1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,400 Speaker 1: Welcome to Haunted Road, a production of I Heart Radio 2 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:07,840 Speaker 1: and Grim and Mild from Aaron Minky. Listener discretion is advised. 3 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:19,799 Speaker 1: In January seven, the body of Elva Zona Heister was 4 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:21,759 Speaker 1: found dead at the foot of her stairs by a 5 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 1: young boy who had been dispatched to the house on 6 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 1: an errand by her husband, Erasmus Stribbling Trout Shoe. The 7 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: boy ran for his mother, who then called the local 8 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:35,479 Speaker 1: doctor and coroner. The doctor took over an hour to arrive, 9 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 1: and by the time he did, Shoe had carried his 10 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:41,560 Speaker 1: wife's body upstairs, dressed her in a high neck dress 11 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:44,160 Speaker 1: with a stiff caller, laid her out on the bed, 12 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 1: and covered her face with a veil. When the doctor 13 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:51,560 Speaker 1: attempted to examine Elva, Shoe sobbed and cradled her head, 14 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 1: and even at one point became violent when the doctor 15 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 1: tried to take a closer look at bruises he noticed 16 00:00:57,040 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 1: about Elva's neck. At that point, the corener ended his 17 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 1: examination and left the house. Elva's death was listed as 18 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 1: everlasting faint and then was changed to childbirth four weeks later. 19 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:15,320 Speaker 1: Elva's mother, Mary Jane Heister, claimed the spirit of her 20 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:18,120 Speaker 1: daughter had appeared to her in a dream and declared 21 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 1: that her husband was cruel, had abused her, and eventually 22 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 1: murdered her by breaking her neck. To demonstrate this, the 23 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 1: ghost turned her head around until it was facing backwards. 24 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 1: Armed with this story, Mary Jane visited the local prosecutor 25 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:36,760 Speaker 1: and begged her daughter's body be exhumed. It was and 26 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:40,360 Speaker 1: was given a three day autopsy, at which they found 27 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 1: her neck was indeed broken and her windpipe smashed. Shoe 28 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 1: was arrested and charged with the murder of his wife. 29 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 1: Turns out Shoe had been married twice before. One former 30 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 1: wife left him due to abuse, the other died under 31 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 1: mysterious circumstances. During the trial, the ghost was brought up 32 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 1: one time by the defense in an attempt to prove 33 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 1: Elva's mother an unreliable and unstable witness. The prosecution, on 34 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:09,960 Speaker 1: the other hand, didn't need the ghost testimony to prove 35 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 1: Sho's guilt, So while the ghost may have instigated the investigation, 36 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:16,960 Speaker 1: it was not ultimately what led to a guilty verdict 37 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 1: and put him away for life. However, I have a 38 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 1: story to tell you that happened over two hundred years 39 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 1: before in Portsmouth, Rhode Island where just that happened, and 40 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:31,239 Speaker 1: it still stands today as the only case in American 41 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:34,520 Speaker 1: history where the testimony of a ghost led to a murder, 42 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 1: conviction and execution. I'm Amy Brunei, and this is Haunted Road. 43 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 1: Thomas Sr. And Rebecca Cornell were originally from England, where 44 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:56,240 Speaker 1: they married in sixteen twenty. Thomas was in his thirties 45 00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:59,959 Speaker 1: and Rebecca was About twenty seven years later, their child, 46 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 1: Thomas Jr. Was born. Some records have as many as 47 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 1: twenty children born to the Cornells, but for the purposes 48 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:08,519 Speaker 1: of this bit of history, let's focus on Thomas Jr. 49 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 1: The Cornell's left England for Boston, where they arrived in 50 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 1: sixteen thirty eight. They were some of Boston's very first settlers. 51 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:18,920 Speaker 1: Their tenure in Boston was cut short, though, when the 52 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 1: Massachusetts Bay Colony was divided over the Antinomian controversy, which, 53 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:27,799 Speaker 1: while incredibly complex, I'll totally oversimplify by saying, what's a 54 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 1: debate over biblical interpretation, and the Puritans, who were in 55 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 1: the minority were cast from the colony. The Cornell's in 56 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 1: particular sympathized with the more tolerant society. Roger Williams was 57 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 1: creating in Rhode Island. Thomas Senior was involved in some 58 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 1: side projects, but managed to secure one hundred acre land 59 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 1: grant in Portsmouth, Rhode Island by sixteen forty four that 60 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 1: became the Cornell Homestead. Thomas Senior died February sixteen fifty four, 61 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 1: and most likely at the family home. He was also 62 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: most likely buried at what is now called the Old 63 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 1: Cornell Cemetery. After Thomas Senior died, Rebecca put their son 64 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 1: in charge of the estate. At the time, Thomas had 65 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 1: been married to his first wife, but after her death, 66 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 1: Thomas remarried a woman named Sara. Apparently, Rebecca was not 67 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 1: a fan of Sara. Reportedly, Sara had chased one of 68 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 1: Thomas's children with his first wife with an axe, and 69 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 1: Rebecca stepped in and prevented her from striking the child. 70 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 1: If she hadn't, this would probably be a very different 71 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 1: kind of haunting. On a cold winter night in sixteen 72 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 1: seventy three, Rebecca Cornell and Thomas had an hour long 73 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 1: conversation before a dinner of salted mackerel, which Rebecca declined 74 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:39,919 Speaker 1: to eat because she said it made her dry in 75 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 1: the night. According to Thomas. That evening, Edward, his son, 76 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 1: went to Rebecca's bedroom to see if she would have 77 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 1: her evening milk. There he found some sort of fire 78 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 1: on the floor, but it was so dark he needed 79 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:54,480 Speaker 1: a candle to further illuminate the scene. Sounding the alarm, 80 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:58,160 Speaker 1: Edward ran for help. Henry Straight, a hired hand, ran 81 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:00,320 Speaker 1: into the room, followed by the boy with the handle, 82 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:03,600 Speaker 1: and then by Thomas Cornell and his wife. The hired 83 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:06,040 Speaker 1: man saw the fire and raped it out with his hands, 84 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:08,280 Speaker 1: and then, in the faint light shed by the candle, 85 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 1: saw a human body on the floor. According to rather 86 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 1: strange testimony from Thomas, he supposed it to be a 87 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 1: local Indian, so he shook the body and spoke to 88 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 1: it in an Indian language. At that moment, Thomas Cornell 89 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 1: saw the body closer and exclaimed, oh Lord, it is 90 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:30,280 Speaker 1: my mother. After a rather swift investigation, the coroner declared 91 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 1: that Rebecca's death had occurred by fire, that she had 92 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 1: most likely dropped ash on herself while smoking her pipe. 93 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:40,479 Speaker 1: But our story, of course, does not end there. Four 94 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:44,160 Speaker 1: days after Rebecca was found dead, a man named John Briggs, 95 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:46,919 Speaker 1: often referred to as her brother, but the details of 96 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 1: their relationship are debated and unclear, claimed to have been 97 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:53,680 Speaker 1: visited by the ghost of Rebecca, and according to him, 98 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 1: she declared that her death was not an accident at all, 99 00:05:56,720 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 1: that she was in fact murdered. According to records of 100 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 1: the trial, Briggs says he was awoken by movement on 101 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 1: the bed when he perceived a light in the room 102 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:08,919 Speaker 1: like the dawning of the day, and plainly saw the 103 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 1: shape and appearance of a woman standing by his bedside. 104 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:16,159 Speaker 1: Whereat he was much affrighted and cried out in the 105 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 1: name of God, what art thou. The apparition then claimed 106 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:23,599 Speaker 1: to be Rebecca Cornell. Then it said, see how I 107 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 1: was burned with fire twice the apparition did appear to 108 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:32,160 Speaker 1: be burned from the shoulders up. Briggs story inspired one 109 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 1: John Russell to come forward with revelations of his own. 110 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 1: He claimed that shortly before Rebecca's death, an old friend 111 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:41,599 Speaker 1: of his named George Soul, confided to him that on 112 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 1: a visit to the Cornell house, Rebecca told Soul that 113 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 1: she planned to move in with her other son, Samuel, 114 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 1: but feared she would be made away with Before that time, 115 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:55,360 Speaker 1: the citizens of Portsmouth became increasingly suspicious that Rebecca Cornell's 116 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 1: death was no accident. It was no secret that the 117 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:03,039 Speaker 1: Cornell household was not a happy, very unusually for colonial America. 118 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:06,599 Speaker 1: Rebecca not her forty six year old son Thomas, was 119 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 1: the head of her household. They lived in her home, 120 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 1: and she was apparently not shy about exercising her authority 121 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: and controlling the purse strings. In short, her middle aged 122 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 1: son was still dependent on his mother, and rumor had 123 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 1: it that he greatly resented this fat Briggs and Russell 124 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 1: were convincing enough for the Deputy Governor to convene a 125 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 1: new inquest, and Rebecca's body was exhumed in order for 126 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 1: a more thorough autopsy. Two surgeons from Newport were called 127 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 1: in to see if any wounds could be found on 128 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 1: the dead woman. An examination by the doctors uncovered what 129 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 1: they deemed to be a suspicious wound on her stomach. 130 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 1: Did Thomas Cornell stab his mother then use the fire 131 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 1: to cover it up? This second inquest panel now ruled 132 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 1: that Rebecca had died not only from burns, but from 133 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 1: a suspicious wound. Thomas Cornell was put under arrest and 134 00:07:56,280 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 1: a grand jury assembled. As the trial dressed gossip and 135 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 1: hearsay about the Cornell family was presented in droves. In 136 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 1: addition to Thomas being unhappy with his living situation and 137 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 1: Rebecca's a parent distaste for Thomas's second wife, Sarah, it 138 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 1: was said that Rebecca was so miserable she had suicidal 139 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 1: ideations about dying by knife or drowning. Others reiterated Rebecca's 140 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 1: plans to leave the family in the spring to live 141 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 1: with her other son, that she complained that Thomas was 142 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 1: stingy with heating the house, forced her to do farm labor, 143 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:32,960 Speaker 1: and generally didn't meet her needs. For Thomas's part, he 144 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:35,720 Speaker 1: said that his mother in her lifetime had a desire 145 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 1: to have a good fire, and further said that he 146 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:41,640 Speaker 1: thought God had answered her ends for now she had it. 147 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 1: Thomas was apparently not great at reading the room. Eventually, 148 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 1: Thomas was sentenced and found guilty, largely in part to 149 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:53,680 Speaker 1: the testimony of Briggs and his encounter with Rebecca's apparition. 150 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:58,719 Speaker 1: The actual trial record reads, whereas you Thomas Cornell, have 151 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:01,080 Speaker 1: been in this court in I did in charge for 152 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:05,839 Speaker 1: murthering your mother, Mrs Rebecca Cornell widow, and you being 153 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 1: by your peers the jerry found guilty. From thence on 154 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 1: Friday next which will be the twenty three day of 155 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 1: this instant month, May, about one of the clock, you're 156 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:18,200 Speaker 1: to be carried from the said goal to the place 157 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:20,679 Speaker 1: of the gallows, and there to be hanged by the 158 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:25,320 Speaker 1: neck until you are dead dead. Thomas denied his guilt 159 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:29,560 Speaker 1: up to the moment of his execution. Two years later, 160 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 1: his wife Sarah was charged as an accessory, as was 161 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:35,679 Speaker 1: a local native person. They were not convicted, and the 162 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 1: use of spectral evidence in criminal court hearings became a 163 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 1: point of concern in Rhode Island. A little late, i'd say, 164 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 1: the investigation into Rebecca's death still stands as the only 165 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 1: case in American history that includes spectral evidence in the 166 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:53,439 Speaker 1: conviction and execution of a killer. Today, the Valley in 167 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:56,559 Speaker 1: and restaurant stands at the very side of the Cornell Homestead. 168 00:09:56,920 --> 00:09:59,679 Speaker 1: The original home burned down in the mid eighteen hundreds, 169 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:02,319 Speaker 1: but the existing home and restaurant were built on its 170 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:06,439 Speaker 1: original foundation, basement and chimneys, and almost exactly mirrors the 171 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:09,680 Speaker 1: layout of the original home. The family cemetery is on 172 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 1: a now adjacent property that has been developed with condos, 173 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:15,240 Speaker 1: but if you know where to look, you can find 174 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:16,960 Speaker 1: a small trail at the end of one of the 175 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 1: cul de sacs that will take you to Rhode Island 176 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 1: Historical Portsmouth Cemetery thirty six, where the Cornells were all buried, 177 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:27,560 Speaker 1: but not Thomas. It was determined by the family that 178 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:30,440 Speaker 1: Thomas would be buried at the furthest point of the property, 179 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:33,679 Speaker 1: and therefore the furthest distance possible from the mother he 180 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:38,080 Speaker 1: was accused of slaying that property point. It's directly beneath 181 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 1: the parking lot of the valley In. The valley In 182 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 1: and restaurant today is run by owner Joe Ochie, whose 183 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 1: father purchased the house in nineteen fifty seven from a 184 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 1: Cornell descendant, and being a Portsmouth resident, I can vouch 185 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 1: at their pizza is the best in town and that 186 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:55,680 Speaker 1: Joe Och may be one of the most loved residents 187 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:58,800 Speaker 1: in town. I had been wanting to investigate the valley 188 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:02,079 Speaker 1: In for years. Many had asked Joe, but he declined, 189 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:04,720 Speaker 1: stating that while he had heard of many experiences people 190 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:07,360 Speaker 1: had over the years, he wasn't ready to entertain it. 191 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 1: But one week in the summer of Joe allowed Adam 192 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:14,000 Speaker 1: Burry and myself to investigate the building with our show 193 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 1: Kindred Spirits, and the results were astounding. We'll talk to 194 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:19,960 Speaker 1: Adam in a little bit about his thoughts and theories 195 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 1: on the location, but let me just give you an 196 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:24,959 Speaker 1: idea of some of the paranormal happenings reported there over 197 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:28,040 Speaker 1: the years. Items have been known to move on their own, 198 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 1: including a bottle that once flew off a shelf in 199 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:33,559 Speaker 1: front of a number of patrons. A woman once claimed 200 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:35,840 Speaker 1: to have seen an apparition of a woman holding a 201 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 1: bleeding child. Most people feel incredibly uneasy upon entering the basement, 202 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 1: as it's the only original area of the Cornell House. 203 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:47,840 Speaker 1: Voices have been heard coming from empty rooms, shadows have 204 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 1: been seen, and more than one person has been afraid 205 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 1: to lock up at night while alone. So being the 206 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:56,720 Speaker 1: first place Adam and I went knocking on the door 207 00:11:56,760 --> 00:12:00,040 Speaker 1: to ask to investigate, Usually people come to us. I 208 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 1: thought it best if we have a chat with him 209 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:04,720 Speaker 1: about our investigation and thoughts on what's going on at 210 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 1: the valley in that's coming up next. So I'm sitting 211 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 1: here with someone I'm sure you're all familiar with, Mr 212 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 1: Adam Barry, who is my partner in crime on Kindred Spirits, 213 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 1: but also one of my best friends in the whole 214 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 1: wide world. And what's interesting about the Valley In is 215 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 1: that Adam and I asked to investigate there. This was 216 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 1: not a case that the owners came to us. It 217 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 1: was a place that when I moved to Equidneck Island, 218 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:53,199 Speaker 1: everywhere I went everyone asked me if I knew about 219 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:55,440 Speaker 1: the Valley In. And when you drive by it, it 220 00:12:55,480 --> 00:13:01,439 Speaker 1: looks haunted. It's a big, spooky white Victorian that I 221 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:03,440 Speaker 1: wasn't even sure if it was actually opened the first 222 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 1: time I drove by it. But it turns out it's 223 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 1: very very open, and as I said earlier, has the 224 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 1: best pizza in Portsmouth. So all these things are good 225 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:16,319 Speaker 1: to know. But let's chat with Adam. So hi, Adam, Hey, 226 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 1: I'm wondering why I didn't get any of that pizza. Well, 227 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 1: I think you were probably like low carb or something 228 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:26,320 Speaker 1: at the time. I'm not entirely sure. Yeah, ghost car 229 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 1: too many carbs for guess I wasn't. We were very fortunate, 230 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:35,080 Speaker 1: like every night Joe and staff made us dinner and 231 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 1: so it was really great. That's one of the times 232 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 1: we were completely spoiled in the food Department while we 233 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:44,680 Speaker 1: were investigating. So I know you completely trusted me on 234 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 1: this because I came to you and I was like, listen, 235 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:51,080 Speaker 1: there's this building in Portsmouth that we have to investigate. 236 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:53,080 Speaker 1: And I think I've been trying to get in there 237 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:57,679 Speaker 1: since season one and pandemics obviously suck it turns out, 238 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:00,839 Speaker 1: but it did give us the opportunity to actually get 239 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 1: in there and investigate. And I think that Joe the 240 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 1: owner was a lot more receptive at that time, just 241 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:08,679 Speaker 1: because it was easier to close, and I'm sure he 242 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:10,560 Speaker 1: was looking for ways to get the word out, and 243 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:13,079 Speaker 1: so it was kind of the perfect storm. So I 244 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:15,079 Speaker 1: guess it was one of the few positives that came 245 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:17,679 Speaker 1: out of this awful last year or however long this 246 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 1: is going on. But just when you rolled up to 247 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 1: that place, what stood out to you the most? First off, 248 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 1: what's crazy is I had heard about the case in 249 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 1: terms of like not from you, like I had just 250 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 1: heard through the ether at some point in my life 251 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 1: that somebody was convicted of murder by a ghost, right 252 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 1: when you told me that, Because I think that was 253 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:40,760 Speaker 1: one of the first things you told me when we 254 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 1: pulled up on that place and you said, this is 255 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 1: that place where the person was convicted of murder from 256 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:51,000 Speaker 1: the testimony of a ghost. I immediately lost my mind 257 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 1: because I was like, oh my god, this is the 258 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 1: place because a it's so close to where we all 259 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 1: live and be. On the outside, it does have an 260 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:01,680 Speaker 1: old architectural feel like it looks sort of like the 261 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 1: Amnibal horror house from the left side, but it's a restaurant, right, 262 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 1: like an old house with a really cool restaurant. And 263 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 1: you would never ever ever think that this is that 264 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 1: place where the ghost was like he killed me, you know. 265 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 1: And so I was very excited when we got there 266 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 1: and say the least, well, yeah, and it was, like 267 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:22,480 Speaker 1: I said before, it was kind of strange just because 268 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 1: we didn't quite get asked there. We knocked on the 269 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 1: door and we were like, hey, Joe, and so obviously 270 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 1: there were paranormal claims involved, but they weren't really desperate 271 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 1: for our help. It was kind of like this moment 272 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 1: for us. It was this like bucket list item. It 273 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 1: was sheer curiosity, and then we were like, if we 274 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 1: go in there and investigate, what's going to happen? And 275 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 1: so I think it was kind of this experiment per se. 276 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 1: So what would you say it was like your favorite 277 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 1: part of that investigation, the sty I'm just kidding. Should 278 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:58,720 Speaker 1: we talk about that? I didn't talk about that for 279 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:02,680 Speaker 1: anyone who watches the episode to this is where you 280 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 1: get the behind the scenes moments. So I had a 281 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 1: really brutals tie in my eye, and we were under 282 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 1: a very tight timeline, and so literally that entire investigation, 283 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 1: they were filming me from one side, and then there's 284 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 1: moments of interviews where half of my face is obscured 285 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 1: by shadow. Nobody else knew, and so I was watching 286 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 1: the episode, I completely forgot about it, and I was like, 287 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, this is that time. But like, no 288 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 1: matter what happens to you, you always look great. And 289 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 1: I feel like our crew has been with us so 290 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 1: long they know how to make us look our best 291 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 1: on our worst days. You know, it's when your eyes 292 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 1: swollen shut. It was so disgusting. So anyway, I'm trying 293 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 1: to lock that out of my mind, but it keeps 294 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 1: haunting me. It comes up in Facebook memories and stuff. 295 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:52,040 Speaker 1: So more terrifying than the ghosts, I would say, But 296 00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 1: to the point, I think the most exciting thing for us, well, 297 00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 1: I think the first thing that stood out for me 298 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 1: was the actual testimony that was said and what the 299 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:09,040 Speaker 1: ghost quote unquote actually said to him, which wasn't he 300 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:12,439 Speaker 1: killed me. I think we found out that the ghost said, 301 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:15,280 Speaker 1: look how my body is burned. Look how my body 302 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 1: is burned. Right, The ghost did not say that person 303 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 1: killed me. And I thought that was the most interesting 304 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:25,200 Speaker 1: and exciting things we first uncovered because for so many 305 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 1: years everyone had thought that this ghost said he killed me, 306 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:33,119 Speaker 1: and that's why this person was put to death. But 307 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:35,399 Speaker 1: that wasn't it at all, you know, right, It was 308 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:40,160 Speaker 1: just that part of the testimony, coupled with just insane 309 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:43,520 Speaker 1: gossip in the community, is really what put Thomas Cornell 310 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:46,480 Speaker 1: to death. Obviously, the testimony of the ghost, which was 311 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 1: included in the trial, was a big part of it. 312 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:52,400 Speaker 1: But she never said like, oh hey, my son did it. 313 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 1: It was just like, look how I'm burned. It was 314 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 1: just so strange because I think when you hear it 315 00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 1: in laure as it's passed down, people think that this 316 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 1: was must have said that he murdered her, But that's 317 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:05,159 Speaker 1: not what happened at all. I thought it was interesting 318 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:09,640 Speaker 1: that we kind of assumed that because Thomas was buried 319 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:13,399 Speaker 1: under the parking lot of the restaurant that that was 320 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:16,920 Speaker 1: leading to some sort of unrest, but through our evidence 321 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:19,399 Speaker 1: and through use of like the spirit box and everything, 322 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 1: it seemed like he was really happy not to be 323 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 1: buried with his family. Yeah, it was like our modern 324 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 1: day version of canceling somebody on social media, except it 325 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:32,040 Speaker 1: was through the family, and the family treated him like 326 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:35,680 Speaker 1: he did it the whole time. He was already guilty 327 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:40,359 Speaker 1: before being proven innocent. The testimony of a ghost like 328 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:43,199 Speaker 1: sealed the deal, which is the most crazy thing in 329 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:46,680 Speaker 1: the world. And so when we're sitting there communicating with him, 330 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 1: he's like, no, I'm cool. I don't want to be 331 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:53,000 Speaker 1: buried with my family on the other side of my property. 332 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 1: I would rather just stay right here. And you know, 333 00:18:57,040 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 1: I guess be at peace because they were not nice, 334 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 1: nam No, and no one had investigated there like we did. 335 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:07,640 Speaker 1: Like I don't think Joe had ever let anyone into investigate. 336 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:10,679 Speaker 1: And I remember one of the first e vps we got, 337 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 1: we were in the room. So I explained this earlier. 338 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 1: But basically the house is built on the direct footprint 339 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 1: of the original home and the basement is original. The 340 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:24,120 Speaker 1: foundation is original and the chimneys are original, so it's 341 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 1: basically completely mirrors exactly what the house looked like before. 342 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:30,000 Speaker 1: And so we were in the room that was the 343 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:34,200 Speaker 1: room with the fireplace where Rebecca Cornell was found, and 344 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:36,879 Speaker 1: we asked, was your death a murder or was it 345 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:39,600 Speaker 1: an accident? And one of the first e vps we 346 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 1: got just very clearly said accident. Yeah. It's rare that 347 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:50,640 Speaker 1: somebody speaks to us that quickly, I think, but our 348 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 1: intention is well known. When we walk in. We present 349 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 1: ourselves in such a way that I feel like whoever's 350 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 1: there is eager to communicate, and I think our excitement 351 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 1: to get into that space they could tell. I mean, 352 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 1: they could tell that we were very excited at the 353 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 1: possibility of just investigating this location and kind of trying 354 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 1: to solve this mystery. And I think when it said accident, 355 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 1: we were like, Okay, well, who is saying accident? Though? 356 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 1: Is it Rebecca that's saying accident or is it somebody 357 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:25,440 Speaker 1: else saying accident? And just like covering it up because 358 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:29,040 Speaker 1: you know, the word accident is definitely I mean, we asked, 359 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:31,199 Speaker 1: is it was it a murder? Was in an accident? 360 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:34,080 Speaker 1: It says, you know, someone says accident, but like what 361 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:36,879 Speaker 1: actually is that? It almost made us a little bit 362 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:39,800 Speaker 1: more confused, and we had work a bit harder to 363 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 1: be like, Okay, well who's saying accident? Right? And now, 364 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:45,119 Speaker 1: like you said in the beginning, like one of the 365 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:48,440 Speaker 1: by products of this investigation was that we kind of 366 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 1: clarified a little bit of a history. And not that 367 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:53,639 Speaker 1: it was hard to do, but just because it was 368 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 1: something that had just been kind of passed down through 369 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:58,359 Speaker 1: word of mouth like that kind of historic game of 370 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: telephone for so long, people they just kind of assumed 371 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:05,119 Speaker 1: that what she had said was so clearly like he 372 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:08,439 Speaker 1: murdered me. But that being said, how important do you 373 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 1: think it is during these investigations that we and other 374 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:16,760 Speaker 1: investigators get our history correct? Oh? I think that's the 375 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:21,520 Speaker 1: most important. I mean, evidence is one thing, but getting 376 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:26,560 Speaker 1: the facts straight is the most important thing. Because if 377 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:30,200 Speaker 1: your facts aren't straight, like say you have a wrong name, right, 378 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 1: and then you keep getting e v P s or 379 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:37,440 Speaker 1: evidence that lead not to that name because it's wrong, 380 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:41,520 Speaker 1: then your s ol pretty much because you're not doing 381 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,399 Speaker 1: it right. And so I think you and I tend 382 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:47,240 Speaker 1: to lean on the history because it's factual. So you 383 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:49,919 Speaker 1: might not believe in ghosts at all, but you cannot 384 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:53,439 Speaker 1: deny the factual history and the information that we have 385 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:56,480 Speaker 1: gathered for this location, right, can't deny it. It's real, 386 00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:59,919 Speaker 1: it's tangible. Here it is, here's the paperwork, here's the letters, 387 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:03,440 Speaker 1: whatever it is. And I think that helps us support 388 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:06,399 Speaker 1: our theories as to why the haunting is taking place. 389 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:08,760 Speaker 1: And if you're not looking at your history, if you're 390 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 1: not doing any history, then you aren't actually ghost tending. Okay. 391 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:16,240 Speaker 1: It's like, you know, it's like it's like it's like 392 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 1: if you're not wearing nails, you're not doing drag. If 393 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:22,879 Speaker 1: you're not if you're not doing your history, you're not 394 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:26,359 Speaker 1: doing ghost sending. Okay, that's just what plains simple. I 395 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:30,119 Speaker 1: think that's the first time those comparisons have ever been made. 396 00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:38,040 Speaker 1: Your world. You're welcome. I love it. So there are 397 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:40,320 Speaker 1: a lot of claims that came out of that building 398 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 1: by the time we got there. You know, Joe is 399 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:45,760 Speaker 1: a very matter of fact individual. He's very New England. 400 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:48,199 Speaker 1: He's got a lot of history in that building. His 401 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 1: father bought that building in nineteen seven directly from a 402 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:55,400 Speaker 1: descendant of the Cornell, So that was how long that 403 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:58,679 Speaker 1: building was in the family. But even so, you know, 404 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 1: he kind of told me off the wreck here that 405 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 1: they've been hearing kind of rumblings of things happening for decades. 406 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 1: But his mom especially was very anti the ghost thing, 407 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:09,879 Speaker 1: and she had passed away a few years ago. So 408 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 1: I think that's why we were able to kind of 409 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:13,360 Speaker 1: go in there and investigate. I think that was part 410 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:17,000 Speaker 1: of it. But do you remember we heard about a 411 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 1: woman who saw a woman holding a bleeding child in 412 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:24,480 Speaker 1: a round at one point, and then we also heard 413 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 1: of objects being moved, like there was a bottle that 414 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,360 Speaker 1: went flying or something. Do you remember any other claims 415 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:34,800 Speaker 1: while we were there that people spoke of. Um, I 416 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 1: remember they didn't like going into the basement because he 417 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 1: was very much he's a stoic, you know, he's a 418 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:44,080 Speaker 1: stoic individual. He runs a restaurant. He has a level head, 419 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,840 Speaker 1: and you know, he said he wasn't that nervous about 420 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:50,680 Speaker 1: the things that were happening. I guess in the restaurant 421 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:53,440 Speaker 1: per se, but he said the creepiest place was down 422 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:55,640 Speaker 1: in the basement. He was like going down there, He's 423 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:57,399 Speaker 1: like I think, he said one time he was working 424 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 1: down there and something happened or he felt like he 425 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:03,879 Speaker 1: wasn't alone. It was just this this weird feeling he got, 426 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:08,880 Speaker 1: or he saw something in the basement and he immediately 427 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:13,320 Speaker 1: stopped working, turned and left, like just left and locked 428 00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:16,560 Speaker 1: the door. And remember being down there with you. That 429 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,919 Speaker 1: place is a different energy completely then the upstairs. And 430 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 1: I think when we were getting evidence on the SLS 431 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:26,840 Speaker 1: camera and somebody was standing in front of us, we 432 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 1: got the sense that it might have known who that 433 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:33,879 Speaker 1: family was, but maybe was not connected to that family. 434 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:36,520 Speaker 1: In case people don't know. Sl S stands for a 435 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 1: structured light sensor, and so the idea behind it is 436 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 1: that it sends out this kind of spray of like 437 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:46,040 Speaker 1: laser points, and if it detects something that is the 438 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:49,119 Speaker 1: shape of a human, it automatically maps out that shape 439 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:50,639 Speaker 1: and you can see it in front of you. And 440 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 1: so they were using this for like gaming technology and 441 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:57,600 Speaker 1: security systems things like that, and then the paranormal community 442 00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:01,480 Speaker 1: adopted it and upon realized thing that sometimes they would 443 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 1: aim this camera at nothing, but yet they would get 444 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 1: some sort of human shape and it would actually respond 445 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:11,479 Speaker 1: to you, like wave at you or walk away, and 446 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:14,120 Speaker 1: so we actually got a really strong hit on that 447 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 1: in the basement where there was definitely a figure standing 448 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 1: there and I feel like I tried to reach out 449 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,359 Speaker 1: to it at one point. I can't quite remember, but yeah, 450 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:27,359 Speaker 1: and it had a visceral reaction to I think it 451 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:30,200 Speaker 1: had a visceral reaction to something that we said about 452 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 1: the family, and it's sort of like no, like almost 453 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:36,240 Speaker 1: like don't don't bring that up, which was kind of strange. 454 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:40,000 Speaker 1: And uh, of course, you know, when you get close 455 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 1: to something like that, odds are is not going to 456 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:44,920 Speaker 1: stick around too long. And so you definitely reached out, 457 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 1: and it was sort of reaching out and then it 458 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 1: was just like gone. I almost felt like just us 459 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:52,080 Speaker 1: being in that building and kind of talking about everything 460 00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 1: that had happened kind of woke it up a little bit, 461 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:58,359 Speaker 1: you know, because as it stands, like the Valian is 462 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:01,480 Speaker 1: very much a local's haying out. I think that's part 463 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:03,400 Speaker 1: of the reason why it does. It like this big 464 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:06,400 Speaker 1: old Victorian house, and if you weren't local, you probably 465 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 1: wouldn't think to go in there, you know, but you 466 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,320 Speaker 1: go in like we probably eat in there, like, you know, 467 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 1: once a month or so, and it's always bustling. It's 468 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 1: always busy, and it's always people we know we run into, 469 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:20,359 Speaker 1: like Charlotte's teachers and stuff, But no one's ever talking 470 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 1: about what happened there. Like there's whisperings of it being haunted, 471 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:26,159 Speaker 1: but no one's ever really talking about it. And we 472 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,760 Speaker 1: had that building for five days straight where all we 473 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,080 Speaker 1: did was talk about what happened there, And so it 474 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:33,639 Speaker 1: makes me wonder if we just kind of woke it 475 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:37,679 Speaker 1: up a little bit. I definitely think so. We tend 476 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:42,760 Speaker 1: to stir up activity based on our actions and our intentions, 477 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 1: and I think there's something about the two of us, 478 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,679 Speaker 1: the way we work together, just facilitates the ease of communication. 479 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,840 Speaker 1: And it sounds strange, but you and I know if 480 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:53,840 Speaker 1: we walk into a space and we'd start chatting for 481 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:57,960 Speaker 1: a bit, something more than likely is going to happen. 482 00:26:58,040 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 1: It might not be what we want to happen, but 483 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 1: I think it's the way that we communicate. Our intention 484 00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:06,639 Speaker 1: was very strong. We wanted to find the answer. We 485 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,720 Speaker 1: wanted to deep dive into this legend of a ghost 486 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:15,679 Speaker 1: convicting a man from murder, and it did not disappoint. 487 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,359 Speaker 1: By day two, totally knew while we were there, and 488 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:24,240 Speaker 1: they were more than willing to participate in this deep 489 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:27,520 Speaker 1: dive into this folklore because no one had talked about it, 490 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 1: I'm sure for many many many years. Yeah, I agree. 491 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:33,919 Speaker 1: I think we solved it in the sense that I know, 492 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,720 Speaker 1: we've found what we believed to be Thomas Cornell's body. 493 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 1: Joe suspected that he was buried under the parking lot, 494 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:46,639 Speaker 1: and so we actually brought ground penetrating radar and used 495 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 1: that to go through where we expected him to be buried, 496 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,720 Speaker 1: and sure enough, there was like an exact grave there. 497 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,439 Speaker 1: And I know our idea at the time was to 498 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,239 Speaker 1: erect some sort of you know, monument to him, some 499 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:03,199 Speaker 1: sort of grave stones, some sort of headstone, and we 500 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:05,959 Speaker 1: kind of fashioned this cross there for now, And I know, 501 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:08,399 Speaker 1: having been there a few times that there's been no 502 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 1: monument put up. Joe has not mentioned that anything else 503 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 1: has happened, but honestly, every time I've been in there, 504 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:16,880 Speaker 1: it's been pretty busy, and so I'd love to kind 505 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:19,520 Speaker 1: of pull him aside and ask him, you know, have 506 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:23,959 Speaker 1: you had any activity since we left? Did rile anything up? 507 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,240 Speaker 1: Like I know, a lot more stories came out of 508 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:28,160 Speaker 1: the woodwork and I'm sure more will come out once 509 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,239 Speaker 1: people hear this podcast, But I keep thinking, like, what 510 00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:33,240 Speaker 1: do we do there. I don't know that we fixed 511 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:35,439 Speaker 1: it per se. I don't know there really anything to 512 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:37,160 Speaker 1: fix it, but I don't think we left it worse. 513 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,120 Speaker 1: But then I'm also thinking, you know, as time goes on, 514 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,360 Speaker 1: what happens when that building changes hands again, Like this 515 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:45,640 Speaker 1: is only the second family who has owned it, what 516 00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 1: happens to the next people? I mean, I don't know. 517 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 1: I mean, do you think it's a case of like 518 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,239 Speaker 1: if people stop talking about it, then it sort of 519 00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:59,240 Speaker 1: goes back into this dormant situation. You know, if it 520 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:01,760 Speaker 1: were ever to change hands and be bought by somebody 521 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,040 Speaker 1: who was really into the paranormal and they buy it 522 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:08,240 Speaker 1: for the sole purpose of continuing that communication. I mean, 523 00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:11,200 Speaker 1: we've seen that in other locations where people buy buildings 524 00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:13,840 Speaker 1: for the purpose of investigating it and then it's sort 525 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:16,720 Speaker 1: of gets riled up again, it gets out of hand 526 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,600 Speaker 1: because of whatever is going on. Do you think that's 527 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 1: more logical than us being like oops. I do think 528 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:28,560 Speaker 1: that as we've investigated, we've seen that there's just certain 529 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,760 Speaker 1: people who kind of bring out spirits. It's not that 530 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:34,480 Speaker 1: they're haunted or that they're psychic. You know, they're just 531 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 1: more open to the idea or more welcoming. And so 532 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,840 Speaker 1: I think it just depends on whoever decides to take 533 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 1: it on next. Like I don't think Joe is going 534 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,960 Speaker 1: away anytime soon. I do know that's the real estate 535 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,880 Speaker 1: market here right now is pretty insane, though, So who 536 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:51,240 Speaker 1: knows who could end up in that place next. It's massive, 537 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:55,280 Speaker 1: It's much more residential than the kitchen and the restaurant 538 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:57,440 Speaker 1: on the side. So when I see buildings like that, 539 00:29:57,480 --> 00:29:59,440 Speaker 1: I always wonder what's going to become of them. But 540 00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 1: now you with this history coming out and with people 541 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:04,800 Speaker 1: knowing what happened there, I just wonder if that intention 542 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:08,080 Speaker 1: or that energy is going to start waking things up more. Well, 543 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:11,040 Speaker 1: think of it this way though. So we were there 544 00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:13,680 Speaker 1: for that for the sole purpose of trying to solve 545 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:16,640 Speaker 1: this mystery, right Like, That's why we were there. But 546 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:20,120 Speaker 1: we also investigated the operation of the lady with the 547 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:24,240 Speaker 1: bleeding child. We reached out and we tried to figure 548 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,320 Speaker 1: out what that was, and we got no we wouldn't 549 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,280 Speaker 1: get any answers from that story or we didn't figure 550 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 1: out what that was, And I think it's because you know, 551 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,520 Speaker 1: our intention and purpose at that point was to solve 552 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:40,720 Speaker 1: this mystery. They knew that they came forward. We sort 553 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:43,600 Speaker 1: of worked together, you know, the spirits and us, and 554 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,480 Speaker 1: the two of us worked together to sort of solve 555 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 1: this mystery. But then you have that other thing, right, 556 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 1: So what if that other thing Now it's like, okay, 557 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:56,040 Speaker 1: my turn. Yeah. I mean, you have over two fifty 558 00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:59,080 Speaker 1: years of history in that spot, and the fact that 559 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:02,240 Speaker 1: the family just kind have buried down the hill behind 560 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:05,520 Speaker 1: this new condo development. You know, there's any number of 561 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:08,440 Speaker 1: things that could rile things up, And so every time 562 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 1: I go in there, I'm always kind of looking out 563 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:12,680 Speaker 1: the corner of my eye wondering if I'm going to 564 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:15,360 Speaker 1: see anything, if I'm going to hear anything. I mean, 565 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:18,080 Speaker 1: I would say that anyone who's listening who's had experiences there, 566 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:20,840 Speaker 1: I would love to hear them, because I would love 567 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,560 Speaker 1: to kind of build a little more of a portfolio 568 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:27,960 Speaker 1: of ghostly experiences at the Valley end. So because I 569 00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:30,280 Speaker 1: feel like there's a lot more. And we were talking 570 00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:32,640 Speaker 1: about Joe earlier. He's just kind of so no nonsense, 571 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:34,200 Speaker 1: Like I feel like a ghost could just walk right 572 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:35,600 Speaker 1: in front of him, and he would be like, oh, 573 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:39,400 Speaker 1: I must have eaten something bad, you know. Yeah, he's 574 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:42,120 Speaker 1: too busy. Honestly, he is too busy to be focusing 575 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:44,120 Speaker 1: on ghosts. He's like, I gotta serve the real people, 576 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 1: you know. Yes, So I think that we did the 577 00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:49,440 Speaker 1: right thing. I think we clarified history, which was great. Um. 578 00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:51,280 Speaker 1: You know, I remember when that episode came out. When 579 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:53,560 Speaker 1: we started talking about it, a lot of people brought 580 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:56,200 Speaker 1: up the Greenbrier Ghost, which I talked about at the 581 00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 1: top of this podcast, because that was another really famous 582 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,240 Speaker 1: kind of murder try involving the testimony of a ghost. 583 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:07,000 Speaker 1: But the ghost testimony wasn't used by the prosecution, so 584 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:10,320 Speaker 1: the person wasn't actually convicted based on it. So this 585 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:13,760 Speaker 1: one still remains the only case in American history where 586 00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:17,760 Speaker 1: someone was convicted and ultimately executed based on the testimony 587 00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:22,000 Speaker 1: of a ghost. What happens, yo, yo? What happens when 588 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 1: we are investigating a location and what if we got accused, 589 00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:31,960 Speaker 1: like falsely accused like ghost? What if it happens to us? Well, 590 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:34,080 Speaker 1: I mean I think that, you know, no matter what 591 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 1: the ultimate outcome of that building is, I think it's 592 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:38,680 Speaker 1: got a lot more history left in it, but right now, 593 00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:43,240 Speaker 1: I just love that it's this cool local hangout that 594 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:47,280 Speaker 1: serves really great food. And I would say probably of 595 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:49,520 Speaker 1: the people who walk in there have no idea what 596 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 1: happened there, No, not at all, And maybe that's for 597 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:56,880 Speaker 1: the best, because the ghosts are at this point, I 598 00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:00,240 Speaker 1: think they're satisfied with what we did, so le' not 599 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:03,800 Speaker 1: stir Well, we'll see what other ghosts might make themselves 600 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:07,680 Speaker 1: known there. So again, everyone is listening. I really want 601 00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 1: to know if you've had anything else happened at the 602 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:12,240 Speaker 1: Valley and I'll put it out there on social media 603 00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:13,600 Speaker 1: and things, and we'll see if we can get some 604 00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,920 Speaker 1: more really great ghost stories from the place. So Mr Barry, 605 00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,080 Speaker 1: thanks for joining me. I feel like you're probably going 606 00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:22,280 Speaker 1: to be on a few of these. Oh good, any 607 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:24,840 Speaker 1: time that we can do a deeper dive into any 608 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:28,120 Speaker 1: of our locations, because we've done a lot. Yeah absolutely, 609 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:29,880 Speaker 1: well cool. Well, I'll see you soon and maybe we 610 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:32,520 Speaker 1: can go to the Valley in and grab some dinner. Yeah, 611 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,920 Speaker 1: pizza for sure. Okay, alright, talk later. Thank you so much. 612 00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:43,479 Speaker 1: The paranormal and historical significance of the Valley in cannot 613 00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:46,600 Speaker 1: be denied. Remember that if you're ever taking a trip 614 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,920 Speaker 1: or vacation to Newport, Rhode Island, take a side drive 615 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,480 Speaker 1: over to Port Smith and look for the large white, 616 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,320 Speaker 1: looming Victorian on the side of the very busy East 617 00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:58,040 Speaker 1: Main Road. Think of everything that has happened in that 618 00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:00,880 Speaker 1: spot over the last two d fifty and if you're 619 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:03,840 Speaker 1: brave enough, stop in for a meal and tell Joe 620 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:07,000 Speaker 1: that we said, Hi, Oh, one more bit of trivia 621 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:11,040 Speaker 1: for you. After Thomas Jr's execution, his second wife gave 622 00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:15,399 Speaker 1: birth to their daughter, Innocent Cornell. Fitting name Innocent went 623 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:19,600 Speaker 1: on to marry Richard Borden and they had multiple children. Son, 624 00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:23,160 Speaker 1: Thomas Borden would end up being Lizzie Borden's great great 625 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:28,279 Speaker 1: great grandfather, so Innocent Cornell Borden and Richard Borden were 626 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:33,759 Speaker 1: effectively Lizzie Borden's great great great great grandparents. I'm Amy 627 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:42,319 Speaker 1: BRUNEI and this was Haunted Road. Haunted Road is a 628 00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,080 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio and Grimm and Mild from 629 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:49,360 Speaker 1: Aaron Mankey. The podcast is written and hosted by Amy Bruney. 630 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:54,680 Speaker 1: Executive producers include Aaron Manky, Alex Williams, and Matt Frederick. 631 00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:58,560 Speaker 1: The show is produced by rema Ill Kali and Trevor Young. 632 00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:03,360 Speaker 1: Taylor Haggard corn is the show's researcher. For more podcasts 633 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,080 Speaker 1: from I Heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, 634 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:09,239 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.