a shelf in
Speaker 1: front of a number of patrons. A woman once claimed
Speaker 1: to have seen an apparition of a woman holding a
Speaker 1: bleeding child. Most people feel incredibly uneasy upon entering the basement,
Speaker 1: as it's the only original area of the Cornell House.
Speaker 1: Voices have been heard coming from empty rooms, shadows have
Speaker 1: been seen, and more than one person has been afraid
Speaker 1: to lock up at night while alone. So being the
Speaker 1: first place Adam and I went knocking on the door
Speaker 1: to ask to investigate, Usually people come to us. I
Speaker 1: thought it best if we have a chat with him
Speaker 1: about our investigation and thoughts on what's going on at
Speaker 1: the valley in that's coming up next. So I'm sitting
Speaker 1: here with someone I'm sure you're all familiar with, Mr
Speaker 1: Adam Barry, who is my partner in crime on Kindred Spirits,
Speaker 1: but also one of my best friends in the whole
Speaker 1: wide world. And what's interesting about the Valley In is
Speaker 1: that Adam and I asked to investigate there. This was
Speaker 1: not a case that the owners came to us. It
Speaker 1: was a place that when I moved to Equidneck Island,
Speaker 1: everywhere I went everyone asked me if I knew about
Speaker 1: the Valley In. And when you drive by it, it
Speaker 1: looks haunted. It's a big, spooky white Victorian that I
Speaker 1: wasn't even sure if it was actually opened the first
Speaker 1: time I drove by it. But it turns out it's
Speaker 1: very very open, and as I said earlier, has the
Speaker 1: best pizza in Portsmouth. So all these things are good
Speaker 1: to know. But let's chat with Adam. So hi, Adam, Hey,
Speaker 1: I'm wondering why I didn't get any of that pizza. Well,
Speaker 1: I think you were probably like low carb or something
Speaker 1: at the time. I'm not entirely sure. Yeah, ghost car
Speaker 1: too many carbs for guess I wasn't. We were very fortunate,
Speaker 1: like every night Joe and staff made us dinner and
Speaker 1: so it was really great. That's one of the times
Speaker 1: we were completely spoiled in the food Department while we
Speaker 1: were investigating. So I know you completely trusted me on
Speaker 1: this because I came to you and I was like, listen,
Speaker 1: there's this building in Portsmouth that we have to investigate.
Speaker 1: And I think I've been trying to get in there
Speaker 1: since season one and pandemics obviously suck it turns out,
Speaker 1: but it did give us the opportunity to actually get
Speaker 1: in there and investigate. And I think that Joe the
Speaker 1: owner was a lot more receptive at that time, just
Speaker 1: because it was easier to close, and I'm sure he
Speaker 1: was looking for ways to get the word out, and
Speaker 1: so it was kind of the perfect storm. So I
Speaker 1: guess it was one of the few positives that came
Speaker 1: out of this awful last year or however long this
Speaker 1: is going on. But just when you rolled up to
Speaker 1: that place, what stood out to you the most? First off,
Speaker 1: what's crazy is I had heard about the case in
Speaker 1: terms of like not from you, like I had just
Speaker 1: heard through the ether at some point in my life
Speaker 1: that somebody was convicted of murder by a ghost, right
Speaker 1: when you told me that, Because I think that was
Speaker 1: one of the first things you told me when we
Speaker 1: pulled up on that place and you said, this is
Speaker 1: that place where the person was convicted of murder from
Speaker 1: the testimony of a ghost. I immediately lost my mind
Speaker 1: because I was like, oh my god, this is the
Speaker 1: place because a it's so close to where we all
Speaker 1: live and be. On the outside, it does have an
Speaker 1: old architectural feel like it looks sort of like the
Speaker 1: Amnibal horror house from the left side, but it's a restaurant, right,
Speaker 1: like an old house with a really cool restaurant. And
Speaker 1: you would never ever ever think that this is that
Speaker 1: place where the ghost was like he killed me, you know.
Speaker 1: And so I was very excited when we got there
Speaker 1: and say the least, well, yeah, and it was, like
Speaker 1: I said before, it was kind of strange just because
Speaker 1: we didn't quite get asked there. We knocked on the
Speaker 1: door and we were like, hey, Joe, and so obviously
Speaker 1: there were paranormal claims involved, but they weren't really desperate
Speaker 1: for our help. It was kind of like this moment
Speaker 1: for us. It was this like bucket list item. It
Speaker 1: was sheer curiosity, and then we were like, if we
Speaker 1: go in there and investigate, what's going to happen? And
Speaker 1: so I think it was kind of this experiment per se.
Speaker 1: So what would you say it was like your favorite
Speaker 1: part of that investigation, the sty I'm just kidding. Should
Speaker 1: we talk about that? I didn't talk about that for
Speaker 1: anyone who watches the episode to this is where you
Speaker 1: get the behind the scenes moments. So I had a
Speaker 1: really brutals tie in my eye, and we were under
Speaker 1: a very tight timeline, and so literally that entire investigation,
Speaker 1: they were filming me from one side, and then there's
Speaker 1: moments of interviews where half of my face is obscured
Speaker 1: by shadow. Nobody else knew, and so I was watching
Speaker 1: the episode, I completely forgot about it, and I was like,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, this is that time. But like, no
Speaker 1: matter what happens to you, you always look great. And
Speaker 1: I feel like our crew has been with us so
Speaker 1: long they know how to make us look our best
Speaker 1: on our worst days. You know, it's when your eyes
Speaker 1: swollen shut. It was so disgusting. So anyway, I'm trying
Speaker 1: to lock that out of my mind, but it keeps
Speaker 1: haunting me. It comes up in Facebook memories and stuff.
Speaker 1: So more terrifying than the ghosts, I would say, But
Speaker 1: to the point, I think the most exciting thing for us, well,
Speaker 1: I think the first thing that stood out for me
Speaker 1: was the actual testimony that was said and what the
Speaker 1: ghost quote unquote actually said to him, which wasn't he
Speaker 1: killed me. I think we found out that the ghost said,
Speaker 1: look how my body is burned. Look how my body
Speaker 1: is burned. Right, The ghost did not say that person
Speaker 1: killed me. And I thought that was the most interesting
Speaker 1: and exciting things we first uncovered because for so many
Speaker 1: years everyone had thought that this ghost said he killed me,
Speaker 1: and that's why this person was put to death. But
Speaker 1: that wasn't it at all, you know, right, It was
Speaker 1: just that part of the testimony, coupled with just insane
Speaker 1: gossip in the community, is really what put Thomas Cornell
Speaker 1: to death. Obviously, the testimony of the ghost, which was
Speaker 1: included in the trial, was a big part of it.
Speaker 1: But she never said like, oh hey, my son did it.
Speaker 1: It was just like, look how I'm burned. It was
Speaker 1: just so strange because I think when you hear it
Speaker 1: in laure as it's passed down, people think that this
Speaker 1: was must have said that he murdered her, But that's
Speaker 1: not what happened at all. I thought it was interesting
Speaker 1: that we kind of assumed that because Thomas was buried
Speaker 1: under the parking lot of the restaurant that that was
Speaker 1: leading to some sort of unrest, but through our evidence
Speaker 1: and through use of like the spirit box and everything,
Speaker 1: it seemed like he was really happy not to be
Speaker 1: buried with his family. Yeah, it was like our modern
Speaker 1: day version of canceling somebody on social media, except it
Speaker 1: was through the family, and the family treated him like
Speaker 1: he did it the whole time. He was already guilty
Speaker 1: before being proven innocent. The testimony of a ghost like
Speaker 1: sealed the deal, which is the most crazy thing in
Speaker 1: the world. And so when we're sitting there communicating with him,
Speaker 1: he's like, no, I'm cool. I don't want to be
Speaker 1: buried with my family on the other side of my property.
Speaker 1: I would rather just stay right here. And you know,
Speaker 1: I guess be at peace because they were not nice,
Speaker 1: nam No, and no one had investigated there like we did.
Speaker 1: Like I don't think Joe had ever let anyone into investigate.
Speaker 1: And I remember one of the first e vps we got,
Speaker 1: we were in the room. So I explained this earlier.
Speaker 1: But basically the house is built on the direct footprint
Speaker 1: of the original home and the basement is original. The
Speaker 1: foundation is original and the chimneys are original, so it's
Speaker 1: basically completely mirrors exactly what the house looked like before.
Speaker 1: And so we were in the room that was the
Speaker 1: room with the fireplace where Rebecca Cornell was found, and
Speaker 1: we asked, was your death a murder or was it
Speaker 1: an accident? And one of the first e vps we
Speaker 1: got just very clearly said accident. Yeah. It's rare that
Speaker 1: somebody speaks to us that quickly, I think, but our
Speaker 1: intention is well known. When we walk in. We present
Speaker 1: ourselves in such a way that I feel like whoever's
Speaker 1: there is eager to communicate, and I think our excitement
Speaker 1: to get into that space they could tell. I mean,
Speaker 1: they could tell that we were very excited at the
Speaker 1: possibility of just investigating this location and kind of trying
Speaker 1: to solve this mystery. And I think when it said accident,
Speaker 1: we were like, Okay, well, who is saying accident? Though?
Speaker 1: Is it Rebecca that's saying accident or is it somebody
Speaker 1: else saying accident? And just like covering it up because
Speaker 1: you know, the word accident is definitely I mean, we asked,
Speaker 1: is it was it a murder? Was in an accident?
Speaker 1: It says, you know, someone says accident, but like what
Speaker 1: actually is that? It almost made us a little bit
Speaker 1: more confused, and we had work a bit harder to
Speaker 1: be like, Okay, well who's saying accident? Right? And now,
Speaker 1: like you said in the beginning, like one of the
Speaker 1: by products of this investigation was that we kind of
Speaker 1: clarified a little bit of a history. And not that
Speaker 1: it was hard to do, but just because it was
Speaker 1: something that had just been kind of passed down through
Speaker 1: word of mouth like that kind of historic game of
Speaker 1: telephone for so long, people they just kind of assumed
Speaker 1: that what she had said was so clearly like he
Speaker 1: murdered me. But that being said, how important do you
Speaker 1: think it is during these investigations that we and other
Speaker 1: investigators get our history correct? Oh? I think that's the
Speaker 1: most important. I mean, evidence is one thing, but getting
Speaker 1: the facts straight is the most important thing. Because if
Speaker 1: your facts aren't straight, like say you have a wrong name, right,
Speaker 1: and then you keep getting e v P s or
Speaker 1: evidence that lead not to that name because it's wrong,
Speaker 1: then your s ol pretty much because you're not doing
Speaker 1: it right. And so I think you and I tend
Speaker 1: to lean on the history because it's factual. So you
Speaker 1: might not believe in ghosts at all, but you cannot
Speaker 1: deny the factual history and the information that we have
Speaker 1: gathered for this location, right, can't deny it. It's real,
Speaker 1: it's tangible. Here it is, here's the paperwork, here's the letters,
Speaker 1: whatever it is. And I think that helps us support
Speaker 1: our theories as to why the haunting is taking place.
Speaker 1: And if you're not looking at your history, if you're
Speaker 1: not doing any history, then you aren't actually ghost tending. Okay.
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, it's like it's like it's like
Speaker 1: if you're not wearing nails, you're not doing drag. If
Speaker 1: you're not if you're not doing your history, you're not
Speaker 1: doing ghost sending. Okay, that's just what plains simple. I
Speaker 1: think that's the first time those comparisons have ever been made.
Speaker 1: Your world. You're welcome. I love it. So there are
Speaker 1: a lot of claims that came out of that building
Speaker 1: by the time we got there. You know, Joe is
Speaker 1: a very matter of fact individual. He's very New England.
Speaker 1: He's got a lot of history in that building. His
Speaker 1: father bought that building in nineteen seven directly from a
Speaker 1: descendant of the Cornell, So that was how long that
Speaker 1: building was in the family. But even so, you know,
Speaker 1: he kind of told me off the wreck here that
Speaker 1: they've been hearing kind of rumblings of things happening for decades.
Speaker 1: But his mom especially was very anti the ghost thing,
Speaker 1: and she had passed away a few years ago. So
Speaker 1: I think that's why we were able to kind of
Speaker 1: go in there and investigate. I think that was part
Speaker 1: of it. But do you remember we heard about a
Speaker 1: woman who saw a woman holding a bleeding child in
Speaker 1: a round at one point, and then we also heard
Speaker 1: of objects being moved, like there was a bottle that
Speaker 1: went flying or something. Do you remember any other claims
Speaker 1: while we were there that people spoke of. Um, I
Speaker 1: remember they didn't like going into the basement because he
Speaker 1: was very much he's a stoic, you know, he's a
Speaker 1: stoic individual. He runs a restaurant. He has a level head,
Speaker 1: and you know, he said he wasn't that nervous about
Speaker 1: the things that were happening. I guess in the restaurant
Speaker 1: per se, but he said the creepiest place was down
Speaker 1: in the basement. He was like going down there, He's
Speaker 1: like I think, he said one time he was working
Speaker 1: down there and something happened or he felt like he
Speaker 1: wasn't alone. It was just this this weird feeling he got,
Speaker 1: or he saw something in the basement and he immediately
Speaker 1: stopped working, turned and left, like just left and locked
Speaker 1: the door. And remember being down there with you. That
Speaker 1: place is a different energy completely then the upstairs. And
Speaker 1: I think when we were getting evidence on the SLS
Speaker 1: camera and somebody was standing in front of us, we
Speaker 1: got the sense that it might have known who that
Speaker 1: family was, but maybe was not connected to that family.
Speaker 1: In case people don't know. Sl S stands for a
Speaker 1: structured light sensor, and so the idea behind it is
Speaker 1: that it sends out this kind of spray of like
Speaker 1: laser points, and if it detects something that is the
Speaker 1: shape of a human, it automatically maps out that shape
Speaker 1: and you can see it in front of you. And
Speaker 1: so they were using this for like gaming technology and
Speaker 1: security systems things like that, and then the paranormal community
Speaker 1: adopted it and upon realized thing that sometimes they would
Speaker 1: aim this camera at nothing, but yet they would get
Speaker 1: some sort of human shape and it would actually respond
Speaker 1: to you, like wave at you or walk away, and
Speaker 1: so we actually got a really strong hit on that
Speaker 1: in the basement where there was definitely a figure standing
Speaker 1: there and I feel like I tried to reach out
Speaker 1: to it at one point. I can't quite remember, but yeah,
Speaker 1: and it had a visceral reaction to I think it
Speaker 1: had a visceral reaction to something that we said about
Speaker 1: the family, and it's sort of like no, like almost
Speaker 1: like don't don't bring that up, which was kind of strange.
Speaker 1: And uh, of course, you know, when you get close
Speaker 1: to something like that, odds are is not going to
Speaker 1: stick around too long. And so you definitely reached out,
Speaker 1: and it was sort of reaching out and then it
Speaker 1: was just like gone. I almost felt like just us
Speaker 1: being in that building and kind of talking about everything
Speaker 1: that had happened kind of woke it up a little bit,
Speaker 1: you know, because as it stands, like the Valian is
Speaker 1: very much a local's haying out. I think that's part
Speaker 1: of the reason why it does. It like this big
Speaker 1: old Victorian house, and if you weren't local, you probably
Speaker 1: wouldn't think to go in there, you know, but you
Speaker 1: go in like we probably eat in there, like, you know,
Speaker 1: once a month or so, and it's always bustling. It's
Speaker 1: always busy, and it's always people we know we run into,
Speaker 1: like Charlotte's teachers and stuff, But no one's ever talking
Speaker 1: about what happened there. Like there's whisperings of it being haunted,
Speaker 1: but no one's ever really talking about it. And we
Speaker 1: had that building for five days straight where all we
Speaker 1: did was talk about what happened there, And so it
Speaker 1: makes me wonder if we just kind of woke it
Speaker 1: up a little bit. I definitely think so. We tend
Speaker 1: to stir up activity based on our actions and our intentions,
Speaker 1: and I think there's something about the two of us,
Speaker 1: the way we work together, just facilitates the ease of communication.
Speaker 1: And it sounds strange, but you and I know if
Speaker 1: we walk into a space and we'd start chatting for
Speaker 1: a bit, something more than likely is going to happen.
Speaker 1: It might not be what we want to happen, but
Speaker 1: I think it's the way that we communicate. Our intention
Speaker 1: was very strong. We wanted to find the answer. We
Speaker 1: wanted to deep dive into this legend of a ghost
Speaker 1: convicting a man from murder, and it did not disappoint.
Speaker 1: By day two, totally knew while we were there, and
Speaker 1: they were more than willing to participate in this deep
Speaker 1: dive into this folklore because no one had talked about it,
Speaker 1: I'm sure for many many many years. Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1: I think we solved it in the sense that I know,
Speaker 1: we've found what we believed to be Thomas Cornell's body.
Speaker 1: Joe suspected that he was buried under the parking lot,
Speaker 1: and so we actually brought ground penetrating radar and used
Speaker 1: that to go through where we expected him to be buried,
Speaker 1: and sure enough, there was like an exact grave there.
Speaker 1: And I know our idea at the time was to
Speaker 1: erect some sort of you know, monument to him, some
Speaker 1: sort of grave stones, some sort of headstone, and we
Speaker 1: kind of fashioned this cross there for now, And I know,
Speaker 1: having been there a few times that there's been no
Speaker 1: monument put up. Joe has not mentioned that anything else
Speaker 1: has happened, but honestly, every time I've been in there,
Speaker 1: it's been pretty busy, and so I'd love to kind
Speaker 1: of pull him aside and ask him, you know, have
Speaker 1: you had any activity since we left? Did rile anything up?
Speaker 1: Like I know, a lot more stories came out of
Speaker 1: the woodwork and I'm sure more will come out once
Speaker 1: people hear this podcast, But I keep thinking, like, what
Speaker 1: do we do there. I don't know that we fixed
Speaker 1: it per se. I don't know there really anything to
Speaker 1: fix it, but I don't think we left it worse.
Speaker 1: But then I'm also thinking, you know, as time goes on,
Speaker 1: what happens when that building changes hands again, Like this
Speaker 1: is only the second family who has owned it, what
Speaker 1: happens to the next people? I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean, do you think it's a case of like
Speaker 1: if people stop talking about it, then it sort of
Speaker 1: goes back into this dormant situation. You know, if it
Speaker 1: were ever to change hands and be bought by somebody
Speaker 1: who was really into the paranormal and they buy it
Speaker 1: for the sole purpose of continuing that communication. I mean,
Speaker 1: we've seen that in other locations where people buy buildings
Speaker 1: for the purpose of investigating it and then it's sort
Speaker 1: of gets riled up again, it gets out of hand
Speaker 1: because of whatever is going on. Do you think that's
Speaker 1: more logical than us being like oops. I do think
Speaker 1: that as we've investigated, we've seen that there's just certain
Speaker 1: people who kind of bring out spirits. It's not that
Speaker 1: they're haunted or that they're psychic. You know, they're just
Speaker 1: more open to the idea or more welcoming. And so
Speaker 1: I think it just depends on whoever decides to take
Speaker 1: it on next. Like I don't think Joe is going
Speaker 1: away anytime soon. I do know that's the real estate
Speaker 1: market here right now is pretty insane, though, So who
Speaker 1: knows who could end up in that place next. It's massive,
Speaker 1: It's much more residential than the kitchen and the restaurant
Speaker 1: on the side. So when I see buildings like that,
Speaker 1: I always wonder what's going to become of them. But
Speaker 1: now you with this history coming out and with people
Speaker 1: knowing what happened there, I just wonder if that intention
Speaker 1: or that energy is going to start waking things up more. Well,
Speaker 1: think of it this way though. So we were there
Speaker 1: for that for the sole purpose of trying to solve
Speaker 1: this mystery, right Like, That's why we were there. But
Speaker 1: we also investigated the operation of the lady with the
Speaker 1: bleeding child. We reached out and we tried to figure
Speaker 1: out what that was, and we got no we wouldn't
Speaker 1: get any answers from that story or we didn't figure
Speaker 1: out what that was, And I think it's because you know,
Speaker 1: our intention and purpose at that point was to solve
Speaker 1: this mystery. They knew that they came forward. We sort
Speaker 1: of worked together, you know, the spirits and us, and
Speaker 1: the two of us worked together to sort of solve
Speaker 1: this mystery. But then you have that other thing, right,
Speaker 1: So what if that other thing Now it's like, okay,
Speaker 1: my turn. Yeah. I mean, you have over two fifty
Speaker 1: years of history in that spot, and the fact that
Speaker 1: the family just kind have buried down the hill behind
Speaker 1: this new condo development. You know, there's any number of
Speaker 1: things that could rile things up, And so every time
Speaker 1: I go in there, I'm always kind of looking out
Speaker 1: the corner of my eye wondering if I'm going to
Speaker 1: see anything, if I'm going to hear anything. I mean,
Speaker 1: I would say that anyone who's listening who's had experiences there,
Speaker 1: I would love to hear them, because I would love
Speaker 1: to kind of build a little more of a portfolio
Speaker 1: of ghostly experiences at the Valley end. So because I
Speaker 1: feel like there's a lot more. And we were talking
Speaker 1: about Joe earlier. He's just kind of so no nonsense,
Speaker 1: Like I feel like a ghost could just walk right
Speaker 1: in front of him, and he would be like, oh,
Speaker 1: I must have eaten something bad, you know. Yeah, he's
Speaker 1: too busy. Honestly, he is too busy to be focusing
Speaker 1: on ghosts. He's like, I gotta serve the real people,
Speaker 1: you know. Yes, So I think that we did the
Speaker 1: right thing. I think we clarified history, which was great. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, I remember when that episode came out. When
Speaker 1: we started talking about it, a lot of people brought
Speaker 1: up the Greenbrier Ghost, which I talked about at the
Speaker 1: top of this podcast, because that was another really famous
Speaker 1: kind of murder try involving the testimony of a ghost.
Speaker 1: But the ghost testimony wasn't used by the prosecution, so
Speaker 1: the person wasn't actually convicted based on it. So this
Speaker 1: one still remains the only case in American history where
Speaker 1: someone was convicted and ultimately executed based on the testimony
Speaker 1: of a ghost. What happens, yo, yo? What happens when
Speaker 1: we are investigating a location and what if we got accused,
Speaker 1: like falsely accused like ghost? What if it happens to us? Well,
Speaker 1: I mean I think that, you know, no matter what
Speaker 1: the ultimate outcome of that building is, I think it's
Speaker 1: got a lot more history left in it, but right now,
Speaker 1: I just love that it's this cool local hangout that
Speaker 1: serves really great food. And I would say probably of
Speaker 1: the people who walk in there have no idea what
Speaker 1: happened there, No, not at all, And maybe that's for
Speaker 1: the best, because the ghosts are at this point, I
Speaker 1: think they're satisfied with what we did, so le' not
Speaker 1: stir Well, we'll see what other ghosts might make themselves
Speaker 1: known there. So again, everyone is listening. I really want
Speaker 1: to know if you've had anything else happened at the
Speaker 1: Valley and I'll put it out there on social media
Speaker 1: and things, and we'll see if we can get some
Speaker 1: more really great ghost stories from the place. So Mr Barry,
Speaker 1: thanks for joining me. I feel like you're probably going
Speaker 1: to be on a few of these. Oh good, any
Speaker 1: time that we can do a deeper dive into any
Speaker 1: of our locations, because we've done a lot. Yeah absolutely,
Speaker 1: well cool. Well, I'll see you soon and maybe we
Speaker 1: can go to the Valley in and grab some dinner. Yeah,
Speaker 1: pizza for sure. Okay, alright, talk later. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: The paranormal and historical significance of the Valley in cannot
Speaker 1: be denied. Remember that if you're ever taking a trip
Speaker 1: or vacation to Newport, Rhode Island, take a side drive
Speaker 1: over to Port Smith and look for the large white,
Speaker 1: looming Victorian on the side of the very busy East
Speaker 1: Main Road. Think of everything that has happened in that
Speaker 1: spot over the last two d fifty and if you're
Speaker 1: brave enough, stop in for a meal and tell Joe
Speaker 1: that we said, Hi, Oh, one more bit of trivia
Speaker 1: for you. After Thomas Jr's execution, his second wife gave
Speaker 1: birth to their daughter, Innocent Cornell. Fitting name Innocent went
Speaker 1: on to marry Richard Borden and they had multiple children. Son,
Speaker 1: Thomas Borden would end up being Lizzie Borden's great great
Speaker 1: great grandfather, so Innocent Cornell Borden and Richard Borden were
Speaker 1: effectively Lizzie Borden's great great great great grandparents. I'm Amy
Speaker 1: BRUNEI and this was Haunted Road. Haunted Road is a
Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio and Grimm and Mild from
Speaker 1: Aaron Mankey. The podcast is written and hosted by Amy Bruney.
Speaker 1: Executive producers include Aaron Manky, Alex Williams, and Matt Frederick.
Speaker 1: The show is produced by rema Ill Kali and Trevor Young.
Speaker 1: Taylor Haggard corn is the show's researcher. For more podcasts
Speaker 1: from I Heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.